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http:// --> Ashland, Oregon HOME Valley & State Sports Nation & World Opinion/Editorial Classifieds Business Columnists Local Issues Obituaries Weather Archive Revels Etcetera Backpage Hot Topics Most Viewed Forum Photo Galleries Video Readers Polls O-Zone Online Games Movie Preview Special Sections Real Estate Guide Menu Guide Shakespeare Subscribe Contact Us Rate Card Place an Ad Hottest Galleries: October 19, 2007 Hardesty sets the record straight Letter Submissions Letters should be e-mailed in text-only format to [email protected] . Please include your address and a daytime phone number where you can be reached for confirmation. Letters are limited to 250 words. At Length submissions are limited to 400 words. Submissions may be edited for length, content and clarity. The Tidings gives priority to letters on local and regional topics of current interest. It seeks to encourage thoughtful, well-reasoned leters and to discourage personal attacks, repetitive messages and personal disputes. Form letters are not published in the Tidings, nor are letters identified as having been published in other publications. I've grown accustomed to the Tidings' consistently negative spin about the Ashland City Council. However, last week's hatchet job alleging the "dysfunction" of Ashland city government hit a new low. Although I don't usually respond to these kinds of attacks, I was compelled to this time because I feel that my reputation, at least for those who don't know me, has been damaged. There isn't time or space here to list all the ways reality was distorted in Mike Green's Oct. 10 article (Ashland's 'dysfunctional' council), so I'll concentrate on one area. Most offensive for me were the outright lies printed about an alleged "shadow government" in Ashland, supposedly involving myself and my late husband. I was stunned to read the claim that every Sunday, a mysterious group of development-hating citizens would meet and give directions to certain city councilors to go forward and "overwhelm" the city staff — and for some reason Juli Di Chiro as well — on Monday mornings. This cabal supposedly involved myself, my late husband Jack, Eric Navickas and Cate Hartzell. This clearly is the product of someone's overheated imagination, and it would be funny if it weren't so offensive. After racking my brain to figure out how such a thing could get started, I concluded that the Tidings may have been referring to a short-lived book and conversation group that Jack and I started in 2005. The participants, who met only a few times, included no sitting councilors besides Jack. Cate Hartzell never came — she was too busy. Eric Navickas, who was not yet on the council, came twice. The Tidings' favorite bogeymen, Art Bullock and Philip Lang, were not involved. We shared photos of our vacations, discussed architecture and "New Urbanism," and talked about whether Ashland's downtown could be friendlier to pedestrians and have sidewalk cafés. No one issued orders to anyone else, and would have been laughed out of the room if they had tried. City staff was never mentioned. Tea was served and sometimes cookies. The main thing we agreed upon was that it would be wonderful if the Ashland Grower's Market could somehow be moved downtown, but this never came to pass. The group dissolved well before my husband's death in May 2006. I trust this information will set the record straight. Alice Hardesty Ashland City Councilor Current Comments: Alice, dear, please hold on while I hunt for my violin to play somber music to accompany your sad, sad story. Yeah, right! - Ashland - October 19th, 1:40 PM Alice, you still manage to come across hostile and rather nasty, just like your quotes in the Tidings articles. I would have been very surprised if you had admitted any wrong doing. Facts are that the City Council members do bully both department heads and city staff, as I note you reserved the "right" to do in one of the Tidings articles and you are part of the Hartzell-Navickas alignment and include many of the others mentioned in your list of "friends." Book Club, Cookies & Tea? Yeah, right. Former City Staff - Ashland - October 19th, 2:32 PM You need to practice the smoke and mirror act a little harder, Alice. Everyone's flinging rumors and innuendos, but the facts are clear and damnning: The Council is dysfunctional and needs $37K of counseling; Several of you have bullied Dept Heads into quitting at enormous taxpayer cost; You whine about all the work you're creating because you're second-guessing staff, and you refuse to exhibit the slightest bit of remorse over any of it!!! When will you stop talking and start listening? Who's offended? - Ashland, OR - October 19th, 2:53 PM "Doth protest too much Alice." Bill Shakespear - Ashland - October 19th, 4:13 PM Alice, you are hyper defensive because you have done a poor job as a councilor, have shown zero leadership and are now being called out for it. Either do better or step down and move on with your life. Simply telling everyone to shut up and not address the issues will not make the problem go away. It only makes you appear even more removed from the masses. Ashland Liberal - Ashland - October 19th, 4:15 PM Why don't you negative commentators have the courage to post your names with your comments. You hide anonymously. I see no hostility in Ms. Hardesty's letter. The Daily Tidings would do well to shift it's right leaning course back to the Left where the vast majority of Ashlanders live. The recent negative articles about high school kids, and the city govt. , and politics in general have me about to cancel my subscription. Bryan Sohl - Ashland - October 19th, 7:11 PM Bryan, You are kidding right? ADT is "right leaning" just because they dont follow the Green Mafia in lock step? Get used to it. We hammer the neo-cons when they step out of line, the same goes for this power hungry group that performs poorly and has no apologies for it. Ashland Liberal - a - October 19th, 8:28 PM OK, Mike Green and ADT, you've been called out! Alice says, in effect, that you've falsely accused her. Time to reveal more about these meetings. Perhaps Alice would be willing to give you a complete record of all conversations she's had, with notes, her phone records and correspondence. Ditto the others involved. (I'm sure Cate would help you formulate the request, and organize the paperwork. She likes that sort of thing.) Isn't investigative journalism fun when they turn and snarl? Corvus - ashland, OR - October 19th, 9:17 PM Alice Hardesty has given years of service to this town. Mike Green is a hack journalist with a petty agenda. newswatch - Ashland, OR - October 19th, 9:20 PM Funny, it seems her "late husband" is the one who has done so much for the community. Alice just seems to invoke his name whenever she needs a break.....she still doesnt get it. She only wants people to shut up. newswatchwatcher - Ashland - October 19th, 10:48 PM Alice, Mike quotes Cathy Shaw on the Sunday meetings. Are you taking her to task? Of course her claim was hearsay she got "according to very reliable people I talked to about it." Mike, did you ask who these "reliable people" might be and do some follow-up? More likely you just stopped there as it fit your desired spin. Dane Coefer - Ashland, Oregon - October 20th, 8:42 AM Eric Navickas in a book club having tea & cookies with Alice. Now that's a laugh. Your reputation was damaged as soon as you opened your mouth Alice, you must think Ashland is a ship of fools to launch that story. Love Boat - Ashland - October 20th, 11:19 AM It's too bad we don't know who these sociopaths are who chime in on this blog; they make even Chapman's behavior seem civil. Who needs a Therapist? The irony of it all; Chapman, Jackson, and Silbiger had secret meetings to push forward their agenda on Mt. Ashland while Cate Hartzel was out of a meeting. It's like the thief who steals from the register and then acuses everyone else of stealing to cover themself. A real story - who attends Rotary meetings? Shadow Gov't is well established. Sanity - Ashland - October 20th, 11:31 AM Alice lets Really set the record straight. The Ashland council IS Dysfunctional, to the point of national news. I have a great respect for your late husband, but you're no Jack Hardesty. You, Ms. Hartzell and Mr. Navickas are just plain idiots. xman - Ashland - October 20th, 12:13 PM The comments on this site have reached a pathetic low. I don't want to go to the Tidings Site to read an article to have to see this trash. I've read better commentary on the bathroom wall. It's up to the Tidings to reformat this site to put this trash on a seperate page. This impacts our economy, tourism, and civil discourse. This needs to stop! My experience is that this is a well educated, aware, and civil community. The comments here show none of those qualities. STOP! - Ashland - October 20th, 12:22 PM OK Alice in Wonderland! You want us to believe that a lengthy four day article consists of only "spin". Let�s give you the benefit of the doubt because of your claims of innocence and unwarranted "attacks". There is still a question that begs an answer! Why do you not stand against Hartzell/Navickas�s deplorable behavior of obstructing and dismantling by intimidating staff and citizens? Why weren�t you the first to demand their immediate resignation or public apology for such a breach of trust? on and on - ashland - October 20th, 1:16 PM This past week I told Alice Hardesty that she has my upmost respect as a city council member. Alice has never been guilty of trying to bully or unduly influence staff. While you might not agree with some of her individual decisions, I found Alice to thoroughly research issues prior to making decisions she believes are in the best interest of citizens and businesses of this community. Personal attacks are not warranted. She earned my respect. David Stalheim - Ashland, OR - October 20th, 1:56 PM Alice: I'm glad you don't like the heat you brought upon yourself; at least you finally are aware of how the town feels about your terrible leadership and representation. Like it or not, just resign for the good of all. Just Leave - Ashland OR - October 20th, 2:00 PM Alice: If you are so concerned about setting the record straight, please make your own records public re: meetings you and Jack had as coucilors. There is an appearance of impropriety, and people think there are substantial reasons for concern. You have chosen Council allies whose own reputations may be tarnishing yours. The solution: allow the Tidings to see all your files, notes, and records and let them (and anyone else who wants to) analyze the documents. Most of us still don't believe you. answer the real questions - Ashland, OR - October 20th, 2:14 PM Charges, counter-charges, counter-counter-charges...this has become like a poorly produced reality TV show. I'm reminded of the lyrics to an old CSN&Y song: "when everybody's talkin' and nobody's listenin', how can we decide?". Patrick - ashland, or. - October 20th, 2:40 PM "'[S]hadow government' in Ashland, supposedly involving myself and my late husband." "This cabal supposedly involved myself, my late husband...." "The group dissolved well before my husband's death...." After a certain point a politician needs to connect to the constituency beyond simply citing the death of their spouse. That is, if re-election is on their mind. James Carville - Baton Rouge - October 20th, 5:08 PM I appreciate a Councilor responding to the allegations and Hardesty deserves credit for that. So many posters here have requested that very thing, at least now one has spoken to the community. She's right that the Tidings does take a negative spin in most cases, to sensationalize and sell paper. I still wonder what the gatherings were and why she left out the "bogeymen" Swales, Street and Strohmberg. Were they there watching slideshows...and not discussing planning actions and the like. 1 of 100 - Ashland - October 20th, 6:07 PM Once again, we get hit with "why don't you print your name" argument; circle logic at its lowest. The truth needs no name to attribute itself to. Neither does personal opinion. Think of anonymity as a mild form of truth serum, where one is free from reprisal for disagreeing with the more vocal with less to lose. Sometimes it goes a bit far, but it does get the opinions out. This is good for a "Democracy". I hope C.C. knows what that means. Public sentiment and desires are to be heeded, eh? To Hide My Name - Makes no Difference to the TRUTH - October 20th, 6:09 PM Alice, please do us all a favor and resign. I've watched every council meeting and you're clearly way over your head. Go back in retirement. Henry Munson - Ashland OR - October 20th, 7:01 PM I have not felt that Alyce is part of the Hartzell-Navikas unethical behavior and though I don't agree with 95% of her votes which are always predictable, she is not part of the duo of harassing the general working class public or City Staff. It saddens me to see residents distrust & discust with Hartzell-Navikas (ie; Swales/Bullock/Lang) to be taken out on Mrs. Hardesty. Less attitude and more heart people! john q public - Ashland - October 20th, 7:53 PM Alice Hardesty is a fine, contributing member to the Council, and all the conservative-cowboy trolls bouncing around in this Comment forum do not change that. The Council is operating well, the Ashlnad sky is not falling, and these trolls are only a nerdy, keyboard minority which will probably never be able to figure out how a society evolves. How do we know this? They generally can never discuss specific issues in an open dialogue -- preferring to skulk around with ugly little thoughts. Harold - Ashland - October 21st, 6:30 AM Eliminate the finger-pointing by simply recalling the entire Council -- if any of them are worth keeping, they'll easily get themselves re-elected. This also saves money while unifying the community: one recall petition, one vote, let's get it out of our system and move on. If it doesn't work, people can run for Council or move, but at least we know where we stand. Richard Cranium - Ashland OR - October 21st, 9:13 AM Alice Hardesty appears to fairly represent her constitutency (which has been a majority in Ashland for decades). If you have a problem with that, please invoke your recall desires, consider how you would benefit Ashland, and/or run for City Council. This is an open system, and there is no need to sling mud when you could actually do something ... . if you think you can get elected. Or if you think you can get Ashland to retire a Councilor. If you're willing to donate the time .... in public. Tom Marvin - Ashland - October 21st, 9:22 AM "In Germany, they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." --Pastor Martin Niem�ller, 1945. 10/2007: Then they came for the Council Shelly Simmons - Ashland, OR - October 21st, 11:55 AM Mr. Marvin makes an excellent point: if one is unhappy with an elected official, do something positive. Constant "torching" on an anonymous comment page isn't positive. Additionally, although I don't agree with all that Ms. Hardesty wrote, she DID respond. At a minimum, she deserves some respect for serving and for taking the risk of posting her opinions on this site. Patrick - ashland, or. - October 21st, 2:46 PM Bryan you are talking to the new demographic population of Ashland, sadly. And this population is being fed by these types of sloppy meals dished out as "journalism" by the DT/MT. Head Scratcher Ashland, OR Head Scratcher - Ashland, OR - October 21st, 4:03 PM Richard: I agree about recalling the entire Council + Mayor. At the least, we're moving if the next election brings in the same group. I think the method of election also must be recalled. All open positions should go to the highest count of votes; run-offs if required, etc. This present method of electing people to multiple positions in such a small town is really wacky! Recall people & system - Ashland OR - October 21st, 5:12 PM Actually, Alice and Jack have done very little for this community. Oh they attended meetings, but a lot of retired Council people attend City Council meetings, but what have they done? Name one thing where either initated an idea and followed-through on? Give me a break Alice, you have done nothing, but glue yourself to a few misguided individuals who have an agenda - even if you don't. Unfortunately, you vote with them every chance you get. Wake the heck up!!!! X-City Employee - Ashland - October 21st, 10:18 PM It is rather astonishing that people line up behind the mantra of "(not) doing something" when evaluating the City Council. Do they merely not understand that that is not the role of a City Council? To DO something? Listen nitty-witties, City Councilors, as unpaid overseers, are commissioned to evaluate and consent - not design nor create. While sometimes the latter happens, it is more closely the domain of the 6-figure staff, or citizens, to identify and develop proposals. Arthur - Ashland - October 21st, 10:57 PM It might be easier to understand the Council if they weren't trying so hard to obsfucate their role -- I, for one, can't decipher the doublespeak to the depths of their dance, nor should I be expected to derive the discussions of dark secret meetings. (Today's rant is brought to you by the letter D.) Richard Cranium - Ashland OR - October 22nd, 8:49 AM LMAO. Richard Cranium, you have the best name I've seen! Brought to you by the letter D, reminds me that this whole scene is distressing, disgusting, and dispicable. Yes, it's so easy to sit back in the comfort of your computer world and sling mud and ignorant comments. It's also a challenge to understand why this community elected such a group. But hey, it's beautiful here, life is good, and I can easily ignore you all! Love and Light! DH - Ashlnad - October 22nd, 1:15 PM "City Councilors, as unpaid overseers, are commissioned to evaluate and consent - not design nor create." Arthur: At this point, I don't think anyone expects the Council to actually create anything. The issue is that they (and you know who you are) have morphed their role from "not design[ing]" to affirmatively thwarting those who seek to actually improve the city. Harassing emails are a symptom, not the disease. Ashlander - Ashland, OR - October 22nd, 3:24 PM Northernmost suburb of Berkeley indeed. Libs reap what they sow. The festering rot from within is far from done, the only solution of course will be to "tax it till they scream." Sparrows345 - Ashland OR - October 22nd, 3:43 PM love peace health happiness & joy & the freedom to choose.so lets CHOOSE to stick to the verifible facts & start doing whats best for ashland & all the wonderful people who live here.JOHN 6 YEAR RESIDENT OF THE BEST TOWN IN THE WORLD.I LOVE ASHLAND JOHN - ASHLAND OREGAN - October 22nd, 8:41 PM Taxes are good Sparrow. You could pay a LOT more and still have a good life. Chances are, you get the best deal through taxation (when you take the trouble to elect a decent government). The reason Republicans and libertarians hate government and taxes is that they are so bad at it. We DO get screwed by the the kind of people they run and elect. It is because they are so wedded to the engines of greed they (a) don't understand public service, and (b) want to hand it all to corporations. Arthur - Ashland - October 22nd, 9:56 PM Alice. Get Out Jake - Ashland - October 22nd, 10:26 PM Want some cheese on your WHAAAAAhhhhh'mburger? Josh T. - Ashland? - October 22nd, 10:32 PM X City employee: The Hardesty's envisioned and helped form the "Ashland Gallery Association". So as far as "naming one thing" you can attribute in large part the First Friday Artwalk and the Taste of Ashland to them. As far as walking in step with Hartzel, I have seen Alice Hardesty and Hartzel vote differently on a number of occasions. They are not one voice. Alice Hardesty does consider alternative positions and aims for a reasonable compromise. Mike H - Ashland - October 22nd, 10:35 PM From what I've heard, the AGA is actually pretty dysfunctional, so its origins are hardly surprising. Richard Cranium - Ashland OR - October 23rd, 7:17 AM FWIW, Ms. Hardesty does appear the most benign of the three, though she is a pretty reliable follower and so just as damaging to town. That she ran unopposed as she did, and that she was selected as some sort of honorarium to Jack, is a clear testament to the power politics this group plays. They will stop at nothing to maintain a majority. Lop off the head and the beast dies. Hardesty isn't the problem. We all know who is. balance - ashland, or - October 23rd, 1:57 PM Same arguement everytime there is anything about the council. General displeasure and calls to recall. Yet...no action. If you are that unhappy, do something about it. You aren't going to get them to resign by whining on the DT comments section. Until you do something they kick back and do what what they do. Force change if that is what you want. Bill Hendrickson - Ashland, OR - October 23rd, 2:03 PM Arthur, I am intrigued by your statement: "Taxes are good Sparrow...Chances are, you get the best deal through taxation". I am genuinely trying to come up with an example to support this. Can you? I'm trying to think of a time when the government and its people got a "better deal" through paying high taxes than the private sector would. I'm really not attacking you, just trying to understand your argument. Mike - Talent - October 23rd, 2:20 PM Mike, Taxes are good if you are not the one being taxed and you are in control of spending them on your pet projects, friends & political agenda. "wedded to the engines of greed" sounds an awful lot like a Navickas rant. Consider the source. "You get the best deal through taxation" if you are an "organic farmer" from trail, couch surfing in Ashland and don't pay taxes in the city! Heck, the city council motto is "tax everything and let me spend it!" More THERAPY for Alice & her friends! Bubbles - Socialist Republic of Ashland - October 23rd, 4:41 PM Our fundamental infrastructure was built by government through taxes and planning. While not every government we've elected has been good (Nixon, Reagan, Bush, to name a few) we've had enough good ones to still result in an admirable society, albiet one which is very quickly losing its edge -- primarily due to the absurd fascination with privatization currently in fashion. The system itself, Mike, that's my example. 'bubbles': I am not Navickas, but I truly appreciate the compliment. Arthur - Ashland - October 23rd, 7:30 PM It's worth noting that Arthur has spent his entire life collecting a public paycheck. He has no clue as to how wealth is created, only how to get his share through creating entitlements and organizing power blocs to take more from those who do create things of value. Corvus - ashland, OR - October 24th, 8:00 AM Arthur, either you are totally ignorant an uneducated in American history or you just choose to see what you want. Out basic system was and always has been based on capitolism and private ownership. Throw out all the garbage you want, it doesnt make it true. Taking money away from people doesnt make us stronger, it only hurts our economy and thus the little guy. Will you take care of the guy who loses his job because a business has to pay higher taxes rather than higher wages? ArthurWatcher - ashland - October 24th, 8:57 AM Life must be nice in your hatefilled theoretical vaccuum Art. ArthurWatcher - ashland - October 24th, 8:58 AM Arthur, as mentioned above, we live in a free-market capitalist society. I'm still trying to think of a good example to support your argument but can't. I think of the Canadian health-care system. It's a mess. Canadians who can afford it come to America for care. The USSR failed. China has a pitiful standard of living. In America, the publicly funded school system is a joke compared to what free enterprise could do. Let's keep trying to come up with one example of good taxes. Mike - Talent - October 24th, 9:38 AM Okay, if it's a free-market capitalist society, then we should sell the Council seats at auction -- same way they do it in Washington, but more transparent... and why stop there? Put the whole town up for sale, I'm sure some profit-driven enterprise can do a better job than our "elected" officials, especially if they're not hamstrung by quaint regulations on "public participation" and "open records". I'm hoping for a German or Swiss company -- they run a tight ship. Richard Cranium - Ashland OR - October 24th, 11:18 AM Mike, I'm loathe to agree with Arthur, but on this one he's got a point. So, two examples just off the top of my head: our military and our interstate highway system. Seems to me it's not a question of either/or, but how best to balance the sometimes competing, sometimes complementary needs of the private and publice sectors. One of the reasons I think our society is so strong is that it tends to avoid either extreme, and/or corrects itself quickly when it doesn't�so far anyway. Both/And Baby - Ashland, Oregon - October 24th, 12:42 PM Mike: Also, I think you've painted with too large a brush in re: the public school system. Many are in fact lousy, but many work well, too. We never hear about the successful ones due to the nature of the news ("Tonight at 7: sun rises in east, sets in west" just isn't a story.) Also, not every privately run school has proven successful. Many are, but not merely by virtue of being privately run. Both/And Baby - ashland, Oregon - October 24th, 12:57 PM You are quite wrong A-Watcher. The US is primarily a socialist organization, where private enterprise is highly valued. Of course, only when that enterprise is regulated and overseen by wise council does it result in true positives for the society. I am speaking about the long-term - which is a word most modern American capitalists need to look up. Our socialist government has had to bail out capitalist cabals many time, to prevent their total collapse. Your thinking is highly skewed. Arthur - Ashland - October 24th, 2:15 PM The people of this society will not, forever, accept the machinations of any private enterprise system not serving our best interests. Some political regimes are more lax on this than others, and that's why we always have this drama of greed-driven corruption. It is why we have the Mideast War, where the scions of corporatism are trying to assert regional control, for the sake of cheap energy (an old fashioned idea of how we maintain wealth and power). Arthur - Ashland - October 24th, 4:38 PM Leave a Comment: Advertisement: Advertisement: Paid Advertising: Debt Help Inkjet Printers Payday Loans Free Ringtones Debt Consolidation Security Systems Debt Relief New Hampshire Primary Advertisement: Copyright © 2007 Ashland Daily Tidings and Ottaway Newspapers. All Rights Reserved. Del.icio.us