Document text
Accession no.
W 3...)7
Date received
1d/1 /4u
Consignment no.
1
Shipped from
Uff ice
Label
Amount
15p
V; r S UNIT
WPA L. C. PROJECT
Form -3
.11".0• r 3 Collection (or Type)
TftleAmoriosn.lives OeGina: There's a
gArl who livea over.,,
Place of origin Chij., Illinois Date__7./2 )39
Project worker AbO Aaron
Project editor
Remarks
Forms to be Filled out for Each Interview
FORM A
Circumstances of Interview
STATE
NAME OF NORKER
ADDRESS
DATE
SUBJECT
1. Date and time of interview
2. Place of interview
3. Name and address of informant
FOLKLORE
ONO.=
CHICAGO
Illinois
Abe Aaron
5471 Ellis Ave., Chicago, Illinois
July 21, 1939
American Lives
4. Name and address of person, if any,
who put you in touch with informant.
5. Name and address of person, if any, accompanying you
6. Description of room,house, surroundings, etc.
(Use as many additional sheets as necessary, for any of the forms, each bearing
the proper heading and the number to which the material refers.)
W 3607
FORM B
Personal History of Informant
STATE
NAME OF ViORKER
ADDRESS
DATE
SUBJECT
NAME OF INFORMANT
1. Ancestry
2. Place and date of birth
3. Family
4. Placos lived in, with dates
Illinois
Abe Aaron
5471 Ellis Ave.
July 21, 1939
Gmeral
Several
5. Education, with dates
6. Occupations and accomplishments, with dates
7. Special skills and interests
8. Community and religious activities
9. Description of informant
10. Other Points gained in interview
FOLKLORE
CHICAGO
These items were gathered
at 47th and Cottage Grove
Avenue, from cab drivers
and their fridnds, sign
painters, post office
workers, habitues of the
handbook located there.
A.A.
FORA C
Text of Interview (Unedited)
FOLKLORE
CHICAGO
STATE Illinois
NAME OF WORKER Abe Aaron
ADDRESS 5471 Ellis Ave., Chicago
DATE 7-21-39
SUBJECT American Lives
NAME OF INFORMANT Several
There's a girl who lives over on Sacramento who teaches school over
on the west side, over in the Polish neighborhood. One of the Polish kids,
he had an awful bad pair of tonsils. You know how the schools nowadays
have medical examinations and all that kind of stuff. Well, the doctor
orders them tonsils to come out, ant the kid, he comes to school regular
but his tonsils, they never come out. The teacher gets sore an' she sends
a note home with the kid, sayint he can't came back to school till he's got
his tonsils out. This girl, she told me the story herself. It's true, so
help me.
Next morning there's the kid back in school again, big as life. The
teacher said, "I thought I told you you couldn't come back to school again
till your tonsils were taken out."
The kid, he says, well, his tonsils was taken out. But he'd been in
school only the day before, and the teacher's sort of sore. She says:
"How could you've had your tonsils out? -You were in school yesterday.
What doctor did it? Didn't he tell you to stay at home an' in bed?"
But the kid, he says, nope, it wasn't no doctor who took his tonsils
out, His old lady took 'em out. With a scissors. So this girl, she looks
in the kids mouth. Sure enough, he'd had his tonsils out.
That's how tough them Polacks are, tough an' dumb.
FORM C
II
Tough? That one aint nothin" to the one I heard. This one happened
in Morris' Packinl. A woman who's workinl there, she stops workin' ant
goes to the toilet. She's in there a while, ant then she comes out an'
goes to work again. While she was in there she'd had a kid. That's how
tough they are.
The kid? I don't know wRat happened to it. I'm only tellint you
what I heard. I know the guy who told it to me, an' he runs around with
a girl who works in the same place with this dame I'm tellinl you about.
She told it to him.
III
Will, I know one. And it's true, too; I know the dame. She didn't
feel sogood an' she went to see the doctor. The doe says she has bad
tonsils, an' he cuts them out. But the woman keeps oomplainin' about how
her throat feels, an' her husband, he takes a look --the doc's left a
thread hangini; you know how they do sometimes. So the husband, he says,
"I know what's wrong with you," an' he takes a pair 0 scissors an' cuts
off the thread. She aint talked right since; he cut off more'n 'e
should've.
Now, this wasn't no Polack neither, an' I know the dame. I know her
old man, too.
IV
These two guys, they meet in the saloon. I'm standin' there drinkinl
an' I hear them to:kin'. One guy, he's got a shiner, an' the other guy,
he wants ta know how 'e come ta pick it up. He says, "Jesus, how'd you
come ta get that?" This guy with the shiner, he says, "Well, ya see, Joe,
he meets me, an' le gets tv arguinl with me. Get goinl, I says to him,
or I'll mess ya up." An' doe, he picks up a common housebriok, -a common
housebricki -an' le lets me have it. So I ups ant lays 'im out stinkini."
FORM C
V
Remember when Louis fought Sohmeling the last time? -knocked him out
almost before it got started? I was listeningto the fight at a gas station
on Cottage out south here. Well, the fight's all over and the crowd's
beginning to disappear, almost before it'd had time to get together, when
along comes a Hebe. The Hebe says, "Well, how's the fight cominl?"
The attendant says, "It's all over."
The Hebe stands there a minute not saying anything and looking sort
of disappointed. He'd wanted to hear the fight. I guess; he didn't even
know yet who'd won. Then he says, *What dlya mean, it's all over?"
"Yep," the guy says, "Letitia knocked lim out."
The Hebe spits. "Phyehl" he says, "Ya don't get nothin' for yer money
anymore!" And then he walks away. I almost split a gut.
Remember when the Informer wa s plain' around town? I was down at T -'s
Bookstore one day, about that time. I was broke and I TORS trying to gat
rid of some of my first editions. T- asked me if I had a first of the
Informer.
I said, "No. Let's see, that's by Liam 01Flaherty, isn't it?"
"No," he said, "that's by Sean 01Casey."
I said, "No, lo, that's by Liam O'Flaherty." I knew damn well it
was, but Targ insisted it was by Sean 01Casey, so I finally said, "Goddamni.
Well, Goddamn," I said.
Targ said, "Why, what's wrong?"
"Oh, the hell," I said, "according to you, I've been collecting the
wrong author all these years." And with that one, I left him to think it
over.
FORM C
Vi
There's a bookseller on South Wabash who don't like browsers. I was
talkinl to him one day, an' he says, "Them browsers, I don't leave them
around." If he saw a browser with a book, he'd go up to him and say, "I
bet you don't have nough money to buy that book." He'd insult him out of
the store. When he talked about his books he'd always say, "I got a good
stock of merchandise here, a good stock ot merchandise." That's all books
meant to him, nothin' more, a good stock o' merchandise. He boasts he's
read only one book in his life. He told me what it was, but I forget. He
says, "I don't read books. I don't want to read books. I notice guys
who read books don't do no good at sellin' them." ThFt's the kind of a
guy he is.
VII
During prohibition in this here saloon all you could buy was near
beer; that is, if the barkeep didn t know you. If the barkeep knew you,
you asked for near beer ant when he brought it to you he always asked you
if you wanted it straight or spiked. If you said you wanted it spiked,
he took a bottle of alky out of his hip pocket and put a oouple drops of
alky in the beer. That was spikin' it, putting in those ooupld drops. I
used to get my beer spiked every once in a while just to see if his hand
would slip. But it never did.
VIII
We was havin' a argument with this guy, bloause he always claimed he'd
gone through the ninth grade in school ant we knew goddamn well he didn't.
After a while it gets hot an' we trip him up an' he admits he quit school
when he was in the third grade. He quit the third grade to get married. I
said to him, "You're so geddamn dumb you don't know from Tuesday." Goint
through the ninth gradel Helli
FORM C
IX
There's somethin' for you. See that sign? "Quiet, please, Men Are
Drinking." (In a tavern.)
X
There's an elderly gent who comes to this hotel to dictate love
letters to the public stenographer. It's a weekly affair. Sometimes the
letters are quite intimate. All we can figure out is that because he
doesn't write them the dame can't sue him because of them,
XI
You didn't grow up in the city, I can see that. I have. When I get
on a streetcar and I seen an empty seat, I don't make a rush for it, I
look for a puke. le sit in the back of the cur and I see a guy's eyes
light up at the sight of a vacant seat and he makes for it, and I km.w
there's a farmer."
XII
They say that house is really high class. They guarantee you won't
get no disease there. But if you do, they fix you up; they pay the doctor
and the hospital bills. Only they charge you like hell, they charge twenty-
five bucks a crack.
Naw, I aint never been there.
XIII
I went down to Grant Park one night real early. There Was same guest
artist there i wanted to hear, this blind pianist. I sat right behind the
rows they reserve for the critics. There was an old white-haired guy in
the critics' raw --I figured he WS from one of the newspapers. He kept
stealing 1Loks at a paper he had with him all through the concert, and I
got to wondering what it was he Was SO inteerested in. When the concert
was over, he laid the paper down on his seat. I hung around a while, try-
ing to get a look at it. Finally I did. What do you think it was?
FORM C
It was the Form, the Daily Racing Form.
XIV
In the city you're always lc.okinl for someone to make you. I never
take a streetcar home on a date. I'll see a drunk, and I'll wager you
money, if I see a drunk on the car, he'll sit next to me, he'll sing or
he'll sleep on my shoulder or he'll talk to me. Why? Because he re-
cognizes a kindred spirit? Why is it? My red nose? If a guy asks me
where a place is downtown, I look him over, I wonder what's next. He
says, "Where's 75th Cottage?" and I tell him and invariably wait for
somethin' else. Invariably he'll muscle you for carfare. I .]ways
suspect anyone speaking to me at a carstop.
XV
During prohibiticn T. and I had an old jallopy, and one weekend we
took a trip up to Windsor, Ontario and back. We had a bottle of bonded
liquor with us when we started out from Chicago, meaning to drink it on
the way. At the last minute, though, B. wanted to come along. You know
B., straightlaced and prim and moral as hell. We were trying to make B.
for something or other that time --I don't remember what --and so we
decided we'd take him along. Imagine carrying a bottle of bonded stuff,
during prohibition, all the way to Windsor and back, without even so much
as smelling it.
But we did get back at B. another time, we fixed him good. T. and I
and B. were together on a trip --it was to Fort Wayne that time. We
stopped at a hotel, and T. and I had one room and B. had another. We
wAtched, and when B. was out of the room. T. slipped in and put a batch
of ice cubes in his bed. Afterwards, when B. went to bed, he jumped out
quicker than he got in. Being so straightlaced and prim, he was too
embarrassed to call for dry bedclothes from the hotel but came instead and
FORM C
pounded on our door for us to let him in. lie had the lights out and made be-
lieve we weren't in. Be spent half the night in the hall outside our door.
XVI
Once T. and I went to a Polish carnival. live got blind on Polish pop,
if you know what that is. We'd been drinking whiskey and gin before we
went out even. So you can imagine what we were like.
Out at the carnival they had a giant swing, and we decided we'd ride
it. I Was the first to start heavin'. Together'i we cleaned that whole
pork out. The guy that was running the swing, even he had to leave the
machine.
You remember Indian Joe who used to run a speed trap outside Chi-
cago here? They got him finally, the automobile association did, I think.
I know a guy who pulled a fast one on him.
Indian Joe used to have guys stand et the railroad crossing at night,
and when cars stopped for it, oneof these guys would slip up behind a
car and cut the wires to the tail light.
Then Indian Joe would pick them up and sock them a heavy fine.
C. got caught that way. C. talked Indian Joe into believing he was
a Chicago business man, driving a friend's car, and Indian Joe took a
check from him for the fine. C. signed the check *U. R. A. Pratt."
Indian Joe didn t know he'd been screwed till he went in to cash the check
.and the bank teller laughed t him. Then he traced the car and went
looking for C. with a gun. U. kept out of his way though.
XVIII
C. was a gangster. He'd never been in the really big time though.
Here's another story about him for you. A pal of his was indicted for
FORM C
murder once and skipped to Wisconsin. After he'd laid low a while, he
came back to Chicago and got a hideout in one of the suburbs. Instead
of hiding in it though, he went riding on the ttreets. It sounds
screwy as hell, but he was picked up one day ii not for murder but for
speeding. He wasn't recognized and of course he didn t give his rig'it
name. C. heard about it right away.
C. had been an assistant or deputy or something in the district
attorney's office years ago, before prohibition, and he'd managed some
way to keep his badge --probably claimed tolve lost it or something.
Anyway, soon as he heard what'd happened, he calls up this police sta-
tion. He gives his right name and everything. He tells them they've
picked up a guy for speeding who's wanted for murder in Chicago, he
tells them the guy's right name and he tells them this is the district
attorney's office and they re sending him, C., out to bring the guy in,
will they turn him over? -they'll do the Same sometime when they pick
up someone these other coppers want. It Was okay.
So C. goes out and flashes his badge and they turn the friend over
to him. The two of them jump into C's car and beat it back to Wiscon-
sin. This friend of C's, he was caught later and sent up. C. got away
with it and nothing ever happened to him. He died of heart failure one
days he was about fifty or so. He left a wife and scads of kids. They're
poor as hell; they don't have a dime.
I'll tell you wht I saW C. do one day. I saw it with my own eyes.
I Was pumping gas in thos days, and C. used to hang around the
station. He'd try to sell cars to fellows who looked right to him, and
one time, right at the station, he sold a guy a car. Gave him a song
and c dance about a guy who had e car and had to get rid of it cheap be-
cause there wes sickness in the family. He told the guy to wait, and then
he went out and stole a car like the one he'd described and brought it
FORM C
back and collected.
XIX
This guy, Ray, he's the kind o' guy who'll never pay a bill unless
it's a photo finish. There's nothin' close than a split-second lens, I
say.
XX Signpainter Talking
The trouble with workin' in the taverns is, they/re alwyys wantin,
somethin2 extra, somethin' for nothini, that old egg in their beer; an'
sometimes, when y're letterin' up a joint, ya have t' give it to them.
Bt cause they threaten t' throw the beer out if ya don't give 'em what
they want, an' ya undo all the salesman's work. Pretty soon, then, the
brewery211 be throwin, you out.
XXI Signpainter Talking
This guy I'm workin' with, his boss owns a coal and ice business.
He has a colored D -d workin' for him as a coal hiker. This colored lad's
about six foot five, an' het-Ny; he's all muscle an' bone, no fat. The
boss gets the idea a picture of this colaed lad hikin' coal oughta be used
for advertisin' on the bulletin we're paintin'. So the lad I'm workin'
with snaps a picture. The hiker's pretty pleased; he comes up lothe boss
and he says, "MX. W. you gonna put me up on that sign?" Mr. W. says yes,
an' the colored lad's pleased an' goes off laughin' to himself. "That's
fine," he says, "that's fine."
But he's workin' away there in the yard, an' while he's workinl he's
thinkint it over. Pretty soon he comes back. He says to the boss, "Mi.
W., I been thinkin' it over. I don't care if ya want ta put my picture
up there, but will ya change it just a little bit.?"
So Mr. W. asks lim why.
ya see, Mr. W.," he says "It's like this. I owe a lot o'
people in this town lots 0 money, ant if they see me up there on that
FORM C
sign, why, they're gonna know where to find me."
XXII Signpainter Talking
There's a guy, he's a helper workin' for the General Outdoor Adverti-
sin', who's keeper of the door down at the union when we hold our meetinls.
When someone's sick an' got hurt or somethini, whenever some member's in
distress an' we're takin' it up, tryinl to do somethinl about it, this
boozehound--he drinks like a fish--, he pipes up: "I recommend we pass
the hat." I never seen it fail, he always wants to pass the hat. He's
a hundred percenter. By that I mean he's a hundred percent boozehound.
XXIII Signpainter Talking
I was letterin' a saloon; it was a tavern an' restaurant, a good one
by the way. It was under the wife's name, but the guy himself was a
policeman. A policeman aint supposed to have anythin' to do with that
kind ol stuff, ya know. I thought I'd feel them along their own line.
So I said, "It's too bad that policeman got shot." We was talkin' about
that tavern hold-up where the undertaker got killed and two cops got shot.
They picked up the hold-up guys ant their moll in Detroit: next day.
Nell, ya could o' knocked me over with a feather when the old lady
pipes up. She says, "That kind 0 stuff's no good. I don't want none
ot that hero stuff. That don't go. It's like my mother always said:
he's just a nine -day wonder; nine days an' they'll forget all about him.
He had no business shooting anyway--" She was talkinl about the copper
that was sure to die-- "b'cause they had the drop on him. He chould've
put his hands up an' kept quiet. He wa.sn't even on duty. If they hadn't
started shootin', the stickup men wouldn't've started shootin' either, ant
not even the undertaker would've been shot."
FORM C
XXIV Signpainter Talking
Another joint I was letterin' up, I got to talkinl with the owner,
who's tendin' bar, ant I ask 'lin if he's in the union. For answer he
points to the union insignia up over the bar.
After ahalf hour, or maybe an hour, he pipes up: "But before I
got in I broke one guy's jaw."
I ask lim how come.
So he tells me. "Nell," he says, "when I opened up, this guy, le
comes in an' wants money, le wants the money right away. I tell lim
'e'll get it when 'e gets it, an' he says he'll picket. So I say, go
ahead an, picket. I was willint to play ball with liM, but I wanted to
show lim ya can't catch flies with vinegar; ya gotta use a little sugar,
too. He picketed for exactly forty-three minutes. I couldn't stand it
no longer, so I go out an' hit lim an' I break his jaw. He aint never
been around again."
I ask him: "Everything all right now?"
He says, "Yeh."
He was big enough to break a guy's jaw, if he ever hit him.
)001 Signpainter Talking
I was workin' out in Beverly Hills one time, letterin' a saloon,
an, I get to jibber jabberini with the owner. I ask him what he does
with the change people leave on the bar. He says, "Hell, the people
around here don't leave no change on the bar, or anywhere else. They,
collect the change 1" The silkstockinl neighborhoods are the cheapest
in the world.
XXVI
A butcher once told me the same kind o' story. He'd been down in
a Bohemian district before an' done so well he thought held go after
FORM C
the better class trade. Ant all the time I was letterin' up his window,
he kept gripin' an' wishinl he could get rid of his lease an' get back to
the place there geld been before he dame out there. A big new jallopy'll
pull up to the door an' a couple in evenint clothes, top hat an' every
thin', will come in. They'll price everything the guy's got'an' take up
lis time an' go out with maybe a nickel's worth o' sausage an' a dime's
worth o' cheese. An1 there wasn't no crap in what he was sayinl, either;
I seen it myself.
XXVII
Listen to this one.
I was letterin' up a tavern once, ant there's a guy there --a patron--
hangin' on the bar an' watchint me work. I'm pushinl away at the brush,
ant pretty soon he comes over an' starts to talkin' with me.
There's a lad across the street, an' this guy, he calls my attention
to him. "See that fellcw over there?" he says.
I say yeh, I seen him.
"Well," this lad says to me, "that guy aint no good, he just aint
no good 2t all."
"Is that so?" I say.
So he says, "Yeh," an' for a while he don't say nothin' more. Pretty
soon he pipes up with the story. This lad across the street, he's an
awful boozehound. But he's got a brother who takes care of him ant tries
to straighten tim up ever so often. This brother, he takes the lad out,
fits him out in new clothes an' cleans him up an' gets him a decent place
to live. An' as long as the brother's around, the lad aint to be seen.
As soon as the brother goes, though, the first thing the lad does is
hook his new outfit an' buy himself a bottle.
FORM C
When I'd heard that much, I thought it was the usual thing, the lad
was no good becaus instead of takin, advantage of his new start he buys
himself a bottle an' I say somethinl about that, "Nom," he says. "Ya
know what e does? lEbuys a bottle, an' then le goes off somewheres ant
drinks it all up by himself. I tell you le aint no good, "E just ain't
no good, that's all."