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HARRY GOID, self-actnitted Soviet espionag agent, arrested on 5/23/50,Follolri -GOLD's arrest and incarceration in olmesburg County Prison,Phila phia, he fshed, on intervi ' onnation oonoerni £1-1,E___ ,m mssand mum. so on6/S§S0a.d- Avie that American, wa TIN," was LACK. I-ls iden-tified a phot6ya DEAN S GK as being i' cal with AL SLACK.
Details oi GOLD's version of his association with and materials received
frcm SLACK in Rochester, N.I..and Kingsport, '1enn., listed in two separate
.s:Lgned~statements. smcx met "SAM" on 12/7/1h in N.Y.O._ com said he hadto give SIACK "pep talks" as SLACK did not desire to continue in espionage
activities. Items secured during search of residence of HARRY GOLD relat-ing to material showing association of SLACK and GOID, listed in sequence.GOID's version of where he obtained each itan set forth. GOLD a sed
um in June 1915 £011 hlS contact oi - , owing ' EH1. JULIUS ICLAU SIB in .r'Santa Fe, N.H., he also contacted an American soldier in e,
N.H. GOLD's signed statement relative to dealings with this unknown
contact set out. Description of the American soldier and his wife fur-
nished. alhuquerque Confidential Informant T-l advised DAVID GREENGIAS8
logical suspect. Current photographs of house in which GOID in residenceduring the pertinent period shown to GOLD. Current photographs of DAVIDeaaemmss and his vrife also shown. On 6/15/50 com identified a photo-
graph of DAVID GREENGIASS as individual frcm whom he obtained informationin June 191;; at Albuquerque, mu. on 7/10/50 com, in signed statement,advised he had torn piece of paper to present to DAVID CH2? - PGLABS as meansof identication in 1916. GIEENGLASS had other piece oi -iorn paper that
matched segnent in GOLD's possession. GOLD states he now believes therelati he was to contact in December 19115 for information re CRENGIASS
may .besn named JULIUS. CDLD again stated that 's wifenu-r mouse, had knowledge oi husband's_aotivities._ com! on 7/IJJSO
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furnished two signed statements re his knowledge of AEMHAM HIOIHMAN.
GOLD relates he met BROIHMAN at direction of Soviet espionage superior,smimoemimov, in 1910.. mommn stated he did nohgeg along with
GOLD's predecessor,;924HEI.EIN." GOLD used alias of FHA LER in meet-
ing HKYIHMAN. During early 19142 HIOTHMAN furnished ccmplete and de-
tailed report on Buna--6 material to GOLD for transuission to Soviets. -
GOLD received instructions om SEMENOV to congratulate and praise
E101!-MAN for turning over Buns.-S materiel. In late 1911.2 HIOTHMAN de-
livered to GOID information in great detail concerning mixing equipment
for transmittal to the Soviets. Subsequent to furnishing this data, -
perhaps oei-1y in 19143, com states BROTHMAN, smisnov and can met in
Lincoln Hotel, N.Y.C. This meeting was of scme five hours duration.
HUI!-MAN furnished material re an aerosol dispenser and magnesium PUFF
der to GOLD for transmittal to Soviets. This material was not turned .
over to SEMENOV, according to GOLD. GOIJJ states HIOTHMAN never received
any remuneration for his wo'rk for Soviets. However, GOLD advised that
in connection with Buns-S material, HIOTHMAN did receive money for blue-
printing expenses. HICIHMAN was interested in receiving Soviet firmn-
cial backing forwork on various chemical processes. SEMENOV, when »
informed by GOLD oi this, stated that Br'iOTI-MAN should secure a job with
a large industrial firm and in that _ assist the Soviets. In early191;!» com had a new Soviet oonmotom," identified subsequently by
him as ANATOLI A-f;"EKOVI.EV. This new Soviet espionage superior told
GOLD under no conditions to meet HIUIHMAN again. GOLD, in supplement
to first signed statement on 7/12/50, said shortly after EROTHMAN met
SHEENUV in Lincoln Hotel in early 19 , he again met HWTHIJAN. At thismeeting com W38 introduced w by uwrmmu as *i.IFs.i1~1I?I""_,1I_t5~Y§
at this meeting said, "Shake the and t at shook the hand oi --, you
know." GOLD said that WEBER referred to H{O'IHMAN's meeting with SEMEIUV.
HIOTLIMAN told GOLD subsequently he had not discussed SELEENUV meeting
with WEI-3% GOLD, in separate signed statement furnished on 7/ll/SO,
stated that at BROTHMAN's bidding he told untrue story re his initial
meeting and association with 'H1OTHLIAN, to FBI and Federal Grand Jury
in N.1.G. in summer of 1916!. com: also said ERUEHMAN id not know his
true name until sou: was employed by awrrhmn in l9h6. on 7/13/So com
furnished supplenental signed statenent re m0'1HMAN's appearance before
Federal Grand Jury. GOID received impression that BROII-MAN had told
associates that GOLD, when interviewed by FBI, had fixed entire blame
on ERUIHMAN. Various items secured during search of GOLD's residence
showing relationship with BROTHMAN, set forth. GOLD's ccnments concern-
ing these itans listed. Certain of these items listed as emanating -om
Hendrick Manufacturing Company, Carbondale, Pa. Comments oi Estimating
Engineer J. K. McWILLIALB, Hendrick Manufacturing Company, listed. GO1iD'sknowledge of espionage history of EIOTI-{MAN set forth. B7 __ - -
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H o -M.__"____.. -. -I92I'v"*-I I. INTRODUCTION _ . -. .-_. . . -
3 GOLD, o£ 6823 Kindred Street, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania,
on May 22, 1950, advised Special Agents '1'. SCOTT MILLER, JR. and RICHARD E.
BRENNAN that he was the individual to whom Dr. E-MIL JULIUS KLAUS FUOI-B passed
information concerning the atunic bomb, for transnission to Russia.
Dr. El92lIL_JULlII_§____I§_IAUS FUCHS on March 1, 1950 entered a plea
of guilty to the cf1E|.1'"-§e'""6f "having traiiitted atcmic secrets of both Britain
and the United States to the Soviet Uron, before Lord Chief Justice GODDARD,
in the Senior Assice Court of the British Empire, at London, England. FUOI-B
was sentenced to fourteen years imprisonment.
On May 23, 1950; a hearing was held before United States
District Judge JAMES P. HcCElANERI, Rstern District oi Pennsylvania, sitting
at Philadelphia. Federal Judge llcGR.ANE3Y advised the subject of his constitu-
tional rights and stated he was entitled to the benet of -counsel and at this
time permitted HARRY GOLD to read a copy of the complaint filed against him in
the Eastern District of New York on May 23, 1950. Upon completion oi the hear-
ing before Federal Judge llc§i'RANHll', bail was set in the amount of $100,000, and
GOLD was rananded to the custody of the United States Marshal in default of bail.
GOLD was removed by the United States Marshal and placed in Hoyamensing Prison,
Philadelphia. He was later removed frcm the Moyamensing County Prison because
of the crowded conditions and placed in the 1-lolmeshurg County Prison by prisonauthorities. - - '
Following the arrest and incarceration oi HARRY GOLD in the
Holmesburg County Prison at Philadelphia, he has been interviewed on a contimxing
basis by Special Agents MILLER and BRENNAN. During the cour. e of these inter-
views, he has i'u.rnished the information set out in succeeding sections of this
report concerning his American contacts, DEAN SLAQK, GREENGIASSandAHi.AHAll EQQI-MAN, 7' " '
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A-' t1m9w.ds5I=-%.Mia_w§§i;H. wsam -A'np4gJFFAI9J__g@ was
-~--- on my 22 and 25, 1950; 1-may com furnished the £o].].cwing in-
formation to Special Agents T. SCOTT NILLEI, JR. and RICHARD E. BRENNAN:
He advised that he had obtained material and information Tran an
individual what he met scmetime in late 1911.1 or early 191:2. This individual,
GOLD said, he knew as MARTIN and believed that he worked at Eastman Kodak Company,
Rochester, New York. Concerning this indie-idua1's ployment, GOLD said he was -
not sure that MARTIN actually worked at Eastman Kodak, but that this again was an
impression of his. GOID described MARTIN as follows:
Height t
Height 165 pounds
Hair Light brown
Eyes ~ Brown, dark
. Mouth Fairly wide
Face 4 Thin
Build. - Generally lanky oz-bony physical structure
- _ Occupation Probablgr a chemist or an engineer
'1sll to 511111
B. IDENTIFICATION OF ALFRED DEAN SLACKI 7' i" I W --_..._._;.-...._.. ----.-_-~I-
On June 1, 1950, in the chambers of Judge JAMES P. Mc{i?.ANERY,
at which time JOHN D. ll. H.Al[[L'ION and AUGUSTUS S. BALLARD, attorneys for subject
GOLD, were present, Mr. HAMILTON infomed Special Agent '1. SCOTT MILLER, JR. that
HARRY GOID had requested that the Agents talk to him as soon as the conference
with Er. HAMILTON was ccmpleted.
HARRI GOLD then stated privately to Special Agent MILE-E that
the individual whom he had previously stated was known to him only as MARTIN, was
actually an individual named AL SLACK, and that it was GOLD himself who used the
alias of MARTIN. The interview was of necessity ended at this time..
On June 3, 1950, HARRY GOLD was shown a photograph of ALFRED
DEAN SLACK, and he identified SLACK as being the individual whom he lcnew as AL
SLACK. On the back oi this picture, HARRY GOLD wrote, "This is AI. SLACK whom I
identied in mgr statement given to the FBI 6-2-50." HARRY GOLD signed this state-
ment, which was witnessed by Special Agents T. SCOTT MILIER, JR. and RICHARD E.
BRENNAN. ' -
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"I, G011!, hereby make the following voluntary statement to v
Tl SBUI 1' HILIHI, JR. and RICHARD E. HIENNAN who have identified then-
selves to me as Special Agents of the Federal Bureau oi Investigation,
U. S. Dept. of Justice} No threats or premises have been made me and
I realize that I do not have to make any statenent, and any statement - -
I do make may be used against me in a court of law. I realize that I
have a right to counsel. - _
"In the Fall of 19111 I had been engaged in industrial espionage on '
behalf oi the Soviet Union, since 1936, with the exception of the period
frcm late summer of I938 to the late summer of 19140, at which time I was
attending _college in Cincinnati. '
"In the Fall of 191:1 I was meeting regularly with a man unknown to me
except by the name 9,p 8_All, who was obviously Russian and who had pre-
viously told me that due to the attack on Russia by Germamr, we would
have to once again begin to obtain vital information for the Soviet
Union on a very much intensified scale.
"I went frcm Phila., Penn. to N.I.C. on a Sat. to meet SAM in N.I.
SAM gave me the name of A__L_SLACK as a man who lived in Rochester, NJ.
and worked for the Eastman Kodak Go. and that I must leave that night
to see him in Rochester. This carried the inference, and I understood
it to mean that SLACK would .tu.rnish us with information.
"I traveled by bus, arriving in Rochester Sunday morning and called
SLACK on the telephone. He met me in Rochester. At this time I gave
him a lpep talk on the necessity of aiding the Soviet 1 .sion now that
she had been attacked.
"This began a series of meetings between SLACK and myself in Rochester,
probably once in H.Y., once in Philadelphia, and several times at SLAGIUB
fann in Webster or West Webster, NJ. During this time he gave me in-
formation on processes dealing with Kodachrane, including samples oi
chemicals. On several occasions I gave SLACK the sum oi $200.00, which
money had been given me by SAM. I retained a receipt several times
fran SLACK for this money. SLACK wa.s aware that he was getting this
money in connection with supplying the information to me.
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"The materiel received from SLACK, I turned 9- to BAH, mostly in
Manhattan, -21.1., and probably oncein Buffalo, .1. _
"In connection with the time I met SLACK in Phila. he was returningn-em sene, West ve, where he had seen who was an-.
played by the DuPont C0,. there. SLACK had o ained a process in con-
nection with the making oi_ qylon upon the payment oi $500.00 to $1330.00
"I think that SLACK had suggested the possibility cf obtaining the I
information and I took it up with SAM. SAM then gave me the _a_bov_e
money, which I gave SLACK, with instructions to contact
"In Phile. BLACK gave me part of the nylon process, took part to
Rochester, and later we got together and found that it was very jumbled
and inccmplete. I turned the information over to SAM.
a__--- ' ~.,
"Frcm the time I first met smcx, until the Fall oi 19h2, I had to give
two Ipep talks to smox about aiding the Soviet Union.
"In the Fell oi 191;? SLACK was transterred to the Holaton Ordnance Works
in Kingsport, Tennessee.
"On the instructions oi SAM I made preparations to re-establish contact
with SLACK "in Tennessee. - .
"Prior to this, and even after I saw SLACK in Tennessee, he exhibited
a lack oi willingness to continue supplying us with information.
"I went to Kingsport, Termessee in the early part of 19143 and met SLACK.
Following this I made what I believe 3 more trips to Kingsport and saw
SLACK on 2 of these visits. The last time I went out there I found
1'1-an the occupants of the house where SLACK formerly li-.r.-d that SLACK
had been transferred to Knoxville, Tenn. This lest visit was about
Christmas, 1911.30 -
"On either the 2nd or 3rd contact by me with SIACK at Kingsport, he
supplied me with information relative to the manufacture oi explosive
materiel in the nature of a highly nitrated compound, which was being
made at the I-Iolston Ordnance Works. SLACK also gave me a sample of this
explosive material in 2 rubber containers. There may -have been one more
step, chemical. or physical, involved before the sample I had could ao-
tually be used. SLACK mentioned to me what this final. step was, which
I may have later put on paper.
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P8"I took this infdrmation and sample back to Phila. and after several
days took the information and sample with me to Manhattan, NJ. andturneditovertollll. -~ '
"The mt time I saw smdx was on my um-a visit to Kingsport at which
time he told me that he thought he was going to be transferred to a
highly secret pro3ect which he thought had to do with the manufacture
of poison gas. _
"The principal virtue of the explosive mentioned above was the reduc-
tion in bulk Iran the old type explosive. -
"After 1 ma reported to em the fact that smcx had been transferred,
he shortly thereafter ordered me to forget SLACK. _
"I have not seen SLACK, nor have I heard frcm him since my third visit
to Kingsport, which was in the Fall of 19143. My 2nd visit to Kingsport
must have been in the summer_ of 19343.
"I would like to clarify the 2nd paragraph on page 1 to the extent that
there had been a lapse of approximately six or seven months from the
Spring of l9hl to the Fall of 191:1 during which SAM had indicated that
he had no further use for my efforts. About two months after the attack
on Russia by Germany, SAM once again got in touch w:i.th me and emphasized
the necessity for a greatly accelerated activity in obtaining information.
"With respect to the third paragraph on page 3, I would like to state
the following: the information furnished by GOCiE192lAUR"only carried the
process up to the formation of the Nylon Salt and did not include what
is probably the most important step, the polymerization to the high-
molecular weight polsmaide which is 'Ny1on'; nor were any of the sub-
sequent steps such as the extension of the fibers or their stretching
to orient the molecules fran the random stats.
"I have read the above statement consisting of this and five additional
pages and am signing each page as all the inomation contained therein
is true to the best of my knowledge and belief.
/s/ 1'-uumr com
Philadelphia, Penna.
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'I'.SCO1THII.LEB, JR._ "_ _ _'_ §°§°§ l;Q ~ - .ll
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RICHARD E. samnnn ASpecial Agent ' '
FQBIIO] ' '
Philadelphia, Penna. 6-2-50." _
On June 2, 1950, HARRY GOLD advised that he was of the opinion
that his first contact with AL smcx wee in the fall of 19141; however, in a sub-
sequent interview on June 12, 1950, he changed the date to the fall er 191.0.
D. _S_U_PPI.-MENTAL SICNED92STJjE3I_EN1 O§_§0LD _CONC_E§NING_ §§5FRED D§AN SIikCK_
On July 10, 1.950, HARRY GOLD furnished the following supplanental
signed statement concerning his dealings and associations with ALFRED IEAN SIACK,
to Special Agents '1'. SCOTT IIILIER, JR. and RICHARD E. BRENNAN:
' "July 10, 1950
Philadelphia, Penna.
"I, HARRY GOLD, hereby make the following voluntary statement to
T. SCOTT NILIER, JR., and RICHARD E. BRENNAN who have identified
thenselves to me as Special Agents of the Federal Bureau o£- Inves-
-tigation. No threats orpranises have been made me, and I realize
that I do not have to make any statement, and axw statement I do
make may be used against me in a Court of Law. I realize that I
have a right to counsel. _
"The events I am going to relate had their beginning in the fall of
19140. Since Novmber of 1935. and up until the fall. or 19b0, I had
been engaged in industrial espionage on behalf oi the Soviet Union.
"In the fall of 19b0, I _was meeting regularly with a man unknown to
me, except by the name of SAM, and this man I have since identified
as SEEN SEMENOV. SAM was obviously Russian and he had previously
toId me te R
"In September of 19b0, I went from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, to New
York City, that was on a Saturday, and I met SAM in New York. He gave
me the name of AL SLACK as a man who lived in Rochester, New York, and
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who worked Id! the Eastman Kodak U<1IlPBII7o He also told me, %_didj
that I must leave that very night to see SLACK in Rochester. I ms
given no address, but I was given the man's name. There was the in-
ference, which I gathered from SAM, that SLACK would mrnish me with
information. I travelled by bus, due to the fact that I had not very
much mnds, and I arrived in Rochester on Sunday morning. I looloed up '
SLa0K's mme in the telephone directory and called him on the phone.
I do not believe that I had been given SLAOK's phone number, but I do
recall that SAM had said that SLACK lived in suburban Rochester. SLACK
met me in Rochester after my phone call, and I would like to add here
that when I made the call I identified myself to SIACK by saying that
I was a friend of-_-then I gave the name of either the Russian agent who
had preceded me or of DICJQPHIIGGS; I rather think that it we the name
of the Russian agent that I used. We met in downtown Rochester. SLACK
set the place, which was in front of a rather large movie theater, up
the street from the Seneca Hotel in Rochester. SLACK and I met fairly
early in the morning; I would say about 9:30 or 10:00 A.M., and the
area was cunpletely deserted. a
"The principal event oi the first meeting was the fact that I gave
SLACK a pep talk! on the necessity oi aiding the Soviet Union. This
began a series oi.'meetings between SLACK and myself in Rochester; once
in New York City; once in Philadelphia; and several times at SIACIUB
tam in Webster or West Webster, New York. During this time SLACK. gave
me information on processes dealing with Kodachrome, including samples
oi chemicals. There was also covered the phase oi Kodachrome which '
deals with aerial photography. Also during this period, that is from
September 19110, up until August or September 19b2, I received infome-
tion Iran SLACK on the manufacture of nylon. SLACK in turn had received
this information from a man called HCWARD GOCHENA who was at thattime worlnng for the Du Pent Company at Efwesg Virginia, near Charles-
ton, West Virginia. Also during this period, and I am referring to the
time at which SLACK gathered the information on nylon, SLACK gave me
sane data on two prospective recruits, that is, people who might pos-
sibly be persuaded to give us industrial informatio . The names of thesetwo men were PAUESTARCIEI and JOHQJFKTMPI-RIBS gb' !. STARCI-[ERworked at that t e for the Carbide and Carbon Chanicals Corporation
in their plant on the river at Charleston, West Yirginia; HUMPHRIES, I
believe, worked for the Belle plant of the Du. Pent Ccmpazw. I would
like to add the fact that concerning the nylon, the material which was
obtained irom GOCHENAUR related only to the nylon process as far as the
production of the so-called Nylon Salt, that is the nylon in its raw
tom prior to polymerization to the high molecular weight material
which is nylon, nor were any of the subsequent steps included, such '
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as the ext-£11 of the fibres ircm the molwlggkmr or the sub-
sequent stretching of the fibres to orient the molecules from the
random state. The polymerization was not carried out at Belle, but
the nylon salt was shipped to Seaford, Delaware, 1 would also like
to add that the information as received from GQOHENAUR was in an
extremely Jmbled and haphazard form,"and that SLACK stopped off at
Philadelphia and turned over to me a part of tfifiifomation and he
took the rest with him. This was so that we could each study our
separate sections and would later on meet to write a coherent report-
This editingwas done andwas done duringthe summer of 191:2, The -
work was carried out at SLACK's home on the farm in Webster, New Yorke,
"The section of the information given to SLACK by GOOHENAUB am "hid!
SLACK had in turn given to me occurred about April of 191:2; this happened
in Philadelphia, and was occasioned by SLAGKls stopping off at the North
Philadelphia Station on his way back to Rochester, BLACK in turn having
ccme from Charleston, West Virginia. All of the material which I re-
ceived from SLACK as regards both the Eastman Kodak film process and the
nylon was turned over to Salk There were, however, certain portions of
infomation, including various Eastman Kodak reports, samples of Koda-
chrome film, and a plant operating report on the subject of mrlon which
were not turned over to SAM, This material has since been found in my
home, andI have i it as such to Agents mum and mama of
the Federal Bureau of Investigation, '
"The reason that the materiel was not turned over was that it was later
supplanted by more complete or more detailed information, On five or
seven occasions I gave SLACK sums of money, each of which averaged
about $200.00. These sums were not handed over only on the occasion
of the receipt of information, but were paid regularly and were within
the nature of a retainer, principally to express appreciation for the
work that he had done, This money was handed to me by SAM, and I in
turn gave it to SLACK» '
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Iee regarding ooossgaga, oocmu was paid a sum not less than $500.00,
and not more than $1,000.00 for information which he furnished to smcrr.
This 81111 Of m $500000 II-001,000.00 was given to me by SAM, and I in
turn gave it to SLICK who finally turned it over to GOCHBNAUR, There
mi? have been two payments in all, SIAGK subsequently told me that he
had led ooosarm to believe that the money had cane frcm an industrialist
in the United States to when this nylon information was being turned over
for his own prints use.
"After the ccmplstion of the work on nylon the next event that occurred
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was that SLACK was transferred by Eastman Kodak to Chattanooga,
Tennessee. I did not at first know of thil SIACeK's transfer
took place in the fall of 19142," and I made several trips to Rochester .
in October and November and was unsuccessful in contacting SLAC /gf_,gQFinally, in Deoanber o._f 191:2, I did succeed in contacting LIr§!lgiCK
in Rochester, and she advised me that within several weeks she was _
going to Join AL in Chattanooga, but she did not know what their future
destination would be, except for the fact that AL was certain that he
would soon be transferred elsewhere, . .
"During the period in which I was goirg to see SLACK in Rochester, I
recall on several occasions having stayed at the Powers Hotel in Rochester,
New Yorke Scme time prior to the time that I saw SIACK in August of 191,2,
we had made an arrangement whereby he would manage to keep in touch with
me by lettixg a third person. know of his whereabouts so that I could in
tum get in touch with this third person. The name which he gave me was
oi, I believe, an aunt oi Hrs. SIACK, and the wnmn's name is Mrs. IDA-QQOREE, or possibly the latter 'e' has an accent on it. Hrs. IIOREE lived
near the Eastern Parkway in Brooklyn, New Iork, on, I believe Kingsbridge
Avenue, though possibly it may be Highway or Road. The address, I be-
lieve, h25, though it may have been 525, or 62$-in am case, it was
about a half mile frcm the Eastern Parkway, I called on Mrs. DGIEE in
March of 191:3, and merely told her that 1 was an old friend of we and
wanted to know if she had heard fran him. I told her that my name was
lg-,_L_!ARTIN, and she said that yes, she had gotten a letter and that this
letter was from either AL or Mrs. SLACK with an added note in it stating
that if MARTIN were to call, to give him their present address or where-
aboutse This address which was given to me was in Cincinnati, Ohio.
"At sane behest, I went to see AL in Cincinnati, Ohio, on Derby Day, in
Hay er 1910. When I arrived in Cincinnati I stayed at the Cincinnati
Club. I called SIACK when I arrived in Cincinnati, and T.-rent up to see
him where he lived. He welcomed me, but not with too great enthusiane
He told me that he was now doing expediting work for the Holston Q:-dnance
Works which were then being erected in Kingsport, Tennessee» Thi-B 1&5!-
named rim was a subsidiary of Eastman Kodak Company, or rather of
Tennessee-Eastman. AL said that as soon as expediting was ccmpleted,
and he thought this would take rst three to five months, that he would
then be transferred to Kingsport, Tennessee, He told me that during the
period that he was in Chattanooga that he had worked at one oi the Du
Pent Company's plants; it may have been the Hercules Powder Company,
learning the technique of nitration. I spent about ten minutes in
SLACK's hane, and Mrs. SLACK see-med annclous to leave and kept remind-
ing AL that they had a date at---and I didn't quite catch the name»
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Finsllylmsaidthathe hadto drive hiswife overtosome h-iendis
house, and would I mind going along. I consented. It was not until
we arrived at the |f'riendls' and were actually walking up th walk tothe door of the place that AL told me, You know this m AI is
an F.B.I. Agent, and it was much too late for me to turn back, since
I-IOLIDWAI was etamiing in the doorway in a dressing gown welcoming us.
I was introduced to HOLLOWAY and after staying there about twenty
minutes managed, as unobtrusively as possible, to get AL to drive
me to the Union Station in Cincinnati, after first stopping at the '
Cincinnati Club to pick up my effects. Hrs. SIACK did not go along
with us. I returned to Philadelphia, and subsequently reported to
em in New York to the effect that I had succeeded in contacting SLACK,
and that smcx would shortly_.be transferred to Kingsport, Tennssseei
I inade no mention whatever of my meeting with HOIJILHAI.
"In Septerhber of l9_h3j I went to Kingsport, and by means of the telephone
directory succeeded in locating SLACK. It took me about a two-day-stay
in Kirgsport itself to see SLACK, since BLACK did not appear too arncious
to meet me again. I did succeed finally in seeing him at his heme on
the outskirts of Kingsport in a newly erected war-time developnent.
He advised me that he ms now working for the Holston Ordnance Works,
and was on shift work. I met him once again in the fall of 19113, in
Kingsport, and twice during 191411.. On the occasion of my third visit
to Kingsport in the spring, most likely April of l9l|11, SLACK gave me
the only information which I ever received from him in that area. This
related to details on the manufacture of a highly n:l.trated material
used as an explosive and which was being made at the Holston Ordnance
Works. The particular feature of this material was not the fact that
its destructive potential was greater than that of a conventional
nitrate explosive, but that a much analler bulk, possibly half that
usually anployed, was needed to produce the same effect. In other
words, a given amount, say a pound of this material would produce the
same destructive effect as two pounds oi the more convr. -tional TN1.
This matter was explained to me by SLACK. The material which he gave,
and I am referring to the written material, was rather sketchy because
of the fact that SLACK could not ask too many questions, and his work
was restricted to a certain section of the plant. It was, however,
ccmplete, in that it covered the entire process as well as SLACK knew
it. The material was in the form of three to six typewritten pages,,
with some rough sketches and acme interpolated handwritten notes by
SLACK. I was also given two rubber containers, each of which weighed
about one Pound and which, according to smcx, contained the emlosive
"tend-' H9 9-3-5° I-01¢ I19 that it was perfectly safe to transport the
material, becmise there was one more step needed, either a phygigal 51¢
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a chemical one, or possibly a conbination of both, before the material
could actually be used in producing an explosion.
II would like to add that SLACK told me that the material in the rubber
containers was rst and I believe that the physical step that I have
mentioned included that of drying the material.
"SLACK mentioned to me what this final step consisted of, and I believe
that I later put this fact on paper.
"I took the information and Samples back to Philadelphia, and after
several days, went to Manhattan, New York, and turned the information
and the samples over to a man who was saws successor, and whcm I knew
only as JOHN but whcm I have since idétffied as ANAT_Q[.I___»§_, IAK9. EH-The last'%'e that I saw BLACK was on the ocoasion_cTE"my fourth visit
to Kingsport which was in the very early fall, possibly September 1911,11,
at which time he told me that he thought he was going to be transferred
to a highly secret project which he thought had to do with the manufacture
of poison gas. This project was located nearby in the area of Knoxville,
Tennessee. ' ' I
"I made one lest trip to Kingsport in Decber of 191414, and upon calling
at SLAOK's hone was met at the door by a total stranger who told me that
SLACK m longer lived there, but who did not seem to know arwthing about
his whereabouts. I then called at an adjacent hone and was told there
that SLACK had been transferred to Knoxville, Tennessee.
"I returned to Philadelphia, and then saw JOHN in New York, He told me,
upon my reporting the results of this last trip to Kingsport, Tennessee,
to forget about AL SLACK-
"The last time that I heard from SLACK was sometime early in 1915: Pos-
sibly January or February, certainly not later, and this was in the form
of a letter postmarked at Knoaville, Tennessee, though it even may have
been postmarked Kingsport, but inside, the letter, consisting of one
sheet, was dated as having been written in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, The
letter merely gave SLACK's presentaddress in Oak Ridge, and stated
that he was well and liked his work very much. That was all, and that
was the last time that I have ever heard from SLACK, During my entire -
association with SLACK he knew me under the name of MARTIN, and I do p
not believe that I ever made it clear to him whether MARTIN was used'
as my first or second name, However, I did, on one occasion, give him
the name HARRY GOLD and the address 6623 Kindred Street in Philadelphia,
and told him that he could use this address in the form of a letter drop.
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I did not, however, tell JOHN of this last an-angement, It was at this
last given address on l£inEiFé_d- Street, that I received the letter from
SLACK in_Januar7 or February 19145. _,_,_,_,,_.
"On one of the occasions, and I believe this was an early one, during
which SLACK went to see GOGHENAUR in Charleston, West Virginia, he re-
turned to New York, and OK there, It was then um. 1 intro- '
duced him to ¢ For SEJ=£E2192I !V's name I used only the name
SIMON. This occurred somewhere in the neighborhood of Sth Avenue be- '
tween 30th and h2nd Streets. SEMENOV amused himself after the meeting
and left with SLACK for about five or ten minutes to discuss some matter
concerning which I have no idea, SEMBNOV later apologized for his con-
duct and said that he had only gone through this procedure because he
did not want to embarrass or cause any uneasiness on SIAOK's part by
discussing the matter in front of me, The date of this meeting was in
the late afternoon of Sunday, December 7, 19111. Just as I was seeing
SLACK to the tra:Ln in Grand Central Station, he stopped for a newspaper
and came back all excited, saying that the news had just broken of the
Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
"I have read the above statement, consisting of this and 9 additional
typewritten pages, and am_ signing it because the information is true
to the best of my knowledge and belief»
. /s/ I-IABRI com
July 10, 1950
Phi-15-0, P8111130
"witnessed - "1'. scam mum, .13., Special -Agent F.s.I., V10/soRICHARD E. seamen, Special Agent, FBI, 7/10 50"
Bo _
On June 2 and 3, 1950, during a search of HARRY GOLD's residence
at 6823 Kindred Street, Philadelphia, the following items were obtained, The
items enumerated below are those which pertain to HARRY GOID's associations and
dealings with man: nsan smog: ' _
Item 1, A manila folder containing five handwritten sheets of notes believed
to be in the handwriting of HARRY GOLD. The first two sheets men-
tioned a meeting with "AL," believed to be AL SLACK, regarding -
material furnished to com by AL, which was left ran b19§ICK" for
use by a person identifying himself to be!¢rH£iIARD."
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Itan 30The material listed under Item 1 was shown to HARRY GOLD on June 11,
1950. He said at this time that the material on the two sheets of
unlined white bond paper in this folder was in his handwriting. He
also stated at this time that the "AL" referred to on Page l of thismaterial }s_A1JTlED DEAN SLACK and the "HOIEARD" referred to is HOWARD
"eocssmua' aiid hnxcxv '£§"n.I'c"iiAan mmcs. """ "
GOLD said these two sheets are a rough draft of a report which he was
preparing for SAM and that this report referred to material which
would be of assistance to anyone mo is designated to contact HCHARD
GOCHE1IAI]Ro '
In connection with the other three pages containing handwritten
material, each page beginning as follows: "Design report covering,"
"Baffle plates to inhibit" and "The use of the subject type," GOLD
stated that this material had no connection with ALFRED DEAN SLACK-
A manila folder bearing the notation, "Flue Gas from Smelters,"
containing thirty-nine pages of material, some of which is type-
written, sane handwritten and acme photostats.
GOLD said on June ll, 1950 that the piece of bond paper containing
the message, "The acécmpanying material represents material and data
concerning work which has been dons on the problem of silver recovery
from salvaged photographic emulsion," was probably typed by AL SLACK
and was for the benefit of com and/or sm. com stated that he has
no independent recollection of this material, but that it undoubtedly
was given to him by SLACK for transmittal to SAM. GOLD said he saw
none of his handwriting on any of the documents, and he stated that
material of this type would save a photographic ccmpamr or a country
many hundreds of thousands of dollars in research. He advised that
he does not know shy this folder is in his possession, and could only
say that he either forgot to give it to SAM; told L L5 about it and SAM
was not interested; or SLACK was to do some more v.'"or1c on this material
in this folder but never got around to it, or SLACK procured more up
to date information on the silver recovery process which outdated the
referenced material-
This item is a 8118-ll white card, about two and one-halfinches by
one and one-half inches, containing handwriting in pencil. On
June ll, 1950, GOLD admitted that all the hamhwriting appearing
thereon is his, with the exception of the date "6-3-SO" followed.
by two sets of initials and the numeral notation "29-ll." GOLD
said that this card definitely refers to GOLD's dealings with SLACK,
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Item 11.
Item 5,and that he is almost positive that this card was written by him when
he was receiving instructions frcm SAM as to what he should obtain
from SLACK, ' ' ' ' '
Iith reference to Paragraph l on the card, GOLD stated that acetyl
butyrate must be sane type of solvent for dissolving film, either "
for film recovery or film fomaticm With reference to Paragraph 2
on the Gard, GOLD said he could not state whether this dealt with
Kodachrome. With reference to Iaragraph 3 on the card, GOLD tated
that this does refer to Kodachrome. With reference to Paragraph 1;,
which states, "In other fields anything in his reach of military
importance," G-OIJD said that this notation probably meant in fields
of photogaprny other than Kodachrome, '
GOLD stated that with reference to the time "September 19140," it
refreshes his mory to the extent that possibly he did know SLACK
in the fall of l9h0a However, GOLD said there was the possibility
that the date September 19140 refers to a date that SLACK turned
over the information described to GOLD's predecessor in Soviet
espionage, who then turned it over to SAM or some other Russian
contact, and that SAM was merely passing this information on to
GOLD so that the latter could refresh SLACK's recollection as to
what he had given his contact. -
This itan is a book entitled "Genesee Fever." GOLD advised on
June ll, 1950 that he definitely recalls that AL SL~1CK_or his wife
lent him this book because he had a long coach ride returning to
Philadelphia, When GOLD saw the notation on the inside cover,
"The SLAOKs - March, 19113," he stated that possibly this book was '
lent to him on one of GOID's trips to Kingport, Tennessee, where
the SLAGKs were residing at that time.
Aomrding to GOLD, a notation on Page B3 does not mean anything to
GOLD except that he stated that the observation is, true, that black
absorbs light. He stated it is not in his handprinting a.nd he hasno idea may-yqata is unless the author of the andprinted materialwas referring to the author of the book, G1!-.R,l! GAR.MHh A pencilled
circle around the word "Lyons" on Page 19?, according to GOLD, means
nothing to him.
This itan is a be 1_<,en1-.1+,1e67§'r'~1-Tm Double Eagle to Red mg" byGeneral P. %;3l&|Sl92?.lFF. On June"I1, 1950 this book was exhibited
to GOID, who stated that it was either given or lent to him by AL
SLAGKO He also stated that the printing on the inside cover, "A, D.
smcx 1935," is not in his handprinting.
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Item 60GOID states he believes SIACK gave him this book in Rochester,
New York, and that it may have been at the time when both were
working on the material which they received from slam G
A manila folder bearing upon the outside the printed name, "DICK
HRICBS-" This folder contained about sixty pages of materiaI re-
Iating to various chemical processes dealing in part with the handling
of urea and in part with discussion of film processes and tests at the
Kodak Ounpawe
The urea material was stapled together with a typewritten cover
sheet reading:
"Feb; .
The report and data attached to this sheet have been
assembled mm the .ef£ects of the late 13,»?mi1ees and
- are being submitted in that they may be of sane value."
On June 11, 1950, upon being exhibited this folder, eon: stated
that the handprinting on the cover is his and that the material
was undoubtedly given him by SLACK. In connection with the typ-
ing that appears on the firstmTé et in this folder, beginning with
this statement, "The report and data attached, 81330;" GOLD said.
this may have been typed by SLACK, but me denitely not typed
by him. The second, third and fourth pages in this folder, con-
sisting of unruled, white paper, contained handwriting referring i
to "Jacket for silver tubing of urea converter." GOLD said that
this is not in his handwriting and believes it may have been written
by $IJ1CKl _ p
GOID went on to advise that the only material inside this folder
which contains his handwriting is a notation on a skeet of paper
attached to a colored card frcm the Paramount West Coast Laboratory»
On the sheet underneath this card is handwritten, "Get explanation
of Te" GOLD said that at this time he has no idea what the above
notation refers to, but stated that it is in his handwriting. He
did say that this notation might possibly refer to getting an em-
planation of Type E, it being noted that "Type E" is printed in the
center of this card. -
0-DID said that this entire folder was given to him by SLACK for '
eventual transmittal to SAM. He explained that he may have foxh
gotten to give it to SAM or he may have told SAM about it and
the latter was not ixerested. '
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Item 7. A manila folder bearing the following caption upon the outside: -
Item B__ "Ir. BAYBIJET __ W h __ _
' Dope Inventories Usage and Losses ' _
31-<1 Period 19142" ' '
This folder contains twelve graphs, eleven of which are block stamped
with the date April 22, 19142. The twelfth graph carries the heading,
"Plasticizer Inventories Usages and Losses 3rd Period l9h2."
On June ll, 1.950, HARRY GOLD examined instant binder and stated it
was undoubtedly given him by SLACK, and he believes that the latter
gave it to him in Kingsport, Tennessee. GOID stated that the photo-
static material within the binder refers to a solvents inventory for
film processes and 1i]m_scrap recoveryq GOLD also stated that this
binder was probably taken directly from Eastman files, He said that
the name "BAEEUTT" on the front cover means absolutely nothing to him.
According to COLD, he did not know why he was still in possession of
this binder. He added that he does not know whether he forgot to give
it to SAM or whether he told SAM about it and the latter was not in-
terested in ito _ 1
'I'his item is e manila envelope oi Eastman Kodak Gcmpany, Rochester,
New York, with the notation "_§A_IL_S__L_aC§, Building 1.10" on the ironto
This envelope contains twenty-nine pieces of out-up aerial photo-
graph, which appearsto be an industrial plant inasmuch as it re-
flects large buildings, docks where large boats are moored, and
railroad yards with numerous tracks» -
According to GOLD, it is obvious that the photograph had originally
been out up with e large paper cutter and he expressed the possibility
that it was salvaged frcm waste. GOLD said possibl; SLACK gave him
the pieces and told him that it should be put together He stated
that undoubtedly this material came from SLACK, and he definitely
recalled that Sal! had exhibited an interest in the possibility of
using Kodachrome in aerial photography. GOLD cannot recall whether
SAM had initiated the interest or whether SLACK had mentioned the .
possible use of Kodachrcme in this matter to GOID to see what he
eqqm 391-, an 11;, HARRY GOLD stated that he does not recall the photo-
graph at all, but he said that SLACK may have given him the material
and he may have forgotten to turn it over to SAM, or possibly SLACK
later gave him better examples of aerial photography in Kodachrome
which GOLD gave to SAM, and that possibly GOLD forgot to destroy
instant item. . .
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Itm 9,A brown manila folder bearing no caption on the outside and containing
titty-nine items, captioned, "subconference oI'October 2, 1936 through
-Subconferenoe of April l., 1938.! In addition to these items, there
are also typewritten copies ct: "y H
"Report or Plate Coating meets on Modified 'a-21 Dope"
"Report of Plate Coating rests on Modified s-21 Dope .
OM-01161? 23; 1932" O - ' .
There are also seven paphs which apparently concern themselves ilith 'experiments conducted in connection with G, Gelatin. There is A?
a photostatic copy oi a report of "Improved Kodatra.ceI by Hr, 1 NDUOCI
dated March 31, 1935.
Also a copy of "Minutes of Heating to Discuss Change to Low Viscosity
Linters for a. P. Cotton," dated September 27, 1933. Also a report
oi "Method of Operating Machines about the Upper Explosive Limit," .
dated July 2?, 1932, Also a two-page memo entitled, "Proposed
Changes V Windups for Machines Loc__ed in Building 20," dated
November Z5, 1935o- There is also a five-page report entitled,
"Chemical Plant Park," dated December 1.9, 1.935, addressedto Ire E, Building I46. There is also a three-page memo
entitled, onference for Discussion of Positive vs. Tendency Drives
for R G Machines - November 12, 1935." There is also a two-page
typewritten memo dated November 29, 1935, bearing the pencilled
notation, "Subconference," in the upper left hand corner.
GOLD stated on June ll, 1950 that the handwritten notations on these
subconrerence reports appear to be the handwriting oi _a_l,__Sj_.at'.§§,
Throughout these reports mention is made oi various chaaicals by
number, to wit: Chemical no. 5, Chemical no. 6, and Gusnical so. 38,
and in some places the chemical is identified by its actual name, such '
as sodium chloride, GOID stated that these are obviously Eastman
code numbers for certain Ohtlials
Accordirg to GOID, SLACK gave him all the documents contained in
this manila folder, although he has no present recollection of his ' .
having done this or oi ever having seen them before, However, GOLD
states that there is no doubt in his mind that the material was
given him for transmittal to BAH. He could not eacplain slur this
material was still in his possession, but offered the following .
two possibilities: 1! SLACK may have suhnitted the referenced
material to GOLD but later got more up to date processes, and that
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~TrH6'Ti'ansmi.tted. them to SAM and he failed to returnthe outmoded
processes or information to SLACK; 2! the possibility that SLAIJK
was to do acme more work on the material so that an explanation
copld be given by GOLD to SAM concerning the materiel. GOLD stated
definitely, however, that there was no possih!.1.ity that the material
had. been given to SAM and subsequently returned to GOLD; Also, GOLD
said he never took out any of the material from a package which we
to be transmitted to SAM, and never discussed such material with
SAM at the time of their meetings. .
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, 1 IGOIIJ, on June l, I950, advised Special Agentsfl. SOUIT HILIEI,
JR» a1id'RIOHARD Ea HIENNAN that prior to_his departure for Santa Fe, New Mexico,
to see FUGIB in June of 19145, he met his Russian contact, _J_ _!_I;IN_, in a bar on
Third Avenue in New York City, He said that JOHN gave him at this time a slip
of paper containing a name and address in Albuquerque and told GOLD to contact
this person while he was in Albuquerque, He said that JOHN advised that this
individual would have iraformation for GOLD, and JOHN gave GOLD $500-00 to paythis individual, JOHN also told GOLD that he was to see this unknown individual
after his visit to FUCHS. "
GOLD advised thatupon his arrival in New Mexico, he went first
to see EUOI5 and returned that evening to Albuquerque from Santa Fe, and attempted
to contact the unknown individual, but found no one at home. GOLD said as a re- '
sult of this, he stayed overnight in Albuquerque but on the next morning, which
was a Sunday, he went to the address supplied him by JOHN and at this time he met
the unknown individual,
GOID said this was the first time that he knew the unknown in-
dividual was a soloder, GOLD_advised that this individual was a non-cmnnissioned
officer, either a Corporal or a Sergeant, GOLD said he returned to this house '
again in the afternoon, and at this time the unknown American soldier gave GOLD
an envelope containing several sheets of handwritten or typewritten paper coni-
taining information pertaining to the division in which the soldier was employed .
at Los Alamos, New Mexico, GOLD said he did not know how important this infor-
mation was, At the time the soldier furnished GOLD the information, he was
handed the $500-O0. GOLD said the soldier took the money and said that he needed
it badly. HARRY GOLD has advised that he has no recollection of obtaining a re-
ceipt from the soldier and believes that he did not do sot
HARRY GOLD advised that he used the name FH.".NK ICESSIJER in his
meeting with the soldier. He is not certain about the name KESSIEI, but he def-
initely ranembers that he used the first name FRANK. GOLD has advised that al-
though he was given the name of the soldier at this time, he has oanpletely for-
gotten its GOLD said that he believed this soldier to be a native of the Bronx
or Brooklyn, New York, and stated that the soldier talked with a definite New
York accents
GOLD also recalls that this soldier told him that he and his
wife were returning to New York on furlough about Christmas time, and he gave
GOLD the address of his mother-in-law or father-in-law in New York City for a
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possible mture meeting. GOLD said, however, he never made such a meeting and
saw this unknown American soldier on only this one occasion. GOLD also said
that this soldier's wife was present at the time oi their meeting, though he
believes the wife was sent into the kitchen or bathroun when the actual busi-
ness was transacted. GOID said the soldier's wife had only recently arrived
in Albuquerque, and it was his impression that the American soldier had not
been there too many months. He said this couple had no children.
01'! J1-111$ 2. 1950, HARRY GOLD furnished the following signed
statement to Special Agents RICHARD E. BRENNAN and T. SGO'1"I' MILLER, JR. concern-
ing his associations with an unidentified American soldier in Albuquerque, NewHence: » '
"Philadelphia, Penna.
June 2, 1950
"I, HARRY GOID, make the following voluntary statement to RICHARD E.
HRENNAN and T. SCOT1 MILLER, JR., who have identified themselves to
me as Special Agents of the Federal Bureau oi Investigation, U. S.
Department oi Justice. No threats or promises have been made to me,
and I realize that I do not have to make a statement, and any state-
ment I do make may be used against me in a court of Law. I realize
I have a right to counsel.
"As of the Spring of 1.9115 I had been engaged in espionage on behalf
of the Soviet Union, since 1936. There were two lapses in my espionage
activities, one frcm the late Summer of 1938 to late Summer of 19140,-
dnring which time I was attending college in Cincinnati, Ohio. The
second lapse was fran the Spring of 191:1 to the Fall of 19141. In the
Spring, SAM, who was my Russian contact at the time, told me I was
not needed anymore. In-the Fall, however, SAM told me that now that
Russia had been attacked, we must resume our work on an intensified
B08160
"In the Spring of 1915, I was meeting regularly with a man unknown
to me except by the name of JOHN, who was obviously a Russian, and
who had succeeded SAM as my Russian contact.
"Scmetime around Hay of 19145 I mg JOHN in, I believe, a bar on- Third
Ave, New York City. This-meeting was to discuss plans for my depar-
ture in June or 1916 for Santa Fe, New Mexico. I was going to s.-in-ta
Fe on the instructions o£'JOI-IN. During this meeting JOHN supplied me
with a name and address of a man in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and in-
structed me to contact this man while I was there. I believe JOHN told
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to contact tbQ:e.n's wife in case the man was Q there. _JOI-HI told
me that I would receive infronation frcm this man, which I'-iFa_s'_to
deliver tc JOHN. JOHN gave me an envelope containing about $500.00.
I was instructed to give this money to the man in Albuquerque in pay- -
ment for the information. I was instructed to give this sum to him
onlyif he would indicate a need for funds. _ __ _
-- . I --...-,-r ...;- - _ _
"I left Philadelphia in June of 19145 and went to Albuquerque, and
then Santa Fe, N.H. On my return from Santa Fe to Albuquerque on
a Saturday evening, I tried unsucoessiulIl.y to contact this man on
that evening. I was informed that he was not at hone at that time.
I again went to his house on the next morning, Sunday. At this time
I met the man. I cannot recall this mania name, but I believe he "
lived on the second or third floor of a house, the exact address of
which I cannot remember. It was, however, scmewhere north of East
Central Ave, one or two blocks north, and somewhere between N. High
Street and N. Pine Street.
"1 introduced myself to nus man as either mamgrcmsxm or mmQJARTIN I cannot recall which. I used some form of recogztion,
involving the first name of a man, and stating that he had sent me.
This individual recognized the password.
"At this time I discovered to my surprise that this individual whom
I was contacting was in the U. S. Arngr, and was, I believe, a Tech-
nician Fifth Grade. His rating may have been higher, however. This
man was not over 25 years of age, perhaps even younger, about 517",
sturdily built, dark brown or black hair, which was either curly or
bushy, hrovm eyes, snub nose, even teeth, a wide mouth, and an open,
pleasing countenance. I believe from things he said that his hcme was
in New York City, possibly the Bronx or Brooklyn, not Manhattan. I
also met his wife. She was about 5'3" and nomally good lookzing, and
neither excessively stout or slender. Her name may have been RUTH,
although I am not sure. _
"I returned to this house later in the afternoon, at which time he
gave me an envelope containing three to five pages of written infor-
mation, and possibly one sketch. This information dealt with, I believe,
a generalized description of the area in Ins Alamos, N.M., in which he
worked. There may also have been a sketch of sane bit of structural -
equipment or a machine. '
"I believe, from what he said, that he worked in one of four jobs at
Les Alamos: l - As a draftsman. 2 - A5 a machinist. 3 - As an elec-
trician. h - In the physics layatory. '
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"At the time that this man gave me the envelope containing the infome-
tion, I gave him the approximately $500-O03 he had expressed a need
formdstoenablehiswifetostaynearhime
"During this conversation that I had with this man, tentative arrange-
ments were made for a second meeting between I130 This meeting was to
occur in New York City during a hirlough which he expected to get at
Christmas time 19115» I was to call this manls father-in-law, in the
Bronx, NJ; The father-in-1a_;1r_s_ first name was, or may have bean,
PHILIP. This meeting never occurred, on the orders of JOHN, who
seemed to have lost interest when I mentioned the matter to him in _
the late .taJ.'l. of 19163 I have never seen this soldier nor his wife
since, nor have I heard from then. '
"I took the information which I received fron this man in Albuquerque,
and turned it over to JOHN upon my return to New York. The actual
transfer of the information from me to JOHN occurred in Brooklyn, in
the neighborhood of Metropolitan Ave!
/s/ may sow
. 6/2/50
RICHARD E. HIENNAN, Special Agent, FBI, Justice
To S. IIII-IE-, JRI FQBQII. Justice
"I have read the above statement consisting oi this and five other l
pages and am signing each page as all the information contained therein
is true to the best of my knowledge and belief. _
. /s/ HARRY com
Philadelphia, Penna.
June 2, 1950.
Witnessed:
RICHARD E. BRENNAN .
Special Agent,
FOBIII, Justice
Philadelphia, Pa.
June 2, 1950
Tn MINER, IJRO
Special Agent
FOBII' Justice
M130, P811110June 2, 1950 "
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B GOLDZQ DEG.H'I'ION OF ICAN_SOLDIEBiAND HIE -'
' ' on June 2, 1950, mum com advised Special Agents T. soon
MILLER, JRe_ and RICHARD E. EIENNAN that his unknown American soldier contact
could be described as follows: ' '
- Age 25 youthful appearance!
Height 511" approximation!
Weight 170 poundsHair Dark and curly V " '
Eyes Light or brown
Facial charac- Nose snub, jaw square, mouth semen-hat
teristics broad, teeth good and regular -
Religion Jewish In this respect, GOLD advised
' that the soldier and his wife mentioned
the difficulties in finding a Jewish
type delicatessen in Albuquerque,
New Mexico»!
' COID's description of the soldier's wife is somewhat less
specific. He described her as being approximately 5'3" in height and good looking,
as well as possibly having the first name of R2U'1'He - __
Ce _SUSP§L'1,_DAII,1l GREENGLASS '
Albuquerque Confidential Informant '1-1, of known reliability,
advised on June 2, 1950 that a logical suspect in this matter was one DAVID
GRENCLASS, who with his wife, RUTH, had a small efficiency apartment at 209
North High Street, Albuquerque, during the period of GOLD's contact. '1-1 -
advised that this house has been remodeled since 19145.
On June 6, 1950, HARRY GOLD was exhibited pictures of DAVID
GREEMLASS by Special Agents RICHARD E. BRENNAN and T. SCOTT ELLER, JR! At
this time GOLD advised that he was not able to effect any ideatification of
GREENGLASS fran the current photographs of him; however, GOLD advised that a
picture of CHEENGLASS in which he wore an acadanic gown, without a hat, resembled
to a great extent the individual whcm he had contacted in Albuquerque in 19145.
This latter picture was taken of GREIBLASS in 191:0. In connection with the
pictures of GREBIGIASS and those of his wife, GOID stated that he could not make
a definite identification fran any of these pictures, He did state, however, -
that there was scme resanblance between and the unknovm American
soldier e wife whom he had met in 19115.
' 1 On June 7, 1950, HARRY GOLD was shown current motion pictures
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oi houses in areas in Albuquerque, New Mexico, that coincided with the general
directiom furnished by him in reaching the residence of his American soldier
contact. In these films COLD selected the house at 209 North High Street,
Albuquerque, New Mexico, as that most closely resembling the house he visitedinJune or 191.5. A ' A " " ~- -
However, GOLD advised that he believed the house at 209 North
High Street, Albuquerque, New Mexico, had undergone recent renodeling. He said
that he was unable to males a positive identification of this house as the one he -
had visited in June of 1.9145. .
9- BFTTLE 1D,3"3lFl°ATI°N.QF,PAVP1_J aG3EEmm§5 B113 -Q o .
On June 15, 1950, Special Agents T. SCOTT MILLER, JR. and
RICHARD E. EIENNAN exhibited to HARRY G011! a series of pictures of DAVID GREENGLASS
taken in about 191.5. In this group of pictures, com identified a posogiépo or
DAVID GREEBCIASS as being identical with the American soldier he contacted in
June of 19115 in Albuquerque,"New iiexioo. The photograph selected by GOLD was
one of DAVID GREENGLASS and his wife, RUTH GREENGLASS, standing on the steps of
the house at 209 North High Street, Albiiiii1er&;i1e}"1Tei h&exi.co. This photographbore ar°1kAlhu.querque, New Mexico camera shop date stamp of November 8, 19115 on
15116 be 0 '
HARRY GOLD virote the following statement on the back of this
photograph of DAVID GREENGLASS and his wife: . ' '
"'I'h:!s is the man I contacted in Albuquerque, mm. in June, 19b5, on
instructions iron cw Soviet Espionage Superior, J01-IN. The man in
the picture gave me information relative to his work at Los Alamos,
New Mexico, which information I later gave to JOHN."
E. § AL gsxogmn sfrirrammg or 991.11 0Q1920§I_mI_1~ro mym CREENCLASS
HARRY com on July 10, 1.950, furnished Special Agents T. scorr
MILLER, JR. and RICHARD E. BRENNAN the following supplemental information concern-
ing DAVID CiR.EE1*£3I-AAS3, in the form oi a signed statement:
g "July 10, 1950 .
_ _ Philadelphia, Penna.
"I, HARRY GOLD, hereby make the following voluntary statement to
'1. SCOTT MILLER, JR., and RICHARD E. BRENNAN, who have identified _
themselves to me as Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Inves-
tigation. No threats or promises have been made me, and I realim
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that I do not have to make any statement, and any statement I do make
may be used against me in a Court of Law. I realize that I have a
right to counsel. "
=1 would like to add the following to the statement dated June 2, 1950,
which I gave the above named agents relative to the unknown individual
contacted in Albuquerque, New Mexico, in June oi 19145. Since the above
statement was made I have identified a picture shown to me by Agents
MILLER and BRENNAN, and when I have been told is _DAVID as '
being the same man I previously described a being"'tEe'Un1mown G.I.
when I met in early June oi 3.91:5. in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
"I have also recalled the fact that my means of identifying myself
to GR.EEI92IlLASS and of his verifying this identification ms by means
of two torn pieces oi paper of an irregular shape,- but which matched.
when put together. One such piece was in my possession, and had been
given to me by JOHN, and the'other piece was in GREENGLASSI possession.
"During a conversation I had with _h.rs. on the occasion of
my first meeting, that is the morniFg' :Eéeti n'g, at the GREENGI.-ASS apart-
ment in Albuquerque, Mrs. GREELBLASS told me that when they returned to -
New York on C=REE'iNGLASS's expected mrlough, which was to take place about
Decenber of 19115, that I could contact than by getting in touch with a
relative oi Mrs. REENGLASS. I believe the man questioned was supposed
to be Mrs. GREENGLASS' father, that is the iather-in-law of DAVID GREEN-
GIASS, and I had previously stated that I believed his name to be PHILIP
and that I believed in the Bronx, New York. Since that time I have cane
to the belief that the more likely possibility may have been that this
man was either an uncle or a relative of Mrs. GREENGLASS, and that his
name may have been JULIUS. I am certain that I was given a telephone
number, but I am not certain as to whether I was also given an address.
There is also the possibility that the location in New York may have
been the Bronx. Mrs. GREENGLASS also told me that just yrior to her
leaving New York, in April of 19h5, that she had talked with JULIUS
and had explained this arrangement to him. '
"I had been instructed by JOHN before leaving Albuquerque, that there
was the possibility that this man might not be in Albuquerque, but that,
certainly, his wife would be there and that in such an event, that she
would turn over to me an envelope containing the information on atanic
energy, and that in turn, should she exhibit any need for money, that
I was to give her the envelope containing the $500.00. Further, JOHN
had explained to me that GREENGLASS's wife was just as reliable as he
was in conducting such an affair.
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II would like to add also that during the major part of my conversation
with GIEENGIASS, vhich conversation included the fact that he was work-
ing at Les Alamcs; the fact that he was going to propose a possible re-
cruit and which I pranptly discouraged!; and the actual transfer of
the information which occurred on the occasion of the second meeting
of about five minutes duration on that same day, but in the afternoon,
that Mrs. GREENELASS was present during all of this. I. believe, how-
ever, that when I gave the money to GREEIGIASS, that Mrs. GREENGIASS
may have been in the tiny kitchen oi their very all apartment.
"I believe that when Hrs. GREENGLASS returned to the roan, that GREEMLASS
may have made some mention oi the fact that I had given him sane money.
Also at this time, and in Mrs. GREEN3I.ASS's presence, he gave sane in-
dication thet the sum might not be sufficient to see then through for
a very extended period and he also indicated that it would be very de-
sirable if he could, on a later date, get more money. I believe that
at this time I indicated to him that I might be back in Albuquerque in
Septanber of 19115; and that if this event did transpire, I would bring
along some more money for him. There was also stated the matter that
had I not brought the $500.00 along with me that it would have been
impossible for Mrs. GREENGLASS to continue to stay in Albuquerque any
longer. - ~
"I have read the above 3 page statement and am signing each page because
all oi the information therein is true to the best of my knowledge and
belief. '
/s/ mam: com: ~
July 10, 1950 Phila-., Penna.
witnessed: _ -
T. SCOTT MILLEQ, JR., F.B.I. Justice
RICHARD E. BRENNAN, Special Agent, FBI
July 10, 1950, Philadelphia, Pa."
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A. mum. 1-mermc
' On J... 3, 1950, a white card approxiniately 2" 1 3" in
size, that contained this cryptic message on one side:
"non l0 p.m., n s
Pontiac sed 2
ask him abouend7at ave. oneeardkgray
end regards from Helen
aomi and his baby girl"
was secured during a search of HARRI GOLD's residence.
HARM GOLD, ihen shown this card on June 15, 1950 by SAS
T. SCOTT MILLER, JR. and RIGHARD E. BRENNAN, said it contained instructions
relative to his first contact of ABRAHAM EOTHHAN. 'GOLD' detailed com-
ments concerning this card are set out under Section IV, sub-section C of
this report. _
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HARRY GOLD on July 11, 1950 furnished to Special Agents .
'1. SCOTT MILLER, JR and RICHARD E. BREQNAN the following sigzed statement
incorporating his knowledge of the espionage hietorgr of ABRAHAM HRO'1'I-iM.A.H:
- ' "July 11, 1950 .
. Philadelphia, Penna.
"I, HARRY GOLD, make the following voluntary statement to
RICHARD E. BRENNAN and '1. SCOT! MILLER, JR., who have identi-
fied themselves to me as Special Agents of the Federal Bu-eau
of Investigation. No threats or promises have been made to me
and I know that aw statement I make can be used against me in
a court of law. I have been advised of my right of counsel
and I know that I do not have to make amr statement at all.
"Some time i.n the middle or late August of the year 191.1, aw
,-PHFilei'65-l923¥ 0
official." He did not elaborate on this except that a week '
or so after his first announcement in the middle of August,
he told ms of an arrangement for meeting this man. About a
week later he told me that the proposed meeting was off. I
believe that the reason that he gave was that there was a
Jewish holiday, -the Day of Atonement, coming up, and that the
man in question orhis immediate family were religious. He '
also, at this time, gave me instructions for a later meeting.
This meeting, I believe, was to be in the downtown part of
New York, somewhere in the neighborhood of Dey or Church Street
I appeared for this meeting, but it did not take place. There
is some little doubt in aw mind whether or not this or a
following meeting, which also did not take place, actually
occurred in the order that I have given them, but in any case
to summarise: ' ' . l -
"There were three proposed meetings; one which §1i92_H_, himself,
called off, and two others, one of which may have been called
off by SAM, and to one of which I definitely went and the man
in question did not show up. Now, up to this time, he had not
been described to me Hy name. There was merely the statement
that he was an important Government official, an engineer. I
believe that the third meeting was near a Child's Restaurant,
somewhere in the Broadway Distriot. About the third weak in
September, SAM gave me a set of instructions for meeting this
man. '.l'his meeting was to take place between 6th and 7th
Avenues, somewhere about 26th or 27th Street. The man in
question was to be in a car, the license number of which had
an Ni in it as I recall, and I have since been told by the
Investigating Agents, or rather I have been shown a r emorandum
card on which is written, in my handwriting, the license number
219088. Also on the memorandum card was the fact that I was
to ask about this man's wife, NAOMI, and to ak about his baby
daughter, and I was to bring greetings from 'HELEN'. I was
told, at this time, that the man's name was EENWM BROTI-IRAN.
This meeting took place as planned on a Mond w
late in September. I definitely recall that the occasion of
this meeting was also the night of the JOE LOUIS-LOU NOVA
heavyweight fight. BROTHHAN was late for this meeting by
about 10 or 15 minutes, and finally came along this street
in the middle twenties, between 6th and 7th Avenues, in his
car. I spotted the license number. It was verydark and as
-30- ¢
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is usual in the Fur and Garment district, there was no one
there at all. I opened the door and slipped into the car
beside him. He seemed a little startled" for a moment;
possibly he thought that this was someone hostile to him.
I then gave him the greeting and identified myself as FRANK
KESLER. Just about this time, the tight came on, and we
Et".Eiths car and heard it on BRCfIHMAN's car radio through-
out the two or three rounds that the fight lasted. We then
drove around Ior a little while, possibly 15 or 20 minutes,
during which time I tried to appear as genial as possible.
BOTHHAN asked a tow questions about BELEN___and he also inquired
about WORN. BRUIHHAN told me that HELEN was the person who
had proceeded me and was the person to whom he had given in-
formation. He also told me that JOHN had proceeded I-IELEN.
Our later conversation took place in a Bicktord Restaurant,
that same night, and was an exceedingly lengthy one. This
Bickrord Restaurant, by the way, is located on, I believe,
the west side of either 6th or 7th Avenues, about 3l.th Street,
but below L2nd Street. '
"At this time, RRQTI-MAN told me that he had not gotten along
too well with I-!ELEiTa'.ii'I gathered from his conversation that
the principal difficulty was the fact that 1-[EZI..F.'92I was not
technically trained. He also told me that he worked for the
Hendrick Hamifacturing Oompamr of Carbondale, Pennsylvania
and New York City. He also told me that he had gotten along
very well with JOHN. The conversation may have lasted as
long as three hours. I believe that it broke up sometime
around one o'clock, because I believe that I have a recol-
lection of Just making a"1:25 or 1:35 train back to Phila-
delphia. BROIHMAN, also, upon the occasion or this first
meeting with him, said that he was glad that I was a chemist
because he believed that it would make possible the occasion
of him again funneling information through me to the Soviet
Union. This information, I understood, was to cover the various
processes on which BROTHMAH was doing design work for the
Hendrick Manufacturing Company.
"I have stated the phrase, 'on which BR Y1I-IHAN was doing
design world because, from his conversation, I gathered that
he was in complete charge of all design work at the Hendrick
Company. The rest of the conversation, and as I have said,
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this was a quite lengttw one, concerned BROTHHAl!_himself.
There was a good deal of background mat.eH51T'i1-mluaing the
fact that he had won a scholarship, a Harkness scholarship,
to Columbia University, at I believe, the age of lh. -It also
included the story that one of his uncles, on, I believe, his
mother's side, was supposed to have gotten him a scholarship
for the City College of New York, but had refused to -use aw '
influence to do so. Then BROTPIHAN related with great pride
and satisfaction the fact that in s competitive examination,
he had wound up first, and had obtained the coveted I-larkness
scholarlhip, which not only included tuition to Columbia
College, but also included maintenance, books, and possibfw
some additional hands.
"There was some talk about BROTHI-IAN's daughter, who was then
not much more than an infant. This child I discovered to be
ELSA. This I believe, covers the extent of the matters dis-
cussed during ny first meeting with ABE -BRCTHMAN.
"As I have stated before, I told E°»OTI-[MAN that I was a
chemist and told him that aw name was FRANK KFSSLER, but I did
not tell him where I lived except to indicate that it was not
in New York City. We made arrangements, or rather, I set the
arrangement for a second meeting. This was to take place :l.n
Child's Restaurant on Columbus Circle, the west side of Columbus
Circle, that is. It was to be approximately 8:00 3.121., and was
to take place, I believe, on Thursday or Friday of the week
following our first meeting. This second meeting took place,
but E101!-IMAN was about an hour and a half late. During this
time, I made several calls to his office at the Hendrick
Company. I 1.-mew that they were in the downtown part =1 New
York City, somewhere around Church Street.
"I neglected to state that on the occasion of the first meeting
H£OTI-I2-IAN gave me the phone number of the Hendrick Company, which
I believe, was Barclay 9 - something. '
"I made two, possibly three calls to BROTHI-IAN at the office,
on each of which occasion, he said that he was leaving im-
mediately and would be up to Child's within 20 minutes.
Finally, he did arrive, as I have stated, about an hour and
a half late. I was a little bit irritated by this time because
-32-
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I did not like the attention which the waiter and waitresses
in Ch.'lJ.d's'were paying to me. During this period I consumed
several drinks and had a very light snack. when BROTHMAN did
arrive, he did not apologise, but I did not make any inquiry -
concerning the reason wtnr he was late. I had been told by BAH
to go very easy with this man and not to antagonize him, as
others in the past had gotten into quite violent arguments
with him-on the subject of his tardiness.
"I had reported the results of my September meeting with ABE
to SAM, and I had been instructed that on the occasion of the
second meeting, that I was to give BROTHMAN a list, verbal I
believe, of various subjects in which the Soviets were interested.
I cannot recall any of the details of this list, but in addition
to this there was the matter of cleaning up a good, deal of the
material which he had previously given to HELDI, but in a very
fragmentary form. I told EOTHMJ-N about this matter, but he did
not seem too receptive; he hardly even nodded agreement. The
principal subject matter of the second conversation had to do
with his difficulties in working for Hendrick and also para-
doocically, again how glad he was to know me so that he could
again begin giving information. He did promise that on the
occasion of the third meeting that he would have information
for me. What this information was to be, I cannot now recall.
This, I believe covers the subject matter of my second meeting
with ABE BROT__HIi§N,.
"There is one thing that/I have on my mind relative to the first
conversation with BROTHHAN in September, and that was the fact
that I told BROTHMAN that the power of the German Amy now
sweeping, at that time, through Russia was not to be underes-
timated; that here was probably the greatest offensive force
that the world ever had seen. I mention this point because I
wanted to point up to ABE the necessity for obtaining information
for the Soviet Union, particularly information of military value.
ABE agreed with me as far as the striking power of the German
Army went, and said that he was glad to see that here was someone
who did not brag as did the Daily Worker of the victories of the
Soviet forces, when actually they were being driven back on all
fronts. In connection with this statement, there also occurs
to me the fact which I have previously not mentioned, and that
is that BROTIIIIAN often used to ask me for the true story or-._
_92
-33..
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inside dope on what was -many happening on the Russian-
German front. He evidently believed, and I let "him go on
thinking so, that I had sources higher up of inside information.
To continue for a moment on this subject of inside information,
I had been told by SAM that under all circumstances I was to be
in charge of any activity with and that I was to pre-
tend to know the answer no matter what question BROTHHAN asked
ms or whatever subject E?.0I'HMAN brought up. This was the reason
that I permitted BRCIHMAN to think that I had known both §Q_H_l§I"
HELEN, when he first asked me about them on the -occasion of
our"first meeting.
"Our third meeting took place about a week or ten days after
the second meeting, and occurred near Dey and Church Streets,
New fork City. I believe that I was waiting in front of s
closed cafeteria on Dey Street, on the southeast corner, but
a little further along on Dey Street. I had great difficulty
in making this meeting since it was set for about 7:30, but I
did get there from Philadelphia on time. BROTHMAN did not
show up, and did not show up for fu.'LLv two hours. When he did
come down, it was close to 10:00 o'clock, and he did not have
any information with him. When I asked him about this, he said
that he had been tied up in the office and there were still
people there, so he could not bring it down to me, but he
promised definitely that he would have this information on
the occasion of our next meeting. I cannot recall. the occasion
of our fourth meeting, that is, the exact place. I do not
believe that it was the same corner where I had met him the
third time because I had waited there so long that it was
against all nw principles, and the things that I had seen
taught by SAM and the preceding Soviet agents as a means of
procedure, but I met him west on Dey Street, that is, the first
street over from Church Street. He did have materiel for me
that time, but this turned out to be a single blueprint; I
have since identified this blueprint. It concerned a piece
of lrdxing equipment. Either that evening or a few days sub-
sequent, I turned this material overto SAM, and on the
occasion of aw next meeting with SAM, received a verbal dress-
ing down becaue of the fact that the material was fragmentary
in nature, and was totally vslueless, without a description of
the process to which it pertained.
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"Q: the occasion ct, I would say somewhere between the
fifth and the seventh meetings with EROTI-MAN, I again received
material which'I believe I have since IdEE'i3ied as a thousand
gallon water cooled resin kettle, manufactured for the Synvar
Company of Hmingtcn, Delaware. On this occasion, I took the
precaution or first inspecting the material and determined that
as it stood, it was completely valueless, and as a matter or -
tact, there was the possibility that even had a full descrip-
tion of the process been given pertaining to this particular
resin, it would have been material which could have been ob- .
tained from arnr textbook on chemical engineering. Therefore,
I did not turn this material over, but kept it in my home. I
did tell SAM, however, of the nature of the information that
BROTHMAN had tried to give me, and SAM continued to hammer
away at me that I must get him to conform to our regular rules
or procedure. '
"It should be -noted in this connection that the previous
person, AI.FR.ED S1.@_QK, with whom I had dealt from the fall of
191:0 on, and"who' I was even now seeing, was of an entirely
different nature as far as punctuality, value of the materiel
which he gave me, and the completeness oi the information sup-
plied. As a result, I was more or less at a completeloss for
ways of how to handle EROTHMAN. Also, in this period, which is
early December, there was one, and possibly two meetings during
which EROTHMAN did not show up at all, and during which calls
to the office elicited information that he was either out of
town or was unavailable. I think that on one occasion I
definitely heard BRO'IHHAN's voice in the background.
"I would like to state now that these calls were in the
evening somewhere, I would say between 7:30 and 10:00 or even
10:30 o'clock. -
"BRUH-IMAH once told me that I could call at any time up to11:00 or 12:00. The zgson who usually answered the phone at
I-lendricl-Us was ART Here again, I would like to add
something that I had omitted and which took place on the oc-
casion of the first, but most likely the second meeting, that
is, the one at Child's Restaurant.
-35- "
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"At this time, under instructions from SAH,_ I told ABE that 7
to facilitate matters, I could arrange ¬cT'have any infonnation
that he gave me photo-copied in a matter of a couple of hours-
snd even should the need arise, within a matter of an hour or
so, and would then return it to him. He told me that he was
very pleased at this because in the past, he had often to have
his wife, NAOMI, type the material for him. In this last
connection, I would like to emphasize that on later experiences
with _§I§__J._l-II-!AN_,_ I found out that Hamil;- SHOT!-Blah did a good deal
of ABE's week, and by this I mean, his legitimate work for
the Hendrick Company at home. This included the typing of
reports and the proofreading of reports. -
"In the middle of December,I would say about the second
week, on being urgedby SAM, I finally told BBMHHAN that
this whole matter of his handing over fragmentary information
and of not keeping appointments would have to come to an end.
He was extremely irritated by this and told me that while he
realised that I was being prompted to do this by the Soviets,
that they were a bunch of fools, and they did not realize how
much valuable information he had already given them, and they
also did not realise to what extent he was being pressed to
complete work at the Hendrick Company. He was extremely
vehement about this and I was somewhat taken aback. In con-
nection with this valuable information he mentioned that he
had previously handed over, I believe to JOHN, a drawing of a
turbine type of engine for aircraft, and also information on
one of the earliest Jeep models which had been designed by him
for the Hendrick Company, and by the Hendrick Company in turn,
for the U.S. Government. At the end of this time, or this
tirade, he cooled down somewhat and finally said, '92'92ieI'.l, if
it is information on complete processes that is wanted, I
have something that I am certain you people will want.
Right now in the office there is the complete design of a
powder plant built by the Hendrick Company for the Atlas
Powder Compazv I believe he gave the location as being in
the South, possibly Chatanooga. I may be mistaken as to the
name of the powder comparw and the name of the town, but it
is something similar to Atlas. It was a name which I had
recognized because of familiarity with the chemical field
and the location was definitely somewhere in the South. I
told SAM about this and he was greatly overjoyed. I had made
-36..
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a denite arrangement with _Hfl9_?HM5N_.io meet on the night
ct, I believe, Monday or Tuesday, possibly Monday, the 22nd
oi December, l9l+1. This meeting was to take place at 50th
Street and Lexington Avenue, on the northwest corner, right
where the subway eJd.t is. This is diagonally across the street
from one or the Loew's Theatres and is near two restaurants.
The one is a Bickford restaurant and the next one is a os.£e- -
teria called the. Park Lane which also ha a bar as part oi
the setup. Next to the Park Lane is a Tranelux Theatre.
"The meeting with BROTI-ll-IAN was to take place at, I believe,
10:00 o'clock. I waited until at least 10:25 because I
hadmade split-second arrangements for meeting SAM at another
place. This place was to be the Washington Squartxpress
Stop or the Bth Avenue or Independent subway system, and was
to be on the platform, on the express platform oi the system.
It was a wet, cold driszlv night, and as I have stated I -
waited until the last minute. Then, not trusting connections,
and with no sign of BROTI-IMAN, I took a cab. However, the cab
driver got lost down in the Greenwich Village area and when
we finally did get to the Washington Square stop, it was well
beyond the time when I was supposed to meet SAM. I raced
downstairs to the platform Just in time to see an express
pulling out for the uptown district. There I got a glimpse
ct a man whom I am sure was SAM, and Ibelieve he turned his
head and recognized me. I waited i.n great indecision until
the next express came along and then decided to take it. I
got ct! at the lhth Street stop, and there, surely enough,
was SAM. Hy this time, I was trembling both from emotional.
and physical. exhaustion. I met SAM and he said 'Notl:ing doing?!
and I said, 'Ho.' "'1" was going to launch into an excuse when
he said 'Never mi.nd,' but in a very kind manner. We then went
upstairs where he asked me to wait on the corner of lath Street,
possibly it was 16th, where he lett me. I knew what he had
left tor, because he had made arrangements to have a second
person and possibly even a third waiting to take the material
may from him as quickly as possible. I believe also that my
understanding with E%0THMAN was to have the material returned;
that it was to be copied and returned that same night.
BROTHMAN had told me that it was very bulky and we had an-
ticipated that possibly it would take three or four hours
actually to copy it. I had understood from BROTHMAN that
this was the complete design or the plant ; every last detail,
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inclhding that of the building itself. SAM returned shortly
and he took me_to the Ferris Wheel Bar which is located _
downstairs in the cellar of what was at that time known as
the Henry Hudson Hotel.' This is on 57th Street and Ninth
Avenue, and this was the first occasion that I recall our .
going there, though we did so, SAM and I, on many subsequent
occasions. We had several drinks, which I needed badly, and .
a sandwich because I had left work late and had gotten nothing
to eat on the way. SAM, in general, was very conciliatory
andIwasrelievedthst Ihadmanagedtoatleast get in
touch with him so that no more than one person was kept
Wltlgs _
"Hy neuct meeting with _l3l§ _!i'_I_{l_{I;_1_l§Itook place after Christmas,
and at this time, I do not recall what excuse, if arnr, he
gave me for not giving me the information on the Atlas
Powder Compamr or for not keeping his meeting. I believe
that it my have been that he was out in the middle west,
in Akron, Ohio, and st this time he told me that he was in
possession of complete information on the manufacture of
Buns.--S, a synthetic rubber. He also told me that not only
was he in possession of complete information, but that he
had the complete design material and he told mathst he icnld
have this material reachr for me on the first of January
1942. when I told SAM about this, he was highly elated
because, I believe that one of the things on the list _which
I had given EROTHMAN verbally, on the occasion of, I believe,
our second meeting, was Buns-S. SAM and I made arrangements
to meet on the afternoon, early in the afternoon, of New
Year's day, l.9h2. I came to Day and Church Streets on the
morning of New l.earIs.Day, and again Iwaited, possilly an
hour_ and a half, or two hours, for ABE, a.nd when he finally
did come down from the Hendri.ck's offices, he had nothing
with him, but he did tell me that he had been up working al.L
night on Buns-S, and that some errors in the calculations
which other people in the offices had made, had come to his
attention, and as a result, because he wanted the information
to be very complete and correct, he was unable to have the
information for me. I remember this occasion very clearly
and distinctly, because it was a cold morning and I waited
outside the Exchange Bar, which unfortunately was closed,
on New Year's morning.
-38-
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"When BROTHHAN finally did come down, he drove me to
the area around the Penn Station. Again I recall this - --
incident distinctly because he and I went up the West
River Drive. At this time, also,he promised that within .8
short time, that is, a matter of a week or so, he would
have this information for me; that is, the complete design
and process for making Buna-S synthetic rubber. During the
period from the first of January until late in March 191,2,
my clearest recollection is that of one long series of meet-
ings with ABE, most'of which actually did not take place
since either I was told that he was not at the office and
was told that he was at home or I was told that he was _out _-
of town or some other excuse was given. On several occasiogns,
I did see him, but again he had some excuse why he didn't " .
have the material or wtvit was not ready; it always seemed
to be practically complete, but never quite ready. I recall
distinctly that in late February of 191.2, in the course of
only one week, I went four times to New York City, and on
only one occasion did I see ABE, and this was the occasion
of ny fourth trip.
"This was during that week, on a Friday evening. On each
of these occasions, because I was supposed to have the
cocqalete Buna-S story, I met with §AMda.nd I believe also
that on each occasion SAM had one, aha possibly two con-
federates waiting so that he could turn the information
over to them. Finally, on this Friday in February, when
I again showed up empty handed, I told SAM in great despera-
tion that BROTHMAN had promised to have the material for me
on Saturday, the following day. I believe that I am wrong,
itwastobe Sunday. Itol:1thistoSAMa.ndtoldhi1ins
very convincing manner because I, nyself, was convinced of
the fact that this was certainly the time that I was going
to have the Buns-S information. At this, SAM became greath
enraged and while I do not recall the exact words of the
conversation, I believe that what I am now going to say is
practically verbatim: _
"He said, Look here you fool, this sooundrel will not have
the information on Sunday. He won't have it next Sunday
or the mday after that. I bet you that it will be a
month or two months before you will get it 3 than I doubt
that it will becomplete. its doesn't have it complete now;
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he doesn't have halt of it complete; maybe it isn't even
started on yet. -
When I still protested that I would like to come on Sundw
even though I would not meet him, then he said, That's
Just the point. Do you think I like to keep you coming up
here every single night in the week, practically looking likea ghost. Why, you look worse than s ghost, you look like a ' "
sick ghost. You look like the devil.
"Then he became so enraged, actually not at me but at '
BROTHHAN, that he was almost beside himself and actually
stopped talking from" the force of his anger. After he cooled
down, he said, Look, we are going to have a couple of double
Scotches, and you are going to have something to eat. We wiJ.l
sit there and will talk or music and we will talk of opera,
andwewillnot talk otthat S---BROFIHMAN. Iouwill go
home and rest up. What in the world does your mother think
of you? Do you realize the danger in such a procedure? What
do the people you work with think oi you?
"Some of the meetings which were to have taken place with
SAM actually did not take place until the early hours of '
the morning. Some or them took place still in the evening,
but on many occasions, SAM was unable to return until the
early hours because or "5151-evgious comnitment or arrangement
with a confederate, and as a result, I was actually extremely
weary and exhausted; not only mentally, but physically.
"The next event that occurred was that I told BR0'1HM.'1N that
I was extremely weary and that these meetings which I;.".d not
taken place, had taken a great deal out 01' me, and would it
not be possible for him to arrange it so that I could help
him for a week-end or an extended period in which we could
finish oi! this matter of the Buna-S. BROTI-MAN agreed to this
and during, I believe, the first week in March, we made an
arrangement to go up somewhere into the country in New York
State. We were to drive up there and BROTHMAN was to take
all of the necessary data with him and we were to put the
Buna-S report in its final tom. ERO'1'HIMAN said that it was
so near complete, that actually we would not have to take
much time -to work, that we could relax a bit. We could play
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some handball or something of that nature. My principal con-
cern was the Buns-S, not the idea of playing handball.
"HiO'1'l-[HAN did meet me, again about an hour late. I recall
the place very clearly. I was waiting on the corner of
the Horn and Hardart's Cafeteria on Bth Avenue, and 33rd
Street, on the northwest corner. I believe we were to go
from there to either the Lincoln funnel or the Hudson Funnel;
I believe the Lincoln Tunnel, actually. BRO'II@_ did show up
finally, as I have said, one hour late, a'd"t'5ld me again that
a previous engagement had made it impossible for him to keep
the weekend agreement. Frankly, by this time, I was somewhat
relieved and was glad to get home. when I did tell SAM about
this, he said Look, the next time that you meet him, tell
him to set a time, we dontt care what time, but in the near
1uture,_within two weel-:s,' during which he must absolutely
finish the Buna-S.' .'Now,' he said, 'do not threaten him;
just set this time. If he does not complete it within the
time that we have specified, we will drop him; that is all.
"I did make an arrangement with BRUIHMAN and one that was
finally successful. It will be recalled that at this time,
I had come up for the draft. re actual physical eotamination
took place on April 20, l9l|2. On instructions from SAM, I
did not tell ABE that I was being drafted, but said instead,
that I was going to be transferred by my firm to California,
and I told him that I was very anxious to finish up the Buna-S
and that HRUTHMAN said that it was practically complete. I
made arrangements with BROTI-{MAN whereby during, I believe, the
last week in March, I came to New York, and we spent the entire
night together from about 8:00 or 9:00 o'clock up until 6:00 or
6:30 of the following morning. This was during the middle of
the week, possibly on a Thursday of the last week in March,
during which time BROTI-IMAN and I completed the Buns-S report.
This was completed in two rooms which I had rented, or engaged,
at the Hotel New Yorker. I cannot recall what name I used;
it mm very well have been FRANK LEi_S1,EB.. There is some
possibility that I used the name HARRI GOLD, and also some _
possibility that I may have used the name MARTIN either as afirst or second name. I rather think, hm- Ever, that it was thename FRANK KESSLER that I used. too certain. pm,-".1 -
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whetheraitwes one ortworooms. Inawevent,westeyed
up all night. My pert in the completion of the report was
nominal; I was merely another pair or hands while 1§Ij.<_J'1HHAN
did a great deal of annotating and typing. BROIIRIAN B§ugHt
a portable typewriter and a whole suitcase hall or data. "
The report was not quite complete at 6:30 but we were e:-- '_
hausted, and we went to bed, and about 9:00 or 10:00 o'clock,
BROTHMAN went into work at the Hendrick Company. This was a
rainy day; I recall very well going out tor smoothing to est
and getting drenched. HIUIIMAN returned about 6:00 or 6:30
inltheevening and we completed the assembling of the Bane-S
report; Also with this report, which included possibly 200
typewritten pages, possibly more, were a great mats of blad-
printsa These blueprints covered not only the outline or the
flow sheet or the process, but many details oi construction oi
the various units, especially the very important one or the!
polymerization, where the late: or the Styrene-Butadiene
polymer is formed. It is likely that the blueprints were not
complete as far as the final details went, but I do know that
included in this were many ot the unite completely designed
and also the design of the actual plant or building housing -
the equipment. I believe that the plant was actually designed
tor the B. F. Goodrich Company, though there is some possibility
that it was designed for the United States Rubber Company, in
Raugatuck, Connecticut. I would also like to state here very
definitely that the information given in the written section
in the 200 or 3! typewritten pages was as complete as it was
posible to be. This information I turned over to SAM at
about 7:00 or 7:15 that evening. The occasion of the transfer
was on Sixth Avenue and 23rd Street." It was in front of a
Horn and I-iardart's, a very large one, which is to the best
of my memory, on 23rd Street, very near 6th Avenue, though
it may be lath Street, near 6th Avenue. This is a very large
Horn and Hard/art's Restaurant, and is, I believe, principally
an autcmet. I wish to emphasise here that both the blueprints
given to me by saormun, and I would say that these were pos-
sibly some 15 in number, and the report itselt, some Z13 or
30O typewritten pages, which were vary closely typewritten and
were not double spaced, were included in the material which I
turned over to SAM on this rainy evening in very late larch ot
191$. I would like to add here that during the period from
the first or January 19102. until late March, BROTI-IHAH did, at
various times, give ms information relating to Ema-S. This
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consisted of quite an amount of material both in bulk and in
content. It included a flow sheet for the manufacture of
Ems-S with the name Dewey and Alsy Compamr of Cambridge,
Massachusetts. This is dated, I believe, in early 191.1.
There was also a recoverysystem for the two principal ma-
terials needed in making Buns-S, that is, Butadiene and
Styrene; a layout of the equipment, that is, the outline of A
Just where the particular units were to be located in the
actual plant. There was also a considerable mass of writtm
material, including a 30 or 109 PB-86 outline of the Buna~3
Polymerization process. This material was in H't_0THMAH's om
distinctive and rather small handwriting. None of this material
wasgever turned over to SAM, nor did I ever make am effort to
do so; because of 8AH's insistence on a completeprocess or
nothing at all. ,1 did not refuse this material when BRO'_1HHAN
gave it to me because I did_ not wish to offend him, and also
because one of the reasons that he may have given it to me was
for later use when we finally wrote the report. I believe there
was also during this time, an agreement among us that before
that final report was submitted, that we would go over it
together. Possibly, this agreement did not exist initially
when I was extremely optimistic about obtaining the whole
story, but it did exist during March. "All of the above
material that I have mentioned both blueprints and the written
material, have been found in ny home, and I have since identi-
fied this material to agents MILLER and BRENNAN of the Federal
Bureau of Investigation.
"Sometime after this, and subsequent to the 20th of April, _
I was told by SAM to make certain to congratulate and praise
_because of the information he had turned over, and
to tell him that it had been received in the Soviet Union
and had been hailed as a remarkable, extremely valuable piece
of work, and that the word was that it was so complete, the
information, that is, that the Soviets were immediately beginning
to set up a plant for the manufacture of Buns-S. ~ a
"I believe that I may have had one more meeting with BRUPHMAN,
or at least a telephone conversation with him, subsequent to
the matter of completing the Buns-S work in late March. This
occurred probably very early in April, and at this time, I
told him that I was definitely going to the West Coast and that
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I would say goodby. I also told him that someone would take
myplace. ActualLv,thes thatlhadinmindwasa :man by the name of THOMAS . This matter I discussed
with BLACK on a train from Philadelphia to New Iorlg. At this
time, I was certain that I would go into the service. I was
in excellent shape physically and my family doctor who was
formerly on the examining staff of physicians at one of the
draft boards had assured me that even my hypertension was not
sufficiently great to bar my being taken in. It will be
recalled that at this time, the bottom of the barrel was
literally being scraped. It was upon this occasion, the
train trip to New York, and also the occasion of my last
meeting with SAM before going up for aw physical examination
for the draft, that I discussed this matter with BLACK. I
told BLACK that I had not yet mentioned the matter to_SAM__
or to my Soviet contact... At this time, I do not thinfthat
I realised that SAM also knew BLACK, but I at least had in
mind reconmending to SA!-I that BLACK be appointed to follow
me with OF1Hl4AN. I told BLACK that BRO1HMAN was an extremely
able and capable man. In fact, actually, he was very brilliant,
but that the matter of personality or personalities entered a
great deal into dealing with him. I told him that he should
not make the mistake that I had made of becoming too friendly
with BROTHMAN. I not only identified BROTHMAH to BLACK, but
I gave him hiscomplete name, where he worked, the telephone
number, where he lived, the telephone number there, and a good
deal of additional data concerning his child ELSA and his wife.
I do not recall whether the second child, ANITA, had yet been
bom at this time. I told BLACK that he would have to take the
initiative and to act in a very stern, but fair manner, but
above all, to keep HROTI-MAN in line to try to insist that
BROTHMAN meet him at a specified place and time, not near the
Hendrick Company in the downtown district, but as a matter of
discipline to make it a good distance away and also, should -
HROTHI-IAN be late, not to wait for him, but to call him on a
subsequent occasion and literally 'rip him up. BLACK speed
to this and said that i.f it could be worked for him to meet
ABE, he believed that he could handle EROTHHAN quite well.
I said goodby to SAM and than went up for my draft examina-
tion, where to my surprise, I was definitely a.nd finally
classified ls-F, due to nw hypertension. I had had an alternate
meeting with SAM in case I should not be called for the draft,
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aor more likely, in case there should be a brief time, say
e week or seven days postponement of any actual induction.
At this time, SAM told ms to again resume contact with -
BROTHHAN and emphasised that we must continue to get more
iiiI6ii:f§"tTion on Buns.-8. This seemed to be all that §{d§_ was
interested in. I thereupon called BROTI-IRAN and told him
that I was no longer going to be transferred to California,
but would see him again, and"on the occasion of this sub-- -
sequent meeting,"which again, I believe, was in the downtown
pert of New Iork, around Church Street, BROTHMAN told me
that he was having great difficulty at the Hendrick Company.
The next two or three scheduled meetings with BROTI-MAN did
not take place. This brings us well into Hay, or possibly
ea:-L7 June. On all of these occasions, when I celled the
office, not only was he not there, but WEBE.'l!°also was not
there, and on one occasion, I was given another number-"to.1 -- .*- 1;.»
cell. On one other occasion, I celled his wife, NAOMI, "W"
she seid that ABE was working late and when I said"£hat' he
wss not in the office, she said that he was in his other
office. This other office I subsequently discovered to be
that of mm, and is in the Graybar Building, New
Iork City. I finally did meet mormmn at e place that he
requested which was in the Grand Central Station in one of the -
many small drug stores or luncheonettes. He told me that he
was considering leaving the Hendrick Company because of the
bad way in which they had used him. '
"His story was that Hendrick had given a raise to everyone
in the organization as a result of obtaining the Buna-S con-
tract, but that he and _V§_EB$__had conspicuously been left out.
He said that the reason res-use was that he had insisted
on giving the Rubber-"Reserve Commission in Washington, on the
occasion of a conference in April. complete process informa-
tion on the Hendrick Bans.-S process. I should like to state
that according to BROTHHAN, the original process data on
Buna-5 came from, most likely, the Standard Oil Company of
New Jersey, or the United States Rubber Company. The story
that HIOTI-MAN gave me on a subsequent meeting conflicted
somewhat with the first story; that is, of his desire to
leave Hendrick because of the Buns--S infcmation which he
had insisted be made available to all of the firms participating
in the rubber research plan. This concerned principally the .
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Iaot that he had not been granted a raise, that is, both he
and mm. He then told me of this man, mm son-anmg, who
about _a year previous, had some work done"'£or' him by"i3ROTHHAN,
that is, in B%0'IHMAN's, capacity of design engineer for the
Hendrick Company, and who had become greatly impressed at
BHOTH!-!.AN's ability and who had now made BROTHMAN an otter to
go into partnership with him. _~ _ _
"BRDTHHAH also stated t t he had insisted that if he wereto go along that go with him, and sonwmm had
agreed to this. '
"There followed at least two other meetings which did not
take place duringthis time. I had reported to SAM the tact
that EOTHMAH was considering leaving the Hendrick ompany,
and SAM grew very anxious_ about this whole business. He kept
impressing on me the tact that under no circumstances was I
to permit EIOTHMAN to leave Hendrick, that I must keep him
working there, as we were extremely anxious to obtain all
possible further developments on Buna~S, and that this was to
be BRO'1'HMANls task. I told HIOTIMAN about this and he Just
laughed and said that the Bane-S was complete; that what sort
of information was there to be handed over? He had designed
the plant and the plant had Just ticked off like clock work
and now that it was done, he was going on to much greater
things. He also told me a third conicting story. This was
to the effect that he had already agreed to leave, or told
Hendrick that he was leaving than and going with GOLWINNE,
and that Hendrick had then offered to give him a substantial
raise beyond that which anyone else had received, and WEBER
as well, and that it had merely been dropped on his desk by
one ct the officials oi the company and that BROTHHAN had, in
tront of that man, picked it up, crumpled it into a roll and
dropped it into a waste basket. He later told me that Hendric
had closed the les to him, and did not at this time mention
azwthing about the proposed otter of the raise. It was not
so much the actual incidents, themselves, as the manner in
which they were told that makesme state that they were con-
flicting stories. In any event, I recall clearly in June,
possibly late June, meeting with BRUIHMAN near the Hendrick
Company very late in the evening about 10:00 o'clock, and
taking s. long walk up and down Sixth Avenue, starting with
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Church Street. During this time, anomaly explained to _
me of his grand hopes for the future and was very enthus-
iastic about the various plants he was going to build '
while he worked for the Chemurgy Design Corporation, which
was GOLWYNNE's compamr. He did, however, offer to consider -_
the p 6aa153.'1.;ty of still working for Hendrick and told me
that he was going to make an arrangement with Hendrick whereby
he would be a consultant for th on a part time basis. It
is my belief now that no such arrangement was ever concluded
and that in fact, Hendrick had barred the office to him.
This, to a certain extent, satisfied me but when I told SAM
about it, he was wild and finally said, iwell let's see what
happens. He said, "I'el._l him while he is at Ghemurgy, to
try and concentrate on getting Buna-S contracts, if he can.
Apparently, the one thing that SAM_thought about was the
Buns-S. .
"About this time, E.01Hl-IAN started to tell me, and the time
was actually about the time that he was leaving Ohemurgy, of
the design of certain pieces of miidng equipment. This had
come about as a result of" some statements that BRUIHMAN had
made in his Buns-e8 report, regarding m'I.:d.ng and which had
aroused the interest of some engineers in the Soviet Union,
so much so that a request had come from them, asking for
further information, and this request in tuna was relayed to
me by SAM. This is not a matter of a conclusion that I have
pieced together, but is the result of a clear bit of memory
or recollection on my part as to an actual incident that
occurred during this period of Hay or June 19b2, and during
a conversation with SA!-I. I might add here that SAM had told
me that on the very day or the very night, rather, that I
had tumed over the information on Buns-S, this rainy evening
in I-larch, that that very evening the material had been sent
on its way to the Soviet Union. '
"I would like to note here that the Buna-S information sup-
plied by BROTHMAN concerned a continuous process as opposed
to a batch process. This meant that smaller amounts of material
were handled at any one particular moment, but that in spite
of the decreased size of the equipment the actual output per
24 hours was tremendously increased, and there was also a
terrific saving in the materials of construction of the equip-
ment and in the manpower required to operate the plant.
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' '1 would like to add one point here, that while BRUHBIAH -
had succeeded in convincing me that he would stilI"b'e""d5Eg
work for Hendrick, when I told BAH about this, BAH insisted
that it was just a dodge on BROl'HH.AN's part. At"this time,
as I have stated before, came the request from BAH for in-
formation on the mixing equipment. Again there resulted a
long period of meetings, in which no information was turned
over or the information was extremely fragmentary, or meetings _
whichdidnot occur at allinwhichl showedup but EOIH2-IAN
did not, and arrangements with BAH for the transfer of the '
information should I get it. I met'SAH but did not have the "
information, of course, and finally, in the late fall of 191,2,
I would say about October, and possibly November of 19b2,
BROTHMAN turned over to me an exceedingly weighty book which
was actually a large black notebook with rings some two or
three inches in diameter and which contained a very complete
g exposition of BRO'I'HMAN's work on mixing. This included, '
" again, about "300 typewritten pages, some 50 to 100 nomographs
to be used in the various calculations involved in designing
mixing equipment, and a great mass of reprints of articles
which BB.0Tl-IMAN had written on mi:x:l.ng.' These were mostly -
from l~icGraw-Hill Publications, such as 'Ohemical and Hetalurgical
Eagineering Process Engines:-ing,' and IFood Engineeringei
These three are separate Journals. There was also a large
mass of material consisting of advertising brochures of a
technical nature, but which contained much valuable data. It
ell" presented a very complete story on the subject of mixing,
possibly the most fundamental unit operation in chemical en-
gineering, since all-chemical engineering processes involve
at some stage or other the bringing together of two materials
in as intimate a contact as possible so that as co1. plate a
reaction as possible may take place and without the production
of any undesirable by-9-products. »
"I would like to state here that it was in general, 8»AM's
and not onlySAM's, but the policy of all of the Soviets that
I have known, never to accept an individual's work on its own
merits» Hhat they were interested in, and this will be re-
peated again and again, was industrial and technical information
ofsuchanaturethat itwas alreadyinuseinaplant orwas
designed for use in s plant which was being erected, and they _
often emphasized to me, BAH and the others, that -they would
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much rather" be satisfied with something which was slightly -
out oi date but which worked, and was now working, as opposed
to something which contained many advances or improvements,
but which was still in the theoretical or experimental. states -
The reason for the acceptance of BRO'1H1g!,4N_'_s material. on mixing
was that it obviously bore the stamp or having been completed
tor the use of various industried and chemical plants in the
United States. " ' -
"Again, I would like to emphasise or rather to bring up this
pcint.that all that EBOTHMAN ever submitted to me was always
material which he would have had to complete tor his, at that
time, legitimate employer. It was then, because ct the tact
that the intormation was intended tor use in the United States
and had been accepted by many authorities as being valuable, that
SAM was so interested in-the mixing data, and there was always
the tact that a direct request had come from the Soviet Union
for this material. I turned this material on mixing over to
SAM, in I recall, the Ferris Wheel Bar. I recall this incident
very clearly. It was a rather cold evening in the late tall
or possibly early winter, but I believe that it was late tell
as it was not yet December. The latest that it was was December,
and I recall having this bulky package which was some five -
inches in thickness, by about 18 inches in length, and about
ll; inches in width, containing this mixing equipment data, and
I recall having set it on as-seat next to me. We were not at the
bar; we never sat at the bar, but at one oi the small tables,
and I had laid it on one ct the empty chairs at our table, and
had put a newspaper on top of it in an unsuccessful effort in
a partial concealment. {SAM took the material with him, when
I left, and with the newspaper on the outside, he carried it
underhisarznandthematerislnexttohisbodys Thiswas m
the same night that I received the material from ERO'1'HHAH.
When I received the material from BROI'HM.AN, it was all in this
large looeeleat notebook, and I subsequently purchased some
wrapping paper at a stationery store. This stationery store
was and may still. he on h2nd Street, on the south side, Just
east or Lexington Avenue, and between Lexington and Third
Avenue. It is possible that the two proprietors of this little
store may recall ny race. '
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"In connection with the tragnents of intormation relating
to the mixing equipment which gave me between Jul:
and October or November, when the completed report was handed
in, I would like to state that I kept all, or possibly almost
ell, of this msterialin my home, and that this has since been
found in nnr home and has been identified by me to Agents _
HJILLEI and BRENNAN '0! the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
"This material consists oi handwritten sections in nw handwriting
relating to the theory of mixing. There are some £0 or 50 -
pages total; handwritten sections in BROTHMANM handwriting
relating to the theory of mi:d.ng,' these are some possibly 25
or 30 pages 3 and a variety oi typewritten material also re-
lating to mixing equipment. _ ' _
"There were also some elementary sketches, principally
drawn by HROTI-IMAM, and in the body of the report, the theory
relating to mixing. .None ct this material was ever turned
over to SAM because or the previously explained reluctance on
aw part to ever again give SAM a i'ra@1ent from BBOTI-ELAN.
'!Again, I would like to mention here that SAM told me that
the material was Just in time to be carried to the Soviet '
Union. The exact means or transportation, I do not know;
whether it was by boat or partly by plane, or Just who was
to carry it, but I do know this, that on occasions, when
BROTHMAN had promised information beginning with the time
that I met him in late 191.1, and up until the time that I
finally submitted the mixing equipment data, I was advised
st various times, by SAM, that it the work could be completed
by a certain date and hour, that it would be possible for it
to make the next boat.
"SAM told me on the -occasion or a subsequent meeting that
the information on mixing equipment was very good indeed, that
he had personally inspected a good deal of it, though not all,
since that would have taken too long. I believe that possibly
here I have confirmation of the tact that SAM was, by training,"
a mechanical engineer. He may also have told me that the in-
formation had been well received in the Soviet Union, but
certainly he did mention, on the occasion of the next event
which concerned a meeting between SAM, BROEHMAN and nnrself,
and which took place in either late November or early December
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been early January of 191.3, that it had been well received.
This meeting was a pre-arranged one and took place in the "
Lincoln Hotel on Bth Avenue, above l|2nd Street in New York
City. I engaged a suite of rooms, actually only two,'for T __:
this occasion. I cannot recall the name which I used but I
believe again that it was FRANK KBSLE. I_ do not believe
that with SAM there I would ve used aw own name. There is
again the possibility that I may have used the name MARIE,-'
but again, I don't believe that I did so because BAH knew that
I was meeting SLACK under the nameof MARTIN. The purpose of
this meeting h§I'5'en carefully discussed with SAM before I
suggested it to BRUI1-IMAN, and wasessentially to be in the
nature of a pep talk for BROTHHAN given by SM-I. I was to repre-
sent BAH as a visiting Soviet dignitary and possibly there may
have been some hint that he was a military visitor, or certainly
at least a technical man. The whole idea of the meeting was
to butter up BROTg_4}_I_ Bo that he would work on processes in
which we were interested, and might even obtain work with a .
firm or firms in say, the field of synthetic rubber, or possibly
some other field in which he might have worked where the infome-
tion would have been of interest to the Soviet Union. BROTHMAN
readily agreed to this meeting and it took place as I have
described, most likely in late November or possibly early
December, with-a still further possibi.l..ity of early January '
OI 191$» . , I
"I had previously told EIOTI-ll-IAN that great interest had been
shown in the Soviet Union on account of the two magnificent
pieces of work that he had donein connection with Buna-3 and
with the mixing equipment, and that as a result, a Soviet dig-
nitary had been sent herewith the special purpose of meeting
BROTI-IHAN and conversing with the man who had done such fine
work. I stated thatthis man was here in connection with some
other ostensible and legitimate reasons and that he was a very
high official indeed, but that the main purpose of his coming
was to see BROTHMAN and converse with him. To this, BROTHHAH
readily agreed. The meeting took place as planned with one
exception. I tried first to engage a room in the Hotel New
Iorker and was unsucceseml and finally managed to get one at
the Lincoln. I then met SAM at the New Yorker and told lrlm
that I had engaged rooms at the Lincoln and he then told me
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to get in touch with I did so and called BBO'I.i£l4A8
at his office and told him to meet mein the lobby of the
Lincoln Hotel. $0'li-IRAN did so; I would say the hour was
about 8:30, and we went up to the rooms. I do not know. _8A_ll__2
exact whereabouts at that particular time. - I-Is may even have
been in the lobby of the Lincoln, because I recall that at a
later time, -he told of having seen EIOTHHAN and ms going - -
upstairs. In any event, he came up within about 15 or 20
minutes. That was somewhere close to 9:00. o'clock, and I I
admitted him. I introduced him to BROTHMAN a_a<BEORGE. I
do not believe that I used the name SAM. There is also the
possibility that _I may have used the ns.mg.-"SIMON, but then
again I believe that SIMON was the name under which I intro-
duced SAM to AL SLACK on another three--fold meeting.
. .
"SAM was extremely, genial and expansiw during this meeting.
He was generally of that character, but he outdid himself
this time. He called up and had some wine and some sandwiches
sent up. We then proceeded to talk until one, possibly two
o'clock in the morning. I rather fancy'the latter hour. A
good deal of the subject matter of the conversation concerned -"
paraise by SAM of the excellent work which BROTHMAN had done.
It also concerned a good deal of conversation on the subject
of mathematics and the application of mathematics to practical
problems in engineering. By this, I mean the application of
certain fields of mathematics which are not commonly used.
SAM very gently and extremely diplomatically hinted to, __ '
BRO'1'h'.MAN, or put over the thought, that BROI'Hl4AN should try
to get work in fields in which the Soviets were interested,
particularly fields relating to military endeavor, or military
equipment, and also -the inevitable Buna-S. I believe, however,
that here may have come the first hint, and this is purely one
that I am evolving in retrospect", of the interest of the Soviets
in Atomic Ezerg, and that concerned the length of time spent
in discussing mathematics and the application of mathematics
to various fields, and also there may have been some conver-
V cation relating to $01HMAH's acquaintance with 1-,at Columbia University. I believe um here aaocmu-m
stated to SAM that he was a former pupil of Dr. URl's. I
would like to state here that I am not confusing this incidentwith m-. emnamanm, and that while 1 am evolving this
in retrospect, I am quite certain that 1: am occur. 1 am
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emphasising this because that at this time, I had no idea
that anything was going on in regard to Atomic Ehergy in
the United States. It is possible that SAM did, as early
a date as this, have some definite information. Also there S
occurred here a promise by SAM of offering BRQ'1_l-Q}1j___a].1 of
the aid possible in regard to the physical<¬E.sk of getting
infonnation on paper. This included stenographic services, -
and this matter I will take up shortly. Gne slip occurred
during the meeting, and I do not thing it was due to the wine,
because I had, occasionally, seen SAM consume far more alcoholic
beverages than the two glasses of wine that he had, and that
occurred when SAM once referred to me as HARRY, not FRANK. He
quickly covered up, however, but I do recall this slip.
"As I have stated, we put in some five hours together. A '
good deal of the tall: was on matters completely unrelated
to the subject of espionage and concerned a greet deal.
of conversation by SAM, concerning the true state of the Soviet
forces in combat with the Germans; a great deal of irrelevant
details concerning life in the Soviet Union, and inevitably,
since SAM was a skilled conversationalist and knew enough not
to monopolies any such occasion, a tremendous amount of talk
by ERO1Hl-IAN on his accomplishments in the past. Here, SAM
managed to skiJJ.fuJ.]y, I thought, interJect how much more
EROTHMAH could do in the future were he to follow instructions. _
This was extremely expertly doneand .|. don|'t*Eh3E?It would
have been detected by anyone except one who had had such a long
and in general unsatisfactory relationship with BROTI-MAN re-
garding the obtaining of information for the Soviet Union".
"When we left, I recall the incident very clearly, wc. all
went downstairs to the lobby. SAM took_a cab and headed up-
town and finally BROTHHAN took a cab. I-ls was so elated, that
he was going back to the Chemurgy offices to work for the *
rest of the night.
"1 believed that I Itayed over in the room until the morning
since it was too late to get a train, and then I finally got
a train at 6:30 or 7:00 o'clock th following morning forPhiladelphia. . » ' 8 _- - .
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"The next event that transpired was the matter of the _ _
Aerosol Bomb or Aerosol Dispenser for insecticides. In
connection with this, which occurred early in l9l|3, I would
like to state that on the occasion of subsequent meetings,
BROTIQ-l_4_§|_N_ kept asking me for the Soviet stenographer, and I ,
i1Tt'urn, kept asking SAM. As far as HROTI-MAN knew, however,
SAM or GEDRGE as he knew him, had returned to the Soviet
Iifon. SAM wanted to know what HIOTHMAN wanted to work on
and I told him that it was in connection with a dispenser for
insecticides known as the Aerosol Bomb." This was a gadget,
simple in design, but capable of producing a very fine, almost
colloidal fog of a carrier and an insecticide which had the
property of remaining suspended in the atmosphere in a closed
room or tent for some l6_to 18 hours. Such was extremely
useful for the troops overseas in the Pacific areas.
interested, possibly because of the fact that while the Soviet -
Troops were, it is true, fighting under extremely unsanitary
conditions, still they were usually engaged in either temperate
or extremely cold climates. Also, SAM was interested in things
of a more direct military nature. He said to simply let it go
and let BROTI-{MAN prepare the material as best as he could him-
self, and also said that I was not to help him However, to
save face with BROTHMAN, I had to obtain enographic help,and did so in the person of Miss JEW CKA, who at that
time, lived in, I belie Hackensack, ew Jersey, or in that ve
area. In any event, it was not very far from Newark, New Jersey.
I obtained the services of Miss suzxcxn through my friend___T_Q___M
_ OK and this was a last desperation move. I had consideredui1'E§' one of the girls at the Pennsylvania Sugar Cora}.-any but
had then decided that this would be too expensive a maneuver,
taking a girl up to New Iork and returning her. This also was
too dangerous in that she might begin to wonder a little too"When I told S_Al! about this, however, he was totally un-
I O
much about ny activities. BLACK finally recommended Miss RUZICKA,
who was possibly, at that time, engaged in working part time,
possibly one day a week, for, I believe, the New Jersey State
Labor Board or the State Board of Unemployment Compensation.
She was a very young girl, about l6 or 17, and extremely in-
experienced as a stenographer. Hot only was she incapable of
coping with the technical terms involved, this I had rather
expected, but she could also not take even the simplest sentence
..
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in direct dictation without making several errors. The
result was that she would type up the material which BROTI-[MAN
would dictate and in which I would put handwritten words, and
so on, which I thought would be too difficult for her, and would
then submit it to me and I would then correct it as well as I
could. It was so hopelessly jumbled that it always required s.
second session of dictating and going over and finally she
would succeed in getting the story straight. After possibly
two or three such attempts, she would then mail this material
to my home in Philadelphia.
"The meetings or the sessions with anorm-um and Miss RUZICKA
and nwself took place in the Chemurgy offices in the Grsybar
Building, New York. There were possibly four such meetings.
This, I believe, was the maadnnzm; there may have only been
three. There were also one or two occasions in which BROTHHAN
did not show up at all and JDINIE and I merely sat in the
Grand Central Station and waited for unreasonable long periods
of time, until I decided to send her home. I would like to
state that she was completely unfamiliar with New Iork City,
and very much confused. She was very young, as I have said,
and because BLACK had told me to be very sure that she got
home safely, I always made it a. point to ride with her to
Newark and to give her an extra dollar so that she could have
cab fare home. I paid for the transportation between Newark
and New York, and I also paid her, I believe, the sum of $10
for each meeting, even for those in which no meeting with
BROTHHAN occurred. The whole affair was so obviously ridiculous
that HCTHMAN and I gave it up by common consent. By giving
it up, the whole thing, I mean continuing to use the services
of Miss RUZICKA. I did" a considerable amount of work subsequent
to this, however, usually on Sunday mornings, with BHOTHMAN in
the Chenmrg offices in which I took down handwritten notes
from what BROTHHAN said concerning the aerosol process. There
has since turned up in my home a considerable amount of such
material as well as some of the typewritten data as completed
by JE1iIgI;E_,_}?.IYZ,ICKA. The material, aside from that typed by hiss
RUZICKA, consist§"of notes by both myself and EH01!-IHAN. The
BROTHMAN material is in his writing and contains, in addition
to the written data, the design of several other aerosol dispensers
such as the Westinghouse and the Pennsylvania Engineer model
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aerosol dispensers. These sketches were made by milk
and I have identified them as such to Agents HJLLE and_ ____
BRHWAN of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. "
"In addition to the dispenser, there have been found in '
my home a tield fi.'Ll.ing device designed by BR.OTI-IHAN for re- __
£iJ.ling or the aerosol dispensers in the tield. This was _.
in the form of several blueprints. None of this material
was ever tumed over to SAM or any other agent or the Soviet
Union. I accepted this materiel from HICEHMAN because I
did not wish to antagonize him, as I surely would have done,
had I turned down this work. . _
"The next happening that occurred was that of the magnesium
powder. This concerns the production of an extremely tine
magnesium powder such as is used in flares and in tracer
bullets. The idea had its genesis with F who
thought that magnesium powder could be produced by the follow-
i.ng process; that is, spraying the molten magnesium into a
chamber containing eninert gas such as nitrogen or helium.
The spraying was to occur through extremely tine orifices or
nozzles, and the magnesium would form extremely fine globules
or particles in this inert atmosphere, and would tall to the
bottom of the chambercontaining the inert atmosphere from
which it could then be continuously removed and packaged.
Such a process was a great improvement over the traditional
method or producing powders from ingots whereby a series oi
say, eight or l2 attrition machines are set up and the
particles are successively reduced smaller and smaller in
sise until the desired fineness is attained. There is then
involved the problem of sieving out the large particles and
returning them to the machines tor iurther grinding. Also,
the matter or grinding magnesium is not too happy an attair
because of the danger -ct tire from the very small particlespl'O¢lOBds I
"It was HBOTI-iMAN'a Job to design this process, I believe,
it was intended tor use in Australia but there may have also
been the understanding that GOLWYNNE was going to try to sell
this to the United States Government. Here again, BROTHMAH
employed his new familiar dilatory tactics. This matter came
about, that is, the magnesium powder, as a result ct a process
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d to me without any prompting onmy part by -. .W..
1. I-IHAN. That is, a process which was valuable in- .. ..- -
a military sense. I believe that it may have also come - . .
about as a result or something that I may have told BROTHMAN I
relating to the tact that as interesting as the aerosol bomb '
- was, it was still not too important militarily speaking, to -
the Soviet Union. In spite oi BR.O'1HI4AN's delaying actions
and promises which kept recurring, or having the whole informa-
tion in one complete story reach on any one of a number of
occasions, this never occurred. There have, however, been
found in ngr hcmesome tive or six handwritten pages in ow
writing, concerning the magnesium powder process. This is
Just the beginning of the process, the preliminary calculations.
' There is also in my handwriting a diagram and some notations _
in BROTHHANM handwriting. There has also been found some
fragmentary single sheets in BROTHMANM handwriting concerning
calculations on the magnesium powder process.
"I would like to state now that while _§_41H___ was not much
interested in the aerohol dispenser, yet he did, in the
beginning, evidence some degree of concern or enthusiasm -
concerning the magnesium powder process. However, as weeks
passed into months, and no complete process was available,
finally on one occasion, I brought up the matter of both,
the magnesium powder and the aerosol dispenser, to SAM, and
-finally SA!-I became very angry about this because, while I
had previously given SAM to understand that both the aerosol
and the magnesium powder, in particular, were the subject of
interest on the part oi other people beside GOLWYIINE and
BROTHMAN, that at this time I. made it clear to SAM that both
the aerosol and the magnesium powder were entirely the
products of BRO'1HMAN's work, upon which he reacted in the
following fashion:
"He threw up his hands and made a vulgar remark and said
that ii it was all BROTI-B-!AN's work, he wanted nothing to do
with it. -
"None of this material, accordingly, that is, either the
aerosol dispenser or the magnesium powder, was ever turned
over to SAM or any other Soviet agent. . _
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"The occasion of SAH's discussion of BRO'1HMAN's work was
in October of 1916. There was one occasion i.n the early
tall. oi l91t3 when I went to New York and obtained a room at
the Commodore Hotel near both the Graybar Building and the
Grand Central Station. BRO'I'HHAN was to spend the day with
me, working on the magnesium powder and completing the whole
business. He did not show up until pretty late in the
afternoon and finally, even then, spent the whole time telling
me about the trouble he had had in the Chemurgy office. This
was as a result of a disagreement between ARTIE WEBER and EIIIL
both of whom worked for Chamm-Q. _'7TF-EER was one of
thshpartners with GOLWINNE and BHOTHMAN in Chennirgn Absolutely
nothing was done on this day.'
"Beginning sometime i.n the tall of 19112. and =<>n*-insist thrwah
l9L3 and into 19M, I received from B_R 0Tl-!M___£§ a considerableamount of material, mostly blueprints'¬6ncerning a chwee, being put _up by grams? oownpgs and Chemurgy for t , .,___le_;__-g._
Chemical Company of Seymour, Conne_c_'_t_ic_ut. This related to a
53|;t"nt I6?'"tne'"15re¢utt1ob"6{'idél§e1 oata'Iyst, both in pellettom and as vehicle impregnatedl
"GOLWINNE, I believe, was also a partial owner of the
Rufert Compamr in conjunction with a man cl .
These blueprints have since been discovered in aw home
and I have identified them as such to Agent MILLER and
BRENNAN of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Many of the
blueprints are those of the Graver Tank Compamr of Chicago,
Illinois. This last mentioned firm, I believe, was doing the
actual fabrication of the equipment for the Seymour plant.
BRDTHI-IAN and the Chemurgy Company were doing the design work.
In this connection, it should be mentioned, that I did a
good deal of work on two, possibJy three occasions, for
EROTHI-IAN in respect to working ou.t chemical details, par-
ticularly as related to the recovery of the nickel catalyst
once it had been used. It should be mentioned here that .
this nickel catalyst is used in connection withvarious hydro-
genation processes, particularly as concerned with the pro-
duction of tats, such as Crisco and Spry from such materials
as cottonseed oil. For this work, I was paid by BROTHMAN,
certainly on at least one occasion, I believe, to the extent
of $150. This was money which I needed badly for my expenses
with regard to work that I was than doing with AL SLACK.-nulls:-il
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IPH File #65-1.307me -
"nH'dJ.e the Rutert Company had a laboratory in Seymour,
Connecticut, still BRCHHMAN was always quarreling with the
chief chemist there"Ea-T6-tfild ms that he could never get him
to run the experiments that he wanted, and that the design
work would be impossible to complete unless I furnished ABE
with this additional information. This work, I would like to
add, was done in the evenings in the laboratories of the
Pennsylvania Sugar Company. On one occasion, I worked
through an entire night until the following morning. None
- oi the information on the nickel catalyst was ever - '
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"turned over to SAM or any other Soviet agent. I am certain that
I mentioned it to SAM and I am also certain that this topic cam
up during the meeting between SAM, BRDTHMAH and myself at the
Lincoln Hotel, and that _on this seamen had merely side-
stepped the issue and had not condemned the process as being
material'in which the Soviet Union was not interested. To me,
however, SAM stated very plainly that they already had processes
for producing fats used in cooking, and that his tim and mine '
were far too valuable to spend on such matters. Here again, he
reiterated, SAM did, that what was desired most of BROTHMAN was
for him to obtain a job with a large industrial concern.whereby
he could give us well authenticated and accepted information on
subjects in which the Soviets were interested. Such firms were
mentioned as the Goodrich Rubber Company, the Goodyear Company,
and the United States Rubber Company. '
"During my association with BROTHAN, he also threw several
legitimate jobs my way for which I obtained money, which was
very necessary to my continuing my activities. One such was a
proposal on the-conversion of a plant owned by the B-G Interstate
Corporation of Paterson, New Jersey. This firm made a malt syrup
used as a sugar substitute and the people wanted to convert this
plant to a distillery.- I made such a survey and was paid the sum
of $500.
"To go ahead a little b't, in l9hS, I was introduced by BROTHANto a man called SIMQN?ILLNER, who was working for a man calledHAREI!G§ETSKE of the Belle Meade Farms in Virginia. This man,
GRETSKE, was interested in a process which I had developed in-
dependently for producing a high test yeast from citrus molasses.
This yeam was to be high in factors of vitamin B complex. Nothing
ever came of this, though, but I did submit samples of the yeast
and a proposal to HELLNER in New York City.
"In early Septenber of l9hh, after a period of several months,
during which I had not seen BROTHMAN, possibly since June of
that year, I met BROTHAN on 32nd Street, near hth Avenue,,on
the southeast corner, inside of a bar and restaurant. I had
previously made several calls to Chemrgy and had simply been told
by one of the girls that BROTHMAN was not there; either that or
there was no one there in the evening when my calls were made.
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"I would like to interpose here that sometime early in 191114,
BROTHMAN had taken me to this place on 32nd Street. The exact
address is llh East 32nd Street, and the office was on one of
the higher floors, about the llth or 12th. There was really no
office there at all, but there was a crude or sketchy sort of
laboratory. In this laboratory there was working one chemist,
a Negro by the name of GIBBS. GIBBS was, I believe, a graduate
of Fordham University, New York, and he was working on the pro-
duction of DDT, and also on the production of Chloral, one of the
two materials needed for the synthesis of DDT. My visit there
was extremely brief, and I have no memory beyond that of being
introduced to GIBBS.
"I would like to state here that at all times I used the name
FRANK KESSLER except on the occasion when I did work for B-G
woration of Paterson, New Jersey, and when I
made the estimate for Dr. NEELLNER; then I used the name HARRY
GOLD. ' ' "'-"*"""""_'
"I would like to state at this time that I gave BROTHMAN to
understand that my real name was FRANK KESSLER, but I gave him
the name of HARRY GOLD to be used as a letter drop or as a means -
of getting in communication with me. Very likely, had I not
done so, I would have lost complete contact with BROTHIMZAN and
would have been very glad to do so, but once having given him this
name, he could always send a. telegram to that address, and these
I could not ignore. I believe that the address used was that of
6823 Kindred Street, the present address of my father and brother.
This would mean that I gave him the name HARRY GOLD and the ad-
dress subsequent to June of 191111. At this time, only my mother,
father and I were living at that address. mr brother was overseas
until February of 19146.
"To continue about my meeting with BROTHMAN in September of 191111,
this was in the evening around 9:00 or 10:00 o'clock, I called
him from the bar and he asked me to wait there until he came
down. After a half of an hour, he did arrive and we had a
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"sandwich and then went for a long walk. This walk was down
Fourth Avenue and to the Wanamaker Store in lower Manhattan and '
possibly below that, and then back again, and then another com-
plete circuit down to the Wanamaker Store and back again. There
may have even been three complete circuits. We spoke for at least
three hours, and most of the talking was done by___§_E!_l'HMAN, and I
listened. The subject matter concerned the dirty de "TrI'TJ'.cn he hadgotten from HENRY comm, inns mm, and a G of the
Regal Chemical"'Co'5ahy of Brookanfew York. Aparently, what -
had happened was this; - _
"BROTI-{MAN had designed the aerosol bomb for I-EEILIG and had done
this for himself and for WEBER and not for GOIIIYNNE. When
GOLWYNNE found out about it, he asked ABE to turn over into
Chemurgy, his and WEBER's share of whatever profits would result.
BROTI-MAN refused to do so and told GOIHYNNE that he had never ~
received any money for the design of the Rufert Plant, and had
said that this was a typical case, and that, when he had asked
GOIWYNNE about compensation for it, GOUHYNNE had said, that as
a partner in Rufert, he, GOIJi'iYN'NE, had determined that Chemurgy
would do the work for free, because GOLWINNE was also a one-third,
and possibly a forty percent, stockholder in Chemurgy. When
GOIJRYNNE again, either on a subsequent occasion or at the same '
time, asked BROTHMAN to sign over his and WEBER's share of the
aerosol_process, BROTHMAN again refused and GOLWYNNE then said,
and this must have been on a subsequent occasion, Well, it doesn't
really matter because ARTIE WEBER has already signed over his share
to me, and furthermore, ARTIE WEBER and I, meeting as majority
stockholders in the Chemurgy Design Corporation, have voted to
oust you from the three-man Board of Directors.
"He then produced for .BROTi-[HAN a signed statement by EEIBER to
that effect.
"A week later, BROTHMAN told me he had found out, on the occasion
of a conversation with HEILIG during which HEILIG also asked him
to sign a paper stating that for a certain minimum compensation,
HEILIG was free of any further obligations to BROTHMAN, that HEILIG
had produced the paper from WEBER stating that all of the design
work on the aerosol process was WEBER's own and was not BROTHMAN's;
and that the process, in effect, belonged to WEBER and he in turn,
was assigning it to HEILIG. BROTHHIAN told me that at this time
there occurred :i.n the Chemurgy office, just subsequent to this, an
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"event during which asked §_1jl_Q[Ij_-g_g§I_to help him with some
design calculations; that is, the matters relating to some work
that WEBER was doing for the Kellex Division of the Kellog Com-
pany of Jersey City, a large process equipment firm. BROTHMAN
then said that he angrily turned on ARTIE and asked him why he
hadn't first brought up the matter of signing over his rights to
both Chemurgy and I-IEILIG without even mentioning it to ABE.
"I believe that there comes in here, particularly in regard to
I-IEILIG, the matter of the fact that one of the reasons that "
BROTI-{MAN told me why ARTIE signed over his rights was that HEILIG
had agreed to go to.bat,' as it were, with -ARTIE's Local Draft
Board in Brooklyn, to prevent him from being taken into the
service, and that this was also the reason for A.R'1IE's seeking
work with the Kellex Division, since this carried a very high
exemption priority. BRO'1i-IMAN said that he accused ARTIE of both
selling him out to sommy§_ and to HEILIG, and of a variety of
other misdeeds, and"'th'at finally he got so angry, he attempted
to physically beat up WEBER, and had only been dissuaded from
doing so by other people :i.n the Chemurgy office. The upshot of
the whole matter was that BROTHMAN was fired from both Chemurgy and
the Regal Compan and alon with BRO'IHM£.N there were th£g_wn outof work 050.513.}-115%, G , mm. amuse, and .mL:~as92§oRca1sN.
"KORCHIEN was an architect employed part time by Chemurgy, and -
a friend of ABE's. VAGO was a mechanical engineer and an ex-
tremely able draftsman. BARISH was a chemical engineer, and
WOLLAN was essentially a mathematician and a physicist, but was
working mostly as a chemical engineer. ABE said that several
days after the event occurred, and this was on the 15th. of August,
19111:, that these four people and BROTI-[MAN met in the laboratory
which had been used on 32nd Street, and had finally agreed that
the best thing that they could do under the circumstances was to
form a firm of their own. This was to be a firm which specialized
in developing chemical processes and then designing the equipment
for these processes. No laboratory facilities were available
since the space at 32nd Street was converted into a design office.
This was only one small room a.nd a partition was put in with a
desk for use of the members. The rest of the space, which had been
laboratory tables, was used for drawing. ABE told me that while
some of the others had contributed nominal sums such as $200 toward
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"the formation of the company, still they were practically - .. -
penniless, and that the principal funds had come from personal
contracts which ABE had for doing work for the Graver Tank
Company and work for the Bridgeport Brass Company. The work
for the Bridgeport Brass, I believe, had to do with the aerosol
dispenser. I do not know the nature of the work for the Graver
Company. ABE stated that he was to receive _something like
$15,000 from Bridgeport Brass, possibly $20,000, and something
like $15,000 from the Graver Tank Company. Now, whether he had
already received some of this money, I do not know, but the
general impression that I came away with was that a good deal of
the money still was to come, and this would be used entirely fore furtherance of setting, up the organization to be known as
"At either this, or at a later date, BROTI-IIJAN explained to me
that the reason for having chosen this'5ii1é"Tor the firm was
that they had all agreed that BROTHMAN was the only one of the
group who was well knov_m in the chemical process field, especially
through his publications for the Mcraw-Hill Company, and that as .
such, this name was more likely to attract attention and business
than a more descriptive one but one which did not contain the name
BROTI-IMAN.
"I would like to explain that the ingredients of the material
dispensed through the aerosol bomb were Freon 12, Sesame Oil,
Pyrethrum, and DDT. The Freon was the carrier and was a liquid
in the aerosol bomb and produced a fine mist when expelled through
the nozzle. The Sesame Oil was a carrier for the Pyrethrum ex-
tract, which last, provided the function of knocking down the _
insects. The DDT, while it did not have the high lcno..I.:-down of
Pyrethrum, still had a far greater lasting effect and was effective
on surfaces for as long as two years after they had been sprayed.
"It was as a. result of BROTI-!l!AN's work on the aerosol that he
{became interested in DDT, and it was on DDT that the Negro chemist,, was working in April oi l9h14. _
"The first time that I ever met NA0l_§I_§§_OTimA_§_was on an occasion
when I waited for ABE at La Guarcfia Field when he was due to
return from a trip to Washington in connection with the Buna-S.
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"This was sometim in February of l9h2. The only event that
occurred was that we took a cab to BROTHMAN's apartment, and I
continued from there to the PennsylvEIE_St§tion. We did have
one brief conversation in the men's lounge during which BRDTHMAH iii.
gave me some fragmentary information on Buna-S. It was also --->-»-
on this occasion that one of the times when I was supposed to have
received a complete set of data had been planned for.
"I would like to add here that on several occasions after leaving
- very late at night, leaving the Chemurgy offices that is, I drove
BROTHMAN over to Iong Island City where he lived near Skillman
. Avenue, and then took the same cab back to Penn Station. At this
time, it would have been impossible for ABE to get a cab driver to
take him over to Long Island City without the promise of a return
fare. "
"Regarding the subject of remuneration, BROTHMAN never received
any money as payment for work that he did for the Soviet Union,
but these events did occur. On at least two occasions in regard
to information that BROTHMAN said that he was obtaining for me
regarding the Buna-S, I paid him sums of $50, possibly one pay»
ment was $50 and the other $25. This was in connection with
blueprinting expenses. _BROTHMAN told me that he had to order
additional blueprints and could not do so at Hendrick without
arousing suspicion, so he would order them and would pay for them
himself, and this was repaid to him.
"In the summer of l9h2, I purchased for BROTHMAN a Voigtlander
camera which was of the cut film type or film pack type. This
was a second-hand camera and I believe that I had purchased it
at Kline and Goodman in Philadelphia. There is some 1>ssibility
that I may have obtained it from AL SLACK. BROTHMAN told me
that he wanted this camera in order to be able to take pictures
of his cnild or children. This camera cost me about $h0.
"On several subsequent occasions, I supplied BROTHAN with film
pack which was very rare, as was all film during this time.' I
may have obtained this film from AL SLACK about Christmas of l9h2.
Also, I purchased a scarab bracelet costing about $5 or $9, and
an umbrella costing about $5 or $6 for a girl in the Chemrgy
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"offices. This girl was a stenographer who had done a good
deal of typing for BROTHMAN in connection with work that he was
turning over to ms._N?§rticularly do I believe that she had .ai N",
typed a good deal of material on mixing. I newer met this
girl, and I do not know who she is, but BROTHMAN told me that
he needed a gift for her and so I made these purchases. I
believe BROTHMAN turned over one of them to the girl.a _
"In December, 19b5, I purchased a six-inch slide rule. This was
a Keuffel and Esser slide rule in a leather carrying case, and
is of the vest pocket type. This cost about $5 or $6. There
were two reasons for these gifts, and the gifts actually in-
cluded only the camera and the slide rule. he was that I
hadn't been able to see him for extended periods and felt some-
what guilty; the second reason was that I had been unable to
make any progress whatever, and this particularly relates to the
slide rule, in obtaining legitimate backing from the Soviet Union
for ABE in his enterprise.
"I would like to elaborate further on this matter of legitimate
backing. Starting in early l9h2, and continuing through BROTHMAN's
associations with Ghemurgy and into the period when he formed
h. BROTHMAN AND ASSOCIATQS, BROTHMAN, on many occasions, I would
say'at"least"six, openly and directly asked me if I could obtainlegitimate backing from the Soviet Union so that he could openly
set up an enterprise and do work on chemical processes for the
Soviets. when I first mentioned this to SAM, he laughed hilariously
and said that he had never heard of such d--- fool nonsense in his
life.
"First, I_would like to explain that by legitimate backing,
BROTHMAN meant sums ranging from $25,000 to $50,000. Also, he
envisioned setting up a complete organization, including a chemical
development laboratory, a pilot plant setup for carrying out pro-
cesses on a small scale, and finally, design offices. SAM, as I
said, laughed hilariously and said that such was completely out of
the question, and that BROTHMAN mst be mad. He again reiterated
his statement to the effect that the best thing that BROTHMAN could
do would be to obtain a job with a large industrial firm in the
United States; that it was information from such firms that the
Soviets wanted; that he was not interested in the slightest in what
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"BROTHMAN might dream up; and that the Soviets were interested
5El§I §rocesses which either had been or were going to be
actually recognize and operated successfully in the United
States. I could not take back such a blunt answer as this to .
BROTHMAN, so I tried to soften it some way by a variety of ex-
cuses including the general one that it was not feasible now,
and another one that such funds were not available right new and
a variety of other dodges, but as I have said, BROTHMAN repeated
his request on at least six occasions. These becam more frequent,
especially through the year l9h5, so much so that on this one
occasion in December of l9h5. when I did see BROTHMAN and gave
him the slide rule, he asked me in desperation for backing. This
was after a lapse of quite a few months, possibly four, and again
upon that occasion.BROTHMAN was very insistent.
"I would like to state here that I last saw SAM in February of
l9hh and that my next Soviet contact was JOHN, whom I have since
identified as ANLTOLI A. YAKOVLEV. On one occasion in l9hh,
and this was vEFy'Iate'1n'I9hEI possibly December, and after
BROTHAN had again asked me about obtaining funds for him through
the Soviets, I did mention this matter to JOHN. I did not get
very far, however, and I think, as a matter of fact, that I
don't believe that I got any further than EROTHAN's name. JOHN
grew very angry and said that under no conditions was I ever to .
meet with BROTHMAN or ever to get in touch with him again, that I
had been instructed by SAM, and I will elaborate on this last, and
that BROTHMAN was never to be mentioned again. I stated that I
never got very far, because I never got as far as this proposition
or as far as telling JOH that I had seen BROTHAN recently.
"With regard to seeing BROTHMAN, I would now like to state that
in Decenber of 191:3, and possibly January of 191,14, I was told by
SAM that there was an extremely imortant mission coming up for
me and that before he could tell me about the mission, he wanted
to know would I undertake it. I unhesitatingly agreed. SAM
then told me that the mission was far more important than anyb
thing that I had ever done before, and concerned matters of not only
immediate necessity but of world-shaking importance. He did not
elaborate upon it at this meeting, but did on a subsequent occasid,
but he did tell me on this first time that he brought up the matter
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"of the-important mission, that I was to drop completely any '7-
association with BROTHMAN and was never to ever see him again. W
I do not believe that BROTHMAN ever gave me any material sub-
sequent to the material I obtained in 19hh on the Rufert Chemical
Company, and this closes my association with &§§§§AM BROTHMAN on
behalf of the Soviets.
"I have read the above statement, consisting of 5? pages, and
am signing it as all statements contained therein are true, to
the best of my knowledge and belief. _
Signed! HARRY GOLD
July ll, 1950
' Phila. , Penna.
"witnessed: '
T. SCOTT MILLER, JR.
Special Agent, F.B.I. Justice
7' ll S0} Phi-18-3 P8-0O
RICHARD E. BRENNAN '
Special Agent, FBI _
July ll, 1950, Philadelphia, Pa-
"I wish to add the following relative to the Hotel Lincoln meeting
as set in my statement dated July ll, 1950, and appearing on Pages
32 through 36. This meeting was attended by SEM§QY,_BRDTHMAN,and mself. "'
"Some weeks later I was waiting for BROTHAN in Grand Central
Station in New York City; this was in the portion of le
station near the Graybar Building and where the ramp leads out
to Lexington Avenue. BRDTHAN emerged in the company of several
other men; because of these strange prople I nmde no attempt to
make my presence known to ABE. BROTHAN, however, saw me, and he
and a blond man left the group and came up to me. ABE said,
FRANK, this is ARTIE WEBER. WEBER then smiled and said, Shake
the hand that au66E £He*HEHE of ----, you know.
"I was very much disconcerted at this because I immediately
kne that WEBER was referring to ABE's meeting with SEMENOV.
However, I managed to make some non-commtal statement and no
further mention was made of this incident.
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"But the next time that I saw ABE, however, I did very directly *
ask him'whether he had talked to ARTIE about the Lincoln Hotel
meeting with GEORGE. QROTHMAN assured me that he had not and
no further conversation.¥5E'HEId on this subject. -.. I
Signed! HARRY GOLD
July 12, 1950
' ' Philadelphia, Penna. _
Wlitnessed:
T. SCOTT MLLER, JR.
Agent, FIBQIO
7-12-50, Phila., Pa.
RICHARD E. BRENNRN
Special Agent, F.B-I.
July 12, 1950 ,
Philadelphia, Pa." _
On the same date, HARRY GOLD in a signed statement gave the following
information concerning conversations he had with BROTHMAN relative to
their stories given to the EBI and the Federal Grand Jury:
"July ll, 1950
Philadelphia, Penna.
"I, HARRY GOLD, hereby make the following voluntary statement to
T. SCOTT MILLER, JR., and RICHARD E. BRENNAN, who have identified
A themselves to me as Special Agents of the Federal Burvau of
Investigation. No threats or promises have been made me, and
I realize that I do not have to make any statement, and any
statemnt I do make may be used against me in a Court of La.
I realize that I have a right to counsel.
"The events I am going to describe occurred during the two-year
period when I was employed by the firm of A. BROTHAN ANDgs_socngr_§:_§, of New m-1<. ~-
"The affair actually began one or two days prior to Memorial
Day, l9h?. I had been working in the Elmhurst Laboratory _ '
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"of the firm and had then reached the point where further work
- required nw going in to the Engineers Club Library in Manhattan";
The time was about 3:00 in the afternoon; I left the laboratory
and on the way to Manhattan got off they subway at Queens Plaza, -- -
so that I could stop in to the Design Offices of A. BROTHMAQ '
, which is located at 29-26 hlst A92f'eTnue, [Eng
Island City. The building in which the BROTHHAN Design Offices
are located is called the Chatham-Phenix. When I had emerged from
the subway, and just as I was crossing the street to the entrance
of the building, this is on the side of the street nearest the
subway, one of the B TI-MAN employees, an electrical engineerwhose name is was leaving the building. In the middle
of the street e accosted me and said, but not too excitedly, -
Did you know that some Government men are upstairs talking to
ABE? It may be possible that in place of the phrase, Govern-
ment men, that FANS!-[EL used the words Internal Revenue men,
I cannot exactly recall; in any case, I was not very much disturbed,
and went directly up to the offices with the purpose of ccnsulting
with ABE to see whether there was anything further beyond what
I had projected to look up in the chemical literature.
"The following conversation took place immediately as BROTI-MAN
approached me in the office when I arrived. While some of the
conversation is set forth in quotes, it is substantially what
BROTI-MAN told me upon this occasion.
"When I arrived in the office, §RQ_fjgAN,_was in a state of great
excitement; he immediately went forward to meet me.
"The first thing BROTHMAN said was, The FBI were here--they know
everything--they know all about us--they know. you wer..- a courier»
they have a photograph of you and me together in a restaurant.
Look, we don't have much time. Look, HARRY, you've got to get _
this straight. You have got to tell the same story I told of
how we met. Look, do you know this guy JOHN? I told BHOTHMAN
that I did not know JOHN, and asked BROTI-{MAN what he was like.
BROTHMAN then said, Look, HARRY, you have got to get this descrip-
tion straight 1 BROTHMAN then described to me a photograph which
he said had been shown by agents of the FBI to him, which photo-
graph BROTHMAN said was of JOHN. BROTHMAN described JOHN to me
as a wizened sort of fellow with reddish hair and a receding
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like 'oo1.1.Isu*" ". n"i¬F describing JOHN to me, snowman wanted
to knol if I got that? and I said that I had. BROTINAN then
said, Look, you have got to make some sort of story right sway
as to hour you met this man--remember-youve got to say JOHN
introduced you to me. Look, I told them that JOHN was an entre-
preneur, and that you and I worked together for him, with you
evaluating chemical prooesses.. I then asked BROTHMAN how the
FBI got the photograph of nnrself and him. BROT!-[MAN then said,
I don't know, they've got them--a lot of them--photographs of
everyone. ; _
"About the middle of this limited conversation, BROTHIULN said
to me, Someone has ratted---it must be that bitch HELEN L
BROTHIIAN also said to me, Those fellows out there are going to
see you-they may be on their way out there now. I promised them
I would not talk with you, _so don't let on that we've talked about
this. You've got to cover me up and tell them the same story that
I told you.
"BROTdMAN then began urging that I leave immediately for the
laboratory, although I wished to stay and have further conversa-
tion about this matter,_as the full import of it had just been
realized by me. '
"One of the last things that B THMAN told me before I left the
office was that Miss HI SKWITZ had left in BROTHMAN's
car for the office of GIB EEDLEMAN, who was an attorney em-
ployed by the Amtorg Trading Corporation.
"I left the office and returned by subway to the laboratory. On
the ride back to Elmhurst I thought of a man whom I had known at
the Pennsylvania Sugar Company. This man's name was CARTER
DLESS, and he had been about a year or so older d
complete control of the Pennsylvania Sugar Company, had been a
brother of C. R. HOOIJLESS. I had known CARTER HOODLESS very well,
and I chose him as the person whom I would use to explain theFBI as to the fictitious manner in which I had met J0 SH.
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"I would like to state that I had never heard this name before
until BROTHHAN told me that name a few moments previous to this' _ . .
"I particularly chose CARTER HOODLESS because of the fact that
he had died about four_'yé*5f§'1SrEvious. _
"I returned to the laboratory and tried to busy myself about nq
duties there. In about an hour, and this would make it about
14:30, two men entered the laboratory. They looked around and,
even though both were looking directly at me in the small space
where we worked, they asked, Is there a Mr. HARRY GOLD here?
I replied that I was HARRY GOLD. They said that they had Just
recently spoken with ABE BROTHHAN, and desired to converse with
me irther about some'ia_tt'ér¬"ia't he'd mentioned. These men
identified themselves to me as Agents SHANNON and O'BRIEN of the
Federal Bureau of Investigation. We went outside and sat in
O'BRIEN's car for a brief while until the personnel of the labora-
tory had gone home. Shortly before the agents had arrived, _!II_EI_Ag_,
BQSKH_ITZ_ entered the laboratory and told me that ABE had gone
home with a splitting headache. LIIPLIAM was still there, but was
on the po:i.nt of leaving, when the agents arrived.
"When everyone had gone home, the agents and I re-entered the '
laboratory and had a very long conversation, lasting from about
5:15 until about 9:00 o'clock that night. In the course of the
conversation I told them the following story. That in October
or November of 19141, I had attended a Philadelphia Section Meeting
of the American Chemical Society. This meeting was held in the
Franklin Institute, as they customarily were. I said that I had
previously agreed to meet'CARTER I-IOODLBSS at this meeting. I said
that when I had entered the meeting hall CARTER had gone forward to
greet me and had said that he had a friend here who was anxious tomeet me. CHTE rMuced to this friend, and had intro-duced him as JAG I OLLIS SH; I cannot recall now whether
BROTHMAN had told me durin our earlier talk in the office that
the agents had referred to the man as JACOB, or whether the agents
in their talk with me had referred to him as JACOB. I do recall,
and very distinctly, the fact that I was shown a number of photo-
graphs, possibly five or six, one of which was that of the small
wizened man with the receding hairline and a somewhat wry grin on
his features, whom I identified to them as the man to whom CARTER-
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"To continue with the story that I was telling the FBI, I told
them that after the Chemical Society meeting was over, and that _"
this principally hai consisted of a talk by some pnsminent
visiting chemist, this was the normal procedure; what business 1
there had to be transacted usually was done in Committee, and the
evening was normally completely taken up by the talk of a visiting
chemist, usually one of prominence in his particular field!, that
we, GOLLIS and I, had left CARTER HOODLESS and had gone into
downtown Philadelphia to a restaurant in the neighborhood of Broad
and Locust Streets. I had told them that this restaurant was
1endler's. I also told them that I went there with GOLLIS upon
his invitation. I continued with 'nnr made-up story. I said,
during the course of a. two or three hour ccnversation, that GOLLIS
had explained to me that he was a Mechanical Engineer and a p7'6'-5-".
moter, and that he knew a very excellent Chemical Engineer in
New York City. 'I had said that this Chemical Engineer was designing
processes for GOI.LIS, and that GOLLIS needed a Chemist to check
on the reliability of the chemical information that was being '
given. I said that GOLLIS had become very expansive and had ex-
plained to me that I would be paid well for this work that I was '
to do, and that he had painted a very glowing picture of the future.
I also said that GOLLIS had given me the name of _'1e man and his
office address and telephone number. The name that had been given
to me was that of ABRAHAM BROTHIIAN, and while I had not recalled
the phone nunber, mat he worked for the Hendrick
llanufacturing Company of New York City. GOLLIS, I said, had told _
me to get in touch with BROTHMAN in the near future, .:nd to meet
him and begin working with this Chemical Engineer. I also told
Agents SHANNON and O'BRIEN that GOLLIS had never given me his
address in New York, and further, that during his conversation he
had not struck me as "being a man who had the technical knowledge
necessary for that of a Mechanical Engineer. I told the Agents that
during the course of the conversation I had been somewhat taken in,
but that on calmer reflection a little later, the whole story
began to have somewhat of a false air. The next events that took
place according to this story!, were that I had called BROTHIJAN in
New York City, and after one or two unsuccessful attempts, had gone
to see him there. I stated that from the very beginning I was
fascinated by BROTI-iMAN's tremendous knowledge and ability, and that, _u 1 - -
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"from the very first we had become close friends. I stated that I
made, during the period from November or. December, 191:1, until
sometime in late Spring or early Summer of 191.12, some six or -
seven trips to see BRO'11%_l_I_, all to New York; that on several -
of these trips I hid worked at BROTI-!llAN's home in Sunnyside,
Long Island. I stated that on two or possibly three occasions
BRO'I l-IMAH had given me some design material consisting principally
of isolated blueprints of various reaction vessels, and that I
had taken them home with me. I further stated that about three e
or four weeks after I first met GOLLIS, that he had called me at
my home, he had obtained my home address and telephone nunber from
me on the occasion of our first meeting!, and that he said that
he had merely verified on the occasion of this first call that I
had gotten in touch with BRUPI-MAN. He had also said that he was
just passing through Philadelphia and could not see me that evening.
I stated that there were possibly some three subsequent calls, .
each about a month apart, and that on each occasion GOLLIS had
been very evasive when I asked when I could see him. I then
stated that subsequent to February or early March of 19112, I had
never heard from or seen GOLLIS. I further said in my statement
to the Agents that BRO'I'i-l1rLl.N and I had not discussed GOLLIS very
mucn, but that on one or two occasions when we had, we had come
to the agreement that he was just a fly-by-night promoter with
no substantial funds to back up his enterprises, and that BROTHHAN
and I had both agreed that we doubted that we would ever hear .
from him again. On the occasion of making this statement to
Agents SHANNON and 0' BRIEN, I told them, upon their questioning,
that I did not know but what these two or three blueprints that
BROTI-IRAN gave me might still be in my home in Philadelphia.
"The entire preceding story which I told Agents SHANNON and
0' BRIEN of the FBI is completely false, and is a product only
of my imagination. The only item reseubling truth in it is that
concerning the blueprints which I did actually pick up from BHOTI-[MAN
early in our relationship, but these blueprints were not picked up
at the behest oi GOLLIS, whom I never knew, but on instructions
from another person. .
"The interview with Agents SHANNON and O'BRIEN was concluded
about 9:00 o'clock that evening. About 9:30 HOSIQOWITZ and
BROTHMAN came out to the laboratory in BROTHMIT'"s car. It may
be possible that they had called before leaving for Elmhurst to. .
see whether the agents had gone. In any case, when they arrived,
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"time three of us went to eat in a restaurant along means Boulevard
in the Rego Park section of Queens. This restaurant is called
'Sunny'e of Chinatown. We had dimer in the restaurant, but
before that and while we were still in the laboratory, BROTI-IRAN
had wanted to know how I had carried off my conversation with
the agents. Just as I was going to reply, __LgQ§K0wI'1fg__interrupted
and assured ABE that I had been extremely nonchslant when the _
agents entered. I told BROTI-!.1l_Q_i_ that I believed that the whole
affair had gone very well.
'ABE's opening remark to me after getting into the restaurant
was HARRY, you don't blame ms for having brought your name into
this, do you? I thought since they would eventually uncover you
because of our long close association, that it would be better
_ for me to bring you in myself and at the very beginning. The
long close association towhich BROTHMAN had referred specifically
meant the manner in which I had been working for ABE at A. BROTI-IIIAN
AND ASSOCIATES since May of 191.6. There was not very much con-'-" ""'_
'e?t'sa ¬I'¬ff'd1i'ng our meal in the Chinese restaurant, and we
returned to the laboratory about 10:30. I still had a consi-
derable amount of work to do that evening. when HOSKONITZ went
out on an errand, possibly to obtain some coffee, I related to
BROTHHAN in detail the story that I h-_-d told Agents SHANNON '
and O'BRIEN. I recall that BROTHIIAN said, Look, HARRY, I got
to know all about you. What can they find out that I don't know?
I than told BRUPHMAN that in reality I had never been married,
and further, that aw brother was still alive and had not been
killed in the Pacific, and that I lived with my family in Phila-
delphia. I had previously told BROTHMAN that I was married and
that my brother had been killed in the Pacific. I recall that
BROTHLIAN made many recriminations for nw having told these false-
hoods, but he said that he did not think these points would be
serious. The greater portion of the conversation at the above
time consisted of my telling BROTHIIAN the same story I had told
the agents about my fictitious meeting with JACQB__QQLLLS_, We did
not have any time to go over BROTHllAN's story"E5 the agents about
the manner in which BHOTI-MAN net me. At this time ABE and I
_ realized that there was a discrepancy in the stories we had
related to the FBI Agents. I had told them that I had originally
met BRUIINAN in 191.1, but ABE had told the Agents that he had
met me in 19110. He decided to belittle the importance of this
discrepancy, and at that time ABE told m that I could always
use the excuse that my memory was faulty. BROTHIIAN expressed
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"concern to me that I might have had other dealings in aw
association with the Soviets with which he was not familiar.
"I would like to explain here that my actual contacting BROTHMAH
from Septenber, 19141, to sometime in 191-ah was for the purpose
of securing from him technical information in which the Soviet
Union might be interested. The true part of nnr story to the
FBI Agents, that is, my obtaining blueprints from ABRAHAM
BROTHMAN, was actually in connection with my activities on
behalf of the Soviet Union. .
"Continuing, BROTHMAN seemed worried that he would become
involved with the FBI because of his known association with
me, and for that reason wanted to lmow what other activity I'd
engaged in other than with him. I told ABE at this time that
no one knew of any of my other activities, and suggested to ABE
that he should not mention any other activities of mine in front
of anyone, particularly MIRIAM MOSKOHITZ.-.--....---4.-Zr!"-'
"From the first time that I met BROTHMAN, up until the time I
went to work for him in May of 19146, he did not know my true
name, as I had originally introduced myself to him under the
name of iM_ He also knew that I used the name of
HARRY GOLD, but he did not know whether either one of these
mames was my true name.
"Continuing with the conversation at the laboratory, I told ABE
that I was a little concerned about the explanation for mr using
the name of FRANK KESSLER in my dealings with ABE. I suggested
to ABE that the FBI was certain to get in touch with ARTIE WEBER,
and that _A_1fcTIE W__'E§E_1_f._only knew me as FRANK KESSLER. at this time
I suggested to ABE that it was possible that I could use the idea
of nnr fear of Dr. GUSTAV T. REICH, my superior at the Pennsylvania
Sugar Company, as the reason I was dealing with BROTHMAN under an
assumed name. The fear would be based on the fact that I, as a
chemist of the Pennsylvania Sugar Company, would have been criti-
cized for doing independent work on chemical processes outside
of any work at Pennsylvania Sugar. BHOTHMAN thought that such
an explanation would "be a very shrewd stroke indeed. At this
time BROTHMAN suggested that as an additional explanation for
our association, that we make up a story that we were collabo-
rating in writing a book on chemical processes, with ABE
writing the book and my doing the chemical background. I was
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"dubious about this story and believe that I only used it upon I
one occasion and that was when I was questioned by Agents T. S.
MILLER and R. E. BRENNAN between Hay 15 and May 21, 1950.
"During this conversation with BROTHMA_1}I_ he ment' ned severalnames to me, one of which I rec':E'.[I'was ER, and
asked me if I had ever used any of these names, adding that the
FBI Agents, SHANNON and O'BRIEN, had mentioned these names to
BROTHMAN. I told ABE that I had never used any of _these names,
which was true.
"Either that night, or possibly the following night at about
3:00 o' clock in the morning, as BROTHMAN was dropping me off
at the Pennsylvania Station on 7th Avenue, in front of the main
entrance, he said very bitterly, What sort of a damned fool is
it who takes a person so closely tied in with all this affair
and obtains for that person a job in Philadelphia?' The person
to whom BROTHMAN was referring was THOMAS L. BLACK, a friend of
mine since February of 1933, and BROTI-{MAN was "specifically referring
5 to the fact that I had been instrumental in obtaining employmentI for BLACK on a consulting basis with the CH.ARLES__Y;>92E'RG Laboratories _
. in Philadelphia. This event had OCOU.II¬d_SiJiB1'
…[truncated]