Document text
Forms to be Filled out for Eacn interview
FORM
Circumstances cf Irtervisv
KATE New York
NAME OF v,ORKER ELLIS WILLIAMS
ADDRESS
DATE
SUBJECT
852 St. Nicholas Ave. NYC
October 10, 1938
CRAWFORD'S STORY: OBEAH
1. Date and time of inter,!low
2. Place of intervicw
3. Name aad address of lJformaa..
October 9 and 18, 1938
447 W. 152nd St. NYC
Mr. Crawford
447 W. 152nd. St. NYC
4. NaTe and addrer-; of per so- if anv, yoa in
touch with info7.mralt,
3. Name and addres of pe7-son, iany, accompanying you
FOLKLORE
NEU YORK
6. Description of room, tvJrse, surrouIrdings, etc
One of the better houses on "Sugar Hillw for colored
occupants (Harlem). Five -story walk-up; clean, snd
apparently well -managed. Apartment was clean with evi-
dence of being freshly painted. Furniture in disarray
due to intended trip of informant to the West Indies.
Furnishings apparently new and modernistic.
(Use as many additional sheets as nocessary, for any of the forms, each
bearing the proper heading and the number to which the material refers.)
STATE
hew York
!OiT,T vr-mti•'
ELLIS WILLIAMS
352 St. Nicholas Ave. rYc
r. F
October 10, 1038
Fut,elaT
CRAWFORD'S STOra: OLEAE
I. Anc,-,!itri
2. Piave d dt;ti2 of Lir:.
4. PU..ce
;1.
!!Ctior.,
1. e',CUpat
d,,
Trinidad, West Indies
None
Public School and St. Mary's Collece, Trinidad;
City College, New York City.
Newspaper correspondent, business man, amateur
radio operator.
7. SpueirL1 and iilv.eri!sts
8. C rd r e ions it
9. Deeript ioi it' infowt
Active member African Methodist Ch.;
Police Athletic League and Boy's
Clubs
Tall, fairly well-built, weighs about 130.
10. otncr Poi nt;,, gar nk.-('-t in into v i
Informant is good source for other
material. Convinced interviewer of
his store of knowledge on "Obeth".
s:LnT
Avw York
FOPS, C
Text of Itterview (Unedited)
E ('F ''J.JE i111sii111111111111
ADW1ESt--;
DATE
SUe:JECT
852 .3t•b .anolns
otonr 10, L)38
Are*
New York City
FOLKLOPF
YORK
11*.Llo ole ohapi nello thave$ Cone on
That in basses brins you over. It has been a blasted
lo!v: ti e once last saw 7Al. Wbetos new ere., what hkve 7ou
!Jaen doln7A (The Interviewer looks around the room) Planes
(mouse the appecranoe of the apartment. I m sailln soon :ou
.4.110w*
'nn: to EUrope?
no/ 714tok to the "L
When do 7ou pull?
u ortnyht r)r so.
WhLt llne are you Itel :urneee or
Kl
of the !It
1,7,rne
and the Canadian MAional Jtowahp inos t.;.o the r-ular servloe
linos to the :er,t Indies0
70g (with en
why the iutoh Line?
reoause 1 rt blasted sick o: the ritiel;.• after lust
week's happoW.n 'a who wo-Ad9nt t thorouay 'iwupted, t this
loment T5ill" (intorvewerts nlekm,me) 1 do llot know how -jou feel
••1,1t 'I. no Or
imam
but I regret been born :rltish. Chamberlain's policy bombed=
one oontinuous bl-nder. It was a horr 1)10 shame for the Imialses"
(opprobrious term for the Nngllah) to, hay° fed Oho bravo Csecks to
the two holdup men or Trope. (1.forrn to nitler and Uussolin4
wasn't Ethiopia fed too? So whatil Are you not glad
that you are in America where *Peso*" prevails?
wall", there is no such thing as "Peso's. 'Tie
true re ax's not at wax like other nations in Europe and the Orient
but we too have our troubles at home. we have the war of the A.
or L. agaInst the C. I. 101 we have the war of the liberals against
the reactionariees we have the war of Whites against the black*
an us have the war or class against class. (He excuses himself
and returns with a tray and setup) What are you drinking?
014 not partioular. Sootoh and sodat libel but I
forgot my charger is already peaked. Bye or falernum. Ualornum
is a drink mad* only in the wect Lndlcolp It is u cord *1.)
Ailernum I'll have. Don't be so darn sentimontal. You
know you'd rather sooteh. run out and cot come coda. Ucks
yourself at homes Turn on the radio* labriel :lc:atter will be on
in a few minAtos. I'll dial the station. Thor() are oloarettcs in
the case and I will be baOk in a jiffy.
My host has left tmd I am recording what has transpired
so far. Aftor several mimtes the bell rine,. and I rush to open the
door. There is no one present. I continue towrite. It is pretty
difficult with the radio going. The bell rings again and I open the
door to find my host.
suppose you had a hard time findin the Walser? It
is in the kitohen. Some houses have theirs in the parlor or the
hills
7eso I hattrd the bell an went to the door1 but
there was no one present so I deoided it was an accidental ring
by someone.
Often tiLes I have been dlatuebed in the midst of work
by someone trying to got in to see someone else. It is oommon practice
around here. 114 mixes two drinks, offers me one and flop down in an
arm *hair and exolaims Awe were on the situation in *crops and at home".
(Interviewer is anxious to get down to business and get the reason for
his visit over.) Talking about vsr I will be et war with my supervisor
if don't get some oopy for him on folk lore on Monday.
ntd you say folklore? nell, it' Iam not folklore iteeelfw
.dopy.* Could give you oodles of it but there is a but. sail soon
for home and I am busy as s bee paokIng and straightening out my affairs.
rave another drink? Re proceeds to mix another talking at the same
time.) Anyway as one good AIeVianA to another /Ill give you some
stuff but whet are you going to do with it?
Turn it in to my supervisor who in turn will edit and
oomptle same in book form whiohwill serve generations yet unborn as
a dooument rioh in historioal value.
Are the identities of persons giving Information to be
made public?
To be truthful. I am not sure but even if it wero, there
is nothing for one to be ashamed err. Norsons giving information are
contributing in no small way to history making. 017 host loads his
pipe and again settles in his seat. fill have a cigarette?
*Wkippy 4Colloquial M ression.."I know all about it"
selerianomMeaning tz'Snidiidlan
Thanks. Bore is a light? are both auditing.)
Bill, what do you wish to writ, on? abaft I retorted*
Is obeeh folklore? Certainly it is. I Should 'ay it Is. Well, hell,
you ought to know as mudh about it I do. So true, but rether use
what you know about it. Hells bells' To anyone olso Xod be seared
a tiff to give them any information. no ahead pop your questions*
To your mind, what is °beget
°bosh is one of several cults that are merely religious
systems with elaborate and complioated rituals, surpassing I wotld
say in intrioaoy end symbolism most of the Oriental or Buropian
religious systems. It is strictly Afrioan. You might not know Pill
that the basis for African relkgion is the unity of the Oodhead or
Theism. (if you will pleas. speak a little slower, I will be able to
zet everything) Vihat did you sayabout the Angels? repeat, the
multiplicity of arkIels, forces, spirits, beini:si and so on does not
in anyway clash with the idea of unitarianism* In most of the went
Indian Islands today, there exist very vague eurvivals or obeah which
is due largely to the root of the adoption of Christianity by the
African. I want to mention also of the Wropeana superstition super
imposed on him and strawy as it micht seem oven though the European
superstition hss boon foroed on him It Is religous customs only
which definitely survive. Consequently the "gresinies" (meaning
unsophistioated peasantry) can now be hardly L -posed upon by the obeth
trickster unless he inooporetes in his bag of tricks a greet portion
of iuropean or Amerioan magic. This will of oourse inolude such things
as, candles, saints1 shrines, bells, books and so on.
toy, are you --Atting the stuff? It is rich stuff you know.
This is the kind of stuff that L get money for you knows You are the
only person ltd give this stuff to free, Come on, lot us have
another. I am just getting in the mood to spill (he is chuckling)
what you folk oall folklore, (He mixes another drink and while
so doing exclaims I muet ,set some more cubes.) fore in one for
you says he? But I would rather try the falornum now, No. It is
bad to nix drinks. One could readily see that you are no drinker,
Iatting back to °bash. There is a chap Herskovits
who claims that the source of inspiration for African obeah or voodoo
is unmistakably European. That many of the Negro traits as it pertains
to the practice and which many writers thInu are peculiar to him,
are unmistakably a retention or the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries
of Europe, which were imposed upon the African in the ':!net Indies.
You know I think he has got something there. Wee it Mirabeau when
asked whether he believed in magic retorted that it was very effective
when given with poisons. Whatever may be the effootiveness of the
Afrioans" knowledge of organ:o poisons, the fact remains that the
obeah man olai;41 a cure for every curse, To make it clear for every
harmful effect produced from any cause, there is in the cult or
wanga an antidote.
How many ranges do you know about? Six or seven.
Tell me something about the wangas,
Wangas in a great many instances are not unlike what
some people call "scarescrows". They are designed especially
as guards to protect fruit trees from aculnst the pilferers who
roam from orchard to orchard at night stealing. If you want a
technical answer.writs. I will give it to you in literary style.
The construction of a wunca is based on an African concept
identisal with one of the doctrines of Pythagoras, an early Greek
philosopllerb that ts# that the empirloal relation of similar forms
implies the oxistenee of other und distinot relations•
now is that Istnt that puttong on the bout?
Liston ole man I trust you will forive me but I am getting peeked,
furthar ij meter always hammered it in me to :Ives yes' too give
but in little doses. if you are interested as I an sure you must
be you will owe *gala. Do not think Iam exiediting your departure
but It to tI;As nor the ohlok to oome to help me pack 'oz' tho
storage warehouse.
-7-
(A second interview, on October 13th., 1938)
I see you are back, Bill, much like our friends across the
border who get their men. (Meaning Canadian counted Police.) Did
you bring me a copy of the last interview?
I did. Here it is.
He reads it aloud. It sounds durn good. Is this copy mine?
So it is.
Thanks.
I am going to keep it, but remember I am expecting
you to send me a copy of the completed story. I wish also to make
clear, bill, that in the event that it is published I must have a
copy free, gratis and for nothing.
If it is at all possible.
Getting back to my story of Obeeh, the idea is seen in many
forms of European magic, as apart from symbolism, and to my mind it
is a natural though unscientific inference. It is devilishly inter-
esting to see how the islander of the West Indies clings to his Iraw
in the hope of fri3htening off the kids --those mischievous brats who
in all boyish frivolity rob for the fun of it, mangoes, babanas, alli-
gator pears, eigmet and other fruits.
In a great measure, is he successful with his wanga?
Noi emphatically no. While there might be some slight emotion-
al reaction, the more sophisticated kids regard manga as a fraud and
chuckle no end when they observe them nailed to trees, displayed in a
prominent place, or suspended in the garden on a pole "shrieking be-
ware." I once asked a chap who had nothing floating from his garden
pole "where his vanga was." "All," be replied, "this is the best mange
--pointing to the naked pole. "Them little boys stone down every -body
wanga, but when they see my pole without any wanga--they frighten.
They don't know where my mange is." This bloke had developed a psycho-
logical technique to meet the incredulity of the urchins and their
contempt for wanga, for he adds mystery for whatever vestige of fear
tYat still lingers.
Tell me something of the Coffin, Coedbay„ Uncorked Bottle,
Cactus, and other images.
The Coffin -Board twinge is what you must mean. It is a terrify-
ing one, as you mmxt no doubt must know. It is made from a bit of
board from which a coffin has been made. It is draped in black and
hoisted on a high pole --a candle might be added to remind you or your
funeral service. All through these explanations you will note that
the Pythagoran implication is true.
The Cocobay wanga is made from a soft young calabash. If one
were to dare trespass, his akin would got all the abrasions of a leper
as the young calabash withers and decays. Feathers are stuck in it,
bit you must be careful that they are not from the body of a Sen Ben
fowl, for Gide, a human sub -deity, eats this bird. (Sen Ben fowl is a
bird that may be relied on to dig up and unearth any obea in one's yard.)
Wangas Which very strictly follow the Pythagoran principles are
the Prickly Cactus wanga, and the Human Figure. The cactus will grow
in an uncomfortable part of your anatomy, if you trespass, and any
castigation of the human figure will be felt by the thief in the cor-
responding places.
One must of necessity be filled with fear if they observe little
bundles of earth hanging on trees: they have come from a newly made
grave, and if you dare steal from the tree, surely there will be another
newly made one.
The Corked Bottle wanga is the most terrible of all the wangas,
for the bottle will be sealed and east into the sea. What avail it
then to take a cathartic? Epson salt, senna leaves, herb teas, castor,
or even croton oil, cannot help you. The corked bottle is prof against
all of these* and so will you be. You: belly will continue to en-
large until it pleases the msfiraguting offended party to retrieve and
uncork the bottle.
And to all who might read tYe story* and who might wish to
travel through the West Indies* I attest this solemn warning: be sure
to take a large supply of aperients* for every constipated person is
a suspect. Laugh it off if you may. You may argue all the scientific
findings you can, but vane will be the only verdict.
And now, since you have got me started* I am going to do oodles
of research when I get home --and if you wish me to, I will send you
the data if you will pay for the Air -,mail.
Fain
Ex t. CcriwcAlt
STATE New York
NAME OF nORKER Ellis Williams
ADDRESS' 852 St. Nicholas Ave. NYC
DATE October 10, 1938
SUBJECT CRAWFORD'S STORY* OMB
FOLKLORE
NEW YORK
Webster's mt. Dictionary reference to "Obeah"--
OBEAH--a religion probably of Ashanti origin;
practiced among Negroes in British West Indies;
characterized by the use of sorcery and magic
rituals, often attended by grave or fatal con-
sequences. Obeah doctors are adept in the
use of poisonous herbs, ground glass and the
like and in the production and fostering of
fear. To bewitch or influence by the prac-
tice of obeahm.