DIGITALLY RECORDED

1 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL MARCH 21, 2022 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00112538 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00112539 3 1 MR. : This is Special Agent 2 The recorder is now on. My name is 3 . I'm a Special Agent with the 4 U.S. Department of Justice Office of the 5 Inspector General New York Field Office and 6 these are my credentials. I don't know if you 7 can see it, Mr. . 8 MR. : I could see. 9 MR. : Okay. This interview with 10 former Federal Bureau of Prisons employee 11 is being conducted as part of an 12 official U.S. Department of Justice Office of 13 the Inspector General investigation. Today's 14 date is March 21, 2022. The time is 11:08 a.m. 15 This interview is being conducted via Zoom 16 videoconferencing as, Mr. , you're 17 currently in Kentucky; is that accurate? 18 MR. : Correct. 19 MR. : Also present is DOJ/OIG 20 Assistant Special Agent in Charge 21 . This interview will be recorded by 22 me, Special Agent . Could 23 everyone please identify themselves for the 24 record and spell your last name? To start 25 again, I am DOJ/OIG Special Agent EFTA00112540 4 1 . That's 2 MR. : I am Assistant Special 3 Agent in Charge with the 4 DOJ/OIG, , and these are my 5 credentials. 6 MR. : Received. 7 MR. : Mr. , can you please 8 identify yourself and spell your last name for 9 the record? 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. : Yeah, my name is . I am a Junior on some documents, and I am a former employee of the DOJ Federal Bureau of Prisons and particular to this matter MCC New York. MR. : Thank you. This is an official DOJ/OIG investigation into the events surrounding the death of Inmate Jeffrey Epstein and you're being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ/OIG? MR. : Yes. MR. : Just for the record I did email you two forms prior to this interview, one was OIG Form 3-226-2, that is the Warnings and Assurances. And the other form is OIG Form EFTA00112541 5 1 3-226/10A, which would be the Non-Disclosure 2 Agreement, and you signed - you read both of 3 them, signed them, but for the record I'm going 4 to read them to you and let's start off with 5 the Warnings and Assurances form. 6 The United - the form states: The United 7 States Department of Justice Office of 8 Inspector General Warnings and Assurances to 9 Employee Requested to Provide Information on a 10 Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to 11 provide information as part of an investigation 12 being conducted by the Office of the Inspector 13 General. 14 This investigation is being conducted 15 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978 16 as amended. This investigation pertains to job 17 performance failure and security failure. This 18 is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do 19 not have to answer questions. No disciplinary 20 action will be taken against you if you choose 21 not to answer questions. Any statement you 22 wish to - you furnish may be used as evidence 23 in any future criminal proceedings or agency 24 disciplinary proceeding or both. 25 The waiver states I understand the EFTA00112542 6 1 warnings and assurances stated above and I am 2 willing to make a statement and answer 3 questions. No promises or threats have been 4 made to and no pressure or coercion of any kind 5 has been used against me. 6 Mr. , you've read the form? 7 MR. : Yes, I have. 8 MR. : You understand the form and 9 you agree to move forward with the interview? 10 MR. : Yes, I do. 11 MR. : And you've already signed the 12 form and you sent it back to me and myself and 13 -- 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. : Correct. MR. : -- ASAC will sign the document after the interview. The second form states: Department of Justice Office of Inspector General Non-Disclosure Agreement. I, , understand that the Department of Justice Office of Inspector General OIG will allow me to review certain documents in connection with my remote interview with the OIG on March 21, 2022, in order to facilitate that remote interview. A copy of the documents shown to me during my interview with the OIG EFTA00112543 7 1 labeled OIG Documents will be made part of the 2 OIG record of that interview. 3 As a condition of being granted access to 4 review the OIG interview documents, I agree not 5 to make an audio or video recording of the 6 interview, excuse me, and I also agree that 7 until the OIG's final report or a summary of 8 the final report is released to the public I 9 will not copy, photograph, discuss, or disclose 10 any information from or about the OIG interview 11 documents I review to anyone other than the 12 OIG, my attorney if I have legal counsel who 13 also executes a non-disclosure agreement with 14 terms similar to this agreement, or other 15 specifically authorized by the OIG after any 16 such person executes a non-disclosure agreement 17 with terms similar to this agreement. 18 I further agree that even after the OIG's 19 final report or a summary of the final report 20 is released to the public I will not discuss or 21 disclose any information from or about the OIG 22 interview documents that are not contained in 23 or that are redacted from the publicly released 24 final report or summary of the final report. 25 These provisions are consistent with and EFTA00112544 8 1 do not supersede, conflict with, or otherwise 2 alter the employee obligations, rights, or 3 liabilities created by existing statute or 4 Executive order relating to (1) classified 5 information, (2) communications to Congress, 6 (3) the reporting to an Inspector General or 7 the office of special counsel of a violation of 8 any law, rule, or regulation, or mismanagement, 9 a gross waste of funds, an abuse of authority, 10 or a substantial and specific danger to public 11 health or safety, or (4) any other 12 whistleblower protection. The definitions, 13 requirements, obligations, rights, sanctions, 14 and liabilities created by controlling 15 Executive order and statutory provisions are 16 incorporate into this agreement and are 17 controlling. 18 Mr. , do you understand that non- 19 disclosure order? 20 MR. : I do. 21 MR. : And you already read the 22 document, you signed it, and you've dated it. 23 Thank you for that. 24 MR. : You're welcome. 25 MR. : Before I start the interview EFTA00112545 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 MR. : What is your date of birth? 17 MR. : 11/17/1974. 18 MR. : And what's your Social 19 Security Number? 20 MR. •. . 21 MR. : Thank you. What is your 22 current cellphone number? 23 MR. : Area code-. 24 MR. : Okay. What's your current 25 what's your highest level of education? 9 I would like to place you under oath. Mr. can you please raise your right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? MR. : I do. MR. : Thank you. You can put your hand down. Please let me know if you do not - if you don't understand any questions and I'll try to repeat it or rephrase it for you. MR. : Sure. MR. : So we'll start with your background. What is your current home address? MR. : My current home address is and that's in EFTA00112546 10 1 MR. : Currently in college still 2 pursuing a bachelor's degree. 3 MR. : Which college? 4 MR. : Probably about a semester ago 5 I was in Champlain College all online out of 6 Burlington, Vermont, and I just recently 7 transferred Gateway Community Technical College 8 right here in my hometown of Kentucky. 9 MR. : And what are you pursuing 10 your bachelor's degree in? 11 MR. : Liberal arts, yeah. 12 MR. : Do you have an associate's 13 degree? 14 MR. : Credit wise, yes, but 15 formerly, no. 16 MR. : And what did you do prior to 17 working for the BOP? 18 MR. : Prior to the BOP I was a 19 truck driver delivering fuel, oil, and stuff 20 like that. And prior to that I was down in 21 North Carolina where I was a correctional 22 officer for the State of North Carolina, which 23 is what got me my job into the BOP, my 24 experience. 25 MR. : Okay. So from - since high EFTA00112547 11 1 school - from high school you started working 2 for the North Carolina BOP or did you do other 3 jobs before that? 4 MR. : Oh, from high school I --. 5 MR. : Various jobs? 6 MR. : Man of many - I - man of many 7 trades. I can't even count how many jobs I've 8 had, but my main career out of everything was 9 truck driving. I was pretty much a truck 10 driver. I drove all kinds of trucks and stuff 11 like that. Then when I met my current wife 12 back in '08 we had moved to North Carolina to 13 be by her family and that's when I acquired a 14 job with the North Carolina Department of 15 Corrections, and then I was down there for two 16 years and did that. 17 We moved back to New York, which is where 18 I went back to driving truck again while I was 19 in the hiring process for the Bureau of 20 Prisons. And then I ended up getting hired 21 with the Bureau of Prisons in November of 2011, 22 and I started at MDC Brooklyn. 23 MR. : How long were you at MDC 24 Brooklyn for? 25 MR. : Right around two years and EFTA00112548 12 1 then I transferred down to FCI Estill in South 2 Carolina, and I was there for about two years 3 or so, got promoted to General Foreman and 4 transferred out to FCC Hazelton, which is a 5 complex out in West Virginia, Bruceton Mills, 6 and I did a little over a year there and came 7 out to MCC New York in December of 2016 is when 8 I got to New York. 9 MR. : Was that your first --? 10 MR. : Basically, worked - what's 11 that? 12 MR. : Sorry. Was that your first 13 time at MCC? 14 MR. : Yes. Yep. 15 MR. : Okay. Go ahead. 16 MR. : I worked at all three - the 17 worst three prisons in the Bureau of Prisons. 18 MR. : So with the BOP, once you got 19 to MCC in 2016 is that where you spent the rest 20 of your career with BOP at MCC? 21 MR. : It was. I was there - I got 22 there in December of 2016, I think it was right 23 before Christmas and my last day on the job was 24 Valentine's Day of 2019. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00112549 13 : And I was there for that of time as a General Foreman. : You --. : Now was that February 14, That's correct. : Okay. Thank you. Yeah. 9 : Do you recall your EOD date 10 BOP, exact date by any chance? 11 : Yeah, November 6, 2011. 12 : Okay. And when did you 13 from BOP training? 14 : I would have to look that up. 15 : It's okay. If you don't 16 it, don't worry about that. We just - 17 it's generic question we ask. 18 MR. : I was there for Super Bowl, 19 so if I got hired in November and I was in 20 Glynco for Super Bowl, I would say it had to 21 have been February of '20. No, I'm sorry, '12, 22 2012, yeah. 23 MR. : So when you started with the 24 MCC you said you were a general foreman and 25 that was your position up until when you 1 MR. 2 amount 3 MR. 4 MR. 5 2019? 6 MR. 7 MR. 8 MR. MR. with the MR. MR. graduate MR. MR. remember EFTA00112550 14 1 separated from the MCC in February 14, 2019? 2 MR. : Correct. 3 MR. : Okay. And what is your - 4 after you left MCC, what is your current title 5 and what agency do you work for? 6 MR. : I currently work for the 7 General Services Administration Public Building 8 Services, and I am a Building Manager. 9 MR. : Okay. While you were at the 10 MCC as a general foreman, was that your title 11 in 2018 and 2019? 12 MR. : General foreman was the 13 internal kind of phrase. I think the position 14 title officially OPM was Maintenance Mechanic 15 Supervisor. 16 MR. : Hold on, let me write that. 17 MR. : And I was WS-4749, Grade 14, 18 Step Five. 19 MR. : So official title is 20 Maintenance Mechanic Supervisor? 21 MR. : Correct. 22 MR. : And who did you report to? 23 MR. : The facility manager. 24 MR. : Who was the facility manager 25 at that point? EFTA00112551 15 1 MR. -. . . 2 MR. : And when did Mr. - my 3 understanding is Mr. retired from MCC. 4 When did he - according to your recollection, 5 when did he retire from the MCC? 6 MR. : I would probably have to say 7 - I don't know the exact dates because his exit 8 was kind of unique. He didn't actually 9 initially retire; he went out on some kind of 10 other type of leave and eventually it's to my 11 understanding he ended up retiring. But when 12 he had went out all communication stopped with 13 everybody with him. Nobody - he never kept in 14 touch with anybody. He never reached out. But 15 16 MR. : When was that? 17 MR. : -- I really don't know what - 18 hey, I don't know his exact date, but I would 19 probably want to say that I was there for 20 almost maybe just under or right around or 21 another year after he had left. I don't think 22 it was that much because there was several 23 other people locally that had filled in 24 including me for his position. 25 MR. : So you recall that other EFTA00112552 16 1 people filled in his position while he was gone 2 while you were still there? 3 MR. : Correct. 4 MR. : Okay. So do you believe he 5 left in 2019 or 2018? 6 MR. : I really honestly couldn't 7 tell you. I do remember --. 8 MR. : I think what is 9 trying to ask is not his official retirement 10 date but around when did he leave the MCC and 11 communication with him stopped. I think you 12 said -- 13 MR. : Yes. 14 MR. : -- it was approximately a 15 year before you left? 16 MR. : Yeah. The only thing I can 17 tell you - I don't really know the dates. The 18 only thing I know from what I recall is Mr. 19 had just went to Denver, Colorado, for 20 some kind of facilities manager conference 21 training and he had never returned back to the 22 institution once he went to that training or 23 conference or whatever it was. It had 24 something to do with facility managers all 25 going out there. And all I know is that when EFTA00112553 17 1 he went out there, he went there for a week or 2 so, and he never returned to the institution 3 after that. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MR. : It was . 6 MR. : Do you know why he left, 7 what happened? 8 MR. : I have no idea. I have no 9 idea. I couldn't tell you. I mean, there was 10 a lot of rumors, but I just know that when he 11 went to that training, it was like he went home 12 after that. He never came back to the 13 institution or that conference, whatever. 14 MR. : Now, do you know if it 15 was personal reasons, medical, or 16 administrative? 17 MR. : I have no idea why he didn't 18 come back although he did make medical issues 19 known to us on the job, that he had some 20 medical issues. 21 MR. : Okay. And you said a few 22 people filled in the position. So his title 23 you said was Facility Manager, right? And 24 what, was he your direct supervisor? 25 MR. : He was, yep. EFTA00112554 18 1 MR. : Okay. And who does the 2 facility manager report to? 3 MR. : The Associate Warden of 4 Operations. 5 MR. : And who was Associate Warden 6 of Operations in end of 2018 if you recall? 7 MR. : So we had three in the time 8 that I was there, and I believe worked 9 under all three of them. So there was 10 , , and then the last 11 one that was there prior to me leaving was 12 or . They called him 13 but I believe his real name was . 14 MR. •. , okay. 15 MR. : All three of them had 16 performed - they were the AWO they call it, AW 17 of Operations, which oversaw the Facilities 18 Department, and that's who the facility manager 19 directly reported to. 20 MR. : Okay. And when Mr. 21 left the MCC and that's not when he retired, 22 let me clarify this, this is when he stepped 23 away for leave purposes, do you recall who took 24 over for him initially? 25 MR. : Yeah. So the warden at the EFTA00112555 19 1 time which I can't remember which one it was 2 because there was so much staff that came and 3 went throughout this whole thing, that one time 4 it was the executive assistant who was told to 5 oversee the department, and then at another 6 time the AW oversaw the department. 7 MR. : When you say "executive 8 assistant" -- 9 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:17:56) . 10 MR. : -- who was that? 11 MR. • 12 MR. : So he oversaw it for a little 13 bit? 14 MR. : He did, yes. 15 MR. : Okay. And then who was the 16 next person? 17 MR. 18 . He was told to oversee it. And then 19 there was a little bit of a stint where, you 20 know, I could just informally absorbed a lot of 21 his job duties just to get the department 22 functioning, but I was never actually promoted 23 or paid or anything like that that actually - I 24 was never formally designated as acting or 25 anything like that, I just had to do some of EFTA00112556 20 1 the facility manager functions in order to have 2 the department operational. 3 So I would get my go-ahead for - to do 4 those functions. They would - they oversaw it 5 or approved by either or 6 at the time. 7 MR. : So they gave you the go-ahead 8 and you went ahead and completed the functions. 9 Do you recall when exactly this time period was 10 when you acted? 11 MR. : I wasn't really designate - 12 I wasn't really acting, I was just - if I had 13 to do - if I had to get something done that a 14 facility manager would normally have to do, I 15 would just go to the - whatever time period it 16 was, if was over the department or 17 if was over the department, I would 18 have to go to them and say, "Hey, listen, can I 19 go ahead and do this? Can you give me the 20 approval, sign off on it?" and then I would 21 actually do the act. 22 MR. : Okay. Bear with me a second. 23 Let's see. Maybe this might help -- I have a 24 SigNet contract here, right? And it's multiple 25 questions will be on the SigNet contract -- EFTA00112557 21 1 MR. : Yeah. 2 MR. : -- and bear with me. I'm 3 going to see if I can share my screen here. 4 This document that I'm showing you, can you see 5 it? 6 MR. : No. 7 MR. : Why is this - how about now? 8 MR. : I got something coming up. 9 Yep, I could see it. 10 MR. : Okay. So this document that 11 I'm showing you is - it says, "MCC New York." 12 It says, "Solicitation Contract Order for 13 Commercial Items Offered to Complete Blocks 12, 14 17, 23, 24, and 30." 15 MR. : Yep. 16 MR. : And it says, "Requisition 17 Number 1064-18." 18 MR. : Yep. 19 MR. : This is just for the record. 20 I'm just reading it, just the top part, so we 21 know which document this is. The Contract 22 Number states GS-07F as in Frank -0322T, and the 23 Award Effective Date is 09/21/2018. Do you 24 recall -- 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00112558 22 1 MR. : -- this document at all? 2 MR. : I don't see that document, 3 no. 4 MR. : See over here. 5 MR. : But it's not under the 6 facility manager one. I don't recall ever 7 putting my eyes on the document. 8 MR. : This is part - Section 15. 9 You see over here? 10 MR. : Correct. 11 MR. : And it's - it's says 12 "Delivered to Federal Bureau of Prisons MCC New 13 York" and lists you as a point of contact. 14 MR. : Correct. 15 MR. : Now, if we scroll down a bit. 16 MR. : Uh-huh. 17 MR. : We're going to scroll down to 18 Page 6 on this document. 19 MR. : Correct. 20 MR. : It lists you as the 21 facilities manager. Does this jog your memory 22 at all? 23 MR. : I do. I was always - when 24 had left, I was pretty much assumed the 25 facilities manager. Like I said, I was never EFTA00112559 23 1 formally promoted or even temporarily entered 2 that position, nor was I ever designated as 3 acting. So the fact that that says facility 4 manager, I don't know why or who put that there 5 because I was always a general foreman. I was 6 never, ever in the role of a facility or with 7 full title, whether temporary or permanent, was 8 never a facility manager. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. : 11 MR. : 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. : I was never even formally designated as acting, they just pretty much said, "There's no facility manager, Jeff is next in the chain of command," so they just referred to me as it. That's what I'm assuming whoever typed this up. MR. : I know it's been about three, four years. I know it's kind of tough remembering some of this stuff, that's why we trying to pull - we try to pull documents where we believe it could help you. MR. : Right. MR. : I know we have an email. I don't know if this will help a little bit too. EFTA00112560 24 1 This email right here, it says "Regarding 2 forward cameras from to Anthony 3 Pedone." Who is that? 4 MR. : He was, I believe, the 5 supervisor of the SIS Department at the time. 6 MR. : And was --. 7 MR. : He was like the lead SIS 8 investigator. 9 MR. : Okay. And then we have 10 , who is that? 11 MR. : He was a communications 12 technician that I supervised in the Facilities 13 Department. 14 MR. : And we have . Was 15 that the executive assistant that you mentioned 16 before? 17 MR. : Oh, correct, yep. 18 MR. : And this is dated January 4, 19 2019. 20 MR. : Correct, yep. 21 MR. : And we'll go through the 22 email, but it says on the bottom, it says 23 . Is that - that's your signature, CESCO 24 General Foreman -Acting Facility Manager? 25 MR. : Correct. EFTA00112561 25 1 MR. : So I know this is in January 2 4th. I know you mentioned you were always under 3 the title of General Foreman, but you were also 4 not officially acting, but you were still doing 5 the job. Does that help at all jog your 6 memory? 7 MR. : Right. So an email went out 8 by the AW telling all the department heads that 9 when had left that I would be running 10 the Facilities Department until a replacement 11 was found, hence why I would assume the acting 12 part went into my signature line. 13 MR. : Got it. And do you know when 14 this email went out? 15 MR. : That looks like a month 16 before I left according to the date. 17 MR. : No, no, I meant - you said 18 there was an email that went out saying - from 19 the AW saying that you would be acting --. 20 MR. : Oh. Oh, yeah, I don't - I 21 couldn't - it'd have to have been - it was 22 shortly after - it might have even been from 23 the warden if I'm not mistaken, which was 24 , because I remember whatever happened 25 with down in Colorado and why he didn't EFTA00112562 26 1 come back I remember that the Warden 2 was very, very upset with whatever was going 3 on, and I just remember somebody, I can't 4 recall exactly who - came down to the 5 office, to my office, and spoke to me 6 personally and told me that he would like me to 7 just hold things down until they figure out 8 things, what was going to happen with , 9 and see what was going to happen. 10 And then I remember an email going out 11 telling all department heads that I would be - 12 to see me for any facilities -related issues -- 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. : -- because was no 15 longer there. 16 MR. : Okay. So according to this 17 you were acting facility manager, but you were 18 general foreman, but you were acting at this 19 point. And so, on record is it possible from 20 the time that when Warden assigned you the 21 title to when you left were you the acting 22 facilities manager - facility manager? 23 MR. : So I don't - I would - 24 definitely not up until the time I left because 25 there was some butting of heads between me and EFTA00112563 27 1 and at times where they 2 overrode a lot of decisions that I made that 3 I'm normally supposed to make underneath my 4 title. So -- 5 MR. : Can you give us an example? 6 MR. : -- at the very, very end I 7 believe at the time was running the 8 department for the most part at the time that I 9 left. So it wasn't the whole entire time, it 10 was very sporadic. It was just constant change 11 of roles and responsibilities and - but I was 12 definitely at one point - like I said, it was 13 like a - it was just like an informal internal, 14 "Hey, this is . He's going to be the 15 facility manager until we figure out what's 16 going on," and they fill the position, which 17 they had not since I walked out the door. 18 MR. : So basically - my 19 understanding from what you're saying is on --. 20 MR. : But I guess what you would 21 say is during this time period I would be the 22 guy who would have - if anybody had any 23 questions or concerns involving this contract, 24 they would had to have I guess come to me, 25 yeah. EFTA00112564 28 1 MR. : Okay. Now, do you remember - 2 I know you mentioned that the previously. Tell 3 me, do you recall if there was an update or 4 upgrade of the camera system going on in - at 5 the MCC in 2018 or '19? 6 MR. : Prior to this right here? 7 MR. : Well, ignore this document 8 for a second. Give me - hold on, let me see. 9 We'll come back to that document. Do you 10 recall in general was there an upgrade 11 happening at the MCC for the camera system? 12 MR. : There was an upgrade that 13 started with 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. : There was - from what I 16 understand there was camera issues well - going 17 way back well before I even got there, long 18 before even got there. They had 19 recorder and decoder issues. There was a whole 20 slew of things and I would assume - I would 21 imagine it was probably due to the age of the 22 institution and there was very little 23 infrastructure upgrades and updating and stuff 24 like that. But I remember prior to, you know, 25 me inheriting what started, there was EFTA00112565 29 1 all kind of issues with the cameras from what I 2 heard from internal communications and stuff 3 like that. 4 So started this program, this 5 project, at the request of higherups. I don't 6 really know the backdrop on that, that was in 7 between them. And then I really did not get 8 involved with it at all until he never came 9 back to work. He dropped off and then I just 10 picked up after him. 11 MR. : I kind of missed a key point 12 I wanted to ask. So as a - can you 13 differentiate the job duties between a facility 14 manager and the general foreman? 15 MR. : So basically, the facility 16 manager they keep track of the budget. They 17 authorize expenditures. They obviously 18 supervise me, and then I in turn supervise the 19 subordinate staff, the wage grade trade guys. 20 But basically, he handled the approval of 21 projects, you know, submitted approvals for 22 projects. He did, like, the five- and 10-year 23 plans for the facility, authorized all the 24 expenditures. He went ahead and sat in on all 25 the department head meetings to give executive EFTA00112566 30 1 staff briefings on what's going on in the 2 department, progress reports, stuff like that. 3 Listen to any concerns that they would have and 4 then he brings it back to us. 5 And in my job, my main job by title is 6 literally - I was in charge of supervising, 7 monitoring, and then the wage grade guys that 8 were below me because I was also wage grade. 9 The facility manager is a GS employee. I was a 10 WS employee just like the rest of the trade 11 guys. And my job was basically to supervise 12 them guys, assign them work, make sure they 13 were coming and going in the facility with the 14 inmates, make sure that they were handling 15 their tools and all that other stuff. I did 16 their performance evaluations and all that 17 other stuff. And the facility manager pretty 18 much did all that on me. 19 So he was my supervisor. He would 20 evaluate me, you know, keep track of my time 21 and all that other stuff. And that's pretty 22 much it. 23 MR. : Who were some of the 24 employees that reported to you? You said the 25 wage employees. Who were the employees that EFTA00112567 31 1 reported to you? 2 MR. : In the Facility Department it 3 was the trade specific wage guys, so you had 4 the communications technicians, engineering 5 technicians, carpenters, plumbers, 6 electricians, HVAC guys. And then each one of 7 those tradesmen have a cadre of inmates that 8 work for them, so I would go ahead - work 9 orders would come in from all departments, you 10 know, requests, "Hey, can you change a light 11 bulb? Can you unclog the toilet here?" I 12 would give that work order to the appropriate 13 trade guy and then he would take his group of 14 inmates and go out into the institution and fix 15 it and close out the work order, report back to 16 me. 17 MR. : Okay. Agent any 18 questions on that before I move forward with 19 the contracts? 20 MR. : Yes, I'm just writing 21 down some follow-up questions. So just - can 22 you just clarify again, when were you actually 23 the acting facilities manager? 24 MR. : It was whenever they wanted 25 me to be basically. It was sporadic and on and EFTA00112568 32 1 off, so --. 2 MR. : Yeah. I got it. You 3 said, like, when or departed 4 they put out an email and then we saw an email 5 that was from January of 2019 that said that 6 you were acting facilities manager but then you 7 said you weren't. 8 MR. : Well, it was in my signature 9 line the acting facility manager, so I think it 10 was just never - I think I rolled with that 11 since left. I think that acting part 12 just stayed in the signature line. But there 13 was -- 14 MR. : After they made the 15 notification that you were the acting facility 16 manager, did they ever tell you that you were 17 not the acting facility manager? 18 MR. : Yeah, that's why I was saying 19 it was - I bumped heads with executive staff 20 sometimes because I thought a lot of the 21 decisions that they were making weren't in the 22 best interest of the facility at the time. And 23 when I say that I mean, like, infrastructure 24 stuff, you know. And I kind of like - they 25 didn't like the way I prioritized certain EFTA00112569 33 1 things within the department. 2 So there was some conflicts every now and 3 again and that's why the warden would go ahead 4 and say, "Okay. Hey, III, you know what, 5 you're overseeing the Facilities Department 6 now. Have report to you." And then they 7 also did the same thing with at one 8 point where he came in, which was right around 9 the thing and where he was told that he 10 was going to go ahead and - so they were like 11 dual role. They were pretty much - your 12 executive assistant and the facility manager 13 and then your AWO and the facility manager. 14 MR. : So were you still the 15 acting facility manager and they were just 16 overseeing what you were doing to make sure 17 that in your acting capacity you're doing it 18 right? Or they -- 19 MR. : That's up to interpretation. 20 I didn't have any decision -making power. It 21 had to all go through them -- 22 MR. : But --. 23 MR. : -- while (Indiscernible 24 *00:34:33) . 25 MR. : But at least in your EFTA00112570 34 1 signature line you maintained the acting 2 facility manager? 3 MR. : I guess. I guess I just 4 never took it out, yeah. But --. 5 MR. : But was there ever 6 anything official that went out, like there was 7 an official email saying you're the acting 8 facility manager. Was there ever anything that 9 said you're no longer the acting facility 10 manager or - you know what I'm saying, like --? 11 MR. : Yeah, no, not to my knowledge 12 there was - because there was talks because 13 they were dragging on the hiring of a 14 replacement facility manager because 15 case, whatever he had going on on his personal 16 side with the Bureau they couldn't fill the job 17 until they finalized what was happening with 18 him. They needed like, I guess, an end date or 19 something like that. They needed to know when 20 was falling off the books in order for 21 them to re-post the job. 22 So there was never - it went on for so 23 long. Like I said, it was from the point that 24 I had walked out the door there in February of 25 '19 there was still no facility manager there. EFTA00112571 35 1 And I also know at the time that I walked out I 2 may have not took the word "acting" out of my 3 signature line, but I know I wasn't acting at 4 that time that I had left per se. 5 And I don't recall ever an official email 6 going out saying where I was acting. I 7 remember an email going out saying to all 8 department heads that was no longer 9 around and if anybody needed anything from the 10 facilities department to see me. 11 MR. : Now, were you -- 12 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:36:07) . 13 MR. : Through the whole time 14 were you a part of these meetings that you said 15 that the facility manager would be a part of? 16 MR. : Some of them, yes, I was. 17 Yep. 18 MR. : So until the time you 19 left you still were sitting in the meeting the 20 facility manager would sit in then? 21 MR. : I was even in those meetings 22 when the facility manager was there. We all 23 sat in together. 24 MR. : Now, would you have been 25 sitting in those meetings if you were just the EFTA00112572 36 1 general foreman? 2 MR. : At his request if he wanted 3 me to or even if one of the executive staff 4 wanted me there. It all depends on what they 5 would have discussed at that time. 6 MR. : Did you (Indiscernible 7 *00:36:44) --? 8 MR. : He could choose. So the -- 9 MR. (Indiscernible 10 *00:36:45) . 11 MR. : -- facility manager could 12 choose to have me there, or he could say, "I 13 got this. Don't worry about, you don't got to 14 come." 15 MR. : So when you were - at 16 least, you know, from the time left 17 until February, were you automatically assumed 18 to be in those meetings or you'd have to be 19 invited to each individual one? 20 MR. : It's kind of like both. I 21 expected myself to be there because somebody 22 had to represent the department in there, but 23 they also put out a roll call sheet prior to 24 those meetings and if I saw my name on it, I 25 went. EFTA00112573 37 1 MR. : And was your name on it? 2 MR. : Not always, no. 3 MR. : Okay. No, I'm just 4 trying to get behind were you acting and then 5 you just had someone overseeing you or - yeah, 6 I'm just trying to figure out how because we're 7 --. 8 MR. : I always had somebody 9 overseeing me, always. 10 MR. : Right. 11 MR. : Because even the facility 12 manager had somebody overseeing him, so. 13 MR. : But if you were going to 14 write your resume would you say that you were 15 acting a facility manager for that time? 16 MR. : No, because it wasn't 17 official. 18 MR. : So if well --. 19 MR. : Well, I --. 20 MR. : I'd say that was 21 official. 22 MR. : I don't know what an official 23 is really. 24 MR. : Yeah. 25 MR. : I couldn't be honest with EFTA00112574 38 1 you. 2 MR. : No, if you're acting, if 3 they sent out an email, I would say that's 4 pretty official saying that you're the acting 5 facility manager and you could put it in your 6 signature line. I mean, there's not like --. 7 MR. : I would normally and I 8 thought so, but I also found out also that if 9 you're, like, you know, not temporarily 10 promoted into it and stuff like that and you're 11 not getting paid to do the job - but like I 12 said, I do remember emails going out, I just 13 cannot recall if the word "acting" was put into 14 it or not and if the word "acting" was in it, 15 but I don't know if I ever recall that or not. 16 I mean, there was several times where it 17 would go out because called in sick or 18 he went on vacation. I just don't recall if it 19 was ever done when he went off permanently. I 20 don't know if that was ever --. 21 MR. : Would it be a fair 22 statement for us to say that you were acting 23 facility manager with oversight? Would that be 24 a fair --? 25 MR. : I --. EFTA00112575 39 1 MR. : Or just tell --. 2 MR. : I guess so. 3 MR. : We just have to document 4 it in our reports of, like, you know, what this 5 person's role was from this time to this time. 6 So in order for us to be clear, I want to make 7 sure that we're not writing something that's 8 inaccurate. It's nothing -- 9 MR. : Yeah. 10 MR. : -- to do with, like, 11 you're, you know - you know, this is just for 12 our report writing purposes we can say, you 13 know, " went out, you were the acting 14 facility manager from this date until, you 15 know, February 2019, and then, you know, you 16 clarify that you had oversight from the 17 executive staff in your position and were 18 limited with your facility manager decision 19 making ability." Would that be fair? 20 MR. : Right, because if regardless 21 of whether I was acting or not and whether I 22 had oversight or not, the mere fact that 23 was not there, I still had to do a lot 24 of his duties to keep the department 25 functioning whether somebody deemed me EFTA00112576 40 1 officially acting or not. I was still doing 2 his functions because he was not there. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : Under oversight from 5 executive staff. 6 MR. : Yeah, that sounds like 7 acting to me, so I just want to make sure that 8 we are clear there. Like you're just saying 9 you're not acting because you weren't official 10 - you know, you weren't temporarily promoted, 11 but you were performing those duties with 12 oversight. 13 MR. : They would - like I said, he 14 would call in sick and not come into work for a 15 couple days or go on vacation, so he would put 16 out an email to everybody in the institution 17 saying, " is acting facility manager 18 for the time that I'm out." 19 MR. : And would you --? 20 MR. : And himself, the 21 facility manager. 22 MR. : Oh, prior to 23 going out in 2018? 24 MR. : He would - if he wanted to 25 take a week off and go somewhere, he would put EFTA00112577 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 out an email letting the institution and the executive staff know that " will be acting in my capacity while I'm out." Happened all the time. Same thing like me, I would do the same thing and I would designate one of my subordinates as acting for me if I went out. But I do believe that at some point some kind of email went out by one of the executive staff after left that everybody should come and see me for all facility -related issues till further notice. And like I said, came to my office right after we had found out that wasn't coming back shortly after that Denver trip and he told me that I would have to run the department until they figure out what was going on with him, which was top secret and nobody knew anything. They didn't know nothing, couldn't tell you. MR. : All right. Go ahead, MR. : Just to clarify. had that meeting with , sent out that email? MR. : I don't think - if he was the one that sent it After you is that when he I don't know out, I can't EFTA00112578 42 1 recall. I just know some kind of email went 2 out for the department heads and it was also 3 brought up in one of the meetings reminding 4 people that was no longer there and 5 that if they had any facility -related issues I 6 was the one - I was the POC. 7 MR. : Okay. Now, is it okay - I'm 8 going to move forward in the topic. Now, 9 during that time period do you recall during 10 your tenure after left and before 11 left, was there a camera project that 12 was started at the MCC? 13 MR. : It was there. It was already 14 started. I believe when I had gotten there, 15 they were still doing market research and stuff 16 like that. 17 MR. : Is it in 2016? 18 MR. : What's that? 19 MR. : You said when you started, 20 you're talking about 2016? 21 MR. : There was talks of - there 22 was already camera issues I guess had going on 23 when I had gotten there. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. : And I believe - well, it was EFTA00112579 43 1 December of 2016, so nothing happened in '16. 2 I think, you know, because I was - I got there, 3 like, the week of Christmas. So going into 4 '17, I know that there was talks about - it 5 wasn't so much on the cameras, it was on the 6 recorders. There was always constant internal 7 chatter between the comm techs and SIS and 8 everything else on how - I guess they had an 9 older system that was analog and everybody else 10 had digital, but their main gripe was, I guess 11 - and I'm not too familiar with the security 12 side of stuff, I'll be honest with you, I 13 always refer to them when I needed a question 14 answered, but from what I gather, what I 15 understand, they weren't able to go back in 16 time on the recorders as far as they 17 experienced, I guess, with other institutions. 18 So there was no secret that there was 19 cameras that were not working throughout the 20 facility. Like I said, that was a dead horse 21 from what I understand. They were dealing with 22 broken cameras long before I had even gotten 23 back there. And this recorder issue for 24 whatever reason evolved and turned into camera 25 issues, you know, and exposed the entire EFTA00112580 44 1 infrastructure eventually. 2 MR. : So you mentioned there's two 3 issues. There is one the - there were actual 4 cameras that weren't recording, I mean, cameras 5 that weren't working. 6 MR. : Right. 7 MR. : That means there was no live 8 feed, there's nothing recording either because 9 the cameras itself were broken? 10 MR. : Right. So the - from what I 11 understand you had a combination of two 12 problems there. You had some cameras that 13 legitimately were not working. They just - 14 there was no communication. There was no 15 nothing. And then you had other cameras which 16 were in certain cells up in the Special Housing 17 Unit where whether they were working or not, it 18 was to my understanding that there was a lot of 19 damage being done to them by the inmates that 20 were in those cells. So they were either 21 scratching the lenses on the cameras, covering 22 up with wet toilet paper or whatever the case 23 may be. 24 I, myself, I couldn't even tell you if 25 those cameras were ever working. I only knew EFTA00112581 45 1 of one camera in the Special Housing Unit that 2 worked for the cells for the ranges and that 3 was, like, one suicide cell that they had there 4 on J-Range. But I don't - it started out with 5 me, the recorders were the issue, and then they 6 were like, "Oh, okay, we're going to go ahead 7 and spend this money and fix these recorders 8 and get these - this conversion from analog to 9 digital, let's suck in the cameras too that 10 don't work." 11 But I can tell you that I know that SIS 12 was constantly going to the comm techs all the 13 time because they were doing investigations and 14 had no camera footage. It almost seemed like 15 (Indiscernible *00:45:47) . And obviously this 16 was long before the Jeffrey Epstein thing 17 because, you know, I had even left the 18 institution before Jeffrey Epstein got there. 19 This was just for, like, smaller internal 20 investigations that they were doing where they 21 were constantly going to for the camera 22 footage issues. 23 And the determination was made by 24 and the higherups, I guess, and they said, 25 well, if we're going to go ahead and change EFTA00112582 46 1 this recorder why don't we just go ahead and 2 try to upgrade everything, get some new cameras 3 inside and out. And they even wanted to add 4 cameras to the existing complement because they 5 had a lot of blind spots and then obviously the 6 infrastructure itself, like the wiring and the 7 conduit was all part of that deal. 8 MR. : In your knowledge in 2018 and 9 in '19, how many cameras were there inside the 10 MCC? 11 MR. : I couldn't tell you honestly. 12 There was a lot, but there was also a lot that 13 should have been there. But I do remember 14 had a map of where every single - pre- 15 existing camera was in the institution and I 16 believe the comm techs also had an inventory 17 tracking sheet, because each one of those 18 cameras had an asset number assigned to it 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : -- that was in the MTMMS 21 Maintenance Management System. 22 MR. : What was that --? 23 MR. : So - it's on the Maintenance 24 Management System, the --. 25 MR. : MTMS? EFTA00112583 47 1 MR. : TMS, yep, Total Maintenance 2 System. So, you know, all that equipment was 3 in there, so you should be able to pull the 4 report out of there. That would list all those 5 cameras including any asset numbers assigned to 6 the associated components that's maintainable. 7 If it's something that's maintainable and could 8 be repaired and it's not like a throwaway. We 9 call it run-to-die. If it's maintainable, 10 reparable, it's worth putting money into it, 11 it's in that system. 12 MR. : Okay. So in the SHU, do you 13 know how many cameras were in the SHU offhand? 14 MR. : No, because it was very 15 inconsistent because it was to my understanding 16 certain cameras were added throughout the years 17 for certain specific reasons. They would 18 designate certain cells for certain purposes 19 and then they would cancel that purpose and 20 convert it back to a regular cell. I mean, it 21 was just the constant changing of the 22 operations that changed the cameras, and that 23 was just obvious without even knowing the 24 backdrop because you could tell just by the 25 cameras there were so many different makes and EFTA00112584 48 1 models. They weren't all consistent. They 2 weren't all consistent. They weren't the same 3 for the most part depending on what area you 4 were in. 5 MR. : And so, this is -- 6 MR. : So SHU --. 7 MR. : -- in the SHU you're talking 8 about? You're not talking about 10-South? 9 We're talking about between G, M, J, K, L, M, T 10 that's inside the SHU? 11 MR. : Yes, those for the SHU, as 12 far as I know those were all there pre-existing 13 before me. There was never no camerawork done 14 up there, whether they were working or not. 15 MR. : But you just mentioned they 16 were adding cameras and taking them out. 17 MR. : Yeah, but I was talking 18 institution wide -- 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : -- not just - yeah, not just 21 SHU, you know. It was institution wide. 22 MR. : So let's get back on track. 23 We talked about the fact that started a 24 project and the project - what did that project 25 for the cameras entail? EFTA00112585 49 1 MR. : So I really - for the project 2 the way it was designed, the way we wanted it 3 done was had put this package together. 4 We were going to get - he had the map of the 5 cameras I was telling you about. So we were 6 going to upgrade the existing cameras, add new 7 cameras because took this map, brought 8 it to the executive staff and to SIS and they 9 said, "Hey, listen, this is what we have now. 10 We're going to go ahead and try to get this 11 project. Where do you need cameras?" 12 So they did a tour around the institution 13 and they went ahead and they asked to have 14 other cameras placed, like on certain ranges 15 that didn't have any coverages. There was, 16 like, a little mini TV rec room in the housing 17 units that had no camera coverage in them. 18 There was a lot of blind spots in certain areas 19 throughout the institution. So they went ahead 20 and they added what they wanted to add. 21 But then also because the recorder was 22 getting upgraded, the infrastructure that was 23 in place because it was analog, obviously it 24 was going to go to digital, they had to run new 25 wiring, new conduit. All that had to be done. EFTA00112586 50 1 So under that contract, last I remember 2 walking out that door, what happened was it 3 came in over a million dollars originally and 4 somebody came back and said, "Listen, we need 5 to get this to 800,000 or lower." Somebody 6 threw out a number there, I don't remember who 7 it was. It came through and somebody 8 up top said that because of some kind of 9 procurement avenue or regulation or something, 10 they would've had to go through a whole 11 different procurement avenue because of that 12 amount. They said to make it easier and to try 13 and increase our chances of getting this money 14 and getting it done, we had to bring the number 15 down to like 800,000 or something. I don't 16 remember the exact number. 17 So then the decision was made because 18 originally we did this contract, whoever we 19 were purchasing the cameras from, they were 20 also supposed to install those cameras. We 21 paid for the labor for them to do the entire 22 project initially. My guys weren't going to 23 touch anything, they were just going to provide 24 support. So the initial $1 million number was 25 to have the contract SigNet, I guess it was in EFTA00112587 51 1 that contract, whoever we were getting those 2 cameras from, they were going to go ahead and 3 do the install and we would supervise them, 4 escort them, and give support when they came. 5 So when they came back and told us that 6 that number needed to get down below 800 or 7 whatever, that's when the decision was made to 8 where they said, "Okay. We can do this. We 9 can just have the contractor install the 10 cameras and we can use the trade guys, the 11 electrician and the comm techs to run the cable 12 and the wiring to save on the labor, to bring 13 the labor costs down to try and get into that 14 number." 15 And that was the last - that's how I left 16 off. That's