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This Might Be The Next Pandemic - Dr. Robert W Malone (Mario Nawfal)
YouTube video by Dr. Robert Malone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F1LBMpMAak). Transcript is the auto-caption track — verbatim ASR, not a certified transcript.
Well, doctor, it's a pleasure to speak to you again. Been a very long time. And um you know, everyone's distracted, including myself, distracted with what's happening in Iran. And then I saw the news of a of a of of some outbreak on a cruise ship heading to to somewhere in Cape Verde, I think it was, in West Africa. Um and then I saw it's called hantavirus, something I've never heard of before. And then I heard there's casualties. I'm like Okay, well, there was only a few that had the virus and there's already casualties in Cape Verde. They did not want to accept the cruise ship to dock in there in their country and they sent it back all the way to um to Spain. Um I think to the Canary Islands. So, I'm like, all right, I need to understand what's going on. Why is everyone concerned? Why is this all over the news? And there's no better person to speak to than the doctor himself that I haven't spoken to for a long time that was the leading voice when it came to COVID. So, doctor, please explain to me, to the audience, um what is hantavirus? Why why So, hanta is a multi-segmented RNA virus. I'm going to go geeky for just a minute just so we get that out of the way. It is so it's a a segmented negative strand RNA virus. So, it's kind of like influenza in the sense that it has a segmented genome and it's an RNA virus. It's enveloped. That's important because it means that it's a kind of virus that can be readily inactivated by a variety of different kinds of agents, disinfectants. An envelope makes a virus susceptible to various types of of It's a member of a family of viruses called bunyaviruses that's quite large and uh and most of those are carried by insects. They're it's an arthropod-borne virus, usually. But, hanta is different. Hanta is in the in hanta is not just one virus, it's many different types of viruses. They're subclasses. And they each have their own name. Uh there's uh a virus um that circulates uh rarely in North America. Uh but, in this case, what we have is the Andes virus. No surprise because the cruise ship, I think, originated in Argentina or or um uh somewhere in in uh South America. Uh that for which this particular Andes Uh these uh hantaviruses are universally associated with rodents. So, this is mice and rats. Uh and uh they're the infection of humans is almost always associated with exposure to rodent feces or fecal material that gets breathed in or somehow ends up in your mouth. Okay? So, it's mucosal uh contact with rodent uh um uh detritus. Uh particularly excreted material, so poop, rodent poop. Um and rodent poop that gets dried, this virus can survive. And uh you know, becomes particulate and uh so, you hear the stories of people that went to an old house or something like that and were poking around in it and got exposed to mouse droppings. Uh And in the case of the United States, it's typically deer mice. Uh they may be camping or something like that. So, that's usually the exposure. Andes virus is different from most of the other hantaviruses because it can rarely transmit between humans. But this is not COVID. This is not um measles. This is not something that is going to cause a widespread pandemic to answer your byline for this particular broadcast. Um it is associated with rare human-to-human transmission. And that always requires uh body fluids. Let's put it that way. Uh being exchanged between individuals. So that can include fomites. Uh things that are on your hands, that you touch a surface. Uh hanta can stay on surfaces for a while. Doorknobs, tables, kitchen utensils, things like that. Uh and so if two people were sharing a meal and they were sharing kitchen utensils, they might exchange the virus. Or if they were um very amorous and and uh prone to kissing and other things. Uh yes, even old people on cruise ships do have uh kissing and other forms of interaction. Uh they they can transmit the virus between themselves. In this particular case, what appears to have happened, at least this is the official byline right now. Official explanation. Is that two a couple that were on this cruise visited an area that had a uh landfill. Refugee dump, essentially. And the official explanation is that's how they got exposed to the hantavirus. Now, um an alternative frankly more likely explanation is that rodents uh from South America ended up on the boat. Uh and that certainly is something that happens uh with boats Uh quite frequently and of course we those stories are legion. The the black plague being the notorious example in human history. So but like the black plague when you have a a boat that is sailing from one region to another and checks into a port and it has a history of novel infections occurring during the cruise. Uh typically that vessel will be quarantined. This is the origin of a lot of the original need for international conventions having to do with infectious disease. And in this case as the boat pulled into its port it's a Dutch registered ship. It's kind of an expeditionary expeditionary cruise ship. So this is not like the Diamond Princess. This is one of these smaller boats where you're you're having an adventure whether you're going to the Antarctic or whatever. And in this case it was in in South America. And a number of people got infected and it's now we have a few that have died. What happens with the uh Andes uh hantavirus is that it gets a different pattern of infection than is typical in the old world. The old world gets a uh um more of a renal syndrome. The new world hantaviruses are associated with a uh kind of a pulmonary or cardiopulmonary syndrome. And it's quite lethal. And the truth is that there are no FDA authorized remedies for this. It's people speculate that you might be able to treat it with steroids such as was done with COVID. But that's not there's so few cases of this that have ever arisen that there no real treatment protocol has been developed. So this is not highly infectious. Matter of fact quite the opposite. It's rarely infectious between humans. And if you see a cluster of humans infected usually your conclusion if you're an epidemiologist is that there is rodent material that is you know for instance in the ventilation system for the ship or people are encountering it in some environment. Maybe there's a region of the ship that has had poor hygiene. And that would be the usual conclusion. This couple both of which I think one of which is passed away and the other is quite ill at the moment last I heard. Is you know likely to have encountered it together it seems like and with these Andes Hantavirus it has a latent period of infection of kind of a week to two weeks until the real significant clinical syndromes develop. And that absolutely tracks with the timeline on this particular cruise. So is this another pandemic? No, I'm sorry. Um why is it being amplified in the press? Because it gets clicks likes and follows and sells advertising. I call this fear porn. I've called it out now for years. I called it out with the uh monkeypox outbreak. The press really likes to amplify. You know the saying, Mario, if it bleeds, it leads. Well, the kind of the new hot and sexy version of that is it if it's an infectious disease, uh then that then it leads. Then it is really good press. And uh if you want to get your article seen by many or your newspaper read or whatever it is, you know, because everything's online these days, what you do is you >> Or our our video or our video watch. My team is good at coming up with good thumbnails. Right. Okay, yeah. Right. You're So, you're an early adopter of kind of the new uh cutting edge now, which is uh reals and uh streaming. Uh so >> a I have a quick question. So, just quickly, the on the numbers, the what is concerning, so I looked it up very briefly before we jumped on the show. And the thing that caught to my caught my attention is the fatality rate. So, from what I understand, is seven to eight have caught the virus, and three have already died. It is it's likely that those many of those eight will pass away. It is highly lethal. >> This is a highly lethal virus. So, the other highly infectious. Yeah, exactly. So, then So, then I checked it it said it was not very infectious. And I asked I've got the chat the chat here with ChatGPT as I was researching it just before we jumped in. I'm like >> Well, well, there's an exception. Yeah, so I So, I was you know, I was going back and forth just to do a quick debrief. Um so, my question >> thought is thought, but you know, to each his own. >> Ah, okay. I I used ChatGPT this time around. Usually I use Grok, but I was using my other phone. Um So, then the the other thing is that the the the the the spread the the infectious rate infection rate is very, very low. Um So, then my other question is Cape Verde did not accept the ship to dock there. The next question is, why would the country not allow the ship to dock there if it has such a low infection rate? That was the thing that caught my attention. I'm like Okay, you know, Robert will probably explain it to me. So, what you're seeing is a standard protocol when a when a ship is contaminated like this. And one of the things that was done was they put medical care personnel on the ship, which is the standard protocol. So, what you're seeing here is a very standardized process that these are these are subject to international treaties. This was the origin of the World Health Organization, by the way. Uh was the creating a central structure for adjudication of these international treaties that were largely driven by exactly this kind of scenario. An infected ship comes to port. And uh so, they they kind of it's it's baked into their protocols that if you have evidence of an infectious outbreak, because it's possible theoretically possible that this virus might be some new variant. It might have mutated. Um and so, the preponderance of caution is that uh the authorities, these port authorities will always default to quarantine and blocking ship from coming into >> was my That was my next question as well. It's my first question here on the list is mutation. Could that have Is there a possibility this might have mutated and when would we know? Isn't that one of the risks you said the country might have taken into consideration that this may become something a lot more significant? Yes, absolutely. But, uh is there evidence of that at this point? No. Uh so, overreacting, uh you know, it's great press, but uh the probability is extremely low. Uh hantavirus outbreaks have been around for a long time. They're rare. They never spread. So, that would be a very unusual feature that the virus had somehow acquired in its jump to humans uh in this one specific case had acquired new mutations. Usually, the acquisition of kind of the adaptation to a new host, which is what we're talking about, um cuz the host is a rodent classically. >> Mhm. Um adaptation to a human host would uh typically involve a series of these infectious events in which a the virus is uh gradually adapting to the new host. And uh that that just doesn't fit the timeline here. Here, what we have is something that uh fits the pattern, frankly, of either these this couple was uh really good at uh maybe they were maybe they were from uh the Mediterranean, and they just like to kiss people. Uh or maybe they uh were actively involved maybe the cruise ship had uh buffets. Uh and this particular couple was uh sloppy about uh um moving food back and forth. Who knows? Uh but uh eight infected people on a large boat uh does not sound like a uh human adapted respiratory transmitted virus to me. Another for that's a valid point. Eight people on a massive cruise ship is still a relatively small number, but it's it's also it's So, in again, very limited research, it's not that small of a number, and the explanation was but because they were all together constrained on the cruise ship, that's why it spread faster, cuz usually spreads slower than that from what I understand. But then I I have a a counterpoint is that the odds of what happened with COVID the COVID the coronavirus the transmission from from what I understand that was a leak leak out of a lab I could be forgot, but there's other viruses where the transmission rate is really low. What is the risk of let's put this one aside maybe in this one, but what is the risk of we have something like COVID that ends up spreading globally. Is that something that the world should be concerned about that it may happen? And what what would you give it as a probability of something like a mix of hantavirus that we're talking about now with a 50% or more fatality rate based on the numbers from the cruise ship but spreading as quickly as something like COVID. Uh very unlikely. So, what happened with COVID was frankly an intentional engineering of a pathogen to make it more human infectious. And that was a concerted you know, gain of function research program. And we're still not to the bottom of that. Uh it it involved an international collaboration that among others uh involved the United States uh certain academics at UC Davis and University of North Carolina. And the Wuhan Institute of Virology funded by USAID and other organizations. Uh including the DOD. So, that's that's what happened there. And they specifically were engineering a virus to become more infectious in humans. That is a difficult thing to do in terms of natural evolution. Now, an example where it did break out a virus did break out in recent history was the West African Ebola outbreak. Typically Ebola is so highly pathogenic, which this virus is also. Um uh Ebola is so highly pathogenic that it would cross over from uh typically bats or bat feces, so kind of again similar, you could think of bats as flying rats or mice. Um uh and and uh you know, the child is playing in a hollow tree and and gets ex- that kind of thing or in the cave or whatever. Gets exposed, brings it back to their local village. It spreads in that local village and it's so infectious that pretty much everybody dies out in these small isolated villages. What happened in the West African outbreak was paradoxically that it the virus was uh transported probably by some poor soul uh into a major urban center. And then when that happened, what's the situation with Ebola virus is that people uh actually have a lot of virus on their skin and surfaces. And it's highly infectious. And if you touch somebody, let alone um get a body fluid contact, but you can touch the skin and get infected with Ebola virus. And unfortunately, the practice in West Africa, the dominant cultural practice is when somebody passes they have a wake and the cada- the body is left lying in state and then the family and friends come around in the wake. They cry and they touch the body, etc. Well, the body is still covered with infectious uh Ebola virus. And that's why it took off. And once it was in those urban centers then what happened was that it did seem to adapt to becoming uh more endemic uh and start to infect tissue areas, uh the eyes. Um it uh adapted to uh basically hide. Uh the eye is a privileged immuno-privileged uh compartment. Uh and you ended up with people who had kind of chronic low-level Ebola virus infection, and that's a real setup for eventual adaptation of Ebola virus to become more of a human pathogen and so forth instead of a bat pathogen. In this case with Hanta virus, we have no evidence of anything like that currently. Uh it's always possible. Uh it could well be that uh when the dust settles on all this, uh no pun intended having to do with rodent feces, uh but when the dust settles, it could be that uh we do have a problem here, and you've got a virus that's more able to jump from person to person than the parental strain. >> What would be the What numbers What numbers do you need to see to worry that, "Okay, this could be something concerning." We have right now eight cases. >> to see not so much as numbers, but evidence of a prolonged transmission chain. So, if you see it go from, for instance, this index couple, that's why you do index tracing, by the way, in epidemiology. Uh if you see it it's it's clearly we have an index case, or it appears with this couple. Uh they and let's just accept the approved narrative that they went to some place that uh had had uh rodent feces or detritus. And they got infected, and they brought it back in the boat. Now, if you if you were to do contact tracing, and I'm sure they're doing it right now, and you found out that um there are people that were in close contact with that couple, uh that uh got infected, okay? So, that's first-degree transmission. Now, what you want to see, if you want to really get yourself worked up, is you want to see those people that got infected from the index cases transmitting it to other parties, third parties, okay? So, if you see that evidence of kind of a a spread in which you have a chain, [clears throat] a sustained chain of infection. Uh even if it's just a small number of individuals, but if you see evidence through contact tracing of a sustained chain of transmission, that's the signal that you want to pay attention to, and that suggests that there has been adaptation. Unless you can clearly demonstrate that those people, the secondary contacts, uh also were engaged in, I don't know, you know, whatever body fluid exchange might have been involved, uh or they all happened to eat at the same, you know, table or or whatever, you know, if you can establish physical link, then that's that's a uh uh that frankly that would be comforting. Uh doctor, I just realized while we're speaking, I remember the hours of spaces I would do on COVID and understanding COVID, and then we started getting the reports and revelations and more evidence of it leaking from the Wuhan lab. And it's just it's clicked in my head. I'm like, "Wow, the world has really forgotten of the atrocities and the craziness of what happened just a few years ago. And just moved on like it's become the normal. First, that is terrifying. >> uh Senator Johnson >> are so vocal about it. Yeah, Senator Johnson was uh speaking >> to him 2 days ago. Yeah. I spoke to him a few days ago on the internet on the show. his hearings about what went on at FDA with Anna Sachman. What's not generally known is that Anna Sachman and myself and Bill DeMichele were in a uh group uh that uh and there's two others uh that I'm not going to name right now, ex-FDA employees. They both retired. Uh we're in a uh group that was meeting weekly uh between 2020 and 2023. I have hundreds of emails from them including a lot of the documentation that uh the senator is talking about concerning this masking problem. Uh absolutely, there was a concerted effort to uh suppress uh key information about risks and adverse events at the FDA and at the CDC. That's one of the things that I found most disgusting during my time working as the vice chair at the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices at the CDC that was uh then dissolved under court order. But um uh the there the people that are responsible for covering up this information and withholding it from the government and from the public uh are still there. Um and uh those that have left are still around. Um Peter Marks, who was a central figure, is uh working of course in the pharmaceutical industry right now and still very active. Uh so I've I've had people come down and I'm not going to name names, but uh folks that were working at very high levels at the FDA uh come down here to the farm. I'm currently that's my my my broadcast studio here is on my farm and it's an old pig barn just in case you were wondering. Uh um hence the open beam and etc. etc. But uh uh we got rid of the pig poop and and I don't think there's any mouse poop right now, but I did see a deer mouse, so I got to be concerned about >> [laughter] >> Um you said the question I want to ask you though doctor is um the leak from a lab and the research that was that was being worked on that led to that leak. That does that still continue? >> [gasps] >> Uh I don't know whether Wuhan Institute of Virology is still doing uh coronavirus >> gain of function research. Uh I Ralph Baric at UNC, this has been his main focus most of his career. I doubt that that has stopped. Uh and they we are we there's been attempts to force disclosure of uh Ralph Baric's research notes uh from the University of North Carolina and that has been blocked by uh the judges in North Carolina. So, uh this is a kind of a chronic problem and I've been investigating uh in in support of uh a presidential initiative having to do with applying artificial intelligence to uh validation of the Biological Warfare Convention compliance. And uh so I've been investigating um various outbreaks. Like for instance, there was a recent uh very odd outbreak of African swine fever in Spain right next to a USDA-funded research facility that is doing gain of function research on African swine fever. Uh and uh for some reason uh the wild hogs around that facility suddenly started dying off and they had African swine fever, which is highly unusual. That's crazy. >> when they went and investigated this uh and got viral samples uh um the courts in Spain uh made a determination because of course this would be an international scandal uh and was already uh, really compromising the pork industry in Spain. Uh, you know, China blocked uh, Spanish pork from coming in. Uh, so the courts made a determination that no, no, no. Uh, the fact that all these wild hogs were dying right around that particular facility was coincidental. Uh, and uh, oh, by the way, the viral sequencing data that would allow one to make your own judgment about whether that was coincidental has been embargoed for 10 years. Uh, um, you know, that it just doesn't stop. There's certain patterns of behavior uh, that happen again and again with with these kinds of outbreaks where the uh, the government uh, in the host country typically kind of circles the wagons and denies what happened. Uh, and blocks anybody from getting data that might contradict their official storyline. Do you worry, as a final question, do you worry we could have a a similar leak to COVID again as that research continues? We could have a Right now uh, all of us, quite literally, have uh, natural immunity to SARS-CoV-2. And I think it's uh, it's un- we we did already, by the way, have natural immunity against beta coronaviruses which are related but distinct. Uh, and that's probably a big reason why this uh, SARS-CoV-2 was not more lethal than it turns out it actually was. You know, we were scared we you know, the modeling suggested oh, we're all going to die or three out of 100 of us were going to die or whatever the number was. That turned out to be all more fear-porn. Um, so at this point that virus and uh, related viruses we all pretty much have a pretty robust immunity. Frankly, my titers are through the roof. Um uh and that probably has to do with me having stupidly accepted these RNA vaccines, but that's another story. So, I I don't think that's a huge risk, but gain of function research is a risk. There's no doubt about it. And uh I strongly support the president's position that there should be a an international treaty negotiated that bans gain of function research. Agree. Agree. Well, uh Dr., it's always a pleasure to have you on the show. It's been a very long time. Um hopefully I hopefully I won't have to have you again, cuz that would be really really bad news. >> [laughter] >> But I've I've been appointed to the UN uh um council for investigating uh breaches of the biological warfare convention. And uh when people ask me about that, I say, "I hope I never have to do that job." >> [laughter] >> Agree. Agree. Uh but it's you know, again, never really had the chance to thank you for what you did during COVID. And the you know, you continued fight despite all the attacks that you faced back then or the criticism that you faced. People have forgotten that. Um and uh thank you for still being vocal. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you, Mario. Uh so, uh you know, God bless you and all of us. >> [laughter] >> Thank you. Let's let's stay uh focused and balanced and and >> rat poop. And and avoid avoid rat poop and uh try to be immune to the uh press and its willingness to try to scare us all in order to sell clicks, likes, and follows. >> Well, we've got we've got people like you. I got the clicks to this video, so you tell them all to not worry about this video and other videos like it. >> [laughter] >> Thank you, Robert. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Um All right, everyone. I'm uh uh Robert is someone I haven't spoken to him in a long time, but he's you know, he's the best person to explain this for us. As we saw the news I'm about I saw the news this morning. I saw it my team posted it, tweeted it on my account. Now, I read it and I kind of dismissed it. I'm dealing with all the Iran drama, but I read it and I was like, "Oh, that's interesting." Um and then I saw that the ship is not docking. And I'm going through you guys might have seen me live. I was going through my calendar see what interviews I have and I see Robert Malone. I kind of huh, I know Robert Malone. He's on my show. That's nothing to do with Iran. And I click on it and I see hantavirus on my calendar. Then I realized my team um got an interview to discuss it. Um so, yeah, and I think he's educated us really well. I hope you enjoyed it. Let me know if you want me to do more interviews uh on topics like this instead of just focusing on war and geopolitics. But otherwise, I'll be going live again in exactly 13 minutes with our regular Larry Johnson to talk about the Iran war. There's some developments that just happened there while the doctor was speaking. All right, everyone. I'll see