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U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPES # 1, 2 & 3
February 28, 1993
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Tape 1!
MR. KAVANAUGH: Sunday the 28th of February.
Telephone ringing! Indiscernible female
voice in the background.!
I MR. KAVANAUGH: I'm going to mess up this
gentleman's desk, he's going to hate agents when we
leave this place.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I dOn't know,
if you leave indiscernible! David's got our number.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Do they have any activity out
there? !
Telephone ringing!
TELEPHONE OPERATOR: Cellular One customer --
Telephone ringing!
MR. KAVANAUGH: Go out and check Penny with
Phil or Chuck or Krone. I think we might have lost one
of our walkies over there and they may have it or may
have to re-code all the radio traffic or they're going
to listen to everything we say, so -- well, because the
team might have lost one there. So many men were shot
they dropped -- are they -- well, just check for us --
he ain't answering.
Indiscernible female voice in background.!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Steve Snyder,
S-N-Y-D-E-R indiscernible!.
M. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, okay, so and tell Krone
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he needs to make arrangements with the communications
people, you know, Scheidler, to reprogram all our
radios.
Telephone ringing!
MR. KAVANAUGH:
stuff off
corner orCould you clean all this
this desk that's not ours and stack it in the
something? Telephone ringing!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Indiscernible!
car Beverly Road.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
out, there's a car going down
find out, there's a car going
MR. KORESH: I wish
through.
MR. KAVANAUGH:He ain't picking up.
SPEAKER: We need to find
Beverly Road. We need to
down Beverly Road.
you knew what I've been
David, listen now, I --
you've explained them to me and --
MR. KORESH: No, no, I haven't. I've not
even scratched the surface. Just like I told, just
like I told Jerry, Jerry Gonzalez --
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH: --
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH: --Yeah.
Robert Gonzalez --
Yeah.
I really liked that guy too.
I've always loved law enforcement because you all guys
risk your lives every day, you know.
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MR
MR. KORESH: And --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Let me --
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH:
that. Listen, let me ask
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH= Your, your
can you tell me anything about their
just concerned for --
MR. KORESH: They're, they
am, that's for sure.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Not as bad
MR. KORESH: No.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Is anybody
blood that --
MR. KORESH: NO.
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- that we
get some medical --I4
. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, I understand.
I'm so, I'm so sorry that --
David, listen, we, we know
you something.
other wounded men,
condition? I, I
re not as bad as I
as you are?
losing so much
can't help them
MR. KORESH: No, they're, they're bandaged
up. They're up and around.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Have you got them bandaged
up?
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Okay, and you think
they're stable?
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MR. KORESH: Well, yeah, they're up walking
around. u
MR. KAVANAUGH: How are you doing? How is
that wound in the stomach?
u MR. KORESH: It's, it's -- like I said, it's,
it's bleeding in both directions, you know, the --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Bleeding bad, huh?
MR. KORESH: They got these towels wrapped
around my waist and stuff and, and, you know,
squeeze --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Now see, you
keep -- you got to keep, you know, some -- little
pressure on that because it slows down the bleeding.
You got somebody can help you with that?
MR. KORESH: Well, it's -- the towel's real
tight --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Tight, yeah.
MR. KORESH: -- the tourniquet, you know.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah. Anything else hurting?
MR. KORESH: Just my feelings.
M. KAVANAUGH: Your feelings, hey listen,
don't worry about that. We're, we're trying to, you
know, get this solved, and -- are you feeling sick or
dizzy or anything?
M. KORESH: That's the way I've been ever
since I've been talking to you, but, you know, feel,
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you know, anyway --
MR . KAVANAUGH : Yeah .
MR. KORESH: But like, you know, like I say,
let's, let's get some preachers and teachers and stuff
and get - give me a call and, and tell them to show me
the truth, you know?
MR. KAVANAUGH: You know, I, I don't think
there's two guys in the world other than you and me
that can solve this and --
MR. KORESH: I know, see, there you're,
you're doing your job. Come on, you know, you're
playing --
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, I'm, I'm being truthful
with you, David, I, I want it --
MR. KORESH: Oh, come on.
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- I want it to stop and I
know you do too, come on.
MR. KORESH: You know there's no way to stop
this until, like I told you, just give me the coverage.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, I --
MR. KORESH: If you let those, if you let
those men, the so-called [cut off and on] let them talk
to me, you know what I mean? And let them show me the
seals where they're at in the Bible.
_ MR. KAVANAUGH= Well, you one thing, David,
if, if you would let us help you, you know, your
I
message would continue, your word would go out.
MR. KORESH: Look, look, I didn't hurt any
[cut off and on]
MR. KAVANAUGH: I, I understand that.
A MR. KORESH: indiscernible! some of the
people that are following shot people, all right?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Let me ask you --
MR. KORESH: Now, I'm responsible for that,
okay? In 1988 when the Sheriff's Department wouldn't
get George Roden off the property --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah -- yeah.
MR. KORESH: It was '88, and -
MR. KAVANAUGH: '87, '88, yeah.
MR. KORESH: -- we went down to the Sheriff
Department and we told them look, you know, we've got
restraining order against him. They're doing bad
things. They dug up one of the caskets out here and
the guy was crazy, thought he could resurrect people.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: And so that stuff [cut off and
on] and they won't go out there. So I hired a guy
named Sam Jones to come out and he was kind of like a
friend of George, you know. And he took the pictures
and we took them back up in '88 to the Sheriff's
Department.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hold on, what's that, okay?
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Hey, David?
MR. KORESH: Yeah? g
MR. KAVANAUGH: I just got the word that --
from the radio people. Okay. Hold on just a second,
I'm talking to David. If you will give me your message
they will play it.
MR. KORESH= I've got to, I've got to do it.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, they, they said they
don't have the equipment for that.
MR. KORESH: Well, they do. I deal with
radio audio technology. Transfer from, from waves over
to analog.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Just tell him that
David's got to -- he wants to do it himself, see what
they can do. All right. That, that -- let
me --
MR. KORESH: And after that, and after that
like I say, you know, I just want to -- they never
would be honest with me before, they never would
confront me because when I first started opening they
always ran off --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: -- started cussing me and stuff,
you know, in a religious way --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: -- you know, and told me I was
crazy and all that, but they're looking right at a
book. You know if there's a God in Heaven, they're in
trouble, now I'm in trouble.
MR. KAVANAUGH: David, how are the kids
doing? Anybody -
MR. KORESH: They're, they're eating right
now.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Eating? Okay.
MR. KORESH: They, they keep fit -- I love
you daddy groaning sound!.
MR. KAVANAUGH: They're pretty scared. I
guess they're scared aren't they?
MR. KORESH: No, they're not scared.
MR. KAVANAUGH: No scared? Okay. Well, we
don't want nothing to happen to them and I kmow you
don't either [cut of and on].
MR. KORESH: Yeah said something about mean
men, I told them, I said they aren't really mean men,
they're just, they're just doing what they --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
message.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Dave, do you got somebody
there taking care of you?
MR. KORESH: Yeah, they're - you know,
they're, they're - like I said, we got some nurses and
AMR. KORESH= - because no one like's daddy's
,
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they've tourniquet me and they, they want to give me
some alcohol and I said no, I, I don't want - I
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, don't drink alcohol. No,
that's not good.
MR. KORESH: No, that thins the blood and all
that and --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, you -- it'll, it'll
make you bleed, yeah.
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Don't do that.
MR. KORESH: So --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, we don't want you to
bleed. Are you in a comfortable position?
MR. KORESH: No, there's no comfortable
position, my friend.
MR. KORESH: Can, can you stand up?
MR. KORESH: Only - a little.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Little, well, but don't it,
it'll -- you'll hurt, okay?
MR. KORESH: The only comfortable position
right now I guess would be six feet under, huh?
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, buddy, hey, that's not,
that's not it.
MR. KORESH: Hey, that's, that's what they'd
do to me anyway if no one listens to my message.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey --
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MR. KORESH: Come on, it's a federal crime, I
know the laws,_I agree with the laws. I believe bad
guys need to be dealt with. There's too much bullshit
in the world, okay? There's too many people that
molest children, too many people that hurt people for
their own selfish gain, all right?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.
MR. KORESH: They need to be dealt with.
That's what Rome -- at least Rome got, got their crime
rate way down, they crucified people, they made an
example of them. But, you know, some, some --
MR. KAVANAUGH: David --
MR. KORESH: -- some of the times they
misjudged, you know, and those are the people
indiscernible! to hear the prayer of Christ for
indiscernible! all my life I never knew what I was
doing indiscernible! if you ever get a kingdom based
upon indiscernible! ignorance please remember
indiscernible!
MR. KAVANAUGH: David, I understand --
MR. KORESH: And I said to them, I says, I
say unto to you today you should be with me in
paradise.
MR. KAVANAUGH: David, I understand and I
believe you, but I want to know what do you think, how
could we resolve this? I mean, how could we save these
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children and women and everybody who -- I mean, how can
we stop anymore of this and come on, you and me can do
it -
MR. KORESH: Why did you start the war?
MR. KAVANAUGH: - you and me can do it.
MR. KORESH: Why did you start the war? Why?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, David, I,
1--
MR. KORESH: Ignorance, right? Man, you know
indiscernible!
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- you, you understand --
MR. KORESH: - you are the bad guys, now you
found out we are indiscernible! okay?
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, you're not the bad guys,
you, you, you understand --
MR. KORESH: Look, my father - I know you
don't [cut off and on] God said I'm going to bring a
flood and the world said no you aren't, and it came.
And God said I'm not going to bring a flood and the
world says yes you will and they built this tower
indiscernible! the Tower of Babel, Tower of Babel, and
babel means confusion.
MR. KAVANAUGH: I understand.
MR. KORESH: Indiscernible! working together
trying to plan, plan a salvation against the next
coming flood and God said no so he went and changed
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their languages and confounded their, their words and
sent them to different parts of the then known land and
divided the nations. That's why all nations look like
a puzzle; they once fit together.
MR. KAVANAUGH: David, I'm -- if - I'm, I'rn
not having much luck with this radio station. Let me
ask you something --
MR. KORESH: Indiscernible! coming up now?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Huh? I'm sorry? Nobody
should be coming up. Nobody's coming up.
MR. KORESH: Oh indiscernible! like I
said --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Now listen, let me ask you
this --
MR. KORESH: The only --
MR. KAVANAUGH: I, I'm having ~-
MR. KORESH: They're still coming, my friend.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Who is?
MR. KOREsH= The, the agents.
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, there are no agents
coming.
MR. KORESH: Yes, they are.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Nobody's --- <
MR. KORESH: We're watching them get closer
and closer.
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, we - they were, they '
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were pulling back to the highway. They're, they're
DOC --
MR. KORRSH: No, they're not, they're going
down Double-E.
MR. KAVANAUGH: David, I want you to listen
to the radio.
MR. KORESH: He has a white truck, armored,
huh?
MR. KAVANAUGH: I want you to listen to the
radio station at 4:55. We're, we're going to put a
message on for you, but if you want your scripture
message and your word to get out, if you'll tell me I'm
going to try to get it on there. Now, I understand
that it's not the best, the best would be for you to be
on there. I understand that and I appreciate and I
respect it. But I've got to be truthful with you: I
can't -- I'm not going to trick you and I'm having a
lot of trouble doing that. If you will dictane it to
me I guarantee you I will have this guy put it out as
your words, okay? Work with me and, and let's put it
out. I mean, and, and then we can talk about maybe
some of the wounded coming out.
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Let's do it, come on, you and
me can solve this.
MR. KORESH= Okay. Like I say, I told you
{»
before, God didn't say nothing in heaven, right?15
Gave
the book to who? To the indiscernible! to the
indiscernible! right?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, I understand.
MR. KORESH: Okay. Now --
MR.
word-for-word what you want -- wanted to say.
MR. KORESH: Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Word-for-word
and --
MR. KORESH: Is a truck coming in?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Nobodys coming, I,
you my word.
MR. KORESH: Military coming in?
MR.
road there's everybody but they're not coming
nothing, you have my word on it. If you tell
you want to say and I'm going to get it out.
me word-for-word. You want to talk the seven
first?
MR. KORESH: Word on the word.KAVANAUGH: Now, now, you got to give me
I give
KAVANAUGH: Nobody -- well, I mean on the
at you,
me what
Now, give
seals
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Go ahead. Slow now, I
got to write it.
MR. KORESH: Okay. My, my God, who sits on
the throne --
MR. KAVANAUGH: My Father, my God, wait a
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minute, sits
MR.
MR.
MR
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR.
MR.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.on the throne --
Has
MR. KORESH: -- Of
KAVANAUGH:
KORESH: In
KORESH: -- thi
KORESH: --
MR. KAVANAUGH: --
MR. KORESH= -- is
MR. KAVANAUGH: Is
MR. KORESH: -- as
KAVANAUGH:
KORESH: --
KAVANAUGH:KORESH: In Heaven.
KAVANAUGH: Okay. All right.
. KORESH: Given me a book --
given me a book.
seven seals.
Seven seals. Okay.
Revelation 10, verse
Revelation 10, verse
s sealed book
Sealed book --
the mystery of God.
the mystery of God
to be finished --
to be finished
God has declared
God has declared
What is --
KORESH: Revelation 22 --7 -_
7.
to his servants the prophets
KAVANAUGH: David, just -- I just want --
what does that mean, Revelation, this sealed bbok,
mystery of God, oh, you know -- you have the sealed
book?
MR. KORESH: Yeah, that's what I was opening
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Go
3]
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ahead.
MR. KORESH: In Revelation 22 --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum. Okay.
MR. KORESH: -- I come --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Every word which is the book
is with me.
MR. KORESH: To give unto every man --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Give unto every man. Okay.
MR. KORESH: -- the knowledge of the seven
seals.
MR. KAVANAUGH: The knowledge of the seven
seals. Okay. Is that all?
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Now listen buddy,
you've got, you've got to hang in there for me. I
don't want you to faint now. Can -- you need to get
those towels changed?
MR. KORESH: Ah --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Why don't you -- do you --
don't hang up.
MR. KORESH: N0.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Just check with your nurses.
Do you want to change and we can just --
MR. KORESH: I've got more blankets here.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. You got some blankets?
Okay. All right. Now, I'm going to read this back to
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you, okay? '
MR. KORESH: Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Because, you know, I'm just
not the greatest writer. I'm going to read this back
to you and you tell me if there's anything you want to
change or if it's what you want, okay? All right. You
ready?
MR. KORESH: Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: My Father, my God, who sits
on the throne in Heaven has given me a book of seven
seals. In Revelation 10, verse 7, this sealed book,
the mystery of God, is to be finished as God,has
declared to his servants the prophets. In Revelation
22, I --
MR. KORESH: Come.
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- come my reward which is
the book is with me to give unto every man the
knowledge of the seven seals. Now, should I say this
message was from David Koresh?
MR. KORESH: David Koresh.
MR. KAVANAUGH: David Koresh.
MR. KORESH: David Koresh.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Koresh.
MR. KORESH: Koresh.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Now, I'm going to get
this on, and let's you and me agree [gap]
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MR] KORESH: What radio station is it going
to be on?
MR. KAVANAUGH: It's going to be on 1080 in,
in one minute.
MR. KORESH: Anybody, anybody know
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, wait, hold on, hold on
just a minute, David, hold on.
MR. KORESH: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #1: Let me cut a
deal before you play it. Don't play it yet.
MR. KORESH: 1080 --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey listen, there's a message
coming on in one minute on, on 1080 for you, and the
reason - we want to give you our word, we've told the
media that and that we're not going to come, there's --
no more agents are coming and, and I want you to hear
it from them and you know that they know we - you
know, everybody knows what ATP said and what you said,
that we're going to try to settle it peacefully, okay?
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Can you - do you have a
radio there?
MR. KORESH: That's - I'm getting one now.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Get one -- he's
getting the radio. Okay, good. 1080 AM, David.
MR. KORESH: Indiscernible!
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MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, well --
MR. KORESH: You guys have to go a -- it's
kind of, it's kind of hard to have to do what you all
got to do and --
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, I have --
MR. KORESH: I know your destinations
heaven.
MR. KAVANAUGH: I've, I've, I've been out in
the woods and I've had that happen to me [cut off and
on] raiding a moonshine still.
MR. KORESH: Oh, yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: You know, we used no catch
those old boys making a little whiskey?
MR. KORESH: Oh, yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: And what, what part of the
country are you from?
MR. KORESH: I was born in Houston.
MR. KAVANAUGH= Houston, yeah.
MR. KORBSH: And there's, there's batteries
in there. I was born in Houston, raised in the Dallas
area.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, yeah, yeah.
MR. KORESH: Texas boy --
M. KAVANAUGH: Texas boy.
M. KORESH: -- horses.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Horses, yeah.
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MR. KORESH: You know about those Four Horses
in the Revelation.
MR. KAVANAUGH: The Four Horses from --
MR. KORESH: That's right, the horses go to
and fro the earth and the heathen are at ease. They
don't care about them.
MR. KAVANAUGH: The Four Horses of the
Apocalypse.
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Is that right? ,
MR. KORESH: The Revelation, the Apocalypse,
yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Horse is an interesting
animal.
MR. KORESH: Well, the thing of it is is
there's a truth about them in the Bible.
MR. KAVANAUGH: I don't know. My wife used
to have some and she loves horses.
MR. KORESH: Oh, yeah. You should see the
horses where I come from.
MR. KAVANAUGH= Beautiful?
MR. KORESH: Gigantic, massive.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, David, on thisvmessage,
I'm, I'm working on the -- you should be hearimg this
one any minute if you can get your radio on.
MR. KORESH: Can someone, can someone turn
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MR. KAVANAUGH: 1080 AM -- 1080. I
MR. KORESH: 1080 AM. Tell him to play it
once or twice if we don't catch it.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, tell them to play it a
couple times if you don't ~- tell them to play t a
couple times so he can hear it.
MR. KORESH: Is it a Country and Western
station or --
MR. KAVANAUGH: 1080, it's KRLD, yeah, it's
kind of a -~ let me turn this radio on, David, and see
if I can get --
MR. KORESH: Okay. It's on now.
MR. KAVANAUGH: It's on? Okay, good.
MR KORESH: Pick it up. My name is Koresh,~
Ytell them Koresh.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Tell them that his nqme is --
tell them David's name is Koresh.
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Koresh. Get it right.
MR. KORESH: Pick it up louder.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Here it is.
RADIO BROADCASTER: Indiscernible!
negotiations are going on and both parties are seeking
a peaceful resolution to the situation.
O MR. KAVANAUGH: Call him David Koresh, it's
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RADIO BROADCASTER: Negotiations are
continuing. I'll be back with you in just a few
Join us at 5:05 with full details --
MR. KAVANAUGH: David?
MR. KORESH: Sir?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Now listen, he.- they
kept their word. Now, the only thing is they didn't --
MR. KORESH: I can't hardly hear you.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Are you okay? Can you
MR. KORESH: Turn that radio down.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, sure.
MR. KORESH: Okay. Here we go.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. David?
MR. KORESH: Sir?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. I'm going to get your
scripture message on there too. Now, I kept my part of
the bargain here, I've got one message on there for
MR. KORESH: Okay. .
I
MR. KAVANAUGH: Can you, can you dofsomething
M. KORESH: Yeah, what do you want?
MR. KAVANAUGH: 1, I want some of the wounded
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people, I want some of the wounded people.
MR. KORESH: I mean, they're up and aqound
now, you know?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, but David, theyre
bleeding or hurt, they need treatment.
MR. KORESH: Well, they're not bleeding.
Most of it was -- where did Scott get hit, in the hand?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Scott ~-
MR. KORESH: Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Scott was hit in the hand?
MR. KORESH: Where was Big Boy hit? in the,
in the, in the side of the leg? Just a graze? ,Okay,
just a graze. It, it scared him more than hurtfhim,
huh?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Okay, but howfabout
? some of the kids? Can we get some of the children out
I mean, we --
MR. KORESH: When we, when we finish!our
working this stuff out then you can come and have the
kids, all right?
MR. KAVANAUGH: I'm sorry, David, say that
again.
MR. KORESH= I said when we get ourimessage
out and stuff then you can have the children,!all
right?
MR. KAVANAUGH: All right. Now, you give me
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MR KORESH: Hey, my -- I gave you myiword.
MR KAVANAUGH: Okay, buddy, I trust you and
I believe you I'm going to get this message out and
then we can get the children, right? »
MR KORESH: Right.
MR KAVANAUGH: All right. God blessryou, I
love you Now, I want you to stay on with me, okay?
MR KORESH: All right.
MR KAVANAUGH: All right. I want to get
this to the radio station right away.
MR KORESH: Let's, let's, you know, hear it
MR KAVANAUGH: All right. Look, hold on,
I'm talking to David.
MR KORESH: You're - and you're, you're
going to have those scholars call me up, right?
KAVANAUGH: Well, I hadn't got to that
KORESH: Try, try for me.
KAVANAUGH: I will try, I give you my
d b t when we la this message as agreed, David's wor , u p y
going to let us get the children out.
MR KORESH: But they're -~
Gunshot!
MR KAVANAUGH: Okay?
MR KORESH: They're shooting at us again
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indiscernible!.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Who's shooting out chem?
Find out who's shooting out there.
MR. KORESH: Out in the field.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, he hears them -~ tell
those agents whoever the hell's shooting tell them to
stop. Turn those people back.
MR. VANAUGH: We don't know who's shboting,KA
David. It - we're going to find out. It's non us.
We just got the word back that we are not shootng. It
ight be one of your guys in the far corner of them
building.
MR. KORESH: No, no, no, no, they're
. shooting -~ what? Yeah, don't [cut off and on]
MR. KAVANAUGH= We're not firing.
MR. KORESH: No, I'm talking to the, to the
9uY5-
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Now listen, okay, this
is our agreement, okay? I'm going to play thefmessage,
I'm -~ and I'm going to, I'm going to tell them to
pronounce your name right, okay? p
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Because I'm sorry tme way
they called you Vernon last time but I'm going to
25 get --
M. KORESH: Yeah.
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MR. KAVANAUGH: -- David Koresh and then --
MR. KORESH: Koresh.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Koresh?
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: And then we're going to get
the children out, okay? And --
MR. KORESH: Well, like I said, I want these
scholars to call too. I mean --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well --
MR. KORESH: -- you're not just going to come
up here and take them out, you're going to, you1re
going to tell them, you know, that I want some replies
on that and I want someone to show me from scriptures
where the seven seals are found and then I knowlI'm
wrong.
MR. KAVANAUGH: But David -
MR KORESH: That's, that's all I'm qsking --
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- I know that --
MR. KORESH: -- for life, man.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
MR. KORESH: Come on, bend a bit.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH= Well, if I -- let, let$ go one
step -- let me play this message and, and, andflet's
get some -- all right --
MR. KORESH: Get some feedback back.
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pMR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
bass down.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
you send the
MR.
religious --
MR
MR
know --
MR
MRMR.
MR.
. KAVANAUGH:
. KORESH: -~I
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KAVANAUGH: Okay. Let's play the message
and then we'll talk.
KORESH: Okay. Turn the radio on.
KAVANAUGH: Okay. Well, they ainqt going
to get it on that fast.
KORESH: Well, that's too loud, I can't
hear my friend here.
KAVANAUGH: Too loud?
KORESH: Turn the treble up and turn the
KAVANAUGH: Indiscernible! David?
KORESH: Yeah?
KAVANAUGH: Let me ask you this, buddy.
KORESH: Uh-huh.
KAVANAUGH: I'll play the messaga, okay,
kids out.
KORESH: I'm not going to do thad. You
play the message like you said --
KAVANAUGH: Okay.
KORESH: - and put me so-called
some leaders on there --
Um-hum.
and put it on air, you
. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
. KORESH: -- and, and explain to me what
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the seven seals are.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, David, I, I think you
know more about that than anyone.
MR. KORESH: Well, okay, then -
MR. KAVANAUGH: And I --
MR. KORESH: -- then my position is, is, is
standard isn't it?
MR. KAVANAUGH: It, it is, buddy, I mdan you
respect it.know more about it than anyone. There's no onefcan
dispute you. I'm not trying to argue that poind. I
MR. KORESH: I know, but --
MR. KAVANAUGH: I, I just want us to make a
M.
going to take
MR.
you send some
MR.
MR.
MR
don't want to
MR.
MR.small movement toward a peaceful agreement.
KORESH: Yeah, but, but you're not just
our children. K
§
KAVANAUGH: Okay. Well, would yob, would
of the ladies out?
KORESH: Huh?
KAVANAUGH: Some of, some of thefwomen
KORESH: The - any women -- thelwomen
go -- they'll go, everyone of usgwill
KAVANAUGH: Okay.
KORESH: -- once we get our chanpe to
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discuss this with the so-called minds that think that
they know the seven seals. i
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Well, what, what
answer --
MR. KORESH: Indiscernible! it's against
religion --
MR. KAVANAUGH: What, what would you -- what
-- if -- what message are you looking from them, David?
I don't think --
MR. KORESH: I want them to show me fkom the
prophecies where the seven seals are found, just give
the references so everybody can hear them.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, you know the
references. You tell me and I'll have it on the radio.
MR. KORESH: I know it.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: But the thing of it is, do they?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, you, you want to know?
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: I don't think they know.
MR. KORESH: Well, okay, so --
MR. KAVANAUGH: So -- we know --
MR. KORESH: -- I mean they're in trouble
aren' t they?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, I agree with you.
MR. KORESH: Then my Father is fixingjto do
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some very awesome things in this little world.g Read
Isaiah 24. That's what you all boys have done in
Isaiah 24, you know, it's a terrible [gap]
MR. KAVANAUGH: You're, you're not going to
die, come on, we're going to - we, we got some1--
we're taking some shots from your guys.
MR. KORESH: Where?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hold on, David.
MR. KORESH: Indiscernible!
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey, this is David. Are his
people shooting?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #2: Indiscernible!
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, your people area
shooting our guys behind the rear barn and we're not
firing at all.
MR. KORESH: No, we're not.
MR. KAVANAUGH: He says -- David sayslthey're
not shooting.
MR. KORESH: Go, go down -- because
indiscernible! go down there and indiscernibleb
MR. KAVANAUGH: well, you'd better che%:k. He
-- they keep telling us --
MR. KORESH: Got to hold off on those boys.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, tell them to hold off I
mean, you know, I'd tell them don't shoot them but if
people are shooting at them, you know --
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MR. KORESH: Yeah. y
MR. KAVANAUGH: Let's work, let's work out
something. Is there anybody in there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #2: Our guys are
taking fire.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Our guys are taking fire.
Our guys are taking fire. Now, that's not keeping your
end of the bargain. See if you can stop them, buddy,
come on.
MR. KORESH: They're, they're down there.
We're not shooting at them.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, we're taking it; I've
confirmed it three times. We are taking fire. iThey
need the word from you, you're the top man. Tel them
not to fire.
MR. KORESH: Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Don't break your word mow.
MR. KORESH: I'm not breaking my wordq
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
MR. KORES1-I: we -- there [gap] I
MR. KAVANAUGH: Everybody-stop, everybkdy --
MR. KORESH: Who is down at the barn ight
now? Go and try --
M. KAVANAUGH: Dave --
MR. KORESH: Someone's shooting up toqards
here.
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MR. KAVANAUGH: David said maybe it's not ATF
shooting but somebodys shooting from the barn. Okay.
We're going to suppress everything from the barn.
MR. KORESH: Yeah, go find out what's going
on down there.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Tell them to stop shooting,
everybody stop shooting.
MR. KORESH: No one here is shooting.
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, no shooting now?
MR. KORESH: Huh indiscernible! firi --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay, okay, okay. There's,
there's no shooting now, right?
MR. KORESH: No.
_ MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay, good.
MR. KORESH: We never have shot.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Is there any elderly people
that might want to come out, you know?
MR. KORESH: Indiscernible! and then you're>
just firing at us? How did -- what, they got the
binoculars on him? f
MR. KAVANAUGH: In the distance? we11L that
I
might be some crazy rancher. We'll, we'll check on it.
They say they took a round from way, way off somewhere.
They don't think it's ATF. Put the word out, anybody
who's shooting at them --
MR. KORESH: Hey, you got, you got, you got
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the zoom on him? Is he ATF or what?
MR. KAVANAUGH: They got a spotting scope on
the guy who's doing the shooting. Might be some crazy
rancher or redneck out there. I don't know. We'll,
we'll - we're going to put a stop to it.
MR. KORESH: Hey, could you get a -- where's
Steve? What's the name of my buddy across the street?
What's his name? Can you get Robert Gonzalez on the
phone so I can talk to him?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, he's, he's, he's gone.
MR. KORESH: Where did he go?
MR. KAVANAUGH: I, I don't know wheregthey
sent him. He's not around.
MR. KORESH: Tell him, you know, I --
MR. KAVANAUGH: I'll tell him whatever you
want.
MR. KORESH: - I really did like that guy, I
really did. I -- you know, I -- oh, they're dropping
snipers on the DoubleE?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey, tell your guys t1f1ats --
just the perimeter, that's all, nobody's cominglin.
Just the perimeter, that's all --
MR. KORESH: Yeah. ,
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- nobody's coming inl
MR. KORESH: Well, you all need to, ypu all
need to, you all need to go to the scoped rifles.
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MR. KAVANAUGH: He's telling his guys to go
to the scoped rifles. Better pass that on
indiscernible! hey, hey, and they can see them, they
can see them on the Double-E Road over there David
says.
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Sandra. David said they can
see agents on the Double-E Road.
MR. KORESH: Yeah, we got, we got powerful
zooms on those guys.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, I'll tell them to back
up. I, I wish we could get something out on this
message.
MR. KORESH: Well, let's d0 it, let's-
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, let's do it. I'Ill tell
you what, you got my word I'll give you one message,
I'll give you this second message. I'll have it
played, I'll do it first -- '
MR. KORESH: See what you can do now..
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- and then you send some
kids out. .
MR. KORESH: Not yet, no, you have the
scholars call me first.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Let me ask youlthis:
if I can do this --
MR. KORESH: Is your name Kavanaugh?
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MR. KAVANAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. KORESH: Kavanaugh.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Jim Kavanaugh.
MR. KORESH: I thought your name was Lynch.
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, no, Jim Kavanaugh, that's
right, yeah, Jim Kavanaugh, um~hum. I talked to Steve
earlier, you know.
MR. KORESH: All right.
MR. KAVANAUGH: We, we, we, we stopped all
the gunfire. Here's what I --
MR. KORESH: You guys located down in Waco
there?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, down in Waco, uhkhuh.
MR. KORESH: Got that, got that old steel --
steel-walled room in there, huh?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, it's nothing like that.
Hey David, I mean if I could get us to make an
agreement here, I can't get --
MR. KORESH: Do another thing, tell sheriff
Thorn that I really liked him.
MR. KORESH: Sheriff Thorn that you like him?
MR. KORESH: Yeah, that, you know, I, I
really thought he was a decent man and everything and
tell him I'm sorry that he doesn't know really where
we're coming from and -~
MR. KAVANAUGH: I understand.
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MR. KORESH: -- of course, you know, tell
Harwell, you know, after we're gone he can still come
fishing.
MR. KAVANAUGH: You're not going to be gone.
MR. KORESH: Well, it depends on what you all
going to do for me.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey, we're not cominglin
there. I want to get ~»
MR. KORESH: Well, it depends -- look, look,
it depends on what you guys do for me.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
MR. KORESH: You got all the technology, you
can hook me up, you know? People like stories,ithey --
you know, or TV, come on.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, yeah, I know.
MR. KORESH: And look, I'll make myself look
like a fool on TV, if you all just let me, you know, on
TV just, you know, blank it just like [gap] my words
and stuff and, and then, you know, people will like
that. It's kind of like, you know, not like the
president talking, it's kind of like the [gap] g
MR. KAVANAUGH: David, the thing is id, if I
play - if I get them to play this scripture, Igmean
it's like I want you to, you know, do somethinggfrom my
side, I mean -- Q
MR. KORESH: I am. I, I gave you the}
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scripture so you could know what you're fighting
against.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, I understand that, but
I mean, I'm going to get it played on the radio and I'd
like to see some people that are hurt come out.
MR. KORESH: what the -~
MR. KAVANAUGH: One person, one person,
that's all, just one person. If you'll agree td send
one -- g
MR. KORESH: Well, you've already gotq you've
already got some people down at the, the shop. EYou've
already got --
MR. KAVANAUGH: I don't know. I haved't been
at the shop. '
MR. KORESH: Yeah, you know, you already got
those guys, they're with you.
MR. KAVANAUGH: If you send out --
MR. KORESH: You already got Paul Fatqa and
indiscernible!.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. I, I wasn't awake of
that.
MR. KORESH: You know?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, but I mean if yoL'd
send out any mother and child, one or two. I'm hot
asking you to send out all your people, I'd just,like
to get somebody maybe that's hurt or scared out,!I'll,
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I'll get this played and then we'll go to Step 2. Let,
let's do it.
MR. KORESH:
ask again and see if a
asking again if anybod
DOCAll right. Let me go run and
ybody wants to leave, you know.n
MR. KAVANAUGH: They're going around and
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGy wants to leave.
So you want to call me back?
: No, let's not hang upi Let'sH
hang up. I'll tell you what, if you want to rest
why don't you just lay
open line because what
and
you
and
are
youstuff get on these
know? And you and
everything, and eve
talking and, and th
care for people and
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH
MR. KORESH:
MR. KAVANAUGH
you a cult when you're
believe that the radio
don't tell them that.
MR. KORESH:the phone down and, and leave an
happens is all these neijhbors
Lphones and I couldn't ged you,
me have to work it out. U mean,
rything is okay if you an? me
ats the main thing. Because
, and you're sincere and honest.
>I care about my Father [gap]
: That's right.
-- in Heaven.
: I know you do.
I care about --
: I don't know why they pall
just religious people. Ifcant
says that stuff, but you know we
Do you understand, David?
But that's what they say and
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that's why you can't blame them.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, people call you that, I
don't, I don't -- we don't feel that way. I maan, we,
we know you just --
MR. KORESH= Come on, come on, look --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, listen, hold it, you're
a Christian man, that's all. 92
MR. KORESH: I'm not a Christian man. .
Remember, in the sight of the world I'm a cult leader,
remember, let's take it at that. i
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well --
MR. KORESH: I'm not offended, all right?
I'm just hurt because the seven seals, my friend,92and
whatever God says he's going to do in those seals:
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. What, what can weido
on this, on this agreement, I mean, if I can get this
message played? And, and I'm going to do my best do
get just your words exactly, would you just -- I mean,
I've got all these bosses too and I mean, you're,
you're --
MR. KORESH: Don't worry about no bosses,
like I say, if, if they're going to come here and shbot
us all up, they're going to come and shoot us all --
MR. KAVANAUGH: I ain't going to let nobody
shoot you up, I ain't going to let nobody --
MR. KORESH: Well, you know, you --
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MR. KORESH: I'm the guy that's putting a
stop to --
MR. KORESH: ~- you're going to smoke bomb us
or you're going to burn our --
MR. KAVANAUGH: N0.
MR. KORESH: - building down or whatever,
you know?
MR. KAVANAUGH: We're not doing it, I?m not
going to let them do it.
MR. KORESH: But the thing of it is id that
you let them come in in the first place. Those guys
are not like us, they don't know what they're doing
indiscernible! they're, they're doing a job, they're
trying to make a living, they're trying to raise their
families. You know, you guys from the top, man, you
just put it to me straight, those guys were
they came out here, those guys are probably
shots, you know? But no, they were scared,
indiscernible!.
MR. KAVANAUGH: I'm trying to get
side, it's important, very important.
MR. KORESH: We told them to getOscared when
crack
you knbw
them on our
ut. You
know, people here are marksmen too, you know what I
mean?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey, I understand that.
MR. KORESH: But the thing of it is is that,
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you know, God also has an army. You need to read
Isaiah 13, see what can happen on you. It's nonsense
to have so many -- there's no heros in this kind of
stuff, man.
MR. KAVANAUGH: What's that? Hold on, David.
What's that? A radio guy? You tell him that I --
that -- you tell them Jim Kavanaugh said he -~1we might
have a message for him to play and I -~ and he's going
to have to do it. All right. Hang on a minutei
MR. KORESH: All right. ,
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, get that messaga back
to him, you tell him that I -- yeah, that's right,
okay. All right. Hold on. All right. Look -»
MR. KORESH: You can tell them I've been
l
1wounded and shot if you want to, that might make92them
happier.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well -- no, well, I donft
know -- you know, I can't - you know how the news
media is? I mean, they're - they do things on tdeir
own but we're, we're trying to do everything we cah to
do what's right by you. And let's do this: let's make
an agreement. I'm going to get this thing on the air,
the word about the seven seals will be out. We'll have
an, an agreement, a couple of people, once the word
comes back if anybody wants to go and then the mess%ge
will be out, then we'll talk further. I, I, I like}
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dealing with you because you're the guy in chdgé and,
and, and those people believe in you like no others in
the world and they --
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- will do what you Uell them
to do, what you ask them to do.
MR. KAVANAUGH: But I can only do what my
Father has written for me to do, that's why those
. Kpeople are supposed to know that I'm not crazy.» If I
did not --
MR. KAVANAUGH: I don't think you're ckazy.
MR. KORESH: -- look, look, if I did not show
people from the book the word of God what God has
stated shall be in the last days --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: -- about my coming and why92I
come this way --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: -- that I will not allow anybody
to believe me. You cannot be flesh and blood. Bqt
what is written in the testimony from those who sthrted
the Christian Church, you know, Moses [gap] Malachi --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Let me ask you somethingl let
me ask you something, you may know about this. Wh%t
about that thing they call the, the Ark? Do you knbw
about that? I -- i
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MR. KORESH: Noah's Ark?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Noah -~
MR. KORESH: Or the Ark of the Covenant?
MR. KAVANAUGH: The Ark of the Covenaht.
MR. KORESH: Oh, it's a beautiful thihg, yes.
I'm fixing to show you where it's at.
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, no, no. Noah's Ark,
that's where all the people were saved?
MR. KORESH: Well that's indiscerniblk!
92
Mount Ararat.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Huh?
MR. KORESH: It's in Turkey right now.l when
the earthquake took place, the glacier busted --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Umhum.
MR. KORESH: -- and exposed it.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: That's the -- one of the signs
at the end.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Like Noah was a messengek and
you're a messenger and, and you say your function k-
MR. KORESH= Well, no, what happens is our
message is to the world but the scriptures saw that it
was time no longer it'd be like in Noah's day -- g
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: -- you know?
MR. KAVANAUGH: But they were saved, the
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people that carried the word.
MR. KORESH: That went into the Ark, yes.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, they were saved
and --
MR. KORESH: So Isaiah testified the day
come when God will make a man a hiding place [gap]
Christ unless you know what he knows, as >
indiscernible! says the knowledge of the holy is45
will
in
understanding, the fear of God is made of wisdom92and if
you don't know what's on God's mind with those sehl
then you won't know what's on my mind. '
MR. KAVANAUGH: I'm checking with the peo
indiscernible!. I
MR. KORESH: If you don't know what's ow
mind then you don't know what's on the mind of thel
prophets. If we're not in perfect harmony with all
that the scriptures have spoken, we're not walking
straight [gap]
MR. KAVANAUGH: I understand.
MR. KORESH: SO --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Man's a sinner and --
MR. KORESH: Yeah, but there's only one
indiscernible! unforgivable.
MR. KAVANAUGH: You, you told me earlier
you -- you know, you couldn't -- they couldn't
understand and, and I believe you, I believe you.s
ple
my
of
that
t§hat
i
K
~ 46
MR. KORESH: That's because they're not here.
>
Isaiah says in Isaiah 6 where he talks of the six-
winged seraphim ~~
MR. KAVANAUGH: Umhum?
MR. KORESH: -- it's the same as Revelation
Chapters 4 and 5. And Isaiah says [gap] and he talks
about an event that'll take place to, to bring it all
down to the nutshell. And so here we are at the92Day of
Ithe Lord, all the prophets talk about the great and
dreadful Day of the Lord when God will make inqu%sition
for blood.
MR. KAVANAUGH: That's not today, DavidM
M. KORESH: Oh, it is.
MR. KAVANAUGH: We're going to
MR. KORESH: It's, it's a progress. I
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, your, your people are,
are going to continue on and, and you're going to
spread your message and, and, and your message is even
going to go further.
MR. KOREsH= There's ATP agents who are now
dead, right? !
MR. KAVANAUGH: I'm not sure. There were
some guys hurt bad on the roof but, you know, I donlt
know.
MR. KORESH; They're dead.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hold on. Give me a
>I
47
confirmation some agent's dead. I got to tell him.
They heard it on the news. Okay. Check on that. I
know we had some, some in intensive care.
MR. KORESH: Fourteen wounded --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
MR. KORESH: -- two of them were dead.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Yeah, he's gotl--
yeah, that's right. They confirmed, you're rigdt, four
dead.
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Uh-huh.
MR. KORESH: Tell me --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Uh-huh.
MR. KORESH: - that we're going to belable
to present our truth. If you can lie that good -
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, I wouldn't tell you that,
that we could -- that there's not consequences to that.
MR. KORESH: Exactly. ,
»MR. KAVANAUGH: I wouldn't lie to you,}but
that doesn't mean -- .
MR. KORESH: If I -- and if I --
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- your word doesn't gd out.
MR. KORESH= -- if I'm wrong [gap] to mh as
you wish. I've always -- have to check my school
records, always was a good citizen --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, if, if you --
I
9292
Q O
l 4 8
MR. KORESH: -- you know? If I've done wrong
then I need to be punished. Psalm 7 says if I have
rewarded evil to him that was at peace to me, that
there be iniquity in my hand, you know, that book is
wrong.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yes.
MR. KORESH: It says, yea, I have delivered
them. How you get delivered?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: The truth is to set you ree --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: -- you know? Then let the enemy
trample my glory to the ground.
MR. KAVANAUGH= Yeah, I'm here, buddy,»I
heard you and I --
MR. KORESH: My hearing seems to be going out
for some reason. Y
MR. KAVRNAUGH: Hey, I -- we've got to, we've
got to do something. I want to get that messagelout
for you like I promised, and have they come backlto
tell you if anybody wants to go out?
MR. KORESH: No, I think they're still
checking. It's a big place, you know?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, oh, I know it is,!yeah.
MR. KORESH: A lot of people here. -
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, I understand thati I
J
r
92T
49
understand that. Did the kids get some dinner?
MR. KORESH: Yeah, yeah, we got some MRE's we
been -- we sell MRE's and stuff [gap]
MR. KAVANAUGH: You get them MRE's?
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: What's your favorite one? I
ate one of those yesterday.
MR. KORESH: Beef stew.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Beef stew? y
MR. KORESH: The only good one there -P
MR. KAVANAUGH: I like that applesaucelthey
have.
MR. KORESH: Oh, yeah, that's good.
MR. KAVANAUGH= That's not bad, yeah. *
MR. KORESH: Maple nut cakes.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: You all guys, you know,
things don't work out the way we want, come on and help
yourself, there's plenty of - ,
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh --
MR. KORESH: -- plenty of, plenty of M§Es.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey, it's going to wor out.
We're -- you and me are going to work it out. Yoh and
me -- let me tell you something, we're - we -- :
MR. KORESH: We come from two different'
worlds, you know what I mean?
J
I
92
'-
92
I
kI
SO
MR. KAVANAUGH: We, we come from two
different worlds and we're the only two people in the
universe that can solve this and you and me can --
MR. KORESH: Well, actually, actually don't
disqualify my Father.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, I understand.
MR. KORESH: I've been a good boy, I dmit,
but you can say the same thing for yourself. E
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, I think we're ~
MR. KORESH: But I do believe in his skven
seals.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yes.
MR. KORESH: I do believe in the truthfhe
gave me.
MR. KAVANAUGH: I understand.
MR. KORESH: You know, when you conferiwith
>God you can't turn away from it. »
MR. KAVANAUGH: I understand.
MR. KORESH: You got to do the truth no
matter what they do to you.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, I understand. It's
starting to hurt a little?
MR. KORESH: Well, about an hour or two ago
it -~ the numbness went away and the, the bite and the
fire and the, and the indiscernible!.
M. KAVANAUGH: Yeah. I got your message to
1
1
I
l,
i
92
51
the sheriff that --
MR. KORESH: Harwell?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yes, sir, I did, I got the
message to him --
MR. KORESH: Yeah --
MR. KAVANAUGH: - and --
MR. KORESH: -- and to --
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- Sheriff Thorn.
MR. KORESH: He's a good man, I like that
9uY-
MR. KAVANAUGH: He's a good man, and I|got
the message to him.
MR. KORESH: Man, I love those guys. ,
MR. KAVANAUGH: to sheriff! Give me your
message back. You can't talk to him but give mejyour
message back that you love him and you care for him,
okay? I
MR. KORESH: Of course, you know --
MR. KAVANAUGH: David, the sheriff's reply to
you is that he loves you and he cares for you. V
MR. KORESH: Thanks. Tell him I don'tjhold
no grudges in '88 either.
MR. KAVANAUGH: No grudges from him eidher in
'88. i
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: He just wants all nhosa
i
P
i
52
people out, and he, he, he doesn't want anybody hurt.
MR. KORESH: Indiscernible!
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay?
MR. KORESH: Do what now Brad? No, it"s just
__
MR. KAVANAUGH: Trying to get -- play a
scripture on the radio to give us some kids.
[gap] I
MR. KAVANAUGH: What's the matter, Dave?
MR. KORESH: Oh, I'm just trying to --gthese
latter days watching the baby get some titty here.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Has, has the -- has --
MR. KORESH: It's beautiful. Have you}ever
seen a baby take titty from his mother?
MR. KAVANAUGH: It's beautiful, yeah.
MR. KORESH: Oh, man, you know, Christ{died
2,000 years ago for that?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: You know, only Christ is V
rrighteous for glory for a woman, you know? f
MR. KAVANAUGH: I understand, uhhuh. '
MR. KORESH: Christ came to redeem men[from
their -- you know I'm a songwriter, right? - '
MR. KAVANAUGH: Uh-huh. Y
MR. KORESH: You'll never get to hear by
music.
i
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well,
would like to.
MR. KORESH: But --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well,
sing for me.
MR. KORESH: One song
flying -- " I can't really sing
talk loud, but --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.} 53
that's -- too b%d, I, I
maybe some day you can
goes, "Three angels
now because I c#n't
MR. KORESH: -- it goes, "Three angels flying
in the mist of [gap] when the everlasting [gap] who
really knows indiscernible! who amongst the ba es can
indiscernible! four angels indiscernible!" -- not
going to remember it anyway. But -- I
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey --
MR. KORESH: -- that took too much energy out
of me, my friend./
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, hey, save your energy,
save your energy. I, I, I want you to relax.
MR. KORESH: You ever been shot before?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well,
but I --I've been shot at a lot
MR. KORESH: Well, man, let me tell ydu what
it's like when you get shot. First of all, it eels
good.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.I've been shot{at and
J
r
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/
92
92>
54
it's, it's, it's hard, you know?
MR. KORESH: It -- to me it's like, it's like
it's warm, it's numb, and if you get shot two more
times --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, man --
MR. KORESH: -- and then they're both nice
and warm and --
MR. KAVANAUGH: I feel for you, Dave. }
MR. KORESH: -- you're kind of stunned and
then you kind of [gap]. I
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hips broken? F
MR. KORESH: Yeah, it went in towards -
close towards my belly button and went over and hit
my -- I think the pelvic --
MR. KAVANAUGH: The pelvic --
MR. KORESH: -- went around and came u? my
butt. g
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, that's - i
MR. KORESH: Ricocheted or something.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah. -
MR. KORESH: Yeah, I think, I think it!was a
.9 mm I guess.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Oh, gee, how big is>
your wounds in the front, can you tell me?
M. KORESH: Well, yeah, in the front ht
looks like it's not that big, you know?
I
C
f
92J
>
55
MR. KAVANAUGH: Not that big, but --
MR. KORESH: In the back it's [gap]
MR. KAVANAUGH: Are you sitting up or laying
down?
MR. KORESH: I'm half laying.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Half laying on a, on a[bed or
what? j
MR . KORESH: NO .
MR. KAVANAUGH: Just on the floor? i
MR. KORESH: Floor.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Can you get another --ican
you leave the phone open and get another towel on your
wound on your back and I'll wait here for you? V
MR. KORESH: Oh, well, I, I can, you know,
I'm not going nowhere [gap] I don't know --
MR. KAVANAUGH: You're a brave man, I m going
rto tell you something -
MR. KORESH: Just -- well, look, I've got my
Father, he's watching this. V
MR. KAVANAUGH: You're a brave man, I'm going
to tell you. f
MR. KORESH: I'm not -- well, this time it's
a little bit worse if I indiscernible!. .
rMR. KAVANAUGH: David, is, is Wayne wiéh you?
MR. xonzsm 1 think Wayne's -- ;
MR. KAVANAUGH: Is Steve, is Steve okay? You
I
I
92.
V
92
r
92.i
>
know, me and Steve talked for about 45 minutes.
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Is he okay?
MR. KORESH: He's okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. 1 know we workei out
getting that all [gap].
MR. KORESH: Indiscernible! you know,&and
indiscernible! ought to listen.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Tape 2!
MR. KAVANAUGH
STEVE: Hello
MR. KAVANAUGH
STEVE: Yes.
MR. KAVANAUGH
bleeding a lot?
STEVE: Well,Well, you got a bunch of --
How is your side doing?
Jim. i
Steve?
>
How is he doing? Is, is he
he's, he's hanging in there
but, you know, he's, he's hurt. V
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yes indiscernible!
right. Look, what, what we talked about and so we're
9
all square --
STEVE: Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH
come out --
STEVE: Right
MR. KAVANAUGH-- is the, the girls will
-- do, do you have a
f
!
flashlight you could give them.
STEVE: Do we have a flashlight we could give
the girls? We only have big ones I guess.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Anything they could -- just
so they could see. I don't want them to get lost.
STEVE: Right.
MR. KAVANAUGH: And, and they come down the
driveway --
STEVE: Right.
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- and then we'll haveia car
slowly pull right behind your guard shack. I
STEVE: All right. ,
MR. KAVANAUGH: Now, our guys want to reel
like they're not going to get shot, you know?
STEVE: Well, you know --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, I, I take you word,
hey - ,
STEVE: Right.
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- I trust you.
STEVE: Right. 1
MR. KAVANAUGH: But, you know, I mean bust
like, you know, the guys out there -- doesn't wint to
get -- V
STEVE: Exactly, I understand.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay, and then the kids will
get in, okay?
I
0 Q .
ss
STEVE: Right.
MR. KAVANAUGH: And then we'll take them
back.
STEVE: okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: And 1'11 get the kids hack
fover here -- =
STEVE: And give us a call.
MR. KAVANAUGH: And 1'11 let you talk to
them. }
STEVE: Thank you. y
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay? é
STEVE: Okay. ,
MR. KAVANAUGH: Now, that's, that's whgt
we're going to do. Now, what I'm - and we're gLing to
get two kids? - g
STEVE: Yes, two of them.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Two kids.
STEVE: Angelica and Crystal Senobe.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Angelica and Crystal Senobe.
STEVE: Six and three. ;
>
MR. KAVANAUGH: Six and three, okay. feed
bless you. K
STEVE: Okay. ?
MR. KAVANAUGH= Just hang on with me hecause
we're going to get this done here in the next few
minutes, but we, we, we've got to get the - yol know,
I
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[ 59
I don't want any mistakes and I don't want the v
commanders on the ground to do anything, that we agree,
you know?
STEVE: Right, okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: And how are the little}girls?
Are they okay?
STEVE: They're okay, they seem to be., I'm
looking at them right now and they're just - they're,
they're a little puzzled of course. L
MR. KAVANAUGH: would it help if 1 talked to
the older one and tell her this is Jim and she'll be
all right and meet the man and he'll come to me?* Do
you want to do that?
STEVE: Okay. Just a minute. David wants to
talk to you first.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
STEVE: He wanted to know if you'd
indiscernible!.
MR. KORESH: All right. Okay. Listem to me.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
MR. KORESH: Okay. We're going to send Sita
out.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Sita?
MR. KORESH: Yeah, she's their mother;
M. KAVANAUGH: Their mother, okay.
MR. KORESH: She wants to come back.
i
1
Q I
.0
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. _
MR. KORESH: So and she'll be the one taking
each child out, okay?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah. Can she take them out
one time just so we can, you know, do it --
MR. KORESH: Yeah, well -
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: - she's going to take two at a
time. I
_ M. KAVANAUGH: Two at a time, okay, yeah,
that's fine.
M. KORESH: And like I say, she's unarmed.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, there will be no pioblem.
MR. KORESH: And you let her come back
otherwise you're going to make us real mad.
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, no, she'll come batk.
MR. KORESH: Okay?
MR. KAVANAUGH: She can walk the two dhildren
to the driveway.
MR. KORESH: Yeah, that way, you knowi they,
they, they -- you know, make sure - can even gait them
there.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
MR. KORESH: Okay? I
MR. KAVANAUGH: And then 1'11 have the
children brought to me and I'll let you talk toithem so
i
J
1
7
you know
brought o
phone and
you two m
hold noth
we'll wor
here that
going to
mean, theI
61
they're safe. _
MR. KORESH: Okay. You're going to havé them
ut to you, right?
MR. KAVANAUGH: To me, okay?
MR. KORESH: Okay, and then they call on the
then you all play that thing and we'll send
ore out. ~
MR. KAVANAUGH: You've got a deal.
MR. KORESH: Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: All right. Now -- p
MR. KORESH: Hey man, like I said, I don't
ing against you or the ATF guys.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey, I love you, buddy, I --
MR. KORESH: They may not understand mez but
k it all out a little bit later, okay?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey, there's a lot of people
love you and I -- V
MR. KORESH: Oh, I -
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- I want you to know phat.
MR. KORESH: -- I wish they knew my truth.
MR. KAVANAUGH= I want you to know thaé we're
do it and this is going to be unbelieva%le, I
people are going to know that -- i
MR. KORESH: Oh, we're not murderers. I
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey, I know that. i
MR. KORESH: Remember that we did everything
1
Ki
, 62
in our power to stop - it's just like in 1988, ydu
know, the Sheriff's Department told us there was
dangerous people out here, you know. Anyway, we did
kind of back then like what you all guys were doing
now, you know, you all were trying to make a diversion.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: But oh, I wish you all had jhac
-- I wish Robert - I mean I wish - what's his name?
Robert Gonzalez had been more honest. I asked him
several times to go ahead and confess, you know?
he chose not to. Okay. k
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. I'm, I'm, I'm suppo%ed
to get the word here in just a -- l
MR. KORESH: Well, they're -- she's fixing92to
!come out now, all right? -
MR. KAVANAUGH: All right now, wait, hold it
up just because I want to make sure the car comes l
first I
MR. KORESH: Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- because I don't want heri
to -- you know, I want her to see it that she knows
what -- you know, and he's not surprised or anything.E
1MR. KORESH: Okay. 1
MR. KAVANAUGH: And, and the car will come, 1
just one car. 1
MR. KORESH: All right.
I
0 0 3
MR. KAVANAUGH: So just give us a minute. 63
MR. KORESH: Remember, she's going to have a
flashlight so, you know ~-
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, that -- okay,we ll see
her but I, I don't want her - I, I'd, I'd like Her to
look out where she feels safe and sees the car.
MR. KORESH: Okay. All right.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Okay. They're
getting, they're the car.
Groaning sounds!
MR. KAVANAUGH: Have you - is your
hurting?
MR. KORESH: Oh, man.>
Y
sid%
L
I
»
MR. KAVANAUGH: Do you got any morphine out
92there, David?
iMR. KORESH: No, we don't, we don't do dings.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh -- well, I was just
thinking of painkiller.
MR. KORESH: We just, we just have alcoh
and I don't drink alcohol, you know, I'll have an
occasional beer indiscernible!.
MR. KAVANAUGH: If we're going to do it -well, they agree, let's do it indiscernible! I'm jst
trying to -- hey, tell them you'll do it and I'll tell
Ithem to send the car. Come on, we're going to lose it.
Okay. All right. The car --
92
92
a
MR. KORESH: Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: is coming, okay?
MR. KORESH: Uh~huh.
MR. KAVANAUGH: It, it, it is it's cdmin
from about six miles. We're not sending -- we're92not
letting those guys that are on the road there, okay -
MR. KORESH: Okay. '
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- that were involved inxth
deal today, we're, we're sending other people.
MR. KORESH: Okay.F6.
92
9
e
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay? So I want you to Anew
that. So in other -- k
MR. KORESH: Bring, bring, bring a woman,}
5too, if you can, you know how they're better with kid
little kids. »
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. 1, I -- E
MR. KORESH: If, if you, if you can. 1
MR. KAVANAUGH= If we can, we'll bring a
woman if we can, but we're sending other agents, noté
the ones that were there. They're going to come up,
they're going to drive up to the guard shack with the
I
lights on --
MR. KORESH: Okay.5,
ir
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- and Sita will walk out,
Senobe and Angelica.
MR. KORESH: Yeah, and we'll watch with thei
l
car lights come on --
MR. KAVANAUGH:
MR. KORESH: --
inside, and then we'll --
know and then you give us
there.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
them, okay?>
1
s
@ es
Yeah, oh, yeah, they'll --
and I'm talking about uhe
when Sita comes back we'll
a call back when they get
»
Yeah, and you can talk to
MR. KORESH: All right.
MR. KAVANAUGH: All right, and, and hey92--
and the mother has to go back. I
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH:
Tell them noThe mother has to go ba
mistakes. Only the children are coming.
MR. KORESH: Now, let me tell you someth%ng
too. If you
MR. KAVANAUGH:do us wrong on this deal - i
Yeah.
MR. KORESH: I'll come out after you. E
MR. KAVANAUGH:
mistakes. Okay. We'll -
MR. KORESH: Is the
MR. KAVANAUGH:
minutes because we don't want
the roadblock, so we're goingWell, I know, David. No ,
I
car coming down now? 3
No, it's going to be a few
to send those guys fr%m
to send other people.
Well, I'm sending them right from here with me --
MR. KORESH: Okay.
X
I
92
MR. KAVANAUGH: ~- because I want thé
children to come back to me.
MR. KORESH: All right.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay, because that --
MR. KORESH: You're a good man, I apprecdate
that.
MR. KAVANAUGH: All right. I don't wanti
nobody that's, you know, out there or something that
kwas - X
MR. KORESH: Hey, you go all around and tell
them that a car's coming -- k
>
v
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. 1
MR. KORESH: -- that ~- and that we're i
92. isending our kids out two, twoby-two every time they
play that thing on the, on the radio. i
K
MR. KAVANAUGH: Every time we play they'll
send them out two-by-two.
92MR. KORESH: Yeah. K
MR. KAVANAUGH: You, you got it, you got
We will do it, we will do it.
MR. KORESH: Local radio station in Dallas
well, you know, it'll, it'll get around. 1
4
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, it'll get -- it's
already got around, it's already got around. Is
there --
MR. KORESH: Go give, go give daddy a hug. M
I66
I
92 67
Okay? 5
MR. KAVANAUGH: David, do you want me to talk
to their mom here for a minute so she can feel like she
trusts me, I will?
MR. KORESH: Well, you know, like, likekyou
say, she trusts me. ;
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. That's good.
>MR. KORESH: Just make sure she comes baTk.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Here -- okay. Okay. Okay.
MR. KORESH: Hey, and you need to bring Q --
some car seats if you can. ' 1
MR. KAVANAUGH: Some car seats? Okay. We'll
make sure we seat-belt them in. 1
MR. KORESH: Because some, some of them aie indiscernible! K
MR. KAVANAUGH: You've got to bring them i
here. Our agreement is - just put them on the phone
Okay. Okay. I was just telling the commander that you
had to bring them here - 92
MR. KORESH: Okay. 1:
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- to me and, and so we can
put them on the phone to you. E
MR. KORESH: All right.
MR. KAVANAUGH; What -- tell me what they
look like. }
MR. KORESH: Well, these two are little
92
I
is
Oriental girls. 1
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. I'll bet they're
beautiful.
MR. KORESH: They're really cute. Theyfre
good little girls. '
MR. KAVANAUGH= Oriental girls, okay.
MR. KORESH: Yeah. Well, I'm glad youne
letting them come out. I think that's great.
MR. KORESH: Well, like I said, you know? I
indiscernible!. E
MR. KAVANAUGH: I know what's in your heart
now, I know what's in your heart. I - 92
MR. KORESH: Hey, all I wanted was to sho%
the seals that indiscernible!. I
Mm. KAVANAUGH: Hey, David I'm telling you,
it's been on the radio, your, your, your message has
gotten out more than ever, you know. I
MR. KORESH: Indiscernible! pull my leg oht,
pull my leg out. Oh, it's cramped. Groaning sounds!
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh man, are you okay? *
MR. KORESH: Groaning sounds! oh, do you Q
1know what pain is. 92
KMR. KAVANAUGH: Oh man, I feel for you,
David.
MR. KORESH: Man --
MR. KAVANAUGH: You sound good though. I
I
I
w
mean, can you hold on for me? You sound better.92 I
know --
MR. KORESH: It's sad, you know. It's -- I,
I got to stay alive at least long enough to ~
MR. KAVANAUGH: To get these kids out, come
on. We got to. l
STEVE: Get these kids out, yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: You're a good man, God bhess
92
you.
92 Groaning sounds.!
MR. KAVANAUGH: You got to hang with me.§
What you got to do is you got to tell Steve too he
got to hang with it.
STEVE: Lift the leg, lift the leg, please,
lift the leg -- back groaning sounds!. i
MR. KAVANAUGH: He said he's -- that he'sE
trying to stay alive long enough to get the kids oud
and he's going to send two out every time we run the
message. But no glitches, man. We got to stay with
this. No glitches. Okay.
STEVE: Be sure and have them play that thing
right after the two kids, okay -- 3
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
MR. KORESH: -- and they call back here.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Get, get the radio 1
station on the line, okay, and tell them that we're
i
$
X
92
going to - want them to play the message again once we
get two children. Don't play it until we get the
children and then -- but I want them to be on an open
line with somebody next door and I -- when we havelthe
children I'll tell David and then I want it played
okay? That's our agreement and I don't want any i
>
glitches. I'm sticking up for you, buddy.
i
MR. KORESH: Yeah. I
MR. KAVANAUGH: I got a lot of people around
I118.
92MR. KORESH: They're angry too, aren't they?
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, they're not. Theyre92--
I'll tell you, they're just - K
MR. KORESH: Well, they have to be, you ail
lost some of your buddies, man.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, they're just kind of
sad. E
MR. KORESH: Yeah, but you know -- E
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hold on.
MR. KORESH: -- I'll do what I can for them
when I get back home, all right? Because I don't, I
don't contend these guys because most of them they did
a good job, you know what I mean? E
MR. KAVANAUGI-I: Yeah. Man ~-
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: The children x
§are there indiscernible!. E
92
A
1
MR. KAVANAUGH= No, you're, you're goi g to
lose this if you don't do it. I can't keep -- you've71
got to do this. I can't keep this going if you don't
do it. The car's got to go. You tell them the car
goes out, the mother walks the two kids out, the two
kids get in the car, the agent leaves, they bring the
children here, I put them on the phone with David, then
we play the message. That's our agreement and we got
to do it now let's go. 1
KMR. KORESH: They're not -- they're not
scared are they?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, they just don't want to
get shot, I mean, you know? .
MR. KORESH: I understand. 5
EMR. KAVANAUGH: Can -~ we can have two 1
agents, right? ,
FMR. KORESH: Yeah. »
MR. KAVANAUGH: Two agents in the front,
that's it, and that -- no more, okay? Okay? I
92
MR. KORESH: That's it. E
MR. KAVANAUGH: That's it, that's okay, we're
coming. 1
MR. KORESH: And then besides, you know, E
there will be a woman there too, see what I'm saying?
MR. KAVANAUGH= Yeah. It -- okay. Commander
passed on it's a minivan, okay, a little van.
. 92
>
i 72
MR. KORESH: Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: It's all windows in it, you
can see it.
MR. KORESH: Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: I mean, there's no trichs.
MR. KORESH: Well, like I say, we got night
vision on you guys.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, I know you got night
vision. But there'll be two agents, I mean, and, akd
you'll be able to see, they'll pull right up to thei
guard shack. Will, will the mother have a light? E
MR. KORESH: Yeah, she'll have a flashligit,
you'll see it coming. i
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Oh, she's got a i
flashlight? §
MR. KORESH: Yeah, and I'll hold - I'll hive
her hold it down to the ground so she doesn't flare it
in your eyes. i
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Tell, tell Steve if he
sees the car -- i
9292MR. KORESH: Yeah. E
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- if he sees the car send 92
»them out. 3
92MR. KORESH: Okay. i
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. That's -- and that's K
what - I want to wait until the car gets there. i
>
w
92 73
MR. KORESH: All right. Be sure -- K
MR. KAVANAUGH: Huh? H
MR. KORESH: I'm telling some people. Be
sure ~ oh, I say, be sure tell all the guys to hold
fire, that I'm sending some of the children out an
there's going to be a car come in the front and nok to,
not to fire on it, all right? Okay? Yeah, because
they'll be going out, okay? Go, go there and tell92
them, okay?
xMR. KAVANAUGH: Tell everybody. That's gbod.
David. That was good. Steve's a good man.
MR. KORESH: Well, he, he loves the truth.
They're reading it again. x
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah. E
MR. KORESH: Turn it down.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Now -- my agreement,
I'm playing it. That's it isn't it, David? I
MR. KQRESH: That's it. ,
MR. KAVANAUGH: All right, buddy, I, I kept,
K
my word.
MR. KORESH: And I'm keeping mine.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. You're a good man. 1
The radio is playing it again. They're already %
indiscernible!.
MR. KORESH: Take care Indiscernible! 1
MR. KAVANAUGH: David?
Y
74
MR. KORESH: Huh?
MR. KAVANAUGH: We played it. I mean,
we're I'm trying to show you my good faith.
MR. KORESH: Well, I - like I said, you
know, these children are not in this, you know?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, I know it, buddy, I know
it, I know it, you know.
Groaning sounds! 1
IMR. KAVANAUGH: I can tell you're hurtingi
man, I, I feel bad. I, I wish I could comfort you
somehow. I
i92MR. KORESH: Well, just keep me a part ofkit,
be my comfort.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey, that's it. We know -+
at least we --
MR. KORESH: Is the car here now - not >
coming in the gate.
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, no. They're not coming
in the gate, they just pull up. Oh, okay, yeah. Let{s
get the first indiscernible! David, is, is the mother
okay? » A
IMR. KORESH: Yeah, she's, she's fine.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. She's not scared is
she? E
MR. KORESH: N0.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Good.
i
i
I
75
MR. KORESH: No, she knows the book. 92
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, yeah. She believes in
you.
MR. KORESH: She believes in God's word.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: Nobody can believe on me emcept
they believe God's word. E
>
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
X
MR. KORESH: It's impossible. K
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah. g
MR. KORESH: That's why no one can just lbok
at me and talk to me and think of me being anything.
That's me allowed to be like everybody else, got to
establish His equity. X
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah. L
MR. KORESH: But the truth is the truth.
l
92
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yes, I, I believe that, I
believe that. I think we should be getting close here.
MR. KORESH: Getting ready? Go -- going
L
92
down. You got a flashlight now? »
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, man, you're taking --
Kyou're taking too much time. Hey, send that goddamn
car -- get somebody up there, I'm going to lose it i
indiscernible! well, this is the only guy that cut the
deal. Can -- well, ask them while I'm on the phone %
indiscernible! can they come over here, and we can al
K
f
92
¢
§-O 9 ,K
i vs
together work them here. I'll keep him on. And tell
Wayne he's coming here. We'll work on his phone.
MR. KORESH: Can you move my leg again,
please? Let's set it down. No, that one, the other
one. Yeah.
92 MR. KAVANAUGH: That will be perfect because
they can -- *
MR. KORESH: Pick it up.
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- switch on and off with me
_ 92and them.
v
MR. KORESH: Pick it up straight. Move the
chair. Bend it, bend it, bend it. I
MR. KAVANAUGH: David's hurt in his leg real
bad. It's cramping. §
MR. KORESH: No, it's just -- okay. Back it
up a little more, please. K
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, I've been on since 9:30
too but I mean, I mean I called them when they were
shooting so I mean - .
MR. KORESH: Little bit more, please. Ba
it up a little bit more. E
MR. KAVANAUGH: Indiscernible! as far as
indiscernible! we'd like them to come here, that's our
request so if you can do it I'd appreciate - I mean,
we got -- we'll keep the line open. He can keep it
open until he gets here. Leave one guy with it open,
v
1
f
92
'~
g.come over
here.
ready to come out as soon as we get the car there.
car needsMR. KORESH: What now?77
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, I was talking with a guy
MR. KORESH: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER:
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.
MR. KORESH: Turn it up. !
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right. There's -- they
to ge there, two agents and indiscernibl
MR. KORESH: Could you pull my leg up some
more? Get the cat out. Push it up.
MR. KAVANAUGH: I got to get them to move
faster. They're too slow. I mean, the guy's wantin
to deal.
MR. KORESH: Okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: He don't know. Yeah, but
doesn't do is any good to deal with the guy who's no
the boss, you know? I mean -- well, that's true.
Let's have them go right up. [gap] Yeah, she will,
EDIE .
Child crying!
MR. KAVANAUGH: David?
MR. KORESH: Sir?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Is that a baby crying? Indiscernible!
>
i
i
i
i92
Q
92
N
E
3
I
V
I
Q
_I O
E% 78
What's the matter? S
MR. KORESH: Yeah, that's my little girl.
MR. KAVANAUGH: What's her name?
MR. KORESH: Bobbie.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Bobbie. How old?
MR. KORESH: Bobbie indiscernible! she?
almost a year.
MR. KAVANAUGH: A year, bless her heart. lshe
>
I
got enough to eat in there? 1
MR. KORESH: Oh, yeah, plenty of food.
indiscernible!. 1
MR. KAVANAUGH: I have two kids, I have twp
kids myself. I have a little girl and a little boy.;
MR. KORESH= Yeah. She's getting some titty
right now. Good woman. :
MR. KAVANAUGH: Is she? What's her mom's
name?
MR. KORESH: Rachel.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Rachel. 1
MR. KORESH: Who is that, Steve? No, that
our next door neighbors are talking.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Huh?
E
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Indiscernible! get the first
one. 92
[gap]
92 92
. . V x
MR. KORESH: What did Mark say?
922 7 MR. KAVANAUGH: What happened, Dave?
3 MR. KORESH: He's probably sad isn't he?
4 7 MR. KAVANAUGH: Who, who, who is -- whO is
5 Mark?
6 A MR. KORESH: Our --
7 MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, your neighbor? »
8 MR. KORESH: Our next door neighbor, yeam,
R 9 Mark, he's a good guy. 92
»
10 KAVANAUGH: Is he okay? 1MR.
9211 MR. KORESH: Yeah, he just was on the
12interview. §
13 MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, okay. 1
14 guy. He gave us a
fair chance, didn't he? iMR. KORESH: I like that
15
5 16 MR. KAVANAUGH: All right. When they pick
17 the kids have them dro hp -- ave them put the kids i
18 different vehicle.
19 MR. KORESH: When do you think they'll get 92
E20 here?
'|
E21 MR. KAVANAUGH: -~
just a few minutes. Keep that same vehicle
23 there but get two more kids in a few minutes. Don't
24 make him indiscernible!.Okay. It'll be just a few
25 minutes. Yeah. We're --yeah, we, we want to, you
. know, try to get it --we're trying to do it slowly.Q
~and bring them to me. 3
i
22 It'll be
92
92
x79
up
= .
i
>
»92
K
K 80
iI I don't want to get any of your people excite ou. Q, y
know what I mean? I, I, I'm trying to keep my word,
you know?
MR. KORESH: You all be sure and tell
ieveryone not to fire on the car. 92
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, they won't.
MR. KORESH: Indiscernible! all right.
MR. KAVANAUGH: We want everybody to be safe.
MR. KORESH: As long as we can make it that
i
92way. L
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, we can, I know we can.
MR. KORESH: I'll bet you talked to some neal
psychos in the past haven't you?
MR. KAVANAUGH: You know, people -- we're All
different. I'll tell you, we, we, we're all so
different and we look at things so different and you k
know, when you're a policeman -- I used to be a deputy
sheriff and, you know, ride in a uniform car and, you,
know, I got a -- I used to help a lot of folks. I x
delivered a baby once and I'll tell you it was real E
exciting, David, I'll tell you it really was, you know?
MR. KORESH: Yeah, I'm fixing, I'm fixing to
have a couple more here. -
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, are you?
MR. KORESH: Yeah. I have two women
pregnant.
92 92 X
I
I C f
i
E B1
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, that's great.
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: I'm glad we are agreeing that
iwe love kids and I think that's, that's tremendbus.
MR. KORESH: You know, kid -- childrek are
the most important thing to me in my whole life.
MR. KAVANAUGH: I know, I believe you, I
believe you, because -- >
MR. KORESH: Because you can do so much with
them if you know the truth.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um~hum. A
MR. KORESH: Just like my attorney that
helped us in the '88 case -- *
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: -- Gary Coker.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Coker? Yeah.
MR. KORESH: We had this little pizza party
afterwards and he says -- §
MR. KAVANAUGH: Pizza party?
MR. KORESH: Yeah indiscernible! he,|he
says, Dave, how do you -~ how do your children -- how
come they're so well mannered?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH= And I kept trying to tell him
the seals, but he said no, I don't want to know
religion. He says, I just want to know how do you get
»
7
O 9 ,
x
F 82
your children so well mannered.
MR . KAVANAUGI-I : Um hum .
MR. KORESH: I said, well, because they know
the truth. F
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum. E
MR. KORESH: Well, anyway, he said, I can't
|
i
rask you nothing about Bible study.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah. David, how did you,
how did you -- you, you just know so much from the
Bible, is that from the seven seals when you got that?
Is that how you learned?
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: That's unbelievable,
amazing. I can't - I've never - 92
MR. KORESH= Well, you don't know nothing
yet. b
MR. KAVANAUGH: I've never spoken to no one
who knows -
MR. KOREsH= Well, there's -- like it s a
simple man's doctrine, isn't it?
» MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
MR. KORESH: Just pretend you're a simple-
minded man -- i
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. I
MR. KORESH: -- and you've read Matthsw,
Mark, Luke, John, right?
1
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right, um-hum. A
MR. KORESH: You read Acts, Romans,
Corinthians and Paul says a lot of things thaqs hard
to understand, doesn't he?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yes, uhhuh.
MR. KORESH: Okay. Now, when you, when you
get to the last book of the New Testament after the
Book of Jude, there's a revelation Jesus Chrisi's God
gave to him to show to his servants and John was the
servant.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right. .
MR. KORESH: And John wrote down that
revelation and sent it to the seven churches in Asia
and each church was given specific information about
their necessity and need.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.
MR. KORESH: But in Chapter 4, the me sage to
Laodicea, in Chapter 4 the Angel says, come up here now
John and I'll show you that which must be hereafter.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Umhum.
VMR. KORESH: And John witnessed the Last
Judgment in regards to the case of this whole world.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum. i
iMR. KORESH: And John saw that all the Heaven
was called together. It's a serious thing, you know.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum.
i
1
MR. KORESH: There are some heavy indictments
against you boys - I
MR. KAVANAUGH: Umhum, I understandl
MR. KORESH: -- and against the natidns, you
know? F
MR. KAVANAUGH: I understand, yeah. '
MR. KORESH: And that's why I'm her I'm
like your attorney.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right, uh-huh.
MR. KORESH: See, I'm a mediator.
MR. KAVANAUGH:, Yeah.
MR. KORESH: So what happened was th
question was asked in God's judgment who only
worthy. Let me tell you about my world, okay? '
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay, yeah. l
MR. KORESH: You see, when you read te story
of Genesis --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: - there was already a wokld
here wasn't there?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yes, uh-huh. V
MR. KORESH: It was void and darkness tn the
face of the deep and the Spirit of God was on the face
of the waters and God said, "Let there be 1ight,L
right?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum. 5
F
P
k 85
MR. KORESH; Well, you know why thkre was a
world here before?
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, I don't.
MR. KORESH: Well, you know why God said to
Adam and Eve, "Replenish and remultiply the Earth"?
That means put back something don't it? §
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, I understand.
MR. KORESH: Well, tell me about my Father -
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: -- let me tell you abont me.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. l
>MR. KORESH: After Adam and Eve sinhed, they
took of the forbidden fruit, right?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right, umhum. M
MR. KORESH: There's only one way to teach
men the lesson that God learned a long time ago. God
is not what you think he is --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right, um-hum. I
MR. KORESH: - you know? God says, "Behold,
man has become as one of us - "
MR. KAVANAUGH: Umhum.
v
>
MR. KORESH: -- "only good and evill"
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right. i
MR. KORESH: Now, you know God has n t always
been holy. .
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.
1
0 9 k
~ 86
MR. KORESH: All you got to do to learn the
lesson is search the scriptures and find for every
child that's born into this world ~-
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: - it has to learn good bnd
evil. Those who realize that there are stars above the
Heaven and there's got to be worlds past Orion }-
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: -- they realize this doesn't
work. R
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum. i
MR. KORESH: You know, when you break thecommandments of God all you're doing is you're lbsing
the lack of love --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
MR. KORESH: -- you know? So God had do
separate from men and give them a choice to do tmeir
own thing and then when men have found that their own
ways are not working and their own ways have brought
sorry and sin and suffering upon them, the wages of sin
is death, then God sends a message into the world and
says, Children -- talking to me, you know? And it says
like this, Who sits on the throne -- " i
MR. KAVANAUGH: All right. i
MR. KORESH: - who do you give the book to?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.
92
X
Q C .
87
MR. KORESH: And so the one who loves you
more than you could ever realize and it comes inthe
flesh and that's where we get our problem. After the
order of indiscernible! God in the flesh. Anytime you
come looking like mortal man --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Umhum.
MR. KORESH: -- men don't respect men,
don't, they don't love one another. You know,
brother is wrong and erring you with your spiri
Paul says, restores indiscernible! consider you
least you also be tempted.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.
MR. KORESH: Christ says, Christ says!if
tuthey
a
al,
rself
II
this they shall know that you're my disciples and that
you love one another." You know, we live togeth
xEI. I
mean, in the beginning, you know, getting this many
people from all over the world living together --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right. p
I
MR. KORESH: -- you know, they have to
love after a while.
IMR. KAVANAUGH: I understand, yeah.
MR. KORESH= So, you know, the thing th
binds us together is that our Father in Heaven ha
given us knowledge and an understanding and we, w
realize that in our own humanity we fell far shorlearn
92
at
s
t of
the things that we know we should and shouldn't d
D, YOU.
92
<-
4
k- - i 88
I , know?
» 92 MR. KAVANAUGH: Right, um-hum.
MR. KORESH: But still in this great country
God has blessed this nation because it's said Qts a
nation that's concerned about the religious beliefs and
convictions of people.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Umhum.
MR. KORESH: Now, it says it believestthe
Bible. F
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right. I
MR. KORESH: Now, we have found in scipture,
I
; I found in Israel on Mount indiscernible!.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.
MR. KORESH: But the people that hav
studied, we found in scripture, that God require
obedience [gap] because we're all to keep the l
the name of love --
>MR. KAVANAUGH: Umhum. f
MR. KORESH: -- but to the spirit of His
will. So then the will of God is revealed in seden
92
seals and we've done so.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.
MR. KORESH: And we've been - we're in&a
tight situation now, my friend. Z
MR. KAVANAUGH: we are, we are.
MR. KORESH: But, you know -- '
MR.
MR.
MR.
MR.
it right here
MR.
outside?
MR.
MR.
don't you?
MR.
were about --
MR.
right?in Psalm 89 real quick.i
E
89
IMR. KAVANAUGH: But because you're aigood man
you're - well, maybe more than man, but --
MR. KORESH: There's none good, but there's
one good in Heaven, your Father --
MR. KAVANAUGH: I understand. .
IMR. KORESH: - you know, and far as I'm
_concerned I'm just a dixie cup. In the [gap] Psalm 89
-- you got a Bible there with you? E
r
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah. I
KORESH: Let's take a look at thefstory
I»
KAVANAUGH: Okay. 1
KORESH: The promise to ancient David
92 indiscernible!. ;
KAVANAUGH: Psalm 89? Let's see, I got
KORESH: They're coming? The light's on
I
l
KAVANAUGH: Yeah, they're coming. 92They
said they were -- ' i
iKORESH: You've got a radio on withithem
KAVANAUGH: Yeah, they, they said t ey
threequarters of a mile. 92
KORESH: Okay. They're at the gate now,
i
i
i
90
MR. KAVANAUGH: Do they see them thee?
>
MR. KORESH: Are they at the gate now?
Female voice in background!
MR. KORESH: okay.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Send them out so they
can *- »
I
MR. KORESH: Send them out and give them a
kiss and tell them to remember --
MR. KAVANAUGH: They're sending them oLt.
92MR. KORESH: -- what they learned. okay-
dokey. Okay. Byebye. Give me a kiss. Come on.
Going to be all right, okay. Remember what you .
learned, okay? Okay. I love you. Bye-bye. Teql them
good-bye. Hey, go tell them who David really is,kokay?
Yeah, okay, listen. Y
MR. KAVANAUGH: Umhum. t
MR. KORESH: We want you to send them
their grandparents, okay?
MR. KAVANAUGH= Send them to their
grandparents?
MR. KORESH: Right.
92
MR. KAVANAUGH: okay. i
I
MR. KORESH: Their grandparents are like I
say know nothing about this message, they're good ,
people -- H
>
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
y 92
r
92
C
I
Q 0
1"..
MR. KORESH: - the Senobe's and they're in
Hawaii. i
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. How cculd I rdach
them?
MR. KORESH: Yeah, Scott. I know th but
they'll know it. Your, your dad treated me good,
Scott, and that's all that makes any differencey He
didn't know what I thought but he treated me E
respectful, remember that, you know? He'll do it.
They're going to call -- they're going to -- the kids
are going to talk to you afterwards. And you got their
address and phone numbers? Okay. Take this numher
Idown.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay, go ahead.
MR. KORESH: The phone number is 808! --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
MR. KORESH: -- 689 --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. 1
MR. KORESH: 4457.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Where is that at?
MR. KORESH: 808!, right, 808! --
MR. KAVANAUGH: 689 --
MR. KORESH: - 689-4457.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Got it, and, and what's3theirname? Do you know? K
M. KORESH: What's, what's, what's theJr
&
1
name? Ken and Mollie Senobe.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Ken and Mollie --92
; 92
MR. KORESH: And Cerila Vera, Cerila Vera
indiscernible!.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Cerila. Where do they live,
David?
MR
MR
MR
MR.
MR
MR
MR
MR
MR
MR
MR
Apartment L-
MR.
line, David.
MR
MR
MR
MR
MR
MRKORESH: They live in Hawaii.
KAVANAUGH: Hawaii?
KORESH: Yeah. It's 91674 --
KAVANAUGH: Okay. '
KORESH: -- K-I-L-A-L-H-A Street
KAVANAUGH: K-I-L-L-A-H-A Street
KORESH: Yeah.
KAVANAUGH= Okay.
KORESH: 1333 --
KAVANAUGH: 133 --
KORESH: -- Hala, H-A-L-A Drive,
E-W-A, B-E-A-C-H, Hawaii.
KAVANAUGH: All right. Give me
I got up to Apartment L-3.
KORESH: Apartment L-3 --
KAVANAUGH: Okay.
KORESH: -- E-W-A --
KAVANAUGH: E-W-A.
KORESH: - yeah, B-E-A-C-H.
KAVANAUGH: BA-C-H, Hawaii.. .
? 92
r
I
I
92
I
I
I
that!last
l
92
92
I
okay?1
9 .
I
MR. KORESH: Hawaii.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
MR. KORESH: Okay?
MR. KAVANAUGH: We'll get in touch wi
7
MR. KORESH: Indiscernible! ;
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: Okay?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah. Hold on, let m
one of my guys, guys here.
MR. KORESH: Well, we need to send th
I don't want to get them spooked out.
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, I understand. We
get in touch with them, okay? This is the gran
of these children that are coming out, okay?
if we can get in touch with them and David want
make sure, you know, they get together --
MR. KORESH= Indiscernible!
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- so we're going to,
going to do that.
MR. KORESH: Is there anymore indisce
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, that's good.
indiscernible! hey, are you hurting, David?
like --MR. KORESH: You know, after a while
MR. KAVANAUGH= Can you move at all,93
th them,
% brief
i
I
em out.
I
3
got to
dparents
Add see
SCO
92
I
i
he're
rnible!.
bécause
1
' ;
g.if -- ,
MR. KORESH: No, I, I just barely canimove my
right leg and then, you know [gap] we're going to send
every time they play this - after they get the kids
they're going to play it again -
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.
MR. KORESH: - and then we're going '
to -- they're going to come back and we're goi
send them two more until they're all gone.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right. We're going t --
hey, he's agreeing to send every kid, every tim we
play two kids he's agreeing. '
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: What's th#t radio
station? *
MR. KAVANAUGH: Don't play it, don't y it
until we tell them. Get them on the line.
MR. KORESH: Hi, son. Hi, baby.
MR. KAVANAUGH: David, are they goin
the driveway?
MR. KORESH: Are they going down the drive --
no, they'd be telling us if they did. You got akradio
>with them don't you? t
r
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, but it's, it's iri the
next room. They're there? Can you tell me is tHe car
ithere? Q
MR. KORESH: Tell, tell them we're seniing
l
>
I
F
R
1
O 9 .
+
? 95
Ithem out. They'll be - you'll see a flashlight at the
front door and, and they'll -- and she'll be dbwn there
in just a few minutes, okay? Are you there? 5
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, I'm here. "
MR. KORESH: Okay. So tell them not}to drive
Ioff just, you know, get back behind that thinglthere,
Iif they're kind of uneasy. Q
I
iMR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, they will. They'll get
.behind the guard shack and, and - I
FMR. KQRESH: Yeah.
MR. KAVANAUGH: - and then they'll, d then
they'll go out.
MR. KORESH: No, you'll go right out to them.
Yeah. And, you know, so okay get them ready. They're
there now, right? E
MR. KAVANAUGH: _Are they there?
MR. KORESH: Yeah, we're going -- she? going
1
>unarmed. V
:MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, absolutely.
MR. KORESH: Unarmed. E
MR. KAVANAUGH: They lady's coming unarmed,
absolutely. We, we know that. i
MR. KORESH: Okay. I only see the -- who?
Okay. They're on their way now. E
MR. KAVANAUGH: The -- is the car there?
MR. KORESH: Is the car there yet?
92
92
A
l
I
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r
96
Indiscernible female voice in the
background.! _
MR. KORESH: Okay. The car is at thelgate.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay, and the kids are
coming. The car's at the gate. 5
just a second
second or
when they
right here to
okay?
to talk to them bad.MR. KORESH: And the children will be out in
or two. ,
MR. KAVANAUGH: They're coming out in just a
two. Okay, good. E
MR. KORESH: And then you'll - when you --
get there you'll have them talk to us, right?
MR. KAVANAUGH: When I get -- when they get
1me I'm going to hand them the phoné,
I
>MR. KORESH: Yeah, because their mother wants
i
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yes, I understand, we'#e
going to do that. ;
are they coming out for -
not goingMR. KORESH: Okay. You got the Bible dew?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, I got it. Are, %re,
MR. KORESH: Yeah, they're coming out.
to let you down on this.
MR. KAVANAUGH: I know you won't let m own.
MR. KORESH: Okay. You got Psalms 89 o n?
MR. KAVANAUGH= Okay. Wait a minute. vid
|
92
92
can't see them. He thinks they're coming out
car's there they're coming out he said
MR}
»
If the
KORESH: Yeah, well, they'll be out.
Just tell the guys to be --
MR
MR
MR
he's sendingKAVANAUGH: Yeah.
KORESH: -- don't be uneasy.
KAVANAUGH: Yeah, yeah,
them out. He -- we need
a radio so we can talk to them. Well
MR. KORESH: They're uneasyjust be patient,
to get a car with
I guess. '
t
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, they just -- they, they
sent a van that didn't have a radio or just a walkie
talkie --
MR. KORESH: Oh --
MR. KAVANAUGH: -- so they couldn't reahh
Ithem and that's what the delay is.I
I
I
MR. KORESH: Get, get a radio so we can, you
know, make sure no mess-ups happen.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah. What I'll do is dn the
next time --
MR
MRKORESH: Uh-huh.>
»
l
92
I
x
IKAVANAUGH: -~ I'm going to put themqin a
different car --
MRKORESH: All right.
92 a
921.. i
l ea
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay? Different car _l1:he next
time, not this time, with a big radio so we can talk to
them and we don't have anymore of these delays because
we got to get these babies taken care of. !
MR. KORESH: Yeah. i
MR. KAVANAUGH: Indiscernible!
MR. KORESH: All right. Okay. Are you ready
to be enlightened?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah. Okay. Go ahead.
MR. KORESH: Okay. Now, David is promised by
God that God would rule over Israel through his seed.
So David writes in the psalm and the Psalm is 89. You
got it there?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, wait, hold one sebond.
If they take that lady indiscernible! something and
he's going to get real upset. Make sure they know.
David said the lady doesn't want to go and that she's
going back. Is that -- that's right, isn't it David?
MR. KORESH: Yes, she wants to come back and
she'll be bringing out each of, each of the children.
MR. KAVANAUGH: She's going to bring outiall
the children. She's coming back. She's going to bring
them out every time, the same lady so we have the same
drill. No mistakes. All right. Okay. Go ahead.§
MR. KORESH: They understand there, right?
iMR. KAVANAUGH: Yes, they do.
92
I
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KORESH: Okay. i
KAVANAUGH: Psalm 89. 92
KORESH: Got it there?
KAVANAUGH: Let me look here, yeah wait a
KORESH: Indiscernible! y
KAVANAUGH= Okay. Wait a minute, one %-
KORESH: Psalms --
KAVANAUGH: Psalm 89, what number?
KAVANAUGH: Psalm 89.
KORESH: Okay indiscernible! you know,
what I mean by Psalm 89 we're going to read the whole '
MR KAVANAUGH: Oh, okay.
MR KORESH: Okay.
K Baby crying! §
MR KORESH: What's, what's wrong with her?
Okay She don't want to leave? Who? Indiscernible!
The car is she out there now? The car's driving
Indiscernible female voice in the
background !
they got them
them, the carKORESH: Okay. So they're - I guess
now.
KAVANAUGH= David says he thinks they got
is driving away. Tell us right away, we
L
0 9 ,
§
E 100
need to know. Okay. I think we got them and -5
MR. KORESH: They can't open the door. What
do you mean you can't open the door? Our front door
is, is jammed? well --
lndiscernible female voice in the
background! E
M. KORESH: Why is it driving away for?
K
MR. KAVANAUGH: Where is the car? 5
MR. KORESH: Yeah, let them, let them,
them go out the back or something or just get the
out there. We need to, we need to get these kids out.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hold on. Indiscernible female voice in the
background.! E
MR. KORESH: No, make sure it's the front.
Just open a window or something, let them go out t
window.
Indiscernible female voice in the
background.!
M. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, but ~ they're loo
for the car indiscernible!.
MR. KORESH: But they - the car left?
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, it couldn't have left.
I
1
rUNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Okay. They
out.
MR. KORESH: Okay. They're out.
K
101
MR. KAVANAUGH: They're out there. Now, is
it the kids out or the car is out there?
MR. KORESH: The -- okay, the, the car is out
there they say but then they said it started leaving.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Oh, it wasn't, it weenie
leaving.
MR. KORESH: Okay. Okay. Okay. That's
good. All right. EMR. KAVANAUGH: Where's the mother and %he
children? 92
MR. xoazsn: She's -- they're on the wa% out
DOW. »
1 .MR. KAVANAUGH: They're on the way out now
walking down the drive?
MR. KORESH: Get a radio, that way you can
Iknow whether, you know, they see the flashlight.
MR. KAVANAUGH: He's telling me to get a car
with a radio. Get a car with a radio next time!
We're going to do that.
MR. KORESH: Okay. }
MR. KAVANAUGH: This thing -- it was just
glitch, David, on the walkie and the reason was we were
trying to, you know, use the van that had all the
windows so, you know, none of your guys would thin @-
MR. KORESH: Yeah, I know. i
EMR. KAVANAUGH: That's all, buddy, it was 5-
~ - a
K
? 102
I
»
that's the only thing. You, you know how thingsiwork,
I mean, sometimes communications, you know --
MR. KORESH: Just make sure nothing messes
up.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Nothing will mess up. *
rMR. KORESH: It's your responsibility now.
MR. KAVANAUGH: The kids are coming? i
MR. KORESH: No, we just -- Sitas got do
come back.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, they see the ligh
Sita will come back.
MR. KORESH: Keep down Jess, okay. So,
psalm says 1
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay, and the kids are cohing
1 down with a flashlight with the mother.
MR. KORESH: They see it, right?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: Okay. i
MR. KAVANAUGH: They're coming. E
MR. KORESH: You love those kids now as long
as you can. i
1
MR. KAVANAUGH: Wait. Tell Chuck to come in
I
here and tell me something. Chuck indiscernible!
on a minute, David. Is, is the truck there? Man 1
you're going to lose this. Drive some goddamn truck is
the gate. i
I
103
MR. KORESH: Something's messing up, huh?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Well, I, I think it's just
communications, the, the walkie-talkie.
Indiscernible male voice in the background.!
MR. KAVANAUGH: All right, a car? It's okay
if it's a car just send it. He just wants you td send
I
MR. KORESH: Make sure they don't try
her. »
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, the kids are at thexguard
shack waiting. The kids are at the guard shack
waiting. Okay. Just tell you guys it might be a car
instead of the van was slow but we're - it's,
going to be just one vehicle. E
1 MR. KORESH: Okay. i
M. KAVANAUGH: I don't want them to get --
MR. KORESH: It all going now?
I MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, I think it's [gap] ey
I want to apologize to you for the delay. I feel real
bad about it.
MR. KORESH: People are human.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, I guess that's wha
is, you know. We're all human and we're trying and
you're trying and, and that's what's going to make i»3work. I wish it could go a little quicker but I thi%k
we're going to have it in a few minutes. i
i
E
$
.", " I
E
. MR. KORESH: What are they saying? What,104
what are ~-
MR. KAVANAUGH: Is the car there? All right.
It's coming.
MR. KORESH: Okay. I
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. It's --
MR. KORESH: Ready for the psalm? E
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, go ahead. K
MR. KORESH: Psalm as. 1
X
I
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. E
iMR. KORESH: It says, "I will sing of the
mercies of the Lord forever: with my mouth will I make
A
known thy faithfulness to all generations. For I said
your mercy shall be built up forever: thy faithfulJess
shalt thou establish in the very heavens." Now, yo?
know where God sit on the throne in Revelation, right?
He's got a rainbow over this throne don't he? R
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yes, sir, yes, sir. E
MR. KORESH: Okay. Now, that God spake tq
David and David is talking about God. "I've made
covenant with my chosen," that's the seven seals.
have sworn unto David - "
MR. KAVANAUGH: I'm afraid they're going t
turn around and go back if they don't get a car therel
Okay. They see the kids, David. é
l
MR. KORESH: Okay. They see them?
i
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92
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I
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MR. KAVANAUGH: They see them and they're,
they're getting together right now, I think. H
' MR. KORESH: Okay. Just don't take her, she
don't want to go.
MR. KAVANAUGH: He's talking to the kid --
the agent's talking to the kids. Make sure the mbther
stays there. 1
MR. KORESH: She'll bring out other on
MR. KAVANAUGH: And she'll bring out t
rest. Don't take the mother. She doesn't -- her
there.
MR. KORESH: Baby indiscernible! yes, yes
[gap] so what's going on now?
MR. KAVANAUGH: I, I -- tell me, tell mei
something, I want to tell him, he wants to know. E
MR. KORESH: Okay. They're driving off nbw?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: They driving
off? K
1MR. KAVANAUGH: All right. They're getting
in the car he said.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: They're dri
away.L
MR. KORESH: They're driving away now.
MR. KAVANAUGH: They're, they're driving 92
away.
MR. KORESH: Sita's coming back?
92
92
. 'k
I
106
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Sita's Cbming
back?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Sitas coming back?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yes.
MR. KAVANAUGH: All like we agreed.
MR. KORESH: Okay.
P
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay?I
MR. KORESH: Good boy.
MR. KAVANAUGH: All right. Now listen, 1
another car with a big radio right from Double-E Road
1that's going to go in and get the next set of kids
okay? And bring those kids here. Okay. Dave, wei we
got them. We're -- 92
MR. KORESH: Okay. Okay. Ready?
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
MR. KORESH: Verse 3, "I have made a covedant
with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, thy
seed will I establish forever, and build up thy throne
to all generations. And the heavens shall praise they
wonders, oh Lord: they faithfulness also -- " i
>
MR. KAVANAUGH: Indiscernible! repeating all
of it.
MR. KORESH= Are you listening?
MR. KAVANAUGH= Yeah, I am, go ahead.
talking -- I'm here. Your seed and I will establish
vforever -- 1
C,
92 Eto all --
MR
Almighty can
MR.
Lamb, right?
MR.
MR.
indiscernibl
M.
MR.
MR.among the sons of the almighty"?
MR.
MR.
MR.i
I
I
v 1
MR. KORESH: Yeah --
r
92
was Christ wasn't it? R
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yes, sir, uh-huh. K
the heaven can be compared unto the Lord?" You kéow
who Christ is, right? i
MR. KAVANAUGH: Who -- where it says, "W¥o
KORESH: "Can be compared unto the Ldrd?"
KAVANAUGH: Lord, uhhuh. E
I
KORESH: "Who among the sons of the E
be likened to the Lord?"
92
KAVANAUGH: All right.
KORESH: All right? I mean, only th
KAVANAUGH: Right.
KORESH: And God's going to reign
e! his faithful, he means what he says.
KAVANAUGH: Right.
KORESH= "God is greatly to be feared i
the assembly of the saints" --
M. KAVANAUGH: Okay.
KORESH: - and to be had in reverenc107
MR. KAVANAUGH: ~- and build up your hrone
MR. KORESH: -- David's, David's seed, that
MR. KORESH: Okay. So it says, "For who in
92
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92
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C
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7 > 92
1 of all them that are about him." i
2 MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum.
3 MR. KORESH: That's why, "Oh Lord God of
4 hosts -- " which is my Father, " -- who is the strong
5 Lord like unto thee?" --
lMR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. K
MR. KORBSH: " -- or to they faithfulnesh
round about thee?" -- which means you're going to do
just what he says in that book, right? T
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. KORESH: "Thou rulest the raging sea,"E
921 which is the heathen that raged. The prophecy says E
that the rage of the great ocean the sea. "When thei
waves thereof arise, thou will still them or thou i
stillest them, you know, God's going to put the
, ienemies out after this. "Thou has broken Ra-had in »
pieces, as one that is slain." Now, Ra-had was a i
really killed with the rest of the people, the reaso
but -- the reason being is, is that the spies came i
and they were being searched out --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.
MR. KORESH= -- and they came to her house
and they asked her to help them. Well, she had known
the God of Israel was greater than her god, risked her
own life in trying to defend the spies of Israel. So108
harlot in Jericho and the way she was saved, she wasnwt
92
x
x
tI
' ' 92
1 109
they made a covenant saying, look, when we destroylthis
city --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Hey --
MR. KORESH: Are you there?
MR. KAVANAUGH= Yeah, I'm here. &
MR. KORESH: -- we will spare you and all
that you bring into your house so she was the only i
ordained minister from God and all she brought to her
house they were saved. But she was as she was i
indiscernible! spiritual --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Um-hum, I understand. k
MR. KORESH: indiscernible! a strong arm.
Now, the way I get rid of my enemies is I teach the
seven seals and people realize they can't fight against
God -- é
iMR. KAVANAUGH: Right. I
M. KORESH: -- because, "The heavens are >
thine and the earth is also thine, as for the world and
everything thereof, thou has founded them. The north,
the south, thou has created them: Ta-bor and Her-moni
shall rejoice in thy name." 'That's the places where
Moses had visions in Deuteronomy 32 about the end of
the world. "Thou has a mighty arm: strong is they
hand, and high is thy right hand." God imposed his
word in heaven. He said this is what I'm going to do
I
I
%
92
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.!
i
E110
l
MR. KORESH: I'm going to send my son hack
again this time being a sinner like the gentiles and
I'm going
you know,
those who
the sight of all the world.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Umhum.fight against it I'll make an example of ib
MR. KORESH: "Justice and judgment
habilitation of they throne: mercy and
before they face," that's me.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.
MR. KORESH: See, before God
you all guy's butts --
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah.
M. KORESH: -- I'm trying to
seals, man.
MR. KAVANAUGH: I understand.
MR. KORESH: This the key of
unlocks the mysteries.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Right.truth
comes
teach
David,to have him teach the truth to the gentilds,
and those who receive it will be redeemed and
r
are the
shall go
l
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and whips
>
92
92
E
the seven
it
MR. KORESH= "Blessed are the people that jjy
the know the joyful sound: they shall walk, oh Lord,
in the light of thy countenance." See, my Father is
watching me right now, he's --
Tape 3!>
92
K
I
I
111
MR. KAVANAUGH: We on now? Is it coming on?
Red light?
Telephone ringing! ~
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah, David, they just mbved
[gap] they're not coming toward you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: It starts nd
then it quits. The batteries are right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #3: You need
batteries?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Umhum.
92
STEVE: Yes?
MR. KAVANAUGI-I: The news conference. okay».
What happened? I didn't hear it. 3
STEVE: Well, anyway, David wanted to know if
you got his message out yet on the airwaves. I
MR. KAVANAUGH: No, that -- no, here's what I
was trying to work out with David. I can get the y
message played - I know, but he, he just --
STEVE: I'm going to get off the phone
because, you know, that's, that's the thing that -- he
said to you and that's what's going to be. é
M. KAVANAUGH: Steve?
STEVE: Yeah? '
MR. KAVANAUGH: Can I talk to him? }
STEVE: You walk to talk -- no.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Okay. Well, I, I really want
. 92
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MR.
do too. And what I'm saying is; let's
agreement -- goin to h
sack -- the sack.s i
- F 112
to do it, I want to et 'tg 1 on there but, you know,
we've, we've already put one message on there and +-
STEVE: I haven't heard any.
MR. KAVANAUGH: Yeah David h d , ear it. [gap]
STEVE: We want to resolve it. é
KAVANAUGH: I want to resolve it, and~you
92
make an, n R
g ave it played and then I'm goingto - I, I want to get some kids or wounded out, okly?
I'm going to do the thin f 'g irst. We ve already plaged
one message, you know. [ga J Ok . Ep ay Okay. I need to
I
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