RFK Jr. Podcast: Paul Heroux - RF/EMF Radiation Health Effects

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RFK Jr. Podcast: Paul Heroux - RF/EMF Radiation Health Effects
YouTube video by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBplrhixedw). Transcript is the auto-caption track — verbatim ASR, not a certified transcript.

everybody's on their cell phone these are addictive that have to be controlled only about 20% of the radiation goes for communication the rest is diffused into your body which explains a lot of things children of course are very vulnerable to these things because their brains are developing yeah there's some cell phones that are better than others the Apple phones are the worst we need somebody like yourself to put a bit of order in the house in my opinion hey everybody my guest today Dr Paul Aro is probably the to top expert in the field of bioelectric uh physics and radio frequency radiation and the impacts of radio frequency radiation on on nature and human beings uh Dr Paulo is a scientist with experience in physics he PhD in physics and engineering and the health Sciences he started his research career at The Institute de rer of hydro Quebec and veres Quebec and the internationally reputed electr technical laboratory the biggest electric company in in uh Canada after rounding out his formation with courses in biology and Medicine he became interested in public health and was appointed associate professor of McGill University's faculty of medicine where where he is the current occupational health program director he is uh as I said an expert in toxicology and and uh um electromagnetic radiation and I uh won a lawsuit about cell phone radiation suing f f FCC the Federal Communications uh Commission in 2021 and we sued FCC because the the science that they were using to defend their lack of regulation of uh cell phone Wi-Fi radiation um the the science had overwhelmed it there was no science behind it they said their their assumption was that until that radiation began to raise the temperature of your body or your organs in other words you want you microwaving you and cooking you that there were no sub thermal effects and uh this is wrong and there are literally I was shock and polaro can tell us what it is hyperbole but there were over 10,000 studies out there over the years showing uh raising concerns about Wi-Fi radiation and showing that indeed there are some Thal in bags that your your the cells in your body act as little antennas that are regulating electric currents and energy currents and flow between all of the functions of your body and the way that you think the way that you feel the way that your your immune system works the way that you uh that you move it's all regulated by electrical impulses that you're your cells regulate and that the cell tower when near you disrupts that and uh and then does a lot of other bad stuff but in all the the so we won that lawsuit and FCC has was this was during the Trump Administration the head of the FCC at that time was a Verizon lobbyist and they um have ever since then uh blocked anything from happening so they're required essentially required they implied in this lawsuit was that and the and the decision by the federal court of appeals in Washington DC was that they need to start a new start a new rule making they need to do a real assessment what Wi-Fi radiation there are solutions to it and we're going to talk about those but that's where we are in the federal case I wanted to bring all on here because he better than anybody else that I know um can explain explain what happens to our radio frequency regulation our radiation inside the human body so Paul welcome to on my podcast it's a delight to finally meet you in person thank you so tell us what does uh what does Wi-Fi radiation or radio frequency radiation do when it when it gets into the Human by why would should we be concerned about this well the 10,000 studies that you me mentioned are not there by luck they are there because there are actually health effects of electromagnetic radiation the reason why so many governments would believe that there are no effects uh can seem to be a mystery but it's not a mystery to me because I'm a fairly old man as you can see and I was there when all of these uh I would say these strategies were being developed in other words industry desperately wanted to have very high standards and this was done in the days of the microwave ovens when this was the new Wonder application but industry realized that electromagnetic radiation had tremendous potential for commercial applications so you'll have to consult the law to determine whether this was done I would say in a uh in the underhanded way or not but what they came up with is that this radiation is not dangerous and they had three great arguments that they could present to the public and to politicians who as you know don't have too much time to deal with things like that they said well you know this radiation is nonionizing secondly they said the radiation levels that we emit are too weak and thirdly they said there are no mechanisms to explain the action of these fields on the body unfortunately all three of these arguments are completely false from the scientific point of view and the thing that I came up with relatively recently is that they should have known better and they did not and if you look at the science basically the problem is can this radiation triggers certain reactions in human bodies that could interfere or make them see and so we call this essentially the concept of energy of activation what does it take to make changes in the human body from radiation and what they use in fact are Concepts that date to 1889 it's called the arenus equation and what they said says is that you have to break a certain amount of energy in order to trigger a chemical reaction the thinking is simple you have to break something before it can come back together in a different way so they use this concept to say that it's non ionizing because indeed the radiation is nonionizing so they thought this is a really good thing to present to the public and then they said the radiation is too weak in other words it cannot ionize so consequently it can't do anything and then show us the mechanisms that allow these reactions to occur well there's something very interesting about the human body the human body has as its first characteristic that it organizes stain and this is a bit hard to digest from the second law of Thermodynamics which is universally accepted in physics if you organize things you have in a corresponding we way to generate disorganization this disorganization occurs in all living systems and it's called reactive oxygen species or unstable molecues now once you understand this that living systems have to generate free radicals then they become vulnerable to fields that are extremely weak and so what this means is that the argu argument of radiation is to weak no longer holes and then there are no mechanisms I can describe in detail at least two mechanisms that are able to alter your rate of cancer and that a are able to enter your rate of diabetes so in other words industry had no science to stand on but they fed these stories to politicians into the public you know many years ago I had a a radio show called ring of fire this was back in the um I think mid 2000s um or early 2000s but I had a guy on that time I met and i' met many times since named Dr George Carlo and Dr George Carlo was what we would call an industry bios itute he was a guy who had good credentials and but he was a mercenary scientist and he had been he would he would be hired buying industry to um to to reach certain pre-ordained results that the industry wanted to to uh have a scientific study that validated some profit taking Enterprise that they had already determined they wanted to do and they hired George Carlo to look look at cell phone radiation because as you know back in around 2013 Congress and the GAO were were putting tremendous pressure on FCC to start uh doing real science and regulating cellone radiation which they were doing in Russia and other countries uh we weren't Russia had this tremendous amount of science early science on in this area and they were are very very strict in their regulations over there and Congress was getting worried about it there were people coming in sick there were you know Americans were complaining about it and they started pressuring the industry so the industry in order to defend itself hired George Carlo and George Carla and they wanted him to do a report clearing it all and saying that it was all as safe as can be and he he was a he was a guy who was capable of doing that stuff but he started but he had a conscience and he started reading the science and the science was so overwhelming he was Finding uh studies out rat studies from Europe that you know they that um they they put a a cell phone next to a rat for even a couple of minutes and the E eegs of that rat would not turn back to normal for for days the same thing with children and that there was evidence then that it was opening up the permeability of the bloodb brain barrier in people's brains and you know they he started finding this they' given him $26 million to do this study and he gave the money back and he said I can't do it and then he went public and he shocked the industry and you know he turned out to be a very brave man and uh and he's been working I think ever since to expose it but that was my first exposure to how bad this is how over in The Spence was on it yes I think you your description is very very accurate uh the uh the fact is that when industry was confronted with this problem you're dealing essentially with the Institute of electrical and electronics Engineers they didn't really have any indigenous expertise and the people that they acquired nor naturally seemed pressure to tell the industry what it wanted to hear so essentially what happened is that in this process in the end industry avoided the problem and tried to find arguments so that the public and even their own constituency I mean you're talking about 400,000 Engineers that they would all believe that this radiation is an offensive and if you start to broadcast these ideas you know amongst Engineers with 400,000 people it's very powerful and they are the ones who hold the expertise on electromagnetism but of course their assessment of science was extremely superficial they didn't want to get into it they felt it was not their venue and uh what Carlo dealt with is all this health evidence coming from epidemiologists and so on but one thing that I know is that when epidemiologists talk to Engineers it's very difficult to find a common ground they don't understand each other and so consequently even today we are in a situation in which industry is resting on very very non-existent science really and do you want to know how the tests were conducted to uh determin that this radiation was safe well they were very short shortterm test essentially the military wanted to know if we have a pilot in an F-16 and this pilot is obviously subjected to the radiation of his radar does the radiation impair His function his ability to understand situations his ability to follow orders and so they ran very short-term tests on a series of rats and monkeys that's 40 to 60 Minutes on monkeys like five monkeys 10 rats things like that and the the Criterion that they Ed to determine the safety level was are these animals reducing their ability to feed themselves because they would have a a a pellet that they could that they could press and that would deliver a morcel of food to them so they increase the radiation until these animals reduce their intake of food and so on the basis of these very simplistic tests the industry ran away and said this is what we're going to use you have to ask yourself can a test that last 40 to 60 Minutes represent you know the span of human life of 70 years or the effect on humans over many generations so it's rather humiliating to think how all this was done and was arranged yeah and so now we also have um uh test showing that this is hurting people that you know animals that wildli that even trees are affected by it um I was you know what are what is the bad news I mean how bad is this are are you know I there's people getting you know I'm representing a lot lot of people who have who have what they call cell phone tumors who are of gleo blastomas in their brains so you know um and my uncle Ted Kennedy died of one of those tumors and and the people who were getting these tumor but my my colleague Johnny Cochin another attorney had what he thought he understood to be a cell phone tumor that he died from and um you're seeing people get these tumors right behind the ears where they that they favor with their cell phones and but so far we're not seeing the science come out to support it we're seeing a lot of anecdotal evidence and then you know and uh some sence on the cancer issues but on the other issues the science is pretty overwhelming isn't it yes uh for example in the case of cancer uh imagine that you have one cell that is mutated in your body is very well known that in a normal human body you have full of mutations that do not develop into cancer uh you know for years and years and years but imagine that you have an agent like electromagnetic radiation that is applied to this cell what does the radiation do it changes the level of metabolism in cells in other words when you apply it the metabolism goes down and when you release the radiation the metabolism goes back back up now if you culture cell and you you expose them to various levels of radiation you will find that from one cancer cell of one type this kind of electromagnetic treatment will increase the diversity of cells that you have some will have more chromosomes than the first original cell some will have fewer and so on and so forth by increasing the diversity of uh cancer cells within the body you increase the malignancy of the tumor itself and you can trigger its appearance and so there's plenty of evidence that an agent like electromagnetic radiation which is a mo modulator of metabolism can have these effects on cancer specifically and this evidence has been around for a long long time but as you know industry has fought the evidence and claimed that the science is good science is always complicated at the best of times but when you uh survey the whole thing some conclusions can be reached just in in the case the legal case that you mentioned and another impact was to increase the permeability of the bloodb brain barrier can you talk a little bit about that absolutely uh the brain is a special organ in the body it's responsible for so many things and by and large the perfusion of blood into the brain is highly controlled in certain regions like the hypothal and the pituitary gland it's rather permeable because you want the brain to get proper messaging from what happens in the body but in overall in the brain it's hard to get from the blood into neural tissue well plenty of evidence showed that when you subjected to even non-thermal levels of electromagnetic radiation that are perfectly fine with the FCC you increase the permeability of the bloodb brain barrier this was documented usually by penetration of albumin which is a protein that you have in large amounts in your blood but the problem with albumin is that albumin is a buffer against all the toxicant in your body basically when you have an acute exposure to high concentrations of a toxicant albumin gobbles up most of it in order to release it to your tissues progressively thereby lowering the shock when you allow albumin to penetrate into your nervous tissue all of these toxins that are accumulated by albumin have access to your brain as well so it's obvious physiologically that this stye of permeation of the blood brain barrier is a fundamental risk to the brain itself and what happens to the brain when you allow toxics into the brain well I think any toxicology uh uh specialist can tell you you know the brain is supposed to be relatively immune to these chemicals and all of a sudden you allow entry into a delicate tissue this tissue the brain is very dependent on supplies of ATP you know that if you stop breathing right now you will lose Consciousness very very rapidly because your nervous system depends on the high amount of ATP being generated continuously by the supply of oxygen into your brain so this is a highly delicate tissue and if you start allowing all sorts of toxicant and do this toxicant can be almost anything because whatever you were exposed to that the brain did not allow into neural tissue whatever your exposure now can get into uh into around neurons that uh actually are the functioning part of your brain and will that interfere with that will cause inflammation or interfere with brain function at some point these toxicants that are allowed into the brain can do that by themselves but we also know that the radiation itself is well known to increase reactive oxygen species you know in in tissues and these reactive oxygen species are essentially molecules that have been activated to be I would say hostile to uh tissue that is healthy so when you uh suppress metabolism in any cell it's a little bit like you have a garden hose and you are you're Watering your lawn and then you take the hose and you bend it so that the water can't come out anymore well behind you if there are any leaks on your hose they will quickly spurt some water you know that you know Spurs that were in there before and so those are the losses of metabolism and we know exactly where they occur in complex one in complex true tree of oxidative phosphorilation so you suppress metabolism you you are going to increase reacted oxygen species and tissues this has been repeatedly demonstrated in relation to radio frequency radiation exposure so these reactive oxygen species by their very nature are hostile when they are in excessive quantities and when they're present in the brain of course they can do damage now all of these chronic diseases can be linked to excesses R we're talking about what things like diabetes things like Alzheimer's things like Parkinson's am Tropic lateral therosis all of these chronic neurological diseases are connected with Roos and microwave radiation can produce an in an increased concentration of these things you know oh the the woman who uh brought originally initially the this lawsuit to me the federal lawsuit was a woman named DNA talk over and um she you may have met her she was uh an officer in the Israeli uh Defense Force for a long time and she was a cyber warfare expert so she was in a basically in a um a compartment uh that was filled with electronics and uh and getting radiated all the time and at some point she developed literally overnight a sensitivity to to it and after that she she had to move to the cat skill she couldn't be around it's very very hard to get away away from a radio frequency radiation nowadays because they're saturating our the globe with it there cell towers everywhere um there's now it's coming from satellites now and so she had to move to a remote area the of the aills but she can come into rooms in my house and say this room is heavily radiated and I had a meet her and well every time that she said that she was absolutely accurate I've since then met many many people who have this kind of sensitivity including a lot of children who get very very sick I'm even small exposures to cell phones or to radiation and it's very much complicated their lives um can you explain that and uh you know and talk talk about that your own experience with people who are sensitive how how many people are like that uh people believe that it's between two and 3% of people who are aware of it and take defensive measures in order to combat uh these environmental exposures now the mechanisms are probably exactly the same as the one that we discussed uh essentially when you generate reactive oxygen species your nervous system and your immunity can become uh sensitized to it and the nervous system will react now I know of cases where children who are electrosensitive would find in a classroom the one spot where the radiation was lowest and I would go in with my instrument and I would realize oh this is where he sits right and these people know spontaneously how to defend themselves against the radiation but indeed they become ostracized from society and uh some people are very sensitive not only to radio frequency radiation but also to radiation from Power Systems and even from static electricity so it can become a very very disturbing syndrome that changes your life completely and the fear that us you know Public Health people have is that as we increase the level of radiation are we going to magnify and increase correspondingly the number of people who are afflicted by this by this condition and nobody wants that to happen now the mechanisms of uh increases in reactive oxygen species is a mechanism that can I would say solicit many physiological processes and that explains why all people who are electromagnetically sensitive don't have exactly the same symptom I know a woman whose eye left eye closes each time there is radiation and very reliably for other people they will get a headache that depends on individual physiology and sometimes on the variables of the exposure because as you know our electric environment is extremely complicated it's a mixture of all sorts of ingredients and for this reason it has been very difficult to unravel the uh the science of it another aspect is that when people try to do experiments they are rarely in a position in which they can provide a completely radiation free environment as a baseline in their research this has made the whole field of bioelectromagnetics very complicated I would say the reactive oxygen species is a dominant mechanism also changes in metabolism and that is essentially happening there's also a third mechanism that I know of this is less known it's called the Rous mechanism this is a mechanism by which radiation changes the pH in the fluid even in water and so all of these things together can create extremely complicated effects and syndromes and these EHS people come with all sorts of symptoms regularly and phone me and ask for help now you've said and you know this is very very well established in the science science that the principal exposure to most people from radiation is one cell towers that are near your home or near your place of business and then also probably the worst putting a cell phone next your head um can you talk about that and can you talk about particularly children you know know that are now we've got a generation of kids that growing up uh sleeping in from their cell phones having their cell phones in bed with them at night I have to I tell my kids this you know because I'm I'm involved in these issues uh I read this science I'm alarmed but I can't convey my alarm to my kids they just don't believe it and uh you know I have to go in their rooms at night from when they were little and take the cell phone out of the beds if they they slid with them next to their Billows um what is this doing and what are here you know what are your feelings about that well what you're fighting is something very powerful people instinctively believe that if Government allowed something on the market it must be fine and they don't realize that there's intimate connections between government and Industry and so if industry is given too much leeway you are appealing C you're looking for catastrophes you probably need remember this guy Adam Smith right 1776 he's the the father of of of capitalism capitalism yeah yes but in The Wealth of Nations he warns us he says do not let the merchants take the control of the laws these people people have in the past armed populations but in the United States apparently the FCC has been labeled a captured agency and it is not the only one so we need somebody like yourself to put a bit of order in the house in my opinion and so uh in view of your experience with corporate corporations generally I think you would be a great man to do that I wish I wish you the best of luck now as I want to I want to point out that that blood for me was not prearranged it's very spontaneous I admire a lot some of the statements that you make about government we need government but government should not be a substitute for the people and in some ways this is exactly what is it is trying to do in most industrial Nations governments now control the majority of the money flow in a country that means that government changes its own ideas about itself but going back to the exposure depending on what whether you consider that high intensity exposures or chronic exposures which it over a long period of time are the most important some people would say that the cell phone is the dominant exposure because it radiates into your head at very high intensities in fact when you put a cell phone against your head only about 20% of the radiation goes for communication the rest is diffused into your body which explains a lot of things so intense exposures from cell phones but cell phone towers are active all the time so they contribute smaller levels but if you multiply them by the time of exposure for most people unless you use a cell phone professionally they would be the strongest source of exposure so all of these things together will get worse over time as Engineers who have no limits in their imagination uh think of things like The Internet of Things the internet of bodies they would like everything to communicate with everything else but this is in my opinion a philosophy that is wrongheaded we don't need every grain of sand to to to you know communicate with every other grain of sand and we need privacy we need uh a decent environment to live in that is uh protected from the invasions of the engineers who feel that whatever they can do is appropriate what would you tell a parent um about you know who's who've got kids sleeping with their cell phones and putting them next to their head what advice would you give them you know what's the best way to minimize that and what would you do to scare just to frighten them about well you know appropriately well I would tell them please protect their sleeping environment because you may not have control over what happens in schools and elsewhere but you can at least control their bedrooms you have to make sure that in their bedrooms boat low frequency magnetic fields from baseboard heaters are low as well as the radio frequencies from the routers or something like that these should be extinguished at night and how do I scare them well uh you know dying from cancer or from any chronic disease in you know at a very very low age is a very dramatic thing and being impaired in your learning because after all these uh this radiation is known to have impacts on the brain it Alters memory in some ways ways that are subtle but that are nonetheless there experiments of animals conf confirm this extensively so if you want to protect the future of your child and remember that they will be exposed to this radiation a lot longer than us adults were because for us it's relatively recent invention for them it will be lifelong exposure and the danger is that we will get use to new rates of cancer new rates of diabetes new rates of Alzheimer's new rates of Parkinson's that will become entirely normal because practically the whole population is being exposed in other words there are no controls left so wire your house or Internet uh uh wiring and reduce your your use of Wireless I don't think we'll get use of Wireless completely it will still be around but it simply has to be managed in such a way that we reduced uh risks in particular to Chronic uh diseases yeah I mean I I want I want to get to that man the solution because you actually have it pretty elegant and um and workable solution which is a future and fiber optic cable um which is better for our privacy and it uh it's better for ending the surveillance state it will protect nature protect our bodies protect our children's health it will protect us against chronic disease all of that I want to get into that in a minute but tell me first tell us what are other countries doing you know how do you see us compared to European countries uh to I know in some of the European countries they're restricting the cell phones for kids and schools um and and what Russia is doing Russia knows a lot about this because they Tred to develop it as a weapon originally MH and um uh Radio use radio frequency radiation and it appears that people are using it as a weapon you know we're seeing the Havana syndrome and there's a lot of speculation about whether that's radio frequency on Weaponry but but talk about that what's happening in other countries and also if you get about the use of the of of it as a weapon uh as far as other countries in France uh they discourage the use of Wireless in uh in kindergarten and in in schools they ask the children to leave their cell phones at the door and it's that simple and I think they're doing this because they apprehend the risk of the radiation but but also because they believe that it's not conducive to proper learning I mean I've always wondered I'm a professor in a university and I am in front of class and all of these students in front of me have their laptops open with Wi-Fi provided by the university are they doing some homework you know from the previous class what are they doing exactly I do want them to to look up information that would be relevant to the discussion in in class but what it means is that essentially you are curtailing diminishing you know attenuating any discussion that could happen in in class normally because essentially everybody can go their own way and socially this is a catastrophe you see it even in very simple countries where people used to uh meet in the public place face on Sundays and talk and after the Advent of cell phones everybody's on their cell phone these are addictive devices that have to be controlled because you have a science that's being developed to capture attention and this attention is subtracted from family life and for from intellectual life so I never understood personally while in a class you don't want all the students to be attentive to what's happening and we encourage people on the basis of what I have no idea on the basis of L that a Salesman told you that this will be a boon to education and Children Of course are very vulnerable to these things because their brains are developing and so any uh signs and there are many that the brain does not all develop in the same way when this it's subjected to this radiation are quite alarming all right let's talk about Solutions what is the solution you know one of the things that you talked a lot about is fiber optic cables and what is you know how would that solve the problem uh Clinton promised the uh US population that they would get uh up uh fiber to the home didn't he and what happened instead is that the industry took in the money and developed Wireless so the promise that President Clinton had made perfect technical sense you want to provide people with speed and with access to the world through the internet and uh essentially uh when industry took that contract up they perverted it to a wireless yeah I would say deployment simply because they thought that they could make more money that way and so I believe myself that businesses and private household should have wired optical fiber which has a potential for Speed that is enormously higher than what it Wireless has and secondly it is energy very very efficient we have to think in terms of the energy that we need to spend per B bit or bite of data that we're transmitting because apparently the appetite of people for data is very very large so we have to be thoughtful of how we transmit information lest you know a large proportion of us electrical power is completely absorbed by uh you know telecommunications devices so this is very very important so fiber to businesses and to the home is one thing the second thing that is coming up that may become very important is lifi we believe that the frequencies of radiation that are visible or very near to the infrared might be less physiologically hazardous because living systems have had a very long time to adapt to this radiation whereas the microwave and radio frequency radiations are entirely new to the environment in other words there was none of this be before the development of radio frequency techniques so by using uh infrared and lifi we could potentially restore our ability to have wireless at much much much reduced risks so I'm not saying that WiFi will not be found one day to have some risk but we have been using Wi-Fi uh WiFi for some applications for some sometime we've used the headsets that are uh using infrared for example and I don't believe that there are reports that this has been found to be dearly serious we have had remote controls for television for a long time that were also infrared so there is this belief that infrared radiation will be much less dangerous than radio frequencies simply because we have had about three billion years to get used to this of radiation in terms of personal use um you know my practice is that I I never put the cell phone next to my head I keep it on the speaker all the time and I hold it away from my my body um do headsets work or earphones well if you're using an air tube it is a very good insallation of course now if you're using a uh normal uh ear uh ear set well this has a wire that fleeing into your ear so it's not quite as good insulation as an air tube which is entirely non-electrical but there's many alterations that could be made you could have a a cell phone that emits uh infared radiation and you could have something on your head that receives this infared radiation and that would be a big gain because in a Cell tone you indeed have a lot of radio frequency radiation uh that is peled right into your head how about earpods yeah well the problem with those is that they're not very very powerful but you stick them right into your ear so the the the dose that you get from such devices is very hard to measure for a couple of reasons since they are low power they get an ex Redemption when they're approved so you're not obligated to investigate how uh they irradiate your tissues and making measurements inside your ear while you're using an air pod is even more this difficult than assessing the radiation from a cell phone for a cell phone you know how they do it generally they use a mixture of water salt and sugar that they sort of stir together and they put the cell phone Above This solution and they determine how much it heats up the solution this is very very crude and simple at least it's something in the case of an ear pod it's very hard to know there's no requirement to specify it so we're being more and more inundated with these devices that are assumed on the basis of a bunch of monkeys and rats for 40 to 60 Minutes to have no effect on you for your lifetime how nice is that okay uh apps I remember just reading one one I what I Was preparing for the the uh the case for the argument and the court of appeals case reading some studies that show that the more apps you have on the phone the more radiation that's that's coming out but are there and in in the same question are there some cell phones that are better than others yeah the Apple phones are the worst that's very very clear yeah the Apple phones are the worst yes and you notice all these electrical devices have something in common the computer initially you know they used an operating system called dos dos answered the commands of the user and then some more sophisticated operating systems came into being like Windows for example and what you notice of them is that the operating system could a took lot of initiatives on its own it did things and over time progressively we have lost control of computers in other words you feel that they're owned by the people who sold them to you they have these updates and these inevitable I would say uh uh appendages to the software that provide you with publicity and exactly the same thing is happening to cell phones you place them on uh airplane mode yet they will still emit radiation because the owner is actually the company who programs them and who updates the self the the software in it automatically so it is an invasion because with electronics and programming it is possible to do that um and the more apps that you have on your cell phone the more radiation you're getting they're all little individuals that have their own desires to communicate with the outside so if it's a Weather Service how often do you want the weather I think in my opinion cell phones should still be yours they should respond to your desires and your commands and not push information to you and not suggest things to you about your behavior or wake you up at one moment or another unless you want to so you're being relieved of control by artificial intelligence devices that on are under the control and the interests of others okay uh weaponization the syndrome is that coming from Wi-Fi weapons well you all know about uh this application that is very very uh open about using say 100 GHz radiation to heat up the skin of protesters so that they flee away from a location this is a very very simple application based on heat only but for this kind of application you need uh you need essentially uh I would say large emitters you need antennas that are fairly cumbersome to carry around so when you see these things appearing at the sight of your manifestation you you will not miss them now the more subtle effects uh of mind control with the radiation in my opinion mind control as is very happens happens in science this is a bit of an exaggeration I I think they can probably disrupt your mind with it but do view that the government takes control of your mind in this way I I think is is a little bit uh fantasy but uh if you're really uh willing to do it you can probably make people sicker by simply exposing them to radiation uh in excessive levels I mean that's totally in the realm of possibilities I don't think that be targeted to like a single apartment or a single person so that you could remotely you know have a weapon that would direct like array towards one apartment or any individual if you wanted to harm that person rather than you know uh the general public there are probably some frequencies that are more appropriate for this you've all probably heard that with 5G for example you have what we call beam forming what this means is that instead of having an antenna that broadcasts in a very very general way see in a third of the space around it it forms a beam that is really focused and this beam of course can also be very intense because it's a result of an antenna that has many many small elements that are coordinated in order to achieve such an effect once you try to beam it into an apartment you have to consider does this radiation go through the apartment the walls of the apartment the windows of the apartment once it gets in there is the Target in direct line of sight or is it going to have to bounce around and if it does Bounce Around does it represent a little bit of a microwave oven like uh you know situation or is it going to be quickly attenuated so it requires a certain level of skill to be able to I would say pinpoint and Target somebody but just to cause damage the requirements are much much much lower in terms of knowledge okay uh driverless cars do we need 5G for driverless cars you can't do that with uh with fiber optics I never thought for the life of me that there was need in any way for driverless scars to have wireless I think driverless SCS can be built with cameras that are very fast and look around them the same way that the driver does I think it's simply a habit or a mannerism of the industry to want to implant uh radiation and networking in everything basically the dealer wants to know ahead of the car driving into the garage you know who he is and what his scheduled maintenance is very very nice but I think that to drive on a highway you need to see the highway and I think that the image analysis that is necessary for this is not quite within our reach you would have to have roads that are specially designed and if you have a big system of autro probably it's possible to do this but it could be entirely done with vision as opposed to being done with wireless and creating a huge Network which makes your car a spy wherever you need leave it on the street because after all once it's wired and you know in communication you know you you have a uh a flee of vehicles that can probably hear things and probably see things do you have uh I mean what's your hope what's your hope for the future I mean I you know you're you are you're not a pessimistic man you're a you're a happy man and very idealistic and what do you see as a as the uh as the good future for us may I be honest yeah I think you are the hope for the future because you are one of these few politicians that doesn't seem tied to all sorts of interests and I think you see the the government process and the processes of society more clearly than certainly all the other candidates in the United States and possibly better than all the politicians of the world I really respect the work that you are doing and I have high hopes for your future all right well I want to tell everybody I was not fishing for that but thank you very much uh and and then tell us where people can reach you Dr Bolero where they reach you oh by the way is h e r o uux that's right and uh they can reach me and by email at pa. h r o ux at miguel. CA Migel is the University where I teach in Montreal yeah well we all know Mill University thank you very much Dr R it's been a pleasure talking to you thank you Robert the best of luck to you thank you