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Hr. Anaxs. Well, the program as such, as I ce.n_r'econstruet from
les, was indicated as concern over conspiratorial eorts of certainFe, and a decision made that perhaps more airmative actionEon d be taken to neutralize violence which was becoming of moreconcern to the FBI in that regard. I believe these are some of the basic
considerations that went into the launching of the COINTELPRO.
Now, as far as the rst one, which was the Communist Party, ofcourse, l'.l'lBl'B_'Wl8 the concern here to neutralize the effectiveness of the
Communist Party in the United Staten In fact, out of all of theCOINTELPRO operations that were aiigsived. 59 percent oiwere directed at the Communist Party. bulk of the concern ini-
tially was with the Communist Party, and it was a desire to create fac-
tionalism within the Communist Party and try to neutralize its eorts.
The Communist Party-Congress itself still has a determination on
the record as to the threat of the Communist Party in a statute. The
Supreme Court. has held that the Communist Party is an uistrument of
the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union certainly has not 1'0-l:lIlqiIl8_liBd
its interest in the United States as a target. All of these considera_.tions
went into should we do something not only to follow the activities of
the Communist Party, but should we destroy its effectiveness in the
United States. That was the rst program, I believe, that was initiated.
Senator Towsn. Non, did the Bureau ever seek direction and eounmlfrom the Attorney General on any of its COINTELPRO eorta or
specic programsMr. Anaiis. As best as I can reconstruct. Senator. there was no direct,
authority requested from any Attorney General for the initiation of
these programs. and it is only a question. as your staff presented yester-
day, that the A_ttOm8_§8 General. Presidents, Congress, had been madeaw_are of certain aspects of programs after the feet and those were
pl'll!i3Iil]f_ concerned with the Communist Party. and on one other
organization but not the New Left and these other types. So I cannot
nd any evidence, and I have no reason to believe. that there would be
any evidence that the Bureau initiated these programs other than as
an internal decision.
Senator Towns. Were reports on these programs made to the Attor-
ney Generali Was he informed of them! 9292"as he kept informed on a
continuing basis? "
Mr. Anaiits. He was kept informed by letters, which again the stat!
has alluded to, letters reporting certain developments. For instance,
one of them that went to one Attorney General. reading of that letter
092_itliIied almost in complete detail Klan activities, activities taken to
disrupt the Klan. It used terms of neutralize, disrupt. There were aclea1;.;xplanation of what we were doing against the Klan in that
YER! -
Senator Town. Flow is it that you came to believe that you had the
authority to neutralize or disrupt these organizations rnt-her than pro-
ceed against them frontally through prosecuting them for Violations
of the law!
Mr: Itoaots. I giiemyoii would have to say, in a position like this.that it _is ]ust the Smith Act of 1940, which is designed to prevent
revolutionary groups from advocating the overthrow of the Govern-
ment, and then subsequent interpretations as to the constitutionality
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ct it leave as with a statute still on the leech that certainactions, but yet the de of plroof necessary to operate under the fewre11i1aining areas is each that t ere was no satisfactory way to proceed,
an it was an area w ere?
The Cnaramm. Will the Senator yield at that point, please! Whatyou are saying, Mr. Adams, is that you did not oiperrait within thelaw because the law didnt give you suicient latitu e. ere_ ore youunder-took_ direct action to disrupt and otherwise undermine these
0 nrzatlons.rgnator Town. Did you proceed on the assumption that these
organizations would eventual] break the law, and therefore you soughtto neutralize and disrupt themibefom they did?
Mr. Aoaus. I cant say that, sir. I think that the investigations of
them were based on this belief, that they might break the law or they
were breaking the law. The disruptive activities, I oant nd where
we were able to relate to that. Wliat it boils down to is what we have
gotten into a ouestion on before; in our review of the situation we seemen of that F13; reeogniztig or havgng a good-faith belief that therewas imme iate anger tot e United tatee.
Senator Town. All right, but to repair to Senator Church's question,you dog: say that you really had specic legal uhorgya I dMr. ans. No. And this is the hang-up wit t e w o e program, an
which we are not trying to justify, that there is some statutory basis.
I would not make that eort whatsoever. All Pm trying to do is say
that at the time it was initiated, we had men who felt that there was
an immediate danger to the country. They felt they had a responsibility
to act, and having felt this responsibility, did act. And this is the whole.problem we have at the present time. because we do have one, we an
eeegood ew idence of their belief there was a threat. lVe had cities being
burned; we had educational institutions being bombed. We had deaths
occurring from all of these activities. We had a situation that we didnt
know what the end was going to be. I
_ Wepnever can look around the corner in intelligence operations. We
dont know if ultimately this might bring the destruction of the coun-
try. All we know is we had an extremely violent time. So I don't nd
any basis in my mind to argue with their good-faith belief they were
faced with a danger.
Now, when they move over to the second area of responsibility. here
is where we have the pmblem. and I think it is the whole purpose of
mi?! committee» the AUOYHEI General, Mr. Kelley, all of us realizing
we cant operate in these areas where we feel responsibility, but we
dont have a mandate by Congress. S0 in that area, this feeling of
responsibility I feel came from the fact that Presidents, as your stalf
said yesterday. Presidents. Congressmen. the Attorney General. no one
really provided direction and guidance or instructions don't do this,
do this. don't do that. or what are you doing and how are you doing it.
For instance. there is some feeling on the part of some that our whole
domcstie intelligence operations was secret. The COINTELPRO
operation was. I mean. I think we all agree that this was, to be e'ec-
tive, they feit itshouid be Tint back in our--this is printed ap-
propriation teslimouy which went to the members of the committee. It
was mailed out to newspapers, friends, anyone that was interested in it,
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back in 1967 talking about Internal Securitsoperationa, NewLeft movement, Young Socialist Alliance, C 'ca_go trial, nation1_ndedemonstrations, student. agitation, antiwar activities, the Colnmlttof Returned Volunteers, Communist Party, U.S.A., Progeslive Party,
Socialist Party, extreme organizations, Black Panther arty. _All of these items and statements about white extremists
and hate-type groups, the Republic of New Africa, Minuteman, our
coverage of subversive organizations-there are several groups, orga-
nizations, and movements which I discussed showed the wide coverage
we must maintain to follow on their ectivitia and changing tactics,and in spite of the proliferation of these organizations, our inform_l.ntcoverage at all leve s has been of great value and assistance, enabling
us to eep abreast of our investigative responsibilities. This is the
same way through all of our public appropriation testimony. We have
told the world we are investi ting black hate groups, New Leftgroups. So, I merely mention this to try to put in the frame of ref-
erence of these men, feeling, they know we are invmtigating them.
They didnt tell them, though, in suicient detail other than scantily
before the Appropriations Committee, what we were doing to disrupt$11896 activities, and-my feeling is that the men recognized the danger,they pointed out the uanger to the world. They said, we ire invatr
gating these organizations, and they felt then that the comfortable
climate of leave it up to the FBI, we should do something more And
that is what we are looking for guidelines on, the Attorney General,
Mr. Kelley, you, to give us the guidelines under which we should
operate. _
Now, there are certain guidelines that we dont need to be given,we 5houldnt do this. We dont have such activities todaiv, programsdesied to disrupt and neutralize in the domestic intel igence eld.
But yond that, we need guidelines on what does the whole of Con~
gress, representative of the people, by passing of legislation say this is
the FBIs role in domestic intelligence.
Senator Towns. Mr. Chairman, my time has long since expired.
But I would like to note that I saw Mr. Kelley on the Today Show
this morning indicating strong support for a response to congres-
sional oversight, and that is a healthy attitude.
The Cnam:-um. Well, I think it must come because. as you have
conceded, you shouldnt have ever had to have had the guidelines
that the Federal Governments chief law enforcement agency ought
not to disobey the law, and realiv. you dont need explicit guidelines
to tell you that, or you shouldnt. Wouldnt you agree!
_ L_rIr._ Angina. I would say that _l00lt_ing at it today, we should have
looked at it that way yesterdav, but I do feel, I don-t have any doubt
about the good faith of people recognizing the danger, feeling they
had a responsibility, no matter whose fault it was. ours internally orbeausewe we:-ent given the supervision we should have been given,
an taking what thev considered to be appropriate action.
The Cn.92m:r.92.92'. Senator Hart.
Senator HART of Michigan. I should apologize both to witnesses
and my colleagues on the committee for scrambling around loosely,
but in explanation to the witnesses. I have not been able to give atten-
tion to the evolution of the les that are now at hand until the last
couple of days, and I are not sure what is Ln the les for the public
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record, and which of the materials I have been shown in the last couple
of days are still under seal. So just out of memory I arn going to sum-
marize certain activities which have been acknowledged that the
Bureau undertook, but without being specic with respect to location
and names. I do it for this Faifii it is ght that the oooiroittee
and the press be worried about the treatment of a Nobel Prize win-
ner, Dr. King; but there are an awful lot of people who never got
close to a Nobel Prize whose names are Jones and Smith, that my
review of the les show had violence done to their rst amendment
rights. Nobel Prize winners will always get protection, but Joe
Potatoes do'wnt. and the Committee should focus on him, too.
Included in these COINTELPRO activities were, anonymousletters, drafted by Bureau oices in the eld, sent to headgiuartem in
Washington, approved. and then put in the mail, intend to break
up marriages. not of Dr. King but of Mary and John Jones because
one or the other was thought to be a dissenter, might have dtessed
strangely or showed up at meetings in company of others who dressed
strangely. Anonymous letters were sent to university oicials and tothe several newspapers in that city to {prevent university facilities from
being made available to a speaker o whom the Bureau disapproved I
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In that case, an anonymous letter was sent to me making protest.
Being an anonymous letter. it never occurred to me that it came from
the Fedrzlxll Bu|au of Inves-stigaltiion. The serifs of anoréymou letters,one wit t es in ve r.t e mmars o an anot er moresophisticated Flé-<>:§s¢in!Z tllitaemplorrhent of relay a cifty, ailleginthat he was a ommunist or came from a ommunist umi , anthere are loyal Americans out of work. what are you doing. riiayon
And to the press, isn't this an outrage. And again the letter. the
anonymous letter sent to me saying what are you going to do about this.
There are loyal Democrats in this town who need work. And in that
can I happened to have known the man shout whom the protest was
made, and the Bureaus facts were wrong as hell on that man
loyalty. He was as loyal as you or I. Now, yes or no, are those actionsrerded now by the Bureau as within bounds!
r. Amara. No, sir.
Senator Ham of Michigan. Why were they regarded as within
boidsA92;l:en ti? 1111-ere ?np:'oved by tihe Bureau! f COINTEL r. us. e . I t iin even un er the idelines oP310, as established. tge pf;0gT"lII;lS were not Elsiisignedcfor thehpurposeo arassment 0 an in ivi ua . ie memoran ums in icate t e weredesigned to disrupt the organizations. Some of the turndowng were
turned down on this specic wording. This is mere haramment.
The rationale would have beenend of course. here. I say some of
these you mentioned wouldn't even appear to me to meet the criteria of
the rogram and should have been disarowed. even under the existenceof tge pmrasm. H¢::'e92'er. th: total context of the program. activitiesIll In inanf fnara I Q nu-nnniaaiinn Han F had In Rn an-I7' 92Il92I it ll-I 92llI92v92-I9292l Ir92I92IIll92l, Ill? 92Il llll¢IlII92IlI> lllll, I'll "3 III ll92I92do that at the present time. r E
Senator Harrr of Michigan. Yes. But everything I have summarizedrathgr approved by the Bureau at the time by headquarters,not y t e e o ce agents.
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Mr. Aunts. I do not think that there were improper actions takenunder the program, even under the program as it existed. Mr. Kelleyhas so stated is recognition of that fact. The Attorney General cer-talrilly has. Yet the maioritg of the actions taken. even the Qepartmenteon uded were lawfu an legal, proper investigation activities, but
are---
Senator Hairr of Michigan. You see, my feeling is that it isn't a quea-
tion of techniques that are bad. The concept of the program seems todo violence to the rst amendment because everything you did sought
to silence someone or threaten someone to silence, or eny someone_a
platform, or create an atmosphere in which people were in fact afraid
to amemble. Now, sometimes law enforcement. legitimate law enforce-
ment, bas what we call this chilling eect, when it is iegltimate law
enforcement. Oftentimes that chilling eect is a neeemary, though
regretable, side eect. But what I am talking about, and what these
les are full of, are actions the only purpose of which is to chill. It
isnt in pursuit of any crime at all. Indeed. when a court of generaljurisdiction approved the use of that university premise bat thespeaker, the ureau had stirred so much controversy wi its
anonymous letters, when that judge wrote an order. after the sponsor-ing group went to court, what was the Bureaus reaction from head-
quarters Investigate the judge.
Mr. Amara. Im not familiar with that fact_
Sonator Ham" of Michigan. Fell. neither was I until last night.
Mr. Aoasts. The instruction was to investigate the judge?Senator Ham of Michigan. This is the sort of thing that I came out
of the hospital to nd, and it is the sort of thing, as said yesterday,that my children have been telling me for years you were busy doing,and I simply didnt believe them. And t ey we're right and I was
wrong.Mr. Amine. Well, there were about 3.200 activities. and about 2.300 I
believe or so were approved under the COINTELPRO, and over 59
percent were addressed to the Communist Party. That leaves 1,000.And out of 1,000, perhaps, I don-t know what the actual gure wasof ones that just c eagliy stand out as imp:-oprietous under the pro-gram. even as it exist at the time, but do feel thats-well, it is a
very difficult area.
Senator Ham of Michigan. My time is up, too, I am sure, butregarding the Communist Party, if your theory continues to be thatanynsocia ly active group of citizens who organize. whether women'slib rs or ti ht the bomb or anvthing else, might be a target forinltration gy the Communist Party and therefore you can morein your agents. That means, aimed not as an overstatement, that anyan every citizens activitg could be made the target of_the kind of
activity that I have just escribcrl, because every individual is apt.during his lifetime, to engage in violence. If that 15 justification, then
you are justified in lnnllig surveillance on everybody,
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seek to justify shutting o the forum for that group or to survey it,
the potential for Commimist inltration, then, if that continues to be
your theory, then I say you are going to pursue the same wretched
road that these les show you have been pursuin before. If that isthe predicate. the fact that a Soviet or Marxist or Eiaoist Hottentot is
liab e to think there is an idea that we can exploit, then you peo le aregoing to be spending how many man-hours, how many tax dollarsoingghe kin of things that I-summarized so briey hero! That, inmy lr, is the 20th century version of what the Founding Fathers
intended to prevent when they wrote the rst amendment. Is it the
position of the Bureau when a Communist participates, associates with,
and promotes an idea, that this justifies you trying to gure out ii _
you can bust up a marriage if two of the people are in the group!
Mr. Aunts. It does not, and it is not our criteria; no, sir.
Senator I-1. of Michigan. What does it justify! _
Mr. Aniurs It justies our doing not-hing in the way of COIN
TELPRO activities. I still feel it has a justicatiou, that you agree
witl1._to investigate the Communist Party. It is when you get into
the disruptive areas. where the program does beyond investigation,
that we have no statutory authority. _ _ _Senator Em of Michigan. Well. we have been emphasizing '
COINTELPRO. W0tlld it justify tailing these people?
Mr. Amara. What. just a----
Senator H,urr of Michigan. Or putting an informant into the group!Mr. Amara. If it is a Communist group!
Senator Hmrr of Michigan. No. if its me and somebody else that
thinks we oughtlft to have something that a. majority of people think
we should. We organize and you people say, WeH, there is something
the Communists can take and run with."
Mr. Amara. No, sir.
Senator H.urr of Michigan. Does that justify a surveillance of them I
Mr. Amnrs. It does not. and we would not-. Before we would even
open a preliminary inquiry, we should have an indication that the
Communist Party has attempted to inltrate or is inltrating. In
other words. where you have some evidence of a. subversive groupparticipating in the functions of that organization, and there are greog
areas here. in the spectrum of anything where I am sure we have open
investigations where we should not because there has been scant evi-
dence of such inltration. And this is a supervisorv problem. It is a
criteria problem. And it is also an oversight problem which we are
responding to. '
Senator Han-r oi 192Iich_iga_ra My time is up I_-rid. I havent gottlm into
some of the other material.
The Crumuus. Well. Senator. you have not been with us-
Senator I-Lurr of Michigan. No. no. I just-
The Cnamnas. If you want more time. you have a lot of time stored
up. Iffvou want to use it now. go right ahead.
Senator I-I.92I'r of M'ichigun_. Well. let me ask the just-ication for
this sort. of business. I have been talking about the tluings I have seen-
in the les that bear on direct denial of rst amendment rights, and
again. this does not deal with the treatment of a distinguished Ameri-
can. Indeed, it involves groups that are generally viewed with very
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sharp disapproval. 'Ihe ground rules for the treatment should he
precisely the same, whether he is a good, popular guy, or a dirty,smelly guy. What was the purpos of the Bureau in tryinlto st1r_ up
strifeperhaps I shouldnt aay what was the purpoeew t possible
juatication for the Bureau trying to sic the Black Panthers on that
outt out in California, or between the Black Panthers and the B_lacl§-atone Rangers in Chicago? Was it with the hope that by fonientmg it
they woul kill each other ol
Mr. Amuaa. Absolutely not, and I think the committee sta can
inform you that during their review of all of these matters they
have-.~nt corne n with one instance of violena resulting from any ofthese actions. Iii that particular there was a communiution in
the same le, which I believe the stal had access to, which showed that
we did get information that one of these groups was going to put out a
contract on one of the others. and Ie notied the police and the indi-
vidual of the tact that their life was in danger. None of our programs
have contem lated violence. and the instructions prohibited it, andthe record oi turndowns of recommended actions in some instances
specically say that we do not approve this action because if we take it,
it could result in harm to the individual. So, I think this is one
chargeand the staff did not make such a charge, I might add, when
they presented the picture--but I any inference that we were
trymgto result in violence is wrong.
Senator Hnirr of Michigan. Let no explain for the record why I
reached the conclusion I did.
Mr. Anaars. The wording of that |nemorandum--
Senator Ham of Michigan. And why I continue to hold to that
conclusion.
On January 30, 1969. the Bureau headquarters in Washington
approved sending an anonymous letter to the l_eader of the Blackstone
Rangers, Je' Fort. which indicated that the Black Panthers had put
a contract out on his life as a result of conicts between the two
organizations [exhibit 28 F]. Now, you say that was to warn him.
I ask, wasnt the principal nurpoae of the letter to encourage the
Rangers to shoot some or all of the leadership of the Panthers!
Otherwim, what does this quote mean. and I will read it. It is from
a memorandum from the Chicago oloe of the FBI asking approval
to undertake this. Here is the way it reads: It is believed that the
above this anonymous tip that a contract is out on you. It is believed
that the above may intensify the degree of animosity between the
two groups and occasion Fort to tab retaliatory actions which could
disrupt the BBP. the Black Panthers or lead to reprisals against-
its leadership. Consideration has given to a similar letter to the
Panthers alleging a Ranger plot against Panther leadership. How-
ever, it is not felt that this will be productive, principally because the
Panthers at present 18 not heheved as violence prone at the Rangers,
to whom violent type activity, shooting and the like, are second
nature. [Exhibit 293]
Now. how can you reach any conclusion other than a purpose was to
generate the kind of friction that would induce the ltilling----
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I , Hr. Amara. Well, if that purpose was for that i-ather than generat-! factionalism, disagreements, dismptgi it, it would be contrargetorthe communication I referred to in the er le, the Black Pant_ rs
versus Ellis, where we notied the police of the contract, we notied
the individuals of the contract and took every action at our command
to prevent direct violence, and also the fact that -the les showed that
we turned down these situations where violence was involved.
Senator I-Iairr of Michigan. We-ll, we have dieringjiews re-! gpect to motives and the purpose of the Panther situtaion inI Ugtill do not amid?-stand why we ?ugl;t to seththe Panthilrs aifdd ,tgroup in ai ornia againstea ot er ast ey were. so, onknow whether ilt is in the gpen or not, what pl-11?? gger thanto occasion vio ence move t e ureau to approve o or signa-
tures of Communist Party personnel on letters addressed to Maa-
owned businesses attacking the employment practices of those busi-
L iii Why wc¥uld tlgel Burcsnzhink there wlag 11% value lI?bE1SE§;'0dinconcoctinga om-e etter. tus assume i art is a oca in-
I inunist in this cityI'The Bureau forges Phil Harts name to a racket-gwned business. notorious for using muscle, that fellowa.| usiness practices. Certainly it was not inten to improve the em-
ployment practices. -
1 Mr. Anaus. I think if the full communication were available, it did
show a purpose unrelated to violence. I dont recall the exact wording
now, but I think it was to create a lack of support or something like
that. This was part of that HOODWIAIK program. I believe, that
was one of four actions that were involved in HOODWINK, and I
think there have been some public descriptions of that program that
indicate that it wasnot the greatest thing coming down the pikel _ _
Senator Hairr of Michi n. Well. that is the sort of thin 1 foundthat persuaded me to say?:ry openly that I do not buy thegidea thatthe American lpeople ultimately are responsible for that kind of non-
sense because am certain that virtually every family in the countryBoa? have sreamed in proesé no matter how much they dislikedr. ing ort e Panthers ort e ommunists.
. Mr. Amuse. Sir-
Senator I-Lurr of Michigan. If they had known that tax money and
Federal rsonnel were busy around the country. notwithstandingbank robgries that were going on at the same time, pounding out thatkind Sf correspondence and inciting that kind of conict and curbingi
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i Thank you, Mr. Chairman. ii 1
' The Cuamanm. Thank you very much, Senator Hart. ' "'
Senator Mondale is next. .
§enato_r Moxoaiz. Mr. Adams. I realize that you were not a part of
this particular event. But being an experienced FBI hand, I wonder if
you could help us understand the psychology that -led to this kind ofmemorandum. p I "
; Mr. ADAIIB. I feel it coming, but go ahead. " ' '
Senator M0xn.92:.r.. This is a memorandum to the Director. It has
been referred to before. It calls for removing King from his pedestal
III -l IGIJIOIMIIIH llllll U-I iJUlllcva|92- 92lilGa Allw lll92'lll92I AG 92-ID!-t-92l I|'na|unaJ U
1964, and was written a week following the time that King was named
man of the year by Time Magazine. [See footnote p. 21.] _ _ ' I
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This memo, as on know, received the following comment from Mr.Hoover: I am glad to see that light, though it has been delayed,come to the Domestic Intelligence Division, and so on. I would pastuote part of the language and magvbe you can help us understandline psychology that led to it. The rst part of memo says; Wehave got to remove King from his pedestal. Then rt says: '
The Negroes will he lett without a national leader oi sncientiy compellingpersonality to steer it in a proper direction. This is what could happen but need
not happen it the right kind or national negro leader could at this time be gradu-
ally developed so as to overthrow Dr. King and he in the position to assume the
role of leadership oi the Negro people when Kin: has he-en completely dis-
credited.
IorsomemonthsIhaveheenthlnkinaahoutthismattu-.0neda!Ihadan
opportunity to explore this from a philosophical and sociological standpoint with
X [the name oi the leader] whom I have known ior some years. As I previously
reported. he is a very able fellow and one on whom I can rely. I asked him to
give the matter some attention. and it he knew any Negro oi! outstanding intelli-
ggncg or ability, let me know and we would have a discussion.
He has submitted to me the name of the above-named person. Enclosed with
this memorandum is an outline of X's biography, which is truly remarkable. In
scanning this biography, it will be seen that X does have all of the qualications
otthenindotahlegrolhaveinmiadtoadvancetopositionaotnational
leader-ship»
And slapping:
I want to make it clear at once that I don't propose that the FBI in any way
become involved openly as the sponsor of a Negro leader to overshadow Martin
Luther King. It this thing can be set up properly without the Bureau in any way
becoming directly involved, I think it would he not only a great help to the FBI,
but would he a line thing for the country at large.
While I'm not specityins at this moment, there are various ways in which the
si could give this entire matter the proper i.iret:t.1" 6iI_i.T1i development. There
are hisbl! Dllced contacts at the FBI who it might he very helpful to further such
a step. This can be discussed at a later date when I have probed more fully into
the possibilities and this recommendation is that slroval be given tor me to
explore the whole matter as set forth above.
And to that Mr. Hoover says :
I'm glad to see the lighthas nally come. I have struggled tor mouths to set
over the tact that the communists were taking over the racial movemta but
our experts here couldn't or wouldn't see it.
Now I think you testied earlier that you do not accept this asproper FBI activity, but can you helg us understand how at one point!!'l __roericen history someone thought it w.1_s proper, epporently in-
cluding the Director!
Mr. Ansats. I would have to sa for one thing that this ts into thereal motive of the discrediting 0? Martin Luther King, which I dontfeel can be fully explored. I think that the people most. directly in-
volved in that are not available, because I don t know from my experi-__-_ _____L i1_-_ a___1 :_ __:___a :_ LL:- _____.'| 1' '|___ _._ _'l_--La .e___. s'l-.:..BIIX WHIL [I15] IIECI. III Hllilll III. U11! IEgll'92L L IIIVO IIU 92lUlll:D92¢ 'll'Ull.-I. UIIURI
memorandum and other memorandums that the two mdmduals lil-
volved felt very strongly that Martin Luther King was a threat to the
success of the Negro movement and that steps should be taken to get
hun out of that-what the reason for it was or the motivation, I am
just not in e position to an I do sev it is imnroper to inject yourselfmto that type of activity, hut I donlt know w'hat the real motive was.
Senator Moxmne. Dr. King was investigated, as I think you testi-
ed earlier, because of fears of Conunrmist influmos upon him!
Mr. Amara. Yes.
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Senator Moimane. Is that a proper basis for investigating Dr. King
or an one else! -YMr. Anaxs. It is, where you have information indicating that theCommunist Partv is and has made eorts to trzeto inuence an in-
dividual. I would say that that would normally considered within
the current criteria. -
_ Senator_ Mosnau. You would consider that to be a valid basis for
mvestigtmg today!Mr. ans. The movement itself, but not the individual.
Senator Moxn.u.r.. How do you investigate a movement without in-
vestigating individuals!
_ Mr. AbAlI8- You do get into a gray area. The main thing would be
if we had an organization today that we saw the Communist Party
gravitating to, trying to work in positions of leadership, we would be
interested H1 opening an investigation on Communist inltration of
that organization to see if it was aifecting it.
Senator !Io.92'n.u.a. All right, now let's go back snecicallv. I gatherthere never was any question raised about whether Dr. King was a
Communist. That was never charged.Mr. .A.n.nte. Not as a Communist Partmember, no, sir.
Senator Monnann. Thats ri ht. Or t t he was about to commit, orhad committed acts of violenceil
Mr. ADAMS. No. '
Senator Moxmmn. But the reason for investigating him apparently
was that he was subject to Communist inuence. Now what makes that
a justified reason for investigating him! Is it a crime to be approached
by someone who is a Communist!
Mr. ADAMS. No.
Senator Moxu-ai..r.. What is the legal basis for that investigation!
Mr. Anazus. The basis would be the Communist inuence on him and
the effect it would have on the organization. It would be in connection
with our basic investigation of the Communist Party.
Senator Moxnaas. Well, as I understand the law to read, it is not a
crime to he a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Anaars. That is correct.
Senator B-Ioxnana. How can it be a crime to know someone who is a
member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Aunts. It is not. ~
Senator Mozwnana. How do you investigate something as tenuous as
that! What is the basis for it legally!
Mr. ADAMS. Well, it falls into the area of, one, the intelligence juris-
diction of the activities of the Communist Party to have a situation
where an individual in an organization, a loader of an organization,
e'o1-ts are being made to inuence him and to achieve control over the
organization, and it ls part of the overall investigation of the party
trying to exert this inuence as to are they successful. are they takingover the black movement or the civil rights movement. It is just like
we tried to make clear in investigations t mt were more prevaient years
ago but nil] occur on the Communist inuence in labor unions. We
tried to tell e92'erybod_v we interview we are not interested in labor mat-
ters. 92Ve are not trying to inquire into that. We are intermted in the
eect of the Communist Party on this union.@-
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Senator Moxuaim. Mr. Adarna. I am tryinto get at the legal basisin this fiarticulnr case for investigating Dr. ing on the grounds thathe rnig it be subject to Communist ll] uenee. Can you_c1te any legalbasis or that, or is it based entirely upon a authority
thought to exist in the FBI to investigate internal security matters!
Mr. Aunts. It would fall also in the Presidential directives of III-
vestigating subversi re activities. _ _Senator Moxoanz. Then the question would return to what authority
the President had. _
Mr. Ammo. Thats right. _ I _ _
Senator Mos-ua1.r. Now Dr. King was investigated, among otherthings, for matters of, I think you call it delicacy. Would that be a
basis for investi ting an American citizen by the FBI!Mr. Amuse. Na _ _ _ _
Senator Mo.w"o.u.e. Would you say then that those invest-i,;_nt1ons
were improper! _ _ _ _Mr. Amara. I dont believe that there is an allegation that we u_1ve$.1-
gated him for that. I think there were certain by-products of informs-
tion that developed and I think at a point you had a situation where
the tail was wagging the dog. perhaps, but I dont see any basis for
such investigation. And I nd it very diicult to get into a. discussionof this in view of t-he gr-ohibitions that I think
Senator Mo.92"uaI..a. ou answered my question. That by itself would
not be a basis for investigation.
Mr. Aunts. No, sir.
Senator i92Ioxu.u.e. Would you agree with me, Mr. Adams, that this
area of the assignment that the FBI had been tasked. which they
thought they possessed or oould use to investigate Americans: _is an
exceedingly vsgiie. ciicuit. if not lnlpOSii'.!lt. urea to dene? It 1s_ not
an area where there were allegations of crime or suspicion that crimes
were about to be committed. or that violence was about to beoommitted,
but rather this whole generalized area, to investigate Americans in
terms of ideas that they have or might be persuaded to have, ideas
that might hold potential for danger to this country. This vague areahas got the FBI into an awful lot of trouble, including toda.ys
hearings.
Mr. Aunts. Yes, sir.
Senator Moxuauz. And because of that, there is a very important
need to sit down and rcdcnc the guidelines, and have those guidelines
iown specically by all, so that the FBI can know precisely what
it can do and what it cannot do. '
Mr. Aunts. I think this is why the country is fortunate in this
particular time to have an Attorney General who is a legal scholar and
a lawyer of unquestioned repute who has indicated a willingness to
address these problems, which, as the staff has determined, was not
always the case over the years. But we have an Attorney General, we
ha_ve a Director, who has offered his complete cooperation, just as
he has to the committee in this inquiry, that we are not trying to avoid
embarrassment. The only thing we are trying to holrl back are identi-
ties of informants and sensitive. ongoing operations that we have, a
wncern on the part of Cc-ngra that not only iT'vf6i'i.iil'ES there
have been abuses. but recognizes that there still always has to be some
degree of exibility.
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We are going to have situations where you have a Weatherman
working for the waterworks, and in college he was a scientic dudent,
and he makes a eomrnent to a fellow employee that there is going tobe some spectacular event that is going to bring attention of the
W PIG 'o on ems city. _
Senator Moxosu; Wouldnt you have probable BIAIIQ then to 1.IlVQ-tigate the commission of a crime! e '
Mr. Amuse. We mi ht have to investigate, but to disrupt, we havethe authority to tell the suriervisor of the waterworks, you had better
get him out of there before t e city water is poisoned and 100,000 people
die, and I think the committee is going to nd the same problems wedo in coping with that situation, and even the Attornely Gene:-a1_inhis speee in Ottawa pointed out that there is still possib y a neoealtyfor some exibility to take appropriate action under extreme condi-
tions. But it should be oontro led. It is like Mr. Kelley says, go to
the Attemejr General. explore the legal is-sea, lair the prohlemnp
there. It should not be handled internally in the FBI.
Senator Mozvosnz. But do you also agree that the Cengres ought to
redene the rules leg-islativelv!
Mr. Aunts. Yes; because the roblem I have with it is we talk aboutoversight, and Mr. Kelley andp the Attorney General and I believe
this committee agrees that we should have joint oversight which would
avoid the proliferation of hearings and the sensitive knowledge among
many people which always poses the risk of an inadvertent leek of
information. But yet even with oversight, under the plan you dis-
cussed _92'estrrdn_v. or some of the observations that were discussed yes-
terday. lirrving people, conservative, liberal, black, and the other queli=
iieations you put in. can a committee speak for the will of Congress!
At one time we had ongressmen making speeches all over the country.
if we do-nt stop these bombings, if somebody doesnt do something
about it this country is in trouble. Is that the will of Congress?
Until it is embodied in legislation where the whole will of Congrem
is expremcd. we are going to have problems.Senator Moxo.u.s. I am glad to hear that, because there is a waly
Con rose speaks. It is not through the buddy system or a person. tspasm through the law.
Mr. Aossts. That's right.
Senator Mose.-its. And new for the first time we have this whole
issue; it is not denied by the FBI. The elements are known. What. I
hear you saying is that you would like the Congress now to dene.and redene specically and carefully, what it is we expect the FBI
to do, and what it is we wish to prevent the FBI and wil prohibit the
FBI from doing.
Mr. Amara. Right. What is our role in society! After World War II.
if youll remember. a congressional committee met and raised all sorts
of storm over the fact that thcuc was not enough in the way of intelli-
gence investigations. Never again should it happen in the United
States that we be caught with our pants down. After the Kennedy
emmination. if you recall. the FBI em. properly criticized tor har-
ing too restrictive ills':§i!I1ll'lttlh!ll policies in connection withService because they depend upon us for the intelligence necessai-_v toprovide protection for t e President against extremist groups. We did
that, but just before the recent incidents in alifornia, them was going . ~l'-~= ' _ ..-"I: .' . - ' " ' ' ~ '.*'.' '. ' -'> 7 11-..--- ,. - ',->r'a._92 -- _ . --_. -_ K. t. ix;-;+§,_L..-pi -_. __ I . 3'5-,A,'__ ;;,_=;.v__r__ 92_ _ ,' § _ - _ _ _.§_r ._ I ~ ~ 5 - *- S 1 -1"-J J'{.i .' . -- _ - * - "-::92..i~i:¥ ';_':,*a-.*'-iv --- *." :*.-l-{=:~ --~+_» --* '--I --=-'-_"-- . .. >4 . 4'1, '...'* 1§""..%-J:- -=-'-~~~-11~'-a;~'~-."~..i.?--=. 11,- *~-"~- i' ' ' _t_ . ._,_ ;__ __ _,_ L Q 7:2 _ Q ea _v._-5;-_ '7-'92 -'5 '.._'s."_' l-. '
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to be ogininittee concern, not this cominiwee, over has there been too
ch ' ' t .M30 thbssiggllnibiiinthe position of, at dierent timee in our histoiz,lrag damned for-{doing too muhcht and daraneddégr doing litt tt ' been cting to t ' is w a y wanus told: and ilhisoisrsiiat we er: Dd-:1; aryposiiilon to do. We need the
will of Congress expressed in some denitive measure, yet providingthe latitude. because as you have seen from these problems. there are
e.i;:::s?::; "E no--seen, _,w--e11y@e we Q9!1_~~, e V W K .,_ .,esomeone can act, and I dont thintlgdyou or anyone else wants to tie_thehands of law enforcement when ay we have over 10 million serious
criiiies in thg lllilniteill State; We hagell million CFIIEIBS a _V&Ig3|!VOlk:11I'lgvio enee,a.n t ere asto acapa i itytoreact. utiven_ to ow
in better terms what is our role in this, especially in domstic
intelligence
Senator MONm92t.!'.. Thank you. Mr. Chairman. 7
Ssgliator gpwm [pres%<;ingL:_!. Sen§ItorC.'Eichweiker.M Ad 968 ator nwiimeii. an you, r. airiiian. r. ams, in 1
a letterpwritgen by the E;l192I."E8.llT}O Marvin Viirateon, AssistantM * .e . resident at t..e .. ..ite cuss, an... t..e eist e. ..-..ie .etter was,in reference to his request, and I want to mate it clear it was his
request, not the Bureaus, authors of books that were critical of the
Warren Commimion report on the assassination of President K_cn-
nedy_, were requested to le any pertinent personal data information,dossiers, et cetera, on seven individuals whose names I will not discuss.
Do you have any knowledge as to why the White House requestedthis kind of material on the Warren Commission critieei _
Mr. Annie. I dont recall. I am familiar with the-material. I did
review_it some time ago when we were testifying before the HouseCommittee in February, but I doift recall that I saw in there any:K3:ief motivation on the paii of the White House gioiip requesting' ' at'o .
S6i'i1lb:>rI3nSCiI1IIl'E1KI11l- Now, in the same letter it also says a copy ofthiconiuniocition has not been sent to the Acting Attorney General.
r. AM8. es.
Senator Scmvzixsii. Number one, is that a normal procedure, when
you get reauess of thi; lnlid that tléeACtl{lE Attorney tineral is by;passed an tr wast e ttorne nera assed in is instanceMr. ,ADA!IB. Ibis is not a l'lOI'II1{l procedurZ.PIt is not the procedureflollowed toiiIay.I;Ihei-e was a grind ogtiinelwherle. at the Presidentsirections, r. oover report more irect _ to im in certain areas,and it was apparently a feeling that he did? not want the Attorney
General to know certain things, _
Senator Scirwaiiriza. One of the dossiers specically included photo-g1';PllS of sexual activities.. r. Aiiaire. Yes, sir.
Senator Scizwziinzii. And my question is. how is that relevant to
being a ci-i_tic of the Warren Commission? What standard do we tie
when we just pass photographs of sexual activities to the White
House! Is this a normal proceeding when a dossier is requested! Ia
this normally included. or did they specically request photographs
oi this kind, or what light can you shed on this!
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Mr. Aoaiu. I cant shed much. I lmow they requestedinformatioiion him. I think there was other material concerning that individual of
a security nature that was included. Why the information in that]!-
was submitter! I em unable to answer. I do know at the timetheme was a lot of concem followi the Wsnen _Comm_issioi:i report.Had all the answers been exlploredllg Was the Soviet Union involved!Was Cuba involved? And w 0 were the critics who now are _attaclm1g
this! But I have seen nothing which would explain the rationale for
requesting the material.
Senator Sciiweiitm. I think what concerns the committee is, that
whenever you git to the iiitty-gritty of investigationsand it doesnt
relate to the Warren Commision, I will leave that aloiie--weFat back to something like a hotograph or a tape recording or someetter referring to some kind! of human weakness or failing that is
really very irrelevant to the il1V¬8ti_l:,'lti0n: is sandwiched in here.
It just seems to me that it was a tactic. This just happens to be the
Warien Commission I singled out, but it was a tactic that wasrather frequently as s lever, or for reasons which I am trying to
cover, as an instrument of investigative policy. Would you di er withthat or dispute that? What rationale would you use! Do we use
actual activities as a standard criterion for investigations! _
Mr. Aoaits. We do not use sexual activities as a criterion, but during
the course of our inve-stigationwe did have an investigation on that
individual at one time--and during the course of the investigation,
in checking the records of a local police department or a district
atto_rney_s_oice, they had conducted an investigation for acriminal
act involving these photographs. and they made that available to us.
So it went into our les. Now, the request of the President, he is the
Chief Executive of the United States. He in effect has custody of
everything. There are problems involved when the man who is in
charge of everything requests information. I would like to add, how-
ever, that following the cleansing eect of Watergate that I dont
know of any such requests coming over to the FBI anymore. There is
a direct line between the Attorney General and the Director, and the
Director certainly recognizes that in a case of extreme disagreement
he would have the alternative to tell the Attorney General, I need to
no directly to the President. or feel I should, but we do not have this
iinc of communication at the present tinie-
Senator Scnweixizn. It seems that if they had just listed what
was alleged in the other investigation. that certainly would have
suiced for whatever purpose. But it seems to me that when you
enclose living photographs, you are really attempting to discredit
these critics. What other purpose would a photograph of this nature
have. other than to discredit critics!
Mr. Amara. I ciint answer that.
Senator Sciiwsiimi. One area that I think this gets into, which we
reallv touched on in the assaination probe _Mr. Adams, is where
the Bureau stops when they act" some of these requests. You touchedan 14- - ha - -0 -'.--.1 'I"l!.. Diaa92e:4In=ud - L...-I 83- -is.-.-..s'I..2-.-_ T p492I92~auu lo In |lI92n|'|l".llI. algu. l.llI: I. lrlui-Ilb l9292l92B'92l l92.l'l Ulllllrllllllgu I. Ulllllv
know in this ease whether or not the President asked to see photo-
nrrahhs of this nature. but the point is. nobody said no and he eot them.
So the question is. where do you Ire the Burraus responsibility, and
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test, that we either put in the law or that Fiii aggiisi, iiiii PW
vents the White House from using police power in t way! _ _ _
M1-._ Amuse. I don't think Congress can _ever ll the responsibilityof trying to draw up %ulidelines, even in C0!l}l1DOl?1OIl with the executivebranch, to guarantee t. t all abuses wont take place. The organizationis made up of human beings, and these things occur. Certain corrective
actions are self-initiated, such as this. The resident, for instance, you
know wo had an incident a few years ago about irivestigatmg a_ news-
man, where we were requested and it I recall from our mfortnat1on,_wethouiht he was being considered for an appointed position whichwoul hare been a logical basis. As facts turned out, that was not theyurpose that the information was requested. To stem or at/on abuses
ike that, the President, the current administration, has issued sunroo-tione that any requests for investigations under the special inquiryor White House investigation su as for zgpointment must clearthrough the oice of his counsel, in other wo , not let the lower line
people come over and say we need this information or we need this
-request. They come through the oioe of Phil Buchen through anamlgloyee that is assigned to that oice with responsibility. _ow, we do still make certain name check requests for the White
House, and those, too. have to clear through his oice. So we do have
that. Then we have the responsibility, if we get something which on
its face appears political or improper, then our responsibility under
that would be to go to the Attorney General and ask him to intercede
by nding out is this s proper request on the Bureau. And I can assureiou, that as Mr. Kelley has testified and has made it perfectly clear.e has not had any such improper requests and he would 50 right
to the Attorney General if it was necessary. Otherwise he won d 1'¢]BCt
the request. -
Senator Scnwsmrzn. What ate are you taking to make sure thatwe catch some of these things in tli: present that ma. be we either over-looked or did not catch or somehow got sidetnckeci in the past?
l.!!r. An.1.r_rs. We have been working with the Attorney General and
his sta. It started even when Attorney General Saxbe was thew» tolook at all of our Erooedures, all of our investigative operations. Arethey pmierl Do t ey t criteria! Do we have a legal basis for themi
And we ave guidelines, committees which have been established in theDeisrtment, that meet every day on questions of the overwhelmingpro lern of collection and maintenance of information. What do we
get? Why do we get it! What should we do with itl
I feel there is a very active program going on in that regard, and
I feel certain that it will continue to make sure that we are aware of
everything and take agpropriate action.
Senator ScHwr.rxr.n. 1 wonder if you might share some of t
the sta so that we may have the advantage of taking a look
too.
. Mr. Annals. I would have to secure the a pi-oval of the AttorneyGeneral on the guidelines. He did tell the gilouse committee which
originally raised the question on maintenance of information. that
once we get something and they are nearing completion in the De-
partment, that he does intend to take it up with Congrw. So I u_n
sure there would be no problem at that point in bringing it to this
committee as well.
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Itaeaiiisltoiiic veai-isen,inuot wing carydened ii t.hink_ u
the crux of it. _ - -Mr.AnAirs.Tha-tistrue. I
&:i.-.mr Sc.=i*.=.'si::.-i Th.-.£.s all I have, Mr. C-heirm........-vs
Senatior Towriili. Mr. Adfams, what ugehgoee e Bureab; presently make 0 its inte igence in ormants, an re t y ever n used as
provocateurs or. as magnets for action!Mr. Amuse. No sir. _ "
Well, you asked two questions.Senator Town. Yes. ' _Mr. Aunts. Let me take the last one_ rst, pi-ovocateuis. _0_ur polighas not-or our policy has been to discourage any activities whiiii any way might im-o ve an_ informant doing sonnet ing that an agent.cannotndo, which would be an the areahgg being a1 provocatellff. V: N11_..sice.-.92' is B!"tll2"!!!£!!l.. .=92.n.. we --eve -..._ some e-.egst-ior-_s o- en_rep-ment coins up. ll-ii feel we have satisfactorily answered them. This is a
very technical legal eld which boils down, of course, to the fact thatif a person is willing to do omething, landntlie Go92'ernmentS:ie_iFlyprovides the opportunity t at is not ega _v entrapment. i aperson coma to 115 and I have been asked to participate 1_n I.
breali-in of a Federal building, I would iii-ie to help you, then the law
basically would indicate we have the authority to continue to let
operate. The question comes up if he assumes the whole direction
and causes people to do something which they would not otherwise have
done. That is the entrapment issue. So we are very alert to this. We
lieve instructions. clear guidelines in_sti'1.ict-ions teeiir eld oues
that they ae not to pee an infplrinaig. fOf,llg¬:l'li.I1g t.hat__ankagei_'itcannot ega y do. I on-"t say t ere avent n_ some mists es iiitinge regard. but I gpift know any ait the present time.nator Townii. t nator Hu leston
Senator Hiionnmrox. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. _ _First, I thinir to keep this activity in proper dperspective, it might
be Ava]! to l':tI:Ill!B_ll!8li th:g.e:92'ei'i]tl;iougl1 ehgreatsteal o¬1t!heke_st1m¬>lpgan ie qiie 1011111" ias n re a ing o e qiie ion 0 r. mg 1is by no means ah isolated situation._ Dr. Kings case is indded a
classic example, utilizing all of the various techniques of th_e Bureaii.
both in intelligence gathering, and action against an indlvidilnl in
order to discredit him or embarrass him, and indeed destroy him. iiut
the record is replete, and indeed, here is an entire sheaf of similar
targets who are certaiiily not as well known. Some of them are high
schlool sttudegts, sogie oggigtin are 8'cl'lOQll.::I.0l'lBI'8. college students,coege eac ers, roa ers an ]ournai s,peopewosenaines
would he aimost totally unfamiiiar to the vast majority of iimencaiis.S0 the ?Ctl92':!l]Y gas not conned to those that are immediately rec-
ognizabepu ic gures.
I want_to just proceed along the question of inforiiiaiits that Senator
-Tower just raised tor justfa moment or two. You say that your in-
formants arc not expected to do anything that 'an' agent liim'sclfco921ld
not do. In the gathering of information do you have any fcgiiardat all,fany rule as to howtthpninfopmaint proceeds in order to gathere in ormation you ii-re oo 'ng or
Mr. Aunts. Only that he proceed through legal means. _Se_nato_r_ Ht'niii..i:smiw. Is that specically stated to him when he is
employed! 4
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Mr.A.oa1ts.Yea,sir. - S _'$611853! Hunonrsioir. Are most intiizrmersdpaidtan the baisiupt Iregular eeorregularnlary orare ypai on basiso in-formation thei gather! , _ ,__ {Knaxa _ven those who are paid on_what you could say a nlarymar. saiary is oetermmeci on a CuD as to the rains ofjhs in
formation furnished. In other words, in a criminal ease for instanceyou oould have a person come in and glve you the identity of thre
mdividualstyvhodjust robbe%:kbta.°nk._ of; might pay; liiénida lgmi suinainoun an nevergo him. eseeuriy e wen
informants do nally manage to work into a revolutionary typi0;gl.lllZli;lO11, their eontinuzd activities on our behalf do set up mori
o a program or paynien' Senator Himouzsioit. If information that may be supplied to yoi
happens to be of a sensational nature or of a surprising nature, di
you ever question the infoi-iner on how he obtainpd . l _
f Hr. gs.-iii. I ¬.;;_siie-:5: ihoiéiiifiitfiifi. Indany nan .-rfig r:ihitii;']orman ove as in peri 0 ime,you 0 avea p _they dont rst come in and say Joe Blow said this. Joe Blow_did thatThere is a conversation that goes_through, which I feel certain would
if it looked like he had somethmg that came from mme_imprope
source, I think the agent would say, When did you get this?
S_enator Humnmmn. you found it had been taken improperl;25' If, some improper action had been taken, would it be put in th
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Mr. Annie. If he violated the law, we would have an open iiivestiga
tion if it were within our jurisdiction.
Senator Htinnnss-sex. New the Bureau disseminates this info:-inatiot
on individuals that is collected in various ways. How many othe
agencia can requat, for instance, an individual check that _woul;result your supplying to it information from these personal intelli
genoe es
Mr. Aunts. Every agent in the Federal Government under the eirsloyee security irogi-am has an obligation to checl: with the FBIdoing name choc search at ll:.1T ls topee if there is any §ul!_92'Bl'il;lerogatory in ormation ii" ic mig t mi itate against appointing i
individual to a Federal position. _Senator Hi:mni.ns'roi~i. Do you take any precautions as to how thewill % that information once it is soplpi to them by your agengMr. Annie. All we do is indicate to t em on the report that it is 4
property of Iiihe FBI and i_si?not :10 be diSSBI!llnl.iJ;dkt:tSl§B their agenc;Senator U'DDI.!8'I'DIN'- u avenowayo owingweerinot indeed it is! _ O u
Mr. Annals. No, air, we do not. n _ _
Senator Hnnnuzsroi-r. Whatinternal precautions do you have againthe B_ur§au itself misusing information that it gains from othi
nciesgilt. Anaxs. Strong prohibitions. First, we dont allow aeeess 1les except on a need-to-know basis. Any employee of_the FBI_ know
tho if he improperly divulge; inform.-.tion or .eoi-:s information oiof the les, lie will be subject to administrative action. We hadease where an agent obtained an identication reeord and made it oi
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ilnproserly, and I think that agent was egiarated from the rolls. Butwe ha as ed, and of course we share in IAe request to_thia extent,
that there be a criminal penalty attached to misuse of mfonna_tio_n
and leaking it or making it available outside of an agency. This is
mother issue before Congress. . _Senator Huonimsmw. There is also an instance t.hat the ccmmittee
has evidence of, where the Bureau at least proposed taking mforina-
tion gained from the Intemal Revenue Service and drafting a letter,
a fraudulent letter, over a forged signature of a civil rights leader,
mailing it to the contributors of that organisation indicating that there
was some tax problem and hoping to discourage further contribu-
tions. Did this in fact happen, to your knowledge?
Mr.Anaiaa.Iamnotfamiliarwit.btha.tcaae.IcaneasiJy eayit
would not be proper.Senator Hunnnasmiw. But you dont know whether it happened or
whether the act was carried out!
Mfr. Amine. I do not know. / ' A
Senator I'IUDD1.!.B"l'0IN. Mr. Adams, getting on to motherone of the techniques used very frequently ha] the Bureau m itsattempt to discredit individuals was to utihze e press. It was cus-
tomary to send anonymous letters on many occasions to editors, broad-casters, commentators, and columnists around the count? containinginformation, or suggesting information, about an indivi ual that 'the
Bureau wanted to discredit in some way. There is also some evidence
that the Bureau utilized within the press itself, on a regular contact
basis, certain columnists or broadcasters for the purpose of disseminat-
ing information that the FBI wanted to get out about individuals.How extensively was this utilized!Mr. Anaars. d0nt believe it was very extensive. In fact, I think
there were probably very few incidents where untrue information
was put out. That is my recollection. On disseminating public source
information there were a number of instances of that which is still
proper to date under our guidelines. I dont know of many in-
stances where untrue information was used, and I do not know of too
many instances overall where that was done.Senator Hnnunssron. Do you know of any instances--how many
actual journalists or practitioners were regular disseininators of FB
informationl
Mr. Anaus. I dont know of any today that are, in that regard.I know there have been situations where it hap ned and people stilldo. They come to us and say, we would like to 5:: an artic e on orga-nized crime. Can you be of assistance! And if we can be of amistance
within the guide ines established by the Attorney General, we doamist. We have a pull and a tunover privacy acts and freedom of
information and also the need to ow, but we try to satisfy.Senator Huontnsron. Dogou lmow of any at the present time or inthe Fast who have been pai liy the FBI for their services!
L r. ADAMS. Not personally. dont know of any.
Senator Hn>oi.rs'ro.92'. Not personally! Do you know of any evidence
that indicates that I
Mr. Amara. That: what I mean. I dont have any evidence that
indicates that.
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"Senator Hpnnnaaaox. I think it would be helpful to our inqniijy ii
we could review, or you would review, the les and make a determina-
tionastowhetlierornotitmigh.tbcthecase,thatthcFillhalpaidwho are amenable to dimeminating information supplied
_Mr. Anazira. I am told we have. I dont know what les we have re-
viewed, but we have reviewed them and we havent found any.
Senator HUDDLESTON. You haveift found any. What is the mas
media program of the FBI? _
Mr. Amine. To try to t the truth out, to get a roper icture ofthe FBI: jurisdiction, itsgfztivities. P P
Senator Hvnnnrsron. ls it also to suppress other publications or
other commentators or journalists who might be other
views! .
Mr. Annie. No. _
Senator Hvooiasmx. Did the FBI not take some action against a
number of newspapers, most of them student newspapers that theythought should be suppressed! -
Mr. Anams. We may have in the past. I don't recall any specic case.
Xpu are talking about some of the Weatherinan support papers orBlack Panther pager. I don't know of any in that regard, but Pm
not saying that suc action was not taken.d SQIll10lIH:L'DDLE8'l0.92'. Are you familiar with the special correspon-
ence ist
Mr..Apaus. Yes. '
Senator Hnnotssron. TVhat is this list! -
Mr. Amine. My recollection is that the special correspondence list
was a list of individuals that had requested from time to time various
Bureau publications and were kept on a continuing list and such com-
munications were mailed to them.
Senator Hcnninsmx. It was a list that was considered to be friendly
towards the FBI view!f _Mr .nAna:ua. Yes. I would say anyone on that list would normally be
rien y. .
Senator Hvonmismx. D0 you have knowledge of a number of in-
stances in which the Bureau carryin out its COINTELPRO ac-tivities utilized the existing press in onier to attempt to discredit some
individual!
Mr. Aunts. I dont have an idea of the number, but I dont think
there were very many. _
Senator Htnnuzsrox. Do you have a list of the instances in which
the Bureau attempted to discredit other p!!l_IllQ!iil¬_ll.!_8!
Mr. ADAMS. No; I dont know.
Senator I-I1'nni.ss'noi92*. Do you know that they did occur!
Mr. Anaua. I can ask. I get, No, as far as any knowledge in that
rd.rqénator I-Ii:nni.1:s'roar. As far as knowledge.
Mr. Anizns. That nu-ans knowledge of what we have come up with
in ourcurrent review, I would assume.
Senator Hi.-nni.r.s-m.92-. It seems to me that this is an arcs. in _which
we are particiilaijlv troubled and rightly should be. If there is anyright that is specifically called for in our Constitution, and has been
iipnclil and in court daisies after mart decisicn, it is the
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ri ht to publish in this country. The rst amendment speaks not onlyof freedom of speech, but also freedpm of the ress. And yet it seemsthat we have a pattern here of the chief law eniiircement agency of the
country attempting to suppres that very right. '
Mr. An.92_:rs. I havent_seen-I think any eort _to manipulate thepress of this country, I yust dont see any possibility in that regard,
and I dont see the logic of anyone even attempting such.
Senator Htnnnzsrox. But it did happen. _ -Mr. Amara. It may hare happened mi ~* '
Senator Hcnouzsrox. In a rather extensive eld. '
Mr. Amara. I disagree with that rather extensive eld. I just dont
know the extent that you are talking to here.
Senator IIt'nm.i:.s'rox. '0 are talking about the cases where--
Mr. Aoaus. Are you lumping in cases where we disseminated public
source information? Are you lumping in a case where we may have
gone to a--- 1
Senator Ht=not.ns-nos. I think disseminating ublic source informa-tion is somewhat dierent from furnishing a ¥'V commentator with
derrogatory information about a specic individual. who has been
targeted as one that apparently the Bureau thinks is dangerous or
that his ideas ought to be suppressed.Mr. Amara. Is that manipulating the press, thought Heredyou harea situation where an individual is going around the country a vocatingoil-the-pig or kill-the-police or something like that. And a newspaper-
rnan was fumished, say some background information on him w ich
would have been in the area of public source material which he could
use in an article. Are we really, if the information is true, the nal
decision, it would seem to me, would be the newspaperman as to
whether he would use an such information. ' -I think if we concealhd our motives from the newspapennan, or
furnished false information. which I think we did in one anonymous
letter or something that I saw in all of this, I would say that was
mgemper.nator Htoouzsrox. Or-~ .
Mr. .-toasts. I think newsmen have sources. I think-
Senator Hvoou:s1'o:~=. Or convincing a cartoonist, for instance, to
draw a derogatory cartoon about a college professor who certainly did
not constitute a threat to the violent overthrow of the Government.
Mr. Aunts. If anyone accuses us of having any great succem in try-inght-o inuence the press, I think that their objectivity stands very
12
Senator Hrrinuze-rox. I think the point is not whether there was
auccm or not. there was an effort made. Pm glad to hear you acknowl-
edge now that it is almost an impossibility. But more than that it
seems to me at the beginning when these type of techniques were used,
it seemed to indicate a lack of condence. or faith in the American
people_to believe that they could not hear ideas that might be con-
trary to their own without being seriously damaged. One of the great
freedoms we hnve is the freedom of hearing other ideas. whether we
agree with them or not. I think this is an area that we_are concerned
with and one technique which I hope is being discontinued and pne
that will be, by the time these hearings conclude, and by the time
proper legislationisdrawn. c 92 ' -
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_Hr. _Annu. Well, I think you can be assured that any each tech-mgues in that area died with COINTEL_P.RO in 1971.
tor Hunouaa-roar. That is comforting.
Mr. A.nnu. Yea. | e '
'I'92L- u.---._. F-.__-:.'I¬..-.1 l'I1.__l- _.._... .-_a.c- 1' I-_<-_ R-4-Auu vain:-nlann tyaunauula nail-ran Jl-I'll, ucl-Illa-M .a ulvv I-new-Iiorced in and out by virtue of. votes and other committee busines. I
am not sure which Senators have had their opportunity to question
and which have not. _
"Senator Goldwater,were on next! ' .Senator Gonnwanzl. I wgl not take much time. I apologize for not
haw been here in the last 2 days. It is well, I have heard. Wehavemgeard testimon regarding the rcoulmnous records, I believe500,000, maintained hy the Bureau. How in your view have these
records come to be kept! For what purpose have they been kept, andhas thie Bureau ever undertaken to destroy or prune clown any of these
IVIXJIT-I5! '
Mr. Analcs. We have a number of records. We are a businlike
grgianization. Wle reoéard ougealctivities. Arab: as tl: Slilrdkllwg, tlliey a accesstoaoto recor materiat tistep ucto wat
the FBI has dine ove:' thegealrs. gVheri] we conduct an investigaltion,we maintain t artmuts. e o ave mtruction nrocedures w em.
after the passage of certain time limits approved by the Archives
authority, we are allowed to destroy certain les. Other informationwe are required to put. on microlm. There is a regular standarctl?J>ro-
oedure for the destruction of FBI les. This has been suspend , of
course, during the initiation of these_ hearings and our les probably
nave increased consmerabl curing this nod because we are not ai-lowed to destroy anythingysince the conlirenittee commenced its hear-
ings. But we do have procedures for destruction of les. They areapfpr-oved_ by the Archives. A pg-oblem inherent in that is rnaintninmg
in c@~:c~:92i:.=:h:"*i."= ?." %..i.i.".§.§;?consistent in recording 8VBl?YIl'llIlg we thought was relevant to_theinvestigation. The passage o the Privacy Act-put certain restrictionsin. We cannot collect or maintain anything u ess it is relevant to an
ongoin matter of which we have investigative jurisdiction.But Eeyond even the Privacy Act, the Attorney General instituted
a guidelines committee in this area that we have been meeting dill-
gently with every day and hopefully have tried to avoid this idea
that we are for no good reason maintaining gossip, scandal, unneces-
sary, and irrelevant material. So once these guidelines are in some sort
of nal form, not to be adopted. then the Attorney General has indi-
wtsd that he is @ir.g to take it up with the -carious mhgreonal
to get their input into it, after which they will be
pu is
Senator Gomwa-rm. Well, now these dossiers, I think you can call
them that probably.Mr.fAn.92.92érs. I prefer not to, but I accept the fact that that is how they
are re erre to.
Senator Gomwxrnn. What do you call them!
Mr. Annie. I call thern les. To me, I guess we all have our little
hang-ups, but to me that is usually used in some sinister connotation.It ie probably not to you. But I will use whatever terminology you
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dSe_natorGouiwa'rn.Ihope whatyouhaveonmeianotmlledaomer.Mr. Anaarls. No, sir _its a collection of material.rrlnnaarnl nun afar ,,_.,..,..... ... ..... -......,Mr. Annie. If which you are aware. _ _Senator GOLDWATEIL That: right. Now let me ask you, the informa-
tion you have would probably be on computer tape
Mr. Aoiurs. No, sir. i
Senator Gomwivrza. Ita not. Information that IRS would have,
isthat computerized? _ _ _ _Mr. Aoaias. It may be. I'm not familiar with the extent of theirs.
We do have certain computer activities, such as the National Crinie
Information Center, or we have. I guess, 7 or 8 m1lll0!1 records. This
is not the usual le material. This consists of individuals concerning
r.-horn a warrant is 6iii.'592"i'ifii, stolen promrty, material sucli. as
this, and also some documented criminal history information in the
nature of prior arrest history. but not what I think you are referring
to in the way of le material, reports, intelligence, this type of
information.
Senator GOLDWATER. Wiiat I am trying to get at. is there a central
source of computerized material that would include your information.
the information that IRS may have gathered. information that had
been gathered off of personnel records of the Pentagon!
Mr. Annie. No, sir. - .
Senator Gomwarsa. Theres no such list that you know of!
Mr. Annie. I dorft imoir What other agencies have, but the FBI
does not have such a list, does not have such capability to interface
with such a list, if such a list exists. . -
Senator G0lDWA'PEl. Do you feel rather safe _in sag then that
no agency of Government has put together such a computerised total
of all the information on the people that you have surveilled!
Mr. Anaiis. Oh, I think it is safe to say I dont know of any. Today
I am not saving what does exist or doesn't exist elsewhere.
Senator Gomwivrzn. In addition to the 500.000 records that you
have, would I be correct in saying that you have 50 million data cards
and that there's $32 million spent on intelligence in the scal year
i975 to maintain this library?
Mr. ADAMS. No; I doift think that is correct. I think the gure of
$82 million is what our budget people have drawn up as being the
total cost in a given year of our intelligence operations, security,
criminal. organized crime, the whole intelligence eld. But I dont
relate it to the maintenance of any data cards.
Senator Goi.nu'.92'i'sii. Now one other area. and I think it probably,
according to the records. goes back to 1970. How did the Bureau
come to place the so-called I92omen's Lib movement under surveillance.
and I say so-called because I think we discovered that there was no
such ozanizcd movement. _ _ _ _Mr. An.92mI. There were n lot of movements. It is my recollection-
I have not reviewed the le in detail, but it is my recollection that
the case was originally opened because of indications that certain
r_roups were attempting to inltrate or control the Womena Libera-
tion movement. The investiention was conducted and was terminated
several years ago, as far as I know.
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@ . Q in. I I av I a a Inai:-senator uoanwarn. uo you mow or any aeuom tnar. were taaen
by the Bureau as to the u'omens liberation movement except to
monitor it! _Mr. Annie. No. And the monitoring was for the purpose of de-termining the inltration, and I don know of any actions taken
laminar. f. om
Senator Gomwane. Thats all I have, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.The Cnamxan. Thank n, Senator Goldwater. _Senator Hart, have you d an ogiportunity to queattonl _
Senator Ham of Colorado. No; have not. o _
'1'heC11a1§aaax.S9n§torHart.___ _ __ __ _ _ 4_Senator Han-r of Colorado. Thank yon, Mr. Unairman. 1n the
testimony yesterday developed by the stall concerning the last fewdays of Martin Luther K.ings hfe, we learned that the Bureau in
_Mai-eh of 1968 developed information to be given to the prm criticiz-
mg Dr. King for staying in a white-owned and operated hotel, the
Holiday Inn in Memphis, inste.-id of the Lorraine.
At some point during Dr. Kings stay in Memphis, he moved from
the Holiday Inn to Lorraine. To your knowledge. Mr. Adams, was
that information ever given to the press? [See footnote p. 21.]
M1-.A1>.~ms. I have been unable to determine that. This question was
raised to mo by the Civil Rights Division of the Department. Appar-
ently, they had had some inquiry along the same lines several months
ago. But my recollection of it at the time, we saw that this action hadbeen groposed and the memorandum bore the initials, I believe it
was t e initials, statement handled, and the initials of the agent in
the external aairs division who assumed the responsibility of saying
handle it and initiated it. They contacted him and he mid that he
had no recollection of the matter but the fact that he did sav. handled
didnt mean that he was able to do anything with it. He was just
clearing that memorandum so it would show action was taken, and
he doesnt know if he gave it to anyone or not.
Senator I-Iairr of Folomdo. Well. sullice it to say that the facts are
that subsequent to the time the Bureau developed this information
to pass on to the press. it did appear in the local papers in Memphis.
Mr. Amine. There was some statement in the local papers, not
according to the terminology of the proposed statement that was to
be given to him. There was some comment made. if I recall, that
Martin Luther Hing gave s press conference following the riots that
followed one of his appearances. and that he gave that pras conference
in a hotel, the Holiday Inn Hotel. But it didn't have any. at least the
newspaper article itself didnt have any direct relation to acts taken.
Senator I-Lurr of Colorado. Well. according to some historians and
peonle who have commented on the circumstances. they were fairly
exvlicit in stating that the local press was critical of him during that
period of slaving in the white hotel. but I don't want to make a big
Issue out of that. l92hnt was the name of the agent that _vou talked to!
Mr. Aunts. I didnt talk to him personally. People in the Bureau
that were workiiigg on this did and T believe his name was Linhauzh.
enatnr T-i'.921rrr of "clot-ado. if you could provide that name to us.
I would amireciate it. _
Mr. Anaxs. I would be glad to.
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Senator I-Lurr oi Colorado. Mr. was any eort made duringthis entire COIN 'll'lLPl{ ! period to objectively dene what the New
Leit meant! What. was your understanding oi the New Iaestt-" _
Mr. Amara. They did have a denition o_f the New _Left_d.ist;rngu.1ah-ing it from the Old Left. It was primarily to distinguish it m_t.hearea that the New Left was trying to separate itself from thelold indie-
hound poiicies of the Party or some of its to tne
Communist Party. Perhaps Mr. Wannall has a better demtiou of
Senator I-Ian of Colorado. It very deniteiy included those whowere opposed to the war, organized groups that opposed the war and
~fnlI. arlrnncrlv lhnut r-nail inirrldiinn in thin rn1LI!§!'927'- 9131.11!!! Lil; _"- -'-'7-av é-C?" -1"'.i- ---I -'i-__' -_ --3 7" J ' I-"_ it
nist Party aside.
Mr. Ansxs. People involved in the New Left movement Item, of
course, also involved in the anti-Vietnam war eort.Senator Han of Colorado. What do an mean also! Thats what Pm
trying to get out. 92Vhat was the New ft? If you didn't oppoee_ the
war and vou werenlt involved in civil rights groups, who else rmgnt
you haveheenl _ _Mr. Annals. llfell, the New Left did involve a revolutionary philos-
ophy. It 92vasnt related solely to the anti-Vietnam effort.Senate: I-I.-urrkof Colorado. Thomas Jeerson embodied a revolu-I';l92nna~1rr92 ~I nasnh 1!UIUIIIIIIJ tlllll92-I1! IIJO Mr. Amara. 'lrhats right. And the New Left activity exceeded Thom-
as Je'ersons philosop y in that it did t in with the basic Commu-
nist philosolghy.Senator an of Colorado. Every grou that was placed under theeorts ogf the COINTELPRO supported go violent. overthrow of this
country .
Mr. Anaus. The concept of OIl92'TFJ..PRO 9292-as. directed toward
those organizations. I would have to refresh my memory on each one
of the organizations that were targets of it. but they were basically
Nevv Left, Communist Party. Social llforkers Party, black extremists,
white hate groups, these were the ve hasia
Senator Ham of Colorado. The Southern Christian Leadership
Conference!
Mr. Anaars. The Southern Christian Leadership onfer-em:e, I dont
know if it was involved specically in COINTELPRO. Three minor;ctions were taken against the Southern Christian Leadership Con-
er-enoe
Senator I-I.-urr of Colorado. Well. its leader, I think you could say. for
B vears was subject to a lot more than three minor actions.
Mr. Amara. That's right, and that gets into the other area that the
activities taken against him were primarily COINTELPRO-type
activities but *92ver-en't really under the control of--
Senator Ham of Colorado. Youre saying that basically every orga-__,_ , __._ I V_ - ff Ag -i. =-Q. _; r. ;-- ; .| ._ . ' _I___' "~_"_'- * -- '__ _'.- - -._k_= a_- _ '.- _~_ ;__ ._.----.---~ - ~ -+- ---t- --I» --st. ;1|.-:"'-_-.-'-"5.
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Mr. Aunts. It depends on where you are in relation to what is takingplace. If there are s lot of activities in connec;'.ion Pith stat. demon-
strations that are not violent and there are a ot o street monstra-tions that have resulted in shun, so it just depends on the activity
taking place and the circumstances. Our problem is we are given the
responsibility by the Attorney General to monitor demonstrationswhich have the potential of violence. The question is, how do you nd
out, at what point do you get in any monitor demonstrations to deter-
mine if that has a potential violence? _ _
Sonstoiill-Li;-r o¬hColc{92ra<%_ci£92'eH, Obmély we haw; received F1-mon . to t e e ect at t e went out o its way to oment vio enceitsell; to encourage disruptions internally, to encourage hostilities andconict between and among these groups in the hope that violence
would occur. Therefore you could go bac to the Director or the pressor whomever and say, look, this is a violent §nnp. 4Milt. hnaiiés. I actiept phle allegation but_ d_ont ;0O6pil_E1ll.lfl0_ fact. Thecone usion, rom W iat iave seen in reviewing t ese es in connec-
tion with our investigations, is that we dont foinent violence. We dont
permit as a _mattei- of policy our inforinants to act as provocateurs to
engage in violence. .I ain not denying it may have happened, but the
FBI doa not foment violence, and the I_3BI, you know, has no
Senator I-Lurr of Colorado. You are using present tense verbs. _Mr. ADA3IS- 92Ve did;it then. I!dont agree that our actions in anyevent were esigned to oment vio ence.
_ Senator Ham" of Colorado. I think there is plenty of documenta-gon of the itcmpt to set the Black Panthers against. the Blackstone
an rain iicago.Mii-lb Amine. Well, I dont consider that plenty of evidence. I think
the evidence to the contrary is that one of the organizations, when we
got word that the Blaclt Panthers versus _United Slaves. we notiedthe local ]p0llC8 that this activity was going to take place. and theindividua , so thgt we would prevelpt H110 killing,-. 19292'l!lCl';hlI.d coime toour attention an was going to ta e p ace an t icn t e turn ownsof gartiiius gOIl92'TELPO antigens. tll6e!;b92::a!8 5p60.iChS1Ilfel'lllE]1_t8 ma e iat t is action wi not approx" use it mig t resu t. inharrnito an individual, physical harm. and we have no indica_t ion from
any of these actions itndcr COI.92'TELPl_1O that any violent actocurged, and I have not been presented with any by the sta from
t eir ar more extensive inquiry.
Senator I-Iiurr of Colorado. June 3. 1968. a memorandum from the
special agent in cliaz-ge_of Cincinnati to the Director of the FBI.
captioned Counterintelligence Program, Disruption of the NewLeft, l_92 ve-page memorandum having: to .do_ with Antioch allegean lzlrilio [3xh'iIl_i}ilt 30f]. It is a longddtescription of tlge t-etllegeac ' onn . ere is a recoirunen a ion on page : .incin I
recommends that coiinterintelligcnce actinn_ lie_taken to_ expose thepsendointellectual image of Antiocli. and it gives specic ways of
doing that, tlicn the next pa,-zc. page 4. the desired result of action.
fforcc Aiitiocli to defend itself as an educational institution. 92Vhere
in the laws of this country or the charter of the Federal Bureau of
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Investigation does it say that that agency should be forcing any
educational institution to defend itself?
Mr. Aunts. I know of none.
Senator H.92n-r of Colorado. You would say this is stepping beyd
the bounds of your authority? .
Mr. ADAIB. I would say-Im not familiar with the total action
of what was there, but just on the surface I dont see any basis for it.
Senator HART of Colorado. It is my understanding that eld
ollicera participating in COINTELPRO activities were required to
send results in status letters and in annual reports Is that correct!
Mr. Aunts. Yes.
Senator Halrr of Colorado. _What kind of results generally were
you looking for? What was considered success!
Mr. Aunts. Well, it would be considered success, if in one instance
an action was taken to create factionalism in the highest level of
the Communist Partv, and the results were that we were advised
that the Communist Party inuence declined appreciably as a direct
result of factionalism created at that level. That to us was a concreteresult. We had other results that you get in various delgrees. The above
is an extremely favorable degree. 9292'e had others, think one was
alluded to vesterday or today where a letter went out setting upmarital strife on the part of someone. I dont see an basis or just_1ca-
tion for that. I think that is the other extreme. I t ink in the middle
there were ones that fell into a dienent degree. The only thing that
I feel is we had 3.000 actions recommended. I dont know if the docu-
ment shows whether this Antioch one was approved or not. I doubt
that it was anproved.Senator Iiurr of "olorado. I believe it was. 9292'e can document that.
Mr. Aunts. OK. Because there would be one. I would say that the
judgment in approving is in question. But out of 3,000 recommended.
the fact that 9,000 approved shows that there was some concern to try
to keep these to a proper level, and I think the actual number of
grossly improper activities fortunately is rather small. I think there
are a lot in there. The whole program, we feel. should have been dis-
continued, and we dont have a program like it now, and we wouldnt
institute a program like it now. .
Senator HART of Colorado. It would be helpful to us if now or in
the future you wuld raouuuend what steps we should take. we as1the committee and this Congress, to make sure that doesn t happen,
aside from just the assurances we are being given here.
Mr. Anaus. Well. the main recommendation I make is that we dont
_wind up on the point we have been on in the past years. that one time
Ill our history Congress is saying we ought to be doing something to
atop violence in the streets, murders, blowing up of buildings; and
at another time they are saying you shouldnt have done what you
did. and that we make a mistake when we react and try to identify one
area and say that is the voice of the people. What we need is a legis-
lative mandate which is the will of Congress in order to tell us what
our roie shouiti be in this area. I think that the main thing that would
come out of all of this, I hope, is some more denitive guideline
where we all know what the will of the people is as expressed by
Congress.
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Senator Ham of Colorado. I believe my time ia up. _Senamr Toms. ["re..si-:1ing}= Mn Adan; to return to the businen
of informants which I and was interrupted by a vote, who
selects an informant! _ _Mr. Annie. The basic responsibility is on our special agent per-
sonnel who develop informants, the agent on the street. _
Senator Tow-ni. Does the special agent in charge in a gi _
have control over the activities of an informant or a veto on
of a particular informant!Mr. Loans. Not only the sppcial agent in charge, but FB_I head-quarters. We maintain the tig test pomible control of the utilization
of informants. We require Bureau approval to utilize a person as an
informant.
Senator Town. The special agent in charge has the power to -veto
the use of an informanti '
Mr. Anna. Yes. sir.
Senator Towns. Does headquarters lmow who all the informants are!
Hr. but-s. Abs-oliitel;,'. We do not allow iiip=%et inior"92.....lnts. We
requii'e- '
Senator Towns. You dont have the agents informed by their own
special informnntsi . _ .
Mr. Annie. Absolutely not. .
-Senetor Towns! lire the criteria dilferent for paid and for rionpaid
informers!
Mr. Amine. We have some informants over the years that have re-
fused to accept payment, but generally the criteria for both. I mean
for onm that are paid, is that it must be on a c.o.d. basis, evaluated
as to the value of the information. L _
Senator Towns. What protections are afforded to informants?
Mr. Aunts. Protections aorded them individually!
Senator Toweii. Ya.
Mr. Acme. The greatest protection in the world we can aord them
is to maintain the oondential relationship which they have adopted
with the FBI. and the fact that those citizens of the United States
who, for whatever reason, decide to cooperate with the FBI and
cooperate with their Government in the criminal and security eld.
have that condentiality maintained. Beyond that condentiality
we are unable to aord them any protection, any physical protection.
We have had infomients niiirdered throiigli ¬!i.$¬i¬§.2'!'B-= We have had
them suhiected to other violence and criminal activities, and the only
protection beyond maintaining the condentiality is once we have
used them or had to expose them for some urpoee, we do have pro-cedures for relocation and maintenance oi! them. which is utilised
quite frequently in the top hoodlum and the Cosa Nostra-type inves-
tigutionaSenator lmvi:ii. It is my understanding now that 83 percent of all
cases iI1920i928 some use of informants, so that moans that the use is
pretty widespread and apparently very essential. What kind of guid-
anoedoee the FBI give to these _i_nformantsl Do you giv-e_ them anyspecial training? Could you describe that irind of relationship in terms
of guidelines, control, authority that you have! __
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Mr. Aoznrs. Well, when an individual is being developed as an in-
formant, our main concern is whether he provides reliable infonnation
and that the information he collects is_collected by_ legal means. We
dont permit an informant to engage in any activity that an agent
ccfml}:int do legallfiir himself. In othervords, you ca3t}lli:ve an ea-tensioai0 tea ntout ereen 'n ini ega acts,an t agentsaymg'abide bygrhe law. This crgdgels gems problems, of course, in the eriminil
eld w ere you dont recruit informants from Snnda schools. Yourecruit informants in areas where they do have knowledge of criminal
activities. But we even had to open investigations and prosecute some
of our informants. because we do not bend from this. that they arenot gtgin to enjoy favorite status as a result of their relationship with
us. t e agent covers all of this with an informant during the
discussions.
VVB secure background information on the informants. We do this
to insure, as as possible? we are dealinir with _a reliable, stable in-dividual even though he may be eiigapid in an unstable activity.We go through this period and consider t em more or less. in different
terminology, probationary, potential. verifying information that he
furnishes us, and everytime when they report on the status of an in-
formant. they have to tell us what percentage of his information has
been veried by other means, by other informants or sources. So we
do have a continuing indoctrination which is supervised at FBI
headquarters.Senator Town. You said you dont recruit our informants fromunday school class. Being an ex-Sunday schoolyteacher, I resent that,
iit-._..--
_ Mr. .A.n.urs. I am talking in the criminal eld. Many of our security
informants come from a very ne background. . '
Senator Towns. But this leads me into this. Sometimes, then, you
might recruit ple that you know have committed criminal acts.lift. Amine. math true. _ _ p _ _
_ Senator Towsn. Do you promise him immunity from future prosecu-
tion in many instances to secure their cooperation I
Mr. Amurs. No. Now, the only exception to that would be we may
have an ongoing, it is what you call an informantI believe your
question is addressed to someone that we are actually considering in an
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Mr. Annie. We obtain access without warrant.
Senator Towm. Without warrants! _ '
Mr. Annals. Yes, air.
&netcr Tcws.-:. Is the subjec.-*- nctiiied in edvense by the FBI 21%
you obtain one without a warrant!
Mr. Amara. No, sir. .
Senator Towns. Are they notied by the bank, or is he notied aub-saiently by the FBI! '
Z r. Loans. No. We do get subpenasin many cases, not warrants,
bntwedogetsubpenasin manycases,butinsomecasesabanIrwi1lmake available to us records without subpena. Wlmn it comes time
for utilizing that information we do 185116 a suhpena for the
information.
Sefiatfr Town. Do you have legal authority to gain access to these
IQJIIUDIMr. Anane. Yes, sir, we do. ' '
Senator Towns. Without a subpena, without a court document!
Mr. Anaias. There is no law that I know of that forbids us access.
There have been several court decisions, including some circuit
courts that disagree with each other, but I think the current nding is
that the bank records are the records of the bank and this doo_s not
violate any rst amendment or other ainendments in connection with it.
Senator TOWER. Do you make similar requests of S. & L.s and others,
and credit unions and other nancial institutions! _
Mr. Amara. I would assume the same would provide there.
'1'he Cm-uTaiai~i [presiding]. Think you, Senator Tower. _
I just have a question or two. We are going to try to_conclude this
morning because the committee has at hearing, it business meeting at
2 o'clock this afternoon and for the information of the members. that
meeting will take lace in room 3110 of the Dirlrsen Senate OiceBuilding. And whii!e I am making announcements, I think I should
say that tomorrow between the hours of 9 ocloclt in the morning and
1 o'clock in the afternoon, the committee will report its ndings and
make its recommendations to the Senate in connection with our in-
vestigation into alieged involvement of the United States in certain
amassination plots, and attempts directed against foreign leaders.
The committee, as you know, has made an exhaustive investigation
of this issue. It has taken some 6 months, T5 witnemes have been inter-
nog-ated, over 8.000 pages of testimony have been taken, mountains
of documents have been analyzed and digested, and the report will
be a detailed accounting to the American people of that evidence,
together with the ndings end recommendations of the coniinittee.
Initially these disclosures will be made to the Senate in secret session,
after which the rcnort will be made public as previously improved by
committee vote. Therefore. it is anticipated that at 2:30 tomorrow
afternoon in this room. the caucus room. following that secret session
of the S_r-mite. t_lic cominittee will meet with the press for the purpose of
answering such questions as the nress may wish to address to the
committee on the assassination report. i
Now. the last few questions I would like to put to you. Mr. Adams.
have to do with some confusion in my mind concerning the nurnoee
of the FBI in monitnrinz the wnmei liberation movement. What
was the pom of that snrveill.-.nce! V-hj,' were you involved in
monitoring that movement!92
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Mr. Annie. It was basically, as I recall, I have not reviewed theles, but from the information that I have ii-OCY.1l!Bi_I, it would indicatethere were groups that were believed to be in tratng and_ attemptingtt extort control over it. That investigation was b or nutiated on
is act.
The Crismauur. But you never found, did you, that the Womena
Liberation Movement was mrioiisly inltrated, inuenced, or controlled
by Communists. ' _Mr. Aunts. No, and the case was closed. I would put them in thegsition of comments we have made earlier about t e prom, that Iont think anyone is going to dominate or control. That is a very
independent group. _The Cimmanm. Well, we are trying to keep the country that way.
Mr. Anals. Thats right. _ _The CHAIRMAN. And the kind oi thing tha_.t_disturbs me is what
the documents reveal. If you will turn to exhibit T.
Mr. Annts. Yes. _The Cmmms. Then, if you will turn to where you nd the ca_p;1on
Origin, Aims, and Purposes. a description of the Womens Li ra-
tion Movement in Baltimore, Md. I call your attention to this because
it seems to typify the whole problem of this generalized kind of sur-
veillance over the activities of American citizens. Here is the report.
If you will read with me this paragraph :
The women: liberation movement in Baltimore. Md. began during the summer
ol 1968. There was no structure or a parent organization. There were no rules
or plans to go by. It started out as a group therapy session with young women
who were either lonely or conned to the home with small children. getting
together to talk out their problems. Along with this they wanted a purpose
and that was to be tree women from the humdrum existence of being only a wife
and mother. They wanted equal opportunities that en have in work and in
society. They wanted their husbands to share in the housework and in rearing
their children. They also wanted to go out and work in whatever kind oi Jobs
they wanted. and not be discriminated against as women.
Now, can you nd anything in that report that in any way suggests
that these women were engaged in improper or unlawful activity?
Mr. Annals. Not in that one. I believe there was another report,
though, giving the origin of it. which went into a little more descrip-
tion of what our basic interest was.h.The Cnamatsx. Can you tell me, because this is the report I
ve.
Mr. Amara. Well. I am g'i92'EIl here-
The CIIATRJI.-92.92. 92V1iat- other. if there was some sinister activity eon-
nected with this group that isnt laid out in the d0cument--
Mr. Aussie. I was given a workpaper here which read:
Women! Liberation Movement. Investigation of captioned movement waa
inltated by our New You-Ii Oice in April 1069, as the Women; Lib-her movement
is described as a loosely structured women's movement comprised oi individuals
with varylna ldeoioizles from liberal to New Left persuasion. some of whom had
exhibited an aiiiliatinn with and/or sympathy tor several organizations oi investi-
ltlve interest to this Bureau: namely. the Students for a Democratic Society.
Black Panther Party. the Vietnam Peace Parade Committee. TeneereosRllllle. the Bdllllt Work ! Plrll. with its youth group the Young Socialistlift. -
The CHAIRIIIAN. M I st t this ' tiMr. Annie. Yes. y up you pom1-
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_The Cajmrax. You are readingfrom a_ paper which has to dowith the origination of an investigation coming out of New York, are
on notI Mr.A.naa|:s.Yes. _
The Cannons. I am reading from a document that relates to the
W'omens Liberation Movement in Baltimore, and the ndings eon-
eerning it in the summer of 1968. My question hasnt to do with
whatever original pur the FBI sought by initiating this kind ofsurveillance In New dork, but with a nding made concerning theWomens Liberation Movement in Baltimore which I have readto gin. I think you would agree with me that women do ve the
rig to get together to talk about humdrum existence and equal
opportunities with men and equal opportunities for work in our so-
ciety, dont they ? That is not a subversive activity.Mr. Amara. Well, but what you have here is the set nip of our in-
vestigative activity. We had New York, which was e oice of
origin of the investigation. You have other oices that were checking
to determine what inuence there was. In addition, New Yo:-kto
the New York oice, lay the fact that interwoven with the Worm-.na
Liberation Movement goal for equal rights for women, there was an
advocacy certainly of militancy and violence in achieving their goals.glow, Baltimore is one oice, and I believe that even there in one of
e reports?
The Caamum. You keep taking mebackto New York. v
Mr. Amms. Right.
' The Cnamaxax. And I keep taking you back to Baltimore. And the
reason I do that is because if you tum 2 pages back from this particu-
lar report, which has to do with the Baltimore organization, the ques-
tion is whether based upon that nding the investigation should con-
tinue of the Baltimore group, and the decision is that you will continue
to follow and report on the activities of the group. And I just won-
dered why?
Mr. Annie. This is a problem that we have. that we do have organiza-
tions where sometimes thethe Womens Liberation group is not a
good example because that was washed out, but we do have organiza-
tions where .
The Clinlmrax. What was washed out! Not the Women: Liberation
Movement!
Mr. Aunts. No, the investigation indicated there was no concern
or n_o reason to be concerned about it. But where you do have an orb
ganization that has branches in many areas of the country, and You
start with one place and it looks like you have a subversive organiza-
tion_, you do have to see, well, is this carried out throughout the or-
ganlaation or is it just one chapter or one group! In other words, not
even an organizational problem.
The Cirarluran. But you see, the trouble with that is in this Balti-
more organization you say in your own report that it was independent,
there was no structure or parent organization. no rules or plans, so it
isnt a part of a nationally controlled and directed organization by
your own admission.
Mr. Amara. I believe this report had some subsequent pages that_ar§nt included in here that did show some additional activity or
in uence. .
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The Cnamxan. I am told by the sta that this summary is accurate,
and the only other thing contained was that these women had ailia-
tions with an or nization that had protested the war in Baltimore.Mr. Anaxs. I think there were some other items.The Cualnaaax. That is the only other association we have
been able to determine. Apparent y the womens liberation move-
ment is no longer under suspicion by the FBI and the case has been
closed. IVhat happens when the case is closed? Are those womens
names still left m the lesl Axe they forevermore contained!
Mr. Amaze. Yes. v
l'I"l... I"-.-a--.-.-.-Q I-. 01>... -J1.-nlJ-ll 92Jaua1l'I.§a4an- aaaua a_yau|:aa.aI
Mr..A.muts. Yes.
The C1-uilaxan. Pretty soon you will have us all in the system. I_f
there is no way, even after surveillance has been terminated, to slum-
nate the references oi individuals through the les of the system,
you will one day have us all, wont you! Mr. ADAIIIB. Well, I would sa as part of a normal businesswhen we do make a judgment that an organization should be investi-
gated and we investigate it, and then we nd activities but we malre
a conclusion that there is no additional problem here, this 18 a record
of our oicial action. Now, if we destroy it, at what point do we get
into a situation of beingaccused of doing mmgs "' and then destroying
things to keep from showing what we do? The critical thing is whether
we are able, and we do set up safeguards, where information in our
les is not misused at a later date, and that is what these guideline
committees are all about.
The CJIAIRMAN. Do you have an idea of how many nam ofAmericans you keep in your les all as a result of the cumulativeeect of all these surveiilances in all of these cases? ' _
Mr. Ana:-ts. No; I dont.
The CHAIRMAN. Its in the millions, isnt it!
Mr. Annexe. We have 6% million les.
The Cmunarax. You have 6% million files?
Mr. Amms. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. And there are surely names of mom than one per-
son typically in a le, arent there l
Mr. Amara. But it is a rather large country.
_ The Cm92Isat.92:|~r. Thats a large number of les to start with, and
if you have multiple names in them, you are quickly up into 20, 30,
40 million.
Mr. Aoaus. Right. But many of these les are applicant les. Theyare not all subversive les. They are not all criminal les. We have
a million crimes of violence eac year. There is a. million people.
The Cnamarax. I wish you had more time to spend on those crimm
of violence.
Mr. Anaus. I do, too.
The Cirailumx. There we agree.
Mr. Amara. Right.
The CIIAIRMAN. That I worrv about is this. You say theres no way
to know when to close a le. These were surveillance les, originallyopened to determine whether organizations might have subversive
connections. There are names in t ese les, so some demagogue comes
along and says that the name of some public figure is contained in a
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certain oe rounu in the siibrersive les of the FBI, inu- tum:-"
it is. He has not made a misstatement at all. But to the Americanp6:£lB that mans name and reputation have been scarred..-Anairs. And I hope this committee recognizes that rec-ommends legislation that would enforce II'0l1&plIIlit-IYB orviolations against misuse of information in e les. We_tee_l this
way, CIA feels this way. We recognize we have a lot of sei_isiti_ve micr-mation in it. We re our employees if we nd them misusing uiforma»
tion. We feel we need additional sanctions in this area. I ont think
we can ever stop the accumulation of information. I dont know an
investigative agency in the world, a law enforcement agency, that
does not have to accumulate information. And we are working on
guidelines as to how to get rid of the irrelevant information how toeliminate material on really does not need to be 3% We hope we
will be able to come to Congress with these guidelines fore too long,
which will help addi-em itself to just some of these problems. _The Ciimmair. Well, you may be amircd that the cotnimttee
shares your objective in this regs and we will be working with youand the Department of Justice and others to tgstnd change the_lawsto ave a greater measure of protection to the amendment nghte
of eikmerican ple.I have no iz'&e1ii- quwtions. Are there any other questions!
Senator Mondale! -
- Senator Moimana. Mr. Adams, earlier, in inquiring about the basis
for investigating Dr. King, I thought I heard two basic justifications.
One was suspicion and fear of Communist inuence or inltration.
The second was, that he constituted a threat to the succem of the
Negro movement. Did I understand that second basis!
_ Mr. Aiians. No. The rst I was talking about was not suspicion but
mfomiation indicating Communist inuence. The second was on this
question of motivation that you have raised. I dont know what their
motive was to get to some of these other activities in order to discredit
and remove him. but it was a quaion. Apparently they must have
felt that he was a threat to either, as shown in the les the President
and Attorney General ex ressed concern about the civil rights move-ment and his continued sgiliation with some of these people.
Senator Moarnatn. Would you agree that it would not be a proper
basis for an investigation for the FBI or any other Government ocial
to be concerned about the success of the negro movement!
Mr. Amara. I have no noblem.Senator Momiatn. right. So let us take the one ground thatappears to have justied t e investigation of Dr. King and the
investigation of the womens liberation movementthe fear that
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or suppose an SDS member inltrated and became a dominant inu-
ence m a chapter of the women's liberation movement and you
established it as a fact. VVhat would you do! Amuming that we can't
get into this harassing and so on, you agree that that no longer has any
validity.lVhut do you have I
Mr. Amiis. We have potential violations which mi ht arise. whichrarely come to fruition and haven"t for many: yeani, lint we do havean intelligence responsibility under the directives from the President
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and the Attorney General. That is, when a mvoluonaq group, likethe Communist Party, has taken over control of_a domestic gimp andthe Communist Party is operated b the Soviet Union. l e would
furnish that information as we do. very copy of our reports goes
to the Department of Justim
Senator Moxnann. Ri ht; but just want to use the King casebecause, as I l1I1d6l'8CO0d,¬lB was being investigated for the reason
it was feared that a Communist or those who were suspected _of being
Communists, or known to be Communists, were gaming inuence
over him. Suppose you established that What present use or need is
there for that information?
Mr. Loans. I feel that the President, the Attorney General, the
executive branch, needs to know the extemt of e foreign-directed
Communist organization, its inuence and eeet on the United States
of America.
&n:.ter hie:-'2.-.:....
invest' tion to seek it is neoessative llifiliy of the FBI I
We have just heard about the womens liberation movement where
we were fearful that New Left, SDS types might have an inuence.
That justified that investigation. We now have your statement that
we were fearful that some Communists might have inuence over Dr.
King, and therefore, he was thorou lily investigated. Are there anylimits then on who can be investigates!
Mr. Anaus. Well, the only limits are that we must relate it to a
statutory basis of oinekof the Presidential guidelines we have or thenwuionnin --as nwwla -u is. an-:1-A-:4 Qilin Qa92192192:wI:I92l§ III92;I92II ndr Iv A nnaannl92-ll92vUl- IQ D -I-IIIIVU, Ill-Ull Ulllvlil 13 BIC IQEIFLILS 1:1. IIULILJ Glr U-I-ID lltublll
time by Congress. They have in the past by the Department of Justice,and this is the area of guidelina. This whole area of domestic scrutiny
is what we need guidelines in.
Senator Mosnana. Right; and you would agree, we talked about this
earlier, that being a Communist is not a crime.
Mr. Amara. N o, it has not been a crime.
Senator Moxnlun-:. So that the whole basis for this has to apparently
stem from a Presidential directive which you think has tasked you
to do this.
Mr. ADAMS. Yes.__..a..__ ll--.-..__ 1___a. _ .l__ _.|.L__ ___2..a_ I_ anlrn 921'_._-__I-....., 0DUIIIMJI DLURUAIJL dub I IUW Uhlll" l.lUl.Il.b5¢ 111 LUIU, L1UVlSlLll.I925l. U11970, a telegram from Newark to the Director went forthpropoeing
that the fol owing telegram be sent: [Exhibit 313]
Word received food donated to party by autl-liberation white pigs contains
poison. Symptoms cramps, diarrhea, severe stomach paina Destroy all food
donated for convention suspected of poison, however, still required to meet
quota. Signed, Ministry or Inxermauen.
This was a telegram that was to be sent from Oakland, Ca]if., to the
Jersey City, N.J., headquarters. The telegram went on further.
It la suggested that the Bureau then consider having the laboratory treat fruit,
such as oranges with mild laxative-tyne drug by hypodermic needle or other
appropriate method, and snip fruit ii i. ction from i ctitious person in
lllaml to the Jersey Cit: headquarters.
The answer then from the Director of the FBI -
' lee pp. 440 throull 442.uch information is valid, and an
there any limit on the investiga-
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The Bureau cannot authorise the
because of lack or control over the t. However, Newarka
proposed telegram regarding food coll olutionary People: Gon-
atitutlonal Coaventlonhaa merit.
be shipped to Jersey Cit!m I
How did you ever get to a_ point like that!
Mr. Anaats. I don-t know. What was the response from Newark and
then the nal answer taken! -
Senator Mornans. It was turned down because the couldn't controltaaniit, but they thought it was a good idea. Do you that: a good
I GI
Hr.Anaa|s.No;Idont.Ithinltthat-- __ Senator Moivoans. How did we ever get to the point that this kind oimsane suggfstion was considered, a suggestion which violated eve?-ones civi 'berties and was based on Government-sponsored frau I
How does anyone ever consider something like that?
Mr. Aoaars. I dont know.
Senator Moxnalz. One nal int. When we interviewed one of yourformer employees, he referredpzo something I never heard of beforecalled a no-contact list. He did it okinly, use he said, when thePope agreed tosee Martin Luther liing, e was sure he would be put onthe no-contact list thereafter. Can sou tell me what this list isi
Mr. Amuse. Not in an specic etail. I know that at one time therewas a there would be a that if an agent interviewed an individual
and this individual created a storm or a ruckus and we didnt want
some other agent stumbling out there and interviewing the same per-
son, that we would make sure that they were aware of the fact that
further contacts of this individual would result in a problem.
Senator Mosrosns. All right. Now in a memoto Clyde Tolson, it
refers to a conference on August 26 1971, with certain-it looks likeabout 10 members of the FBI. And this u whatit says: [Exhibit 32.1]
Pursuant to your instruction, members or the cmlerence were briefed concern-
ing recent attempts by various newspapers and reporters to obtain iniormstlon
about or from FBI personnel. Members were specically advised that there would
be absolutely no conversations with or answenr from any of the representativu
cl the Washington Post, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, CBS and NBC.
'Ihe only acceptable answer to such inquiries is no comment.
Now Senator Huddleston earlier asked about efforts to inuence
newspapers and media outlet. Does a decision not to answer questions
from certain seiected media outlets trouble you I
Mr. Amara. It is not the policy today. I think this has been aired in
the There was a period of time wherein Mr. Hoover, in reacting
to criticism from some of these newspaper men, where he felt he hadntbeen %iven a fair shake, or for some other reason, that he felt that they
shoul be told no comment, and he instructed they be told no comment.
The motivations I am not in a position to discus, but I can tell onlillgli theiie has been no such policy in the last several years dist
nowo . '
Senator Moxnam. If you could submit the no-contact list for us, if
you can nd it, I would appreciate it. -
I _have some other questions I will submit for the record, Mr.
Chairman.
The hununm. Very well. I ju have one nal follow-up uestionon Senator Mondales interrogation. I continue to be somewiiat fas-
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cinated by how long these investigations go, and when, if ever, theyare stoplped. Apparently they never come out of the les, whatever _iafound. ut Senator Mondale raised the point of a suspicion that inthe Martin Luther Ki case, that he was getting advice from a ger-son who had or was Itliiought to have Communist leanings. An so
Without using the name, because we are trying to protect privacy as
we conduct this investigntion--Selllr. Annie. I think we have a little more problem than that, too,
nator. '
The CHAIRMAN. I am using a Mister X in place of the name. WhatI am trying to get at is what the criteria is for pursuing an investiga-tion, and is is the kind of a statement that leaves me so perplexed.
This has to do with a reply to the New York oioe by headquarters
here in Washington. The part I read to you is as follows:
Hie Bureau does not agree with the expressed belief of the New York olce
that Mr. X is not sympathetic to the party cause. While there may not be any
direct evidence that Mr. X is a Communist, neither is there I111 substantial
evidence that he is anti-Communist.
And so the directions are to continue the investigation of this
matter. In cases of this kind, do you pursue the investigation until
you prove the negative!Mr. Aunts. No. I believe in that particular case, if it is the one
1 am thinking about, that there was evidence that at one time he hadbeen a Commiuiist and that there was a question of whether the
oioe felt-well, its like we have had some situations where a person
comes out and publicly disavows their former leanings. Do-you take
them at words right away after tliev have been engaged in violentactivities, or do you wait until you determine that they realig havecarried through the disavowed practice? Thats a gray area. '1 is one
seems that on the wording itself, would seem like an extreme philoso-
phy, leanin toward everyone has to prove in the United States theyare not a goinmunist, and I can assure that is not a policy of the
Bureau and does not t into the criteria of our general investigative
matters. _I feel that there is more to it than inst that brief paragraph.
T e CHAIRMAN. That particular kin of philosophy has come up
in our life from time to time. I remember during the days of Mc-
Carthyism in this country. we canie very close to the point wherepeople had to prove that thev were not now nor ever been a Com-
munist in order to establish themselves as patriotic citizensMr. ADAMG. Thats ridght. That's true. _
The CHADDIAN. An when I see standards of this kind or criteria
of this kind emerging, it worries me verv much.
I have no further questions. I want to tliank ou both. If there areno further questions, I want to thank you both for your testimony
this morning. It has been verv he] fui to the committee, and thecommittee will stand adjourned untii
p.m.
We will stand adjourned in public session. Our next public session
will be '2 :30 tomorrow afternoon for purposes of press questioning on
the assassination report.
[Wliereupom at 1:0? p.m.. the committee adjourned, to reconvene
at 2:30 p.m., Thursday, November 20, 1975.] i-6% +-- -"--1.-"t-'-i*£Lsr.-"' ~ "- Y1. .~. er I"Z" '=."- '1' " F 5. " ' -' ,- "' - af - 3*-. -. -"-I .';,- .. " -1 "92'-. ~. ~- '-? ~
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NEWS CONFERENCE or CLARENCE M. KELLEY
DIRECTOR, FEDERAL BUREAU or xnvssrxcawrou ~
_ . JULY 14, 1975 '
Good morning._ I have very few statements to make as
H tosay that this is a furtheran opening. I just want
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attempt on my part to be
which I hope we can continue Frankly,"it is something
and I have not in the past been premeditatively evasive
nor reluctant to appear before you. But, frankly, I've
been pretty busy with a rumber of other things. _I want to
let you know that we're continuing our efforts to try to
improve the rapport between us. We will continue to do
ome things and hopefully, in the future we can get togeth
more frequently on the basis of some of our past meetings'
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it Open for questions and these lights are a little bit
strong but I'll try to be able to identify you. Do you
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We have no ongoing programs whatsoever and have had no
" ' ' reports that it has occurred and this is something new
4 .
to as. _ ' = - - _-
Sir, there have been compdaints repeatedly in recent days
from Congressmen and Senators on the Hill who are charged
with investigating the FBI and its domestic surveillance
' in past years that they are not getting the information
' that they need; We heard from Senator Church maybe yester
- day. Can you'respond to that? - ~ .
The al1eg;tio__n___h§_s__b_e_en_ m_ad_e _gq, 'l;_l'_1__e__§_ffe_ot _that__the rs;
is dragging its feet, so to speak, an§_slow to respond, -...::=*'--_~ is 1 .
to the requests_of the Church committee for information
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and it's even been said_from_time_to time that_;his,reluc 3 ' _ i__J_ __ __;_ ',,_ 7 4 ,1 *~-- ~7 ' ' e- - _ 92~'-" ' " I
tance is reflective of an effort_§o preserve the image~o£I
I Ii V _ _ _, ,_ :;-.g-_-;_;-:_'-_~"__'."-'-
Mr. Hoover. First, I want you to know that in giving
' 92 .
instructions in this matter, it has been consistently
my policy to say that we should be completely candid
and forthright. And we should respond in whatever manner
' we can consistent, of course, with some restrictions--tho:
' being a matter of confidentiality and right to privacy.
Insofar as dragging our feet, the fetter w ' §§§éhE*t
.". .
" uq_was dated-May ll, l9l$£i éfinnediaiéiy"énb5:kea¢n 3- " " " ' * " ' n - --" ~: :=_--- .'_=.,.-.-."-..- ; .:~--;...:.
- program to try to respond. In May, 1975, I remember it w
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MR KELLEY
QUESTION
MR KELLEY. ~. '. 0
92 .
the last half of May, we devoted 323 man days to try to re-
spond and to date have added another over 400 hours and it
a total dedication of personnel-of 102 of our people.
We have 102 people who are.responding to this request.u I
-.1__ ._______ __92___ '__ ___._ :._ ___..1. .1_._ __.-I r.'|_¢_ _......ll The reason wny mucn time and": is great
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>; the file and
a great deal
complete the-5-" ' .'
QUESTION: Is in any of
nsend it on up. We have already subitted
of it and intend within the next 10 days to
entire matter.
that material'now in the Justice Department
- I
awaiting approval of the Attorney General? ~'
MR. KELLEY: Yes, some of
' to be transmitted. That; our first step--after we make
. our surgey, td ship it over to them, they review it and
QUESTION : Well , has it
I eant tell HR. KELLEY:
1- ' .
you can gage
92"-5% ._'. ._"r.54 '».- n-' -C. Y -5_. IZt QUESTION:through the Departmentit isln the hands of_the Department ready
th
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sen -n through.
been there for-a while?
you exactly what length of time but I can sag
that within about 10 days, we'll have ours completed and
thereafterwhat_type of delay is experienced
Mr. Kelley, Senator Church says that you,won1t_allowMhim__ __ __ i __ _ ____ W: _,__,_,,.4u-I eyj//andhls staff to interui§w_EBI_Agents and that'srone.of, __ _w_ M,*_ _..H .... .
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ma. KELLEY: ' . We have gone92 Is that true
interview FBI Agents? 5 the complaints he mahes_about thg_lack_of qgQpe;g;;gn,.
that you will not allow the Senate staff to
through a procedure whereby exFBI Agents
»» .--"-may-=~-.192a-ve.->aW?~il§b~?-8e-129» thew-en: .1:-.e..°x>le. i.n-'_°re"le..r. tn...-<=9"5¥11
. O
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I i _ .I .
- . '
3 we have not, to my knowledge, denied the right of anyone
presently employed to be iterviewed with, of course again,IQ_ _ _ k9292H929292the requirements that if they want to consult with us
_-Z"X_-¢"'92_
QUESTION:
e be interviewed by the Senate staf£._ Is that correct?
Let me just check that. Mr. Mints, is that correct? Havethey _may__dp,so. _,..._.l _ ,_,_92¢__:_. .if- _:;__,_ _ _, 1n_ '_'I1-___92_1
Well, in other words, you're saying that FBI Agents can
M. KELLEY:
we denied any?~ '
Q
We have not denied any. We've not indicated to anyone
' we would not let them be interviewed.Q, -
HR. MINTZ:
What was that Mr. Kelley, about ex--I didn't understand, QUESTION:
about ex-FBI Agents? H '
MR. KELLEY: ExFBI Agents, when called, and we're advised, are informk<
. that one of our people can be present outside the inter-
"view room for consultation by that interviewee with our
' - people to determine whether or not a certain question is
. _
. beyond the purview of his capability, and we_do not say to
cannot answer but we do say here are the rules
av
-IO the regulations, the law and you can be guided in accordar
with your own dictates. But we make available to him a cc
. . .
sultant, so to speak. .
. ,¢_--_ ."I' '_.'-. --92.f°-.r__.~_.. L. _'_..-_ 7-:-,3 :_.__-Qt 2, ., -__ ..~; 92.;_ _'f 92 _;.__92_ '2 _.: _:_,___- _____:.v_ '_::. _ 3 _-__ dun -__? __ L. A H _ _ __ __ J .__QUE$IIpN: Is that a requirement or..? - '- - , -* u >~ - --
_. ,_... . .' .- .- _- - ..~... -_.._.; ..._._._..___. ,.. .__..92._ J: _,__..,.._._.._ -____ .. |._ S Jib _ :_____ kub_=MR. hELLE!;_ __Thatfs_an agreement between us;_ V ff '____? m **
QUESTION: In other words, when an ex-Agent goes.up, he has td92have
somebody? .
I
92tr 1 '-"--- . ~'e'-"'=?""'"-*!:' "= ".-- " e-'-.-- 4-.."' e. '-.5-I . . _ .. .._ . , _.._, -- - -Y - - -'. ='-.e.-' : ,-"_-,- - - -1- , _ _ _'-,- _, _- .--. I .. . ,~§-. _--_; - _ ,--_;r_921..,.j 92,~_ J7.-'-__, E-_-, _r_r_-I, : -
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* .- MRI KELLEY:¢;~c-c~e=si -est; *??£?, *ttcsu*i"»#:.:¢ =. e e e e " E"-..:i---:*.T"==c',-%~%"* via-.-' ~"'~;: - 1 ="*?:~V _ P . .. - .. - - '92_. Q. ,_.4.. 92--g- 11- Q" -- ' - ' '- "" ' , -.r 1- _ r:?;'.f4" -; ; "1--f>.-.._i5.. * '_4w- -_ . 1..
n' G ' ' 5_ _ _ . _ ,, ,2
u I , -
, __| V. l _ .-
No sir, he does not have to have,but we inform him that
Q L_ _____ I___¢_.~ - ne may nave
_ A-.!_-0 GB51IC§o _
a ' '
_QUESTION: During your confirmation hearings two years ago,
- .-
you advocated or said thatyou would like to see _
more Congressional oversight of the FBI. You think now
that there's too much, just about right, or not enough
oversight? _ _
It is true that I said during my confirmation that I doII
ma. KELLEY:
%
- not object to'FBI Congressional oversight.' One has been
established and I have met with them on several occasions
- DQ___i@HOUSE to set an oversight committee. There is also a
' so-called oversight committee-it's the House Judiciary
92. I
Committee-there are others who may by virtue of their
jurisdiction feel that they, too, have oversight. We do
no oppose House oversight. Frankly, I would like to have
~~ a joint committee of oversight so that we can know
-' precisely to whom we should report and they,,in turn, know
precisely to whom any oversight problems can be referred.
Basically, in other words, I do not object to oversight--I
I do think that it would be much better it we couia nave .
it well~structured so that it will be clearly understood J -
hr all -_ea=1=ie.s.'..=Qn¢srne.<1 -as-;.¢<>,;,w11§#, ..th~'=2..§*=<*..9Q§=1.~.<1..-.ty*?. -¬-~9__,"it ,_
_, . - _ ._and how they are to do it. '
- 8 -
-' " J 1 r " a- ' 92 .§-"'1: "-.'...*- 2* .'--:-.'~. -_iI.-I _;_ ~. .--".1 -.- : . ,_ ,|92 -_ , . . . ._
' In ., . I ."' __-_ _. 0I -0 ' . - . _ 92 . -. ' I -
' 92 T -- -f -I
. .._!s-_-.-~- . e, -- .-- - l at-as 1..-. - ~ -=- .-r- ' .,_ _- '3-»a_ -=,._:-.1 -» _-- -"mt 1_._ _ Jy§f§_$= Q,% H; - t~f;;s ;¢§,se.,»; ¢,mH?_%§-~~ ' -- ' "~ ' '- 7-: xi - ,:._2-.;_' , ."_ ___;,,__'___'__;_.,_.,.._;.i~ ,-. _ . .I. . .. .
. , . " .1
QUESTION
MR KELLEY
QUESTION
-Fru92-" W:Mr. Kelley, do you feel the oversight being conducted now
between the Senate and House is probing too deeply into th
FBI-do you feel that any of the Operations of the FBI hav
been hurt by the investigations going on now? '
I do not construe the activities of the oversight groups
u _ ' -
_as having delved too deeply into the work of the FBI. We
on occasion feel that perhaps some matters need protection
particularly those involving national security, but I have
C .
no objection in the exchange in oversight groups of any
matter in which we are engaged. I think, as a matter of
fact, that this is a proper balance insofar as keeping us
in line and I also welcome it inasmuch as it gives us an
opportunity to explain just what and how we do things. I
do not object to the exchange, in other.words.
0
Mr. Kelley, you said that you're not attempting to preserv
the image of J. Edgar Hoover and, apparently, you know
what will be in the information that is to g6 out of your
office in l0 days. Can you tell us, when that information
gets up to the Hill and assuming it's made public, are the
going to be some more bomb shells about the FBI that we
.haven't;heard.about,or is,this_all$informatipn which has '- ~. _ --<L-- ~"r -:;-"1. ' '- -we i ----:.a .=a"- _"'-.-:-:-'.-"92._= .v92:..'_'.-'2: -r..-.Iw--|1."."- = .-."<'--'.-'_v.-3".-' ,r'!1-.-';-._,-L_
:.seneral.1y ..béen-made. Public? . -. y - -. -- - .- . _ l _- .- ., . - ,- _, , ..-. ;_'. ~ ';_ -'-_,-._- _- .__ ._ _- _:;-_ '___ .2;
f<aaa-¢'¢ 1<s¢s" 6": -as boib'"-she-I-ls , .--».¢ -ta-I 'speax-;=r-:-1n-»tne=- new: MR KELLEY
92 _ _ _ 92
media, there have been many things discussed, many report
made, and in those matters I think that just about every-
'thing that we know about has been already, at least to
s.'. -- 1 e . -. ,--' -.' - _, - _ _. _--""* '- ~.-'.-I--; j-.~_1-' * "--, c . "-if-2, '. .' '..r -.'~-'-:'- -1 1 92--"-"-- '"-- ;_v_-. ;t '..' ,---.,,.-- :,._'.92.-; ._ ~_92-, gr; ,_.;._~_-.
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. , __-_-_ 1 __ __ '-1-' :.. ' I K '
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- some extent, discussed and, to some extent, publicized. g i» 7. . 92
I am convinced that in these matters where there might be
some criticism, there is an underlying intent to do that1
I?
92 n
-*2_ 'which is good for the Natibn:' I have not come across any
i activities which I would construe as being illegalh being
directed toward persBnalLgain or to enhance the reputation
of anyone. I see nothing untoward in these activities. in
other words, as they will be reviewed by the various groupD
50 .
I
QUESTION:u vow, Mr. Kelley, Mr. Sullivan said about a week ago, that
as
f
he assumed there had been some national security break-ins
over the years and I'm just wondering if there have bs 5
national security break-ins, say in the last five yea" ,'* -_ ,, _ '* W '_
roughly what number are we talking about and why area|92lI'-Iii-no-n-luv-p-1 -n--to-awn- "-II-1"."-"'
they illegal? Whats the legal authority?
MR. KELLEY: There have been statements made about surreptitious_
. entries and the latest was that statement made
by Mr. Sullivan who just retired as the Assistant
Director in Charge of the Los Angeles Office: and the
H have been, of course, reports in the media that the
i Department of Justice has been inquiring into alleg is
that_our_people have engaged in surreptitious entri
r, ._= ;?'7~-_-,.'_.-,;-.--_'92zq-1 .13,-.-",-_-_.92,~1..:=.~;§_.; .__1é_.é._'_'~.-*_.___,_;__.,, ___ ? ___ 92- K I _ _. _ J- ' ' - " ' s"-' .~;"--*-~ -.-¢.~=.==
as_they arefsometimes termed, burglaries. Yes, the
_ _ . g ._..-,. ,,:._,_ __:_-_, -_ '3 - . |. Q ._.-__, __ _' ,,_:,~_J__. ___ _ _ _
I V _ : _ _ . . I . .J '_-._ -._-__, _--:,I-. .1.-p,_'--_.,_.'has conducted surreptitious entries_in_securing in;92 I- . _ ..,._n_.' ._- -. -' 92--E -';,'1¥.';----.-='.r.'.$--?: - '1-"1.
2 1.921:- -.L
tan. '
q I relative to the security of the Nation. However, 5
- ' -"'-""
92
.u
-'.~'.1 ~ I ' - an -' - ~ .» .. - h ,. .Be - A J 5 .'.-:-.1 92' - r '- --- ls v" *
4 .' .a I1 92 _'.- _ .
Q. .- '_ . ' k .'
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' .. . --¢- .-= N ' ' - ' - ;_,___ .,,., 4. ,, i. ...,g A, ;_ r q%~@ H, ,~ ._.,=}. at ,,,.,,_._b l H, . r _4 -, ' _- -_92_'~ -' +1--.-'._.'"¥:I=. 33¢ ' ;"' ' ' '- 92"-" . - -,1, '_'g;-1, - -' _ ' - --.' -- , .. ¢..=, __-<. __ ___:W §,fT_r_ ___m__J E ,_. - ._4!;;_~l ,_O
1
tic"
66,
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t
-
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f,_192_-1.3-_-._-';92' ti:-i.§-.1 yJ:<.. .
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1 ' ' I _
all such actiuity was terminated with the exception of
a small amount of actighs which were conducted in connection
*_¬-__
-reign oounterint* "ence investigations which we
; felt had a grave impact u n;the security of the Nation.
d again, as I just said, I feel that the FBI personnelJ ' .
participating in or_approving such activities acted in
_ good faith with the belief that national security interests
' I were paramount and their actions were reasonable. I'm
_ up '
*1always mindful of a story I heard many years ago about two
neighbors who started some arguments which, obviously,
. were going to terminate into difficulties. One of the
.
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fl QI_ _ _: V _ , . N: L..5_?1___,:- I V.-r "gal _- _- _ I, ,__. , ,_ Q. _ _ _ _V _ __& ' ' * ' * ?i* '" - ' es -- ~. ~-~:-ea~~e yM. #4;-aft}
. .i ,..,
0 ,}
.
Q who gave the OK. Did this come from President Johnson
or President Nixon or was this a decision made by Attorney
- ' I General.... . 1 - -I II
_ 1
This matter will be_discussed in subsequent hearings MR. KELLEY:
_ and in reports, and further than what I have stated, I
cannot comment. . _ .
gussrion; nhrr Kelley, were these directed against Americans orM Q lforeign persons?_ '
MR, matter: I would prefer not at this point to make any comments
further and particularly not1in particularity as to who
_ may have been the ones against whom they were directed.
QUESTION: ' Well, were they all conducted in this country or were
" - _ [some conducted overseas? _
HR. KELLEY: -I know of none overseas. < .
QUESTION: sir, going back to prior to 1966, why was the procedure
changed in i966? . .x '
MR. KELLEY: , of Mr. Hoover that, under the By virtue of the feeling
thenprevailing philosophy and the feeling that possibly
I
in the context of the times, this was not a viable
procedure--they were stopped. It was Mr. Hoover's
decision. _.- .1. uh . -P, _ , I - -.92 0. 929292- 4., -.|:,_ .92,' . M». _».__l.I F: |._| _a._.__ '__.92:_ .h'_'_,-__i.. .r d~_~_"; ,*. _._q _ in, _ . . . . s . o . : ' -,5, '1--I _- '
2*-
1
!
T,QUE§lIoN§ ,_,_ Sir, can we'infer that there were quite a number, a
1arge;numher,~o£fhurglaries_prior to 166,_but-ewer' ;; e ' ' ,_' ' " *1-= -- '- '7:--L
" ' ince then? '~ ' 92
Humid-I-unnlmlli -p
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U U-'_ ' 4' ' U F 1 '92 ~ Q-' ' , -|
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u' I
|
HR. KELLEY: _ You cannot infer anything because-I have not told you
' '- ' 'of any number. I can only say that they were stop ed
in 1966. As to the number, I_cannot actually tell you hw
many nor can I say that it*s§uite a number or very few-
- 0
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92 92
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' ANSWER: -
1
B 7I.41 '.'._&-,-. £- __
. -,L_;,__- -. ..
".~_» - .1-1: "->1.7 4-P3",- .4.
F-r
rQUE§TIOH :' a~ ~ _
92 1
a § .
tell us the number?I, . Why can't you
going to make reports to our Congres-~gsional groups and to the Department of Justice and,
frankly, I can't tell you the number myself. we
don't have any.... __
I " .
QUESTION: The _did not entirely stop in 1966? There were----- Isome?§§§§:§IH §E¬TyoG say, a smaII'hber after1966 ""7 *Because we're
--- oi. _c.9.u:;s_e_.,.i:£.g1;¢_..;ie1.@ t.ose,i.s.12._. s=:.<.>921.922_*:-.<-=.=,.r.>l..m;e Ali- .r=-,9§S°n.aP¢eE29§eEQ£=i$e¥%EiQemE£%i£eE£§!ElE@P9°t1 .;.LT,.-.91.1._<?.2.1r_i4..=.. 6 6ANSWER: ITheremmax,haxa.hee r 1966 which were,
,_!-I
BUESTION: Before that, they were not with the field of foreign
counterintelligence?
ANSWER: |Oh, yes, there were some in that field also.
QUESTION: There were others that were not in the field of
foreign counterintelligence before 1966?
You recall that I said in the context of the time,
it may well have been that prior to that time national
security or counterintelligence or whatever terminology
you might want to use could have included other areas.
But, then you began to compartmentize various types
of activities and then it became evident that the
area of foreign counterintelligence national security
certainly should be differentiated from domestic
security. ,I
ANSWER:
x ' 1
QUESTION: But, Mr. Kelley, what policy have you followed inI the time that you have been Director? Is this type
of activity, has it been permitted? Is it policy
now to conduct this kind of activity? V
ANSWER: i1
I have not had a single request to conduct such
activity since I have been made Director. If ever
anything of this type comes up, and I can't foresee
this heed, but,'if-it ever-did come up and-it became N"
-a matter of_grave concern, a matter which-is.to,be-eH;
solyed_only through such activity, I would present é. _
it to>the Attorney General'and would'be quiaea-by= ""'
his opinion as to such activity. Frankly, I have
not had any such request since I have come aboard- T .
_ 1 . .
.
92
I
- 12 92
' ' " 1 -r i'
I _ . I - I I _ .
e:.._._i._-~ e . - ._., _ _ ,_ ._ ._ ., .. _ _ . . ._ . .._._.._.__ 3 f, ' ' - - --. '0' .1 A u I
I Z V X '_ . ' -"' i L _ 4 " .7 ." '*' '-.- L.-'~'rb_'~ .'_'T. 1'-.,_'.".l._ L ., j"~ I -1!. - i ' ' '
. . . ' -. '37 "*""_-_' "T.-;?"7--1 .. H-Z-5".vi- '7' 1' ' '- - ' . A.-2-1 . . ;.-. _-..._;-A-,;;-:'-r.>l.3~ .-*'g=""§,L."-_' T?-§ }.,§'. ' -
»- -.""" -. ' _ .- _,.___ _r I m - 1; -I, . "1 z'- .- .. _ =-_"' '_'-~ _ , .__ _. _ i -ii 0' _*1:-- d__92_¬r.: .._=_ ,5; o1I-»- '-,_.|-92f3'i.$:-{K,, ~._.. - _* i ' I -I-'.'r' :2. u-.'-7*"; . " v-"__'. '-E21:-";:.'¬ '-- cw: . 2: . Q _ 92 egg .~ .-. '.~ ' L --..'={,.; .» * .*~'J» a= -, . ~ 1 ,. - »_,. . = :.-"'- "~.="- ""» .- _-'-.*.~ '1 , ::_l.92': -f"5~. A ..*.:::.= - ' u -~. 3*"-Qé , . "..-2;;e - - - 1 - _ ' . -l . ' .',_.='.'v.-:_" - ,"'
~vs:.- - -. ,_ _
~..I _ I AL ' - I4-. .:1 QUESFION: Is that in the foreign field, Mr..Ke1ley. Is that
§j Q I limited to the foreign field when you say such
§%,} =. "activity?
1-I -f ,
= ANSWER: Yes, sir. Foreign intelligence, counterintelli-
gence, national security, whatever terminology
- . you want to use. _ -
QUESTION: {Back prior to 1966, were any of those in say
organized crime investigations? __ .
92-lbiilh I I. . ._ . _ § _ _ - I | .
ANSWER: I .l KIIOW Q! DORE.' .0
QUESTION: would you characterize, Mr. Kelley, what areas they
- e were in, please. What areas the pre-1966 burglaries
~ took place? Characterize the kinds of investiga-.
tions they concern?
ANSWER: I can not at this point characterize them because I
1 just don't know how they were to be characterized.
; - But, it could be that, I would guess, that the
great majority of them are what we now term counter-
foreign, counterintelligence, or national security.
I would say that in all probability the geat majority
,6; t of them were in that area. That's where the gravea§§ 1 concern is. . e-' H--|_ .,A - _ -QUES'1ION:&~ H Have you reviewed them from a legal pointof view
to determine whether any of them at all were con- _
ducted without proper legal authority?. .
ANSWER:- We have discussed them with the Department, and_will
place them in their hands and they will make such
a review. ' .
QbE$TION:- I wanted to ask you if this goes back to World War- I II, the Korean War, the Vietnam war, the Cold War
or all of them? .
ANSWER: They will go back to World War II, Im confident.
_,, --:- ~ ~ -' or whatever means for-surreptitious entry as dis-- M
-. ;'$'_ r'l ¢.~ , 2}» .-etinguished from an qrdinary.search.warran;?,.;5_,u.;._wVi? QUESTION: I Is it possible tp get court authorization by warrant '
0
IANSWER:*""j' *!Inherentin"the*request*for-a'microphoneiinstallationxi "1" there is e matter of surreptitious entry. Se, therein
' you have a natural concomitant. You do have that
".' I V -' _ 9292 0
1 I 92 .U
'- » ' - _ . . - 1- - .- : - , - .-, ' - .j -Ir . . #'_. g_-. .- - ,_ - __ ._ .i . *,| I
L~~~e -eeeweaw::w:rwrm:;x:r1rT@$I?ZT
QUESTION
QUESTION
QUESTION.. 92_,?vs "a " *-1 ' Q, *5; Y2 L xv _ ta >~-'-iv - . -. ___~ ,,_ ._.iP'. ' " a " -_,_ .92 ~*
permission There is some dictum to indicate, at
present, that this may be brought up later. But, I
know of no authorization which can be obtained per se
for a surreptitious entry. And, at this point, of
course, the feeling is that these confined as they
are to foreign counterintelligence it flows from
presidential authority as it applies also to the
warrantless wiretaps. _0
weren't the civil rights groups, Mr. Kelley, among
some of the organizations who were burglarized?
I'm not going to say anything about where they were,
or against which organizations they were directed,-
only to say that they were, Mr. Nelson, and I hope
that will satisfy you, and I hope that if there is
any revelation to be made later that they can be as
complete as possible because, again, we feel that
the intent was a very good one and there was no
illegality concerned. And the impact of it was to
protect the country.
sir, how can you say that there was no illegality
concerned if the Constitution says that you have to
have a search warrant to_make an entry and without,
as I understand it, even checking this with the -
Attorney General, these Agents burglarized privatepremises? '
The resolution of the problem which you now present
is up to the Department and the courts, and I, oi
course, will not engage in anything except to say
that in the defense of the men who authorized.and
participated, that they had this intent and within
every criminal violation there is a necessity that
there be the ingredient of intent and there was none
here as far as I can determine.
Mr. Kelley, would you say, sir, that most of these
requests for surreptitious entry flowed from presi-
dential authority? Is that what you said, sir?
Ho, I did not shy that. I-did not give a complete
outline as to what the authorization.was,;_And,.this
again will be a_matter-which.wi1l be discussed in._,
the reviews of the Department and the various Congres
sional committees. s
-14-
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1' 0 I I 92-I _ -. .5 Q Q
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_ .. .II I '
ii QUESTION
or-ANSWER
QUESTION
QUESTION
QUESTION
QUESTION
-Sir, would you say that the Cubans who burglarized
Daniel Elzberg's psychiatrist: office should not
have been convicted then since they thought that
they were on a national security mission? They
didn't intend to violate any laws. That was their
testimony. _- s
, -
I have no judgment ihsofar as that because my .
province is in presenting the facts and for the
review and determination by the courts and if such
an inference was.made it was not intended by me
to give them any sanctuary. I'm trying to keep in
the area of our facts and that particular thing as
to whether or not they had any intent or whether or
not it is_a viable defense is up to the courts.
Mr. Kelley, did you twice mention that you expect
some resolution to this question in the courts?
How is it going to get into the courts?
I don't know. It possibly will be some sort of a
defense, rather some sort of a presentation to the
courts by the Attorney General. He has indicated
that perhaps this being a Constitutional question--
it being a matter of the executive privilege of the
presidential power--that it might well be necessary
to have such a review to determine.
were all of these break-ins conducted with the
permission of either the Attorney General or the
President at the time? Or.were there any that were
conducted without such approval?n 92
I cannot. at this point, give you any particulars
about the program. I just say, as I did before,
and this....
Because you don't know or because you're withholding
comment?
I'm withholding comment.
Mr. ggl;gyy_;'ns§ill_unglea5_abogt distinctionhe:-Yes";.s.&s.sls;*:i!92s..ss?9.1:s..L91?<5-a=1s;;st'£s¥=*:,a=se~ -I Is the
reduction_in_number;the-only change.that was made or,..*:.re§...¢I1~=:..1:e_.¢!i4nsé.ln..§11sll;;iii3;e.¢.._i6n;_sss " ' rs1:e-;.taiqét=that were used? - ' '92
---nr--r---we ¢..s¢o-nap!-nan-|Iuin|I|Q
ANSWER There was a change,insofar;as_theytg;gets justwbeing s . . _ . . . s. W _ _N"g_r_, . _i '_ *" in the subsequent area confined to those matters which
were .<=on<=..=,rn<=.<i_.__1n. .f9.=ei9v-.,9°nnte;.in$=s.l.liss¢s-
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I .n ., _ I. . l
. ; QUESTION: You imply then thatnthe others concern domestic -5-----~ """'s'eE~;':':'Z1'.t " o'i?'d1d"'i.'t a'"s".=-syaaa-'£n'sav"'-"'" '
Kl. -
' irlltniii
'QUESTION:
~--on-no-no-Ilb
' ANSWER:
I
'-
QUESTION!
ANSWER:Yae.s,-H ...._...-nib.-.._.-1 I 92.J..n ,.. . '
This implisatipn is yours, Mr. Rogers, but....
I I1? trying to recall whatuyou said initially.
I said that...,Mthehquestion was asked me whetherIt included admesclc inpeI;i§gn¢e:?s5afITBaIa":*
was_éonfidehtthatftheigreat'majority was in_gh§I area.bff0rei§nWinEEIIiééEéIprjf5féi§l¢Otsr-intelligence, whateveriyou want to call.itausAnd
..liners:max:§§§§:§§sn::::;nbn;=.snea-
Hr-. .$§Ll lQJM$J£ d a
reguestiipr an t e of activities_such,as_this
;'- =5-.!19.s-2o.e_5.,eys..5__.n.ee last.....gne..t-:'1.ke..1=.1.a¢s.?.. u
I do not know. I do not know. .
QUESTION: will the material you turn over to the Church
ANSWER:
. oussT1on=
92 .
In
.0I
ANSWER:
. .32: a .
>
i'P1b%IlI'Y'-_ H ___:I:?r+Ip_v'r92-__ --_ ' _.___-.;':92 _'.'Ij I*<Z"" _1 :92_?_I'j:". 11:?-; .5.-I T4! 'I':"I5?f"*'_ - H"""" Committee include full details of everyone of the
breakins? -
It will be a matter which will be completely
presented to the Attorney General, and, insofar as»§£' ' J full disclosure by him, thats a question which
. ?only he can answer. We will report those about
which we know. ' -
Mr. Kelley, you said it was a1so_for the good of
the country that Agents send letters to school
boards and principals and others to damage the
reputation of people working who have had connec-
tions with groups the FBI had infiltrated. Was
that also for the good of the country?
Your statemnt, was that also for the good of the
country to do that, to damage the reputation, was
not the issue. As you pose your question, you
answered substantially my response that would be
made. Yes,-I-think that the purpose here was to
do something that would ultimately end to the .
- -benefit of the-Nation. ~In other wordsr.I think-I,-u.l in the so-called COINTEL Program, which you men- Itioned, that the intent there was one_which had 9292
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adequate basis. As to the programs, now, indi-
vidually activities within those programs may be
suspect. I have said and repeated that some of
those activities I would not feel are proper today. I
- wasn't there during the time that all of these programs
were developed, nor certainly the approval of the
various activities within those programs. were I to
have been there, there is some that perhaps I might
have said, "No I don't think this is proper." I have
the benefit of hindsight. I have the benefit of exper-
ience in local law enforcement which, I think, prepares
me to better understand perhaps the impact of some of
these types of things. They are not at all unknown in
the field of law enforcement. In some degree or another
"almost all the law enforcement has engaged in some
similar types of activities. Not perhaps to the sophist
cation as the COINTEL Program, but the context of the
time is felt necessary in the present day. We realize
that different standards should be applied and they are
and we do not engage in those activities now. Since
April, 1971, we cut them off.I
Q
i-
NOTE TO CORRBSPONDENTS AND EDITORS: The preced-
ing comment by Mr. Kelley concerning local police
use of efforts similar to COINTELPRO may be open
to misinterpretation. At his direction the FBI
later issued his clarifying statement: I had in
mind that law enforcement agencies have used
- methods designed to create disunity among the
criminal element, particularly in organized crime
and hoodlum gangs. Probably most common was
labeling a crime figure as a police informant
to discredit and destroy his criminal influence.
These activities to pit one crime figure against
another have achieved success in neutralizing
the criminal element. !92'-
Q
I
QUESTIQN: 1 " " " "' "" "-" - ' ' -- --""*--You said that you disagreed with some or tne activities,
that they were not proper programs. Alright, does that
mean that there are variations of COINTEL Programsstill going on? - -
In the
That's
Within
112168,. . - __ 92'0 I "' '- .-I "3'92' --- 'rr A
first place, we deliniate certain programs.
the overall structure of the full system. v
each of these programs there were some activ92 .
individual activities. I feel that the setup
of the programs certainly was directed properly, that -
is, with the intent to preserve the Nation. Insofar
-,?.¥¥ .*.?{?_¬J.. 1- .: . .-?.=¬~..f..-.. .- -°E.<.-... ;¥;?§.-.- .¥-,._??.s%-. Fbe.=..~. - - -,-.v _s'
answer: _
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,_.¢ n1.;-.15 "QUESTION =.
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1 tod ' ontext particuiariy impruéf i-'1:§::'th:y ~92: §¢§, again in the present context, tgetype of thing that certainly 1 would gpprogeae :3 t atas it may, we stopped them in 1971 an we 8
intention to continue thep.&.
Mr. Kelley?
Yes; sir; Joe - "
.|
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50
QUESTION:
SWER:
ON QUESTI :
~
SWER:
92 '_
QUESTION:
SEER;
QUESTION:
SWER:
" - 10- . '
- nua
M. ' j
Q I , - .
I
L . -. .QUESEION: _ When you were an Agent_;j _ _break-ins or were youdid you engage in any
aware.of any break-ins?
Insofar as the setter which you are now discus-
sing, I think that we can give substantially the
same answer to this. This is a matter which is
being investigated by the~Department and is being
investigated by the various comittees, particurlarly the Select Committee of Congress and, Im
not saying that Clarence Kelley engaged in such
activites, or did not engage in these activities.
I'm merely saying that these have been presented
for review and they will, thereafter, be disoussedat some length and any publicity that might begiven them will be that which will be given by
those more knowledgeable than I. .
Hr. Kelley, to your knwledge have any members of
the FBI been involved in the planning or execution
of assassinations? _ '
No, sir. I know of none. '
Fm. Kelley, how about the break-in of embassieshere in Washington. Have any members of the FBIE gained surreptitious entry into any embassies in
Washington? - _
| Without naming or designating victims or insti-
tutions, I can only say that there were a feeI concerned with counterintelligence-foreign innature-subsequent to 1966. Further then that
I cannot say. I
A few is 10, 20, 100? when you say few, I'm sure
that I'm lost as to how few is a few.
Not many. , .
was a lot oi this done in Washington as opposed
to other cities in the country? " _
There.were not B lot, im confident of that. ind,
frankly,_I_don't think that all of the few were
confined to Washin ton, D. C., but I can't tell 9you absolutely that that is true.
- 13 _92
-1
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Qvssrxon
ANSWER:
QUESTION
! I
QUESTIOQ
ANSWER:
QUESTION
ANSWER:
92 -
QUESTION
I' .
I
Ans:-Isa;u _ x. 8 .-:3 __ I0 I - ~ . .
0 . . 0 _
Mr. Kelley, were any of these done in conjunction
with the CIA? With their knowledge?
I know of none. Now, subsequently, perhaps there
may have been information which did go to them
but, not insofar as the origin of the information,
I'm confident of that. We were not in partner-
ship with CIA. _ f .
How about-the sh? _were there any of these break-
ins done to help benefit the NSA in its code-
hreaking programs?
That is a matter which will be developed and will
be presented and, it's better for them to comment
then I= -_ i _ '
Mr. Kelley, the Rockefeller Commission report
said that, in discussing the CIA's mail cover
operations, said the FBI only learned about this
about five years after it was in the works. In
1958, I believe. Mr. Colby's report to the
President said the FBI knew about it from its
conception. Which is correct?_
It is my understanding it was 1968.
1958? '
1968. Wait a minute, 1958, 1958. That's right,
1958. _ - I
hr. Kelley, in the last 50 years, as I understand
it from FBI officials, there has never been an
FBI Agent prosecuted for any kind of corruption
or crime in connection with his official duties.
Is there any agreement with the Justice Department
either in writing or any other kind of agreement
not to prosecute people who may stray from or
commit crimes but, rather to handle it withinternal discipline? '
I
Mr. Kelly, spelled K-ELUY, there is no such
agreement. I would not abide by such an agreement
I vehemently oppose any such arrangement and would
not operate under such arrangement. Np,
none. Yes, anyone that, within the FBI, will be
prosecuted if there is evidence leading to that
IIIO.-_
there 18
QUESTION
Answsh=1 »
no
'1
-
Qt.} 92"r-"',92.-~51
.-»'{i.'. f 3:
=h%3
_ ~ '
"-_92-0,. ~ _ . »i;..___- ..- -~ ~ _ ' -;- ,-e--_- ~ -.-3-at <" " ."..~ ~ . , -We _1 =§@Lm%@? v~;; ."#n*~=,~£rtM-2-¢1a;g;cnse;i;;;;-P:.@.¢7' -1' " ' -' * " """.". f i"-""-Fe»-";'3"_.'. L-"'3-.' 7'...-~_' * '3 "s;'_'f_~§»-éI__ ._
l~ U
conclusion. I can assure you absolutely that
this is my policy, is the policy of the Bureau,
and that we will pursue them as vigorously as -
we possibly can. There's nothing worse in my
estimation than the betrayal of trust and that:
what we have when one of your own people defects
- and gives sanctuary and assistance to theorminal world. _ ' ; -
How do you account than for the fact that there -
has been no one who_has strayed across the line
in all these years? It's almost unhuman.
.-
well, I appreciate your compliment, Mr. Kelly,
which I agree with, there has been none. There
- have been, of course, some allegations made
from time to time, all of which have been pursued
and found to be groundless. I think that it's -
inherent in an organization which is closely
scrutinized, an organization'which has a strong
inspection system but, more than anything else,
is the choice of people who are not susceptible
to this type of thing. Unquestionably, in such
a screening process some might get through.
But, than, within the FE; is a built-in system -
which further prevents this possibility and that
is a tremendous pride in this very matter. That
is, that there has been no corruption. and, I
am confident that Agents working with one another,
although, will, of course, on occasion be sym-
pathetic to an Agent who possibly may be driking
too much or may possibly,-for other reasons in
the area the morals might digress to some extent,
they absolutely will not countenance corruption
or defection to the criminal element or otherwise
contaminate that splendid reputation of the Bureau.
It's a unique situation. It's difficult for some
to understand. But, it's a builtin barrier to
_ an extension of this type of activity and, some-
thing of which we will have tremendous pride and I
personally would not hesitate one second to pursue
any allegations such as this, feeling that although
it may get wide publicity, although it may, to some
extent, harm'the credibility of the FBI, it must
be done.- And, I assure you, will be done. Unusual
perhaps, but nonetheless, it is present and we will
persist with this type of activity. we don't ask 92
our Agents to squeel on one another, we point out ~
" the splendid reputation that is inherent within
our tradition and is one of the finest traditions
you can possibly build. _ -
92 .
_ 29 -
-' - .7 ' "-l "I-' Y" '--2. , 4 .. it . ~ c, _92_ -'1 .- , - , -- , .__. _ . -V ~.; _ _w ~- -.. . - ,_ __ _,_ - ,_t- ,_,,____.._-___.*_,H,.__, ' r M "-- v J-' - zzzf-J-JT§3 d.-'51! *§".'§-1-:.:.'2'P.', .:s~- "*r_ ' " -' - .}_ '., r=='"-F._ 1 -.
QUE§TION
R KELLEY
Qosisrzou
MR KELLEY
-.»_._¢ ' ,
Mr. Kelley, earlier you spoke of the advantages and limitations
oi hindsight. After having exarnined the records oi the break-ins A
and other surreptitious activity, you observed that you th-
U
was well intentioned, .1 believe, in most cases. ma you also
observe that there was any gross misuse of authority in the
process of that»? ' v ' "
I do not note in these activities any gross misuse of authority.
I see a consistent thread oi well-intentioned activities. Perhaps
now in the present society, and in the context of now and in those
times, I do not feel that it was a corruption of the trust that
has been placed in us; As now we have determined a valuation
that perhaps could be wrong, but in those days there was no
intention to engage in activities which were prohibited, illegal,
4,s.._
va-
!? .
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I. "e- r: . 92 we - t e . , . . ._ _ _ _ to an 1;, §.;,i.7-_~4;_,£ _ -9;_ja _ ___..¢, kl I I?-_2L_':-H"-_E-: ?..!:_;_;:-r',_ ;_,;._,.: .7 L _ It, -7 " -' .< -- 9' "' i-ix -.: ' 92 -' ~'.- ., w -35' Li ' ~ .7 . ' 1'1 ¢'-'1"*"" "' ' V ;-"'9' - 1' - . -, . -t . __
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O
QUESTION:
rm. KELLEY:
.
0
I
s
,2. ,.
|. - .- t- ." ",. .- ~| -"- - 1.» 1'. _, ..__. 92 _
Q .You say that it was a matter which was then a violation of the
law. Within the warrantless wiretaps under ordinary circum-
stances they could conceivably be construed as a violation, but
under the umbrella oi the prdtection of the country they have
been authorized, so I don't subscribe to the feeling that they
knowingly, in such an installation, vated the law with the
intent toviolate the law. -_ .
ovMr. Kouey, do-you still--does the FBI still--compile personal
information on the personal behavior oi Members of Congress,
members of the press, and other people?
The FBI receives a great deal of information from time to time.
- 92 -We are charged when we have a complaint to write up that
complaint. We feel that not only are we following the archival
rules that such must be recorded, but also we feel in discharge
of our duties we should record it because such ln.f0rn_'_iati0n might
well dovetail with some investigation that we are conducting.
People come to us to tell about these things for reasons--not
just to spill out gossip and rumor and to possibly put someone
on the spot. We inform them, for example, at the time they
--< submit this information a -record wm be _n1ade'_ot this but if it 13..
, .- - _ -- _-- .. . _- ,--._ - . _ __ _ _ _, . - . I .4 .
outside the jurisdiction of the FBI we so state. They know beiore
they leave, for example, that nothing will be done about it other _
than to record it. ' t _
-. - »-.I- . . -. . - " -.' ,' -"' " ,-'-' "" -" '. 92 -. _. . _ . _ . ~, =. -t._- an - -'~t _ --.,.-,- ' ..-_-- I " . - . --22---' __ .
t .92 J . _ . .
- , n . .- " .. ._._ - 1- at _ __ -_ -. .. ,-_- _- .. - _ _ . " ' * * -. - 4- - P 1'---~-.-. .t-:A0 -».. , . ., s. .- . ~ . . _ ' - 0 _ _ _- 92_-"'1'?-",'1'T-T""""!' 1: ; . v. -,...--r 4- .-. - - -I 411- - --.- - _ - , .,, ., . . ._._____" a . , . -. I .__ l-_- ',-_l,|..q -_2|I_. . -F . _ _._ .'__-v-._-_¢-_ Q _;_ __ ___._ -_ .__,-..,...__'_____, ,,,.- H. '5'. "'-'_ " ". '|""F."'Q-»"t'_'.-_PJ _ , . . ._ Q -ll -- -~,- l!,. !_,- , , . _ , . , __ ___, ,__
-92-I I I i
- UESTION:
R. KELLEY:
'5
QUESTION:
Qn
:3. _-
- ff
:.1 *-;
.
KELLEY
' .- ~Ff
QUESTION: _
a ts. KELLEY:
"-JR. KELLEY:
KELLEY:1 _ - F ' '
. , -
' D ,
But it is put in the files? _ -
Yes, it is put in the files. Yes sir.
Whether it has to do with sex activities, or drinking too much,
orwhat have you? _ .* ' 92' y _'
The allegations within the complaint are put into the complaint
and are put into-the file no matter what they might be. Yes.
Government officials, Members of Congress and the press,
Ir
-and what have you? '
Yes sir. The Department of Justice and the Bureau are now
engaged in a mutual venture to set up guidelines as to our
activity in' this regard. We will abide by those guidelines.
We do want it known, however, that some of this information
might very well be helpful to us in later investigations. The
abuse is the publication of this iniormation, and I know of no
. I
.__92_abuse, Jack, which we can point to. _, "
Has it been used at times to try to get a person's job?
Ii-mow of none. ' _
You know of none? _l ' . .
Now you say to try to get a person's job? Now I don't know of
all of the activities -that we're- involved in--and'L~'say-to. you,» Jack,- .- ' 1 4 no . - _ . . - . 0 . , ' - .. _ , .- _ , . . .. _
that yes there have been some accounts as to this effect. I ieei
that actually were there any such activity it was on the basis of a
. . .
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3 feeling that these things were true and that they were of such
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the present time. I have been asked what about your own feeling
' about such iniormation. Since I have arrived I have not had a bit
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not going to read them, and I certainly do not sponsor any move
to revive anything such as may have once existed.
Those files will remain? Rumors, gossips--gossip, whatever
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is in it? -' ' '
Yessir.- .'_ _ t -
You saidthat you don't question the motives of pe0p1e who come in
to give you information. Do you ever check out the information
that was given to you about the people? ' -
if it is within our jurisdiction and makes allegations which may
__ ..-a 8mount into a violation, yes, we
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allegation that so and so is a sex deviate or that he is going .
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STION:
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statute by investigating it. But more than anything else it we,.._
have no business in it we shouldn't be checking it out and we
donot. - -' ' I " '
If you have no business in it, iwh§ are you in it at all? "
We did not enter. into it. - ~- 4 ' I_ § _
Is this a tile that is a part 0! the FBI records?
Yes sir. ... .
uh
You won't always be the FBI Director? ' .
_That's right. I am confident oi that. I am with you a thousand
percent. _ _
Mr. Kelley, can you tell us when you first learned of the tiles that
_ .
Mr. Hoover kept that were called his confidential or OC files and
whether or not anyone within the Bureau knew about those files
and failed to tell you about them '? .n '
Jack, that's a long answer, but I will try to brief it. I first learned
of the possibility that thes
…[truncated]