Document text
r,:g.a47.1--ewragMIRIMPUIPIRFIFFICAU7M7—
*utak 80, 1939.
a. Harley, 0. 3.
loon Do. 1,
Durkee nldg„
nay. Sawnan-ste.,
Juaksonv jibe alorita.
nose ohneherd, writer.
it wile ruining, and the low -hung elouds made the stairway
aM oo:ridors of the old eurkee minding dark, as i turned the knob
on the door of Itoom no. 1 at 2p. m. A dim light shone through the
glass upper half. ubtaining no response, I took a turn the length
of the eorridor and returned, trying the door amain- "Como in,
said a vJioe, und slightly shook the knob to *how that the look
was on.
A t this, the door was opened by a slight man, with lined
f4L:e, faded blue eyes, and thin graying light hair. In answer
to my question asking if he were vr. naeley, he said: "be,
must* nurley,“ and )ntinned to hold the door open about six
inahoe. explained I as interviewing some of the more i)romi-
*tent eitizens rolhtibe to unrecorded history of Jacksonville and
importi,nt events in their lives. Me answered that he would not
b tu. outhori4 on history, and nothing iTlportunt had ever hap-
pened in his life. iiothing daunted, j then told him I was trying
to 100(.40 u rather remarkable topigraphieul map of eirwksonville
of the 1880's, i understood he had a valuable aolleution of florida
maps of different ',Iriods, and thought he miAtt be able to help me
identify this partioular map, or perhaps he ml ht have a copy.
"Come rikr,ht in. i am pretty busy and haven't mush time to
spare, but talk to you for mffew minutes."
4.,nd so the door opened wide and i entered a room, the most
prominent equipment being u large sized drawing board, immuoulate
26027
tt•
Marley, o.
Z.
in its neatness a noz oover of light wrapping paper having been
recently adjurtod with thumb Wilts and in the center a squat
lamp, its motel shade pollod almost to the bottom of the single
small bulb, gave tho dim light i had soon ralsotod through the
door. .6n old-fashioned wiokor armohair and two straight chairs
wero in a row along the east wall of the long room, which faced
the_ north whore two long unourtained windows looked out on bay
utrest. All the chairs were filled with tightly rolled maps and
blueprints. un the floor, more maps, more blueprints in steaks
between the chairs, with the exception of two high cushioned
stools flanking each side of tho drawing board, there owl no oth•
er furniture. The walls wore lined with maps of Florida.
"You have a large collootion of mars?" L vonturod.
"Yon, rawithah," ho drawled d. "About s2,000 worth. sow, hdro
is an old map," he said pointing to one on the west wall, and
speaking oagorly: "It was drawn by brigadier-oonwal bornard,Anginser,
O. D. an member of the Beard of kublio Improvoment, and you
will aoties it bearo the date of 1829, with tha legend 'map of
Florida from Northern boundary to atorn 27 30 even at that
early date, the government and the people of Florida were interested
in a arose -state Gana. xou wiU obsorve on this map two proposed
routed are indicated:
"The first, up the nt. Johns from the ocean, through blaok
ureek to the banta is alver aid into the pt. Johns.
"The second, through the ut. mary's mivors &Grose the ukeil-
fenokeo Dump, an1 almost luo wont to 2ort bt. Joe and the oulf of
Mexico.
"These are the first recorded rocords of efforts to obtain
a ship °anal through ylorida.
Marley, U. 3.
"Barge .anal re no longer popular. the least depth of
water possible for an efficient intraooastal waterway is eight to
ton feet. ship eanal would have to be deeper. in the early
days, shipping interests 4111 private yacht owners wJre satisfied
with five or six feet depth to a burgo °anal, but new even these
hLive to be deeper.
"You have read my artiole in the Plorida nistoricel iiociety
,uarterly utout aloridu maps, and the early rspamish map of 1763,
which is in ma oolleetionY"
told him i had, Laid coneidered it very seholarly and quite
enlightening.
"Now here is a map which will finally beoome oustamary and
will be extensively used aerial maps or maps from the air be-
cause they shov detail so verfeetly. In all old style maps, there
is alwals the quetion as to their accuracy; if they are not uJow.
rate, they have no value."
Here he picked up an aerial photograph of u subdivision in
the suburbs of miami, taken from an airplane several hundred feet
up, si!le about twelve by fourteen inches.
*See this ii: tie while crows over on the northr he questioned,
indicating a white mark about an eighth of an inch. "Well, that
is a cross nude by tying two forty by forty yard sections of utp,
bleached calico (muslin; and opposite, just adjoining this roadway,
you will sew another v: hits cross made in the same mariner* between
those two crosses is exactly one mile. l'hie picture with this unit
of measurement gives us the scale from which a map of the section
owl be drawn with the greatest aoCuraoy as to detail shown by the
view. The roads, highways,.or railroad tracks offer the most (tow,
Harley, u.
venient system of bounduries on which to astablish markers.
"nap making changes in style.evor so often. by the way, did
you notice in the 1829 Ylorida map how the engineer drew little neat
four-liabed trees with tent-liko tops to indicate the forest **otiose
of that Period, and the shaded white portions to portray the shores
and barren regionsy fhat ipue the style in those duys.
"The Bemis map you see looking for wee a little before my time
I teatime city ingineer of Jaoksonville in 1890.
"Yes, I am a native of 4ngland, Where was born sixty -odd
yours ago, and where I reeeived my eduaation and training.
"I came to Amoriou in 1886, going first lo nhio, where I
will
reeeived strenuous training in i‘merican methods, whieh i/tell you
about latter on.
fter a your in Jackeonrille„ A. want to work for a railroad,
oompany of texas, which way doing time pioneer work, but came back
to Juokson ills in 1891, first as assistant, then finally eity engi-
neer, viers I remained until practically 1898. During this period
I was Count, lingineer as well.
"At that time the engineer's office was located at the foot
of market Street on the waterfront. The members of the board of
Public Works, by whoa I was employed, were: Dr. John Lidinglo,
James A. Shoemaker, und aeorge A. DeOottes, and they served without
pay. The department of tLe city waterworks and other divisions of
the eit4 and county were governed by different boards. I do not
now remember any of their names. .Dr. Henry nobinson, I remember,
was one of the mayors of Jaoksonville in my term of service.
"We were kept busy at that time in laying out the streets
of expanding Jacksonville, also building the sidewalks and laying
a now sewer system. At this period the bridge at bridge Street
(now called Brand StreetJ was built over the railroad tracks beating
Ads 1. Barley, U. 36
11.
into smock:1m where the present concrete strueture is; we also
paved a number of streets with vitrified brie, an well as certain
portions of our county roads with Plorida flintroek. Sven in those
early days when funds were United, the oity did extend its main
sewers out to deep water in the tits Johns Xiveir.
"I sometimes think the gentlemen who served the city without
pay deeerve more redit than the preeent-dey city offleisle who
make a political football of their °Mee, and do not always use
the best judgment or consult and consider the people as to their
baste interests in the administration of the city's affairs.
"At that tine Jacksonville had a population of &round 40,000
to 60,000, a ()comparatively small place. of course, it has grown
very rapidly wince the Ylorida suet West Xallway vas extended to
and Mamie
west eels seaohif and th4t eeetion developed.
*Tale is a benuron imp of Jaoksonville a plat nap of 188b
showing the extent of the city at that time*" he said, crossing
the room and indicating a large nap on the east wall.
slier s is one of the latest government maps, a new system of
triangular -coordination" he went on, pointing to a oomparatiliely
new map adjoining, with triangular markings all along tke border.
*You will observe hundreds of lines conneeting places to-
gether. There is practically no portion of the state of Yloridis
that has not been triangulated. This nap le first and foremost for
the purpose of asoertaining Ihe coast line on each .id of the pen-
insula of Oloridu. You will see a number of rivers triangulated
and the rroposed slorida ship canal route; in fact, there is very
little more work to be done to bring this nap up to date. this
system may be a little monfusing, but its name Iplame-oeordinations-
is not difficult to understand.
A.. ts Rail4q, C.
6.
"!Carly surveyors muds their traverses in a north and south
direction, und un east and west direction. But this proposed
method will connect up the entire state, and the position of one
settlement in gay, the northwest quarter of the state can be very
readily approximated by its distanee, say, to Cocos or itookledge
flown on the east coast.
"The purposes of the map are many. then extensive develop-
ments are under way, especially should a speedway be built eventually,
in order to nave dietanoes and avoid dangerous railroad crossings,
and other good and sufficient reasons, this map will be of extreme
importanoe.
"Yurther, in regard to this subject of plane -coordination,
a bill will probably be introduced into tin next Legislators per-
mitting the description of property by plane-000rdination as an
alternative to that whim is now in use of location by section,
township end range, of land in the state of ilerido.
"The very probable adoption of the plow -coordination system
in the bear future should warrant boys in the higher grades to
study a little more vigorously the ordinary rules of trignometry.
Hardly any boy leaves school or college now whose training in
mathematic)* ie worth a hurrah.
"It is absurd, of course, to believe that any 'shoal in
engineering can give sufficient instru,stion in mathematics to
carry an v. K. through institutions of higher learoina the fins
points must invariably come from experience certain things Seitudan
cannot learn in school, but must get from his employers because in
school It Was not forced into his mind sufficiently.
4%. d. Barley, C. 7.
"After I left sohool in 'Augland, my first job was with the
London-fiorthwestern itailroad. You know in tinglend the govornment
owns transportation lines an4 other public utilities, so the rally(
road system is well planned for officient operation, and the train-
ing off'rod in my first assignment was thorough laid ‘irthutioal.
"When I oaten to hmorloa, A seoured work with an engineer of
the dtate et uhio. It seemed i-ipofisible to eleaso him; ever7thing
did was criticized for its bud points and poor exeoution, the good
points, if thoro w:re any, ,ere minimized, und he had no hesitancy
in raving and cursing his office force for itsA stupidity, oolleotive-
ly and individually. I did not enjoy my service there. Re kept ins
on duty until 11 or 12 o'clock at night, that called me at 6 in the
morning for some spooial work. I did my best, but he was mit eatie-
fled; it was dash blank: blanket: dash blank: all the
time. it seomed j. was to blame for everhinT that went wrong. I
had made up my mind, Yshon this particular job Was completed., I would
love, so one morning i told my iseployer I was leaving that day.
He said: 'You aro not going,' and j. replied: "Yes, 1 um going
down south.'' lie said; '3o, you're not. You are not going any
whore. I have just secured a government contract for dredging,
widening, and improving the muskinguis laver, and you ere going with
me as rki assistant at double your rrrosent salary.'
":.A:) it turnect out the severe training he subjected me to
was only to test me; to aecertain if I 4OUld work under diffioult
situations, could competently execute work under strain and in
the face of discouragement in other words, what stamina i. had,
ape, my abiliti to carry on in the I told of engineering.
"I believe in alloy ing the mind to develop naturally. ?or
instanue, take a group of children and ;riving thorn paint and drawing
A. Av Harley, U.
8
material, not as a matter of keeping than out of mischief, but to
learn if there is any talent for the work. If only one of the
group shows an aptitude for dolineation or intelligence in his as-
sociation of colors, then 04ve him an opportunity to develop this
talent by all cleans. mass education in wrong.
"Children Should be allowod to mako their awn selection, and
thus avoid tho loss of time spent in seviral years, training in a
school or college when thou are not likely to continue in that par-
ticular line of work.
"vhen in high sdhool 4 remember i used to have to spend sev-
eral hours eaoh niht studying Latin; I had no inalination for
languages, espeoially a dead language, yet i was roquirod to learn
it, and j. have Lover had any nractical use for it to this day. A
physioian or lawyer probably has more use for Latin, but for most
stuAonts it is a loss of valuable time. I did have a natural talent
for mathematics trignometry, oaloUlue, :maid and took delight
in moving a nroblem in thn various methods.
"It is surprising to ma the oomparativelx little tuition now
given to mental arithmetie. ;Ample problems like 6 ti es 11 minum
20 divided by 2 and multiplied by 4 dealing with addition, sub-
traJtion and multiplication, should be Yorked out without reoourse
to potion and napar, but ly seems childron are now given no training
in mental arithmatio.
"Vocational training should be foremost in all educational
eyste!_s. tork vith the child as an individual; find out what ton
denotes and abilities ho may have, than allow the mind to develop
naturally along thaws spouts). lines. That is the ma tug of geniuses.
A. A. Harley, k;. 10.
"Another young man who has done somo wonderful work came
to me here as an ordinary Irodmak and ohainman. During the world
war I was on engineering duty near nordaaux, and was surprised
one day whan a young man oamo to attention and saluted, to recop-
nize him an one of the young men i had said goodbye to in Jackson-
ville. He told me ho was then on board a submarine vessel 24
hours on duty and 24 hours off duty, and spoke of his exporienoes
in this submarine chaser jumping from wave top to wave top, und
being thrown from one side of the vessel to the oth,r conitantly.
"This young man on hip raturn to Olorida was employed by
the u. 3ngineer's office on the ot. John" sivor work. Thua he
obtained positions tith several different states in road depart-
ment work, until finally he was employed by the rot of Mew York
Authority in rovidinig, suitable approaohes to recent bridges
that ppm the nudeon niver, i order that vehioular traffic coal
be !yroporly Provided for. This young man is now the father of a
family, and has reoeivod many citations mud honorary degrees for
his splendid work in the sngineering profession. He is often ealled
upon by oolleges to come th)re and looture to certain students on
engineering problems. Thin young man is Charles no/ntosh moble.
mhhon he returned to Jaieksonwille on a visit a few years ago,
he 'as invited to address the local snginaers Club, and also spoke
before other organizations regarding his work, and it was reported
very faithfnily in the Florida times -union.
understand ho is now enginoer for the state of rennsylvamia
and has taken °Tor railroad work, including overpass's, und straight-
ening out the old roadbeds which will finally be converted into a
public thoroughfare.
A. I. Harley, 9. -1. 10A.
"I resigned my work in Jacksonville in 1898 to acoept t.
position on the etaxt of floury is. /Flaglor, who sum then developing
the Atlantic seaboard of slorida through the extension of his
rlorila suet uoset nailway.
"I went to miring isecteh an laid out the oity of staid
while h was then a swamp, und the only thing indicating a tom was
u. boarding house and three barroom, and one little store.
"My training in uhio with the eroohety old engineer steed
me in goal service then, as the prospeet was very discouraging.
mosquitoes, malaria, heat and see thisy" he slaid, pointing
to a d.ressed skin of a largo diamondbook rattlesnake strehod
out on the float, arparently ten feet long. "There wore plSn-
of those. Although, a must say, this part iaular one was not
very hard speeimen to deal with, as he seemed sick, and woo bed
little trou.blki in dlepatehing hin.
"I continued with ilagler for a number of years, laying out
other tcx me on tha east coast, then did some ork for real est&to
promoters, ooming back to JaJksonville Titter() I have Blame been
,InRag,ed on -rivilta ,Iontruots.
"Hy long exparianuo in rlorida and dealing with a groat
many neophytes in engineering hue led so to oxamins their leek,
of education, or perhaps I should say, the shortuomings of the
system under which they are trained.
"The qualifidatiOne of a lot of boys -in eoliege ure perhaps
a mistake, and mena-.; arid time are lost, whereas u more oureful
study of the young mind would develop geniuses, for which there
is always a demand.
"The work, for example, of major eaves in the field of musi-
cal training and edueation. The man who does the employing can
quiokly 800 if the individual has any aptitude for the work for
which he expects to oolleet pay. Of course, willingness iE al-
ways oommeniable, but there is a waste of time in trying to de-
velepeany individual for vaeanciee that are riot to his liking
or his natural ability to master.
"Of course it would be a :moat mistake to glut the market
eith people developed along en* Am* or one profession; the
individual eharaoter and ability of a student should always .be
kept to the fore.
"I remember as a child in ngland, we were kept busy and
taught a great deal at home. My father was a great help in this.
we eolleeted stamps throughout the oountry and from foreign lands,
-but my father had already sturted those oolleotions and helped
us on. The *lame way we colleeted coins, adding to those he al-
ready had, thus learned their value. When J. tam an army engineer
in trance during the world War, I had no trouble in figuring out
the rates of exohange whet tills came in, an j had been taught
to figure in pounds, shilling, farthinge, and pone., as well as
;ranee and marks, in addition to dollars and cants; while in other
departments there was great to-do in trying to make adjustments
on prop** payment of a Prenoh invoioe for supplies. Sometimes the
check T4ould be returned and the whole matter referred to the u. S.
Department at washington, then bank to 'ranoe again, taking weeks,
Marley,
12.
befora the proper amount in .u. -.0nohangooufl bo arrivad, at and
the aorreot chock dant.
"Then we children )re put to *ark in the garden, each given
a plot of ground and the atime inambor of plants or seeds, Lind
*ould vie with each othfir in tryin..7 tc vow things, giving Ihem
the greatost care a.=.1. attention, itit rey father standi g ready
to aorreat or advise.
"The lack of purontal interest and dinciplino„ i beliave, is
one fault of our nrosent-day eduoation. My father always had time
to spend with his ohildron, but paronts nowadays rush about too
muoh, laving a rtat daal of their work to servants, or allowing
their children to run around without any supervision, expecting
them somehow or other to turn into fine oitixene; vhile disoipline
and eduaLition arc left ontirely to tau:hars.
"And this WP/ is a mess. If they want lalm•Amonts eflioiento
why don't they put the right 'eoPle at the heady System affi clan-
oy orderliness, of uourse, if it is just eao.ttor of some kind
of work any kind to earn monaw to keep -eoplo from Ecing hungry,
that is a different matter.”
"'Yes, bat out of it all some people, in faat, a grout many
of thorn, are getting a particulL:.r training in this government work
that viii rehabilitate thxn and fit thom for welt along a pArtiou•
lar lint that thay thomaelves never could afford- or biLve had the
opportunity for training," I vontured, "and this is along your
theory of individual devolopmant."
eII, I 11,0.d nav)r thought of that, or in thb.t particular
light. I suppose you are right."
It was now iiourly 5 p. m. and he cordially shook hands as
he said goodbye.