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Mrs H W G111
IU Street__ h 1 _'Mobile Alabama 36606 -*92.!-
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Dear Mrs Gm
The copy of your letter dated October 24th
addressed to the Editor oi the "Mobile Press Register,"
together with the clipping you enclosed from the October
issue of that paper has been received It was certainly
thoughtful of you to furnish these to me and I want to express
my appreciation ior your kind comments regar my work.
Sincerely yours * »
J Edgar Hoover
- Mobxle - Enclosure
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In ahtelevision: interhiriew airedxonef KOCO-TV".1at"-'?5A7'p1';nl7;?§§§{T11/20/69 BELLI among many other gratuitous remarks,-2 commen;ed}?%f%;§;§@v,k~-.that FRAIQK SAWYIER old-time gangster and hoodlum! hadbeen?{*;?3§-f§.*f-"*1"?-. - .» ~ ~ ' ' ..-.. ~. I 1., >., 4 _ ..~,_.--. .I-@o4- -> ~1~ - , I -- 1
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Koco-'rv"' AMERICAN BROADCAST ' 2
HE LVI N D BELL I_ ,5? cont tore rs '1_a1 1'5.'<§»,_ _ ._ _ " H "'@§i?P§assa,ssig; -is p_resent1y.?f1n" -Ok1_ahoma .iC_j.__ty y?-?~w1_;ereA=§<;he?=ej,s#-flrepgjeiT§_x§__" Zti,:>-!
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.;é=maj City hias -.so_ little good= erv ce."» - ,is 331;. .t .ml ° §-l '°". q"_l_t_i:I"ir
ff-Igedggalocfors bii't i§' 1 e?-*?<4~ .1it§i§2s¥- y.-Er fa.-.<.=hir<>.-;42.P§ctors. __ .4 "-
'3 -The tobacco companies
4 ma-Y *1? 531213386 seriously .151??" 8 series of lawsuits t
led by the vi ti fl
.33 5115, ISO, tho.haliiicina¢-4 gtion-producing" ' d 1- =83
- '$¢i11es me'to deatli"" but'1 Qie think ' '_ 5 3'0"": people are
ilbeginning to" t rn awayggirom it. . 7 A
= a.Be1li said _he found little
,» !§l1a_§!@. first-class hote
ALL IN "iiW92T"C
¢"' Eat N D U 2'
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" " doesn't a city o'fW . . .§tl_ils:.size do" sometliing;..9" ~-"|X_8bOll§;'l8.t. he asked] ; ,_,.','$?fQ;ting' his. silver l ha_ir_-_,,just,above his collar, Belli,lcorniplained that his barber' gut $09 short last Friday}; '
TH said _a.' chiropractor
,éuréd hiin of "headaches
g failed to do so for 30 years.
Now he sees achiroprac-' u t" about
prove of young p ople's
ltlg stoned on bourbon I
do feel the kids have aafter m e d i cal doctorsn _n _
ii! Belli said LSD andother
'.§1_drugs5 -are .- a-3 menace.-.'young' people, but he sai '
_.most,of the students in his:'
filayg class at the Uniyersity"of" alifornia "- use " 'inari-¥.?jtei§ habitually} - -;
think'.this",'is "not_ as
fbad1'as getting drunk on
§1i_quor, because marijuana,
-__is_f'niot habit forming, there
-_=is no hangover and it
i'd_oe'_s_nt lead to [something%st:ronger." ' * - " .
Belli thinks liquor ads in
American publications;-tor regularly, 3 s ~_= -' - " - -
7:e"°"-"__9l?°?.h"E_§'__ i_ are an affront to.al1"of"*Hei . ni<,s .q92.15¢k§'T1us:'~¢i" i .
j °° 1d hell? 31¢ 19831 PF°f9$'_,fHé:jalso dislikes tobacco,
51°" 315°» adding! '1-'hat'5* and finds it»"utterly ama
why I m 5° successful ing" athat more lawsuit
Belli said he does not ape have not been filed b
families of cancer victimsEuse 01 maTlJ11aI929- ,, , He predicted one good law
But neither do I ap-i 'Sl.llt won in such a case
PTO/9 °f their Parents get would set off a chain that
could seriously hurt the to-
bacco ompamesnewt They re unhappy B sis representing Mi-..about their parents drunk iam: Jyl;-S B111 Dane and
""1955 And the Pafentig young daughters iniwho have a cocktail hour gmwsugts 11145;] again
every night are 1,
equioped to set example
TAINEDthe estate of the late Dr
Rober D ' McKee The
~Danes seek to recover
udgments totaling $1 mil
lion They claim the child
is seriously handicapped
because Dr McKee failed
to give Mrs Dane proper
pre-natal care before he
rth
The trial will be hel. --~.-92...-.~'- -¢.,. _92'.-_
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Date 1
Edition Evening
Author Mary Jo NelsonOklahoma; - I
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' ' Ben K West
Character
Claueiitccitlon O
Subinittlnq Oiticenklahomac
D Beinq investlqatedF?
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3 9155*-By Mary Jo Nelson4 sailgévin Belli flamboyantrancisco lawyer who2 defended Jack Ruby slay
er of President Kennedy s
7 assassin, said today? in
3 Oklahoma City he does not
9 approve of mariJuana.but
thinks it is no worse than
oalcohol
1 In the city for a legal
2 onference, the long3 iiged Belli spoke out ona
ar etyo topics4 Among other things} he
5says
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_ . _Yi_"-"- CF 711-
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August 13, 1970 Ip _l _ .
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Mr. Sidney Levin _ .-Executive Vice President and - _ J _
General Manager _ - ._vrmr Radio Station ims 3-5.6. .9.-'§}2:_, _1759 Bay Road < '9-J; ' __ -_ AMiami, Florida 33189 - - " "- :2.. ___.__»;_I
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Dear Mr. Levin: , _ l .§
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" Your letter of August 5th concerning . 2; -._92.':,. .
comments made about me overyour station has been - 3 '
received. While I appreciate your offer of time for1 .:'f
rebuttal, I feel that these scurrilous charges should i
not be digruiied by a reply. »_§__;
-
Sincerely yours, _ W> n
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August 5, i970
Mr. J. Edgar_Hoover 1,;Directon _ gggtr
Federal Bureau of Investigation ;@¥?"J1.92 -
Washington, D.C. _ ' v
Dear Hr. Hoover: .. 7 _-~¢
On Tuesday afternoon, August #,-at apprqmately 6:15 P.M.,@, Ain the midst of an interview; Hr. Melvin Belli, Attorney at 1 __*
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_ UNITED STATES GO....RNMEN'l
' Memorandum
Mr. Bisnqgflf ~
-
~._ UBJECT= MELVIN MZBELLI~
. CRITICISM OF DIRECTOR
38 AND FBI
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29' A review of this tape indicates it was a telephonic interview of Belli ;, concerning the remarks by President Nixon concerning the Manson murder.trial.};- ~~~ Belli was extremel ritical of the President's remarks and said the explanaontA+"-ifiaoffered by Ron gler was ridiculous. He said that Nixon had come from behind @_ __ _..._...n.. ..~_4. [email protected]..____.._ t, .'-~ ee,:.--_..;;_..<.-...-~.'1__......_ - . . . _ _ ___ ,.____._.-.. > 7 ~ '
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- DATE: 8 -13 -7 0 _ 4;-_. 5:2 .' -- Q
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» 31- .-- ~ --"1.:»-,-;i'§T-5T.;<i_. ' 'A Pi' . ' ' , _ ,5 _~-".<»,-'-~-¢~'¢.'*~5'»r ;_.."~ '.-.;;;= .= -, _ I . ._,::?...Q;; _¬:._-,'B__i_ _ By letter dated Agusut 5tli,_1l/I3_.____l92§i_a,n1i,___l=?lorida, forwarded a tape of an interview of Melvin Belli by an un_identi.fiedWKAT announcer which Mr. Levin considered a personal attack on the Director;and--H5;he offered time for the Director to reply to these charges. = 1"'_",:_
,0;-,~ his mask and revealed that it was he, and not Mitchell, who was attacking the judiciall
'2
part of law and order.
a INFORMATION IN BUFILES:
c tharcontroversy by his repeated attacks against the FBI as well as a number-of othera prominent National officials and institutions. In the past we have not dignifilped his 'harges wi eply and it is felt we should not do so in this instance = . >system and attempting to downgrade our institutions. He said that one is not suppose. to talk about Mr. Hoover and motherhood, but Mr. Hoover is doing more to damage- ' Country than anyone he could think of with his attacks on the Supreme Court. He saicbhe realized that the Director had "taken over a corrupt organization and built it into a Qfine one but this was exactly the danger because he now thinks his word is law. A-He '-'I referredto the "villainous semantics"of the Director in saying that justicefwas not '
ALL I:-zrcasz.- o'er-1 Cf!?-ITATNFJDH
HEREIN 1;: "1!" ;;"-'1'-D -V-;'~= -DATED ¢ U Bf nSfLTE£I7
Belli, a San Francisco attorney, is considered one of the hmostunotoriouscharlatans of the legal profession. He feeds on publicity and has provoked much Y
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M. A. Jones to Bishop Memo,
RE: MELVIN-M.'BEI§LI _A
RECOMMENDATION :
- That the attached letter be sent to Mr. Levin.'-1
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UNITED STATES b.!92'/ERNMENT
Memorandum A
7 1'0 = Mr. BiShOQ/!]-"'2/ - m.1"1-;; 10-14-70 -
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L 6APPEARANCE OF_ M_E_LYIN_BELLI,'_ ATTORNEY, ON
THE DAVID FROST SHOW, TELEVISION STATION '
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30' 92_"stinks of spying. " He stated he believed that a man's home is
3; wire tap. There was a discussion about the waste of manpower, .
3: were listening to dirty conversations at the present time.
3 S36- . In addition, he referred to a former Chief of Police in " 1.... _3-,1. Los Angeles, not identifying him, who had a dossier on everyone on the "as " *=-{West Coast. Belli said he could not understand why the collecti
39 information was necessary.
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4 2
4 3
4 4RECOMMENDATION:
None. For information. "15- - ' ..6 92/
4148
49
50I /.wrro, CHANNEL 5, a=so P. M. , TUESDAY, 10/13/70>
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I I31¢ Belli was one of two uests a earing on captioned's4 show32" - W C was m° it°red by S o reference was made 23.-/E the FBI or to the Director bu e , in scussion with Frost, made the_:,; following remarks of interest to the Bureau. ~. r .-
Belli discussed wiretapping briefly and stated he still. ¢_i.7;- -, T n
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INFORMATION CONCERNING , -~ ' - ~ - j
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3': 552$believed that wire tapping was morally and leg_al1y..wrong and that it ' 3
his castle
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Mr.. Director, FBI"~ __ ' ' _..~_1iATE: 6/2/ti ;-!9 _. _ _ _ _ 92 :1 '. V-' / .. J b- #:,,, , ,1 MnLvacn____.7L7_ - '
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_ y DEROGATORY COMMENTS MADE REGARDING .. 3 A.~ ' 1., . 5FBI AND THE DIRECTOR ;
" _ -bf. Q < ' I -__.?£f*¢T:TE As a result of information providedithe-Honolulu
3Office to
J! remarks re
b,7Director.
_ asfa res o ' ded a tape of
'* BELLI's§comments on S/5/89. J; r>>.. _ ;
e; Enclosed for the Bureau is a copy ohtheitape made
by the Honolulu FBI Office. Following is a transcription of
pertinent portions: =
"You_ta1k to any good cop and he'll tell you that he can
vwork-and live with Escobido, and he likes Escobido.
fEscobido being a case, of course, you'ye got to advise
- a_man that he has a lawyer and doesn'thhave~to say
anything without the presence of a lawyer, and they'll
get-you one if you don't;haye the funds._ I was over
in Vietnam not long ago as a guest of'the Government '
and I saw a little practice Escobido up there in the
3 front lines. -You have a man in combat.before the
T,92 ' .w~,92 .~ K-:
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him} why are you lagging behind, he's got to say I'll
furhish you a lawyer. And I say I go back home and tell
this to.the people and they'll think that we've carried
it to its utter sublime ridiculous. But thev said thatIO
up
has followed the troops. And we don't need,the fellowto prove what happened - the company commahder*has -
seen-it. 'So why not stick with3our original basic
got.to_accuse-an? the state has to prove a man guilty _' ' ' v tag. Tunjscr: MELVIN*'BELLI _ . , _ if imroxnzvrrou coucsmuue 7 OJ _,_;/- - "
s" ~ .!~ , @_,,¢ 'D C ?792_,.-'; <92,- :
fthe effect that MELVIN BELLI had madeLsome'derogatory "
thig's given us more morale over here - that-due Drocess 5 ,
premise that we're an accusatorialisoeiety you've Mfq92 ' A
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company commander can ask that man,if he's going to accuse
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' Spanish Inquisition and the continenta systemhere - we don't want that. I think more than ever, with all of these wiretapping devices and everythingelse that are being used despite the law - I think. - % the PBI's breaking the_law much more than some of ;§f_ lthese hoods." g>""* "Q: "What about this on the national level? TheDepartment of Justice says that it needs this evidence in order to convict the men who are running organized crime["That's a lot of hogwash! And I think Hoover's just as ldishonest as Dick Tracy is. They come up with they need all of this evidence. You know and I know down A in the bookstore in this hotel we can go down and Q get the Green Felt Jungle, we can get books, wecan get Life-Magazines, that give us a blueprint who are the hoods and who are doing these things. And if -Hr. Hoover doesn't know I can tell him. And I can {pick up a number of other guys who can tell him. He's igot it all in his files and he doesn't need wiretapping. ,:;@ ~What he wants to do is to make a national police force aggg. /and give the national police force the right of invading : i four privacy in civil as well as criminal matters. And . P '* with government by expedience and with the populationlexplosion, l_think it's one thing we have to be more = {careful of than anything else, and I hope that the~@present administration doesn't get the idea that we ought to have wiretapping, that we ought to give [Hoover more powers, and that we are coddling criminals.We re not.
The Bureau and San Francisco Office are being advised . of §ELLI's comments so that they can be aware of his attitudetowards the Bureau in possible future contacts. i i 1 _1
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Peb e's~.D;e.l;l:i;e d u!¢+* Chehgiisf:.§!'q- I .92.g..-.-~.~.. ; - - _, . ,3,
ERNEST if-Pa W-.'=i*.*.;$l1.14<><>r~ @-~'- ggxhmlher Bluff Wrllcr - f; _;i_w§_'$,;;g@l-_i~;7@l'Qt§0t.I_0l!f'
I--'1§1_ 4319' ?! lI?5.¢°.1T¬'@9T
dashed-Tback at the Santa
suz County Grand Jury which
accused?-'him of misconduct ill
body into session for p
iiivestlgation of yicei;-1-FEW
and eXt_.0l'U0l'l.' _- 1!Moores announcement;Qa'3'h__ 'mi the heels of his QPPEY4." -xi .
~~uperi_or court, where he _i8 _
mntly-f. denied each and __e__ve_ryaccusation leveled againstyhi
The distril:t attorney -sa.l__li*h_eowl» Pee:- = i"=»}l§° 1lviliewlelérference-f
H, _ ' _ ._ £1 K d-f-c9ndit.ions.-'-_He isvgepre}" flee by assertins,he_w9Q!'§¢.'5l! i _" _-tQ'd0>t!_l,.lX_ll_t?1l}t. and to bagk
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' m. Ii._, § 1 92I .,:1~'.TIL if ' i . g IMoore also snapped bacleat
inferences by the State attorney_l?llQl|'S office that the districta tozfpey was overrating",-the
charges, oore said-'.i_}-_:
res announcement of the
and jury inquiry high
fqi1__;';ipas injected into the ,i'ohg
slazliing countywide contro-l att°."929Y'5 defense ¢°92m$E1- '
y,e§sy,;;_There_,_were these other?'é§'cl0Dments: " -~'~':"-.-:4hj92§7the'grand'§921l'Y elldlai qqrohre ormer aide ':Rayf-392!$=6u5591'f'°m°m°e' - ' §= '_i__inpnd Jehl. I a_nd_ Sally,
w uld~eiJl upoh the ggrand-fT*§92 1Q g . . wmy,1. ;::gg1n.;.hE--new 1n,quir_y_ £0
whiobret declared that new;'_§I_1-
-wrmation concerning conditions
had come to his attention infre-rrnt dais] and indicated _l-9;'i,l'1_-_i.cnded__ press h_i1f_¢_1, ml?1'19 ?-5=.;I" D"?! 2 - .~
Cl'lES,BAR-PAYMENT- ' ,j_;;»;
Although-. Moore ae¢iiii_e<1,_§;_ts>
pinpoint __the_- new 'm3t?F1a1-sh?tang; a pinball distributor,-'_.iayiiso--appeared before Superior,-}
i-faiudge---James Atteridge andl}ii issued-..b l a. n k e t denials -tor
ibriberyi and extortioné.
chargesbrought by,the grands
-1"?~'5e"l?~."t"'*-i"~.=- f"~"! 3:@'1'~i'Y:'92§§§~92ii- -'2.-+l§loo92r,e's ..;defense__ -~c:>uns_el, Li -£r.1i@We?eh2?i?=2.i%§9vdif¢#
_.' attorn'ey,"§_ _béga h* Iissiiiiig sjtibl
. 5 p08Tl2.S! to -a-large~number~of
I county? residents, jincludinsays hfe hawhe- d¢¢1=>92r¢§1-fleiw-Nigiygipoiiee chiefs, twoabigm .
0 that itconcér'ned "vice, bribery"
and extorti-on,!_ In the only _ _ _ _ /Q 'tion,'_= and ,thre'e1__rrieg?i eifs b t I _ h d .- lm "l5u".1¢.° %'h°.'Qite-d'~<§,F 6grand jury. Dep_o ti%__h's;":"r"l u or warp C arge with
sald_he"would seek'indlctn}eu___S - "J
involving a. -Watsonville "
-J =1?Eh.operator whom he said has,ayjn a ::iV - ,. . ' - .-$52 a we? k-" _ If-.-_ ;;_;.;_Qperators of houses °opro§t1 _:
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SAN FRANCISCO EXAMINER
San Francisco, cam. .
December 9, 1955
Page 2m Col. 1,2,3
§SERiALlZED.....___.FlLED.____..
5 ' I 131:5
._ ~ 1iiglig id a.'da;';1n which fresh tll_l.1§::
M, g Presumably!? S P5".i,.{,;=?}';;&_ith_pieia;a not guilty andgtagbéh gaze shy ce c arg§s;,£§y¥]ei;;.trial was set for January 4.8 k 3_-g; fl.h__eir lndictinent. grew out ofEPARATE-ACTWN .-testunony before the grand jury-- _ -,..___</4+D ..' a to=r3'n'e§s,~ Mel-
yin elli an Francisco
regarded the two forthcomingactivities as separate under-I
takings. 3 p _-
spearheading the grandl
jury inquiry, the attorneys said,;
Mooréwill be acting to dis-
charge the duties of his o_fficé.."
» .ln issuing subpoenas for dep-
ositions, they added, the attor-|
_n,eys are acting as the district!
But 'therealso "were; indica-
tions that a rough" ro_ad lies
_ah_ead.< Sources close Ito the
grand jury indicated that body
jriay balk at undertakingqa new
_ijn_qi_iiiy aha broad hints""were
rolilped around the courthouse
[that Judge Atteridge may" have
lfteriality oi the depositions, 5:tiisomething to say about the ma-Q
';'§._;flhe &pPC&l'~'l.llC . of Moore, Jehli
iand Miano in superior Court
_i_ie'_re broii;;I'it the controversy in}
__ _ __ {which the yoiithiiii prosecutor:.tf;charge_s,__ag_a.inst-_ the _'district.i§_i_ncis himself lo a new high.
CHARGES MADE. Y";
;';;;Ieh_|,- the district- attorney's
jornier. consultant on~vice con-
ditions in the county, and
Miario, the pinball game dis.t .
bribery and extortion, ' '
including the charge that Miano
gave Jehl $4,000 to . protect"
Miano's pinball machines. .
.» Moore was arraigned on. a
non-criminal accusation of _ ' .,_,conduct in office that co »L92
sult in his removal from
if he is found guilty," '- _;
It was brought by the grandand Jam occardo of' San.
Jose, made it clear that they!
§r/hchéé '._;i~he'<éb..Q..jury berm-v~ which he appeared
shortly after ho tnok office last
__ January to charge that vice was
flourishing in the county,
Subsequently Moore accusedthree members of the jury,.92, r->4 .,5 4i'"
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Mr. :»i... ,.
Mr. Mufti-_ _>__
Mr. Iarsn'ig_Mr. Rose-'2. -
Mr. '
Mr.Tamm. ____ __ -y None ,___,____-3- w lt!fl'_"9',;d__
Tale. Roorn.___,__
Mr. lIo!lcmim____
.I-{inn Gen-!»_i ~92-I-.
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' A ' "'i*'e"'aif'fii'|i1s a pledge "
' . "I-arn1'tloing"z~in honest job 'an_d'a good job. I will neverdo anything to make my wife and seven kids or" my sup-porters _asha_rned of me. a 4 1 ' , . -. ' .9A sheriff _in this icounty can become independentlywealthy-=iri just;§qne.year, Brown bluntly stated, This I~_will never-do?! 11 ' " ' ~ ' ".
.51 living-on" my salary, which I said I would dd.
This is-not easyias there are lotsof additional expenses as'a-publieofiicial thatI'had_nt- gured on. ' I ',
5" - The sheriff said he has just borrowed money to painthis house.a_nd-he is paying of_£ a new car. He added that hehas not yet_been 'ab1e'to pay .George Newell the funds ad-.v'anced__d_uring thecampaign but he certainly intends to do
5°~-- '.- - w4 ' 'Brown disclosed that so,far he has turned over to thecountyabout $7,000 which he is legally entitled to keep aspart of his sheriff's fees. He is the first sheriff in thiscounty toido so. Othersheriffs in non~chartered countiescurrently keep these funds, as allowed by state law. -' ' Brown said he haslearned a lot since Januar ' 92 Y- - " 4
?>ehool of hard knocks - < .
4 l have learned not to knock my he.-ad against a stonewall in trying to get things done. Ix-lartinez has taught me2 lot. I am going slower. , - -
He added there are many things yet to be changed in hisQdepartment, He emphasized the need for a new prisonfarm, which could becompletely self-supporting and evenraise food for theicounty hospital and juvenile-home. -The water at the present farm is contaminated, hesaid,_»a_nd-_it costs the county $60 a day to bring in water.Prisoners carry water to theirbarracks from the tank intin cans andguards bring water in thermos ;jugs1fromt ei:"homAes.'Farm facilities are inadequate and the countys ould be ashamedfojf_'it.'V 1 i ~ -- »-1 ,-_Brown stated he-is tryir_1g'to get the county _to,act ont isand other problems.. " . ~ -1 _I-I 1;, R'mr!'-in-11l__.mui-.
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.- 92 - " "..~.: J-*1 ¢'.~ - -13I _ - | f ' . .note in _,-our. mrsdag edition of th§§:roit Free};-355 am ;;_.ti¢J__qmp¥'.Meb1!i_ni 9292 '7 U IE§%__]._1l___i; headed::~§:Q:over B.uns__ §.'_iB.__'l._____IdA_ke_Persqne.l 8.fi'.' wherein he takes a w'ho1'1y'
' Talited SW1-P9 if J5 Mgar Hoover and the way he runs the F. B. I. 4 n
zation as it should be run. __1h__e_sef political bandits would like to make Hoover submiss
to their will and to go lightly on certain cases because of the influence they allegedly
- hold with the voters, which in most cases is purely illusive. i 1-i
ihigh-up
'; ization
hQtS 0
try andThis is but one of hundreds of attempts by certain high up government offiqialg
nd others with a political pull to curb Hoover$8 operation of the F. B. I and to make
him susversive to their wishes So f th h ' i . ar ey ave failed and Hoover runs that huge 01-gem
it
.
Hoover however pave little attention to these requests whether they come from L
officials or from elsewhere, and runs the department as he thinks it shoulx be mg
So far in tthe thirty or forty years he has been at the haed of this great emf
there has never been a scandal or a question of influence, and that riles the big
When ther find out they can't run t Ithe F. B. I. their next move is to .
unseat Fiiotreer , which usually runs a certain course and then dies out. .
Hoover runs this department slo efficiently that no President had dare-:1 remcvii-[him . The public would rise up in '.-math at any such attempt. Tfley insist that the bi-8
shots, in government and out, leave him alone and let him run the department, as othe rs"
I run theirs. The public has confidence in Hoover. They show none to his detractors.
They should knew enough by this time to let well enough alone.
wt e
W41/ 11 ssei.;-/
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. -. - - " ..~- R J , M w'1< 2 e it ~ "4' / To , r. 1c DATE. 25 6 Hag ,_ __
yam-xv -, -
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I Candy _i_. "
1' SUBJECT: _ "P_I.|AYBO.Y!' MAGAZINE _ " _=- M1§.RCH, 1966 .,. _ 92* I A
P _L DISCUSSION: "'I, ..,.-,,'?;-.-_;;/L/'~¬1=<l92il_':s1s IN LAW ENFORCEMENT """"'/ . - / W,;; 1. _4_ 1 I-__0: '. » .
,=_92,.',_,./_;v;_ _,, _,__-,,_;_ , Captioned magazine att includes apanel discussion on allegedinfring_'ment of constitutionalaking part are
§u_byersiv¢_2¢1?Y_=;r§
A4n.<2£i@....§iyl1.L5l>'éi¥TéSsilhiolf »r el_"i_c;:_ig_l_1_t_gn__o_f_,_Q1_1_ff<_: a@; the I well as :er}% QC 'University's Fred Inbau California School of 'Tlriminology. ' J9-if/71'-/r . //, ,-= / .- P /./, /,§' .;_".-;=/1»- /1; . ../;<:.
As expected, all but and Lohman bitterly attack law enforcement with
"mphasis on their own particular c_. .- omplaints. Some of the strongest references emanate
from ex-Agent;Turner, who criticizes. . law enforcement in general anc_l_the FB_I in »_ 1--articular on such points as alleged illegal arrests, wire tapping, overeinphasis on . '
statistical accomplishments, abuse of civil liberties, invasion of privacy and polygraph use.
. The "Playboy" spokesman ridicules the upswing in crimes and attemptsZo establish the point that the Director and others who abhor "coddlin"g of criminals" areat war with those who support civil liberties. One main point of discussion revolves about
the interrogation of suspects with and without an attorney. :5 < s
,5/I/_92I11bau and X11n1é}'1 feelrecent Supreme Court decisions re individual rights
have crippled law enforcement. The rest of the panel vehementl ar t thy gue o e
contrary,ment1on1ng McNabb, Mallory, Gideon and Escobedo decisions Methods
of i t,_ n errogation are discussed with the same split of opinion as previously indicated.Some 11ighl~'<Thts of points discussed are as follows:
/;;~, ,1. ,4"/./1*/ / /1
Pemberton rambles loudly and at length about civil liberties.
' Rustin feels Negroes are victimized and tricked into confessin to '_ g C11II18S theygdid not commit. Als0,that vagrancy laws and the bail bond sys_t_e_n__i__discriminatei 92,zigai.inst ~.~';~.2¬-~_ ;~<-.<.."3!}¬":pc.?°1" ' 1 . BEG 53. ;""/r/§:¬7¢-if ,. ', __ __:_,;fg,*i,f§> 'fPen11_;k_ér_ton strongly criticizes the "stop-and-fri.sk" stgtutégR In:bal§5° 'Q .M vigorously supports. these where reasonable suspicions exist,__m___ __' ' n= In discussing" no-knock-and-enter" laws, Turner mentions page 54! an ,_ FBI motel raid where Agents allegedly shot. 2 an innocent man in the face when he _
_;»_N no@h. He apparently refers to an incident on 2-12-53-gclosure l_I'<11q<;;95;7.¢_/-'1 Mr. DeLoach 92 - .
"NI-T92 "1-1<'92'1$_'92!l ~~ RQSEI1 1 - T92.'Y!. ..'!r:nr921" 1 - ./Ir .Q11ll1!rr>9292 .. T92!92'v-. '."='=:".-1=--
Jones to Wick; memo
RE: '"Playboy" Magazine
when Los A ele t ' A ng _s_Agen s raided a motel om o u ' two en b Alieved to be
badly wanted fugitiv an After
announcing their identity, e occupants slammed e oor, rapping an
Agent's arm and one shot subsequently fired by this A.gent$ struck one of the
occupants on the bridge of the nose superficially wounding him. While a most '
unfortunate occurrence, the Agents actions were not near as irresponsible assuggested in this article. ,- , c
.- I92J
,.-n makes reference to a raid in the 1930's, apparently referring
to th case.WU
Belli, Pemberton and Leighton decry "hysteria" over crime in the streets
claiming this is overemphasized; Turner agrees, claims he made arrests as an!Agent he is ashamed of just to "play a numbers game'Y and to justify appropriations-
;he suggests this could be controlled by reducing appropriations.
Cook ridicules FBI crime statistics; Inbau strongly defends them.
In discussing wiretapping, Turner says he did this in the Bureau though
clearly illegal. Pemberton then quotes a 940! statement by the Director
deploring wiretapping. _
Turner states that while the Bureau admits the number of wires tapped,
they don't say how many "bugs" are used.
92 Turner, in discussing mail covers, suggests that his mail to publishers
gis being watched because of his criticism of the Bureau. .
In discussing covert surveillances. Belli Jarticularl criticizes " ee hole" 's . Ptypes; Turner says he has done it even the-ugh unconstitutional and "I hated it. "
In discussing polygraphs, Belli states he has used them and found themtvaluable; Turner alleges that although the Director has stated his distrust of
. gpolygraphs, the Bureau uses them on its own personnel.
; Regarding civilian poilice review boards, Rustin and Pemberton argue for
1 their establishment; Inbau argues against such boards.
3 Belli alleges the Director and others are greedy for power and want a
x police state.
_.'. ,1. _. If /Leighton is highly laudatory of the Chicago Police Department as anexampl of great improvement. I J -- /-
OBSERVATIONS: '
of misfits and there appears to be no value in debating with this magazine or this panel,. I Little new in the line of criticism has been presented by this collection H.
all of whom except Inbau and Lohman being notably antagonistic toward the Bureau. The _
,7 only dignity that might descend on this sorry group would be recognition of any type from v*f1 ' '
ignoring this cheap attempt to enmesh the Bureau j n'the_i_r'pc:tty<gri ances._ K. -.
f._'-." .'f!92lE.NDATlQN: For information. 92/ 92/l! L Z-.
.92
_ I
' DO'5
FEDERAL BUREAU OF 92NVESTlGATlONUN92TED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. ,-
|-_._---'J ' 1 /!l R. TOLSQN --or=r=|c:-: o|= D92RECTOR OE_L°,¢,l,/.
/Aépz AH ANr Q .17* , V -~ R. CONRAD/ R EELT
~L a~ MB-. ..,92, MR.
. . _. ~=--" MR
MR
Q from A. c. SPECTORSKY Ma. /79"-$¬f{ '
é§""%;/~ '
MR.___,_§
GALE ,_.<--
ROSEN -
SULLI __j-;-
T AVEL ___¢--- ~
TRQTTER __,_-J
MR. JONES _____--4
YELE. ROOM _j__-
MISS HOLMES §___--
Dear Mr . Hoover:.-MRS. u92E'rcA92.f ',.._1.r--"~" -92 I.-/AMuss cmuov
It is our pleasure to send youtearsheets from the March issueof_P_L_.{>,§_BQ_Y_ and call your __attentionto T139/Playboy Panel-/ Hisis InLaw Enforcement". The members ofthe panel are Melvin Bell}, Fred§ook, Fred Inbau, George Leightgg,Joseph Lohman, QgQg_Eemperton, Q1 ,Bayard Rustin and;illia@_Tu3ge;.
We would be delighted to hear --5 Yould certainlv value ~- any'1 92!$~' Ti H . . L _ .. .; T? tnoughts you nave concerning tnis
.1 Q .,.1,/" {g feature which we might use in our" 7 Letters to the Editor column.
Cordiallj, f.,_'J 3. "
W
I 92. K : " '-.' '. - .92§?*§ ' A -"'Y#'}:" °k"'"~_Q|!Q% k A.CR!>¢Qrslcy /6L; .
§
-K/Q!.
Editorial Director _
PLAYBOY '
rnavnov / 232 eostohio-chiicoqoll »1
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Y; ' r92"~»<_if> " .
rliscussion Tl-id PLALYBUX PAN EL:
a tz'm_el} debalc on civil authoritarianism and its infringement on t/ze.constiiutional rig/its qf t/ze individual
. /--" .:
PANELISTS
MELVIN M. BELL! gained international no-
toriety two years ago this month when
he publicly denounced the l!allas death
sentence for his client _]ack Ruby, mur-
derer of Lee lrlartey !sw:tld, as "the
shotgttn justice of ;t kangaroo court."
Ilttt Belli had already been one of tlte
tnost flamboyant, contentious and able
ornaments of the .-92merican bar for
many years. .-92u embattled defender of
indivitlttal rights in huntlreds of crimi-
ltal cases and personal-injury suitsf0r
wltich he pioneered six-figure awztrds--he _.
is a champion of the underdog and an
avowed enemy of what lte calls "tlte
fascistit. cop mentality." Author of manystantlartl texts on trial law, a frequent
lecturer on courtroom procedure, a pop-
ular and outspoken guest on TV dis-
tussion shows and :t contributor of
polemical opinion pieces to various na-
tional magttzittes, he has also been the
subject ol a t.t!|ttt'o92el'$i:tl Playboy Inter-
virtu June 1965!.
FRED COOK is the author of ll books and
lutndreds of ntagztzine articles, many of
them trenchant exposes of scandals and
miscarriages of justice in the fields of
law enforcement and civil libcrties-
labors tltat have earned him admirers
and enemies in equal measure. 92Vinner
of the I961 Sidney Hillman Award and
three-time witutetj of _the New York
;92et92;spaper -;uild's Page _Oue .*92t-::::'tl for
l|is*jotn"nalistic pttblic service, he made
the best-seller lists in I96-l with The I-BI
Nulmrly Knuats, a ltard-hitting docttmen-
tary eye opener that pttnctttred the pop-ular myth of FBI expertise in spy chasingand crime detection, and deplored hotlt
the autocratic power antl the right~wing
political philosophy of its hitherto sacro-
sanct director, _]. lidgar l-loove-r.
FRED E. INBAU is t't-_-_-artletl as the nation's
foremost expert on police interrogation.:92 onetime practicing attorney and
former director of the Chicago Police
Scientific Irime l!etet'tion l.aboratory,
he is ctnrcutly at professor of law at
l92'0rt|ttt-estern University and editor-in-chief of the school's journal of Crim-
tnctl Law, Criminology am! PoliceScience. Widely respected in police cir-Cles for his many authoritative articlesand books on scientic and psychologicalmethods of questioning criminal suspects,I,- j .
ssottc: N_._tE|ot-tron, judge of the Circuit
Court. Criminal Division, of Cook
County Chicago!, Illinois. since I96-l,has a long history of witnting and making
controversial decisions. In addition to utt-
merotts civil rights victories as a defense
attorney in Southern courts, Leighton
won freedom in I952 for an Illinois con-
92'ict alter I7 years of imprisonment for a
critne he didn't commit and. in :t widely
publicized eleventh-hour rescue, saved a
condemned convict from exectttion in
1963. Even tnore celebrated was his un-
precedentetl exoneration last year of two
Puerto Rican boys charged with attack-
ing two off-duty Chicago policemen withbroken beer bottles and putting one of
them in the hospital with multiple
slashes on the face. His decision was based
on evidence that the boys acted in self-
defettse when one of the policemen used
excessive force itt making an improper
arrestagainst which the citizen has a
right to defend himself. - .- 4
JOSEPH 0. tontvtm, dbém oi the Scliool
of Criminology on the Berkeley campus
of the University of California, brings to
the academic world a wealth of practical
experience in law enforcement: as the
fomter chairman of the Parole and Par-
don Board of lllittois, onetime sheriff of
Zook County. Illinois, and founder of
the Southern Police Institute in Louis-
ville. Kentucky. He is also a member of
the Pt"e.'.5;letat's Committee "or: juvenile
Delinquency and Youth Crime, and a
consultant to police departments itt Chi-
cago, Denver, Louisville, St. Paul, Wash-
ington, Pittsburgh and New Orleans.
JOHN ~PEMB§R]'ON, JR., is the national
executive dirt-iclor of the /92tnerican Civil
Liberties Union, the most militant pri-
vate agency dedicated to the protection
of individual rights against encroach-
ntettt by atultorit'arian power. .-92ntong its
many legal battles on behalf of minority
groups and unpopular causes. the ACLU
has even fought for the right of arch-
reactionary right-wing grottps to en-
joy the constitutional privilege of free
assembly at meetings where the ACLU
itself has been condemned as a branch
of the Communist Partywhich it em-
phatically isn't, though it has often
fought just as hard to safeguard the same
right for American Reds. Petnberton is_;V ~ ..
t- -- -_ ' . ;Tlr";~" - 1" .
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the immoralilies it seeks lo clinnunte.
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bul Iliey don! /u-silnln lo slop ;,;,-11.
dressed Negro businessmen in Harlem.
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terrorize rutltrr tI:anitt[orrn the public.
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of his rights to 'UllIl.T " nml Io rt-main
sih-nl, Ihr fmlire shouhl he ]n'rtniItr l to
interrogate him exactly as they wish.
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BAYARIYRUSTIN, exetutite director of tl
A. Philip Randolph Institute, an activist
civil rights organivation. has been an
articulate, versatile ghter for racial
equality ever sittce he was youth organ-
izer of tlte ISM] Negro hfareh on 9292ash-
ington aud- rst eld secretary of tlte
then newly organized Congress of Ra-
cial Equality. In the course of an ener-
getic and checkered career, he has spent28 months in a Federal penitentiary as a
conscientious objector, led sit-ins at the
British Embassy in Washington as chair-
man of the Free India Committee,
served 30 days itt a chain gang for lead-
ing a Freedom Ride through North Caro-
lina, and helped Dr. t92lartin Luther
King organize the historic Montgomery,
Alabama, bus boycott. Itt 1963 he was
deputy director of the second March on
9292ashington, and tlte following year he
engineered the New York City school
boycott. "His whole life," in the words
of one reporter, "has been spent in a
confrontation with police power."
WllllAMlURNER,_ a former FBI agent and
wire-tap expert, rst came to public no-
tice ve years ago when he wrote to Sen-
ate and House committeeswhile still
employed by the Bureaudemanding an
investigation of FBI disciplinary meas-
ures. Immediately dismissed, he took to
the air on both coasts to broadcast
stinging criticisms of FBI policies and in-
vestigative methods. Since then, he has
become a writer on modern police-science
techniques for the legal and criminol-
ogy press, consulting editor for Police
Science Library, and a free-lance con-
tributor of general articles to major
national magazinesspecializing, natu-
rally enough, in investigative reportage.
He is also writing a book, In Light and
Shadow, about the boom in scientic
crime-detection methods and their possi-
ble threats to civil liberties.
PLAYBOY: Amid a mounting chorus of
ominous warnings by law-enforcement
agencies of a rampaging upsurge in crime
-at a rate five times faster than the na-
tional popttlatiott growth, according to
the Flllthe issue of - violence in the
streets" has become both a tabloid catch
phrase and '1 political football. Ignoring
uneqtlivocal statements by equally re-
sponsible authorities that the number of
violent crimes, far from increasing. has
actually been cut in half during the past
30 years, many pundits, prosecutors and
police officials have found a convenienttvitttessetl in tny years of law e|tfor 'c-
'mentan overzealous pity for the crim-
inal and an equivalent disregard for his
victim."
Foremost among the historic Supreme
Court decisions deplored by l|nnver-
and ltztiled by civil libertarians---at'e the
Mapp. the .92lcNabb-.92lallory, the Gideon
and the Escobedo cases, as they are
popularly known. Briey stated, the
Mapp decision outlawed any use itt state
courts of evidence obtained by illegal
house search without a warrant. In the
Gideon case, the Cottrt ruled that any-
one accused of a serious offense, if un-
able to afford a lawyer, has a right to
court-appointed counsel. The .92IcNabb
and t92lallory decisions disallowed the use
of confessions in Federal trials whenever
Federal officers fail to bring the suspect
before a magistrate "without unnecessary
delay" so that he can have a preliminary
hearing upon the accusation made
against him. And in the widely reported
case of- Escoberlo vs. Illinois. the Court
voided a Chicago laborer's murder cott-
fession because police had refused to let
him see his attorney before his interro-
gation, even though the lawyer was in the
station house at the time.
Angry prosecutors have protested that
almost nine out of ten convictions are
based on a plea of guilty or some other
form of confession. Disallowing confes-
sions, they argue, will fatally shackle law-
enforcement officers and remove the last
restraints on a rttna9292':t!' crime wave. At
loggerheads with this view are those who
point to such cases as that of George
92Vhitmore, _]r., a Negro trttcker's helper,
convicted and jailed in New York City
in 1964 for the murder of two girls on
the strength of a six-page confession,
who was later proved innocent when
i_n!;est_igati92'e work turned_upkthe real
murderer and prove-d 9292-'ltitmurc's elab-
orately detailed confession to be false;
and that of the knife murderer of Kitty
Cenovese, who carried ottt his crime
uttder the eyes of 38 witnesses in Kew
Gardens. Long Island; he later em-
barrassed police by confessing another
murder to which they already held a cott-
fession from another man. Pondering
how these false confessions were XlI:lClt' l
in the rst place, the public has not been
reassured by declarations such as the one
made last year to a Harper's magazine re-
porter by former New York City deputy
police commissioner Richard l!oughert_v:
It is hardly news that suspects of seriousi
t
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t~ll't-ct. permit nu'92-_questiouing. an e
.~.ituation is bectnningi|tt0ferabft:.-_,.t a
recent case itt 9292"ashington, f!.C., for
example. botlt tlte District police and the
l"llI were checking on :t batik robbery.
They got :t hot tip on a suspect attd in-
forntatiott gootl cttottglt to jttstify issuing
a warrant for his arrest. .-92fter his arrest,
on the way to the police station, the
arresting officers stopped under a street
ligltt and questioned the suspect for a few
mittutes. He told them freely that he ltad
committed the robbery, even told them
where to nd the gun and _loot. They
wcttt there attd fouttd that lte w:|s telling
the truth. But the Court of Appeals for
the District of Iolumbia. acting in ac-
cordance with the .92lci92'abh-Mallory rttle,
held that the cottfession atul the gun
and the money could not be used as evi-
dence against the bank robber because
of the delay of mere minutes in getting
him before a Federal magistrate. Com-
mon sense says the .92lc.92'abb-.92lallory rul-
ing cripples law enforcement, and this is
one factor that accounts for the increase
in crime in the District of Columbia
attd elsewhere.
t.E|GH1oN= Fred. you cite the increase of
crime in 9292'ashington since the =92fcNabb-
i92l.tllory decision as though one owed
from the other, bttt yott ltaven't shown
any cause-and-effect relationship between
tltese two facts. Since I've been sitting on
the bench of the criminal division of the
look County Circuit Court, I have lis-
posed of I35 cases. bttt in not a single
one has the right to interrogate suspects
been important to the prosectttion of
the case. In any event. these decisions
are now the law of the land, and the
police have no choice but to obey.
INBAU: That's the very fact I'm lament-
mg.
PLAYBOY: 9292'ould yott favor passing legis-
lation to grant the police broader inter-
_Fog.t't'iottal powiersiithan the courts now
.~..permit?
INBAU: Indeed I would. 9292'e urgently need
legislation permitting police a reasonable
opportunity to interrogate criminal sus-
pects before arraignmettt--L'ind without
a lawyer present; for his attorney, as
I said before. is going to tell him to keep
his tnotttlt slntt.
lEtGHTON: But he has a perfect righl to
keep his tnotttlt sltttt. l:twyer or no law-
yer. The only purpose there could be in
keeping ltitn from seeing his lawyer at
that point is to keep him from knowing
and-exercising his constitutional right to
keep his motttlt shut. The major point
behind these criticisms of the I92Icl92'abb-
.92lallory. Gideon and Escobedo decisions
is that the pro-police people don't want
any laws of any kind to govern the cott-
dttct of the police. Do you deny that a . _'
tiott beginsbut by the police, not at
attorney.
LOHMAN: As a fortn-.'r police officer, I
must :tgrt't' tltat ntatty cases" 9292at'rant brief
questioning before bringing the suspect
to a tnagistrate. !nt"t: a utatt has been
informed of- his rigltts to counsel and to
remain silent. the police sltottld be per-
mitted to interrogate him exactly as they
wish. So long as the suspect knows92of his
right to rt-nutin silent. it's senseless to
forbid his being interrogated.
tNBAU= Let me give you an example of
the atrocious damage that results from a
strict application of these rules against
police interrogation withottt the pres-
ence of an attorney. In New York several
years ago :t doctor was mttrtlct'ed :tttd
his wife was altttost killed by a tnatt who
was bnrglarizing their house. She was
takctt to a hospital. Itt the doctor's
house. police found a discarded bloody
shirt. One of the doctor's white jackets
was missing. Police also found a set of
keys on the floor. By checking the laun-
dry marks in the shirt, police tracked
dowtt a suspect. He had the doctor's
jacket. The keys found at the scene
fitted the suspect's locker. 9292heu he was
taken to court and charged with the
mttrder. he was carefully informed of his
rigltt to counsel attd asked if he had a
lawyer or wanted the court to appoint
one. He asked for time to think it over.
The judge gave him a day. Right after
that court session, the police took the
defendant to the hospital. where the
doctor's wife idetttified him as the killer.
He was later tried and convicted, but
the Federal Court of Appeals ruled that
the state had to try the man ngnin, be-
cause the police had violatcd his rigltts
by taking him to the hospital when he
didn't have a lawyer to advise him. That
kind of excessive judicial nicety is dan-
gerous nonsense. _ .
PEMBERTON= You seem to regard the civil
liberties granted by the Bill of Rights as
nit-picking technicalities. Well, they ex-
ist to protect ottr concept of what is de-
cent in a civilized society. On one hand.
the government represents a tremendous
power with imntetisc rcsottrces to investi-
gate and prosecute. The individual, even
the wealthiest attd most powerful indi-
vidual. has no comparable financial or
other resour'ces, and the indigent suspect
ltas so little comparable power as to call
it nonexistent. It is unseemly that such
a powerful government should rely on
an individual's owtt words to justify
what the government has already done
-that is, take him"into custody atid
deprive him of his liberty. Let that im-
mense power find probable cause for_ __ _ um, _ _ __ ___--_-.-_.._...._.._,.-.- .........-..- . -_-
; K '
notttlts. l'ht :tcctts'ctlt-s|it-cially the in
nocent and, hence. presttmably inexperi-
enced accuseti:tre at a dis'atlvant:tgt- itt
a tttilcst witlt the police and pt'osccttto|'.
9292'ithottt the help of an attorney learnetl
in law attd sopltisticztted in the ways of
police tactics. the innocent suspect c:nt
be tricked ittto convicting himself with
words from his owtt motttlt.
RUSTIN: Let me tell you something about
that cop mentality. In Harlcnt at least.
police officers are judged in part by their
record of arrests and percentage of cott-
victiotts. For that reason, many juve-
niles. unprotected by the constitutional
safeguards that adults enjoy in normal
totu'ts'. are often persuaded by police to
plead guilty to a lesser oflettse than the
arrt-stittg charge t:92en though they're
completely ittttocettt of any wrongdoing.
Ilecause these youngsters don't know
their rights. they're tricked into building
up the police record of :trrests and
convictions.
TURNER: Mr. Rustin's experience in Har-
lem is not unique. Virtually all law-
ettforcement agencies featlter their nests
with statistics. It's a known fact that
traffic officers work on a quota system
of arrests. expressed or itnplicd. It's ttot
as well known, bttt so do criminal in-
vestigators.
PLAYBOY: D0 the rest of you gentlemen
agree with .92lr. Rttstit|'s contctttion that
jttvenile-cottrt procedures deprive teen-
agers of constitutional safeguartls en-
joyed by adults?
PEMBERTON: It's a very real problem. The
American Civil Liberties Union is cur-
rently imestigating the case of a _ju92e-
ttile in Pennsylvania who was jailed on
hearsay evidence without an attorney
and without beittg told what the charges
against him were.
lOHMAN: .92lany agencies are studying
youth _cQttr_ts__to introduce reforms to eit-
stire that juveniles will enjoy the same
safeguards as adults. But I would not go
so far as to suggest. as some have. that
juvenile courts be replaced by adult
courts. A few adult courts. in fact. are
adopting some juvenile-court procedures.
The juvenile court ltas shown us that
wrongdoing is not always willfttl. 9292'e
don't wattt to deprive yottthful offenders
of their civil liberties. bttt we must cott-
titttte to treat the problem of critninztl
responsibility of the very young as quite
different from the responsibility of the
mature. Itttleed. we should emphasi'/e the
difference even more than we do now.
PLAYBOY: Do you agree with those who
feel that socially attd economically utt-
derprivileged adult defendants are de-l
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wrongin the view of tnost informi
antl reasonable observers. In the hope ol '
assessing the valitlity of these polar views,
and thtts of arriving at a ntore realistic
appraisal of the problem. t't..-tvnov has
convened this panel of well-known au-
thorities on law enforcementrepresent-
ing every shatle of opiuionfor a
discussion of the issues involved. Gentle-
men; let's begin by asking whether you
feel that the controversial Supreme Cottrt
decisions we've cited protect the rights
of the indivitlual or "cotldle the crim-
inal." as the police allege.
|NBAU= In my opinion, these decisions
have had a crippling effect on law
enforcemem. Because of the I92IcNabb-
Mallory antl Escobedo rulings, police are,
for all practical purposes, prevented
from interrogating suspects in private.
It's usttally useless to interrogate a sus-
pect with his attorney present; any law-
yer worth his salt is going to tell his
client to slutt his mouth and keep it
shttt. Some judges are ttnrealistic; they
don't realize that most crimes are solved
not by fancy detective work from clttes
left behintl by the criminal. bttt rather
by skillful interrogation behind closed
doors.
TURNER: I think it's often the police de-
partments. not the jutlges. who are un-
realistic. Once they get a confession,
they think they have a case all locked
up, antl this leads to sloppy corrobora-
tive tlt-tective work. Then. when they go
to ctvtrt antl have their case shot full of
holes, they wail that the court is cotltlling
the criminal.
B_Elll: If any D.A.s antl police chiefs are
reading this. I'd like to straighten them
ottt on a couple of basic misapprehen-
sions before we go any further. First
of all. if we're coddling anyone, we're
codtlling the accused, not the criminal.
Seconcl-ly~,-_';cotltlling" t's hardly the word
to tlescribe the court's and the counsel's
effort to guarantee the inalienable rights
outlined in our Constitution to every
'lll7. ll.
PEMBERTON: I agree. The Supreme
Ionrt_'s devotion to ottr basic"constittt-
tional rig-Ins isn't pzunpt-ring trimiuals;
il'-92' sitnply being true to ourselvt's antl
our tletnorratic lit-ritage.
LEIGHTON: I agree. But if I may return to
l't'oft'>~or lnbaus implication tlt:tt re-
strictions on interrogation are leading to
an increase in critne, l tlo not know of a
single statistical proof that these recentdecisions have ha_mpered police. Professor
ltlbau says that interrogation is an indis-
pensable part of police work. but I amtoltl that FBI police-academy instructors
emphasize just the opposite view. Theyinsist that any intelligent investigator
can usually reconstruct the crime by
clues found at the scene. Even when
"'1'"? lire few tluts. ltowever. there's nohad several burglaries totaling Sl5t!,0tlO
worth of diamond-cutting tools. .-92 bril-
liant police official atlrertised in all the
papers: "9292'anted: diamontl-cutting tools.
Buyer will pay top prite." 9292ho should
show up with a greedy grin bttt the
burglar's fence.
|NBAU= lertainly there is an occasional
opportunity for that kind of police
work. But reality is usually different.
Take the hypoth_etical case of a woman
rapetl in a_dark alley. All she can report
is that her assailant was a white man
around 5 feet, 8 inches tall, wearing a
blue shirt and dark trousers. The victim
was struck on the head and bled profuse-
ly. Now. suppose a gas-station attentlant
reports that a certain white man about
5 feet, 9 inches tall, wearing a blue shirt,
borrowed a key to the men's room that
same night to wash what appeared to be
blood from his hantls. Of course, that
doesn't mean that this particular man
committed the crime. N0 sensible judge
or jury would convict on such feeble
evidence, and the police would not want
them to: but the only way to nd out if
this fellow is guilty0r innocent, for
that matteris to question him. This is
the way most crimes are solved. But I
want it clearly understood that the police
should not be p_ermittetl any rough stuff,
or to use any interrogation tactics or
techniques that are apt to make an in-
nocent man confess.
l.ElGHlON= Now we're getting to the heart
of the ntatter: _]ust what is "rough stuff"?
Police coercion need not be physical;
psychological coercion can be just as
punishing antl persuasive.
BEl.L|= And reprehensible. Perhaps the
rubber hose is not so standard a piece of
police equipment as it once was, bttt
today there are far more sophisticated
niedtggs of torture in daily use. X92Je..all
concede that a man must not be forced
by rack, wheel or thumbscrew to confess
a gttilt that isn't true. But I see little
tlifferencc between whipping a_ man and
brainwashing him. or scaring him half
to death. A tlishonest intcrrogator, for
example, can isolate :t suspect who is
ignorant of his rights and u|'|protectttl by
an attorney. antl tnttrtnttr sympathetically
to him. "Too bad you can't be home
taking care of your family. 9292'e lhinl: your
wife is going to be all right, bttt she's
coughing pretty batl. Of course, the doc-
tor is doing all he can. but slte's calling
for you. Now, if you'll just tell us all
about it, you can be out on bail in an
hour to take care of her." 9292'ell, that poor
fellow will say just about anything to get
out antl look after his wife.
COOK: Another equally effective and in-
sidious technique is to subject the sus-
pect to hours antl hours of questioning
lw rl'l:|92'< nl ilulnrrnn-nr9292-c It.-----II» -. stl. That last brut-2 who was so rough
oit yOll is a real-heel antl I heartily dis-
approve of his methods. But you antl I
are friends. We can do business. Have a
cigarette antl tell me all about it." Essen-
tially, that's the technique the Chinese
Reds used in Korea to brainwash prison-
ers. Today it's a statttlartl tecliuique of
virtually all American investigative
agencies. Professor Inb_au's own textbook
on interrogative techniques recommends
this very use of alternate interrogators
with different personalities and ap-
proaches. Finally, a suspect gets tired:
he's half-dead for lack of sleep: his brain
and will are numbed from grappling
with his emotional reaction to the two
different personalities, and he'll say any-
thing the police waut hint to say. During
the hours of questioning. the police have
drummed into him all the details he
needs to make an elaborate confession as
though from his firsthand knowledge as
the guilty man. They have repeatedly
asked, for instance, "Weren't you at First
Avenue and Sixth Street at 3:30 .s..92t.
with a switchblade in your pocket?" That
makes it easy for him to confess having
been exactly where the police want him
at the time they want him there.
PLAYBOY: .-92re yott saying that the police
deliberately feed suspects these details in
order to extort false confessions?
COOK: Not deliberately, no. But there is
a very pecttliar cop psychology. 92i92'hen a
cop an"t-sts a suspect, he feels he's solved
the case: To be arrt-stetl is to be guilty.
It's a sincere feeling for the cop, an in-
evitable development of his way of life.All of us would suffer from the same prej-
udice if we were doing his difficult job.
He's carried away by his theory of how
the crime was committed, by his own
brilliance in solving it, antl he's certain
the o_nly__~t_;en_t_aitti||g |!tjo_bl_e_t_tt___js tosqueeze the iruth out of the guy he's
already chosen as the guilty man.
LEIGHTON: I think you may be a bit guilty
yourselfof oversimplifit'ation. You're
quite right, though, when you say that the
tougli-guy-nit-e-guy system has become a
stautlartl police interrogation |notttlt|t'e
ahnost as counnon as the t|t'p|n|':tb|t'
practice of unremitting interrogation
over ittortlinzttely prolonged periods. Fif-
teen. even thirty hours of nonstop ques-
tioning is by no tneans unheard of.
tNBAu= Ile that as it may. I think that the
limits of interrogation should remain
elastic. Cases differ. Suppose a suspect
says he was with _]oe so-antl-so at the
time of the crime. The police should be
allowed to hold him till they can track
down antl question _]oe and checl-2 the
alibi. That may take an hour, four hours,
who knows? If ]oe. a responsible citizen,
says the suspect was indeed with him, the
police turn the suspect loose. If _]oe sayst
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Nine to choose fromand every one is Solid State. Not a tube in the lot.
And they all have the Space Age reliability of RCA Solid Copper Circuits that
won't come loose, won't short circuit, won't go haywire. '
Choose a snap-in cartridge model that loads in seconds. Or a reel-to-reel
model. The Tiros I at upper left is battery operated. Take it anywhere. Or,
with adapter optional!, plug it into any 120-volt AC outlet. The Score I,
above, is a deluxe 4-track reel-to-reel model with 6" oval speaker, tone92
e connuunity has cltanged. llp tn now.
the police have acted toward submerged
sections of tlte population 92vithout the
same restraint that they've shown toward
the more articulate and ad92'ant't"etl citi-i Plzens wlto have long Iteld powerand en-
joyed tltc benets of counsel as a matter
of course. But now the depressed popu-
lations have a 92'oice and leadership.
They believe in themselves and are act-
ing collectivclyantl eli'ectivelytln'0ugh
organizations representing them.
BEl.ll= 92Ve're just damned lucky that we
live in a country where the Supreme
Court protects the stutnblebum sleeping
under tlte railroad bridge as zealously as
it does the president of the railroad
sleeping in his private car. In the Gideon
case, for instance, the Court weighed the
appeal of an insignilicant unknown cott-
vict as carefully as they would a brief
from the president of U. S. Steel. As soon
as the Supreme lourt forgets the rights
of the least of us. the rest of ns are going-
to be taken over by the "righteous" who
can't wait to ride roughshod over the
Constitution. When he was Attorney
General, Bobby Kennedy was quoted as
saying. 9292'e can and must see to it that
America does not unjustly punish the
man who is already serving a lile sentence
of poverty.
RUSTIN: We cart and mustbnt we don't
and haven't. 9292e continue to maintain a
plethora of statutes meant only to harass
the poor and the weak. Vagrancy laws,
for instance, are the most oppressive
type of class legislation. They exact pun-
ishment for the so-called crime of being
poor and unemployed. Making a crime
out of the state of being jobless in a
society steadily wiping out jobs through
automation is simply not worthy of a
civilized people.
PEMBERl'ON= Vagrancy laws, essentially.
*'*.rre' a"'device used by local authorities to
keep what they call "undesirables" out
of the community by harassing them, ar-
resting them repeatedly till they leave
and haunt some other city. .»92 poor
drunk will be ridden mercilessly by po-
lice just for being drunk. but :t rich
drunk can sop it up by the gallon for
years anti never feel the law's weight.
RUSTIN: .-92ll too true. But that isn't the
worst oi it. l'erhaps the most notorious1
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so '92
PEMBERTON: 9292'e are rapidly nearing
time when old-fashioned bail will be
abolished. The Vera Foundation in New
York recently carried on a three-year
.92lanhattan Bail Project experiment dur-
ing which 3505 accused were released on
their_. own recognizance after recom-
mendation by the Foundation staff.
Only 1.6 percent willfully failed to ap-
pear in court; during the same period,
tllrmr percent of those out on financial
bail bond failed to appear. It's also note-
worthy, and a bit sobering, to reect
that 59 percent of those held in jail till
trial were convicted, bttt only lcn per-
cent of those who had been out on bail.
This. it seems to me, may indicate that
freedom of the accused before trial is an
important factor in preparing a defense
and escaping improper punishment.
BEll.I: Another excellent reason to do
away with the bail bondif one is
neededis the simple fact that it's a
dirty, vicious racket. Too often the bail-
bond broker gets his cut,of the criminal
lawyer's fee, acting as a-lawyer's agent
and steering business to the highest bid-
der. lt's a completely illegal racket, but
it exists in every major city in the
United States. -
PLAYBOY: That brings up another aspect
of legal injustice to the poor. 9292'hat hap-
pens to the accused who can't afford a
la9292yer's fee, either? The Gideon deci-
sion requires that each accused, no mat-
ter how poor, has the right to counsel.
How do you think it should be provided?
BEl.ll: I favor the paid public defender,
like those of Oakland and Los Angclcs
in California. The Los Angeles public
defender has a large staff with many in-
vestigators and, what's more important,all of them are sincerely dedicated to
defending the poor. 9292'hen I visited
Russia. the people there were shocked
to learn from ._m_e_,tlu't,_in,mqst parts ofthe United States the government pays
not only for the prosecution but also for
the defense. A
RUSTIN: But to have the state pay both
the prosecutor and the defender givesthe st_ate still more power than it already
wields in court. lnevitably, the defender
will become friendly with the prosecutor
because his salary comes from the same
treasury. It's only human nature for him
tn become. perhaps unconsciously. more
nu the side of the state than of his indi-
gent clients. No, the defense of the in-digent should be the function of prirtnlc
agencies such as the Legal Aid Society,the bar associations, civil rights groups
and volunteer panels of public-spirited
attorneys. ~
PENtB5RTON= Though ours is not a legal-aid°¢'°*Y- U16 ACLU is one of those -private=11-Kitties .92lr. Rustin just described.
9292e've studied this knotty problem with-
' " "'"dl"!1 any clear conclusion. butwe -' v "Ivar .-K. :.... .|... ' '. _ /"92v _ I H/-> I' t
societies like ours, paid public defenders
whatcver system or mixture of systems
each district feels is most effective in its
own area. But whatever system is used,
the government should foot the_' bill for
the truly indigent. Most of our expe-
rience with thc public-defender system
has been good, by the way, despite the
reasonable-sounding objections i92_lr. Rus-tin has raised.
PLAYBOY: For several years, Mr. Iember-
ton and the ACLU have been in the
forefront of a campaign by various civil
liberties groups to overturn local "stop-
and-frisk" statutes that permit the police
in some cities to accost any citizen on
reasonable suspicion," search hint pub-
licly and force him to explain his pres-
ence and his plans. The principal avowed
purpose of the searclt is to protect the
police from attack with concealed weap-
ons and to prevent thieves and dope
pushers from dumping" stolen goods or
narcotics before apprehension. Do you
think this law serves its purpose, gentle-menand that lll6Sl.'al.¢d end justies
the means?
PEMBERTON: The answer to both questions
is an emphatic no. The policeman's right
to force us to explain our presence on
his beat is a gross violation of our right
to remain silentantl to mind our own
business. And the stop-and-frisk law gives
the police the right to detain anyone
they feel intuitively is about to commit
a crime. How can you have probable
cause to believe a person guilty of a
crime that hasn't been committed yet?
INBAU: Hold on a minute. This stop-and-
frisk law doesn't permit a policeman to
stop just any citizen on a whim. He can
stop and frisk only when there has been
a crime committed in the neighborhood
and the person stopped ts the descrip-
tion of the criminal, or when he nds
"]Ers'ons loitering"|n a Hark alley where
they have no business at three in the
morning. This is what the law means by
"reasonable suspicion". that a person has
committed a crime or is about to com-
mit a crime. A policeman can't search for
papers or flip through personal effects:he can search only for weapons. Should
he search a wallet and nd a stolen bond.
for instance. that bond would not be ad-
missible as evi'dence. because he would
have exceeded the search authority given
him by this statute.
RUSYIN: 92Vhatever its provisions or its
purpose, this law is a nefarious example
of class legislation, for itseffect is to per-
mit harassment of the poor. No police
are going to stop and frisk well-dressed
bankers on 9292all Streetbut they don't
hesitate to stop well-dressed Negro busi-
nessmen in Harlem and go through their
attache cases. That kind of brusque
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wooly
Brittshers
shrink
tnthe
heat
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Did Wellington
shrink at,.
used tltis power to embarrass or harass
the innocentof whatever race-there
would be such an outcry that the law
would be repealed. Yet in the case of
Pro/111' vs. Rivera just last year. tlte New
York Court of Appeals upheld the va-
lidity of the stop-and-frisk statute with
only one dissent, and the U. S. Supreme
Court has refused to review that decision.
This combination of court rulings puts
the stop-and-frisk law on very solid
ground.
BEl.lI: I wouldtt't say that. The stop-and-
frisk law is clearly unconstitutional, in
my opinion, and I predict that it will be
struck down when next it's tested by the
Supreme Court. _
PLAYBOY: Another police-backed local
statute that's come under re from theACLU and other civil liberties groups
is the so-called "no-knock-and-enter" law,
which empowers law-enforcement ofcers
-again, on "reasonable suspicion"to
burst into and search a suspect's home or
place of business without either knocking
or announcing themselves as policemen.
Do you feel that this law is unconstitu-
tional, too, Mr. Belli?
BELU: Absolutely. And I predict exactly
the same fate for it.
PEMBERl'ON= Both of these laws danger-
ously weaken the barrier between us and
unlimited. arbitrary authority. They
practically beg for unscrttpulotts police-
men to abuse their power andProfes-
sor Inbau's reassurances notwithstantling
to harass citizens they don't happen
to like. 92Ve abandoned a historic safe-
guard of our liberties when we accepted
those laws.
INBAU: Remember that the police are em-
powered to stop and frisk or to break in
only after going through the full pro-
cedure of establishing probable cat_t?s_e,
and in the case of the no-knock-and
enter law, of obtaining a searclt warrant
as well. Thus the innocent public is
protectetl frotn brttsqtte; uttwarrattted
intrusion by the police. .-92s for the stop-
atul-frisk law, dott't yott think. itt all
fairness, that a policeman .t/mtllcl have
the right to search for dangerous weapons
before exposing himself to possible crim-
inal attack?.
PEMBERTON: That argument is just as
specious as the one given for the passage
of the no-knock law: to permit a forcible
unatntounced entrance "where danger to
the life or limb of the officer or another
may result" from it properly announced
search. Btit violence is far more likely to
occur when police kick down a door with-
out announcing themselves. In fact, kick-
ing a door down is pretty violent to begin92
criminals and might open re on them-
with every justification. ,
TURNER: Especially in New York, where
the newspapers specialize in lttrid ac-
counts of "crime waves," there is a
hystt-ria that could easily prompt an in-
nocent householder to shoot first and
investigate later. And the police are by
no means always innocent of this kind of
freewheeling violence at a house arrest-
even if they don't actually kick down adoor. 92Vhen I was still a special agent. the
FBI got a tip from a motel owner that
one of his guests looked like one of the
Ten .92fost 9292anted" criminals. They
surrouttdcd the place and banged on thedoor. 9292'hen the guest cracked it open
slightly, one of the agents shoved his cre-dentials forward, but it was pitch dark.
"FBI, open upl" he barked. When the
poor, frightened guest didn't instantly
ing the door open to invite this armed
mob inside, they shot him in the face. lt
turned out later, of course, that he was
perfectly innocent. The agents"respon-sible were severely disciplined. but they
didn't go to jail. This incident shows
wltat kind of tragic injustice can resultfrom the use of excessive force in serving
an arrest warrant.
COOK: This resort to violence by the
police is a bad sign of declining profes-
sionalism. One of the best cops I ever
knew was a New York detective named
johnny Cordes. He piled up a fantasticrecord of arrests. but he tlevcloped the
theory that he was a better cop if he
never carried a gun, and for years he prac-
ticed his profession completely unarmed.
He's still alive, retired with many hon-
ors. Contrast him with the FBI agents
who were trailing a pair of kitlnapcrs
in the Thirties. The local police were
cooperating and knew where one of the
principal suspects 1.-.'e:s.-l-ti<l_-i-:tg out, lmc
they wanted to catch the otlter one. too.
when he visited his- pal. The FBI had
been advised that the police were staked
out watching the hide-out, but they got
impatient and at midnight Hoover him-
self led :t fire light. They got their tnan,
all right. bttt ttot the second kitlttaper:
the local police futttttl out later that he
had indeed cottte to pay a visit that night
and had watclted the whole .battle as
part of the crowd. The cop who tlepentls
on muscle and gunplay is always ittferior
to the one who relies on brains.
BEl.l|: Too tttatty policemen are nothing
more than overgrown kids still playing
cops and robbers-only for In-rps. Butthere's too damned ntncit gttnplav
arottnd on boll: sides of the lmtlgt-.
Em-tybody'.t playing with guns as though
they were toys. We don't have bears.3
t .~92:-..~-. -
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_ >_- 92/ ~. ~ ' ' s . , 92I 1 t._ -. l
that cities with strong laws controllit
rearms have much lower ltonticide rates
tltatt cities witlt unrestricted sale of guns.
Itt .92'ew York City, where owttership of
rearms has long becn_ supervised, tlte
tttttrder rate is 3.3 per |t,l!l of poptt-
lation. substantially lower tltatt the
national average of 4.5 and about one
third, of Alabama's 10.2. New 92'ork City
also has the lowest robbery rate oi the
nation's nine largest cities. These gures
offer a pretty souttd argument for the
control of rearms. And just by tlte way,
these figures also argue tltat there is a
bit of hysteria behind the current tettd-
encv to call New 92'ork City's streets a
jungle. of _92"iolent crime.
IEIGHTON: I agree that contemporary
crime statistics produce hysteria rather
tltan thouglttful consideration of the
factors that cotttribute to the incidence
of crime. For example, we are told that
crime ltas increased "re times faster
thatt the population." From a denitive
poittt of view, is tltis .1 statement that
enlightens us? I sometimes suspect that
such crime statistics are issued to terrorize
people rather than to inform and edu-
rate the public.
TURNER: You're absolutely right, I'tn sor-
ry to "say. .-92s an I"lII agent, I made ar-
rests I was ashamed of just to play the
numbers game. lonscietttiotts cops hate
it. but this business of atttassing statistics
is forced down their throats. Obviously,
justice suffers as a resttlt. It's an ahttse
that should be ended. I suppose the only
way to stop it is for those who appropri-
ate lunds for police agencies to yawn
when a police chiefor a _]. Edgar Hoov-
er, for that matte-rtries to impress them
witlt ttttmbers.
COOK: The I-BI crime compilations are
peculiar products of a new system of
tabulating crimes. Itt- I930. when the
'-"I- Bl bcgaIi Collecti'ng 'crime statistics,
only 400 police departments reported tothe I-'llI: now about 8500 departments
report. Obviottsly, the sheer volume of
crimes reported will grow explosivelywlten the number of reporting.agencies
ittcre:T.ses twetttyfold. Added to this istlte fact that cztlls-for-service to every po-lice departntettt itt the country ha92'e
ntttltiplied by factors as high as tett ortwelt e just itt the last ve to tett years. I
wottltltt't be at all surprised if this so-
called rtutaway increase in crittte is ttoth-
ntg more than a runaway ittcrease itt
calls to_the policefront :t public pattie-stricken_by a crime-wave scare instigated
bi the police themselves.
TURNER: Let tne tell yott about a crimewave" that hit S:m Francisco last year
almost o92'ernightwithout the slightest
increase in the crime rate. In the NorthBeach district of the city, sonte self-right-
¢0l1$ morality groups got together attd
presstttetl the |!tt]i 'P into taitlitw severalproceeded to routttl up all the girls; and
for good measure. the} lled up the re-
maining seats itt the paddy wagons with
all the drttnks and roisterers in North
Beachwholesale lots of thettt. Not sur-
prisittgly, the arrest rate itt San l~'t'an-
cisco leaped ztstronomically; to judge by
the arrest gures, the city was running
amuck. But there ltad been no upsurge of
crintemerely av stnall but well-directed
ground swell of blnenoses who forced
chicken-livered police officers ittto mak-
ing arrests for so-called crimes that had
never bothered them before.
LOHMAN: There's still attotlter factor
that misleadingly inates crime statistics.
It just so happens that the number
of people in that_age group which has
always committed a disproportionate
number of crimesfrom I5 to 24-is in-
creasing far faster than the general popu-
lation. So. naturally, there is an increase
in crime rates: httt this certaittly doesn't
imply increasing lawlessness in society as
a whole.
INBAU: Be all that as it may, the FBI sta-
tistics show irrefutably that crime is
increasing re times faster than the
population. The .-92ttorney General says
the crime rate went up I-I percent just
last year, attd ottr general popttlation
certainly didn't jump that tnttclt. Even
if the adjustment of statistical methods
were to show a less alarnting proportion-
ate increase, the police would still have
an enormously increasing absolute num-
ber of crimes to contend with, and they
need all the tools we catt give them. A
murder is a mttrder and calls for police
action whether it represents only one
homicide per I000 or per l00, 0 popu-
lation.
PLAYBOY: Let's discuss some of those tools.
l92fr. Tttrner. as an ex-FBI specialist in
electronics det-ices,_for clandestine su_r_-_
veillance, ltow <t<>";¥m feel about legal-
ized wire tapping'by law-enforcement
agencies?
TURNER: Itt the rst place, by its very
nature, the tap is illegal, no matter who
does it. Tecltuicztlly. it fall.s under the
heading of search and seizure": it's ille-
gal lwcztttstr it's itnpossihle itt :ttl92'a|tce to
name the specic cottversatiott to be
seat't'lted" or the specific inforntation to
be "sei'/ed." as 'the Constitution requires
itt all other searches attd sei"/.ttres. In or-
der to legalize it, you'd have to pass a
constitutional amendmt-ntand tltat's
something I'd ltate to see happen. I say
this as one who has monitored many
FBI wire taps during which I necessarily
ea92'esdropped' on the cont-ersations of in-
nocent persons discussing matters not
pertinent to the investigation, therefore
none of my business. It's not a nice job.
PEMBERTON: A study of wire tapping in
New York City showed that of S588
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antlers!
He can expect a moonlit night. An
ocean cruise. A hole in one. A rst at
Sebring. A Broadway hit. Everything
seems commonplace next to Colt 45
Malt Liquor.1"
law enforcement: the rest will be be-
tween innocent persons. But that won't
prevent the invasion of tlteir privacy by
C:|92'estl|'oppi|tg policetnen. :92lr. Turner'stlisclosure that he practiced wire tapping
as an FBI agent is a fascinating bit of
intelligence ' when you consider that
_]. Edgar Hoover has called the practice
ttnethical and detrimental to sound po-
lice practice. jf I remember correctly. he
said. The tliscretlit and suspicion of the
law-enforcing branch which arises fromtlte occasional use of wire tapping more
than offsets the good whidt is likely to
come of it."
TURNER: He's quite right-though it
doesn't alter the fact that the littreatt
uses it as a matter of course. 92t'ry lilllv
positive information comes across a wire
tap, however, unless it's from an inno-
cent and naive person, and those aren't
the people police are after. 9292'heu I was
with the Bureau, we used the tap almost
entirely on cases of subversive activity,
but we rarely picked up anything useful.
The same time and energy could have
been better spent on some other tech-
nique. The FBI doesn't really depend
on the tap very much; the agency rarely
has more than I00 taps going at any one
time.
PLAYBOY: That sounds like a lot of wire
tapping.
TURNER: I92'ot when yott consider that the
New York City police have at least that
many going at one time just within the
city limits. But I think the argument
over wire taps sometimes distracts from a
more iuvidious practice: the planting of
hidden microphones. A bug picks up not
only phone conversations but every-
thing, including pillow talk. And invari-
ably a trespass is comtuitted to install it,
which is not the case with wire taps. As
you may know, the FBI publicly ac-
knowledges '?Ifé'ntiift'ber of _tap§ it"Is
across the country at any one time. Once
I was ordered to pull out a tap because
one was being installed in another city:
this would keep the books in balance.
But I was at the saute time ortleretl to
install a bug to replace the tap. The
FBI does not announce the number of
bugs it has going.
PEMBERTON: .-92nd ottr technological revo-
lution is spawning dozens of new eaves-
dropping devices every year. Sooner or
later, inevitably, miniature television
transtnittt-rs like the ones in Dirlt 'l'rnr_v
will be developed antl we will have en-
tered the era of 198-I with Big Brother's
eye on tts day and-"night. And don't
think cert'ain police officials will hesitate
to use it. In California they even bugged
a bedroom shared by the speaker of the
California Assembly and his wife. Any¢
.92
ttle fascist at the other end a juicy
earful!
COOK: Iiverybody I know who is at all
vulnerable u.92*.92"tu/tcs his phone is tapped.
If !ou'92e ever opened yottr mouth in pro-
test. raised yottr voice on a controversial
issue. you take it for g|'antt:d that your
phone is tapped. Ilut I don't know what
can be tlone about it. It's alarmingly
widespreadand becoming more so
every day.
PEMBERTON: I know an enterprising re-
porter for the Clrimgn Sun-Timrcr who
called on II private detectives picked at
tatttlottt frotn the phone tlirectory. lle
asked each to st-t up a wire t:|p antl made
his reasons pt'ogt't-ssi92'ely more despica-
ble. Finally he asked a detective to bug a
priest's confessional, rather hoping be
would get a punch in the nose for even
suggesting it. But the detective blantlly
agreed. Only one tnan turttetl him down,
and even he offered to help arrange :1 tap.
The reporter ended his investigation cott-
vinced that almost etery one of the city's
200-odd agencies not only could have but
would have set up a tap on absolutely
anyone. It's a ghastly commentary. But
how can the government prosecttle when
it's ltypocritically breaking the same law?
PLAYBOY: How do you feel about the le-
gality and tnorality of other invasions of
privacy in the namc- of law enforcement
such as the tnail cover. lor example. by
means of which policemen keep a log of
all incoming antl outgoing mail with the
tollaboratiou of postal ollieials?
TURNER: The Postmaster General recently
put a stop to that practice, I'm happy to
say. At least he's .92 If l he has; I'm always
a bit skeptical. I have every reason to be-
lievc that :t Federal agency pttt a mail
cover on me not long ago. I sent two
manuscripts to tnaga'/.itu-s in New York.
antl shortly ialterwartl. two Federal
agents>calTe'd on ttfé editors and asked to
see the manuscripts. They had no legal
way of knowing such manuscripts even
existed, muclt less that they had arrived
at those specic editorial offices. Un-
doubtedly they had gotten wind of thcfact that I was working on a couple of
pieces about the Fill. antl had correctly
surmised the obvious: that they were
not etuirely sympathetic. Knowing that
many t lllUl'.92 could be intitnitlau-d by a
call from Federal agents. they tletitletl to
try it. but one of the editors halkt-d and
that piece was published. I don't know
why the agents were 920 conct-tntrtlz it was
only a critique of the FBI for its incom-
petence iu failing to prevent the Kennedy
assassination.
PLAYBOY: In addition to mail covers,
postal inspectors have also resorted to
spying on their own employees through-bl
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liott division. Ifrsqtnt-body is ,beat r
brutalizetl by .t pojicerttattz, these L'_,4aCS
are investigated by tlte police them-
selves. If he nds cause, Superintendent
9292'ilson takes the tnatter to the state's at-
torney's office for pr_ost-tution. 9292'e are
proving itt Chicago that the police can
sttper92'isc tltetnselves when the public de-
mands it.
BEl.I.l: 9292'elI. I'm not so sure about that;
but my fear for our civil liberties is not a
fear of police brtttality or corruption. I
think tlte average cop on the beat is
doing a hard job well. 92Vhat scares me is
the greed for power of people like ]. Ed-
gar Hoover and the far-right extremists
who yearn for a police state. Tllt'sC Su-
preme Iourt decisions which they so
abotninate arett't making the policemans
job tougher: they're ptttting the bridle on
I-Iitlerian bastards who have no place in
our democracy. If we want to preserve it.
we need only two inviolate rules, in ad-
dition to the writ of habeas corpus and a
judge-and-jury system: I! You don't have
to .-ay anything that may be used against
you. and ! you're entitled to a lawyer.
If we can preserve just those two rules,
we will be able to preserve our de-
mocracy. If vou could get just those two
guarantees in Russia or China. those
countries would be so changed that you
couldn't tell them from the United
States. So let tts not. in God's name, lose
those guarantees here.
INBAU: We're not abottt to lose them,
Mr Belli. But we cannot preserve law
attd order when all our concern is on
civil liberties. for civil liberties cannot
exist except in a stable. safe society. To
have civil liberties without safety of life
and property is a meaningless thing. 92-92'e
cannot abolish the police and still main-
tain an orderly society. nor can we im-
pose so many_resu;ictions on them that
lflfiy-QQI-i§l!O9292'¬X'lCSS to prevent~G=ime and
apprehend criminals. Court decisions
seeking to force the police to behave
properly by releasing obviously guilty
persons will not protect our liberties in
the long rtttt. The prime power police
slfould have to combat crime effectively
is the right to interrogate suspects pri-
vately for a reasonable length of time
before arraignment. .~92gain. I emphasize
that the suspect must not be mistreated
and he tnttst be informed of his right to
remain silent. But the police must be
allowed to question a suspect in private,
or law enforcetncnt as we have known it
will-become a shambles. If police are de-
prived of this basic right, we tnust brace
ourselves for an avalanche of crime even
greater than we suffer from today.
COOK: I disagree completely. Regardless
of the needs of law enforcement, we
must preserve ottr liberties at all costs.
The survival of each of us as an in-.l2.:.I....| I.. v - .. - -_ l -
our liberties. we are tltat tnuch Clt!.9292'l tc.
disappearing into a vast. faceless police
state, just as t92Ir. Belli fears, antl human
society will become indistinguishable
from a termite colony. I concede that we
mayyhave more lawlessness today thatt in
the past. but I don't feel that there is a
cause-andelliect relationship between in-
creasing crimes and court decisions that
protect civil liberties. No. our whole mor-
al tone is lowc'r. thanks chiefly to our free-
enterprise-racket society, our scramble
for personal gain. You see evidence of
this lax moral tone. to name just one
example, in the widespread practice of
robbing insurance companies by making
excessive and fraudulent claims. When
the little guy at the lmttom of the heap
sees those at the top takittg moral short
cuts. rigging prices contrary to the law,
cheating on taxes, he gures it's only
smart for him to grab his own piece of
the action. In this kind of society. you're
going to have more crime regardless of
expanded or curtailed police power. The
protection of individual civil liberties
has nothing to do one way or the other
with the crime rate: but in any case, they
mttst be preserved.
RU$TlN= I agree with .92Ir. Cook that the
society we live in does not really want
true law and order, or at least is not
willing to make those reforms that will
lead to true law and order. In terms of
human rights. the policeman is the patsy
for ottr society: he is the instrumcttt for
enforcing :t basically unjust system. Po-
lice just cannot accept poor people as
being of the same value as those who
have made it. Atty effort to improve law
and order by increasing the number of
police or their powers is doomed to fail.
All you achieve is to create a larger num-
ber of corrupt policemen. As long as so-
ciety tolerates bad housing. antiquated
school systems and massi'»e-~tme1-.'.ploy-
ment, it will be impossible to maintain
law and order. Reliance on police power
has not prevented attd will ttot prevent
outbreaks of lawlessness like the riots in
Watts and Harlem. These controversial
court decisions. far from encouraging
crime, are merely a small first step toward
a larger justice. 9292'itliout this minimal
protection of civil liberties. law and order
would be inipossible. For a more orderly
antl just society, we must tear down
slttms and build decent housing, throw
ottt our 19th Century school system and
set up schools to prepare people for the
tedmological society of this century, to
provide full and fair iempldyment for all
people. 9292ithout reforms, we will be
faced with increasing disorders regardless
of the powers given to police. In the cor-
rupt society of today, the policeman is
just part of the widespread decay of
morals. The police are themselves pris-92 .
-olice problem sintpler. it would call
not for more policemen with tnore po-
lice powers, but for more justice. 9292'ho
knows? Perhaps someday it will.
PEMBERTON: Big go92'ertnnent--antl that in-
eludes its law-enforcement armthreatens
to becotne so powerful that to preserve
the kind of democracy we've enjoyed in
the past, we are going to have to irtltibit
rather than increase its power. Law in a
democracy is always enforced more effec-
tively by moral sanction than by police
force. Respect for the law is the most
important factor in maintaining law and
order. .-92nd to preserve respect for the law.
a society must ltave law-abiding police-
men. If we maintain :t police force re
cruited front superior types of citivens and
trained in the best modern techniques
of police work, it will not be necessary
to abridge personal freedoms in order to
preserve the peace. The public will re-
spect the law because the police them-
selves respect the law.
l.ElGl-ITON: I agree. 9292e _are.demonstratin_-_{
in Chicago that improvement of polite
communications, equipment, training
and interttal discipline does more for
law enforcement than a dubious curtail-
ment of civil liberties.
LOHMAN; Giving the police greater au-
thority to abridge the rights of individu-
als is certainly not the answer. 9292-'hat
ntust be done nationally. as is being
done in Chicago, is to rec-uit a higher
type of rookie and traitt him in the lat-
est investigative tecltttiques. But he must
also be tnade to understand what civil
liberties are, and what restrictions he
must accept. If he learns his police work
well, he will find that those restrictions
do not hamper him.
TURNER: The tnodern recruit is already
far superior to the old-time cop. In San
Jose. California. for instance. 80 to UH
percent of the police are colleg§"gradtt-
ates. Gradually a superior brand of po-
licetnan is crowding up from the bottom
to replace ~the old_-jfasltionetl _martinct
who catne up the hard way and hasn't
even heard of such a thing as civil liber-
ties. 9292'e still have a long way to go be-
fore we reach Utopia. aml we'll probably
never quite reach it, bttt the quality of
policemen is improving every day.
Meanwltile, the courts are performing
an absolutely vital function in protect-
ing the individual against the crushing
power of the state. Professor lnbatt ap-
parently feels that a clearly guilty person
should be convicted regardless of police
intrusion on his liberties: btn once the
police have a foot in the door. once
they are permitted to violate anybody's
civil liberties whether that person is
clearly guilty or not, it will be no time
< at all before we lose the civil liberties of
everybody, guilty and innocent alike.I
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BEll.I= I catt tttttlers't:tttd how the use.
wire tappittg. ltowever distasteful, might
occasionally be unavoidable in order to
bring a guilty tnatt to justice0r to save
an innocent one. But lhis sort of thing is
tttterly attd cotnpletely abhorrent. totally
impermissible whatever the justification.
It's far tnure immoral tltan the immorali-
ties it seeks to eliminate. How would
yott like to tnake your living by gluing
your eyes to a hole in a joint to see
what's happening on tlte other side?
TURNER: I've dotte it:ntd I ltated it.
There is no more miserable, degrading
work than that kind of surveillance. But
quite ap:trt from tlte basic indecency of
it, this kind of Peeping Tom work is
grossly unconstitutional: it's an invasion
of privacywithout even the pretext of
looking for specic evidence of a specic
crime. It's just a dragnet operation in-
vatltng the privacy of perhaps a thou-
sand innocents in the vague hope of
catching maybe one guilty man. Bttt the
police don't ltesitate to employ these
methods witlt just that hope. And. utt-
believably enough, many courts actttally
utlmil that itnproperly obtained kind of
evidence; it's lone all the time.
PLAYBOY: The reliance of police on the
polygraph. or lie detector. as an interro-
gational technique is even tnore wide-
spre.-d than their use of wire tapping,
bugs. mail covers and pt-ephole spying
itt surveillance work. Distrust of the poly-
eraplfs ndings, however. has spttrred
ttt.ttt92 cities and six states to outlaw its
ttse. attd it has recently been uttder attack
or investigation by labor ttnions, the De-
fense Department and a Congressional
subcommittee. ls their disapproval jus-
tilied, itt your opinion?
BEl.ll= Not in my experience. I've used it
tnany times attd fottnd it a most usefttl
and often an invaluable instrttment.
Once. I remember, the prosecution
wottltlti°t let tts give polygraph tests to
three of tny clients on condemned rowitt San Quentin. so we took the cotnpl:tin-
ing tvitness to Reno and tested him there.
His story proved to be cotnpletely un-
true: so we saved three men's lives with
tltat"tn:tt'ltine.
PEMBERTON: 9292'lt;ttcver its cllectivettess in
tletecting lies. the fact rt-mains that the
|lUl};;t.t|ilt violates :t person's right not
to testily agaittst hintsell. The individual
is utcrcetl by the threat that he will be
presutned guilty if he reftts'es to submit.Nu less ittvidiotts is the fact tltat during
the lest he answers dozens of questionsn'rele92a_nt to the crime. thus giving thepolice ittfortnatiott that neither tltey ttor
anybody else ltas :t right to kttow. .92nd
some polygraph operators have reportedthat certain subjects who haven't been
caught in a lie nevertheless show dishon-
est tendencies." It doesn't take much
intuitive ability to conclude that a ma-clttlw :ttul mu-t~-.t..-~ .-.....t.t t~ t . .r..._........_. _..._ .__..__...>-a- -i--'--- - _ __ _ ,__ .__.._ .__..._._.-. ..-_._._. ,_. -----
PlAYBOY= The Iottgn-.~=ott;tl t'nttttttillt't'
tltat recently ilttcsligzttrtl the polygraplt
which was being ct.92n:.itlet'ed for Gov-
ernment uscconcluded that tlterc is no
such thing as a "lie detector" attd that
the tnacltittt-s purported infallibility is a
hoax. 9292'onld you agree with that?
TURNER; _|. Edgar himself told the 9292'ar-
rett Commission, "The FBI feels. that the
polygraph technitjue is not suiftciently
precise to permit absolute judgments of
deception or truth." But I happen to
know for a fact that the FBI uses the
polygraph on its own personnel.
PLAYBOY: For several years, critics of the
police. especially itt cities with large ;92'e-
gro attd Puerto Rican populations, have
been clamoring for civilian review
boartls with power to re or discipline
law-enforcentettt ofcers for improper
conduct or procedures, including the
use of the investigational and interroga-
tional devices we've been discussing.
Police respond that they should be al-
lowed to police themselves. I-low do you
gentlemen feel about it?
RUSTIN: I cannot understand police ob-
jection to the idea. 9292hile one fttttction
of the board would certainly be to pro-
tect the public agaittst polite malfea-
sance, another equally important function
would be to clear innocent policemen of
baseless charges brought by mischief-makers. How could an innocent police-
man object to that? .
PEMBERTON= 9292'ltat the police object to
about civilian review boards is the possi-
bility that all kinds of wild accusations
against them will get into their records
and haunt them for the rest of their ca-
reers. even if they're exonerated. lt
doesn't seem to bother them tltat this is
precisely what happens to innocent pri-
vate citizens who get picked up in drag-
ttet roundups for police interrogation.
That arrest is on their records whether
or ttot they're ultimately convicted. So it
turns ottt that policemen :tre just as sett-
sitive as ordinary citizens about having
their records needlessly besmirched.
INBAU: It's for that very reason that I
feel civilian review boards would serve
merely to frustrate and demoralize the
police. The right tltittg to do is what we
did in Chicagoiafter the scantlalous dis-
covery :t few years ago that tnany police
were involved itt a burglary ring. The
public was .92O outraged that they de-
ntanded :t new sttperitttcudent oi police.
The city brought itt !rlantlo 9292ilson.
who used to hold the san_t_e chair itt crim-
inology at the University of" Zalifornia
now occupied by Dean Lohman, by the
way. Under his leadership, Chicago is
now protected by what is fast becoming
the best police force itt the world. It's a
force mttch tnore mindful of the rights
of the pttblic than the old force, and, . . . < .
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.,nlinm-rl from fmge 98!600 active memberson several campuses
-is the .92lay 2nd .92Iovement, an out-
growth of the May 2nd Committee
lornted at a socialist conference at Yale in
.92larch I96-1. Its name comes from the fact
that"on t92lay 2nd of that year, the .92love-
ment organized a march on the United
Nations, protesting the war in Vietttam.Like tlte l!uBois Zlubs, tlte .92lay 2nd
attivists consider wltat they term "Amer-
ican imperialism" their primary target.
.-92dtnitting frequent. informal ties withtlte l'|ttg'res$i92'e Labor Party, .92lay 2nd
leadc-rs deity tltey have been taken over
by the PLP. They call their nascent or-
;_;ani'/atiott "a radical student peace or-gan}/ation." but they are not pacists."9292='e catntot," says one of their leaders,"ask the 92'i::tcong or the black people
itt .92'orthern ghettos to be nonviolent.
!lt. I used to be a pacist, bttt I never
hatl to try it out. However, a Vietnamese
peasant confronted by a .92larine or ablack man being hit by a cop cannot beaskcd to be nonviolent. Pacism is irrel-
e92aut lot them."
!ld-line, anti-Cotnnutnist leftists sttclt.ts St.--riztlist Norntan Tltotnas and llayztrd
Rust.n. chief strategist for .92lartitt Ltt-
ther King, cottdemn the overt commu-
EAT SLOWLY
FOOD WELL
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, .;92x- -_:,-3-_§t-:->,,_.?;_;,~,v; ,_-_,¢;,;._a-__ t,-._ , .AND CHEW YOUR
. ._s .. '.-. ..:¢:g -,. ~ -*3 1* -, - »s;§?t.'<¢»1?f:;>;*§*-'*?=.§%'~'~'>l »¥"t ~_ , ;_F- - $3 y 11.!; .;§*!92,_ .¢QI~_*§,".:>§'-L-?"_-',:;,-.!i'~?'-:~r::i'f~< J .= 1. ' .~+ = - _~ " ,.-.;'~*r-. ---2 - ' - ?.L-'Y.':.=.'2>- " 53 * i=92.5'{?92=f5;-.f»'>- ~'TI'-it-'.1~-,'_<.~§? _--0 1':-:2 5% -92-tauL"ii§*"1§P1§-ié5!"5-*5=£?$i -e 3 .--,:.:>-t_, ra ~ _91-,_ :§;'i__t,i~_.,1?-§;%§;..¢ . ,. _.r 1- ,-..>;.->+'-,_I..nistn of the lLl; attd they consider the
l!uBois Clubs and the .92lay _nd t92lo92'e-
ment as at best politically na't've attd at
worst easy prey to manipulation by
Communists. SDS,S.92' ZC attd the .92'orth-
ern Student Movement resent the im-plication that they can be successliullyinltrated. They will cooperate with theDuliois llubs and the .92lay 2nd Move-
ntentthough not with the rigid, raucous
lI_.l'on specic projects, maintainingtheir own stubborn independence. Since
they practice total inner democracy andhave no patience witlt pat ideologies,whether Soviet or Chinese, they are c0n~
tlent tltey c:ttt protect themselves.
On one occasion, a PLP metnber
inltrated a SI92' IC unit in the South, be-
coming editor of that group's local news-
paper. 9292hen the paper began to look asif it had been progranted by a computer
in Peking, the journalistic James Bond of
the lLl was dismissed.
"Look." says C. Clark Kissinger. a short.
wiry. ."l-year-old graduate of the Univer-sity ol Chicago where lte majored itt
mathematics! and now a lull-time strate-
gist for Sl!S. "we began by rejectittg theold sectarian Left and its ancient quar-
rels. 9292'e are interested in direct action
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At-
* .- I-.1-Jas} " »>.-W->.=.~:.-<&' ' '_ 5. < --~ ;_;.:§f- I; ,.~ .,' *.1»¬i.. .>'1 '> .1 '_§;-r¢"- _ .. ,- '-':t.;..-.= '1" "4-.@_2;. E-51 ~ . ~.. = 1 .- » » 1. » . - *--1-f--.1-'-L».-:1-Mfr . .. - . . . .1:1 f. f~ rig. 2 4 -;;._é;_-It; :.__-_-;._,-_g:_ .g_A./92 -.._ .5-:1-:§_-in 't- i92 :-;>?_:-"i."¬¬'x, 5- 4_ . .. ~t.,i 34,1-. .-.-<>. .§ 5 Q9"-'> . i _ A -' - ' :2 '-=. ' =2 .51.=!.i=.~*--":7=i:?' 5'3" ~ i . -" iiitt ii"__."92-92.;,-1; . _~ t__ cg. -~-f_-3 ;.-_?-1; _,-_. , » 3 ' . . k .
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'__,_-:g~:; " -_¢ ... ,. Q -r-Rivz "
l specic issues. 9292c do not spet..-t
endless hours debating the nature of
Soviet Rtt$_si;t."
In agreement with Kissinger is _
year-old Bill Strickland, a tall, slim, pet'-
vasively hip Negro who directs theNorthern Student .92loventettt from an
ofce itt Harlem. .-92 nmgtm rum Inmlc
graduate of Harvard who wrote his tn:-~-
ter's thesis on .92Ialcolm X, Strickland
speaks for the majority of today's radical
American young when he insists: "9292hat-
ever revolution does occur will be an
.-92tncric:tn revolution. coming ot1t of the
.-92merican experience. 9292'e'll have toevolve ottr own ideology. You can't im-
pose .ttt alien ideology itt the linitcd
States. 9292'e're not interested in a guy's
memorizing Trotsky's theory ol perma-
nent rcvoltttion or in sonic Stalinist witha line. We're interested in creating new
forms and new ittstitution.s."
".92l.tn." adds a mt-tuber of .92.92' I I. "the
Communists. they're empty. tn:nt. entpty.They've got the same stale ideas, the
same bureaucracy they've always had.9292'hen he gets ntixed up with us. a lotu-ntie dit-.s and a person develops."
The .92ort|tt.-rn .'-tttdettt .92lo92"etnt'nt-
the .*i.92' l Z ol the .921!ttlt9292:ts lortttctl in
llttil. .92lanned largely by college .sttt-dents. some of whom dropped ottt of
school for a time to work in the eld.
the .92'.92.92l at rst cout.entrated on ttttori-
al programs for children in Nt-_'_;ro shuns.In the last year, its locus ltas changetl to
helping the poorthe black |0t'~oIg:t|t-
ize themselves ittto power blocs.
9292"ith some 2000 .stttdent ln 'tttitL't'.s on
73 campuses. the l92'ort|tern Student
.92lovetnent has 32 eld .secretaries and
-J0 lull-time volunteer workers. .92'ownearly all in the eld are Negro. En-
gaged in connnnnity organizing itt Bos-ton. l-lartlord. Detroit. Philadt-lpltia antl
Harletn. they are actiing as catalysts for
rettt strikes. political action, pressure on
9292ar-on-Poverty oltials to enlist the
poor itt decision making. and otltcrwise
as stimuli for the pteviotlsly voiceless to
join forces. "9292'e go way beyond voter
registration," says Strickland. "9292'hat'sthe point of getting pt-ople rcgi.stt-retl so
that they're swallowt-d by the satnc old
tnt'cltatti.stic political tn:tt'hi|tc~? 9292'c't't~
ettgagctl itt creatittg new political struc-tures lor a really new society."
.-92 switch to politics is also a ntajor
part ol the ttt-9292' direct ion bcittg takt-n by
I !Rl-I. l-'ot'tnerly, IURE cottcetttratcdits energies on civil rights breaktltrottglts
l'rom public accotntnodations to jobs-bttt ttow. Z !l E's fortnt-rnationaldirector.
_]antes l-'armer, etnpltasines, "our goal isi
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