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opinion... _ . "_ . ,f _ __ -' ~92:-. i_,> >__. ; ._, 3 - J 43-~. _J:§» ?;-1,; ~,._:_-éf ~:;.>; J; ".Q1:..-J -T. Q. . ' " -' ="" -" ...~* 1~"-~ It was not thouht feasible to inoluno the ~nam.o!=..*§;s%.';0;.%;;1f.;;£;* £163in 5.av? -;»r ._ . "- _ 1- 1?. *::"- - ».. ; :--**.. - . -- W .. .;. -~-51 . -. Y ~"* *~"I*;"?% W. 5% 3
RA!$1QY¬DCO0PE.R, which was wported to be Subject: fax-ty ; ;;*=fa the title due to the: taut that mm information was iii?tnemkiwa Kerk Office by an anonymous aouroa and due to my f&b§.,f5§;§.*f¢-1-=;;}§j.'*
that t1aa____ub3eot positively denim mar using tmaguayme, 131;;-;>f.'.;,:¥* . $4 ~»- -%"'-"Q" ' » . ~ AZ ,§§-]92;§: I-4.~.:r§£1;,;r° ;J::. __ . 1; '~ ___ ,4 '1'" -'5 - }"1,.uw'~¢" . , 92 " vhf,3. M i .;. ' -'3 ~ P ' - K 3; < ¢=.~.-7. :;. H -- ,_.,..-,-s33 Q" ,;-5"".i " x Further, the name v=n.1.rrm in not being liate. in the-. -, {Y i;_-+1. 1,1»; ~,_.;.k""..';,_.",'92__¢_title as an alias, since bubjem. deplea aver having wadW-W ~ ~ . ~, 1.... ;._.¢...~ . _. ,_- _ T ~ gm;-1;. . .s';,:.2<;_ ._. »" ._;! '1~~-':~3 " N It will be notbd that 'i¢.f.P.£¥E'i P 'BAR;"3:~iSOY3. ax92nez@1nt1an¢§>é:xr,3¢"<*?%::E~i
M tha A3i§r%%§$§-%- fff*'i ?Z§1bcazed_ at 112 Eastth s:;:~ea:'.;
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Tn-us csss4ome|~A'rso A1 JY3 NEW YORK V if V rum no. i 65_1661!_ Va l V I
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ALBANY, new YORK 8/7/50 6/ 7-8/3/50 PETER F, MAX;-,ow '
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. _ = 7 ' ' . ~ - 92 5;; --5"./17 -.; ALFRED EPAMINONDAS SARANT, was. Alfred Savant ESPIONAGE ; .-/
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Subject resides with wife, LOUISE and infant sons at RD #1, Cayuga-_ '_*
Heights Rd. , Ithaca, N.Y. and is self-employed as painting contractor . He we.s,.-'3 "»;¢interviewed during period from 7/19/50 to 7/25/50 in connectionwith JULIUS '-"'..P/1./I_f._j Q<;,§_;
__':ROSENBERG'espionage, network. Denied ever engaging in espionage for the Russian ~
government or working as an agent for JULIUS ROSENBERG. Admits acquaintance-:;.;_ ;_. w
<,s..Lj,,,
We ship with ROSENBERG while he SARAIPP! was resident of New_ York City f:0_m"l97+2 *1
to l93+6. States ROSENBERG once "propositioned" him; adding "but I did not bite_;.A_:'; ._»;r=?';}._
. Denies he can recall any further details of this meeting and believes ROSENBERG ,; ¥=j -5;; :was sounding, him out politically. De ieslany contact" with ROSENBE/RG since-;T;§¥_ig;_; 1 -_"$.;-3
moving to Ithaca in September, 191+6 Address of JULIUS and Erma.-_-RosENBERe,;. ~13? *2O 10 Monroe St., mic, found in addre book in search of SubjecislresidenceAdmits close fri ndship with JO ,' from l9l+l to 19%, believing he met;-'-*;-'8;-2;.-{~£"1 it .- I!ROSENBERG throu h BARR. Deniesi knowing BARR as Russian espionage agent. and "i -~;;~,=
denies doing a y photographic work with BARR for the Russian government./Cv1a.ims". 3?:
he met WILLL through JOEL BARR. saaax-nr resided in.Apartment ,;61,.>._651."-: ~'
Morton Street, NY , from 10/l/1+3 to 9/1+6. States he lived alone at.this3'a.dd.ress"' "
until marriage of 7/6/1+5. Claims this apartment held in his name from 9/3+6_,_to};';fj§i
O l/50 while he r sided in Ithaca!, that he received rent payments from BARRQWI? Z3.
, PERL, and VIVI[aiP_'GLASSI~1AN, and that he made payments to 65 Morton Street7Re.alty-_; - ¬_
Corporation by check from Ithaca. States this arrangement made'by BARR with_f-,i*-j_f= ~...4.;funderstanding that BARR or PERL would use apartment, since apartments scarce-
at time Subject moved to Ithaca. Denies returning to apartment since l91r6 and . '1. 'denies any knowledge of use to which apartment was put during period froin' _-l9_1+6 . Q ,.
to 1950. Check of postal money orders, Ithaca, N.Y. reflects payments in amount ?l
. of $1+5.5O rental figure! received by SARANT from PERL, GLASSMAN, and }_{_§:1§I_I_3l§_¬ITA ./1: Y " 5"4
. >15-1';. -. .n SAVIDGE. Subject denies close association with SAVIDGE and claims he met her"~"§~'J" 4.;922n only one occasion. Admits being associated with BARR in hobby shop known as 3?;[ AR/{NT RATORIES, 227 E. llth St. , 192YO,§;¢ i'Q1i8-1?121.lr '{ximatedy Snionthsmin
-7 -. £ 'N""°VF-D F" Soscvu. Aasuf ' ' Q I ..f *"" |N c R°E DO NUT WRITE IN T >- ---- '~- ~' FORWARDE --~- it. ~ - . ~ -4 E . _ 1»i ' .92 , if; ; X . . ._____ _ _ . | . I v. g " """"_ . .. . . "~- ~--~----~~ e * ' E _,~& ._:;1r0sgTn§igT1zi>;';19 F l__,_:_V_ _ 5,? ' .. M 1Copies&designate¬. on next page ' - sghb H! I950 in-' ;. Tt7.@_~ *61 Q W ' ~ 92I- I Q. / "1- ~A*J { ~ _ op I _f 7 :71 4 H V J 7 V I . . .~-» _v .92° . p ' <, 92<~ 92 5 X! V c so '
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prior to leaving NYC. Denies use of this shop fo ' any purpo - other than
12 7 UUK
HELEI~J'E.",ITC EB, _,IKL or AIwI,';1:SIDOROVICII, LAP , 92 or R_U_I;I or Q ,
QLASS. Material obtained inlseerch of premises presently in process of beiR8 #Q4;§.
evaluated. Background information set forth.
',r _ ,, ,4-. ' _£..tf:"_4"/?,/;": C LII L 11-: 4' *~pursuit of joint hobbies. Denies ever residing t or know e of apartment§'
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itTABLE CF conTEmT§ 92 .
0.
INTRODUCTION QAQQllocololiliIO0IQOOIQQIIOOQOIDUOOQQOIOIOII
ALFRED SARANT QouilcnnqoovnullI0100I0ltlllQOOUOIOOOOOPOO{f
PHOTOGRAPHIC EXPERIENCE AND EQUIPMENT ............. ......
65 MORTON STREET, APT. 61, NEW YORK CITY .................
JOEL BARR ...........................,....................
WILLIAM PERL .............................................
JULIUS AND ETHEL ROSENBERG ...............................
VIVIAN GLASSMAN, wa. "yxvxm" .............................
IDS-ll?OVUOQQQOOIIIOIIIOIOOOO ocooootua
AN1! OCOOIOIQIQOOYIIOIIOIQIUQIOIIOOIIOQ
MORTON AND HELEN SOBELL O0O:$IlQIO0p0OIlllllltilwtivlon
MICHAEL MIKE! AND ANNE SIDOROVICH .......................
OQIIIIIOOIIOOIOIOI OOIDIQIQIIIJO
HARRY GOLD aonIIlQ92IlOQUOOOOIllcitibllaliluuilnouoootlttot
INTERVIEWS WITH mns. ALFRED SARANT_.......................
Ju1iUS ROS¬Ub¬rg IQO;IIOQlUIJIQjIjQOI.IQliOCOIIQUI
. Joel Barr .........................................
. Apartment, 65 Morton Street, New York City ........
- Perl ant!0ulIO00O92n¢|aAoo9200IlOlln000000000
. Sarant Laboratories ............-...-..............
.§ Photographic Experience .;.. .... .................
0 Max ElitChEr OlOOOIIIO1OQOOO col 00|0Qtc0Q0o 110100
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1-aVivian Glassman
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C0ntinued§ * _
9. Michael Sidorovich ............................-...
10. Davld and Ruth Greenglass .........................
1:-¢ G016. ¢0DOIOlIOI0IO92¢QOlOInigo-0loQiIOnnI00IO4I
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15. Description ..61...................................
XVI. MI§CELLANEOU5 INTERVIEWS [email protected]»¢¢»¢¢...
1- L8. 000000000:OIOQJUQQUIbqivtnillbiogcoo
-2- D9713-ld. Jo Bennett uvouuoaaoa-00001ooouo00¢oonac~a~-
3. Joseph Intermaggio .....
XVII. BACKGROUND AHD DESCRIPTION OF ALFRED SARAHT -......---....
Q0QOOQJQQOUIIIEIQOODOIOIIIQQQ
Relatives and Family ..............................
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Credit and Criminal Records .......................
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* .n'», r =At Ithaca. New York: A M 92 ' ;;~~/rve_-"-' ,_-a,.,",. u
* "-.:»~ ~-'ALFRED SLRANT, no #1, Cayuga Heights Bead, was interviewed in ¢9n;§*";;3;~ _,
nection with the investigation of the JULlUS_BOSENBERG.espionage netwerk.=* :i§§w?i
He was first interviewed on July 19, l9hO, by SA's JOHN D. MAHONEY and PETERj I 2
F. MLXSON. Subsequent interviews were conducted on July 20, 21, 22, 23 and r,,;7 My
25, I950, between SARANT and Agents NAHONEY and MAXSON. Early in the course[_;~v ' u
ofthe first interview, SARLNT was asked for permission to search his resi-'i§;;§@§_@;¢.
dence. He consented to this and executed e written permission dated July 19, -rq~ gj~v
1950, authorizing Special Agents MAHOHEY and MAXSON to perform such search.J _;,r -.
Tnis search was conducted during the night of July 19 and the early morning ' ,
of July 20; 1950. During the course of the search, when it was found that'**1,,f3_;,
it was going to take considerable time, SARLNT executed a second consent-to'§=i"9f?§C
search directed to SA's NICHOLAS L. DUNBAR and PAUL R. BIBLER. These Agents ~.}-5» » ~
' then assisted in the search. On Joly 21, 1950, snnnnr by written consent, ' »
further authorized Agents MAHONEY end MAXSON to conduct an additional search 1 ~'
of his premises on the same date. Various material was obtained during b0théAj f '
searches, and appropriate receipts dated July 20 and July 21 respectively, ,K ~ -
were furnished Subject. 1 . , ' ..»" ;f* ,4;_ . . 3 _ I 92 _ . 'I_. , I . . . , . { 1 ,__r
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Information received during the course of these interviews and 92 §§1~=§1]. ~
searches will be hereinafter set forth under various captions as the mnterial%" "
applies to points of pertinency relative to the JULIUS ROSENBERG network.'"*Y9"
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--.-SARANT was willing to iurnish background information concerning f
whimself, suchinformetion being set forth later in this report. He, Lowever,
though expressing a desire to cooperate, was vague and furnished contradic-L
tor; information in many of his answers to questions put to him. He at all
times positively denied performing espionage on behalf of the Russian govern-
ment, or pennitting espionage in his apartment at 65 Morton Street. New York's
City. He further denied any knowledge of this apartment being used for
espionage from l9h6 to 1950; after he had left the apartment but while it was
still rented in his name. This information will be set forth later in detail;
~ SARANT, when questioned concerning his membership in the Communist
Party, stated emphatically
state that he was e member
imately 18 months sometime
club in Greenwich Village. He
to join or any of the
" He recalled
while at Cooper Union
Union to a national convention
that starting with his college
progressive." and that many of
be right at the timel when hecircunstences connected
that he was e member of
Institute of Technologythat he is not now a member of this Party. He did
of the Communist Political Association for approx-
between l9h3 and 19b5, that he was a member of a
stated that he did not recall how he happened
with his joining. _ ~
the American Student Union
and was a delegate from Cooper
held in Washington, D. C. in l9Ml. He advised
days he considered himself a "liberal and a ,~
the ideas of the Communists seemed to ht: to-
moved to New York City, be just happened to *
join the Communist Political Association. He did not recall where he .
attended meetings, who got him
members of the club or branch to which he belonged. He stated that JQEL_§§§§to join the Party, or the names of any other .
and JULIUS ROSENBERG were not members of this branch; He stated that he A
never was a member of any other branch. According to SARANT, when he-found. .
that the meetings consisted chiefly in arguments and lcngthy,discussions, he
just stopped going. He denied being e Party member or going_to.any Party Q.
meetings since that date. He denied ever knowing his wife as a member of
_the Communist Party; ' ' -.
- _ Subject was questioned concerning any trips made by bin to New York92
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Buick, _ .- _ V, :,~'-~§[':- - , _
. . . -.~s»~-M2. A trip with his wife and children on tne train; ' rgijy 1 3
. ;~ _.--_!~ 4::-I -r 3. A trip when he went alone by traha,zeturning with a car ,;;i,gf»;
purchased in New York City; . - .=' p" ".%
' ' s
h. A trip with his wife and children in his own automobilegh ;3
. 5. A business trip in his own car with JOSER§>¢TERMAGGIO. ~ _Y; A
with reference to the above, SARANT advised that he could recall.i F
the details of the trip made by him with JOSEPH INTERMAGGIO to New York ~ , 1
City He advised that this trip took place early in 1950, that he and of 92 , .
INTERMAGGIO went to New York in an effort to raise money for the purpose '~'.
of buying an interest in La Rock's Paint Store. The tri? lasted approxi-5; . ~"~
metely three or four days. He steyed with his family in Baldwin, Long ~ *
Island; IHTERHAGGIO stayed with his family in Oceanside, Long Island. He
was with INTERMAGGIO only one day in New York City in an effort to raise
some money. He recalled having a difficult time in locetiné INTERMAGGIO~ '1, .
and waiting for him in the office of an exporter namedKhNDERSON in Mid- Itown New York. INTERMAGGIO had instructed him to meet him there. That ¢ '
was the only time he was actually in Hew York City during this trip. He. *
denied-visiting 65 Morton Street on this trip or any other trip to New Y 1 . , »
York City since he moved to Ithaca. He denied visiting the SARAET LABQ§;"
ATORIES since moving to Ithaca. He denied contacting Joixus Rqsmjmlpng on
any.of these trips. It has been established through intcrriev with Sub- '
3ect's wife that while he was in New York on this trip, she had to call in V »
a plumber, Brewer & Brown Company, 306 W- Lincoln Street_ Ithaca, to have §
some emergency plumbing repeirs made. ROGER BROWN, treasurer of this com-i ;
puny, advised that the date of these repairs was February 20, 1950. ~; -:-' ,
r ' * " ~ vSARANQ/did definitely recall one other trip to New York City} fl. F
He stated thatLQ; went to the city in November_ 19b6, to attend a concert d '
given b;'BEl§H7SANDERS at Times Hell on East h3rd Street. He did not "-TI ~
recall where he stayed or any other details, but added that he might have 4%%see:1_ v§_§§_1.¢_x.i{*§;1.1xss;¢1;Ar1 on this trip. . ,. . .~*'<~.=_»j A.»
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SARAHT, during the course of the interviews had with him, denie
ever knowing anyone in New York City on East 7th
college chum whose name he could not recall. He
visiting 112 East Tth Street_ denied ever havingStreet
denied
JULIUSat this address, and denied ever using the nsme?§lTON;
During the search of Sub3ect's residence, Spc
MAHONEY located a book entitled "Microwave Transmission
published by the Sperry Gyroscope Company_ Inc._ Manhatt ' -
Brooklyn, New York. This book bears serial #h96h and is marked confiden-
tial. The following appears on the inside page:' 4
. Q I h
a A
, except maybe some
ever living at or
ROSENBERG visit him
or any other alias
cial Agent JOHN D.Design Data,"
an Bridge Plaza
"Confidential ~ This document contains infonnation
affecting the national defense of the United States
within the meaning of the Espionage Act 50 U.S.C. 31
and 32, as amended. Its transmission or the revelation '
of its contents in an manner to an unauthorized person
is prohibited by lawQ"
Subject advised that an ndividual nomod JosPPe<EhEoAs ith A Len w -I-I A -A W. . . . . / - 3 -whom no woreed at the gstern Elg5§ric_Compdny, gave him the boon, but .
that ho docs not recall wEE it was givEH EiT 'He denied ever furnishing
any information in this book to any unauthorized person. He stated that
BREGAR offered to get him such a book after he had expressed interest in _
a similar copy_ which was in BREGAR's possession. *
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SARANT has advised that he has had an interest in photography as a
hobby since his high school days and that he was doing his own developing 1 '§
while in high school, with ordinary amateur equipment purchased in some store -,-
in Hempstead. He believed that he first owned a small Brownie camera. He " H
later purchased a C2 Argus camera in some store in Hempstead for $25.00. He'*¢ M
recalled that his brother, WILLIAM, also had a sindlar camera. He believed.' <
that he purchased the Argus at about the time he graduated from high schoolor during his first year in collegeE£l2}§%,é It: _ i _, ,
' /,___,.'r' e __ ..
.He advised that he comuted from Cooper Union Institute of Technology -
to his home in Hempstead and that during this time he had only an intermittent :-
interest in camera work. He had, as added equipment, a tripod and recalled he . -
may have had flood lights. He could not recall what hapened to this Argus
camera, whether he sold it, or when he stopped using it. He did recall pur- T
chasing a Bee-Bee camera sometime around 19b5, but he stated he did not re- 5?
member if he had his Argus up until this time., He advised that he purchased a
the Eee~Bee camera from acperson, whoselast name was GOLDBERG. He stated that-
GOLDBERG was working at that time in the Eagle Radar Project, h2nd Street
Plant, Western Electric Company, New York City. He described GOLDBERG as '
follows: short, 5'3" ~ S'h"; slight build, l35lhO pounds; light blond mus- ,
tache. He stated that he paid $65.00 cash for the camera, also buying a flat'
iron for $5.00 at the same time. He believed that these purchases took place ' i
after his marriage in July, lQhS. _@1 ..
This BeeBce camera was obtained during_the search of subjoct'si EQ4
residence on July 20, 1950 by Special Agent JOHN D. MAHONEY; Examination - »
reflects that the box number is lh28S. It has a 10.5 cmt, F2.9 Meyer Gorlitz
Trieplan lens -# 793581; fitted in a Compur shutter # 3537075, manufactured by - , -
F. BECKEL MUNGHEN. The camera was originally designed for use with 6.5 cm. ,
- X 9 cm cut film, film packs, or glass plates; however, a Mice Springbeck ~_"manufactzed by Mice Photo Products Company, Chicago, Illinois, has been - Qattached; o the camera in order to adapt it for use with 2§"X 3%"-cut film or,;p¬
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it thereby making it unnecessary to remove the ground glass to attach the!; f
cut film holder or the film pack adapter. Inquiry made at the Burleigh _l-;
Brooks Company, 10 West héth Street, Hew York City, reflected that these
BeeBee cameras were imported by this firm from Germany and were distributed
in this country_by Burleigh Brooks. ' 1. ~. .»
Mr. FRANK RIZZATTI, of the Burleigh Bnoks Company, advised he
could locate no record of this camera, but that it must have been imported=1_ 7 '
into this country prior to 19hD. Subject advised that he himself covered _ 7 ' _
the camera case in brown leather since its purchase and that he also installed. f
the mico springback. _ V - + .2; '._. 92 F
' 92
The following photographic material was also obtained in the search
of subjects residence:
l Praxidos Enlarger '
l Flashgun and reflecter for camera unknown make!?
1 Pack adapter and ground glass of Bee~Bee camera
3 BceBee plate holders W 1
2 Doigtlander plate holders
1 Pack adapter unknown make!
1 Package 2% X 3% Ansco out film
l Leudi visual light meter
6 Empty developer bottles
10 Spring film clamps '- -"
He advised that he purchased the enlarger from JACK ?!?E6SENBAUM -l=
, while he was working in the Signal Corps Laboratory at Fort Monmouth. Ac- 53 1
cording to SARANT, ALICEfKKTZ, who then resided in Long Branch, New Jersey ~ C
and was also employed inthe Signal Corps Laboratory, told him that a friend' 3
had an enlarger for sale. Ho was directed to ROSENBAUM and purchased the _ W
enlarger from him for $25.00. SARANT recalled that RLSENBAUM lived on the/Y9East Sfe, New York City, around 32nd or 33rd Streets. < <
' Subject advised that he purchased two sets of flood lamps cousisting'
of two bases with four lights on each base! some place on Fulton Street, New" ;i1 >.
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film pack. This Springback has a ground glass focusing screen built into d ~ l il
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AL. 65-16614
York City, after he moved to 65 Horton Street and before he was married; Her , ¬d
stated that he used these as floor lamps and also to take portraits of girls
who visited the apartment. He also stated that he attempted unsuccessfully
to use theso floodlamps in taking document photographs of sheet music while
living on Morton Street. He advised that his technique consisted of placing
the music on a music rack, illuminating the music with two lamps, and then
taking the picture with the camera about two feet away. He believed he used
extended bellows. " ~
SARANT advised that he did most of his own developing while living
in the Morton Street apartment by using the kitchen as his dark room. He N
stated that he once had a bnkolite tank for developing cut film but that he
doesn't reall owning one for roll-film. V
SARANT denied ever doing any other type of documentary camera work
and denied ever using a Leica camera and that he SABANT! used it from time
to time.i He could furnish no details as to the acquisition of this camera _
by BARR and advised that he actually remonbered nothing concerning this
camera. He stated that in the early fall August-September! 19b5, he, his
wife, BARR, and VIVIAN GLASSMAN took a canoe trip in the_Fulton Chain, New ~
York Adirondacks and that BARR had his Leica camera with him at that time. ~
He advised that some of the photographs located during the search of his
residence were taken on BARR'S Leica camera as were various other photo-
graphs taken on hiking trips. _ '
SARANT was asked how he was able to obtain film while he was living
on Morton Street during thevwnr, when film was so very sources He advised.
that he never had any trouble getting the out film necessary for use in his
camera, that many shops on Fulton Street had a more than adequate supply,
and that film supply was no.problem at all, He also stated that there were
shops that carried odd ends of motion picture film, that such film could be
used in some still cameras using roll film, and that he had heard of this
practice being used when film was_scnrce. _ . 5
Q Subject was-questioned as to whether BARR had done any photographic
work at the 65 Morton Street apartment, He stated that he was quite sure
that he had done some portrait work, but never any~documentary work. He also
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stated that BARR had some developing equipment in the Morton_Street apartment
from time to time and that he did some developing work from time to time in
the kitchen. ' ' 'Y
. _ SARANT positively denied ever doing any photogrqahic work at the»'
request of JULIUS ROSENBERG. He further_denied ever doing any documentary
work other than his attempts to photograph sheet music. He also denied doing
any photographic work at BARR'S request or doing an work for the Russian 4
Government or for possible use by the Russian Government. _ . 'i, T
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AIFRED SARANT furnished the following information concerning Apt.
61, 65 Norton Street. New York City. '»
SARAHT advised that in about August, l9k3, he was transferred to 5
New York City from Bayonne, New Jersey, by Western Electric Company, and '
that he went to New York City in the evenings to look for an apartment. He '
finally located Apartment 61 at 65 Morton Street, New York City. He said
that he moved there about October l9h3. He said that no one helped him_ _
locate the apartment .
of JulyDuring the course of the search of Subjcct's home on the evening
l9, 1950 and morning of July 20; 1950, on Cayuga Heights Road,
92-1 Ithaca, Ne York, by authority of a waiver of search signed by the Subject
on July l9,'l95O, a lease was located by SA JOHN D. MAHONEY between the
Subject and 65 Morton Street Realty Corporation, which agreement was mode
on September 19, l9h3. This agrqement was for the rental of apartment 61
at 65 Morton Street. New York City, for a period of twelve months at an
annual rental of $5hO. to become effective October 1, 1933, end to end on
September 30, l9hh.
, SARANT advised that the rental for the apartment
and heat, but he had to pay for gas, lights and telephone.
that he had en A.C. current run into his apartment so that
his record player and occasionally use his electric shaver ~included water
He also said ~
he could use
He had this
from about the time he moved into-this cpertmcnt at e monthly charge of
fifty cents. '
SARANT advised that he lived in the apartment at §§ Morton alone
until hc was married on July 6, l9h5 to LOUISE JACQUELIN§*ROS§},whoso nich-name is PQ§SYCAT or ggss. A K? JIi4J7C',1» >8 .._'-.....' __...__.._.__.._,' .
SARAHT stated that in the summer of l9h6 he decided that he wanted
to go back to school to get a masters degree and he came to Ithaca, New¢>'
York in September, IQE6, to try and enroll at Cornell University. At the ~
time he decided to leave, JOEL BARR told him that he would take over his
SARANTs! apartment tor himself and he intimated that he might turn it =
over 0-WILLIAM PERL who was studying in New York. At that time apartments
wares "arcc in.How York Cit;, and because of this fact, BARR vented the _.
apartment.
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send the money to him and he would
Corporation. He said that he told1
sanmr stated that man, or whoever stayed at the apartment,
not giving up the apartment because he dian't know for sure whether he'
be coming back to New York or not. SARAHT stated that the manager wasAL esiiea. '
want
send a check to 65 Morton Street Realty
the manager of the apartment that he was
would
try~~"
ing to oust him from the apartment and to insure that BARR got the apartment-
hc left a small amount of furniture in it.
that furniture he left there, and said that
about l9h8, and paid the rent by check. HeDuring this interview SARANT said that he kept the apartmentHe claimed he did not remember
he was not paid for the furniture.
until
advised that he received money
orders tron BARR for the rent and after BARR left, the date of which he could
not remember, PERL lived in the apartment and sent him money orders, some of
which came from Cincinnati or Cleveland, Ohio, where PERL was working.
SARANT thought that when PERL moved out, he had received a note
from PERL stating that SARANT should give up the apartment as he didn't need
it any longer. At the time of the interview SARAET stated that he believed
he still had the note from PERL at his hone. He thought that it had been a
year or more ago that he heard from PERL concerning the apartment.
During the course of a search of the Subject's home on Cayuga
Heights Road, Ithaca, by authority of a waiver of search signed by the Sub-_
ject on July 19, 1950, the following letters were located concerning thc'"
apartment,
East 55th
to ALFRED
' 3by SA JOHN D. MAHOLFEY. ' ,-
A letter on the letterhead of 65 Morton St. Realty Corp., 310
St., New York 22; New York, dated September 27, l9h¬, address
SARANT, h22 Eddy Street, Ithaca, New York. _
"Dear Sir:
"I have just been advised by the Bell Telephone Laboratories
that you left their employ on September ll, l9h6, advising
then_that you were planning to enter the teaching profession.
This is in direct contradiction of the story you told no when
I saw you at your apartment. - - _ -ed
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"It is very irmortant for me to know immediately when and
if you are returning to your apartment. If it is for un'
indefinite length of time you are going to be away, I shell
ask OPA for the right to re-rent it. Please let me hear
from you by return mail. '
' "Very truly yours, '
~ 65 Morton St. Realty Corp.
ROBERT GARLOCK, Secretary "
The Subject sent the following letter to GARLDCK, two carbon
_ copies of which were located among his effects, together with a reyiscd.
rough draft copy. i
~ "#22 Eddy Place
c/o V. K. D. Ross I
Itleca, New York
October k; 1936.
"Robert Garlock
E5 Morton St. Realty Corp.,
East 55th Street, _
_ New York, 22, N. Y. '
-.
Dear Sir:
" In reply to your letter of September 27, 19b6, I rent
to restate to you the following facts: -- . _. 92
, 1! It was and still
~ City residence atis my intention to retain my New Ygrk
05 Morton Street, Apartment 61.
2! I do not have a legal residence in Ithaca where I an
sojourning temporarily. ~
3! As you know, my wife is pregnant an because of the diffi- ~
.'. culty of climbing to the sixth floor, she has had to leave f
o "the apartment for the duration of her pregnancy and for '
such time afterwards as her doctor deems necessary. -
4'
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that h
ously.
but he
He was
he did. 92
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4"h! I shall be returning to my apartment at regular intervals =~ -
and my wife and child will return as soon as it is possible. '
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"5! The furniture in the apartment is'my personal property and .
I shell have a caretaker residing there during my periodic - 11. i <
absences. . - '. 1
"I trust that the above information is satisfactorv to -
you. c ._
"Very truly yours,
. ALFRED SARANT "
dated January 23, 1950, as follows: J Also located was a letter
"Mr. Robert Garlock 1
65 Morton st. Realty Corp.
310 East 55th st.New '10:-11, N. Y. "
" "Dear Sir: . »
"Having decided to make permanent residence in Ithacal
I wish to give up occupancy of Apartment 61 at 65 Morton St., -_
effective as of your receipt of this letter. ' ' 92
"I am enclosing a check for $45.50 covering rent for ~
the month of January. .My belongings have been removed from _ .
the apartment so it is available now for a succeeding tenant,
"Yours truly,
_ I
ALFRED SARANT" ,
The above letters were discussed with SARAHT in view of the fact
e previously stated that he gave up the apartment about a year previ-
= He stated he did _not realize that it had been only about six months Igclaimcd he could not remember anything else concerning payments, etc=, '
unable to locate the letter from WILLIAM PERL in which PERL told him _=%
n't need the apartment any more. _ 92 ~~ .
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1. "Deor,_1?_92g_$:8_ and ,5..-4/1'"? 1
0 0 lg hccnt tho theme of this i» W? . 7 1 ,__. _.._ In; r._ _. I. is-:=....#»;~'e#e'»~_,-e-'~'»* ~ ~-'-_92-.~_:> <1-us, ~ ~ ~~ A,._ _. . ._- p ~ .
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Three letters were located in the effects of the Subject k ch 1
are being set out in full as follows:hi
"Settcmbcr 21, l9h6
. ,-
"Hopc vo re settled and living in the style that one would x
like to be a stomcd to. Enclosed are some things that came for
you. Let us Y e they are worth the risk of the higher postage
that may be seq rod on this letter. A telephone bill also came
which I plan to ze care of as a devious indication in small part
of my apprccietio in being invited to bc your guest in your H. Y.
residence. Amen. Landlord still quiescent as regards me!. ~
"I heard and saskéthc at the Phys. Soc. meeting. He's hot
stuff all right. ' 1 ,1 ~
1 n % ~ ,4~i , . ~,-
» ll.-L£..wf~~~-»PI Q v n I ' I 0 " 'I1 and wnen you write to onargo w1l " ' »_, i Jou inlorm her that V4/goo loft Per pictures olot P _ , . _: oérnphs! and sketch book or is the later
-; 921$s'$ up here? ' '
"what's cooking up there? Regards to Mrs. Ross.
Yours ' . .e_:,;i7 . , - E V Ji
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"Thanks for tho check. It came in mighty handy inasnuch as I .
happened to be in need of some potty cash at the moment. Enclosed
.is what I nope is an iron clad bill-of-sale for my few sticks and
stones. Of course, thanks for the use of them that's why you got
"them s ~ * * -J
0 caoagly. nave you heard from Garlock? So for all quiet
here, Enou " ' ' gn oi tnlS.CQrthly dLSCOUI5Q.
"Im taking quantum much. unoer H. A. Krmncrs pupil of Bohr!
Chai nan of Scientific Committee, u.n. Nat. Atom. EH cemmn! looks
~like a wonderful course. Also atomic physics under Rabi, general
physiolovy under "cl" ' s92 .it is Eife?!,
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u .I"Partial Diff, Eq. unier Koopman, and a lab. physics course in which
I'll do mainly optics experiments. Looks like much pleasant work
this term. ; _ ,1
"How's with you? Write and tell all. Love to Puss and regards ' § -
'to Hr. and Mrs.-Ross. I '
' 1
"Your unworthy colleague,
"BILL,-»
4
"P.S. JOEL noticed in a magazine article that the first use of a '.uogno¬ier to read microfilm was in l8b7.
Z ,
. "P.S.S. Enclose&'is a letter. I also have one for Spgrgg, Where A ~ -
shall I send it? Also advert. circulars from Cue!. Also
v Bread and Butter. Do you went this stuff?" . '
1v
* . * * » '
. Apparently the following receipt was encloso& with the above
letter. -
"The following pieces of furniture are hereby sold to ALFRED SARANT
of 65 Horton Street, NYC, by WILLIAM PERL of Cleveland, Ohio, for . -' ' ~
the su of one hundred twenty dollars, received September 30, 1946:
l chest of drawers '
l bureau
l loveseat
l radio
- l tea cert
2 chairs
l maple arm chair _
l mattress -' 92
' "Signed September 30, l9U6 ~_ - 3,
wILL£A¢ PERL
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3. _ "December 30, l9R6
"Your letter was e delight to read so full of hcppinCSS and
good cheer was it. I even smiled intelligently over it. Am glad
you-ere in good shape and that Jeremy is growing up so nicely. .
Have you received any diapers yet from Joel?! L1,j'@i/Q .
"By all means add the finishing touch to Al's Moil and Toil
by presenting him with e classic tome calculated to keep him occu-
pied for the next 20 years. E can recommend no better candidate
for such an honor. , ' <
"P.A.N. Dirac -- The Frinciples of Quantum -- Oxford .
University Press 1935. About $6. or $7.! A convenient place to
get it from is Universiun Book Export Company, H5 East 17th Street,
New York 3, n. Y. They give about 15% discount!. -r .
"A small butcharming volume is ~
- 'The Meaning of Relativity -- Princeton-l9h5. 'c "A. Einstein
University Press -
"If I can do anything about the Jury let me know. Sounds
like a plot by Garloek. , s
"Sparg0'$ in town and looking well.
"Regards - Love,
UB1-LIL"
-x- ~x- -1-».
"K
-_
SARANT was confronted with these letters and he stated that they
were written by PERL because the manager, ROBERT GARLOCK, at 55 Morton
Street, was attempting to re-rent the apartment. He stated that the bill
of sale for the furniture from PERL was merely a paper transaction.
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SARANT was questioned about the fact that_§§3L_apparently was "q y
. living in his apartment when be originally stated that he turned the apart '
went over to BARR. He stated that he did agree to give the apartment'to'1§i _;
BARR, but BARR intimated that he might let PERL have it and apparently hc. " "
did. He stated he was doing a friend a favor and he really didnt eare7
what happened to the apartment and had no interest in it other than getting Q;-
~, nthe money monthly, which
- SLRAHT advised
from BARR and PERL, that
- order, never by check tohe did get. ~J.~.1,"2. ,.l 11.1". ,
"'5 1I
4 <;_'».r92..._~¢92 _;
on July 20, 1950, in discussing payments-received;@e.;
he always received the noney from them by money
tne best of his recollection. He was asked~ .» ,_ -_ .1.-r¢ L, . -
V __ x.92whether they ever paid him in cash and he stated that on one occasion PERL ,1f"
paid him a lwxp sum in cash; later in the same interview he stated that' '
JOEL BARR night have given him this money. He said_that it was for six M
months, later changing it to five or six months, and stated further that - ' *"'. . .t
' 92
it was paid personally in a cash lump sun by either BARR or PERL. V 1 _ *"?
SARLNT stated that BARR could have given him the money when he -,
cane to Ithaca, New York in lato"l9h6 or early l9h7. He also stated that_ ,5f»,
PERL could have given it to him in 19h? when he was at Ithaca. l _ ,s gs Y
.. _ ~ .';"_h ;_
SARANT claimed he could not recall the details or who gave him ~, _ 4
the money, further that he did not remember what he did with the money, i* A ~
whether he deposited it or whether he kept it in his pocket. He stated_j
that money doesnt mean anything to him. i " _ . ;. _"J Q, _ 1
4 Subject stated that he did not discuss the apartment with either
BARR or PERL when he saw them in Ithaca, New York. v -. ; ; "
He stated that when he left New York City to cone to Ithaca,_hoi;_
didn't know whether.he would want to return to New York later on so he ' _f
wanted to keep his apartment at 65 Morton Street, New York City. He again'w
stated that he left some furniture and he could recall that he did leave,a'A _
_bed and possibly a chair; but he could not remember definitely anything ~ ' i
else he left there. Subject stated that he left this so that he could hold §"
the apartment in case he wanted to return and so that JOEL BARR could move.='in, 3 . t ' . ' __ ~.5~§?
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SARLHT stated that he could remember perfectly that he aid not _
give e key to JOEL BARR or anyone else, because JOEL BLRR had a duplicate L
key. He stated that BARR had a key because he occasionaly stayed at the
apartment " ane he was e good friend of his. SARANT stated that he still _
has e key for the apartment.H . t 1
Subject said that BARR told him that either he or PERL would '
use the apartment and whoever used it woule send the money to him. up
said that he did not have the utilities changed over, but left them in
his name. He stated that he presumed they woul pay these bills; He .
recalled that he had received a refund of $15.00 from the Gas and Electric -_ .._ .~x¢.-
was. He claimed he never asked either BARR or PE3L;about this and stctcd'
that no one ever mentioned it to him. '-
SLRLHT reuuibered that he received a lettcr_fron the Telephone
Company asking permission to shut off his phone, but stated he could
not recall when, or any of the details of tis matter. - '
A SARAHT advised that his wife was cognizant of the apartment ,
arrangements with JOEL BARR and that se sometimes made out the checks
for payment of the rent. He also claimed that she sometimes cashed or »
deposited the money orders received for payment of the rent. v ~
On .m1;,- 21, 1950, s,mr;:': fvrnishecl the following :1-.';<1ition0."l" F
information concerning the aparuxnn
He stated that 3- Lad never been beck to the apartment since he '5
left there in l9h6.
An outline of the apartment was awn by the Subject, this being'§
Apartment 61, 65 Morton Street, New York City.' According to him, the __.
ayartment was on the 6th floor nn Q hall leads to the adertent This =5 '
hall leads into the middle of the livin room. with the kitchen to te "~3:
vright. On the left was a bathroom and a clothes closet; beyond the bath "
and clothes closet was the beQroon._ . t 1 4
. » n - A . ,;' $2. In going over toe pnysical set up 01 txe apartment with the. ~
Subg: t, he recalled that there was a bed and bookcase in the bedroom. lwn_ ._ ., I -. ' v~_h§' -», .~'_ .=1 '-V: [Q3., _ n.I <-_'-113$,
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I , .;- "I . -| '|I o~ ' ,1 s4_He did not remember where he got the bookcase but he remembered that he I_
purchased the bed, which was o Hollywood type double bed, from Hecrn's on ,;w_4
lhth Street, New York City, and believed he paid $39.95 for the bed end _ K
the some for box-spring mattress. 'He was positive that he bought this * , _[T
after he moved to the apartment. .A K Y 92
He recalled that he had a folding card table of dork color 'l~
which he brought vith bin from Bayonne, New Jersey. He stated that he
used this table in the kitchen to cot on. He said that es for as he could;ts-
recall, this was the only furniture in the_kitchen except for some chcirs,f¥f. .,.
In the living roon there was a day bcd,uhich he~still has in hisT§*'
home in Ithaca, together with a maple table which he also brought to ' ; _;
Ithaca. He had his record player and cebinet,a]so now in Ithaca, and - ' '
believes that he had o maple lamp but doesn't know what happened to it. 192~.
After going over the furniture set up, the Subject advised that.
the only things he knows he left in the apartment were the bed, the card
table in the kitchen, and the lamp. ~ l _ b
u The Subject advised on July 2k, 1950, that he could not find the
key that he had for Apartment 61, 65 Morton Street, New York City, and that =»
he had either lost it or had made a toy out of it for his son, STEVEN. >= 5' 1
He stated the key had 61 stamped on it and that he had stamped it on the _' t
key himself, probably while he was at Western Electric Company.. . , .-,
SARANT advised that he and his wife had talked about the sports
mcnt and they could not recall how they were advised that they should givet"v
up the apartment. He stated they were certain that it wasn't by telephone,
or telegraph, and he believed it was a note with the last money order, . r
telling him to give up the dpartmcnt. He stated that his guess was that _
PERL sent the last money order. . ~ .~ < .j
Subject advised, after talking with his wife, that he could now 3", '
recall one occasion when they received o money order from VIVIAN GLASSMAN.-: ~
He could not explain why he should have received the money order from her. -
He was sure that the only ones that ever paid the rent were JOE§ §ARB,, ~' ~WILLIAI-§ PERL and VIVIAN GLASSMMI. ' - M
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. _,,._ 31 .1A It should be noted that the Subject stated that he received'7 ~ U
money orders from JQEL BARR, WILLIAM PERL and YIVIAN GLASSMAH for the - '
payment of the rent on all occasions, with the exception of one lump wt,
sum which he received, information about which has been set out above.~;=3j
Albany Confidential Informant T-1, of known reliability, "~l ii
checked his records and advised that the following money orders were
sent to the Subject as payee, on the following dates:
Date
- -£7
-k7
3k710-28-A7
1-22-#8
11-2h-n8
8-8~h9Amount '
$h5.5O
$h5-50$h6.o0
$u6.oo
$h5.00
$u6.oe
$h5.00
In theM . O . Iimnber
162,213
57,hZ#
195,001
199,693
211,o1u
913 57h .
958 , #87 1Remitger
M;;PEnL
n~ ' ncm V,,»sAvi
w PERL
» W: PERL
W. PERL
W. PERL
VIVIAH GSMAN. . -u
Station ~
Village
Bryant '
Village
Village -
Village
Columbia
Church LAS _ _ _
search of Subject's residence, several hundred cancelled
checks were located by SA PETER F. MAXSON. An examination of*these checks
reveals that the following were made payable to and cashed by the 65 Morton
Street Realty Corporation. These checks are listed below by date and by ~
maker. Numbers of these checks are also listed when available. All cheeks
listed were made out in the amount of $h5.5O.' v-
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In addition to the cancelled checks listed above, several check
stub books of the First National Bank, Ithaca, New York, were located .t_ _
during the search of Subject's residence. Items reflecting payment to f? - W»
j Morton Street Realty Corporation, which are not supported by cancelled . 3 :1, _
checks listed above, and which are contained in the stub book, are here- Q
inafter listed. All of these items are in the amount of $h5.5O and appear
in the stub book under the following dates: c ~
11-21-n7 ~ -
12-ii-1+7
1-2-I->8 - 9
l~3O-R8 3-k9 _
2-an-ha 9 ' 1I
§t,Stsmfor§,_Ngw York; »
lr. FRED TICE and Hr. HENRY ELHYN, SR., formerly Assistant '
Superintendent of the apartment building at 65 Morton Street, New York
City, and Mrs. FRED TICE, were interviewed. on July 28, 1950 '
Mr. FRED TICE, who new resides on Main Street, South Kortright,
New York, was interviewed st his place of business in Stamford. He stated . -
that he was Assistant Superintendent of the 65 Morton Street apartment~.
from Novenberl9hLto October, l9h6. f. , n
Mr. TICE said he knew ALFRED SARANT as a tenant who resided in
Apr.-.rmc-mt 61:. 1-=11». TICE stated that he ma occasion. to sec SARAI-IT and _ *
talk to him n number of tines. It was pointed out by Hr. TICE that he '
collected the rent each month from SARLNT which he was often tardy in
paying. Payments were usually by check. On some of these rent collect-
ing visits to SARAHT's apartment, he would be invited in sometimes for a
drink. . '
¢ .
' Mr. TICE advised that he had been in the apartment a few times 1
to fix windows and doors. He recalled the first time he had contact with i
SARANT was in late November, l9Rh, when he had to fix a pipe that was
leaking in the bathroom. It was also stated by Mr. TICE that in the
winter_,_01_' 191+5-19%, cs he recalls it, he e.nd1~ir. HENRY EL.~.-YN, Sr., u 1 s
- suycritendent of the building, removed a wire, apparently an AC wire-
fromSS%RANT's rpnrtncnt. This wire was stapled to the window in the-Y
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AL 695-1661+
living room of apartment 61 and was"hanging down the side of the building. ,
Mr. TICE was not certain whether this wire was fastened to a window of .-
Apartment 51, which was directly beneath Apartment 6I. This wire, which, ,_;.¢
TICE has maintained in his possession, was obtained during the course of ;" 3*
this interview. ' - i ,'j ~. I .' r - -.1
Mr. TICE said that from these visits to the SARANT apartment, he . ' 1
recalls that there was never much furniture. He remembered seeing a hone- »
made bed in the bedroom, a work bench in the living room, and some radio
- equipment which caused Hr. TICEto assume that SARANT was a "ham" radio '
operator. Mr. TICE could not name any specific radio equipment that he
saw-and said he remembered that at the time he noticed it he thought of it ~»
as being radio equipment which would be in possession of a hen radio Q
operator. Mr. TICE went on to state that following SARAHT's marriage in --
- the summer of 19b6, it appeared that little by little more furniture was
added to the apartment's furnishings, but_that there was never very much '
in the way of furniture there. Mr. TICE also mentioned that he recalls ,
seeing a musical instrument, just what instrunent he can't reneber, and
a music stand_in the apartment. .¢
1
Hr. TICE stated that prior to the summer of l9h6, which was the
time that SARAHT informed him that he was married, that there were often
girls who visited the apartment. Mr. TICE said he never knew the names
of any of them and doubts that he would recognise the pictures of any of
them except SABANTs wife, who lived with SARANT in the apartment prior H "
to the time they said they were married. Mr. TICE said that parties were
often held in Apartment GI, both before and after SLRANT's marriage, but
mostly before that tine. In describing these parties, Mr. TICE said that
they seemed to him to be big raucous drinking affairs. He did not recall
any musicales being held in the apartment. -
~ " Mr. TICE said that SARAHT and his wife moved out about a month,
as he recalls it, prior to the.time that he, Hr. TICE, concluded his job,"
which would place it around September 1, l9h6, that SARANT left. TICE "
said that he was in the apartment once following SARANTs departure and
noted that all the furniture had been removed. Mr. TICE said he remembers
SARANT tolling him he was leaving because he was being transferred in his
job, and that he was moving to Massachusetts. TICE further advised that
he wa§ introduced by SARANT to the nan that was going to take over the . ~
apartment wlen SARANT left. He said that SARANT introduced him as "my _
cousin" but he does not new recall the man's name, -¥_ ~
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when Mr. TICE was shown 0. photograph of JOEL BARR , he stated W ' '
that it could have been the men who replaicecl SI.R.-H~I'I_ in the apartment, but
that he could not be certain. Mr. TICE said he never again sea.-r the new A
tenant following the introduction uentionec. above and cannot positively .- =
state when or whether this new tenant actually moved there. Hr. TICE ex- ' , . v. 3plained that he, TICE, was himself moving from the apartment building at 1:
about that time. . 4
It was Mr. TICE's c-bservation that the -SARANT apartment had AC
current throughout the time that SI'.R.AI-1'1 lived there. I -/
1 Photographs of ALFRED 4SARANif, EL BARR, DAVID GREEI-.G_LASS, GREENGLASS, JULIUS ROSENBERG, H. BRUCE1§fJ§'TOl-I, MAX ELITCHER, WILLIIXILPERL
and MORTOI-I SOBELL were exhibited to Fr. TICE. He izzmedietely recognized 1
SARANT and BARR. He advised that he often saw BARR entering and leaving
the apartment building and often tines he would be in the company of , ~ »
sm.'a~:T. Mr. TICE said he would not say positively, but feels certain ' " *
that he has actually seen B1-.711 in1S1-.1 e92l~!'I"s apartment. Mr. TICE identified
JULIUS ROSENBERG as n person he recalled seeing: in the drug; store at 85
Barrow Street. He said he positively rezzenbers seeing him the-re as a ' *
customer. He was hesitant in ic.entif3/ing ROSEPIBERG from the photographs
in whic}; ROSENBERG is not wearing glasses, but when shown photograph of
ROSENBERG wearing glasses, he zimde a positive identification. " A ut
92
' Mr. TICE stated that he recalls having seen W. BRUCE DAYTQN butt
he could not place wliere. Mr. TICE also said that wILLL'-1 PERL'"struck a
fmiilizrr cord" with him. He failed to identify DAVID GI<EL§"IGL1'§SS, RUTH
GREENGLI.SS , MAX ELITCHER, or MORTON SOBELL. '
I-Irs. FRED TICE _we.s interviewed and she could furnish nothing
that her husband had not previously covered. She did,exp1o.in that she
and her husband. sometimes observed the "wild" parties that were held in
Apr-irtment GI from the roof 01 the building. -
' The 1>l3ObO'{;I8.ph5 of SARI-.!?'I, 1511113, DAVII! zuicl RUTH GREEI'7GIs tSS, . _
JULIUS ROSENBERG, W. BRUCE Di92Y'1OI-E , I~2A! ELITCHIER, WILLIAI5 PERL 9.116. MORTON
SOBELL were shown to Hrs. TICB. She iatunediately recognized S.!.R./-.I-IT and "
BARR. She said BARR used to stay with Sf-PJLNT for weeks at 1:. tine. This »- was prigr, she said, to sr.r<m~r'r's zzwrriage. 4 ' * - .
I ' . , fl -:Mrs. T1013, said she feels certain tfrat she has seen wILLI;.i-'i PERL __
in the apartment building. She also ste.ted_th:1t W. BRUCE DAYIPN looks lilce ' _>
0. fellow who used to stay with smmw quite 2. bit. _ _ 4 5 r :92'
. ' . A_ a' 4'.-
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'but could make no further idcntiiication. She did not recognize ELTTQEE,
S9BEL§_pr Q§ylD,or QQ$§_§REQHGLASS. '
Mr. HENRY S. ELWYN, Sr., who now resides at Stanford, New York,
RFD, advised that he was Assistant Superintendent of the apartment build-
_ing at 65 Morton Street, New York City; for approximately 16 months. He
gave March 15, l9h7 to July 15, 19b8, as the approximate dates of his cm-'
ployuent there. '
Mr. EIMYN stated that to his recollection, he was in Apartment
.61 only once. As he recalls it now, he entered this apartment one Sunday~
meats. Mr. ELWYH said he does not remember anything concerning the
interior of the apartment. He could not say whether there was any furni-
ture in the apartment. He finally remembered that he noticed a towel . _
hanging on the rack in the bathroom. - . - A l H
It was Mr. ELwYN's observation that he never saw anyone enter
or leave apartment 61 during the time he worked in the building. Mr.
ELWYN advised that he recalls that he was also under the impression that
ALFRED SARANT was the person to whom the apartment was leased, but since
he, ELWYN, never had any occasion to contact the tenant in this particular
apartment, he never saw the occupants of it. Mr. ELWYN stated that it was
his duty to collect the rent from the tenants in some of the apartments
was Hr DLdYU's 1FDrCoSlOD that the rent on this apartment was sent -
directly to tJ¬ Realty Con any. 'but that Apartment 61 was not one of those from which he collected. It *
. ~, _ 1 T . ' J .0 ~
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Mr. ELNYN stated that he remembers that on one occasion, a '
package containing literature was delivered for Apartment 61 from a pub-
lishing house. The date of this was just after July h, l9h7, but the
name of the publishing house and the type of literature was unknown to Mr.
ELWYN.
at the door of the apartment building and placed it in the storeroom where
it was picked up later by a person or persons whom he did not see.
-- "I.<
morning to turn_off the water which was running in the shower. This entry
was made following a complaint from a tenant in one of the adjoining aparti
Mr. ELHYN said that he received this package from the delivery boy~1
¢
u-2h- 92
4-92 ' ~ 721,4 -if Mrs. TICE observed that ROSENBERG'§ picture was very familiarT" 72;
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AL 65-16624 '
-
Mr. ELHYN reiterated that he never saw or heard any activity "
in Apartment 61 during his tenure as Assistant-Superintendent. When . ' -
asked specifically concerning any meetings, musicales, parties and the
like that may have been held in Apartment 61, Mr. ELWYN said he did not Y
remember ever seeing or hearing about any. ' » <1
Photographs of ALFRED SARAHT, JOEL BhRR, DAVID GREEEGLASS,
RUTH GREENGLASS, JULIUS ROSENBERG, W. BRUCE DAYTON, MAX ELITCHER, WIIIJQQQ
PERL and MORTON SOBELL were exhibited to Mr. ELWYH; but he failed to
identify any of then with the exception of JOEL BARR. He identified
the photograph of BARR as a nan for when he fixed an automobile clutch _
around May or June, 19MB. Hr. ELWYN stated he thought the car was a
l9hl Studebaker. He could give no further description of the automobile. -
Thc_car, according to ELUYN, was parked in front of either 53 or 59
Marten Street, but he does not know whether the man lived in either of
the buildings at those addresses or not. Hr. ELWY said that was the
first and last time he had ever seen this person.1
Mr. ELWYU advised that there were easels in the back seat of
this car which lead him to believe that the man was an artist. ELWYH
said he did not ask the man's name; that when he finished the job he was
paid cash for it, end where the man went from there he does not knew. .
ELWYH said that his contact with the person that he identified
as BARR cane about as a result of inquiries made by BARR in the neighbro-
hOu for a person who could fix automobiles. Mr. ELWYH said that in
addition to being Assistant Superintendent of the apartment building, he
also, from time to tine, did mechanic's wort. ~
I
' 1
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" _" ' 7 * ' ' ' 7' " * * ----"J 92 --='»-----::;» ---= --»=.:- 7 7 .________ _;__ _ _ _.._
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' The Subject stated that he left 65 Morton Street, New York City -.- ¢ j. . .
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AL 65-166k JDMEVAT ,
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':~JOUL BARR
Subject furnished the following information concerning BARR on f J
July 19, 1950. . . - . If
.~ _,..
. He stated that he worked at the U. S. Signal Corps, Monmouth,
New Jersey, and he believed that he met BARR there under the following _ _ ,
circumstances. SARAHT worked at Signal Corps from Scptenbcr 22, l9hl
to September 5, l9h2.! He stated as he recalled it, BARR came'around , ,
where he was working and tried to sell him a subscription to the Con- _
sumers Union reports. This was sometime shortly after he started work- ' =
ing. He recalled that BARR worked in the Specifications and Records
Section at the Signal Corps.
SARANT stated that he and BARR became friends and that they may '
have seen each other weekly at BARR's residence in Long Branch, New _ '4
Jersey, or at his residence in New Jersey. Thcy.lived about two to-
three miles from each other. SLRAHT stated that BARR was discharged from
the Signal Corps because he was a Communist. SARANT denied that he know
of his own knowledge that BARR was a Communist and stated that he never
discussed it with BARR, ,
SARANT advised that he SARANT! was discharged on September 5,
l9h2, from the Signal Corps with prejudice, for failing to obey orders. 1
He then went to work for Western Electric at Bayonne, New Jersey, and
when he wcht there BARR was already working there in the mechanical end f
of Radar. About a year later both he and BARR were transferred to the
Western Electric at 59th Street, New York City,-but'not at the same time
as far as he could rencmber. A2
Subject advised that he may have first met JULIUS ROSENERG_-
through JOEL BARR and he believed that BARR and JULIUS ROSENBERG were I
classmates at college. _ _ '}
for Ithaca, New York, about September, l9h6. He did not-recall the exact w
date. He advised that apartments were scarce and that when he decided to jlmowe§JOEL BARR told him that he would take over the apartment at 65 " 1
Mort 'Strect. As far as he could remember, BARR told him that he needed ~»J.92. ' "
.
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an apartment for himself and intimated that he might turn it over to"*=
WILLIAM! PERL, who was studying in New York. He was not sure exactly-~ ;
what BARR told him, but because of the scarcity of apartments and be- vx§;_
cause of an argument with his landlord, it was agreed that SARANT wouldfgi f g
leave a little furniture in the apartment,_that he would pay the rent, fki; y. ;
and that BARR, or whoever stayed there, would reimburse him. .;;,i~?¢§;};,». » : . , . .
The Subject stated that the last time he saw BARR was one Yxft f
time when BARR came to Ithaca to visit him. He could not recall the '
date, but thought it was sometime in late l9b6 0: early l9h7. He said f
that BARR, as far as he could iemember, was out of work and had bought. "
- an automobile, and said he was going to Florida. SARANT stated he has Q.~
never heard from BARR since that date and he was emphatic on this point.F4 .
. | _.
__! SARANT said that he had heard that BARR was in Finland, andigzd
when questioned about this thought that he might have learned this by x:-. ,calling BARR's sister IRIS¢'§ARR! on one of his trips to New York City. 5
He did not remember where the BARRs lived, but thought it was some place_
on 97th Street in New York City. He thought she told him that BARR was, "
in Finland studying music. " " ~~ ". " .' v 1
s During the search of Subject's home on the evening of July l9lf
and morning of July 20, 1950, a letter was located by SA JOHN D. MAHDNEY;,
dated December 21, 19b8, addressed "Dear PUSS and AL" and signed, "Lovc,7.'1
IRIS." Subject stated that this letter was from IRIS BARR, the sister -§*
of JOEL BARR. The letter states that JOEL was in Stockhohm, Sweden at '
the present and was attending the Technical University there. According
to the letter, he was very happy and regretted the day he would have to Q
return. The letter further states that YBILL PERL was up to see us.' Do
you know that he's in Cleveland" He too hasnt heard from JOEL. It ~~~
seems to me that JOEL lost complete ties with his USA friends. Nobody J
even hears from, except my Mom and7ARTIE nnd?ROSE." J g ';_._~
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The letter further stayed that in case they wanted to write "= .
to JOEL, his address was "Mr. Js»BARR, care of Anderson Markuardsgaten. ' -1
ll, II Stockholm, Sweden." ' ; . . _ _ V}
r when the Subject was confronted with this letter he stated x 3
that he had completely forgotten about the fact that B92RR's sister h d ¢~_ 4 , _ . a
written giving JOEL BARR!s address in Stockholm, Sweden. _ v ~_ .:- ~ Y. V-"1 D -.1 "
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During the course of the sane search, two letters addresse to
"Dear JOEL" by BILL PERL, were located and are being set out below.
"Deer JQEL;ij_» I yf
The point and necessity of this letter is the guitar. Enclosed
is e noninnl sun for purchase of said instrument. eedless to
say, HETTY and I are deeply grateful for your interest in this
matter. Thanks to you end AL.
§;~¬*"§ .1 1./z '-1 /3" - .
We'reJstuQying German from a grammar now. It is called
the New German Grammar, and the English ports are easy-going.
"Otherwise ell is strictly in a rut so to speak. Thanks
again. ' _ _ '
. _ _"wIn§,/%é!§j;_The
first one, undated, reeds es follows: . A ".
"I and nine are well and hope you and yours ere likewise. ' _
' The second letter is dated April 8, 19h5, and reads as follows
"Dear JOEL, '
Guitar received with all chorus in good order; also
letter. will pay you balance when I next sec-you.
- "About vactioning this summer. Even the thought of carry» y
in; e canoe appeals to me. What would you say, however, to taki
e cabin or two by the shores of some Minnetonka or ether, with
canoes available for short excursions into the hinterland? A
fixed base of operations, say in some state perk or other, can .
make things right comfurtable, particularly at night. Let me
hear from you on this vital subject, as to where, when, who, etc
I can take a_g?weeks vacation, I think, just when, I can't say
yet. whntfa<MORTY doing for u vacation? _/
.., "Life is the usual hundrun routine. The war reverbcrates
pe§nefully all around me. They say it will soon be over. That
woulu. be nice.
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I what do you think of my new literary tyle as embodied in " , §'f' _
the previous paragraph? It is intended to be blood curdling. , _ M;
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"Let's hear. ' ' ' _
. f§§TY.and WILL 4
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"P.S. Ever heard of Candlewood Lake in Connecticut. Nice place.-
State parks on one side." ' .I
The Subject was questioned concerning these letters and it was
pointed out to him that they were addressed to JOEL BARR. He stated "
that he had no explanation as to how they happened to be among his
papers, other than the fact that JOEL BARR visited his residence at 65 '§
Morton Street frequently, and on many occasions would read a letter in
the apartment and leave it there. He stated that when this occurred *
it was undoubtedly picked up by him and placed in the desk or some other »
receptacle. A ~' 9
On July 20, 1950, SARANT advised that the money for the apart-
ment was sent him in the form of money orders from either WILLlAM!mR§BL '~
or JOEL BARR, and he knows that he never received a check from either of
them for the rent. He was questioned concerning when and the dates each
paid him, but he denied that he could remember. He stated that he re-
called receiving a lump su in cash for five or six months rent and he
could not remember when, but remembered that it was paid to him person-
ally and was not sent through the mail. He thought that it could have
been given to him when BARR came to Ithaca, New York, to visit him in .1
late l9h6 or early lQh7, but he was not sure. He stated it could have" '_ ¢
been given to him by WILLIAM PERL. Subject recalled that when BARR came °
to Ithaca, he did so specifically to see the SARANT's new baby, who was
born on December A, 19h6. He believed that BARR was here shortly after _=
this time and he recalled that BARR had a Packard automobile. ._
In connection with the apartment, SARAHT remembered that he did '
not give his key to BARR because BABE had a duplicate to the apartment at '
65 Morton Street in New York. He stated that he had given a duplicate key -
to BARR because they were good friends and had a mutual interest in music,
hiking and photography. He stated that BARR used to stay there at 65
Morton Street occasionally. He could not remember how often. _ .
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In com:c»c"t-ion x-zit}: tin; pnyrncnt 01 the rant whsn BARR téok over 1 <
th"; t~1?0.rt1n<:nt; he rc:¢;.11.l-:~c'-. BARR snl;-'1'.z1L; that either he or P3131, wcul use 7 4' '
ha a;mrtrna~rzt, an-1 that -=1i;o-:v.:r usul the agmrtancnb would send the money i ;' _
_ tr SARAIKT. H0 -..'-as q_uczstrE<om2rIL about tim 'pr_-3/r.1cn"t oz the utilitics, which 1~ __ " ,1~'-':I'¢ still in hi5 mim: when }*-'.- 1.-.-ft, zmal 11¢ state;-d that he couldn't rc- _
all any ar1~;921:3<.-rtczxts mad? with BARR, but hr; p192.sumc<l that tt~.r.~;; voulcl ' '
1 ,' the bills.. >
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5P$1»;3921.T- 0.-"§vi.scd ti",-71".; 11:26 ::. L-.;-ica Cr.unr;r:;, mat he denied , .
_ our taljzing with BARF. sioout ".~:n<.~r¢: he sought tire ca.rn;r:=., tin: Late or ' -
9»!r.hir15»about the ca.:.m-r;;.- I?-2 d.<;m'ui knc-x-;irg'tlm.t JULIUS ROSE1.="BE_RG gave -_ '
til Z.-cica Camcrv. to BAT:R or that tlzcy used the cam.-r:~. to phctogr:-.ph . ' - ~
E0-1-112.1 for JULIUS ROSISNZKERG. _ .z
Subj¢ct .:'.dvi.s-1.-cl c-11 ~Iu1;,* 21, l"_-750 that he and B.=1RR. used to ,
P93-5 H-xsicalcs in the apartmcm at S5 13-iort-011 Stn;-nt, fie"-=1 York City.
'5?-' ¢::cribc.-=1 musicales as the I.jl=J.}'ing of 11-corded ch:-.r:=b:,r and folk ~=_
501112! vwic, and cthcr reccrrlc.! ' Ht stcttcd that 7-.1:.".nj.' times BARR would
11016 lmsc musicales wit}: in~vi"-'.-:13. i"riur;-'is 01' his, '.-:11or;a 5'1-.I1.=92HI did not
§<-'14?-v-A is bu recalls, th-.~sc musicalcs mre hclcl possibly as often as
OEICF; ..Q_~;]_:,', » .
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~ SARAPTI sintccl tlzart kc and L1?-.?.R and other friends , the names of_
whom he xculcl not rc:[email protected] or stat-1-<1 be did. not 1:11-'2».-, woul. often go on
W-l¢<51<'-Ynd !i;ing trips tcgathcr. czuld.n't rc:z.1=2nzb~:.r xrlzurc the trips
were. Sic ==d."-.~'is:;<:. "mat E.-'=_lRR cr.3. 11¢ 1:-en. cm titccc Y.'..';!O ; trips lasting ' _
T01 1?-I° ~C'>:s, in ti"c J.eJ.:tc-r part of A-1-R-:92~1-St or carly 1_-cart of Scptcmbcr, _
19:43; 191?; and. 1915. Subjuct ét-c-.t<.-ii tI":.:.-, tlzey alra-ys had .2 cr-xncra on
thsc tripu He bc1iev¢d he had his own Argus c-2 Camera on the 19h3
t1"iP» Z1116 . _t -:-'it.2a-1' tl-=<.;,' b1'C>ugl:t his Argus or ?3ARR's Leica Camera on
the 197-#14 trip. He state'i'}z-;> did. not rc::"nu::.'mr.' On the l91+5'trip they _ '
b1°921F5?1t B.AZil'-s Loica Gamer:-._; he was 1:~.irl;,' sure of this. .-.7
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- -vu~;:c"c soc.tc,C'-. as far as I'>~:."~ cculzl rctall, he and JCEIJ l
. -.:-.-nt on ti;-.: rst trip c.lon<:. on *;1~=<-.~ second trip , BARR, and _a girl
- ncmr;-u_ V1VL3Z'F ;a::1';. tho cazwc trip tcntth-:r. This was in 191$. He denied. ~
@¢@t he kncv 111A§=s last n&mQ and iuscribcd her as a friend of BARRe.-#1»
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i » SARANT stated that he may have attended musicales at BARR's
home on 97th Street. He denied that he could remember BARRs eddrcss,§
- on 97th Street. He believed that many of the photos taken on the
various hiking trips were taken with BARR's Leica Camera. ,
On July 2h, 1950, the Subject stated that in talking to his
wife, she recalled that BARR telephoned them at M22 Eddy Street, Ithaca,
New York, to say goodbye before he left for Holland. He said that he
could not recall any of the details of this. -
On July 22, 1950, Subgect furnished_further inibrmation-con-H
ccrning JOEL BARR which is set Ont in the Rcchion of this report - '
entitled fsqgnnw p¢§Q3ATnRTns."
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1* 5 .2On July l9,l95O, ALFRED SARANT furnished the following in- Y
formation concerning WILLIAM PERL. He stated when asked whether he ;;
knew PERL that he had met PERL once or twice and that he met PERL .*
through JOEL BARR at BARR's hone. He could not recall the circumstances
or where BARR lived. Later, he stated that he had met PERL through
BARR when BARR cane to see him at 65 Morton Street, New York City,
and brought PERL with him. He state that he recalled he was trying
to sleep at the time and that it was about 10 P.M. He stated he "
recalled that BARR and PERL had gone to school together but could
not remember the late that he first net PERL. He believed he was~
single at the time and he thought it was in l9hh. SARANT stated as
he recalled PERL was a student and he recalled that PERL later on
was at Cincinnati or Cleveland, Ohio.
' He stated that PERL lived in the apartment at 65 Morton
Street, New York City, after JOEL BARR left there. He advised that ~ 1 *
he believed that PERL sent him money orders for the rent at 65 <
Morton Street, New York City, and that is how he knew that PERL
was either in Cincinnati or Cleveland, Ohio. He was sure that he -.
never received any checks from PERL for the rent. '
1In discussing with SLRANT how he happened to turn his
apartment over to JOEL BARR, BARR told him that he needed an apart- ~
ment for himself and he intimated to SARANT that he might turn it _A'
over to PERL, who was studying in New York City.
SARANT stated that he believed that PERL was studying aero - nautical engineering with a nan named¥VO§§KARMAN ph.!. .
.He stated that he saw PERL five or six tines and that he .
always saw him with JOEL BARR, _ r ' _
SARANT stated that he gave up the apartment at 65 Morton ;_
Street, New York City, wheh he thought-he-received a note fro -
WILLIAM PERL saying that he did not need it any longer. :
_ On this date SARANT stated that he thought that he still
had the note which PERL had sent him. He stated on this date that
he had given up the apartment a year or more ago.
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On the evening of July l9, 1950 and the morning O: rnjy 20
1950, a search of subject's home at Cayuga Heights Road, Ithaca, v1 .
York, was conducted by authority of Waiver of Search signed by SARANTon July 19, 1950 and letters were located by Special Agent JOHN D. , Y
MAHONEY in the den of subject's house. y ' ";
Under caption "65 Morton Street, Nev York City" it was pointed
out to SARANT that a review of the letters showed more than a casual
acquaintance with PERL. He stated that the letters were written by
PERL because of the fact that Mr. GARLOCK, of 65 Morton Street Reslty_
Company, had not wanted him to turn the apartment over to anyone else.-
The bill of sale for the furniture was given for the same reason.
In connection with the above letters, SARANT was asked ~-
whether he knew HETTY SAVIDGE, n friend of PERL's. He stated that he
might have met her once, but knew nothing further concerning her.
In discussing the 65 Morton Street apartment, New York City,
the subject stated that as far as he could recall he was paid by money
order at all times each month by JQEL BARR or WILLIAM BERL with the
exception of one time he remembered that he was paid a lump sum for _
five or six months. He stated he received this money in cash personally
from either JOEL BARR or WILLIAM PERL. He could not remember when this
was paid to him or any of the circumstances surrounding the transaction.
He stated that PERL might have given it to him because he recalled '
seeing PERL once since leaving New York City and that was in Ithaca,
New York. In trying to refresh SARANT's recollection of this trans-
action, he recalled that PERL came to see him when he lived at h22 ,
Eddy $treet, Ithaca, New York. He stated it was sometime between the
time he bought the lot at Cayuga Road, Ithaca, New York, about April, '~
l9h7 and the time he moved from h22 Eddy Street, Ithaca, about July,
l9h8. He believed that when he arrived home at about 5 P.M. one day he
found WILLIAM PERL there and that PERL stayed for dinner and left in
the early evening. He remembered that PERL did not have a car because
SLRANT dropped him off where he was living later in the evening. As
far as he could recall he drove PERL to the Cornell University Aero-
nautics Building, or by the Aeronautics Building or to the place that
PERL was living. He was sure that PERL was not staying atca hotel
but claimed he could remember nothing more about the incident. He
recalled that PERL was here for more than a day and believed it was
"maybe on the order of a week". He believed that PERL was at Ithaca,
.New Zork to confer with some people in the aeronautics laboratory at
Cornell University on a specific assignment for the company he worked
for in Cincinnati or Cleveland. He stated he did not - » '
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know whet the problem was as PERL did not discuss it with him. He i
stated that PERL could have given him the lump sum in cash_at that
time, but he had no definite recollection of it. He was "reasonably _
sure" that he never saw PERL after this time. In connection with the T,
apartment he remembered that he never gave the key to the 65 Morton e :7
Street, New York City apartment to anyone because BARR had a duplicate
at the time he left. ' ~
SARANT denied that PERL ever lived at 65 Morton Street, New
' _York City, with him and when asked whether PERL ever had his name on I , e
the mail box denied that he ever knew that PERL's heme was on the mail ~.,_ y
box. .l ~9292
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Professor WILLIAM'¬EARS, Aeronautics Laboratory, Cornell
University, Ithaca, New York, was interviewed on July 22, 1950. He
recalled that he had made arrangements with WILLIAM PERL to lecture
at Cornell on October l2, l9h8. He produced correspondence on this
matter and further advised after checking telephonically with his -
wife, that PERL had stayed over night at his home on that occasion.0
Further, Professor SEARSadvised that WILLIAM PERL had . . 92
at his and Professor ARTHURKhHTROWITZ's invitation stayed at Cornell
about two months one summer. He stated that this stay of PERLs had
no official connection with Cornell University and that it had come
about as follows. PERL was working as an assistant to VON KARMAN at
Columbia University and was to take his "prelims" at Columbia in the -
Fall. He believed this was in l9h7.! PERL was having difficulty
finding sufficient quiet and time to study so he was invited to use ~
office space and stay at Cornell. SEARS stated he had known PERL for,
several years, having met him at Columbia. He could not recall where_
PERL lived in Ithaca, New York, but believed it was at some rooming
house. He stated that he considered PERL one of the outstanding .
young men in the country in aeronautical engineering. He stated
that PERL"s field was on wing theory but new he is working on -
mathematical problem of compressible flow of air, both inside and
outside. . ' ' =
Professor ARTHUR KANTROWITZ of Cornell University, Ithaca, 4
York, was interviewed on July 22, 1950, and he advised that he F
to take his final exams at Columbia University in October, l9h7,"
and that PERL was to take his "prelims" at the same time. Heyand ,
SEARS invited PERL to Cornell to study and as he recalled, PERL was
here from about July, 19%? until about September, l9U7. KANTROWITZNew
was
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stated thnt he did not knnv where QQBL lived, but believed it was ' S
at one of the University dormitories, the temporary wooden wones. "
JAMES DRISCOLL, Office of Dnnidcninl Hall, Cornell
University, advised that PERT.pnid rent on Room 101, Lyon Hall, ' '
from July 23, ]9h7 bu SupbPmbOr 15, l9h7. The records reflected . _ 'that a $5.00 room deposit was refunded-him on August 29, 19b7, ' !'
_ indicating that he may have left on this date. The files further
reflect that he was granted a room on the campus on the recom-
mendation of Professor WILLIAM SEARS.n
n
In-regard to PERL, he subject stated that he never knew APERL by the name of w1LL1A§_1uTTzRPERL. //,/ _
On July 21, 1950, Special Agent JOHN D 923§H0NEY located '
a receipt in the house of the subject from Mr. w 92MUTTERPERL,-1516
East 120 Street, Cleveland, Ohio, dated March 2%, 1950 on the billhea '- ,
of the Tatay Music Shop, 1&7 west h6th Street, New York City, for n '
Spanish-guitar and accoutrements in the sum of $75.60 marked paid.
Also located at the hone of the subject in a red folder
marked "ALFRED's Papers" by Special Agent JOHN D. MAHONEY on July 21,
1950, was the name Mr. W. MUTTERPERL, 1516 E. 120 St. Cleveland,
Ohio, hich was written in pencil on the beck of a withholding
receipt addressee to the subject at 65 Morton Street, New York City
for the year l9hh. ' »
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During the course of this first interview on July 19, 1950, SARANT
was asked if he was acquainted with or if he knew JULIUS ROSENBERG. He ad P
vised that he did know JULIUS ROSENBERG and gave the following information ,
relative to what he believed might have been their first meeting. SARANT ~
became acquainted with JOEL BAZR when they both were employed at the United
States Army Signal Corps Laboratory, Fort Monmouth, New Jersey information
concerning JOEL BARR has been set forth above!. Ee and BARR became very close
friends. One day BARR asked bin if he would donate blood for the sick father
of a friend. SAEAHT agreed to do this, and he stated that he is pretty cer- -
tain that this friend of BARR was JULlUS ROSEEBERG and that he net him while
he was giving this blood donaticn. SARLNT then added that it is possible that
ho could have met him before since BARR and ROSEHBEEG were former classmates
at City College of New York. Le was very vague as to other meetings with
ROSENBERG and could not recall the dates, places, or circumstances, advising '
that they could have taken place in restaurants or at union meetings. Ho
recalled visiting tho ROSENBERG apartment on one occasion but could not fur-'
nish the address of this apartment. Ho believed that ho recalled accompanying
JOEL BARR to ROSENBEEG'S to attend some political meeting. H0 denied that it
was a Communist Party meeting or that it had anything to do with cxpionago.
He could not recall who else was present or what took place at the-meeting.
he ever assisted ROSENBERG
Ho positively denied this.
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or his wife and that he had definitely had no contact with the ROSENBERGS since j A
moving from New York City to Ithaca in l9b6. He added that he did not believe "A
that his wife ever knew the ROSEHBERGS. H - e »
During the course of the search of subject's residence on the evening ~
of July 19 end the morning of July 20, 1950 after the completion of the first ' -
interview, Special Agent PAUL B. BIBLER found a Bates Telephone List Finder '
p0pup address book! in the middle drawer of the desk in the main bedroom. 1 I
The following appears as the last entry under the R's - "ROSENBERG, JULIUS " ,
and ETHEL, 10 Monroe Street, New York 2". when interviewed concerning this I
item, on July 20, 1950, SARANT could offer no reasonable explanation as to ' or
why this entry should be there. He advised that the entry was in his hend -'I-
writing and that he felt sure that the entry had been made while he was still " ti
residing in New York City, offering as an explanation of its being there, the i
fact that it might have been in connection with union business. The entry
directly preceding this entry is as follows - "CfihOISTLCHER,,2l7 Linden - .
Ith jljbl". SARANT was asked the reason this entry should precede the ROSBN-'
BERG entry, based on his former statement that he had had no contact with the
BOSEHBERGS since moving to Ithaca in l9#6. He stated that perhaps his wife
had wanted to send the ROSENBERGS a Christmas card. He then changed his former _
statement to the effect that his '2-l'.'LfQ waslnot acquainted with the sossz-mnsos. Y
He stated that he definitely recelled that his wife had met the ROSENBERGS '
while they were living in New York City, that he remembered a conversation
between ETHEL ROSENBERG and his wife, LOUISE, concerning children. .He didnot knew when or where this conversation too§;;l?ee,_ _ ;, _. *<_ -. » ,. 92 -i, . _ . . s, '3 . . , .. . ,0...» ¢,.
SARAH? was then questioned concerning the identity of C. ROISTACHERand where he met this person. He first stated that he met R0é§:g§ER after _
coming to Ithaca. He then stated that ho had heard of him, C-T n0ISTACHER,
through B$EZX S5EDER§ when he was living in New York City and had possibly ,
recorded his name at that tine. SABANT'S statement as to when he met ROISTACHEB
was changed after he was asked why if he met ROISTACHER nftcr coming_te Ithaca,
his name should precede ROSENBERG in his index. He first offered en explanation
that he often skipped spaces in the index and later filled these spaces in. :.-N,
Howeverg after examining the listings on the various pages in the list finder' -
and noting no instenccs of such skipping practices, he offered the possibility r. ' ~
that he knew of ROISTACHER before moving to Ithnca,_ It is to be_noted that in', ~
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the first interview, SARART advised that he did not know the address of_JULIQ§.
ROSENBEEG. '
SL3ANT_wns questioned further in this second interview concerning
his knowledge of and relationship with ROSESBERG. He stated that he knew%ROSEN13l.RG by his nicknam "JULIE", that to the "best of his recollection he
had met him eight to ten times and his wife, ETHEL, four to eight times. He
did not recall the nature of any of these neetings with ETHEL ROSENBERG. Ho
added that he actually know JULIUS EOSENBTHG only as a casual acquaintance.-
Hc then stated that perhaps he first met him at a union meeting and not as ,
stated previously when he donated.bleed to his father. SARANT advised that
he and ROSENBERG were both members of the Federation of Architects, Engineers
Chemists, and Technicians, CIO, and that he distinctly recalled seeing him
at meetings of this union. He also advised that he recalled meeting RO£EN '
BERG in restnurdnts, he described these as casual meetings and could not
remember any of the details. He could furnish no additional information
concerning his one visit to the ROSENBERG apartment. - '
SARANT was questioned further concerning his meeting with ROSENBERG
when ROSENBERG "propositioned" him. He stated that he had no ides of the
exact date but that this meeting-nest probably took place sometime between
January, 1942, and January, l9h5, As he recalled it, he and ROSEEBEEG had
met at a union meeting of the Federation of Architects, Engineers, Chemists,
and Technicians earlier in the evening, then adding that perhaps they had
just happened to have a chance meeting at some restaurant. They were alone
and were walking someplace in ew York City's lower Best Side SARANT later
stated that he is not sure whether it was on the East Side or not!. SAEANT
stated that he definitely remembers walking slowly and that it was not raining
He believed that, as they were walking alone, they were discussing political
issues, but he does not recall what political issues, adding that he did not
know ROSENBERG as n Communist Party member.' He stated that he does not row
member any more of the circumstances surrounding this meeting but that he
received the impression that ROSENBERG was sounding him out politically for
the purpose of getting information and repented "but I did not bite". He
was questioned at length concerning further details of this meeting as to _
just what was said and as to what proposition ROSENBERG made. He advised Q
that he could recall nothing further. sHe definitely stated that BOSENBERG .
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did not at this time or any other time ask him for any information for trans-1.
mittal to Russia. ~ r~
. In the July 21, 1950 interview, SA£AiT advised that he once recalled.
BTHEL ROSENBERG telling him that she liked folk songs. He didn't remember ' 3
whore they were when she said this. He also ricnllcd that she told him shc
would like to try to sing and that she had n very shrill voice, SARANT also ~_
stated that he never particularly liked ETHEL ROSENBERG, that there was some- h
thing about her that was displeesing to him. I
In the July 25, 1950 interview, SAIAKT stated that he remembered
that the ROSBEEEEGS had two children, but that to the best of his knowledge
he never sew them, although it could have been possible that he saw one of
then in his one visit to the ROSEKBERG apartment. Ho stated that he believed '_
the information regarding the children came from JOEL BARR. He advised that
he never recalled seeing EHTEL ROSENBERG in a pregnant condition. - '
' During these interviews with SAEAHT, he readily identified photographs
of JULIUS ROSENBERG. He positively denied that ROSE3ERG was ever in the I I
apartment at 65 Morton Street to his knowledge. He positively denied over _'
engaging in espionage work for Rosenberg. He positively denied any contact
whatsoever with ROSENBERG since moving to Ithaca in 19h5. -
It will be noted that SARABT, in those interviews, was very vague
and evasive in his answers to nest questions. He could not recall any exact
or closely approximate dates of any meetings with RGSEXBEQG or any specific
or even general details of these meetings. ~
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The following information was obtained from ALFRED SLR&NT con-
cerning VIVIAN GLRSSMAN on July 20, 1950. ' ;
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On the evening of July 19, 1950 and the morning of July 20,
1950 a search of subject SAELNT's home at Cayuga Heights Road, Ithaca, I
New York, was conducted by authority of a Waiver of Search signed by *
SARANT on July 19, 1950. < '
"A box of pictures of canoe trips was located at the home of ,
the subject by Special Agent JOHN D. MAHONEY. Some of these photos were
of a women, the subject, and JOEL_BARR. The subject stated these were
taken on a canoe trip in the Fulton chain of lakes in New York State in ,
195 . He statea that the woman's name was VIVIAN but claimed he did "
not know her last name and that she was a friend of JOEL BARR. He h
denied knowing anything about her background despite the fact that she
was on the canoe trip with them for two weeks,
Photographs of a canoe trip in 19a; included VIVIAN, his wife
LOUISE JACQUELINE ROSS, JOEL BARR and himself. He continugd to dgny
that he knew anything about VIVIAN or her background. . I
" On July 21, 1950, ALFRED SARANT furnished the following 13- .
formation regarding VIVIAN GLASSMAH. In discussing the canoe trips
with SARANT on this date he stated that she was on the second canoe y
trip with him and JOEL BARR in l9hh and that she was also on the canoe
trip with BARR, subject's wife and himself in l9h5. He again stated
that he did not know her last name or anything about her. He stated .
that his wife, LOUISE, might know her name, as
canoe trip with them. He recalled that VIVIAN
at his apartment at 65 Morton Street, New York
not recall how often or'any of the detailsshe was on the l9h5
attended the musicales
City. He said he could
He was-shown photographs of VIVIAN GIASSMAN that were obtained
from SARANT's home on July 20, 1950, and he identified her; but con-
-.tinued to state that he did not know her last name.
~ On-July 22, 1950, ALFRED SARANT»volunteere the information
that after discussing the receipt of rent payments for the 65 Morton
Street apartment in New York City, with his wife, that he now recollected
4 that he did receive a money order from VIVIAN GL&SSMLN for the apartment,
Information concerning the 65 Morton Street apartment, New York City, -
is being set out elsewhere in this report.! He stated that,his wife,
recalled that VIVIAN's last name was GLASSMAN, but he denied knowing
anything else concerning her. _
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AI. 65-1661+ _ f
_ A Bates List Finder was located in the home of the subject
by Special Agent PAUL R. BIBLER in a search conducted on the evening _
of July 19, 1950 and the morning of July 20, 1950 by authority of a
Waiver of Search signed by the subject on July 19, 1950. In this
Bates List Finder was the name GLASSMAN, 3&3 East 8th St., N. Y. 9,
AL-H8658, office DI 205hO. Subject, on July 22, 1950, stated this
individual was identical with VIVIAN GLASSMAN. I
On July 2h, 1950, the subject stated that the only persons
who forwarded money to him for payment of the rent at 65 Morton Street
apartment, New York City, after he left there were JOEL BARR, WILLIAM
PERL and VIVIAN GIASSMAN. He stated that he could have received the
lump sum cash payment for five or six months from any of these threepersons. I '
Concerning his meeting GLASSMAN, the subject stated on
July 25, 1950 that she was on the second canoe trip in l9hh and that
BARR must have known her several months prior to the canoe trip and
that he must have met her about the time of the canoe trip. He was .
uncertain. ' -
-~ Subject stated that he had a vague recollection of BARR
telling about meeting her at some summer resort. He denied that he _
knew where she worked but stated he vaguely remembered her being a
student and studying for social work. He stated that he recalled she
accompanied them on a lot of hiking trips. To the best of his knowledge
she was not a member of the Communist Party and never knew of her
working at the United States Signal Corps. He recalled that she lived
on the east side of New York City downtown, and believed it was on _
East 8th Street. It was pointed out to him that her address was .
-listed in the Bates List Finder as 3&3 East 8th Street. He believed
that this was her address. He stated that as far as he could recall '
he was at her home only once and that GLASSHAN's mother and_a sister
or two lived with her. He could not remember anything about the
apartment or what floor it was on. In regard to his visit to .
GIASSMAN's apartment, he was quite sure he was single at the time and
as he recalled her family was there. SARANT, as he recalled, went there
to see VIVIAN GLASSMLN because he was upset about a girl named GILDYS,4<hEYER,?whom he thought he was in love with and who at that time was
giving him the "cold shoulder". This would probably have been some-
time between October l, 19b3, which is the date he moved to 65 Morton
Street, New York City, and July 6, 19b5, the date he was married.! .-»
He could not explain why he should have gone to see VIVIAN GLASSMAN
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. about this. He hover knew of GLASSMAN living on East 7th Street, or '4
at 112 East 7th Street, New York City, or at any other address. - ,» -
He stated that he never knew that JOEL BARR was married to_ ,
GLASSMAN or that they lived together. He never knew of GLLSSMAN _ @
having a Leica camera. , ' < . .. 5
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. He stated that GLASSMNN never came to Ithaca, New York, , _y
to see either him or his wife. .He was not sure that he had not '
seen GLASSMAN in New York City since he had moved to Ithaca, New
York. .
The subject stated that he was in New York City in November, 92
l9h6 to attend e concert given by BETY SANDERS at Times Hell on East =
h3rd Street, New York. He stated he wcnt.to the rnncerh nhove and he
might have seen GLLSSMAN at that time. _ v 92. 1
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SARANT LABORATORIES .
_-_-_-__.--_.------i--- _ <
The following information was obtained from AIJRED S92RANT concerning
SARQNT Laboratories on July 22, 1950. . A
He denied that he could remember where it was located but stated, ;
as he recalled, it was west of 65 Morton Street, New York City, on a cross
street, and was within ten or fifteen minutes walking distance of 65 Morton ;
Street, New York City. BiBR and he had the idea of renting a shop to do Y"-
some work in and to use as a hobby shop. When questioned concerning this,
he advised that they never used it to attempt to get Government contracts'*{
or to get any business. He denied that it was used as a cover company for A
espionage work. He stated that they used it as a hobby shop. He could not '
recall when they rented the shop but remembered it was on the first floor, ~
and that he believed they had this shop between the time he was married, -
-6-b5! and the time he left New York City 9-L6! for Ithaca, New York. He., .
stated that he and BARR shared the expenses equally. do recalled that they .
bought a lathe for about one hundred sixty dollars which was in the shop, and
=that they had a bench with steel legs and a wooden top. He could not recall ~
where they bought the lathe or bench. -He stated that he was ouite sure he
paid-for part of the lathe. As far as he could recall, they rented the shop -
on a month to month basis, and they had it only for about four or five months
prior to the time he left for Ithaca, New York. He was quite sure that they
had no telephone at the oarant Laboratories. SARANT advised that they had
printed stationery, and that BARR had had this printed at his fathers_or ~
-brother's place of business, address unknown. 'He stated that both his father
and brother were printers. _
In connection with the name,*§;rant Laboratories, Incorporated,
the subject was questioned as to why they needed a name if it was only*§" '
hobby shop. He could furnish or give no reasonable explanation except theta,
they wanted to have a name. _ -
l » Likewise, he could give no explanation as to why they needed stationery
He stated that BARR thought of this idea. - l
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'_ He denied trying to obtain Government or other contracts.
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I In regard to the name, Sarant Laboratories, Incorporated, subject ~
stated that B4RR apparently just let subject's name appear on the letterhead _.- ?e - .because he was a good fellow. He remembered the name, Saront Laboratories, * ,Gk -
appeared in the window in gold letters. They bought the letters at a hardware §f"'r
some place. _ . ., ,,:¢'_,; H. "1
The subject stated that the stationery letterhead92co tained his W " 1"name, and possibly BARR's, and his wife's maiden name, L.,J§{§g$S. When
questioned about why his wife's name appeared on the letterhead, he recalled;@q
that they wanted a third name on the letterhead, but could give no roason_ .1 1
why. A '_ -' 4 4 - ' »;
' He denied that the Sarant Laboratories was ever incorporated or that ;
they did any business. SAHANT stated that he used to go there on Sundays and _
evenings occasionally but that it did not lest long. Ho remembered working *>
a little with the lathe and remembered B&RR repairing a radio. He stated that, -
he did not know what happened to this laboratory after he left, and he denied '
knowing whether JOEL BARR operated it after he left. He strted he did not ~
sign any papers turning it over to anyone else. He stated that BARR might
have sold it and assumes that BARR paid him for his share but could not
remember. Ho thought he r called that BARR told him it was going to be taken -
over by some radio repairman. _ ° '
. - _ ~ ~_
On July 25, 1950, the subject was asked whether the address of_ " Q
227 West llth Street, Now York City, was the address of the Sarant Laboratories, ,
and he stated that it was. -
' Subject, upon being questioned as to whether he ever visited that ' .~
address after he come to Ithaca, New York in September, 19b6, stated that there
was a vory remote possibility that he might hive, but he could not remember it. .
He had no recollection of ever visiting JOEL BQRR at that address.
_ He dcniod operating the Snrant Laboratories after he came to Ithaca,
New York and stated that he would have remembered this. SARANT stated that
actually, he had very little to do with the Sarant Laboratories and that JOEL.
BARR never told him what he used it for, and as far rs he knows, BARR used . ,T
the shop as a hobby shop. He stated that BARR found the space at 227 host
llth Street, New York City, and rented it, and that BQRR put the gold letters y
-in the window in the name, Sarant Lvborntorias. Ho stited that he now recalls_ ~
that on one occnsion,'h¢ walked by the hobby shop and sow the name, Sarant 2;
.Laborntories in gold leaf in the window, and JOEL BARR told himjthat he BAHR!_ i
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.hed put the name in the window. _ .
SARANT stated that he does not recall that he or BJHR paid the rent _ »
by check, but that it was always paid with cash, and he could not recall the - ~y
amount of the rent. _SJRANT denied that he opened a checking account in the _ .§
name of the oarant Laboratories, and if there were One, it was opened without
his knowledge or consent. , .»
A copy of the letterhead of the Sarant Laboratories it should be ;
noted that the letterhead did not contain the word incorporated! was obtained '
irm SARANT. This letterhead contained the following information:
SARANT LABORATORIES
227 West llth Street
Now York h, Haw York l " '
A. E2'SAR1NT 2 A Electron Beam Recording
L. J. ROSS Optical Communication =
Projection in Depth
HESE1RCH IN APPLIED SCIENCE
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aye: mm HELENE ELITCHEE} if 44
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"7-21-50' '
Ithaca, N.Y.
"I am Alfred Sarant and I give this statement freely and voluntarily
to Peter F. Maxson and John D. Mahoney knowing them to be Special Agents of.,.. '1... ..the Federal Bureau of Ihvestigation. No threats or promises have been madehii
to me to induce me to give this statement. I have been advised of my rights, ;
that I do not need to make a statement and any statement I make can be used '
in a court of law against me. I know I em entitled to engage an attorney. 92.--. L
"On this date I have been shown a photo of a man identified to me
as Max Elitcher, with a number 36068 on the photo. I have never seen this
man, I do not recognize the picture nor have I heard the name. I have signed
the back of this photo. I have been shown a woman identified to me as_§eleng
Steinberg Elitcher. I am positive I have never seen her, I have never heeid_
the name Helene Elitcner. I have signed my name on the reverse side of the
photo. These two individuals have never been in my apartment while I was~
there. I was never with them anywhere. _ Y, .H;
"I have read this onepege statement, I understand it, ad.it is i 92
true. A
_ /S/ Alfred Serent .
' . v 7-21-50
"John D. Mahoney, Sp. Agt - FBI
Peter F. Maxson, S.A., F.B.I." ~ ' _ »_
The searches of subjectis residence failed to locate any material ~_
identifiable with the Elitchers. ' .
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gqonwom AND HELEIF s0BELL
'"722~5O .
Ithsca, N.Y. 6:bO
"I am Alfred Sarant and I give this statement freel and I
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stptemont and I know I d t h .. . 0 no ave to make a statement. I know nd have be
advised that any statement I make can be used in w I. 3 . . court of law against me.
I know and have been advised that I am entitled to consult and engago.an at
torney.A
To the best of my knowludgo and recollection I do not know and
have never met Morton Sobcll or hfn "f* -» * Ia ml c Halon Sobell any place or through
anyone. To the best of my knowledge and rccollzction I n' n
/S/ Alfred Sarant ~ V
"I have road this one page, I understand it sud it is true.
/S/ Alfred Sarant
@ itnesses I '
John D. Mahoney, Sp. Agent - FBI
Peter F. Maxson, SA; FBI"
The searches of subject's residcnce failed to locate any material
identifiable with the Sobolls. -
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0 etor F. Mnxson and John D. ahoney_knowing them to be Special Agents of
"the FBI. No threats or promises h. ~ bc ' E1
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the name of Sobell. '
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Subject denied cvor knowing or hearing of the $IDOBD?ICH$. He stated
that such a last name would certainly have stood. out in his mind. _ ~ 4
The sovrches of subject's rosidonca failed to locate any materia1_- ;§*}»
identifiable with the SIDGROVICHS. .
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_ Subject positively denied ever knowing either DAVID or BUQ §§¥BH: '
.GLASS, and he failed to identify photographs of the GEEENGLASSES as persons 2
ever known by him. He stated that the only time he ever heard of DAVID GREEN; 92"
GLASS was in connection with his recent arrest. "_ - ¢ »
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A " The searchcs of subject's residence failed to locate any material *tl:;"7
- identifiable with GREEHGLASS. . "
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Subject positively denied ovor knowing GOLD and stated that tho I
only time he over heard of him was in connection with the newspaper publicity
attendant with his arrest; Ho failed to identify a photograph of GOLD as a_,
person ever known to him. '.~ < . I ,v
The soarchos of subject's residence failed to locate any materia1_1identifiable with GOLD. ~ ' _§~ ' ,,
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AL 65-1661» . PRB:A'lN. . '. . .
II!?fEBVIE?f§-.YZITH_*?3S.- . ' he l
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LOUISE JACQUELINE snmmr was interviewed on July 21, 22, 26 and: ,2 ,
23, 1950, by Special Agents PETER G. ROTH and PAUL R. BIBLER. Throughout ,
these interviews, she stated that she had no knowledge of the activities .
of JULIUS ROSENBERG and did not believe that her husband had assisted ~ ~ ; _
ROSENBERG in any espionage activity. She made the statement her husband .;: J71
' had told her that there was nothing to worry about and that it would only - ~,[*
be a matter of time until the FBI Agents were convinced that he had not 5 f ' ~5~
/engaged in espionage. She further stated that her father, VICTOR K. D,._f
ROSS, an attorney at Ithaca, New York, had discussed the matter with her .'..~
and had told her to answer questions fully. However, her expressed '
' recollection of the events prior to her departure from New York in l9h6 ~'
was very incomplete in many instances. Information obtained during these
interviews appears below under the heading of the individual, location .
or activity to which it pertains. .. Q R
. _ ~ 1
JULIUS ROSENBERQ: ' - ~ g
Mrs. SARANT stated that she recalled meeting JULIUS ROSENBERG
on one occasion. She stated that she was unable to fix the date of this 1
occasion, but that it necessarily must have been prior to her departure ,¢
from New York City in September, l9hG. She stated that she did not know ' ~
where the meeting took place, but believed it may have been in a restaurant..»7
She recalled that her husband, ALFRED SARANT, and Mrs. JULIUS ROSENBERG '», ,
were present. She discussed children with Mrs. ROSENBERG. She stated it-__
was her recollection that Mrs. ROSENBERG had one child at that time, X 5
who was ill. She advised she was unable to furnish a description of _-1; ' 7 ETHEL ROSENBERG, other than that she was short, rather heavy and had J N " "Y
dark hair. She stated her recollection of JULIUS ROSENBERG was that he 1
was pleasant and wore_glasses. She identified a picture of JULIUS , _ROSENBERG. She was not shown a photograph of ETHEL ROSENBERG. - , * 192
She stated she did not recall if anyone else was present at
this meeting and did not recall that any particular topic was discussed
other than the topic of children. when she was asked why JULIUS ROSENBERG's
address appeared in a Bates List Finder found in a drawer in a desk in ' W . ~her bedroom, she stated that she was unable to explain. She stated thati , - .
. both she and her husband used this Bates List Finder and used_it more P ;prior to leaving New York than since. She denied any knowledge of ';; . |;; _
V ROSSNBERG's espionage activities and denied that she had assisted-him I 3 "
in any way and denied that she had any reason to believe that her husbamd;;§
had assisted ROSENBERG. She emphatically denied that ROSENBERG had evert 1} - "
dsited them in Ithaca, New York, or that they had received any communion-¢¢., _;I
tion from him. - i , _ " "» -~*
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JOEL BARR: " "~ ~~ i-. yv '» . ..-1* .1 -1,
Mrs. SARAHT advised that her acquaintance with JOELcBLRB~ l;~ J ;*¢ .¢ 1'-'datéi from about the same time as her acquaintance with ALFRED SARANT, . -
whom she met early in l9h5. She advised that she sew JOEL BARR often ;,,, _
from early l9h5 until September, l9H6; that he was in their apartment '* @*'9
at 65 Morton Street on many occasions, both alone and _
and that she and her husband eccompuhied JOEL BARR and VIVIAH_GL@S$M4§ .5 *,'
on a canoe trip in theihdironecks in the Fall or late Summer of l9h5.~ ~ '1at social gatherings, 1; pl
i
She ientifiei Q photogreeh of JOEL BARR. 4
. _4'tShe stated she did not know BARR's place of employment while , "
she knew him in New York, but knew that he was an engineer by professionvi
She did not know his exact sidress, although she believed that he lived . I
with his mother and sister, IRIS. She advised that JOEL BARR and her ~' '¥e¢
husband, ALFRED SARLNT, were very good friends, and that they had s common ~j I
interest in music, although she stated she did not know if_§§RR.played any ~.
type of musical instrument. " - *' 3 ~ i'}'I_-..+"'l.i.,S . ~ ff,"4
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4
She stetei it was quite probable that JOEL 8&9? was or had been" t
n member of the Communist Party,-since she herself had been a Party member f '
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e92'> ' in 19h! and 19%;, and that sec oclicvcO she riscusrcd issues, such as == _ -
iscriminetion, Ircely vitl HARP one did not flat him in conflict with _ ~
her She stated, however, she had no hnoaleuge as to
ectuelly was e member of the Greenwich Village Branch
Party or if he an her husband had been members of th sate branch of _'
the Communist Party. She steted that she was a member of the Greenwich. l '
Village Branch for a short time, but did not know the names of other ~>.
members. She elvised she eii not know if EAHR was acquainted with JUQ;Q,- ~
ROSENBERG, but was quite certain that she had never had any reason to 1 , ~
believe that BARR was working for or with ROSENBERG on any espionage . activities. - - ' v . ' whether or not he A
of the Communist .
She stetei she did not recall if her hushani hoe ever developed
any photographs for JOEL BARR and that while she knew BARR had e cemere,f
she did not know what type of camera he had. Mrs. SARAH? uivised she» -;'
believes that BARR visitei her and her husband at Ithaca, New York, '" I '
She stated she is unable to fix the-Gate of this visit, enl does not ,
recall that there was any particular reason for the visit. She stete she-L, . Q
aia recall that JOEL 3ARRs visit to Ithaca must have been'nfter Dccembcr;.3t " -
l9U§, because she is certain them he saw her son, JEREMY, who was born '~ ' .in December, 19h6. ' _ . 4 - - ~ ~ ' H '~ »f '- ¬-}92-A
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Europe sometime in l9h8. She stated that she did not'know-exactly
where he is in Europe, but believes she heard that he was in Sweden,
that BARR telephoned them in Ithaca and told them he was going to 4
cerning this telephone call. - » 7*
BARR and WILLIAM PERL were acquainted, and that she is quite certain
that JOEL BARR and VIVIAN GIASSMAN are well acquainted, since they
were intimate friends prior to l9h5 and saw each other to some extent
. . '
p was Russian and that she recalled that at one time JOEL BARR and her
recall nothing concerning BARR's attitude toward the Russian govern-
5*?/92R1?'3N,'L,§§_e1¬°R'¥9!lsTR¥3ET1e§"5" YORK °I'1Y= - ' D ~-
-~ Mrs. smnwr stated that when she first met ALFRED SARANT, early"
in 19b5, he resided in an apartment on the sixth floor of 65 Morton _j
.Street, New York City, and she resided at 60 Morton Street. After r *~
they were married in July, 19b5, she moved to his apartment at 65 ~*§
Morton Street. They remained in this apartment until September l3,"
l9h6. She advised she recalled clearly that they left the apartment
' on September 13, l9h6 and that they were driven to her parents home,
n22 Eddy Street, Ithaca, New York, by Emcnymrrsom, who is xurnmSARANT's sister. She stated that during thetime she resided at this
apartment, it was furnished as follows: ' T1
In the living room there was a couch, a record cabinet, one
large chair, soe small tables, a maple chair, a maple coffee table,§
_which later was broken, a rug, and one lamp. She advised all of this
furniture was moved to Ithaca with the.exception of the coffee table '
and possibly the floor lamp. I
_ In the kitchen was a table, two chairs, refrigerator and3¥»Q' A
_ studying music. She stated she had a rather indefinite recollection l;.;¬3;%1;. . , -1 ~ ' -,--.,92-<1 /.~__. .,,_ . ,,
Europe. She said she was unable to remember any further details con-,
after 191+5. » , ~ 1 _ < "5
She advised she understood that one of JOEL BARR's parental
husband, ALFRED SARANT, studied Russian together, but that she could~~
ment, which would indicate to her that he would be engaged in espionage
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~ w r92ff.; " She advised it is her understanding that JOEL BARR went to ,§ ~h»¥+»' '
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, " She stated the bedroom contained one bed and two small » '?;@;n. jfw
chests. She advised that when they moved to Ithaca, they left only ' :5 v
the ~box springs from the bed, since it was not in good conditiong; .,-o~;
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. . "With regard to the occupancy of the apartment after she . j
_ moved to Ithaca, she stated that she was aware of the fact that they ,4; ;,
- had been paying the rent on this apartment until recently, although
she did not know the exact date was January, 1950. She stated she- ,_ "1did not recall definitely what arrangements were made at the time ' ; . van! 1.'s
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they left the apartment, but believed there was some thought they -/ '~§h"' 7 '
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to be occupied by friends while they were gone. She stated she con-
sidered this arrangement quite natural, since apartments were hard to;lpmight return to the apartment sometime in the future and that it was 1 d
rent on this apartment all came from wILLIAM,PERL, with the exception yf
of one money order which was received within the first year after they '_.qM
vacated the apartment, from VIVIAN_GlASSMAN. She advised that although-W.f
she believed WILLIAM PERL sent money orders for payment of the rent ongf -
the apartment, for nearly four years after they left, she did not '; '
-clearly recall if they gave him the key at the time they left the -Z;_~
apartment. She further stated she had never asked anyone who was ;%;
using the apartment in their absence, since it was a matter of no V.
concern to her. . , ~.r "£1 .*92
3
She advised that she had not visited the apartment at 65 S?»
Morton Street since September 13, l9h6. She stated she was unable to .¢Y'> '1
» explain why VIVIAN GLASSMAH would have paid one month's rent on the
apartment, since it was her recollection that VIVIAN GLASSMAN lived
with her mother in New York City. She stated that if this apartment f
was used for any illegal purpose after September 13, l9h6, it was; *1
iwithout her knowledge and_her husband's knowledge; 5-92
She further said she did not recall who advised them to dis- ft ~ontinue paying the rent on this apartment. She stated that as far as Er
she knew, no one had ever paid them a lump sum for several months ¢'_ 1
rent ~n the apartment.' ' " I
_ She stated that she did not recall exactly when BILL_PERLQ? t
_started to occupy the apartment and when she was shown letters from A....¢_
v PERL addressed to Mr. and Mrs. ALFRED SARLNT reflecting that PERL was "~ ~*..*|
,»1:'in the apartment as early as September, 1956, and further reflecting #§§3;;
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, r1?that PERL had sent them a bill of 5.-11¢ for certain items of furniture, "~
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. ,;§§;Q-get in New York City at that time and she felt she and ALFRED were .{§; fjer =
more than glad to continue to pay the rent as long as someone else f,§yf;i;;§g§¢> F . _.' J1-_ h__
..wanted to use the apartment. She stated that to the best of her ="*rH%;P;g' 55.n-
recollection the money orders which they received in payment of the§ 3'I§*7"@i.;,.. .~92l
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1 ."1 .._ she stated she had no recollection concerning these lettersi. A J s§2{:§§$}¥f33*§?i;. , ' - - . 1_¢rw?ie£*r
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AL65-1661; c i . "1 "
.1-._-_--i___-Q .. 2.5. Vu
~ Mrs. SARANT stated that she net WILLIAM PERL during her residence
at 65 Morton Street, New York City. She did not know him by the name of '
WILLIAM MUTTERPERL. She advised her recollection of PERL was that he was ,: 1
an infrequent visitor and appeared to be just arriving from or going
someplace. She stated she did not know where his parents lived or~ 1% 31$.WILLIAM PERL: - - .- r . _ .
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what his occupation was. She stated that she believed he was undoubted1y_ , t
acquainted with JOEL BARR, but had no reason to believe that he was * ~s'.92! 92I acquainted with JULIUS ROSENBERG. '
She identified a photograph of WILLIAM PERL. < " .
v'1
Mrs. SARANT advised that she did not know what brought WILLIAM ._ 1
PERL and her husband together, as she did not recall that PERL was
particularly interested in music as were most of the people whom they
entertained in their apartment. She stated that she had no reason to
believe that WILLIAM PERL was e guitar player and had no knowledge con
cerning the bill er sale which was found among her husband's effects.
reflecting that WILLIAM PERL had purchased a guitar and appurtenances
from the Tatay Music Store in New York City. .
y She stated that she was unacquainted with any girlfriend of
PERL's named HETTIISRVIDGE. She stated that PERL visited them once
in Ithaca, New York, during the time they resided at R22 Eddy Street."
She believed this was in l9h7 and that PERL was in Ithaca on some sort
of business and just dropped in to say hello to then. She stated she
does not know where PERL is at the present time, although she recalls
that some of the money orders they received from PERL came from Ohio,
either Cincinnati or Cleveland.
She stated she was never very well acquainted with WILLIAM
PERL and knew nothing concerning his activities and had no reason to
believe that he was ever engaged in furnishing information to JULIUS
ROSENBERG. _ ,
SARANT LABORATORIES:
Mrs. SARANT advised that about the time she was married, her
husband and JOEL BARR set up what they called the Sarant Laboratories,
which was located somewhere in Greenwich Village within easy walking
distance of 65 Morton Street. She said that it was either in the
basement er on the ground floor of n building anl had n big glass
window somewhat_like u store window. She stated she did not recall
the address. She advised that the space consistel of only one room
with the privilege of using a nearby restroom. In the room she ._'
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recalls s work bench with what she described as common tools, such as =f*J
. . ~ sq J
hammers, saws and chisels, a drill press and a piece of electrical _f,
equipment called an oscillograph.
this latter piece of equipment was
her
and
was merely a place for her husband and JOEL BARR to "putter". She jShe stated the reason she recalls
that JOEL BARR demonstrated it to -
one day and she remembers_watching the "wiggly line flashing back fl
forth across the screen. She advised that the Sarant Laboratories it
stated they all had a lot of fun drawing up the letterhead which cost . v
them nothing, since it was printed by JOEL BARRs father or brother, _5"1
who had a printing business, but that this labroatory brought in no
cash income as far as she knows, and the letterhead was not used. She
stated that her name, L. J. ROSS, was listed on the letterheard as a
more or less of a "little joke". _ y!
* She advised she did not know what her husband and JOEL BARR
intended to develop in this laboratory and does not believe they spent, '
~ very much time there. She further stated she did not recall what .
happened to the laboratory when they left New York City or if her ' -
husband was ever paid for his share of tho equipment in the laboratory. j
She stated that matters of money had never been of any concern
to her and her husband, and that they were not practical and systematic f_
about such things. . ' . f
she
and
she
some plaster"~ She stated that outside of herself, her husband and JOEL BARR,
recalled
this was
recalledonly one person who had ever visited the Sarant Laboratoriesa close friend of hers named JANEKEPARGQZEGICHINSON,'who-- -
as having once spent an afternoon in the laboratory doing
of paris modelling. She stated that this woman is interested
in sculpture. _ m_ A
VIVIAN GIASSMAN: r . _ ,
and
and
' did.
had
had
.and
SheMrs. SABANT readily identified a photograph of VIVIAN GLASSMAN
stated that this individual had once been JOEL BARR's "girlfriend"
had accompanied BARR and the SARANTS on a canoe trip in l9h5. She ;
stated that even though she had seen VIVIAN GLASSMAN quite often, she '
not consider her to be a particularly close friend, and that she
not seen her since she left New York in l9h6. She advised GLASSMAN
visited Ithaca on only one occasion to the best of her knowledge
this was in the fall of l9h5 at the conclusion of the canoe trip.
advised it was her recollection that JOEL BARR and VIVIAN GLASSMAN ~"
"broke up" sometime in l9h6. She stated she believed VIVIAN GLASSMAN'v~" ~ . 1!.;.T'
1 1 .xi r ~_. -_ .> ..» AI x £4
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AL 65-1661» _ . _ -';. __' ' ' *
- >* - ,"* 1; 1She stated she had no reason to believe that {lying §;4§$MgQ -pr 1 F '%§§ s
was acquainted with JULIUS ROSENBERG. - AK . M Q.K w ' _.- 1 2 ,
. _ Mrsl SARAHT said that VIVIAN GLnSSMAN was a social worker; but f p e
thatshe did not know by whom she was employed. _ _ ~ .f- 3 _
PHOTQGRAPXIIC E!§P_ER_I§IT;{Cl?§: S ' ' ___i a ,
_ '_ J
Mrs; SARANT stated that she had no particular photographic §§; k,
experience, although she had helped her husband develop films on I ~ » .
occasion. She stated at the time of their marriage, her husband had i 5
only one camera as far as she knew, which is the same "Bee Bee" camera ,_ , »;
which he has at the present time. She advised her husband had other = ' -c_f
photographic equipment while they lived in the apartment at 65 Morton ' 1;,
n 1:.92 Street, which she described as follows: _ é* V
The developer , chemicals and trays were kept in the kitchen. _ , ~";>
The enlarger was on a_shelf in the closet. » , ~'
There was a tripod for the camera. She did not recall where -
it was kept. 1 »
' She stated they had some floodlights which they first had on ~
stands similar to music stands, but which were later removed from the
_stands and clipped in various places about the apartment to be used" c
as regular lights. She advised that some of_the lights which are in M '
use in her home in Ithaca today are these same floodlights. She stated - K W q
she did not remember that her husband and JUEL BLRR spent any particular t .
amount of time developing pictures and does not recall them ever making f any document photographs. wi 1
' ' l r~ ~.
She stated she did not believe her husband had ever owned a _ 1
Lieca camera and further she probably would not recognize a Lieca camera . _ ,
if she saw one. < .1 ~
MAX ELITCHER:i
1
Mrs. SARLNT stated that she had never known anyone by this
name and stated that she did not recognize the photographsof MA§,and
HELENE ELITCHER which were exhibited to her. ' '
t .
MICK.-EL SIDOROVICH: f _-_...________.__-.-J.. 1".
Mrs. SLRANT advised that she did not know MICHAEL SIDOROVIQ§_ : W
or ANNE SIDOROVICH. A photograph of MICHAEL SIDQROVICH was shown to _ ess
her and she stated that she did not believe she had ever met this ~}i cs -92_; tc "db:imUvhmaL , - bf H' >-= 1.. 1 ; 1 c
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V Mrs. SARANT advised that she had never known or heard of
DAVID and RUTH GREENGL$SS and failed to identify photographs of these '
individuals. i -i . 0 _-1
gxxsaiz sou!: » 7 - I ~
. --i .
/rs. S"".B .NT stated that she did not mow HARRY GOLD, and when _ _' v.XI ¢ I ¢. 4
shown the photograph of him, stated she did not recall ever having seen .
it in the newspapers, and that she had never met this individual. A
MORTON SOBEQE: ' ~ - .
Mrs. SARANT stated that she does not know MORTON SOBELL.. She
was hot shown a photograph of MORTON SOBELL. -
FWLPS T<>¥@RI<cc@;1"r= » '
Mrs. SARAUT was asked to furnish information concerning_all
September 13, l9h6. She furnished them as follows: _ -
If ~- .1. zlbout March, 19I+7, she and .-*.I.1.=*12E':r> S1»3r.NT_. J1arm~1Y, an-. and
Mrs._VICTOR1ROSS drove to New York in the ROSS automobile. This was for
a visit with fri nds and relatives and she believed they stayed withMURI$L and ARTHQEQBOUDIN, 9 Gay Street, New Xork City.
2. She stated she had made one trip to New York City alone
sometime after the March, 19b7, trip, but she could not recall the
exact date. The purpose of this trip was to attend the marriage of
ELECTRA and JOEIFURYSON. She stated she probably stayed with the
BOUDINS at this time. . . .
v _ _-0 ._-
" i In February, 19>+9, she went to New York City alone to
attend the funeral of her grandfather BRANDT.
h. She and her husband and the children went to New York City
in the fall of l9h9, probably November, to attend a birthday party for
her husband's father, NONDA GEORGESARNT, who resides at Baldwin,Plow! York. ' ' ' -
. i
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of the visits which she and her husband had made to Net York City since ' - ¢§
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' 5. In March or April, 1950, Mrs. SAR$NT advised she went to ;e - 7
New York City alone, driving down with friends and returning by bus.
She stated that she stayed in New York for two days to consult a
physician and refused to discuss the nature of her business with him. ,
. 6. She advised she returned to New York in May of 1950 . 4 > ~
alone, driving down with Mr. ROSS and returning by bus. She stated
this was for the purpose of visiting the doctor mentioned above. f
7. She stated she and the children went to New York by I
plane on July ll, 1950, returning on July 21, 1950. She stayed with T .
ARTHUR and MURIEL BOUDIN. This was to be a vacation trip.
She advised her husband had made one trip to New York alone
in March of 1950. She stated this was with a JOSEPH INTERMAGGIO and
the purpose was to raise funds for the purchase of a building in
connection with her husband's business. She believed they stayed
approximately three or four days. She advised she did not recall
the exact date, but it could be obtained from the finm of Brewer
and Brown, a furnace repair firm in Ithaca, New York, who had to
come out and repair their heating system while her husband was gone.
BAChCROUND4
r
|
r _ . ,. _. -..
~ H Mrs. SARANT advised that she vns born April 2,_l923 at_Neq
York City. Her father's name was DAVIQFRUBEL; her mother's name was
MENA"BRANDT. Her father and mother weredivorced and her mother later ,
married VICTOR K. D. ROSS, who adopted her so that she was known 1 .
afterthat as LOUISELROSS. She advised that she is more comonly .
known by the nickname "PUSS".
/"2 ,» 1 ' .
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She resided in New York City until about 1935 and then moved
with the ROSSES to Norwich, New York, where they resided about one
year. They then moved to Ithaca, New York.
She stated that the last address which she remembered L
residing with her parents in New York City was at #2 Charlton Street.
' She attended high school in Ithaca, New York, and then went .
.to Fenn College, Cleveland, Ohio, for one your in l9hl. She has had
no further formal education.
. A 1
She advised that she has been employed at the following places: .
wA
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In the sumer of l9k2 for the Eclipse, a division of V
the Bendix Corporation at Elmira, New York. y
She was employed by the Soviet Government Purchasing -
Commission, Washington, D. 0., for a few months
in l9h3 or l9kh.
She worked for the Aero Spark Plug Company, New York
City for e few months, which she believed was in l9kh. [R
She was employed by the Premier Crystel_Laboretory, New 5York City, for a short time, probably in l9hh. 5 ~
She was also employed by "Look" magazine for a short
time in New York City in l9hk or l9h5.. f 1
p 1
"-
I u1
She stated that all of this employment at the various factories '1
was either in assembly or inspecting and that the other employment was '
- clerical. She advised she was unemployed in l9h5 when_sho met her 4 ' ~
husband, and that the other dates of employment are not clear to her _ _
since they were all of short duration and she visited back and forth '
between Ithaca and New York City very ?requently and was unemployed
for long periods of time. I. . '
_ , - 92 I, .¢ . ,J=-r-* She stated she spent a few mouths in Mexico City, whore she
"' visited JAMES and ELIZLBETE:§O5ENHOUSE. She believed this was in l9E2
or l9h3 and does not recall exactly how she become acquainted with these
people. She advised that she had lived during the time she was employed
by the Soviet Government Purchasing Comission at two different addresses '
neither of which she recalled. One of them was with a REBECCA end - '
WILLIAMQBEST, which she believes was on Tunelaw Road. The other one
was o rooming house operated by e Mrsf1hEUJL
In New York, she stated she had resided somewhere on West
Fourth Street in l9h2 or l9h3 with JANE SPARGO HUTCHINSON. She advised
that the only other address in New York where she had over lived for
any period of time prior to her marriage was at 60 Morton Street, whore
she had one room in an apartment which was rented by an EDWARD_
,/i;>-I,INDEI4£»N .
~ She stated that her real father, DAVID RUBEL, resides
somewhere in New York City or Long Island, but that she has seen
him on only one occasion since she was about three years old, andthnt was to have lunch with him about the time of her marriage in
l9F5.
She advised that her parents, VICTOR K. 0. and 1uIm4§oss, "
had been very patient with her and that the reason she had gone to
Mexico and had lived alone in New York on various occasiens'during
. ' - 92,~.
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DESCRIPTION:
Home
Date of Birth
Place of Birth
Height
Weight
Hair
Eyes
Complexion
Teeth
Nose ~
Buili
Scars and Marks
Peculiarities
Occupation
Husband
Children '_ r._ $ .- o 0 ~L
"3 =
- " a
L 65~l66l+ . _ '
which she was uncmployei and was suported by them was that she bed been *
unqblo to make up her mini as to her future and that it had been their_
thought that by allowing her to spend some time in New York City-by
herself she would be able to come to some decision. She statc that
was the reason she was living alone in New York and was unemployed at
the time she met her husband. . *
v l
1LOUISE JRCQUELINE RUBEL RQ§Sf§ER£NT,
also known as "Puss", "Puss§cat"
April 2, 1923 . .
New York City
5 I2 I _
llS ~
Dark brown '
Brown wears glasses continually;
suffers from astigmatism.!
Meclium
Good '
Rather long; pointed
Slight
None known
None known
Housewife
ALFRED SARANT '
JEREMY, born 12-u-1+6
STEPHEN xwormn, born June 15, 191+8
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XVI
EISOELLQQEOUS if _ _ :_~
. .
1 ' b ~. The following indivieuals, who are associated with Su jcct in
his painting business at Ithaca, New York, were interviewed. . -
F_§f_.f.I"~TK~ 1f:;'92ocz< .P
On Jul" 28, 1950, FRANK LA ROCK was interviewed at his paint
n - - . v .. -, J
store, 537 W. State street, Ithaca. He furnished the iollowing 1nfor- »
nation.
I
t He stated that he and SARANT are 50-SO partners in the business
INTERHAGGIO was considered in forming the business; however, INTERMAGGIO_
was unable to raise enough money and finally it was formed by SARANT and
LA ROCK. SLRANT takes no active part in the store. La ROCK said he does
all banking and bO0kkceping; bank account is at Tompkins County Trust
Company. He said that SARANT seldom receives telephone calls or mail at
the store.- Such calls or mail are apparently for business purposes. LA
RQCQ says his association with SABANT is completely for business reasons
and_he does not have any social contact with him.
LA ROCK stated to his knowledge SARANT has been out of Ithaca
only twice in the time he has known him, which is since January, 1950.
In April, SARANT and INTERMAGGIO went to New York City together, the
purpose of the trip being to raise money to start the business. SARLNT
contacted his father ior this purpose, LA ROCK believes. The other trip
out of Ithaca is his present vacation trip, though LA ROCK said he has v
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LA ROCK said SARANTs father-ir -lax: handled te 1.1 w<'>1.~:< ins i u ' '* ° ' IlEiHIIIiIIié§I||||l|V ett ng p the business, but as ROS» is the
~ in Ithaca, LA ROCK took the precaution of reviewing the proposals with a
Cornell professor who is an attorney and accountant. LA ROCK also men-
tioned that>WfGGINS, a law student at Cornell, who formerly worked as a
painter for SARAHT, is now working in ROSS office.
» LA ROCK was asked whether SARANT had ever broken a business
appointment for some unknown or unusual reason, and he advised that he
did not recall anything like that.
DOIIALD .J:.»'B'}n-n~rEr1.' '
. » Mr; DONALD J. BENNETT, 111+ Auburn Street, Ithaca, was inter-
viewed on July 28, 1950. Mr. BENNETT is a member of the Ithaca Fire
Department
ject. He
helped~the
West Shoreand since smnetime in l9h8 has been acquainted with the Sub-
first became acquainted with him because he had previously
Subjeet's fatherinllaw, VICTOR ROSS, build a house QB the
Road, Ithaca. After this house was completed, ROSS told
BENNETT that SARAH? needed a carpenter. After helping construct the
Subject's house, BENNETT began working for the Subject as a painter in
the spring of 19k8. He has worked for him intermittently since that
. date. <
BENNETT said that he recalled that
New York with JOSEPH INTERMAGGIO about March
days, ostensibly to borrow money to purchaseSARAHT had made a trip to
1950. He stayed several
the building which he owns
in partnership with CLARENCE LA ROCK in Ithaca. BENNETT further advised
that while he worked at the Subject's house he did not get acquainted
with any of the-Subject's Visitors, and did not know who; if anyone,
visited him from New York._-
BENNETT advised that his almost daily contact with SARANT had
not in any way given him the impression that
disloyal, or inclined toward Communism.
¢
. "'4"the Subject is in any way
J
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in:
JOSEPH INTERNAGGIO
¢ .
92INTERMAGGIO was interviewed on July 27, 1950, at the home of a
friend, A¢{lNKELSTEIH, RD, west Shore of Cayuga Lake. J," 1
1 - »
INTERHAGGIO said he has been a partner of VICTOR ROSS in the
Waterlox paint iranchise since May, l9k6, but is dissolving that agree-
ment. He first heard about Subject from ROSS about two years ago, and A
first met Subject about a year and a half ago. Since the spring of l9h9,
he has been giving Subject leads for painting contracts. Early this
year, Subject, FRANK LA ROCK and INTERMAGGIO planned to form a partner
ship in the paint business; however, the partnership was not completed.
INTERHAGGIO feels Subject did not live up to previous oral agreements
when it came time to form the partnership. The store was opened about
March 20, l95O. Shortly after, probably very early in April, INTERMAGGIO
made a trip to New York City with Subject. .-
' ' The purpose of the trip was for both to contact persons to
raise money for the business. They drove from Ithaca in Subject's car,
left Ithaca on e Saturday morning, arrived in Long Island that evening,
where Subject dropped IHTERNAGGIO at his family's home in Oceanside,
Long Island. On Sunday INTERMLGGIO spent the day visiting friends and
relatives in Long Island, and did not see or contact Subject. The date
of their trip can be fixed, if necessary, by determining the date of the
L.I.R.R. wreck which occurred the day they arrived.! On Monday, INTER-
MAGGIOs brotheriinilaw drove him to Rockville Center where AL picked
him up'end~the7 drove into New York City together. In New York City
IHTERMAGGIO called on s Mr. ANDERSON at the firm of ANDERSON and CLARK,
Reporters, and GEORGE'SCHwARTZ of Bule Bell Mfg. Company. He believes
AL met ANDERSON and may have met SCHWARTZ. They had planned to return
to Ithaca that day; however, AL had something he wantcd'to do unknown
to INTERMAGGIO! and they stayed over. INTBRMAGGIO stayed at his aunt's
home in Brooklyn that Monday night, met AL on Tuesday, and they returned
to Ithaca.
, On Monday evening, IHTERMAGGIO and SARANT had dinner at some
tavern which features spaghetti. They were supposed to be met by BEIQQW
SANDERS,there, but SANDERS did not appear. INTERMAGGIO said he docs not
0
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know anything also about Subjcct's activities in New York City. He
mentioned he has mot SANDERS at Subjoct's homc.A This restaurant is
not in the Village section. . '
T ~ Regarding other
. said that SARAl"J'i ma
_,¢%WORDEN'S PAINT STORE, but
" that he recalls Subject d
and children at sons time
I
-.1
92trips of Subject out of Ithaca, IHTERMAGGIO
1several trips to Auburn vita him to
knows nothing about any other trips
id make a trip to New York City with
in the last your or so,
- 65 - ycontact
except
his wife
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M, 55-15514 - PFM:VAF'" = "
XVII ", =
BACKGROUND AND DESCRIPTION OF ALFRED SARALA .
, Y I 1 . .
,5 . 1v.;£-5!.
, ' ~ Q. "-f The following information was furnished by Subject and is _ . 5 %.
augmented by additional information as reflected in the files of the _ '5
Civilian Personnel Records Branch, A&jutant Gcncral's Office, Dcyartmcnt 7
of the Army, St. Louis, Missouri; Cooper Union, How York City; and *'
_ wcstcrn Electric Company, Kcaray, New Jersey. X
A. 2121*}: 5A:m5c1111zEms;;;Pi
t
ALFRED SARAHT was born September 26, 1918 at New York City,
and is an American citizen. His parents, both born in Grcccc, are
naturalized citizens. ' '
B. §§LATIVES AND FAMILY I 192;
5 SLRAHT has idcntificd the following as his innciato relatives .
and family. .
3 J
K HONDA GEORGE SARAHT Father, born in Greece; naturalized
5 Rcsidcnce - 160 W. Merrick Rd., Baldwin, Long Island ~ _
Occupation - Insurance Busincss - 5
v
PHILOMEL CRISAHTHQS SABAHT ? Mother orn in Grcccc; deceased ~ _
4
I 5_ , b A
SLRAKT - Brother, 39 years old; married; born in U.S.
' Rcsidcncc - S. Grove Strcet, Frcoport, Long Island
Occupation - Owner of Ford Agency in Frcoport
It is noted that he is a well known spccd boat racer.! y '
O
EUXTDND'SARANT Brother, 37 years old; married; born in U.S.
Ru5id0UCC - London, England suburb! _ ,
Occupation - Owner of Chemicals and Essential Oils, Ltd.
cxport-import from London, England
92
' rva/92WILLIAM QnR NT ~ Brothmr, 27 years old; married; born in U.S.
- _' Residence - 100 W. Merrick Road, Baldwin, Long Islano I
Occupation - In insurance business with fatncr
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RICHARD§£§Q§§ - Brother, 22 years old; single} born is U.S.
Residence - 160 U. Merrick Road, Baldwin, Long Island _
, Occupation Salesman, Strauss Store, Frccport, L. I. .0
, ELECTRA MARIELB%XSOH - Sister, 38 years old; married; born U}S. P ' Residence - 150 U. Merrick Road, Baldwin, Long Island _ - 1
- Occupation - Real estate business, ,
JOEL JAZQQE ~ Brothcrin-Law
' Residence - 169 W. Merrick Road, Baldwin, Long Island .
Occupation ~ Used car dealer, Frccport, Long Island
.LOUISE J. SARAHT - wife
W Residence - RD #1, Cayuga Heigkts Rd., Ithaca, N.Y. '
' Records of Marriage Liccnsc Bureau, NYC, reflect that _
ALFRED SARAHT narried LOUI3E JQKQOSS, 60 Morton Street,
New York City, on July 3, l9R5} She was born h/2/23
at New York City; 4 ,
sum-!'1' - Son, born 12/1,,--ms at It§.'.acs., 11.1.
- Residence - RD #1, Cayuga Heights R1,, Ithccc,_H.Y.
STEPI{E1=I srswm - Son, born 6/15/n8 at Ithaca, I~I.Y. ' v- Resicc59»- RD #1, Cayuga Heights Rd., Ithaca, N.Y. 4 .¢ .. J _ <
VICTOR K. D. ROSS - Fathc-r-in-A-Lm-.' '
I Residence - RD #3, Taughannock BIkd., Ithaca, H.Y.
»*- Occupation - Luwycr, llh North Aurora 5t., Ithaca, N.Y. _
Mn-m Bfiiass - Iiothcr-inLmr . ,
Rcsiénccc-1 RD #3, Taughcnnock Blvd1,_Ithccc, N.Y.
c . RESIDE_I§_C_E_§_
' SARANT has furnished the following residences and the periods
spent at each place. . '
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599 S, Ocean $yonuej*FroeQ0r% L053 Iland f 1913-1935
Residcd with family
23 Colony Street; West_Hempstead, Long Islano- 1936-5/blResided with fmnily this ddréss listé in 7 Zanii
_ Cooper Union records!
105 Qlijtqn Avgnue, Newark, New Jersey -- 6/hl;9[#l
Y iLAdVisod né shared a room with o former classmate
at Cooper Union, SAQ'SPCOL, who was also employed
at Western Electric Company this address listed
u~ - '
at4,.
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-in vlestern Electric employment records as of 9/1+3.!
llk Norwoco Avenue! Long Branch, New Jcrsog '
This address was not mentioned by Subject CPRB, AGO
records reflecting employment with U.S. Army Signal
Corps, Fort Monmouth, N.J. list this address as 9/kl!
590 Russell Avenue, Long Brgnqn, New Jersey +- 9/hl~9[hg» W Advised he rented furnished house vith"3sRJAm;n1;Ew1s
and nARv3;<sAcss, also employed at Ft. Monmouth.
Central YMCA, B;yonne,oNev_Jersey -- 9/k2~lO/Q2
Advised this was §hile he wés looking for a permanent
room.
QM Host 33rd Q§rcet,WBaycnn:, Rev Jorsoy -1 lO/R2-3/k3 Advised 631s was i onolroom apartment, Qhie he _
occupied alone. {This address listed in Western
Electric employment records as of 10/28/h?.
Q
Q8 West 3hth Street, Bacnne Wow Jorse" - _V_ 7_ J ?L -_ ,, ,,_;-/_
was listed as nis acdrcss prior to moving to Morton
Street in letter fround in search of his residence.
65 Morton Strcot,_Apoi§mpt @I,{Hcy_York City 5- l0/R3-Q/b6 Ibis address listed Ln wcstorn Elcctricen@loymehQ't92records asrf 3/kn; lease located in search of. Iresidence reflects occupancy from l0/l/M3.!
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#22 Eddy Street, n.n.~.¢@.,A ex: York -A29/t6;]/_1+w5 .H 7 Advisedahe shared oartmcht with the RO5S's, in~lsws!
and that he moved from this address about 2 weeks
after son, STEPHEN, was born, 6/15/t3. This address _'
listed in western Electric employment records as of
9/#6 ! ~ _ ~ .» c
Q_a1/ixgaz gsighps Road, _RD_#l, I_tho.eo.,, 1-;;.§92?.» y?<>;~2¢ Tq/0 w. 3300;; -
_DA1'q30::§c i--r T.?[1§i-2/R2 .v
Advised that he and family lived with the DAYTONS ,
during this period, while he was working on construc-
tion of his house, located next door.
_ Earns? Hsiséis BQQQ2 RD #1, 33h@¢@».F°3 York -- §Z 9 is dss '
This is new modernistic home, which SARART built himself
-I
n. EDUCATION ,
£7
i SARANT described his education as follows. yescrn Electric
Company Employment Records also listed this educational record. g
' Arcer Street School - Frceport, New York -- 9/an-6/30
Frecport High School - Freeport, New York ~~ 9/32-9/36 A
empstead High School - Hempsteed, New York -- l§36 graduéted!
Cooger Union - Nev York City -- 1936-l9¥l Coopcr Union records
reflect'he entered in 9/36 and graduated on 6/5/kl with al
B.E.E. Degree! ' > -
Stevens Institute - Hoboken, N. Y. -- Subject advises he
" . attended for approximately 2 months in l9hl or l9h2.
Western Electric Company employment records indicate
attendance from 9/kl to 12/hl! '
Brooklyn Polytechnic Institute -~ Subject advises he was in H
in attendance for approximately one term in lhh
material in his n sidvnce indicated one term, l9h3q
l9kh school year; graduate courses in E.E.!
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Truck Form, Hcmpsteod, N.Y. Summer! -
l Allan Berg Florist, Hempstead Ave., Hempsteed, H.Y. :" 3
greenhouse attendant summer! _ '
Swift Cleaners, Freeport, .Y., helper summer!
Universal Form Clamp Company, lOl Perk Avenue, New York City, '
A engineering assistant ' -92 .
SARART advised that these employments,
the period from 1936 to l9hl, while he was still
Electric Company records indicate the employment for ALLAH BERG took
place from May 1939 to September l939. SARANT stated he was not certain
of the chronological order of these employnents, but that he worked for
the'Universal Form Clamp Company prior to his employment with Western
~ Electric Company. _ _ ' = 7all temporary, covered
in school. western
- * ' Western Electric Coqpnny; lCO Central Avenuei_§eernyl N.J,,
iro'6/l6/Ll to 9/25/kl. Records of this company reflect he was employed
as of the sbovewdctes as a switchboard engineer and that he resigned "in.
order to pursue laboratory work." '~
_ §.S. Arny_Signal Corps, General Development Lqporntories,
Fort Monrmutp, New Jersey 5- 9/2g/Ml to 9/Eikg. Records of the CPRB,
Adjutant Gcnérals or::¢@; Department of the Army, reflect that ALFRED
UHEU SARAHT was appointed junior radio engineer, P-l, temporary appoint-
ment on September 22, l9hl. His duties were developing and testing new
radio direction finding equipment designed for vehicular use by combat
units of the U. S. Army. He was employed in the Engineering Service
Section VHF Installation Division!. Additional background information
in this file reflected that Subject speaks and reads Greek and Spanish.
His listed technical avocotions included power tools and lathe, pho~
togrcphy including processing!, painting, and short-wave radio operation
including construction of same.! .
,-7o- _1» SARANT furnished the following record of his employment history
which has been augmented by additional investigation. , 1, J29*
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< ' ' . V. I -M .~', A ,.,4.-92Qn geytember Q, 19kg, SARAHT was suspended for failure to» 1' . _% j, c . . _,» .~3",.~~ . -.Laboratory to proceed to Detroit, Michigan, for temporary duty. v __~l_ », q.¢§: .> 1-92 .~ _ , , 1._ _ ..~.,~ 92 ...1 _ 92 . He was discharged with prejudice on September 3, l9h2; how- _ ig,
ever, this was later changed to resignation without prejudice, »_ V i r
effective September 3, l9h2. V , .
.
…[truncated]