Document text
Forms to be Filled out for Esph Interview
FORMA
Circumstances of Interview
STATE New York
NAME OF WORKER A. Fitzpatrick.
ADDRESS 327 East 145th St. Bronx, N. y, C.
DATE October 20, 1938
SUBJECT REMIITANCESt MIL G. HALE.
1. Date and time of interview
2. Place of interview
October 19, 1938 1. P. M.
At Home 322 42nd St. City.
1/7
FOLKLORE
NEW YORK
3. Name and address of informant George a1e, 322 East 42nd St. City,
4. Name and address of person, if any, who put you in
touch with informant. H. Leonard NT. A Store.
144th St. Third Av.
5. Name and address of person, if any, accompanying\you
None
8. Description of room, house, surroundings, etc.
Informant resides in a small roam on the top floor, re*, in a rooming house
at the above address. It is neatly furnished with bed 4ir and dresser.
A washing sink is also in the room. A small rug on the fl or. There are clothing
stores underneath and on the opposite side of the street is çy Cro C.
Church. In the same block, a few doors toward the West, is Ihe McGraw -'Hill
building.
(Use as many additional sheets as necessary, for any of the forms, each
bearing the proper heading and the -number to which the material refers.)
FORM
Personal History of Informant
STATE mew Iork
NAME OF YORKER A. Fitzpatrick
ADDRESS 327 East 145th S. Bronx N. Y. C.
DATE October 20, 1938
SUBJECT REMIACENCESt NR. G. HALE.
1. Ancestry Irish
2. Place and date of birth Cayuga County, City of Auburn. N. Y. S.
FOLKLORE
NEW YORK
3. Family Family consisted of Wife, Son and Daughter. (Informant is now
divorced.)
4. Places lived in, with dates Present address 322 West 42nd St. City. Resided
there, three weeks to date. Former address, 324 West 42nd St. 18 months.
Prior to latter resided at 463 E. 158th St. three years and for five years
5. EducatiorrakiF6dAesthat 367 East 167th St, Bronx.
Public School and High School Graduate.
6. Occupations and accomplishments, with dates
Newspaperman, intermittently, from 1920 to 1934, Free-lance work 1934 to date.
Also carpentry off and on, (Non Union).
7. Special skills and interests
Short story writing.. Interviewing, mechanics and books.
8. Community and religious activities
Religion, Catholic Active in Parohhial affairs
9. Description of informant
About five feet six inches in height. Weight is about 148 lbs. Age 51
?Exceptionally neat in appearance. Strikes one as above the average in
in-
telligence. Is a deep thinker.
10. otner Points gained in interview
Very co-operative and sociable. Quick to grasp a situation. Quite conversational
and although having experienced tragedy in a miamated marriage, (Me is divoroed
since 1935), has evidently adjusted himself to a situation beyond his control,
FORM B CONTINUED
Despite the foregoing he has a fine head of hair, grey lacking and, although
51 years of age, has the appearance of a man much younger in years.
It may be added that Mr. Hale is a recipient of Home Relief. He has
been without steady income for many years.
The informant's paternal Grandfather, a native of Co,1 Limerick. Ireland,
arrived in the United States in 1850. Be was a Union soldier in the Civil War.
The resultant folk -lore tales were garnered by the Grandson
(the informant) from his Grandfather who was a great story teller. Mr. Hale
states that the stories, two of which are herewith submitted, are true and that
he has always had thereatest respect for his Grandfather's veracity and beliefs.
M. Bale Se& died in 1926.
FORM C
Text of Interview (Unedited)
STATE New York
NAME OF WORKER A. Fitzpatriok
ADDRESS 327 East 145th St. Bronx N. Y. C.
DATE October 20, 1938
SUBJECT REMIACENOESt MIL. G. HALE
WHAT DID IHEY SEE?
FOLKLORE
NEW YORK
*Ireland is too well noted for it's implicit belief in the supernatural,
that goes without saying.
There is hardly an Irishman or an Irishwoman that has not had some kind
of personal experience of their own, back in the old country. An experience of
something uncanny and inexplicable. My Grandfather, I recall, once told me of
an incident that had no solution. Here it is; find the answer yourself.
His folks were well to do, owning a very large farm in 0o[, Limerick.
Of oourse he had, as all farmers over there have, some cattle, some sheep, dogs
and chickens. He had six dogs, two of whom were very ferocious. These two were
so vicious that my Grandfather had rings put in their noses by which they were
kept tied to the house. At night he released them and God pity the tramp or anyone
that tried to get into the property.
One night, about ten o'clock; (my grandfather was still up at the time)
the dogs suddenly started to snarl and growl at something they seemed to see in
the distance. They suddenly jumped off the porch and ran towards a hedge some
75 feet distant. Well, whatever it was, when they reached the hedge they immediately
-2
stopped and turning tail, ran back and into the house, a terrific fear in their
eyes and the hair all bristling on their backs with their tails between their legs.
They went under the beds and for two days they could not be budged.
Some weeks later there was a repetition of the same occurance, but this
time there was a development. The horses, (there were two of them), were loose
the grounds. When they saw the dogs running as before, towards the same spot in
the hedge, they ran too, but when the dogs, (whatever they saw), set up a howl
and turned to run back to the house; the horses jumped the hedge and it is a
positive fact, they WERE NEVER SEEN AGAIN. My Grandfather requested the neighbors
to keep an eye out for them but they had vanished as if into the thin air. There
never was an explanation.
TOM SHEA AND THE WIDOW
My Grandfather, when he choose, could speak as good English as the
next one, but in his story -telling, he would lapse into the dialect of the lOuld
Sod', and one, unfamiliar with the vernacular, might find it difficult to understand.
We, as kids always looked forward to the evening, especially in the Winter, when
we'd gather around the parlor stove watching the awing coals .through the isinglass
door.
At such times, when Grandadwas sitting down, all he needed was his old
corn -cob pipe and an appreciative audience. After the story was over veld climb
up the steep stairs to a cold bedroom, to dream of fairies bringing a much desired
gift or possibly, as often happened, to toss about in troubled sleep, trying to
escape from the goblins that Grandad's story had created for us.
We always knew when a story was coming when we'd see him with a
sulphur match held over his old pie. He'd take a few tugs, settle back in the
old rocker and with one glance at us all, would say, 'And you, Denny Hogan,
(a neighbor's boy), 'Wan laugh, or 'eon a chuckle and I'll tell ye no more,
d'ye moind?'. This threat usually produced the desired effect and when he was
assured of a quiet and respectful audience he'd heave a long sigh of contentment
and begin the story.
'Known as honest and as tome a man as iver the saints let breathe,
and YOU there, Dinny Hogan, ask ye're Father, he knew him too- Tom Shea was
a hard workin' man. He was about 40 years ould and lived in a little shack that
he built himself.
He had three pigs, 35 chickens, a cow and a horse, but most 'av the
time he worked for neighboring farmers. He spent little or no time in the Village,
savin' his money and living a quiet life.
He had wan ambition and that was to save enough money to marry the
Widow Callaghan, buy a larger farm and raise children. Be always contributed
to the Church and it's charities, attended the Masses, helped his fellow man
and in general was an upright God-fearing man.
Adjacent to Tam's place was a muoh larger farm with a much bigger house.
Was it vacant because it's tenants migrated to America. It's real owner, an
absentee English Landlor, was reputed to be a cruel, greedy miser, determined to
A
get the last cent from the poor tenants.
Well, to awn this place was Tam's long cherished dream, If he secured
it he could ask the Widow Callaghan for her hand.
Now we're coming to it. *an
night, after a particularly hard day in the field, he retired early to bed and
had hardly gotten to sleep when a voice whispered in his ear; 'Tom, ---Tom,
make up and go to the cliff'.
At first he was too tired to be aroused but finally the voice became
louder and more insistent and after hearing the voice three times, Tom got up
dressed and with the voice still ringing in his ears he left the house. There
was only wan place that he could go and wan placd that could have been meant,
so Tam went there.
He stood on the brink of the cliff in the light of a full moon wander-
ing what to do next, when a voice coming from somewhere down below ----hollered
'Help me. Help me: Well, being well acquainted with the nature of the cliff,
Tom knew of a spot, about 200 feet down, where the voice seemed to be calling
for help and the ledge could only be reached by goin' down to the bottom and
eliming up a long narrow pathway. So he started off.
It was a long tedious journey, goin' all the way down and half may up,
but eventually he finally reached the spot and what did he find? There was
white haired old man, lying prostrate on the rocky ledge, blood oozing from
numerous cuts and in a bad way.
He carried him back, a task that took him several hours, to his shack,
hitched his horse to the shay and went to the, village to the Doctor. The Doctor,
after examining him found that he had atroken leg in addition to his many wounds,
He told Tom to take him back to his shack and, under no circumstances to move him,
promising that he would call on him the next day and every day until he had
recovered sufficiently to return to his own home.
Tam took him home as ordered, and put him to bed and a few days after
he was recovered enough to talks Be identified himself as the absentee landlord
of the place that Tom had so long coveted and desired. It seems that he had
arrived in the village to look over his property had lost his my and unfortunately
fell over the cliff.
After a number of weeks, convalesing at Tom's place he was a new man
again. He learned of Tam's desire to town the property and in a feeling of
gratitude for the care that he had received at Tan's hands gave him the property,
free and clear, for his very awn. Of course I need not say that Tan went for the
Widow, hell bent for leather, and in a short time after a hasty courtship they got
married, raised a nice family and as the sayin' goes, 'Lived happily ever after.'
But Tom, to this day, knew that he never would have gotten anywhere if
it was,nt for the voice of the little man that woke him out of his sleep that
night and, knowins of his desires and his ambitions, set out to help him. Maybe
the same little man made the landlord fall over the cliff. ?Mat do you think?
-6
THE LITTLE COBBLERS
Here is another tale that I remember hearing my Grandad tell.
I cannot recall the place where he said that it happened. It
was somewhere out in the West of Ireland, if I remember rietly.
It appears that there was a family by the name of McGuiness.
They owned a litthe farm of about thirty acres and not such a lot of
stock, just a few chickens, a horse, a few pigs and a cow. The family
consisted of the husband, James, his wife and five children. They
were anything but well-to-do, starving most of the time. Things went
from bad to worse, and the husband, from worrying, fell sick and died.
The widow decided to carry on for the sake of the children and
did manage, to get by, through being frugal and thrifty. But she never
could buy anything, like clothes, shoes and such -like, that were nes-
cessary to a large family like hers.
Of course she could patch up the children's clothes when it was
needed, which was almost all of the time, but their shoes were what
worried her most. And they were in bad shape, what with the holes in
them and being lopsided at the heel, and some without any sole at all.
One night, after the children were all put to bed, she looked
at their shoes and the tears came into her eyes. What could she do?
The summertime was all right for the tots. They could run around bare-
footed and no harm would befall them, but here was winter only a few
weeks away and she didn't want them catching a heavy cold which might
develop into something more serious, that eventually might mean opening
the grave and putting them alongside her beloved husband, James.
In desperation she sat down and tried to figure a way out. Then,
suddenly, a thought came to her. She had once heard that the little
men, the Leprechauns, were cobblers by trade, and if they knew of her
plight they surely would help her. Anyway, she knelt down and with all
the faith and sincerity in her voice she told them of her situation
and begged them to help her.
She was so sincere in her plea that something within her assured
her, somehow, that her prayer would be answered. With light heart she
started to sweep up the kitchen floor, which, as most Irishmen in the
rural districts in Ireland know, was just the simple earth. She wanted
the place to be clean when the little men arrived, as she surely knew
they would.
She went to the cupboard, and although there wasn't much there,
she fixed up a little meal for th
airies in case they were hungry.
And then, after putting two fresh candles on the table, she took the
five little pairs of dilapidated shoes and a worn pair of her own and
placed them in front of the fire. This done, she went in a happy mood
to bed, to await the results that the morning would bring.
During the night, she fancied she heard the strains of soft
music down below in the kitchen. But thinking she was dreaming, she
went to sleep again. Again she woke up with the music in her ears, and
unable to sleep further, and with a bit of curio7Asity in her mind, she
got out of bed and tiptoed to the head of the stairs. Then not able
to restrain her curiosity further, softly came down, step by step,
noticing that the music seemed to be getting louder.
The door to the kitchen was closed when she reached it. She
pushed it open a crack and peeked in, and lo and beholdl what did she
see? The candles had all burned out but the room was full of a strange
light --where it came from, she couldn't see --and right in the middle of
the floor, dancing around six new pairs of shoes, were forty or maybe
fifty little fairies, having the time of their lives. On the table
were all the platesy-where she had piled the food --empty. She stood
spellbound for quite awhile and, knowing that if she went into the
roam she'd break the spell and perhaps cause hard luck to fall on her,
she went softly back to her room. In the morning, when she came down,
-8
there were the new shoes, just as she saw them during the night --and
the marks of little feet in the earthen floor, all ground them.
Needless to say, to the day of her death, she will always up-
hold the Leprechauns and list them first in her category of friends.