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http:// --> Ashland, Oregon HOME Valley & State Sports Nation & World Opinion/Editorial Classifieds Business Columnists Local Issues Obituaries Weather Archive Revels Etcetera Backpage Hot Topics Most Viewed Forum Photo Galleries Video Readers Polls O-Zone Online Games Movie Preview Special Sections Real Estate Guide Menu Guide Shakespeare Subscribe Contact Us Rate Card Place an Ad Featured Galleries: July 23, 2007 Recall effort starts to take shape By Chris Rizo Ashland Daily Tidings After weeks of speculation and Internet discussion, one downtown business owner publicly announced a recall effort of three Ashland city councilors that will begin in earnest this week. Calling them "out in left field," Richard Hansen, owner of Gold & Gems Fine Jewelry on North Main Street, said he and about a dozen other business leaders are launching a recall campaign to unseat Councilors Alice Hardesty, Cate Hartzell and Eric Navickas. Hansen refused to name the other business owners. Specifics about the group could not be confirmed by press time, but Hansen called himself a spokesman and was quoted in a story on KOBI-TV on Sunday night. Hansen said the fledgling effort stems from the councilors' stand against an expansion of the Mt. Ashland Ski Area, which he said is costing local taxpayers at least $100,000, their opposition to a downtown police substation and their perceived desire to convert Oak Knoll Golf Course into affordable housing. "Enough is enough," he said. "It's time to get this community back into a situation where it's being managed properly." However, before the councilors can be ousted, organizers must first collect 1,461 valid signatures, or 15 percent of the votes cast in the last governor's election, to force the issue on the ballot, said City Recorder Barbara Christensen. "I am the first person they would have to start with, and I haven't heard from anyone yet," said Christensen, the city's chief elections officer, adding that a recall election would cost the city up to $7,000. Hansen said he will begin collecting signatures today and will formally launch a campaign within 10 days. Surprise, no surpise Alice Hardesty, surprised by efforts to oust her, said she takes umbrage that her commitment to local economic development is in question. Hardesty, on the council since being appointed to fill-out her late husband's unexpired term, said Sunday that she has always given local merchants a fair chance. "I'm very pro-local business," she said. "I am not too anxious to have Wal-Mart move in, but I am a firm supporter of local businesses." To bolster her point, Hardesty said whenever possible she supports local firms over corporate entities: eschewing Blockbuster for DJ's Video and frequenting local coffeehouses rather than Starbucks. Eric Navickas, barely on the council the six months required before a councilor can be recalled, could not be reached for comment. Neither could Cate Hartzell, elected to the council in 2000 and re-elected in 2004. Councilor Russ Silbiger, not a target of the recall, said he too sees why some of his colleagues have drawn the ire of local businesses but questions whether a recall is the "most appropriate" path for change. "The council needs to take a more consensus-tone and start working together instead of posturizing all the time," said Silbiger, seen by many observers as the moderate voice on a council often beset by bickering. "A lot of times we're not that far apart on what we want to accomplish, but then everyone digs in and doesn't want to move an inch," he said. Undoubtedly, business leaders' resentments have been fueled by the city's planning and appeals process and by how some city councilors have proposed addressing the transient population on the Plaza, Silbiger said. "When councilors make statements that the problem downtown is 'the rich, well-dressed people in the Cadillac SUVs,' I guess that stirs people up," Silbiger said, referencing a recent comment he said Navickas made publicly. Antibusiness sentiment Calling local businesses "the cornerstone of any thriving community," former Ashland Mayor Cathy Shaw said it's no surprise that a recall effort is afoot. "This is a very antibusiness council," Shaw said. "Ashland is a rudderless ship right now and businesses realize that and they're worried." Shaw, who was mayor from 1989 through 2000, said while recalls are "generally a bad idea," she understands "the level of frustration that Ashland businesses are experiencing." Former Councilor Al Willstatter, one of four targeted in Ashland's last City Council recall effort in 1970, said the ordeal was a major setback for the city, making the council "somewhat skittish" to make any decisions while the recall was in process. "Recalls are very divisive and they take years and years to heal," said Willstatter, one of three councilors who survived the recall. "What bothers me about this is that the people had the chance to straighten this whole mess out at the last election." Prior to the 2006 election, Randy Dolinger launched a recall effort of Mayor John Morrison. Dolinger, a homeless man who ran for City Council and lost, could not raise the signatures to recall Morrison. Morrison could not be reached this morning. Chris Rizo covers politics for the Ashland Daily Tidings. He can be reached at [email protected]. Current Comments: Where do I sign??!!! Recall! Ann - Assland - July 23rd, 1:21 PM This is the first thing I've heard that makes me wish I still lived in Ashland. I would sign in a heartbeat. robin - Talent, or - July 23rd, 1:30 PM Sign me up. It would be funny if they weren't serious. "I'm very pro-local-business", says Hardesty. Really? Where's the Northlight project and the Brammo showroom? Aren't these "local business"? I've heard so many stories about local businesses being harassed by the City that I've started to wonder why they even bother coming here when Medford has so much more to offer a small non-Shakespeare-related business. Richard Cranium - Ashland OR - July 23rd, 1:56 PM Good luck to Rich, but why do I have a feeling that Navickas is already planning a naked protest on the sidewalk in front of Gold & Gems? Regis - Ashland, OR - July 23rd, 2:05 PM Sign me up! Let's get these crazy liberals off our council. Greg - Ashland, OR - July 23rd, 2:26 PM YES!!! Mr. Hansen has my full support- and signature. TaxedBeyondRecognition - ashland - July 23rd, 2:42 PM No $ to fund libraies, but let's squander $7000 to undermine the electoral process. Will people learn to ignore money-grubbing, pseudo-conservative muckrakers? This is all about certain greedy business owners & their self-service vs. TRUE service to a community. Affordable housing or a water-wasting golf course? Further erosion of Mt.A beauty to promote unneeded tourism? Councilmembers were voted in by voters; leave em alone to do the good work they were voted in for. Don't undermine democracy! Jason S. - Ashland, OR - July 23rd, 2:56 PM Recalls are for sourpuss, sore-loser conservatives (i.e. pseudo-conservatives) who don't understand democracy. They want to undermine the voice of the People who voted-in these folks. It's like: oh what was the result of the vote? Well let's keep having an election until WE win. Or they just rig elections, don't they? Ashland is behind Hardesty, Hartzell and Navickas, that's why I and the majority of voters elected them. Ignore the pouting, bellyaching, vocal minority. Boycott Gold&Gems instead! Sam Thompson - Ashland, OR - July 23rd, 3:06 PM "Toss the Rubber Ducky out with the bathwater!" Why stop the recall at only 3 councilor? Let's go for all 6 of them. This would give Ashland state and national media attention! We may as well let the whole world know how disfunctional we are. Manuel - Ashland - July 23rd, 3:11 PM The Ashland City Council is out of touch with the "majority" of its citizens. They tend to micromanage every decision even when it comes to daily administrative decisions. The 3 bad apples mentioned here are 3 major reasons the City lost and is still loosing valuable employees. I will sign the petition. I wish these councelors realize they represent many groups and large and that people's rights have been trampled on. Usually you get kissed before or after you get F$#@! Cate doesn't kiss - ashland - July 23rd, 3:33 PM I will be on my way down to Gold N Gems to sign the petition and make a donation for the cause. I admire Rich for taking the initiative to take back Ashland from the "dysfunctionals". I hope Rich sells a bunch of watches in the process, so people can countdown the minutes until these three are gone. Practical - Ashland, Oregon - July 23rd, 3:35 PM After reading Sam Thompson's post, no wonder posters have to use pseudonyms. Go after a guy's business for speaking his mind... No liberties in Ashland anymore? Jason S, affordable housing vs. water wasting golf course? Do you really think its that easy? I'm sure the money grubbing conservatives would admit there is an affordable housing issue here in Ashland, but to remove a local recreational amenity and to limit another, is unfair to the majority of locals - especially the merchants! Bing - Ashland - July 23rd, 3:54 PM Sob,sob! So the business community (or some of them) have decided to ignore the electoral process (or at least the fact the majority voted for these councilors) until they get the police enforced community they seek. Let's have a boycott of downtown business' instead. If Mt.Ashland is beiong cited as a reason, I'm definately for a boycott. Don't mess with our water supply. Ashland doesn't have that much to offer business wise that we should let the Plaza dictate anything of substance. Boycott! Thomas - Ashland - July 23rd, 4:00 PM Rich, I'll be right down to sign. I'm In ( campers in the watershed use fire.burn ) - Ashland - July 23rd, 4:41 PM STOP DESCRIBING DOLINGER AS A "HOMELESS" MAN--AND CALL HIM WHAT HE REALLY IS, A TRANSIENT BY CHOICE. JD - Ashland - July 23rd, 4:42 PM Oak Knoll Golf Course almost became an affordable housing project back in 2007. Really? If people want affordable homes let them buy one of those FEMA trailers that are still for sale. So when did the Mark Antony/Lithia Springs Hotel change its name to the 'Gold N Star?' Soon after the recall and the ski expansion turned Ashland into a tourist Mecca. Starbucks and Gold N Gem jointly bought the Hotel renaming it the Gold N Star; with complementary guest coffee and good-luck rubbing stone. Golden Buck - ashland - July 23rd, 4:43 PM To make this interesting, somebody please start a recall campaign for the other three councilors. Then we can recall all, some, or none. MoreFun - Ashland OR - July 23rd, 4:44 PM What Thomas and the other far left acolytes seem to forget is that it is business that is the engine of this or any city or town. Drive business out and you lose the very citizens that Ashland wants to keep. Instead you will have more folks like me who come here to retire and who will replace those that leave i.e. the workers. Quite frankly having Ashland gentrified by filling it with wealthy retirees is also fine by me. Eventually we will get a council that looks after our needs and concerns. Libertarian - Ashland - July 23rd, 5:10 PM Can't say I've been to Gold and Gems in the last 38 years, but looks like I won't be buying that atomic watch or pendulous polonium necklace from Richard. I do shop Ashland every chance I get. Can't wait to read the names of the misguided who sign on for a recall. It will be an index of local regressives and country club members. I'll trade you 1 city council member for a smarter MAA board. Lazlo - ashland - July 23rd, 5:12 PM Thomas, Great, support the sprawlers, corporates and auto oriented business of the town and leave alone the historic, costly and pedestrian oriented businesses of the community? This is exactly why these people should be recalled because people like you (Tom Dimitre) are too narrowly focused to see the bigger picture! Pauline - Ashland - July 23rd, 5:39 PM To Jason S., Sam Thompson, and Thomas who, respectively, believe that recalls: "undermine the electoral process"; "undermine the voice of the people,"; and, "ignore the electoral process", here's a short history lesson: Oregon was the first state in the US to have the initiative (1902), the referendum (1902), and recall (part of the State Constitution since 1908). All three reforms were promoted by the Direct Legislation League, an offshoot of the Progressive Party, led by William S. U'ren. tom - ashland - July 23rd, 5:47 PM recall continued. Many Conservatives (I guess you would call them "pseudo-conservative - whatever that means) opposed these reforms at the time and many still do. I would suggest that if you don't like it when citizens excercise their constitutional right of direct action that you circulate your own petition to amend the State Constitution to deny them the right to do so. tom - ashland - July 23rd, 5:56 PM It is very ironic and unique that it is not the, "conservative biz community" preventing affordable housing here, but 2-3 pseudo-liberal Councilors The only way a significant mitigation could be developed in Ashland is if it were w/o sprawl, w/o infill, and invisible. Do you remember what happened w/ the last Affordable Housing Coordinator the City hired & why? He was a do-er, not a yapper. He had to resign to another community that really wanted to solve an affordable housing dilema john q. public - Ashland - July 23rd, 6:09 PM I'll be visiting Gold 'N Gems to sign up tomorrow. Navickas, et al need to get out of the way and let reasonable people govern. As a life long Democrat, and a veteran to boot, I have no use for trust fund babies, and obstructionists. bruce - ashland - July 23rd, 6:11 PM Doesn't make recall a good idea. Jeez, organize for the 08 election and defeat Cate, if you can. Her support in town is solid, and she soundly defeated the Gold n' Gems candidate (Morris). This just reads like sour grapes from expansionsists with self-contradictory analysis. You gripe that MAA costs the city 100k with its lawsuits but want to cost it more with a recall. Brilliant! Rootin' for Cate/Eric/Alice - ashland - July 23rd, 7:03 PM I'll be down in the morning to sign on! Interesting that the few Navihartzesty supporters posting here have echoed the anti-business, anti-tourist mantra of the recall targets. They also seem to see fit to call recall supporters names. Too bad you have nothing better on your side, dudes. FYI: anyone who knows me would be hard pressed to call me 'conservative' or 'pseudo-conservative'. Downright liberal would be the liklier description, Sam. Yes, I'm annonymous for my protection! David - Ashland - July 23rd, 7:26 PM Since 1994 any profits made by MAA has gone into the City of Ashlands funds as per the lease agreement. MAA get's NO profit. It ALL goes to the city. Eric spends the cities money, time, and resources, at an alarming rate and recklessly puts the city at risk for BIG $$ legal recourse. He openly degrades local businesses and owners, Cadillac driving tourists, has a history of civil disobedience, and creates a circus sideshow of city council meetings. FormerAshlandTimberman - McCall, ID - July 23rd, 8:18 PM His marriage to the Rogue Chapter of the Sierra Club and his ability to give their main man Tom Dimitre all of the inside, closed door information on lawsuits have again put the city at high risk. Eric has to go. He's turned out to be a huge mistake that no one could have foreseen. No one is to blame. This is a perfect example of the need for a recall process and why every state has one. FormerAshlandTimberman - McCall, ID - July 23rd, 8:18 PM How about a boycott of Tom Dimitre's Rogue Chapter of the Sierra Club? All of their websites scream "Boycott MAA!" MAA gives all of their profit to the city. They employee hundreds of residents. Ski school instructors, lift operators, mechanics, electricians, customer service workers, cooks, and on and on... They give back. How about the tables turning a little. Sending a new message. How about: Recall Navickas, and boycott Rogue Chapter of the Sierra Club! FormerAshlandTimberman - McCall, ID - July 23rd, 8:18 PM I'm not for the recall effort,its divisive and I think the community would be better served by those initiating it instead finding a strong candidate to challenge the incumbents they disagree with. Assuming the recall is successful, who will replace the three.Will the three remaining councilors have a selection process and appoint the replacements for the terms like they had for Jackson, Hearn, and Alice Hardesty? Lastly by the time this is to be voted on we'll be voting on one seat anyway. 1 of 100 - Ashland - July 23rd, 8:29 PM Ah, downtown ..whenever i want a string of beads-a silver tea service-a copy of King Lear in Gold Lame'- or perhaps a ring for my 5th wife, i always head downtown. I want my auto supply and Perrine's back, instead of these tourist-trap artists posing as community folk. Read the threads on the Mt. A debate and you'll get the sense that some of these people could give a rip about ashland- the creek- the mtn.- as long as the tourist $'s enter their wallets; this is their only goal in life. Lazlo - ashland - July 23rd, 8:31 PM Where do I sign! atown - ashland, or - July 23rd, 8:58 PM Interesting how Lazlo and Dimitre seem to think Ashland problems are because of the merchants in the downtown. Who doesn't want a real store where a friend put it recenlty "a place to buy white socks". If King Tom had his way he would force through a lawsuit Harrison's and Perrine's back into business. I wish King Tom would sell his house for the same cost he bought it for too! Bernie - Ashland - July 23rd, 9:59 PM Where do I sign? Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! on and on - ashland - July 23rd, 10:02 PM Lazlo... I think you have it backwards, or that is the direction you wish town would move. We are what we are, a tourist town. I too wish that there were more "real" stores downtown. I'd like to see them develop more space on Lithia Way to give those other businesses a chance. I think vacant lots should be three story buildings. Does that make me a tourism-panderer? A pro-business conservative? What does opposing such growth make those like Mr. Dimitre? Their actions ensure more beads. enough - ashland, or - July 23rd, 10:44 PM And I personally am hoping for three petitions that I will gladly sign. THANK you Mr. Hansen, for stepping and getting this ball rolling. We can only hope it does some good. enough - ashland, or - July 23rd, 10:47 PM Is Gold & Gems the barometer of Ashland's political climate? I'm starting to miss McDonald's and Denny's, back when Ashland had soul. When a cheesy gold merchant sets the rules we're in deep doodoo. newswatch - Ashland, OR - July 23rd, 10:56 PM This recall is about preventing Obstructionist/ Councilors from dismantling Ashland! They�re not qualified to run a meeting much less a City. A recall is not about politics on the left or right. It is about right and wrong and the competency to run a City! Why do you think every department head plus most of their staff have quit? Do you really think it�s to spend more time with their families as they stated or less time with these City Councilors and Blowhard's lecturing them on every issue? mad as ____ - Ashland - July 23rd, 11:22 PM Yeah, get rid of em'!!!...so we can get some new councelors to complain about. Maitre - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 12:01 AM I find the stated impetus for recall disingenuous, and suspect it much more about Mt. Ashland than anything else. We'll see, as this unfolds -- but we do know one thing: 'Downtown' is doing alright -- but even if it wasn't (or isn't) much of the town doesn't see where we need to pimp growth to make this 'Downtown' perpetually well-lubricated. 'Downtown' can make it, or fail to, on its own. It might be better to replace Gold-Gems and Rare-Earth. That may be one outcome. Touche' f**kers. Arthur - Ashland - July 24th, 12:03 AM Thank goodness someone is putting together a recall. We've had a betting pool to guess how long it would take! Heather - Ashland, Oregon - July 24th, 5:24 AM Hey Ashland "businessmen" [and lackeys]: Mt A will NEVER--become a "destination" ski resort. That's the simple reality of weather and geography. Sure, it'd be nice to fill in the gap when OSF is closed. But it just is NOT going to happen. No non-local skier will spend a week on Mt A instead of Mammoth, or Bachelor, or any of the other 2-3 dozen true Destination Ski Resorts. Skiers just aren't as stupid as our local civic "leaders". For once, act like YOU are paying, not US. No more AFNs! Tom Besich - Ashland - July 24th, 7:07 AM It is a sad comment on the current state of politics in Ashland that it has come to recall. That said, I am not surprised, or unsympathetic. I appreciate Mr. Hansen stepping forward and taking the heat that that folks who make ME look conservative will surely bring to bear upon his reputation. However, these three, along with others, ran as a "Party" for positions that are by definition non-partisan. For that politicizing alone they deserve what they get. I will sign the petition. George Kramer - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 7:15 AM so, would it "undermine the electoral process"; "undermine the voice of the people,"; and, "ignore the electoral process" if we recalled Bush? Mike - Talent - July 24th, 7:27 AM Lazlo, with his childish, nonfactual rants is the perfect example of people in Ashland who refuse to see that what made this town is TOURISM, plain and simple. Without it, this would be just another backwater dump like it essentially was in those 'good old days' (I lived here then and know). It's time to get rid of those who masquerade behind 'caring' about Ashland to the point of destroying it. Support the recall. It's WAY past due. Lazlo watcher - Ashland - July 24th, 7:33 AM Recalls are difficult and risk further community fracturing. However, leaders that isolate, obstruct, and publicly demean any group they don�t like are destructive. Whether you�re willing to acknowledge this or not, these Councilors on a recall list have undermined and breached the trust of Ashland citizen�s. Just to name a few: Fear mongering over ever issue, propagandizing the watershed destruction for the purpose of obstructing MAA, and ongoing fiscal recklessness to move personal agendas. downtown - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 8:30 AM Arthur(Navikas), Tom Besich, Sam et al... It is so interesting to read your posts that revert, in large part, to name calling and crude language disguised as asterisks rather than any fact based information. Do you not have any REAL reasons that these three shouldn't be recalled other than the fact that many of us apparent "sour pusses", "lackeys", "f'ers" and worse see them as a threat to the economic survival of Ashland? Your posts typify these three councillors' attitudes. Geez!! - Ashland - July 24th, 8:35 AM ...yes, this IS about the economic survival of Ashland. These three would tie the city in knots that will destroy it if they're let to run rampant. Geez!! - Ashland - July 24th, 8:36 AM What those of you who support these three don't seem to understand is that what brought you here to begin with is the prosperity that tourism has brought. That prosperity also makes it attractive to those who would live off panhandling and "the land"...the 'less fortunate' among us that this council triumvirate feels so strongly about. Of course, kill tourism/business and values will drop. Prosperity will leave and there will be an overabundance of affordable housing. 'Problem' solved. David - Ashland - July 24th, 8:43 AM After reading all the above posts, and the nasty name calling that accompanies the 3 councilors supporters, I'm in! I'll be down to sign & bring friends. Perhaps when we get rid of Hartzel, Hardesty & Navickas some civility will return. As for Hardesty's claim of being probusiness: I've been watching council meetings for months and you vote in lock-step with Hartzell. Just like your anti-city employee vote just the other day against a cost of living raise. You talk one way and vote another. Linda - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 9:00 AM What the recallniks really what is a continuation of the pro-growth rubberstamping (and they really can't think much past MAA) -- and they resent, terribly, people on the council who see the bigger picture -- or at least another side of the bigger picture. The recallniks live and die for pro-business economic growth, for that is their world. So no, we don't "call them names", we just have to live in the same world with them, and bear the truer costs of their narrow, selfish perspective. Arthur - Ashland - July 24th, 9:21 AM Alarmist conservatives claim 'we will kill Mt. A and downtown if we don't expand.'-and provide zero supporting data. We have become a tourist-trap as downtown landlords raise rents-(5-10k per month)and prop. taxes escalate-so that only trinket shops can make it here. When gas goes to $5 a gal and our isolation works against us, then I guess the trinket bubble bursts. I will shop at businesses that stand behind preservation instead of exploitation. Lazlo - ashland - July 24th, 9:24 AM Arthur, god bless him, writes "The recallniks live and die for pro-business economic growth, for that is their world." RecallNiks? I thought that was what pro-business conservatives called the liberal likes of you? What you fail to understand is any sense of proportion, a failing you share with the hopeful recalled. That black/white attitude, also shared, is what makes this recall so necessary. enough - ashland, or - July 24th, 9:49 AM Let me know where I can sign stu - ashland, or - July 24th, 9:58 AM I feel embarrassed to be a part of a city and people that blame our council for their own inability to see the bigger mess we as humans live in. This country has turned beyond imaginable, because of narrow minded people, greedy business owners and selfish developers. We are all in this together and another tree cut on Mt.A , Expansion, Recall or diversion from the real problem of ignorant merchants... Will make me loose a lot of faith in a place I call home and the future for our kids. Stop the bullying , Conserve,Protect,Recycle and Educate...It's generations to come that we are responsible for. No Recall ! For our Kids Sake ! parent and local business owner - ashland,or - July 24th, 10:06 AM The people who know/think business only will perpetually try to solve problems by expansion -- probably because the American model is based on growth (even in the face of obvious limits to growth and the catastrophic consequences of over-running those limits). The fact is that problems are only solved by facing limits. Making more money, trying to have ever more fun, never works. We need to mature as a society, slow down, and keep Ashland as small as possible. Our councillors are heroes. Harold - Ashland - July 24th, 10:34 AM George Kramer -- my disappointment in you is palpable. You managed to slam Navickas during the campaign, support Lemhouse whose main virtue was that he had never done anything in Ashland but live here, and now you back the recall. You're better than that, and your endorsement of the recall really positions you with those people who have far less brainpower than you do. Sour recall folks supported by a state-renowned historic consultant -- that's something I never thought you'd do. Kramer Watcher - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 10:35 AM Plenty of shill posters in this thread! I wonder if this is Ron or Rich or just the crazed machinations of the right wing minority in Ashland attempting to appear they are anything other than fringe. Thanks Rich for helping divide our town, as if we don't have enough elections as it is! I will vote with my pocket book. I have bought a number of pieces each year from Gold and Gems and will cease to buy another. I agree, if three go up for recall, all six will go up and I'll help with it. E - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 10:36 AM Hey "Geez", et al, $15,000,000.00 That's what a similar "pro-business", "clean jobs" proposal cost the City and everyone who lives here. That money would keep the library open, rebuild schools, and pay for many other wish-list projects. Where did it go? Down the AFN rathole. Why? Because our idiot city council was misled by special interest "pro-business" scammers. I'm not supporting your "liberal" targets; I just don't want the City screwed yet again. And for credibility, use your real name. Tom Besich - Ashland - July 24th, 10:56 AM Tidings do a story. Give us a progress report on what the Council actually accomplished over the past 6 or 12 months. Assuming you can come up with anything significant, then inform us how each councilor voted. Please no stories on how it took two years for them to decide on Council Goals! What have they've done recently? Provide those answers now while recall is a hot topic. Thanks Manuel - Ashland - July 24th, 11:02 AM The fear-mongers/councilors won�t support or even want Ashland to keep it's charming, interesting and fun shops, theater, dinning or expanded skiing for locals and tourist alike. Thankfully they were not our forefathers and we have an economic niche that helps supports our vibrant and diverse community. With their unjustified name-calling and fear-mongers they do not support opportunity or continued success in Ashland. They are simply in denial and delusional about Ashland's future. RECALL NOW!! on and on - ashland - July 24th, 11:35 AM Mr. Hansen, You have no idea how happy I am that you have come forward to lead this recall effort! You have my complete support. Bring it on! AR - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 12:21 PM How do some of these posters who bash business owners as regressives earn their daily sustenance? Are you all on federal grants, or just so progressively evolved that your bodies no longer need food, shelter, a place to work, money and such. Just Gaia and I?? Just wondering... Oh, and for those who say recalls go against the democratic process...does this include the common desire from many on these pages to impeach Bush and Cheney and remove them from office? Oh...that's DIFFERENT?? Bill Meyer ( [email protected] ) - Jacksonville - July 24th, 12:47 PM I support a recall 100% and will sign without question! And you put my name on that even though I fully expect the bashers will start attacking. David Bjurstrom - Ashland - July 24th, 1:10 PM MyWatcher (wow, I must have really hit the bigtime!) I am sorry you are so disappointed. I will tell you though that in my work throughout the state I have the luxury of seeing towns with real problems and functional councils that address them and know Ashland, once a leader, now pales in comparison. I don't like that one bit. I did not initiate a recall effort but at this point am willing to give one a shot as a way of breaking through the stalemate that Ashland is facing. George Kramer - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 1:45 PM Under Alan DeBoer Ashland often made the top 5 small cities to live in. Since this council took office it haas declined in the various rankings to the point where the latest Money survey did not rank it in the top 100. Why? From looking at the ranking criteria it became obvious that affordability was out of sync with the growth of businesses offering high-wage salaries. As this council insists on continuing to raise taxes but does nothing to support business it will simply get worse. Recall 'em Libertarian - Ashland - July 24th, 3:10 PM It may disappoint those with direct interest in the few recently failed projects (how many was Navickas on Council for?), and it may come as a surprise to the dumber do-bodies who classify rubberstamping development as "doing something" -- but it is useful to point out that part of the purpose of a town council is to protect a town, not merely lubricate its so-called growth. Recallniks, there are a lot of ways to provide positive input to the City instead of resorting to your darker sides. Arthur - Ashland - July 24th, 3:22 PM As somebody who voted for all three of these councilors and see them doing just what they should be doing, I will oppose this recall every step of the way. Hartzell and Navickas won their seats with a majority of voters - both Jackson and Silbiger won with less than a majority. The proponents of this recall failed to run anybody against Hardesty. These 3 are only upholding the values of this community, which the recall proponents are out of touch with.... Antipreophogic New World Order - Ashland, Oregon - July 24th, 3:37 PM Arthur, as I wrote above, it is all about proportion and balance. Nobody locals wants to see rubber-stamp growth that will destroy Ashland. But your ying to that yang, fighting business, fighting virtually every project, isn't doing town any good and assures our continued problems. While "Compromise" may have become a dirty word in the Verde world, it is what Ashland has always done well by. And I will tell you I lean Green Party, but not in the hands of the radicals here. enough - ashland, or - July 24th, 3:46 PM It's time for us Dem's to take back our party and our town! We are not handcuffed to these radical extremists. We are not anti-community and business! We are not against everything mainstream! This seems to be what these three city councilors are about. It's embarrassing! It's gone on long enough! We love Ashland! We Dem's have a great history. We have a terriffic vision. One of strength, social equity, and prosperity. Recall these 3 councilors now. They're not Ashland. DowntownAprilBrown - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 4:54 PM Are you kidding? I voted for these guys. *hit! I can't believe they have gone this far. Look Ashland is not full of greedy, right-wing, calloused business people. They left long ago. These business people are the ambassadors of our town! They feel our energy and employe that towards the people who seek that energy out (tourists). We need an economic pulse. We need a niche. We have one in this beautiful town with OSF, MAA, SOSU, downtown, the park.... Unfortunately we need to recall. Liberal - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 5:13 PM I am sure the pro-recall camp that are posting here are trying to make it look like they are representing most of Ashland, they are but a handful at most. It is too bad that people of good repute and some with not so good can hide behind their psuedos on this forum and play self righteous errogant I KNOW WHATS BEST FOR THIS TOWN blowhards. If they really had any b*&ls they would come out in the open with their real names, very few seem to be man or woman enough to do that here. Harold Meeks - Ashland - July 24th, 5:19 PM Getting off the wretched city lists which "Libertarian" covets above strikes me as a very good thing -- and if any of our present councillors are responsible in any way, let us give them a giant raise. The last thing you want to do is attract flies to our once-fair town by touting it as a great potential MoneyPlace. Ashland was much more livable for families of all levels back when it was fairly obscure and unknown. Wise, nonpoisonous business opportunities have always abounded here Libby. Harold - Ashland - July 24th, 5:35 PM Here we go, turning into a nasty vindictive little town ala Gold Hill. chinese toothpaste - ashland - July 24th, 5:45 PM It's amusing to read Arthur(Navikas)'s words about rubber stamping. These three councilors rubber stamp one another so much they're looking like a scrap book! Being a city council is about LEADING. It is NOT about knotting up the process so badly that nothing gets done. To paraphrse 'Arthur(Navickas)'... Recall Targets: There are a lot of ways to provide positive input to the City instead of resorting to your darker sides. Give compromise & cooperation a try. Yeah, right! - Ashland - July 24th, 5:58 PM Thank You Mr.Hansen. Please start the petition in the Oak Knoll/Wedgewood neighborhoods.I do not believe the city of Ashland had a choice to have Mrs.Hardesty on the council and I am still in disbelief that at 10pm election day Greg Lemhouse was ahead by something like 250 votes and ended up losing by that many after a glinch in the counting process. There's 2 that I don't think the majority of good people in Ashland supported. $7000 for a recall is better then $100,000 for the Mt.Ashland fiasco All For the RECALL! - Ashland, Oregon - July 24th, 6:05 PM Seriously, If you as a left person has so disenfranchised yourself from mainstream Ashland as to get the Mayor, the general public, and of all things the Ashland Daily Tidings working against you, you may have a serious perception and/or performance problem. Really, it takes a lot of angst to get all of these entities worked up at the same time. Not even Bush/Cheney has done that. Councilors, better cut your loses and run while you can. Hell's coming to breakfast and you invited it. Josey Wales - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 6:14 PM This is IRONY; Cate driving around town with an �Impeach Bush� in big letters on the rear window of her car. Manuel, Do you think you�re funny? That would be the shortest article in history. It would be one word �Nothing� This was once a great place to live, we had Rent a Grizzly�s, we had safe parks, (No bomb threats) Our hired leaders wanted to work here, our schools were operational and the libraries were open. It�s not too late to turn this ship around and head it back in the wind. Lori Munson - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 6:30 PM It doesn�t matter if we�re a Democrat or Republican, we just need to compromise and work together and understand we need businesses to supply employment and taxes for the city to operate on. I wish the big three could�ve understood that. Lori Munson - Ashland, OR. - July 24th, 6:34 PM Didn't realise one could post a reply more than once; great! Bottom line, a recall vote wastes taxpayers' $ (when there is so much more valuable things upon which to spend City $ upon . . . i.e. libraries ~Hello?~). And I reiterate: a recall undermines democracy, for the majority of Ashland voters voted these folks in; therefore, they should be permitted to act for that majority. That's democracy. If Ashlanders don't like the representation, then vote them out next election. Recall=Tyranny. Jason S. - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 8:17 PM They're not Ashland???? Earth to April.... newswatch - Ashland As I stated I dont support a recall effort. However to say it is undemocratic Jason S. is wrong. Its a process embedded in our constitution (state) that allows electeds to remain accountable to the citizenry. Getting the signatures necessary to force a recall vote is no small undertaking, and then getting the votes to oust the Councilors is another issue and thats a democratic vote. If they one once and thats still the will of the people they'll win again. 1 of 100 - Ashland - July 24th, 10:51 PM It's interesting how the rocket scientists which abound in these Comments have come to the conclusion that 3 councillors are hurting the town's economic climate -- when they have really have not. Evidently growth creeps will suppress every shred of sense in order to follow the 19th century American desire to expand, expand, expand. What else could you expect from people addicted, body and soul, to mindless growth? Denial and other lies. Arthur - Ashland - July 24th, 11:06 PM Jason, Neither Hardesty nor Navikas can lay an unshakeable claim to having a solid mandate of support from Ashland's residents: Hardesty ran unopposed (Arguably a sympathy gesture from prospective candidates as the city council had appointed her only five months before to the seat vacated by the death of her then-recently deceased husband Jack). Navikas won in a squeeker by 200 hundred votes. In our winner-take-all system of elections, a win is a win, but neither of these carries much punch. John Gaffey - Ashland, OR - July 24th, 11:48 PM Uh, Jason, you need to check your facts, dude. A recall doesn't "undermine democracy". In a sense, it IS democracy in it's highes form in that the VOTERS make the decision on the results. Now, if we had to just live with these "green tyrants" with no recourse at all, THAT would undermine democracy. That would undermine the peoples' right to remove those 3 from office should the people so desire. You show your ignorance by writing "Recall=Tyranny". Recall = the peoples' power! Yeah, right! - Ashland - July 25th, 7:26 AM And, should a recall be turned down by voters, THAT, TOO, is democracy. It is the PEOPLE deciding! Yeah, right! - Ashland - July 25th, 7:27 AM Jason S.: So I suppose you would be against the impeachment of George W., based on democratic principles? P.s. $7,000 won't open any libraries. Inquisitive - Ashland, OR - July 25th, 7:28 AM That IS democracy. If it passes, that's vox populi! Recall goes as far back as the Mass. Bay Colony (1630) and the Articles of Confederation (1781). It is, in fact, along with the "initiative" and "referendum" process, one of the three pillars of "direct democracy", advocated by the Progressive and the Populist party. Oregon's Sec. of State says "Recall is one way in which Oregon pioneered citizen control of government." It ensures "quality and integrity of our elected public officials". Mike - Talent - July 25th, 7:37 AM One day I felt like bombarding one article with comments. I posted 20 comments under different names. Every one was posted and the article was highlighted as a "most commented on". This website is a propagandist's dream and says nothing of the community. The tidings poll is very similar and is easily hacked. Let's remember Lemhouse won on the Tiding's Poll by a landslide. Following a nasty mudslinging campaign against him, Navickas won the election. Ashland conservatives control the virtual. Reality - Ashland OR - July 25th, 8:01 AM Whatever you may believe about the appropriateness of recalling current Ashland councilors, to claim that such is "anti-democracy" is absurd. The referendum/recall system adopted by Oregon under the leadership of William U'Ren is instead democracy at its most ground level, known, and respected, nationally as the "Oregon System." It's just one of the many things from public beaches to bottle bills and land use planning that Oregonians working together have pioneered nationally. George Kramer - Ashland, OR - July 25th, 8:05 AM We know this recall movement is primarily about the ski expansion, which is clearly in a fight to the finish. MAA will try lawsuits, recalls, and probably nighttime raids on old growth -- because certain people who are addicted to the feel of gravity pulling them down a slippery slope are also conditioned to .... growth and expansion. That is why the pure capitalists amongst us are the driving force in this recall. "Recall", they will discover, is also a slippery slope. Arthur - Ashland - July 25th, 8:46 AM This recal effort will be interesting thing to watch. I am wondering who is going to come forward to fill these positions if this recall succeeds? If Ashlanders read these vicious brutal attacks against the now coucilors who at least came forward and ran for election,as opposed to those who hide behind psuedos on these forums, I highly doubt if anyone will have the strength to take on these brutes. It doesn't matter who gets in there,if these "children"don't get their way,they will scream recall Deb Mauer - Ashland - July 25th, 9:00 AM so the "REALITY", is the majority of voters in Ashland think the three named councilors are best serving the needs of the city and its citizens, and not acting upon and voting on their own agendas? The "reality" is that there are just a few money-grubbing pro-business, anti-environment misanthropes who are spending their time blogging the ADT forum? That anyone paying attention (or looking for surreal entertainment) to the Council meetings sees the spirit of cooperation they bring to the table? Mike - Talent - July 25th, 9:11 AM Conservative republican talk show host Rush Limbaugh loves it when the democrats get a president into office. He makes millions ridiculing every move they make. Not much fun nit picking your own party. Thinking that this crowd of hang em highers would be miserable if this town was being run like a clock. How would they fill the empty hours if they had no one to personally attack online? Nice to know that Karma will come back at this bunch sooner or later.. The Watcher - Ashland - July 25th, 9:21 AM Of course this recall is about the expansion, and the people that support the recall here are finally going to be forced to sign their real names to something to get it going. Some of them could risk a slander suit with some of the below the belt,inflamatory,personal attacks that have been leveled on some of the council members. We will now seperate the big hot dogs from the little weinies watching too - Ashland - July 25th, 10:20 AM Seems to me folks are really looking to restore critical thinking, thoughtful problem solving, and programs and solutions that truly benefit what is best for the city. Statesmanship, professionalism, and ethics are gone and it is time for a new Council. For me it is not a specific issue , it is how supposedly mature adults elected to represent the people are conducting the City's business. I see immaturity, a lack of civility, and conduct unbecoming of their responsibilities. I am apalled. Gary - Ashland - July 25th, 11:12 AM The recall is NOT just about the expansion. It's also: (1) a seemingly limitless tax-burden; (2) converting Oak Knoll into housing projects; (3)(suddenly) arguing for councilor pay-raises; and (4)anti-development troika -- of which the three councilors are associated -- hell-bent on silencing any opponent with endless red-tape. And these are just the appetizers... Ashland Voters - Ashland, OR - July 25th, 11:13 AM What�s next for Ashland? More polluted ponds, broken fountains, dead swans, filthy streets and sidewalks, AFN debt, DEQ fines for the sewer plant, fear mongering non-issues, water boondoggles, a dysfunctional planning department with no direction, higher taxes/fees, another over-sized head for Abe, absurd legal battles with MAA and others, inefficient solar panels, more incivility, closed library, pools, and schools. Where is the outrage? Is this what you had in mind when you voted? RECALL NOW! mad as ____ - ashland - July 25th, 1:06 PM I would think that Ashland would try to work out the problems here within our already existing structure, have a town meeting, get everyone with a stake together, work on alternative answers to the problems. Instead we are set to blow this town wide open with a recall that is going to create another fiasco like what is happening in Gold Hill. The existing problems will still be there but they will then be compounded with citizens at each others throats to boot. More poblems, no answers - Ashland - July 25th, 1:27 PM Each here have their hearts in Ash's best interest.It's unfortunate that it's shown through a debate of offenses.On one hand we see that Ashland is hard to live in w/o a strong economic base, on the other, we are a town of eco/socially aware people trying to make a better reality for the long run.If a strong econ. niche is needed, perhaps look(as a community)into investing in alt. energy for The Valley.Provide positive change that extends passed the city limits and gives jobs. Is OakKnoll windy? Rae - Ashland - July 25th, 2:36 PM We have all lost the ability to compromise. Everyone is an expert on every subject and thus always right. Ha! robin - Talent, or - July 25th, 3:23 PM Do you feel that Ashland is a better place than it was 1 or 5 years ago? Is it more of a healthy "community" or less? More friendly or less? Is the city council politics more fair or less? Do you feel that Hartzell, Navikas and Hardesty represent you? Do you feel that Hartzell's job fighting Mt.A or Eric's lawsuit against MtA is "Ethical" on it's fate now? Do you think they are helping to solve affordable housing or hurting any solutions? Do they listen or just talk? john q. public - Ashland, OR - July 25th, 3:46 PM Recall Chapman, Jackson, and Silbiger. Get them out and we'll have a functional council that can get things done to Ashland's betterment. Ouster - Ashland OR - July 25th, 3:58 PM The sheer stupidity of the recallniks is best shown through their insistance that all of Ashland's problems stem from a certain councillor who has been on council now, for all of 6-7 months. I will wager that a sizable majority of the recallniks also voted twice for Bush and several times for Bush's sothern Oregon robot Walden -- such are the parallels. Arthur - Ashland - July 25th, 5:36 PM Just this once I would like to see the Ashland Board of Realtors and the Chamber of Commerce take a position on this crucial issue. If they are serious about contributing to the economic welfare of our community, their silence on issues such as this is irresponsible. Guess they're just happy TAKING from the community and not contributing to it's overall welfare. SeppiSlice - Ashland - July 25th, 6:22 PM On the 'top ten' priority list, I saw no mention of the local school system, including the university. That's why I signed. Ashland would be much more thriving if it (and Oregon in general) didn't experience constant brain drain. This place feels more like a collection of gated attractions than a small town these days. The houses on Siskiyou that won't move, they turn into B&Bs. Just once on the walk home from work, I'd like to see kids playing in those yards and not a NO VACANCY sign. Angela Galvan - Ashland, OR - July 25th, 6:42 PM Right Angela! Ashland was sold to who ever would come here, by our real estate advertisers, the