APPEARANCES:

1 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OTHER APPEARANCES: OIG CASE #: NONE 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 4, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 3 4 1 MR. The recorder is on. My 1 credentials. 2 name is and I am a Senior 2 MS. : Thank you. And I'm 3 Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 3 , 4 Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New 4 MR. Okay. And what is your 5 York Field Office, and these are my 5 position? 6 credentials. 6 MS. : Supervisory Correctional 7 MS. : Okay. 7 Systems Suecialist. 8 MR. This interview with 8 MR. Great. Thank you. This 9 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee 9 is an official DOJ/OIG investigation into the 10 is being conducted as part of an official U.S. 10 death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and the 11 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 11 surrounding circumstances, and you are being 12 General, DOJ/OIG investigation. Today's date 12 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 13 is August 4, 2021, and the time is 1:22 p.m. 13 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 14 This interview is being conducted at the 14 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 15 Metropolitan Correctional Center, the MCC, 15 MS. : Yes. 16 located in New York, New York. Also present is 16 MR. : Thank you. So, there's a 17 DOJ/OIG Special Agent . This 17 form here. It's the United States Department 18 interview will be recorded by me, SSA 18 of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, 19 . 19 Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested 20 Could everyone please identify themselves 20 to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. 21 for the record and spell your last name. To 21 "You are being asked to provide information as 22 start a'ain I am DOJ OIG Senior Siecial Agent 22 part of an investigation being conducted by the 23 . 23 Office of the Inspector General. This 24 MR. : This is DOJ/OIG Special Agent 24 investigation is being conducted, pursuant to 25 , , and these are my 25 the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. EFTA00114723 6 1 This investigation pertains to job performance 2 failure and security failure. This is a 3 voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not 4 have to answer questions. No disciplinary 5 action will be taken against you if you choose 6 not to answer questions. Any statements you 7 furnish may be used as evidence in any future 8 criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary 9 proceedings, or both." 10 And there's a waiver section. It says, "I 11 understand the warnings and assurances stated 12 above, and I am willing to make a statement and 13 answer questions. No promises or threats have 14 been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of 15 any kind has been used against me." 16 So, again, it's just reminding you that 17 you do not have to answer our questions. If 18 there's something you feel uncomfortable with 19 or if you want to stop at any time, you can 20 say, yep, I can, I'm done. 21 MS. • Okay. 22 MR. : Make sense? 23 MS. : Yes. 24 MR. : Awesome. So, if you 25 agree with that, here, you can review this. It 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 says employee's signature. If you sign there, and then em loyee's name -- MS. • Okay. MR. -- you can print your name there. Thank you. MS. : You want my whole name? I'll put it on there. (Indiscernible *00:02:38) What time is it? MR. p.m. MR. : Thank you for completing that. I can fill in the rest, though. MS. May. MR. : So, where it says, employee's name, is it something other than IIIII or -- MS. MR. MS. MR. MS. MR. : No. That's me. : Oh, that's a W? Yeah, that's a W. : Oh, I thought it was a G. Oh, no, that's a W. : Thank you. I'm filling in the MCC New York as the place. And I'm oin to sign. Again, this is and print my name. And Special Agent can you please sign? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 MR. : This is Agent . I'm signing as the witness. MR. : All right. And if any of these, you don't feel comfortable answering, that's totall fine. MS. : Okay. MR. : This is just to verify who you are. Oh, first, before we start, I need to place you under oath. Can you please raise your ri ht hand? MS. : Uh-huh. MR. : Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? MS. : Yes. MR. Awesome. And if there is anything you don't understand or you want me to rephrase or ask it another way, please, by all means -- MS. : Okay. MR. -- ask me to do so and I will. What is your current home address? MS. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8 MR. : Thank ou. And 'our DOB? MS. MR. MS. : My date of birth? Oh, MR. Well, welcome. What's your social securit number? MS. MR. cellphone number? MS. MR. level of education? MS. : Associates Degree. MR. And what is that degree in? And vihat is your current And what is your highest MS. : In Criminal Justice. MR. MS. MR. MS. MR. MS. MR. what's the town? And where is that from? And where is that? In Uh-huh. Is, the name of the, EFTA00114724 9 1 MS. : I don't, 2 It's an online school. 3 MR. • Oh, okay. 4 MS. : A nationally -accredited online 5 school. 6 MR. Okay, great. And when 7 did you attend? 8 MS. : I attended in 2017, and I 9 finished in 2019. 10 MR. : Okay. Great. And what 11 did you dp_prior to working for the BOP? 12 MS. IIIII: I used to work for Berks 13 County, in Reading, Pennsylvania. I used to 14 work for a detention center. They used to 15 contract illegal immigrant kids and stuff like 16 that, for the 17 MR. : Okay. And when did you 18 do that? 19 MS. : I did that in, I started here 20 in 2001. I started there, I think it was in 21 1998, '97, '98. 22 MR. : So you did that for, 23 like, three or four years? 24 MS. : Yeah, three or four years, 25 yes. 10 1 MR. Great. Do you have any 2 military service? 3 MS. : No. 4 MR. : Okay. And how long have 5 you served with the Bureau of Prisons? 6 MS. : It's 20 years, 20-1/2 years, 7 it will be 21 in A ril. 8 MR. : Do you recall your Enter 9 on Duty date? 10 MS. : April 2000. I don't know the 11 day, but I know the year, 2001. 12 MR. : So April 2001? 13 MS. : Uh-huh. 14 MR. : Great. And when did you, 15 do you remember when you went to BOP training, 16 when you graduated? 17 MS. IIIII: I went in August of 2001. I 18 went in, yeah, August, either July or August, 19 and I came back a week before 9/11 hit. 20 MR. : Okay. And what is your 21 current position with the BOP? 22 MS. : Supervisory Correctional 23 Systems 24 MR. : Are you familiar with 25 Jeffrey Epstein? 11 1 MS. : Yeah. I heard, he's all on 2 the news and stuff like that, and he was here. 3 So, yeah. 4 MR. Okay. Great. Sorry. 5 I'm going to circle back to that last question. 6 MS. : Okay. 7 MR. • As that Supervisory 8 Correctional Services -- 9 MS. : Uh-huh. 10 MR. : -- Specialist, what does 11 that job duty and responsibilities, what does 12 that all entail? 13 MS. : I'm the supervisor of intake, 14 intake and receiving, receiving and discharge 15 of inmates, when they come in and when they 16 leave. 17 MR. Okay. 18 MS. We supervise the staff. 19 MR. And you, so, basically, 20 is that considered R&D? 21 MS. : R&D, yes. 22 MR. : So, receiving and 23 dischargifillt 24 MS. IIIII: Yes. Receiving and 25 discharging. Yes. 1 MR. • 2 that staff? 3 MS. 4 MR. 5 been -- 6 MS. 7 there, also 8 MR. 9 MS. 10 MR. 11 MS. 12 13 MR. 14 to spell 15 MS. 16 by 17 MR. Oh, okay. 18 MS. Yeah. 19 MR. • So, is a second 20 last name? 21 MS. : Yeah. Uh-huh. 22 Uh-huh. 23 MR. Okay. Okay. And do you, 24 like, differentiate between your duties, the 25 two of you? 12 And you supervise all of : Uh-huh. And how long have you : Yeah. It's another supervisor Oh, there's two of you? Yeah, it's two of us. • And who is the other one? : Her name is Do you happen to know how that last name? . But she goes EFTA00114725 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. ■: No, not really. We same thin cause we're on different MR. : Okay. MS. : So, we do the same each shift. MR. responsible for MS. MR. day? MS. MR. that position? MS. ■: I've been in will be three ears in April. MR. : And do you started? you MS. MR. Now, are MS. MR. Okay. And was he housed within the MCC in July and August of 2019? MS. : Yes. I think so. Yes. MR. And you had the same 13 all do the shifts. thing on Okay. So you both are the same thing? Yes. Uh-huh. Just different times of Just the times of day, yes. How long have you been in the position, it remember when I started in April 2019. Okay. Great. All right. familiar with Jeffrey Epstein? Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14 position at that time, correct? MS. : Yes. MR. : And you have already described your duties and responsibilities. Did you have any interaction or involvement with Epstein during his stay at the MCC? MS. : No. MR. What about when he came in or when he -- MS. : No. I don't recall. No. I don't think I ever seen him. MR. MS. MR. MS. MR. No? Huh-uh. No. Okay. Huh-uh. Not on suicide watch or anything like that? MS. : No. Huh-uh. MR. Or in SHU? MS. MR. MS. MR. actually worked 10th, 2019? Okay. Huh-uh. Do you recall if you at the MCC on August 9th and 1 MS. : I don't recall, but I probably 2 did day watch, 6 to 2. I probably was here 3 during the day. 4MR. : Okay. So, 6 a.m. to 2 5 p.m.? 6 MS. : Yes. 7 MR. : On August 9th? 8 MS. : Uh-huh. I probably was. I 9 got to look at m 10 MR. • That would be a Friday. 11 MS. . Yeah. I have to look at it, 12 and see if I was here. 13 MR. : Okay. And would they 14 have been the same duties and responsibilities 15 that you have described? 16 MS. : Yes. Yes. 17 MR. Okay. 18 MS. Uh-huh. 19 MR. And who would you 20 primarily work with during that time? 21 MS. : I work with all the CSOs, 22 Correctional Systems Officers. I don't know 23 who was on that da -- 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MS. : -- cause that was, like, two 16 1 years ago. 2 MR. : Sure. 3 MS. : So I don't remember who was 4 on. 5 MR. : Do you all, like, so, R&D 6 is a different piece with us. We have, like, 7 all, like, the, oh, what is it called, the 8 daily, like, schedule and logs of everybody who 9 worked -- 10 MS. : All the lieutenants, yeah, 11 that's the lieutenant log. 12 MR. : Yeah. Do you guys, well, 13 this is different. I'm talking about, like, 14 the, like, who was working in the custody side 15 of the house. Do you guys have, like, anything 16 like that, like, for instance, here would be 17 the August 10, 2019 daily assignment roster. 18 MS. : Yeah. We have a daily 19 assignment but not a roster. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MS. : It's a daily assignment. It 22 will have, like, everybody's name that's on it, 23 and we just check off who is here. 24 MR. Okay. 25 MS. : And then we'll put who is not EFTA00114726 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 here, like, AL for Annual Leave, SL for Sick Leave. But we do have that, but it doesn't look like that. MR. Okay. So, would we be able to go back and see who actually worked on August 9, 2019? MS. : Ninth, yes, we should have it. Yes. MR. Can I ask you terribly to do me some favors and start, can you, can we start a list and ask you to, like, provide some of this stuff for us? MS. : Yeah. You can write it down. Uh-huh. MR. to start, , just, the first one would be who was assigned on August 9th, August 8th and 9th, 2019. And did you report to anyone? Who did you rIpITI to back then? MS. IIIII: My supervisor was (Phonetic Sp. *00:10:12) We call him can't even pronounce, we call, his last name, I can't even pronounce his last name, but we call him Awesome. So, if you want Okay. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. MR. MS. MR. then? MS. a CMC. MR. : What does a CMC stand for? MS. : Case Manager Coordinator. MR. Okay. MS. : Yeah. CMC, Case Manager Coordinator. Uh-huh. MR. : And who would be the Case Manager Coordinator now? MS. 18 : He's over in Brooklyn now. Okay. : Over there. And what was his position MR. one? MS. person, but he's over in Brooklyn. MR. : When you say Brooklyn, at the MDC? MS. : MDC Brooklyn. Yes. MR. Okay. MS. Yes. MR. And did all those people Oh, he's still the same : But he's still the same 19 1 that you mentioned that work in R&D, did they 2 report to ou? 3 MS. Yes. 4 MR. Okay. 5 MS. Uh-huh. Me and Ms. 6 MR. Okay. And were you 7 previously interviewed under this 8 investigation? 9 MS. : No. 10 MR. No? 11 MS. : Huh-uh. 12 MR. Do you have any, what is 13 your understanding of what happened to Epstein 14 on August 9th and 10th of 2019? 15 MS. : That he just committed 16 suicide. That's it. 17 MR. : Okay. So, do you know 18 how he died? 19 MS. No. Huh-uh. 20 MR. No? Do you know if he, 21 like, died of hanging or anything like that? 22 MS. : I guess it was hanging. I 23 heard it was hanging, but I don't, I didn't 24 really, like, ask, cause -- 25 MR. Okay. And do you have 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 20 any information with regard to any suspicious activity that occurred on August 9th or 10th, 2019 -- MS. : No. MR. -- leading up to the discovery of Epstein in his cell? MS. : No. MR. : No? Okay. So, these are, now, we'll get into kind of the reason why we're here, is to get into this documentation. So, we have, there's an inmate, it's, Epstein was housed with a cellmate named Efrain Reyes. : Uh-huh. And we have a couple of from the U.S. Marshalls Service. : Okay. Saying what was going on So here is one. It says MS. MR. things comin MS. MR. with Efrain Re it's from a MS. MR. Thursday, MS. MR. And it's, you're one of the, it looks like it says R & - Uh-huh. It was sent on ust 8, 2019, at 10:34 a.m. : Uh-huh. EFTA00114727 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 21 MS. .Yeah, that's all R&D. Yeah. MR. : Okay. So, it was sent to all R&D. MS. IIIIIiii-huh. Yeah. MR. : And yourself, and it says, "Transfer of Prisoners from NYM to GEO." MS. .ro CEO, yes. MR. : So, is that from the MCC to the contract facility? MS. : Yeah, from MCC, and he's CEO, yes. MR. IIIIIIIIII: Okay. Great. And then, in the body, it says, "The following prisoners are to be transferred." MS. • Yes. MR. It says Javon Bussey and then Efrain Reyes. MS. • Yes. MR. • "Please schedule transfer for Frida 8/9/19." MS. • Uh-huh. MR. And we have another one, the same date, it says it's from a different person with the Marshals Service, saying - MS. : Elzahr. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MS. MR. R&D. MS. MR. lieutenants MS. MR. "Prisoner August 8, MS. MR. p.m. MS. Uh-huh. MR. And then within it, it has the prisoner's schedule report, and the second person, there are the two people that I just listed -- MS. : Yes. MR. . -- and the second person being Efrain Reyes. MS. : Yes. MR. And it says, "Transfer within." p 2 roduction, 019. • 22 Elzahr, E-L-Z-A-H-R. : Uh-huh. : Again, this is all, like, R&D and other staff, yes. : As well as the and, okay. • Yes. Uh-huh. There's you, and it says, 8/9/2019." Thursday, Was sent out -- That was sent at 3:36 23 1 MS. : Yes. 2 MR. : Does this tell you what 3 happened with Efrain Reyes? 4 MS. : This just says that he 5 transferred to GEO. That's it. That's what 6 this says. He's transferring. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MS. : That's all it says. But right 9 here, when they do a transfer, I don't know, 10 like, right here, this says court. So, I don't 11 know if he went out to court and then they 12 transferred him ou see what I'm saying? 13 MR. : Uh-huh. 14 MS. : Cause this says court. And 15 plus, as me being a supervisor, I don't do the 16 movement. 17 MR. Okay. So who, who -- 18 MS. I'm not the movement officer. 19 MR. : So who would do that? 20 MS. 21 MR. would be the one? 22 MS. Yes. Yeah she does the 23 movement. Me and Ms. , we don't do the 24 movement. 25 MR. Okay. So, based upon 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 24 this, does this, cause this person also is listed as transfer within, court. MS. : Yeah, and court. Yes. MR. . And everybody else -- MS. Uh-huh. MR. -- no one else has that next to their name. They all have, like, sentencing_ligging, sentencing, status hearing. MS. IIIII: Yeah, but that still, the type is court. That's just what they're going to court for. MR. : Right. So, this one, though, being that says transfer within, court MS. : Transfer, he's transferring, and he (Indiscernible *00:14:16). MR. : Does that mean he was going to court, or that's just an automatic field? MS. : I guess that's automatically, they put that there, cause this is the U.S. Marshals form. So, I think they automatically just put that there. I think what it is, is that when they come and pick up the inmates, cause the U.S. Marshals will pick up the EFTA00114728 25 26 1 inmates. 2 MR. . Uh-huh. 3 MS. : And they will transfer them. 4 So, I guess they go sit over there, like 5 they're going to court, and then GEO comes over 6 there and they pick them up from the U.S. 7 Marshals. 8 MR. . Okay. 9 MS. That's how it works. 10 MR. • So, when someone is 11 transferred, so, when these people are 12 transferred from here to GEO -- 13 MS. : Uh-huh. 14 MR. : -- what document is 15 created by, I guess it sounds like , but 16 by the BOP (Indiscernible *00:14:53)? 17 MS. : We only do like a, we need, 18 like a transfer receipt from the Marshals, 19 saying that they're going to transfer and we 20 usually just need a 64. 21 MR. IIIIIIIIII: Uh-huh. 22 MS. IIIII: And a medical summary. A 64 23 is a transit form. 24 MR. Okay. 25 MS. : That the BOP, that we just go 27 1 is provided to us, so if Epstein was housed in 2 the SHU, the SHU would be provided that court 3 list, correct? 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. • It would say -- 6 MS. It would be like a, it's like 7 a roster. not -- 8 MR. I said Epstein, I'm 9 sorry, I mean, Efrain Reyes. 10 MS. • Yeah, it's like -- 11 MR. If Reyes was housed in 12 the SHU -- 13 MS. : It's like a roster. They 14 wouldn't get this or anything like that. It's 15 just like you go on Sentry and you print out a 16 roster and it will have his name on there, and 17 then we'll write down what unit he's on, and 18 then internal will come and pick it up, or they 19 will hand it out, whatever, whoever is going 20 out to court, that's the unit that they give 21 the court list to. 22 MR. . Okay. 23 MS. That's how it works. 24 MR. So, would those people 25 know if he was going to court or being 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 on Sentry and do a PP 64 and put the reg number, and we put T for transfer, and down at the bottom, we could put as many reg, I think it's like 20 reg numbers down there, of whoever inmates are leaving, and then a 64 will be printed out. MR. Okay. MS. And it's just a transit form. MR. Now is there something that's like, would these people be placed on the court list, though? MS. : Yes. Yes. MR. : Okay, so they would be put on the court -- MS. : They would be placed on the court list es. Yes. MR. : And what would it say next to their name? MS. MR. MS. MR. MS. : WAG. . And that's it? : Yes. That's it. : Okay. Uh-huh. That's what she usually puts, AB, on there. MR. Now, if that court list 28 transferred? MS. : They wouldn't know that. MR. : They wouldn't know that? They woulLji t know it was WAB? MS. IIIII: Cause it's really, like, it's really none of their business. MR. : Right. Okay. MS. : Yeah. They would just know that he's one. know what I mean? MR. : Well, because, like, kind of like when you said, when I said, you knew who Efrain, or, you know, Epstein was or is, you said, yeah, he went to court. MS. MR. MS. MR. : Yeah. Uh-huh. : Cause, is that -- : Yeah, cause, I'm - • -- so, like, that's actually the rumor? MS. : That's what, that's what it would be, or we'll call up there, like, are you going to send Efrain Reyes down, and they will say, yeah, he's going to court, and then if he doesn't come back, we might call up there, or they will know that he's not, cause he's not, or they'll call us and ask us. EFTA00114729 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 29 MR. : Okay. MS. : You know? Or something like that. So, they should have, I'm thinking they should have known we would have probably, somebody probably would have told them that he wasn't comin back he was getting transferred. MR. : Okay. So, as far as this, there's the daily log, 8/9/2019, and on the third page of this shows Reyes, pre- removed. MS. : Yes. MR. Now, if he was just going to court -- MS. It would say court. MR. Yeah. It wouldn't say pre-removed? MS. : It wouldn't say pre-removed. Yes. MR. So, this is, by looking at all of this, I'm assuming you can tell, yeah, he was never going to court. always goin to be transferred? MS. He was going, yes. MR. Okay. And I may have been what you were saying He was Yes. Yes. think this . Is there 30 1 any way for the SHU staff to know, he's leaving 2 and not cAcEuIg back, rather than -- 3 MS. IIIII: See, we don't, like, it 4 depends. Cause we really don't, we really 5 don't tell them, like, if I talk to them, I 6 might say like he's not coming back. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MS. : Or so, I might tell them, so I 9 don't know, on that day, who called up there 10 and told them to have him ready, you know what 11 I mean? And have him ready, and he's not 12 coming back. 13 MR. : Now, who would normally 14 call and tell them that? 15 MS. : It would be the person that's 16 working in R&D. 17 MR. Okay. So would it be 18 probably for this, as well? 19 MS. : It wouldn't be . Yeah, 20 she just does the movement. 21 MR. Okay. 22 MS. That's it. 23 MR. It wouldn't have been 24 her? 25 MS. : No, it wouldn't have been her. 31 1 MR. : All right. 2 MS. : She just does the movement. 3 So, it would be the person that's on the front 4 desk. 5 MR. So, if the people that 6 escorted Re es down -- 7 MS. Uh-huh. 8 MR. -- to R&D and they knew 9 that WAB was actually, in fact, listed next to 10 his name -- 11 MS. : Uh-huh. 12 MR. -- should have they known 13 that he is not coming back, if it says WAB? 14 MS. : Not really. 15 MR. : No? 16 MS. : Because they don't work R&D. 17 You see what I mean? They work custody. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MS. : So, it depends who was up 20 there. It could have been new staff, who 21 knows. Cause a lot of people don't know what 22 WAB does. 23 MR. : Well, they know it means 24 "with all belongings." 25 MS. : Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 32 true. MR. So, a person who would say, yeah, I know it's with all belongings, and, you know, we know it's very likely, there, he's not going to come back, but we don't know for sure. Does that sound at all reasonable? MS. : They probably would have asked, like, called to see if he was coming back. Like, it was after, maybe 4:00 or something like that -- MR. Then they usually would - MS. : -- they probably would have asked if he was coming back, cause, like, when I first transferred here, I worked in Brooklyn and then I transferred to Butner. I didn't know what WAB meant -- MR. : Right. MS. : -- until I got here, cause we don't use WAB what I mean? MR. : Yeah, but if these people, if these people absolutely said no, we know what WAB is -- MS. : WAR, yes. MR. -- but they thought, you EFTA00114730 33 1 know, if they're claiming, well, we thought he 2 was going to court, and there's always a chance 3 he could come back from court? So, see what 4 I'm sayin ? So, with this guy -- 5 MS. : Yeah. 6 MR. : -- so this goes, so where 7 this fits in is, Epstein, did you know that 8 Epstein was required to have a cellmate? 9 MS. ..didn't know that, no. 10 MR. : Okay. So, he was 11 required to have a cellmate, and Reyes was his 12 cellmate. 13 MS. : Okay. 14 MR. : So, part of the reason 15 why they're saying that Epstein died is because 16 his cellmate was removed and never replaced. 17 So, you know, some people say it's because of 18 the 30 minute rounds, or a lot of it is the 19 combination, some people are saying, well, 20 there was no one in his cell, so he took 21 advantage of not having anybody in there. 22 MS. : Okay. 23 MR. : So, in this case, the SHU 24 staff, some people are saying, yep, I knew he 25 was WAB, but there's always a chance that he 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 34 could, he could have returned. Is that a legit MS. : No. Not a WAB. MR. No? So, a WAB, they should have known he ain't coming back? MS. : Huh-uh. He's not coming back Yeah. MR. MS. MR. Okay. WAR. Okay. • MS. : Unless we tell you something different. But a WAB, he's not coming back. MR. Okay. So, it's the primary uestion then. MS. • Yes. MR. Great. So, again, to you, so, (Indiscernible *00:20:19), he was being transferred, not going to court. MS. : Not going to court. But I guess the Marshal just put court, because when they come, if a WAB is leaving with the Marshals, they usually just put court, because they pick the inmates up -- MR. All the same -- MS. -- everybody at the same time, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and take them over there, so that's why they have court. MR. MS. MR. MS. MR. it is the 4th. MR. : So, the two emails, technically, what you're saying, this goes hand-in-hand, one says he's being transferred, the other one states that he is being picked up by the Marshals (Indiscernible *00:21:09). MS. : Yeah. Yeah. They both go hand-in-hand, because this one is the Marshals, that they're telling us, but they're telling us WAR, he's going to GEO. So, we'll know he's transferring to another state. That's another state facility that houses federal inmates for 35 for so you • Okay. On their form. • So, this is, anytime we present someone with documents, you just ask them to initial and date it. MS. : Okay. MR. : It's not to vouch the, not certifying it's accurate, just can say, this is what we discussed. • What I saw. Okay. So, just anywhere. And 36 1 the Marshals. And then this one is the list 2 that the Marshals put out, also, so they kind 3 of go hand-in-hand. 4 MR. : How the pick-up itself is 5 (Indiscernible *00:21:30). 6 MS. : Yes, how the pick-up, yes. 7 But everything is going to say court on the 8 side, because the Marshals are going to pick 9 up, when they pick up the court, they're 10 picking uiliii,WABs also. 11 MR. : And on that court document, 12 you might have answered this already, the court 13 document that's created internally, it would 14 have said WAB? 15 MS. : Yeah. Like, it's like almost, 16 a receipt, a transfer receipt that we do. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. • And it will say WAB. It will 19 say, like, it will say his reg number, his 20 name, and it will say his unit and it will say 21 pre-removed, so pre-removed, that means he's 22 not coming_kEE. You know what I mean? 23 MR. 'I'll': And that's (Indiscernible 24 *00:22:04). 25 MS. : Pre-removed. Yeah. He's not EFTA00114731 37 1 coming back. So that's what would it be. It 2 would sayiiiiemoved. 3 MR. : Do you have a copy of an 4 example of what that court document looks like? 5 No, right? Is it ossible that we -- 6 MR. : The court list? 7 MR. : The court list. Do we, if 8 you can provide us with one? 9 MS. : We don't have, huh-uh. 10 MR. : No, not that one, but any 11 type of -- 12 MS. : Which one? 13 MR. -- what it looks like? 14 MS. : Any samples? 15 MR. : Yeah. 16 MS. I could -- 17 MR. : Has it changed since that 18 time, that document? 19 MS. : Cause we do a, but, yeah, the 20 Marshals, now they got a picture on theirs, the 21 picture of the inmate and stuff like that. And 22 now we sign for it. I don't know if that's 23 because of E stein. I don't know. 24 MR. : But we just want an example. 25 MS. : Now we have to sign. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 38 MR. : If you can provide us -- MS. Okay. MR. : I'll put that on here. MS. : I'll put that, write that down. Write down Marshals, like a Marshals receipt. And I can give you a copy of it. I'll black, can I blacken out the inmate's photos on there? MR. : That's fine. MR. • Photos and the name, if you want. MS. Okay. MR. • We just need to see -- MS. You just want to see -- MR. -- what it says next to their names. MS. Yeah, their new one. MR. To tell the difference, differentiate if MS. : The ones that the Marshals -- MR. . -- somebody is going to court or someone is being transferred, you know. MS. : Okay. MR. : With that, just so we cane 40I to medical, summary form. and she would 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 39 say, like, cause, like you said, you don't have that court list anymore? MS. : No. Huh-uh. No. Huh-uh. MR. : And are they maintained for any amount of period of them? MS. : We, no. Huh-uh. MR. : So that day, you get rid of them? MS. : Uh-huh. Yeah. MR. : And there are never emails orinything? MS. IIIII: I don't know how far my emails are going to go back. You see what I'm saying? I don't tihiiiiiiiiails go all the way back. MR. : Well, we have access to be able to et everybody's emails. MS. : Okay. MR. : Cause we actually got those, some of these from -- MS. and see. MR. emailed? MS. would, yeah, she would have did it, because she : So, you could probably look But are they ever : Because that would be 1 would email to the unit team and 2 stating that she needs a medical 3 MR. : Okay. So, 4 have sent the court list? 5 MS. : Yeah, she would have sent the, 6 like, not, see, he would, since he is WAB, it 7 would be a receipt that she would send out, 8 saying that she needed a medical summary and a 9 64 for him. 10 MR. : Okay. Make sure you're 11 documenting_Illose, too. 12 MS. IIIII: Yeah, they wouldn't get the, 13 they wouldn't get the court list, like the unit 14 team that, his unit team and the medical 15 department wouldn't get the court list. She 16 would do her own one and send it, saying that 17 they're leaving, those two are leaving and can 18 you please send me a medical summary and a 64? 19 MR. : But the actual court list 20 wouldn't be emailed to anybody? 21 MS. : Yeah. It probably would. I 22 don't know how the Marshal was doing it at that 23 time. I think they were doing it just like 24 that. But we don't email the Marshals court 25 list to anybody like that. EFTA00114732 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 MR. No, no, no. I mean, like, don't you create what you give to the SHU, saying MS. IIIII: It's a roster. It's on a, when we go on Sentry, that's how it's created. MR. Sentry, that -- MS. MR. MS. a new one. rah. And that's what MR. : Every day? MS. does. MR. that one da MS. : MR. MS. MR. MS. : But is it still on o. It gets deleted. Okay. : Yeah. And we get a new, we do So, it's only kept for Yes. Yes. Uh-huh. . And there's no way to -- And it's not really even kept. . Right. We just print it out. That's it. Like, we got, when we go in to do another one, we got to delete the old one. MR. : Okay. So, it's never kept for any period of time, really? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. MR. MS. MR. shredded? MS. MR. MS. MR. 42 o. Huh-uh. Printed out, given out -- : Given out. Yeah. Uh-huh. -- then basically Yeah. Trashed? Uh-huh. All right. So there's no way for us, whatever was created, saying what it said next to Efrain Reyes's name, whether it said WAB or not, there's no wa to tell -- MS. : I can ask to see -- MR. Yeah, yeah. We're going to talk to her. MS. : Yeah. Talk to, and see if she has it. MR. : When she came in, just so you know, she was great. She was very cooperative. MS. : Yeah. To see if -- MR. : But we didn't have these documents when we talked with her. MS. : Yeah, to see if she has it. If ya'll could go back in her email, I don't 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 know how, cause MR. MS. back. MR. her, I mean it MS. tomorrow. MR. Right. And we're hoping to be back here tomorrow. MS. : Okay. She won't be back until 12 tomorrow. She comes in at 12. MR. Okay, perfect. Anything more on Re es before we move to Fernandez? MR. : No. MR. Okay. Do you have any (Indiscernible *00:25:56) any daily lieutenant logs? MS. MR. 43 she's the movement person. Right. So, to see how far she went Yeah, if you could ask might come, mean more from you. Okay. She won't be back until a. None. . None? All right. So, if you see on this daily lieutenant log, just to close out the loop with Reyes, it does actually say, we don't know when it was entered, but it does say at 8:38, he was pre-removed. Now, the other person we wanted to talk to you about is 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 44 this I.M. Fernandez, and it says on dry cell with staff watching, R&D. MS. ..don't -- MR. : And then it says, "At 3:15 p.m., on August 9, 2019, Fernandez was placed on dry cell from ZA," which is the SHU. Do you know anything about this? MS. : NO. Huh-uh. MR. : No? MS. : Huh-uh. MR. : Does that ever, does that happen often that people are placed in dry cell and watched in R&D? MS. : In R&D? No, cause we don't let them. Huh-uh. MR. that? MS. MR. : You don't let them do We don't let them do it, no. Do you know, do you recall at all being that the Epstein involvement on there, this was the Friday before it someone being in R&D? MS. : No, I don't recall at all. Huh-uh. MR. Would that be something EFTA00114733 45 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that you would have known? MS. : You know what. No. Huh-uh. MR. : No? MS. : If they would have brought them in and send them in there with the staff, probably, if they would have told me, I would said, no. Take them back up to SHU and put them on a dr, cell. MR. : Okay. MS. : Cause we don't put them down here, cause we're not watching them. MR. : So, if, so it says that he's with staff on R&D. MS. : See, I don't even know what staff they're talking about. Was he, was another, was a custody staff watching him? MR. : Yeah, that I'm not sure of. MS. : Or was it R&D? You see what I'm sayinii MR. IIIIIIII : So, what I was going to ask, though, is so he was never keyed out. If you see, here is the movements for Fernandez. It shows that he was placed in, placed in Z, let's see --1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. Z05 cell. MR. : Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out where does it say the SHU part? : Z is SHU. : Z is SHU? Uh-huh. : Okay. Placed in SHU on MS. MR. MS. MR. 8/2/2019? MS. MR. : Okay. : And then it says that he was removed and placed in, I guess, R&D. MS. : Yeah. RO1, yeah. I don't -- MR. : In RO1. But he wasn't keyed out until 8/10/2019, at 12:35 a.m. MS. ..don't -- MR. : And then it says it was corrected, cause he was never keyed out of the SHU and placed into R&O until the following morning. MS. : Huh. MR. : Do you know who would be responsible, if they are taking him from the SHU and putting him in R&D, who would be responsible for actually making that movement? MS. : The lieutenant. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 47 MR. : The lieutenant would be? MS. : Whatever lieutenant, either the SHU lieutenant or operations lieutenant. MR. : Okay. So, if the SHU lieutenant is actually off that day? MS. : 0 erations. MR. Operations lieutenant? MS. Uh-huh. MR. Okay. And not the SHU staff? MS. : No. They can't. Huh-uh. They don't have authorization to do that. MR. : Okay. So it would have been the operations lieutenant that was responsible? MS. : 0 MR. erations lieutenant. Yes. Okay. All right. So, let's see. And the operations lieutenant at that time, I think, so, this would have happened at 3:15, he was placed on that, that would have been , cause he was 2 to 10. Do you want to quickly show, let me see the 10 p.m. and the 10 p.m. and the 12 a.m. counts? Cause I want to show her the count slips, so she can tell me who those people were that 48 1 submitted count slips. 2 MR. : To show, 3 (Indiscernible *00:29:03). 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 ones. I liat_!ant to show 6 MR. 'I'll': You want 7 and 12? 8 MR. Nope. 9 and the 12. 10 MR. : I got the 10 p.m., and this 11 is the 12. 12 MR. Okay. So, this is 10 13 p.m. 14 MR. 12 a.m. 15 MR. Here's the count slip we 16 got from R&D, M. Arafat. (Phonetic Sp. 17 *00:29:28). Would that be Custody or one of 18 your people? 19 MS. : M. Arafat? No, that's 20 Custody. 21 MR. That's a Custody person? 22 MS. Yeah. That ain't us. Huh-uh. 23 MR. All right. Not an R&D 24 person? 25 MS. : Yeah. I don't have Yeah. The other her the names. the 5 p.m., 10 p.m., lust the 10 p.m. EFTA00114734 49 1 MR. : Okay. R&O. 2 MS. : They just picked it up. I 3 think it was just in R&D. That's where the 4 count was at, but that's not, Arafat wasn't in 5 our, huh-uh. 6 MR. : And what about, this one 7 is the same. This was the 12 a.m. -- 8 MS. : Who is that? 9 MR. : It looks like a Dupree 10 and a Joyner? (Phonetic Sp. *00:29:52) 11 MS. : Custody. 12 MR. : That was Custody? 13 MS. Yeah. Now, what time was 14 that? 15 MR. : A minute -- 16 MR. : That one says 12:01 a.m. 17 MS. : We don't even work until, we 18 work until 10 n.m. 19 MR. : Would they be able to 20 have stayed in there? 21 MS. : Yeah. 22 MR. By themselves? 23 MS. : Anybody, yeah. Uh-huh. 24 MR. There you go. 25 MS. : Yeah. We work from 6 to 2, 6 50 1 to 2, and we got two shifts from 12 to 8 and 2 then evening watch is 2 to 10. So we're not 3 even there after 10:00. 4 MR. : Okay. So, as far as 5 you're concerned, though, if the SHU lieutenant 6 is out, when that inmate was moved from the SHU 7 to the R&D, placed on dry cell, the Ops 8 lieutenant should have keyed -- 9 MS. : It should have been operations 10 or the activit lieutenant. 11 MR. : And not -- 12 MS. I don't know which one. 13 MR. : What about Control? 14 Could have Control done it? 15 MS. : No. Huh-uh. 16 MR. No? 17 MS. : They, no, they don't have 18 authorization to move an inmate. 19 MR. • Okay. So, just, okay. 20 MS. : Yeah. 21 MR. So the lieutenant. 22 And that would have been • at 23 that time. Do you mind just initialing and 24 dating these -- 25 MS. : Yes. 51 1 MR. -- to show what we talked 2 about. (I,ernible *00:31:04). 3 MR. : Do you recall what time you 4 left thaty/ 5 MS. IIIII: I don't even remember if I was 6 here. If I was, I would have left by 2, 7 sometimes 2:30 or something like that. Yeah, I 8 don't even recall if I was here that day. The 9 9th, right? Yeah. 10 MR. : And then, thank you very 11 much. Here you go, . The next thing 12 would be, we have had to do pretty thorough 13 email reviews and this is, where is it, 14 something to do with you being involved with 15 SHU meetillgs_pr something. 16 MS. IIIII: Oh, I had to go when I was at 17 the, to go to the SHU meeting. 18 MR. Eirhat one? 19 MR. : Yep. I don't know how 20 (Indiscernible *00:32:16), or we were going 21 over it. Okay. So, this one, it says that, 22 please accept this appointment as a reminder to 23 attend the weekly complex SHU meetings. This 24 meeting is normally scheduled for every 25 Wednesday at 9 a.m. And this one, it says it 52 1 was from Tuesday, 8/6/2019. 2 MS. : Uh-huh. 3 MR. : I know this was a long 4 time ago, but do you remember at all, well, 5 first of all, what were those SHU meetings 6 about? 7 MS. : They just go around about the 8 inmates. Like the inmates on Unit 10, up 9 there, and the SHU inmates. They just go 10 around where ever, inmate that is in SHU. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MS. : Like, if they're on DS, if DS 13 is over or they're on FBI referrals and stuff 14 like that. That's all it's about. 15 MR. : Okay. Did they talk at 16 all about, like, if the cameras weren't working 17 or anythin like that in the SHU? 18 MS. : No. Huh-uh. 19 MR. : That wouldn't be 20 something ou discussed? 21 MS. : Huh-uh. No. 22 MR. Do you know anything 23 about the cameras not working in the SHU? 24 MS. : No. 25 MR. Or at the MCC at all? EFTA00114735 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. MR. MS. MR. 53 August 9th? Huh-uh. No? Okay. So, it would be just talking about the inmates during this? MS. : Yes. That's all they talk about, the inmates yes. MR. : All right. MR. : Was there any specific discussions about Epstein? MS. : You know, I don't remember. MR. : Anything that stands out, like they might have mentioned, hey, he's on Special Watch or anything like that? MS. : No. Huh-uh. MR. Are you familiar with the SHU? MS. : Yes. MR. a picture MS. MR. MS. MR. South? • Do you know what this is That's 10. This would be 10. . This is 10 South? Ten South. These are the doors to 10 54 1 MS. : That's the door, and that's 2 the lieutenant, and I forget what that door, 3 the lieutenant's door is right there. 4 MR. : So, the lieutenant, is 5 that, like, the SHU lieutenant? 6 MS. : SHU lieutenants. Uh-huh. 7 MR. Okay. 8 MS. : Uh-huh. 9 MR. So, the SHU lieutenant 10 actually sits right outside 10 South? 11 MS. : Half the time, he or she is 12 not even in their office. They're running 13 around SHU. 14 MR. : Okay. So, like, the 15 officer's station is right here? 16 MS. : Yes. Uh-huh. 17 MR. : And this is the SHU 18 lieutenant's office? 19 MS. : SHU lieutenant, and that's 20 Unit 10. 21 MR. So, that's news to me. 22 All right. Do you mind, I'll just do it for 23 you. 24 MS. : Oh, you didn't know that? 25 MR. : I knew, I knew the rest. 55 1 I just didn't know that this was the SHU LT. 2 MS. : Yeah, the SHU lieutenant, 3 cause you come up the steps, right here. And 4 this is the SHU lieutenant, and then it's Unit 5 10 right there. 6 MR. : And this is the emergency 7 exit? 8 MS. : Yes. Uh-huh. 9 MR. : And is this the, what is 10 this? 11 MS. 12 station. 13 MR. Officer's station? 14 MS. Yes. 15 MR. . So, I'm just going to say 16 OS for this. Do you happen to know what that 17 goes to? 18 MS. : What tier is that? Is that, 19 no -- 20 MR. To the left? 21 MS. -- I think L, is it L? I 22 don't know 'which one that is. 23 MR. : That's fine, cause here's 24 the, according to this, it looks like it would 25 be, this would be 3 tier and that would be L The station, officer's 56 1 tier, but if you don't know off the top of your 2 head, that's fine. 3 MS. : Okay. I don't know. You know 4 what? Yeah. It's probably 3, and it's H or 5 something down below. And then there's G tier 6 over here, going up the steps, going towards 7 Unit 10. Cause I don't really -- 8 MR. Yeah. Well, this is 9 that. 10 MS. : Okay. 11 MR. : For our purposes, that's 12 the big thing you provided to us, was that 13 that's the SHU lieutenant. 14 MS. : Okay. 15 MR. : And were you familiar 16 with Epstein? What cell he was housed in? 17 : They told me afterwards, that 18 cell -- 19 Not during that time? 20 but not during the, huh-uh 21 : Okay. 22 No. 23 : That's fine. 24 Huh-uh. 25 Do you mind just MS. that was MR. MS. MR. MS. MR. MS. MR. his • EFTA00114736 57 1 initialing and dating that? Thank you very 2 much. 3 MS. : You're welcome. 4 MR. . Here you go. Why did I 5 print this one out? Oh, this one just showed 6 that you actually worked on August 10, 2019. I 7 guess you ut in for overtime. 8 MS. : Yeah, I do -- 9 MR. For the emergency? 10 MS. Uh-huh. 11 MR. . Did you learn anything 12 during that time, when you were working, about 13 Epstein and his death? 14 MS. : No, not really. I really 15 didn't, they told, they called me in. I really 16 didn't want to come in. So, you know. 17 MR. : On Saturday? Why 18 wouldn't yri? 19 MS. IIIII: I really, no, I really didn't 20 want to come in. They called every, they 21 called everybody in. I didn't want to come up 22 in here. They just called everybody in. I 23 just heard that he committed suicide and that's 24 it, and they just wanted all the staff to come 25 in. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 58 MR. Okay. Was there any talk at that time about Reyes or any of that stuff, about his cellmate being removed? : No. Huh-uh. Nobody talked about that? MS. MR. MS. MR. Did you learn anything about that after the fact? MS. : After. MR. : What did you learn? MS. : I just learned that they said Reyes was his roommate. I didn't even know he was. MR. Okay. MS. Yeah. At the time. MR. Was there any talk about, like, he left, unbeknownst to the SHU staff or anything like that, or any talk about how it happened MS. No. Huh-uh. MR. -- or where he went? MS. No. Huh-uh. MR. Cause when you came in, you first said, yeah, he went to court. Was that your understanding, he went to court? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 59 MS. : Yeah. That's what I was, yeah, that's my understanding, until you showed me the thin . MR. : So was that the first time you're seeing -- MS. : Cause I wouldn't remember -- MR. : -- that he actually wasn't in court, and he was transferred? MS. : I probably seen it two years ago, but I just didn't remember until you showed me, but I knew he went to court. They said he went to court, but nobody ever said WAB, you know what I mean? MR. MS. MR. to court? MS. • Right, right, right. So, until you showed me. • So, you thought he went I thought he went to court. MR. And (Indiscernible *00:36:59). MS. : Yeah, but then I found out later that he has his Bunkie. MR. : Okay. And did they ever question R&D about, hey, is this, did he really go to court or not? 60 1 MS. : No. Huh-uh. 2 MR. : No one has ever spoken to 3 anybody? 4 MS. : They never said nothing to us 5 about anyiiiiiiiiii 6 MR. : Okay. And here we come. 7 So, let's, filling in some blanks. Thank you. 8 So nothing special from that day that you can 9 think of? 10 MS. : No. Huh-uh. No. That I just 11 didn't want to come in. 12 MR. Do you know of anything 13 about, like, records being destroyed during 14 that time or anybody recovering anything? 15 MS. : No. No. Huh-uh. Nothing. 16 Nothing. 17 MR. Do you remember where it, 18 what you did when you came in on that Saturday? 19 MS. : They just was, I know they 20 wanted his records. Like, the, like, I forget 21 what they wanted, to make copies and everything 22 of stuff, of his file. That's what they 23 wanted. Copies of his file and stuff like 24 that. And they was asking us where his file 25 was. EFTA00114737 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 61 MR. : Which file was that? MS. : And stuff, Epstein's file. MR. : Yeah, what type of a file? MS. : It's just a regular generated R&D file. It just has his remand in there. You probably already have a copy of it. His remand, and fingerprint card has pictures in there, and stuff like that. That's all it is. MR. : But nothing to do with the file that was actually in the SHU for, like, his feeding and his activities or anything like that? MS. : No. No. We don't get any of that. MR. : Okay. MS. Huh-uh. MR. : Do you know anything about that being destroyed or anything? MS. No. MR. No? MS. MR. all at that time? MS. : No. Were you in the SHU at 62 1 MR. : No? Okay. What about on 2 the 9th? Were you in the SHU at all? 3 MS. : No. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MS. : Huh-uh. No. Huh-uh. Cause I 6 don't think they would let us up there. I 7 wouldn't have went anyhow. 8 MR. IIIIIIIIII: That's not important. 9 This one was an email we got. It said, please 10 join Human Resources Executive Staff in 11 congratulating (Phonetic Sp. 12 *00:38:40) Utilities Program Manager on his 13 selection to General Foreman here at the MCC 14 New York. This was on Monday, August 5, 2019. 15 Do you know if he started that date, or if that 16 was just saying he was selected for it, and 17 starting at a later date? 18 MS. : Usually, it's just, he is 19 selected for that date. He is selected. They 20 just put out that he is selected. That's it. 21 MR. : But he wasn't actu