4 DIGITALLY RECORDED

1 2 3 4 DIGITALLY RECORDED 5 SWORN STATEMENT 6 OF 7 8 9 OIG CASE #: 10 2019-010614 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 19 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 20 JUNE 15, 2021 21 22 23 24 25 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00115899 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 4 BY: 5 BY: 6 7 8 WITNESS: 9 10 11 12 OTHER APPEARANCES: 13 NONE 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00115900 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. : The recorder is on. It is Tuesday, June 15, 2021 and the time is 5:57 p.m. MR. : My name is I'm a Special Agent with the U.S. Department of Justicer Office of the Inspector General, New York Field Office and these are my credentials. This interview is with Federal Bureau of Prisons Correctional Officer, Lieutenant - can you state your name? MR. MR. : First name? MR. MR. . And is being conducted as part of an official U.S. Department of Justice r Office of the Inspector General investigation. Today is June 15th and the time is 5:58 p.m. The interview is being conducted at , Deer Park, New York. Also present are DOJ OIG Senior Special Agent MR. , and again, these are my credentials. MR. : Uh-huh. MR. : This interview will be EFTA00115901 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 1 recorded by me, Special Agent 2 Could everyone please identify themselves for 3 the record and spell your last name, to start? 4 Again, I am DOJ Special Agent 6 7 8 10 11 an official DOJ investigation into the death of 12 inmate Jeffery Epstein and the timing 13 surrounding that and you're being asked to 14 voluntarily provide answers to our questions. 15 Will you agree to a voluntary interview with 16 the DOJ OIG? 17 MR. : Yes. 18 MR. : As part of our procedure, I'm 19 going to provide you with DOJ OIG form 3226 20 226-2. I'm going to read the form out loud to 21 you and give you a chance to review it also. 22 "United States Department of Justice, Office of 23 the Inspector General Warnings and Assurances 24 to Employee Requested to Provide Information on 25 a Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to MR. : My name is Senior Special Agent MR. : Lieutenant . MR. : As I stated before, this is EFTA00115902 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 1 provide information as part of an investigation 2 being conducted by the Office of Inspector 3 General. This investigation is being conducted 4 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, 5 as amended. This investigation pertains to job 6 performance failure and security failure. This 7 is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do 8 not have to answer questions. No disciplinary 9 action will be taken against you if you choose 10 not to answer any questions. Any statement you 11 furnish may be used as evidence in any future 12 criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary 13 proceeding or both." Now the waiver for you. 14 "I understand the warnings and assurances 15 stated above and I am willing to make a 16 statement and answer questions. No promises or 17 threats have been made to me and no pressure or 18 coercion of any kind has been used against me." 19 Do you understand that? 20 MR. : Uh-huh. 21 MR. : Do you wish to proceed with 22 the interview? 23 MR. : Yeah. 24 MR. : Please review the document 25 and once you review the document, please sign EFTA00115903 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 where it says, "Employee signature." MR. : Do you need a pen? MR. : I have. Thank you. MR. : There's a4e line that says, "Employee signature," -- MR. : Uh-huh. MR. : -- and sign your name there and below there can you please print your name? MR. : Thank you sir. MR. : Uh-huh. MR. : I'm signing the signature of the Office of Inspector General's Special Agent. MR. : Thank you for signing the document, both of you, and for dating it 6/15/21 at 6:02 p.m. I am signing my name and signature of witness and printing my name, name of witness. MR. : Before we start the interview, I'd like to place you under oath, Mr. Can you please raise your right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? MR. : Yes. MR. : Thank you. EFTA00115904 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : I do. 2 MR. : Please let me know if you do 3 not understand any questions I ask, I'll repeat 4 it and I'll try to rephrase it for you. Okay? 5 What is your current home address? 6 MR. , Deer Park, 7 New York, 11729. 8 MR. : Your date of birth? 9 MR. 10 MR. : And what is your social 11 security number? 12 MR. : He doesn't need to 13 provide that if he doesn't want to. Would you 14 mind for the record, can you show us your 15 credentials again and then we can use that as 16 verification for your - all right. Thank you, 17 sir, for showing your credentials. I'm looking 18 at the U.S. Department of Justice Federal 19 Bureau of Prisons law enforcement officer 20 credentials, certify that is a 21 Lieutenant at the MCC New York, New York. 22 see a picture that matches the gentleman that 23 is sitting in front of us. 24 MR. : Thank you. 25 MR. : You're welcome. EFTA00115905 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 8 1 MR. : Mr. , what's your highest 2 level of education? 3 MR. : I have a —bachelors of science 4 degree. 5 MR. : In what subject? 6 MR. : Community Services. 7 MR. : What college did you receive 8 that from? 9 MR. : Empire State College. 10 MR. : What year did you receive it? 11 MR. : 2010, May. 12 MR. : 2010, May. Okay. What did 13 you do prior to working for the BOP? 14 MR. : I was in the military and I 15 worked in a law firm. 16 MR. : Thank you for your service. 17 What branch of the military? 18 MR. : United States Navy Reserves. 19 MR. : How long were you in the 20 military for? 21 MR. : 20 years, 23 days, and 21 hours 22 or something like that. 23 MR. : What was your position and 24 title when you -. 25 MR. : I was an E-6 ship service man, EFTA00115906 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 first class petty officer. 2 MR. : And are you still active in 3 the military? 4 MR. : No, I'm retired. 5 MR. : Thank you. 6 MR. : And did you retire in 7 2019? 8 MR. : Yes. 9 MR. : October? 10 MR. : October 2019. 11 MR. : How long have you served with 12 the Federal Bureau of Prisons? 13 MR. : Thirteen years. 14 MR. : Thirteen years? And what was 15 the entry on duty date? 16 MR. : July 22 - I mean, January 22nd, 17 2008. 18 MR. : Did you graduate from BOP 19 training? 20 MR. : Yes. 21 MR. : What year? 22 MR. : 2008, March. 23 MR. : Okay. When and where was 24 your first office assignment with the BOP? 25 MR. : Brooklyn, MDC Brooklyn. EFTA00115907 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : That was in 2008? 2 MR. : Yes. 3 MR. : And what positions - how long 4 did you stay at the MDC for? 5 MR. : Five and a half years. 6 MR. : Five and a half? 7 MR. : I stayed there from 2008— teo 8 October 5, 2013. 9 MR. : Where did you go in October? 10 MR. : MCC New York. 11 MR. : Was it a promotion or 12 lateral? 13 MR. : Lateral. 14 MR. : Okay. When did you get - 15 what was the next step, promotion that you got? 16 MR. : GS-8. 17 MR. : To what position? 18 MR. : MCC New York, Senior Officer 19 Specialist. 20 MR. : And what year was that? 21 MR. : Think, I'm going toe say 2015? 22 MR. : Okay. And what was the next 23 promotion after that? 24 MR. : GS-9. 25 MR. : GS-9 what? What was the EFTA00115908 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 title? MR. : I was a Counselor. MR. : Okay. And after that? MR. : GS-11 Lieutenant. MR. : When did you become a Lieutenant? MR. : I was temp Lieutenant in 2016. 8 Then, I got 2000, I think `17, I got promoted 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 to - orr `18 I got promoted to GS-11. MR. : What was your position at the MCC on August 9th and 10th -- MR. : I was a -. MR. : -- of 2019? MR. : I was a Lieutenant. MR. : I'll read it. MR. : Okay. MR. : So we have a - is it 18 correct that you were interviewed already by 19 the FBI and the OIG? 20 MR. : Yes. 21 MR. : Regarding the matter 22 leading up to Epstein's death on August 9th -. 23 MR. : Correct. 24 MR. : Great. Thank you. I'm 25 just going to read the report that was created EFTA00115909 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 12 1 from that interview. It is an FBI report so I 2 can't physically hand it to you but because the 3 OIG was there, it's our information to ask, 4 that's why I'll be able to read it to you. 5 Just, as I'm reading it, just let me know if 6 there's anything that's inaccurate and then 7 I'll probably stop along the way to just kind 8 of ask for a little bit more collaborations. 9 It says, "Prior to employment with the Bureau 10 of Prisons, was a Paralegal at Skadden Law 11 Firm." 12 MR. : Skadden. 13 MR. : Skadden, S-K-A-D-D-E-N. 14 MR. : Uh-huh. 15 MR. : "He worked litigation, 16 pro Bono, mergers and acquisitions for 17 approximately 10 years." And was that 18 approximately from 1998 to 2008? 19 MR. : Approximately. 20 MR. : Okay. has also 21 been an enlisted Navy Reservist for the last 20 22 years. was employed as a Corrections 23 Officer with the BOP in June 1999 at the 24 Metropolitan Detention Center herein after 25 MDC," is that correct? EFTA00115910 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. : It was January. MR. : January of 1999? MR. : Where? MR. This is saying that I don't think this was correct. So, it says that you were with the MDC since June of 1999. MR. : I was there - no, not '99, no. MR. : I thought you said in 2008 you started. MR. : 2008 I said I started. Yeah, not '99. MR. : All right. So you started with the MDC - with the BOP and at the MDC in -- MR. : 2000 -. MR. •-- January of 2008. MR. '08. Yes. MR. Okay. transitioned to the BOP Metropolitan Correction Center, or the MCC, on," it says, "October 5, 2013." MR. : Yes. MR. : "He was later promoted to the rank of Lieutenant on July 8, 2018." MR. : Yeah, July sometime. MR. : Okay. was the EFTA00115911 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 1 Special Housing Unit, or SHU, Lieutenant for 2 approximately 90 days since Lieutenants rotate 3 throughout the MCC every 90 days." Is that 4 correct? 5 MR. : Uh-huh. 6 MR. : According to , his 7 duties and responsibilities were as follows." 8 So prior to us going on. So you were 90 days 9 up until this incident? Were you just about to 10 rotate out of the SHU then? 11 MR. : No. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : I was just still the SHU 14 Lieutenant. 15 MR. : So were you -. 16 MR. : So -. 17 MR. : So the way that this 18 reads is almost like you were only there for 90 19 days. Were you there for 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : -- longer than 90 days? 22 MR. : Well, I was taken out because I 23 was out on an injury. 24 MR. : Prior to that though, how 25 long were you the SHU Lieutenant? EFTA00115912 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 1 MR. : Yeah, for about - because we 2 switch. I was on the desk and just before, I 3 think, like program review or something like 4 that, after program review, they put me up 5 there. 6 MR. : All right. But all of 7 July and August of 2000 -- 8 MR. : Yeah, I was - yeah. 9 MR. : -- and `19, so, okay. So 10 you were the SHU Lieutenant for all - at least 11 July and 12 MR. : Uh-huh. 13 MR. : -- August and a little 14 bit prior. 15 MR. : Yeah. Uh-huh. 16 MR. : So it says, "According to 17 duties and responsibilities are as 18 follows. Control max wing, 10 south and 19 oversee the regular SHU." 20 MR. : Uh-huh. 21 MR. : And 10 south, my 22 understanding is that's the very high profile 23 inmates that have one inmate per cell, there's 24 constant supervision by cameras on them -- 25 MR. : Cameras. EFTA00115913 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : -- at all times? 2 MR. : Uh-huh. 3 MR. : Okay. Maybe like 4 terrorists? 5 MR. : Uh-huh. 6 MR. : People that go into those 7 - okay. You supervise employees, you control 8 moves, you oversee segregation reviews 9 hereinafter referred to as SROs. "Ensure 10 inmates are given what they have coming." What 11 does that mean? "Ensure inmate -. 12 MR. : That means, whatever the 13 institution - if they have - they need soap, 14 they get soap. If they need toilet paper, they 15 get toilet paper. If they need a pen, pad to 16 write on, they get it. 17 MR. : So the supplies that 18 they're -- 19 MR. : Supplies that they -- 20 MR. : -- required, you ensure - 21 22 MR. : -- that - I ensure that they -. 23 MR. : -- that they receive what 24 they -- 25 MR. : Yes. EFTA00115914 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : -- what they require. 2 MR. : Uh-huh. 3 MR. : Okay. And then the next 4 thing that they wrote was, "A lot." So I'm 5 assuming what they meant is you have a lot of 6 responsibilities. 7 MR. : Yes. 8 MR. : is generally the 9 Monday through Friday, 6:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. 10 shift supervisor." 11 MR. : Yes. 12 MR. : Were you working a lot of 13 overtime there? 14 MR. : Yes. 15 MR. : And when you were doing 16 your OT, were you also in the SHU? 17 MR. : Yes. 18 MR. : Okay. Would that be -. 19 MR. : Because as the Operations 20 Lieutenant, you've got to go to Special 21 Housing. 22 MR. : Okay. So if you were 23 doing OT, you weren't necessarily the SHU 24 Lieutenant, you were the Operations Lieutenant 25 EFTA00115915 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : No. 2 MR. : -- you were the 3 Operations Lieutenant, but you covered the SHU. 4 MR. : Or activities, yes. 5 MR. : So you were - you would - 6 7 MR. : So. 8 MR. : So during your OT shifts, 9 you typically would do either Aectivities or 10 Operations Lieutenant? 11 MR. : Yes. 12 MR. : And were you doing that 13 almost on like a daily basis up until then? 14 MR. : Something like that. Uh-huh. 15 MR. : And would it typically be 16 like the morning watch or the evening watch or 17 18 MR. : Any shift. 19 MR. : Any? 20 MR. : Yes. 21 MR. : Was a lot of it mandated 22 or voluntary or both? 23 MR. : It was - I mean, it was short, 24 so, you know. 25 MR. : Like, like, like EFTA00115916 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 1 forbidding, you've served as both Activities 2 and the Ops -- 3 MR. : Uh-huh. 4 MR. : -- Lieutenant, so you're 5 familiar with those duties and 6 responsibilities, correct? 7 MR. : Yes. 8 MR. : Great. 9 MR. : Uh-huh. 10 MR. : All right. So, "- 11 advised that there is a mandatory quarterly 12 training in the SHU program for BOP employees." 13 Now, have you ever conducted that training? 14 MR. : Yes. 15 MR. : You've participated? 16 MR. : Uh-huh. 17 MR. : Okay, great. And do you 18 know of the individuals that were working in 19 the SHU for their quarterly assignments had 20 also received that training at the time? 21 MR. : Some have received that 22 training. 23 MR. : Possibly not all? 24 MR. : But possibly not all. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00115917 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 1 MR. : But if they didn't, you know, 2 we went around and we showed them, you know, 3 showed them training. 4 MR. : Okay. So anybody that 5 hadn't gone -- 6 MR. : So -- 7 MR. : -- to that training -. 8 MR. : -- people that was assigned 9 that were supposed to be there, went to the 10 training. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. : And if they didn't go for 13 whatever reason, if they was out sick or 14 whatever, I tried to get them trained, you 15 know, give them the PowerPoint and go over the 16 training with them, you know, hands on. 17 MR. : Now, are you the person 18 that would present the training at the 19 quarterly training? 20 MR. : Yes. 21 MR. : Okay. So as the -. 22 MR. : Normally the SHU Lieutenant 23 does. 24 MR. : Okay. So you provided 25 probably the last quarterly training and then EFTA00115918 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 1 anyone who didn't attend that training, you 2 provided them personal training yourself? 3 MR. : Yes. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MR. : But I don't know if I did it. 6 The prior SHU Lieutenant probably gave the 7 training. 8 MR. : Okay. Had you done it in 9 the past? 10 MR. : Yes. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. : Uh-huh. 13 MR. : "He also reviews 292 14 forms which track an inmate's meals, 15 recreation, medical attention and showers." Is 16 that like the forms that go into their 17 personnel file? 18 MR. : Yes. Uh-huh. 19 MR. : And those files in the 20 SHU, they're kept in the SHU? 21 MR. : Yes. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MR. : The on thely computer - they're 24 supposed to be printed out every week -- 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00115919 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. : -- because you've got to go backwards. MR. printed out on MR. printed out MR. • : And as I'm told, they're Sundays? Yes. They're supposed to be like on Sunday morning watch. : Okay. MR. : Put into the file and, you know, because it's a new week. The new week -- MR. : Uh-huh. MR. is going to start because that morning is breakfast. So it's breakfast, and it goes B-D - wait, how does it go, breakfast, lunch, dinner, so it goes B-L-D. So, breakfast is first at 6 o'clock, or, you know, 5:44, whatever time the count cleared is breakfast. And then, lunch and then dinner. MR. : Okay. So you said on Sundays, is there typically one person that works on Sundays or is it -- MR. : No, it's MR. : -- whoever is working -- MR. : -- always -. MR. : -- on that side? MR. : It's always - yeah. It's EFTA00115920 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 always supposed to be two up there 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : -- on - on -. 4 MR. : But it's not like 5 typically the same two is what I'm asking? 6 MR. : Yeah, no. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MR. : Huh-uh. 9 MR. : So it's whoever is 10 working that shift -- 11 MR. : Whoever is working. 12 MR. : -- on a Sunday. 13 MR. : Yeah. Hopefully, you know, 14 well, we had a steady OIC, but he got out, he 15 got injured and was out sick, so, you know, 16 it's by the luck of the draw, whoever is 17 available. 18 MR. : Okay. So who was the 19 officer in charge or OIC who got injured? 20 MR. : For morning watch, I don't 21 know. 22 MR. : No, no, no, who got 23 injured, who got out? 24 MR. : Oh, it was (Phonetic 25 Sp. *00:17:46), I think it was, but he was - EFTA00115921 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 1 yeah, he was out. 2 MR. : And about when did he go 3 out? 4 MR. : I don't remember. 5 MR. : All right. But in 6 August, do you remember if there was an OIC? 7 MR. : I don't remember. 8 MR. : You don't remember? 9 Sure. 10 MR. : I have to look at the roster - 11 I don't -. 12 MR. : Absolutely. Do you have 13 the rosters? Just when we ask some of these 14 questions, you might want to just be able to 15 kind of look at this to be able to kind of 16 refresh your memory. 17 MR. : Uh-huh. 18 MR. : And so, Special Agent 19 is giving you, or I will be giving you 20 the - one is going to be the duty assignment 21 roster from August 9th and the other one is 22 going to be from August 10th. 23 MR. : Uh-huh. 24 MR. : I'm sure you're familiar 25 with these. EFTA00115922 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 1 MR. : Uh-huh. 2 MR. : Sure. So you'll be able 3 to like if -- 4 MR. : Uh-huh. 5 MR. : -- the SHU is towards the 6 bottom and then who was on duty. It'll show 7 you the Oeps, you know, the Oeps Lieutenant and 8 the Activities Lieutenant, so on and so forth. 9 All right. So, it says, "Every SHU inmate has 10 an associated 292 form as long as they are in 11 the SHU population." 12 MR. : Uh-huh. 13 MR. : "Once they rotate to 14 another population, the form is invalid and no 15 longer exists." Now, what does that mean? Do 16 we—they destroy the forms? 17 MR. : No. So what happens is, okay, 18 the way the program operates is, once you come 19 out of the SHU program, like say for instance, 20 if you key to suicide watch area, your original 21 form, or whatever form, is, if it didn't get 22 printed, if there's a form there, but that 23 stops, the time stops. 24 MR. : You mean they create a 25 new form for every housing unit you go into is EFTA00115923 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 what you're saying. MR. : No. Only 292s are in the Special Housing Unit, it's not MR. : Okay. MR. : -- in general population. MR. : Okay. So is there -- MR. : So MR. : -- one in suicide watch and -. MR. : No. MR. : No. MR. : On suicide watch, there's booklets and there's - it says, namcs ofthere's a form where it shows, did the inmate eat? Did the inmate, you know, get a shower? Like that. MR. : Okay. But what does it mean when it says that they wrote, "Once they rotate to another population the form is invalid and no longer exists?" Are they referring -. MR. : Is not in the program. They're not in the program so I cannot -. MR. : It doesn't continue. MR. : It doesn't continue, yeah. MR. : But it doesn't, like, get EFTA00115924 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 destroyed, it remains MR. : No. MR. : -- in their file. MR. : If it gets printed. MR. : But it -. MR. : But, like, say - once they come off the SHU program, right? I mean, you could go back and see if the individual was there. But once they come off the program, I cannot create a document for you. MR. : Sure. So are the documents maintained electronically? MR. : It's a program, so I don't - as long as you in the SHU program, in the roster, because SENTRY and BectBER—BOPWare (Chonctic Cp. *00:20:13) talk to each other. Right? And so what happens is if a person is keyed into SHU, there's a little box you have to press. MR. : Uh-huh. MR. : In BOTLEERBOPWare, and it's timestamped. So, once that person is there, it creates an AD order, administrative detention order. Once that administrative detention order is set, the Lieutenant writes in there why the individual was placed in Special EFTA00115925 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 Housing -- 2 MR. : Uh-huh. 3 MR. : -- has to be a reason. If that 4 form is not filled out, the Captain gets an 5 email from the region saying there's a blank AD 6 order in here, right? So I used to go in there 7 and look every morning to see if somebody, 8 whoever got placed in Special Housing to see 9 what the charges was or if that form was filled 10 out. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. : If that form wasn't filled out, 13 I look at the Lieutenant's log or I call the 14 Lieutenant, whoever, you know, "Why did this 15 inmate get locked up?" Normally when I do my 16 rounds, I ask the inmates, "Why are you up 17 here?" Some of them lie and they, "I don't 18 know why I'm up here," whatever. But then I 19 find out why they up there, then I know why. 20 It could be SIS investigation, it could be 21 because of a fight. 22 MR. : Sure. 23 MR. : It could be multiple reasons 24 why the AD order wasn't created. However, we 25 try to create and do the AD order to place the EFTA00115926 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 29 1 inmate so that he can have a 292 and he'd be on 2 the SHU report. 3 MR. : So what I'm asking though 4 is -- 5 MR. : Uh-huh. 6 MR. : -- once it's created, 7 once they're there and once this 292 is 8 created, even if it's not printed out, is it 9 maintained in the system? 10 MR. : Yes. 11 MR. : And is it ever deleted? 12 MR. : No. 13 MR. : So that's what I'm 14 asking. So when this says, "Ceases to exist," 15 I just want to make sure, is once they leave 16 the SHU, it's not deleted. It's still always 17 going to exist in a file. 18 MR. : I mean, long - you've got a 19 register number, you could go back, but I don't 20 know how long the program, you could go back 21 and forth to pull a 292. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MR. : You know, once the person is 24 out of SHU. You know, some forms you can go 25 back and you can pull it. EFTA00115927 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : But it'll stop at the day that 3 that person was released or, you know, placed 4 in another housing unit. 5 MR. : Okay. Now, people that 6 are in the SHU and gets placed in another 7 housing unit, the papers that were printed out, 8 what is done with those? 9 MR. : Those goes to the unit team. 10 MR. : Okay. So that goes, if 11 they went to a different housing unit, it goes 12 13 MR. : It goes to the -- 14 MR. : -- to the unit. 15 MR. unit team and the mailbox, 16 their file, you know, it tells you on the 17 thing, "Copy to unit team for central file." 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. : And it goes into their - 20 supposed to go into their folder. 21 MR. : But it's not destroyed 22 either? 23 MR. : No. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. : Huh-uh. EFTA00115928 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 31 1 MR. : It says, "Medical 2 personnel visit the SHU twice a day for rounds 3 in the mornings and the evenings." And it that 4 every day? 5 MR. : Yes. 6 MR. : So - on weekends too? 7 MR. : Yes. 8 MR. : So medical personnel 9 visit the SHU two times a day, okay. 10 MR. : Two - twice per shift, yes. 11 MR. : Around when do they 12 usually show up? Is there -. 13 MR. : Depends. Sometimes they there 14 at, you know, 7 o'clock, 6 o'clock in the 15 morning and then, again, they come up after the 16 4 o'clock count or they might come up before 17 that. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. : You know, when shift changes. 20 MR. : But they actually 21 participate in the rounds? 22 MR. : Yes. 23 MR. : Okay. regularly 24 audits 292 forms from the previous day." So 25 you'd be constantly seeing, making sure your EFTA00115929 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 1 staff are doing what they're supposed to be 2 doing -- 3 MR. : Uh-huh. 4 MR. : -- with those forms? 5 Okay. advised that accountability of 6 inmates is important. He never caught anyone 7 intentionally not doing their job. also 8 reviews round forms and searches for red flags. 9 These could be missing spaces, missing 10 signatures, etcetera. If caught, 11 approaches the individual and requests an 12 explanation." So have you ever caught someone 13 then not doing rounds or -- 14 MR. : Uh-huh. 15 MR. : -- anyone that was 16 working on that day - on August 9th or 10th 17 that was working in the SHU? Did you ever have 18 to discuss this matter with any of those 19 individuals? 20 MR. : Naw. 21 MR. : There's no one in there 22 that you can - that were working on either day? 23 MR. : Not that I know of, no. 24 MR. : Okay. Can you think of 25 anyone that you did ever have to deal with for EFTA00115930 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 not conducting rounds or counts? 2 MR. : On day watch, you know, we 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would ask, "You're doing showers, we down range, we doing this." It gots to get filled out after, you know, that -. MR. : But can you think of anyone that you actually had to - that you caught not doing it? Or I should say, your last day at work was on August 8th. Who was the last person you caught not (Indiccornible *00:26:01)conducting rounds in the -- MR. : Oh, I don't remember. MR. : SHU? You don't? MR. : I don't remember. MR. : Okay. That's fine. MR. : No, sir. MR. : But you don't believe it was any of the people that were working? MR. : No. MR. : Okay. was the SHU Lieutenant when Epstein was assigned. Epstein wasn't originally in the SHU. advised Epstein was in 10 South Lower." MR. : Uh-huh. MR. : "The population is for EFTA00115931 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 inmates not on 10 South but high-profile." 2 Okay, so this is the first. There's two 3 different 10 Souths? 4 MR. : No. There's 10 South, then 5 there's 10 South Lower. 6 MR. : What's 10 South Lower? 7 I don't know -. 8 MR. : G Tier. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. : All right? G Tier has four 11 cells where you can put high-profile or 12 terrorist inmates if 10 South is full. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. : 10 South only holds a maximum 15 of six inmates. 16 MR. : So was he originally 17 going to go to 10 18 South then and was changed -. 19 MR. : Oh, I don't know. 20 MR. : So -. 21 MR. : When I got there, he was on G 22 Tier. 23 MR. : Okay. So I thought you 24 just said that 10 South Lower is for people 25 that were going if 10 South was full. EFTA00115932 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 1 MR. : They can put you on the Tier, 2 but they put a lot of - they put disruptive 3 inmates on that tier. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MR. : So it's not up to me, it's up 6 to that shift Lieutenant. 7 MR. : Sure. 8 MR. : But, if the Captain or somebody 9 or, you know, the Warden or somebody, "Hey, put 10 that guy on G Tier and then that's where he's 11 going," that's where that individual will go. 12 That's where he will be housed if that 13 individual was disruptive or anything like 14 that. 15 MR. : And do you how long he 16 was on 10 South Lower approximately? 17 MR. : I don't know. 18 MR. : Was it a long time? 19 MR. : I don't know. 20 MR. : You don't know? 21 MR. : Like, when he - I guess, you 22 know, when he got there to the institution, he 23 was put on - he was on G Tier. 24 MR. : G Tier is 10 South Lower? 25 MR. : Yes. EFTA00115933 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 1 MR. : Okay. Is 10 South Lower 2 similar to 10 South in the sense that it's one 3 inmate per cell? 4 MR. : Yes. 5 MR. : And are there cameras in 6 those -. 7 MR. : Yes. 8 MR. : All right, so it's set up 9 pretty much the same way as 10 South? 10 MR. : Yes. 11 MR. : So he was never placed in 12 the general population. 13 MR. : I don't think so. 14 MR. : Okay. So when he came 15 in, you believe he was first put on 10 South 16 Lower and then transferred to the SHU. 17 MR. : Yes. 18 MR. : Okay. And you had 19 oversight -- 20 MR. : When -. 21 MR. : -- though -. 22 MR. : When - when -. 23 MR. : You have oversight over 24 25 MR. : When he was -. EFTA00115934 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : -- 10 South. 2 MR. : When he was moved off of G 3 Tier, if that's the question you're asking me, 4 and placed with a bunkie, that didn't come from 5 me. 6 MR. : Sure. Who does - so, did 7 you supervise both 10 South, 10 South Lower and 8 the regular SHU? 9 MR. : Yeah, and the regular SHU, yes. 10 MR. : Okay. And is that all 11 the same -- 12 MR. : That's all the same. 13 MR. : -- kind of unit? 14 MR. : Uh-huh. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. : It's one big unit. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MR. : Upstairs is a separate unit 19 because it's not on - only unit that's 10 South 20 Lower is in the Special Housing Unit. 21 MR. : Okay. So that's 22 MR. : It's on the Special Housing 23 Unit count. 24 MR. : So your understanding 25 though is Epstein was always somewhere in that EFTA00115935 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 unit, in 10 - the SHU unit. 2 MR. : Yes. 3 MR. : Whether lower or just 4 regular SHU. 5 MR. : Yes. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. : I got a - just one 8 MR. : Uh-huh. 9 MR. : You just mentioned - you said 10 that the G Tier, the 10 South Lower, is always 11 part of the SHU count. 12 MR. : Yes. 13 MR. : So is that ZA or ZS? 14 MR. : ZA. 15 MR. : ZA. Okay. 16 MR. : Uh-huh. 17 MR. : ZA or -. 18 MR. : ZB is 10 South. 19 MR. : So ZA was the whole 20 thing. 21 MR. : No. 22 MR. : Oh, can we have you look 23 at these counts then, just for clarification? 24 MR. : It should be - look - if you 25 look at - if you pull up the document for the EFTA00115936 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 El that you just flipped by. 2 MR. : Yeah. 3 MR. : Okay? You look at the El, it 4 got ZA and ZB. ZB has the shorter count. 5 MR. : So ZA says - so I'm 6 looking at the count from 8/9/2015, the time on 7 it shows 1541, so I guess it's the 3:00 p.m. 8 There is no 3:00 p.m. 9 MR. : 4:00 p.m. 10 MR. : 4:00 p.m. count? 11 MR. : Yeah. That was actually when 12 it was created. 13 MR. : It shows for ZA, there 14 were 75, for ZB it says 5. 15 MR. : Yes. ZB is always shorter. 16 MR. : So what I was saying, 17 isn't the 75 count the entire SHU? 18 MR. : It's ZA. 19 MR. : Not -. 20 MR. : It's not - 10 South is not 21 included because 10 South is a separate unit. 22 MR. : Right. 23 MR. : The G Tier is part of ZA -- 24 MR. : Correct. 25 MR. : -- not ZB. EFTA00115937 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 40 1 MR. : So that's what we were 2 asking -- 3 MR. : Yes, yes. 4 MR. : -- is that ZA - the 10 5 South Lower is incorporated with the whole of 6 the regular SHU. 7 MR. : ZA, yes. 8 MR. : And ZB is just 10 South. 9 MR. : Yes. 10 MR. : Right. "Epstein was 11 assigned to cell 201 in the SHU. During their 12 first - okay, is that correct? 13 MR. : I guess. I don't know. 14 MR. : "During their first 15 encounter, Epstein asked , `Am I going to 16 get out of here?' remembers Epstein 17 frequenting the attorney conference area for 18 long periods of time." Is it true that at 19 almost - while he was assigned to the SHU was 20 just about every day he was in the - he would 21 go to the attorney area? 22 MR. : Yes. 23 MR. : Okay. advised that 24 at one point during the beginning at a meeting 25 with MCC Executive Management, they wanted to EFTA00115938 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 house Epstein with a bunkie. doesn't 2 recall exactly who requested this action, 3 however, he remembers they were trying to 4 identify an inmate. Ultimately, they decided 5 to house Epstein with Tartaglione. wasn't 6 asked for his input and followed Executive 7 Management orders. There was an instant on 8 7/23/2019 between the two but it didn't occur 9 on shift. He heard about it the next 10 day. Lieutenant completed the 583 11 packet which includes memos and photos 12 resulting from the incident." So although you 13 weren't there, were you familiar with what 14 happened or had -. 15 MR. : I'm a Lieutenant, so I have to 16 know. 17 MR. : So were - did you hear 18 anything about him either trying to commit 19 suicide or his cell mate attempting to kill 20 him? 21 MR. : I don't recall. 22 MR. : So what is it that you 23 recall from it? 24 MR. : I just know I - you know, you 25 read in this day chart that he tried to hang EFTA00115939 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 1 himself and I looked at the 583, I looked at 2 the pictures, saw the pictures. 3 MR. : So your understanding -- 4 MR. 5 MR. : -- was that he tried to 6 hang himself. 7 MR. : Yes. 8 MR. : Had you -. 9 MR. : And his bunkie, you know, 10 guess called out or whatever. They went - 11 they, you know, Lieutenant or 12 whatever, she did what she had to do. He was 13 on suicide watch the next day and, you know, 14 that was pretty much it. 15 MR. : And what -. 16 MR. : You know, I don't recall 17 everything, you know, it's - I - you read it 18 briefly, but I was -. 19 MR. : So, do you know what 20 happened with his cell mate? Did he remain in 21 the SHU? 22 MR. : Yeah. 23 MR. : Did he get placed with 24 another cell mate? 25 MR. : Oh, I don't remember. EFTA00115940 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 1 MR. : Are inmates in the SHU 2 required to have cellmates when they're in the 3 SHU? 4 MR. : Yes. However, there's 5 exceptions because some of them you can't house 6 them with nobody. 7 MR. : And is that because they 8 would get harmed if they were housed with 9 someone? 10 MR. : Yes. 11 MR. : And is that what - is 12 that part of what 10 South Lower is for or is 13 that - it's just regular SHU, the inmates know? 14 MR. : Just like some have on their 15 door, "Housing rec alone," because they could 16 have multiple SAMDsteps. Some of them, you 17 know, they could be fear for their life. You 18 always, you know, you have that, but we try to 19 bunk up everybody. 20 MR. : All right, so aside from 21 these special exceptions, inmates are supposed 22 to have -. 23 MR. : Yeah, we try to bunk everybody 24 up. Yeah. 25 MR. : Now is that policy or EFTA00115941 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 1 just a decision that was made? 2 MR. : No, that's something that, you 3 know, from when I started at the Bureau, we did 4 that, because once you knew individuals receive 5 - you can't - policy states that you're not 6 supposed to have an AD, Administrative 7 Detention person and a person that's under 8 disciplinary segregation together, housed 9 together. It's supposed to be separate. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MR. : That's the policy that they 12 that's 5270, you know, point whatever the new 13 number is, 9 or 10, right, the SHU program 14 statement. When Psychology says that this 15 person tried to harm themselves, we make sure 16 that they have to have a bunkie. So, you know, 17 they have a companion or somebody in there that 18 they could talk to so that, you know, they 19 don't feel despondent, you know. SHU is a 20 place, you know, if you don't check on these 21 inmates, you know, they're going to remind you. 22 MR. : Right. 23 MR. : So, you know, you've got to 24 make rounds, you've got to check on - be 25 checking on these inmates. You've got to be EFTA00115942 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 seeing what they're doing, you know. T- 2 tough place. 3 MR. : Yeah. 4 MR. : You know. 5 MR. : So, inmates that aren't a 6 special situation should have a cell mate and 7 especially inmates that are coming back from 8 suicide watch -- 9 MR. : Yes. 10 MR. : -- they, in particular, 11 should have a 12 MR. . Te—Should have a cell mate. 13 Yeah. 14 MR. : Okay. It says, " 15 recalls interaction with Epstein on watch 16 Epstein stated, `I don't want to be here and 17 I'm going to hurt myself.'" He said that to 18 you? 19 MR. : I don't recall saying that. 20 MR. : All right. So again, it 21 says, " recalls interacting with Epstein on 22 watch. Epstein stated, `I don't want to be 23 here and I'm going to hurt myself.'" 24 MR. : I'm -. 25 MR. : You don't believe that's EFTA00115943 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 1 accurate? 2 MR. : I'm not going to hurt myself. 3 MR. : Oh, not going to hurt -. 4 MR. : Oh, no, sorry, "I'm not - 5 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. : -- going to hurt myself." 8 MR. : I don't remember him saying 9 that. 10 MR. : So, okay, so did he say 11 that, "I don't want to be here and I'm not 12 going to hurt myself?" 13 MR. : Yeah, he said that to me. 14 MR. : He did tell you that? 15 MR. : Yeah. 16 MR. : Okay. 17 MR. : But a lot of inmates say that, 18 you know, "Oh, I'm not going to hurt myself." 19 They look you right in your face and like, 20 "Yeah, and those markings on your neck say 21 something totally different." 22 MR. : So would have that -- 23 MR. : But -. 24 MR. : -- would have he said 25 this to you after he came back from suicide EFTA00115944 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 watch -- 2 MR. : Yeah. 3 MR. the second time 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. I'm assuming? 6 MR. : I mean, because I escorted him 7 to attorney conference, you know, I'm the one 8 I had interactions with him, you know, he 9 talked to me or whatever, you know. No special 10 privileges, you know. But I treated him like I 11 treat anybody else, as a decent human being. 12 MR. : Okay. Was he telling you 13 this though so that he wouldn't be housed with 14 another inmate? 15 MR. : I don't think that. 16 MR. : Did he want to get of the 17 SHU? 18 MR. : Yes, he wanted to get out of 19 SHU. 20 MR. : And where did he want to 21 go? 22 MR. : He wanted to go, I guess, to 23 general population. 24 MR. : Did he ever say that 25 that's where he wanted to go? EFTA00115945 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Yeah. 2 MR. : He did? 3 MR. : Uh-huh. 4 MR. : He said he wanted to go 5 to general pop? 6 MR. : Uh-huh. 7 MR. : Okay. It says, " 8 also remembers feeding Epstein. The BOP 9 psychologist said that Epstein must be housed 10 with a cell mate when he returned to the SHU." 11 And this is after the July 23rd incident? 12 MR. : Yes. 13 MR. : Okay. So, he came back 14 to the SHU, do you recall, around like July 15 30th? 16 MR. : When he - whatever day he came 17 back to the SHU, he came back. 18 MR. : And then that -- 19 MR. : And -. 20 MR. : -- around that date is 21 when the psychologist said he's got to be 22 housed with a cell mate? 23 MR. : Yes. 24 MR. : Okay. provided 25 cell mate recommendations but they were still EFTA00115946 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 1 deciding on an individual when left the 2 institution that night. called to ensure 3 that he received a bunkie. BOP decision makers 4 chose Efrain Reyes." 5 MR. : Yes. 6 MR. : remembers Epstein 7 requesting to make a phone call to his 8 daughter. doesn't do phone calls because 9 he is unaware of every inmates restricted 10 contact list." 11 MR. : Yeah. I don't make phone 12 calls. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. : That's the unit team. 15 MR. : All right. We're going 16 to go back to Reyes. 17 MR. : Or if somebody tells me I have 18 to make it directly - my direct supervisor 19 says, "Hey, give this guy a telephone call," 20 then that's something totally different. 21 MR. : All right. So after - so 22 you said around July 30 -- 23 MR. : Uh-huh. 24 MR. : -- 2019, you were 25 informed by psychology, " needs a cell EFTA00115947 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 mate," correct? 2 MR. needs a cell mate? 3 MR. : No, sorry, "Epstein needs 4 a cell mate." 5 MR. : Yeah. They sent an email, 6 something or -. 7 MR. : Right. And -. 8 MR. : I know the Captain and the 9 warden, they was like, "He has to have a cell 10 mate." 11 MR. : And told you that? 12 MR. : Yeah. 13 MR. : And then what did you do 14 with that information? Did you provide it to 15 everybody that work in the SHU? 16 MR. : Yes. 17 MR. : All right, now, can you 18 tell me a little bit about how did the people 19 that work in the SHU know that Epstein was 20 required to have a cell mate? 21 MR. : Okay. I passed it on to my 22 OIC, which was 23 MR. : And can you - do you know 24 how to spell that name? It might be on there. 25 MR. : It's - I do know how to EFTA00115948 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 spell it, he's my friend. I --3 MR. : Is it 4 MR. : 5 MR. : Is it 6 MR. : Yeah, something like that, 7 yeah. 8 MR. : Okay. So, 9 MR. : I don't know the spelling for 10 sure. 11 MR. 12 MR. : I should know how to spell his 13 name, I just got brain fart. 14 MR. : Okay. So if you told 15 him, did you tell anyone else directly? 16 MR. : No, I spoke to him. He's the 17 one that, you know, he was on the desk. 18 MR. : And then, did you inform 19 others though that were in there, that, A, 20 Epstein needs a bunk mate? Cell mate? I mean, 21 not talking about this a special time, I'm just 22 saying like, were they aware? 23 MR. : I spoke to him. If I call you, 24 then you pass along that information. I spoke 25 to , he wrote it down, I verified it. EFTA00115949 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 The next day when I came to work, he had a 2 bunkie. 3 MR. : Yeah, yeah. 4 MR. : The bunkie was there and we had 5 postings up around, "This individual needs a 6 bunkie." 7 MR. : Okay. Great. Can you 8 speak to me a little about that? 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. : You said there were 11 postings within the SHU that -. 12 MR. : On the door, on the desk, on 13 the OIC desk, there was - I believe there was 14 postings that he was supposed to have a bunkie. 15 MR. : So on the OI 16 MR. : It was written. 17 MR. : On the OIC desk, there 18 was a - or what door was there a sign? 19 MR. : On his cell door. 20 MR. : So Epstein's cell door, 21 there was a posting saying, "Epstein is 22 required to have a cell mate?" 23 MR. : Yes. 24 MR. : Okay. And do you know 25 who - if that - did that remain up until you EFTA00115950 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 left on August 8th? 2 MR. : No, because he was on suicide 3 watch. Then it was taken off. He was placed 4 with Reyes, and was in the cell, so I don't 5 recall - after I left that day, I don't know 6 what, you know - everything was in place. 7 MR. : Yeah, no, what I'm saying 8 is that prior to leaving, I'm wondering if the 9 people that worked in the SHU, because 10 obviously as you know Reyes left on the 9th and 11 you weren't there. 12 MR. : Uh-huh. 13 MR. : But did the people that 14 were in there - I want to know if the people 15 who were in the SHU 16 MR. : My crew, whoever worked - we 17 had a skinless crew. You could see who worked 18 day watch. 19 MR. : Sure. 20 MR. : Right? You can see who worked 21 evening watch. Okay? The people that were 22 there August 9th, I can't, you know, vouch for. 23 Okay? But everybody knew that was part of the 24 SHU crew -- 25 MR. : Okay. So can you look at EFTA00115951 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 MR. : -- and not everybody on this 3 list was, you know, is - these is fill ins. 4 It's not their assigned post. 5 MR. : So can you tell me who on 6 the SHU day watch crew of August 9th, who was a 7 regular and who would have known that he was 8 required to have a cell mate? 9 MR. was there, he knows. 10 He worked - he was SHU 3. knew, he was 11 Rec Specialist. knew. 12 MR. : Who is 13 MR. , he's the number one. 14 MR. : So who then on that 15 didn't know? Or you don't know if they know. 16 MR. : I don't know. I mean, 17 everybody - once the OIC knows and the crew, 18 everybody -. 19 MR. : So is it kind of like the 20 military? You're the officer, you tell your 21 head Sergeant, "Make sure everybody knows 22 this," that Sergeant is then therefore 23 responsible for telling everyone else? 24 MR. : Yes. 25 MR. : So, do you recall having EFTA00115952 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 1 conversations with these people as well though? 2 MR. : No, because they don't - 3 everybody -. 4 MR. : So it's 5 MR. : I spoke - the datc day that he 6 was required to have a bunkie, I spoke to 7 8 MR. : Sure. 9 MR. took care of it from 10 there. All I know, when I came in, I checked, 11 he had a bunkie, that was it. 12 MR. : And I understand this. 13 But what -. 14 MR. : And so, I cannot explain for 15 another shift. I cannot explain - only could 16 tell what did. I don't know what anybody 17 else did after I left. I don't know. I cannot 18 answer that. 19 MR. : Right. So like you were 20 saying, he was housed with a bunkie on July 21 30th. What we're asking is that between July 22 30th and between August 9th, the days that you 23 were there, were you conversing with these 24 people to remind them that he was required to 25 have a cell -. EFTA00115953 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 56 1 MR. : It wasn't nothing to talk about 2 because everybody knew. He wasn't by his self, 3 so he has a bunkie so -. 4 MR. : Right. But isn't it true 5 that the - at the MCC, inmates are constantly 6 coming in and out? It's more of a jail than a 7 prison? 8 MR. : Yes. But one thing don't have 9 nothing to do with - if we're working every day 10 together, I don't - why am I keep telling you 11 the same thing every day? I don't have to tell 12 you your job to what you're supposed to do 13 every day. I've got to keep reminding you to 14 feed? I have a billion other things to do. 15 MR. : But - but -. 16 MR. : So what you're saying to me, 17 cannot answer that because I don't know. 18 MR. : So, what we're asking is 19 did you have conversations with anyone on those 20 other days about the reminder that Epstein is 21 required to have a cell mate? 22 MR. : I had a conversation with the 23 crew and I don't keep repeating myself. He has 24 a bunkie. Every day I come in, I check, he's 25 got a bunkie. What is there to talk about? If EFTA00115954 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 it's way down -. 2 MR. : What we're asking is -. 3 MR. : I don't know - I don't under-. 4 MR. : You're saying that you 5 had a conversation with the one man who was the 6 Officer in Charge. What I'm asking you is, did 7 you have a conversation with anyone else aside 8 from him? Between July 30th and August 9th, 9 did you have any conversations 10 MR. : I don't recall. 11 MR. : -- with anyone -- 12 MR. : I don't recall. 13 MR. : -- other than the Officer 14 in Charge. 15 MR. : I don't recall. 16 MR. : Okay. So you said that 17 there was a sticky that was on the door. Was 18 the sticky only on the door on July 30th or did 19 it remain on the door from July 30th to August 20 8th? 21 MR. : It remained up there, it was on 22 the desk. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. : A big sign that said, "Epstein 25 is supposed to have a bunkie," on the desk, on EFTA00115955 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 58 1 the officer's station. 2 MR. : And that stayed on there 3 throughout -. 4 MR. : I guess, I don't know. It - 5 all I know, when I left, everything was in 6 place. I'm not there right now. Things could 7 change. I don't know. I cannot answer that. 8 MR. : What Agent is 9 asking is -. 10 MR. : Where were you sitting 11 when you were in the SHU? Is there a special 12 place for you? 13 MR. : I sit in like on next to 10 14 South. 15 MR. : Okay. So are you not 16 with the correctional officers? 17 MR. : No. 18 MR. : All right. And how -. 19 MR. : I come down, I make rounds. 20 MR. : So you're not sure if - 21 so you know that on July 30th there was this 22 Posted It =note saying that Epstein required a 23 cell -- 24 MR. : Yes. 25 MR. : -- cell mate. Are what EFTA00115956 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 59 1 you're saying is that you don't know if that 2 sticky note stayed on that after he was issued 3 some -. 4 MR. : It was there when I was up 5 there on the 8th. 6 MR. : That was my question. 7 Okay. 8 MR. : Yeah. It was something was 9 written -- 10 MR. : So -. 11 MR. : -- that Epstein should have a 12 bunkie. It was something on the desk, yes, 13 there was something there. 14 MR. : And that was the 15 question. 16 MR. : On the 8th. 17 MR. : So, on Aug