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Smoking debate burns in Ashland Mail Tribune / Drew Fleming Southern Oregon University marketing and business major Rasa Yurchis, 22, lights up during the noon hour Tuesday in front of the Stevenson Union on the Ashland campus. It's not clear if a proposed city ordinance would restrict smoking in such places, but lighting up in many other public areas would be banned. Council hears testimony about proposal to ban lighting up on public land and to license retailers By JOHN DARLING ASHLAND - Minors in Ashland know how and where to get cigarettes, whether from transients, older friends, the Internet or careless retailers, but the Ashland City Council heard plenty of testimony Tuesday that more regulation wouldn't solve the problem. A proposed ordinance before the council would ban smoking on public property in such places as parks, ballfields, pools, rinks, sporting events, playgrounds, theaters and music events. Proposed law absurd, smokers say ASHLAND - Smokers here were universal in their condemnation of a proposed city ordinance to regulate puffing on public property, with most of them saying smokers already have enough common courtesy to keep their secondhand smoke to themselves. "It's completely absurd," said Danielle Summers of Hot Shots Espresso Shop. "We already have restricted areas that don't allow smoking. If the council makes areas for nonsmokers, it should make areas for smokers, because we have the same rights as everyone else. There are a few rude people who smoke, but not everyone who smokes is rude." The proposed law would ban smoking on public property such as ballparks, rinks, pools, playing fields, parks, playgrounds, outdoor theaters and at the Butler Bandshell in Lithia Park during performances. It also bans puffing within 10 feet of the door of a business in which smoking is banned inside. It would require city licensing of tobacco retailers and the city could revoke their licenses if they're caught selling tobacco to minors. It further bans any tobacco self-service, allowing only vendor-assisted sales. It does not ban smoking on sidewalks and streets. Smoker Brian Mathis said the ordinance should not be so sweeping. "I agree with indoor prohibition on smoking, but Ashland tries to prohibit too much stuff so it can be a dream place for retirees." "I don't see how the city has jurisdiction outside the door of a business," said resident Dave Wisdom. "I mean, this is America. That's why we live here, for freedom. I wouldn't smoke in a park or in front of kids. We don't need a law for what's common sense and common courtesy. And besides, how are you going to enforce it?" If the ordinance is passed, said Ashland Police Chief Scott Fleuter, the police don't plan to enforce it through a campaign of citing violators. "It's more about educating people not to smoke in the public places specified in the ordinance. We would be looking toward the spirit of the law, which is appropriate, but not citing everyone," he said. Mike Welch, owner of Puff's Tobacco Shop but a nonsmoker himself, said the proposed ordinance violates basic rights to partake of legal substances in public spaces. "The outdoors is the only place we're leaving to smokers to smoke any more," he said. "This ordinance points to the fact that a few citizens are deciding for the masses what should be good for them. "Common sense should prevail here, but instead we have a bureaucracy trying to regulate everyone in response to an incredibly small minority of (rude) smokers. Conscientious and courteous smokers, which is almost all smokers, are not going to intentionally make themselves targets of disapproval" by smoking where it would annoy others, he added. "It's ridiculous and it annoys me," said smoker Bill Walker. "They're overextending themselves. All the problems they have to work with, and the council dabbles in this minor stuff. And the licensing is just another way for them to draw the blood of the people." Police would not be involved in enforcing licensing as it relates to violation of laws against sales to minors, Fleuter said. "That would be a minor impact on us and would be handled by agencies that handle code enforcement." Sponsored by Citizens for a Healthy Ashland, the law would require licensing of tobacco retailers by the city. The licenses could be revoked for sales to minors. It would also ban smoking within 10 feet of the door of a business that banned smoking inside and end self-service tobacco sales. Council members said they had too little information to act on the proposal. Pat Kirkpatrick, Talent, owner of 13 area Minute Markets, told them the state already licenses tobacco retailers through the Oregon Liquor Control Commission, which may punish them for sales to minors. However, City Attorney Paul Nolte said OLCC has told him no state license is required for tobacco sales. Kirkpatrick also said the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and several other government agencies regulate tobacco sales and call police in to make arrests during their stings. His stores have been fined on several occasions, he added. "The ordinance isn't going to change anything. We've got laws already. You've got to make the kids more accountable and start enforcing the laws already on the books. You need zero tolerance and for the kids to know what the penalties are." Minute Market operations manager Phyllis Simpler said teens easily find smokes through friends, transients and the Internet, and only active police enforcement reduces their access. "I beg you, I implore you as a community to pull together, but not with this Band-Aid (more regulation). If it's not being enforced by police, what's the good of it?" The engineer of the proposed law, Kaaren Borsting, head of Citizens for a Healthy Ashland, said surveys of Ashland residents by Southern Oregon University last year showed 77 percent favoring fining stores for tobacco sales to minors, 74 percent for vendor-assisted sales only, 48 percent for the 10-foot rule and 33 percent for a ban on smoking outdoors in public places or events. Borsting had talked to all 18 Ashland tobacco retailers and reported them cooperative in getting rid of window advertising for tobacco and getting products behind counters, where only vendors could reach them. A string of Ashland high school students supported her in testimony. Mike Welch, owner of Puff's Smoke Shop in Ashland, said much of his income is derived from open displays of tobacco products and that no minors are allowed in his store in the first place to be tempted by them. "If you're under 18, you're not going to be there." Marcus Welch, a Puff's employee, called the ordinance "police control" and "fascist," adding that it would be unenforceable, especially the 10-foot rule, and require Puff's to hire more people. Mayor Alan DeBoer suggested the problem be taken to the state Legislature through the League of Oregon Cities, the lobbying group for cities. "We need to change the state laws on this. I don't think regulation (at the city level) is the answer." Councilman Cameron Hanson also opposed the ordinance with a suggestion to table it before discussion. Councilwoman Cate Hartzell suggested that, if the city adopts licensing, that it be a cost-free license that is automatically renewed, with only violators having to pay a fee. She summed up the mood of the council, saying, "We need to find out more." John Darling is a free-lance writer living in Ashland. E-mail him at [email protected] . 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