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http:// --> Ashland, Oregon HOME Valley & State Sports Nation & World Opinion/Editorial Classifieds Business Columnists Obituaries Weather Archive Hot Topics Forum Photo Gallery Past Readers Polls Revels Etcetera Backpage O-Zone Special Sections Real Estate Guide Menu Guide Shakespeare Subscribe Contact Us Rate Card Place an Ad Online Games Movie Preview October 4, 2006 City may block logging on Mt. Ashland By Vickie Aldous Ashland Daily Tidings The Ashland City Council is sending its strongest message yet to the Mt. Ashland Association: Hand over a detailed business plan or there will be no expansion logging. Even councilors who think expansion opponents have overstated the risk to the environment and the city watershed joined the effort. Ultimately, as holder of a permit for the ski area, the City of Ashland is financially responsible if the resort fails and doesn't have enough assets to pay for the mountain's restoration. "My biggest concern is financial liability and we haven't made enough progress on that," Councilor Kate Jackson said Tuesday night. The council voted unanimously to send a letter to the U.S. Forest Service revoking authority the city had given for the Forest Service to deal directly with the Mt. Ashland Association on ski area issues. That means the Forest Service will have to work with the city on a timber contract for felling trees in the expansion area, said City Attorney Mike Franell. The city could stop the timber sale until it gets the financial information officials want from the Mt. Ashland Association, he said. "We need to move on this prior to the timber being cut," Mayor John Morrison said. Councilors also voted to send a letter to the Mt. Ashland Association asking again for a business plan and other financial information on the $3.7 million expansion. The council passed a resolution in 2005 seeking a business plan. The council did extend one olive branch to the association. In September, councilors voted to appoint two members of the environmental community to an expansion advisory group and made reference to the Sierra Club. The Mt. Ashland Association then asked the city not to include representatives from groups that sued to block the expansion. The Rogue Group Sierra Club is among the groups that tried unsuccessfully in U.S. District Court to stop the expansion. Group representatives said they plan to appeal to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. On Tuesday night, the council voted unanimously to take out any reference to the Sierra Club as a group that should have representatives on the expansion advisory group. Instead, the city will ask local environmental groups to submit names of advisory group nominees, who will be selected by the council. Staff writer Vickie Aldous can be reached at 479-8199 or [email protected]. Current Comments: Does the council have anyone that can actually read and comprehend a business plan? The track record on fiscal matters is pretty dismal with that bunch. Maybe they can hire a consultant to read it for them! Les Govt - Talent, OR - October 4th, 1:39 PM It was such a mistake to give any authority regarding Mt. Ashland to the City. They didn't pay for it; the whole region did the fundraising and it's not close to city limits. Would love to see this relationship severed ASAP. It's like Planned Parenthood having to operate to the Vatican's approval. Get a new non-profit to be "liable" to get the "City" off the percieved liability hook; and gets the City off the back of Mt.A & Get TAP spring water if you really believe Reeder will be impacted. wanna b a trustfunder2 - Ashland - October 4th, 2:32 PM Does anyone know what the long term plans for city drinking water are? It sounds like Reeder Reservoir will be less important in the coming years with the tie in to the TAP water line. Not that I think that means we should log the whole watershed, but doesn't that somehow play into the "contaminated drinking water" argument? Seems like if we aren't getting our water from Reeder for much longer, there should be less concern...? Any thoughts? robin - ashland, or - October 4th, 3:26 PM The council needs to stay as far away from the opperation of Mt Ashland as they can. They could micro-manage a monopoly into the ground. Let them get their micro-managing hands on Mt Ashland and we'll have two money pits in our 'state-run' business portfolio. thought i was a liberal - Ashland - October 4th, 3:59 PM Dear Mt. Ashland Assoc. Hurry, start cutting trees NOW! Nobody can stop you once it's done. Call Cowman or Superior Logging and GO!!! The courts have given the OK, so CUT, CUT, CUT. We�ve waited 20 years for this. The city is out of bounds on this one, the only one on the council that knows how not to fail in business is Alex and he's bailing on us. Look at the hospital, complete turn around after it pulled out from under the city, good service and making money. Sincerely Yours Lori Munson Lori Munson - Ashland Oregon - October 4th, 4:08 PM Just wait until we get the newly elected council. They couldn't run a hot dog stand. Ed ( [email protected] ) - Ashland, Oregon - October 4th, 4:39 PM Someone please analyze the water in the drinking fountains at City Hall and Council chambers. Some small-town commissars are obviously ill, perhaps intoxicated with their own unaccountability, & secure in their annointedness. They may need a specific remedy for "megalomania spenditis" a form of parasite that infects only the left side of the political body. I recommend a high colonic with AFN-created red ink . . . They'll like the color, anyway. Rich Kline - Ashland, OR - October 4th, 5:45 PM OY! Regardless of what thinks about the expansion, putting the city council in charge is a BAD idea that will become disastrous if the "progressives" get in. As it already is, Cate Hartzell will talk so long about every blade of grass that anyone living now will be too old to ski before anything is decided! Yeah! - Ashland - October 4th, 5:58 PM A fiscally conservative vote from Council. Posts above overlook that taxpayers are liable for mountain restoration costs if/when the ski area fails. Councilors protected citizens from footing all the risk in MAA's reckless venture. I'd oppose privatizing the ski operation because it's located at the headwaters of a public resource: our drinking water. Even with the inevitable TAP intertie, polluting the watershed is unwise and unethical. Jay Lininger - Ashland - October 4th, 7:15 PM If the Ashland City Council doesn't want liability, they should transfer the permit to the Mt. Ashland Association. Problem solved! Colin Beck - Portland/Ashland - October 4th, 7:51 PM This, friends, is what happens when citizens demand accountability from their representatives. Boo-hoo. The City is actually considering the interests of the people, not just the corporate fast talkers and their mindless drones. Some of you would do well to educate yourselves about this issue before spouting off advice to illegally cut trees on city property. It is apalling, the notion that anyone with the obvious intelligence of Lori Munson would promote such blatant unlawful activities. Raferty - Ashland - October 4th, 8:09 PM Thanks to the Council. They are merely upholding the Mount Ashland Resolution passed in 2005 and the terms of the lease for the special use permit. Christine - Ashland, OR - October 4th, 8:28 PM I appreciAte how much courage it takes to do what you believe is fair, and I know the council would of not had this unanimous vote if MAA had kept their agreements. I am very grateful to every council member. I have seen the city give MAA every opportunity to be successful. I was at the City Council meeting a year ago when the MAA was asked to provide the business plan and financial statements, and AGREED TO COMPLY. MAA did not keep that agreement. Preserving ecology is permanent economy. Linda Richards - Ashland Oregon - October 4th, 8:38 PM Lori Munson you are one fiesty lady! And oh so sharp with your wit and intelligence! Here's my personal Plan B: If the election results aren't what I consider favorable, Lori Munson and I should shack up in some nice double wide trailer just outside the City of Ashland and pray for aliens to land from outer space to finish up the in-progress efforts to ruin Ashland. If ya really don't want growth or progress then take us back 100 years and give the area back to the Indians! White people ruin all Manuel - Ashland - October 4th, 9:29 PM I honestly was undecided about how I felt concerning the MAX. But after reading the inane, childish and illogical arguments put forward by the above MAX supporters, I have to say, "Thank you Mr. Navickas and Ashland City Council." middleman - Ashland, OR - October 5th, 5:53 AM Just a few comments/questions to address some of the statements above. First, Jay are the taxpayers financially liable for restoration if the ski area fails, or doesn't MAA have to provide the funding as part of business plan? About the bus. plan, Linda why would MAA share the bus.plan with city council when two or more of the members are sharing information and obviously siding with litigants in a lawsuit against MAA? In that context, isn't the city council not living up to it it's agreement? John - Ashland - October 5th, 9:11 AM I love to ski too, but skiing in the northwest is ultimately doomed. We've chosen SUV's, McMansions, plastic toys from China, and winter strawberries from South America instead. Every week now brings further news about climate change, and it doesn't look good. Clearcutting trees for recreation is a not a wise idea, financially, environmentally, or morally. The choice is to cut down trees and increase cars on the mountain, or try to preserve the ecosystems that reduce CO2 in first place. Jay Almarode - Ashland - October 5th, 9:24 AM I get so tired hearing from the pampered environmentalists here in Ashland. They live in their million dollar homes, drive their Prius and claim to be taking the high ground. They eat the same trucked in food as the rest of us, consume the same Chinese made goods as the rest of us, and generate as much CO2 as the next guy. The only solutions they seem to be able to come up with are hemp shirts and sand candles. i thought i was a liveral - Ashland - October 5th, 9:52 AM So, Mr. 'thought i was a liveral' ...if you can afford the new lift-ticket prices at Mt. A. you must be some kind of pampered.....what? Real estate agent? investment counselor? equity refugee from so.cal? Thank you City Council for helping us prevent another AFN style disaster-(lots overly optimistic guessing about future revenue..) Clearcutting 70 acres for intermediate skiers to show off their tight bogners makes no sense. Think I'll telemark and save $45 a day. Larry - ashland - October 5th, 10:44 AM To 'i thought i was a liveral', here's some solutions: grow a garden, ride your bike, purchase blue sky energy, consume less, carpool to Mt A. I have found doing these things financially sound, personally rewarding, and producing less CO2 as a result. But this is America, and you're free to destroy the planet as you see fit. Too bad our children have to pay the price. Jay Almarode - Ashland - October 5th, 11:37 AM Turn the lease over to MAA for $1., let MAA provide the bond for restoration & get the city out of the picture ASAP. Or face the facts of constant litigation by environmentalists & endless fillibustering & grandstands in the city council chambers. Private enterprise rather than govt regulation created the free enterprise system, allow profit or loss to regulate the marketplace as once was the rule in the US. Lubrication of each squeak will eliminate forward progress entirely. Get on with it. Telemon - Hornbrook, Ca. - October 5th, 3:34 PM Glad some grown-ups jumped in with a jolt of reality for these free-market, pro-pleasure-at-any-price pre-adults who, in the face of looming global warming and absence of snow would still give the go-ahead to clearcut our mountain and destroy our water supply. Anything for a few seasons of those great visceral kicks! Wheeeeeee-e-e-e-e-e-e!!! After me, the deluge! Max - Ashland - October 5th, 7:31 PM I wanna cut some trees down so I can ski more. I wanna be able to ski on easier terrain I wanna cuz other people like me agree with me I wanna make this even more of a tourist mecca I wanna be just like other mountain resort towns WAAAAAA Iwanna I wanna Iwanna WAAAAA I dont wanna listen to whiny enviromentalists Listen to yourselves Beautiful people Rain - Ashland - October 5th, 7:49 PM GET THE CITY COUNCIL OUT OF MT. A! The fact is, they have no right to it; they did nothing for it; the only thing they know about profit is that they could never make one if they tried. Concerned about liability .... give it up then! Let a non-profit that actually has a clue on how to run a business take over and then get ready for the next success story. Best For Ashland - Ashland, OR - October 5th, 9:50 PM The expansion debate is breaking down to the same predictable clash between R's and D.'s The 'damn the future'-i wanna golf course, i wanna big easy ski area, i wanna drive my Hummer crowd against the rest of us. Where is the Business Plan explaining how to raise millions of dollars for the expansion? Why did daily lift tickets jump to the mid 40 $ range last season? What will they cost this year? A real community ski area would be investing in better lodge and grooming - with $20 lifts. Larry - ashland - October 6th, 9:46 AM Perhaps all you "expand at any cost" recreationists should put your money where you mouths are. Get together and buy the lease from the city, then if the ski area fails you all can put the finances together to restore the mountain to its natural state,which, by the way, will be impossible at that point. Oh MY...do I hear a thundering herd running in the other direction on this plan? Skeptical - Ashland - October 6th, 11:12 AM Dear Skeptical, We have put our money where our mouths are and pooled our finances to create the MAA. If the lease were for sale MAA would gladly pay the city the $1 it spent to secure the lease from USFS and leave the council to its grandstanding. MAA rather than the city council manages and operates the area last time I checked and has depleted their funds fighting litigants. Manuel, Alien tele-r's rule the slopes! Good luck to you and Lori, Best 4 A-land and thought i - wanna b & Robin. Telemon the mindless drone - Hornbrook, Ca. - October 6th, 11:55 AM Skeptical, if that happened, you lefty greenbrains would scream "corporate greedheads" until your little tongues dried up (my hope!). Would Sierra Club and all the rest of you sign off in advance for an expansion plan? I think not! Why doesn't the ultra-wealthy, non-profit, perfect-in-every-way Sierra Club buy Mt A for a "keen clean green ski eco-area" or whatever? Or are they afraid to put THEIR money where THEIR mouths are? Rich Kline - Ashland, OR - October 6th, 11:56 AM Skeptical- perhaps you should do your research- Mt A lift tix are less than $40. You can check their website if you want. robin - ashland, or - October 6th, 1:12 PM Right on Skeptical! The "get on with it" as long as nothing is coming out of MY pocket except the price of a discounted lift ticket and an occasional tank of gas" mentality is probably at the front of this herd for SURE!! LM - Ashland - October 6th, 2:43 PM Yo Kline, Munson, Telemon... 3 years ago lift tickets were mid $20's. As they go beyond $40 the fall-off will be big. The skiing population is flat and falling. What does the MAA business plan really say? Do you know? How will they generate millions? When we have a snowless winter like in '78 mid 80's and 90's what will happen? Why won't any private sector folks step up to buy the ski area? MAA has no financial bonding. Ashland has deep pockets. Who would suffer the biggest loss? You? Larry - Ashland - October 6th, 9:29 PM John, you're right, the MAA can put up the restoration bond. That's why Council now rightly demands a business plan to ensure the City won't be left holding the bag when rain is more common than snow in the high Siskiyous. Short memories on this list: the City arranged for substantial "Save Mt. Ashland" funds in 1991 by channeling a state Economic Development Grant. The community has as much stake in the ski area as MAA. And it's on public land in our watershed. I'd say no way to privatization. Jay Lininger - Ashland - October 7th, 12:07 PM Larry, do your research. 3 years ago, lift tickets were in the mid-$30 range. eM - Ashland - October 8th, 3:15 PM Mt. Ashland will be able to raise more money and survive IF expansion goes through, our terrain is limited which in turn limits our appeal to riders, we are one of the smallest resorts around.the small group of protesters(i think the number is around 15 indivduals)need to find something to do that is not taking from the youth of the rogue valley. would you rather have them sking or sit in town and playing video games & getting obese like the rest of america? snow bored - ashland or. - October 9th, 11:54 AM It seems that seeing the business plan is probably a good idea. Just a little farther south in the Tahoe region, ski areas are having problems getting bank loans and other funding if they are below a certain elevation (their base) because of the concern that there will be no snow there in less than 30 years. It would suck to have an expansion built, no snow, and a loss of trees. The business plan should show that this has been considered. And if not, it should. Brian! - Ashland, OR - October 9th, 1:05 PM A $17 million expansion plan for a mountain worth a couple million at the most? What a wonderful idea. While we're at it, why don't we just put gold hubcaps on all the garbage trucks. We can shred $100 bills and use them for mulch in Lithia park. Then let's fill the duck pond with evian and feed the squirrels organic acorns. Rafferty - Ashland - October 9th, 6:44 PM I have skied Mt. Ashland for 28 seasons. Well, 26 actually, there were a few years where there was not enough snow to ski. Anyone remember them? Probably not, because you just moved here. Anyway, I don't want to see the mountain expanded and I'm glad the council is trying to stop the cutting. The expansion area is simply not high enough in elevation to support skiing. Add in a few degrees of climate change and the mountain may not be skiable at all in 20 or 30 years. The mountain is fine. Chris - Ashland - October 10th, 4:23 PM This is certainly the strongest action to date by a united City Council. Would that it had been done 6 months ago (at least). But it is still not an unequivocal enough stand. When will Council wake up to the fact that they have the power and the right to defend Ashland from predators? Dr. Aaron Corbet - Ashland, Oregon - October 18th, 1:41 PM Leave a Comment: Advertisement: Advertisement: Paid Advertising Inkjet Printers Student Loans Water Filter Helzberg Diamonds Mortgage Calculator Security Systems Advertisement: Copyright © 2006 Ashland Daily Tidings and Ottaway Newspapers. All Rights Reserved.