Document text
Forms to be Filled out for Each Interview
-ICAO i;'0I,TU1.1'
FORM A
Circumstances of Interview
STATE Illinois
NAME OF WORKER Sam Ross
ADDRESS 713 Ruth Street
DATE May 18, 1939
SUBJECT Jazz music (Chicago)
1. Date and time of interview
Ole
April 28th May 4.9
2. Place of interview..
Town Room Hotel Sherman
Panther Loom hotel Sherman
3. Name and address of informant
Muggsy Spanier hotel Sherman
4. Name and address of person, if any, who put you in
touch with informant.
i4ODO
5. Name and address of person, if any, accompanying you
::onor
6. Description of room, house, surroundings, etc.
-Jight olub surroundings
(Use as many additional sheets as necessary, for any of the forms, each
bearing the proper heading and the number tb which the material refers.)
FOLKLORE
CHICAGO
No, Words
114 36E,'
FORM B
Personal History of Informant
CIIICAGO FOLKSTUFF
STATE Illinois
NAME OF WORKER Sam Ross
ADDRESS 713 Rush Street
DATE May 18, 1939
SUBJECT Jass music (chicago)
NAME OF INFORMANT AUgcsy Spaniel.
1. Ancestry
Irish
2. Place and date of birth
FOLKLORE
CHICAGO
November 9, 1906 Chicago
Irish
4. Places lived in, with dates 4,
Practically all over country (stated in part in Form 0
3. Family"'
5. Education, with dates 0.
Parochial grade sohool
6. Occupations and accomplishments, with dates
Musician
7. Special skills and interests
Musician, baseball
8. Community and religious activities
9. Description of informant
Picture enclosed,
10. Other Points gained in interview
110
FOLKLORE
FORM C
STATE
NAME OF TORKER
ADDRESS
DATE
SUTJECT
NAME OF INFORMANT
Text of Interview (Undited)
CUICAGO FOLESTUFF
Illinois
Sam Ross
713 Rush Street
May 18, 1939
Jess music (Chicago)
Muggsy Spanier
CHICAGO
At first I started out as a drummer. Those days I used to go
down to hsar Joe Oliver at the Dreamland Cafe on 36th and State.
Before that Joe played at the Peek -In Cafe. But I was too yoling to
go inside there. Anyhow, they didn't start playing till 12:00 at
night. But I used to stand outside and liste, both places. They
used to have matinee dances at the Dreamland and I'd ditch school
and go out there. Joe'd play with that little mute and get some
wonderful effects and I decided I'd do that too, which I'm still try-
ing to perfect. Than Joe played at the Lincoln Uardeas and I followed
him there. I'd put offi my brother's long pants and go there and listen
to them and get up early and a to school in the morning. I must of
been about 13 years old at the time and I was still playing drums. But
finally I wont to my .;:other and I told her I wanted to play a cornet and
she bought me one on time. She paid 0.25 for it. I'll never forget it.
It was a real pretty thing.
When the Dixieland band began to me.le records I bought all I could
get and play them on my victrola and play zy cornet with the recording.
After that Joe'd let me sit in with his band. That was an unheard of
thing in those days up north here, a whits person playing with niggers.
FORM C TEXT
CHICAGO FOLKSTIE2F
Then I met the fellows from the New Orleans Rhythm Kings and I hung
around with them. They were at Friar's Inn. Their manner, Joe's too,
style affected me. It was a different style. Because at the time the
rage was sweet music and laughinl cornets. Tommy Ladnier was another
man I admired. The rhythm Kings was the best band put together at the
time. Ladnier took Armstrong's lace with Oliver and played second
trumpet when Armstrong went to New York to join Fletcher Henderson's
band. There were few white guys they'd let sit in with them but they
let some because some couldn't play that way with any other band.
I met Bix at the Friar's Inn where the New Orleans Rhythm Kings
were and we both came down to listen to them. We met in a ftwilirlIMV,
sort of unoonscious. We'd sit around and listen to the boys and then
one day Bix said, "I'm a cornet player." And I said, "I'm one, too."
After that we went out to the south side together and there was one
place we, dropped in at where there vas a piano and a drum and we sat in with
our two horns and we played together so well we decided we'd he a cornet
team. Always we met at Friar's Inn and then we'd knock around together.
One time I tried out for a job. There was a violin, wax, piano,
banjo, and drum, and they needed a cornet. I played one number and the
guy threw me out. ie didn't like what I was doint with a mute.
All this time, while I was goin' to school and
couldn't mak* up my mind what to do. You see I was
ball. I was a great ball player. When I was a kid
on a day job, I
crazy about playing
during the war the
big leaguers were with the Navy team and Jeff Feffer taught me haw to
pitch. I wanted to be a pitcher till I got interested in music. I pitched
FORM C TEXT -4e
CHICAGO FOLe:STUF-e
Tesoh was about 19 then. he was a quiet guy, a wonderful guy,
never talked much unless he got a couple drinks in him. he was a
finny guy though. If the baud didn't play exactly rieht he couldn't
play. The band had to be perfect.
ee used to make our own arrangements. he never jeered. I never
went in for that stuff, jam, bringing your instrument around to another
spot and sitting in and janeine, tee do tat ourselves though. ?e'd go
to one of the fellows houses and have our own fun, singing the blues and
playin' them. Tesoh and I had a favorite place we liked to go to on 10th
and 4abash, a wine place, e'd drink our wine then we'd go out and listen
to guys like Jimmy boons and all that. Tesoh really had an original style.
I can't describe his style. I just liked him. ee could real swing. You
know, his favorites were "eappollo, roone, and Johny Dodds,
From the :idway I got a little job in 1orest Park,then I went to the
terry eardens. Jess (Stacey) was with Joe Kayser and I tried to -et Tesoh
in there but they weuldn't have him and i was pretty sore. eXter that I went
with any iller at the College In_ and then 1 went with led Lewis.
Iriday night was a big night at the sunset Cafe where Louie (Armstrong)
was and 'earl Hines and we'd meet down there and listen to them. The only
time we'd get together would be there or on recerding. eut we'd try to get
together on the same job when we'd be clubbing aroued. In between the big
jobs we'd have to depend on week -end jobs.
Ted Lewis was a fine -ey to work for. he liked hot music even if he
couldn't play it. eta used to -et guys like Teagarden and Fats 'ealler and
Dorsey and mcDonough to make records with him. Boy I used to get seared in
Foam nxtr
CUICIWO FaISTUFF
the apot I stand bovine to eat up there in the spot
sod ploys solo. I never vent for that staff. This is a rummy one. TIMM
play a oorny solo on his clarinet and I'd ploy a solo too and hied walk book to the
erebestra and say to me, *People *till like what I do.' amen Levis vented
my full name when he mired e for a Idb with him he vent slots utien I put
on the, vire: JOhn Francis jeeeph Thomas Julian. flo mated my full *as.
Dom Vervmy vas in the band and he vas the vast underrated musielan of the
time. Le vas may aboad of his tine. De vas the son of a minister, as
came home drunk one merman( utile the old man vas watering, tho Immo and uhen
the old man saw him be turned this hoe* on Don to seller his up. BO really
know musio. Me kid studied hammy for four year*. I gave Lewis plenty of
hoodeohes. I'll =vat forret the time I as. in the hospital and Louis owe
and vithout swine hello or nothine, tho first thine be said vas, ei
told you that stuff (drink) '4 put you there.TM
COMA I
Orem Spamtorso band
and said seliy tbey sound like they' r* all vrtttoz
are, I said, up here. (Pointed to head.)
21644 some eiy mills as up and owe, I eau play wore hymen that guy
you have. Mobs you sam4 I said, but boss still storing.*
*be goys, vkynet yo om .....to play trolbouw? 5ow low eau he rot
I said ....tell. I said, Jame starts from there (points to kmeee) and
gess on
-*Be plays a beat up born.
FORM C TEXT .6.
ChICAGO FOLKSTUFF
."I like to really play second or third cornet. I like the cornet
because it's got more body to it."
.*I remember in Los Angeles. Lewis said, 'who's playin' a lead?
You? You? You?'
"Ms."
"Well, lommor hear it."
*And then the guy goes Pow tulle tulle pow.*
sine's an old circus man and you know how those old circus guys are.*
-*You ruin your lips on a mute.*
-"Mnggey tell him tbout how the guys in Paris'd follow you around.*
"Yeah, alla guys followed me around, Artie Shaw, and guys like that.*
-*You need a ohange of pace."
.*You need arrangements."
.*I was listening to the Chicago symphony orchestra one night and the
Aroabome man took up a solo and he hit the most beautiful meatball I ever
heard. It splattered all over.*
."14S got a request for There'll Be Some Changes Made."
*But he can't play Teach's part."
*Let him play his awn part."
*But people want to hear it with Tesch's part.*
*Hell, let the kid play his own way the way he wants.*
BEWARRAL DIALOGUE
*After the clarinet gay four bars soft...Get it real clean before the
bangout....all right, take it from the clarinet....boy, that's bright, boy...
go barrelhouse...manta run it again....yeah, let's get it in that groveroe..s.
FORM C TEXT -7..
CHICAGO FOLK2iTUFF
let's keep it up there....right after that soft clarinet you gotta beat it
right out...all right, same place, I'm startint to feel it a little bit now...
ah hah, that's it, ah hah...march along now„...we gotta get something to keqp
that rhythm solid, see what else you can at out of them drums....kw play it,
ah hah, aw play it...this'll blend better....how's that aleohol clarinet,.
those old timers get in that two step and you can't get 'em out of it....
You Know, Chicago is a dance town....A, that introduction isn't bad...Well,
throw it down an octave.. .here's an idea, if you wanna get commercial, use the
wa..waa....the idea is the guy is talking to the kid and trying to get him to
go to sleep and he's a sly little kid and the old mania sonnialhim around: see,
that's the idea and we gotta get a tune to intro....how about a pretty four bar
intro for it to carry the idea....let's play it ghrough, we'll get an idea...
we gotta get a sleep idea in....Nobody'll :now it's sleep....I'll get out and
lay down on the dance floor....that's somber though, that's what you want..
when you play these commercial thin -s then you know you're good, everybody knows
we can play hot....we can da da bin' rah da but we got to get the other too...,
play it again till I get the melody (singer) ....I like leads (singer) if it's
played soft."
00016.40.0040.41.4.1.010.
FOLKLORE
FORM D
Extra Comment
C
STATE
NAME OF WORKER ..cise
ADDRESS 7 tret
DATE -.V 18, 1939
SUBJECT Ja.tt M44410 (Ch -“1)
NAME OF INFORMANT 'Algrisy Aianier
OHICADO
havinc a tc tti4, jobs cause ;lousy :)layed like AAvor.
w !oh uaset cousIZere4. this ast of tacte ut Viet time.
loaas a a eaLe to CLioso i. 1222 to -_-4sky at irlar's
Inn. The,
t, Az for the .:Irst tiro uton he voult1 sit in %with the
band. •-0.1 aud Dix Intemied to be 4 omet team,
bands aa a tom, =ugh to t-;gt olegust 0, te leaZere.
,W,C117
laes.d
-ayers ut
t out al -tt it
'Jolumbla dine later. At tile ttma
,eyers, 17us oria o- tio3 "irat sarblit bands. rise‘l at tile -2olumbia logo
:reara, ad the:4st Alto -:,1k7 for two L'Offie :-ro4.1 them: •uctsy joine .1oryd
7owne at t.: -e Id rr1 wL rbe Asiyed with .razA Tsooloaker az,d Joss
'Lacy.
It wen about this time that .ucEsy recorded thoso fine records for
.arcv-ount by llarles ierc a:14 orotiestra. ittur tao ::cars jou Joe
r at tie orry er6e7e or ::our ,:onths.
eV; 4- Mel', illcr the baao
ta4 bbst wore :butte a :11;FrIvi.w:Jd 16
lon vent 7ollere
a lot o 1..icordra, a-Lyng;
FOLKLORE
FORM D
Extra Comment
CHICAGO
ChICG F oLKsTuFF
STATE Illinois
NAME OF WORKER Sam Ross
ADDRESS 713 Rush Street
DATE May 18, 1939
SUBJECT Jess music (Chicago)
NAME OF INFORMANT MUggay Spanier
Born in Chicago November 9, 1906. Educated in grammar sohool: Holy Name
and the Cathedral Seminary. -me of a family of nine childrens the only musician.
Started out as a drummer playing school dances. Heard Joe Oliver, and that inter-
ested him in the cornet. lie told his mother that he wanted to play the cornet so
his mother bought him one. Used to sneak out at night in his brother's long pants
when 12 years old, and go over to hear Joe Oliver's band at the Dreamland Cafe.
Next several years he spent listening to musicians and records, trying to make up
mind whether to take up drums or cornet. At about 14 played first professional
job in Fox Lake with a four piece band, as a drummer. 3rought cornet along and
played a few numbers. Back in Chicago met Jack Pettis and Elmer Schoebelorho
played in a five piece band at the Erie cafe at Clark and Erie. Sat in with tern
and the manager decided to put Lim on a steady job. After two -three monthsohanged
to several other places along qark street, playing with bands that played the same
type of musics.
Net Arnold Loyooano and Earl Wiley and several others from i*ew Orleans.
Formed band under Gene ureen, a vaudeville headliner, and wanted to go to New York
but the Dixieland Jess band was playing there an they were afraid to go to New
oric because sweet music was all the rage so they stayed in Chicago jobbing around,
TEXT
FOLKLORE
FORM D
STATE
NAME OF WORKER
ADDRESS
DATE
SUBJECT
NAME OF INFORMANT
Extra Comment
CLICAGO FOLESTUFF
Illinois
Sam Ross
713 Rush Street
Lay 18, 1939
Jiss Music (Chioggo)
Muggy Spanier
CHICAGO
Early in 1928 while still with hiller, Mtggsy made some especially
fine records with the Chicago hhythm Kings. There'll Be Some Changes Made,
and I Found A New Baby; with Tesdh, Joe Sullivan, Gene Krupa and Red McKenzie.
Ted Lewis was in Chicago at the time and he asked hiuggsy to join the band.
Bs stayed with Lewis seven years, turning down many offers from other bands
because he enjoyed working for Tod. While he was with Lewis the band made
dozens of records, with some especially fine work by Muggy.
In 1930 the band made a tour of Europe, and in London Muggy was the
especial favorite of the then Prince of dales, who liked partioularly the way
Muggy played with a plunger mute. Be met Bilgues Fantasia in Paris and gave
him lots of information about musicians for his book.
The band returned to NY in the fallf 1930. after a vacation Muggy
rejoined Lewis in N.Y where they made records and vent on a tour of the country.
When the band got back to NY Ihiggy made the series of famous records with Jim
Dorsey, Coleman hawkins, i,ound City Blue Blowers, Bennie Goodman. be stayed
with Lewis until 1937 when the band went to Hollywood for several pictures.
Muggy was featured intim iarners Brothers picture, Is Everybody ilippy, a
MGM Here Comes The Band, and several shorts for both outfits.
TEXT 4..
FOLKLORE
FORM D
STATE
NAME OF WORKER
ADDRESS
DATE
SUBJECT
NAME OF INFORMANT
Extra Comment
ChICACO FOLKSTUFF
Illinois
Sam Ross
713 Rush Street
Lay 18, 1939
Jass kusic (Chioago)
Muggsy Spanier
CHICAGO
Larly in 1928 mobile still with Miller, Muusy made some especially
fine records with the Chicago Rhythm Kingss There'll Do Some Changes Made,
and I Found A New Baby; with Ieseh, Joe Sullivan, Gene Krupa and Red McKenzie.
Ted Lewis was in Chicago at the time and he asked biuggey to join the band.
Bs stayed with Lewis seven years, turning down maw; offers from other bands
because he enjoyed working for Ted. While he was with Lewis the band made
dozens of records, with some especially fine work by mugeory.
In 1930 the band made a tour of Europe, ad in London Uuggay vas the
especial favorite of the then Prime of Wales, who liked particularly the way
Muggy played with a plunger mute. he met Hugues Panassio in Paris and gave
him lots of information about musicians for his book.
The band returned to NY in the fall f 1930. After a vacation Muggey
rejoined Lewis in N.Y where they made records and went on a tour of the country.
When the band got back to NY Muggy made the series of famous records with Jim
Dorsey, Coleman hawkins, i,ound City Blue 3lowers, Bennie Goodman. he stayed
with Lewis until 1937 when the band went to hollywood for several pictures.
Muggy was featured in t he Aarners Brothers picture, Is Everybody l'appy, a
MGM Here Comes The Band, and several shorts for both outfits.
FWgforir
FORM r
Extra Comment
CHICAGO
CIJCAGO FOLKSTUY'
STATE
NAME OF WORKER
ADDRESS
DATE
SUBJECT
NAME OF INFORMANT
Illinois
Sam Ross
713 Rush Street
1,,ay 18, 1939
Jazz Music (Chicago)
Muggsy Spinier
Muggsy left California with Lewis on another tour, the season closed
in Philadelphia in December 1936. Went back to. California and joined
Ben Pollack's band. They played Sebastien's Cotton Club, made several
shorts for Selzniok, recorded with Connie Boswell. Was also featured on
Pollack's Piok..A.-ib records. Band toured the east in December 1937.
MUggsy left and in New Orleans in May 1938 and same to Ohioago and played with
several small units while looking for talent for a band that would play his
own particular style of music,.
Ernest Byfield, owner of the Sherman hotel, heard the band and
immediately signed them to play in the Old Town Swing ClUb. Among the
outstanding artists in the band are Geore Brunis, Georre Zack, pianists
Eddie Prini, tenor, Pat Pattisol4 bassi Russ ffinslow, drums; Rod Cl., clarinet.