The Surprising Potential of Ivermectin Against Cancer: Dr. Kathleen Ruddy

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The Surprising Potential of Ivermectin Against Cancer: Dr. Kathleen Ruddy
YouTube video by Dr. Kathleen Ruddy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xWi1ikXXo0). Transcript is the auto-caption track — verbatim ASR, not a certified transcript.

I was as astonished as anyone might be that Ivor mecon has potential as an anti-cancer agent I began to be aware there was 20 years of research showing that Ivor meon had great potential in the treatment of cancer in this episode I sit down with cancer surgeon turned researcher Dr Kathleen rdy who has been studying how repurposed drugs like ior mechon may impact cancer survival rates a guy in his 70s who had been losing weight for year and a half 40 lb not vaccinated and um he could no longer swallow and he could hardly talk the patient started taking Ivermectin and within a few weeks he started to feel a lot better we got the scan no tumors gone gone this is American thought leaders and I'm Yan Kell Dr Kathleen rdy such a pleasure to have you on American thought leaders thank you for having me you are deeply involved with the flccc and working on Ivermectin of all things as a possible treatment for cancer and this is kind of you know might be astonishing to some people right mean icton of course you know very famous drug for river blindness probably saved millions of lives we know it's effective for treating covid-19 in an early stage especially um there's been a lot of studies done around that but but cancer I mean is are U flccc people all just obsessed with ican that's the question right I'll have to say that I was as astonished as anyone might be that ior mechon has potential as an anti-cancer agent I'm a cancer surgeon we don't do parasites okay we don't do Ivermectin um and I was not really even familiar with those people who use iacon um and and so when in the early days of covid when it became clear that ior Macon was effective in preventing and treating patients with a SARS cob2 infection um I began to be aware having looked in the literature that there was 20 years of research showing that ior mecon had great potential in the treatment of cancer and I was like well I don't understand anything okay why would an anti-parasitic medication be effective against a virus they're two completely different not even organisms they are so far apart from each other on the evolutionary tree that I could not understand why a medication that would be effective in killing a virus and a parasite then show some efficacy in killing cancer cells so I went back to the beginning I think whenever you've got a big question some confusing information go back to the beginning and see if you can understand the vocabulary and the basic science and so the basic science begins historically with uh Satoshi mura digging in the dirt near a golf course in Japan everybody knows that story it's on Wikipedia okay the question that I asked was why was he digging in the dirt why would you look in the dirt for an antibiotic it didn't make sense to me so I I explored that and learned that if you were looking for antibiotics you would look in the dirt you would look in sewage you would dig up you know the ground why why well because single cell organisms um bacteria uh fungi uh mold yeast they anti-life described decades ago as bioweapons the researchers who were studying antibiotics refer to them as anti-life bioweapons again the question is why would a single cell organism you would think it's got a lot of things it needs to do why would it synthesize this molecule I matin or mebendazol or whatever because single cell organisms do not have an immune system multicellular organisms can diversify and they can assign immune defense defend the organism from Attack uh in a very marvelously intricate way and they do that single cell organisms it's they're on their own and so what they've done evolved over hundreds of millions of years to synthesize these molecules these bi weapons that they then secrete into the environment that act as sort of the Swiss army knife that's the immune system it's that molecule so it has to do as many things as possible in order to preserve the organism from predators and to give that organism an advantage when competing in the environment for resources so you're competing with your neighbors you may be competing with your relatives right but really you want not to be eaten or poisoned M and so over a period of hundreds of millions of years we can assume streptomyces synthesizes iacon and itin goes out there and that's the immune system into the environment around the organism and it can kill parasites and it can dismantle viruses and because I believe there is substantial information scientific evidence of tumor virus since we know that 50 to 20% of cancers are caused by tumor viruses it is my belief and I'm not alone in this that the majority of cancers are caused by tumor viruses yet to be discovered and so it makes sense to me once I understood that it made sense to me why iveron would be effective against parasites and everybody knows that for 50 years win the Nobel Prize fine basically eradicate river blindness almost entirely and dismantle viruses because viruses that get inside bacteria are called fases right and they disrupt the genome you want to get rid of those guys too and if in fact there is a close relationship between viruses and cancer I think there is then that gets at cancer too this very wonderful one molecule 3in thick Swiss army knife that's the immune system and I think when people understand that they're better able to um accept that if this single cell organism can do this with one molecule that perhaps knowing that it's safe and effective against parasites and safe and effective against SARS K2 and a host of other viruses and in the laboratory in vitro and Vivo studies 20 years of research at least effective against uh cancer cells well okay then the question is why don't we pose the question do these medications IIM bendas all the rest of them do they improve the survival of patients with cancer you can see it they kill cancer cells human cancer cells in the lab in animals fine are they effective in improving the survival of patients with cancer simple question and that brings us to the agenda for today it does indeed it does indeed um I can see you've done a few lectures uh uh you know and and and I I would say well I would have enjoyed uh you know basically learning learning from you as a as a resident or something so I wanted to take a quick break to tell you about something that's actually quite important to me I've been kind of resisting uh getting a sponsor for the show for some time there's been numerous offers let's just say Patriot Gold group came to me and that gold is actually something that I've been thinking about quite a bit because we're in very volatile times very unpredictable times so gold is the place that that I think is a one of the few kind of stable places to put money uh and Patriot Gold group is a good company we check them out and so I bought some gold with them and you know the value and this is kind of crazy uh since I bought it I think about 3 weeks ago of this gold has gone up by over $500 and this isn't a large amount of gold that I bought here so let me show you what I got so this is Rand Refinery 1 oz fine gold bullion the American Eagle and five silver eagles so I'm going to I'm actually going to pull out the Gold Eagle for you because it looks kind of awesome wow it's got an amazing weight to it so if you're inspired to buy some gold I recommend you call Patriot Gold group you can call them at 888 85749 888 85749 mention American thought Leaders with that let's head back to the interview you have a number of uh cases where Ivor mecon corresponded with a kind of somewhat dramatic reduction of cancer in in a patient so tell me about these well okay so the opening act in this story is that I began to do the scientific research peer-reviewed papers read them chronologically so you can understand what everyone is thinking as they make their discoveries and what they're thinking and the questions they ask and so on and so forth and here was in all this research that Ivor ma showed great potential as an anti-cancer agent having seen for myself and being very well persuaded by the work of drors Corey and merik and others the data coming out of South Africa and India that Ivor mein was safe and effective in treating patients with Co I began to Wonder to what extent might this be effective in treating patients with cancer well I understood that the pharmaceutical industries were not going to invest in a 10 cent per pill pill and if the pharmaceutical industries were not willing to do that no one was going to do it as Pharma funds everybody else that's doing research right um I was introduced to a patient with stage four for prostate cancer had received two vaccines perfectly healthy marathoner no history of cancer in the family two months after his uh second fer shot works for the government he going to lose his job in his pension if he wasn't vaccinated um he was diagnosed all at once with stage four prostate cancer he tells a very compelling story melodramatic story about that 24-hour period of time in his life um and he went through the traditional protocols radiation chemotherapy radiation chemotherapy pharmacologic castration all of it over a period of 9 months and then his doctor said you know there's really nothing else we can do and uh his name is Paul man and he was like can't you give me more radiation no can't you give me more chemo no aren't there any other drugs no are there any clinical trials there's nothing hospice send for the priest so a friend of his knew me and she said uh would you give Paul a call he just needs some moral support something so I said sure So I began calling him we spoke about once a week for 3 weeks and finally um the poor guy was suffering had cancer and 11 bones in his body his right leg was completely swollen obstructed with tumor he's miserable and I said Paul I don't know if this is going to help you but I know it's not going to hurt you I just can't imagine based on my judgment and understanding of the scientific literature and all the work that doors Corey and Merck had done and others around the world that ior in would hurt you it might help I can't say so he said you know I'll give it a try and uh he drove to Tennessee where you could get it without a prescription PS I discovered last night having dinner with Paul and his wife Terry he drove from where he lives in Missouri to Tennessee and paid cash for his iveron that's it he didn't submit it to insurance company he didn't tell anybody back in Missouri his oncologist no his iacon prescriptions are listed in his chart how did that information get from the pharmacy in Tennessee to his chart in Missouri we don't know somebody does I'd like to know myself anyway he starts taking Iber maon and he doesn't have any problems with it and I talk to him every week and um how are you feeling well no change next week uh maybe a little bit better I I don't know how's your leg it's not quite as swollen how how's the pain pain everywhere maybe a little bit better slowly slowly slowly not getting worse not necessarily getting better not getting worse fast forward um two month follow-up appointment at the clinic they didn't expect to see him okay Paul um he's feeling a little bit better they do a PSA which was off the charts to begin with and if I'm not mistaken at the time they randomized him to hospice I think it was in the hundreds maybe 700 800 what does that mean exactly for the late person over four would be abnormal MH okay so what are we talking about here prostate cells normally secrete a protein prostate specific antigen it's one of the things that they do cancer cells that originate in the prostate that are dividing rapidly and growing fast are spitting out PSA MH okay it's not that they're contributing to the body economy in any way it's just they just want to multiply and divide and that's the end of the story and so your PSA levels start to rise which is a marker a screening marker oh your PSA was four and now it's eight let's do a prostate ultrasound whatever so PSA can be a screen for the emergence of a tumor but it can also be used particularly at high levels as evidence for cancer response to cancer recurrence of cancer his was I mean it's supposed to be you know four you know yeah it's hundreds okay he goes back for his two-month appointment it's 1.3 they said you're in remission well not you know complete remission he still had the bone Mets but you're in like a biochemical remission well that was good news slowly slowly slowly he begins to improve less pain swelling is okay a lot of other vaccine injuries however he's getting better he's getting better giving him uh nutritional support and other supplements he's having tias little mini strokes but he didn't tell me about that because we were talking about the cancer but over a period of time asking him questions and I said oh you're having TI his wife said yeah having tias I said what are the cancer doctors tell you cuz that's who he's seeing they say it's not related to my cancer was like so I get a call from his wife one evening he's in the emergency room he's had this Tia he whatever it is catastrophic and um I said Paul what are they doing for you and he said well they did a CAT scan of my head and they said they don't see anything specific it's a TIA and it's not related to my cancer they send them home I said did they do anything no I said well okay call me crazy I'm a cancer surgeon but I think you need to see a cardiologist I think there are things they can do okay and of course I look it up really quickly and and of course there things so get him to the cardiologist get him on blood thinners no more problems with tias okay that's an indictment of the healthcare system so he's getting better but nine months later um he's out dancing for 4 hours three nights a week he gets a head to toe uh rescanning and uh three of the bone Mets are gone there no growth of the Mets that are there no new lesions there's only one hot spot and that's where he received radiation therapy and the radiation um the radiologist really could not distinguish whether that was a tumor hot spot or radiation change um he is doing very well the vaccine injury is uh a problem but the cancer is no longer a problem except for the fact that it's still there and we want to get rid of it completely um and he and he said he called me for a hockey game and he said uh if I didn't know I have cancer I would not know I have cancer that was patient number one I was like that's interesting a second patient crossed my path a guy in his 70s who had been losing weight for a year and a half 40 lbs not vaccinated 40 lb weight loss smoker drink or all he does is fish and um he could no longer swallow and he could hardly talk and so I got on the phone with him and I said uh Eddie you know tell me a little bit about your history and so forth he knew someone with prostate cancer who had taken IAC had cured himself from prostate cancer with that so Eddie began taking iacon I have no idea what the dosing was he was just taking it and and I gave him some advice about diet you know try and get the weight back on and so on and so forth within a couple of weeks he sounded stronger mhm sounded stronger he could swallow he had gained six PBS his his voice was better followed him for the next couple of weeks maybe another month or so and I said Eddie we need to get a scan he doesn't have insurance he doesn't like doctors whatever he had been diagnosed in that interval with two esophageal tumors unresectable surgeons wouldn't go near it the uh doctor said well we'll give you chemo and radiation and Ed he said no you're not so he takes his IAC and maybe about 6 weeks later I said Eddie you need to get a scan had to argue with Eddie to get a scan we got the scan no tumors Gone Gone the problem was that he had sold his fishing boat that was the biggest problem he was getting better his tumor was gone now he need to grab by another fishing boat that was the second patient I was like well now that's interesting third patient was a woman who was referred to me her husband called me he said could you talk to my wife I think she's got a problem she could feel a lump in her lower pelvis and uh she'd had that for a while I said do you have any vaginal bleeding yes a little bit but not much she was in her 60s and I said um I think the best thing to do would be to go to the doctor and get a CAT scan she do like doctor she doesn't have insurance she's not getting a CAT scan I was able to convince her to get at least an ultrasound she gets an ultrasound she has a 6 cm tumor in her pelvis it's close to the colon it's close to the ovary it might be near the uterus who knows it's just wedged down there and I said you know it would be very helpful if you would at least be willing to do a needle biopsy because if it's cancer it's going to make a difference in terms of what your choices are nope she's not going to do that so I called her periodically over the next couple of months and I'm fine no no problem whatever and I said well call me if you need me you know so this was I think like April May um and I got a call December 23rd from her husband 9:30 at night her belly is distended she can't eat uh she's not passing gas she's not passing stool her her abdomen hurts and I said press down on her belly does that hurt yeah it press when he presses yet it hurts they said now press and lift up really quickly like flick the belly does that hurt yeah that's worse I said get her to the emergency room we don't have insurance we don't like doctors we're in West Virginia we hate the we hate the hospitals I said look she's going to blow out her bowel and then you're going to take her to the emergency room and she's going to die I suggest you go now okay take her to the emergency room they do a CAT scan 18 cm tumor who knows what it's wrapped around 18 cimet tumor they give her intervenous uh and I said let me talk to the ER doctor I said is she stable enough can you rehydrator she's stable enough to go to Charlottesville because I have family I know people and Charlottesville UVA is a great Hospital let's see if we can get her to Charlottesville yes so the ER doctor I can imagine was very happy happy to get her on the way to UVA and they admit her Christmas Eve and um they hydrate her and they give her nutrition and the Surgical Oncology uh head of the Surgical Oncology team comes in to see her brilliant surgeon brilliant surgeon a Persian and he said I'm not sure that I can resect this but let's tune you up and let's see what we can do if I can I will so she gets all tuned up ready to go um the hospital would not give her unvaccinated blood so there was a big Shakespearean melodrama the night before surgery but she said I've got to have a surgery so okay she did not require blood transfusion thank God so the surgical oncologist is brilliant SEAL Team Six surgeon goes in with a vascular team a DN team their Urologic team because it's wrapped around the urer and who knows what's going on with uterus and the surgical team so forth they all go in and 7 and 1 half hours later they close they have negative margins they got the whole thing to negative margins she had Mets in her liver three Mets in the liver and then post-operatively during her recovery um the metastic lesions in the liver multiplied which is not uncom common she went home maybe five or six days later uneventful post-operative course again you know A+ to the surgical team at UVA she gets in the car she goes back to West Virginia and of course the medical oncology people at UVA insist she have chemo they are breathing down they're making appointments for her it's not not a question you know we think you should have this Pro you know here's your appointment here's your appointment and she goes yeah I'm going back to West Virginia she starts taking icon and I think she was probably taking a little bit higher dose I can't really say um I don't think it was Sky High but anyway Ivor maon as I said to you is safer than a sugar pill you'd have to take a lot to make yourself sick well let's stop for a moment safer than tell me that again yeah yeah this might be a bit of an exaggeration but not by much um ior macin is so non-toxic that if you gave someone on you know ican every day if you did a randomized trial these people are getting ican every day and these people are getting sugar pills every day my prediction test it see what happens would be that the people who were getting the sugar pills would end up having more harm at least you know spikes in their insulin level than the people taking irtin so that's why I say kind of flippantly you know it's safer than a sugar pill anyway she starts taking icton and uh I said uh we need to do a scan you know uh everybody gets sick of hearing me say we need to do a scan um she didn't want that how about an ultrasound because you can image the uh liver pretty well with an ultrasound and he she had had an ultrasound so we could compare liver's clean nothing in the liver she's fine she's driving around with the husband she's going down to the Border she's pushing back against the aliens whatever she's just she's doing very very well so that was the third patient and I thought I cannot just wait for patient 4 through n as I describe it to see if ior macton really is effective something has to be done I feel compelled to do something what is that going to be what am I going to do and I had to think hard because I didn't have the money to fund a study which would on average cost $6 million for phase one study of a repurpose medication what could I do what could I do and then after a good hard think I thought well an observational study like the Framingham study where you identify a population in the Framingham study it was the people who lived in Framingham but in this observational study it would be patients with cancer who themselves decided either in addition or instead of or whatever they decided they were going to use itin and other repurpose medications as part of their Cancer Care and I as principal investigator being just the neutral woman with a chart collecting data this observational data prospectively I would be recording the data and that would allow me to see over a period of time whether there was a survival advantage in patients with cancer who were taking icin and other repurpose medications compared to historical controls and we have Decades of historical controls as an example what is the likelihood that someone with a stage four prostate cancer sent to hospice would have over a period of N9 months a remission and a clinical Improvement as Paul experienced well as I say it's not zero probability but it approaches zero what is the likelihood that a patient with stage 4 cancer patient with stage three unresectable Sagal cancer a patient with an 18 cm kenberg tumor orelvis would all have such remarkable results that you might attribute to ior macton seeming to be the common denominator one two three what is the likelihood of that happening like winning the lottery the first three tickets you buy that approaches zero that probability approaches zero nonetheless that's not how we do science we you don't do science by saying you know it's really odd that these three people had this experience you create the hypothesis you create the question you design a study in such a way that you can answer the question and validate it and make sure that the data that you collect are neutral verifiable you can audit the data someone else who's not involved in the study is responsible the biostatistician for evaluating the data now you have the data You' accumulated that over a period of time you turn that over for peer review you go through all of that and then you publish so I began had a wonderful opportunity to speak to Dr Merck about this he was very interested and as God would have it um he thought there was great wisdom in having a multi-center observational study as I've described where you have multiple co-principle investigators with the clipboard with the data element list that we have compiled with an independent biostatistician all moving forward to collect the data with Dr Merck who you can't find someone with better credentials okay I believe that he's God teed him up to do this he probably didn't expect he was going to be doing this but I think that God teed him up to do this and so he'll be the the principal investigator on this large multicenter observational study will collect the data and if we see a signal that is if we observe and the biostatistician validates and peers concur that the patients who are taking these repurpose medications like Ivermectin especially now that we know how icon works when is working in the dirt um then we will be able to launch additional questions and additional studies and continue to move this ball downfield and so I just want to clarify one thing you said do I understand correctly that you tried itin three times only for cancer and these were the three results well I didn't try it okay so we had to be clear I didn't try it the I discuss with the patient I said you know think about this hear the studies refer the patients talk to them and then they decide I me is approved by the FDA and thank you the fifth district right and uh the incompetent attorney for the Department of Justice defending the FDA who wasn't able to argue that Physicians and providers cannot prescribe iek and or other FDA approved medications based on their judgment patients can get it across the counter in Tennessee patients chose to do this I was there calling finding out how you're doing and learning your Cancer's gone it's it's not there the the three cases you're aware of where this was done yeah that you know people were you know calling you about all of them cleared up that is an unexpected result that would warrant a study of the nature yeah that you're describing I think so yeah I think so so yeah no and so how many are is there a patient number right now across all these different centers oh it's just officially been launched okay um it I am asked a lot you know the past couple of days you know what are your data I'm like principal investigators do not discuss the data until they have the data and then they don't discuss the data until it's been validated by a biostatistician and peer-reviewed no principal investigator would jump in early on and say oh we have 100 patients and we're no that's not how studies are done now there is an imperative to do this as quickly as possible but not recklessly fortunately patients that we're seeing today particularly those with Advanced cancer don't have long to live so we don't have to do a 20-year study as you should if you were evaluating a vaccine right or a new J drug we don't have to wait 5 years to see the separation in curves if there is a separation based on these repurpose medications we're not going to have to wait 5 years to see that we'll conduct the study for at least 5 years I would imagine it's going to be open-ended why not do what Framingham did Framingham didn't shut the study down Framingham has been going at it for decades right why not keep the studies open and see how far down field you can get with that well you'll and you'll quickly see you know what how many out of the people that are around are making it basically because of that that's um incredible I wish you luck with this well you know science is the uncertain pursuit of the unknown and I'm not sure it's uh it's luck so much as it is paying attention right you pay attention you concern you use your judgment you use your judgment there a medical student asked the question uh in the Forum yesterday uh uh based on uh William osler's statement to the medical students at Johns Hopkins half of what we teach you is wrong we don't know which half it is and the medical student said well how am I supposed to figure this out you use your judgment that's what you really learn as a professional use your judgment pay attention look at the data ask questions ask question questions ask questions use your judgment act do something I mean unless you're just going to be an ivory Tower kind of person use your judgment and then act as the uh Africans say when you pray move your feet act okay three prepare for trouble no matter what it is prepare for difficulties flccc can tell you firstand the difficulties Merill Nash I mean people we ran into trouble right and we're running into trouble now prepare for difficulties expect it defend yourself identify what the vulnerabilities are expect them preempt them to the extent that you can you can't preempt everything don't be surprised when it happens don't give up okay don't give up Paul man has tattooed on the inner wrist don't give up he wanted to remind himself I'm dying of cancer don't give up okay don't give up and finally do your best do your best those five principles yeah luck sure fine we'll take luck just do those things um and you'll be lucky enough let's put it that way and you know in not too long we'll have some you know preliminary results from this from these stud I'll be very interested in knowing what they show me too um me too you know and it's not on the other hand you know at the beginning I was saying you know there's this iberin Obsession here with this group I'm kind of Jo I'm kind of being glib of course yeah but you know Dr Paul Merck has indeed you know looked into you know hundreds of different papers of methods of both prevention and treatment of cancer of things that we just simply weren't aware of or like we're not not in our frame of reference not in his frame of reference in most cases never mind mine right yeah and and there's a lot of them I mean V there's this astonishing uh study on vitamin D that that that we talked about in our interview he said it was the one of the most significant findings he had he had found I mean who knew right that vitamin D can help with a few other things and you know very rigorous yeah evidence for that right and but there's so many there's actually so many things that don't involve or could work in addition to things like you know radiation or a Keo and and so forth so why why not I vercon you know right I guess that that's also the the question yeah well let's see Ivor maon let's see mebendazol metformin sedan vitamin D3 at higher doses C all this a whole list are you are you are you working on those as well I allow the patients to make their decisions my job as I see it is to provide to answer all questions that occur to them and they're pretty well informed which is a blessing um and to give them the information that I have that I think they would find useful there are issues I believe potential issues uh with the use of ican in patients with the brain tumor it's a bit uh of a challenge you've got to discuss that with a patient so they might say well I don't know if I'm interested in using I've got a brain tumor and from what you're telling me that I've might not be the best choice there is something else that would be perhaps a better choice mendas all so the patients are making the choice my job is to give them the information that they need to help them make that choice but they decide they decide so that reminds me of something that sometimes gets lost recently something called informed consent yeah that's what informed consent is I'll tell you what I know um and I I encourage patients to do this um a desperately ill wonderful man desperately with brain tumor and um there was nothing else I could do radiation C there's nothing else I could do um and he was you know losing the fight by the day and uh but there was a protocol his medical oncologist said you have to do this you have to do this and I said ask the medical oncologist why you have to do this ask the medical oncologist does he have any information about the potential for this to be beneficial is there anything in the literature anywhere and if there is any information could he share that information oh 40% of the patients dropped out of the trial and 2% of the patients had a catastrophic side effect and nobody lived longer but you have to do this trial you have to sign and so the patient goes to me this is the conversation and uh the patient's like you can't tell me if there's any benefit of the trial uh you're not free to tell me what any of the preliminary complications might be I'm signing this consent and you got two pages of complications here but you're not discussing that with me but you're telling me I have to do this this is my only choice and the patient said no thank you so yeah thorough inform consent well and you know when it comes to all of these existing standard therapies there is all of them have you know they they don't work 100% you have to there's a there's a risk benefit right in any one of these scenarios that that and this is you know this is one of the things I hadn't really thought about that much until Co right and understanding that that's always the calculation you have to make with any disease any treatment for that disease and the side effects and and so forth you there's kind of that's that's why every doctor needs to look at each patient individually yeah and and ask the question how how valuable is this for you and what are the possible costs then you'll and in the end you can you can choose if this is right right right and some patients may say you know enroll me in the study if it kills me maybe I add some beneficial information fine there'll be some patients who will say I've had enough okay I'm done okay I'm dying if you can't tell me that I'll tell you I'm dying I'm going to go home make me comfortable at home please patient series and I can just you know imagine there's some cases where people are you know where the doctor will say well frankly this seems to be the only reasonable it has its risks but it's the only thing I see helping yeah right and that that's reasonable too right yeah sure right yeah you also talking about um these uh breast cancer viruses right and so so what do we know about that right now what's this what's the state of knowledge we know that a breast cancer virus exists in mice no one has any question about that the animal models that are used to study drugs and interventions uh that might translate into use in women with breast cancer are all bed based on these mice that get breast cancer and they get breast cancer because of the breast cancer virus which was discovered by John bner in 1936 that virus has been found in other animals that virus has been found in rats cats dogs monkeys and that virus has been found in humans uh Dr James Holland who since passed away um highly respected venerated researcher professor of medical oncology and virology at Mount Si beatric Pogo a professor of virology at Mount Si found this virus in human breast cancer others have found it there's Decades of research I mean a 100 Years of research um on this breast cancer virus in the runup to the uh passage of the National Cancer Act there were hearings in the Senate and at that hearing uh Dr Holland talked about the breast cancer virus was 50 years ago there were other researchers talking about tumor viruses the one of the largest study sections at the NCI so the NCI funds research based on study sections this is a section we're going to study this so one of the largest study section sections at the NCI for maybe 10 20 years prior to the drafting of the National Cancer Act was tumor viruses Leukemia Lymphoma sv40 the breast cancer virus when the National Cancer Act was passed and it was declared as if written in stone that we would cure cancer in five years this was a pipe dream the pipe dream of a woman who had a degree in art history who persuaded Nixon who needed a way out from a deteriorating public polling he was having a bad rap in Vietnam the war on cancer how about that we'll replace the war in Vietnam with a war on cancer everybody ought to love that and we're going to cure cancer in five years great we don't need to know what causes it so all of the research on tumor viruses was completely deep sixed that's the end of the story on the breast cancer virus I was completely unaware of it I had done my fellowship at moral and kering I had never heard of the breast cancer virus so when I heard of the existence of one because Holland had uh published a paper and presented at the San Antonio breast uh meeting um 2006 December 2006 I was like what a press cancer virus the story as I began to understand it was so intriguing so I wrote a book about it and then tried to advance to reawaken Susan choman Foundation Susan love Foundation American Cancer nobody's interested in the breast cancer virus why because we're treating it we have mamogram screening and we're finding it early and we have a Arimidex and we have re setin I'm like you know we discovered that HPV causes cervical cancer make a vaccine a proper vaccine against that you need make a proper vaccine against that one that's safe if you take the virus out of the equation you don't get cervical cancer John Bitner showed that with the breast cancer virus so the research on the breast cancer virus has inched forward against enormous opposition in the past 20 years but perhaps one of the great blessings of This Global catastrophe will be a better understanding of MEC and and repurpose medications and how and why they work and given the fact that I've been asked to share my thoughts about this from time to time I get a chance to talk about the breast cancer virus and see if we can't reawaken some interest in this because if it's true that a virus causes breast cancer in women we need to know about that and we need to do something about that and another monoclonal antibody is not what I'm talking about I mean absolutely fascinating and and you know a book A book another book to for my for my reading so how many other molecules are have been identified that are these you know immune systems in a molecule as you would describe it well I think all of the antibiotics are nature's bioweapons I dare we even use that [Music] term which is why something like doxy cyclon is part of a protocol uh right um ader vastan you know a Statin um I think that Dr Merck has identified 10 13 uh various natural compounds green tea extract right tea green tea leaves in nature nature paths will tell you all about this how many are there I have no idea um I know that uh Dr mer has identified uh a list my view is that there's justification for the items on his list and if we begin to take this seriously and move forward seriously we can begin to look at other naturally more naturally occurring I mean is this almost like a kind of new sub branch of medicine or something that we're launching here no I think it's a renovation of an Old Branch of medicine called cancer oncology okay every now and again you have to renovate right have you ever renovated a kitchen you can take the house down to the foundation um I don't think we need to burn the house down I think there's so many smart people so many good people um I mean really brilliant wonderful people that have contributed to this vast body of knowledge I think we have to renovate I think we got a leaky roof and the windows aren't quite right the floor is slow big job ahead of us um I think we can renovate and I think that a renovation of cancer I'll probably take a lot of heat but prepare for trouble right item number three on the list prepare for trouble I think that it's possible that the principles of medical oncology based on chemotherapy cytotoxic chemotherapy will give way to a new approach where it's not targeted because targeted therapy is not targeted to the tumor herceptin targets cancer cells that Express her too new but also targets the heart okay targets other other organs truly um targeting the cancer and the metabolic pathways of cancer leaving the rest of you alone boosting the immune system that's the renovation and as I I said earlier today this is something of an exaggeration but maybe this will be what happens uh you replace um things like the iron lung for polio right um and you replace face masks you replace cytotoxic chemotherapy with other interventions that are not toxic but that get the job done well Dr Kathleen rdy it's such a pleasure to have had you on thank you very much thank you all for joining Dr Kathleen rdy and me on this episode of American thought leaders I'm your host Yan Kell [Music]