Waco FBI Transcripts Tapes 139 - 140 Part 40

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U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPE #139
3/19/93
10:15 P.M. ~ 11:03 P.M.

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 Tape 139!
DAVID: -- come to any other nation. You'd
think he'd come to the biggest nation of all, right?
Because anyway, remember the fact of the matter is is
that Christ being the prince of the kings of the earth
when he does come according to what Nahum states, you
know, we find that, that there is a counselor in which
it says why do you imagine against the Lord?
In other words, this belligerent power has
this ideal in their mind that this person has done
something wrong, you know. And, and the prophecy
states, you know, there's one come out of the - that
imagines evil against the Lord a wicked counselor. And
God says, you know, affliction shall not rise up the
second time.
Of course, in the prophecy of Nahum it's
different than the prophecy of Isaiah which talks about
Messiah being crucified. Taken from prison and from
judgment, you know. Taken out of the land of the
living so the transgression of my people would be
smitten. You know?
But it promises that yet he poured on his
soul into debt, but he shall see his seed, which is the
children he never had 2,000 years ago, he shall prolong
his days, meaning that he's going to continue to live.
and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his

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hands, because God gives him the book. And it says he
shall see travail of his soul shall be satisfied by his
knowledge shall justify many.
The prophecy goes on to speak about how it
again it will come, the testament will come to view.
And it's in latter days, you know. What has not been
fulfilled yet will be brought to view when Christ comes
again in the latter days with the seven seals. Now
Nahum --
JOHN: However, this, this isn't telling me
how long it's going to take for your students to get to
the seventh seal?
DAVID: No, no, no. What, what happens is is
that under the first seal --
JOHN: If they're in the fifth seal now --
DAVID: -- under the first seal, they learn
the key of David. They learn the dialogue. They learn
the situation and the circumstance in regards to what
they're involved in right now. You see, they know what
God requires, and they know that men who will not fear
God will not take heed to God's counsel. You see,
right now --y .'
JOHN: Well, you believe that all of the
people that you've been dealing with out here and the,
and the people that are with this organization are God-
fearing people I hope.

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DAVID: Well, I would say this much. It
says -~
JOHN: Or believers.
DAVID: Well, they -- look. Let me say this
much. The fear of the Gods begin in wisdom. And his
truth is his fear. Now Isaiah taught --
JOHN: Well, I've been looking for a yes or
no.
DAVID: Well --
JOHN: Don't you believe I'm, I believe in
God, and I'm a God-fearing person?
DAVID: I believe that you believe in God,
and you're a God-fearing person.
JOHN: Well, I'm, I appreciate that. Because
really -- it's like a parrot, huh? Really it's
everybody that's been talking to you is the same way.
Now maybe they have a different accent. Maybe they
come across a little different. Maybe some are a
little more brash than others, and maybe they're a
little more soothing. But we all feel the same way.
DAVID: Okay.
JOHN: We really do.
DAVID: Right. Now the thing of it is is
that, that one, the God that I'm trying to introduce
you to is in your, found in your Bible there.
JOHN: You mean that you're trying to

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introduce your children to.
DAVID: No, no, no. Well, see, let me
explain. The one that I'm trying to introduce you
to --
JD!-IN: YES.
DAVID: -- is the God that sits on the throne
who has something to do with seven seals.
JOHN: Yes.
DAVID: See that's where, that's where --
JOHN: You been trying. -
DAVID: Yeah, I've been trying. But like I
say there's a little, there's a, there's a gate there
between us.
JOHN: Well, there is.
DAVID: And I can't, I can't help that.
That's your choice. That's your prerogative.
I JOHN: I know. I know.
DAVID: So I -
JOHN: But I'm not going, I'm not going to
argue your position though. You know that. I've told
you that before. I'm certainly not going to argue with
your beliefs. Why should I? .
DAVID: Well, how can you? You don't know
what they are yet.  Laughing.!
JOHN:  Laughing.! Hey, remember, you said
this was going to be light and humorous this evening,

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didn't you?
DAVID: Well, you're laughing.
JOHN: I am. I am. But you are too, aren't
you?
DAVID: Yeah, I'm doing everything because I
do love --
JOHN: Hey, if we --
DAVID: -- I do love you, Mr. Cox, and --
JOHN: No, no. John.
DAVID: John. I do love you John. And --
JOHN: And if we lose our sense of humor, we
don't have too much left, do we?
DAVID: Well, see there's always tears in my
eyes when I, when I have a sense of humor. Because you
know, I realize that you all don't understand the
importance. And that's just - I cannot help.
JOHN: Well, I think we understand the
concepts.
DAVID: All I can do is stand and give myself
over to your judgment.
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: And you know, if you all do not make
the proper decisions, then we all are going to have to
be judged by our God. We all believe that our God's
going to judge us.
JOHN: Yup .

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DAVID: You know. And we're going to be
judged by our decisions that we've made in life.
JOHN: Hey, wouldn't you say we're being
pretty patient too?
DAVID: Well, according -- see, here's the
thing. Remember --
JOHN: I mean sure, you can say well, you c
be patient for 6 months, and you can be patient for a
year and you can be patient -- but you got to admit
when -- "
DAVID: Actually, this --
JOHN: -- you consider what happened on the
28th --
DAVID: Yes, you came --
JOHN: -- we've been very patient.
DAVID: Well, now wait a minute. Now wait
minute. Let's, let's be -- let's, let's go back to a
political matter now, okay?
JOHN: Woo.
DAVID: Let's go back to a political matter
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: If my flag -- -
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- was a national flag --
JOHN: Yes, sir.
DAVID: -- then you would be coming to the7
an
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borders of my country.
JOHN: If your flag was a national flag.
DAVID: Exactly.
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: Okay. If I was under the banner of
God, and I'm going to rise up against your government,
and I'm going to state very clearly that it's now
time ~-
JOHN: But we have laws in this country that
tell you how you can have a national flag in this
country, right? J
DAVID: Right, but that's the thing. But see
the thing of it is is that if I'm going to defy those
laws -- '
JOHN: Uhhuh.
DAVID: - if I'm going to defy those laws --
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: -- then I have to, I have to be able
in my position to be able to back up your resistance
should you chose to use resistance. In other words,
you're saying okay, if Mexico came up and says we want
Texas back.. '
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: And all of a sudden one day there's a
bunch of Mexicans in our front yard, and they've got
these big old guns pointed at us, right? Well, we're

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going to have to, you know, duck and call, and call the
White House and say help, help, you know. And
Clinton's going to have to send the --
JOHN: Yeah, but that's not necessarily the
case here though, is it?
DAVID: Well, now let me explain now.
JOHN: I mean it really isn't. Because we,
we kicked that one around before and --
DAVID: It doesn't need to be. But let me
explain.
JOHN: No.
DAVID: It, it develops into it. Let me
explain how.
JOHN: What, what you're basically saying
though that this is your house, and this is your
property, and this is your land. And it -- and people
have, have tried to offend it. And --
Q DAVID: Well, I'm saying --
JOHN: -- and that's basically what you said.
And I understand that. And I --
- DAVID: The delegation would have been proper
and it would have been perfect. The delegation would
have been, you know, if, if I had been arrested and
stuff like that, and you could have come in and things
like this --
JOHN: Well, somebody had that in mind,

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didn't they?
DAVID: Confiscated, confiscated any and
everything you wanted to confiscate. Hey, I'm guilty.
I need to be punished. Or I'm not guilty. I don't
need to be punished. That was the proper way to do.
JOHN: Well, we can do that --
DAVID: But what happened is --
JOHN: -- we can do that right now if you
want?
DAVID:  Laughing.!
JOHN: You know that.
DAVID: Yeah. But see that's still --
JOHN: The warrants still outstanding.
DAVID: That's where -- yeah, the warrant was
never given. It was never declared what it was.
JOHN: It's still outstanding.
DAVID: Nobody, nobody ever, ever had it in
their hand or nothing. All they had in their hand --
JOHN: If I come marching up that road and
meet you halfway with the warrant in my hand, are you
going to say let's go?
DAVID:  Laughing.!
JOHN: I don't believe.
DAVID: Why not?
JOHN: Well, will you?
DAVID: Well, why not?

JO!-IN:
DAVID:3
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Are you ready?
The thing of it is this now, now
John. Base to reality now.
JOHN:
DAVID:I think you're dodging my question.
No. I think you're dodging the
issue. The fact that people died out of this, not just
people from the federal agency.
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:Well, I know that.
But family members.
I'm pretty aware of that, don't you
think? And it, and it pains me that anybody got hurt.
It really does.
been pretty clear that we can't turn that clock back.
You know, I'd love --
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
saying you're in
saying is --
JOHN:
over'--
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:And I think I -- every one of us has
I know, but you --
-- I'd love to turn it back. -
But now your position is that you're
authority over me. And what I'm
I'm not saying I'm in authority
No, no. The government --
-- you. I'm saying the law is.
Wait. The law of man --
That's right. ~
-- says it's a governing facet over

me.
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
But --
JOHN:
DAVID:
of a violation.
JOHN:
DAVID:12
That's right.
That's I, little I, me.
And over me too.
Wait a minute. Okay. Wait a minute.
As a citizen of this country.
Exactly. Now wait a minute. Because
Yeah.
We put our flag up. And I'm trying
to tell you as nicely as I can --
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
I'm saying is --
JOHN:Yeah.
-- that no, my law --
Uh-huh.
-- is over you. In other words, what
See, I'm having a hard time
comprehending that.
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:I know that. You see just --
I must really be thick, huh?
Well, now here's the thing. In the
days of Hezekiah --
JOHN:
DAVID:Uh-oh.
Now let me, let me tell this story.
The Assyrian armies --

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JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: -- they were going, and they were
taking over all then known lands. And they came up
to - they took all the Judean territory but Jerusalem.
Jerusalem was the last part. And they had less than
2,000 people in Jerusalem.
JOHN: Uh~huh.
DAVID: And the Assyrian army so they, they
brought 185,000 men and encamped around Jerusalem. And
Sennacherib says to Hezekiah, says do not think within
yourself that your God will deliver you out of, out of
the God of our, our God, because our God has given us
all the nations and have overthrown all their gods, you
know? So do not let your God deceive you thinking that
he'll deliver you, okay?
But Hezekiah prayed to God, and Isaiah was on
hand, and he says oh, God, truly the Assyrians have,
have taken all nations and for their, their gods were
no gods. And now he's come to blast me, thee the
living God, the creator of all things  indiscernible!.
You know. And so what happened was is that night after
Hezekiah and.Nahum did what Isaiah said, the angel of
the Lord went out and killed all hundred, you know,
eight-five thousand of them.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: Now the next, the next morning when

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the sun came up there's, there's horses, there's
chariots, and there's a bunch of dead people all over
the place. And this was done because it was
prophesied. It had been foretold by Isaiah before it
came to pass so that all nations would know you don't
mess with the little guy.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: You see? Okay. Now in, in the
situation that we're dealing with, we're dealing with a
man who claims that he can show you the seven seals.
Now that would be blasphemy, because the scriptures
plainly teach us that only the Lamb, only Christ, only
himself can be given the seals and to teach the seals.
True. '
JOHN: Well, you know, today's laws though
evolve from God's law in reality.
DAVID: But the Ten Commandments --
JOHN: Because they were set up, you know, by
the fathers of the country to ensure all of the various
freedoms.
DAVID: Exactly.
JONN: And, and, well, you know, a lot of it
came from English common law. But you, you're the one
that said hey, you believe in this country.
DAVID: I do.
JOHN: And I. and I believe that.

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DAVID: This nation has been blessed above
all of the nations.
JOHN: Yeah. So if I --
DAVID:  Indiscernible.!
JOHN:-- if I told you that hey, there is a
warrant outstanding. And I'm willing to meet you
halfway. And you trust me and I trust you. And we go
down, and we resolve this thing. Hey, it's, it's real
easy, isn't it?
DAVID: That's the way it should have been
done.
JOHN:
time ago --Well, like, like I told you a long
DAVID: Hindsight is 20/20.
JOHN:Yeah. And we're knocking on the door.
And all somebody has to do is open it and there we are,
huh?
H DAVID
JOHN:
door. Not what
DAVID
JOHN =
DAVID
has to be --
JOHN:
19th is a knockNo. What happens is you shot --
No, no. I said we're knocking on the
happened on the 28th. What happened --
Yeah, but that cannot be --
-- on the first --
That's a crime. That's a crime that
What happened on the first through the
on the door and outstretched arms.92
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DAVID: Yes, when you found out you just
couldn't come in and push people over.
JOHN: I didn't find out anything.
DAVID: Well, somebody found out.
JOHN: I'm just telling you that the people
you've been talking to have told you that we are
knocking on the door. And that -- and all the door has
to be --
DAVID: You know who's knocking on your door?
JOHN: Who? Nobody right now.
DAVID: No, no. Someones knocking on your
door.
JOHN: Who?
DAVID: Honestly. 
JOHN: Who?
DAVID: Revelation Christ says behold, I
stand at the door and knock. If any man hear my
voice --
JOHN: You did it, didn't you.
DAVID: Wait a minute. If any --
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: Wait a minute. If any man hear my
voice and open the door, I will come in with him and
sup with him.
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: Not come in and fight, you know.

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He --
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: ~- cometh will I grant him to sit
with me in my throne.
JOHN: Does that mean if I come up there and
knock on a door, you're going to open it and let me sit
down, and then you'll probably leave with me?
DAVID:  Laughing.!
JQHN: NOt.
DAVID: That is a high possibility.
JOHN: Is it really?
DAVID: It really is. Now here's the thing.
JOHN: Now what kind of guarantees do I have.
DAVID: Hey, if you would learn the seals,
you would have the guarantee of God. You see, John,
we're, we're dealing with this kind of lightly, you
know. But it's really a serious matter. I mean, you
know --
JOHN: Well, sure it is. Sure it is.
DAVID: -- I'm facing, I'm facing a very
serious --
JOHN: But we don't have to get bent over it.
And I know it's a serious issue.
DAVID: Well, now wait a minute. Remember,
you know, when this, when I'm, when I'm in the system,
you're going to go home, and you're going to be with

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your wife and your kids. And you're going to have your
dinner. You're going to watch TV. And you're going to
continue your job. I'm going to be without a wife, my
wives, plural.
JOHN: Um-hum. y
DAVID: And my children. And all I'm going
to have is my Father.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: And my mother in heaven.
JOHN: That doesn't mean these people won't
visit you -- v
DAVID: NO, n0, no.
JOHN: -- and you won't have access to them.
DAVID: Visiting, visiting -- remember, my
family -- my children are going to be taken away.
They're going to be divided up according to the, to the
state.
JOHN: No, no, no. They're going to be with
their mothers.
DAVID: Now, now John -- look. Look.
JOHN: Don't you think?
DAVID: Look what the mothers -- do you think
the court is going to award these women who appear to
be foolish women in the sight of the world to have
their children? Now John, let's be more realistic
about this.

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JOHN: There is absolutely no doubt in my
mind that that's exactly what's going to happen.
DAVID: Here, here --
JOHN: There is no doubt in my mind that
that's what's going to happen. Those women will have
the custody of their children. And --
DAVID: Okay, here's --
JOHN: -- and I'm being as truthful as I can
to you. Because to take a child away from a mother is
a pretty tough thing. .
DAVID: Done every day.
JOHN: Well, it's a pretty difficult thing to
do. And I don't see it happening. I really don't see
it happening.
DAVID: Okay. And you know what, our kids
are very good. I'm not doing something --
JOHN: They sure are. I'll tell you the ones
I've seen, literally every one that's come out of
there, and you know --
DAVID: Wait until you see mine.
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: Wait until you see mine.
JOHN: Well, I've seen yours -- some of yours
I guess on the video, huh?
DAVID: Right .
JOHN: But I haven't seen them in person.

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And they're great kids. They are.
DAVID: Okay. Now just what happens if --
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: -- I'm not dealt with in a way that
God would approve. And just what happens --
JOHN: Well, we're getting hypothetical,
aren't we?
DAVID: Now we're getting hypothetical for
your sake. So that --
JOHN: No.
DAVID: -- we don't offend anybody. But just
what happens if all of a sudden --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- the sun and moon and stars is
dark. And I mean the lights that men know put in the,
put into the system on the fourth day of creation all
of a sudden disappear. And the heavens depart in a way
the world has never seen, the astrological, you know,
arena of the universe. And all of a sudden a
manifestation of God is seen. And, and all the world
is going to freak out and be terrified, aren't they? I
mean just think about that. Just like it says in
Revelation. The sixth seal.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: Okay? And all of a sudden it says
the great men and the mighty men, the captains and the,

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the men of war and all of this cry to the rocks and
mountains to fall and to hide them from the face of him
that sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb.
For the day of his wrath has come, and who should be
able to stand. Okay?
In other words, the unbelievable, the
inevitable, the, the impossible. The dimensions of
science, the dimensions of man's mind, the pride of men
is humbled. All the prophets talk about this. Mankind
at large made a terrible mistake. As they were given
liberties of God to exercise law and authority over
their own kind, God in the end of time foretold by the
prophets stated that the coming of his son would be
first as a thief in the night. In other words, it's
something like, you know, you prowl around when you're
a thief in the night, don't you? The sealing time is a
time of prowling around. You do not manifest yourself
openly.'
JOHN: Yeah, but you're basically, you know,
you are saying to me that you don't trust the system.
_ DAVID: No, no, no. What I said was that
when I know -- 
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: -- the ordination of God --
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: -- it doesn't make any difference.

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Pilate wanted to let your Lord go. You know that,
don't you?
JOHN: Yeah, he wanted to wash his hands of
the whole thing, didn't he?
DAVID: Well, what happened was that only
became --
JOHN: And he did.
DAVID: That was only because after several
attempts to let Christ go the mass of the people --
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: The ones who make the votes.
Remember it was, it was a voting system in the days of
Rome too.
JOHN: Well, somewhat a voting system.
DAVID: Exactly. You know, they had power --
JOHN: He, he could have done it though,
couldn't he?
DAVID: Yes, he could have done it --
JOHN: Sure he could have.
DAVID: -- at the risk of his magistrate. I
mean he could have done it. But the thing of it was is
this. He even had another warning in the respect his
wife sent a message she had a dream let this person go.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: Now let me explain something also
what caused the --

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JOHN: Hey, we're all going to be held
accountable for our actions whether they're good or bad
though, aren't we?
DAVID: Well, we're all going to give an
answer.
JOHN: Sure. Sure.
DAVID: Either Christ is on our side as a
lawyer --
JOHN: You know, and we're all going to be
held accountable to God and we're, and we'll, we'll be
accountable to the system. Both.
DAVID: And God's system.
JOHN: I'm sorry?
DAVID: That's the - God's system. The
final system we will all be accountable for.
JOHN: Well, we're all going to be accounted
to this, that system and the system of laws in this
country. Because you know, we believe in them. And,
and it's the law of the land. And so we're going to be
accountable to both. But in the final act, we're going
to be accountable to God.
DAVID: Exactly. _
JOHN: You and me and everyone else.
DAVID: Exactly --
JOHN: And everybody knows that. And if they
don't, they're a fool.

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DAVID: And you know --
JOHN: You know? And, and I don't think that
anybody out here doubts that. And we believe that you
believe it, and everybody in there believes it.
DAVID: Right.
JOHN: But we have to go through our legal
judicial system just as you are going through your
system in there right now.
DAVID: Exactly. Now is, is it legal in your
sight - this is just strictly personal. Is it legal
in your sight to, to send, you know, 300 armed ATF
agents -- I mean excuse me, 150 armed -~
JOHN: I can't comment on that. I can't
comment on that.
DAVID: Well, we know the answer though. We
know the answer.
JOHN: You know. Because I don't have all
the facts. But all -- the only thing I do know, and I
would be a fool to comment on that without having all
the facts. Hey, the facts that I had was a phone call
telling me I was coming here. Those are the facts that
I have. And that's what I had to, to work with and,
and to start communicating with somebody. And, and
that's the bottom line. I want to communicate with
somebody. So you know, I'd be a fool to comment on
that. I really would.

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DAVID: Well, theoretically --
JOHN: And it wouldn't be fair either, would
it?
DAVID: If I was Christ, this nation would be
in big trouble, wouldn't they?
JOHN: It depends how fair you'd be.
DAVID: Oh, well. I'm being very beyond fair
if I was Christ. Because if I was Christ --
JOHN: Because you'd probably be fair.
DAVID: Well, the thing of it is if I, if I
was Christ I'm already showing by my actions I've been
more than fair. You see, in other words, we see
ourselves in a situation to where --
JOHN: You're painting a certain picture for
me that I don't have all of the facts of the issue, you
know?
DAVID: Exactly. In other words, there's
seven seals. I'm trying to tell you --
JOHN: No, I'm not talking about those
issues. I'm talking --
DAVID: That's the credentials though. I
mean I can't be Christ unless I can show you the seven
seals beyond shadows of a doubt. That's just my
credentials. I mean your credentials are in your
wallet. You know, who you are, what you represent.
That's your credentials.

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JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: who gives you your paycheck. Well,
my credentials would not even be noticed or observed.
I mean there's nobody we should see when they're, you
know, that Christ doesn't manifest himself as the great
men of the earth. But the truth --
JOHN: What happens if someone else shows me
the seven seals?
DAVID: Awesome.
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: Then, then I throw my hands up and I
just simply, I just simply -- I'm nothing.
JOHN: Well, if I told you someone else
showed me the seven seals, then what?
DAVID: Then I'd, I'd ask you to show me.
JOHN: See.
DAVID: It would be simple, wouldn't it?
JOHN: And, and we, we can go back to what,
1818 when William Miller went through the same thing
and, and we can get into all sorts of issues like that,
can't we?
DAVID: Now if you want to talk about William
Miller --
JOHN: And what happened there --
DAVID: -- you know, if you want to talk
about William Miller, you're talking about a guy who's

27
trying to uncode the books of Daniel at an each day for
a year prophecy which doesn't even apply to --
JOHN: And he said something was going to
happen in 25 years and --
DAVID: Well, 1844 --
JOHN: Between '43 and '44.
DAVID: Exactly. And what happens --
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: -- is, what happens is the whole --
this is where Adventism hate me. I mean I'm, I'm glad
you brought that up. when I go to Adventist --
JOHN: But that's another example of
someone --
DAVID: Not really. Let me explain.
JOHN: Well, it was an example a hundred
and -- 200 years ago.
DAVID: Misapplied prophecy. Misapplied
prophecy. A mistake. An error.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: It seemed good. It looked good.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: But it didn't pass the test of time.
JOHN: We could be having the same thing,
couldn't we?
DAVID: Yeah -- no. Well, let me explain
again.

.~/
28
JOHN: But we could.
DAVID: Wait. Wait. Wait. Here's the
thing.
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: When Daniel 9 stated about Messiah,
it says therefore from the going forth of the
commandment to restore and build Jerusalem to Messiah
the Prince --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -~ shall be seven weeks. Hey, the
commandment under Cyrus found in Ezra, found in the
Chronicles, that decree was the starting point. Not,
not some decree in the later part of Persia. I mean,
you know, you can switch days around all you want to
and try to get something to apply.
But the keynote is this. When the Book of
Revelation was written, it was written to clearly state
that the next event to be witnessed is the opening of
the seals. Not the papacy, not the Lutheran, not the
Methodist, not the Presbyterian, not the Baptist, not
the William Miller, not the Seventh Day Adventist. I
mean Seventh Day Adventist. I mean as if theyire the
first ones who ever kept the Sabbath? The Seventh Day
Baptists, you know, a long time before Seventh Day
Adventists. You know?
And well, gee, why didn't this people - oh,

29
she's a prophet. Well, hey, wait a minute. All of
these people have denied one foundational doctrine.
John, who came before any of them, stated he was shown
by the spirit what must be hereafter is seven seals. A
revelation of seven seals. Seven seals. Seven seals.
You know? And anyone that oversteps that book is
bitter on the foundation devised by man and not by God.
That's why Revelation was written. That's why Christ
said for I testify unto every man that hears the words
of this prophecy. A
JOHN: Well, who's to say, and I sure don't
know, but who's to say that someone didn't do this in
Indonesia 100 years ago. Someone didn't do this in
China 200 years ago or 1,000 years ago and tell the
people there that they opened the seven seals. Now
who's to say that that didn't happen, and the word
never got out to the rest of us.
V DAVID: Ah, hypothetics  sic!, huh? It's
always, it's always --
JOHN: Well --
' DAVID: -- easier to -- it's always easy to
ask a hard question then to give a simple answer, isn't
it? D
JOHN: It could happen. It could have
happened, couldn't it?
DAVID: Well, actually not. Because here's

the next key.
JOHN:30
I know what you're going to tell me.
You've been talking to Pop.
DAVID: No, that's not it. That's not it.
You see, with someone like yourself --
JOHN: And I told you I didn't think that was
a proper way of addressing him, didn't I?
DAVID-
means Pop.
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
sp.!.
DAVID
JOHN:
have.
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVIDWell, that's what Pope means. It
No, Papa means Pope.
Oh, okay. Papa.
Not Pop. Huh?
All right. You know Latin, huh?
Nemo dot quot non habet  phonetic
Okay. Now --
Means I can't give you what I don't
Yeah. Here's the thing.
Got you, didn't I.
John the Revelator stated to the
churches of Asia, there's the key. _
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: They were gentile churches.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: Specific and direct counsels. Okay,

31
it's for anyone to read. You know, you can interpret
that however you want to. Because it don't make no
difference. It don't apply to you. You're not in
Asia. Okay? You're not in Ephesus. You're not in
Smyrna. You're not in Thyatira. You're not in Sardis.
You know, that's somebody elses letter.
You know, when it's time for spelling bee,
and you know, you're not up there spelling, you don't
worry about it. You worry about the word you're given,
right? You either spell it right, or you spell it
wrong. Okay. But the insight --
JOHN: Yeah, but the word is for all.
DAVID: Exactly. Everyone will learn from
it. I mean if you make a mistake, then people -- it
will be clarified by the teacher, and everyone will --
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: -- realize the answer. Okay, but the
counsels to the churches of Asia very clearly are the
fact that God in regard to that Christian church at
least communicated with him through the prophet John.
John said that, you know, hey, the spirit talked to
him, and the counsels were, were definite and clear.
But what is, becomes the mystery is that when in
Chapter 4 the same angel tells John to come up to
heaven to be shown that which must be hereafter, it
doesn't take a scholar to realize the next events to be

32
brought to view are things that must be hereafter.
Now it would be better not to even be a
Christian. It would be better not to even profess
religion, you know, than to do so and deny the
foundation. '
JOHN: Umhum.
DAVID: You know, it would be better -- you
would find a man more righteous, an agnostic more
righteous just if he didn't believe nothing and just
believed in hey, feed the hungry. Hey, you don't need
the Bible -- 
JOHN: No.
DAVID: -- to realize that if somebody's
hungry, feed him.
JOHN: That's common sense, isn't it?
DAVID: You don't need the Bible to realize
when someone's naked, clothe him.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: This is what Paul is talking about.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: S0 the --
JOHN: But you know, a lot of people could
raise a lot of strong questions or strong statements on
the issue of the seven seals. And a lot of people
could. And, and I could tell you I'm going to bring S0
people up here to raise these issues with you. And.

1
33
and whether you accept them or you deny them, that's
your prerogative.
DAVID: Yeah, but do it. And --
JOHN: And it, and it's solely your
prerogative.
DAVID: -- watch me do my job.
JOHN: I'm sorry.
DAVID: Do that. And watch me do my work,
see?
JOHN: Yeah, but it would be fruitless.
DAVID: No, it wouldn't. It would be like
a --
JOHN: Yeah, it would be totally fruitless,
because you're going to do what you want to do when you
want to do it.
DAVID: Nah, nah, nah, nah. That's not the
way it is. Honestly.
JOHN: But it's the truth.
DAVID: No, it's not. It's what you
 indiscernible! --
JOHN: I mean you've told me basically hey, I
can bring all these humans up to talk to you that I
want to. Dut you're waiting for God to tell you
something.
DAVID: He already did.
JOHN: Yeah, he told you to wait.

34
DAVID: No, that -- we're working on some --
we're doing, we're doing now. We're doing something.
JOHN:
are.
DAVID:
know --
JOHN:
DAVID
weeks.
JOHN:
DAVID
been --
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
White House.
JOHN:Well, I'm glad. I'm glad. I think we
You don't -- you know, you don't
But -- '
-- what I went through these last 2
You don't know what I've been through.
Yeah, but you haven't, you haven't
I've been answering to a God too.
Yeah, I know.
Huh? '
I know. The guy up there in the
You, you think this is easy?
DAVID: No, I imagine it's very frustrating.
And besides, your job is calibrated and then censored
by your performance.
JOHN: Well, not really. H EY. 92
DAVID: Well, really. I mean, you know, you
all, you all were  indiscernible! --
JOHN:I don't get any extra pay.
DAVID: -- in the country.

this?
It's,
somet
antic
that
from
them
read
that 35
JOHN: What do you think, I get extra pay for
DAVID: Yeah.
JOHN: You're wrong.
DAVID: Out of town.
JOHN: That covers my meals, my room. No.
it's the issue involved here. Let me ask you
hing.
DAVID: Sure.
JOHN: Since you really slipped one over on
me tonight, huh? "
DAVID: I love you, John. You know that.
JOHN: I love, I love you, too.
DAVID: Thanks.
JOHN: I really do.
DAVID: I believe it.
JOHN: Let me ask you. What can we
ipate happening tomorrow? And I have some names
I'd like to mention to you that we have letters
some people that I'd love to either get a hold of
today or tomorrow or something and, and either
these letters to them or at least let them know
the people have inquired so I can go back to them.
DAVID: Well, remember tomorrow --
JOHN: What, what --
DAVID: ~- we've already been told tomorrow's

0
_ as
our Sabbath. And you all are going to, you all are
going to let us celebrate our Sabbath tomorrow.
JOHN: You bet. You bet.
DAVID: And then --
JOHN: And we've already, we've already
agreed to that. And we know that the Sabbath ends at
sundown, right?
DAVID: Right.
JOHN: And I know Rita told me that she
expects to come out after sundown.
DAVID: Right.
JOHN: And, and I believe you when you tell
me that. And I believe her when she tells me that.
And I, and I know that you mentioned that -- I guess
you mentioned to, to John earlier today that there
probably would be others.
DAVID: Yes .
JOHN: Do you have any idea who? Or, or how
many?
DAVID: Let me, let me explain. Let me
explain. Right now --
JOHN: Go ahead. Go ahead.
DANID: Right now the individuals --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- who have been learning these
seals.

JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID
not have done.
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID37
Yeah.
You know, we had a problem here.
Uh~huh.
People did things that they should
Hey, I understand that.
Okay, things that I cannot condone.
Okay.
Not -- you know and it, it -
I don't expect you to.
Sounds like I'm a cult leader tyrant.
But no, seriously --
JOHN: But I don't expect you to.
DAVID: -- what happened is, is that this is
something that is, is a trespass against their God.
And they know it. And they admit it.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: And they see that what has been
testified in scripture, they failed.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: You know, and so, and so now what
happens is, is that -~
JOHN:Hey, there's a lot of soul searching
going on, isn't there?
DAVID: Exactly. That's --
JOHN: Yeah.

3 a
DAVID: -- the best way to say it.
JOHN: And there is on both sides, believe
me.
DAVID: And the difference is, is that the
people here are being shown and being reconfirmed in,
in this next phase. The seals -- -
JOHN: Well, what, what made, what made Brad
and Kevin decide to come out today?
DAVID: Well, what happened is, is that
finally --
JOHN: I mean I really don't know. _And, and
I haven't talked to them. And, and I don't know.
That's why I'm asking.
DAVID: Okay, let me explain something. A
lot of people say that, that I'm an alcoholic. I'm a
drunkard. Now that's not true. I never have --
JOHN: That you are?
DAVID: Yeah. Because they've seen me in,
they've seen me in bars before, you know?
JOHN: Well, maybe they'd call me the same
names then.
 DAVID:  Laughing.!
JOHN: But I don't think so. Q
DAVID: Anyway, when you, when you read the
Book of Acts and you see that Paul when he saw the
taverns he rejoiced. God never kept alcoholic

39
beverages away from his people. Now understand
something. A lot of people ~-
JOHN= Probably moderation was the word.
DAVID: The whole key is moderation.
JOHN: Sure. Everything.
DAVID: When it says in Levitical law that to
tide your liquors and strong drinks, that means that
the priesthood gets 10 percent. You know, that
means -
JOHN: Ten percent? ~
DAVID: That means, that means that the
priest has rights, because he's got to serve in the
sanctuary every day. He can't get out there in the
farm and all that kind of stuff. That those who have
trespass offerings and thank offerings and things like
that that when they bring their tide after 3 years make
sure that they've - if they've got liquors and things
like that which is the first fruits of the harvest, you
know, that they, that the priest likes to have a little
drink off-duty --
JOHN: What, what you're telling me is Brad
and Kevin were abusing the system. ~
DAVID: I'm saying that Brad and Kevin and
some other individuals in a time of, of
 indiscernible! --
JOHN: Crisis.

4
92
40
DAVID: -- test they, they abused, they
abused the rights that God has given as limitations.
JOHN: Yeah. Yeah.
DAVID: You see, there's a lot, a lot of
vices. There's people that have no control of their
appetite.
JOHN: Well, do you think they just may have
been weak? Or --
DAVID: Isn't that, isn't that the dilemma of
all mankind?
JOHN: Well --
DAVID: 6,000 years, now come on. You just
can't destroy the world --
JOHN: Whether it was under a period of
stress, though? 
DAVID: Under a period of stress.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: And it was under a period of the fact
that, that somebody who is given the responsibility to,
to take, to take these alcohols --
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: -- you see which, which had never
been opened. They'd been, they'd been here for a long,
long time. See, a strong drink and strong liquor is,
is municipal purposes strictly. You see?
JOHN: Uh-huh.

1  41
DAVID: Like I said, we've always, we've
always tried to stay away from, from -- well, like for
instance, we don't do drugs, you know?
JOHN: Um~hum.
DAVID: A lot of young people that I have
gone around and, and dealt with, you know, is, are
into, into marijuana smoking and things like that.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: Well, that's one of the things. You
just can't go into the world and take away the things
that the world considers to be good and comfortable.
You know, one of the biggest arguments is well, doesn't
the Bible say that herbs are for God?
JOHN: Sure. Sure.
DAVID: You know. But you have to explain
look, herbs for the healing of the body. Herbs for the
municipal purposes.
_ JOHN: And we know what's right and wrong.
DAVID: And we know what's right -- anything
that takes away from the perceptions of the mind --
JOHN: Sure.
' DAVID: -- to be normal in the system of
humanity is wrong. That's just the way it is. When,
when Aaron's sons tried to officiate in the priesthood
after drinking wine, they were struck dead.
JOHN: Well, what you're trying to tell me is

42
there are some others in there that have abused the
system also?
DAVID: I'm trying to say that when
individuals turn away from God and look to the natural
means of their own self, and they go and, and try to
get a liquid courage --
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: - I'm saying that they've defeated
their purpose in serving God.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: Such a person like that could
endanger your lives, endanger our
JOHN: Yeah.lives, you know.
DAVID: And, and the thing of it is if
somebody like that had a firearm or something like
that --
JOHN: Just aggravate asituation.
DAVID: Yeah. A firearm or something like
that.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: In, in the type
in, we need the highest soberness
JDHN: You bet.
DAVID: I mean I, I was
everything, but I ~~ not a, not aof situation we're
we can have.
bleeding and
-- I have like I said
not, not an ounce, not -- no liquor touched my lips,

43
you know. And the thing like this is that it may seem,
it may seem like a simple thing to the world. But it's
not to God.
You know, abuse in anything is a
transgression of the principles of life which is God's
law, love. Okay? And so, you know, these are things
which point blank Micah and the prophecies foretell not
to do. Especially in that last work that God does
before he manifests his glory to all nations. Before
the restitution of Israel, Zion. Not the Israel of the
flesh. Not those who are going back right now who are
no different than the ones who were kicked out a long
time ago.
You know, you can't, you can't -- God's not
going to overthrow a nation for their sins and put back
into it a people doing the same sins. You know, you
don't solve any problems.
' JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: You know, you don't take away bad,
and put bad back and say well, I've got something good.
It doesn't work that way. So you know, the heart --
the kingdom of God must first be within you. You've
got to come to an understanding. Hosea says God
desires not sacrifice but the knowledge of God more
than sacrifice and burnt offerings.
JOHN: Well, you have --

44
DAVID:  Indiscernible! the truth.
JOHN: -- you have some others in there that
have fallen into that same category?
DAVID: Exactly.
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: And at the, at the time of the
beginning of our situation --
JOHN: Well --
DAVID: -- when God told me to wait --
JOHN: Sure .
DAVID: -- all of a sudden what happens is,
is that once these people get involved in the system,
you know, everything they've learned is going to be
tested. Everything they've learned is going to be
tried.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: You know, not that you're playing the
devil's advocate, but because you and the system that
you're familiar with is totally ignorant of the fears
that these people may come across. They have knowledge
of a pending judgment, of a righteousness which, you
know, that you are ignorant of. Not that, not that
you're stupid or anything. You just don't know
anything about it.
JOHN: I'm not a jerk either, huh?
DAVID: Well, no. I don't think you're a

I
jerk. I think
JOHN:
out here is tho
DAVID
JOHN:
too.
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
in the beginnin
JOHN:
DAVID
John 3 either.
JOHN:
DAVID
are non-believe
with people tha
JOHN:
DAVID
already has a p
JOHN:
with them, isn'
DAVID
up the defenses
JOHN:
DAVID' 45
that you're intelligent --
We've already figured out one of them
ugh, huh?
: Well, I'm saying that --
We, we give him the zing about that
: You're -- well --
But we're trying.
: The guy, Dick, was kind of, you know,
g -- I mean not Dick.
John 3.
: No, I don't find no problem with
Well, somebody did initially.
: I can, I can deal with people that
rs in God far better than I can deal
t already know God.
Sure.
: Someone who already knows God,
erception --
It's kind of hard to cross that bridge
t it? A
: It's hard, because they already put
Sure.
: You know. But if -- but the thing of

46
it is --
JOHN: Well, a lot of people have false
knowledge too.
DAVID: Incomplete.
JOHN: Yeah. Yeah.
DAVID: See the cross -- okay, let me explain
again so you can understand where I'm coming from. The
cross was not against man. It was against Satan.
Satan had used the medium of the serpent in the Garden
of Eden to deceive Eve, right? A
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: Satan usurped the kingdom from man,
didn't he?
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: And brought man under subjection to
deception. But God promised anonymity. God promised a
conscience. God promised in dwelling working of the
spirit of conscience so that men might have somewhat to
fight against this. Otherwise certain people don't
think that any other people's wrong. I mean you got,
you got cannibals in the world. You know, it's being
dissolved. But you see there's cannibals in the world.
You got -- -  V
JOHN: They don't think they're doing
anything wrong.
DAVID: Exactly. Exactly.

47
JOHN: They may be worshipping a false idol
or a false god, but not in their mind.
DAVID: Not in their mind. In their mind,
they're worshipping the God they know.
JOHN: Oh, sure.
DAVID: The, the rain comes up for them. The
sun comes up. The, the clouds --
JOHN: Hey --
DAVID: -- in a nation  indiscernible! --
JOHN: -- you got Eskimos doing the same
thing, don't you? ~
DAVID: Exactly. Eating raw meat, you know.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: People eat pork every day. I mean
they're ignorant of the God of Moses.
JOHN: But they're not bad people
necessarily.
DAVID: They cannot be judged as bad, because
they've --
JOHN: No.
DAVID: -- not had the light or reasoning to
discern between right and wrong. Now remember, in the
days of Moses, you know, the whole world was in
darkness. Pharaoh, Pharaoh wasn't condemned for being
Pharaoh. Sure he thought he was God. But --
JOHN: I'm not going to condemn you for

48getting away with this this evening either.
DAVID: Well, I know. But we're both
learning something.
JOHN: And we're friends.
DAVID: Yeah, we're friends. I call you my
friend. Because you're tolerating me. You know, like
Paul says, you know, bear with my frivolity just a bit.
You know, let me be a fool for a minute.
JOHN: Hey.
DAVID: Okay. So, so the thing of it is ~-
the thing about Pharaoh is God worked very delicately
with Pharaoh. You know, here comes this shepherd guy
and, you know, 80 years old. Walks into the, into the
kingdom and, and begins to talk with the elders of
Israel saying the Lord of God of thy fathers, Abraham,
Isaac and Jacob, has spoken to me. And he's going to
deliver you. Just like God had promised Abraham after
400 years they would be brought out of this land of
Egypt.
Okay, so they go to Pharaoh. And Pharaoh's
just getting, is just laughing and, you know, what is,
what is this? You know, who sent you? Well, God had
already told Moses to answer that question with I am
sent me. Now Moses has a clear perception that God
that he talked to in the burning bush declared himself
to be I am. I am that I am, right? When they shall

49
say --
JOHN: Right .
DAVID: -- who sent you, say I am sent me.
Now but here this Moses is standing before Pharaoh, and
Pharaoh questions by what authority he's come to him.
Moses says I am sent me. What did that look like to
Moses -- I mean to, to Pharaoh? He's being a wiseguy,
right?
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: You know, Pharaoh in all of his
splendor and grandeur, you know, becomes - hey, here's
this, here's this shepherd guy saying I am sent me.
Let my people go. Who's this -- this guy's a madman.
Well, so God began to very cautiously work in degrees
to where whose word would stand? Would it be Pharaoh's
word? Would it be Mosess word?
well, Moses says, you know, thus shall happen
to you. Thus shall happen to you. The manifestations
were shown. The plagues came. And finally, Pharaoh
had to get on his knees, you know. That was all done
in mercy.
But the king had a hard problem with taking
the facts. 'Just like the same spirit is in man in
every generation. In the days of Christ, hey, the
manifestations were so clear not in hurting people, not
in destroying property and all that, but in mercy and

_¢truth. And yet the Sanhedrin
couldn't see the facts. They
Because it crossed the grains
I mean this guy was
They were saying hey, all theSO
and the Pharisees
just could not see.
of their own pride.
taking people after him.
nation's falling after
him. We got to stop this. It's bad for business.
Christ was killed because he was bad for business. No
people in the synagogues on the Sabbath. They're all
out on the countryside listening to sermons for free.
No, no tides coming in.
Hey, the guy-goes, the guy goes to Jack in
the Box and, and carries 5,000 people with him, and the
guys inside, who this guy - 5,000. We're going to
make big money today. He orders one, one Jack in the
Box burger, one milkshake and orders 5,000 cups. You
know, the guy pays, gets paidfor one burger and, and
one, one milkshake and 5,000 cups, and the guy goes out
and feeds 5,000 and walks off, you know? That's bad
for business. You see what I'm saying?
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: And so that kind of gift the world
did not want that kind of knowledge, that kind of
technology. "A man from beyond the stars came to the
world, came to be born of a virgin, came to manifest
the powers beyond this world.And the world was making
a buck. And it didn't want it as of yet. Man loves --

JOHN: That
talking to some peopl
DAVID: No,
that as we build upon
who have been blessed
knowledge of the keys
JOHN: Yes.
DAVID: --
voice and make the Bible a
understand. You see,
miracle of this generation51
flew right by me asking you about
e in there.
so what I'm saying is I'm saying
this we're saying that the people
with the symbolic codes, the
that, that harmonize the prophetic
very plain book to
they begin to realize that the
is none other but the fact
that knowledge and technology has allowed the Bible to
be printed so that everyone has one. You know, that's
awesome. The printing press, the ability to -- you
know, you can go out and buy one for a couple of bucks.
Everybody's got it. But the miracle is nobody really
understands it.
Of course, everyone's got an opinion. And
that's perfectly all right. Until the subject matters
contained in the seven seals. And that's where I come
in. And I sit down with a person after 2 hours.
Following through their own Scripture they begin to see
a picture.' Oh, complete. Ah, something they never saw
before. which is exactly what Isaiah 48 says, this
time I will show theenew things, even hidden things,
and thou didst not know them. A prophecy being

O 
52
fulfilled. People living in the unfolding of the
scroll. Time is at hand.
Now so the people who are coming out now are
coming out because in the first situation they were
given --
that cameJOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: -- they failed.
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: And so now they can't -~
JOHN: Well, is that true for the first women
out too?  '
DAVID: Exactly.
JOHN: Really?
DAVID: Exactly. But the thing of it was --
JOHN: I just, I just felt that it was
because of their age and a lot of other things that --
DAVID: Well, no, no, no. Oh, you mean --
you see, Catherine -- oh, no. Catherine and, and
Margaret like I say, they had been students of
Scripture
had, they
they camefor years.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: And when they met me -- .
JOHN: It's kind of hard to feel that they
had failed in there.
DAVID: No. You see, in regards when, when
to me I explained to them, I said look. You

S3
know, Catherine, you know --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- Margaret, I says, you know, this
is something to where, you know, you're not really
thoroughly informed on every degree of this. It's just
like the older ladies that live on the outside of town
and stuff like that, you know?
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: I mean there's a certain age where
humanity basically starts digressing.
JOHN: Umhum.
DAVID: You know, we, we start forgetting our
phone number and our kids names.
JOHN: Don't tell me  I can understand that
in your situation but not in mine.
DAVID: Well, what --
JOHN: And I'm not talking phone numbers.
DAVID: Right .
JOHN: If I had that many, I'd just have to
go by numbers.
DAVID: No, I'm, I'm not talking about kids.
I'm talking about at a certain age. I'm not that age
yet. I'm not, you know - '
JOHN: Say remember --
DAVID: I'm just 33. Remember that.
JOHN: -- the mind's the first thing to go.

S4
DAVID: Right. And this is just something,
this is just part of the physiological being of man,
you know.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: But the thing of it is that, you
know, they're -- they have more than proven in, in the
years of their struggle to know truth that truth has
come, and they've seen a light above any light they've
ever seen. They are confirmed. They know in their
heart what they've been shown. And you know, they
just  they're just side issues. I mean, you know --
JOHN= Yeah.
DAVID: -- there is, there's no necessity for
them to, to be tested any longer. Goodness, I mean you
know, there comes a time when God finally says hey,
give them the reward. You know, seal them. They have
the seal of the living God.
JOHN: Well, wouldn't you feel the same way
about somebody that was, that, you know, was really
hurt in there too? That they would - they should not
come out because they're weak people, but come out
because it may save their life?
DAVID: Well, now the thing of it is everyone
is --
JOHN: And, and I'm not trying to put a guilt
trip on you. I'm just saying --

S5
DAVID: No, no. I, you know, I wouldn't
allow that. Like I said --
JOHN: No, I'm not. I'm just saying hey,
would you take the same perspective there as you would
as your own personal feeling. Not saying you're going
to force somebody to do something or anything else.
But your own personal feeling.
DAVID: That's why I confronted the
individuals. I said now listen.
JOHN: Yeah. .
DAVID: I said, you know, I'm waiting here.
I -- we got to, got to deal with the situation.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: And I said, you know, I'm going to be
all right. And you know, I was -- because like I said
I was told - '
JOHN: God's will be done.
, DAVID: And the thing of it is like I say,
you know, hey, I mean you know, I heal fast.
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: And so have they. You know, Judy's
finger --
JOHN: Well, you just didn't heal as fast as
you thought you were going to heal, did you?
DAVID: Well, the thing of it is --
JOHN: I mean you tried to push it a little

' J
56
too fast.
DAVID: well, naturally. But the thing of it
is is that still, nonetheless. I mean it's, it's
great. You know --
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: -- I want to come out here dancing,
you know. And there's no, no problem with that.
JOHN: Well, you want to come out walking
anyhow.
DAVID: At least. Okay. So, so the point of
it is, is that, you know, the seals. You don't know
what they are. We do.
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: And you know, yes, we're in --
JOHN: No, but you basically told people
that, that you thought probably needed some medical
attention that they ought -- they've got to make up
their own mind what they want to do.
DAVID: Oh, exactly. Exactly. Because first
of all --
JOHN: And is, is --
DAVID: -- you know, are they going to be
afraid of -- they're terrified of you anyway.
JOHN: Well, I'm sure they are.
DAVID: I mean, you know, they don't, they
don't --1

57
JOHN: Hey, they've just been through an
experience that, that you can't explain to anybody
else.
DAVID: Yeah. I mean and though you teach
them for 4 or S years about it.
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: You know, and the thing of it is, the
thing of it is when it does come, hey, 3-1/2 years the
disciples were taught over and over again Christ would
be betrayed. He'd be crucified.
' JOHN: Um-hum;
DAVID: And all of a sudden when it
happened --  screaming! -- they all ran.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: I mean reality -- look, experience
never, never can be compared to the book learning.
JOHN: Uh-uh.
' DAVID: Ain't no matter what you do. Okay,
so --
JOHN: Well --
_ DAVID: -- so we both agree on that. I mean
you can go ahead and read all the manuals about police
work and, and how to, and how to incarcerate a criminal
and all that. But when you're on, when you're -- the
first time when you put handcuffs on somebody, the
first time when you're on the beat and you're in1

58
action, your heart is up in your throat. It's just the
facts.
JOHN: Hey, the anxiety level is up and --
 End of Tape #139!
I

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPE #140
3/19/93
11:03 P.M. - 11:50 P.M.

| I/
2
 Tape 140!
DAVID: -- the adrenaline flow. You know, he
may had no intention to, to fire that gun. I mean they
all had their guns drawn. I mean it was, you know why.
You know, but the thing of it was is that, you know, I
thought for sure, you know, I'm standing right in the
doorway -- you know, no one's going to fire. And so,
you know, I, I could understand on, on the news where
it says yeah, 'cause you know, they took this on film.
You know, the guys across the street, they were taking
it on film. You know, naturally maybe he just had the
trigger held a little bit too tight, you know? Locked
and cocked and -- but hey, you know. I survived.
Somebody else didn't. But you know, they're in the
hands of God.
JOHN: Yeah. I
DAVID: And so, you know, now the situation
is, is that, you know, I'm telling people, saying now
look.
JOHN: Hey --
DAVID: Our problem --
JQHN: -- you're going to have -- two sides
are going to come out someday as far as what actually
happened.
DAVID: Exactly. And so, you know, how many
Christians have died in times past --

JOHN:i
_/
3
SUIE .
DAVID: -- at the hand of enemies, and they
say Father, lay not this to their charge. You know,
forgive them.
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: You know, the stoning of Stephen.
The people that is killing him he's saying hey, you
know, don't lay it to their charge. You know, please.
JOHN:
for a lotHey, people on both sides are looking
of forgiveness, aren't they? _
DAVID: Well, hopefully. That's what causes
the --
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: -- the perfection of God to endure.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: Now when we was talking about --
JOHN: Let me ask you something too. Other
than yourself, Judy's getting a little better you
think?
DAVID:
everything.
JOHN:
DAVID
finger.
JOHN:
DAVID:Oh, yeah. The swelling went down and
Did it? I mean that -- ~
She put a, she put a splint on her
-- that color is not like it was?
Well, you want, you want a video of

13
 /
it?
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: It's amazing.
JOHN: Sure. But I know Scott was
about his hand more than anything else. And
and David I guess had one in the seat of his
DAVID: A little shrapnel, right.
JOHN: Yeah. That's it? We don't
other serious medical problems that, that we
concerned about out here?
DAVID: No.
JOHN: Good.
DAVID: That's it.
JOHN: Good. Good.
DAVID: S0 --concerned
then --
pants.
have any
should be
JOHN: That's great. Let me, let me pass
something by you. I've talked to Scott before. But
we've got some other, other information that
for him as well as Sita, okay? We got some,came in
some mail
and I'd like to pass it on to them. David's, David's
mother, David Thibodeau's mother --
DAVID: Uh-huh.
JOHN: -- sent something in here. And even
though I talked to David the other day and told him
that his mother called and I, and I saw his mother on
TV.

| E
1
S
DAVID: She's an activist, isn't she?
 Laughing.!
JOHN: Hey. I don't, I don't have a problem
with that one bit. If my, my youngster was in there
I'd feel the same way, wouldn't you?
DAVID: Yeah, he - she's, she's - never
mind. Go ahead.
JOHN: Hey. She's just a loving mother is
what she is. And Sandra Hardial, H-A-RD-I-A-L.
DAVID: Sandra who?
JOHN: Well, I've got Sandra H-A-R-D-I-A-L.
I got a Lloyd Hardial called from Manchester, England
to inquire about Sandra Hardial. Sandra Hardial's
mother, Una Hardial, sends her wishes and et cetera, et
cetera, et cetera.
DAVID: Do we know a Sandra Hardial, Rachel?
Never heard of that name.
JOHN: Well, she's supposed to be in there.
H-A --
DAVID: I don't, I don't think so.
2
-' JOHN: All I can tell you is hey, I'm not,
I'm not making up what I got here. -'
DAVID: NO.
JOHN: Well, it -- can you check on it?
DAVID: Yeah, but I'm pretty sure there's
nobody here by that name.

6
1 JOHN: Really?
2 DAVID: Definitely.
3 JOHN: The only thing I can tell you is --
4 DAVID: We had people we actually --
S JOHN: I get things sent to me that hey, this
6 thing, this thing came from a, from --
7 DAVID: England.
8 JOHN: -- Manchester, England.
9 DAVID: Right.
10 JOHN: I got --
11 DAVID: Maybe they think they're over here.
12 There's a lot of people -- like I say, we got a lot of
13 members all around the world. Maybe they think
14 they're --
1S JOHN: What about Melissa Morrison? She
16 should be a youngster.
17 DAVID: Is Melissa?
18 JOHN: I think a youngster from the, the --
19 DAVID: Yeah. That's Rose's, that's Rose's
20 daughter.
21 JOHN: I don't know. All I have is the
22 British Vice Consul contacted us that her grandmother
23 had a message, and I would pass that on.
24 DAVID: Okay, yeah. Well, she's here.
25 JOHN: She's a youngster?
DAVID: That's, that's little Melissa. That
_»

was the one that
JOHN:
DAVID:
out and -- that
the milk and all
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
her. And I got
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
But it's a happy
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
Vega. But I got7
was going to come out and --
I don't know.
Right. See, she was going to come
s when we first had the problems with
that.
Okay. Okay.
The first time.
Okay. Well, anyhow, got a message for
one for my friend, Sherri.
Jewell?
Yeah. Yeah. It's not --
She's a schoolteacher.
Yeah, it's not Happy Birthday, either.
message, okay?
Okay.
And Marguerita Vega.
Right.
We got another message for Marguerita
a letter from David Thibodeau's mother
that she said could be opened and read to him. So I'd
be happy to do t
DAVID:
JOHN:
can you check on
is there?
DAVID:hat.
Okay. -
But the Sonobes, David Thibodeau, and
Sandra Hardial to see if such a person
Yeah, I'm almost positive --

8
JOHN: And either, you know, you, Steven,
somebody tell me yes, no, whatever. Or if you have any
idea if she was there and may have left where we can
maybe try and run her down.
DAVID: Could be possible. Hardial.
JOHN: That's all I have -- well, I can give
you the name of the - I've got Lloyd Hardial called
from Manchester inquiring about Sandra. Sandra's
mother, U-N-A Hardial and then gives a message. And
that's all I have. And then I have messages for the
Sonobes and David and Marguerita and Sherri and
Melissa. And if any of them want to talk to me
tonight, I'll be here. '
DAVID: It's almost like Talknet.
 Laughing.!
JOHN:  Laughing.! Hey. I hope you don't
think of it that way.
DAVID: Well, no. You know, you all guys can
oratate  sic! pretty good most of you. But you got one
of the best, you know, oratating voices of all the
others. And it's -- well, I guess it's all in --
that's what you get paid for. You got to be able to
talk in a way that very clear, very, very subtle, very
controlled, very --
JOHN: Well --
DAVID: -- it's a blessing, you know --

oratation is a -- I never had it, you know. I --
JOHN:Oh, no. You, you don't have the gift
of, of oratation, huh?
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVIDNo, you know my voice.
Sure.
Hickish.
Persuasive.
No, it's hickish. It, it sounds --
it's hickish. I, I've got this drawl, this --
JOHN: You want to hear hickish? Come on
down to south Louisiana.
native Louisianan orDAVID: I've been there.
JOHN:
DAVID: So
JOHN: Laughing.!
are you actually, you actually a
No, no. Uh-uh. I've been there for
over 20 years. But I'm not a native.
there or -DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:They got a FBI headquarters down
We have offices all over the country.
Right. I understand.
Yeah. Yeah.
Huh.
Love the food. Love the people.
Eat those crawdads, huh?
They're really good people once you

10
get to know them.
DAVID: Eat those crayfish, right?
JOHN: They're crawfish.
DAVID: Crawfish, exactly.
JOHN: And I'm missing them I might add.
It's that season.
DAVID: What do you eat --
JOHN: You probably use them for bait up
here, don't you?
DAVID: Well --
JOHN:  Laughing.! Tell the truth.
DAVID: Some -- well not -- I usually use
plastic worms and spinner baits myself.
JOHN: Let me ask you, have you got around to
sucking the heads on a crawfish yet?
DAVID: No, I, I --
JOHN: Well, you come on down to south
Louisiana, and I'll show you what that's all about.
DAVID: You know I'm not going nowhere after
this. Come on.  Laughing.!
JOHN: You never know where you're going to
end up. h
DAVID: Yeah, I do.
JOHN: Do you?
DAVID: I do.
JOHN: You never know.

ll
DAVID: I d0.
JOHN: And wherever it may be --
DAVID: I'm going home.
JOHN: Let me tell you, wherever it may be,
you may have a lot of influence on a lot of people.
You know you've already had a lot of influence on a lot
of people.
DAVID: Not really. It's been, it's, I --
you know, you will notice that I, I pick a prime select
-- look, look at 2,000 years ago.
JOHN: Listen. You just told me you're going
home.
DAVID: That's right.
JOHN: What do you mean?
DAVID: Well, I mean I'm going home.
Wherever home is. I'm going home.
JOHN: Well, where are you right now?
DAVID: Well, I'm, I'm passing through here.
JOHN: You're passing through?
DAVID: This is not my home. Remember that
star that's coming? Remember that guitar behind it?
JOHN: Yeah, but you said it's traveling kind
of slow. 
DAVID: No. It's speeding up. Like I said,
as you get out farther into space, it has an illusion
effect. Man's, man's ability to measure --

12
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- speed and all that is inadequate.
JOHN: Well --
DAVID: He's traveled to --
JOHN: You said you're going home. We're all
going someplace someday, aren't we?
DAVID: Well, sooner than what people
realize.
JOHN: Who -- we are? All of us?
DAVID: Why, everybody.
JOHN: Well, I hope I don't go too soon. Not
that it, not that it won't be a great event. You know,
as being at many funerals people are sorrowful, yet we
know they shouldn't be because of where their soul's
going, where their body's going, etc. Yet there's
different beliefs in that. And some believe that the,
the soul is going to stay with their body in the ground
until there's a --
DAVID: Resurrection day.
JOHN: - second coming, right? And, and
that's, that's their beliefs. And I'm not going to
argue that with them. But when you say that you're
going home, I want -- it concerns me when you tell me
this that you've got something else in mind maybe.
DAVID: Not, not -
JOHN: As opposed to leading your flock out

of there.
DAVID:
JOHN:13
Not suicide.
Well, you're going home then just like
the rest of us are going home, right?
DAVID:
JOHN:
kind of things.
DAVID:@m,mm--
I don't, I don't like to hear those
No, now John, see, you're jumping to
conclusions. You're, you're just being, you know,
don't be spastic
JOHN:in this. _Let's keep our heads --
Well, I'm -- the last thing I'm going
to do is get spastic. But --
DAVID:
JOHN:
going home --
DAVID:
JOHN: Laughing.! Okay.
-- when I hear you tell me you're
You see --
-- it makes me concerned. And I just
want to clarify it.
DAVID:
stated,
JOHN:
DAVID:
JONN:
DAVID:
Hosea to Isre --
knowledge I willyou know.Okay. Okay, look. Like I, like I
Sure.
For lack of knowledge, people perish
Uh-huh.
And that's why Hosea -- God says to
he says because thou hast rejected
reject thee.

14
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: Thou shallt be no priest unto me.
Remember the seven seals -- always look at the theory
of it. Even if it's just a game. Let's just --
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: -- pretend -- let's pretend the Bible
is just a game that the Jews made up, okay? The Jews
sat down, they wrote a bunch of statements, you know.
And you know, it was only four or five of them. So
they, they could repeat the statements several
different times, right? And they just simply said
well, we're going to call this Matthew. We're going to
call this Mark. We're going to call this Luke. We're
going to call this John.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: We're going to call this Jeremiah.
we're going to call this book Ezekiel. Now in the end
of this book, there's going to be a little
categorization, a little crossword puzzle. And it's
going to be called name that seal. And the answer is
found --
JOHN: Well, that's different. ~
DAVID: And the answer is found, the answers
to these seals in that crossword puzzle is found in the
prophets. See? So that -- it becomes a nice little
game. And I'm willing to play this game with any --

JOHN:
game though.
DAVID:
say. In case of infidelity --
JOHN:
just --
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID:
without being offended.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: Because it's a
Men's minds will judge them. In
a game, but I have a smile on my
challenge.
' JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: Because I know
where I came from. I know where
and I know I'd like to see why.
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:15
Yeah, but I don't, I don't call it a
Yeah, but see this is just like I
And you don't either really. You're
Well, remember --
-- throwing a for instance out here.
Remember I'm saying for instance.
That way people can understand
life and death game.
other words, it may be
face when I offer that
who I am. I know
I'm going. I know how
Do you know when? Do you know when?
Oh, I know when. Yes.
You don't want to tell me, do you?
Sure. Got a Bible?
Well, tell, tell me.

92
16
DAVID: You got a Bible?
JOHN:  Laughing.!
DAVID:l Okay, let me just say this.
JOHN: Give me a break.
DAVID: Okay, I'll give you a break. I'll
just give you a hint then. I'll give you a clue.
Okay? Now in the Book of Daniel, Daniel was on the
Babylonian kingdom. Daniel explained to the King
Nebuchadnezzar that the empires would rise
consecutively.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: The head of gold would be Babylon.
Daniel saw in, in the image --
JOHN: I know.
DAVID: Okay. The arms would be Medepersia
 phonetic sp.!, arms of silver.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: The belly be brass be Grecia,
Alexander's kingdom. Okay, and afterwards there come
Rome, legs of iron. But finally this iron, Rome, would
be mingled amongst clay, weaker nations. Partly
strong, partly broken. That's Europe. ~
Joan: Um-hum.
DAVID: Okay? Daniel says thou sawest behold
a stone was cut out of a mountain without hands, which
smote the image of the feet. Therefore was the iron,

17
the clay, the silver, the brass, the gold became as
the, you know, some are threshing -- well the chaff of
the -- some are threshing floors. And it blew away.
They're gone. You know. Man was given an opportunity.
Man had his empire. Man had his chance to prove
something. He proved nothing.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: And it says, you know, that this is
the way it will be. In the days of these kings, this
rock will hit it. Now we know God's the rock in
heaven. Okay? That's the only stone that can make all
the nations fall, right? Only God can bring this world
to an end. Okay, now here's the thing. In Daniel 7,
Daniel sees another vision. He sees the same empires
portrayed as four beasts. So the first beast was like
a lion, had his eagles wings.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: I beheld this beast till the wings
were plucked. And it was lifted up from the earth,
made to stand upright like a man, and a man's heart was
given to it. The second beast was like a bear, had
three ribs in the mount and lifted up on one side. And
the meat was given to it. And the ribs says devour
much flesh.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: The third beast was like a leopard.

18
It had four heads, the wings of a fowl. Dominion was
given to it. But the fourth beast was dreadful and
terrible, strong exceedingly. Had great iron teeth and
brake in pieces and stamped the residue with the feet
and devoured the rest. So you are what you eat. The
fourth beast is nondescript. It just says that it
devoured the other beasts. It ate them up. And it
says, you know, it had 10 horns. Okay?
Now the vision, the prophet Daniel inquires
about the meaning of this. He saw that another horn
rose up out of these 10 horns and took three of the
horns away making 8. Had 10 horns, a little horn rose
up. It had eyes of a man, a mouth speaking great
things, and took out 10 -- 3 of the horns making 8.
All right? And it says this horn blasphemed God,
blasphemed his temple. You know, this horn made war
with the saints. So what we're looking at is we're
looking at a power that makes war with something to do
with God, Daniel says. The next vision that Daniel
talks about --
JOHN: What was the significance of the
eight? _
DAVID: Well, what happens is is that we have
10 horns in the head.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: Okay?

19
JOHN: And I understand what you said after
that.
DAVID: And what happens is another horn
comes up making 11.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: Before whom three of --
JOHN: And takes away two.
DAVID: -- the first horns fell.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: Plucked them out by the roots.
JOHN: Sure. J I
DAVID: Making eight horns. Okay? Now the
question is this power, this little horn power which
was more stout than his fellows had a mouth speaking
great things. But it says it speaks blasphemies
against God. And it makes war against the saints.
Okay? Until the Ancient of Days comes. The Ancient of
Days comes whose garment was white as snow and hair as
wool, he came. And the thrones were cast down. In
other words, these beasts represent empires that will
rule. And the thrones being cast down, all political
power is thrown down by the Ancient of Days. The same
as Daniel 2:44. The rock gets involved. The rock
comes and vindicates something. Now it says that this
little horn head power will rise up against the prince.
And it says I beheld the night visions, behold, when

20
the Ancient of Days said the books were opened and the
judgment was set. I saw thousands stand before him and
ten thousand, ten thousand stood before him. The
judgment was set. The books were opened.
JOHN: And what's the bottom line?
DAVID: Well, the bottom line is --
JOHN: As far as the when?
DAVID: The bottom line is, is that when the
books are opened --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: - it says then I beheld because of
the words of the, of the little horn.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: That the beast was slain. In other
words, what he said --
JOHN: But you said you've already opened the
books to many of the people.
DAVID: Now wait a minute. Let me, let me
finish now. Let's get this straight in our minds.
JOHN: Go ahead. Go ahead.
DAVID: When the books are opened in the
judiciary it's on earth. The Ancient of Days comes to
earth. ' D
JOHN: The what in the judiciaries of earth?
DAVID: The, the Father will come, the
Ancient of Days. He's called the Ancient of Days.

21
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: He comes to earth --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- and throws down the political
power of all nations.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: And then the books will be opened.
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: In other words, all nations will have
to stand before him --
JOHN: Uh-huhi
DAVID: -- and the books that are opened are
the books of the Bible.
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: Then Daniel says I beheld because of
the words that the horn spake that the beast was slain
and his body destroyed, and given to the burnino flame.
' JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: In other words, his words were not in
harmony with those books. In other words, the books,
the prophets, the books, the prophets, said something
totally opposite than what this little horn said
according to the fourth beast. Now the first beast,
the lion, was Babylon. The second beast, the bear, was
Medepersia.
JOHN: Umhum.

22
DAVID: The third beast, the leopard, was
Grecia. And the fourth beast, the nondescript beast,
that ate up all the other beasts and became composite
and compiled all the other nations together as one, you
know, universal? It had the little horn head power
that spake blasphemies against God. In other words, it
didn't go by the books. But when the Ancient of Days
came --
JOHN: Is this the same horn that we talk
about in the 75th Psalm?
DAVID: Well, no. In the 75th Psalm, all the
horns which be cut off, it's dealing with what that
horn personifies in that man's power comes through his
mind and his ability to enforce his mind by the numbers
of his procreation.
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: Nations emerge -- if you don't win in
the bedroom, son, you're not going to win on the
battlefield. You see? It's a principle. All the
Eastern cultures revolves around it. You know, love
and war. Everything --
JOHN: Okay, well, if, if God revealed His
answer to you, when will you reveal the answer to me?
DAVID: Well, let me develop it a little bit
more.
JOHN: Okay.

u
23
DAVID: We got a picture. It's in the
solution now. It's coming through, okay?
JOHN: All right.
DAVID: Now what happens is is that Daniel --
that Chapter 7 doesn't tell you why the Ancient of Days
comes. We just know according to Daniel 2 that the
rock smite the image of the feet which has 10 toes.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: The fourth beast has ten horns. Now
we know that the horn, little horn that had eyes of a
man and spake very great things, it was not according
to God, it was against God.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: All right? And he was given power to
do so until the Ancient of Days comes and the thrones
are cast down. Somebody bigger than this power has to
come and, and throw him down and all the powers that
be. And the books will be opened, the judgment will be
set. Then it says then I beheld one like the Son of
Man came with the clouds. And came before the Ancient
of Days. And it was given to him dominion, power,
glory and a kingdom that all nations should serve him.
His kingdom was an everlasting kingdom and his dominion
that which shall not be taken away. Okay? Now he was
grieved. You know, Daniel's like wow, who is this Son
of Man? You know? The subject was a controversy over

24
a horned power which was the political empire.
Something emerged from that empire that spake great
things, but it wasn't in harmony with the books that
will be opened. Now we know the Book of Revelation --
the book that's opened in heaven is the seven seals.
And anything that's contrary to the seven seals if it's
a mystery of God, God declared to the prophets, will be
a subject that will bring contempt when men refuse in
the endtime to learn what the prophets have testified.
Now that man who came to the Ancient of Days on the
cloud, that's Christ. He comes just like in Psalms 2,
the heathen rage in Psalms 2. They say let us break
his bands asunder, let's cast his cords from him. They
don't want to know the seven seals. Because Scripture
clearly teaches in Revelation that only the Lamb can
reveal that. And if anybody comes in the flesh and
reveals the seven seals, hey, that means it's time to
step back from your desk and give the seat over to this
guy. He really don't want it. All he wants to do is
be free and show people the truth so that kings can
become greater kings.
But here's the thing. when they make war
against the saints, and when he goes up against the
prince of the covenant like Daniel says he will, then
that's when God the Father gets involved. Now the next
portion of the prophecy is that in Daniel 8, God

25
illustrates the same truth dealing with the sheep and
the goats. Daniel saw a vision and behold a ram.
Stood before the river Ulai. And what took place, the
ram had power to go towards the north, the east, the
west. And all of a sudden, a he goat came up from the
west and came with choler and power and smote the ram
and broke his two horns. And the ram had no power to
stand.
JOHN: Hey. You've, you told me this before.
You must have forgot.
DAVID: No, I~didn't forget. I didnit have
the, the opportunity to slip in there and give it as
powerful to you as I am now.
JOHN:  Laughing.!
DAVID: I love you, John. I love you. You
see?
JOHN: I know. I know.
DAVID: Okay. So, so what happens is, is
that in, in that prophecy when, when the goat -- it
says his one horn is broken off, four notable horns
came up in its place. *
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: Now Gabriel -- when you read that
chapter, Gabriel tells Daniel point blank that the goat
is the king of Grecia.
JOHN: Uh~huh.

26
DAVID: And that his horn being broken which
is Alexander the Great, the four horns was, you know,
Ptolemy, Cassandra, Lashushamas  phonetic sp.!,
Cassandras, Lisimicus  phonetic sp.!. You know, these
generals of Alexander divided the Grecian empire north,
south, east, west. And it says out of the, out of the
latter days of their kingdom out of the northern empire
emerges this power which became Rome. It became Rome
and everything, you know? And before Rome was, was
ecclesiastical, when it was pagan Rome.
JOHN: Um-hum,
DAVID: Okay. Now here's the keynote.
Scripture tries to let us know that this same power
that's brought to view in Chapter 7 regarding the
fourth beast, the same power shall make war against the
Prince of Princes. See? And cast --
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: -- him to the ground and trample him
underfoot.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: Okay. And make war with the saints
and shall prevail against them until the time that the
Ancient of Days comes which is a latter-day event.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: In other words, throughout the period
of Rome, the Roman empire, when it becomes

27
ecclesiastical --
JOHN: Okay. Until such time as that comes.
DAVID: Okay. So what happens is in the Book
of Revelation we pick up where we take off. In
Revelation 13 --
JOHN: Okay. Okay.
DAVID: In Revelation 13, we witness John
stood up on the sand of the sea and saw a beast.
JOHN: Uhhuh.
DAVID: Head of a lion, body of a leopard,
feet of a bear. There you got it. The fourth beast,
what Daniel 7 --
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: -- is talking about. The fourth
beast devoured meaning it ate. And so you are what you
eat. So Rome devoured, you know, Persia. It divided
Grecia. It divided Babylon.
' JOHN: I know. We just went over that.
DAVID: Okay. Now but it states very clearly
that this empire --
JOHN: Yes .
DAVID: -- blasphemies God.
JOHN: Yes .
DAVID: Now it must be denying something.
It's denying something that pertains to God.
JOHN: Yes.
92

I1
28
DAVID: But then it talks about another
beast, a lamb-like beast.
JOHN: Yes, we've, we've been there.
DAVID: Now that lamb-like beast --
JOHN: And I know what you're talking about.
I totally understand that.
DAVID: That lamb-like beast has two horns.
JOHN: Yes .
DAVID: And the composite beast has 10 horns.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: All together there's 12 horns. And
these two empires --
JOHN: I'm not going to argue that one.
DAVID: These two empires are synonymous
together.
JOHN: Okay .
DAVID: In other words, Europe and whoever
this lamb-like beast personifies, is a coalition
together --
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: -- economically, providentially,
politically. One is fostered from the other. Lamb-
like infers that it's Christian. Speaking of the
dragon means it's not telling you the truth. You get
it?
JOHN: Um-hum.

9 Q
DAVID: Now while this
view, the warning is given about
If any man worships the beast in
receive his mark, the same shall29
beast is brought to
the mark of the beast.
his image, right? And
be tormented in fire
and brimstone. I mean that's a terrible thing you
don't want to do, right?
Okay. So what happens is the mark of the
beast is entailed by the number 666, right?
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: And let him that hath wisdom_count
the number of the beast which is the number of man.
Now come on. The Book of -- who only can reveal the
seven seals? I mean who only can reveal the mark of
the beast?
JOHN: The Lamb.
DAVID: And so you won't even --
JOHN: We've been there before, haven't we?
DAVID: - you won't, you won't even know,
you won't even know what Chapter 7 teaches when it
shows the Lamb stands on Mt. Zion with 144,000 having
the >-
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- seal of the Father on their
foreheads.
JOHN: And where are the 144,000?
DAVID: Well, they're the ones who in Chap --

30
under, under the, under the sixth seal --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- are sealed by the angel from the
east. Remember I --
JOHN: Okay. Where are they?
DAVID: -- I said my coming will be like
lightning from the east that shines to the west.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: So who do you think the angel from
the east is? -
JOHN: But where are the 144,000?
DAVID: They're out there being sealed. And
you know what they're --
JOHN: Well, they're out there. What does
that mean?
DAVID: They're, they're out here in this
country. They're out here in this world. Now let me
explain. Remember I told you God says to wait?
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: Things are happening you don't
understand right now.
JOHN: Okay. '
DAVID: Okay, but here's the keynote. Here's
the keynote. We find in Chapter 14 of Revelation,
Chapter 14, we find that the Lamb stands on Mt. Zion
with the 144,000.

31
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: Now you know literally geographically
in Israel, Mt. Zion is too small for 144,000 people to
stand on. It's just --
JOHN: Well, I don't know. I haven't been
there. I'll take your word for it.
DAVID: Check it out. Don't believe me,
believe geography.
Okay, now here's the thing. But like we said
earlier in Zechariah 14, it talks about in that day the
Lord's feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives, east of
Jerusalem at the Schicom  phonetic sp.! Plain and it's
lifted up. Now the prophecy states that the territory
from Benjamin's gate all the way around to the upper
gate of Jerusalem is going to all become one great
mountain, Mt. Zion. Several, several, several square
miles. And it's lifted up. Now we see how the 144,000
can stand there. The one prophecy must meet its
fulfillment in order for the revelation to be correct
in regards to they'll stand on Mt. Zion.
Now it states that they learn as it were a
new song. And they learn these seven angels. -Remember
I told you in 1985 the Russian cosmonauts talked about
seeing seven angels flying towards the earth?
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: Okay. Now the first angel's message

32
is proclaimed to fear God. This is the first thing
they have to learn. Fear God. Give glory to him, for
the hour of his judgment is come. Now what is God's
judgment? God's judgment is who can open his book.
That's the only question asked in God's judgment.
God don't want to know how bad John Cox is,
what he's done. And where I come from, the devil, you
know, we don't care what you've done. We want to know
one thing. We want --
JOHN: Well, that doesn't tell me that if he
has spoken to you, and you know when, when you're going
to reveal it to me.
DAVID: Okay. So as we develop.
JOHN: And, and I'm --
DAVID: So --
JOHN: -- I'm just looking for that in one
sentence.
DAVID: Okay. One sentence?
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: Daniel Chapter 12.
JOHN:  Laughing.! You're tough.
DAVID: No, it says right there. It says and
when the time to the daily is taken away --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- and the abomination of desolation
set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and

33
ninety days.
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: Now what's the daily? Without
Christ, you don't have a daily, John.
JOHN: But you have to determine when that
clock starts running.
DAVID: It starts running at the time the
seals are opened.
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: In other words, the seals won't be --
JOHN: And when were they opened?
DAVID: 1985.
JOHN: They were opened in 1985?
DAVID: And that's the witness of the ones
who have received it. And that's what got me in
trouble since day one, because there's not been a
scholar or a theological person or even a rabbi that
can gang --
JOHN: But I, I asked you earlier how do you
know that they weren't opened --
. DAVID: I know.
JOHN: -- a thousand years ago in China?
DAVID: I know.
JOHN: You do.
DAVID: I do. You don't know. But I --
JOHN: No, I don't.

34
DAVID:  Laughing.!
JOHN: But I know you do, right?
DAVID: You must test --
JOHN: Hey.
DAVID: -- that one by faith. Because as I
said --
JOHN: You're, you're having a grand --
DAVID: -- when there is time no longer, this
mystery is to be finished. Now if time no longer --
JOHN: You're having a grand time, aren't
you? H
DAVID: No. Let's  indiscernible!.
JOHN: And you do sound much better.
DAVID: Let's, let's reevaluate your
statement. A thousand years ago. Scripture says when
there's time no longer this will be revealed. Now a
thousand years later is not time no longer, John.
JOHN: But it was to people living then.
DAVID: All right. But that's one of the
lesson's --
JOHN: Wasn't it
DAYID: -- excuses. In other words, are
we -- you know, son, you can die tonight. Accept the
Lord savior as your personal savior. You could die
tonight. It could be the end of the world for you.
No. Time no longer means the punctuating of the sun,

moon and stars.
JOHN:
D1118.
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID
and stars shall
JOHN:
DAVID O
Q
JOHN:
fifth seal, but
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
seal.
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
children were in
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID:35
You know --
But to somebody living then that's
You, you know --
That was true.
-- under the sixth seal the sun, moon
be done away with.
Well, where are we then?
we are in the fifth seal.
But you said your children were in the
we were in the seventh seal.
What I said  laughing! --
That's what you said.
I didn't say we were in the --
And I'm quoting you.
I did not say we were in the second
No, seventh.
I think -- no, seventh seal.
I said -- you said, you said your
Those of --
-- this fifth seal.
Those --
However --
-- were -- look. In other words,

36
John, let me explain. In heaven, the seventh seal is
the opening of the trumpets.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: which brings you all the way to the
last chapter which says "I come, my reward is with me."
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: Remember, the only reason why the
seals are revealed on earth is so you might know who
Christ is. You see, people come and do miracles, and
they say that they're the Lord or they're the Lord's
messenger. There are thousands of voices everywhere.
But there's only one honest to God, straight across the
table, hey, this is your friend-next-door-overthe
cowboy-fence test. Well, show me the seals. You know
Christ? Show me the seals. Oh, you're the Lamb? Show
me the seals. Hey, lock, stock and barrel --it's
infallible.
JOHN: Boy, you --
DAVID: If there's a God --
JOHN: -- you make it sound awful easy, don't
you?
DAVID: If there's a -- well, it's easy for
me, but it's not easy for carnal man. It's a test that
they're stumbling over.
JOHN: Well, sure. Sure.
DAVID: That's why God is the rock of all

37
events and a stone is stumbling to those who stumble in
his word. Sure you know, I've had large numbers of
people that I've sat in front of people, you know, and
does God sit on the throne? Yes. He got a book in his
hand? Yes. He give it to the Lamb? Yes. Is that the
Lord? Yes. You love the Lord? Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Hey, is Christ going to come? Yes. What's he going to
bring? What's his reward? Glory, power, riches.
Now wait a minute. Wait a minute. What reward did he
receive that no other person was worthy of? Oh, I
never thought of that. A book. Yeah, yeah. He
received a book. Exactly. Isaiah says he'll come with
a strong hand. His reward is with him. How is he
going to serve the people? He's going to reveal the
seven seals. Yeah, yeah. That's right. Well, I never
I -- man, that is a good observation young man. Yeah.
Only the Lamb can reveal it. Yeah. See, I lead them
along right, right into the trap, right? The
 indiscernible! and snare?
JOHN: Um-hum. Um-hum.
DAVID: Then I, then I ask them a question.
Sir, would you like me to show you the seven seals?
And they look at me and they go, what blasphemy! I
mean, wait a minute. All of a sudden they loved me to
pieces. And all of a sudden when I ask let me show you
the seven seals they look at me. I don't think I'm

38
that ugly. You know. And then all of a sudden the
next thing they do is they run off and, and he's a
black Anti-Christ. He thinks he knows -- he thinks
he's Jesus Christ. Look at the child molester. Look
at this, makes bombs. Look at this, drinks beer.
Plays rock and roll music.
If, if they can't get around the truth, they
got to mud me up. The Australian guys, the eight
ministers in Australia, the conference president over
there. You know what they told me in a group of thirty
some people? 
JOHN: Uh-uh.
DAVID: These guys got so mad at me, John,
because of that very thing I said.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: I mean I was real smooth with them.
They couldn't disagree or nothing. Yeah, as long as we
was talking about Jesus, somebody far away off, oh,
yes. It was perfect. Good observation. I mean they
praised me up and down. You know, this is something.
This is - yeah, the, the reward is the book. Yeah,
we'll, we'll have to look into that, you know.'.And all
of a sudden when I said sirs, let me serve you. Let me
show you these seals and the light of all the
prophecies. Man did they get mad at me. And this guy
says we're going to ruin you. We're going to spend

39
lots of money, whatever it takes, if it takes every
last dime. We're going to ruin you.
I've had those -- I have had threats against
my home. You know, threats against my life.
JOHN: Hey, me too.
DAVID: Yeah. But, but you're an FBI guy.
I'm a religious guy.
JOHN: Well, that's all right. That's just
things that happen. People talk out of there --
DAVID: Then all of a sudden they found I'm a
polygamist. Hey, I mean come off of it. I mean they'd
love to have -- King David had -- how many wives did
King David --
JOHN: Well, that's hard for, for a lot of
people to understand, isn't it? '
DAVID: Yeah. Well, not, not --
JOHN: Under our --
u DAVID: Under your laws.
JOHN: -- values in this country.
DAVID: But I've got to obey my Father's. I
want to obey every law that I can of yours which is
decent and proper. But -- '
JOHN: You know, I'd have a, I'd have a
difficult time obeying that one down in Louisiana.
DAVID: What --  laughing!.
JOHN: Do you believe that?

DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
now.
JOHN:
DAVID
with a woman,
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
grounds that it
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
ignorance --
JOHN:
DAVID40
Are you, are you a polygamist too?
Do you believe that?
 Laughing.!
I hope you do.
Are you a polygamist, John?
Not at all.
Well, now, John, here's the thing
Not at all.
My Father's law says that if you lie
she's your wife.
That's right.
Okay.
And, and I refuse to answer on the
may tend to incriminate me.
Well, we will, we will --
Hows that, how's that --
If God wants to forgive you for your
You will, huh?
-- God will forgive you. But the
thing of it is he wants you to do right now. You know,
God, God does not mind --
JOHN: You may have hooked John 3 into that
one, but you won't hook John 1 into it.
DAVID: Well, look --  laughing!.

JOHN:
DAVID:
in I guess.
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
have been having
DAVID:
JOHN:
And that's great
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
crazy as people
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
Joi-IN =
DAVID:
day. Go ahead.
JOHN:41
 Laughing.! Do you get my drift?
I, I get whatever the log's bringing
Okay.
Here's, here's the --
Let me ask you something, because you
a grand time tonight. And I know --
Hey, I'm going to do --
- and I know that you feel better.
No, Look --
That is great.
Are, are you learning something too?
Every day I talk to you.
Are you learning that I'm really as
say?
No. No.
Wait until I really get going.
 Laughing.!
No, I can't do that --
Youre -- don't be too tough on me.
NO.
Let, let me ask you.
I'll be talking to brick walls one
No, you won't. You'll be talking to a

42
lot of people. Let me ask you. Are. are we, we firmed
up tomorrow that tomorrow evening Rita will be coming
out?
DAVID: As far as 99 percent.
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: I mean she was -- I was supposed to
be here --
JOHN: Well, I, I understand that.
DAVID: -- I was supposed to be here giving
her more  you know, she is nervous.
JOHN: I understand that. And I --
DAVID: She's scared to death.
JOHN: -- and I hope, I hope my little chat
with her this evening helped her a little bit. And,
and I hope you'll be reassuring to her that hey, what,
what I told her is the truth. And if she cares to talk
to me or anybody else out here, we're not going to tell
her any lies or anything else as to what to expect.
And I know she's, she's got some concerns and fears
about that. And I understand that. So if you'll be
reassuring, and if you want any one of us to be, that's
what we're here for, you know? '
DAVID: Well, there's one thing that I have
to reassure my people with. And this is why I kept
saying to you look.
JOHN: Uh-huh.

43
DAVID: I kept saying if you want to drive
your tanks through this wall, you want to run over us,
if you want to gunfight, that's fine. But now I never
said that to the intent --
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID:  that I wanted you to do that.
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: What I was saying was is the most
precious thing that heaven can offer to men is a truth
that can set them free.
JOHN: Um-hum;
DAVID: And sometimes mortal man has to have
time and opportunity to look at the full effect of what
Scripture has stated. And they got to digest it,
because it's like jumping out of an airplane the first
time.
JOHN: What about immortal man?
DAVID : Huh?
JOHN: What about immortal man?
DAVID: Well, immortal man already lives by
the principal codes within their heart.
JOHN: Sure .
DAVID: That's why they're immortal.
JOHN: Sure .
DAVID: That's why where I come from --
JOHN: And we, and - believe me did, did I

44
tell you and everyone else that's talked to you or
talked to Steven or talked to anybody that we're going
to try and be as patient as we can and give you as much
time as --
DAVID: It works to your advantage.
JOHN: -- as is reasonable.
DAVID: It really works to your advantage in
the respect that remember --
JOHN: But, but I'm talking reasonableness.
DAVID: Yeah, well reasonable is going to be
whatever amount of time it takes for these individuals
to be confident in Scripture to stand before you so
that you can give them justice. See, it's not going to
be that long. Don't think I'm planning on staying here
for a month or two or something like that.
JOHN: Well --
DAVID: I am finish --
JOHN: -- I know you're not.
DAVID: I'd like to finish a work --
JOHN: I know you're not. And, and I think
everybody else out here understands that you're not.
You know, we know that. '~
mm. Right .
JOHN: And --
DAVID: See, I don't like --
JOHN: But a lot of people, a lot of people

45
get impatient and a lot of people --
DAVID: You guys are cold out there. You
know, you're -- you think we're a bunch of freaks in
here. I can't blame you for that.
JOHN: Hey.
DAVID: You know, but the thing of it is --
JOHN: What, what can I tell you? We try.
DAVID: Exactly.
JOHN: We try. And when you mentioned that
some others may be coming out, you got any idea how
many? 
DAVID: Oh, possibly every last one of them.
JOHN: No. I mean give me a break, huh?
DAVID: A hundred?
JOHN: No. Do you, do you have -- when you
mentioned that some others you had some difficulty that
they didn't, they didn't do what was expected of them.
They didn't --
DAVID: Well, now --
JOHN: -- do what was right.
_ DAVID: There's more critical than what you
realize. And like I say, John, it's kind of like, it's
kind of like if you was, if you was --
JOHN: I'm looking for a sign from you,
David.
DAVID: I've given it to you.

46
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: All night long I've been giving it to
you.
JOHN: Well, I know that sign. I'm looking
for another sign.
DAVID: You got two signs now. You got two
signs now. Now sit back in the next few days and
watch, okay?
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: That's all I can say. You know, stop
putting the pressure back on me. I'm just a man.
JOHN: I'm not.
DAVID: Of like passions.
JOHN: You know I'm not.
DAVID: I've just got --
JOHN: And John Dolan's not. And none of us
are. We're not putting the pressure on. We're --
DAVID: Don't make me go out there and have
to take one of those tank barrels and twist it around
like a pretzel and, and turn it around and scoot it off
and put a wind-up toy in the back of it, make it, you
know -- '
JOHN: I might want to go out there and watch
that.
DAVID: Yeah, you might get to see it.
JOHN: I might want to go out and watch that.

47
DAVID:  Laughing.!
JOHN: But I'd rather have you open that door
and meet Dolan and I down the end of the road.
DAVID: Well, that's possible too. Very
possible.
JOHN: Well, I hope so.
DAVID: I'd like, I'd like to -- oh, and
whatever happened to Jim?
JOHN: Jim has left --
DAVID: H-E -- H-E-F-H was the first --
JOHN: -- he left here --
DAVID: Long time ago, right?
JOHN: Boy, about a week and a half ago,
something like that?
DAVID: Yeah, you know. He, he could --
JOHN: I mean time flies, but I think it was
about a week and a half ago.
I DAVID: He was a nervous kind of guy too, you
know? But --
JOI-IN: Hey.
DAVID: -- really good. Really sensitive.
JOHN: He was a nice fellow. ',
DAVID: You know, you know, a lot of, a lot
of --
JOHN: Well, he is a nice fellow.
DAVID: Exactly.

48
JOHN: Not was.
DAVID: A lot of critical mistakes can be
made by misjudgments on, on you all's side, you know?
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: And so I have to, I have to say that
you all have, you all have done basically pretty well.
JOHN: Well, I hope so.
DAVID: It's just more comforting if, if you
can get teed off at your commanders like we can get
teed off. And that, that basically shows that there's
no problem between us and you.
JOHN: Well, we have to use a little
restraint sometimes.
DAVID: Well, it didn't --
JOHN: I hope you understand that.
DAVID: It, it didn't make any -- didn't
speak up anything, did it? I mean we're sitting out
here watching them take this gasoline, 92 octane, and
I'm --
JOHN: Hey. '
DAVID: -- and I'm telling Steve I sure hope
they know what they've got there. Because if that, if
that track or that -- if that exhaust off that tank
hits that gas, these guys are going to be in there
jumping like popcorn.
JOHN: Is, is your buddy still up?

49
DAVID: Which one is that?
JOHN: Steve?
DAVID: I, I haven't seen him since --
JOHN: He's probably -- he got a nice sleep
last night though. I know that. Because I --
DAVID: Steve --
JOHN: -- talked to him early in the evening
and no, nobody out here called in all night long to let
everybody get a good night's sleep.
DAVID: Oh, oh. I was giving him, I was
giving him studies last night.
JOHN: NO.
DAVID: I was covering -- yeah, I was
covering ground with him.
JOHN: were you using a stick?
DAVID: A stick?
JOHN: To get his attention every now and
then.
DAVID: No. Steve has always been -- Steve
has, Steve is a teacher of comparative religion. He's
one of the most --
JOHN: Well, I know he is.
DAVID: -- prolific guys this nation's ever
seen when it comes down to religion, different
religions. when he met me, he raked me over the --
JOHN: Are you going to give him a study

50
tonight?
DAVID: No. I don't -- I'm, you know.
He's -- this is Shabbath, and he needs to get a little
rest, and we need to, to pick up tomorrow with some
kind of sense of reality here.
JOHN: Well --
DAVID: Steve raked me over the coals. He's
the kind of guy that used to tear people up and down.
But he could, you know, when he, when he started that
da da da da, he's got a real fast mouth, you know?
JOHN: I know.
DAVID: I sit back and, you know, if someone
wants to out talk me I'll shut up. You can try _
sometime --
JOHN: I'm just trying to find out if, if
it's going to be within the realm of possibility to
talk to some of these people tomorrow or get some
answers on whether Sandra Hardial is in there tomorrow.
DAVID: Hardial.
JOHN: H-A-R-D-I-A-L. I don't know if you
got a pen or a pencil or anything else around you
there. '
DAVID: Rachel, can you take that down?
Yeah, Sandra Hargial  sic!.
JOHN: H-A-R-D --
DAVID: Uhhuh.

S1
JOHN: -- I-A-L.
DAVID: Yeah, that's Hardial, yeah.
JOHN: And that -- and Melissa, Sherri, my
pal Sherri.
DAVID: Um-hum.
JOHN: I'll never forget the 75th Psalm as
long as I think of Sherri.
DAVID: Talk about those horns chop chop,
isn't it?
JOHN:  Laughing.! She's a real silver
tongue devil. Scott and Sita, David Thibodeau,
Marguerita. They're all people that, that we have
messages for out here.
DAVID: Yeah.
JOHN: So I'd, I'd either like to pass them
on or one of the other fellows pass them on.
DAVID: Yeah, don't tell the, the press, news
press and all that I've, that I've -- I Bible beated
 sic! your ear all night. Remember, remember we --
this was just a --
_ JOHN: Let me tell you, if I didn't want to
listen to it, we'd have been off a long time ago, huh?
DAVID: Well, I have to be very careful,
don't I?
JOHN: Why? Shoot. we get along. It will
all work out, won't it?

Q Q
.../'
52
DAVID: Yeah, sad to say and happy to say it
does.
JOHN: It will. It will.
DAVID: The great and dreadful day of the
Lord is great for the righteous and dreadful for the
wicked. And everyone gets to choose.
JOHN:  Laughing.!
DAVID: You know, everyone gets to choose.
JOHN: I just, I just hope that, that we all
work it out in a just way and that if anybody?s got any
problems in there that they let us know about them and,
and we can help them with them, you know? Other
than --
DAVID:  Yawning.! I don't want to hear
 indiscernible! problems.
GRAND JUROR: -- other than that you sound
like I've worn you out this evening.
DAVID: No, it was just one of those
reactions. I said oh, you know, and it kind of ended
up as kind of half a yawn.
JOHN: Uh-huh. I'm boring you.
DAVID: So who else, who else is hanging
around there?
JOHN: Well, who do you care to talk to?
DAVID: Well, you know, just who's on the
agenda there?

I
53
JOHN: Oh, I got Deck sitting over here.
DAVID: How's Deck doing?
JOHN: Fine.
DAVID: who else?
JOHN: Well, he's the only one sitting right
IIEXC CO me.
DAVID: Deck learn anything yet?
JOHN: I'm trying to think of who else is
here but left a little while -- did he learn anything
yet? He is what we would call
pioche. in French a tete de
DAVID: Now what's that?
JOHN: That's a thick head.
DAVID: Well, that's all right.
JOHN: You might want to salt that one in the
back of your mind. But he, he
DAVID: Thick heads,means well.
thick heads are nothing
but people that have a way of seeing, and that's the
way they see, and they see it so they stick with it.
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: That's all a
JOHN: Mike was here
someplace. He'll be back.
DAVID: Eating a lot
JOHN: Not at all.
DAVID: What do theythick head is.
earlier and he's off
of pizza over there?
feed you guys?

Q O
54
JOHN: Not much.
DAVID: Not much?
JOHN: Not much.
 Unidentified male voice in background not
discernible.!
DAVID: You going to --
JOHN: How, how do you like What A Burgers?
Do they do anything for you?
DAVID: Oh, man. Don't even talk about --
JOHN: Well, what can I tell you? _
DAVID: -- over-soaked cardboard meat.
JOHN: What can I tell you?
DAVID: Man, you didn't get them over there
off of Bell Meade  phonetic sp.!, did you?
JOHN: Where?
DAVID: That one off of Bell Meade and 35?
JOHN: I, I guess so.
DAVID: Nasty. Oh, that place is nasty.
JOHN: I could have other names for them
besides that. But you know. I'd hate to have it
played back to me and somebody try to accuse me --
 laughing!. "
DAVID: Have you ever, have you ever tried to
eat their chicken burger? I mean don't do it. You
know, the chicken died a month before they cooked it.
JOHN:  Laughing.! You read it pretty well,

4
huh?55
DAVID: Oh, man. I used to -- when we used
to go over to the club over there, you know, down the
road from there we used to stop because we'd be
coming --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- like, you know, late. And I used
to tell myself, you know, you know, God, why do I, why
do I hurt myself more than what I need to by stopping
at this place?
JOHN:  Laughing.!
DAVID: You know --
JOHN: We're, we're not going to line
for a commercial for them, are we?
DAVID: Not What A Burger, no.
JOHN:  Laughing.!
DAVID: If I, if
therefs one thing that all
that What A Burger is definitely worthy of hell
 indiscernible! --
JOHN:  Laughing.! Their stock's not
to be too high, is it? '
DAVID: We used to sit around, and we
say to people just think, if Coca Cola knew who
drinking their product, you know?
JOHN: You wish you had stock in thatyou up
I turn out being Messiah
heaven's going to know is
for
going
used to
was ,
too?

_
Q.
S6DAVID: No, no, no. It's just, it's just
boy, they'd really have an advertisement, wouldn't
they? 4
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: I mean if Christ was to be here today
in the spirit and truth, there's only one spirit of
God, it's the spirit of truth, you know. Only one
body. You know, Moses and Elijah, different measures
are given. But you know if that, if that body and that
spirit of Christ was here with us today and, and the
seals were really being opened and people were being
able to be shown these things, just think --
 End of tape 140.!
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