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x.m1'1'm UFFIOIAL van ' 98 '
, o no Objection to his iarroahtng nia-rooolloobioo $5 <
~ oooumopol, Mr; Chairman! bot jtdo hays oojgottono bio _q f*
3 »j pg-o1a¢oa=1@»= u1:n 1h'Qi:¢$5_w1¥huii'tavné§;b$§fi* F3
+_____T,pg§§9t._f;And,I,_thenoto2§,"uou1d*11ke-§he-chair-to;d1ri6E-* »
the nitnll not to do ao.- -'1 L ' ~ -w -oi?
- v . ' . . _ - ' '
1_lA92Pll_l__!I|lEnI.88 1:1! aooqition» 15" -". ~-_ , . - *' | . . H |-. ._~verity you ¢l§os or nio ampio§gpn§ by =.i5§5§a;¢@5+§§i£E§g§
1 tlono with fho pfaaont omoloyoo and also orovlous empl5y§?ii '
' ' - A jfprobably could get my pfiolnb imployeog '
1 - I probably 00o1dn'tig0t-thn previous--I ion-= know who§h§¥ '
1F. the.o1d ram =§a£@m,_you know.a1nce tho City pa: taknn gnii
.15 ovor,I qon'o gnaw whether i oouid get =Ay"inr=ama1¢a §§3§ 2
jhare oqiuot. c_1on'!: know. " - ' ' ' "
-_ - HIE CHAIRMAN; Dogs the witnooa have -documantd
,_ home notch uoulrgliverity or afresh hiomemory in theao . '
;,f_8Bpl01i92l;_ cool! his dtoohorgo paper: hb-oi: §_h_e
-,: - A ,1_oavo the discharge papers from kho.Army.
_ ' A -'l1iE _C1_i{92IRI41l92N192 ...-tho employment raooz-4-l'tha.t.
_ 39¢ @151-,1; hgyq flgd out tor applications, hny other dioiriv
Quotas be pioiaoo or hovidenco boob actually prove to you}-
";j"m1n¢ the datéseiovo}ved? 1 think the dates are vary amporuonb.
r,» 3.3, .=- - ___: , A ; "1.epu§d |3et~_the um now, of my omp1'oymon"""'
_ . | 7 *1! _bh_e:da_ta:§of my_Army aorviao, but an far as_tho eaa
. V: - ' _ , I . _ _. _ _ _ . .x - .date to ohoo':'1;a¢92c, I don't know utnetho;-I infill. -Boob- ". 1 '
Q ' _ __ - _ I 92 . ' ' ' in...~r.'~ ~ I I . ' . - " ' ' . - 1 ' _ .-- < 92 :_.._:4 *5. .":-_<;~. I-83 ' I,i. .
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o LIMITED orrxcxan usa~ - i 99 '
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rd which I think po|oib1yio.in tho trunk; my roo" ;'' -- ' . <,. . 1 . . _ , _ .. _. < . . - ~. ~ K. '
or boing pmpioyod by the tar Suboy oyahéu, or boing on oyia: 1¢,o ~n »= » h.> - A = = -" £>= =-_,_-; ._i..
; And tnon_whon tho cit? took it over-~4'~ i i
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-. -¢- -';#A --~thot in brobabiy in tho trunk, out aia§3I»,
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3- .j'&f1mc_11AImM{g '1 think oi; tho dotoa are vo.1'; _»__._|}';_. ,. ___ __ , _ _ - 92 _ . - -1 -. .,-1-- "
importontq Mr. E1nya, [2 think oops .r@f,.;n;p-;no»;-io¢a§§=. |,_. I 92_ _ A __ I - .-- .
ant hhon others ndfl think 1o1iva§y"v1éa1 inoa you a.@a».
mine when you went to work with your prooonb ompioyori :~~
"JI.-*1?-A 'nxgnu; -=¢ -~'"f '17 .* {E
4_;i{THE:CHAIRMAN: who oahoo on which §ho'pron1oei
ur'Aoarc=ooe é:1=we£a v§5aeea;§no ¢.¢a on onxqu tho n§§J A
loasao oaoumed=oocupanoy Ind things of thou oorb. I think -
-those dates aro vory important lnd_ir you oould refrooh '~
fyour memory on nnooo factors and he ready no hootity on. . - n ' -
atnon iqmoo1otoiy,nftor1unoh, i-think no should iooool"
, _ ~ . 1 0- 1
;unti1 1:30 or so, Houid that give you int? ."o
A ; Thdh would-give uh time, I thinks " '
. _. _
J - _ , 1MB CHAIRMAN: would bhab be oonvoniont to yon;
Mr. Rana? 'L' t , _ i ' -. .A -
_> _ 41-92:¥ "'3*" M,!AQD:' I'm auro no more inconvenient than
'ih nou1d'bo §o!§bu gentlemen. will the chairman roqueot4%
he winooa Foo p qiaouos>§hin_mat%ep uith_hia_wifo'or_A~
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~" @_ ".' Lxnxmnb oazcxan us: Y
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:57. ~ . . . _- .92; 2-'~ .. _A . .! ..._-- .¢'-->5-- '.-I _ ~ -,='.- " . ">-__.,.'> " . ,>-'. : n--'1. .. _~92-»-'92» -" u-- ': ' -_ »>L:£-"'1'» -_'_-:.*_-4.L --------~ -~/5-.._'~' !~"44 »'~ - , A --uh-L"* " J4-92-2'»-&n-nnn.g 1 -_'.., ~- ~% ~*92' *__
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namxwkn OFFICIAL vSn' 7100
».- 45, was CnaIRMAN1_ u¢1;, ziraaxiy don't knuwlphht ui .
§r¢=5g.=§§.>aq un_chAt; H:i§u:§r§gey_n§£d t§ tat} 5 inn ,§;Z1' . 1
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' errom-In! diaauasionb. ' A Z. t . r? ms . - b .'
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Mbean cafrtad hh have thin morning. I 0Bh¢P N°P¢l;.!'1§
;%have been mahtionedthara in relation to ant of the tahtaittgttgik to his wlfI,. fJg§i?ff»T ltjif-§5;ihrAiH_F?
. 4~-_ - _ 1 ,
matt0r.*{! hate ho objection, 3. chgirnn;-to his havtn-'
.1unah hith him-warn Ind ta1kin3_hbout any énég attl§§';;.' A 5 ' -- .v >._ I ' _ ..-,~». .' .. ;- A ' 3: . ' _ ~ ~__~~< . _ _ 1. '-" <¢_ g|1_1;h"hQ92|__w.';=: - El .2 _ £1 _. _l:_:~= . -t -'. :5
= Q mun CHAIRMAN! I don't know what the Infordtméhtg. J . N
procadurta uohld hu§, »! » _ v M =3 "V 'fr '
I ' 1'h~T " [Off-the-rioord iucuealodl *5?-=» ;- fyee
L -' .-run CHAIHMAN|_ 2 think, linoe no havé 1na1¢at¢q_
W 1bqthro thin iéiah 1pthha1.broa§od1n¢ Bhitthh queutibhgéf"' v - I 1
ghat power: th§'punq1 n1ght_hava; the limltattcna on thiib
powoéa and nutharit§, that I can ask Mr. Bliyn to refrain
" 92 . ' . -_-I. ' _ ~- - ,'_ '_-"-IA. --3}'}..A we;x, the Ohly thing 1 would hlvl to didauil ,'1 1-, --' - > . -. : ' _
with hi: probahly in where h lot of the rooorda ire ksbt § _ . ~: '. - _ ' I . - ' - I . iii
.-' " THE CIMIHMANI H I lnlh; ll! $0 Nhl QIBDO lll'B ' -v : ~ - ; _ =
Qportineqy in 駧ar»ha the line or questlbninguthlt has
ham that ,5 not discuss with her cut spaciflo datl uuhI . ' 1 -
_o1rcmatF92i9eq that_Couna_e1 la 1:;.~_;,{_1ng; towleatabliah f
zthejrehrd. ?Ih4othor§nr§, it 11l'ba'hi1 tight tor §6 __u
Q-_ : . gt, ¥] _ % . .?§? Ppvji * ~t :LIMITED.0FFICIAL us:
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4I _l I .I,* Lmmzn onmcm. uss = ~ mi"
akzhzur whnr-'0 than rooardi are, and qhtbgé at that ' rh
_ _- _ 3. ' .
but__i1of:__;_o'd1aouaa o¢cpp_u-11;"_19u9, @r'an'y;¢;~bb1t1¢aqu_ 5- _ 92_ b . _ . _ _ _ -4- ~.- ..., . .~
My rotate as than ctroumatancn. = * "
_ . ' r_ . .
' f-_Hi?_;. ;-.__._ Iy92§_I_D_:_ _H11X.'.thu Chair» also?--tnqtruotr tha"w1'§8
. ' _ , I .
neaa not ho discuss tbs qubatanoe of any 0: this minor; '1
1 hnvftilo-_o'b,1ec1:_ion to his laking whqra 'pu*tl_6u1a"r? gaébeis I
; . 1__ .,,_-- -.,_.', .-__' -are loozqd, but I éhouid 1t1qino::_a 0'1 the iiainlaanoé ti
dluouaahd with any other witness; . _ - '
-I -THE CHAIR!-IAN! I thtnknthat la Q maaonable -'
raquuat and I ml: Mr. Blwvnto lbtda by ihafrcquelt.
.--"A {A11 right, ' ' 1 . -_> -I -.- -- . _, . 3 ,- .. ".~ '-- . . . . . < . >;'- ,. _.- .. _ , _;- THE _c1LA1'RMAN:' 11111.1; atimeifdamunt for Ii iaziiiiil
and we can recbcs at this point and reoonvona this afhéé
noon at*1;30. 5 - _ . »
7 * . 92| . ~_ » . _.Y ' l . .
4 2 - ['i'hb Board recessed at 12¢1O 'pQm~' =
.1_;o-reconvanp at 1130 p.m.] ' "> -
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~-:Al. "2 _ . "Q can n6_nou oak you to rastato for the rocobd
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- LIMITED UFFICIAL usn ' .162
__ . K_'[Th6.B0Bfd woo rdoonvoned at 1q§O pom.]-l "j
- ~ . . _ _ - 'v_ | ' - '__ _' '. ' -_ 1.. .____ .- .. . -_-|- . _ ~.._- ._-'I- » I vi
~- " . =_mum CHAIRMAN: The hearing will be resumed; " V
»'- . ' - _ '-
Hhereupon, _' _ ~ ' _ n -
J§f@ .- mwwnwmommmdj; ~ =*
--" ' :' ' -. . ,'.'_ -- ..1 .-92_ - !*-
having boon pvev1oun1y.auorn, rooumed the stand and tostti
Tied further an follows; - , ~ ~.-
qunswzons BY TUB cnAIRAN|' . " 'o .
__ * h q _ 1-think, to |avo_t1me, perhaps the bait '
thing to do io to aak Mr, B1wyn_1f he had an opportunity
to refresh his mdmury on tho dotoo thot no were-tqlkin
about Just before the luncheon rooeaa. ' -
. _A you; _Te majority of the dates, yea. -
_ . - ~ .
the dates or your adploymntf ._ .'§ * -' - .
' ' A That: fight. .- n ' l
_ ' Q =h3tart$n5 back before the war, iour oarviob
,_ .0 .. , I . -
in tho'drmy, your prudent omployment, the period of your_
. . _ _~
preaont employment, and_n1ao the dates ° 4hich you any
hat you have huén Mr. Dayton. _ A '
" ,h A J You. U911,-I_otartad to work for the aubw y
in 1931. 1 norkod'ther9 unggz §he_ta11 9I_194Ta And I, -
ed in §h§_§bunt;y f0fono_§0af;-fromuthlnfall of 194?u-v» . > i , - .92.; 1 - '
_._. ,1; __ _ . .
LIMITED OFFICIAL U38 .1.
1
'-i_¢_";:I;$'_ :-%-"'> :92_i'_;»' - KJ---.~__-.-» 4-»,~'-.&~' 4-r - ~= 4+ *40
O I A
I. _ 1 that fO,11t.='.J__192'92g fall, Tootober 19148; I ' I
. _- ~ . - -
~ } ."]Q Hy the country, you noon--= _.LIMITED OFFICIAL van " 103
I;>_»
- ~'- ' ' " "I". ' ' . - - -l .- -_ 1 ~~ ~;:A It wan Hoodntock, New Iork.- '
;l_-;-L-r_- _A- #;~q?Y3=Q~ ~Wovdatook,"New~York,"is"that fight? I"
" "' A That's right. Then I started to work tor.
> tho Corporation on Ootobor 19b8 and am still tnofo at tho
present time. » , FyY .=I "
. ' Q Tho Corporation being? _ _ _
A The 65 Morton Street Realty Oorporotion¢'
Q . Wimt id the date that you Bay you nan '
_ - Mr. Dayton sitting in Apartmont 6-I at 65 Horton street,' I . - _ 1 - _
._ . nttmz 8tthB'_ca1~d table? '* 7 "
1 - ' A I figure that out to be in 1949, in 19149.
And to the bent of my knowledge now, as I couldn't rarer
_- to my office when that apartment'nao rented, but to thec . ' .
- beat of my ability it was rented, no tiguno, on January ia
. 1950, that the apartment was re-rented. J A -
* --qunsnons BY rm. mmm A ' .
I ' . .
r Dz - "I Q Hhou you nay "we figure", what do you mean,
F11. Elwyn? ' _ -
L . 1 .' ; A 'i¢@ is the nay I am speaking about figuring.
_.. : .
'*1IIluBQ I tried to get the office and I got Mr. Gorrloc a
. . ' 92 . .
* _: wife on the phono at her homb- I couldn't get him;_ I ;
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LIMITED uFFIOIAL us: - 10h
ad hnr if sho knew onything hbout it; aha sold aha .
didn't; but she said, "That Q: about tho_h06t nay you 6' '. . A . - . . _- --- ' 4 -. -_' ro"!{-8o that in why I bay Q00", booaudl I had §oo-
_ _' . . ..
§p6lK_§OU$h9_bu5J about_gett1ng certain datoaw-**; ~
_' '.. Q .Y0u1d1dn'G upeak to the bos|;.41d you? I,zx
2. . .;A Q " No, I couldn't git him. <-1:: ~ _ * -
'"=-="» Q Did you speak to Hrs. Oerrlook instead, id '
. that 1:? 1 _ _ _
;-' I Yos. l - > .
. --;- Q Hue 1: har rooolluctlon 1t"nan in uanunry or
1950, n1rQ'_ ~ - u .
'.YA'"A ' $he nnxa as was tho possibility that it iii in
1950. She told m that I would have to watt until 1=een'
in the night to not the information because aha would nob
youoh for this informat1on_ahe pan giving. _
. . _ . ~ x '
_u j~A=x q nid she toll you the month when this una;.1
Mr. Elwyn? . ' - -
A ; No, aha 61¢ not. , .;. z '
Q Q Hon did you determine that month then? ' _
' ' A I dotarm1nod.th0 nonthbeoaus0 I sat down fhé
onto in my rent book. '.
', q Did you rarer to your rant book during the "dohreoasa-I? I H. - - -"
'- '- ': 5 2 Yns. '1 wont homo._ - I
. - -.I-- . -. .--~ . <A92-, 1 - _
. . 4 ~ - 1 -__ - 92 > .
" "_ Lrnxwnn orrxcznn us: *
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IJIMITED OFFICIAL usn 105 -
Q Did you bring_tho rent book with you, air
A T did not, beoeuee 1'm not allowed to_oe
- P008 DOOR out. ..- ' . ' "
was re-rented
I
h .,92-
.' ,A qunsnous BY '1'm.: cru92InMA_N| _ _ _
Q _ so, based on your.raoorda non--..~
A
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on
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- apartmnt.
Q,Un my reoorda dated in the.reot book. 7 §
---your'reoo11ootion is that this apartment
to tho present oooupant--- . '
Thnt'B right, _ -» ; L ; . _,
--7on or about January 195O,'ie that right?
'1'hat'B right.-1' A -» ~
And that, prior to that time, you reoaileda-H
Prior to that time I seen~Mr. Dayton in the
. 1 -Do you know what month or ubeo it was that=
_ you aaw him, Hr. Elwyn? >. - ~ _ _
A If it in prior to that, I would nay it ie
,F? "' in December.
-. ~
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_ '~¢ , . . . _
Q I You think it is in Dooombor of '49 that you
.-i" aaw him sitting in the apartment? .
!4 '1 _
A ; '1=hut'a right. "
¬iIP MR; RAND: May I inquire about that? . _
3. .43: ' - .
sig __ homo?-,1 3 5. TH CHAiRHAH:A Yeo~" j -E 3 =d - .= H
IHnnnz; whore do you_koop your rant book it f
'0 _. »
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_ . _ .92_ . -- A - , _ .. _ . | , .. , - I . - -_ . . ~.= . . ' 1 . ' - _ , . " -- - .---»- _. -..--- - -- .. 1: _'¢;.|-- ".;_ =,§;_;___ ,___ ;,___.;.__92 ,1._:_-_ Hy... l_._, _, _ l92_.¢ ...-._44._- .'|___;- _,--,5__-;_ U _ _ i - -Qt; ~ _:_~ I _>A__4.I + r V ~~_92-_.._.. _.
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921E ,1}iuntitlod to hQve_thi rent book here, ainoo he referred to. LIMITED ovrxcznn us: "106
' A I_eap it looked up,-or oour§al_1 ~
;P' MB.Ihnub} in iharn§"$- T-}Ji?f:a{' ,
_ - ' _- - - _._. ~ I
- :- A" I think that's my business, u1r.' - ' '-
--'4 ' ' -_ ._ .1 -l EBB Cnn;RmAN1~In~your-premtpeaf' '"-* ' '7-
,k.§$%}h jItI9 th my promises; ..-¢~ I , tn
* -P7?@ THE 0HAIRhAN:_ I think that anluobn your qua;-_
_ .. E. - __7 - _ , -
tlon} doaan!tw1t, Mi. Rand?"q;, ' . >. =;~=; .
A.. . . A '92
~ . _ HR.BhuD: No, and I have some further quoatlono£,v
I don't think that dnaweru the QUQBt1ODoL I think we orb
. l ', . - . . ,
;1u during the §5¢@aa, ua'u= testified. What 41¢ you clad
- _.. , - . . . _, , _
_1n that gont_nook'wh6n you refarrad to it Homing the 16536
' . >2 - ' - . I, -0 .
reoeaa, Mr. Elwyn? f
' 3
A I referred to it to look up dates.- I
- -MR.'RAI-ID; .,_Yes,Al_>ut-- "
t&*l" ff.1I.E3IPES{92 M§}30ha1rman, the nitnsun r0£roghe&:
- - 2- . l .
his gocolleot1on.. I do't sea why we havo_to have tho4'| - ,
rant book hero. .ue have the nltneaa' teltiuny onaor oath:
4 ~ 92 0 .
:5 1' , MEL RAD:' sure; he had other testimony uhdar.
loath this morning. I would like to know how he refreshed
I -5'- I - - . '
,n1a runoaxeocxpn-in in bani and a half. And 1 think 1 am. > ' . r I ." ":. ' I: 4 ' "~11
entitled to knuh that. . u '
-<unn~. 7' .= h ~
§_ w,*'°*_THE CHAIRMAN: would you itato again for the 'L- _I ._ _ _ - -- 92 . , - _ '.- . - ..- '. - I I -
ré oid thondoqodéhtabyoo roiorrad to durlng tho 1unohion'l;Fl-.: ;. ,;a,- =, - +: . P. * " "' " " ~
I _" A Limlqnn OFFICIAL us: "
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. =3--and 92oy1foo0rds' ofifbm _¬hE_.'¬1.'i:éTABl_ i}51B§£w§1i --
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ac to refresh your memory, Mr. Elwyn? " " - J -
_' _ . . . ,92- . . _
-92 K _A '_I rctorrou o my rot book and I reforro 5~~
_ }nccuc tax forms to tlna out the exact hind, mi tormi
book which I géncrally data, which onco in I while I fori.
got to oats u6b'o ocnano oomoo in or goon ou£. _Thoy -83 l
'ganora117fdatcd=though.. 3'iJ: . o »f7 7 J" "_:92
_' I ., _ -
. 3 I 1" l_ <' . ' l: - - ~ .' » _. ' -
QUESTIONS BY HR. RAND; - . ' .
_, Q _If I may loqulrq, how manylront books do
.-. ".I , It, _ , _ > . _
you have, Hr. Elwyn? - - AA_
. _ , -r .
3 ~ um A "i=havq one rent book. - 1.- ' '
¬| I I . . . l I .
Q _Fur cu? onoire period all the way back to. '
19487 . o
-I puvo oho_gont book back to 1932.
uThut'1o'1n one book? u -
.. .-¢_92..__ - ;~" <~-». . _-= _. ' 1 - _ .
A 4 Yano v H 1 3;_|
1 !
. _J Q
- Hhnn you wont book to you_apa:tmenh th1n_ '
o, i;.; . , _
_gfternoon, wpct did you look for tn that rant book, air?.3 ~
_..:" l -, -I I " . ?'c A i i uaa"Juat looking for Q dato, that's all;
{i ' ' Q 1 wnnp Qote, air? I mean, how did you deter-
; _ , .. .r ..' I
mine this? 3uw'd1q'you rofroah your recollection, by 1oqk=-. . I , . _ _ .
Q in§ho_r'nt book? wi11_you tell us exactly what yo ,
' ZA , -_ . __.- A . _ _ _. . I * ' .. - - .-- .,_' -1couod_at'on what you found? Y '- s ' -T 5Q j- *3"-
:u% _ T7 A_ ;wc}1,;i can ro£rooh"my memory by.1ook1ng {of. = #- 1 " -.%'w J Ly <v = "
- - LIHITBD OFFICIAL U8E-
~ _ _C .. | ii_.. V _.,_ -.....-7 _
¢'-sfJiQQmA5Em;;;%;;l;@; ah;h4¢amm;;~H..
Lia-92
1
4 __,_.-_.__,f___
92
L .4
x l
. III
O l
I
ti. I. A
fa»
I
J
fa
w
. J
.7. . .» » . - :- , ,_ _ _ . ,_ .- .. - . . L. . t - . » . -- 92 _ -92 . . .. . . . _ . . .- . . ._ . . .' - _ A _ - _ .4 u * A J A A A 92A-F-~-Ln!-1A ~- -.. ;..'.:.»_r_.. ¢¢¢¢ -92..._..._.a.L,.__92_.a>:~,4-;~ - --,4 - _ i AP 1" 3' 1- "'
LIMITED vFrPIcIAL usrz 108
or people moving from one apartment to tho other or-
_ _ . . 7 . '. p
5 ~_a;§ Q "_Yon, but what a1d'youA1ook'at'during thin
____ A n raqaaol -was la nha_t__:_'4 like c6_|mpw,' hp; nan;-ni""'
#1 _ 5p_;§i_ 1:016, y_ou-§|ha~I» looked-at~.~?-' *- "7-* "é 7
_ ' ; "Q '1 don't nu: um anavmr, nu-. Chairman. ax.
think ad are qufpitled to lcnofpljshil. what pagan otf=thu i
. _ 92 _ - -
rent book did you 1qok'for2'. What pagoa did you look at f
and mm datab Qua gnu rum hrA1tten_dov|n there, n£~.'n1§.y§v?
p _ A. yhg only thing I lookod back in that rent
hook was back to the year that! raga:-edithou the apart-< . _~ . .
"'modt waa rented; . - ' I _ . " A-
. .1 - "i ' I '5 .
~ _. ' _ Q =Uhu_t year was that? ' _ q
- -. K,
A fm<1 1' got mu; marked 1949-1950. '
. _ .q U1;1 you daaoribo tor no exactly how that _
paga looks, whc;g_you have it markadi You have Just Iookad
at the pagan, gou_have told ua._ -Q. _. _ =a
K , Ir. . . 1 I: . - _
, ~ 'A- That! right. ' ' - A _$
. :. . I.. . - " I . , aw-_ I" - , Q Z Hun doaa that page appear in your rent bouh§ h
You have ;uaf;_1'-Jonceq at ,' - A _ ,
' A -_ Hon does that paga appéar?_
_ Q 5 deb, how iaitthnaddd? ' -
Un the top of that page it aayu, "Rants to " _A
year: 19"9."¢.1950."., . ' . -
, . .-.2-_92v .- _ I. _V- E. I . __92 > _-_ :¢ .' _ . _ -_ _:_»Q ,?hgt appeara at the topv of thiazi-o 1 __ -
-_..,-- - A - - _'A- . I - ,. .._ -
I . 92 .I - .- k Lxrarrxm OFFICIAL uss "
£-
. } ' '
:3 .
4
U.-
Q
¢ s
» -:-,
@F
92 K
l
I
1.
i 4.
'92
. pi-9»' : '1.I
1
® -J:
I _.!" 92A
--...LINITED OFFICIAL USE - ---109
You, 65 Morton Street. 4 : _ " f__ .
o*';§ -yam looked at that ¢§g6!1= Quit right; 5 if
. _ That's _ _ v_ _'-_ _1A -_ _7 '.-- :'- A
' ' . .
.~-T-L-Q ~Ann-whatdid~you~find~on"that*pagewhich"*a".". - 92
rafrlahaa your,veco11aotion1 -lhat notation did you :1n&, ' Y -' A 4. * .|' . =_ ' ' . . -
-on that page, mt. Elwyn, that refreshed your raoo11ootionf._
A - ' Y:_ A- ;1-£ound_a notation uhara_on6 parti movnd T
from the apartment next door to another apartment on the
same floor. I found that which has rooordad thorn. __
.% ' ; _q [what was the name of the party who moved in
tho apartment, nu. B1wyn1[' f. _ w . - f_' " :
I - ' ._ 1.1 . '-.| - ._ A Brown moved from Gd to 6~N. I
Q was that the first notation on that page? -
has that the first-dteu|that_aopaared on tha page that.waé
hoaqad,_'Hentn.for 1959-1950?? " i _' 1
P; w . - A .-That in about the tirot item. - a :- - - | .
_ 1 Q '_what was the next item that you dun then} bit!
. " A = Then the nxt item in whore 8arant'a nami
was oroapad but and the nana Donovan wrote in.' I
E . Q § You moan on Eh! next line appears the nam
Savant, whioh'1a crossed out and Donovan written in?
r__ ' - - ' . , . _ .t | ' - --1I I ' ' ' - A a I m not saying it a on the nae one. You .
I _ hat notntiona I neon, _._ ~'_ .._ -;__ $-
' 1t:_? 'q 92Ewhnt'a pighttg i- A t. _;.-_ l . LJHITED oxtxoznn us:
1 i
_ y ___ ,.,._-V .__ r _, .7 .-- 5 . § n | . , , . ._ i _.- __ >... < - . » _____|_ .;- _..,.- . - -' _~ '-~---'~'- "' T_7" i . _ ~1.r + 4,.-f~ -u~.r,, -A-V- .4,.¢.92~_.....-~..._4._V_.92,_=,-_.-__-1-;~__ ~ A A I A: *~ "= VJ-Ii
0<
_ I-'! -.
92
K.
9.
:.
~
~|
|
1
5'-
I..5 4 '4 .' 3| '1"A , n 92 -
. Z:
1; 5;'1 I
- IIr:.rm:'rm: u1-'F1cIAL usn -.110
_ ;.A A ThAt was your question. I didn't any tho. .0 .' - - ' . . ' "
there IaI_0thcr apartment: u§ote_aown on_thnt damn lino _- _Ih _ > >. ._ _ In
tho 92lP¬m0t8 are listed down there nn you noknd no
what~oo92§at:1on'. f-1£"m*g{vingficRiT'ihii: T1§§i§lon§ éia}-Livia '
down thorlq '~ ~~- ?' 'aLA
.7-, -_- . . 4 " ' - .
. *"J» Q ~ip1;1 you give 1t_to us, air? " 1 - . -',
W - A .You oaid on_th0 nnzx lino; I ail: not on i 92
_ .'_ _ , i _ _ . _ . . . _'
next lino. Thin is a notation. _ I _ a .'
-. ' Q _whoro did the notation appear, on what puke o
or the gags, uhaéo Savant uaa crossed oak? ' ' '
.;_ _ - h A It'uppeags out in the middlbg sarant; tho A
. : » , _- . . ~ '» - : _ ~bpartmnno and Savant: nma, and that in crossed out Adi D
. . . - . P
than in the middle thorn tt'a narkad "Donovan". »
- v Q _-Io thin about mid-may doun the page,-or is
'1t no the bottom or tho pago,'or is it ah the top of the
_ - f A_| Pvobablyoald-@431 or one page-I: ' - $1
-..Q ' E .' -
;| ' Q ; nnn1t you know, Hf. Elwyn? You Junk lookud
as it
- - A,§ oton, atr,'I had ozaobly one hour to go ~
from hora donnfto unnonnioh village and bang and go thoough
ovorything. lion want m to oopeo@n11y'5o §hroughAnotah1n1_-mo, hgt'!_ '92'Hhao_ the d_ov11_ has that goo-c6_._'¢<>_n1'uh unis; -~_ ._ .5 ' :__- ' .- < -- -1 1" - I
0 ,I_ant[tn know. F0r_tno oenta 1'11 forgot lbOU ih69~
whole thing nun I'll walk out. -' - -
.._== . _ " ; l .-; t.Im'.'rm> orvrcrtu. use
. . J , - _ .!
IQ
- - .-"_ T7 1 ; - . . -' , " ¢ . .T ."' "~' ' ' " "x" '1 "".' h- -. -- 92 - ' " _ ' ~..- - .-.' .;__4 .. n'_ '_-__ i » A A . __.i gm ">-x J7 7 5 A ~ £44-QR} -;§__.l¢_ _ .-<-n~__.....-....~'_ *-*e»_$- 92.....- '~ -4..- , 1-: + '92-Eli H ' .-
mu
..92'
92
I
92.
I0
L
. A
i"
1
F
,- 92 .r_.
. 1' A I .- '1 . .
.,!° -~¢1 ho; we never put the date in." The date ii _
iQ '. a
. _ - 92 ..,
. LIMITED orncxu. usn _ »-111 _~
'rIox~Is1s*z2*w-2 CHAIRMAN: _ i _. _ _
_h; _?{ q_ 'Loqkl Mr. Elwyn} what §q_h0ui6 iikd SQ do in
a,*; he would 1ikb"t6 thy to gat at the baaid taotb ih_-2
' ~ - - - is; =
thip?partiou1an-caae and we~havo~got~to;approéoh"itfon"thé' **
hgaia that wa have a raaaonabia,oroaa examination. Nah,
we nra_hh;iouh, all at hl;_lt this point e6 r3;iiy con; L
down to lamb apeoiflc bare taut: on what! involved. _!o - _
_ I . . _ P. Q
have stated that, based on you boat memory-- - ;.§
_ . .- '. . -' 92v
= A 'Thnt'l right. " ' . -, .'
. . - - 1
A T' '1 Q --which you havb rafraaha during thQ.1hn6
. _ _ _. . _. .r;
4houra,_thht these are the dates that! as you teatitiaébé __' '1~1sap"a z-i'ght._ ' ' i
- _ Q . --~and now H. Rand is trying to pinpoint -
exactly what reaord it is that you have referred to in -
qrdor to clarify your thinking. And_yuu any that on thii _
partipullr book the name qf Sarant has been deleted. '
. . . _ , .¥A That's right. . A §~
A Q h And the name nonotln substituted.
.1 ' 5 . -|A ]3hat'n right. "_ ~ .
'* In 1ih0!9 Q date beaide that notation, 1 amh.}.-.Q, A
in t0 KhQn thid occurred? . " . - .
> 1 ' - _ ._-¢>
missing.| -' - . ... . . ' ' ' ,- . . _ _ .-_ ~ . - -. . . __ L ' _ _ , _._ __¢__ _ _ _ __ . > _ . . . .
. . h; '!hun thé Hate_§ppaan tn thqt §he6t'lnynh§r§fQ_
i " 1. ummn ovnann usn
L.
!- .
.~.'..-L " _'_..'.~.;_¢.L_4--u-:-
Q
I
i
I
92
.
I.
H
l
'92
e'~ I
@ 'It
H- '*- - . > ' '.- .< -, ._ . ,- _> :.,": -_., ~. __- - __;___ ,=L--If,-__,,_.-_,,_ A -~-|§f- A~A - ~+L-Q-I ,~ V _ - 4-_ 3-! 1&.L@d4~...
- L1:-aim OFFICIAL use - e 11¢ '
* '. ~ 110, theonto doe not appear ag_@nae'.$.. _A ~ - - w en-' " _" '
have to go by memory/that gpertme '»_ ,f
to on reeorae on that, because that.That 1! phy_wo hey we
tented, lecohding
wae~not-putj1ntv~thebo0k:-"-'"T"' "' *"'"' 7 T"? .! i "
' . '. - '.. -_ _ §f,Q - De you hlve.eny'renta1 reoeipte ih1ehwoui&'_ . - 1 . ~_ . .
ehon when Berant had pn1d'h1e taut payment Ind for yhet t;_- . - -' :._ *
por1o47gg¢And-the_dete on.uh@oh"Donoven oommonoed peyin_' . .. , . A. _,_A A - y
rent; would you have any receipts to show that? ,g
The office nould have that. to .A H
Q- But you wouldn't heve that at_your house? i
I haven't got uni: information. '.; . ' --.3
QAnd you he§en't eheeked an; =§.o§a= thht téuid
verify that tact? . ' A '
. ANo, no records to go back to. You have to U
go through our main'ott1oe;te get all that Qoun there. 4
-That 1e strictly in our main office. #'"e ; _. P;. . - ~
Q Hunt about the income tax-forms? Hou1dthet -5
ahow which dates you were employed tor what ooneerne? '
. -e , A I I looked that up. The income tax mostly hoe
for the yeer19k7-M8 when I was in tho oountry beoeuee I
thnd to split my income tax up because I worked for the euté
4 . we port of the time and! worked r.§ my unole port of t'§~ _
time. And_thou_1u why 1 uanted_to be_ezaet on the_date _hat-. . v ' ' - _- ' >._ ' " ' ' . '
e there }n_thc country. 1 But, ea fer oi the Qth§r t:F~_
' Li:-1n~ranoee1o'1ALos1z_ '
$; .
_ . . .,_ 92 - .-__-. I. _ .e_...-.--4-&92L92¢>-nn.»'.4-_,:4;--I-:¢1l,J4-A-II-L:I1w_nQ~_Z~~' _L : i i J '-rd -+--..n"92.a.-~ -92_,»~ ' Kw ' w-* ~_92
. _ v
e, o
o : LIMITED LFFICIAL usz ' _ 113'
mm have to 1-aolothat up. _- > "_ ' _ A _ ,
- , _ . ' .., ' .4.
__ ", .f_'__:'q A "92=mnn will nr. o_o:-rlook be ovliiabiot $ who- - . , l - , . -_ __ , . . . . .92' 92
his records oaovaiiobio -tor you on poo! ' . "fr_ 4 _ . . a .
' 92. I -
A_'.;-~'_- .._ - _ _-V _ -*_ [A ___I._.uou1d,_havolotoloaiiih-im,1 poooib-iy e=-=1»,-=»»»i~ -
0
"<His uito said nnre didn't oxpooo him back to we offioo
- - - . 4 ' ' -:-_-
today; it goo her an homo. Shfooid no my: be in tho muss_ _ _ . ., . . .- _ _1 - ~ - -. . 1 .later tonight but ho wiilinoiz oa'in'tno c'ioo.~ -'
_ _ . ,.A | .: I Q H011, I don'i: know unao no non oooabiion
any further qnnntioning along this particular lino. If no
_ __ ...
boo divulged ovnrything no knows oboutp tno oimo, the ditdai. , .
and one p1h0on,_I think those are :n1ngo'ue 1111 Just hhéi ¢
- . ' A - ' ' 4 - ' .to verity from other rooo:-da._ '_ .1 . _ ' .
MR. R/um; may I 91700606, nr. chairman? A '
ms c2mIm~mN: Yea. " - '
MR. SIMS: Lot mo inquire, Mr. Rand, how long I _
do you expect: to question this witness? Do you havo lny '1.
: __ _.v .- ._ 92
idea? . ~" ' -1" '- - §
. w I. _; . k
MR. RAND: I-should think about another noun -
" I HR. S1933: Iii: going to have to ouggaat no poi: E
moro rooeonablc interpretation on this orooo axominationi h
I man, after nil, -thoae uionesooo have volunteered to oomo
--Q . ~in hora nd I 1;_h1nlc- that no oould at the mm of Mr.
R nd'a inquiry,_ Mr; choirmon, oatabliah a roaoonabio.1:inA_ _ . . , . . _ _
period and ohnn he onn go'vorn'hio oioroliozporizont ¢aa¢=i'$
. 1 I_ - I F . I .'" - LIMITED orrzcxnn us: 2" ' '
._ - . - . » _ 4 .».---1*-_ -m._._.__...... s. _...;.--... A--L.L..-L..n..a~1': -ta-:,~ - L -"7 '-"- - A ' 1- -3'1-->52-Q4-Z "1 92a_- ~73 > -'~--"4._.l.H-.nI-J: -'1-:L4i~'+.-144,
. LIMITED UFFICIAL uss iii '
bra-um his inquiry with the time limit vary much in,
min_'d','1~athsr tInf1n_-to_Bp1'1Q8 sum limit 6n tin right it;
o_ ';;;;'e;';.;.,m. -I: think in s..@."»;*=;. aatabiioh em.
___ _ ___ Ath_oatsst1~*-ThLn thtng~can-go~onto unrssaonabIsprobor¥ '
tions, and I think it in gutting into that now. " ' *1-,l-_-_. -:1 _ _ . A. '_. ., -
b'.fh: g, RAND: Mr. qhoiroan; nay I adoreasihysslf ___
vary oorsori1y'to Mr. 8ipos' suggestion or_aonbest maa G3_ ~ . ' ' ~ - .
tho Chair? I do not be1ioVs"that Iimiting my oross-ozamine 2
tion would bs permitting rsssonnblo cross examination bu
behalf or the pci2U3lOI1BI'o' I furthslf am tomswhst ilioturbs
by tho continual reference to these witnesses, of this -
.__.-92.~~ ._ '- -: . . '_-. '. l A I
particular nitnono, coming in voluntarily. I have navsi - - I
had any objection to tho Board's non-consideration of the
alleged statements msas by tho Blwyna. So tar as I kno;
they. hlvt hover been on thu'_rso0x' 92. I havo nove boon
advised that tho E1wyns'_ltates:shts were on ths":fa=iora_3
I use satisfied with the record which we mods botoro this
.,_ I .
Board in Bashington somewhat uoro than a month ago. ".» . ,' 92
. _; Now,.wo cam in voluntarily too; ls it wars. no
filed a ptition and we made l_rooord. _I take it that thé
. . ~
Eluyns have boon invitod to coma hora as witnesses-because
oard has before it some statements which purportsdl
made by thn_E1wyna It acme Government offices. Ho" -. _- . _-.
aster ssen those otatsmsntl. Bo for 5; to know, %hI§q§
4 _ ,.- . . _ 1
. , -
. LIMITED OFFICIAL USE
_ __ _ _ _ _ __ , : . _ ., _. ml. . _.; . i.1...-' u...._...'.~...4..'-.92--J...-__~-_92..L:-.t;4 ->5-__-92'._-,i_V ._.'.;'_.>.-- -l A "~-1|--' ~ I _5J- a-'-A-I '92"nr-'+- A>A=~- - ~ A 92a!~ 1.1»; -4» A
-
~ LIMITED usrzctnn uss , _ -_ 115'o_.» _ ,
,,not in tho. 1.-coo:-d. I an prepared, itphhe Board win B _
15, to hsss tn» ontird soa£imopy_or.n@; sisyn sficken<_ on '
. _ , ssoord Ind not be sonsidsscd, if I ¢¢6'oo 5aau§¢aeBEF"
_________W__~_tbQit!oord,_as_ua knowiit-bodsy-snd as_ws-knon~it»todsjf--
. -
. - it consists solely of Mr. Dyson's-tostimony_undsr oath-;
will be considered by the Boa. - _ fu .. - ._ . . - > '
o i E. SIPBS: ltou know butter than thsh;_Hr. Band;
we have investigative rsoorda in this Oovsrnment available ;
to this Board that_you cannot.s00. c_
~ if - 5j-u. RAND: I ruiiy rtnlize cnsi. But tho son-
_tinus1 smphssin on this man coming in yoluntarily 1|-féiij
- .ths rssson why.tnis man has tc.coms in horn is that tho _, _ .
. Y ,- Board is being aalced to consider; and I_ think improperly
- _ and uncsnstitntionsliy, the rsporto of oiher agsnoiss as.
to statements those people aid purported to have mads ab p
._aoms _p!'IVi.O921B time. ~ - ' ' :
~_ i ' _. . <
' - HIE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Rind, did you not ask at -our -
first nearing that you be given I chance so see the record
and bs cpnfrontod by the witnsssssi - ' '
' A no, I was lsksd-- _
A
' ' -EH CHAIRHAN| Or any psraons who might have hsd
- any commcnts to make with respect to Mr. Dayton's where-
I tne ii . _' '. ' ' * p . .
- ' N. RAND: I.don't recall sxact1y.- Of course ___
I ;~ H _ LIMTED oricrnn us: "D
.
792 .
-
. Z
A
E "-Hr:
A _ I _A- .
~;.._ F _ 4 ~ " '"- 1' b . "; ' . . ' -~ V -~ .- ~-J 4, "'~ e- "_.:. __.;__ __E_____J __,_A__:__,_§__,,_;_,V____,i,_,__ _ .., _ ___, i. _, A +-~ uhmn -1-I ~92.a|.-r 1 I an -.
iQi "1
mu:-ran owxcxxu. usn 116 ' .-
. - < ' . '
algg not b0en_a?for§ed Q oopy or the tranooript of poe
um-ins. 1 mm merely .55 an, do 1 don": mm um : .
._ _ _ _ . _:_ _ D _ >_ . Q ,::::.-.
u >5-13;. but I'd-.1 rooalla W. chime. hot i2_dia'nh MET "__
, . . . - -im oak to pa hnId;HQ§B ea in theinaoond._iI_wao_donié&» ~l4k4~
-sham-equine, xeépi; mm '1 nu ma by %h0_Ohair whet. .u > .
.- -__ ; .v,_92' I . I ' 0'» . ' ' . . - - I ~ J
there were other matters in the reoord. -"" " A " ~;
- I. _ I ,_ . .. _ _ "._: . '
' - "'§f_THB CHAIRMAN: Di6n!p you at ail timeo krw and .
lk" .' . 1 _' - .' . _ >
olioih from on an much of the record as you possibly £5u1&;,. - - »¢-.
withinbounds? ~ I ,. " -" A
.. _ e mm. mum» now. in-. Chairman, t--i- -
"* i = THE CHAIRMAN: I mean_to prepa:e your ease, E - e
_ _ . 92 .reasonable approach; Z u l t _'3 ?" ' " i
' MB. BAND: I have no Objeotion to Mr. Elwyn!
being received. , i f , ' oeotimony
~ j _ THE CHAIRMAN: As g'oatter of oourheay, Mr. ahj. 5
more than1 anything else, uI,have provided you an oppogé_ i_*
tunity to nee one pQrUOQ8 on qheu_reat.a certain part_§f
" ' ' Q. .
mu rue. mum haé boon Anne iapaoially in -this p51-eiuiii
lar daae,_ I§'a an exceptiona1'arrangement in so tar as
previous hearings are concerned. _ A '
L MR, RAND| Mr. chairmen, lot me'interrupt, if I. - ;.- _'may; to bay they we approoiahe that. we appreoine it; $5?! _
wfequm :nqu_i;_a1¢_ona1r_eha tne'au§;<1 ngvpgjupg amp 11;;
solely no C oatpnr or courtesy, although we oppreoiahu i6__'
_ 92 . . = . : -I -' > _- ''" ___,r.m1'mn> orncm. use ' ' "
I ' ' - .
| _ ' -
1
.. _ <7 . ..~_, > - - - -'7 -- ~ Q- '." . f_>¢--_- §'¢92>'.~-:-4-0-'__''I:~~:~>l~!,-_>, ,' -A92'_.<-<;-;__.l..2__,j~--»14§nr-! +Aa-|'~ 1 f~~ ~ - 92 -~51-_'-T44-I-1'>-~~~$-lh~ll::=n>&~k---'-'
v
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4' r ~- MR. nnnba He have no objection to-Mr; Blwynii -.. ' 'LIMIIRDFF'IC'IAL vsm o . '11? I
|a_ooutnay, but aiao as a_mottor of tlir dotting. d '
duo Pro9Ba|. - ,. i,;iw'? . -'. 'Y?"3f *'-*". "A_;_ _ __ , > j # on H <1 _§w,PH:,_t_.__ f,?.T_- I
_,' -.57 THE cunlnnna certainly an effort in-thgt -5i
an-éotidn. - - " '
' 4 . . O
_._ - - __ - - ._ _ . .1. _
testimony bllng roaeivnd. ';""';. L'f;f ,3 =:"}
" _'1_qm cimxmmn 1- thing-it 1s_bGi_n§ a»nu'_:b=-'y3|i&1_ _ _ 1F
I
benefit. I think perhaps the panel might go into Eznoutiéi
Session to sec whotheg no want to pursue this any urtho¥§_
~ _ . - ". - _ . . -A . -,
it was av understanding that you, as Oounaal for Mr.Daytd6!
.had naked "that no provide ovupy facility qvdilblo to ioU_
tor yon to have an opportunity to adareao §ou&§61t'&Fthé '
. . - ' '
facts of record. . ' .' -'
_ ' _' M. RAND: That in right, Mr. Chairman, but I do
want to lddrann myle1f.lnd now I'm told that my opoaa
. ' ' ' - 1
examination must be out off, lad! believe with 811 dua "-
dereronoo to the Board: and Hr; bipea' nnronaonlbio auaaif
I have no objection to thi Blotlmopy 3oing'in; -o
|_ 1 . - ~ I -
EH3 CHAIRMAN: I thought it waa It your par1dU-I .
lav request that this was being done._ _ ~
MB, R!92l;D:_ I did not request it. A
~ - _ M. SIPE3: I think thoro_ib a atatanont in4-}
? ._._1>ayton'o_sa£'fidn_'vit that this matter has _piag_ned'h"im l ,_
through the yours and'ho would like to havo it brought 6 tF ' ~- __ - - . f - ~ .-;_- . - -- '
u:rn'nn oxmclznz. usk ' I H I l1- m_
.92 .. _ >> .-.-_7_ > I >- .- "- ._ ' ._-__ _ _ -_ ..1 92 - .-:-:.-1-._:."..4o-_.' -ILE If-:A;:92-4L--I ' o..¢F1',$._;u,_ _ 1. 3' ' 1 --~" ~ an-r-s -' - 1 P ~~~ *#92LiL-L ' 92t» - 'L s --= 1" J ' *'~ _
' . ~.| t _ _ _ " _
Q t~' LIMITED QFFIOIAL usm _ _ 118 I
-d'ohanos to nok more questions, sud-1 think that at hi. - ¢ . A - .
lost bearing ho mentioned the moting_in thl sirport_ln p." __'-1 "h I I '- - - .' 4*
has only d chance tor cry trier questions. H6 '
wanton to ask hiw this and sskrhim that and one thing sud s
another, it I rnmomber it oorroctiy. not I want to gét'_
_ . , ' r. .. . -
one thing straight in this rsoopdg Mr. Rsn&_hss ropsatt 1-
ths ltstsmnt that he_hao no ohjsotion to H, Blafnis W C
testimony coming in. I want to make it abundantly clear-
ror this record--it doesn't mks-any dirteronco whathsr '
Mr. Rand has ohjnotion of not! ' . A
MB. RAND: I think that is so. it; '_
. i - "' -'5 -. ~i92: =1
A THE Cnnlhl That is oloar. But, bn ths chub?
hind, 1 think no Dun: to maks an clear for the_rooord A
that tho panel conoideran asking those witnesses for tho-p
' . ' . .92 .=
specific purpose or trying to develop the oaaé and got as
. - ' - ' ' _c. . _,92vtho tooth. And we are trying to no that in in Q;pe¢1g{¢Q§
- 1
manner and we tool that perhaps there are souo ihortouts
that can be devised to got st the easontini tsots in -a-
. . .
far so this gentleman knows and the other witnoosss knoni
he tool that n reasonable cross Ozamination might adhes-
thsso facts. we fool that perhaps two nods and now aihost
a_ha1f again, 20 minutes or so, is perhaps reaching the ". -§
ll? - ' - . Gpoint of roanonahlonoss in so for as this particular wit§_
noes is concerned» l I . '. - ls. ¢- " ' ,~
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LIMITED OFFICIAL U88
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_ LIMITED OFFICIAL usn '__ _ V _ ' A -4* - ' ' ' i1 . . - 1 . .. _.- . . J o - r - 4 _, V »= >u_.¢.q_-A-I" ~~ 7-._"» " 4' ""-* ' I ~ -<~ 3-,__,;-,__-____ _:,-,_.,__4~1.'_ L1- _ 41.. A . -Z 1"_~eL_..d= J -' * ' ' "7 -"L "' I
_ -w
. ilé
K Now, true, oomoono lo going to havd to be orb J.
trary about thin boonuao thoro la nothlng nicer to I lo QQLQ
n ultnosa that he can work over than to have book and .
r»»vn~=@~=h@-~nth~¢¢@§¢¢oaa¢"e;aa¢oia&.£o£}55é5¥§5L, but _
I think what
tiuo limit onyou and on u! 5.§o When we oao
nltnoaa.fromno are trying to an now to allot o_roanonablb
roloaoi thiJ_
tho ohalr, And I personally toil vIry'ka6nl§ -
that we ought not B0 go on_boyond anothor.§0 mlnutoa with
Mrt Elwyn. i : ht E
. _ t'~{ non, xr that 1: dn_onraaoonablo tit; 11m1u, 1'6
ofratd that we are going to horn to than roach tho point. - - k . ' '.:. _ . . .
of being lrbltrnry- ~Thlrty minutes la qnlto
ano it I111 afford you an opportunity to hit
issues lnvolvod and to try to ollcit all the
in oo tar on thin nitnooa known them. It we
. I . * 'B Iitblt hhiiuh
at the germnné
pertinent faota
ara going to
havb to take 1@n;Qr than that, than 1 think 1 ~11: novi £3
be arbtrrary and mama o ruling as to the time limit
involved. '" I _ "
lot no Just make one remark for the record.
to excuse myaolf no for no the infirmity of advooateo as -1' M. RAND: I will do my hoot, M. Chairman, but
I do not aodk
aaigorned. i realize that at tlmea I may he on lengthy gi
as other lowooro oooaolonally nri.1 But Iido nlnt_tho Ohiir
on.that ovoéy im 1 reel that 1'» roodhlng the and F?
- 1
' ' LIMITED OFFICIAL US]!
iv oroag a:<m'.1!_nation I rind a switch on tho part of 6
' I
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IJ
92
a' !.ii.'.7*--- .----Q. --1 I92l-r|4-|- WI *-
i o
» ' LI!-tI'I'ED'uFFIOIAL usn . Q 120
J
wiinolo ho tojdnoai ;u§; ~¢_.»¢ ¢5¢r;°n§§a, other Q ro '§@_
- .~~ , V _- -1 - -P » -.,:= - _ -A--,--
n_Iihneau coming in herQ_Qnd giving uq in-Intiruly '
nowd;te,_;_8trictly~npeakingf~i4m~entitI0d vdfofbaibiié .. - 1 . -
ination gs ho tho new date. 78a have h oomplatoly new pa¬3
4 ' - . -' - ' . I ' . '_ ' _"' '
:h8rl_'_UOH. > _ I .h ' I "I _
' !. :51 mm cn.921m»uuu we ¢,-ammi" to'§O minutol $5; -' -r ' 1
He hag recast hia abatement in the light of now datoa. .1
. . . - -_ ~ ' u
Everything also being the |ame,_I assume the dates are dirk
forun oerhapa from the ones he mbntiona this mooning} Ek
it: bas9d'on.ro£réohing his memory dring the lunch hohri:.
He hno lat forth oategoricallié as I na§is§1¢A to brihé *
out initially to shorten thin hearing, n'naw set or dahbi
or perhaps the sumo dates in I different Iay§" I don' knbi
which unti1_Qo review the reoofd. But, bison on_blB .
_ . - o - 1
restatement or dntoa;'ho haa_neoonatituted his story injj_
torus of now time elements, '¢ln we proceed quickly to l
ge at §hB facts involvdé? "or ' ' ' '_ ' '. '_ -
; mm. RAND: I.will do my beat, Mr, Chairman. If
this man can give mo facts, I'd like_to elicit bhem.- But
I haven't hoard any, ' A" __ 1 _
if . THE CHAIRMAN: Let's proceed and get at the be g_$ . .
'.,- A _ .'_ __ _-:._ ..
1 - - ' L-
" LIMITED OFFIOIN3 0511' U _' '
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.k i;_Lo__-._-._-roT._;,:-o.»~__i»o=o':;+_»-Iiifo»-4 -' ~ .~_*.~--=-o I 1. - 1- ~ ---L 5»-" -1 » *'~'-e»-¢--'=i---__; . H _ '7 . - _ _' _. __. .
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LIMITED opmczm. usn 121
~$s'r1ousaY::n.nmmr._ . __ - . D
' - :- Q Hon did you ft! on_tho data Jhnuary 1950 -
' ' . 1n3 the luncheon roooan,Hé.§1w9n1" fA'_"' A _' _
_; *K ;oiA,-1H£ixodwthoo~booaueo'I"tr16"66Ho¥&'ou§in§. F
rooorq books and to the noarout of my rooord_hooka hoéoi.- - .. 92 ' '»I ezgurooioup. 1 figured 11: you January 1950 may one
apnromont was ro-ranted. f,§ J, " " i --." '
. Q w-111 yon toll us, nr. Elwyn, a on about
you manual procoooeo, how did you figuro it wan January
19501 HhatQ in your rooord books! rerreohoo your recoil .
1oo£1on.ij5 1 - o ' - i . _ "_ l_
' "§A nooauaé I o1ao;.1ook1ng baoh on tho roooid§
and seeing when the one party moved into tho apartmonb,'
moved from one apartment to the other, I took that dove
which I had, their data that ihey tnanatorrao from ona
apartment to tho other. _ _" ' 'i "- " _
. é ' Q Uhat data Ian that, llr? . é
A = who date was now 8optembor¢ I
, Q Qoptember of what year?
A _snptombor of 1949. I'
Q Uho moved whore? .
._. I A¬iir.. ._ _ - .._ .- . :-- » . . .my miatako, than to my mtatakb. Browns movo¢ou.Soptom§orBrowns moved from apartment-no, no, that fa
1r_,_:.. _ I I ' I . I--_-_
. LIMITED OFFICIAL U88 .'
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: -92
. 4
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' LIMITED OFFICIAL USE. 121
" ~' E -Ant
' <
_ _q n An the Browns name appaarad on §ha'top" _
this page, ia_tnat righ{ M#. 31wyn7_g *;h-,-, _;_f_¥ u.#
: A W ~' .4 ' »- ' "-=.r- I = -- !"P
~"-" ' A That appoarad on the notation» ~
n ~- ~i- ;qi- Anu~thaf-wué"a8he"$bpof"¬n5ibE§6'§5u§dP0 "
looking at, in that right? " ..- . _' a*
._ _-. . -.
Y-' A, Juht about Uh! ¬0p, tha notation. >.- ',
- - v ._
.4-. q _ And this notation, in which you founu thn ?- I" . - ."1 . - . ~ -. . '
name Sarant crossed out and thi nbw name Donovan put in, ~
"- . . 4 _
was that in tho middle of that page? > '
- , ~,:-A ronsibly the m1aa1a; yea, braaei¢a11y the. 92 '
mlddl 0£_§hd page. "1' F _ ' . A Q n
. ' _._, . .-..,_,' _ _
And that fulluned ho notation on Bruin; ii -'- 4_.92 -
~. Q
thlt righb?
A Tht'B Tights .
' Q
.' 1
3 QAnd the Browna moved in September 19502
» , .. . ITnbtYa rtgnt; 5 ' ' -A - '1 '-:-
who accompinted you to the nplrment duping 7
lunch fioean; Mr; Elwyn? " ' ~ . "H
' , A Hy wife, Of nouraal we had Q0 30 out to
Uatlo l» - ' ' '
' QDid your father accompany you 0007- .
. > '_ _
__ A Hy_£aher went homo by hinaelf. enliven
glans. Ho had ivcd a1one_n1noe pwmqth9r ied. _ = ;-
E ' Q, Hay we go back to where wé nggd prior §o|¬n§,.-
:.. '. : -,_
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LIMITED OFFICIAL Usz
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$1Q.I
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92
.
a
92' mama <,»Fncm. usn '- 125' .
heon rocesn, Mr. Elwyn." Xou stated that you had no '
_ > _ . J. _._ _ _ _| Al , .
Mr. Dayton go in and out Of the building on several ooo , . _ - _ -_ 92 .r_ , - 92.
n and you tuLd'ua the tirat_oooaoion; in iou rooalié8""
_1Q;THl_1_BGpQJbOR OP~Q0$0b8P~Of-19u9,"1I h§ OOPr6d1
" fn -£'h:1t'a right. . - ~ j - . '
- '.*- Q Now, you any you_wqge in tho lobby of tht
bu_il41_,n3..gt thc,t1me_.'" 1 1- -. '
A I was in the ultn hall. - - .
_q And have you beou.ab1o to rofroah your roooli
lootion an to whothor Hr. Dayton was leaving the huildihg
or ontcrlhg the building, llrf _ ' @;Q_ .
A W 1 -lomathlng 1 could .¢m.~=~. .1 Eéié -
» _ v
said that before and I will Itill refrain ram ohanging~
- Q bu you recall what Mt. Dayton has wehring it
that tlm, Hr.Elwyn? _ _ - . >
'uo} I_do not. _ 3- _ '_; ' l "
Q D1!you rooall whither he was nearing a ooutt
A ,'At-oho timo ho who nearing B coat, I know
, Q
- A
there bofore in 191+9tnn InaAt_wh1ch tlm U35 that, air? '
50.1 stated before, there was possible times .
euro that I have been him ih
_ I and I still inoiat on it.
it __ Q ,3 realize that, Mr. Bluyn, but tho first t me"the hall. I ooifd thatobefore
_. . _ - - -_ _ . i . | |.
you nan him, you don't recall whether he was hearing o qeqgg- ' 1 - . .
' " '_ Li:-nmn osorxcxn. usn
'4-"f_s=-7--92'§_=v.._-:-~~,5 -"~=-3'4 ~41 1--- -1." _ .1..---'--> 4* ~ --~: 92-_1A_ »'_;:,"~%» _92_l ..-_~_~_-._-. - Ll--__....' ;
no Q o. o b - - o
LIMITED oz-wrcxnn uss _ mu"
3%
o -f A no, I do not. " ~ . T * ' ~1 H
L_:_¢__j:Du you reoaI1onohhér,$o ounhad the ptll if
._ _ .>-'_-~ __ _. A '__ _..' ioondod the ataiéa when you trot nah him? ; ' _ '-
_Q_ !*}lJp-»ioaeen~h1m@intBa~1owér~ha11i Id1dn't"Bo5"'3 "
92
I .92
ii
.92.' v -1
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l-92
I_ _ _ , - 1 _ . _.
you nob him go up the stairs it that f
~ ' - -4 92 .: . _ V _ . . ' . Q' ' A 92- - . I _ . ... ~ ,1 92 _ . ' *I
I did not aoo bin go up or come down. ,
Howlong did you obaorva him, for about'how >
long: bn-:'10d;_f-H1. Elwyn? = -l" =- .- '. - ' '
' A NRA '1.om; §nough no pans arwbody in the ma. A
' _»:;7§ ..éh¢ra3HBrO_fOuhgO1n¢ at tho tine? vy "1
- ' - - 1' IA f don't know which way I nan going, nhather
I was going, wother I was going in or out, mylelt.
-I 5 Q Did you-grnahtmi > _
_ _ '¥A_ ho, 1_omn'1;,'pauLuae 1 at that cue _aum_H:'1
know Hr. Dnydn.
' Q = &u foot, you didn't know whore-he was goig, "- . - 92 ' . '- 4 Y
' =11"! that ;~1gne,"_}4q_. Biwyn? 4 _ _ -
- 4
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lm Ball
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1, ma non.
¢
~ 92-.;. . _
I>Mhnn who the next time you saw him, Hi. Biyntjéuabiuiy a short: time right nrcer tum, agfa _
in you're laying posa1b1y¢' - ';'l__@.
LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ""
. _92 . . . I - - e . .- . » ' 1 ' '. .- < . . 1 . i *" - 7..' ' "' - J L. §~ --- ~:',_ -,.,__,,; __, _--,§_.__ ,._-|_',..L -- Ana; ..4._.-92 *' ~ -1 -A-.-l1_':_:"' ~~ "92-d~ + I -** *
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4 A 1 chan1;8¬1>1. I um a qhorb bimo right:
.~ _ -. .- ~- .-
_- 1-' Q An-1.during mm -am wan tut; iu-1' "7"
"N_; __; _AA__$hnMwal_du!1ng_8¢ph8mbBr;-SBpb9mbOrln§ - -*
0otbbar,'both months. ',= ' - - _ ' , , 'H. - - I . -.1 .92 . - .
' i'_ Q what is, yoq aa hhm both nonthoi was 155 5 3
either septombcr or Ootober 55 was it i Boon mouth: ihag
.you nan him? _ ' ' _'. If
, ., -J. A Both months. 1 '. " » A .
' " 3Q -So the aeoond time was again in either oné -
or thoaoAqonthn. where warn you standing at that time, -'. 1
Mr. Slum? ;~I ; .. Y
o - A 1 told you I wasn't standing. I was goirig '
through.the hull. I could have been going in or I oouiu
_hava been going out.', 2 » = _ , -. ]
,_ . .
< ; a. Q punt has Mr. Dayton nearing at that time; i§_ -- | . . I .you yuoall, air? 2' 7 " ' A I i 2 ' '""
... > A 1.
i A
, Q:1 q0n't know. - I
i wuq no wearing 1 coat? i
l-. I
A ' Qhat is what I said, I don't knUWo '
Q Wan ho_wBar1ng I hit! . '. .
. - ; |' 1
1'aw.1 don't: know. _ J"-1- .. |
4 ii? Q I Did you see him mount the stairs or déaoané A
§ v. eh» atairn? '" " A-I . " '* * '"' ' A "
Q»
. ' " . 92. .. _ 92 ~. ,. .;; . .
1 ' 1.1:-srmn ormcm. UB1: -
.- I .- _ -i ' - .. -. _. v .i
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h , ' .afar mt. . , __ '33- '1. H. _ -_-
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-
' L _ - ammo mncnz. nan ._ _ 126-
-._ A I lid nO|i. . .. ' -4 ' . . ' .
ma yod _lmo'n pmq ha was "nu can aim ~_ _ Q- . A '_; '.
J5 ' __; - _ »JQ;o_u@p;ch1a_a1ao_a-oasualoaotin>in~uh1oh~yo6 -71
. ,-» _ - , 1 -
. paaaod_h1m by and ho poaood you by? A ~= :_ =_ -1
. ' 'jTj'A 1That'n right." »*11_ _- 37';-7>:;-
,~ §§_Q That was tha_aooond_qimo, y0U.Ilyq;'NO§!".L3. I _ - _ 92 ,
what: the third time you law Mr. naybon7_ " io" - _ . Y . ,._
. ' ' A Possibly the th1rd_timo was inn I neon him
tn the lprmorntw ' I.< -_ 'f- '- -
' "= #'h='Q Did you one him on any occasion prior to h§"
Qii. 3. time you saw him 1n_tbd ooartmen, othor thoolthooa sub 17?
* A Hub that I oan remember.occasions you just mentionoa, Hr. Elwyn? '> ' ' l '
. ~.q You naid betor the lunch rooean that god
" allo saw Mr. Dwtoni-in the vniiga, am you M; an-r -' =e n . |~ -. - - .- . I V . ' ' I? '
_ - A I-utntnd that I poaoibly could have eoon.h1m
" £= 1n the Village. 3 3. '- V , 1 Q y _
* _ Q- ocan you 8011 us now under oath uhoher,o? -
' '7 not_you 816 sec him in the Village? ' . I "' § .
_ » A *IAd}dn't see him in tho Villago myself, nob -
' bu-=55 atroetQaf,_ ? . . _ l . * L .'._' Q 1 tblm you aoo htqz lnywhehr_o_eb1saA1n the vi11a¥'|' L 1 . I
-. ' _5 A_, 92.- - .-._ _ .
éh§thooo dhteo I told you, yak, 1_ ~:"7 1 __#
r _ - ; .. Ln-um» omom us: -
1 . . _.- ,
. .~. .-4'1
7'Ha, i1r.~ --rFf1 h ' <»IY-f 5o '*7"W
~~Z'..=w. ' L ..__ :.'._4_->4-.@_;:4....*._92.;..>
Q ..j..__. _,__ ;1_=_,;;-A A _- ;;,,_ ,,_,- -4-, -K -vi" -i...-.n.r-4 ~ '-4-_ .~ -V --1 ~ w~-1 ;_. _..I .
mmma o1-FIGIAL use > I _ 1a1'
. ' Q I undezratand. I uaad to 11% -herq mjréi _4 '"
. __ _ . __-' , - ' | ~| . . :
Prion-_1:orbha time, then," ohoti you saw Mr." Dayton, yo V,
T
'13
~ -
.-
w
.1
. -4
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»
wW 4. . -_ ' try, oittpim by t'h'ooo._rd' _tob1o,' goo tron um. un"i:n'cio'¬" , ' ._
______ _ _ -_oa§h_.hhn__Ly,ou -_=L'I=II!._.D&¥3iO!'l;~_lO- 1'l.r-ao*yoo»'c§n~nowroo§~1-iQ_* ~
. only on hvo-occuraiona in tho lobby, in thaorighti __ ' , ~- . ¢ _ I _. . -__'_.. A "., . . .' 1 - That's righb. >' 1- '3 ,
- ,';_a And that you pg. him by niunfnna aaoiio --i .-_ .- ¢- .1 . .. .-
', ' lmow inholhe mm or who:-6 ho no go1og,'1a that right? , "
. ' A '11nnh'_s right. < ; ., ~_ A,-
Q And then, mi! understand iron-ooatimonyg = '
» you law Mr". Dyton once at tau card table and another time ~ u 92' - ' 1 . -92
f outside your doorway in tho baoanan1:-- 7. .- L .
L .I
A '1i:nt'ar13ht. ,
Q
A-2----moving turniture, 18 that right? <
- 'L_*ho_t'a right." - _ - - 1 -@_J 5 92 I -
_ .¢ " ~. ' 'q '1:hon tho naxt you saw I-in Dlibon an F15 .,
one airport, in 92;ho.t right, at the Newark Airport? ~ .
.~ . . »
- in i ,'I:11£tt'8 righto ' - "
_ 1 .
__ ' I q _ ;92_nq too next _ti.mo utter that was at Foley
square, tlm aiight, Mr. B1.§§b!_ A _ _ A5
1 . _ . . v >
A T1-mt'q right. , ' .
r U " l -Q so god have soon Hr. Dayton, as you hoat:lt T"
- oooaaio-uni; . H H ..
' . -I -. . ., ~ -1- _ ' . .1 . ». . - , . , - - - ,-'? -A I-;*_l1ut'a1 right. u , _ -
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ummo ozvncitn. oar: '
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LI:-11120 o1=-nctuu. usn 128.
V __ _ » qt 92'.'h::n am tho FBI, nithoutmontioning name ..
first tnquire.nr you witnvrsspoot.to_ur.'Dyton,§sir7 .»- -
' A That was in 1950;. l ' .'=j' ' ': ft. ._
-~~» - ~- ~'~=a". Y6-I hn=9292>i1 =*='11=1séii "b?-é~¥1IbuT1v1= '-=5-J it-Fiiéii "
did you not, Hr. Elwyn? _ }_ __ A H ' .; .
-f f1iQ_§ I have got ny dntts_straight sinus thou, ii§$ »
. .;~_ Q ow did you refresh your_geooi1ootion on SE13; Q
Mr. Elwyn? ' - - '1 - 5:.
A A Juut.aooording to my dates. ; -. | _ -- .
q nun did you dotormina now that it was in
1950 that the FBI nan you instead or 1951,-as you-provlousiy
tostitiod 7' Hunt happened duing the luncheon recess thug _
caused you to dnnngo your testimony? -
" - A Juat because I chooknd_out my dates on the
things wnerq it in possible tor anybody to make-Q miatako
on I date often six or sovon yours. I don't think youird
, . _ , _ . éi-
perfect either when it come! to that. _ ' g
_ Q ' I have novor'protosBod to bi so. .1 have
never testified I_aau Mr. Dayton. Now, toll ms, Hr. E1wyn~-'
" A Did you ever testify you soon anybody? '
Between no and you I don't think you could, Hy _
- mm cxuxxmum we have got to ahorton ths_u1ms}'
~» 'i_ .diA _.Nu, between no und_you! this-nnn' indiostia§_ __ I_ . . ._ 4
nd!, 1 wouldn't trust him any turtbor than you.oan-
_ 1 - . , .92 .. . , [1 ' _ - ,. .
; LIMITED OFFIOILL USE
>-3,; ,_ .,_ ._____,__,______,_-.92..--.1?7~=-~->4 , -45,-;»' 11... --l » ZH!*f '1 - - T 4a_1A' 'i~'i-A¢ -Q k -»~- -92_4 --_-.0" 5 "">';-'~"'-:*;n'-.-i-~_u-...
. . § -
. " LIMITED uvricznr. uss: l 1'59
. . '.- '
. thi building. I mpan hl¬- -. ' .Yh_ 11.!
i¥H_'92Iru-1A.N: Stioo hhat__ out 'ot §ho'.z'éoord..'
_ _ - '_1 _llR. mun: Iyoula 11!:! that to remain tn the
_.ahowthaB.- ' , Y _. -_ __ '_
. T1 THE CMIRMAN: Ha not to got nlonguith the
.: - < 92 .1 '
. . _. . ' = . '1
2.1 1: only own mm for a short utuio. av ooaé
..: . 1 I.> is going to dock mo for thin t!.m0,1or~ be___tng off; ' Y -
. » . - -- _ _ . -. -' . ' _
. 1"THE CHAIRMAN: We undorabanq thaU_lnd we appro-
_ f oiate it vary much. ~ -=. I . ._ '
, - _ . . - . ' . ~ ,
-' A _ so I was only roqueatodoto com here for i_
O short time and»!: don't: aealwhy 111 this atu hasgo tb
come up like unis. -1 move him tho date. I testified théb
I gain him, and that in l11._ I think that should bi the
92 _ end of lb. I <1on't'.aeo why I should be held around hit-6 .
all my long. _ I may have my opinions of things and iii:
t |_,
, 4 0
their vun opinion. x .' . ' _ _
, - mm cnnxm-mm Au we um before, {we up to you;
air, an ho _whd1;imr you want to answer. It's" up to you as
' l tghwhab you 92-mm; to~do. H - ' - u _
_ . A _ _ _; A L >;£ shinlcu I havc wept thx_-ough lbuut enough 'z _ . -Q .
. . ' - . _ .
_ ' .0! I hnve:=};:»1dhim euafythtug tliot tlzpblqibla ind,
1 4:1} ' .=. - '_' _¢ -J -t . _ . , . -. a@ J f--| 1. LIMITED 'ornb':AI. us:
. I | -_ - .
a: ,Igod A -rocord,~Mr' .»¢1.=-H-man@~1r»:+my; I'M" I.1ke'¬he* reooi-d 1:6 *
- oth0rboup1e=l1n'.'c emu-s. 1- think averyboay-ua=_u"r1ghk £6.o
:3
U
. , _._ - .- >92 V - - _ ~ » .-_»--' -'_>-11-v--_:A..,-__-__.4._ég.~,...'-L;-¢;-4:---.-._.4__.;1;J__@_1=--¢»,_ A-1 »-» ~_j |-14--_&A.¢-~ __.. .__ - -pp:-u - ~~ _L-.
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! |1 1
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. . LII~lI'1RD QFFICIAL USE _ -' 130 ' '
_ 1 4 > I 4 »- Q
_aa other rccardu, ho w111_hav9 to chock in with mi 5 "; . -. ~ 92- - . _ ' ' , ,=
or:1oa;_'un1=n £=pacaa wagon, 1_:o M tho ana£__naw_h; '_ . o .
iuitlmnmv orrinél - ~ "-""
» _ . '' .
Quzsrions mr rm. mum: -4 " A A .
- _r : Q fill §ourotf1¢oioeoorda show the pmo Ind --
date anQohare7'*i é --3 .:.¬J_' h ~ .. - -_ qr
= ;u£§ A ?Repoa§ tha agkir I _ io _ i I i_
V > .q A I-_ ._ -
§w:.1_1 your oftiae rooordsuahow the name and _
. ~ y : . I
daeio < '._ . _ -1
' - n.' .- - _|I*i'U' 51!; , v . '. . 92' . I
A: Q 'Db any of th records tn your off1qe.oontalu A
5 puma-0 of r§i~. Dugrton? Q - L = * " , '
' c .
A Not that I know of, a1r.- -
lo , _ Q so-the reooida in your office aren't going
- : . A .. .92_ ~ -
to diaoloaa hu§th1né with geapoc ho Mr. Dayton, are thug; '
Mr. iy7 Tuoy will ¢1§¢1°=@d¢u¢= of oooupuuoy,'bub u6§1§i
:1 _i A !§Dat0a of occupancy, that's what you -=n&=a.o7~"
That ta nhat_&ou'nsRn4 tor. - _ I
I i 6 l limln {aha ms: tn-at inquired about Mr. nayhéh;
ohofo did thtfauke the inquiry, at your apaithenti <
- . A .- " i A ' "iti¢§y omde at urns office and at my lpar-__
I-. I ~ .J; 92 92 - ; _: ! - I , . A ;1| I . 1 | 1 ' -~ ; ., _ . ..
5} rffe MmL'sI2Rs;% I don'§_thtnk tuat;§a either-props ' _
t ap§}qqqtL1tr. Cbirman. ; - -1 i ' §"_ _. 75*
>_ . _ A.¢ 4
_ _ _- -_- , _ >r .-_~.-_'-" __-L -' ".->4:-n1;-....-.|. * A---»~--.<1_.-.l>.;-4.->1--_4»._92» ~ ,3 -=1 ---11' 1 '7 - -~- k *~ 'u- v~ v~ ",92r"~ " ~,:+~ t 'I*,4-l-syn---<
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92 Afélfi 5 ¢-.1
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131 h
LIMITED OFFICIAL USE _ -
-L _ - . -
Q ' - M. RAND: I think no can teat thb matter 6! 1
identification hora, Mr. chairman. _@1hat £l'hat I nun ;v A
and tho Board 1a dbing at this po1nU¢ Hg; Blwyn npparé
. . *4 ___ _.__.__ .
ent1ynnade_a,a$nnemcnt~t0thé"FBI'andb"iéi Inquiring ad1 - n
to the_va11q1ty and-credibility of that statement. - _ _
Afmat ta'n't'uhat you aalmd. '1 Yon
aakndfnnnrc did thaj'ftrat tnquiré about Hr. Dayton. . "
" . Mm. AHD:; I'd like to know the circumstances
;.'- - ._ .
-undr which thia'wun dona._ 1 tntnk-- _>. _ ~ "
T' » :i-MR.:3TPE3i I don't deny that ynu would like t - < .I." . . -
know. A I t
. ._ - - _ '_. _ , .
-' mu-<;1i192_1:m-mm How is um prtlnént to the
,¢asa, Mr. Rand?=- _ ' -
__ MR. RAND: Let me withdraw the quention. .Mr.
Elwyn, at theitimo inquiry was made abqt.Mr. Dayton, hat?
4 .' } "z _ <_ - l -'
gbu shown any photographs by the repreaontatlvae or tnd ~
- . ' ,3.
Federal Burogn of Investigation? A ~ 19. , .2.
J 1 '44 Mm} 8IPESi--Mr. Chltran, I object to that ques;: > . 1 . -
tion. _I,obJ?o to that. _. '> '
- ' I .
__ 'n~mAc>m1mmu I object to that.. I think that:1§*g01ng,beytnd»-- 2* _ - _ . ~1 . £r_h .iI5* ' 1 "1 - . . . . ' -
.@, . _, Mm. AnD:§ may I state---t _; ,1 j? _ _3'-- . .1, 1 q TH §HIRANa-é~tna loops of our r§§sonab1anaé§}~;
. ..;- -.: ~-,2 - _ 4-, -:' ' . ' _= '- 92 - 'A .wJ¢.,f_; 3. _ :5 J_ M3 1 _ _ J. J 4 __I 1*" - -. A Linzmn oincm. usn '
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nxnxrnn onvzcxnn use ._ > -132 '
"'_MB. RAND! Mo; Ohlrmgn, may f eteto my 99.1% 5 Q
for one-rooood? -- ;'}{¥~}§~lIj A'A- ~_> Q ol T , :?j'f__?;-
ir I. 92 _ - ,. _ _ - - --I; _- -_ I . I _' __ _. at I L ' _ I .'_ *
"-37%: L"¢HB.cHAIMAN| For the record, yea. - ,
..Q§, eg; nm.ennno|~»1.enon1ojt1ue*e@'a¬aeef§ba6;'Eh if"jAA
onderooend it, nr. Qne1roan,'the purpose ot_§hterroga§n§_ j,- _. .- _ - . .. . 1. 0 . . . . ' _Mr..E$wyo_on a witneae in thid proceeding go in erdeb to= I
enable tho Board, and one peb;§loner ohrough hié 0ouni61§1:.
to ueao.one ovodibility one one accuracy or ouch geporbu ~-
' - |92n
ea Mr. kluyn may have made to the #edera1 Bureau of Inoeié
. ' - ' - ' , .. ' . ' " -. . .. , . . - -92 .
gotten. 11$ 1o,iu that oonneotton that I'm aoeking to etoil
. _ . _ _ . _ _ .'_
mine and oo_anow on the record a matte: of one first 1de§ii. - . - " - ~ . -. ... - . . - . . > . . , _ - » .
fioatio ind tho first repobt made by'Hr. Biwyn to ea;
Federal Bureau~of'Iovaat13ati0n, 1 think Iim enoieleé ob
teat. , .. ' '
"_ -. lM.T§iPB3§ Hr. Choirmln,:mly.I Boy there thoi '
ouch 1n£oimao16n.ae 1e ooo6aeeof.$o'th1e 3oord'|ome§inE_§:.-
fair and equitable Judgmono on one 1e in the reoord.: Ana
r_ 2 . - _ _-*,92- .'. .3
I Noul 1ikBQI:0 to quote for B. Reno geotion 51.163 or
the Board: ouleo that: ' ",.- ," oA'
5- §'"Thc Board shall oonduot_ohe hearing pro-
. -f ooodtngo in nuoh manner an to protect from
, g ;aino1oeure information affecting the - . _ 1
i92|> -1 I J . Q.. . national security or tond1ns.to disclose -
~- ' b 5; op compromise investigative louroee or
_ 1 -mnthods," ='h_¢ I _ If _ II, _ 5 _ > . ' .. .1, _ . .. .;-- - *' HRi'hAb:§iwe1l,'wo are not dotn that, H. 4' .
--1 1/o*' =v - . 4 =-r**
_ rman._,Mr{ Alwyn has already testified that no ta1ked*f
--;» ',' * ' LIMITED OFFICIAL usz ' 'll~i. , ,. . - -' -.. - '--*, | '. .I .. . :
I. l .'_ _ .
Iz I, _ _ - - H ... -~ 1' " _, . .. . . , - . _ ., .._.. .._.. A A M _ _ _ _ _., _ . __._,..__ __ . - . __ _ .-..,...,_ ,_ .__ .,, ,,,_,_,_,_,_,_,___,._ _3_,:,---1 -1 + '4_»-an; Ln-r 92- u-r 'lu-isan-~¢- k
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,92..A_ .,-|,_-.;_.___ _-_.92_-AV92_1..__-5-___;,¢.;... 4|, ,.» ,__1, vi I -. 1 |- .4 __ _.I_ +.:-,'u~' -1.'q:__Q.l*"i-I ~ ~;_--4;-.' _';' -- -"@';' LLA
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.' 92
l . I ';_"I _ .- . -L. ' _'_. .Q i Q
* LII-[ITED c-mucmz. usz ' 7 135
win!» H0 in nae a ocndontiial intoznah-_ x do t .
use Ib0$l_lttePn or aoourity are involved in photograp _-
_ _ _ @ U _ . _ »_ . .___.
61$ 51' *0 DO-§¢!;l'm» -- - _ u _- " " '
-> 1. . __. . _
;_;_-"l _';;$1m_c:1A2mzm: ?+r:-11 _don_"t"we*db @5137 §1e*B§¬ ' M
proc094id¢ on thin tine °tqneitionin5 1nto_too roat 2
- ...~ - . :
datail,_Q0u1d you anau:rAtht9n§'qunatio!Nr. Blwyuf TL _
It: §'§§ you. Itia your dnoiaion. D9 you feel dia§o駧 l. 92 4 . I ' .
to anawa; his quaation about the photographs? _ x- > £
_TMR} PRl¢E:_ !buTmanti6nad earlier that ybu ed '
bein abvun h photograph ht anothér peraoh who Bad bieh 13 .
._ _- -_, ._. - - .»
thHlIo '_ ._ . : .: _ .-
: -92 .. v -. .' ' -. - -
_ MB. rR13E:? It wold be perfectly all right, it _
I f A Y85. _@hoy did ihow-no a phoioginpb ot bimq
_- 1 -. ninbs .Ih what connpotioh did they qhqq thig '_
to you, Hr. :;¢v"1 _Did they agk ion a question, 01:12" ' .§
_ . . ' - L ' ' - _ -. . -' -.
" 1 , ;: 4, "1imy_anlcad an 1: x_ knew cm mm; it be -5&9-A
. _ ' - ¢ - . ' . -
in the house av any §1m9- That is all. A -
-' MM. Ri without identifying ¬hem,how many
-photographs weré ohown'to you it the time?| -. . 1. _. A _ _ '
ms czyxxm-mu 1-:1-. Rand, -1 naked tbatlwe not
;pu0'thi§ 11n§;of qu§ationing- '1 anted him to ansnér t1- ._. y_._ _ -
.q92nli1on_ 1;'.;¢@31=9' he had n11uq=a_c5'1p.ur11er rpm __ g ..-_-
Y - 01. .. __ ._- " .
__ nmirm on-rem. us: jrt . _. .- , I
I _| ' I .|' ' I
0
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.
1
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.w
Q,.1 My new
inn-m':.;o u1|FIcIAL4UsE _. » »-4..L'._
1
AIBK '
- _ --CF
lug, about the quention of identifying tho photogrn ii. _ _ . _ .. ~
I think'92bia 1inc_of questioning ni11'got uq into the p 3 - -
V uric Imploycd by the P51 ;a;¢@cn¢¢¢1»5 nith their otntu;rq-In '
torymnoquiromontnto make invoctigationa,*and"I do*not rcii
that no can 8110.1 that in~thia_partiou1ar hearing. » ' _ ..
7- v - - > ' .- .- .
_ , J;§;.Mm. RAND: Mr. Onaicnan, may I note an oxooption ;1 _- "". 1 .
in the record at thic point Quito tho ruling of tho.0§i§ if
dud EIY4: atacq for the record that, although I did not ,%
.know what Mr. Elwyn would testify to, I had hoped, had I
boon permitted to puradl this line ct toctimony, to pony
on.tne record that the circumstances in ghioh Hr. 81uyd~f
mado his first identitioation to the Podnral Burbadnof fD
.Inyoatigation of Mr. Dayton no one of tho persona-in tho ' '
ooartment, Apu?Lm0nt>5-I at 65 Morton Street, was ouch I3
to mokn ouch identification onroliabie and not
credibility in a proceeding bcroro tnio'Board.
_ ' THE CHAIRMAN: Noted for the record.
- _. - _. '_
- - ; ' _ -._' . _ ' ", ' ' =_cuas'r1ousmrmn.'nmm 4' Q j
.- I _ _
j - = Q gr. Elwyn; you said earlier this
you oollootod n11 the rontc in the apartments,
right? Q - " . ' _'
1*» _ A A11 the 1-_enta_ that people pay in
"1'ne=-one comic: aiiqm {who mailed nfow ohoolm
A the majority °:;=h¢m I oolioot, _~'
_ . . v '_ . >» : -- _ _~ Ln-inn! omcm Usnp __ .'-
northy bfi -
I A
. 1!
'1-31
1 ' 92 .
morning'thét
is tht
. 1-} _ -
the houo d
to the 0 ioo;
4 . I - -A _. "._,_ l ._ ._.__- .._;..1...'o.---~-- 4-._-~ 7--,»-_.<E A---- --4 »* - '4- ~-~+
_ Lmmm venom. usu » _ 135
. f I _ ._ 92 ' ' '
_ _ _ _ Q D1-1 you aver collect any rants from 1..$44-A
' A A 110, sir, I novor din. '1'hat'wa'e'im£ied um-aogu
the~o1ttoe-.- ~- * ""*' '""" " '7 "'T'f'"'_7 '_T*?_'1_7' i
1 .- 0, mm advised you that it was nailed through - . | - " . v J
tho @319», thn ornooi ' -*7'=_{
A_ -- A rho ottloe", 01' bbufaol ,. -5 H "-'_ -
- --or »
_ _ 1 Q A-.-.<1 thoytold you never to totnai oonaottnig
mm, in that r92.;;h1:? ' . ; L
_ __._... . I _> _ -'_ _. I.¢ - '
- ' A Hwy said, "Ion d.on't have to botharltth
that apartuoni/because thoient 10 llwny mind 111;". . v__- -A 1 I .- 92 I . . __92 _- W4» . _.92- I. Tq ' {ma you know of your own luaobwlodge-tho
the rent in or fromvbem it olme, of your mm lmowledgaj ~
Mr. Blwynj not by hearsay? - , - - '
. . . 1 A 1 , c
_ A.. Ito, I do not» '_ t 1" A -
~- ». q than you rm: om an-. namn in the ha1iwé§--'-
an youhavo toniriod fun have on those two occasions tin
soptembar orQé_'t"ono1§ of 191$--dig he look any ditto:-anti
than ho A1098 t_ocL'.1y,fn1.ttlng am-on the tabla from you! __
1 .
. A Yea, ho was a little thinner; . '
~ - Q A.-.u.92_wero theme any diffs:-out gdornmenta about
92. ". >1- 5 .
_ 'A filo, ho did nO_?§§__ - f . -, 92- ~- . _,tug fans? D1d_ he wear glasses! '_ _ ' -_
__ Q 1-can there anything also about the face that
wun.l_lLtt'orontI 3 1 A ' ' '-
j - -' LIHITZRD OFFICIAL USE -
92-ii _ _, _ _ ._ _ »- ~ _ "_§~"j'F --_---;--.- '1-"A--él.-._'a~_-4_;¢ -=-»>-1->1:-r =~-u-'-Au -~~l-3 [email protected] 1 ' ~ ~ - - 4--* "4--=u;4-4-r "92-92-¢q-'1-_=-5_92':~- F l--AV-» H- VJ1-~n_.|.6a-Lat-a.~
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'1mxrmnwrzcru.-Hush V . - 136 -I
. _ A I didn't notioa anything different; .b h '
. _ _ - ;_ !
the aama toaturoa today tha ha had than, axoapt ha ta a; 1. __ _ : ' .
. ___ er today tha1whn no ll ihIn.' ~-~f ,'a§~ - *'
.i_'__Hi;HQ"__@@np_ygu aau_hlm_atbtiuginqhe-apartment;~*
" whether 19 be innecember_o£ }9h9 an you nan tqabtty bf Eh
other data; you have baatifta§_aar11ar, di ha look anf
Adlfteraat, Mr. Elwyn! A
Wh-
Q
AHo
l II!!
'r'
sue
_.= '... I :1.{ _k- 92: * 92 -nB0d9 I Ihl; - H -
did at that time?
needed a shave. - ~
was heavy-bearded? ' - _ '
waan!§ Q00 heavy, but he 5a.4@a a ahav§_
. from what I could aeo. . ' ,'
Q What happanod tothia furniture that was left
-in th bsament, I-Ir» BIUYU? . '- I ' .
- " A uo11,.1t wan taunn away, air. _ > *
- - - Q You d6n't know by hhom it was taken away, 6g;;;p
a 92:,67-*-
~ 'whon, do you?
1 AH0, I GOONIQ
92 '_?]_ Q "wan it taken away beforé you wart approanhéd
A by the Federal Bureau of Invaattgation poop1a_or after you
'92
Wple? _
.1§.I .. . '
. - 4- ;_ , . nF .
-were approached by the Federal Bureau of Inveatagatton
1
' _'A. Dcforé. ' ' . I
A in », ' _ . _. .' _ _ _ ______
LIMITED 0F?ICIAL_USB
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131Lnnimn v< r»'mcnz. uss . 4
I .7: .x l Q1 In order to get your tsatimony straight
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since ens lunuheun rnosss; lrs you up tolling us that __
'- .; . - -. - I . '._ - | ,
_1; our'bsst recu11ouEiqn'u0|$assd uoh ybui fsfrosh1h§*"s
<>f.i'edul1=o1=1<>m' hah__t92_1_q_sgs;_-b_;n3g:_ou¢ _a:1b_s_uhange_d_l:"bai< = HP, _.
-__ _ Mi *Q55m they may,hn§e been befo£s,'in the nuns of Barant, to
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'e~e;- A Tha8'a right." j;_ - ,¢§ - V-' z -,
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inn. I_hOps unis doesn'§-~ ' - 1 H . h
' §§_; '1'as'c:m1m-mm - Make it m-1er_.i A " ' ~ '
I _HR.SIPEs; ll hops this_dossn'§ give rise to n6¥§
quolsionsé- i, § I =_ - f,' ' . I-»7 ~ *s ';
rm. §m:m:? 1: may. 1 l ' _' O
MR. S1935; Mr. Elwyn, you watoho¢_Mr. Dayton
hero s number of hours todaia I Mould Just like sq ask
you,_Mrs Blwyh; is hars in yous mind any doubt shatsvss
that_thia is the man th you saw in and around, ls yuu1 I ' - .
have tsstifi¢d;'hpnptment 6-I,_65 Morton Bbruvhi ; ;
n.-, Q A i fhéro is no OUb§.Ih§O9V9P in my nind;A
I k. = - ='.
which I hava'stntud bofbra an I still stats, there is ho_ . l _.. , - . I
., ., | _IT. R _ .' MR? Qnbz This has bpsnsd up a ssriss_ot quos
ns, Mr. 'G'f1z1|_z'1..an; _A A _ A . _~ f _ IA - _
H~"_.'» -- x? _ v~ ."»1 '_f' _ =-- _ _ <
:h' . _ MM} sinus; In what line, Mr. Rand? 7
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" EA MR. STPES: Hay I inquire and qusstibn, Mr. ¢hiii§:%
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- Lmrmn L-FPICIRL um: . ~ "138
- 3 Mg. RAWD| Juno in oonnootion ui§n*§hia quéuti at
__j Tm: omm-1m1.o;oo~"s; nr;,o1oo'q_.-jaw-§ lpislor . -;=Il.'A~
' lborwiroritioozioon ot_ nhn¬'7on"~2Ju§b hound HF; lioyyni <""i""L H. YI!929_5&ad i I "' -I pi-_' ' -JAJ .1.
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qpnqgoL!npg_quonhion._,_{1%f,i:i=_
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My I ask thou: quootiona§ "Io Ohhif92 1 . - . . ._ - . . . .~- .5 -~. ,-_ _ , _ > _ - _-| .»V -- . ' I E -i W :'.;. _ ' . " _' 5 ' --.. "
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Just bruahed by him,
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ti;-oo occasion you_l|l92!.Mm oavooo iou é
18'bhB right? 1 ' - .'
right. . A, , _ - }
tho locon oooasioqnyon_lgw Mi,_pniih.
con, you Jnatliwuahad hymn, is that right; air! _
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i Q Amlon,_ ¢rigm. ._ m . _"
the third occasion when you testify
you now Mr. Ddyton in the npakbmant oithin§_at sno ooo§"
. . :
cable, hon long n.pef1Od was it you obaoried him thorn,
' j =.A _Huybo it nus two to three minutes.
In inI , .i Q; ;pn the fourth occasion that you testify ibu
naw Mr. nayéon; it was as he ualknd by tho dooiway or §6u¥
.* 1--
apartmant. fon long
I
. I . _did you observe him then, Mr. Elwyn?
---.A* nfuw minuteao. " ' -'
J i q-'jq[f.nnon_you wore_ahown the photograph'ot j _fqumsrious or rm. nmmi -_-- _ =J
r
__ Dgton,[noh'ion§ woo toot photograph boforo you? l 1o *
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Lrnrrma Ornotm. us: '
_ _. , .-A ' . __ .p A.1"'$Q;-_92u_,__.;_,_,-__,.'_._ _L_,._:_q»'_~_.-i~-+~-;....-- -L-:%1..A.¢',~,'-4 ~'u-r- "~' ~-+ - ~ '1 4' ' 1-an-an-1&1 . _92_,u;__fi - -~--n-1-nn~ -Au.l.l.-__'
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4' _''- #1 3, ».' "~¢92 ~ 5;.
z.1m:'nm umcczms usn 1 ' £39"
1 :A Ab 1.10% 30
D . - - ._ y;_fQQ;ZQi1Tuhcn you
._I ...
thu you period was it, .
l _ n - '
._ q 'How_long
" > __ ._alrp0r8¤ ' _ '
r.pooondi,'lnd takan'iuay from id. .w.'. , - . ' _ v~ _ 1" -|,_,_,_ .- _-.. _..-mot him at bha airport; honiloné " .
saw Hr.Doyton1 "1 f -
v .5
long Q p8rlod'Iac0d:hldf a '7
did you observe him? ;-_ 5 _ .,'¥? _ _ . _ 1,, n" ._.. - '- ,92 i ' . . . . , . . . .. QHe ualknd-{pom tpo plane logo iho.han5gf} §HB 92
., ' "J _ ' . -2-5'.-"._, > it 92 r I . - ,.-1 - ' .3":-_.. _, . _ . < ._.-. , _'A4 I I _ . . _ ..1 | 92 '. . _ _' . '1 '7'_- . .,,
. _ , rm: czmmmn The terminal? - . _§
; . .
._A _
QUESTIONS BY MR. RAND!
. _ .
,4
Q And than
." AA 5nat long enough to"ahako hands with him. 'Ha walked lutotho"torm1h§l and up to m5j"
l_ _ _E. ,._ -._ .- - -1
' >-* - ' - .-1
2 .. Q {gnu t:hen"hoQ long dld you .m.-vo. had; aiiil
he loft? ' '
, _ i'u¢:'a right. adv he shook hands mm my hire
and my {other too. -_ .' l.v I 9 . l
" Q Hon long 1 perlod won he' standing _be1or§
would you Bay?
I 1A=A¢<>u:>19_¥~ ' '
- I. - - . .--4.1 . ' . ~v -,. ,_, . ¢. ' _ - : 1 . - , _
O1 minutes or moro. _ ' ~
, -
I Q§AlWuen you_obaorvod hlm in Foley square thoroé -_ ~ _ 92 - ~
ofter,_Hr. Elwyn, how long a ptrlod did you oboervo him?
. 4 : ~
_ . A1 uuyboga half hour.- 5 - _ ,-. .
A .1iiF_ Q. At Foley Square? '_>;§ -
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of l=!r_.fDn:!ton. Ev. znwn. bu pun up an em-rm; aqua
1,_ _M, 1. gm »1gh§'e_-.j-Q __*fI~"-':*
~ ' 1., A _?PS§js_y1sht-__;; M, ; _- -~ ~ ,'~é, ~%t"7* f
1 _- Q . Q And at thatttma youhmew that It?» Ddytbn iii
MP4 mtg , 5'00? _ '_ _.:;- ' - . _.:;' . I :5 - .= '
. - _ . . I . . , 1
_ 1- ' '1!mt'H 5":"»_"_' - > ___g > ;' ~.% g 3- t . .'. -'-- -.,-;_'-::1,"' _ . ._ . ._ ,4 .
a freak; in View or the taut that yawn Buvpoi-intondant of '
a large apartment building having 80 units in it! _
|- . *1 A' I view hur_xdr0da_ of them, u-Ail remember ttat =
fauna tool air. . Y] -' »;- -'"-7-"zu .;.- '- .
OQ time you over mt me beiore,_Mr. Elwyn?
A gm, I never did. ' _
' Q _'lhank you- _ t "
__'m8 CHAIRMAN; .U1tnea_a_1a lxoullO_6¢ F _
HR. !1A.92D:_ May I ask the Chair to requut-'-@_ -
_ MR, 'SIP.us| Thank you vary much, Ir. Elwyn.. 92<.,' ' . - - .92 'I .* I ma. harm: --to ask 1-Ir. Elwyn to réfrain :1-oii
.A_d1a0una1n3 this matter until no are through with the othéii
_w1t naaaas 7 . " '
B113 C11AIm~1Mh lie will go through this other or-Q
Esi a matter o1_ruct:. ' " - 1 " "I . - - ~ . '-, 4 _ . ._ _- .* .' . _ _ ' - - - -1' ' _' ." . , [witness tuba ciouie:i'.]_
2 tmzm ozmcnn use A _ '-Q ncu many =p'eop1a,lpprox1mate1y'3 do you*n'i>aért'ri
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Lnum urncxon us: L .. _' 111$
___l{ H. sfna Mr» Ohoirmn, I donft know nhithe _ w > . _ . ~ 5 . ' n. _ . . .3 - - _ - . , _
your mung oovors 1me'p1>1nu'oa hho|_lo__nox92i Uwo niuioaii?
--*==_~;; THE QHAIRMAH: I.wn|-going to ooboblioh I 3Oe'"-
qlnut_§0i0d_fo2_bohh~0$~92h0m;~- -- A *I 1"*"i **'f'*
u;' 5' Mm. RAND; I don't think it nix! So adequ§£9§1¬¥u
Mr. Oho1gman._ 1'6 11ko_to_5o book to waahlnoo $965 j?%1L';_ . ,-_ _ .- - .._s'
have on §ppo1nl_:=nont coma:-row" morning av; m.-hm: 5551135?, . ,» . . _ . . ' 1- - - .
this, but this la extremely important, M. Chairman; ii -
don't know anything about thoao paop1e.. How amol over 33»
tug to find out what I ought to ask in ib Iiuutost '92' - 1 . * Icmxmmm _._z mm that so ugpuuan pm. i};-2|»-*-.. . .. _ . _,_ 7 . . - ,_ably bi ljery roaaonabli time under tho olrcumsanood, .'
Mr. Rand. If at the and of 30 nnubea thorn la lnything
there that lounn 1;ko it dooagboat vioxonoo to you cine l
I woul ba glad to review it} but I think Q 30-minutl iiiu
- . . : . _- _ _ ,,_ |
*- .uou1d gtvo you an opportunljy_bo_ouoh up0n'tho oogonb ¢§&
;--
'»92--..H01.-
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9wgermane prOb10mn at hand. _ -_ Y .~ " '
. MM» nouns I don't frankly know whats no aria_ _ _ . I .
A, BE CZLAIRMANI I bavogreat confidence in youié
faculty at getting at the heart of these problems,
- ' MR._AND; Thank you, air.
' _ A [Orr-the-rooord diaounaionl V E i
. 1 _ - _.'.; , _ - _ ' 'o ' Q,
- ' ' "r1m ciu921m1m| anon no call who um: witness?
_ LIMITED OFFICIAL USE "
1 L. _,_ _. . ..-..._.-_- 1;.-_:-:_-____-___ 1.__-~»_-~.s...!- 1- -1.-.-..u---» _~ if »--=-- ~- »'=»- -- - 4- _~, '"- -iva-plga-1-:4-_;:'' - ' ~~Y~"- |n-A-'i£I-.~'4.,._*;_;_- -
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_ 1.1:-mm uvncxn. usx " mi
- o " -__~~.a':.-1/1o ~- upon, ' ~ :~.** .~ '»-i , 1 ! _>* -1' ;-; l *1";!ik.Q.!i;.E§k1.§-If- -" £313 "
11::s.n.om mmm um:,nan., 5.-if -7/'~*?K*'"_ .¢ '»~_'; -H- Twmm1&@&%V .- dd In I Nitnnna in §lhl1f'0f>$h0 Board, hlvinc boon ' -.. . . '4My MW _<!_u1v'_IWo=>11!iv?!-tug-F-1~@d-=8 -rp11=m==~ ~ -4+ o o- "
H - Q E3'n95.'3 BY Tm °1 n - Vii. " ' 11*. V F .
~.A Q wn are going. to nun kooithiu to 5 _.
mum and no hone that you onngive un o full diooloouré of-'. l '_ ._. =.' - . .92 r!all the knowledge that you have in connection ith the L
inoidont on whioh_we are about to oxaming yous H0 hopb _ _ .
_ that uoéuill be as easy on you an possible and permit you;_
- . ' - - '. : | - .1.
I ; L - to loavq_at tho oarlioot ponqiblo moment.q;Ho ur04_howayé§; ;_
A ' anxiousnto oov-2.=.~ -cettaih balo facts and to got ion!
- _ . hand knO18dg0 and impressions of what transpired. viii "
. > you please Btatc your name and nddroan tor the rooorda l
I .._- A _Joonne Elwyn. I livo at 65_morton 8troot;,}.
~ Q 'Huu, with that, I think that if you oouidvig. ; ' . ' -1' 1 ' -
3 _very quickly tell us, the mmbit or tho panel, tho'poo§l§ -. : ~_ . . '- - 92
~ in thin room, oxnctly uhut you know about r. Dytoh, tho
, timoa intolvedg tho'plaoeo, gnd any of the ciroumstanoob
1 that surround your knowlodgo of this gentleman aoroao the0- E
_ .table from you3ndiouting Mr. Dnyton!. ' ,_, _iii? > A woll,_my knowledge of Mr. Dayton is tho-dog
l . . that tho turniuuéo who moved room Apartmont_6¢I into th§}-
. . v. -
' = 1 " an-um ornczu. van - ' -
. . 1 I .
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in0_n§ But;-1.de. of my*ao'qr.~.4' 'M>that mu §r;'o:-d nan ;; ;.
.Mi. nnyhhh} Hf} Péri; Ind?! Bdltové lhIn?M{ §inaa§bn6,hil:
~ n nii ahrb uhdthcr it tn'nr,2iheatbnc Er Y01hihoh§; ;_"
I :~ . 1 ' :rm ' ' 1 - . .-
aion fqéko ou intb tho bhneddnh at thd himl ind thih 1a'I-
-_' - -;~ .1 ;.- -*- ' " - " -. >. - . . -1 ..'..thu him! hat I aaw'Hr. Daytpu oh the prqmliyi pf 65 l0§5h_, -> I . . . .i.'_I. r "".- " -' - £-sc 1'1" ~ ._ ~= . - ». . =2 . . ~ _roe » . .. .. _.~ --. - . .-. _ - R. ' . - = - ,. 1 .w. A --_ -.~ - F -» '. .. :. - - ' _ - , . 3 -; '_ - ._
, "q .Hra. Elwyn, do you recall the ddko, tho sxmég =
cm any; at cm -.n.~=1:, the time or the any, and month, we
year, or any ohhéi feature? §_"' ;l ' :1 2 -7*
. _ . ~ I. " .
,"'.'jht K 3§h¢ chant datp I can't say, Cue to the fit :2? ._. . | 1 , - . - » t -ml . - 92 . ~ . " ' . ' 92 1 " - "that I have, hhthhthu pant jar, been §ur§'i11, -§7] ' I
| ' |
- Q zfuu, mam. - -_ .
E A And I have triad to the hept of my roooiidéi
=t1on_to §uca1i_thnjh;nct dhta.- I have coho idea at th§ B528
of §h§"uonth,fgomuwhare'around hhere. I an not poa1t1k§§=
I couldn't swear to it
H Q-..Dn yap rbca11_ph19h month andlhioh yuari _
1 , _A§ .5; umi1< 11: was an January of 1950. _ 1'». nub
jsure; -R0oa11ihQ the tlnan hho'§a in tho gpartment ndh,5- I
§.
'1.bhat
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B8316wh1bhi db knoh, etnotly a week later when they took
I ;-. _-Ioaseaiionlbf the_apartman§, a child was born in ti
10;: hid_itiu111 be f}vp_yea:a old. _I{m-rying my {
_ _ _ .,, ._,.- _. _ _'.___.. ._._-.--A #..'.'__.' '*..:'-'=_.;;.-_..;........'--._¢' ....92;__i_L-_..~;.-..i-~» ~17-L-~11-'° -'~~-~ -~ -' ~ +7 "I-7-1..-5.8 "v'_1¢~ 1 <9-3" __..---5-~@- ;¥
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LIMITED uFFICIAL usn » ibh'
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I ivn¥'l:= Q14 thin yaar..;;~ . '-= f - Y.*i1. . _ - . . 92 > '
F ~j¢; 3; Q,j Db you rdogil hdTtinfof_dg§ it who orqf J; f~ ~_, _ . - -.,_.,- -- _ , ':' . » ' ~ ¢ "
, 3 li-hat it was a nook diy.0r*l,lunddy9 i33¢-" ' _ H
>1_.| __|--. . . ' IA;l;__;__ ?__ _:_ jféniaux th{nkf1t*m1ghb~h$Y0-bean~0n~& Sunday; z1é- *
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-1 - ' _ ~ - _ - .» - <.i. .92._'~u*5 §.Q _{¥QQ any that Mru Dnyton,'Hr§ Pdrl, uni anoéf, _ _ .- _ *. I '_' -' ' -'
agqnlgmgn-Q-» [1 I i,
"' - 4 _A hr. Fineatono nan there}
_ - ~
_-_ Q They were moving tunltnra doin from 6h! $5.
tn: bangubat fiph in fpony of your apaitmenti *_ I ~
. in-l1_A }In front of my apartment, yea, air. .-, '. . 92 .
- --~_q nu you nqcali anything oia|'hbouc uni of %
those gonhleméia,-.l1ow they were dressed? i -
- _ A 1 noiiova they had on auntana. Mr. Pirl G13
~not- H6 had on; dirk sweater and I think it was dark
' -.- : .' . .- -, . ' . .- .' ----
pant§.A' But Mp. Dayton had on auntana and 1 think-blid 5
inot Bur0§-tha§.Hr. §inultona_di4. _ 1'l~ ' - > §
' -5 Mm_3IPES§ Do ion rpoall what gind of furnih§6
_ A D .§_|_' .Iit min hav w@?e m0V187 ' ~ i YT
_ A Hall, to tbll you the truth, is wasn't vary
_ . I .
muoh.i I know there¢naa a couch. There was a kitchin chii§;'
Ki recall a paoknt. :1 think there was some kind or a litffer1Q50 t§b}q Q; Qropfleaf taplo or something to that 0f¬ib§-.And $hqn§hr§ néru a fen ¥i%t16 bunks }bh lpma-tnlng§:A__
» E; ;-* *=_ L1m1Tnu.0vrIcnIL usn v "" "¢ . '
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._-mmmn QFFICIAL us: - .1115 '
.}yI~bo11~ve they uon0.k1tohon utena11a and th1ngl._ Q.
11.l:e'th'at'.-""-' - 1; '; :-;. * . 5-. -.. . . . .- . '¢' -' 92 ..- '4 -,
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. L -E :._:: 7;. -92 >-~_-='- .._ .A..._.-_-'-"pl." '-_!_h -_-4..-:- _ 4;-' 55' '4 1~ v~1 T l'¥:-LQ;'-4-I "Q '1 '- _._~_.,_». -92 * ~"q4Q~
. ._» . . : _< . L iii»._._ ,» . . _ - .
nunswzons mr Tm: cnnmmu i ' ' . '
I H - ; Q ~n1a these bogs: havo anyonq'a name on 6hom!_
Or wanton}: fonnltuna tdon§l{@0d tn any ulyi '~_;_5;;.j1-I
. . 92 Y - .. .- -; - ___ _ .. . _ _ I t _'_, I 92_.- 4 . . -
'. Q no tags or anything? Y ' ' ' .
No tags or92
.' - -..A
_ . , 4
mission or my husband to leave the thingy tn_he baaoménB-
for en: _M.me being and they you have an on Ilhln a '_ .
». -' _."_ 5, ._ .~, Q. - : .1nu»-= om; I. Y - ::;'.: " = A -..- .-, '1 . »' _ . " . -.. ' .: - 1 > - -
Q bfo yon oomé to nho door and observe thoné »
three gentleman? 1 _ ' '
3 1*; A You, ; ¢td._ I_uqnt out tutu the basonnh.
v q -Ana tnis gentleman, Mr. Dayton hero, And'1§
-_' I. . A . .
caning!, ans hé one of the throb men thorn? Ly 92 - .L
' A jinn, he was one of the three non. Thht I do
. :'- '..'- - - =dor1ntto1y rompmber} ' ' - "'
. _ ._ _ I _ I . . .
_ I I .-
-* ' Q pa you recall how long you observed than --
hile ltand1ng_thurG? Did you talk to them? -. .. 1'' .; ID -
i _ ""A .nu,"iFd1dn't apoak to them." '1 have I liar1. I I-n-.. '92 .
ioe my door _an'd_I want over and put, I believe it w ,
joyo1oth haé i nod boon using in tho noupc on the 11n¢.;'»
.. , < . =92 _ 3Q-_ _: ---._92 . 1.. ._. - ' 5.-' ' 1, ' _ ' -
I ; __ L_IMI'1I§DOFBIOIA1-USE ; =| , . _ I. - | . 1 .' .1 . ,'_ 4D I J: I : z: E _ -| . . . 'g A
. ' . .L . z ganything on it. iwhoy aaknd Pfu ' Y
3
5
g.
4~..
'92
_.1_ _ _ ,- __ 1.. . -" V, '. - -.-.., _.92.-92n|L..-1.~..-I-:.92_' __-|_._L-.._:~ n k 1 - _¢ l -,, - i-92.|:-a»v~~ 4 92-§nninm-~
ii _ .
fl
92
G3
r '_~
1 4
1
i
a.< r
;qn 3-
- _ _'_:-_*=_ .
1_,.a>[_i
I - l .'-, .- .-. v. _ ,, . 92 "'-"' .. .| . --*
4W 92 --- -. :.-' .' ~. - ._' ~71.» ,-r"'1-
, .
_ - nrnxmn uFFIOIAL usn - . . llié
. . ."92 . _ _
- 11 "you no-at 1:16 to go into datn11'nhy'_I sm tho Hm
A , Q A .- -. ' _ ,1 ; - '»
to ta}; n_ good look at the gon8lcmon,__1I will . ,-:2 A. '_ .
'-*%?'L-{h'Q' *1h1h ll hho poln§Ai §noJ;ni;5J'i§g§';oin§""
~ . . - .~¢4 ' -_so d1.so_nse_.i __ _ l do - ~. T--f--
, .
W - A A92.?-.~.1'l., it youllivu in an aparhmlnb Bound ind
. . _ . '_ . , -I '' .__ - 1 ~ . ' - . 4 --2-A
you hoopla talk about the *__"ghoa1:" apt:-tnbnb} QM-- . -: .1 - - . . '92 - . ._. ' .
Belimud ;rn1:hu¥ spooky, and amp like than! was rabbit ~ '5.-$'..
. '_ I -1-~
ouriou-9 to nee who tho people nan who hadvboon in the V
apartment; I _bm1't nay anything about nho who in tho ipii. -v-
meat booaun 1' have never been into u, or anything oladi '
- i _ - :5:
But: than la 1:; natural cur'tonAl92:y when youhoar than Qhtrlgaa
_. _ . ._g- , 5 . . _:- _
» Q fllud thorn boon rmnora to izhta street ubr"6§~iT u
. . . - . ' 0
thin date, Fran Elwyn? _ - A '
A You, the tenanbil had called it tho_"'ghoit"
-apartment. =I -'1 ! I _ ' I - I I --I In- .- _ ,_' .. . . -
- _ 1,.. .. - - .
_ Q ,_p:-avlpun to thin dnho! ' ' ' _ :
< = A Pvovloun to =u1i date. j gg?
. !_ _ _ - _ _-¢-_
- . ~ Q .- its you stoodond nblerved than n:-no lndié .
vidualaor some little tlmt, did you? ' ', , 1 . . .A | -.
A won, I was maid: tho door first and thin I
'92_m1mo outaidép the door. Mr. oayton nan on um» nan of
jthe door lndfcotzinp; tho loft lids! and Mr.'F1nen'tona_w-, ¢.'
on this aide _;!_n_a1ca1:1ng lzhonight a_1de!',_ and Purl Q
.- ndlng turthm-"bani: by a oupbonrd ma no have ln'1:h0T' ' 1.,
. 1 I .J _ _ ||-U" U . .,- nnmmornczlmusn "
_ __ _. vI , _ n .n | . ; - . .1'-. - '
;,".__.-_.92." -- ¢.a£;*.--1 ¢- 92.4 --'-1._.b¢-1'_~_- _-'-- V;-> i '--92.uhn..J-=4" >1 ~»I-1-"~*
O
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I
1 .
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J-
I
0
5!an A--1.
r
Lzmrmn mxvzcxm. us: ' Uri A
omono ouba 1.0;: the door-qhog-one lcoop brooino and _ "
» ¥, . _ .-~' .». _. -: =_<o. '._, .."-.- 4'. -. _ -- . - . ---.: - '" --.___;._'_- ." 'rh;92t waotn-Januorihof I50'l_it-"-_.'*._ "
.-1-7..A__~Jjfxonnooi§g;{log_1!iVQ1y_;_,Al_i.-|ay|_.1-ha»- _-
beon_qutto'111. 'Iv'-had our-"loo: Opnration 1u_iunr.- in ,-. ~ - . . , ' - - '
toot, sngyj tell no ttl 5 uinolo rm hero; fgno hunm
onto pogo roar, notuoa11y,".!_.h_'o§1'i taken qui 5 ubiio '¥o_ To 1
roouporato. ~ ' ' ' ' _ H
A ' . q_ 'Lnt ma aok you thin, M2-o. Elwyn, do you - - -
0 -. o
rooall ova: having soon Mr. Dayton, other than on the o ,
oooooton that_yona11ogo?"* . 1 " _o ,
LA" ix_¢_an§u.uaoar'uo"u=,- but 1 u;1e'v'ocnot 2
. 1 I ' I '
did non Mr. Dayton in thb hall. I
1 : .
- MR. nmlbz Mr..Oha1rman, may I interrupt and
.ou;;g,-out that, unions tho uttnan to props:-Id to m»nor_92:o
.1 :.- . Ithose Itato:non{;;n_'_ano 1| mok1ng,"ono nt:ot:_om_onto ooght not "
be reootvod in ovtdonoo. B11: in ovmoqoo undonoath.I _ I , _ _ E _ >.'
- -mnyczmxnmm one baa lworn yo tho mmoaném.
The only bhinrfslio duos not lwoar fo 15 time prooioe daoé;. , . -
" MR. If-mime. No, I think oho and lhl oannot await » . .
fto having seen him. .A V l K.
1 I
- 4
'1! -
4.15; -1-: -92I
I 1 :1A I.bn[_ '.yOL11 pardon, B1:-I I did mo. 1 gt
?oa¥¢ I hon;-voi tpab I soon Mr. Dayton in tho hall. on .
.. . o - .' . . _ _
Hmo, Just Ap|l:!|;cc_-'1 him oaoun11y."But I!m no pooltive a1 __
. 1." - '' I-IHI'1'EDOFFIOIALU5E .
. - g I "_ 4' -Mn "< L ' 21- > .
- ; A _ - .
_- ummn m,-FFIOIAL um: - ilib
E5 , _thlt would to in the lone? unlit booausi 1 itidoa i "
,1 otinb tho Bta1uuJ It}: only non and 58.13 to i ova? gt_'{;i.-1 _ . . - - _ - .. ' .. 1
_. _§ _ _ - W ogtgirt, nd that ia_it I tenant otipu1it|i'thnt'ioho y
' thlugiil 99m_i.p{§ apq §h0¥'_!lZBYl§_ lomeone Jlith -izhéus;-1»!-~'-Pti5_92f't-°-' _
A i ~ _ mt is 0'Omi.ng:-or something um that, when it it mini but 1 -
. g _ - - ' .,-. -" .0-
in_thoipartment, it I would Qtoano, it my husband isn't ;;;
oroun4@ go up and do it; ,Anu I do that no-a;tavor,_but it -'~
_ "A _ - -._3 _. - _ .
is not vorv °ftvu. ' -~ - '* _ .
.
, . qugs-nous _:s1r'r1mo1mIm~1A:u 4 ' , ', - n I .
~. . . ' . _ I. " -,> . _v_
._n.q znu you rooaii when this happonod that you K
. . .,r
.'~ " may have noon him in tho 1owor.h;11? - -,;_; ,.-~_15-:3t
¢ . :.__ . ,1 ~ ' * 'I. I ,. L.- A That would have boon, I think, bavoral mothb
A .» prior to the clam of the moving of -the fumituru into thii
basomont . . I - - -
92 . J
, - '_1.Q It would have boon prior to that tint? » _
_.: -I-_|,._ _. I . ;. n
A You, it would hit! boon prior to that tints '
- .-I" _ Q I nee. nut utter the ante of Jnuuary,_6id
. -you ever aeaithia gentleman inuioating Mr. ayton!?
- A Q11, yea. _ " _
N Q You have soon pin? " _ '
- A .1: m=~.¢'uim at the isiewarlc nirptrt; x m him »
92 _ _ I . .I = ' who Federal Building. _ _
- . . . > ._; _ Q And thooe are tho only timol? -1.. ' ' -.
-1- 1;_{; - A I boliavé those are the only times nine! than
. .- . - . . .'-:'- . -* ~._ '_-~ '_ . ; . . .-'
1 iimrrzm ovnoxhntzxsn I
92
Q 1
J2-L '-.1?}I>5-*~"- 4l=5'~ -~- I, :1-~--' __1"'~i" _'~ -1" I n;' '; ii Jé; 92JI-1*" -J " *' ' > 'u¢l£l-nhlv -' .' -1 ' " ¢'_-'41.; '
LIMITED MFFIOIAL usn A 11:9
. I - ~.
, t I h@v0 Ivcn him, to ths_bo|t of my rocoileoion ri §_ ;
" >' ~ - -Jr J - -" - . 92 1:noa.'~ 1 . ~ ~ =-**--.~-. 1*? -
- . -_- - ._ 1- .. _- _ -- - ..-. .| ' '=~ 'q"_ union uoulq 92_"unx1m92Ia5 bi - toué btmgii I
' ' E "i°P1° '* =§!PE!5&* !=1=#¢=1-.1 3! _I4 ai-i_%_Liii 5;
L
4 _ -..._., _. Y1
O
92
Ew.
. fr»_:.-1:13 _,: I >..
3-11.3; .1» _firlii ijltb _I'm not positive. »_ > ~_ _' -='
l .. .1» _ . -_ = - - . ...- V .
quas'n__om_s ax rm. .rn1on; ; _ ¢ ~
- , "fg;g.q Iave you evur ngun h piohuro ot Mr. Dlvibi éy
~ "_: A -You, I hnva_laah 1 p1ctur9. '!he FBI lh§w§§-E39
m9 a pxqm-a aim HBRQQ ma 1': 1 roognised him. _ ? -.-'_-.. ' " ' '92 '; .
_ ,Q ?wu1a was before the airporp nesting? 1
V _ A _ {Hie-a, baqrp lgirport m0o_i1._n3¢_ =!'b0y -A1 ~- = ,~ -. '_ _ .|- _ . -
brought uavaral pioburl tn. -H-' . - 'v
Q why did they null this a ghoat" apartman$5
xwaanz not_qni.ca char on 1:. _ » *
.' - ._¢ A 'e11,f1t naemod that uomotlmon thera d1dn5§. A ; ' 1' 92_ x _ ' .seem t9_bQ anybody thori and ne next him hurc would S5
.a crupd'and there woulq be package after pnokn8@ s0tng_ouE$~
of the gpartmaht. Those ara Just abatomohtl made by_p6oié
=1n the house and they were all rather curious an to whit _
-went on tn tha gpartment. Of course, as I nay, to my '
knolddge, I'know nothing about the apartmant whataoevnri
» vs never bean in it. I don't know who uni inside 6
apartmantpé'hn3Q1n5 to that affect. Bpb gust hesg Q bu-. I A. - - _ '_92
;_ u and, f gudéu} my uomanly curidaity got me; I uanté'f"
., - .- f _ _ - _5 ..92
b inmrxm orézcmnuss " A
L1
0
|
A
.. . A _ - _ -_ . - . A- "".'T ' -- - '.-,' -'--'.n.v'_'=..m.>=_-_-=1L-------:~;.A-_->.2n1-v--+a--n_'»u.-!_IJ~--1%;1|-um? --1 ~ -> 1' 9292 -~- 92_p1- -92'~ ,->-'_.~-Ln-GA'-;"1_;_Ll___
_ _ ___ .-___
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92 .'_
. 92 ..
-. . .. 4:-.__|~-; _
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92 j
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.
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;.'92_ ii .- ; ..__! .. 1t
-n¢.- 'I:
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% Sb it
._ '|
_ nxmxwnn uFFI01AL uss . A 150*
- ., 1
_ e0.who new really connected with it in an9'wny."
- ~ .' ' | . _. . - - . ' 1"
_;§'; j;1QQ,Ap'ché tim6fiq saw H£§'naytbp ah¢,§hq§6"_:;;§}
>8l'l>'~_.e-Ul'|_8-8 in, whét: jdu thou'ght a.t lealt 3va.I' x".. . . -.§
.and_theae_otbéL;»-had_the§+pt~thé~£urn1thr§;down;§5r §§;§;.:
théy still garrylng the furniture} or Qhahi _ _;'_@; 5 11
_A . l,[ HA I 4 _. .,_ 5, M _H_J
h ;_A_ Tbéy wqre oarrylng the tupn1turi. I und6§¬' EA -. -_ ' 1 . - ' . _ _. - .
stand that thq1¢,waa inbbhbr fellow there, which I Q1665?. - I u . 92 - " - .
.uee. I bnly haw three men; but they say thafo wah lno§h;¥ ,
' u . . - . Y _'-,- - ' V_ - . A I _ _
fellow there but hejblalmé he only came into the baembnbié- 92 l ~ Al1 C
gt-least be aqld-no in {rant of me whgn be was broughi ~'"'
back, that hB;qom6 §nt0.§be baabmont onée with turnltufi ,§' . . §- _ ,I - - , ., .»-- ' . - " A -_ _ ,¢ ~.v 92.that was lnt in my;apartmen$~ And I believe he adid Ehit
Mr. Dayfon wasgthefe on that day. Ilm not certain of héhi
MR. RAND: _May I_aak that_thnt be stricken from
1the reoord.: 75 W I [I , ¢ ' '. »' ~"1
I-.|' - E. __CBAIRMAN:_ That in hearsay and I think tha¬ii-- 4 '.- M-92 _
- A; he-said it ln my yreaenoe. . -
2 . -
RAND: 92I18_Bt111 hearsay. .I think that §hSh
' ' 92 I -.- , ' he B;:
Chairman. | .I .
Q8 !
A
T"?ggggjf aphlyhht I Fh1dk_that la something we cap have
stricken f m the record I don't Bee any point in hav 5 . I.-O1: 1; . - "1. - -. .' . . t _:,_ . I _ ~ _ -~:_-"_d'- _. _' 1mahé thp ruling. _ "_ -
'.;a..'~ "-r .. 92 .
That 15 quite all right. q- , s .
QHA15MANg, That: rlgh. Rules of evidence
_..i » ..;.
v..
.. ' x
' i
.-
_ _ » . . - - _. H _ ' .1 : . - _ ' - _' _ '
.__ 92 _-.-~ 5 ? = Kn1m1wmnarv1czAL usn-' .= l
A - -_ .
*. ,-__._ >--4 A_ ,'. -=~ ~::.._..J.l."~" --;~.'._._&.;,~'---...< J -J~---'- --i;..4»A,-,:_.|£ 1.n¢: + -~ J ~ a..a--~'ar~-
|
.92q
2
I
I 92
-:
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4
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I
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5
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wk
I _ :1}--.LIMTBD uvntclnn van ._ 15i~ "
r__ . . .
~';=¥] ML R&WD:" Am I 11qlt0d.bo a Ion qu0llona¢ >
~ . - _ > . .|- _. H. ' . . , . A - .
_ ;____':_ _' nm.dn.92Imwh " Wu!-4you 10.45 416' hie: aha? vii.. _ . , , - . -.' ' . - " ' . 0 -,=§1¢-n1L6;[email protected];!;.>n=;-m:.-mna1..;,; .. ;* ';; 1"» =
; ..-I ~:,_ - .. ~ .. _ {,_: } -> -' ' "
z BY W; I-Z - -I _ __.>7" 5: :1. .,_ .., I I ' . . . . _ . _ . 1. _ ._ _ . . . __ '_. H . . .1 .1;¢;;._q urn. B1wyn,_por0fyou 111 at that ttméi Y '
;:_ A 'Ho; My tllnaaa nan due to an operation. ~
~_ __' Q 3¥ug~wQre not qlmbtng stairs at the_§1m§_'h
1 - _ . - - - ,. __ . . _;___-.1.choggh, ;u_uhnc-right? . ;_ ,_ -_ , ~_
; _ 1_=h§} & 41 did not go up_theataira tog many Q1nai1yf
- -' 1 - ' 92 A ' . 92 I - > .~
did too much, '_, In tact, I don't.n0§, and I nayar
- Q buvinh the luncheonraoean, urn. Elwyn, di
=' yqu réturn h_o.-:0 with Mr. Elwyn? " - h . __
.--";;-. A Ynu,.; did. f= 11- V ,1 A - __
qhat Q; Elwyn did IQ Lhg '92 T- 1-_ 3 h 'qf Qan you keiljus _
1 house? ' f! h _ ._- '¢h. _. . f Y_ n '
. 1 - - _ .i. - '. 1 .- ~ - "_ " _. A "e checked thy bioorda of the rant book.f- =- - :.--=- -. - _
. . 7 Q} Econ you §a11_h§ About this rent book? hhé
,sort or: bqoh in ate ' ' " A ', . ..92I . z._ I I - I .. > _I1 ,_' - ,-A' tc;1;f1b'a a bnok that 3008 back hotha your
éh =~. ~- = - s y- . - .
"§i9, tn which we triad to keep accurate ricordn if wg_ n.
» _I hh§aErta&:§§f§b§§h§1yL§u¬ aaouate dlhen 1h; hh Ch: "
__ '1'-Jm m:~1'<.-w<+_<1 rm pirocédmme. when and eh-n" M5 1"?
.'::' 1:>- I-1 - - 2- ' ' '-. ' J *3!;--.|-. i _ 1 J" _: ' _ I
. ; pr:-mum qrmonz. usn _ax
Qf
n
4;.. ._ 1 . _ 7-! ,,--' .~L92'...... - .1-_;-a.-;,_-,_-, - -.--.....'¢-.|._. E_Al|l"_A_.Q ~ - :..',~,-1-, 1--I L-I --~-' ~ 4 - ' ~L:~J- "- - ALA-K »»l ' -' 13-4- * pg.-..' 1.0Y
W
I
Q|1
l
it
~ - :
5
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1
L
§ Y j Q_ 'And ybu didn't know who this gonleman wad
iii*92
4
92 I 92 - - *
u-_ _ 92-92
w
.> . I
1~ ,LIMITED urrzcxan us: - - '15§
v n I Juat_£u11owed pus PiYlOQl»prOcl§UiO1 union ind
_ . " - ' _..' ' ' 1 - ,
Just §0:§hlngq the nameg_tn Uh books, no_4a§&i-br lnii _.?-;;
1 _ A_ __ :.. ., L, _ _ _ vz,£5: _ n___ ,:. uTillklhat. A» -. ~ '
._ 1 ,' __ . . r "0 ; ' . - .
;;:;l~»~Q tnu-were~not»oQrtain~othe-eznbtdatc;uh§n~-_=~
this acting incident oonuradi. , Q:_£A92 .'; 7 "' - - -1 ». .- -. . -'- ' ' ' 92 . I - . I -- . , . - - =-=- ~ :>,92-.-.= *
-, ,-"'-* A ne, air, 1 eunuch any exaot17;%2 And I iB&1n'§'f, > -:1 ~ I. I I-_ . . I . -1.
pant #9 IUlpu;§t§_8;lUl when I pan't remdblr izaotly @585 n. _ _ . Q . 7 _ _ . , . ,1 '- '.1 "" n 'l»' - h H ' g J _ H . _ ~A".g
: ; Q .£@u are not certain of_thu day of Uni nook in
nth this ocghrrod,'aru you, urn. Elwyn} _- - ' ~ g '
92 _ . . ji-
- I ;;-"A [e11,.a1r, it: going back about five yQirQ§'
_ __ - ._ ,- - > . z .92."' na "Q fknd you.udt! nb curtain at the data at 5&5 I
moving, is that right? _ Y - .V l . "
< A dAt;tho present lms, no. when 1 nan;. _ ~ ~| _ 92 _ . . ; _ .
J fna .,¥h@n nab §n1=9'-*;"_ . "* . ' *-" "
.511 1}7_A ;jUhan fab oo9u§inoahapbonld I was ¢&»=@iA*3f. 1
M..¢[email protected] > ' V n n
H - 'Qi Di ypu know Hr. Pvrl betbrn 92hut qii1@$§i
yon béen 1nér5aubua;ub1n1m2,> . ¢'I j; -
- " . l-* . . '
' , A-Q no, I nan never bban introdupod ho Mr. Purl;
I had tuna-Qné; 1 nqd never anon Mr. Perl bqfote. '
- . .' - - _. , ~
that_ypuhnoW,q;y nag Mr. rap;? ';;~ ,_~_n 1 _> _ -1-
__92_ _ ¢I naa toid it aal nil fdrl, that that aui ii. n
,nnmq-;¢";_ J 1 é " -. -. ' ~ I < =
- n .*v *- ' '-"- I -'- . _| .:,.. . .:1. . . . '. -ii ' '
~;-- ' 1 * . Lxnzwan OFFICIAL usa _ '- _92 .. ._ . . | . nf:._I . ._ kl -_: -.| _. A?
~
__ _ _ _ . .. ,- -¢_.._._-.--- _*7 ' . -' ' ' - -. '< _ ' _-_, -7 :-92-.*g_;_,-I;-"1;_ ,_._. ,-_92L~_'I_T_LZf_-'92=Li-:I**"-l§'*ttL-l;~J-. .5: -~ D -. ~ -,..,-.92_,-_.'___ ,._>.- -- 11- --in
|
' .u
,.'|
._:_. ';_
_ LIMITE uFFIOIAL_USE. ' 153
_ , . .
" Q A 1-:~.>_tu1:_tnah um you amqw know rm um.» ~..4|- . _. ...-l _ . -.. _' __- A m, 1'a1an~§1¢muu nanua"92_921l§92ai:_§no. 4 -1- -' LI ' . "- '- .. . " _ ' ._ * jhnh Q Mr. jar} Ill auppoind to;- -'* ' 1 "
____;M ,-_Q__§"¬;:."§;;__1:;!J.1,_yoiz* unawer-,ny'quent-lop,-p1eae-.1--Ydxi-* .
3 i am in§1_: impu at {man em that emu; gentlcunn ado n»-»._ru-i§ ;
.- » . .- . , ; _ .- _ '_- , _|-i- -L. -_-, .,. ,_ __q _'~ . .. _ » 1 . - - _ -' _,r A-__| . > -I ,. .»> . .- . - ~ ,--. ., .._-_. . . |. ' ' A J19; .Y- 4 ' ' - ' Q <" ~ .- ' ': - = '. _'. 1 - - ¢ _.- ' _ _ ' -.. 5| - ' '_', ' ', .
.' Eld y§_'lm§ti.:.l;lf Mme ... .
AA whbm you have in-inttod as H1-jilhaatonn br _Nu1nut_on6 iii g 5
' Mr. F-tnqatone or I-tr. Hetnetonoi ~ _ _ " - ' -
. _ 92 1 - '. » = ,-.A In»,-,1 be11'evadho'$iaa Mr. Siiranh "
' V: Q . -'Ha'.1 you noun him buforé, MN. Blwyni -
-I 1 .- _ - A ,. ._' A Yea.-~ :1. I 7 "
" 0' I.
1 ' 92
hinraelt as Mr. Barantt _' - _ '. _ I. . 1 _ 4
: ' " 'A me be ma am. Ho ma inked for em My
- ".' 1" I. I _ " . .. A.. 1 .- A of the Qpartinqqt; its said ha tomb: tho lnya . " f '. " '
A Q ':.':&n~1 yau had h kw for the agiyrtmn " :
_' A " - I N l I _ _
, an you have idénttfiod _aa bung Hr. Dayton, |5r_1or to tn 92 . _ 92
~ _ 't1me, nra. B1v.y:}'!__ ,_ _ -
... -§ I A 0.. . ..Ii
3 ' Jun ha that cm 33 not know um; the ge xi» ._-1
_-_ ;li92 N88 HI; 9";-. _'I ' J D L 'i - A 13
.- :.. .'... -- -- .. . -.-' ~ I
. . . . IQ" , ixrnwm or-mum. usn *
K
' .- gnu hd he coma down to you ind identified ' _ i
Had you ver been intzroducnd ho'th0 g¢n1Q"- *
_._-._._-~_:-4.1;--...-.'>-1.@.._;»~ ¢k -=._-_....',.4: V --L-,"4; -1' L 1 - ~' -- -- .:._.r..' ..
92- IG > mmmzn or-noun vsn _- 1511 ,
A I Md not_k_n01i by gape, i'92o;|t'§_¢ A
' I .- l Q '_.;1!:v.r_ 10nQ i; D is
I _ _ ' ; -ysiijouervbd tlmr~.:o'tlu~éo gentmb infttie hai192V1ay9V§_. 92¬':92'l' -
-;~=-~<¢%¢-<~t&vo~m1nutna,#t¢um1nutea;¢orh;t?-*+*~f~f%-*****-*f*"1ii A
A . - . _ .
__ _" V ;¢__-. I Ii; nab mph in hu Qmailwayy =1'twae 1;: Sh; -- - . I . . . _. . , 1 . 7 ~ >. . - . ' |~ , - -. 92 ~ . - ' .. *. 92 . . H. ' , ~ * 1 .. - . . __ . . ; _ - __. _ ' 92 -__ - _ . _ . - ' 7- - ' ~ 5. .. .92~ $1. .-. ~ ~* , --baaemnnh. oubawe d00re_ - i ' -A '. ' "- - .1 1
_ -. -' '. 5 92 - _ -'-' ;];H_-- . .,,.. _ H- 1. .1 w_92 ___- -A ' gm the ipalamnli-A 9uh|1_do and gum ii "
J
. A Yes. ' __ A q I"
A - Q iiaiv long a time nu than _Mra. Elwyn, tzhi;
- .. . _ion obsevvod thirst! three ganizléman in the biaomepk buhitii
._ " A I wouid my appi-_oxlma92zo1y vb minutes. 'I5n6§f
Q _ _ - . warp moving this atuft around__ put there -trying to plaeb u92
~. . T >QY M141 how long was it that you_obi:arved_
~ - Mr, Dytqn than-;».£t_:Aer in EM llrporbi '_ . ,
-. " ' A A011, the eiaot-qimq I can't>_uy.n:no1:1y. ' < '
I ' _ j_-1'-q well, was it va minutes, nae it ton an-1
- - --. .- * . |.- 92 ..ut:aa, §al u;'-"sf: in1nu1=ut "y' » ' '_ "1 1
- ' lv
' "1 A iflmagina we u1.gh_t.'bava.bean-w0 will ady, _ . _ I .. , I _ .~ ' _ we might um b-inn 15 minutes lltogagher at the 'g921rpdx*92=;
1 . Q? ring long was 11: you observed Hr» Dayton it -_, - 2;. Zvalley 8qua_re_, iiva. Elwyn} - _ - 1. 4 .
W . - __A l ~jT1;I11p1:'_that waa92,_1tbt_].e longur. _ _1_Lba11' _92 >- _ ._| .:= _- --L _.
j'_ t an pe_;'t1e92_pr;,i';{r a halt hour -_ I can't; any uxaetty; -
~ _ . . _ A A .,~. __ ,. ..
ur-nnmorizcnnusn 1 '
'7 K
.1-__'.-.; _¢.L..;. --:»_ A>_ _ L 92_ _. 7.- »: - . .92 '4 r ..:.»'_ ~J'_'|- 5' , _. k __ ll i _i _, »_ __A _>_ __- __{___. _ _-'~ 5 -|"._~..,'_'?_;_ -___-- _-~_92" --'-, --JAB--44-I-1-» <!_:_~H:..
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- x.:n-umo unnczm. us: - - 155
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~~E A g Q, gnu did noo'appoa§ botooe tun urano Jury, _{d. - . __ _ -. , 2.
Old 9o92':;'}!1'8.F;121yn? > . __
._== f A H0, I dlé not, lir. ' 1 7 "-,- '- 92- ». _ 3-.,. , _ 92 - .___f;j;§i Q"? Ken wone-navor-ca11oa1-~~- 1' *'*? " .
' s. ' - _ - _-_ _ I I ' _ i ' . I
-I . A > I _ _ i I D 0. {T 3. _ I -. _ ,
.- 92 _ _ , ' - - -I I r
-;[j;¬;;+q_ nréa slwyn; can you tall us qa 1v gas; Q1? 1
unyth;n;.poou¬ the gentlomoo you oaw.1n'thi'p§i1nay-hhg i. . I >. _ ¢-_ ' _;. - 1 '
morning of the moving incident-~ . f . - ' _
P A 1 didn't ace mm in cnq ualuay. n ' "
jnrkid him for_#ou_§baE you iaéiv
the photograph ;au¢v on9__ ~ '-u'~ ** = 'Q - ---whidb no
ab1_o JO _1d:6nti.f¥ him from
-!,j'u I Th! tao 01'the roportu from tanonto on hé
aplrhmn 0 <
' Q Xmt N8.B'1tabout thin pavt!.ou1ar'gent1'lm'lm
whom'you havb how tdentltiod in Mr. DaytooQ yao ber: in§3:£
oh1ng_Itrlkln3 abou his appolrlooo on that 8:7 qhan #05
can him? Did Hn'huve any particular article of olothlng
on? D1d_ho hnid n particular kind of n noon; or oars?
unk wao,1t about h§m in that flva minutoa observation, it
édyohtnag which you found striking? - '
In A I weal, r. Doyton is not_a largo an.
I ;. L
I
;
- /Q3 . ..» h .' I--. -. 1,-. 2 .- 4 J: _
an I- . . iI .
' 0. 1 _
. I WI=. - _ Q _ Th_;1t'a right} . _
. - "" A }J211p rather small. - -.'
'- . _ ____ I. l . . . -_|A - -_
._ _ I192_- 1 ll _ . . '=.-s - _ ~ , "' .~ . 1. 4 - ,
' . L'IMITBD_0PPIOIAL uss -
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' ..q :_:In 5-om» hual:and_l_1nr¢_§ mi, B§8._§1YOf.1
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.
92.
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._;_C. .~¢.!' .;;92.
4 O I
, p ~ nmzmn omtcxnn uss J56 .
. i _ . 4
-5@" f' A H Well; oonoidorub;y1argop tnoh M. Dérion j
* §j§"§ _ yngt also nos bgepi thot you Qflkigf 51_;K;_
-1--,~1l?*-J 1 uouldt i'ay:ui ..;o¢.;m1.92¢ 'ooi'-1mii1;.--ii"""- L
was Juoi ohd fqyg §ha_I ggklop§1oapQ1oo_ltoh1a;tiaiigi» f ~-
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w92.-- . - A_ - Q ' mm what 'd;a yooj noa oboqh 92;1n'_r¢oem-oi!" JA .
92_ >I}¢¥g*j_4.wat do §ouVpQ§npdo_you woo ma to dbo5§iE8'_ f
1mom1_l*-:=; " -
- . , - - .- -| _ . ~ _. _.| - ; > I - . . _ . . , _ ._ _ F '_ 7 _ . _ 92 . . - ' . J Q
'* _" q Hm. whoa was thirc extraordinary about hli t ;
featurel; if anything? - - ,' F
" 'foi{A There 1n.noh1n3 0xtraord1ary.about sham, "- '
J92.inb_8!v1'4"§vV!_t'o_1-aAr_:o 1oox<1n;;.mo 1o .;,, estimation. ; » o 4"
" :o 11.51: on Qéoraga looking ion; to ilaig
photograph that nan shown you, Mrs. Elwyn, what lor of K
photograph wan_1t, was it o full body photograph? ;
_ i§Q A Ho, air. Flt was §he featuroo indicatin _
fvvm v ohv=11'~m!» Win taken mm. -- * ~..- I5 1
1- - mm cmxm-mm up to tho cheat?
.<' A : Yes, up to thi chllt. - _ _'~
om:-zsnono BY ma. mum: '
. ~ p Q _Up to_tho cheat? p
. Knot: right, up to the cheat» _»
iii} p» Q It was the photograph of a mnn'I haad1_ _
. V L _- _ : - ; -. ; .
" -Q~u S» bherb would bi nothing in that phobogfnp§T:__
=- - > " = . . . . - -. - -* '-" , -. _ - ." ~ _ - " .- 92;- ~11 1, __ ;- .;- _ - _. I 5
. '- _ '- -o~;
I, ' Ismrrxzo omclnn USE
~
" 92_
<. @ _ _ nrnmfm orncm. usn _ _ 15?
f . I | I _..- .._ - . .1 _ _ . .
'_ 1 _ _d there, to 1_nd_1oahu pnothor he momma rial lat -1
_ - _ .. .. '-1.-. ' '- . -, _,_ ;'.:_- > -,. : it D H ?_::"___l'- -._» or_not1:_lrg9,'92w_-.116 there? ' Z I _1 r P - _1__
. ' A no. I was going by the tutu:-on or Mai tiué. . - - > L
-'~»~ -aa~bol§t- ovum*reoaIk'Mm2*_°" T *'-Q " ' ' * " '
- , ~._ '_ ' .
' ~' ;f.' 1Q Hlzioti fatnrol you have now élsobod
' " ' < ,..- - I '- - . - -. .1.
a92_rérI60!. " ' '1: -i la
. TA I_.be11ovo they us; . ' - g
~ q Th-ab in an. . ~ 1 -' -I
.°_.»I.PBs: no you lmon-a/§f§%¥a.rd?__ ' ' "' MR;
Yen, 1 baueve think wan--thodonly emu t 3336
h1m_wao___uhon_ ho mm brought into the ap_a_z-tmn. bytno FBI
t, R . A - - . -
- and he has introduced to mo u Mr. Piotcaz-4. o ' , ' .r
"_ .1 ' .' ._
O - -A 'mEC1L'92Im~1AN¢ Youmay be excund. Thank yoii -_ _.
'92' 1.} /to : » '-, . ' -- very mugih tor boning down. , - _ ' _ ' _
' . l . _ L _o ' _ ;[w1_tnaaonaa
THE CII!'.IRMAN| no :11; ommlné thonoxt vttnédiié
_ W -~W-~====-* : "1 V *1»-
! . :_- NR. . an. __ A
called IB a witanocia in behalf of the Board, having been
~_" . 1- duly morn, te.=:1:1£1od an renown ~ -
" 5' snons BY Tm: crmxmouu
-' : 1 i '. I ~' " ' _ ~~5:-~ ' ., _ I _
* * -; .Q_ _ Igr. Elwyn, no are hopeful that you I111 iii d
R _ » nttnudq light; on {mo matter that wohavi under interrogation
=~- 92~. - ' I . 1- - ' - -
it!A. . A - 1 _. ~, unrrrzo omvzcm. usx -, 92 ..._ .; 92. 1 'r,_ - ._ _ |'_,._.-_ .-L, . '__='<-~ _ |,__;,,_.___; ,_~,_;- ;."_:_' '-1.1-: '- 4..;!~ -1_-_- -~,' -51 ~-11;-»4¢z~ ' '' " "'*%" '~ -~~92_»~ " "'-* ~Y:iGA|~~-rj.¢.L---L.492_92.
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_.._~,k' ' ' *__-_1_..;' _' -.;_.¢_-g;-;: -'--_ LL .-'___- -4-K-1--1 - I-1 _'v1-54'» <'~---1- zt " in-I i-¢_"_I4- .1 ' "
.
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4-
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. - _4 $_-§ - 4
15
_ . 1.nnmo~.»1=mcm1. us: " - . i . 158. 1
-the prooom-. 11.".m0. _ Bo uoulo who've haw you abort o 3
it you 1:111, in a rot:hor.or1o_£ any and toll on the hot "-
. -- ' '_". _ . I, -.- - __ . .. - 4 r
-aqua, Bhr: cm-ownatlnooo ma my romeo {tool 3&1 .
into:-oat that h-"we a boa:-1nz"on whether or not you Elli?! - _ ,
this gooolemanocrooa from you hero, iudiatng Mr. Daiori!
-' I A I have lQQ92'l'hlI0.j'=." _- -- - - * ' ~ - . ' - - .-: 111., - , , . _-' . . I ' I - . _ - - -- _» u -"1-~ Q - ---when you uni h1m,.v|h'oro no vlu_n_hoo you f-' -92 _ . - , _ .
can him, the oouditztons undir which you can him, and hurl __ _ _ o _;,.3__..
thing onus you umm 1o of 1r'|toreo1:"tothia Board. nun;
rst, uould you gtvoyour nan-no uno whéiio ion:-e ouployoa _
for tho roord, p1eaa0?_ . '_ " H - -' -
- j - A Floyd to om moo mo, nny_o'.§no'1Am
Q A1121 your omploymont, whore you are employéd '
now, by whom? > _ - -
- I A By the 65 Morton -Btroot Realti corponno. - .
. _ ;_ _q How long-have you boon employed at this i»a=~*-
tioular address: ' - _ ' .
. IE: ':ow A r U011, if I tlnzjoo much u1.at_:akon,' it'd
19th do!: of Fobruary 1926,_.. _ ' ' -
o 'J.imt you have been Gmployed on hto waxed-
lar add:-eon? I ' . -
A I-19 1 1-_--
i' _ __ Q _Hr_~.ve you been oontinuouoly imployod tho:-a_ _ A
einoo mm _',_ - T. - . - '__
" ' 1.11-xmzn contour. usz: -i u '
. . - . . " 2. ' *.' ':~ F ~"-"."." -,4-___-__-__,_,__.~_-._: ...-...-.-- -1-._._~.1_....|_.....-.L...|. ..>~..._.L_3- -~-v.4 ,1 4 7_~ - » ~ v-~j|-.n.4¢ -I-LA-1 ~- -~ -J_;..|--~ '92 * --~' ~~- ~ 4u _.
.mm-ran 11=1==:cm. usn - ' - 155--
;_,.. A YQJ. .- F - ' = - '
_ . I , . - '
.._ »;_*.J»m'. HAND: mart h_u been no _8'¢:t1m0ny,»Rr. O 13$- - . , - _ _ ' _ 2 - _-. - - - ._ .__ _ I | - . -
sun be 10 =.-mpxuyua is um q.aai-amp.-$216 h'..~»m. l »
Gmp1DY§Q..hQ rm!/1, by kho orpqrabion. - ' _ _ ,5
___ ______.. __-.-~- - - - '
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. IQUIZBTIQNS BY 'mP. czmmmnaz ._ ' :1: k _ __
. ;_¬,QhQH You have bein edloyed by bid 6§JM§rop B§5§§
~. - . _-_:
-I _ _ A I was on th0_Mortou Street lids. Row I am , ;_§
at the Barrow _:?.{:1~oe1: aide. I have bendhifjild Juit nbréii
the aodrt» ' . " '
1 Q -_Pez'hapB ma boat; thing, '12 you nut! théri
is to give ma thn facts}-o1ah1.ng to your Icnowlédgq of ' _
Mr. Dayton, when, where, and under what qtrnxmsbanbea 'you_
have known hi-=1 in the past. ' . ' -
J ._ 4; The gum», poaitho dates, I adnnot give; _
1_t was trying to think this 'ovl§ .f_h*at. It ll -_loia_en¢._!z;:.*a§
bots-mun. "W and I50, aomewho:-Q botwoen Wk "43
_It'a_aomwhe'rn_ in there that this man or n. twin brothai $6 *
I . . ,. I I 92 _
lam, the tame-ysuylmgw what '1 bean, sad, Iibii ouidybé §'dEi1
_a hing hup'pqn@d--but aomeuharo there I law him in am B5
-ioron Btroet;eni;rancs 01 the building on 65!-lorton Ht:-iii;A u mat was tha cu11jorat:ion'u mm. -"mat layhab tho 00$ rd-.
. ¢ _t1i_:n~ to han92e;d_:'-.1't_:uv, yqu know, 65_ Mbpton 8t_I'0et¢ y I saw
than grid _am not poaitlvu, I_ can't lay, that I aQ6"ri'...;.¢__q M L lb _ . . . _ .A . '. - u- ' .| , . .- _ _ . > _ . . -. _ _~ |_ . .. _ , _
' ; . jz.1-mzwrzn orzwm. van .
I - _ . .
l
> 92 - > - -"4". - -' - ' .> --- ..-- ' >' .=;;=_;__----__4..;.:,-_- ._;.,~- A=.¢. .._|_- -LL;-92.4.-.x-»+._n-.=_.__!__z ~ --u-.-Jan- +- "r -~ v~I~ .....nn.' .
I
_- LIMITED - snicxax. usu .. 16b -
.° ., .
1 gm mail out oi the b<_>a.'_ gut is 15 um: 61', in my - H
ea §ha_I d;q,_but yet 1 uouldnf swear o bhih, god_. jg»
, - . _92_,j_'-?.A_nd mm 1 aau_ mm" on_thc_i¬1§qat.._".j:_~_..- --
. * ;,JhW'.Q U011, what abuut-- - I: _ ' 1 R 1
' . " _- . IM»-L ~~;~; _ » - "~192v-- I'uaw h1m"0n"§h§"1'i1'1L§f;'0ii um". :92{6i{i£ ' -
.. say nhn§_1and1ng it was,_wq0¬hor it was the lrd or §Bd &
. - _ - 92 ---. . . ~.-~.-'1-.
. Mortgn_§hrGot and I nan him bn Barrow street. A 1 ' -'Evq mun _ . . j ' E
. ' _ .} A- And I u1so_iaw him, Latin get; at 50-n{i§_ _
h the Emrl Gfocory Star! 18 the name of it. I nan hti ii
. cm:-a.=;. - = .-@ ' " rm. v._m-an} smut: HlI_¬l';&1:,>bl1ebKl19.t_8'1dO!'0§§1é .
A Stori A - .» A ' - .; lq
_ _ I A »Tnd gmerald Grocery Store. nut whak dabéi A
r .- th8Q8 Ire, you know how you.Qan people and 1_qan't gtvo Qél. . >- --92 - -.1,
. mm. 1 1:h1n!:2.§;'ali52_!{udnon Street. ' _
-_ . '- H THE ¢UAIRNANt' Ia that the grocery-lbbro? ~ ': E
. _~ 3 A -1 think that in the number. I§'l ih nmééid J
.- 0rocery*'Btor-e. nndonen the next I can him nan aver is I "
, the airport, the uowark Airport. And than the next timé
' I .' . -_a
_,- I nan him he Uta on the oornar of Morton Bbroat-and Huduq_ 1Inét_u1th L1tt1eJohq, and I dun't reodll the partners
_ 92 > ' .- .1 _. .
.s fnmml. . s j'~ - -.- .Q, '# ' - ' .
I _ _ 1- A I» . .. tr
Q1; ~ . "rm-mmo orncm. usn .- _.
H .X 1 I' rm-uh um-, ilumothing um unav. And anon i saw u1i1_a"5- "
177' ' * ---' . ,1-3;,-.~__. 1 **zY;rn'.z! -1rz! ~1m_
_ _ ,.. < .--.,*~ _ _-»@...-- -1- -14 .-=92-_-;-_.-I. < 1-~ "-| _I I ,|-~ .;,§., !,_--;-_-- Ar ' ~- .4 7 "*- i;_Qj _L,§.g *1_-_-J"_ K-l_---" - ].§.Il'-f.|~"l-Al--1-'4-,-.:=92A-1'-'-
Q 1
. , .
..~ _v_ 1
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I Fl '
~0
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: f. '
F .
v.._-A_. -,. 9 . '. |. . ,
LIMITED co-FFIOIAL use _ 161»
-_ ,_ t {qr-
. t~' -, 1'H1I0';'{92tm-mil; I.ittlo_1onn?' -
- - . .- I _ . . ~ .' ,.-
I _}fH. MR. HAND: Thin il lp RBI agent7<A _' , ';i.'
__ I Q Ulzaddiltg hii htdl l _ * _T .:-Iv
v ' _.
. EEJouni§§@§}__,_§1!¥Q»_whgn 1ou_aau,Hr»¢bayt6o92 _ t
on thoao Yriuna oooaaiono, aside from tho timo that you '
said you oau pin at Horton and Hudson Btrooto, was no in ;. - ~--- ' -' : _ - . 92. 1!:
the domplny of unyono @150 ortulo he with ihyohioolou 6536 M
» . - . .
you_rlo&ll? ' A .. o '
. _- A lwhoo, I oouio not oay. "You know how piol -'
in the hallway go. .Hhothor no was uith tuqbody or hot; §3
know, that I couldnjt say} _But I think thot ho nan. iutj
of oourooi I con't I¥|_YOu know. -' 7ii _
. EHE CHAIRMAN: Hhlt ooonaion havo you to romomoor
him specifically no against hundreds or other pooplo that
you might havo_ooen duiing thdt poriod?. Y ' =
" _ .A _.wo11,fI can rémombor a lot of than thht uééd
to go up in thorn. I can romembor a lot of people uho4us3u
to go up in thoro. * - ' '
A rm. mm» In whore: * '
1 . 1
A In the house, in the building. '!ou sea, when
I sou somebody, I kind of look thom'over because, you know
how things happen onoo in a while in those largo houses,
Iiino for that roooon you pay_o little bit hood attentioné¥ '
n man whoa uou poo Kim than you would to him out on_tho_-1- _, _ _¢.-' -'_~<.' ' .' 4 '
BtIUQto " -
_ - LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5'§
re.3
'1'
IL
,.___i__-» ;92- _ . ,__._. - - ,. _.92, _»._ 1-.-~ -_';,"__ _ _! -- -' -'» _¢;.-..-_¢=....-4_.v._.¢.-..-.1»-.A-.x--1-K.-.-._~p i »~,;L...4»- r -me v -r 'r 1 4i.-Adr I F I ~'~ gai-4--L-§A>¢--».@.
e _&-_'>
_ ' LIMITED UPFICIAL USE - 162*1!} _:' _ Tl > __ _ » - ' -cur
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|_é:o,_92.. i I
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:1 I. , -$511035 !_5Y_.'l_'11;_-..t21!AlIRM.A_N|,- _ .-._§f_.
' ' ' Q Y1: their-e nnyihjng atiout h'1a aog:1o r':|_ arid
. u ';;Q:¢;1i_ ;'92;gt:';1|c.~r.~t:' §:l1a'§ 6au;:od"you_to péial-1:,1¥|92 .ar1';r!'i|§vé1_i§92;=-.7
. _ . 92_ , . .."_<' .=
hm. I-1-J Blwv? ~ ' ' . " __* _':.§';;_ 3- A
f-4 _»T¢§ ~--.-~¢~-- ~,- -~-:**~ r-t" " >- ;_=_.-fa
- __ .;""A- '1-Io, 1 am: chad h1lI_up, chap and :11. -_'maA __ ~ u . _ _ _ . - _ . .
ih"ht 91:116.! gag-:fh1i:'a thoix-a',_ yen; linen, I lilo!
_¢ :;i:§.1§1~t u yor §§§1mte or I_b_m"yo92i *
he Ian I ptrivn thab~-" ~ ' " 1§' ' _ .
. ii--A _ Mi>; I-didn't; g - -
I -- 1 " .1.[I -Q i----Jyotu hadjouo 'quéat1_on abgu " -_ _-Y_~
1 . -0- _ -- ' ' > | * -'-_ ._.. __.A kiizn ggqec; nu; up and loolzqraobhiu ovuf;
waé elnd o1- in 3'1 awn"; |'1véno ro:'zaz>v:r:_n' £6 '
or-anything. E didn't Iihtnl;--well, you lcncjw. " _ 4' .
q .'}.'h¬:n ycu éaw_h_1.m in the groqazs-7' above, _did_
».you'o'_b__aervc hip: buying any particular foods? ' ' _
;_ _A= .i1§o,' I5 92l!.¢§I!I P§¥'any att:en1:lou'_to $1.51. ;__j; 3 _
Just paid no ai;1:L~.nt1o:_1 any more. Maybe Lupolee aud'm1i§ba. -, '
-I didn't, ydukn5w,_ A H f §§§* .<. 3. A '
_ , Q mmt: about this other nzraat--Barrow Stréet
. ; _ , -
wge the" pthér tuddraf _ A
' I @ -- ; A; -Ho, w1_1a1.-a I aawhtm nae on Morton and iludaon
'3traet% £1 Jay-have'apokn Barrow in theré. _ 1'% .
as K_ _ 92.; i _Q' i ,_-I._.1;hou_1;h'_a you aaidjomethlhg nboL92bfb.v1ng"ifaén - - - 92 . 0|--I . - ' A h1u a_1q_oi on F:1"xj92>>u gt;-bat. Duyqu peoallnatng h1m_br'a_
* - - . , . .." - , l 4 ¢_92' - '- . '. -. ~ ' '-_ ' - LIM1'1ED ovnotan vs1z-.thin Othbr ltvcut? ; T ' j. 3 .' H~*~ ' ' : ' '. "'"
1 A t , .
,h .-_
i .
, __ _- . z92'92. ~ _.- - 9..-_-_ .»-3""__"__luL%::f..¢l.A_92'.44->ln"'l-_ <"~_ xL,-_;._g_.z!L1' 4-- 4 ~ A '_;_ 7 > in-r ' ~1 l - ~ > = '§&-"-'53: ~l4'92-92-Q-15'" ' *5-'7": ~1 ='92 1.11.r"h@-A"',_b' !_~__"_
- LIMITED UFFICIAL usn A '_163lib ,§_ _ l J - -'": I
~ ;fAA On Barrow Btrniti ' t ~
_ _- _ _ .| _.. 4 . »1.* _' :?3:§*%¥os."' -$ f-%*Z&h"3 j»'- ;5'11]*?.~¢I~ 1'§_"
L 4-*:Y?;'Aw @nu; :aon~u'r§¢u1; ¢e¢1n3 nth vha%i;">z*"i "'
-['h "WmN$"¥1 @WL?@!@!A@¢mmm@unMk_h
- ~ - -" But Just thou; other oouplu at times like that I noitoéd _
7.,
.. -' :.'- ,== ! 1. - -_ .- , .-. * .. 3'. . . -, __ _- A .,' . __ . . _, . . _ _ V ,.. Q - - ,.*. . 92 _ _ - _ - _ A-. - ;-' l' J 1 Q _
H h _ j;f=q_ Zhh ydh regal! rpughly the d;tlJwh§h §6d_|i§ h§;'
' him It _§_h0 a1.vp:u*t?. ~. - ~ . ' _' _.
31 = '_:._~q' 5You dbn't know whether chit IIB in '¥fj 5§5
_:1_ Q" r'n9 qr I50, oi evan_1atQr? . ' --KL. b _ n"?;a@
~t;_;A 7~ '1-%7='A"~[suan}h§ his he§h]~ oh, 1nnd{ §his'ii?i$éL1§ C! ~ hNo, I 6ou1dn't nay. bu I think it-wasn't tn the '¥O'l§ i
- don't think it nah in he 'ho'a. _ ' ~ A 4 "
4 - _ _
] ¥' "l Q .AYou think it val later than that? ;
vJ.~§l _7A- ;: £hihu 1: haq,,nuu I wou1aq~g qa9§hhup36dT"; II. . 92
I
. 'hnnh§ vu=drua'uu that, un1=n u111 be gtvln and tb 4:53 %
» hon thit, I iuppgne h baa, you know. ;- .Y.T
.. _ .._. 3 ., . _ A
*1 5, Q? W011, when you can him on thl landing, yb,
' aair you don'=t'_ro:;o.11 wl11_oh'1nnMng it mas, the thin! 01'. - 92.
, k fourthfi ;1_-4 ' - A V A » - >
1 7 -'
' - ~ h . Mn ha coming up or going down, do you re 111 ' E No, Izlpanaod him. l ' ~ -
,_.|,_ -.; _. ._'.
A . I thinl he wan coming down. __,
'-I:- 1 v- 4-. Q ' . _
. >1 ~@.;_< ' 1 5. am» w=¢»m *
-. I -' __ 92 ' - . . 5-
;__| _. I _ .
¢ o .1 - .._-_i.u.a.-1....-.-, -4 _~_..u-.,..=--|,._,.:.;.~;.._-._~-_-_...i~- , u ~4 ~ ~ -~ '
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LIMITED QFFIOIAL usa . 164':> -1' - ' -»" -= = 1 =.HD1'.I_ha havo ln7tmin'g;.i|1th
. -s;@;§{AfF n? m1;h:1biv§ h;af¢2s.1;¢°;.;?¢¢ iépécnidg" 5" 1-1.. -,,',, .~, .. -. .1 -.r..= -. ¢. . ~ .. - .. . .. -i - '_
uodi;oton¢, I ¢i¢§{¢'§;§5£8 -5:-"£1981?'i'i»&i&§92§'8}???. _| _ , _. ' , 4 .__, H _ . -. 1 - .
7 ¥¬nYQ'~ Haw wa§"bo dressed, tor tho nt§o6§7"§?v@ §éI92=_ _ _ - _ __ _.____'___ . -__ - -- -- - - '*' "'--" _* .4 ___ __ ___1__,_,._4___ _--- -- 92 - . .
_ __ _ _ _._ -.,__ ._ _. _ ___ "'» _ _ -_ _».
l 1ook;%ood ¢nnc.1=[=11;1=a1a;;ri5 i- _~;£;#@;w@:;¢%¢g§5g@;
.. , 4._ _ ., _ - , _ . ,_ _ -. . - - ~_ . _ 1 .| . ,_| n _ .. _, - a . I . - » 92 - 92- - - - - , 0M 1if;§ bid yq 5p¢=k_co lm? _ T 'i§ Q _"7:_2 "
- » -. .14 That I oou1dp't any, »u@=nqr¢1?¢¢1q_nq11o g ;-
Q" ihoydy do you'kuow.Qou Qoooruily opeak ¬o;poopil.53.*""'
L i. _;'T5 Q " wgrg you our;oup obout whore no woo going 4 _f
A--whore he had ¢-?mJ_ £:I °i1:9'-' 3," :1 I - ="i-;'"-"* ; .<':_ "
. - _ _ -
, ' - A Ho, I aan't, booouaa there wore oeveral poaiii
. ' .~ ._|¢ ~
1 _ , . _ . .
, ._or ééukkb x had in ;¢.;.-@;=ip¢;@1¢¢ coizi] you éoo ih§§?5,
_. _.l_ I ' I .1_ A , .., 4 - . >1- - - .' ' . . _ - ~. - q . _- . , . l . _ 1 I'.QunsT1ous BY nn. sxrzsa ' -:~. - - .=. . .'7<%. . 1 ~ . - . . _-. _ _ I 1 A I _ ' . _- A 1 . Z ,. . I .. I . - - . . _~. .: u .' . ' -Q . pid you recognize Hr. Dayton_Ihon you oam3 *
; into tho room Just now, Mifiklwyni -'1 _ ~ ; u92 -
' '1 . ' 1A f Coftainly I'rh6ogn1:ed bio.
H N A ..;Q 2 Do yougnow a Gary Piokardv ' !_~
{ §§l:= * §A_l Who? V - ta _ o - Q
- . <. - 92-; . ,_. P; |Q _Gnry_P;okard, do you know_h1n?..'_ ;;§-1»* ' 4 1 . . "
. _ - 92 . - . -_ . - ,; -_ . -!. 3, o. [Kb reoponao],.. , l . -_-i *'ft§5
_ .l.."_@._ *7 LIMITED orFio1AL uss:'§
; '_ .- I - I
. - 1 ._ P _ . . _ - - _..-- _ . . . ._ . . --..... . . .-....-...4;.-'__.
, -
-: *$¥A §AYcs, he had h1¢'5¢.@ on. wnedvor %¢i¢@;1i1.@a=,
I H ..__ I -__-_ _. .' _ . '_ ; '_, _- I .. D _. - '- ,-'11, T_ ._ 3,, 7-_ _.._,._g,_~.'_ "'§:_._,i:;;-,l..'-l v _uaa_,_I_.4_:dn't.pay no ottontgou.-to it any pa;-6.§han_ Z II .5 -. u::92. . . ' ; -_~_-J~ - . p 92 - , ,5-'!.':"_. .. <"~" .. -. -1. :A~_:;" Yr
-.1|
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.wpo went upstairs qpero to inn apartments, ooverol pooplo
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<1-"1 noan hoth1p5 topa9k:1§.up;§-;' -3;f%= _. §q__*f~ ,'§
I--....:_-'5 -' nu»_'¢_:~-.4-.1 .;;r|- L._> -1 _-92.-~4,~,-..-.'...l---'-c4_~- 1-» i 1 ~* 'Ir "L
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_:.-, §",'-- | I '.-!;' ~ ~ ~"r~92. . IF]..~92_492 f'¥ V.
'1 92q _ - LIMITED OFFICIAL usz' 3 16§''1 , . .
.-_..;¢ - --w4'~-H';- ..__ ._ - . _ .
" " --; . . "--§- :~_uou_s nz Tm-: CliAIRMAN1;. ~ a ~ 1
;§&*»¢;v~».~".; - ,_s*:r;H?r:<1;:; 3-¢ar".;?L?'i¢?~.="£' - ;§m§q- D0 you knpu_aTaont1eman bp'ubo;namb;o£¥'i;
; o3# "A -F ; *F;rZ#"" ~ "~ii;-w AT3Y*?-**- :;Oar7-Piokazuw *'.¢.j_. =?j'§ fH;qA' 1 v- I ;~I-. '.'~m:92v- - . '" - ' -'» 92- i92:w<?i:=' -f;.§*h Th: name oooho§§a@}}gog_bqt_I_oquidnfj-shy}*
i! ' §T-P<§§q"- $o.you know a Mr. Purl, Mr. Hiliiom Yoli ?§}=" - I .. .> -I ,. - '- - "L ._-,~ 5'!-' 0 :-, Z" v. - 1 -- . - 92 vi-*-. . -- '1" , ' P " " - . ' , ' h . .~, , .» .=r. ; | - - : ..v*- - .- - - >'9292 . ' - , -- I H ". '.- -,:- .- , _ ~ . " . '- -. '»_v~ rt. I . u_- IQ L,» - -'._-': _ - u ;__" . . , Z By YQQ "E73 h-' I-_' ' - 5. 3-I, ,2? I-:11 fgs .- J5-5 §_ ""':§-'-.'f _!:;- '-, .-'~_ -Q - '- .f .- '~__.e_ , ,., , " - ' ' qua, UP 92 "4? - -'-¢ - ' - ~» ' w .~.~;.' 9| :-- a *'.-"-' -= <'-i . ;.::-. --F .-~* ' H-v r. . ;I:'. -1. .-:'d,.,-'!.>"..-»- ,':--- " ,:.u _92_ 4 92 I
.'. __- __-|_|»._--.--~ I __~;" ' J; -;'_ ~"," 2: - ;.Q =-You know h1m7.~,@_;.;- - ;;;1== ',j;=.<@,§»@_- __ _ _ . __ =. .. 7 . _' .j,,:4_i'. ;,__--_- _ ' .. _-92__-H ' 1 __¢..'...92
1-
I92-
» . . . ,.. . ' av
5» v .A Yea, but.I mean by night; -i_oan Mri_Rqri oh! §'
a1uo_I-ua11q¢'n1m Mp. rorlmao bobauao he r66e1vou moi}; ¢§;5
_ _wh;oh-I,§hpw,~1y both na@e|.§§I9f course this to aohoihihéj;
2 "I Iv. me i;_n_app¢n@a w be therehhonwthe mamaln ho outihi
the ma§L to the boxes and he naked wharo tho ndmea yéié; TY"
_you know what I moan,_ahd I know him batot by the oamo bf
|_ . . . _ '1.
Perlman because we paed to put everything tn the box. ,Yo ,
. _,-1-;'. |' hi" '. i. ll ' " ":» 92
j_ _kno whoh i mean, aohoiot tho ha%i home :§§iA§¢_&5a§§i3 1.
1 <"Fet1man..'_U. ' -~ M;~ L §{~' Hi@7l?'I;?"$%?&=-. .» _ ;._ .»._92~: _ . .0» -->~
1 - - 92 7 .,o f;,q {Did Mr. Daytoo over get any ma11'Qdqpeaaad to
T that house?' . - A -- ' .'..._v_ ' '- . .. 92 ' ~ 92- '
__ 5 .,A ;Tbero hero several people got-h1i.;:*. _.. I _ . 92» .~ =~. | - _ - , ~.'.'- - -- .- . n '. .- _'- » .'
. .2! . . . - ;--'-
.Do you remember_Mr. F1noaton09 §§}"Q~h. 92 . .
< _.1 _A §Ein2stone5'I remambor him. I remember the ,,
' , 3 . ' . . ' _.-. I .. _ : ..~ . _ -,f-
' 1Qu you.remempar Mr; 8aranti;1kjg;;Z i § :i~fH 4 . ... - .. - . I - - .' _' ~92~='._ - _..'92 -. _
- - .>,,ve=-.¢¢- .'*;: -gf f;é;*~.
_ ' ' 1'. = _ '. .1 . ' - , ' _ . -
._ _ . D -__.-l_1-_- . . -~'. .'i _ i I _ , -
.- 1.mm-1:0 orvxcm us: 4 -" 'U -. _,_ I l._ 92 D .<'>- ' 4 : - k __ _ _ ~|$' ._.r I
l
92f
_ -__ 3' |'--:- . -.2. W ; _ 92 .:_. ~_ -.,- ,-2 as :_ J; .._ jigs... :2 I. < I__i:_ "PIE... >1.-Flt! an |4
¢
1:5
--3,-~,=,¢,_;.,_;4,;_» 4--;-*,_¢~-4,:4-2-4 -1- ---'-%_-III J-u.-Lia-r"» Z ' -
'1' < _ 92
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|A~ <-92 . .Y~_ 1L -- .-
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'-» . 0 '-P --_.92l' ~92'-~ -" . - , _ _.-, . _ "__,..< ,v.
-qr Ink 9? tbo&_thét in bavg baqn-ta1k1n3 ab¢P'I.";~B§;§i,f1@__v_' I
_ I :-
¢ LIHI'1'ED'uF'FIOIAL uss_ - 168 ~
n - "» -
D9 yap know him bqibonallvf QQ}. + 3 ,
A ' _ _ . 9- 0 ".'j-.____~;.-'_- _ ___ _ ~._.- ~_. J :.-,":.
U 4 1 . .
>é?~". » *~ -' if *R?jT" ' ~» .i755i5¥4-Q You havl I000 him! ' ' . » .,_... Q. -
.'- ; '92'." '1~ Q31 . ' I. '- :: I"~1'5-1' .3. _ ' .. -' .1?-.1-"'_. m - -=_.'-' . ~ Q I" -P Q
0 ' * ~ - . L ' . ;y¢,_ I _ -%92| . _ _ ___ ;__V___ * _ _> _ _ _,_ _ .' .-._-- -_ * " .'_" _ _ I . ._______ __-._ - . _. 4
Do you know where iheae gentleman llvui-Qili 5=*
.C
|92.4H - .~ _ . -, ' . -'.- »w - .- ' ~- _ . : _ .i' -92 0* - - .: . - . - -.- -: - 1 _ .- - - 4-'-5 1---I; .
Mr..I1nbatonq, Mr. ?eg1,'Mr._Par1man, Hr. Dabtbl-d615d'YPIH» ; . __ .__..- - ' -,-- I» , I-_..A --1 '- - ' ' - . . ' - .r _'-_ . -. A . , . ' 92 .¢-
know wbaro thay lived when they were at this addquaai ',
1 _ Y,§nn, RAHDr_-Mr Cpairman, tneru_paa been no :asu;§A;
1- ,. , 'r ~mun! ha they lived at thin iddieas. T @7I%'5 Z1 Z-uiff"
' .- 1f{f'A' They uacd to 3o_ln}, O! uqurae-§pnxdon'mn; i I-_
am @ué=di3§ my c§ory¢1';. sdrinl had Ap;§¥;qnt 6+i §§'§§ i
Horhdn ltruet. And Mr-?er1man or Perl, whichever hip name
was, or oaurau he got mail there too, at least I think hQ_J
did;-Qomnbody d1d,_anyhqwQ 1§'b§ name of Pbrilnnd-§0fim§§§ f
'0£_6oixi'no I__ea11ec 10 ,9»-1ma_n-_.g-.1 tmougm gaybg _mpbd¢i = 2
'61dn§8.b§irth§f"man '§n 6? l0m;§h1ng. But inybo, h0§o§' ug_ 1 . ' ' .
mil la 6~I.3 They used id 30 uh there. Bi whether *
u1¢y"n§pa amm <>£n<>z, 1 do not know} mi. Sarun ma iha
apagtmonb., § . . .' . ' ' = -" ._ '-
Quaswzoua BY '1-ms. clmxmwn " - .-..- A
§g;s; 1- Q Did you aver see Mr, Dayton go into that
!npartmani» _ _ .__~_.~ __ G
No.n1r-"' -.. , __ _ A>- _ ," .~ .: 1 ' . _. .H -<_ 92- . - .*- "
1 _ LIMITED o_npzoxAL vano. I-'..
I
I ' ..
. _ 4 _ _-_ . 3- .-A ¢'...'1?" i--- <0 .~-_-'_.»'-A _1;;;A-HIIAQQQ-7..-on_|-_4_'..4n;'-ll_~4'_¢-0-_~I; ._o..- ~:~',;4~»'-+ ~=1.1~*-» ~ ~<~-~- % 5 l_|r '*Jd- A'-I 1:-A-' "* |._'! *7 fir-*'92l~' fInJ:_92 l.n0- r . n- <_ 0~ 0
. .
1' . LIMIT$n OFFICIAL USE, ¥géi.;_j I-*;i§1"
nl
$5 . _ x¥5Qh Ur coma out of thgt Qpnr$m¢nIYi§;_§j p,-;*-~_"~,; -I . ;~' ~ 92 - '~4~---r;~'.':' =r-i';--.- - . ¢§.s='g'*{.-i . - ';,'=- 2_,-.- - '---~12 I . ' '1: -. - ,- -. 1 ,;,. - . s -." '_ .¬_. _
" 4 I '1' |._--. - ' 7- . H _ I-1. ._|,§.~._-In zur ..'-> ' .2-H . 1.;---. _.i-"1:-__ "M 9"" ?*%9-99%.. ;- .:- FY52 " -:~:
' "1 . ¬ll D111 you'ovor'noo,7Hr.A Daytoninftho oomf>ini8§ D.
I - -I-_."..' - 1 . ;- _;"' . I _ ' A}-I J! _
" 1 _ _ fill, P_¢!'_1.-O! J/In. 11:61-lman? --_, -- -.-.~ *~ - _~j-_- *.- '--';_ -,-_" f-.;: . ,--1-' _ ; - ~ __ _. > 2- . __.5_ . __.1_ _ '
Y l, uoulontfi
or behind §;'
;_->. , -. -=.-~'-:_f ._:_ 2.-';;'E",{';1.,§ -. ;>_..1___,-,..¢ " say anihava them oomoout and lay yon. ..> 1 _ .' "- x=' " '- ' g-. ' .:_ 3 A 0 ' .-"- - ' , - - ' 4_1= . HR. ml-I-in Hr.-B1nyn,'d1d you ovorfapo hr. Poriniih'-.92 , '-"32. Y 217'» 'Q. ' - . ahead -"o£;_'h1n
. - ' - .' -. . -' - 1_ . n -- ' _. -- '_ ' ,=¢.-|- . . ,. . |- ahead .o£.h1m, not whero liq have button?-. 5 I .<! -. _ T. _ I __ -IHI D _- _ ll . _ ' L3. I ;-- ._ _ _ v _ . _ I _ > ~ " ', _" _. . . . IA I . .92 - - I_- '1 . » ' , ~ , §J '1 ' _ o I , I I I o J? _:_»".: Q7,
_. ' - "|._92_ 92 ' H _-| _.r_I' ' ' J ~ - r2 I f
_ _ _. __. _ l r | 3 5U 1 -.._ . _ --H-'..:: Z": .~_ I ' . ._. ',> _.'....A " '., _ _ 4 }92. ~ ; ,_1.;}¥?"*. _ Qvaswxous BY wnu CHAIRMAN: ?¬ l.v< ~.~=r;-- - o - ~" 1
r Q Did you ever see them in the oompnny of each '-
hother--Mr. Dayton, Mr. Sax-ant, Mr.-Finoatona, and Porlmnni
"- ,}u. ofnu no; "1 saw aovorn}'poop1o_togothorlbut ;]5;;;%,
_ l A -31 D-tba.y.;wa_re in oompan; .p,th"pnofanokhorolii-~;,i:A__ '2 "
. I H .- , ,3 ,.._-__ _~ I ~ -d-_. . - - --
. ' -' Q You nave never neon this gentleman in tho" _
fj company or any ono or =11 or tbole individuals? ' -. § a
I . . 1.. - . .
> "'A No, not to what I could any, you understand.
0 _
. QUESTIONS B! nu; sIPESa -" . ~ 92i 1
. I ' _ -Q rs I understood your testimony, when you t1i~§£
-i§rtad your testimony you plaooo thin somewhere botméfi!92-.
~
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_: __> A. __ __ I ~_ I I -> 92 _..92 _,-' .' ' , _ n .->-~_ '1 b-_.:.@=..¢..4..»___._; - 4:1.--V--_=;....-.../~--_-.-V -H; 7- 4 ------1 ~ - ~ + ~-'1-|n¢mAnn.l' '4-r~ u-A 92~' _ . ''~r~ #_92
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1;g==_- LIMITED uvvzcian uss .;¢ » ' 166 |. _ _ .""'- ll : , <-
_;.._! ' _ _ - .._'_ '; _,. -I.-92:92> '-_ _._ A »,- , . .._ _, ...,g;Q;; Ih;9n3 and 19§§ji?Q: U5$§§$;<; f._g1 .2 I F. ' -_ ."_"92_: _ . I, - . I _._,n 4 '1. -h, _ ' _ .0 .;,4.,-_ _ . -_. _:-,:'."__..:.: Z.- .¬-3".-f.._;__' W J . . . . ' 'rf1}E;_92.~!4'i{:5.:'{"]':2.g;"3 l m we -... .A - [Lodd1ng"h1s»06Q]_¢> _. . ;;,;=,v, .-¢ . 5 _ /.1.-1 -.-g ._|9292g_- ___ . _; _-;. , -¢_3--. :7. S, 1 * 92 I on
92 :-~ "" .- 7 _ " .:- " 2 F s =".-f-*1: -1§F"..-Y. »;;-é;1,_;;=Ag :2 1Ju1;J.nn1rr3 bl6k'1D};l'hl-8 time |_pmpwbii7o,f.:'l§ aw1: 1. . ,_ _ . _ . _ . ._ '. .- -1" v4L -- - - " . 5 ' ' .~~ ' " ..' 7 - ' 1
O 9- . '- " '. l - .' . , I .,' .,~. 5. .. -,'.'-'I- '- -- _. 92. .. -' '21 - ' -;_-'1 ' : -. n. n .. ' ,._~. -_.- _ _- -;-»-; A __- -¢--- - , .; A ,. - . ; _ .92 - '.- -. M.>1 it. .L ____* wk
* 7; I-'1-,5 _ YB- ~ ".' -. ~- ;.- -' . . ;_'¢= -~-:-,'.- 53- . 4. '. -. "i 1 I I
: ,-~ .: .
A70}; Dn yi: on node iuip - ' 3.!!!-;I"§ If -- A .- .:., ;-- -, I.- ;.' . _ '-- I--. l.'.__.. j _' 1 -
ap§¥£§é§£, and wh 8Q?§1dh1Ld¬t0 a1a you §a§ i a§rivi§' ,'§
-at tbuimibroad period hero? 4 A 2
s.. .- well, Au noax¢a:a'-:_lI?.q_an r§1ato~f:1t;'~ Qoia
uaj92=;"nA:|';lli-.'/3:? on to 1tl:'_1§_._1l ;l0u:§whe'roa'
,A.....:=iA..@-.*..%. §Bla§"'hll_5§.v;'ggflaaytdh,"':§'li:";ii tt§d'§
. l I _ ,of the 'hO'a. ' ' - > w-_ ~ '
. . . _
Q would you say it was after the Iér? .'-"I. .. - . . _:_1 1.3, . . , . . ._;_-1 1_=' 'A . Yea, 1} wag g_t§;6zf';'§he ya:-.' - ._'-'.- i
~;.£;;$'Q = w¢11, that ruauogd the pér1od'd¢wh trot i i}Q
and "H anyway ~ ' '
' MR.=RAND| wzch the ua;p of the Board: counaéig
;_-»-- _. _- ' . -Jot cpuriqe; ' - I g _ ,_
MR. ISIPES: He are dov;fl_to .aomo time 6110! thé Qilii
.- - MR. m92nm I must ob,1oot. This 1a ed:-_1y a _
leading question, Mr. Chairman. _- - . . '
; MR. BIKES: I_don'92: think that----_ -- _ ~» .._ __- , - . - '_. ,»____ -_ _. _ _
" - hm C1I!§I11I~1_AN: _Mi'. 8:1poa'waa'Jua_c>:_t:ry1r'13_ to
_.. __ . . . . _ .v. - ' ' ' , . .' -_ _ _'- - -- -:-I1 - -- - - -- ~' 9!_ " 4-! ;-41-. -- . -. M ..."' " LIMITED OPFIOIAL uss = *" - "' . "
. - ;--.- i..'-.'. ._.__ _ --_.'.92'.* '-:;>--.;-4:3 9;.-':_-rI- 2 .,92...-'. -.. '- I1-, "; . __
-a
I
1
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ll
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?.,-.-- *_ _ _ . _ ,A ~_ - - . -<7-"*@, " . 'f' 1'7 ' 7up-m-1' 7 _-- --,,,-_+.___1..--5--1:,- ~---__~'A-;.._-~ --+ 1» A Y;_'- A-~: f '92;n:-=-Ill-r~+~' ~,-~~ p.-r~' A f~;-nn~' -~92___|-,__,92,;,, -
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7
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92.
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92
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- 1
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21 ' mnrrmn <>m"¢m u:i1s""" ,'-: '* ""v fLIMI'1'ED -nzrzcznr; us: i6§ - '
: 1' _ . .' =." -.- -_ __ . _ ',_ .1 '. _< ,. _ > 92 ~ M, _s §h_1_Ii'g Co1.'n_. Mr. Rind, O_-f~_.~..-1 _- .=.?._.._=.=§i'~;..;--_':'.> ._ I'._z,Q _ _. :_;~r=-- 1. _. . -~:11.'j ' S».- - =1.--',._92. ._ 1 - ~ ~ . -- -l L" - -"- :- -: .- _,._ -9,, . H. _ =-;-"1;->2MIi. nnr-rm - Orsourso-.hs1.wanl-_ -v~:=,~ -~ ;':... -- e:*.=f=_ -' _- 1-*|0_.i_ _ - ; -1. .-._ ; _:1 - - ~- >1 -~ff-- - --'-1}-. ' '~' ',-1._ I 1 . . . ii . I : IF: ~92_-> _ -. __ _- -'92 .'.:.;-:9 -1-. 112?.-r-I;
w £;j}F TH3>cnnInMAR: §-ggto pas psrioq y. Blwyn-11 -"f?~
=11§gii;£:~,§nq; he saw Mr; '1>_¢yu'é$q{.. Mir. si;>§u"'wsi mg .
1:13 'tc}ff_L_nd'.'out', "JusE'a's iéufiouia d6," whiiuui-' is @5317 i§§§I, : , ;_...>,_ _ ' ,- .5 -.~;-._..__ - . ,. __ - . ,.-5-_~:-4 _, , * Q_92. .. _ _ t ~ _ - _92|_ >. - 1.. - l. -_.- _-._'...-_., - - . mg 4--.--'..~ = :- 4:: ._ :_ v~..-. of.a95°.5:.'_..~':, _ . _-.2--.1 . -»-j;,';_<r.:..' . '.>. --.--3.7.}--.:"1 ~,' '->¢',!~'%.- 1'" p=
-1 . - _. 92_ _ '1. A I .3: P - , -_ _ t ,-}_?._-J2; <1 v._§" ' --92|__ '»:} ,% "':92f. - . - -- - ' 92 '..,~- -.'~-' 92: , ' - k " -u.'. -:- ' f.' P ~ . I <'--- ~. >- ' -. ~ v .4 .1» '. - -;'-L --I 2 1 - ._ .-' '1'-.|. "'; ; . * ' _. ', 925 '4 2 ~ . . .. " -_ n. - . ._ 5 ._|_._,_:. . 92 - 1 g;-;._,,lm._ IU92.:ID:. I':_n uroiij-lgxlmininz'ibllt|!.921nlli"i_A:§;i_:E.§- ._-:.A "&>L.~1. f.- - -T~"'¢>»-e92~?4* -x¢~2 ; ; ,&u; Ian . Q - . 1 v .1 . -. » | , Pan otter? the b
fhCB¢ ' ;f' ;_;371."'l."_-:' ' . .. - -. - . - _ 1. 'n ' . - _ |. . _ , ., _._ . . - - _ - -> . ._ | IA ._.,;j§m. 3I1=1-$8: I'|_n aftsrjha facts Just is much is.-.j'.-", .4 '> -0 }_ |, ;I. -. - * '-- . .- . - .. _ . . - '. -_-_. . ,~ .,._ , . , ,~ I ..__..92 - . _ _-! _ s .1 _5_ I-| 1. -' , _ !_ _| _ _ l : 4.- ;v _ Mr I O I _ :1 __ .v__'92 -";92i-'92"_- '_'-| " ..-92:Ia___r,. 3-n . ' _ '92_*_I" . ;_v:f'_i A ~
- -g-_ ~ . -:_'- _- _- 51':
.>¢;:f§§lm. nnwnx IFspproclats_that. "§5; Q Q E%@?i%¬¬i
A . . .,-R iuL£HB.-sIPEsa'§i hand no:ob;aot1on_lo'isk16g7n}§h§§§@5' _ "I .V _ _ . -|. _ _ - -_.4
tion tbl ; think I will get an_nn£avorab1o answer 66;, -§'
I'm_work1ng for theUnited Btstss Government . -
I rd -LIIR. Mum I lppradiltc that,Mr; 3_1p§l¢' - L .
_ -:1 1' ;-A_'_ §_-"l_'i£B c1m1m'uuu_ A-92.92¬s'_'_lt__sj"l11'try1ng -..._92 > 92. - . " .' 0 I »um 'rdq_va"_bm> and trying c6_'¢'|:ib11=h.um1_="u
nnd_ I65 I-8&1 jzhcm and 1018! Zslbouti them. jI I- ; - _- n ' . _ . .> - . q - < . >- -' HR. sums: Thurs 1| 00,- prohibition shout a<>u~&'§
_ I _ .
Counsel asking leading questions, in tho t1__rst plane. _ -
THE IIMIRMAN: well, we would hops not to get inio
too much 01 that type or interrogation onjlthor side.
h l , A MR._$IPE.3z _ I oou1d_ toll you nick. by my quasi: né
_ . . . . .u . _ . . ». . ' ' . _ -'| ~ . ' --.., . _ _ . A , . .'_ , that -would have been 1 161: of unyzo y=u'§,;r"r_».1'.'_'f; *~'§;j;.- * 1-: - '~ ' J ._>- ' *
_ . -1-» . I - '
x" , '- 92
I .v¢.|
p
192
-
_;. .vs-._
I
' .4
9
I v
_92
92A
~
:-
16
"E
r51
.
g_ I:-
92
- 4- -- - > » » -~: _ " - - I ...-- -- .¢_'- '-xi;-_k~=.-.|i.¢.:--_-; .._._u..-.._:..-|.7..>.:..|.......~~-_.._,'~4 ~:- -44.-_: -I--- -- -b ~ "' '~¢-'~4923'=u >nn-I-In-IiI ',1-n.I§¢-k-.-92.4.
- |- ._ A
a sooo
. Y 92
. _. - LIMITED l FFIOIAL usn 176
~ '_=._,._{HI-I. I>.mTj>| I'm_ aor_q._F'=- __ ._ F. ;'
to ,:5"-. --3 -. - ' §.'.i- ~ . =-»;-_- -~ .e'-1-- ="»' - ' l *J~3'92 -'-:--". - '-4-~ '.' -:.-.- .- - . -- 92_ 9292-'..-1.. . ' '. .-' ~= ._ 1 - -I-_'' ~' - -- > - ml. - .'» >- ~ _ -- ootloznl - 1"--. . . I - _
'."' .-.- ..'_-. -I - . '_=- _ " -.92- .'- .- . . "
- - ' f MR. mun: I willwlthdraw the-objection. - "
. _ _ _ _ - ______ _____ _.__.._- -: f_ 4.A __k _ » ~ - "1" - ,_ _.___é __+ .____ I ,7 ~ -_. . " . _ -_THE-CIiAIlll'lMA_!~Il All right; ;." -- *.~. -. __ __. _ __ . . . J
I . .__ .. _ . 1 - ._ . _.~ -."-Ar -
_ , . . - _ A-I 92_ _ . l . J ,. ._..'. ._ __. _. A. 3 I .. __ _ ._I' -.1, § , .. . .~' ,_;§;J1=~ §q$yn-$3" X3.to 1:ry_h_p¢,na.r1=:--.1 down tho pcriod. . ¢-_ -;.j;:~,~ r =,.:--=*._~- -i
. _' -__~:_l1. mam: And let mfhang myault - - ~I.»
X. -- ..r . ;922'l5' '¢
, .;-';.-;_.@;i?_m. sums: :1 'ir11i'1u_§f!4r_.'_Rand. iojihéid mi;¢6a<;; A fa
, ' : PRICE: I wasn't q_o1_to clear in my mind!. I
!h'_»_-E1Vt¥AIl,"Ihcn Him you any 'ydu"£1_rat krfow Hm. baytod ¢u_}.=;;».. _ _. .-_, __ ~ H. _ I K
I rm ~
:_i_ - ';.<.-. .. ._ - - ' .. , 1 - .--1 r -" 9 A - It; was 1o'tho_ lathu part ofilhi "1+0'|'¢
: - ' l ' ' !§_:'_=1|
MR. PRICE! That you knew him as Mr. Dayton? Row? -_ . ._ 3 . " --,.* ; -.' . ' ~. 92
I '- v
. , ';, I A IJCRLIUBQ I hoard homobody can mm that:'1uame?92z_ _
.|. . . .~ 1 5.:-.--
I oouldrt sari Juat who Hiram» - T "' " ' ?
- .' . 1 ' . '_; ._. - j A _ I 1 L-. _ - ._ __ __f I _ . T . . I .1. 1 _ '. ,5. l. Q - .1 .. .- I
L; _ . .92 .3 _ __ . .-_§-. . . J A 1 .-<j?;92 " QUBS'£IO}LB,BY TJIE cmmmu ' '-*' - '1
. > 101.1 c1on£ #90811 Ib0?_ - '- . -.
12 . _ . . . , .,§-.; . A I don't recall who it was. It who i0m_nbod§E '; , I 4
-' Q But; you heard someone addraaahim he r. Daobhf
A YG9. . -
, .' Q 1-inn that in connection with his visitd to
%ton Street, or__was it out at Hudson and Morton St'2'oe§f§'P
.- 1 '-:_._-A ' lilo," t'h1a"wa'e 1n'_tho_tio11_"t_:h'ar0;loomewhoroa I|
;-.1-_ i, ._-,-';_=, , r the mail 1:91 when we were there ht we mailbox.-'; ~ -
' z A '1' ' LIMITED _om¢'m. uss "' ' s_ I
--»-Q.»-.4....-..,. _4.___- ....--i_~>.' '.....i-.." ..._1._-_..._-_- _..1 '»--Al at '4'"--9; l »- -'&i|-A'-}~-'-1-n|l- »' V - - u_>' !>92;>.- _:':_' Q -' $3-iiill4i '1-B:-J--'~'.
'-
6
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r
_
92 92l
C:
3
i
-
-
I
~ ~ - _'_.;_q x o5n'é understand; '_ _'J.hatis'.what _:{m't:-11:3;-:~.,,_.1!
92
'F
0
"Q
I
I
I0'.
~'.__ __ , 8 _ »_ .*_._- - 1' 4 -- -.?
J LIMITED uFFIC1AL_ us: '_
_ 92 - _ _ A
f{%;QfA nut you §on'§;r!g§ll who i§;§§aj£L§;_§f£; f g
,[*¬f§}§; NH; I dob'§§§ioill,§i!bu_aop;§th6 §diiSoR_3 ff
_ "§$gu_¢'icnm.> mpnub+=n|i_u£5_i_ i'can¢in§""92i';§f'indialsiadii. l _ > ~.., ;-., ; . I. ---n
an¢_herq oomeu tho stairadownatnira and tpori who iomubodj
iharq_ iQdicat1ng!, you kbou, QPQ Mr. Dayton, if1I.;ouillti;I _ , A > _ . ,. i. .. .;._': _ 44. _- .. D. .__ _ 1, »_ D _ :_,,_ _;:..' - ,_ __ _'.o_""
arohhd{1?That vqn a1l."Bo"thqb;is'tho rtang fog tho i§§";
I_reoall it an to Mr. Dayton;77ob know what I oan;ij_ =_f
I . -- I I;-_,"/L 9 _ I ' 1; -1-. L~.'._~ __ -L¬|_.'.~_._;!. 'A,___i; A :14 _'£:.
Qvmstrxougaw rm. mum. I , _ __ _ * i.
. 1 .- .» My I rak."-th1i'1b9>1¢¢n= 8811;;-2 ~; _;-j- 92, . v, _ ~ :. _ ._ _ _ .. W 1- _ll Years. - _ ' '. _ . ._. . . F
-;q This was one or the times, I take it, that
you may yr, Dayton in the cptrnnoa_o£ 65 Mpton §tino§¢_li;1- .92 __ |.~92 . .-. ~
.. ¢ '-
_.that r1gb§,.this inoidapt_gou pro talking about;.yhon iomb{4
. _ T _ . . -.:..__ - _ -- 4 :. .-x .=92,.=_.;_> _.. r-". 4.- A! .
body addjpaaed him? _ _T_ a"{' ' -'"-" _~-~ 1}-5'1»?
- _ _A ~Nu, this uaa_at the mailbox. ,Tho cntrnnoc 7..
was out_tbero indicating! and this is at lb: Qallbox. *"
' _ 1'Q This 15 still an additional time you saw ;
nr. Dayton? You saw him not only at the ontrando but at
the mailbox, in that right, Mr. Elwyn? ~ !__
<¢5g@ A» I saw him at the ontranoe,tha stair: hnd'1h§ "
aéverhl blédeu; you hnderatand, 7ea§__f1H; j;f_ l;f1:";f¥F{
_ 4 _ u
_q~92 1 » 1_ to dndorbtana; _ '_ . 7'
| -
. - V 1.m.mw onxomn ussif
- 1.
1. . - 1 . ' ,5 92- .|.... '-;~
:-
.-
'0
r13§§;j§ia pt tho_top of ho Qoon and_aoqaopQ_§dyi§ifiigiéxae- -.1 .-. ». -- 1- -, ' .; ~ '_~ - Iyff-,__3 e,-_;;;.,-',_. 18 n§_mail_!0r yvu,_Mrq'Dlitbn?5luna he luughd dndilwuhigig iK _ _ __.. ~ . I 1 . -;-:'_, . - , ' . . ,| . l-, ¢ , J: v
92
E
.-_~_-=__> ,,~-,I_n,"r_,-,;_..__..1.;.=L=- -|_..' >1-I ,u.;-~7 ~ .-l.a:_;lL-F" 3 ' 4-| --r-
Q
>1-1
__._92._ ...__ ii
3.
'r
92
.
1-.Q __-_ J ._ V .i >.. _.~.. .**.,'_.;- . _ ..-» ..-.-' --¢_-».-n.-' L. |_'
r
' -',.- ,
.LIMI'1ED LFFIOIAL USE . 112
.. . - - 1
»_ : . ' I - _ -' ~ 5,1 92 _ ' _., . I ..~ ."-.<'-1,4 __ pm jtzying 119' ml_:§=;1t plain;-l:,1_';l"" I ;__._ _ 1-.;.6 92 " _92ll5 92 , _ _ _ , . _ _ _ _ . ."J I h-:_.::.I, .,_ - . - . I: l - . - . L . : 5. -_¢._!H :;..,'__f:_;;;g;Q~ I anpre01ptq;§plt-;.gHal thi!.p8QIqq upo Q¥§¥f@f4{ .:_ 92-:'-*.. ';. = " .~ "" =-- -- A -11; . I. -.1 1" ' - '
_ . . _. . * -;__.v,-1.--=.. ._i.' _; _.~Q-an_ r_~0_alo§_ x-. 1>n.vt:on a woman_;or 0 man? ':.'2~ 3. _=___-.-.3 '
_f -_" fl A It wa a man; voice. I m'm_.b_uay _'w_1th_'_¥hi
_ mill} §i£b7§B§_c;}§{§r¥£;;§;'31v1dg him d£fd0§ibn§ iB§§¬ '§f§., _. > .-__ ; -_ .. _ ,|, .0, -.1-_. { :- .92'~__L_., -. _ . 1 _ '; 1-,A:92-.- |;- _" - Z_-_'__._';0¢-A ;""~ J-
P~..' - ' Mut92h_'1.I92_.':6Y-Q35-b|§'3G and cn@§_*"ovqE1t$6;-¢f'-nag ié> g;ii~hr§"1i:id'.'.. . ~ L 1 - ::--~ ~-. -' :<.3.'.'H':v- ii"-_"_E_E»-='-1'- -'_ " ' 5 - 92792$~'..:"' 1-; ,'_:'-.-11 ~'! ' .'.JP_ ~k~@ 75'1". A -- * '- - - ._ - "i925,1":' '.'- i".92,- ,.'.'; ' 5:-'11-99_k92Id;up Ind 1111'»-1 tbil 6BI!,1=19l§§ i;§.§~-1-:'~ ' - --.1:-T r $- Y | !|-- - J .-' .- :_ .11"? '. I - "5! in " .-1 . ¢1w':-. . , Y -"92_ ' _'., ' . . 4 _ _- ,' _ x ' u -.- <-~ --. . ii'fQ' ;t was not the darrier who addru§i§d hip7;19 :§Z
i'-.15, . Oh, no» - » - 47 .5 -
.- " - -. . '4 - .. __ _ . -. .5-l , .. . - ~. _ - .. f 4,
'.Z§{§-Q" *An.1'cn1s genmqmn a;ipeamd_l:¢ic'dow Mrfbkiéii~92_. - '.-'- =1;-_ !.' . . _» - ., '. - - . . ~ a
and qa1§,2?No mail £0; jou, r. Dayton , 1! QhQti¢l§b§§ g Y_;J. . . . -. I.',_ ;;l.-:.-H " 4". . ._,-5'-.{ 1 .*~ ;_-. . I-qt-_. _:_>q .§.A ' He said?-bbw a6qg;taf come bu§a§aLb{h §h} if ""
come on, Dayton; there: no mlil for you", dr lomethlng
_. ;n _ . .
like that. & '
. = @ _Q well, was ;t,'§§b!nppe on, D§y§qh, §h§;o§ Qgix--- " . . . . .-.'. -,>_ _ .- - _ __ » ,; '» .-'. .-'maii £ob you", or--- ~¢§ i 1Ik;.-> .' %§?§E;§"Q.'§£§;E§§: '' _ ' ' .' A - .-:3 1: , I: I ; 1-
1§1-A It was aom6tp1ng_}1ke that. I wouldn't any §§_
_ _. 4_,. -'..
Just the words, hut it nah a'io§onoe similar to that.5' _ . ,__ . .»
,Q He didn't Qua thg first name, d1d_h§?
._ A !n, no. _ ' {:'.'Ql_1_. ' ' I ..
Q no said, "Dayton, there is no mail tor god ? '" Yea, 1 think he am, 111$ tha , you know F _ K A _ _ _ U _ ,"ill? .- " . , _ " - '
smiled and reals around and out---. _'~- . H -' ._ 1.- - .~ -.. - ._ .. _ _ .__ _ _, . _ . . ' !' _.92'!c*naAwh6!'9_T-'- . t : _
.; '-. . --'-- J'._ - ~.- _ :- z ' a#:' ~Q T .z.mrrm> orrxom usn l1'I
- o-G
_. | I. .1. - P ~ -_ . w '9 ---"."'_5 .-_':q;5;,_,..-_~,_,___; _._-_4...._...92..-¢L_.~:...~;__....¢._-_1_..£....,_---- ' ~ 7- -- '- ~iI 1Q-linI~* ~- 7~_92.;_- .L, -_-! _ ~~ 4|-bl-irLn-*__4....
e o
' LIMITED IFFICIAL USE ' 113
H A ' C'|1£; tl_1e entrance. Hhothér he to11owed,jh1r6.l.
H out or whatevvr it wao->- d _' 1 Z ' ' ' -_ . __.| "2 -
u__;. _ _1q vuz do ion moan=Ftoe1ed around ! was no . "'
' facing the ma£1P92x? - _ E" f"¢ " ' . * =
op__ -d -__o. J_» -- he .»» A~Ys:u-;-he"warfaolngt5ema I1boi*h3*Fe7n'dI6Kbing!
' ' . '.Q _And where was the entrance, beyond the mn1Iho§1
; A . Ynn turn an go off here_ ind1oe§ing! dnd Q6 *
about 20 toot tw the entrance ndica1ng!§n7 i "n
. q , Int me ask you, M. Elwyn, this. *You stated '
on direct Qxmlnution that 7ou_aaw Mr. Dayton in'tbe enthéo
of 55 Horton Struet. ' . _ I- _ i
-" ' A Yfl. ' > '-
Q 92=.'r=11, when was that, what year? ; '
. A 'I can't give you the year. It in aomewherea
in h late '3O'u. 1
a Q whnc oeaeon of tho year was it?
. - u.
A I£ta eoe, Freddy was there.
Q _Hhn in Freddy? _ _ _ H
A That is my grandson. Hie name was Ties,
_ I .
Freddy Ties. =
Q -nunL season of the year woo that?
-A Hmm? " /" "H l. _ Q t-Jmt ocaaon of the yea:-'waa that, or can't }ou
be oertoin o£_th5t, Mr; Elnynih _ ~ =:A. .- " -. h"_;i
® ' ' LII-'lI'IED orncznz use '- '
. L I.-. > 4. -
. _ . 4 . . . . ~ - . " ' " '.'-' .¢u-_e-.»-u.-.u..__-.-..~.--.a._-...-.._-_~92.-~- 7- - ._._.L_4- __ A-- __1~-J * - 7- - 41_|» Le- ~ ~ -~- - --1~*i.Qni~hne§@t- ea.
'-
ii-j, '
o
1 1+
g l 92 0
1 Q: e Q1
- ' LIMITED ovvxcznn usn - - ' ~ _17h
q[:;; A Ne, I nan't¢&'It uaen't cold weather, I_kn' 3
l . -~ _ ~ _ 4"-_ _' _ , -_ _ .: 0 -* Bvt,t_m0!ni Ydu know--~*»5'~ QTL t. "§ ;?' Q £7.-1'?*'¢@f -. ' -H _ ' "' ~ '-" ' . _' _ " - _ . _-,
."£¢: AQ what was @515 sentlennn, whoh_Iou have now'
identified as Hr. Dayton, nearing? ' -
fjf'1 ;-,o,,*,;,t,'-§"*' '. "' * L _ -' _1? J - A .
'¥§iYj;§ what was this entleman. nhon_§on have hQ§?1
identiiiud as Hr. Dayton, veering when you new him at =53 ». ' : . . . .
entrance? ' ' ~ _ 'j* _ -
k A That I couldn't say. He had e eoét on, you
know what I moan, full dress. But I qou1dn't nay nhetho§ "
. l_ ._ _. - __ .. 5
he bee a tie on, you unoeratend, and thinge {the that. ;t,
- .. - ._ ', _ .-_- - -..--.+,'".- .
' » Q Djdn't you any you saw him on the street &1B6§'
' A
Q
' _ A
some yeer, or the next year..'-.. _~_ -;-, H _; *' .3YOU» ' . ' .
what year was that? . '. _,_ .| - ._ -
oh; right along the name year, about_the _
'. Q what year? You haven't identified e year yet;
A =u@i1, I can't identity a year Ȣ5au=.'z had
no roaeona to mark it down, to make any notes of it.
Q wnqu year was it when you sew Hr. Dayton on
the 1and1ng,whcthcr it be-the third floor, second floor,
. ,,_
nor the first floor? A
A -I.c1nt 51ve_you no dates at 611- _Aa I Gel ~ j
it; the lnttor hart or the"N0'a; It might hive n_ _,;
. _» . _:.num>_ on-Fgcxnx. usr: .
- - .- .2
C
-.
I
0
I.
E
E
i _ . _' _ _ - _ ~ ~ - >- 92,3» ;,<-_=4_",,,g,.b ,__|___-..c1¢.-._n..-¢1..4~ " ;~ 3 _-|__.-~ ---1 -4L~ :--1-~ ~ 114* * <|-pa-H-~An_& '~
I
LIMITED QFFICIAL use 1' V 175'
W .
'k7, it might hate been '49._"I can't toll yon hh; l,
. .» . <. _ r -_ ..i-L
i
_ . .¢
~ ' - ': _ M _ '."__ .. - :~ ':' '3 - ~"' 1'. . "- . ., . : -. .- - ~
- -~¥ ~Q Hhuh year did you I00 him on Horton Btrootf
I A Alrwg the name time there. >1 _ i
. ' ' ' :Q - but you can t giro us any particular pear or.1
eeaaon? -i" ' ;i '.= ' ""fi" .. 1- B:
1 j A: no. w.11,'p.m5nfm.-...mh; t-mt 46 you ._....; -
. _ 0t . -
' Q No, the first time you aaw him. _ .
"*"'A' Thu first timo,.Idan't give you the dates thobé
_ I can giye you the dates with the o£Tioero._ »'~ '%
. >'Q l what year qid you loo him on"§erroh ttreoti" 'ii} _- . .
A I can! any an I over new him on Darrow ltrtet.
T I may have paused him, no doubt, they all traveled round
y that way and things. I may have seen him;_but'I Juat don't. I ' ron Morton Btrcct,.the time h_Iaa with the officers? 1,;
t recall that I saw the mun there. ' f,1. H I 1; , 5 {r
' _ Q You Imve"tostiiiod._on the record, the -. ' -$11
record will shun, that rou nah him on Barrow-Street; bit "
you are how Correcting the todtimony._ ' -
. _... __ '
'A D:u_1I? _ 1 "
THE CHAIRMAN: The record shows ho toatirieo both
ways. 'Be£0re, he initially said 9yee and in answer to §§'
question ho Bald "no? and now he is saying fno" hggin. '?
. - . - . ~ .
'.A Yvn eee the way_it is, you oee_people end_go&,T_ 0 _ ' . .
Q?" ' ' .. Lmz-1'1:n'o1='P1c1AL uss A
92. _ _Q1
.'4_-~..L" ' " '-~ nu;-.._- : ....__.*..~.-..:4.>L.-.-.:..-
. 92 ' - '_ :, _ _' é . ,, _' ' . x ' 1| _v ' I v.__h"v_-_"". _ In-~ _-:-~'..?m»§~¢-§'~|'n92 . A » J1 . -1.:-mils. .'w'- 446Y 8
e»
:_ ~ oan?t always pxphe them right out, you know, because yo
mt-:¢'h1ng '.l.i92¢O Hill. .; - ; .- V t expect
_ " h THE CnAIRMAN| How old are you, air, for tha
- -- 1 - ~reoord?~-Or"92:~;d youirathernot' sa?" -7 ' ' - ' ' T
well, I was born in 1882. "
. 1 - -.v = ;» A
. QUESTIQNS at rm. am~m1_ _; _ *'
_Q Yuu don't recall the year or the season of
- - 1
the year when you saw Mr. Dayton in the Emerald Grocery
store, hr. Elwyn?
_ VA Ilo,Id0n0t. u ' .
.- . r
- » Q Ycu don't recall the year when you saw him
éright up opposite the mailbox when he reeled around?
A H0, I cannot give you the dates on thasa
things." . _ _ _- - _ ' " -
A - - Q Nor can yougive us the manner in which Mr. bay; M
ton or this gentleman was dressed? > -
A ha, I cannot. I cannot. ' '
.'Q was there anything extraordinary about-
Hr. Barton's appearance? . -
A I!-.1. The first time Imw him I gave him theH ,6iip-over, you understand, because there has been a iot Y!
' work every once in a uhiie goes_out and I Just got a man s
_ qt k a short time ago.- 5 . »-» I ~i3A- . A
4 92. . ;__ -.. . a
- ' ' ' LIMITED OFFICIAL USELIMI1ED_ OFFICIAL uss 17- A . .c ~ * . " . V .' ~ .." "-'..' 'T_'. ~_,,___ _'__-,_,,._-_¢_*-__--_-4 -_ 1__~_~ - -1.;---1.1 L534; -',u> -L7 '7 ~ ~
"yaw
a.
F
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_
Q5_ -_ . . . -¢'..._.T_-T,. -" 4 -»-M ;-;.. ' 1- ._--..1_=_,- _- _ ~~'£|n£-'~'$-A-n;|~'¥-'"-o-m " -;.6|..'_¢.__-; .-__.-..-_._._.L...1._.-.--_-_~ .¢-..;¢ %_~.~-._ l--0 .
nxnxwzn eFFICIAL usz ' A . . 177
Q K P1n'B what?
, A 11 mot his Federal chock; ft ~.i1.>-_1 _ ,- _ . . .- . . : » . - - _ . g -92 . ___H'A THE on [RMANl Bomoono oon£;acatod oomoono'o" A M
Federul chock? ~ . . ~ o .
-_ ______--'-'7-1
u.oy:.-~¢ A Ywn, they got a hotd or 1t." Tho! Jlmmiod tho
. _ . , A
mailhoxt And when you soc lomobody you don't'knou, ,»u_"
. . ._ I-, __. _ I. . = .Just 81?? them n look-over. 1-r.-- »1 = ~ ' 1 '»
. -Jr , -._ 92. -
QUESTIONS BY nn. nnnnu ' ; ' " ' * $
q Bcfnre you saw nr. Dayton ag the airport, waré _
you Bhown o picture or Mr. Dayton by the Fedorol Bureau of
Investigation agents? ."_ ' f~ x _» ; 1 '
A ni cnurso my memory isn't too good on that. -
I wouldn't any you or no, whether they showed me_a pictufe
or not. They initd I should come over there. " <
~ Q Over where, air? 5 .'
A To the airport. = ' _ _ __vj
. Q And did you nae Mr. Dayton again at Foley _ Q7;
Square at 8 Inter time? '
' '_ 7A Yhr, I believe I d1d- -
Q Ecru you called before the Grand Jury to
testify? _ ' ,_Ea, A N0. _ l . _
Q You never have been oallod before the Gpand,.
1. H.
LIMITED OFFICIAL USE-
_.. . _. . _. -_. . i. - - ~ ~» e .._--_.--92_'L-.-i¢-i|..mLA¬¢-4.l..~'_:-_-'f- » A'.92.u:_|-,--1 ~'-- _-.¢...s» _-:7 -< ~--;-.4: ' ~ 4~ -A Ar ~ - -»-V A4-P _ _ -- ~54-&n=~;,;4_:J_.__,_|___ _i
.o-4
6
our .1?!
vF _ _ _ _
~ LIMITED tFFICIAL usz t 118
_ ~_ _ A Nm. . _ -/_» - -
=<iiF .r - .- - .- ' .. . -' 1 .
1: °' Q -_r5 E1wyn,.hoy long otd you rgmain Buporin. A =_. . . - » - .~ _. =~ ~ -- - -*.. _s"= .
_ ont_1u char;+ of 65 Morton Street bongo? .. = . _"4-
. L
' . A In-~- ' > . ' . I =
A+¢_ _ H__,Q ,I_m;an,_uhen~d1d.you-g1ve~that»up*and>tako--.
over the Barrow street house? zheh was thht9- J" P-
,H:h _Iu 1930- L 51 ' 3 =Q - 2
> ..- 92-.5. -I Q In 193a? . - ;g ~
. *i
A Yon. Pardon me, in 1929.
92-Q That you took over-the Barrow Street house?
A Ioding his head] - .'q ~. . -
. Q.
. A
_uarr1son. - -And who took euro of the Morton Btruot mohair .
A {allow by the name or Harrison, William '
'" J Q And uinne than you have at no time been in ' _
. - .
charge or the Morton Street house alone? r .'_ - _ ___ =
"' A Yes, I have._: . . ' - i i -:5
'Q _Whcu was th1B7 - _ h V - _ %
A In H2 or something like that. arrtaon laid
I v
off than and I had charge of them. Then I put my grand-
oon in--and I don't remember, and he was there I couple of
_ years and than 1 had my other-Ion, not the one that was §-
h wlllb ahead of no, my othor ooh pho is up !rom.thé {arming
, H country,-he war thore a couple of yearn and than-this _? >_
_ 'o11ow came. A ' . _ "-
' - ' 3 - LIMITED OFICIAL usn
x
1
r
nr-92 _ 7
92_! .
'_ ' Q _ Am! then this aon__came'2_ " »LIMITED LFFICIAL usm . 1 9
"3 A [nnading his haadl '>j -j, -I; »_ 3.'@- - . ._ . _ . ._ - .|._ .. -_ _ - -..0
Q an {ob = long period of time you have nob
7 A I .
been directly in charge?._ » ' _ Q ' _
he wai iiving in Apartment 6-If - , ?E _ 'f' QA :Ilc - _ -1 ' : _ -
Qlv when you first ne§_Mr. Bnrant, did ion hhoi
A You, air. < I A
q with whom did he iive thdre! if you hnow?_
- I:-A Th»t is a hard question to answor.~ _ "
Q Did he have a wife? T ," .
. ' 1 I
A' U0 did later, so they said;
Q You did not know his wife?
A I knew her by Bight, yea.
Q You saw her? . - -
A when I Hal B016 it was h1a.wit0¢" ,T' ' " . ..4. ' ~ . - 4 7 _ " . . - ' - - P -- -" " ' f4 -~11-:_-1 ».:.--.:_.__'~ ~.i_ ~ -2! -k-11-A-A-.41->;-in ~-_3A~:'~- ~- - ~ +> "'r~ ;u='~n.Q" '5;-A _-g-A"-,v~m ,~__- -¢ _ ,,. _> . .-= I . Yr: _
|
*-
.~
1-
b
Q nun were there any children that you knei of
in that upértnent? _ ' - '
Iii?A IIUQ A
Q U0 children?
A That: r1ght¢ . _ '
Q And did you continue to see his wire at thaJ"
apartment in tn; 1npu 'ho'aq . .. A 1A __' _'
;r_-_--. .'5 _n¢. Sanan himaelt §eraonai1y,.eifhor in"h5_?
LIMI'1'ED OFFICIAL USE '
___ _ _ . ___ E _ 1 ->- 92, ..92 .--<,-- '* _ .p'_.>,-'A*-." '_.,_-.-T,_-_s-.-~,;. --__,; t___..LlJQ._""92>-L4v92l.Al~@" ,1-12 ,4:-; :~»~.r:~ ~»~ - ~ A» ':n-an-inJ,A92-l*92Lf~ 1-~*~ P J4 '" ~;;_
L. 0 92
LIMITED uFFIOI_!AL use ' . 180
forth: TH: 5:131 had hs_apartmentQ- h. h" i'éh =. i; s4$ +6,wunt to I=,~"raouao and he good toodrop backwards er? H
1" -
»" ~ Q nun did no pay his rent to you? ' ' "
-A Hr, he paid it to the office. _ '
".1 <
@ .* __ _> Q now,-when_your son,who has been hers today; '
took ovor, did you discuss M.'Bsrant with_hin? Did yBu'-
identify Mr. sarant to your son? Did you ndint out who _
was M.-Sranb? - ' ' - ' -
A> A no, because Sarant was in Syracuse.
Q And did you nee Mr. Sarant after that? '
. A oh, yes, I saw him when he oropped aroundq
-1 '.
Q Hus your eon in your company when iou.ssw
Mr. Sarant? '
A roll, that I wou1dn't_aay, that I couldn't
say. It he was, I introduced him, you know what I mean,
if he Ins. But I oou1dn!B say thpt. ' You kno, tho 38m; "
way with my grandson and my other non, I oou1dn't any Qhht: %
That in s harq thing for me to answer, you know. -
' ,Q You attempted to be extremely honest in the
initial part of your direct testimony. You have said, is
it not true, that there might have been another man who
. b _ ,_
- looked vary much like Mr. Dayton looks, whom you may havp
UNIV . - ;
Been, is that right? - _ _ - L '_ 4 _ ' ,i~. _ ~ . 4. _ . _ . ,
___ . A_ I not two grandsons that is_twins. __ t-
. LIMITED OFFICIAL USE T
S
r
.-
I
I
»92_
F3
U
L
4P - 1 .
Q
. 1LIMITED L-3-FICIAL uss ' - 181 A-._
_-QY1hq;:;_z are! _ ' J .
- , - . -_ _ _ _ > _.,. -_ ',:-
, ' Q Is Lt true there dould have-boon someone 0150
, . . -
who looked likv Ur. Dayton whom you saw? _ -
1' ='1kto 1urnouId*verv'walI"hsvé"B5ET*"'Bh¬ IhE¥iEi i. > -. _ . 92 -__.- :ron soross that party yet. There in no such s th1ngt_ st
got s man,pho lives ln-tho_hoqss on Barrow 5troot~s1d0}_I-It
sot to look twlcn to tell him when his brother oomos to .
_v1s1t him or I will say, "Hello, Dick"; I Qot to_get.hls
race right up. These 1s_some tssomb1ancé,'you'oah snag:
always to the fnne| you know. And there was s police
v ' > . __ -: .','
sergeant there who haatwo girls, int and Jsno._ And{ lshd
oakes alive! I gut to get them right in tho face too. t '
Q How far away is Ahlngdon Square from your
apartment buildins» Mr. Elwyn? 4
- * x ' -_ . | -. ' A Ablngdon Bquars? xhero is s square over tbsii;
and_Abln5don Scwure ls--lst's see, we have s house thsro-Q
1 don't know,, on urn Strut. That is two blocks, two .
short blocks this side, so it is Qight short b1ocks"sway.~
Q Have you ever seen ms around the V111ags,- "
Mr, Elwyn? '
g
A I think I saw you onus. 'F 71 fQ_ JAnd_1hout_when was_that, slr? ht s5
' ' - A "That was don at the Court..'.> .if_7;;_
' ' LIMITED OFFICIAL USE. 1
3. .
.3.i
'0{i
.-.
~3_
I5
~*r?-,?-ha!-»}Hi!'?1._, * =*. -. *"<"._=§7f":'-T".h**j._"'-*7
l
;~.92
-"1 ..
a
1
I
~_¢ . ,1I .ll . -. 92--' .
2,
0 ..92.
KA _,';,'j:=;;;.iA.-- -v:q11,' :.§,ne_;peq_;me,1eoua'__e_ieesii _uueLIMITED LPFIQIKL uss 1 " ' 182' '
- . _ ». ~ _ '
_ . .-'_ . 1 -.._ - ~ / .* -"P6 .' ._1_ _:'.'.J;.»~:3_'.-le-_ rlwldinzz bill hm! . I "- I 1."rh.-=-': was dq_vm' at rm, aqua;-5, 1'e'__'§mu7
1" T I ' : i; : F Y:. 92. _,;._Q An-I 1! I were' gate
Folei. Sqiaero 1:|m:»' you were there, what _wou1d_yuq elq "Q5 if; -
. - ~ _ >.- ; . -_ .' ~'
. . ~ . - ' ' . - -1 "~ - v '---~~ ' . ..'."~-".- 7 ---. "2'. - __ ; ,__¢__.-Y ,_ " .
1 rwho, 1. uhderamnl. reIQmb_1Q@_j09:§ tote __».§:
. _ ' "j3_'*11iB um-.IRmAN| ma vihieaa is uxo'uu'df' nnyih '
very much for 00111103, Mr-;E1.wyn._. - - .. Y .-.. . _ e .- _. . -- ¢. I . s.
__ . -,_._A; Gent-1emen,.I trad io make it iquere both
as l'_&'8 ll I owl-1. _ ~ ' 2 1"
rm. smas: 'menk'you,-Jl-u-. £1vryn.*_.'-;-
- [witness oxoueedai '
__ T33 CI1192f[RW92N: He heve goncludadjhib h_aa_.r§n3';_, ;+;,; .__ _. _ 1 - -: .. _ - - ._ , -.-
_ . - NR. ml-ID: . May I ask, Mr. Bhaiz-man, be1'ox~a~bh6. . I. 4 - , - - ' __. .1 A.@.~ I» .:1 .-hear1ng'Laoom:.1uc1ed, may I aakr. Daytod 5'8!» que'l'lu§§ i-.
um» will be only rive minutes. - " _ I ' '
. - . I. 1.- . I.- 'l'HE c'nr.'.uu-emm Five minutes? we only came hoii
to hear-the wztmanea-and have the wttneasea arose oxemihei
I92 . a.
and, while I would hesitate gnvlously not to give you tlfa
courtesy or ll!-1k.l,n{; your presentation, frankly we have gag; '@.the testimony in the rfeoord now,_'aaiE_un_M, in ao_ 3
n 4 ae'we_h92gman1y can from _thea'alw1tpaa.nea._ _ _ . _~ it
nu. 1 - » _ . . - * _ . _ A - ' ;. . . l _ _ A_ i -- ._ _ 92" '- r.mm-:0 cxmozn. uss "2
.____.
1
.'92'. '
_ I
I
92
I
5
1;
_ _ ,, , . . . _ . . _. _ . I. ._ . . - - - _ I g __._ . - . .. V; .. -92 , 92.¢ - .- ._-_~.-¢._.'¢_.-.¢:..*.*__4.'~.-.-..'|_-»-~ -1.:-...=, - =8-IA.-4.-_--;- - ~-A »-, 4~# , ; -n-r - ' - - -'~_92Af* _iI'~»~'!~ .__'»- '0' , ~_v- ->4 ~-- _ ..
.3 LII-IITED oz-*R1c1AL use: q *183 ' _
c2 ".. " -' »- .r i*'
,;;;;' - Mm. HAMW:I tour questions; Mr.
--4!" -4- 'nmc=v» ml-mm xtxwqia an make 1: "¢.;, bi-i92¢§,':w é'
will grant you this
4|._
O~ *~_-;-MR?!=i1>%131~"We*dtd"ad;iournand"vfo*!'b'6';Tebéd f|jierii"* " * May I just ask Mr..Daytoh thré op _i -
> _ _, , |.:.- ' - IChalrman? J ,~ . ." *~_ .;;-,,§ Q}, ..., _ v__- ~.---
opportuqlty¢ > -_ 2 '
. -~ » ' .- 92 .'-~
So I think we better swear Mr} Dayton in lglini '- ' '
whereupon,
called 38 a wltncns
sworn, teatlfiod an
MR. I..92?31>a
afternoon, you have
room and have hoard
been identified for. | A .- . . :' fl - . ... - ' . '» -
' -n " -. I 4 1I . 1 92 I 2 . 9' Y I... ;-H ,:.!,;L - _r_,-!,'{:'-::{4,:?h
A I -_ I U U I .1: -//r
-~ I.I- _ _ ~ '- 1 -- A . - . '1 - .L.--' . ..'92 | - -' ~- _ ,~..»._.--..._. _ ' ' . I: ,--1.5-r _ |annex unworyybimon, ' -"_.:J':;_... .h
in hia own bahalr, hhvlng been duli
follows: ' ' V 'L -. '
. 92 . . .
Mr. Dayton, during thla_momlng"and '.
Been, hava.you not, in this hearing
tastity Qhreo individuals who hava _
the record as Floyd G. lwyn, al Jeaqdb
Elwyn, Mrs. Jeanne Elwyn, and, he I take it, floyd Elw:
THE CHAIRMAN: Senior. '~ 1~ o
MB. HAND:
I800101.
QUESTIONSKBY NH. HANDI .
Q my. Dayton, have you Been them, observed them
_ _ Q
_nn¢ heard them testify hero this morning ano afternoon? I
. A You. ' '"' ~ L.
.
_ ' Q _ H*. Dayton, cap you tell us uhother you hgvi,._ ._92 , .._ ..
_ _ . . I
' LIMITED OFFICIAL USE
Ai
Q3? J,
E
s
...¢.-a.L|.n.L.;-..¢-I
I53~__l_ _ 1 _ _ _ __ . _-- '7 .p".._-__~. ,.-v '_'_ ,1-'¬-t>:,_.,'.._.-.._,-M , _..'A1 §g}_"J' L-L .- , A - 4-1'-,"~» "L51;--= --M-Va-~ _ 7 ' " - ~'l-w~:-- 0
r}m1'mn »1-F1c1A1. use 'i_ n . 1814
~ . ¢ . 2 '
' . -Y ' _ ~ .iQ.-. t _ _ _ > i-.
n any or all at theta individuals beto:u_tqdny?» ti f-.m _;-~,[._"l._A l hato.'|i'fd_i|w'th5m! =5q;lm'i~9;'&>§. 5 _
'_ ' ____ _ther; the f1~at time that I havé any-roooiiodtltngtn "
Auguut B, 1953 in the_bompany Qt spacial agents Litt16j$hn,
_;i i hhoyal ant Ronny. nr._R6ngy_a9n§npaniedmmaitnomtithaed.~§,A ~ -~
.,
I
I
5. .Mr. Lifénjohn met him thern_§O be with bO;§§h6P$;_R§iki _
and ROYIQYIQ: ' - -A I I
'~Q Did you aea than an any other oochtibn! '
'Mr. Dayton? '. _ _ ~- A. t _ ~~
1 . .
_;;,A On, I believe, April 17, 1951 I.ramembcr a¢e
ing the lanior Hr. Elwyn, I donit recall Boo1ng_thu ydunéér
Mr. E1iyn.pr 1111.1 "ma, in the Grand Jury waiting rodm at '
" Folay Square. é ~ ' '
Q Did you ace the aenior Mr. Elwyn when you '
went.dowb,-an you have testified, with the FBI agents t6
the Mrttn Street apartmnta? _ 1 -I _ _ ; ;
I - . .-
' A no, I didn't Bea him. ~ . .
f Q _?o the beat of-you; repolleotion, taet1ty1ng_
under oath, H. Dayton, havs you seen either of theme
. I '
individuals on any occasion,-other than the two oooaniona
jou have Just toatiried to? _ - -'
" A On no other occasion. - ' " ' ' .
S > 1. , _--
!!i¢ _j Q ' This may bé at the expense of repet1t£cn,fo;__
, __, _ _ __ ,_ _ .,.
the record, Mr. Daytpn, have yon over been 1n'the'hpartmént'¢
' . --.. , ~ ' ~ .
. . . _. ' .' ' LIMITED owvxcznt usz " ~
Q.»-!;._:_.._.. ... .-..-
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Ming daa1,~_.n-_ 1-Qd as 65 Mozfton -Street: ¢n»a¢-510%. .
_otho:_jb;n tho nub oocooibo hon 7ou_won§ ooqu thori ii} .,A
'_.mI_w°nt!1|_ , : _ -4; I - L _ - -- . -_- -, I; -. " _ Qt." --
A rm. a1r,~on no other ooonaion» ., I - '
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Q.go. You have never been in that particular apartinoX. _ . _ . , , .w1thl|hel'BIa;_;r~.ut:a,oa1rT -- F! 1 5 o W _ W I Jo _::9_u_remembo:..tl:_o_dato; v:l:on~>1o92';§v2ve:1hb'-__¢lo1r'i"i-i=_ *-
1 ."_ ' _' . _ II .. __' I _ . . . _:_.7 A It mm Juno of 1951. 1 ue1uvu ti»dt Iiuai
in New York trm the 2151: to thuéhth or Juno uni! toao A I
pmmn; on the rm: day, on or Bbout mm 21, 1951. '
cr:.'-'.m1-mm ¢ z henna you "pnivzougny cnnciiiéé - A
that7ou_ #0 I1-at lrnow William tori. ' .': -
-"' "A. fmata right}. iiaéonoo mJ&i1$"§¬'1»n 3:" J '
-mating him . _
MR. P.r~=!|m You were shown_a pioturi of him; we:-8
waa identtnoo no ' you not, or a picturo or a man who
l1r..Per1.7 - V - "'
A I |.1.{an't recognize him. Q V"
92
oussmxons mt aim-1 czmmmm =6 ..-' ' Y
' _"'Q I tmco it, from the question answered
about 65 HO'l'_t0n :.;treo*;, that would opply to Apartment 6-I}
92-mothar 1: was in 65 Morton Street 01-_1925 that up-.-¢u_'1u'
b8v¢v°92l;-Yo * I " Q , . _
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_f. i on 2'0 right. ,;o A N -__ = ' >¬_o. 1 ;: :.q who aporfmont bi hoe deaoribodl '- ~'--. T
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ovoh with the uxrntn. _ "f _ I " -_ .
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~ - 0 ~- _ __ .5,. 92 7 . :,
sixth iloor and we walked by 1Q_lnd he pointed out and '
said, "That in the apartment." ' 'A ' _ i
buildi . Q Hem you evaz? in the basem: nt of that
108, Ml: D'&yt'-"1111? ' _ I ' h ' -
A And than we wont down to tho baoement and
walked Qhrough the baoement hall and Mr; Royal énd tho
othor agunt with him-- - - ' t
M. rnxonz Litt1eJohn1 _ ' __
, .
- A 110, cm.» was not Littlejohn. Libejohn is
. - _ _ - I . . -"
o big, tall man. This was a short man. I.think Nbgaili 1
or nomothin8 line that . ' ' - ' . m
QUESTIONS BY THE CHAIRMAN! I .
A - .'Q Did you aver own a uniform of chino cloth;
-auntan cloth, the type hub Mr. Elwyn described as having
aoen you wear? nave you ever ownad or havl you over woro
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and koki ahzvu--asaio, hoso pogo out o;92i§hriIo1obni§§¬§_. i .-- _ 4 92. V . . _.'_- .- A , . .-_. » . - -. 92 |. .. .. »_ .__ _ .__ . ._they'll! Just {mom a 1_1opartmon8"oore, mid of a khhjd.5"3_-' '-
oolor--mga whnn I was ti the Oolmio Bay Ilboxfatory tn -
Colorado. -'1i1.1.o was in tho lmnmor of 19.52.; -- - i _
,1-;_ 3 Q» The: was the tn-at you bad over bought this? I
_ 1
A A Yen. x have had khaki pant! before but oovéb
khaki pants and khaki lhirtn together. _ '
A- Q Thank you -vory much, Br. Dayton, Thank goth
- . ..';_ _._ __
' . » ~-J 4-" §:"-;iMR. Rmm: Thank you. -' " -'_
THE L'1m;T.nMAN| Ho otlnd adjourned and we hopo to
give you EQ-D expeditious answer in connection with this
wholo mttor. _ . _ u
" ' MR. nlmm Thank you very much. .
A A I wont pa iuaularly to say that 1: thank you _,
_ P"g1vl.ng me this opportunity vohave my Oounnel arose. I . . 4 > ¢
__ .- _ . . _ . 1 _ _ I _ , ; ' . 4 . . ' - ~, _ | . . - '- -"1-" LIMITED orzcxan usn"o** * ' " - '""t examine these v'vb§.t.;'r|osao|l. It! lomotti1.n3 l1'§"a.oB h_tho'3uok£o'§', .
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Dcpgsgent ne"vr afforded mo. n I _ _ '_f*f
l __ - § .[wltnana was ekou§a;j_I P
THE Cnninnna It: 1.5006 thing and certainly
nllMo£-us-are~1n¢11néd~to~tr7~uur~bestAto~havo~all~of~§h§~¢.
. ' - . - -. » -1:-.'|evidence involved in a particular-case broughb to l1ght ;;*
and 1: 11; can :.-»- done more Oxpdltlously through oo;if§bh?l&.- - - - - x- . . * - . '1'
tion, I luppocn Lt should be done that wa7.' - 1 -
. MR. LAY: It can be done only whera the wltnogeea
themaalvas voluwtear their willingness to appdar. -
THE CHPTRHANI We have no right to lubpoeni of 4-~
anything of khht sort in thlé hype of hearing. =' i
[Th% Board adjourned at 3:30 p.m.]
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-_ @0311 man: tiled passport application on Ila:-oh 12,»
l956, at lalhington, D. 0., for pr oaoa nix vookl travo.abroad for buainooa and plaaauro. Thin airtol point:out LORI! pll8pO!'t-lpplictlnn 0 on aho would oontor
_ with oortain publiahon in ha-ope regarding financial.
ginattara arining .1:-om their handling or tho pulioation or
1'-= . Coho lotto:-a oi JULIUS and IEEL ROBHIBERO. , .= -'--.- A 4- _ _, d_ . I ' _A
' ' ' Ibo following information was brought to mo
__ aqt-ontion of SA 8E'WE'i -T. mam on Juno 11;, 1956, by
= ' ABEL!!! J. IIGBOLAS, Chief, Paanport Llgal Divilion,
__ _ Pauport Ottioo, Doparhant of Stat-0.
Paaaport 06711.92! was -illuod to GLORIA AORIH on i " Ha:-oh 13, 1956, valid to Juno 12, 1956, and good only for -_»
,_ Bvitzorlanmnnitod Kingdom, Franco, Italy, lgium,
Iothor1an¢ia,"a.nd ooun¬riu am-onto lhia pauport nbow. ' thotollouing travel by_b_aarar| . If .= ~_ "_ -.5-_.; .-
___ _ " 5' ' "mm-ea Pu-in hf/56 " ' ~ Dona:-tad ?a.92-in Jflfb.. -- .B92t»orod London fl 56 __;*;:-.,+=;L_-. - I Dopartod London 32/56- mm-Q4 Paria I; 3y 6L
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Bit-orad Bwitnx-land -5/5/56' n-__ _ _ mm-no 1:41; 5/5 56 _ -I I ~Dopa1-tad Italy $3? 'V ?1 v:L.._f:-LA->_7 I _ atorod P1-anoo /F76 _ . _ 5 _ _ _ _ -=Z-iéi " Dopartod run» 5 1 ss . . ._ __ . ._
'=: . _ mm-.a Bllgium 5/21/56 _ _ ,,_ Do uteri nugzum /29 S6 _ /'75/97!!/.
.1.-_-"_'._ - ' 5 1 - . '' £1 - - ' Blanch Proodman! - ~; -= ¥"° ha séqfé - ~ ' sww-1+ ¢=.5-1? .40 1-.-*.,~.-*§w:,~,=,-.-. Dorm-rod Iran» 79 56 ,-".5 "~ Arrivod HO 6/10 56 ' - -' =1-; ,';;:_?_:35:'.':;"}»§;;,-;_-_: l ' z ' I _ . _ _. ' 0 11:, ___'
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~I-shu-nod £01410 Passport Oftlos on Inns , 1956.10 5-*3-~__
BI-HOB FBEEDIILL Atturnsy-of ITO, and pa-tnsr QLADRII, ' '
as put or sgrssnsnt saith IIGHOLAB Ibsn passport was
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- _ - ESPIONAGE - R I "
_ . OO-Albany!
y n une 9, 1955, a telephone call was placed
'from the summerwresidence of LOUISQ:SERANT, 1099 Taughannock "
Boulevard, Ithaca New York a lak id
_ _, _ ace, Madison, Wisconsin, telephone " ' # Cedar 3-5746. I - "
5
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',;}92 from the SARANT cottage to Corning, New York telephone 2 6 6 'nvestigation by the Milwaukee Qzfice determined
that this is the address of FREDERICK SCHULER, a_high school
It .eacher_in Madi§on,_Uisconsin, and further that SCHULER has '
a son, FREDERIQ WILLIAM SCHULER, who was previously investigated
under the Atomic Energy Act. -_ I ' -~ . AJ;;§ 6 an , __, es e cottage! to_EBEDE§ICK .i.t CHILLER 2 3 Park P1M .- . . _
l92
Q
_ IL/Qfivesti tion by the Boston Office determined that ,-QFREDER ¢SCHULER %gereinafter referred to as SCHULER! was '
employed asga Project Manager_by_the National Research Corpor-
atiod, 70 Memorial Drive, Cambridge, Massachusetts, from
November"2l,Hl9¥9,-IoHMayl5,.1952, whéH*he"resigned to take
a trip abroad, He then visited Japan and later Europe, where
he either married a Swiss girl ormreturned with her to the
United States, where they were married. Add't 1 ional information
was developed that SCHULER is now employed by the Corning Glass
Corporation, Corning, New Xorkl
. On September l5, 1955, a telephone call was placed
I '99-
Inyestigation by the Buffalo Office determined that_ is the phone
.1 sued to FREDERIC SCHULER _lO5 East Ti '
¢
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.92' ¢., n rd Street, Corning. In- '
quiry at the Corning Glass Works reflected that SCHULER has
been employed as a research associate since M/8/53. His wife !7T92
is listed in personnel records as LILIANE SCHULER, who was
<=¢=-'-2-sa5e;;1'5_592~2; RM '
2-Buffal .. 6 - an
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= - - - or k '¥ n ingest? xi ?é§3§§ 6o!m¬I 1'0! RM Y4 H. gaA§:ady'5-16613 . %"'$73l/3'7 ". ' Izsw ~-~ i
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. ~'- -e~---_ ___.__ r,i..__ _'_ ' _ , - .- __ he: FREDERIC wn.LIAM-92.s'cHULER* _;;_* -- to --~
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__.Q;-__--_"F}B..FZ.§Bl"[email protected]£3§9--sas .-l_»a_l- LL - _ H
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l -. ?:' .'. IIr '. CL1, _.._.1. > 211,-.. . --, 4. -I 0 I I-" .*:/'2';-5'5/1/if C ......-. . _Y4";1.._-----"""""'73' - _A1-_ £5_16h . , . 4 I/S J , J _/_,. ;92<Q_I-1_"U|-,=~ ~- Ll 1_ | cu»/6 /5 -,~_J__-_/_/;-'1.'.,¢.p>¢.:=-_,-- _ _ _ , ___ i_H.l.. _m ;b 65;;employed on a part-time basis by instant company as a foreige>%¢@:; language secretary from 3/9/Sh, to 6/25/BM. She was born__ 'dj;;|£- 9/2/27, at Milano, Italy, and has applied for United States »*'{
-citizenship. An associate of SCHULER advised that he believed"
that SCHULER took a trip to Europe in the latter part of 1953,
. where he married a girl that he had previously met while on
a world cruise in 1952. SCHULER and his wife also took a
A Files of the Passport
D.C. reflectofState
bL
>0/' It is very probable that scuutsn is a friend HELDON
BBQQQJDQXTON, rather than of LOUISE SARANT,'since DAYTON is
also employed at the Corning .G1ass works. Through DAYTON, who
is an intimate acquaintance of LOUISE SARANT, it is possible '
that SCHULER and his wife received.an invitation to visit -
the SARANT cottage on Cayuga Lake. This would explain a
telephone call from the cottage to SCHULER's father in Madison.
- It is believed that an interview with SCHULER would explainthis relationship as well as gvelop any information indicating
- any possible contact of gg53g__§g3gy1_uy SCHULER during his
trip to Europe. Accordingly,.Bureau authority is bei
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