Document text
i'uLKLORS
1Ulia V. Xrvin, P. we
McLennan County, Texas
District No, 6.
No. of words 3.6000
File No, 260
Page No. 1
Beferopee
Interview with Dee Cook, 629 South Fifth Street "ace, Texas. Deputy
under Ex-9overnor Sul Ross.
*1 was bora in May„ 1846, near Beldsville, in Craves County, Ken-
tucky, about five miles from the Tennessee line. Later my father had a
place on the line. The house wee in Tennessee and the barn in Kentucky.
There wore number of places like that, One man built a house across
the line, nnd had a store in one and while he lived in the other. When
the Kentucky tax assessor would come around, the nan would be in the
Tennessee end of his house, end when the tax assessor for, the Tennessee
county, would oar 10 around, he wadi be in the Kentucky end. At last, the
two tax assessors got together and arranged to go to the house et the same
time, coming to it each from his county end, and that way they cmuk-ht the
fellow.
*I served in the Confederate army. I came to Texas, the first tine,
in Ism, with lir aunt, We started travelling by wagon, in October, and
got to Texas in Nevember. I went to CoolOs Ferry on the Trinity River,
neer Palestine, Texas, but there was not mud' there in the way of a town,
just a few log houses. A cousin of ml -As ran the ferry. At tines, you
oould step across the Trinity there, but my cousin told me he ha O seen a
wo7sn's hot knocked off by the limb of a tree es the f rry-boat wont under
It, The limb of the tree wee forty or fifty feet froa the ,round, and
the river would rise that high, Once I env it on a rise like that, while
I was there, and I stood up in the boat awl took hold of the limb. You
wouldn't think to look at the river, when it was down that it would ever
get that high.
0/ eat down with stills and fever, and told them was not i-inr any
good tere, so I went back to Kentucky with my aunt, I seme to Texas
again in 1870. I had not got over the chills and fever, and was in bed
YOLLOR
Mrs. 4a Davis, Pe W.
McLennan County, Texos.
Distriet NO. C.
File No. 240
Page No. 2
health. I came on the railroad to New Orleans, and from there went on a
steamboat, called theism, up Red River to Shreveport. Then, I eqme
from Shreveport over the Texan and Pacific railroad to Hallsville, which
was as far as the railroad went at that time. took the stage from there
to Dallas, end intended to go to Hillsboro, but I got so sick the stage
driver —he was a clever fellow -put me in s hotel at a little town about
sixteen miles this side of Dallas. A eousin of mine was with me. I was
nearly dead, it seA.Ded to me. The nen who ran the hotel, which was a big
double log house with an open passage between the roams, came to me and
asked ne if I hadn't been In New Orleans. I said' °lee.' He said, "Now,
young man, I want you to tell me the truth *bout yourself. Ny other place
that I left when I came over here is a good house, and I *an put you over
there till you are eble to CO on. There is yellow fever at New Orleans.
Do you think you've got Lit" I eve, "There ive yellow fever there, but I
didn't see any of it. All that's the matter with no is that I've got a
chronic onset of chills and fever.* He took enre of me five days, until I
Iva able to leave, and didn't charge me a cent, and was as good to me as he
could be. That's the kind of people there were in t ose days. They wouldn't
se anybody suffer or go hungry if they 417;uld help it. I went on to
Hillsboro and then over here by stage.
"I freighted to Hremond. I had six yoke of oxen. There were two roads
between here and Bremond, and as lone as you were in the richt road you
were all right, but if you got in the wow one and .--et'somebody you had
to get out of the road nnd let him by. It was a pretty good job to cat an
Ommiwagon out of the road .47; the ruts were deep. One trip, earning batik from
Bremond„ I met a fellow with a mule•team nnd wagon. We stopped riht up
against each other. He told me to get ,,ut of the road, but I was in the
right track: I told him, ho, I wouldn't get aut, that he was in the wrong
William Y. Ervin, P. W.
Maennan County, Texas.
District No. S.
traek and he w's the man to get out. He said, "No, I won't get out.
File No. SO
Page No.
stay here till you do." I told him, "All right. I can stay here as long
as you can. I can unhook my oxen and turn them out to graze. It'll
probably oost you more to keep your males here than it will me for my oxen."
We were both goodsonatured about it. He Was trying to bluff as, as he know\
I was right. ae stayed there for a while* and then he pealed out of the
we end let me by.
"A man by the name of Garrison wanted me, and the man who was freight.
ins with me, to freight to Fort Griffin, which was then in Indian country.
Garrison was hauling Government supplies out there. It was about two
hundred miles out there. The Indians didn't bother us, and we didn't see
any, but we got a sore once. We thought we heard them in some post -oaks,
and Garrison* who was abeal of us came back and said, "Boys, It's Indians.
We'd better stop and get reAy to fight them off." But it wasn't Indians*
It was some hog -hunters,
was working for a non named Love, when an old negro who had about
two thousand sores near Loyals place end was well,te.mdo, had three omen
stolen from his., He told ms that if I mould follow the thieves and try to
get the cattle back he would pay me two dollars a day and all my expenses
and furnish me a horse' Well, I was a young fellow working by the day,
and his offer appealed to me, so I took it. I cot track of the thieves aka
followed them to Belton, where I overtook them. They had three oxen of
their awn, and had one of the megmAW axes yoked with each of theirs. Ons
of them wns a fellow named Ell WeGuire and the other three were named
lattersan. I told the sheriff about thou They had stopped there at
Belton, and NOGuire was on his horse talking to his mother. The sheriff
didn't have his -Ain on, and he asked me to let him have mine. I let him
have it, and we went over to where McGuire was. The Sheriff said, "roe=
William V. Lxvin, P. W
MOLennan County, Texas.
District No. 8,
File No. 840
Pa80 No. 4
under arrest for sterling cattle.* MCOuire *asked, *Who do you mean?*
The sheriff replied, note. The fellow Whirled his horse and went out of
town as fast as he wad. The sheriff said to me, non take this gun and
80 get him's^ I said, orll be damned if I will. Teu are the sheriff of
t is county, and it's your place to go after him." Later the sheriff
asked the distriet judge 'slat be should have done when ire ran away
from him. The judge said, 'I's not saying what you ought to have done,
but if it had been me roil have shot UM.*
*I started as deputy sheriff under SUL Bess in 18,4, and Served tan
years straight under four sheriffs* the three others were Pete Ross, Bill
Barris and Dan Fords I served four years as constable, and was on the Wa00
Police force sixteen years, altogether, about thirty years. But it was
not thirty years straight, beanie I went to farming a couple of times.
!Sul and Pete Ross were brothers, but they were entirely different.
Sul ens impetous and wanted c thing ions right now, If he wanted a
brought in, he would say to get him dend or alive. Pete Rosa was the other
way. Be had to be sure of what he was doing before be would go ahead, and
when he sent a deputy out to get a man he would mey not to shoot unless it
ens necessary. Sul and Pete Ross Imre both fine MEW Sul helped write
the state constitutions Be ens a smart man, and was alesys the same when-
ever you en, his. BA never put on airs. Be knew everybody, and after he
wns governor, when he was in less, if he saw somelermer„ he know, driving
up the street, be would holler, *Belle, Zahn,* and go out to the fnrmerts
wagon and ask him all about how him and his family were getting along.
Sul Ross liked to smoke cornsheek cigarettes, and if the frmer had a load
of corn, Sul would be opening the ear up, while he talked to the former,
to get the kind of shuOks he wanted to use in smoking.
"There was lots of cattle and 1,.orses stealinc i7oing an in V,ase times
rallies V. Erving P. U.,
McLennan County, leiv-s.
District No. 0.
File NO. SW
Page No. 5
It was hard to convict the tLievea fter they were might, n they had a
good *may friends and kinfolks who would get ia7 the jury. Before got
to be a deuty sheriff thero wea a bunch of thieves caught, who were in with
same bic, cattlemen A5ross the river. The cettlemen sent word to the district
*Varney, w%o was nened Perrea„ that if !At lrosewated tla)se men they would
kill bim. When court started there were three hundred armed men, and 1 was
one of them, there to protect the distriet attorney and see that court went.
on.. Perms proseauted the thieves, and their bunch didn't do anything to
stop him. BO sent them to the pen.
"The horse and cattle thieves ha l their hen(' -uts on Tehmeana and
Trading House weeks. They were zlot bed about shooting. They had rather
get away when we cot after them. They were hard to ssteh in the breaks
and woods. Sometl-ms we would lea! a -osee afte:' them and shoot at them
SOM..
"When Dan Ford and -I were deputies together, we discovered a orse=
stealinc gang that had headquarters on Trading House Creek, and hideouts
at different ilecies away out into Nest Texas. Out there, they had three
pastures, a large one that covered a good deal of country and, inside that
one, a smallelyvature and 1741de that xle, a third one, the smallest one,
in which they would put the stolen 71rses. They had the three fences to
fool anybody looking for stock, bemuse when 1:e one ta the see,A pasture,
and AAn't fiA any horses, be would ;lye up the ahem) and turn back. WO
caught some
j.
the gang when they stole somc cassos from a ynn naid
young woman who wore attenling a Boheiian lance nt Dremond. The younc we
woman was a relative of a mnn naned Davis, who vas a member of the state
legislature. ;4) found the horses nt Jne or their hideouts up north of
Weep. 6411 oaurht a can named Benno* and a young fellow by the arne of
Henry Vaughn. Ford and I worked on. Henry to cat A.77. to tell all he knew
about the c.:11g. Ford 'wild be hard on Henry and abuse him; didn't hit,
YOLIt.i.01U.;
William W. Lrvin, P. w*
McLennan County, Texas*
District No* 84.
File No. 240
Page NO* 6
him, but would talk to him and I would sympathise with A.M4 We had him
about to the plant to turn State's evidence and tell ell he knew, when the
district attorney heard of it, and he went over to the jail and told Henry
be had heard he was going to turn State's evident** BA said, no, he wasn't
going t) do anything of the kind, and so the district attorney spoiled all
the work Ford and had done* The district at1orney said that Ruin° had
promised to tell all he knew on the witness stand, but when he rot on the
stand he told -,ostly a lot of lies, and could have been convicted for
perjury* lie ha- told Ford and I about the three pastures and the hideouts
over the country. He said Jos Thomas was at the hood of it, Joe had his
place on Tehuacana Crook*
"Pete Ross told se be would have to send ne to Joe Thomas' place to
get Thomas' notLar..inAew„ and take her to Merlin as a witness, and though*
I was in for it, for she wns a hellcat. I got a limy and went out West
her. The house was way out in the woods and it was n lonesome looking
1
place* The old woman flatly refused to come with me* I didn't want to use
force with a women to bring her along, so I sent in ond lid about the best
piece of talking I ever did in my life, and got her to agree to go* she
said, "If I go with you to Marlin, will you stay with no while I'm over
there and bring me bask,* I said, nes, I will be right with you ell the
time you are gone and bring you book here*" She said, "All right* go
with you*" She said for me to wait, she wanted to change her dress* While
she was doinc that Joe Thomas and two of the toughest -looking char.:later.
I ever sew cane up, heavily armed, Thomas was not armed* I thought, "Mow
have to fight these fellows*. well, I'll do the hest I ean* can get
some of them before they get me*" I didn't know who the strnncers were,
but they lidn't have a worl to say, Thomas put in to get the old ro7an not
to co with me as he wec afraid of what she lirht tell in court about him
and his gang* She told him she woe going es she he told me she would, and
William V. rvin, P. w.
MeLennan County, Texas.
District No. 8.
Ills No. 140
Pegs NO.
he wonted to know how she would get back. She told him I had promised to
bring her back. Be kept trying to get her not to go, but she got rc-Ay and
we started. As we drove off, with my back to that bunch, I felt my hair
stand up and cold chills run up and down my bask as I didn't know but they
might shoot me in the bask, but they let us go all right. I took her to
wee°, and arm the sheriff, and he said he rould send her to Marlin. I told
him, no, that I had promised to go with her to Marlin and stay with her
whild she was there and then take her back home. He told me to go ahead.
When they let her co at Marlin, I brought her back here, and Zoe Thomas came
and told no he would take her home. I went and told her Thomas said he
would take her home, but that I would if she wanted me to. she said no,
she would go with Thomas. I kept my word with her all the way through. If
I hadn't some of that gang might have shot me.
*One morning, when I got to the office, Pete Ross ha a yellow paper in
his 11=4, which had been torn from a book, the cotton nen used. Be handed
the paper to me. sort of laughed, and said for me to read it. It was from
the deputy A Moody, way down in the southwest corner of the county, and he
said, Mang Dudley Bansford last night. Aus Simms killed Melton. aOt Ala
Siam' hat. If they had got him, they would have hung him. Mk harm done so
far Parker Nailer.'
'What Parker meant, ens that a mob had hung HansfOrd„ who was a cattle
and ',arse thief. Aus Simms was a friend of Hansford, and hal killed Melton
w tatLeaused Hansford to get ought. What he meant, too, by ono harm
done" was that those who cot killed, deserved killing.
"There was some fellow, I din't ramemior his name, -;ot run out of
Lampasas County for stealing cattle, and we were aent wor to be on the
lookout for him. Pete Ross told so to look for the fellow, who was a small
man. I didn't have my gun, so Pete OMVO no his. It WIS quick on trigger,
but I didn't know it. I knew that when cowboys and freighters and sudk
GL.LflZ
William V. Srvin, P. w.
McLennan County, Texas. File NO, 940
DistriOt NO. 16 Page No. 8
fellows got into town they usually went to the onloons, pool halls and
tenpin alleys. There was c tenpin elley tInd pool hall then on Austin
Street where Chris' Restaurant is now. I went in there, and this fellow
was there, toward the baek of the building. It was after night, before I
could get to his be jumped through a window into the alley and ran to Fifth
Street, I jumped out at the window and fell and was nearly knocked out, I
got up and ran to Fifth and saw him run into Austin. I followed him and
he ran up Austin to the Sodwick Lumber Company's yard, wIlleh extended from
Nth to 7th Streets. There was a big double gate to the yard Which was
fastened with a chain and could swing inward some. The fellow ran against
this trying to get through, and it opened and threw his down. Ls he ran
at the lumber yard gate, I shot at his, to try to shoot him in two, but I
was not familiar with the gun and it went off before I hel it aimed good,
and I missed his. l.a on his before he could get up and caw:ht MAL He
says, 'You tried to shoot me." I said, No, I wasn't trying to hit you. I
was trying to scare you.** He says, 'Seemed to me like you was trying to bit
me the way that bullet sounded," I raid, "No, I cauldn't try to hit you,"
Be said, "I had two dollIrs when I started, I hill,glet got a cr)nt of it
now. I guess I lost it when I hit that gets,* I took him in. It was lets
and Rees had gone home. The next morning he stays, "I heard you shot at 8
man last nicja.t." I said, "Yost but I missed his.' Ie said, "Be careful
when you are doing any shooting." If it had been „suit he would have 84'140
";ay didn't you kill hit?"
"We caught a Dutehman with some stolen :.oreest bUt he hadn't stolen
them, He got them from another Dutchmen who had stolen them. Hs was caught
at NOlinney, and I went up Core to get his. He was big, ;lowerful man, and
I was afraid to try to travel with him at night, so I notified the chief of
pollee at Corsicana to meet us and help me get him in jail. The chief met
me and we put the Dutchmen in jail, ,Ind the next day I brought him to Waco.
fOL,k-ORE
willies V. izvin, P. w.
NoLennan County, Texas.
Distriet No. a.
File NO. 240
Page No. 9
I don't know what 'vs done with his.
"When I first Sem to Waco and before I was on the sheriff force, I saw
Lawless and Fisher, two :Allays who were ar:und hare then. They were fine—
looking young man, wellsdressed. You wouldn't think they were thieves and
bad men to look at them.
"About 1894, Judge Gerald shot and killed two rothers named Harris, the
were publishers of a Newspaper here. The row started over somethth4Varann
published in his Imeasato The Harrises took it up in their paper and
printed soma pretty hard things about Bruno. Judge Gerald wrote an firtiele
in defense of Brann„ and tAted the Harrises to publish it, which they said
they would. The Harris brothers and Judge Gerald were good friends. Judge
Gerald lived ri:ht across the stret from J. W. Harrio, Judge Gerald was
as fine a man fla I ever knew. I loved his. The Harriet's were tie men, too,
and well.thoucht of. Judge Gerald was a little 7nn, and one arm yes crippled,
it was soi: when he waa in the Civil War. *The Harrises didn't print the
judges article, and Lhe judge went to their ofiee in the Provident Building
and asked Bob Harris why they didn't publish it. One word led to another
until Harris lost him temper and 1:Lnoeked the judge down and kicked him out of
the building. The judge said he would kill Harris, unless Barrie apologised.
A mutual friend, though, got Harz's to agree to apologise, and then went to
judge Gerald and asked him if he would accept the apology, which wait; to be
published in the Barris.** paper, and the judge said he would. Z. W. Lrris
Mint to judge Gerald and told hi* that he would take no pert in the quarrel
between his brother and the judge, that he had !Aware been the judge's friend
and hoped they would aontin.e.to be friends, Judge Gerald acreed with his,
but LAer he told a friend that J. W, was lying, that he knew no Harrises
were planning to kill his. They aid not publish the apology as they were
persuaded by their friends not to.
MULALO:'4
William V. ,-rvin, P. 4.
MeLennen County* Texas*
District No. 8*
File No. 240
Page No. 10
nudge GerIlld cot word that the Barrises *ere waiting for him at the
Corner Drug store. Be cot in his buy and drove down there* Bob Harris was
at the drug store and 3. W. was across the stript* then the judge drove up
and got out of his buggy the Harris's started shooting at him* nt threw up
his bad arm to sort of protect Lis head* Be said later that it wasn't much
aeeount and they couldn't do it much damage. He shot and killed Bob Barris*
and then he turned end shot 3* W. who fell. aut in the street* Judge Gerald
went over to Lin and shot him twice more and killed him, if he wasn't already
dead. The judge was bnlly hurt and it was Alour,ht he wouldn't live* but he
got over it all right: Some of us said 11v:A if the Harriet's had known him
like we did they would hove knDwn better than to fool viith him*
*During my thirty yenrs, I had so :Isny'nerL'ow esoapes from getting k11140d
that it gives me the shudders when I think of it. When I get to thi king
about it, I lon*t see how I got throuch it all. I resigned from the pollee
force becnuse my eyes' tit and tevring were etting bad, and I didn't think I
was competent to hold the job: Outside ttose things my health is pretty good,
and I feel about as good a I ever did.* (July 19370