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Ifemerandun to Hr. Belmont
he: Donald Duart Lhclean; -1 .,-Guy Fincis Deffoncy Burgess
!
operation?| ~?!
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!
subjectienjoy
they obuiousl
$30
what is known about American side of Burgess-bhclean
Why the blackout and who manueuered it?
the tipped qf subjects hasrcuer been resolved publicly.
Lack of assurance that opportunities for espionage that
ed have been closed and that the espionage ring of which
y were members has been broken.that Americansdid they deal with? '
. _ , C0ngfe8a.did not know until 1955 that Britishdiscovered in 1949 that secrets had been leaked and investi¢;f+i ._
yatcd in 1950-51; when did Secretary of State Acheson learn if this?
8! Sir Percy Sillitoe, head of HI-§,flew to U.8. ands -
conferred on C-12-51 with J. Edgar Hoover and established reports .
reflect that? he also conferred_with G-2. FBI took some action as,
on 6-13-51 it suddenly withdrew from
then opening sessions at Lisbon; one British newspaper assumed some
connection. Statements appearing in papers indicated FBI interviewed
certain ex-British naturalized Americans who knew the diplomats.
iPresumably the results remain in FBI files. '
9! Reference was made to speech of Secretary of Army Brueker
2-1?-56 when he mentioned subjects and stated one of them held a high
position in British Embassy in Uashington over a period of 4 critical
years and knew some of our most guarded secrets. Ihe article concluded
by asking "Is there any reason why this full story cannot be told andis anyone sure that it cannot happen again. O!the International Police Commsssion
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U The Prime Minister: Slalemull : -., few.-"'. "-' .5 _
qtt_m_;:-.._ BEATIIE INDEBINII1 mu. tca. 20911? _ _ .
. Read I Second time; considered in Committee; rep0eI,'- uitbout Amendment; read the Third llme -*'-- -- '~-- --- ,
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Hone Relolulioll considered In Committee e -t 7 '1- 1"!-5.5..won. AUTHORITIES rt-zxvtrxszs! [at 21061: -1-==.--.1 ~.".'I;Mont; Resolution considered it Committee .1. /;-:1:-J ,'__ ;;92'_;___
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" POLICE SOOTLA.92'D! mu. 11. 4-1101 2| -;'"' '. ';.-- Money Resolution reported, lndrlgreedh V 73+! 3 -F e
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3051 Pris-are Business 13 FEBRUARY 1956 Om! AwmI_ 4 .. ._ -i s r ' '
HOUSE OF COMMONS
. _ , - i "er.
Monday. I31!: February, I956 .' i
_, .-.. .-»--' " rt." .nn;;'..-li;...'-i'.._i ;nit_r-iinir' ';"':'f
er 1- -T."'f~""'.°"l."i-trite-r::~" '
'-. -' PRAYERS ' " *~_, -, . '....'--Ir»
-- ~ [Mn SPEAKER in the Chair] -s _~~
;-' _ pratvnrtz BUSINESS
Bnmsrt TRANSPORT Cosmtssrou No. 2!
,ro . Bill. ' - -.3 4 "
- Second Reading deterred till Thuréay.
Ct't092'DON Corn-otumou Btu. By Order!
Ltzeos CORPORATION Btu. By Order! -.
Mmcutsrert SHIP CANAL Btu. By Order!
Second Reading deferred till Monday
next. ' ' '. . . _ ... - , -. - 5 . . , .. __ _,_ _ ._ . rs ,t_
' ORAL ANSWERS TO_ _ QUESTIONS ' ._
rsxsroxs awn r~'A11oNAL""
/_. -I l.'92SL?RA.'92iCE .1 rj~ ; s '- .r=-my-..":t~
'f 1. rut. 12'. Fletcher insert the Minister
of Pensions and National Insurance il_he
will arrange for the earnings esernpuon
limit [or pensioners to be raised lrom
£2 to £2 |0s.n weck.r_._-.,,_,- ... -| ,_
- £2. Mr. C-c-wee asked the Minister cit
Pensions and National Insurance if he will
now take steps to permit old-agepensioners to earn £3 per weelriinstead
d £2 per week as heretofore. 1'"
The Minister of Pensions and National
Insurance Mr. John B0!!!-CI.l'pelIl¢l'!$
1 have nothing to add to the reply which
I gave on 6th February to the hon. and
allant Members [or Briitton Lieut.-_Eolonel Lipton! and Benvick and East
Lothian Major Anstruther-iirsyif-f. . . _ .._.4. .
~ Mr. Fletcher: Would the Minister not
lgree that this limit is now unduly low
and that it penalises thrift. creates great
hardship and ought to be increased?_ .-==-i g - '_| - ¢r';|Ir> ti- Mr. Boyd-Carpenter: l thinlt the hon.
Member will agree that having asked the
advice of the Advisory Committee. having
secured that Committee: willingness to
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give the matter priority. it would be very
wrong for rne to comment. 'r'_r_: '7.-'
'_ Mr. Gower: I-Ias my right hon. Friend
obtained an impression. both from
speeches; in the I-louse and vie'wl'
expressed outsrcie, that many peopie
would like to see this matter dealt with
with great urgency? __'_._ .'...+,..,-.,.t;_r_3 l
Mr. Boyd-Carpenter; Yes. ,1 am sure
that this is s matter which commends
itself to It greatnrnanyl people. I " " -. - -,-i5 4; .,.u_
I- _ Prescribed Diseases Weldingyg ,-_;'
3:. ' lg. '-HI Hlffdi! . i'__, La
1 Dr. Stross asked the Minister d
i-cnsions and National Insurance nowmany cases of metal fume fever among
wel ers have been brought to his notice;
and whether he will schedule Inn hazardsdue to welding as a prescribed disease.-1
' Mr. Boyd-Carpenter: The answer to
the rst part oi the Question is None.
Sir. As to the second. I am not aware
of any lung hazards due to welding not
already covered by the Act which would
satisfy the statutory conditions for pre-_
cription. ._- -"- -...- -~-~------~- ~ ---#~-F
- Dr. Stross: If the Minister receive; i.n'-
Iormation and evidence that there is seri-
ous risk that some forms of welding do
cause brosis of the lungs, will he con-
sider taking action? -,7-; :-~....:. ,1'.'_
Mr. Boyd-Carpenter: -As I think the
hon. Member appreciates. it brosis of
the lungs results from the process of
welding. e claim can already be put in
under the existing law in respect of pneu-
moconiosis. That is why in my answer Ireferred, perhaps obliquely. to the {actthat risks whic welders run are already
covered in n number of directions. -; _.;5'_
4. Dr. Stron asked the Minister of
Pensions and National Insurance whether
he is aware of the industrial harards thatmay be associated with the Hrocess oi
welding; and whether he_wi_ institute
into these haa'srds.'and *articu}larly into the composition of the eiectrode
coatinspfi . ..-..,.-- 1.: H-,1-.-~ 01':-r -4-'~--. .-. r .. 2.-' Mr. Boyd-Carpenter: Yes. Sir. But st
this matter is being given attention by
my right hon. Friend the Minister of
Labour and National Service's Factory
Inspectorate. I do not think that I should
at present be justified in duplicating theresearch work being done. - -- -' '- -' ti-1
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point. As to the hammers. they were part
of the tool equipment of the Polsten
machine gun. and 1 do not think that they
would have been useful for ordinary
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J _ ._ , -.- - v _ . -i--..- F-<E. BURGESS AND .92lACt.EA.92_i __ -
___ __ _ STATESIENT! ,_;,~.-:; -_- --'
Mr. H. Morrison by Private Notice!
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign
Atiairs whether he can make a statement
with regard to the appearance of Messrs.
Burgess and Maclean in Moscow.
The Secretary of State lor Foreign
Atlairs .92lr_ Sttwyn Lloyd!: Yes. Sir. I
have certain comments to make on the
appearance of these two men and their
Press conference. First. it brings out into
clear relief the consistent lack oi candour
of the Soviet authorities in their state-
ments about these men. In addition to
what had appeared in the Soviet Press.
suggesting that the whole story was
Western anti-Soviet propaganda. in Octo-
ber of last year before the debate in the
House about the two men. my right hon.
Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer
asked Mr. Molotov in Geneva for infor-
mation about them. Mr. Molotov said
that he was quite unable to provide any.
-' As recently as l2th January. when the
right hon. Gentleman the Member for
l-luyton Mr. H. Wilson! saw Mr.
Khrushchev, he put the same question.
Mr. Khrushchev was reported to have
re lied. Are they in our country. then!I have not heard anything of them [torn
any Soviet oicials. nor have I ever met
them. so it stands to reason I cannot
know what they are doing.'f' I , _'_ f T,_
.. The House must form its own opinion
about the veracity of those statements in
view of this latest development. This
kind of conduct shows how diicult it B
to establish the relations of mutual trust
which the Soviet Union profess so muchso desk _;.:__._,. . .-...
.. The second comment I have to make is
with regard to the contents of the state-
ment itselt. The I-louse will have noted
that it is designed to be used for propa-
ganda purposes and that the two men
were not permitted to answer any ques-tions. ln fact. no credence can be placed
_in their word. There is nothing tn the
statement which causes me to modify that
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92 - ¢_ . --- - ,-.. _ . .. . -- _ . t ;,.|g-.|a92=u¢-aa"_.f.n.nI¢$--, .54;-...-..r =-ell-*f"* .
if; Burger: aria Marian ts FEBRUAlJt9_S6 '_ tsttrrérn--til-*7:-"l " toes
My third comment is that there hill
been a certain amount of speculation as
to the reasons which have led the Soviet
Government to change their ground and
to announce. through this interview. the
presence of these men in Moscow. "One
view is that it was to forestall av.-kward
questions during the visit of the Soviet
leaders to thiscountry and to clear the
air. That maybe 10.: ;-"3 -'{.'.-~-2 - ;;'
" Another view is that after the visit G
my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister
and myself to Washington. and the close
accord we reached with the United States
Government on so many -matters. the
Soviet authorities wished to create distrtm
and to drive a wedge. lf this is then-
planation. they will not succeed. "34! WI,
" Mr. .92Iorrison: May t ask the"rig1'ti
hon. and -learned Gentleman whetherthere was anything to prevent the resigns-tion from the Foreign Service of t ese
two persons and their conducting propaiganda on the lines of their opinions in
our own country? May I also ask himwhether it is not a fact that during the
war. and since. all British Governments
have sought the most friendly relations
with the Soviet Union in the cause of
peace? Finally. may I ask whether there
rs no-v any evidence that these two men
were agents acting on behalf of a foreign
Power or the Communist Party_2_'.;l_' ,-,1}
Mr. Lloyd: It is a fact that there is
nothing to prevent anyone in the Foreign
Service from resigning and conducting
such propaganda in this country. __»!n
reply to the right hon. Gentlernani
second question. the answer is denitely
that. in my view. all Governments since
the war have sought most genuinely -to
seek improved nclations with the Soviet
Union. .-.:tt-:._.t. -tn} haste-Flo -111:1:-roe? "
was to whether then; is ahyevideit¬e
that these men were Sonet agents.
suspicion of the person responsible lor-
I known leakage of information to the
Sntiet authorities was. as was stated jg
the White Paper. narrowed down? to
hlaclean before he departed. This was
confirmed by his departure ,and._subse-
cguendy. by what Petmv has Q-.'td.T"!lo
suspicion attached to Burgess before his
departure. but strong suspicion fell on him
when he departed. and that. also. has
been conrmed by what Petrov has said.
' Sir J. Hutchison : Would my right
and learned Friend agree that._if_1hei_r
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N31 Washington dnd9'WI i I3 FEBRUAI§Y_I9§6_ ,_-,-_ D:'scu.r.rr0rr.t!_,,, .., .
staternents are -correct.-it is disquieting
that two -men. who confessed-that while
they were at Cambridge they were mem-.
hers of the Communist Party. should both
subsequently be employ ed tn the Foreign
Service and that one of them should be
employed in the B.B.C. and the Secret
Service? Does my fight hon. and
learned Friend consider that the steps
taken as tt result of the Privy Councillors
examination would stop a repetition 0!
that possibility. if it bev_true?_ ._.,__, ;___
Mr. Lloyd: I do not accepfwhat my
hon. Friend said about the employment
of these men. The employment of
On the t}:uestion of the future employment
in the oreign Service of such men. I
think. as was indicated in the debate in
the House. that adequate ste s have beentalten. The Report of the éommittee ofgrivy Councillors is not. I think. a matter
or me. - - -
- Mr. Daines: May I ask whether the
Foreign Secretary noticed in the state-
ment trom Moscow that Burgess claims to
have served in the Secret Service and
M15! Is that correct or incorrect? .. .- .. . - 1. Ill .Burgess is described in the White Paper.
-' Mr. Lloyd : I Bo not think that that is
exactly what Burgess claimed. The fact
is that he was employed in a Department
which. at the outbreak of war. dealt with
propaganda to neutral countries. It w
an organisation which later came to
known as S.O.E. . ~ '-'
Mr. Peyton: Does my right hon. and
learned Friend realise how welcome his
clear statement will be in proving beyond
doubt that the ludicrous pantomime
which was staged in Moscow will gain
them nothingl...i- '.~._--i: ...g.._. . -
Mr. Morrison: Arising out of these
exchanges. may I ask the Prime Minister
whether he has any intention or other-
wise of making a statement to the House
on the report of the conference ol Privy
Oouncillors on the Secret_ Service!.---,4-is
Minister: Iarn obliged so
the right hon. Gentleman and to his col-
leagues for the Report which they have
been good enough to present to rne. As
the alright -hon. Gentleman -lcnows.'- it
reached me the night before I left for
Washington. However. I have given it
careful study and we are now engaged in
considering the steps to be talten_to give
at r: atelleet to it. I hope to be able to malte a .
statement upon it in due course but.'as-
the right hon. Gentleman would I.ll'tCi6l'-.?
stand. and all concerned would agree. I
should not be prepared to make the-
RCPOI1 public. . -.. - _- ;.:.'.- -_ .- ; ,,:.-
»-.. t_~......; _,;..-.-;92;l-|=rror'-rt at;'1;*l-c11"/a'-=J-<J-t-
, .
- wasntscrost AND 01TA '1§ '1
.i;. -.. . inlsci-35510-'92'5!...zi :.'.¢'-s-,-I
Dre Prime Minister: With your per-___
mission. Mr. Speaker. and that of the
House. I should like to report on the dis-
cussions which I and my right hon. and
learned Friend the Foreign Secretary have
held recently in Washington and inOttawa. ""
. » --1 --- »..-e-<~~ --1, a._;--_-.'_'_ Q! __' Ira. II. . I ' II -1 .I. ..'. __is ne rrouse will recau rne situation as
the time when these visits were arranged
last autumn. The Geneva Conference of
Foreign Ministers had disappointed hopes
that some at least of the problems facing
us might have been solved in the spirit
of the July meetings. However. the Sotiet
Govemment had made it clear at the
October meeting that it had no intention
of allowing the German people as a whole
to decide their future by free elections. j -
-" More surprising was the fact that the
Soviets refused to lower the articial
barriers which still prevent the free ow
of visitors and ideas between the countries
of the Western world and the Soviet
bloe._ In the Middle East. We are faced,
with intervention by the Soviet Govern;
ment in the shape of the Czechoslovak-
Egyptian arms deal. .}== -4:» '-:-'1»-'-Y-P1'_=,'
In these circumstances. it seemed timely
to the President of the United States and
myself that we should meet to discuss the
world situation together. I was. therefore}-
very glad that the President's recovery-
enablcd him to invite my right hon. and
learned Friend the Foreign Secretary and
myself to be his guests in Washington. '1
will now malte some detailed points onthe discussions. ' "7' "" - " ' ' 1" -
_ __ , .. ..- . .5-7.-_=.'¢""'-""",~gAs regards Europe. iveiare tn complete
9grr_:eroent_ that Germany, whose dtvsstll
is the main cause of the present tension,|¢J-L¢b~-:- ,- - '92 . :' .a_ - 1. ' - n.
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should be given the opportunity of
unite in freedom. We reairmed out
obligations towards Berlin. We were in
agreement on the principle of support
costs and the equal sharing of the burden
of defence between Allies. Discussions
are _pr0ccedin3 on this subject with_th_e
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SUBJECT:Director, FBI i /mm. April 25, 1956Legal Attache, London /92
0no:-mm nnmzr mo LEAR. lcw Fmncls DE LDNC!q1URGF.SS
ES-PIOIIAGE - R
ReBucable April 6, 1956, instructing this office to continuaefforts to obtain the complete recommendations in the '-mite Paper sub-
mitted by
security an
.,...v qppu -easures . ' Jthe Privy Councillors in connection with the British mvenma
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Oite Memorandum - UNITED sures GOVERNMENT
' J *1}:-' A D TO I 1.. v. somm:-is _¢6'¥ |l'. ra, May ah, 1956
"BJ1"°'*'= mrmuylrqmc LEA I;our FRANCIS DE 1-:01:cx$suRoEss
ESPIOHAGE - n
Remymemo 3-16-56 analyzing British White Paper, which 1
related to security ccacures recoumended by the Conference of
Privy Councillors on security. The Conference of Privy Councillorswas set up to study British security procedures es a result of the fparliamentary debates in this case in November, 1955. The White Paper
did not contain all of the recommendations made by the Privy Councillors.Our Legat in London hen since been attempting to obtain the cor..=:pJete J
recoxmendétions.
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Isaac Don Levine, free-lance writer, indiea
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in 1939 that two Soviet agents had penetrated Brit 0
Foreign Service. Indicated one had been executed in '
d and the other had all the characteristics Tower of Lon on
of Dona1,q_"LI_qq1Hean, Any repriigemrl-tat_ione___§ _{._euin§i_to- _ - lBritieh unknown to Bureou.
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' Newspapers 6-?-56 carried mtories that
Levine, free-lance writer, testified at hearing
Internal Security Subcommittee that in 1939 he,
had told the British Embassy in Fashington, D. C
two Soviet spies had infiltr ted its Diplomatic- I ,_!_ "' bl
Isaac Don
of Senate
Levine,
., that
Corps.
Levine testified he got the information fron the late
Walter Kriuitaky. Levine also testified that one of these
wai Iater identified as a man named King who held a key
opot in the code room of the British Consular Office.According to Levine, the British executed King in October,
1939, in the Tower of London.
Levine said Kriuitsky had described the second
nan as a member of a Scottish family and 0 yiung intellectua
communist with artistic interests which Levine stated were
all characteristics of Donald Maclean.
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"' t I _> ' J' '- 0 Io 1 "Members may obtain excerpts of their Speeches from tlie Official"
Report within one month from the date of Publication!.
on application to the Controller of H.M. Stationery Oiee,
t:/0 the Editor of the Official Report, I-louse of _Iommons,
from Whom the terms and conditions of reprinting may be -
fitbe made in the 92lt'celr.ly Edition. Corrections which Members
suggest for the Bound Jolurne should be eiertriy ntarl-:ed in the
Daily Report, but not telephoned, and rlre copy conrniriing the
corrections mus: be received at the Editor: Room, Home of
Com.rn0n.r--- -- ~* - " =", --'."
. .. .-- .- not infer than " ""
Fr|'a'ay,Ii'th Novembeh1'955 , Q _' i
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ascertained. Application forms are available at the Vote Ofiioe;
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PE, ..
Light Railways Limited. the assets_ofwhich have been seized by the iigypiian
Government and put up for auction.
Mr. Turton: Since my riobleFriend'sreply on 30th March. the Egyptian Gov-
ernment have twice put the assets of thecompany and the concession to adjudi-
cation in accordance with the Concession
Deed and kheduie of Conditions. There
were no tenders. and it is understood
that the assets of the company have be-
come the property of the Egyptian Gov-
ernment. Meanwhile. the company's plea
that it was force iiiaieiire that prevented
it from running its services eicientiy and
economically" is still before the Egyptian
Government. The hearing of the deben-
ture holders law suits has been postponed
until 6th January. , . -. -r
hir. Bi-ainer is my right hon. Friend
aware that I was told in January that Her
Majestys Ambassador iri Cairo was
making strong representations to the
Egyptian Goternrnent on this subject and
that the matter then was sub jiidiceand
that the Egyptian authorities were making
some inquiries? Is my right hon. Friend
aware that I was told the same thing in
March? Does his reply now mean that
the British assets have been seized by the
_Egyp:ian Government and that there is
no question of compensation being paid?
If that is so. will further representations
be made and at the same time some action
taken? - - - -
: Mr. Iurtonfs In case_of the deben-
ture holders. the matter is before theEgyptian courts and is therefore. myjudice. It would be quite impossible to
interfere while the matter is sub iiidiee.
-:.. ..: .;..-. V -'-92,'- ,;i{ '.'=.;'..It '!""_' 5; 1. "-'."- ' ' ; 1". 1 .. ' -Il;_-'. ' .
1.1.- ICELANDIC FISHERIES c-it -
,___ , .__ .. .3;-_. l-T1 -' - -I
I6. Wing Commander Bullus asked the
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what
progress has been made to end the thre-e=
ears-old dispute of this country withIceland over the shing industry.
' Mr. Turton: I regret that I cannot yet
announce any substantial progress. Thep_-4-I-J .-.-ma A lbs; rnuniclin hfWIT 92JI UUP UI - II-IU K71 &|-l"|?5l92|92-VII :9.
European Economic Co-operation. which
is considering the dispute.-is not yet ready
toreport._'_ __ _ ._ ..
' Mr. Fletcher-Cooke : Is my right hon.
Friend aware that the Council of Europe;
ti c it ' . - -' ' '
0 . .92"Il'I929fIubsI". t <.-.-.-r___'.:- --r_ '-Y"-1'"-"
li_;:':_;'T_ ___ __ __ ,__ s *;__$-,,'. _r;'r -P1. .ev| :-|- ?_ ,. .,-_-aw-V i --1- q v5; vs--rt_ __ 1.7.1-.. 7 ,u-A-5-u "--92?7t?3é .
on Belgian initiative. is interesting itself
in this matter? Is he further aware that
unless the O.E.E.C. produoes some result
fairly soon the Council of Europe
inevitably proposeI hope with the
blessing of my right hon. Friend-to refer
this matter to the peaceful settlement oi
disputes procedure. which the Council of
Europe is at the moment erecting? _ __ _
Mr. Turtoii: On the rst point. the
Icelandic Government have recently
issued a further memorandum to the
Council of Europe. and that is now being
studied. On the work of the O.E.E.C.. the
next meeting of the group has been pro-
visionally xed for 28th Novembern _ _
Dr. King; Is the right hori. Gentleman
aware that it is it tragedy that two free
and very friendly nations cannot settle this
diieulty between them? will he not ask
the British shing industry to make it es-ture towards peace by dropping the ban
on Icelandic sh? - " ' " " 2
Mr. Turtnn : I agree it is a tragedy that
this dispute should have occurred, but I
hope very much that the work being doneby the group of 0.E.E.C. will have satis-
factory resu ts. ;_- e ; - .
.. ..u -1-:_ -.;|» -.- -r
' --_v ;; r _ '.-'.
F02.-IER FGREIGFI OFFICE ~
OFFICIALS DIS.-92PPEARAl92'CI-J! _
11 and is. Lieut.-Colonel cintit-iiuir
asked the Secretary of State for Foreign
Affairs l} why the secret and widespread
inquiries begun by the murity authorities
in January. I949. as stated in Command
Paper No. 9577 of September. 195$. in-'
eluded no inquiry into the background OI
Mr. Donald Maclean before he ]0IlICd tl1e:__p __ __JForeign Service in 193$; f_ _".;;..:. ;.- " 1-
! how many Foreign Service officers.
havin access to highly secret information.have icon discharged from the service or
removed from their posts as a result dg
the security checks on all such persons
recommended in the repo of the com-
mittee of inquiry in November. I951. and
put into effect in I952. _' ' ":_.' f .*.:'__.' §
. 23. Dame Irene Ward asked the Secre-
tary of State for Foreign Affairs. in view
of the fact that Guy Burgess: Communist
leanings were common knowledge during
his career prior to his applying for entry
to the Foreign Service. w_hy his Depart-'
inent was unaware of this information :'
and what steps he has taken to satisty
.-- -----" "U
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I V ~ l. . 92 .
.1471 Omit Jftfl 7 NOVEMBER I955 Oral '
himself oi the suitability for further em-
ploy ment in the Foreign Oilice of thegrsons who sponsored his entry into theepurtment. ' - - '
3|. Hr. Vt'arbey asl-zed the Secretary ol
State for Foreign Aliairs uhether he will
appoint a committee to inquire into
methods of recruitment to, and promotion
and training within. the Foreign Service."
32. Dame lrene Ward asked the Secre-
tary ol State for Foreign Aairs how
many entrants to the Foreign Service havebeen BCCC[IlCd since the war in each yearin spite o uniawurable security reports.
Mr. Turton: I would ask the hon.
Members to await this afternoon's debate.
Dame Irene Ward: Would not my
right hon. Friend be helping the debate if
he gave us n little more information
before the Foreign Secretary speaks?
Mr. Turton: I am sure the Foreign
Secretary is going to make a very lull
statement at the beginning of the debate.
which will give my hon. Friend all the
help she needs. -. . -...: 1 .- -_ - ,-- _ 1 ~ -. - '.;-;;_. '-.- F. .- .4 ..r.-92..a.92¢ av ""-"rt -- -gY
' SUDAN SITUATION!
l9. Mr. Spence asked the Secretary ot
State lor Foreign Aairs whether he will
maize a statement on the resent situa-tion in the Sudan; and what action is
to be taken to make self-government
¢ccfj92.tc_- I -gygg |',ttJ 2.1: ti. I: st; '.'- -
.- . . 92---- '
'11. Mr. Broekway asked the Secretary
of State tor Foreign Aairs if. in vievq
of the measure oi agreement in the Legis-
lative Assembly of Sudan. Her Majesty:
Government will consent. subject tn
similar consent by the Government of
Egypt. to the Assembly reaching a deci-
sion on the issue of the Sudan: future
international status without the cost and
delay of a plebiscite "or further general
t-, - U-0 bi-J-iAJ.'n--I I..;- Jp- -
- Mr. H. Macmillan: On 29th October
the Sudanese Prime Minister stated that
it might be some time before the pos-
sibility of a decision on a shonening of
the sell-determination process lard -down
in the Anglo-gyptian Agreement 0!
February. I953. was tutly explored bythe political parris. and. until it was
aece ted or rejected. the Governmentwould continue on the presumption that
the future of the Sudan would be decideda- .-_-
. _ _ -_'t -~ , - - --.1-1;-~>.;'_.?.r:V_,.-_-:Q,T.ll..*|._f,5'¥,
l I472
the lines laid
Her Majesty!
to agree that
have told the
they considerby a plcbisciteor along
down Ill the Agreement.
Government have decided
a plebiscite be held, but
Egyptian Government that
that any proposal which the Sudanese
Parliament may in the future maize about
n shortening of the process of self-deter? '
mination should be given iyrnpathit:
consideration by the Codomint." _ 'I"""
Mr. Sparta: Did my right hon. Friend '
make any proviso that no plebiscite
should be held until an effective adminis-
tration is again set up in Southern
Sudan? Does he not consider that
Britain is under an obligation to see that
such an administration must be in elled
before a general election or plebiscite il
held? , _ _ _, __,»'.i....;;.,. -.'. jg Ln .
Mr. Macmillan: If the plebiscite is
held. it will be part of the duty of the
international Commission to report
whether the conditions are suitable. .-.- 3
Mr. Spence : Has my right hon. Friend
made it denite that it must not be held
until there is an administration actually
in being and effective? . _.' 3 ;;."_._'._';___,';
Mr. Macmillan: We are one of the:
parties to the agreement ol February.
I953. and cannot unilaterally denounce
it; we must try to rnalce it elleetive. Of
course the situation tn the Sudan 15 one
on the things which causes us concern.but that in my view is not a ground ft!
withdrawing torn the undertaking that
by one means or another the people d
the Sudan should have the right to decide
what their future should 3 A
Captain Walcrhouset Do I understand
my right hon. Friend to say that the Inter-
national Commission will not only have
the right to supervise the election but also
have the right to say whether or not con-
ditions are ripe for the eleetior. ~ -;»---; - ~ 1. e-us.._..-- __nJ|? J l'
Mr. Macmillan: '1 think it would b¬
diicult to operate the work of super-_
vision without having some say as to
whether it is possible to hold it at Iu..0t'v
.92tr. Spence: lbeg-to give notice cl my
intention to raise the matter again on the
Adjournment."-H -rr rv ¢9:"'lI i l:.rr3c -
' 24. Maine Walt asked the Secretary ti
State for Foreign Allairs what speeill
steps Her Majesty's Government proposeto talte to protect the interests of the
Southern Sudanese. r-I. .=.:.. :. .1-.v'J. ,._;:'.t-z
' -"""T., _ '__~ --41-~-U --..1----.--a--._ .-_ I-I '_':.-"A;li'i@ 1"r"".?- " F '1 .~." .**~'- 1."-.-.rr-:2-w.'.-r.".4+?.-7"? =1 earl 1-2+ '.*---":1"
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FORMER FOREIGN OFFICE
OFFICIALS DISAPPEARANCE! ,,,
Motion made. and Question proposed,
That this House do now adyourn.-r
[M'r. Buchnn-H¢'pbur|'l.] '"" "_"""T'- " '7'
3.34 pm. H-- I-I -. 92_... . .3, ;____|_-
The Secretary ol State Io: Foreign
Allairs tlslr. Harold Macmillan!: It
can rarely have happened in our long
Parliamentary history that t.he politicalhead of a Department should have had
to unfold to the House ol Commons so
painful e story as that which it is our
duty to consider today. To understand-though not. cl course. to excuse~thisstory it is necessary to east our minds
bac' to the 1930s and to recall the kind
of background against which the two
principal characters grew Up. - -
At that time all ltinds of violent
opinions were being ettpressed. The
circumstances of the Spanish Civil War.
with Fascists and Communists backing
the rival torces. divided British and. in~
decd. European opinion acutely. This
had a particularly disturbing ellect upon
oung peo le. many of whom. we remem-ber. thought it their duty actually to takepart in these erce revolutionary
llrulcl. It --"1. .1~L-'=-'3 s.!-"i-1'-..."'."' -1- .~-A-T.
When Hitler had made his pact with
Stalin and the Second World War began.
some of those who had espoused extremist
views found that their ideological beliefs
exerted rt pull which ans to "roe: strongerthan their patriotism. n Clash or
l 'alties -was buried in 194] by ouralliance with Russia. But. when the
war ended and there came an estrange-
ment between this country and Com-
munist Russia. it revived. . _. __ _.. _ ..
' Thus it was that men could be lound
in Britain who could put the interests
another country before those of their
own. and could commit the hom'ble'crime
of treachery. This occurred not only
among criminals and degenerates, but_tn-men holding high technical and 5C_lCllCsrs. among men cl philosophic andliferary attainments. and. nally. in thesetwo cases. the subject of this debate. in the
Foreign Service.,__. . _y .
There are many on both sides of the
House who. as Ministers or as private
Members, have seen the work cl the
at c an ="'.t._
--n-- ... 1....-25"..I .
,. _ _g__,_ - _ . _ "__ I _ _ _ _ ......._.....;_._.._..... .......,.._.--...,._.'-- - ,-t, -sq-s-_ -. ... ,-»- --. 1-~ . -. ._.. ' _ --dlbntl-Ilsa-Av-Lu-.1-'_1 '.~- war" T-~. '1'». ' ' Aw '. -'- . "" '7'e -' -Q i .5, J? . ..-..a .' '.'. $0, 1 "" ., "Q; '7 ._'f_"_ '
P 1' I-r in ._ .. - . . -.- .. - _ . . r-
-.'~:"*.'.~:!'-~ or up -_:- .
Foreign Senice at home and abroad. - '1
ltnow they will agree with me when I
say how fortunate we are in this country
to have a Foreign Service of the hiehestE
quality. giving the most loyal and
s-nix service to the Crown and to
nation. I think that all of us today
feeling how severe is the blow that has
been struck against its reputation. OurLL15
are
Foreign Service regards this case as a-personal wound. as when something ol the
"ind strikes at a family, or a ship. or a
regiment. We must recognise. too. that
this ease has caused a profound shock to
Parliament and to the general publie,bot'h .
at home and abroad. .-5% :,|_.» 41;. -,..; r_;,_i
" n-r....._ A-.. ..§.L ...1 ' ' "nctur: ucoliug villi ii'l¬ 3-iltil he '
of this allair. I want to say a few w
on the subject ol ministerial responsi-
bility. When what is known as the
Maclean and Burgess case was entering its
nal phase, with the ndings of the Aus- '_
tralian Royal Commission and the publi-
cation of the White Paper. I made it clear
that lull ministerial responsibility must be
taken by those Ministers, past and present.who presided over or were connected with
the _ oreign Oice during all this period.
This was not a mere act ct quiitotistn or
ehivalry; it is a plain constitutionaltruth. It will be a sorry day whenwe try to elevate something caled the
Foreign Ollice or the Treasury or any
other Department of State into a separate -
entity enjoying a kind of life, respon-
giblllly and power of its own. not eon-
ttolled by Ministers and not subject to
lull Parliamentary authorityu .--~
1; 92'l:::'_.f:.'E. ';:;_.d"92l'!.l.'L-|::; E"- IVIIIIISIIFII. lllu Pulls:-u;sa euvuv, I-III-In
bear the responsibility lot. what 308-
wrong. -Alter all. they are not slow totalre credit for anything that goes right.
This does not mean t at they have to
accept responsibility for Wrongful acts on
the part of their otcials ol which theyhave no prior knowledge. But in dis- -3:-
cussing this ease it is quite wrong to
assert that the Foreign Otlice, it by that
is meant otcials made decisions d -.-.
their own. Ministers are responsible end,i
i
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i.
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in fact. toot all the im rtant decisions. 'Moreover. they took tlfoose decisions in
full knowledge of all the relevant facts
so far as they were known at the time.,. ., ,'-..-. e,
The House will realise that both the
Opposition and the present Government
share the responsibility. The main acts
in the drama took place while the Oppo-
sition were in power. - The investigation
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92
3into the leak, the narrowing of the sus»
picion down to Maclean. and the escape
of the two traitors -that Government took
n number of steps before. during and
after their ight. -
When the present Government sue-
oeeded in October. I951. much had
already been done to investigate the
whole circumstances of the case and to
improve our security measures. From
that point. the responsibility rests with
them. - - ~
"Tl-ta 92I."l-t' Dllllr VV lllllb I Ill-lbll
September has given a but. I
lieve, correct and objective. account of
the story of these two men and of the
various incidents that surround this
strange drama. I have seen a large
number of criticisms in the Press and else-
where arising from the White Paper. and
1 fear it will be necessary to deal with
them in some detail.
' First. there is the general question of
the amount of information given io ihe
public. We are accused of having said
too little and too late. Secondly. there
are the detailed criticisms of the way the
affair was dealt with throughout its
various stages. The chief points at issue
are. I think. as follows. s
There is the question of the originalafpointments of Maclcan and Burgess
iiergent as they were. There is the
question of their progress in the Service.
There is the question of whether. in view
of certain incidents in their careers. Mac-
lean and Burgess should have been
dismissed the Service. or. at least.
whether they should have been posted
as they were. There is the question of
the watch kept upon Maclean when he
became suspect. There is the uestioriof the escape of Maclean. and how he
got warning. and whether he should have
been prevented [tom leaving England
tilting Burgess with him. There is the
question of the defection of Mrs. Mac-
lean. There is ti general criticism of the
incompetence or inefficiency of the
security -measures -taken both by the
Foreign Oice and by the Security
W. ._.._.?. : -. ...
I will try to deal with all these if I can.
but before I do so perhaps the House will
allow me to make one or two preliminary
observations. T _ j _
It has been stated that security in the
Foreign Ofiicc ought to be in the hands at
ll c :1
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Farmer egreign Oict 1 NOVEMBER 195$ Oicinfr-v.!isa,ppearance I490
the Security Service. It is argued that
Foreign Service ofliccrs who are dealing
with security are amateurs or are doing
a job for which they have no background
or training. At present. as the House
perhaps knows. each public Department
is responsible for its own securitythe
Foreign Office. the Ministry of Supply.
and all the other public Departments.
The oflicials who are for the time being
in charge of this work are in the closest
and most constant touch with the Security
Service and continually seek their advice,
and I know of no case where their advice
has been disregarded. j _ __ . "
It is true that the Foreign Oice
oicials-it is true for the Ministry of
Supply or other Departmentsare
amateurs in the sense that they do not
spend their whole careers upon this job.
Nevertheless. this has a corresponding
advantage, for it means that an increasing
number of ollicers in the Service. both at
home and abroad. gain some experience
of security work. Security work in the
Foreign Service really falls into two
categories. Many hon. Members will
know this well. There is what one might
call the physical and technical side -
the boxes. the keys. the ciphers. the pre-
cautions against listening in apparatus,
and all the rest of that side of it. " '
Then there is what one might call the
human side. involving personalities. It
is argued that members of the Service
itself have a natural reluctance to report
adversely on or to take action against
their own colleagues. But I believe-7!
hope the House. on reection. will share
this viewthat. broadly speaking. security
IS well as efciericy is better safeguarded
in this way and s due sense of respon-
sibility is thus maintained. _ I 7 _.
.- For my part. I ant not r_ouch_attracted
by the only other alternative. that thereshould be: lsind of N.K.V.D. or Ogpi:
system in our public oices: in other
words. that everybody. Whfvf 11¢ 80¢!
and whatever he does. high and low.
should be watched by an appropriate
oicer of a police department. e
' Mr. Percy Daines East Ham. North! :
r0se- - -
. Mr. Macmillan : I have a long. speechto make. Perhaps l might allowed todevelop what 1 ave to say in detaiL .1,
. L. .
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. _ ,. .. .t - -.- »' .Il~mt FOHIIBI Page-5-ii om 7 Novziiiatt 1955 017'-:='¢1r-Duviiiwnrnnnr - we
Mr. Daines 1 Will the right hon. Gentle-
man tell us the status of the chief oicer
in charge of security at the Foreign Ollice?
htr. Macmillan : The Permanent Under-
Secretary. the Head ol the Department.
The status ot the ofcer upon whom this
would mainly devolve would be that oi
_ll'l UdCf-s%IClIy. u_-,-_~ -¢_§-- 'irf':.
Having made that point, there is just
one other point that l should like to
' malie before I come to the details. All
through the criticisms which have been
madel do not complain of them-l have
felt a sense oi impatience, and. indeed,
natural impatience. that action of I pre-
cautionary kind was not taken or could
not have been taken when it might still
have been eective. I am hound to say
that l think some of these complaints are
based on it misapprehension of the rightscl a citizen in ii free society in time dpeace. l shall revert to this point at nlitter stage. but I should like to marl: itere. - '
» I would only venture to add this warn-
ing. Action against employees. whether
d tli_e_State or anybody else, arising fromstisgicion and not irom prool may beginwit _good motives, and it may avert seri-
ous inconveniences or even disasters. bin,
judging from what has happened in some
other countries. such a practice soon de-
generates into the satisfaction of personalvendertas or a general system of tyranny.all in the name of public satety.- --_-
Now l should like to say a word on the
question of the handling oi publicity. Itis said that the statements made either by
Foreign Oice spokesmen or b ' Ministersduring all these years have been disin-
genuous and obscure. Why, it is asked,
was not more information given earlier
in greater volume and spontaneously?
Of course, l do not intend to try to con-
vince the House that everything that hasbeen done by myself or my J!l'CdOO¢8!-OIIhas been absolutely right an _ prudent inevery detail. Happily, there is very little
experience ct this sort of thing In our
country. and successive Ministers have
not found it easy to strike just the right
balance between saying too little and
saying too much. ...'- .-, ' 1"
' l am gore, however, that they! have allbeen in uenced by one over-n ing cott-sideration. Naturally. the disappearanceof the two men opened up a arge new
x _ . ..,. -. NW ~ir- ' ' W_,_ __._ .- H » .7 E A " '_ '- i<2._ __ _ ___v,_%$ . .. -,1--i--u-wvuv . I5": v 49-eII'.s-aw-9..eld of investigation for the Security SI-
vice. These inquiries continued Isl I
long time; indeed, for several years. At
any stage while they were in progress I
full statement would have lndicatctll
the world the degree to which they were
meeting with Consecoently. asanyone with any experience oi this kind
' of work knows. the investigation itself
might have been compromised._ ll one
is working on a line which may lead to
success and perhaps to prosecution. the
less one tall-is about it the better and that
is what we meant by the paragraph inthe White Paper when we said :, .. .;.:.'.;
" Counter-espionage depends for its nicest
ort the maximum secrecy of its methods. Nor
is it desirable at any to let me othe:
side know bow much has been discos-
guess at what means have been
"°°,""' I-' - ---- -; = 1* " i-'- i t -..='..I-"
This governed the problem of the liming
Of public statemcnll,-:. ;'.'v- :::-3 r.;' r::;r.'
Unless we were to publish 8 kind d
running commentary such as would have
been highly prejudicial to the work d
the Security Service. we had to decide on
the right moment for telling what we
knew ct the story. hiiiiistm may have
decided wisely or unwiscly, but the para-
mount consideration-and I want I0
emphasise it~was for facilitating the work
of investigation in its widest sense and,
above sll-and perhaps this is the mostlmpomnt point--d not endangeringva uable sources. ,_.._ , . ... ,, .-...._-r rIt is worth looking tiseti to-inein-ea:
which the case developed. When Mac
and Burgess fled in May. I95]. the rst
thought of those responsible had to be
not how much they could tell the public.
but what they could do to minimise the
harm that had been clone. The Security
Service still had extensive inquiries to
make, not merely to reconstruct the stoqr
but to improve the Service. But when
Pctrov defected on 3rd April. 1954. I
whole new vista on the case was opened
up." . - ; -- -" - '
On 3rd £54, W "$snsirai_iin
Government set up n Royal Commission
and it was clear thatthe hearing ofPetrov's
testimony in many matters-in many
matters quite unconnected with Maelean
and But-gess-was to be n vital part cl
the work of that Commission. From then
on his credibility as ii witness was to be
under examination. We knew in April.
1954, that the Australian Government in-
tended to set up a Royal Commission.. -- - ' .- '.-- -.-.=i'-'1-.-= - - "' 'i.'i+'a-;7.=-'.-2*...» »II'-71* 1 ~""'-'~r-="~*~=-T-"'." ' " ' " ~ -1 r ~ " ""
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cs41493 Formgoreign Ofct T NOVEMBER I955 Oicials-Disappearance
When. therefore the Press announced on
28th April. I954. that Petrov possessed
iniormaiion hearing on the case of
Burgess and Maclean, we were unable
to conrm or deny the truth of thatinformation. The statement was made
in the rst place on 28th April
that his information was hearsay in-
formation, which, of course, it was.
and was to be treated with reserve until
a fuller account had been received from
Australia. .- it ;'.'.'*.';.. :..f-0 " -_ - '
. Pcttov let it be known that h. as soon
as he said anything to the Australian
Security and Intelligence Organisation itwas to be gliven publicity in this country.he would t en refuse to say any more atall. This is a most important point.
Since it was essential that Petrov s ould
give his evidence before the Royal Com-mission. it was decided not to make any
further announcements bearing on histestimony. The Report of the RoyalCommission is dated 22nd August, I955.
It was laid before the Australian
Parliament and rst became public on
14th September. 195$. It then becamepossible to answer questions which haditherto remained unanswered and that
was done by the Foreign Oice spokes-
man "in reply to questions arising out ofan article in the People on Sunday._I_8th September and the "hite Paper pub-lished nine days alter the publication oithe Royal C.ornmissioos Report. -
- Having made those rst points, I should
now like to deal with the specic questions
which I mentioned -earlier. Since therst three all related to the olcial career;
of Burgess and Maclean and their pro-
gress in the Foreign Service, I will deal
with them together. I should rst em-
phasise, however. that the circumstances
in which the two men entered the Service
were very different. Macle-an came into
the Diplomatic Service before the war by
a very severe competitive examination, in
which he showed conspicuous ability. I
have heard it said that the Civil Service
Commission Board. who interview all
candidates for the Service. ought to have
known of Maclean's reputation for ex-
treme Left-wing opinions while he was
an undergraduate. In fact. his college
authorities gave him an exceptionally
good report in which no mention was
made of his Left-wing views. But even
supposing that the Board had known that
I! CU _____ -.-../----~- -' -;'.r",,,,.,,_," 'Tt.- ww 1 V -' '»:.""-"Q--'_'-*-.,.-.:._:;,. ..:.»-;'."-...?.- 213-.--»..-:»r5i=*r¢==e*-'!**¬" '¥?'=:"f F -e .- -- "' 5 s'he had expressed Communist opinions ll
an undergraduate-_--r -p»--;. ¢---
Mr. Charles Pannell Leeds. West!:On I Opoint of order. In the nomencla-
ture politics. Left-wing is a con-
notation for this side of the House. CanI aslr|you. therefore, Mr. Speaker. to askthe oreign SCCICIBIEO to use lainEnglish and refer to mmunist agrib-
tions and not Left-wing atliliations? --It
, .Mr. Macmillan: I said extreme Leil-
wing. which I thinlt_was a lair point.
Perhaps the hon. Member for Leeds. West
Mr. C. Pannell! will wait for what Iwas about to say. '- "-*4"-t-" -
I was about to aslt the House, whether
supposing the Board had known thathad expressed even Communist sympathies
as an undergraduate. in those days would
the House have felt that such a man
should automatically be excluded fromthe public service. IHON. MEMBERS: No. would the House not have togarded' those leanings as one of the
aberrations of youth which he might he
expected to live down. It is not fair
_to bring in an atmosphere of todaywhen Judging events of the 1930;
It is important to realise that until
and alter Macleans appointment in
Cairo in 1948 the quality of his work WI!
not only good. but outstanding among his
contemporaric.s._ ._ 1 , v__ ______ , _'_ ._ ;',._
- Durin his rst foueen years in theService his conduct gave rise to no ad-
verse comment. His behaviour in Cairo.which culminated in a sudden applicationfor sick leave. at the time was interpreted
as the result of a prolonged period d
overwork and strain. He was regarded as
a valuable member of the Service and
there was every reason to suppose and tohope that he might make a tull recovery
from what appeared to be a sort of ner-
hrlr lrrl urn ' _ -_¥9l3$ -...e--toms. ._:_:;;_L_--Q_;_]_;£_£';-9;;;_-: _
' The Foreign Office, like. I think, any
other decent employer in the circum-
stances-it should be remembered that plthe time there was no suspicion of anykind as to his loyaltytried to see thatI man who had served for fourteen year:got the right medical treatment an hadit chance of recovery. It is quite easy to
say that our trusting him in that position
was wrong. Perhaps it was. It is very
easy to be wise after the event. But he
was given a second chance. and at the
end dd live months medical treatment
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. ." - '"---"-...'" f1;'i"-ms Former roar?» on 1 novt-tuaaaitsss opnt¢n-oznppninu mi
I [MIL MACMlLLAN.] - 7--Pi '--"
was put at the head of' Department. . - -the Americane 0
_ This Department in the Foreign Otliee
deals principally with Latin-American
' : J affairs. Major questions relating to the
United Slates are dealt with rcgionally
. for instance. N.A.T.0. affairs would
tiome under tl]c_§92cstcrn Organisations
Department. Middle East affairs would
come under the Middle Eastern Depart-
merit. The United Slates questions which
are dealt with by the American Depart-
ment are largely routine, welfare of forces.
yisitors. and the like. The appointment
ensprovided an opportunity
conduct and his health.
E
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1I implied no promotion for Maciean andto watch his
At this time. may l remind the House.
; fno suspicion rested on him. As L!
he fell under suspicion, in the middle of
April. l9Sl. one of those informed was
Sir Roger Makins. now our distinguished
and highly successful Ambassador in
Washington. Sir Roger
immediate chief. being thewas then his
Superintending Undcr~Sccrctary of the group into whic
this Department fell. it is. however, quite
-lrll
, i false and grossly unfair
. 4
iriilllater. lt is in great detail.E! --I4,
how promoted. and what. lean: career up to date. how he got
If tr] t_ .,_ untrue, as has been suggested. that Sir
Roger Makins was in any way responsible
for the conduct ot an inquiry. or that be
checked or cleared Maclean. It is not
the case at all and such a suggestion is
to Sir Roger- Makins. That is the career of Maelean
. up to date. Burgess's career-=
Mr. E. Shinwell Easington!: How did
Maclean come under suspicion? - -. .
Mr. Macmillan: I am coming to that
That is Mac»
_ in.
was his career
.; up to the dateotthe suspicion.__ ',_ ,_
ii.-*'
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. __ He had served with theBurgess's career in the Foreign Service
was, of course, totally different from that
of Macleans. He was talten on as tem-
porary Prcss Ofliccr in the News Depart-
ment ol the Foreign Ollice, which was
then housed in the Ministry of Informa-tion. in 1944. His res-ious career, to the
i extent that it was t en known, gave what
seemed to be a respectable background. 1
B.B.C. for six
- I ~i'-- "" I 1:"
., - .. From early 1939 until the end of 1940.
Burgess worked in the special Depat1-
- ment which. on the outbreak of war, wasresponsible for o pend? 16' neutralcountries. The aplgoilllment to the News
Department was temporary and did Dd
involve establishment. In I945. he toti
advantage of the opportunity open so
temporary oilicers to apply for establish-
ment in the junior branch of the Foreign
Service. He appeared before a CivilService Commission Board which duly
recommended him for establishment. ' i_. . , . . .._ -1...; 4,,
In fairness to the Board. I ought to
sly that it was impressed by Burgess:
excellent academic record as well as by
the good reports which it received cover-
ing his employment in the B.B.C. and h
the Foreign Omce News Department.
However. I must also say that we now
know that Burgess: wort while with thewartime Depirrlment, to which I havelet-red, had ...en unsatisfactory. It is. na-
founatcly, the case that during the war
-and pcrh' ps one can hardly wonder at
itmany wrtime Departments did notlice; good rds about their temporary
_ .-. '-,. ._..-.3:--II
The fact remains that neither the
Foreign Ofli nor the Civil Service Com-
mission ltnew of Burgess: failings. This
process by which he was established was
not mmnletnd until Oemlsn. M47. I __- ---_.,_-.__ _..-_ _-___-., .-... ..:
the meantime. the late Mr. Hector
McNeil, who was then Minister of State,
asked that Burgess be appointed to his
private office as a personal assistant be-
cause of his experience in drafting and
general publicity worlt. and this was done
tn December, _-; ;_ ",'.' _ . 5.} $1"
~ Burgess proved useful to Mr. McNeil
who recommended him for promotion to
the senior branch of the Foreign Set-trig
but as there was a -good deal of doubt
about his suitability for the senior branch,
and as he had little experience of the
ordinary duties of the Foreign Ollice it
was decided that he should be given a
thorough trial on routine work in the
Far Eastern Department.-----e ~ ~' -:."I
" While he was working'in that Depart-
ment, allegations were made that during
a period ot leave abroad, late in_l949,he had been guiirly oi a serious inniscre-
tiou about Intel igence matters. The
charges were fully investigated by I dis-
ciplinary board. and he was severelyreprimancdied, ijnlgrmid that he wotrld betransferr an t at is ros s 0motion would be diminl:ho£°c='-""-gt?4
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I491 'Fomter rt».-1;» om 1 NOVEMBER toss ofrrati-nrnpp.'-time; ms
There was much discussion as to his
future post. It was desirable to send
him to a post where his general suitability
for the Foreign Service could be properly
tested. ll was. therefore. decided to sendhim to _9292ashinEton for I period of trial
on I.0Ulll'lC wor . - _
'T1mrn has-Q Y-v-on lllIl'IP |:l92I"lG--'|h'_1--no in--o -.-..92--. -...:-.-.--.-..- -.---,
hating been guilty oi serious ir|discre-
tions. he was promoted. That is not so.
He remained. as he had been since his
establishment. a member of the fourth
grade of the iunior branch of the
vice. in Washington. Burgess was i
failure. Die Ambassador reported un-
Iavourably both upon his office work and
upon his behaviour outside. and in May.
1951. four years after his establishment
and nine months after his appointment at
Washington. he was recalled. and the
conclusion was reached that he would
oi Burg-esss disappearance there were no
prounds for suspecting that he was work-
ing against the security of the State.
He had been indiscteet. hut. then. indis
crction is not generally the characteristic
of a secret agent.
there is one further point that I thinlr.
in fairness to the late Mr. McNeil. I
ought to mention. I observe that a
former Minister and Privy Councillor
recently stated that he had warned
Mchleil about Burgess when he became
his personal assistant. I am bound to
say that I ice! very wrry about the
timing ct this particular revelation. ,
So much or the oicial careers of the
two men. I think that I have said enough
to show that it simply is not true that
they were protected by senior officials. It
may be argued that their superiors ought
to have known more about them. and I
shall have something to say later about
the subsequent improvements in theForsign Office system of reports on-the
Ill . - .
' - ...__:- -.. _-_._.: . _.-,,- . ...,__.,.
I must now deal with the other ques-
tions which I posed about the esca ofthe two men. the competence or the
measures taken to keep Maclean under
$ser-ration and how he got warnmg of
IL To understand the problem. I must
rst say something of the background.
It was in January. l949-I very iro-
portant datethat I report was received
that certain British iniormation had
UCII"been from British sources. ,
5 ,Diligcnt inquiries were begun imme-I fesvdyears earlier. However, there'w_as
no in tcation as to how it had hccomcavailable. The lealc might not even iiave92
dialely. but the eld of possibilities to llcovered was very large. Further evidenceit.| ul
have to leave the service. Until the dayil
I
l--which was available when '
investigation began-gradually came to
light. and it is. in tact. greatly to the
credit of the security authorities that the
circumstance in which that information
had leaked to the Soviet Cizwerninent
became lznown at ell. I cannot give the
details. but it was an almost incredible
act of skill that. given the magnitude
of the taslt. how broad the possible eld
was and the paucity of the information
available. the eld was gradually
narrowed down in the course of two wean
to one suspect. and that the right one,
The I-Iouse will not expect meto give
full details of the investigations. but '1
hope that it will accept my assurance
that they were pursued with diligence and
etliciency. But. even when suspicion
narrowed down to Maclean. the evidence
was both inconclusive and circumstantial.
The best. perhaps the only. chance cl
obtaining eviderme tshish weld be used
to support a prosecution lay in obtaining
admissions from him. But there v.-as no
firm starting point for an interview with
him. It was highly desirable to obtain
further information about his contacts
and activities which could be used as Q
reason for questioning him.,¢.,,$._.,_;,_,.-1_;_;_
j "A watch was. therefore, put upon hint
for the primary purpose*-indeed. the sole
purpose-of securing such information.
As was said in the Wnite Faper. every-
thing depended u n the interview. andits success depencigl also on the use of
an element of surprise. If he were alerted
to the fact that be was under investigation
or suspected it, all hope of obtaining theessential contirmato? evidence___would_-probably have gone or good. _-_'_;;3
' For that reason. the decision not to
watch him at Tatseld was deliberately
taken after n careful survey had been
made of the technical problems involved
in keeping him under observation in the
neighbourhood of his home. The con-
clusion was that the risk that be would
be put on his guard would be too great.
Obviously. it is far more ditlicult in the
'-country to conceal trom a man the Iaet.. . '1.-:-
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HI499 _ Former Foreign Olcl 7 1 NOVEMBER 195$ Ocinls
{Mic Mscmu.m.] ~ '-'--_. ;._-"~_.» .-- -- .-
that he is being watched than it ls to
watch his movements or his contacts in
L°"d°n- -- .'"-1: 1 ".4.- ."'".. r-r-;..--
-' I shouldfperhaps, remind the House
that in the case of Fuchs the Security
Service decided to take exactly the same
risk, and they were justified in the result.
The object ot the watch was to obtain
evidence of contact or of something that
he did that would be conclusive against
Maclcan. It was in no sense its purpose
to prevent him leaving the country. It
is perhaps worth remembering that there
is no power to prevent s man against
whom no charge can be brought from
leaving this country. Whether this gap
in our security ought to be closed is an-
other question, and 1 will come to it in
I moment. T - t - . ..... .
Mr. David Loga Liverpool. Scot-
land Division!: Would the right hon.
Gentleman explain how two men inresponsible positions and guiltyog all
aggravated offence. if proved, got
leave of absence at the end of the weelt.
and why both of them. when they were
supposed to be guilty ot treason. were
allowed to leave the country? -. .
Mr. Macmillan: The rst point was.
of course. that to have refused week-
end leavewhich would have been very
trnusual-would have put the man on_lul
guard all the more. And as the obtect
was to try to catch hirn in an actioniwhich would justify a charge. it was very
important not to refuse leave or any other
normal advantage given to the servant;
and. as I have tried to explain. there tsno power under the law of England toprevent a man leaving against w om the
rexecutive is not prepar$ to prwuw :
charge. Whether there ought to be I will
come to in a moment. but that was the
law as it then stood. and. indeed. as it
"55 l°dY'r':'e~.-.". 1- P..-:i.~s=;:t.-'.=.'--'=from a general uneasiness on this
it would need only the slightest indication
that the circle was narrowing to put him
on lllS guard. He would have been par-
ticularly sensitive to any hint. direct 18'
indirect, that he was under investigation.-'
Although. therefore. the circumstances d
the disappearance are certainly explshh '-
ab_le rn_terms of what is called a tip 06."
,lt _ts quite possible that Maclean may have}
taken ight with Burgess because one eel
other ot them noticed circumstaneesfti
a combination of cireumstancesto which
they would have been particularly sensi-
tive. of eoursewhich may have aroused
their suspieions._ r -~'!-.- -;" . ,. ._-: .f.-3;--luv;-;¢_-'
Mt. R. T. Page! Northampton!:
not the withdrawal ol the secret dments give that "tip ed." and i viewthat w y have we to assume th
was e t..ird traitor here at all?-.<-.-;'..Mr. Macmillan: I am tj Ipoint. That is another possibt ix, andam trying to deal with
wssibnian -' a.-:-.1.._ ',. -1.24;. nu ;
Although. as I say. the eireumstanoias:are exglanatory in the terms d I lip _,
ollT." t ey are not necessarily the etlnet -
ot that. That is what 1 am trying to say.
However, the possibility ol n tip oi _;:
had to be seriously 9Q!!§!tlé[_| and sea@- ._I
s-1
ing and protracted investigations into this i
possibility have been undertaken. and are *-
proceeding even at the present time. '1 .
In this connection. the name ti ond man
"has been mentioned in the House
Commons. but not outside. I feel
all hon. Members would expect-me
reler_to him by name and to explain the
positron. He is Mr. ll. A. R. Philby.
who was a temporary First Secretary at
the British Embassy in Washington from
October. l949._to lune. l9$l, and hadbeen lprivly to much of the investtgati-.0i
E
_ , .. t... .'" - _ -1 v~r'~H . . . . - - _ - . - ' s"--"',' "i J» . 1,. ,|92,"'$u'I ""0-::"4:"-ifs!-':;''.{Za'; F;
_ ., .. .._1 I l -;...;..,.,J ....<. ..-i-.~..a.sva..n.-t' 1-iaIa»....-a-_-l- -tnaaasaaw-itmqtlv-'ItI'=¥1-F w" "* "~'.""-"" ' dun. .
t - -. - _ ' .5...» ¢.--- _ - .. - - -- . .- : 1'! _ .-- .-. -.... . o -. l -I" rec» an 2* - -"=1-. . - "-~.'. ~'- 3'.-..~ H V. n . -'..L~; . . . -.-.7-- '-_-'~'-3-.-n-¥~"'-.-,-_-- -e.-=5-.5~ i " '~. I-'1 -"" "1"" ' "" 1""*r at " . _._...,., . , 77- --- . - - -.
i
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I" J. 1"" '3 -- Id ' ' ~ L--J '.-;.-.a.s-- - Q __ - r_.1 sot rmm S,¢:n'ona 1 NOVEMBER tsss 0[d¢l5!»1¢rr¢rei& '-t'stte'"'*l'-'"'
to resign from the Foreign Service. Since
that date his case has been the subject
of close investigation. No evidence has
been found to show that he" was re-
sponsible lor warning Burgess or
Macletsn. While in Government service
he carried out his duties ably and eon-
scientiously. I have no reason to conclude
'ti1at ll-Ir. Fhilby has at any time betray
the interests of this country, or to identii
him with the so-called "third man. ,'
indeed. there wasone.-l -'1--'-- '----I. I .. _, H,-.3-q=1.|-ie92o,!-ta -:y|_
As regards others whose names have
been in any way associated with this
aair, I have made. or caused to he
made, and studied myself. the most care»
ful. rigorous and impartial investigationinto each case which l have been able
to have made; and I can assure the
House that nobody is being in any way
shielded. I am sure that my predecessors
would not have hesitated to have taken
the appropriate action, if they had found
evidence oi guilt. but, in fact. no such
evidence was found. A number of
Foreign Service ollioers who had asso-
ciated. as oiiiee colleagues or outside.
with Maclean and Burgess were examined
bv the Foreign Qilice SecurityIf. of course. any evidence not already
available can be produced by anybodeither inside or outside this House. i
trust that it will be made available to
the authorities. -- * *"--"~- 1"
:' - , . . - '. , sj '-fl,-J 1}.-_'r il.lLl.Ja-.1
Mr. Herbert Morrison Lcwisham,
South!: It is said in a newspaper this
morning-though I appreciate entirelywhat the Foreian Secretary has said-
that Phiihy and his family have dis-
appeared. Does he regard that a matter
of signicance in all the circumstances
-9.! berm-i i'+~=:.i=_"ltt.'t.i'zn:»i;-tt.*".'$l
i B_Ir. Macmillan: I have noiireasonilo
believe that they have. In fact. I think
_i .l't...iE.>',*-*I.11>.'9W?!';, on .i1?_°¥_..**i',E.'-_-t=-.=
'_ Mr. R. 1. Mellish Berrnondsey!: -It
Inay be that Philby has gone into hiding
oocause of the scandalous ~ publicityarising from certain statements.- _:;:_i_is J
- Mr. Macmillan : Well. 1 was trying to
state the case as fairly and as absolutely
accurately as I ran. l must emphasise,
however. that on the important question
of what decided the two men to escape
we really have, as the hon. Member has
suggested, very little e'videnoe.- st:-.::..-;-.As stated in the White Paperf arrtfn I "km; ments were made to keep certain higha _-;i'classied material tron: Ma-clean. Q
handed or crude as some people may
It- believe. Nevertheless, it is not impossible - 3" t"these arrangements were not as ham-92='
as-a,»-It-Hthat in spite of all the precautions,
Maclean-s_vhom we now know was In -
experienced agent-may _have jtecottte
awareof them. :.- -?.=1'92ts :4 -new é.--rt!
-- Suspicion has also been east on toie .. . ,
who were aware of the decision of the
then Foreign Secretary that Maeleattshould be interrogated: That decision t=-*1
was taken on 25th May. I951. but the y_
evidence of Petrov suggested "that the "**
ight of the two men was planned wdl_;{> '.
before that date and, therefore, that really '~"
answers the ease if any suspicion falling "if; .'upon those who were privy to the decision " "
of the right hon. Gentleman. *v_-='_-1-4-1-f":~-"e..'.".
- Mr. Sidney Sllvermaa Nelson' and
aloe}: i understwd from the right hon.
Gentleman's account of the matter earlier ~---W
that right up to the day when Burgess tied .
this country there was no suspicion
-against him at all and there was no invev '
ligation on grounds. H leave 9
that right. can the right hon. Gentleman -:.
then say why Burgess should run awa -"""1;- '._- - - -- 'i"'* I'.'. f. _'-'a I
-' MI. Macmillan: Well. the fact that """"i
there was no suspicion on the part d the
uutitorities against him does not mean
-that he may not have been conscious d
his own guilt, and, therefore. thought that
tbebestthingwastobco. latnjust -
stating that there was not any suspicion
against him. l titinli that that deals ,1.
that matter. I have been asked for full£'a-:..'_-.4.»-
-'7'?>¢~ '
.7-J 1.d-nan ..-
-details. and t think that tough: to and -*1 -.
-Illm.-"!el.!'l.! .1.-.-.1 so--r.mrma '-not-t:-_vI£ ;=_'-'»-'é{"
' There is then the question at Mrs. ' "
is-laciean. it is said site ought to gr-1 H
have been prevented from goin to Swit- -_ -Q _.zerland to live_with her molier.
Dunbar. It may be said that if was naive 7,1,. 1
to rely on Mrs. l-laclean's' assurance. and "
mother: assurance. that -.1-die»I intouch withtheSocttr£' Servicearldpon Mrs. Macleatfs alleg desit'e_$_0 3;. yeducate the children out of ngland._ £-
" However. the point is that Mrs. htae-lean is really of iittte importance. ' '
thing the knew before Maclean left
must have got from him. She had no -=11?
means of obtaining any information alt: -he left, and whether she remained in this
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country or left made little ditlerenee. She
eould do no particular good in England;
she could do no particular harm abroad.
Again. the over-riding fact remains that
there is no power under the law of
England to prevent her from leaving this
wunuy___ rt . . ;.v_ ._, I d_,nI92Il-_;.|I92_I-4.92_r.',-: .
Hon. Members will aslt what lessons
have been learned and what steps have
been tal;cn-that really is the vital point
-to try to ensure that there can be no
repetition of such a deplorable story.This leads me to the question of security
checks. Since l94$. a check has regularly
been made on all new entrants into the
Foreign Olliee and all new temporary
employees. This cheek is made lo ensure
that no adverse security record is we
against candidates for employment. y V
Since I945. all olcers already em-
ployed have been so checked. but it is
acknowledged that this check is not ade-
quate-tvhat is called the negative check
--since it will only reveal persons who
have already come to the notice--un-
favourable notice. if you liIte-of the
security authorities. Indeed. when
applied to Maelean and Burgess, it re-
vealed nothing about the subversivepolitical associations ol their early days.rout I951 onwards. it was recognisedthat more must be done to ehcc the
reliability of persons holding importantpositions in the public service. -... J
At the beginning oi I952. a regular
system of positive vetting was introduced.This moccdure entails detailed researchinto t whole background of the olcer
concerned, including his school and titli-versity career and arm previous employ-. mcnt before joining e Foreign Service.
In a large number of cases. personal in-
quiries are made of university tutors. past
employers and others who have personal
knowledge of the candidate. Since 1952..about 900 cases, involving the senior. gtnior and clerical branches _ol the
oreign Service. have been examined. So
far, there have been tour cases in the
tical activities and associations have led
to his leaving the Service altogether. In
about half-a-dozen other cases it has been
considered prudent to move ofcers to
other tvorlt of less importance to the
national security. or to accept their
resignations. -This dpositive vetting procedure is notconne to the Foreign Service. It is
tr c as 'lilioreign Service in which an oloefs holi--.- - s - H,- -sr--+r"'-_~."'. '"-{'~a-.-"~-.: ~.'7-5-15": '-"_'tsos Former r .... opt.» 1 tvovstvtnsn 1955 opera:-tgjéirain _tstit,
now o ted in all Government Dept!-Qments mug access to classied IlillUI'iIi:.'involving the security of the State. lmttle-Jdiately after the disalppearance Of Mldll 1,and Burgess. the rig t hon. Gentleman they,
Member for Lewisham. South. who was!then Foreign Secretary. set up a com-at-Amittce to look into all aspects oi
security arrangements in the Foreign
Service. The committee was an oictal
one, and it may perhaps he criticised on _
that account. but I think that it was I,wise act of the right hon. Gentleman. whochose oieials singularly well suited to!
their tasl:-men with great records d -
' Shortly sitter e disappearance Sdevotion to the public The com-
mittee was presided over by Sir Alexander
Cadogan, and Sir Net-ile Bland and Sir
Norman Brook. Secretary to the Cabilillls
were the other members. t__ . t '_'
The committee reported in November.I951. apjrovinlg the security check.eluding ¢ ans or positive vettingwhich had aiieady been prepared. It
recommended that vetting should be
extended to all members of the scnitx
branches and the senior grades of _£he
junior branches oi the Foreign Service.
In fact. the present practice oi the
Foreign Service goes beyond that recogn-
lnendation. since many more jutucl
grades. which must inevitably be em-
ployed on highly classied work. are
positively vetted. The committee con-
sidered not only political unreliability in
itself. but the problem of character
detects, which might lay an ollieer open
to blackmail. or otherwise undermine
his loyalty and sense of responsibility. --t"
l an
Macleau and Burgess. and belore the
Cadogan Committee reported. fresh in-
structions had been issued hy the Perma-
nent Under-Sccretary of the Foreign
Ollioe to heads of missions and other
senior oicials impressing upon them -the
need to watch in particular the forms dbehaviour among their sta liltglz to sapan officer: discretion or sense respon-
-sibilitv or his oublie durl. or to esoose
him to undue inuence or blacltma or
to heighten in undue measure the tension
of his existence. The committee com-
mented on these instructions with
approval and emphasised that not only
the heads of missions but some innit:
oilieers in charge oi sections throughoti
the Foreign Service, and. indeed. in other
services. ought to be. reminded of the:
. , , I I _ ___ ,.._._- ...-_-,..._....._. .------»~--- ~g-Q46 . -- - -- - ~~- - * _ *"'_ - - ,-. - - '_.*'¢!--,_ ,-... - . 9 -. - 1- ;1-.-_'.'--;-;"92e-u§"!*.=92-..-;!l:d""'-*-'-_* ? "='-5'!*."" .5 ».- _._;_ ,__~-_ . i, _-s t . s... - . u _ __ _ g , ._ .. .k _... --.....- .-;-.- .-=. t-1 -. - _- ;_" .- A: ' _ ' ..-2._'...." i;:;1:".;.:..._;;:;.-.:j"_..;§':_;T*;t.L;,_._._ _ .. . ~_ .. -. -. 3 - _;_ . , -_ -_-__. -» ,tr
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rsos ramegs}-"zit and 1 No92'EMaEa'tss'i oirtdatri-..arr¢»~7w' "fads
responsibility for the security and personal
reliability of the stalls serving _underthem. and instructions were issued in this_ =_ . -- ..-. » ..s--r-I 1...... tsense. . ,.4 __. .. .'-... -.. --
, Mr. R. H. S. Crossrnan Coventry,
East!: May I aslc the right hon. Gentle-
"man one question on vetting? Did he-say that there was no vettin at thefForeign Otlice before 194$; t at is to
y say. between I939 and I945 oicials were
not submitted to political vetting to which
other people who came into the Govern-__..a ....._.2.,_ L,..l IQ -..92.__£pQ -a. | -. -IIIEIII DUI VIUU -lldi-I IU DUUITIIII "' _' I
Mr. Macmillan: I said it was of a
negative kind. It was merely said.
I-lave you got anything against this
man? and the point of the positive
vetting is liligctll research into the pre-
vious records. In the old days. we should
have been rather shocked at positive
vetting. but we have had to aoeept it as
one of the necessities of present eon-
dici - '| --. . I-I 1 .- ".4; q-- -... ...
I want to reter to a point to which I
have seen some allusion made--recruit-
ment tor the Foreign Service. Perhaps
the right hon. Gentleman is to raise the
tnattet. because i saw something in one
ot the newspapers this morning which
made me think that he might intend to
do so. It is said that recruitment is
kept to a closed circle. and that its
are taken tw narrowly {rota
one social group. I think I should
remind the House exactly what has hap-
pened about the Foreign S-ervioe. There
rs so much going on that it is always
dinicutt _1o remember, and the__publi;
IIICIDOIT IS SEO -_ ;;'_-_,_ _:;_'rg"_-, _-ye!; __;;:,;_;
During the war. my right hon. Fnend
the Prime Minister. then Foreign Secre-
tary. gave great thought to the question
ot the future oi the Foreign !-le
proposed a scheme to his oollea es inthe Coalition Government on whichumueh
labour was spent. and this scheme made
certain radical changes. The scheme was
let -out in a White Paper. and eenaia
arrangements under it re uired an Orderin Council and a Bill." Ail this was under
the Coalition Government in 1943. 'or' .t.-.»-.-. - - --- ' ">'.n'.r'-H'=?"
- The Leader of the Opposition. the
Deputy Leader of the Opposition and
hit. uevirt. who subsequently became
Foreign Secretary, held high itions inthe Coalition Government. Ah!: the war,and held that otlice. if I remember i-i.gl'i:%n 'im" i
for live years. He was certainly not
Tit to oe unduly inrressed hy the ont-ward semblance ot things: he went to
the inner core. He was not a defender
of privilege. and. at the same time. was
not a man to yield to rejudioe, _lt fellto him to implement the scheme which
.had been laid down by the Act of i943.
ll he had not been satised with it. I am
sure that in his live years at the Foreign
Otlice he would not have hesitated to PCO-
pO§e some amendment or alteration.
Actually. he felt for the Foreign 5-ervitla loyalty and devotion which has been
amp y rewarded by the respect and alien-tion in which name will always be
_he_ld at the foreign Oioeu, ,,;,:, ,,.,-, -1,,
Ir may & -vorth emphasising iih
were the major points of the Eden-Bevin
relorms. if I may call them that. First,
the amalgamation of the Foreign Oioe
and Diplomatic Service with the Consular
Sen-ice and the Commercial Diplomatic
Service into a single whole. That was therst big £oinL Secondly. the reorganisa-tion oi t e arrangements tor recruitment
and training with a view to opening the
service to anyone with sutlicient qualica-
tions. i ougnt to arid. tor there nas been
much misunderstanding on this point,
that the work of selecting recruits tor all
except the most junior grades Of the
Service has for a long time been in the
hands of the Civil Cot"notissionet'e.
"I want to emphasise this. The ForeiService is not a service renewing itself 5
co-option. Its new members have for I
long time been chosen by an outside body.
=-- It is sometimes said that the Foreign
Service, like the rest of the Civil Service,
is a sort of closed shop. that its failures
are protected and that there is no means
of getting rid of incompetent or unsuit-
able people. -l would, bowever._point
out. tnat sinoe the introduction or the
Foreign Service Act. 1943. members d
the. Forcign$ervice have not enjoyed the
"same de ree of security as that of the restof the éivil Service, for this Act intro-
'duced arrangements more like those 1.!
the ghting Services. which provide tr:
compulsory retirement of established
-members who do tlOt malte suicient pro-
gress to justify their retention or pro-
motion. Fitty-nine othcers have been
retired under this Act in the last ten
years. The House will also observe that
jthe new scheme for the conduct of theit _p-..'-
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s-.1-~;-g.". . ----: asG'v'v' The information[ML MACMILLAN. I.-4'-shit w!!! '._i;'
conditions applied not merely to new
entrants but to existing officers who be-
came subject to the new conditions as to
postings. promotion and retirement.
The House will see that the remodellingof the Foreign Service was initiated by aConservative Foreign Secretary and. a terexhaustive inquiry. by a Coalition Gov-
ernment. It was implemented by aLabour Foreign Secretary only ten yearsago in a Par lament which, with all its
faults or merits. cannot be accused--I am speaking of the Parliar_nen_t of 1945
--of being too preiuciiced in favour of
the past or standing too rigidly upon
ancient ways. Therefore. it does not seemso me that a case for a further inquiry
tnto the recruitment and organisation of
the Foreign &rvice has been made out. -Now, with regard to the Security Ser-vice and the Maelean ease there one
point that I should like to emphasise. 1
spoke just now of how this information
was cot and it had to be sifted.
originally availablenecessitated a search in a eld of about-926.000 people. That is to say. on the loch-nical character of how this was got. there[were 6.000 people each ol whom might
have been the man. These theI SecurityService eventually narrowed down to one.
That in this case. unlike the Fuchs case
they were unable to obtain sufficientevidence to justify a charge is. of course. li be regretted. "_ ' ' 5 ,have been made have enormously ltreu -thhegtad the ao§tst:;ity_ gylteul. doubtw teran su ntta rm oventesueaalbe made githin our eeistggg Pstem oflaw. on which I will say a worlbetonel
sit down: but, unfortunately. 8 is notaugleieri: to aagsfy ourseafzs that we haveta ena ieste . ecannotignore;th_e fact tllftssthis incgertl. loliowing uponothers in the world of science. has had a
tTi¢;iOll§ etlet:t_up£o: otrgxreputalion abt-on: at B tnevrta . course, tngilt: allegati9ns__ made by irrespo;;sbleipeople are so exaggerated that they carry,'n*tt them their own refutation. Neva.lthelces. there ia i i"c§l danger that atfoeling might be s cad among our Alliq- that our own reliagility. hitherto regardedEu a model. is no longer to be trusted.
r it ii oi the realest importau nee for ourdefence and bur safety. dependin asthey do on close relations of oontfenee3; our Atllliies. in the old world ind H
new. at successive G vemml should he known to have taiogn all :2:within their power to stop any loopholesand to strengthen any legitimate methodsof defcndiggc our vital iocrett. Do not idoreign o rvers corn e the eaeutposition with the Slllllliglalréé it t¥ag$'..'t'.92.etime ago. I can honestly say that it I 'my belie! that every practical means hasbeen taken which ts open to the Execu-tive. I would. therefore, make an appml
ll!!! We should _ not _ir|jurc our own
interests by spreading abroad I false and, .'- » stlt tdted': The dilcultics in our system of law are J I more m on a pm we of om
very real. Of the skill. rseveranee andloyalty of the Security gfrvioe there can
be no doubt. I should like to add this
tribute: It is indeed remarkable that
we are able to recruit men of such high
character and attainments. The rewards
are not very large ; the responsibilities are
very great. After all, most of us gain
some satisfaction in life not only from
doing a job well but from the public
adlinotvledgrnent of success. These menare cut oil from all that. They work in
secret. Most of their successes-and
there ere. indeed, success:-shmust be keptttict. Any failure hits the headlines. Fort is service. then, not fame but patriotism
is the spur and the reward. ' ..; . .
On the more general aspects oi
i should like to add tins: i am satisedand t ho the House will be satised: It uni '1 r" ' "' " " that all tihcese new arrangements which' tr c as '- Q ' '
i _ l g ;_.r,___ ;-4. if Pus
-_...._.---~-."-',.-.:.=;.,-"1ae=:t "4"l§92'§a§-§"';"i'§l_i5";§l1'-".'Tl3Vl'i5 ;' "'3 ir'" -' r3.:-"rt:1;e.1;1<1F-=-i'f~§3'?t7i5%'1T" if"*?'?77 "-5- 3'-vita" ' ' M ' 'security system ls it stands today.-'.. 1.;
l Before I conclude I hope the I-Iouie 'will bear with me for one or two moments .
for some nal reections. As I
have alread stated. we have to fang g 'world completely Changed from anythingthe older ones among us knew or thoughtpossible; and what a change it is. Since '
I689 in England and since I745 in Scot» I
land there has been no real dispute about
the character oi the regime. Bits: as
have been political conicts at certain
times. there has been no question for allthese years of serious acts oi era-.c&-y ito the country. We have to go back to =
the period of the wars of reli ion to ndany parallel for the new ideological con-tlicts which divide the world and which 3
may continue to divide it for many years '
@666-e.-'..~92._.';..r Qn1iw".¢w
ts 1 out ortheolderones atnon
to realise the new situation w '
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In - .- ., ' _"' "r ..-.aa.& .- ' .....i-.-at»-ii-¢-3" ' " -.-.».-*.s;..t...-.-.'-"iii?-ii»,0, .rmt¢i Foreign Odin 1 NOVEMBER toss owoarpwg and 5"-
ascism. Nazism, Communism and other
lotalitarian methods of government have
produced. It is hard for tis 10 conceive
tot a son betraying his father or a father
fdenotincing his own ch_ildrert._ _92fie cannot
[imagine a state of mind which regards
tr. :2: :;=t= a." 1.: u y. ve r ain e prilems that confronted the Elizabethan
tstatesmen. Burghley and Walsin ham.iiihen the Secret Service rst developed.
when espionage and counter-espionage.
Plot anld coluntea-ploltuizre inseparable tom in ernaiona poi --.---.-t. --:
2 This brings us _up directly'again§t'Jalnew problem. It is really that of public
fsecurity in_a freesociety during a period' of intense ideological warfare. We could.
' of course. reintroduce some methods andt talc: again some powers which we aban-
'doned long ago _and we hoped had gone
for ever. Even in a modied form these
*$E1l.".i.'Z&i"f.'i.-Iii ; ';. .'? l.3 t:' :.' ' ' I a e o -
' line to the House today. The story might
easily have been unravelled if less regard
had been had to the law. _ 4.. .._. -.
Here. may I say that I was struck
t; by a criticism which appeared recently
in one of the popular papers. Why. asked92 this critic. was Mrs. Maclean not pre-
vented from leaving England. This is
I what it said. I quote from the article:
* "' 7 the authorities said th would have
no law for this" ;_ _,-1., .-_.-;,-1;- -;:.,7_ _-.§_
; Then it goes :-- ?":' $53: 1' e-.=.;"
Could not they have found one? - " -
There we have the veiy nub of the "prob-
lent. Could not they-that is, the
authoritieshave found one? -Hitler
would 1 have found -one, cl
Mussolini would have found one. Stalin
had got cine. 2 _ __.;".A_.t'__. ._.§;_.-. _
" In time of war we. too. wereforeed to
nd new measures to control the rights
of the individual. but they were never vay
much liked here, and I do not suppose
lI
Ithat there was any prmuct d era: more
distasteful to those who had to operate
them or to the general public than the
powers under R¢Ql.Il3li0_l8B.- "In recent
years. however. the question of treachery,will. lyhope. convince the House that
-existing lawor everything that we can
tiiiiia legal power to There ii_
an ,'...;it""; -elm **'Et? .i'=l';t"i,-;5,';*tare the holders 0! our nationiil secrets. A_"1'W"-7 '
Perhaps even more secrets are in the ._,,,.=-.1.».hands-Of large sections 0! industry and 1
-OI the scientic worldsu.-.'.~r ,_1.l"*-" r rr.-j_ ,
- With this extension of the problem so -
are brought face to face with the funda- '
mental question of liberty. How can the
interests oi security be maintained with-
out damage to our traditional liberties? ..
At what point do reasonable and neces-_~ ~.-- a
,.- -4
aary security measures become the repu - ---~.~. =-nant attributes of the police State? fit
short. how do we. in modern times,"
ach_ieve good security in a democratic -
Quay? _ ,.._ 1 ;_ it ii.t7l l.i.1=- '."=a:iir.'_""
- The review which I have given of the
securit measures talten in recent years
everything that it is possible to do under
seehas been done to protect us against
treason and subversion b Government "2""servants, or by others. who have secret
material. To the extent that securitypractices can be improved under existingaws every effort has been made to achieve
it. _and_ I believe that these _meas_ures
make the recurrence of an alt:-ii: such as
this exceedingly irnprobable-I do not saythat they_ make it i.IllPOSSl.bl_C-.L.- ;.;":. '.y
I repeahowever. that these measures
do not. and in my view cannot. go beyond
the letter and the spirit of the law. At
any rate. before the limitations of the
existing law were relaxed, were it no
more than this. I think that Parliamentwould have to weigh vrdy carefully the
balance of advantage a disadvantage,
for it would. indeed. be a tragedy if II:
destroyed our freedom in the eiiort U
preserve it. _'_tr;:'.'..*..-. an-_ 11,. -_ . "1/.,-Ii
Mr. Herbert Morrison Tbewishain.South!: Mr. Deputy-Slpealier, before -I with my speec , perhaps I magpermitted to stray beyond the boun
of order for I few moments to refer "tothe deeply regretted death of my r-i£l:,_ .
-hon. Friend William Whiteley. Meme...
[or Blaydon. He was respected in all
quarters of the House. [I-loit. Mrstiii:Ls:_
Hear.-hear. ] -He was a "very ne
Member of Parliamen a man of the most ' 1.-_.r|y--.- -.-.-v--
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_ __ ~ _ . . .IS I I Former Jen"! igtt Oee
. [Mn Monntsotn] -_- =1;- =.-! =-'- -- ~
servant not only to his party. but a manwho also had a sense of duty to the House
"as a whole. including the Opposition. We
all deplore his assing. {lion MEMBERS:"Hm hw-"lp,. . 5:--. - .=We have heard tt very able, full and
-competent speech by t e Secretary of
State ior Foreign Aiiairs. and I am sure
"that the House as a whole is thankful
to him for the information which he has
given this afternoon. I think the Gov-
ernment were right themselves to take
the initiative in offering a debate on this
matter, and that it is right that a debate
should take place. it will probably be
rather less exciting than one felt that it
might be when the Government
announced it. The atmosphere has
somewhat cooicd down. We are gratefulto the riht hon. Gentleman for his speech,
althoug I must say that while I agree
with the great bulk of it--as will be
apparent in the course of my observa-
tions-I am not quite as satised as he is
with things as they are.
This is not a any political matter.We are eoncernedp with the problem of
Government and administration. and I
hope that it will be handled as such
throughout the debate. We, in our coun-try. have a very great Civil Service. ofw ich we can be roud. I do not thinkthat there is any getter in the world. I
agree that the Civil Service of the Foreign
Otce is aiso one which does credit tothe countrg, both at home and abroad.It is true t at. new and again. a tradition
of earlier policies and earlier biases is to
be found in the Foreign Otce. and it is
necessary for the Secretary of State totsh hard to get it altered. The Foreignrvtee ts a very good one. Having had.
for a short period. contact with other
foreign services I am inclined to say that
I know of none better than ours; But-
ihere is aiways a temptation for a Minister, , , ~.,_._---r.- .~. ', 3 P 7" -_ ' iv-f 1, ",5-_- 1 a -_ ._ -,»"_,' 3.-J-.y L-. '._i' "',' " " -sal4na_" ""-" ""' "L" J. . . l,-,,§l-tt_t.'¢:./I-alt-15-I-HIi¥i' l " ____ " _ ---u-rs;-ac. -- ------' " - "'i". ' -_- - ,7, .'. 4 _..______, 5.0....- --._....-. . -. . g
. _ I Q b, ..,.. '1 _'. ~ :" .'. s - Q - I"'-_.»_" s " ,.. ,,- . ...-.,. - A. .~. ._.'-:;. é-.. _.r . -1'.-4.-..r~'.-are--"P"-='-' '
V . ' ". " '92 - Q1 novmnntt toss 0il'irh1I1b7»¢PP¢¢'¢9¢ tin
Home Department and Minister d Hots,-Security. I had a great deal to do vithe Secret Services or. at least, had L gong
deal of knowledge from them mtalthough I was not in charge of them.watched their work. Compared with G1secret services in Nazi Germany ours weeminently superior. Idid not think millof the hazi Secret i thougitet,
great deal of our own. In the beginnia!
iof the war. they were. rha I littliireckless in their &>tat;=tl ;mt;':t'.=nt.sometimes saw mmunist.s-and eve
Fascists--where they did not fully
but _my experience was that they improvatS on. 1 '_ V J. T_ 1??-if';IfA.".5s
I agree with the Foreign Secretary thewe all feel that this incident of Burgea
a_nd_h_tacIean_is a disgrace to our eountrr.s
with him. I know that the Foreign Oit':'
t.he Foreign Service as a whole4d
that it was a disgrace and a retlectios
upon the _Service. It was also an onhappy incident for the Security Servitiel
We are all sad emu: it: us: is we wen;sad about the case of Fuchs, of Dr. Nuns
May. and of Pontecorvo. cases tvhi:lt
were. if anything. more serious even than
these cases, and which might have a
greater _e_tIect upon the future peace dthe world even though they did not rai:
so much excitement.- -_-;_-_ ; ,-.-..,-,',t,~,.=i., .. F
However. we have to keep a sense dz
proportion about these things. ; II. I! ._
remember the number of men employed
In our public services. the number d_.cases of this kind are very limited. That
does not mean that we should under-estimate them. nor that we should not_be;
worried about them. Each is a worrying
incident. but have marred in this
way before. After all. the noblest band
of men in history had their Judas. He
sutiered. and I think that these men will
sucr. in one way or another, in dus-oourse. ;' " , -'=,' ""' " + - =---'-== r;?=.". 2%
The' existence of Commttntsrti'Land .4-an
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reads the Communist daily newspaper.
or reads the periodicals or other informa-
tion coming ones way. one cannot help
but feel that they have not the slightest
tfceling of obligation or loyalty to the
United Kingdom-that their loyalty is to
ianotheroountry. -~'-- -- iv r'--- . -
l 1 reserve the right to disagree with-my own country if I think that my own
country is wrong in a given wurse oi
Ipolicy. I reserve the right to agree with!other countries if I thinlc that they are
;right, but I am always very suspicious of
anybody. whether I Government servant
tor somebody else, who p¢|'Si§lC|'lily ex- pounds the view that our country is
always wrong. and the Communist
countries are always right. There is
wrncthing wrong with that, and it giv. an.i5i3 Former Feign Odie: 7 NOVEMBER I955 Oicialr-'-rpisnppemnhu Hill
wrong in this fashion they are, if anything,
worse than other people»-[llots. MEM-
Ltttsz Qh."]it is so. They begin by
revolting against their families and they
nish up by secretly revolting against the
State. That is rather curious. What I
have said about the Communists is
equally true about the Fascists. - _
Mr. C. Pannellt Perhaps my right
Friend will address himself to--the
point to which the Secretary of State
did not address himself, namely that,
g_enera_l_'ly speaking. thi_s_ tallg about
the liberty of the subject has not
been applied cireumspectly to mens-bers of the working-classes; the Ministry
of Supply screened. and effectively
screened. persons. including members sl
my union. on the slenderest suspicion, and
that. broadly speaking. the tests of ther
fr _-..----
eu -.--~
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r rise to legitimate suspicion. 3- y.__,; __
It is sometimes said that Communism
is a religion. I do not thinlt that is fairForeign Ofce were not equitably inicted
tipon the working classes. _ 3 - .. r - In -sI '._._ ..
to religion. I think that in some waysit is e disease. in fact. my right hon.
|' Friend the Member for Ebbw Vale Mr.
, Bevan!. some years ago. very rightly said,i :'Tbc Communist party is not a party;- it is an organised conspiracy . There
is 1 great deal oftruth in that;-_j : . .
U Mr. Ernrys Bughes.'tSouth Ayrshire!: We say that about the Tories. - L
Mr. Morrison: If I
something to quote to
; Friend. I would do so, but _I havenotgot such a quotation ready. ;'_"__
i Nevertheless. there are some Corn-
rnunists who are innocent, sincere but
deceived._ It is the ease that in the
Security Service we are up against a new
problem. Formerly. a man who was s
national of another country was hired as
s spy. or even a national of ones own
country was hired as a spytnat was
the game. and they were often very brave
men. But the new situation of a. volun-
tary act of service in theinterests of a
foreign power against ones own countryis a very serious matter for security in
all sorts of ivays._..-.»-.-.i 1».-.--veers aid--..
Let no one thinlr that this aspect is con-
ned to the working classes: I do not
think that anyone does think so. in fact,
the cases with which we are concerned are
not of that character. There have beensome Wbfitln-Class cases, but the funnything aboutt e middle and upper classes,
the well-to-do class. is that it they gocould think ct
please my hon.
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pens at university is not
;_-9:, __:s.. __. . 1 -..__.'a-r.._a~ _:_*;:-ft"-_,,..--. P! J 3| ; .. ..;_-vMr. Morrison : I thtnlt that there may
be some truth in what my Fticli
says I was Minister of Supply Ior_a
few months. Some workmen were tits-
missed before my arrival. I had com-
laints from a Labour Member of Par-liament, the late Arthur Ienltins. about
it. and i went into it and came to_ the
conclusion that they had been dismissed
on inadequate information and on _it|-'
adequate grounds. Therelbre. I think
there is, or that there was It any rate.
some truth in what my hon. Friend sayseY-I agree that it would h_wm&m
assume that because I man is I tn-
munist or a Fascist at university he must
be necessarily guilty for lif_e. Q1! sorts of
things happen among university undes-aduates. I never studied at a universiz:Fain a product of the elemental!; schoo
and 1 am not ashamed of the ct. But
all sorts ot things happen at the-uni-a- -
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versiiies. Abnormal ideas are evolved,
and. i-.~4"eed. sorncti% university students ' .'=e.. . . .are encouraged to evolve them because "" _
they are thought to be good for the W"
gouihfus -fat";-"=8 Ii . -ti",a-J I.-:1.-.3-.1 .5
. There was. for example. _the motion
tarried at the Dxlord Umverstty ff_ 'I " . Society that they would not ght for their4'-.
King and country. and many people were s-*7---
understandably shocked about st. But
the House may be sure that three-
quarters. and may be more. of those
young men did fight for their King and
coun when war came. So what hap-
conclusive either
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[MIL MORllSON.] ""_ ' -
way. if we were to ialte ii as oonciusive
that because a man was a Communist
or a Fascist in his university lite. he must.therefore. be permanently held under sus-picion as like y to betray secrets of State.
think that we should be degenerating
into McCarthyism, because that was
exactly what McCarthyism was-a prob-
ing bacli and the assumption that it there
had been such a relationship the tnan
must be held to be guilty. : '--- t'
The Gilt! OI Ill IIICSC IIICIGCIIIS SIG
revealed in the White Paper. and ve
Got'c_rnmcnts in all were involvedthe
pre-war Conservative Government. the
Coalition Government. two Labour Gov-
ernments and the present Government.
Tlierefore. we are all in it. Five Gov-
ernments have been concerned with these
two men. and I feel that we must all
do our best to help the House. but we
must have due regard to security in the
"rocess. I will tell the House what Iiinow about this matter during the short
period that I held otlioe as Secretary of
State for Foreign Aairs. ; i -~
So far as I can recall. I never met,
Mr. Burgess. I met Mr. Maclean only
once. and that was at a social gathering.
which bears out the point that his otlice
as Head ot the American Department was
not of the kind which would bring him
into [requent contact with the Secretary
of State. I wiii ieii what i itnow. its
I say. ve Governments were involved.
as well as a number of Ministers at the
Foreign Oice. Unfortunately. two of the
Ministers who were at the Foreign Ofoe
during part of the time-Mr. Bevin and
Mr. McNeil-have died. Nothing I shall
say should be taken as criticism ot them
-they are not here to answer for them-
selvesbut I may have to refer to
matters which occurred during their____g__g _; _q:,__ _,. i-L.-.... -Ln. .._-..-. 140PCTIUU Ul. IJIIIUC.
I will tell the story of my own part in
this matter. In the middle of April. 1951.
I was verbally informed, in general terms.i
1
i.iii: Form-er rgfnii. an; 3.5 nioviztviuiéit isssm -151-
that anybody k the highe'
reaches of ihe Foreign Ghioe who wer
responsible in this matter would tor on
moment have sought to protect any etheir colleagues tron: a charge c
espionage. am quite sure that the_'
would not. and that would be an ltnjllt
suspicion. -'1-;"1 1* .'*:'2-"' *1? '
At a later date. ls outlined In th.
White Paper. Maclcan became the prin
cipal suspect. and as a conse uence sons-;tap-secret papers were wilhheiid [tom him
inai was a decision which, no doubt
occasioned some difficulty because i
might arouse suspicion. On the oiliewill thinlr
hand. it the papers had continued to biStJpt>lietI_ to him. it would have laid lh:
aut orines open to great criticism in dui
course it trouble arose. In all thesi
matters we have to remember this
dilemma of the security authorities. Apan
from the small security branch of th:_Foreigrt Oloe. the wider security author}
ties. o. course were responsible to the
Prime Minister and not to the depart-
mental Ministers. which is quite right.'I'he evidence against these men at the
material times rig t up to their departure
was insulficient to warrant decisive actionon charges of espionage. It they had
been arrested an ultimately found in-
nocent, that would have brought discredit
both on the Foreign Oice and the
Security Service. and charges of goodness
knows what would have been made. The
evidence was insufficient. It could not
justify arrest. and further evidence was
needed in order to justify etlective action
There was another reason why precipia
tate action could not very well be taken.
That was that one of the most valuable
things to do in counter-espionage is not
only to nd out the man or the men who
are responsible for espionage but to nd
out their contacts and the Channel!
through which they not and from when
t
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511 Former foreign Odt .1 NOVEMBER 195$ Uitinlr, isppelrltl II
is well known-for the polieé even to ---u.I.'A itizens. There was the case
urhop. who wanted to attend 1 scientic}:0nlercnce on the Continent. and his pars-
port was withheld. Mv main oestion 5.5.why were the ports ndt alerted? ' -
Mr. Morrison ' That is a perfectlylegitimate point to raise. I am inclinedtto think t at they oufht to have been
alerted, but. having sui it. I do not ltnowlwhat one would have done effectively if
they had been alerted. There is this to
be said. ol course. that it would have beenvery useful to have ltnown immediatelyif t ey had gone and by what route. They
might have been followed. Therefore. I3
l
l
ithinl. that m hon Friend has r X _ ' _ y _ _. aired a
fatr point oi criticism.-»-"-'=--"-" 1 +
I With regard to the withdrawal cigars-"_ ports. I do not think that can be one.
Of course, in war we did all sorts of thingst--1 had a hand in them... -_. .;_-.
1
P
lMr. H. Macmillan: The law about
passports is very complicated. I think it
. ts possible to refuse a passport. I donot think it is possible eilectively to
withdraw a passport. ln law the ss-Rprt. it is quite true. is the property oiet
t ajesty. and the person who holds the
t passport does so as a lrind of tenant. but
; the only way in which one could eftec»! ttvely_get a passport back would be by. Ipplymg to the court. and thereforeI evidence would be required to prove tothe court why the passport oug t to bewithdrawn. Therefore. it cannot ewtivelybe_ withdrawnertcept lag the kind ofev:ids;nce:: which would i reglalrdgd assa a o enoug tnsupportte -w==t.-3=r=¢- ..
' Mr. Morrison 2 There would have had
to be IOme sort of charge, some sort ti
evidence given. in which case one is in 0
diletnrna. Undoubtedly it was done in
war-time. -On the spur of the moment I
cannot deal with the ooint rai hv Q}!' hon. Friend the Member for East lam.
F0531 Mr. Dainei!. but undoubtedly -it
was done in war-time, when there used
to be it delightful area of doubt at to who
was most res nsible for the s andvisa busine-sspo-the Home the
F°"=1BI1 Secretary. We got on as best wecould. Nevertheless. there is something inwhat my hon. Friend lays. -' __.__.__' ;'.- ;
t It is important that the contacts should
; oe touched and the networir of espionage
; uncovered. I would remind the House
_ that it it not unusualand I think this
or ricer - ----- I
_ L ». p _ _ ~ _, V _~_ __ _'_ "P' '§?'~"l!"- . . . - . k. > 4 ' . . ~- ' "' . 1 * ,. e~-_c .---_-.,~"' _- 7- ,_ _T
J 1.~;[email protected]="."e¢.".:¢=s.'@:<i=-~..:; .leave at liberty a known criminal against
whom they have got complete evidence
and against whom they would t:ndouht=_edly secure a conviction. Sometimes the "
po ice leave him at liberty for a time inorder to nd his contacts and to spreadrthe net rather wider. That is what hap-
pened in April, I951. . ..-...
The rst minute that I received on this
matter from the ollieers of the Depart-
ment was on 25th May. 19$]. On the
same day the Security Services reported
to the fringe Minister as their political
chief. On that day I authorised the ques-tioning of Maclean. The Security Servicestook the View that they must c oose the
right time for that questioning, tor thereasons which I have iiven. and which
are outlined in paragrap I0 of the White
Paper, and to secure further evidence? i
In the light of the Maclean aiid-Burghesl¢<-
an
-4.. .
experience, l set up the committee of in- ~ ' -
qutry to which the Foreign Secretary has r
referred. and l was grateful to the re-
bers of that committee for the work they
did, though they reported alter I had
ceased to be Foreign Secretary. They
reported to my successor in l92ovetnher, .1
I95] and. as we have heard. further
security checks were recommended. and
according to the White Paper they have -
been Put into effect. -r---" .' "."'""-"Y " _ -_-.,.,-.- -* a,
It has been asked why Burgess was on
leave. Burgess was not exact!" on leave;He was in substance suspended with a
view either to his resignation or dismissal
after he had been heard by a disciplinary
board. It was during this period that he
disappeared. But I will return to the
menrs of these two gentlemenif that it
the right word--later. -.-.-+- _'__'-'j-;'.__- r-_
I must say in justice that the "case of
Burgess-that is to say. of his troubles
in Washingtom-was not raised with me
as it was hoped he would resign. It wouldt
have come to me alter the disciplinary-=
board had heard him. I think I ought to
have been told earlier about the troubles
of Mr. Burgessjn Washington, and I ant =
inclined to take the view that alter he hadbeen heard by the disciplinary_ boarditi '
should have dismissed him. urther. it
must not be forgotten that even then 1t
would not have prevented him from
escaping !.ron.1 this woolly. '.;t._;.-:._.=;lHee .-.b'
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; tn. Dllnelt st hon. Friend said iimoment ago that he set up n committee
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.. -P .. . .. - . . . . 1. _ ,_ , _ -.-0-4'-4-.47 . 4.- _'an4L1-.4 ..-..:.-.z---.-?ti-l>.alI92Iu --~t---Ho--ti--u-"'3"" " " .. ~ . . .. _ _., §-'~tIw*- ' '_- - -;-;_'7 '__. _ l _ z;lSl9 Former FLJ Odie: 1 NOVEMBER I955 9¢'l"l ~e"PPs¢'l'lN I53
[hltt. l!atmzs.I ' ' " r '
of tnqutry just alter he heard of the
M_aclean allaig. LllUN.FMl;Md|s£ltS: Ndo."] Vs at my rig t on. rien conveye to'tne was that -he was cognisant of the
Maclean case only just be ore the setting
up of the committee of inquiry. Clause
l0 of the White Paper says:
"In January. I9-I9, the security authoritiesreceived a report that certain Foreign Offiee
information had lealted to the Soviet autho-rities some years earlier. 1 _
was my right hon. Friend. as Foreign
Secretary, informed of that by his heads
of departments. or by the security
Services? . .- - " '
Mr. Morrison: I said I was informed
in general terms about certain problemswhich had arisen in the middle of April.
l95l. To the best of my recollection
that was the rst time. I do not know.
oi course. what had been conveyed to
earlier Foreign Secretaries. My hon.
Friend has misunderstood what 1 Said
about the inquiry. lt was not into the
case of Burgess and ivlaclean specically
but into the question of whether the in-
ternal arrangements affecting securitywere adequate. it was a useful inquiry.
which I think did useful work. -
I come to the record of these two men
and my reasons for thinking that there
is ground for some unhappiness about the
way in which they were treated. Maclean
was guilty of disgraceful conduct in
Cairo in i959. Apparently he get drunlti
got out of hand, went to a party in e
tlat and proceeded to smash the place
up. I do not think that overstrain and
drunkenness are adequate explanationsor, if they are. that they are adequate
excuses for conduct of t at sort on theFart of an important ofcer of the
oreign Ofce serving abroad., . -._ ',
Both men were Communists at Cam-
bridge. and I have dealt with_ that point.
The White Paper says both of them were
cured when they left the university.
Whether that was so or not we cannot
now be quite sure. The Wltite Paper
assumes that because Burgess joined the
Anglo-German Club that ts evidenced to
the elieet that he was cured. I am speak-
ing from memory. but my recollection is
that the -Anglo-German Club about
1935-36 was a body under some suspicion
as being under Nazi inuence. - » .
hill. Hugh Dalton Bishop AlJCklD l!i
ll stanlt Willi Nllii. 1: _....1 '1. 2'".'.;'
ll C 86Mr. Morrison: My right hon. Frieod.ibeing more proletartan in his language!
-than I am. and having had a university I
education, says it stank with Nazis, and i
I am prepared to accept that. lt is M Idefence of Bur ess. in any event, that he ¬slid from the éommunists to the Anglo-'
German Club. - t - ' - - "
I _ H. I .. pp ;_-new fty 7-1:4: 7:1 .
It is recorded in the White Paper. and
has been stated by the Secretary of State, "
that _early in 1950 Burgess was reported
for tndiscreet talk about secret matters
in the later part of I949. For that. after
a hearing by a disciplinary board. be was 1
severely reprimanded. l.ater~but this
was not until I950 or I951, I lm I08
quite sure which--there were oornplaints
as to his wort: Ind behaviour atWashington. The State Department.
complained about is reckless motor driv-ing, and he was careless with condential lpapers. That situation was dealt with
and he was brought home and was due
for either resignation or dismissal In
my judgment. in the ease of Tiurgess also.
in view of careless talk about secret
matters in l949. I severe reprimand wasnot flood enough. I think that in both
of I ese cases they should. for those
offences, have been dismissed... ,1.-_ - --; a
I do not like to say this but I feel I
must say it. It is not a peculiarity at
the Foreign Otiice for it runs through the
Civil Service. and the motives are, I
think. in many ways meritorious. it is
not a matter to be recklessly condemned. E
I think that in the Civil Service es e
whole--whether it is more so in the
Foreign Ofce l do not know--there is a
tendency, it an oicer falls down on his
job or is guilty of an ollence which is
somewhat serious. to say, He is In old
colleague. Can we not do something
about it to prevent him from being
.'°d7.'i'...-: ¥'ll'¢I'--a}=§ .-...-'-' t=' sir _t'r-us:
Often what hay-pens is that he may be
transferred to ot er work. [HoN. Mut-
netts: Promoted. ] 1 would not say
promoted, for that is perhaps going
rather far. but one never knows. He
may be transferred to another State
Department, and new State Department!are particularly likely to get such men.Or he may be rebuked. think that I
little saclrtng now and again would not
do any hartn. It would do some ham
to the men concerned but it might do I
lot of good to the rest of the Service. n'
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iszi " Fo' 1Q'¬~92.¢i-B OQ 1 NOVEMBER]!!! Odwjlrpgta tszt
I think that in the Evil Service
generally. and to some_extent in local
government--whether it ts more so in the
Foreign Ollice I do not l<now-there is
a tendancy generally to help colleagues
out of trouble. in some cases that is
right but in some cases the colleagues
ought to be Iclt in trouble and ought to
be fired. But do not let the House think'front this that there is any legitimate
fcharge against the Civil &ri-ace that they
would seek to protect s man who had
.=b¢en guilty of espionage against his
t:Ol.tn|.|!'. _-___,; ,_ ,,,._._ e.a- eel»-u~-InI
1
The next question l aslc myself is this:
was Marleen-~and therefore Burgess=Q a I 0tipped oil. as the saying ts! Or was iti the cut in condential papers which
warned hint? I am inclined to think
that he was tipped oil by somebody. It
so. 1 wish we could nd the sotttcbfy.
1 am inclined to think that these men
were tipped on. Certainly it was a
remarkable coincidence that l should have
given that order on 25th May and they
were missing on the night of 25th May.
I have received I Icltet from I
respected friend of rnine whose Judgment
of men and affairs I respect. He asks
me not to give his name. although it is
available to the Foreign Ollice it they
want it and if it is any use to them He
does not want to be pursued with pub-
licity in this matter because it is not very
nice. This is what he says: _
I was very interested to read your remarks
about Maclean and Burgess the other day
because I know them both and actually lunchcd
with Maclean the day before he disappeared.The point I wanted to mention to you was
that on that day I am sure that he had nointention of leaving England in the way hedid. He spoke to me so normally cl l-is |'i"s|i"iii_ affairs, his wile: connement and his plansfor the immediate future that I am connnoodhe was not then intending to leave Ihg eounu-y,i
Q This malres me feel that sub ucrtt to meetingme on Zltb May he ruzeit-fa some warning
1 lit 3: '" ".""" t":P:i?'= tat Marl: P PIIIIII III! in I -_-._ .- I_ _ . . "1- wvultq, lug u N
lilET¬l0f¢, til lomeone in the Foreign Ofoetold him on zsth Ma that you had authorised
, lore his departure. I am inclined to think
i 92 ha § I115 WU lld|J].IIl. '0 --- tt on . t
l.hitnlobequestionez."I '_ _ -_
* 0! course, it was not only the Foreign
_Oioe who ltnety. for the Security Service
ttnew as well. I read that letter for what
it is worth as the impression of a man
who lunched with Maclean that day be-
that lvlaclean was tipped o by somebody
l.'¥Q: nsinn In I--t-an-._
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. -r ,_,;.-.12.. to -t---r -rt"lWe are much obliged to the Foreign
Secretary for telling us about Philby.
there are denite statements that the
family are missing and no doubt if it
should become of signicance the righthon. Gentleman will be good enough so
inform the House. -~j -- - '
I come to my conclusions. l lhittit that
any wild or extreme criticism of theForeign Service would be unfair and
would be wrong. I have met i large
number of the members of the Service;
as have other hon. Members tvithout
experience of Ministerial oiee. in other
countries. It is clear that the Secretaryof State must be the master ol Deg;-gt
tttent. irrespective of what his political
opinions may be, but the latest reformswere made as recently as war-time._i_*,,
There have. of course. been rough:three states in the history of t-he Brtt'.._Foreign §ervice. There was the old days,
when aristocratic gentlemen became
ambassadors without any pay at all. Then
there was the tater period when competi-
tive recruitment had developed in part
but not to its present standari. Then
there were the relorms initiated by the
present Prime Minister and. as has been
said: largely carried out by Mr. Ernest
5¢""1- .rai- It c- t no , l'I"1:;f.i rs v-.r'/.~..'M
The second stage of Foreign Dtiioi
people have survived and their ideas are
not quite the same as those of the post-1
war. reformed recruitment. There are
survival: but time will solve that prob-1
iertt. and it ispassing. They are largely
university men-all of them I suppose in
the higher reaches. That is true of the
home Civil Service as well. Whether it
is necessary that there should be such a
high proportion of university people 1 do
not know. Whether the products at
primary and secondary education could
get through l do not know. -Many people
who are now getting to the universities
started their education in primary schools;
'll'l£j £5 through by ocicates and com-. - .;"-. $7, ~.'... A...i-,q¢ §a"V ' ""', - a ... ilriii-I -"~ -
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oreign Service. so tar as l know. is sub-i
stantially the same in principle as recruit-'
ment to the home Departments. that h
to say it is all through the Civil Servicei":.'1' i;.~;
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[ML Mort|tts0N.] - .
i The question I want to submit for the
consideration of the Prime Minister and
the Go92ernment-l was involved in
earlier arguments about itis based on
the fact that the Foreign Service is
separate from the home Civil Service. It
is separately recruited, it maintains its
own life and. I think my right hon. Friend
the Member for Bishop Auckland Mr.
Dalton! will agree. it is not as much sub-Lect to Treasury co-ordination as is theome Civil Service [Imerrup!r'on.] My
right hon. Friend thinks it is much thesame. The Tint I want to raise is
whether it is rig t that the Foreign Service
should be entirely separate from the home
Civil Service? -1 '-'-7-- ~--1----'-
ln the liome Civil Service there are trans-
fers between one Department and another.
It is a very good thing that there should
be transfers between Department and De-
partment. That gives men a varied ex-
perience. and their knowledge becomes
richer and more varied in knowledge. I
readily concede the point that we must
have a substantial proportion of Foreign
Otlice people who are to be in the Foreign
Ollice for life. There ls some dilution
now, however. in respect of the labour
attaches, who are recruited through the
Ministry of Labour, but I atn not at all
sure that it would not be a good thing
for men from other home Departments to
be transferred to the Foreign Oice and
for men from the Foreign Ollice to be
transferred to home Departmentsin orda
that they might get a wider variety of es-
perience through the collective experiencegcf the Foreign Olliee and the home Civil
mce. - . .- - _ ____
I suggest to the Government that in
these circumstances. and in the light d
these unhappy and beastly incidents. there
is a ease for an inquiry. I still think. 'm
view of public apprehension, or even mis-
understanding, that there should be an
inquiry into recruitment to and promotion
in the Foreign Otlice and into the ad-ministration of the Foreign Oice. That
should include the prob em of the verySuch an lnqgtg would do no harm <
if the Foreign ce emerged well out oi
such an inquiry that would be for
good of the Foreign Ollice. an
were improvements to bewould be for the good of
That task could be one by a
mittee or some other suitable body.
r time the Foreign Secrets ti wrongin resisting any inquiry into lbat mattabecause we should remember the hes burden on the Foreign Secretary. It 2;
almost impossible for him to devote the.
attention to administrative details and;
personal questions in the Departrnetl
which is possible for a Minister tn charger
of a home Department. The Department.
knows that. with the consequence that i-
is quite possible for the Department nta
to take to the Secretary of State or one;
of the other Ministers matters which in a
home Department would be talten to the _S
Minister. That is not because the Depart-
ment is trying to dodge the Minister. bin
because it knows that the Secretary d
State ts so heavily burdened that it must
chance its arm" a bit. I think these
matters need loolcing into. Otherwise we
shall have trouble over the health d:
future Foreign Secretaries. as we have
lanes. --_ .._=._.._~_ 5.11 1.. . .
Secondly. there is a case for looking
into security. partl in the tight of thecircumstances of the Burgess and Mac-
lean case. and partly in order to be
satised that the Security Services aregood. Here we are dealing with a dil-
erent story altogether. It is much moreditlicult to have an iniquity into the
security services. It clea y cannot be a
ublic inquiry; that would be ridiculous.blur can ll be an inquiry with a public
report: that. I lhinlt. is out 0| the ques-'lion. We cannot expose IO the public
view the security mac ine of our own or
other countries. We cannot risk a divulg-
ing of the secrets either of espionage G
counter-espionage. On that matter there
should be investigation by a judge orhad over the health _of past Foreign Secre- 7
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4..- .,__.___. _..-e.- - .4-s_a In----gs.-glam-ll»i-"sis-L-'-1HFIl'~~d-'55-- I J;-5-"":"3534"'-:'*"" i t| - r -3,! ' 4 ' '- "-..".i.-' '--Ir
$25 Former Igtasignl Oitl
i Privy Councillors. representing bothFiles of the House. and with experience
ahich makes them specially qualied in
these matters -but inquiry there must he.
We are up against a new problem in these
atters. The country will not be satis-ed without an inquiry of some sort.
';ovei-ing an adequate field, for our coun-
ry has a right to know that adequate
action is being taken arising out of an
utperience which is disturbing and worry-
ngto us all. . . .I.. . .... '2 .._15.27 A "
Colonel Alan Go - can Per!!!
and East Perthshire!: two speeches
to which we have listened this afternoonwill undoubtedly] haye impressed the-House. Althoug we may not agree with_kveI'}'thing that has been said. l think it
:most deslilrahieh tart tneh dchaieb shouldpen wit soc oroug speec es. -oneliarom each side. - = --. .
I It secnasto me that there are three main
;issucs before us. The rst I do not think
has been mcntiori so far in Parliament
ior in the Press. but it may be a vita!
{link in the whole story. or mystery. What
; connection is there between Guy Burgess
land Dr. Otto John. the West German
|security chief. who defectedzto the Com-
munists in I954? Otto John was chief
legal adviser to Lufthansa before the war
and became a member of the Canaris
Group. which plotted the death of Hitler.
When that went wrong his brother was
= executed by the Gestapo and he escaped
l through Spain and came to London about| the end of I944. In the last months ofl ear he worked {or the B B C LaterI' .
thaty ' . . ..
he was employed in the Foreign Oioe
and ~af1et-wards by a London law rm.
He returned to Germany in I949 and was
appointed president of the Federal Oioe
for the Protection of the Constitution"-
whieh is a high falutin' way of saying. the
g security machine-watching and reporting
| on neo-hiaii activities. Tnat appointment
was made with the consent of the British
and American Govern:nent.s.'. .. . . 5
_ "Is it a fact-my information is that it
ls in the B.B.C. offices and. later. in the
Foreign 0liiwthat were is irlorrnatiort
to the eect that Otto John was a close
associate of Guy Burgess? I hope that
my right hon. Friend _will answer that. ifhe can. when he replies. They certainly
had_all too much in common outside their
public outies.- ' ' - - . --
si c as 'or NOVEMBER toss 0'i¢l'oIs"-epappeorontit tszst
' @-As head 0! the counter-Communist
intelligence in Bonn. John would have
received information from British and
United States sources. it is itnowrt ihii
he was in touch with a number of what
might be called double agents. agents
working each way. Did Otto John main-
tain his contact with Burgess? II he did.
he could have been very useful indeed to
him and Maclean. and possibly also to
Mrs. Maclean. I believe that the Govern-
ment have the information that can"
answer this question. and I hope that -if
possible, if security will permit. somethingmay be said on that point. - '== -=»'=--
'l'hc second vital issue aects the inter}
nal administration of the Foreign Oiee,
to which both right hon. Gentlemen who
have spoken have already referred in
some derail. l should like to say straight-
away that I have not the slightest reec-
tion to malce on any of the right hon.
Gentlemen who have held the important
and diicult ollice of Secretary of State
Ior Foreign Affairs. In spite of anything
that_I may say. I_ hope that that is fully
F¢3|l5°d.- :26 aft 1 =-ii '.1'J"-"1?-i". .'.';'.:rI}."
' The I- ighting Services have a system d
regular condential reports on ollicers.
They are made annually-in the Navy. Ilbelieve. it is sometimes six-monthly-B
and they give their seniors a clear picture
not only of their ability. but also of their
moral character and behaviour; and that
The Foreign. Oicefl hnderstand.
a similar system of reports. I aslted my
right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary
in two "Questions the other day if he
would plea in the Library a copy KL!
these l'orms,'which he very kindly did.But I also asked what arrariglcmeutsexistedin his Department tor e sub-mission of condential reports on pet'-
sounel. Onbehall oi the_ oreign Secre-tary.'my'ng'rit' hon. Friend inc loin;
_Under-Secretary replied}: _'~__*'_j'-'-.: _'*_-'1!!
- "The time of Foreipi Service matstaiiabroad and of departments in the ForeignOffice re rt regular y on their stas onlgrintedforms which vary lot each branch of e_Se.r-
viee....Ar rtoneschmemberottssesenior brand: om: Service is sent in aflead
every two years. For new entrants so e
branch reports are submitted every sis month
duri the period of probation. Reports GIall :ther branches are sent in at least once 0
ycl.|'."'--[OfFlCI_A_L Rn-oar, 26th October, 1955:Vol. 545. s-33.] -. .. - - . ._.lr.'-"' e-_;I .- |-J57 -~
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.s¢T92"i°5- " "'" '1_' ?.;".;._'.:'
Lieut.-Colonel Marcus Lipton Britt-
ton!: Was the hon. and gallant Member
told how or on what date the forms to
which he has referred were introduced?
Colonel Gomme-Duncan: No. I was
not; ldid not ask Ior that. I asked what
the system was at the moment. I agree
with the hon. and gallant Member that
the date is of some importance in this
,' 3. .' ,. ___ .,._,.,,~-1.»,-.'..92 . 1 ...
From that reply given by my right hon.
Friend the Under-Secretary arise ques-
tions of great importance. questions that
must be answered by the Government ifthat will do so. Who reported on Burgess
an Maclean, and what was written about
them? There are these different forms,
particularly the one which is called I-'-.2
and which deals with Branch A and the
rst tour grades of Branch B in the
Foreign Service. That one has a section
which calls for reliability reports. of con-
tact with foreigners reports and social
behaviour reports. and at the end a larges ace is left for a detailed pen picture--tgat is the actual 92vordingo t e oilicet
-reported upon. .. .. .;..-,. .--,._-.
The reporting on oieers of any branch
of Service. including the Foreign Oiee,
is a most distasteful job for the senior
otlicer who has to do it. That makes it
all the more important that there must
be a man of moral courage to say what is
correct. In the Fighting Services. the
ollicer-reported upon has to sign the re-
port himself, but as tar as 1 can inalte
but from the Foreign Ollice forms. the
otficer reported upon does not have tosign. That makes it much easier for the
0 cer malrin the report to be aboslutelyfrank than if he had to show it to the
man. human nature being what it is.
It does away for any excuse for moral
OOW8fdi¢¬.,:'§,.-j,7j7i.7§,'::I'._;;1 55:." -':.*;' 1.. -
Was there a report on Burgess and
Maclean? Was their behaviour, or mis-
behaiiout. recorded. and what was said?
Was this very important item of informa-
tion included: that in I940. I under-
stand. Maclean was associating with the
representative in London of the Tass
Agency? Everybody knows that the Tass
11 c asf _.§-.: in ,*Q I ' =1;-'}=;.c1't:s.l-.é--_. -e - - "92 - Former mt" om .1 NO92'EMBE _. Oicr'a!r-~mlappedrantI' - .1:Q0 toast Gomit: Duncan J ' " J. . s.- ' - U!-0-"0-0-
e , in an coun wheretherel£eenD?n inguir,ya{hasugeen_ proved tote centre iece an es Iona e_Was that iinoivn at the lty reJ_to me that a very great deal depqupon the answer to t at ._
- 1gl¢él'lift{1i$§l::£flS-CS£fI'Ol|l'l aostaternqma e t e er t e "when hi was Prime Minister ll?
I948. He was explainin the proposeot the then Labour .¬0VCfI'll'lI6IIl Ii,
screening State employees. Very brielnot giving the whole details. the
hon. Gentleman said :_ ___,,__, ,,, . .. I have said that there are certain duties tisudt secrecy that the State ii not lustted 2;
employin in connection with them lllylI-hose reriability is in doubt. 4--=t..t'.-.* ' " I
Experience. both in this eountry and eh
where, has shown that membership of. at
other forms of continuing association wiih.,lt
Communist Part ' may involve the acceptan-by the individuaiof a loyalty, which in Mi KCIFCI-l|'|'l§lll'lCC§ can be inimie: to the State. _i
The ght hon. Gentleman went on I
ll]: -F f fa-5'!/0-a:§'-';nrb' $I'_: ,-a_»_*__
" The Government have . . . reached the allelusion that the only prudent course to adis to ensure that no one who is known to
a member of the Communist Party. or to I
associated with it in such a way as to ni
legitimate doubts about his or her rcliabilitydemployed in connection with woi-lathe natllor winch is vital to the security of e State. -
lrrtcru lttzr-oat. Iith March, I948 ;_Vol.4-IG. H034.! ~ ~ . ...t.;' -"" '2'-'"..-e" '
That is I very pru_dent. very oomprehea
sive and very desirable state ol attain
which the right hon. Gentleman deserve
full credit for bringing into eecuw r.
But why was the principle laid down lg
the Prime Minister of that time tllltl It!
carried out. apparently. in the cue tiBurgess and Mactean? Both were knoll
to ave past associations with Con
munists, and white in Paris in 19!
Maclean made no secret of his sympathy
with the Spanish Communist Party. Is
the same year. as has been mentioned hr
the right hon. Member for Levrishstlg
South Mr. H. Morrison!. Burgess undtl-_
went the mysterious conversion into [:I'0- .
Nazism. But both were undoubtedly _{§
employed in connection. with work, oragar: of which is vital to the security ol tit
Both had 'acce§s'tb.'s'ecr? and Y
is known now that Maelean was makiiismicrolms of them for the Russians. Hon Eand why were they exempted from tlli
screening which was supposed to hathbeen applied to all servants gt the St_a_t=_» if
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13 Farrner .FOrt.'t'gtI Oicc 7 NO92'EMBlZR I955 O[ir:r'als-' rsappenrnriee .5.
laid down by the Prime Minister of
at day in l9-18? It is much more im-
ortant to probe_these things than to
ihase individuals in the security depart-
cnt. ' "['11'tCl'¢ is. however. one thing that Par-
anient can and should do, and l think
that this debate will bring it out more
ilearly than bclore_. '[h_ere _should
iuflicicnt nioncy and stall tor the securityservices to do their abs properly. l be-
lieve that they have en starved ol these
things. The worst thing that could hap-pen would be for the Burgess-Maclcan
|iicident~l call ii no more~-to developmo a party wrangle. I see no signs ofhat happening and I am quite convinced
lhat the House would not lower itsell by
doing it on such a vitally importantpiatter lot the country." - '
I Parliament's duty is to ensure that such
2 thing cannot happen again. After all.iii is a truism, but it is quite true to 2?.
'-that what has happened has happen ;
;but that is no reason why those who have
been proved incompetent should be em-
ployed in high oliicc any longer. What
this I-louse wantsand. I believe. the
-country as wellis reassurance and evi-
dence that such things cannot occur again
reasonably. It is no good saying that
something is utterly impossible, but we-want to be reasonably sure that that can-inot happen again. I _*' ""~"--'---- 0 -~-'--is-..-.-..=.=.--_...--;---. .! |...._..-_._._-.....,._l§ii'[~;,i,_
Q J ~ ii6
ii
g
I doubt whether. so long as the men
who were responsible lor security at that
time remain in high positions. the con-
dence of the country will be maintained.
fLet us, however, keep our consideration
got the matter on the high level at which
ii has started. I beg the House with great
humility. lot it is not a matter lot partv
j wrangling. is not a matter of personali-
ties. but a matter of the national interest
| and ol the best possible safeguarding of
i our beloved count.ry.;-.,.-_..-._.,, IL i,._.- ____-_
I ti5'40 my ... t .'.'.1.:.'r..z.;.. 7:__:._;-_:.:e..:.! Mr. R. H. S. Crossman lCovcntry.'
East!: 1 shall try, in saying what I have
I to say. to keep the debate on the high
- level that the hon. and gallant Gentleman
the Member lor Perth and East Perth-
shire Colonel Gomrne-Duncan! has sci
for us back benchers in following those
two excellent speeches from the Front
Bcnchcs. the speech of the Foreign
Secretary and the speech ol my right hon.
Friend the Member for Lewisharri, South Mr. H. Morrison!. - - -'
ti c it
-:5"--"":'s-.-;-;-:_?g?..=,¢--i-----__,,_,,i,
- ---- - .1. . _ -;---3-t-Q;-tn,-1-__ CW :.;"'...* =-= -~+-' -lndccd, as a Labour back bencher who
has from time to time criticised the
Foreign Secretary. and the Prime Minis-
ter. loo. I should like to congratulate the
Foreign Secrcta . lor the second hall tihis speech. whigi dealt with the tremen-
dous problem ol the combination of fron-dom and Iublic security in s world ol
clashing i eologies. was a classic state-'
rncnt cl principle which we can ell, I
hope. agree upon and accept. It can do
nothing but good that that statement tirinciple was made. However. the rstall of the right hon. Gentleman's speech
was a comp curly unsuccessful eliori to
explain away his own White Paper. and
that is something which we must discuss.
I think it is rather futile to waste our
time holding an inquest on Burgess
and Maclean. What we ought to consider
today are the lessons we can learn lor tk
future from that lamentable incident. '1
shall try to conne most ol my remarh
to that problem. but l Lhinlt that in this
debate we are laced with two opposite
diicultics. Certainly. there is a danger
that we shall encourage witch hunting;
and, goodness knows. It one part of the
Foreign Secretary's speech I was slightly
afraid. That was when he said that we
had to consider our allies in what we did.
I hem he did not mean mat he thought
our allies. the Americans. had been more
successlul in dealing with these problems
than we have. -- - s - - -'- -'.
I am sure he did not mean it. because
if we have shown a degree of lassitude
they have shown an extreme in loyalty
tests which. I lbinlt. has done more
damage to their liberties and to the
strength of America in the world than
Burgess and Maclean have done to III:
1' hinlr G the State Department. Think dthe panic ellorts to impose Io!yalty thereby elaborate code! Think o the eoct
ol the feeling that oicials could not risk
writing what they really meant in their
diplomatic messages for lear ol being
read aloud at a Congressional inquiry."
Thai is an object lesson of the dangers dlextreme panic about security. ' --'1
' But there is another side to this. "We
must sec that the cause of McCartliyisr._nwas not so much the cllect cl the {ear d
espionage as the popular suspicion. thatlor political reasons either politicians or
high ollieials were covering uphthe signsol people in privileged places. Indeed,
I believe that ii the Truman Administra-
tion had gone into matters thoroughly and
' .
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_ {B/ltt. Caossvnu~t.] ' s _ J -
had been sccn not to have been covering
up matters. then the McCarthy hysteria
might have been prevented beforehand.
Therefore. it seems to me absolutely
essential in this Burgess and Maclean
case that any suspicion of covering up.
any suspicion. not of these two. but of
other pco le, being covered who werercsponsibi; for the fact that they could do
what they did must be removed. Frankly,
neither the White Paper nor the Foreign
Secretary's speech has wholly removed
those suspicions from my mind. ' -
I was very glad that the Foreign Secre-
tary said that we have to remember that
security does not apply only to a couple
of thousand high oicials in Whitehallwho-are dealinlg with secret documents.It applies to t e tens of thousands of
industrial workers, especially those in air-
craft factories. They are subject tosecurity.loo.. - - -- -- - - --
When l was listening to my right hon.
Friend's description of his perturbation
oi mind when considering the case of
Maciean. to his description of what was
the real agony of making up his mind
whether the man should be kept on, and
when I considered all the trouble that
was taken for Maclean. I could not help
recollecting an incident brought to my
attention last August of a constituent of
mine, an aircraft factory worker in
Coventry. He was sent for b the per-sonnel manager and was told that he wasa security risk because he was a member
of the ocal branch of the Communist
Party. He was dismissed from the factory
overnight. There was no court of appeal
for him. There were not three wise
men " to consider his case. There was no
sort of protection for him. He was
chucked out because of an untrue
allegation. _ _ . p
I do not want to argue the case. because
I am dealing with it elsewhere. and I
acltnowledgc that the Minister of Supply
has been very helpful. but it made me
think. and I made some inquiries. We
have to face the fact that security covers
all our aircraft iactories and that literally
scores ot people are now being moved
Irom one position to another, very often
without their ltnowin why and havingtheir careers blighted by security charges.I wonder whether the procedure in other
cases is based on as idle gossip as the
accusation against my constituent. from
i t which I am trying to liberate hit:n.p_.; v___g
H'1: I IICQI
1tI1"*2.'."' iii I_?--l'-l='- '. ,, T;-.'_'.' ;.T;Y._¢T1'_1_..'--...-_a_-._ --.. t -re! cw-"=*lg A-aw--. -'
I 1'
Oicials-Dfs.cpp:tIrnllc¢ m,
I say to the Foreign Secretary atldt
the Prime Minister at the tatntest ata
icion that security regulations are Iforced ruthlessly on the small fry in thfactories but with innitelyrestraint and conscientiousncss the ighe?
up a man is--that suspicion is utterly.
destructive of democracy in this countryI must say that I wish my constituent hat
received the amount of IKZCIJCC which Wat:
accorded to Burgess and Maclean. M!!
constituent was completely innocent. butwas thrown out on common gossip;
There was not the care taken over hits.
that was taken over thesetwo men hi
highly lrey positions Dre thoroughnes
and care taken in their cases contrasts.
with the rough treatment accorded to as
aircraft factory workergwho talked onemg! °"' or '°h°°l; ;:.;~'._ac:.aas- 'e:.;....
Therefore. I sage that our major pre-
occupation must to see. if we are to
have security regulations. as we must-that they are ingwposed with the most ruth-less equality. o! Thatiswrong. They
should be imposed with greater severity
the higher one goes! Surely those who
have oieial State secrets in their hands.
those who have access to secret doctt-_rne_nts. must accet a severe: interpre-'tatton of security t an workers in aircralt
factories. If some of them say, " We are
such sensitive souls. and our talents.
though very great. are not the sort ct
talents which can thrive in a world of red
tape security." then they must be told
they must go elsewhere. They must be
told that their genius must be dispensed
~.a. -- t-"J "J ' »".'r's.5't£t.'*s'92sl!-3:.-"5!
But although security is essential. we .
ought to keep its range as small as pos-q : i l t .2? -r5.:'.a'T4¢-'=-'-"- "-'" 3" . . . . . . - . .-.....'_t"r 1 '='- " _-' J3-'-"=5 ~__R_ .¢ a _-__;_ ,q__ __;___;-__"g_-__;_'__._;__..__,,__ - ' , -'-9
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sible. and it must be enforced tnost of all =
in areas like the Foreign Oice or the
three Services. With that as a background
let us consider the White Paper on
Burgess and Macleatt. -I start with thc t
last paragraph of it. which tells us why
we could not be told. =1-=1: i-1*" --7'-r-'
Counter-espionap :'Y."Z depends I its
success upon the maximum secrecy It"=='h°t" 1-= ~ er"-~rr"*tt.:*»:¢ '='=.":.r:r1.'-ta i; '
it says. ..i.'..' 2.7.. '31:; _i.Z i;§.I§;I-'2 .-;t_I:
i I had better declare my interest in this
subject. During the war I was both a
temporary member of the Foreign Oice.and so directly responsible to the present
Prime Minister. was also a member
ct a secret department and at one time
c-nan
-:;-sr--- +1» i , ".1 .,;-:-.s:-'.-fuses; tr
Q-g ' *_ '
_ A fl 4,-,__4__ ;_ V _7 ; ';_ cc. . A-_- ~;;f$.:#1'¥r"":upa':.s '* "-s . 0aI
a
…[truncated]