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Subject: INTERVIDt WITH ELFEGO BACA S-240 Folk -ways
Submitted By: Janet Smith
Original Copy, Not Rewritten
Wordage: 1500
Date: July 27, 1956
Approved: Ina Sizer Cassidy, State Director
313333a.
S-240 Folk -ways
Smith; 7/27/36 cl -1500
INTERVIEW WITH ELFEGO BACA
When I went to see Elfego Baca the other day, he told me he had
announced himself as candidate for district judge.
"In the old days, that was a pretty tough job," he said. "Ninety
per cent of the cases tried were either for murder or assault with the
intent to kill or cattle stealing. There was a statute prohibiting any
man from carrying a deadly weapon, but it didn't mean much. Any judge
knew that the brother or the cousin of a sentenced man might take a shot
at him when the court was over. Judge Leland, he took me along for a
body guard when he first came out here from Toledo, Ohio."
It was July 1, 1898 when Charles A. Leland was appointed judge of
the district which included Socorro, Eddie, Chavez and Lincoln counties.
About a week after his arrival at Socorro, it became Judge Leland's un-
pleasant duty to go to Roswell to hold a term of the district court.
Judge Leland had heard stories of such men as Joe Fowler, who was
reputed to have shot 13 men, and everyone of them in the back, and Henry
Coleman who at one time had done a fine business in Socorro county by
annexing his neighbor's cattle and shooting any who protested. Though
Fowler was hung by an outraged mob, no jury ever found Coleman guilty
of an unlawful act, and another ambitious young lawyer from Gallup,Arthur
T. Hannett by name, had been unable to find an officer of the law who
would serve a writ on Coleman.
"I fixed him though", said Elfego, "when I was Sheriff of Socorro
County. I wrote a form letter to all the men who were wanted for arrest.
I told them to come into my office and give themselves up, or I would come
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after them. They knew what that meant. You bet they didn't want me
to come after them." Though Mr. Baca is an old man now, his long slanty
eyes still narrow into an "or else" expression when he is speaking of
such matters--- "Even Coleman, he came in and surrendered, but the jury
wouldn't convict him. He was a pretty tough man and I guess they were
afraid. He got his, though, in a saloon."
Judge Leland who had heard of the effect of even the name of Elfego
Baca in dealing with such man, asked Mr. Baca, then a prominent attorney
in Socorro, to accompany him to Roswell. He was allowed seven dollars a
day for an interpreter. He offered Mr. Baca ten dollars a day from the
day he left Socorro till the day he returned to go with him in this cap-
acity. Mr. Baca was not particularly interested in such a trip but he
thought it politic to agree to the judge's proposal.
When they reached Roswell Judge Leland engaged one large room with
two beds in the hotel. He took Elfego to breakfast, dinner, and supper
with him. During the first week he would hardly go to the corner store
for a cigar or a newspaper without his interpreter. He intended that the
sixshooters should identify Elfego Baca as his body guard.
The first time that Elfego was able to get away by himself to a bar,
two prosperous looking Anglos, whom he had seen frequently at court, ask-
ed him to drink with them.
"Tell him about it," one of them said after the third whiskey, "May-
be he can help us."
One of their sheep -herders, an Old Mexico Mexican, had been mixed up
in a shooting scraperith another Mexican. The Justice of the Peace placed
him under a bond of $2,0001 which the II) Texan sheep men had stood good
for. The Mexican was to appear at this term of court but they had not
seen him for over three weeks.
-3
"Two thousand bucks shot to Hell," one of them said to Baca.
"The next time I go bail for another dirty bastard!"
Elfego thoughrawhile and asked the gentlemen if it would be worth
$500 to them to have him settle the case for them.
The gentlemen from Texas said it would. When Elfego stipulated
that the payment must be in advance and in cash they told him to come
around to their hotel room that evening.
The next day Elfego set about earning his $500. He told Judge Le-
land the story. He took advantage of the law that money for fines as
a penalty for carrying deadly weapons or for assault with deady weapons
should go to the school district where the violation of the law was com-
mitted, and told the Judge the school was about to close its doors for
lack of funds. He asked him to impose a fine of $50 on the guilty Mexi-
can. He neglected to add that the Mexican in question was missing.
The Judge replied that the matter must be taken up with the District
Attorney. The District Attorney was new in office and easy to talk to.
It was agreed that the defendant was to appear before court at 3 o'clock
the next afternoon, when the Judge would impose the minimum fine of $50.
Mr. Baca was to act as interpreter.
The next morning Elfego scoured the town. Mexicans from Old Mexico
were rare in those days. Elfego searched the streets and inquired in the
saloons. Finally he found one chopping wood.
Elfego asked the Mexican if he would like a job.
"Me have one job," said the Mexican pointing to the pile of wood.
Elfego explained that this would be a good job, an easy job, over in
a few minutes, and it would pay $25.
The Mexican looked incredulous, but he smiled and promised to meet
Mr. Baca in front of the Court House at a quarter of three.
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Mr. Baca gave him simple instructions: "The judge will ask 4 me
to read this paper which we call an indictment. After I read it he
will ask you 'guilty or not guilty'. You are to say 'guilty'. That's
absolutely all you have to do to get that $25. Just say 'guilty' and
not another word."
The Mexican understood. He smiled and bowed his head. At a quart-
er to three they met in front of the court house and Elfego slipped him
the $50 to be paid to the clerk after the sentence.
The Mexican carried out his instructions perfectly and with evident
enjoyment.
"Guilty," he smilingly replied to the Judge's question.
"Gracies," he answered when the Judge pronounced the $50 fine.
The Judge was annoyed at this debonair reception of his sentence.
"I am going to make you Mexicans obey the law in this country," he said
sternly, "and the next time I find you in my court I am going to send you
to the Penitentiary. Do you understand?"
Mr. Baca translated: "The Judge says that any time you Mexicans are
not treated properly by the people in Roswell, you have only to let him
know."
The Mexican smiled. "Gracias," he said again.
"Tell that Mexican," roared the Judge, "Tell him that he has nothing
to thank me for. Tell him that I don't like his looks. He looks to me
like an outlaw and an imposter. I should presume from his appearance that
he has escaped from some other country where he has no doubt committed
some crime. Tell him that he would do well to stay out of my court here-
after."
Mr. Baca interpreted: "The Judge says that he is very much impressed
with your appearance. He also likes your court room manner. He sends his
complements to your mother."
-5-
"Gracias," replied the irrepressible Mexican.
Impatiently the Judge dismissed court. The Mexican paid his fine
to the clerk. Elfego Baca walked erectly down the aisle, the Mexican
following close behind, his mind on the $25 he was to be paid.
Directly in front of the Court House stood the two Anglos from
Texas, talking in low tones. They called to Elfego and made him walk
with them out of hearing of the passers-by.
"This is not the Mexican for Whom we signed the $2,000 bond," one
of them whispered in his ear. "You made a mistake, it was---"
"What the Hell?" said Elfego. "What the Hell do you care? The
case is settled, isn't it?" He turned to the smiling Mexican and paid
him his $25.