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U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
f
TAPE vs
3/7/93
12:31 A.M. - 1:18 A.M.
2
Tape 75! '
DAVID KORESH: -- for I, saith the Lord, will
be unto her a wall of fire round about and I'll be the
glory in the midst of her. That's how we identify.
Ho, ho, come forth and flee from the land of the north,
saith the Lord, for I have spread you abroad as the
four winds of heaven saith the Lord. Deliver thyself,
O Zion, that dwelleth with the, not ancient, but the
daughter of Babylon. For thus saith the Lord of hosts.
After the glory have they sent me into the nations
which spoiled you. Now what is this glory, do you
think?
JOHN: I don't know.
DAVID KORESH: Remember the white horse?
JOHN: Sure.
' DAVID KORESH: The truth was hearken, O
daughter, and consider, right?
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID xonnsif: And all those who believe in
that truth are going to be the bride of Christ, aren't
they? That's the glory. The marriage of the Lamb.
For he that toucheth you, those who hurt the people
that believe --
JOHN: Go over that again, David.
DAVID KORESH: Okay. For thus --
JOHN: That para -- 8.
DAVID KORESH: Okay.
with there.
JOHN: All right.
DAVID3
Verse 7. Let's start
KORESH: See, remember. God's people
are scattered amongst the nations during this time.
JOHN: Umhum.
DAVID
dwells with the
JOHN: Babylon.
DAVIDKORESH: Deliver thyself, O Zion, that
daughter of what?
KORESH: For thus saith the Lord of
hosts. After the glory hath he sent me unto the
nations which spoiled you. So the message has to go
around, doesn't it? For he that toucheth you, toucheth
the apple of his eye. It's like trying to poke God --
your finger in God's eyeball.
1. '
I Now, you'll find out
God kees. For, behold, I will
You know what's in God's hand,
I JOHN: Now, how did,
you say about the apple of his
DAVID KORESH:
JOHN: And I'm
with you.
DAVID KORESH: Okay,
JOHN: However
DAVID KORESH:reading it.here in a little bit how
shake my hand upon them.
don't you? A book.
how did you -- what did
eye?
Now, you see .
I'm following it
okay.
The pupil --
JOHN!4
how do you get the state - the,
the statement, the slang that you've heard and I've
heard that somebody is the apple of their eye, you
know. Their child is the apple of the eye.
DAVIDKORESH: Well, actually, actually in
the Hebrew the terminology refers to --
JOHN:
DAVIDUh-huh.
KORESH: refers to the pupil. It's
a little round thing in the eye.
JOHN:
DAVID
directly in the
JOHN:
DAVID
see, those that
4.Okay. _
KORESH: You see? Poking someone
eye. '
Okay.
KORESH: Okay? Now, so the hand God --
don't believe the seven seals will not
know,who this angel is that spoke with Zechariah. So
they won't know who I am either. You see? So, when,
when the judge throws the book at you, that means all
the laws are going to get you in trouble, right?
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID KORESH: For, behold, I will shake my
hand upon them and they shall be a spoil to their
servants. Like in the Book of Nahum. The belligerent
power comes in to scatter, you know, and God's people
were there at the mercy of God because they in like
in Psalms 18, they're too strong for us. What happens
5
is God intervenes and makes an example of the
belligerent power, brings that nation to an end and all
other nations realize that there is a living and true
God.
And ye shall know that the Lord of hosts has
sent me. Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion. This
is where the 144,000 begin to be sealed, because the
Lord's going to choose the Jews again. For, lo, I come
and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the Lord,
and many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that
day. See, it's not the end of the world yet. It's
just the end of a few individuals that will not believe
the truth.
End shall be my people and I will dwell in
the midst of thee-and thou shall know that the Lord of
1.
hosts has sent me unto thee. And the Lord shall
ihhérit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall
choose Jerusalem again. Be silent, 0 all flesh before
the Lord, for he is raised up out of his holy
habitation.
Now, so we know the Father's going to rise up
off his throne, don't we? Like in Psalms 18. Now, we
know this man on the red horse was Christ before he
became flesh. We know that the subject is God's still
going to rule in Jerusalem, but one of the signs is
going to be, he's going to be a wall of fire around
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about Jerusalem. We need to know about it ahead of
time.
And he showed me Joshua, the high priest,
standing before the angel of the Lord and Satan
standing at his right hand to resist him. You know how
Satan is, right?
JOHN: Uhhuh.
DAVID KORESH: And the Lord said unto Satan,
the Lord rebuke thee, O Satan, even the Lord that hath
chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee. Is not this a brand
plucked out of the fire?
Now, Joshua represents a person that's not so
holy, but he wants to be saved, don't he? Now, Joshua
was clothed with filthy garments and stood before the
angel. And he answered and spake unto those that stood
before him saying, take away the filthy garments from
him? And unto him he said, behold, I have caused
iniquity to pass from thee and I will clothe thee with
a change of raiment. ""
Doesn't Christ have power to forgive? And I
said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they
set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with
garments and the angel of the Lord stood by. And the
angel of the Lord protested unto Joshua, saying, thus
saith the Lord of hosts. If thou wilt walk in my ways
and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also
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7
judge my house and thou shalt also keep my courts and I
will give thee places to walk among these that stand
by.
Now, how will Joshua know God's ways and
God's laws? How will he know? Hear now, O Joshua the
high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before
thee, for they are men wondered at. People can't
figure these guys out. For behold I will bring forth
my servant the Branch. Now, that's another mystery.
But the only way we know that mystery is this. For
behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua - you
know who the stone is, don't you?
JOHN: Who are we talking about in, in 8? My
servant the Branch?
DAVID KORESH: Well, that's what we're
getting to. You won't know who the Branch is until you
know verse 9.
JOHN: All right.
DAVID KORESHt For behold the stone. Who is
the rock in heaven? The Father.
JOHN: The Father.
DAVID KORESH: That I have laid before
Joshua. Joshua was shown this vision. Upon one stone
shall be how many eyes?
JOHN: Seven.
u DAVID KORESH: How many eyes does the Lamb
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have?
JOHN: Seven.
DAVID KORESH: How many seals does the Father
have?
JOHN: Seven. .
DAVID KORESH: Behold, I will engrave the
graving thereof. Who writes on this rock? God's rock
is his truth, isn't it? So God says he's the writer,
just like in Psalms 45, saith the Lord of hosts and
I'll remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
Awesome! Learn the seven seals and the truth will make
you free. God will not make mention of any of your
sins you ever committed, you'll be thoroughly forgiven,
and you'll be set free.
In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, ye
shall call every man his neighbor under the vine of the
figétree. We don't like war. Just like Isaiah 2 and
Micah 4 teaches in the last days. There's no reason
for war. Okay. Now here's the next key.
JOHN: Well, I don't think any sane,
rationale person does, do they?
DAVID KORESH: No, they shouldn't.
JOHN: No.
DAVID KORESH: And the angel that talked with
me came again, and waked me as a man wakened out of his
sleep. So what happened to Zechariah when he heard
I
this? I mean, you know,9
Zechariah was back when they
were keeping the law and all that. All those rules and
regulations, you know, to be righteous. But here he
sees a plan that deals with God, seven eyes, you know,
the rock. And
Branch, right?
this Branch ifall we have to know is about this
And we on we can only know about
we know about the stone, right? You
know what a branch is, don't you? You're a father?
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID KORESH:
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID KORESH:
don't you?
JOHN: Several
DAVID KORESH:
f JOHN: Uhhuh.
DAVID ~ KORESH:
It's like Jeremiah says,
branch of righteousness to grow up into David and
is the name wherewith he shall be called the Lord
righteousness. And then it talks about his wife.
that day I will cause the branch of righteousness
grow up into David and this is the name where sheYou have a wife?
Well, you have an offspring,
The branch. Your children.
Is the son, is the Branch.
in that day will I cause the
this
our
In
to
shall
be called the Lord our righteousness. You know, the
marriage of the Lamb. Beautiful. It's a great party.
I want you to come, but you got to learn about it
10
first.
Now, so Zechariah, he passes out, like this
is a far better plan than the law of Moses. He said to
me, what seest thou. And I said, I have looked and
behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the
top of it, and his seven lamps thereon. In other
words, I've seen the light! I've seen the light! You
know what this lamp represents, don't you? Psalms 18,
the Lord will light my candle. The seven candles. The
seven spirits of God. The seven eyes of the Lamb. The
seven spirits of God. One and the same thing. The way
Christ sees is the way God sees. That's the light of
the world.
Now, and his seven lamps thereon and seven
pipes to the seven lamps upon the top thereof and --
here's the real neat thing. And two olive trees by it.
Onesupon the right side of the bowl and the other upon
the left side thereof. So I answered and spake to the
angel that talked with me saying, what are these, my
lord? Then the angel that talked with me answered and
said unto me, knowest thou not what these be? And I
said, no, my lord. But he answered and spake unto me
saying, this is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel.
See, yedabubel phonetic sp.! means those who
come from Babylon, saying not by might nor by power,
but by my spirit said the Lord of hosts. So whatever
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the seven seals contain, no matter what the hand of God
contains, God is going to finish it. Now this great
mountain is called Babylon - great mountain Babylon
Jeremiah talks about in all the prophets? Who are
thou, O great mountain before Zerubbabel? Those who
believe in God's word --
JOHN: The mountain is Babylon you say?
DAVID KORESH: Oh, yeah. The fiery
mountain --
JOHN: I thought they said - earlier it was
an area, an area of Babylon and there was a city within
the area.
DAVID KORESH: No, no, no. See, see, for
lack of knbwledge of the prophetic language --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
, DAVID KORESH: Ba - a mountain is a
difficulty. A mountain is something that's hard to get
over and God calls this Babylon the great mountain. It
shall become a burnt mountain. God says he's going to
bring it down to the ground. Now, who whatever this
mountain is, before Zerubbabel is will become a what?
Plain. For he shall bring forth the headstone. Who's
really in charge of the empires of men? Who really has
the final say?
JOHN: The Lord.
DAVID KORESH: God. Therefore with shoutings
crying grace, grace
to fall mercifully,
judgments, but with
our eyes to see the12
unto it. You see, we want Babylon
not with war. Not with God's
truth. The truth will enlighten
importance of these seven seals.
Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, the
hands of Zerubbabel laid the foundation of this house,
his hands shall also finish it, and thou shalt know
that the Lord of hosts has sent me to you. For who
hath despised the day of small things.
You know, like today we don't care about this
world. For they shall rejoice and see the plummet in
the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven. They are the
eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the
whole earth. So you got to see the way the Lamb sees,
don't you? Seven seals, right? Then answered I and
said unto him, what are these two olive trees upon the
rigt side of the candlestick and upon the left side
thereof?
And so again it says, what be these two olive
branches which through the golden pipes empty the
golden oil out of themselves. And he answered and said
unto me, knowest thou not what these be and I said, no.
Now pay attention. Then he said, these are the two
annointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole
earth.
Well, let's turn right here to Revelation 11
I
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real quick and let's see what happens to these two
witnesses. See when this will meet its fulfillment.
JOHN: Go ahead.
DAVID KORESH: Remember, 2,000 years ago when
Christ walked on the earth he had some help, didn't he?
On the Mount of Transfiguration, do you remember who
appeared to him? With his disciples? Moses and
Elijah, right.
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID KORESH: Okay. Now, we already know in
Chapter 10 that the mighty angel's going to come down
having a book in his hand, right?
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID KORESH: Remember that?
JOHN: It's right there.
_ DAVID KORESH: Okay. And we know in verses 7
of éhapter 10 from the days of the voice of the seventh
angel when he begins to sound the mystery of God, those
seven thunders, those seven seals, should be finished.
How?
JOHN: As he hath --
DAVID KORESH: Declared to his servants, the
prophets.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID KORESH: Okay. Now, during this period
of time in chapter 11 there was given to me a reed like
Y
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unto a rod and the angel stood saying, rise and measure
the temple of God. Now, we know that in Zechariah's
prophecy the young man was trying to see how big
Jerusalem was. But God set him straight by saying, no,
Jerusalem will be inhabited with men as towns without
walls, because God will be a wall of fire around about
it. So we can't mistake that coming, right?
And the altar and them that worship therein.
Now, the altar we know is in the sanctuary. Okay?
Well, this temple of God is in heaven and we can come
up hither, because the door is open, especially when
the Lamb comes because the Lamb's message is to direct
our minds, not to tabernacles made by the hands of men,
but to the truth that's been developed by the testimony
of God, heavenly places. We've got to come within
1- .
ourselves and find truth, don't we? The kingdom of God
is not within you. By knowing the truth first, you
won't be in the kingdom of God.
Now, but the court which is without the
temple leave out and measure it not, for it is given to
the Gentiles and the holy city shall they tread under
foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto
my two witnesses as they shall prophecy a thousand two
hundred and three score days, clothed in sackcloth.
Now, these guys don't make much money, do they? Huh?
JOHN: They're not expected to.
DAVID
witnesses? Who15
KORESH: Exactly. Who are these
are these two annointed ones? These
are the two olive trees. Oh, remember Zechariah? And
the two candlesticks standing before the God of the
earth. This is exactly what Zechariah said, right?
And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of
their mouth and
will hurt them,
These
not in the daysdevoureth their enemies, and if any man
he must in this manner be killed.
have power to shut heaven, that it rain
of their prophecy. Just like Elijah,
right? And have power over the waters to turn them to
blood and to smite the earth with all plagues as often
as they will. Just like Moses, right? No wonder Moses
and Elijahappeared to Christ, right? Two thousand
years ago.
, And when they shall have finished their
tesgimony, mind you in sackcloth. I mean, nobody
thinks they're worth anything, right? The beast -- the
nasty old beast - that ascends out of the bottomless
pit shall make war against them and shall overcome them
and kill them. And their dead bodies shall line the
street of the great city, which spiritually is called
Sodom and Egypt. Not literal Sodom, not literal Egypt,
but spiritually they're the same thing.
Where also our Lord was crucified. And they
of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations
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16
shall see their dead bodies three days and a half and
shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over
them and make merry and shall send gifts one to
another, because these two prophets tormented them that
dwell on the earth. And after three days and a half,
the spirit of life from God entered into them and they
stood upon their feet and great fear fell upon them
which saw them.
And they heard a great voice from heaven
saying come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven
in a cloud and their enemies beheld them. And the same
hour was there a great earthquake and the tenth part of
the city fell and in the earthquake were slain of men
seven thousand and the remnant were frightened and gave
glory to the God of heaven. The second woe is past and
behold the third woe cometh quickly. And the seventh
angel sound - remember, this is the last trumpet of
the seventh seal, remember?
In the seventh seal the seven trumpets are
revealed. Now, here's the last trumpet. The seventh
angel sounded and there were great voices in heaven
saying, the kingdoms of this world are become the
kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ, and he, Christ,
shall reign for how long?
JOHN: Ever.
17
DAVID KORESH: And ever. And the four and
twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats,
fell upon their faces and worshipped God, saying we
give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and
wast, and art to come because thou has taken to thee
thy great power and hast reigned. And the nations were
angry. Remember Psalms 2? And thy wrath is come and
the time of the dead, that they should be judged. Thou
shouldest give reward unto thy servants, the prophets,
and to the saints, and to them that fear thy name,
small and great, and should destroy them which destroy
the earth.
And the temple of God was opened in heaven,
and there was seen in his temple the ark of his
testament and, this is the serious one up hither, and
4.
there were lightnings, voices of thunder, and an
earthquake and great hail. There appeared a great
wonder in heaven and behold - oh, this is my mother
here, John. I know you don't know her, but nonetheless
a woman clothed with the sun, the moon under her
feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. 92
And she being with child cried, travailing in
birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared
another wonder in heaven and behold a great red dragon,
having seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns upon
his heads. His tail drew the third part of the stars
I
O I
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of heaven and did cast them to the earth, and the
dragon which stood before the woman, which was ready to
be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was
born. And she brought forth a man child who was to
rule all nations with a what? Rod of iron - remember
Psalms 2?
JOHN: Umhum.
DAVID KORESH: And her child was caught up
unto God and to his throne. Okay. Now, nations.
There's a nation in heaven fighting. You know, war
started off in heaven first. Remember that. Sin, sin
started in heaven, it didn't start on earth. Remember
that? So we look at chapter 13 when indiscernible!
stands updn the sand of the sea and saw a beast rise up
out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, upon
¢. .
his,horns ten crowns and upon his heads the names of
blasphemy.
The beast which I saw was like to a leopard.
Huh! That was what Daniel says was a nation of Grecia
His feet the feet of a bear was Medo-Persia. His
mouth, the mouth of a lion, that was Babylon. All
commingled I guess. So this is Rome now, see, and the
fourth beast of Daniel says it will devour the other
three beast and become still all four beasts together
as one. And the dragon gave him his power and his seat
and great authority. Who's the dragon? Do you know?
C I
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JOHN: Well, I don't know if they're - who
they're referring to, no. Satan.
DAVID KORESH: Satan. Okay.
JOHN: Let me ask you before you go any
further. f
DAVID KORESH: Sure.
JOHN: In, in chapter 12:2 --
DAVID KORESH: Uh-huh.
JOHN: And she being with child, who's the
child?
DAVID KORESH: Well, the, the same one who's
to rule all nations with a rod of iron.
JOHN: Who's the child, David?
DAVID KORESH: Christ. Christ. The same one
as in Isaiah 66. That's me. Second time around.
, i JOHN: Okay.
i DAVID KORESH: Now, I know you don't realize
that, but let me just read the verse here, let me read
the verse here of how this works according to Isaiah
66. Okay? In Isaiah 66 - people think the prophecy
of Isaiah was for the Jews, but it's really not. Okay?
It says here --
JOHN: Where are you? .
DAVID KORESH: Chapter 66 of Isaiah.
JOHN: Okay. I'm sorry.
DAVID KORESH: verse 5. It says, hear the
20
word of the Lord ye that tremble at his word. And wow!
Just think, you know, in Psalms 45
tough guy, but really he's not. He
just to believe God so we can have
sanctified, be made holy, and made
heavens to come. Your brethren that
cast you out for my name's sake said
glorified. That's what people do to
look, I know the Lord Jesus.
You need to know Christ.the Lamb's a real
really wants you
a party, be
ready for the
hated you, that
let the Lord be
me. They say,
I love him very much.
I go, now, wait a minute. You know Christ,
right? Well, do you know the seven seals? No, I don't
need to know that. They don't care. But he shall
appear to your joy and they shall be ashamed. Why?
Because they don't know the guy their fighting at is
/- ,
really who? Christ. So a voice of noise from the
city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that
rendereth recompense to his enemies. Somebody's in
trouble, right? '
Now, before she travailed - remember
Revelation 12 - she brought
came, she was delivered of a
was born in the flesh before
flesh. Yes or no?
JOHN: That's what
DAVID KORESH: Whoforth. Before her pain
man child. I mean, Christ
he comes back in the
it says.
hath heard such a thing?
21
Who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to
bring forth in one day? Yeah. You see, what's going
to happen here in the near future, I mean very near, is
there's going to be a great big resurrection. And
Luther's going to be there and John Knox and Wesley and
Campbell and Hush and Jerome and Tyndall and Weinert
and a lot of men who sought after truth who Christ has
made atonement for them, although not knowing all the
truth they still fought for the light and although they
were killed and martyred.
From 31 A.D. all the way to this present day,
there have been faithful people who have stood up for
truth and when the Lamb comes he is the resurrection,
you know. When he goes through his last passion and
when he's rejected because people just don't care about
1. -
those four horses, do they? Nah! They're at ease,
they're sitting back, they don't - what's that four
hor ah, we don't care. It might be a revelation of
Christ. Well, we love the Lord, we don't care about
those horses though.
That's all right. We'll find out about the
rock with seven eyes. We'll find out about the
candlestick. The light will be made known to all. For
as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her
children. Shall I bring to the birth and not cause to
bring forth, saith the Lord. Shall I indiscernible!
22
cause to the bring forth and shut up the womb, saith
thy God? You'll find out there's going to be a lot of
people coming up out of the ground and they're going to
-- well, I know it sounds kind of crazy as of yet, but
they're going to do some real whooping. -
Rejoice you with Jerusalem and be glad with
her all ye that love her. Rejoice for joy with her all
ye that mourn for her. Now, anyway, we find out over
here that this will take place in verse 15 for,
behold, the Lord will come with fire and with his
chariots like a whirlwind. The Psalms will tell you,
the prophets will tell you -- there's 20,000 of these
to render his anger with fury and his rebukes with
flames of fire.
Same as Psalms 18 we already heard about.
For,by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with
alléflesh and the slain of the Lord shall be many, not
all. But, you know, they that sanctify themselves.
You see, you cannot sanctify yourselves with your own
imagination or your own opinions. You have to come up
hither, acknowledge your father who sits on the throne
and he's got seven things he wants you to look at.
Otherwise you're going to be in trouble.
And that purify themselves in the gardens
behind one tree. Remember when God told Adam and Eve
not to partake of that forbidden fruit? So the same is
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today. God's telling us there's seven things we've got
to know, John. And if we do not listen we're going to
taste the full effect of the evil that we've brought
upon our ownselves. 0kay. Eating swine's flesh and
the abomination in the mouth shall be consumed together
saith the Lord. For I know their works and their
thoughts.
It shall come that I will gather all nations
and tongues and they shall come and see my glory and I
will set a sign among them. And I will send those that
escape of them into the nations. This is where the
144,000, you'll find when you understand this a little
more clearer, go to all nations, because there's a lot
of people that don't have a chance to know these
things. To, to really back up, to get a, a better
understanding of these things, we look at 65, verse 1.
i And this is where we're at right now. See,
there's a lot of people here and a lot of other people
that wanted to come here but, you know, I wouldn't let
them come, because like I say, things got kind of late
in time. But, you know, this is an honest truth. It
says, I am sought - are you there in 65:1?
JOHN: Hang on. I am there.
DAVID KORESH: I am sought of them that asked
not for me. I am found of them that sought me not. I
mean, nobody knew who I was, John. You know what I
24
mean? I said, behold me, behold me --
JOHN: Hey, there aren't a lot that do.
DAVID KORESH: I know. But I'm saying,
behold me, behold me to a nation not called by my name.
And I have a new name now. I have a new name that
nobody knows but I, myself. But to those who know
about the key of David, I will give you my new name.
You know, I have spread out my hands all the
day to rebellious people. This I've been doing since
1985, which walking a way that's not good. Do you know
what that way is? After their own what? Thoughts. A
people that provoketh me to anger continually to my
face. Right in front of me this has happened to me.
That sacrifice in gardens and burn incense upon altars
fo brick. Which remain among the graves and lodge in
monuments.
5 I mean, these people, they like to look at
Luther's grave and Knox and Wesley -- they like to
always build on sepulchers of the dead prophets, of the
dead wise men, of the dead reformers. But you know
what? These people eat swine's flesh and broth of
abominable things is in their vessels. You see clam
chowder, oysters, you know, all these things that God
says don't eat.
Now, you know, I could forgive people for
something like that, you know what I mean?I
. 2 5
JOHN: I certainly hope so.
DAVID KORESH: Because, you see, a lot of
people don't realize the importance of something like
that. But what really causes the anger is that they
have the nerve to turn and say stand by thyself.7 Come
not near me for I'm holier than thou. They think
they're holier than me and they don't even know who I
am yet.
These are a smoke in my nose and a fire that
burneth all the day. You know why? In Psalms 45 it
says thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things,
right? The father gave me the book. I know the book
backwards and forwards. Behold, it is written before
me. I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even
recompense unto their bosom. Your iniquities and the
iniguities of your fathers together, saith the Lord,
which have burned incense upon the mountains and
blasphemed me upon the hills. Therefore will I measure
their former works to their bosom and those works are
not in harmony with the seals.
But here is the key, though. Thus saith the
Lord, as the new wine is found in the cluster and one
saith, destroy it not for a blessing is in it. So I
will do for my servant's sake, that I may not destroy
them all. What does this mean? Let's pretend me and
you are walking out to a vineyard, all right?
26
JOHN! Uhhuh.
DAVID KORESH: A vineyard that's being
gleaned. And you look down and you see this little
cluster of grapes and you say to yourself, man, I sure
would like to, to take that cluster of grapes and make
me some wine. I'd like to do something for myself.
I'd like to do something nice for myself. So instead
of just letting it go rot, destroying it, you say, hey,
I want this. A blessing's in it. Okay?
So, you know, like you and like Jim and a lot
of people, you know, like a lot of people in the world.
You know, it may be true they may not be righteous
according to deeds. They might not be righteous
according to their knowledge of the truth. But there
are some people that are doing the best they can. So
this is where it's proven that righteousness with
Chrfst is not based upon a person's ability to keep all
the law.
Or ability to learn all there is to know.
But so it is for my servant's sake. I will bring forth
a seed out of Jacob and out of Judah an inheritor of my
mountains. Remember the 144,000. And mine elect shall
inherit it and my servants shall dwell there. Okay?
And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks and the valley of
Achor, a place for the herds to lie down and for my
people that have what? Sought me.
27
T There's a lot of people trying to find Christ
today, right? And we can find him when he comes to
reveal the seven seals. The rock with seven eyes. The
candle with seven lamps, seven, seven, seven, seven,
seven, seven, seven, right? But you are they that
forsake the Lord, my friend. You forget my holy
mountain. You don't care about the 144,000,
You don't want to be sealed by the angel who
from the east, do you? That prepare a table
troop.
You look out the window here. See
guys out there? Are they eating good? Huh?
given us our six gallons of milk yet? No.
JOHN: Uh-uh.do you?
ascends
for thy
all those
Have you
DAVID KORESH: Okay. And that furnish the
1. '
drink offering to that number. Do you know what theI
number is? Six, six, six. That's the number, my
friend. All the prophets talk about the mark of the
beast. And if you listen long enough, I'll even show
you what the number of that name is. And it's not the
Pope either. You can tell these Protestant baloneys
that they're no different than the pontiffs.
Now, the Pope is a man like anybody else and
I don't condemn anybody. If I could, I'd like to sit
down in front of a pontiff and try to show him the
seven seals. The pontiff would say, he's a devil, he's
28
this, he's that. Hey!
JOHN: I don't think so.
DAVID KORESH: Everybody in the dark ages was
a devil. Everybody was. Do you agree with me?
JOHN: You don't really think the Pope would
say that, do you?
DAVID KORESH: Would say what?
JOHN: That someone that said that's the
devil.
DAVID KORESH: Well, the thing of it is, you
know as well as I do that about every Protestant
movement says that the Pope is the great harlot, you
know? But I'm saying that the man is no different than
anybody else. He's trying to hold down a job and he's
doing the best he knows how to do. Okay? And that's
4. '
what I'm saying. _
? I'm saying even the Pope, he could learn the
seven seals if he'd listen. Wouldn't he? And then he
would be a great king and a great priest. You see,
where I come from, you know, there is no problem with
people getting all heady and highminded about someone
else's position. But anyway, here is the warning.
JOHN: That's basically what I told you too,
isn't it?
DAVID KORESH: Okay. Verse 11. But ye are
they that forsake the Lord. I mean you should be here
29
with us, learning these prophecies, you know. That
forget my holy mountain. I mean you're concerned about
Mount Zion, aren't you? Are you out there preparing a
table for that troop? Are you furnishing drinks for
that number? V
Therefore will I number you to the sword and
ye shall bow down to the slaughter. You know why?
Because when I called, you did not answer. And when I
spake, you did not hear. But you did evil before mine
eyes and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
Therefore, let me tell you something said the Lord. My
servants shall eat, but you're going to be hungry. My
servants are going to drink, but you're going to be
thirsty. My servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be
ashamed.
, My servants shall sing for joy of heart, but
you're going to cry for sorrow of heart and howl for
vexation of spirit. And you will leave your name for a
curse unto my chosen. "For the Lord God will slay thee
and call his servants by another name. Why? That he
who blesseth himself in the earth, shall bless himself
in the God of what?
JOHN: Truth.
DAVID KORESH: Are there seven seals or not?
And he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the
God of truth. Because in that truth - God don't want
. 30
to talk about nobody's sins -- Zechariah said that
there's a stone with seven eyes. If you take a look
and take a listen, God says I will remove the iniquity
of - and one day God said I am more than willing to
forgive everybody's iniquities. This is the sonls
party. This is the - have you, have you had enough
after 6,000 years of doing it your own way?
Christ died for you 2,000 years ago. How do
you like it? Do you love this world? Six thousand
years later, Christ comes in the latter days. This is
the best you can do? Right before the end of the
world, this is the best you can do? Because the former
troubles are forgotten because they are hid from mine
eyes. 1
For behold I create new what? Heavens and a
1.
new what? Earth. And the former shall not be
J .
remembered nor come into mind. But be ye glad and
rejoice forever in that which I create, for behold I
create Jerusalem and rejoice in her people a joy. And
I will rejoice in Jerusalem and joy in my people and
the voice of weeping shall be heard no more in her, nor
the voice of crying.
There shall no more thence be an infant of
days or an old man hath not filled his days. For the
child shall die an hundred years old, but the sinner
being a hundred years old shall be accursed and they
31
shall build houses and inhabit them and they shall
plant vineyards and eat the fruit of them.
They shall not build and another inhabit.
They shall not plant and another eat. For as the days
of a tree are the days of my people and mine elect
shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall
not labor in vain nor bring forth in sorrow for they
are what?
JOHN: Blessed.
DAVID KORESH: The seed of the blessed of the
Lord and their offspring with them. And it shall come
to pass that before they call I will answer and while I
- they are yet speaking, I will hear. This is
according to Psalms - Isaiah ll now. The wolf and the
lamb shall feed together and the lion shall eat straw
like,the bullock and the dust shall be the serpent's
meati They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy
mountain.
Now this is the restitution of all things
that Acts talks about. So, what happens with this
Bible though? How come there's so many people out
there with their Bibles, slinging a Bible, and they
don't know these things. Well, let's go back to
Zechariah real quick. We've already learned about the
rocks. We've already learned about the light the
candlestick, right? We know that the Lamb is the i
- 32
branch, the offspring of the father, right?
And we're going to find out how that this
book, prophecy, can either be a blessing or a curse.
We already know in Revelation 11 that this beast is
going to fight against the two witnesses, right? And
the witnesses are the ones that witness to the fact
that the candlestick is the Christ. The fourth chapter
of Zechariah tells us that there's two olive trees that
stand by the Lord of the whole earth, right? Okay.
Now, here's how they witness. This is chapter 5.
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID KORESH: Then I turned and lifted up
mine eyes and looked and behold a flying roll. Flying
roll, huh? Hm. Do you know we're flying right now?
Do you know this earth is going around and around and
around? .
§ JOHN: Sure it is.
DAVID KORESH: It's flying through the air.
JOHN: But I don't think that's what they're
talking about here.
DAVID KORESH: Okey dokey.
JOHN: Do you?
DAVID KORESH2 Oh, I know it is.
JOHN: Do you think so?
DAVID KORESH: Well, let me explain. In the
beginning, God created heaven and earth. And God made
33
the sun, moon and the stars and says they're for signs
and seasons - signs, too. Remember that.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID KORESH: Okay. So for 365 days,
approximate, we have cycles and we have four seasons in
our times, okay? The whole Jewish law, the whole realm
of prophetic prophecy is based upon the Rosh Kaddish,
the new moon, the Shabbats, the feast days, right?
Time is very important, and when there's time
no longer, the mystery of God's going to be finished
how? As he declared to his servants, the prophets.
Now, the prophecies that were written of ancient time
are to travel through time until they meet their
fulfillment when there is time no longer. Now, what he
sees in the flying roll or a scroll or a book.
' Then he said unto me, what seest thou? And I
answered, I see a flying roll. The length thereof is
20 cubits and the breadth thereof is 10 cubits. Notice
that it's twice as long as it is tall, right? Now, if
we was to divide this book it would be ten by ten, ten
by ten, wouldn't we? Now, remember the Bible is
written in two parts, old and new testament. Now, then
said he unto me, this is the curse that goeth forth
over the face of the whole earth, for everyone that
stealeth.
Now, this curse is for everyone that
34
stealeth, right? Shall be cut off as on this side
according to it. And everyone that sweareth falsely,
everyone that swears shall be cut off as on that side
according to it. I will bring it forth. Now, what
does God bring forth in heaven that's going to be sent
to earth? A scroll, saith the Lord of hosts. He shall
enter into a house of the thief and to him that
sweareth falsely by my name. How many people do you
know claim to be teachers of the Bible?
JOHN: You're asking me?
DAVID KORESH: Yeah. Oh, quite a few
evidently, right - a lot of people, right? How
many - '
JOHN: Sure.
h DAVID KORESH: -- how many do you know are
making money off of teaching?
2 JOHN:l Well, probably everyone in a, in a
School of Theology.
DAVID Konssn; Okey doke.
JOHN: That's a safe bet, huh?
DAVID KORESH: Okay.
JOHN: And then your various religious
orders, etc., etc.
DAVID KORESH: Okay.
JOHN: Not too many don't make money off of
it, do they? »
C I
35
DAVID KORESH: Right. And it shall remain in
the midst of his house and shall consume it with the
timber thereof and the stones thereof. Now, remember
in the Book of Revelation, I Jesus come. My reward is
with me? What did the Father give him? A scroll. A
book, right? One and the same. Okay. He says for I
testify to every man that hears the words of this
prophecy, if any man shall add to the words of this
prophecy, God shall add unto him the plagues written
therein.
O00, isn't that a fearful curse? It is. And
if any man shall take away from the words of this
prophecy, God shall take away his name out of the
Lamb's Book of Life and the words of this prophecy.
That's the curse, that's the flying scroll. You see,
John'the revelator knew that after his death, that the
heathen would come in and deny his word. They would
build up and document. It's always been the nature of
man to worship dead prophets and to always kill the
living ones.
Because it's a form of spiritualism which
allows men to do their own thoughts and not have to
conform or have to obey the jurisdiction God places
over them through the mouth of the prophets. Now,
everybody loves Christ now that he's gone, but one day
will come and it is here already when Christ will be
t 36
revealed by himself, by revealing the mysteries. Now,
then the angel that talked with me went forth and said
unto me, Lift up now thine eyes and see what is this is
that goeth forth
And I0 |
said, what is it? He said, this is an
ephah that goeth forth. An ephah is a basket. And he
said, moreover, this is their resemblance through all
the earth. Huh. Now, this flying scroll, if it is, if
it is the Bible, it's in the houses of a lot of
thieves, isn't it? It's in the houses of a lot of
people that make money and yet they're swearing falsely
by God's name, right?
Probably a lot of preachers and teachers in
R
the world that have a copy. What do you think?
JOHN:
-I DAVID
=1}
ephah --
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
license.
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVIDSure.
KORESH: Now, their resemblance as an
David.
KORESH: Wait a minute.
You've got a copy, too, don't you?
KORESH: Oh, yeah, but I have a
You've got a license?
KORESH: Let's see if we can learn --
You made some money too.
KORESH: No, I haven't. I've never
37
made money off.this book, my friend. Never. Not one
dime.
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
Nobody has ever
this truth.
JOHN:
you -f
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVIDOff the Bible?
KORESH: Never.
Come on. '
KORESH: Come on. That's honest.
worked for nothing more than I have in
I, I didn't say, I'm not saying that
KORESH: Now, why don't you call up --
-- didn't work for it.
KORESH: Why don't you call up, why
don't you gall up Mr. Gordon Fatta, you know, the guy
who's a multimillionaire. Because when his son --
" JOHN: Uh-huh. N
§ DAVID KORESH: -- first heard this message,
that son alone,
dollars a year in his little business in
JOHN:
DAVID
to give it to me. I have always refused
means and stuff
message.
JOHN:
DAVID28 years old, he grossed six million
Hawaii.
Uh-huh.
KORESH: When he came to me, he wanted
never to take
from people that come into this
0
KORESH: Now, once they come into the
38
message if they want to help me do the message --
JOHN: Yes.
DAVID KORESH: -- then they're allowed to
hold their accounts and they're allowed to help the
expenditures with their own accounts.
JOHN: Uhhuh.
. DAVID KORESH: I don't take their money.
Now, you say that for anybody else that you know that
preaches the gospel.
JOHN: Well, what purchased all of those
weapons and all the other stuff in there?
DAVID KORESH: Well, we'll tell you that
later.
JOHN: Gratuities?
DAVID KORESH: Huh?
JOHN: Gratuities?
I¢1 DAVID KORESH: Now, remember, I have a Camaro
restoration company myself.
JOHN: A what?
DAVID KORESH: A Camaro restoration company.
JOHN: Located here in Waco.
DAVID KORESH: Well, supposedly. It's just
it tell under. You economy's so bad here. Originally
it was in California.
JOHN: Uhhuh.
DAVID KORESH: And I'm a musician.
39
JOHN! Yes.
DAVID KORESH: There's things that a lot
of things that people don't know about me. Believe me,
everything I do returns again to the work of God.
JOHN: Uhhuh.
DAVID KORESH: Now, let's see what this
lesson is. Maybe I might be guilty of this. Who
knows. I'm just trying to show you something.
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID KORESH: Now, we know the man on the
red horse has something to do with Christ, don't we.
And the lesson is is a rock with seven eyes, if you
want your sins forgiven, there's a candlestick which is
the Lamb. Seven eyes, hey, there's a book. It's a
curse to those who are trying to make money off of it.
¢~ '
Okay;
I? Now, this is their resemblance. In other
words, their refers to those who are thieves and trying
to make money. An ephah, in other words they've got a
basket, don't they? Okay? Behold and lifted up to
be a talent of lead. How much is lead worth? Nothing.
And this is a woman that sits in the midst of the
ephah. Anyone who pays money at a church is
contributing to Babylon. Babylon is the great whore
who is made rich by the abundances of her fornication.
The truth of the matter is look. After
40
John's day, the apostles gave their doctrine free and
then the next step is sometime in the future, Christ is
going to come again with his book to give it free. Our
sanctuary is in heaven, my friend. Anyone that
collects money to build up churches and all thatfkind
of stuff, that builds up churches and they're not
teaching the seven seals, they're out to make your
pockets clean.
But God foretold it a long ago. It's
worthless. All their money, the millions they've got,
will save no souls, only the mercy of Christ will save
souls. Their resemblance. Everybody knows the
churches are after money. An ephah. The resemblance
in all the=earth. Yeah. They're thieves and they're
robbers. They rob the flock of God. Behold there were
lifted up a talent of lead. This is a woman that sits
in he midst of the ephah.
He said this is wickedness and he cast it
into the midst of the ephah, remember, which is a
basket, and he casteth the weight of the lead of the
mouth thereof. Then lifted mine eyes and looked and
behold there came out two women, double wickedness, and
the wind was in their wings, for they had wings like
the wings of a stork. In other words, it procreates
don't it.
And they lifted up the ephah between the
earth and the heaven. Then said I unto the41
angel that
talked with me, whither do these bear the ephah? He
said unto me,
Shinar, which
and set there upon her own base.
So, whenever we learn the meaning
branch is, what the rock is, what the seven
we know that only the Lamb can reveal these
Otherwise, we'll find ourselves disallowing
testament. For I testify to every man thatto build it a house in the land of what?
is Babylon, and it shall be established
of what the
eyes are,
things.
his
hears the
words of this prophecy. If you try to unlock it
yourself, if you try to give your opinions and you try
to carry on a church without the aid of Christ and God,
you are confusion. You are simply in trouble.
Now, remember, a lot of people didn't know
this, and I say forgive them. Because they
what they're doing, right? But now if they
4don't know
reject
these counsels, well, what's going to happen is they're
going to have to pay for it. Christ died to cover a
lot of sins 2,000 years ago. A lot of sins that men
naturally will commit. That's why I keep saying for
people, just show me where the seals are in
and then I'll know you know the truth.the Bible
Because the seals will lead us into a truth
that warrants this. Hey, in the latter days the Bible
will speak. The flying scroll is a curse to those who
42
misuse it, but a blessing to those who realize they
don't understand it. Only to those kind of people can
Christ be beneficial. Now, let's back up
End of Tape #75!
I
J
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO 8 FIREARMS
4
TAPE #76
3/7/93
A-H. _ AQMQ
Tape 76! _2
DAVID KORESH: -- with the timber thereof and
the stones thereof. Okay. Do you remember the
prophecies of Daniel? Daniel 2, about that image?
Remember that?
JOHN COX: Okay.1
DAVID KORESH: The head of gold, the arms of
silver, the belly of --
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: -- brass --
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: -- the legs of iron? Okay.
Let's jump over here real quick to
just going to read a small portion
know that you get flooded out with
~ JOHN COX: No.' I --
g DAVID KORESH: -- at one
i JOHN COX: -- still have
Daniel 2. w?
DAVID KORESH: Okey-doke
JOHN COX: Hang on.Habakkuk. We're
out of it, because I
too much --
time.
my place marked at
DAVID KORESH: Habakkuk is just a page or two
in front of what we just read.
JOHN COX: Okay. In front of Zechariah?
Gotch ya.
DAVID XORESH: Okay. GOt it?
3
JOHN cox: No.
DAVID KORESH: Anyway, keep going. It's,
it's in front of Zechariah.
JOHN COX: I got it. I got it. I got it.
DAVID KORESH: Okay. ~
' JOHN COX: Where, where?
DAVID KORESH: Chapter 3.
JOHN COX: Go ahead.
DAVID KORESH: Okay. Now, this prayer of
Habakkuk, the prophet upon shigionoth -- shigion
shigionoth means music to turbulent lyrics. Okay?
JOHN cox: Um-hum. J
DAVID KORESH: Now he said to the Lord, I've
heard thy speech and was afraid. Well, whatever the
speech was, we can only get a small part of it - well,
what happens is is that we see in Chapter 2, verse 3 --
loék at Chapter 2, verse 2. And the Lord answered me
and said write the vision and make it plain upon
tables. WM
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID XORESH: And he may run that readeth
it. You know. For the vision is yet for an appointed
time, but at the end it shall speak. Right?
JOHN COX: Umhum.
DAVID KORESH: Okay. So, in the end, this
prophecy will be made plain, won't it? Right?
JOHN COX: Um-hum.4
.DAvID XORESH: Okay. So, in other words, we
see in verses 20 of the same chapter, but the Lord is
where?
JOHN COX: In his holy temple.
DAVID XORESH: And what should that attitude
of the world be? Let all the earth what? Keep --
JOHN COX: Keep silence --
DAVID KORESH: -- silence before him.
JOHN COX: - before him.
DAVID KORESH: Okay. SO -- but the thing of
it is is that the father is going to send his son to do
the talking, right?
{JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: I come. My reward
to give to every man. Okay. Now, Habakkuk
meaing of this when he says I've heard thy
was afraid. O Lord, revive thy work in the
the years. Now, when»the father returns tois with me
sees the
speech and
midst of
earth again
in his cloud and in his chariot, a lot of wicked people
are going to be hurt. Right? In the midst of the
years make known, make known what? Well, there": a lot
of prophecies men don't know, correct? In wrath
remember mercy. Well, that's what we're trying to work
out here, isn't it? Right?
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: God came from Teman and the
Holy One from Hount Paran. Selah. His glory covered
the heavens and the earth was full of his praise. His
brightness was as the light. He had horns coming out
of his hand, and there was the hiding of his power.
How many horns does a lamb have?
JOHN COX: Two.
DAVID KORESH: Seven.
JOHN COX: There you go.
DAVID KORESH: Remember?
JOHN COX: Go ahead. Go ahead.
DAVID KORESH: And --
JOHN COX: You got me in a weak
DAVID KORESH: Okay. But we're
right?
. JOHN COX: Go ahead.
Y DAVID xo1u~:sa= Now, the subject
is Christ, isn't it? The lamb with seven
seven horns - _
JOHN COX: Seven horns.
DAVID XORESH: -~ right?
JOHN COX: You got it.moment.
correct now,
of that book
eyes and
DAVID KORESH: Okay. so, there's nothing
more powerful than the Word of God made flesh, is
there? And I'm telling you here every day, John, that
I love you more than I could ever express humanly. I'm
I
0 0
A 6
trying to tell you that I love this world more than you
could ever imagine. But I'm trying to tell you that
someone that's greater than I is telling me to wait.
While people are speaking and they're developing
opinions and theories, they don't understand where I'm
coming from.
JOHN COX: Well, it's hard.
DAVID KORESH: I know it is.
JOHN COX: You --
DAVID KORESH: That's why it's --
JOHN COX: It is.
DAVID XORESH: -- that's why I have to be
stuck here, so I can keep talking to you.
JOHN COX: Well --
: DAVID XORESH: Do you understand? I mean --
and Ih-- and, and, and I'm, I'm praying every --
,1 JOHN COX: Well, I, I hope you don't say you
.1}
got to be stuck there to talk to me. You know, you can
talk to me.
DAVID KORBCH: Well, it - see, the father is
watching what you guys are doing from every angle.
JOHN COX: well, do you think others might
want to hear your word too?
DAVID KORESH: Oh, they will. They will.
Promise. They will.
JOHN COX: Well, I hope so.
" 7
DAVID XORESH: But, see, we want everybody --
like I said, those tour young men that were lost?
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: They don't have to be lost.
Remember, Christ is the resurrection. .
JOHN COX: Well, more than four young men,
huh?
' DAVID KORESH: That's true too.
JOHN COX: Sure.
DAVID KORESH: But none on this side are
worried.
JOHN COX: Do what?
DAVID KORESH: None on this side are worried.
JOHN COX: well, what about Peter?
DAVID KORESH: He's not worried.
~ JOHN COX: Well, the four young men aren't
woéried either, but we --
DAVID KORESH: Well, I'm saying but they
had - my
JOHN COX: -- we sorrow over all of them,
don't we?
DAVID XORESH: Ex-- well, not us.
J?JHN cox: Why?
DAVID KORESH: Because we know where we're
going, where we're at, where we've been. I know. You
don't understand. No, let me keep on saying - let me
8
keep going. Now, so we know that this one who comes,
and his brightness was as a light and he had horns
coming out of his hand and there was the hiding of his
power. We know that Christ is hidden in the hand of
God, right?
JOHN COX: Umhum. i
DAVID KORESH: The revelation of Christ is
the word of God, right? And the lamb will come, won't
he? Now, it says here, before him with the pestilence.
Remember Psalms 18? My father is going to have to help
me against my confrontation if I can't make men listen
to me, right? N
JOHN COX: Um-hum. '
DAVID KORBSH: And burning coals went forth
out of his feet. He stood and he measured the earth,
and beheld he drove the son of the nations. Remember
Revelation 10? His feet of the wor-- burning brass,
right? And the everlasting mountains were scattered
and the perpetual hills did bow. His ways are
everlasting. I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction
and the curtains in the land of Midian do tremble. Was
the Lord displeased against the rivers? was an anger
against the rivers? was thy wrath against the sea?
That thou dost ride upon mine horses and my chariots of
salvation. Thy bow - remember Psalms 45?
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
9
DAVID KORESH: was made quite naked according
to the oaths of the tribes. See, Israel promised
whatever God said they would do, right? So, when
Israel does what God says, God will defend them. And
this is the oath, even thy word. In other words, thy
bow is made quite naked. What's God's weapon? His
word. According to the oaths of the tribes. Even thy
word. Selah. Thy didst clean the earth with rivers.
The mountains saw thee and they trembled. This is all
during the sixth seal now. The overflowing of the
waters passed by the deep, uttered his voice, and
lifted up his hands on high. The sun and the moon
stood still their habitation. At the light of thine
arrows they went. At the shine of thy glittering spear
that has marched through the land of indignation. Thou
did thresh the heathen in anger. Wow. That's
tegrible, isn't it? Why? Because thou wentest forth
for the salvation of thy people, even for the salvation
with thine annointed,- You know the Annointed One in
Psalms 2, don't you?
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: Remember Psalms 18? If y'all
guys give me too much of a hassle, the father's going
to have to help me. And then everyone who's been able
to hear - well, look. Psalms 45 -- what -- the guy --
maybe he is wrong, but we should be nice and, you know,
- 10
everyone is setting their own judgment right now. You
see? And then we're going to deliver them. We're
going to overthrow this nation as an example to all of
the nations and we're going to deliver all the honest
at heart and all those who really want to know the
truth. Thou woundest the head out of the house of the
wicked. How? By discovering the foundation into the
neck. What foundation? What neck? You know. You
know. Remember? The head of gold, the arms of silver,
the belly of brass, the legs of iron, the feet part of
iron and part of clay. Aren't we here?
JOHN COX: Yep.
DAVID KORESH: We are here. It's time. It's
time for men to learn how to fear God. But before,
we're going to allow it to be shown why men need to
learn to fear God. You see, me, I'm poor and I'm weak1.
and I'm humble and I'm just a poor cult leader out here
3
in the middle of Waco, Texas. Do you know what I mean?
And I ain't hurting nobody. I never have hurt anybody.
Yes, I have some things maybe I shouldn't have. But,
of course, remember, on the other hand, I may be kind
of crazy. I might be a great politician. I might be a
king. I mean, hey, it Vatican have its own little
country, can't I have my own little country? Just one
little count- I'll even pay taxes. Just please let me
have my little country. May be too much, though.
' ll
Well, please. I may be insane. Help me, help me.
Just send some people that will show me the seven
seals. Anyway, thou didst strike through with his
staff the head of his villages. They came out of the
whirlwind to scatter me. Waaaaah. You see, your
rejoicing is to devour the poor secretly. That's why
you won't let us out to the media. I know you should
feel bad about that. But that's all right, because
it's all going to work out anyway. Thou dost walk
through the sea with -- did you know God's going to
open up the Mediterranean the Pacific and the Atlantic?
He's going to open up a way in all the oceans, the
prophets say, back to the land of Israel. So, when I
go back over there with the Murkabah phonetic! and my
father delivers me and my people here and has to deal
with you, we're going to go back over to the land of
Isr?el and we're going to take possession of Israel.
It sounds funny, I know, but, like I say, there's so
many prophecies you don't know yet.
JOHN COX: It's hard to believe, huh?
DAVID KORESH: It is hard to believe.
Habakkuk says -- well, right here. I mean, it's
already been written ahead of time. It says right
hers. Da, da, da, da - da, da, da, da, da. Verse
five of chapter 1. What does that verse say there?
JOHN COX: Behold ye among the heathen and
I 12
regard and wonder marvelously, for I will work a work
in your days which ye will not believe though it be
told you. How often does that happen? Huh?
DAVID KORESH: It's fixing to. It's fixing
to. Well, we're negotiating because -- f
JOHN COX: But that, that's a lot of times,
though. You know?
DAVID KORESH: Well, not really.
JOHN COX: There, there are a lot of works
that, that happen and people just can't understand
them. Peo-- they, they --
DAVID KORESH: Okay. Now --
JOHN COX: -- just don't comprehend them.
,DAVID KORESH: Okay.
JOHN COX: It's not because they're bad
people. They just don't comprehend them.
j DAVID KORESH: Well, remember, none are good.
None are righteous. No, not one. Okay. Let me --
let's go back to Psalms 40 and let's lay a foundation
here in Psalms 40 so we can make sure that I know who I
am, all right? This is, this is where our problem
usually stems from, is a lot of people don't understand
who I am. Okay. Now, in Psalms 40 --
JOHN COX: Is this right --
DAVID KORESH: Remember the Psalms?
JOHN COX: Yeah. I'm at 40.
13
DAVID XORESH: Okay. Now, let's pretend that
you believed I was Christ. Right? And in believing
that I was Christ, you know, you're all happy to see me
and me and you, we're, we're really happy to see each
other. You
said to me,waited a long time for me, right? And you
you said, Lord -- I said no, John, just
call me Dave. He would say all right. You know, okay?
And I would say all right. Well, Dave, what was it
like 2,000 years ago when you were being punished and
pushed around by the, by the Roman judiciary? You
know, what was really like? Then I would say well,
look. I waited patiently for the Lord. He inclined to
me and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of a
horrible pit. You know about the grave, don't you?
Out of the mired clay. And he set my feet upon a rock,
the same rock Zechariah talks about. Same as Psalms
' |'
131:} Right? Now, when he took me back home to heaven,
he established me in the mediatorial covenants. It
took quite awhile to get this all sorted out, because
mankind, every soul is precious, and it's very
confusing.
has to be a
Everlasting
established
and earth.
establishedEvery soul is very confusing. And there
perfect plan established once and for all.
righteousness was the promise that would be
with Christ as a mediator between heaven
Remember that. But, finally, he
my goings. He gave me a book, didn't he?
14
JOHN COX: Yeah.
DAVID KORESH: Now, the song of the lamb in
Revelation 15, he had put a new song in my mouth, even
praise to our God. Now, many shall see it. They'll
see the, the uniqueness between the seven seals; unlike
any other covenant, and fear and shall trust in the
Lord. Blessed is that man, John, that maketh the Lord
his trust and respects not the proud nor such as turn
aside to lies. Anything contrary to seven seals is a
lie. Remember the rock? Remember the candlestick?
Many, O Lord, my God, are thy wonderful works which
thou hast done, and I know these things. I saw these
things, John. And thy thoughts which are to us word --
even you" John. There's the John of this world -- but,
you know, that came through your mother and your father
and their mother and father and their mother and father
and their mother and father. You know, the world's
bad, that's true, and there's a lot of war and killing,
but God's judgment is merciful.
JOHN OOX: Hey. That's what we discussed the
other night and there's --
DAVID KORESI-I: Exactly.
JOHN COX: -- a lot of love too, isn't there?
DAVID KORESH: Exactly. You see. And thy
thoughts, which are to us words, they can be reckoned
up and ordered to thee. Now, if I were declared --
15
now, John, I cou-- I could teach you so many things
above and beyond my normal frame of speaking right now
you wouldn't believe it. But these people know,
because they've been here. As I teach higher and
higher realms of knowledge and understanding, my voice
changes.
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: But, of course, like I say,
I'm the dayspring and the clay. I'm hiding. I look
like a person, which I am a person. And I am a person;
I've been here for 33 years. But, there's something a
little more deeper underneath the skin. Now, that more
than can be numbered. Well, wouldn't it be nice
knowing these wonderful thoughts about God that God has
for us? What can you do? Can you sacrifice? Can you
give an offering for it?' No. Sacrifice normally --
thét it's not desired. God doesn't want anything from
you, John. Nine ears has thou opened. Burnt offering
and sin offering, that's not required. You know what
God wants? Then said I, lo, I come. How?
JOHN COX: In the volume of the book.
DAVID KORESH: It's written of who?
JOHN COX: It's written of me.
DAVID KORBSH: It's written of me. I've got
a book I wan- I want you to know who I am. I told
Robert, I said, Robert, I want you to know everything
[
16
about me. If I've done wrong, if I've done right. I
want you to know everything. And he was going to be
able to stay over there and live with us. I didn't
mind. You see, this --
JOHN cox: All right. I think --
DAVID KORESH: -- is the last sacriice --
JOHN COX: -- I think, David, you mis-- you
misunderstand that Robert's purpose for being there
wasn't to stay there, wasn't to live there. You know
that and I know that, right?
DAVID KORESH: Well, I knew that also, but
that doesn't mean he couldn't change. I mean, 2,000
years ago the Romans and Centurions were sent to arrest
Christ several times.
JOHN COX: Well, like I explained --
DAVID xonzsa: When they --
Q JOHN COX: -- to you the other night when I
was doing the same thing that Robert did there.
DAVID KORESH: Uh-huh.
JOHN COX: It was work. That's what it was.
It was work tor -- with a purpose in mind, and he had a
purpose in mind and it wasn't to be converted or
anything else. And, and you --
DAVID KORESH: Yeah, but --
JOHN COX: -- understand that. I understand
it.
17
DAVID KORESH: The truth converts us. We
convert to truth, right? That he that swears on
himself shall swear on the God of truth. Now, Robert
knew one thing about us: we were truthful.
JOHN COX: Well, I, I can't comment on it. I
haven't talked to Robert and met Robert or anything
else.
DAVID KORESH: He's a
JOHN COX: Well, I, I'm sure he
DAVID KORESH: He just, he just
critiqued
God told me all about him. Anda little bit. But, like I say,good boy.
is.
needs to be
you know, my
I open - with opened
arms. You know? Open arms. Anyway, we'll find out
about this later. Okay?
JOHN COX: Umhum.
" DAVID KORBSH: "I just want him to be able to
have a chance to talk with me, to know that I still
have not cut him off, and everything he's learned so
far still applies. You know, God can fix us up real
good. This nation can still sta- this nation can
stand as a light to all of the nations. God can bless
this nation a thousand-fold greater than it's ever been
blessed. It y'all receive your
forget about my ugly face. You
allow the truth to be heard and
decisions. Unidentified voiceMessiah in truth --
know? If you just will
let men make their
in background not
O O
18
discernib1e.!_ Nineveh can repent, just like ancient
Nineveh. You don't need to be destroyed. You don't
need to be overthrown.
_ JOHN COX: He is --
DAVID KORESH: I'm to -- f
JOHN COX: -- he is forgiven too, isn't he?
DAVID KORESH: I have always forgiven
people --
JOHN COX: That's not what I said, David.
But I, I appreciate what you said. Okay? Right?
V DAVID KORESH: If Robert considers what he's
been shown, because he did look into that book real
serious, and it did conflict with his job. I knew
it -- ,
JOHN COX: Sure.
DAVID KORESH: -- was conflicting with his
jog. You see, he did see something. And you could
tell that morning he was really worried, and that's why
I tried to let him know. I says, Robert --
JOHN COX: Do you think he may have been
worried for his own safety?
DAVID KORESH: No. No, no, no, no. No.
JOHN COX: Why don't you think so?
DAVID KORESH: Well, why should he?
JOHN COX: And what if, what if he had been
caught in there at the appointed time?
19
DAVID KORESH: Well, here's the thing.
JOHN COX: Whatever that time was. You know,
I don't know, but --
DAVID KORESH: He was to signal. But here's
the thing, the thing of it was why didn't I just take
him hostage? Because --
JOHN COX: Why didn't you tell him: Robert,
it's time for you to leave. I know who you are. I
know why you're here.
DAVID KORESH: Hey, I told him that.
JOHN COX: Well, not directly.
DAVID KORESH: I told him, I said -- I told
him, I said --
.JOHN COX: Not directly though.
DAVID KORESH: I said, Robert -- I looked out
the window. I says, Robert, they're coming now. And I
tuned around and he -- I kept looking out the window,
and I turned around and looked at him real sorrowful.
I says, Robert, you know what I've taught you. You
know what you've been shown out of the book.
JOHN COX: What was his re--
DAVID KORBSH: That right there --
JOHN COX: What was his response? "
DAVID KORESH: Just his eyes looked down. He
was just -- he just -- you know --
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
20
DAVID KORESH: You know, he, he had never --
he's never dealt with people like us before. You can't
blame him.
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: He was confused. Same as
Pilate. Pilate was confused. Pilate wanted to let
Christ go.
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: We're not the typical everyday
kind of cult. Hopefully you can see that or begin to
see that. You know, there's something a little
different with us. Now --
JOHN COX: Do, do you think that, that you
would like to refute some of the things that you heard
on TV and some of the other comments that you heard
that 4- _
; .
k DAVID KORESH: Well, see, the comments --
JOHN COX: -- you know, are confused, are,
are very speculative in nature and, and people that
just don't understand?
DAVID KORESH: See, I can work with you.
JOHN COX: I hope so.
DAVID KORESH: Because you're looking at
these things too.
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: And by you looking at these
2 l
things, you're going to see something. If you keep
looking at that book, you're going to see something.
Things are going to get clearer and clearer. I
promise.
J O1-IN COX: Um-hum . Y
DAVID KORESH: So, if you don't harden your
heart, if you don't act like Pharaoh --
' JOHN COX : Um-hum .
DAVID KORBSH: - you won't be punished.
This is not a game of being right. I'm not trying to
tell you I'm right and you're wrong. I'm trying to say
let's look together and let's both be right.
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
,DAVID KORESH: This is the Word of God, or at
least it's the word of the prophets, which they say God
talks to them. And they're dead. They can't hurt us
u
nogmore. So, now it's just something we need to look
into. As for me, I delight to do thy will, O my God,
and this law is in my-heart. In Psalms 45, sure, I may
be a winner and no one can overthrow me, but what I
want to win is I want to win you. I want to win every
soul that can believe God. I want us all to be part of
the marriage of the lamb. Because I have preached
righteousness in the great congregation. Lo, I have
not retrained my lips, O Lord, though knowest. I have
not hid thy righteousness within my heart. I declared
22
thy faithfulness and thy salvation. Remember the
rainbow above his throne? Remember the seven seals?
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORBSH: I have not concealed thy
loving kindness and thy truth in the great
congregation. Withheld not thou thy tender mercies
from me, O Lord. Let thy loving kindness and thy truth
continually preserve me. For a innumeral phonetic!
evils have compassed me about. Mine inequities has
taken hold upon me and I'm not able to look up. There
is something I've never done, though, which I'll show
you what it is. They are more than the hairs of my
head, therefore my heart faileth me. You know, do you
miss your father?
JOHN COX: DO I?
DAVID RORESH: Yes.
'; JOHN COX: Yeah. Probably the, the older I
get, the more I miss him, but I'm fortunate he's still
alive. V
DAVID KORESH: Well, so is --
JOHN COX: But I --
DAVID KORESH: - mine.
JOHN COX: -- but I don't get to see him very
often.
DAVID RORESH: Exactly. So is mine.
JOHN COX: And it's kind of precious time,
' 23
isn't it? _
DAVID KORESH: Exactly. I've been 33 years
separated from him.
t JOHN COX: Well --
DAVID KORESH: Be pleased, O -- f
JOHN COX: - I don't know whose choice it
is, but what can I say?
DAVID KORESH: Well, it's, it's his choice
and my choice for the sake of the world. Be pleased, O
Lord, to deliver me. O Lord, make haste to help me.
Let them be ashamed and confounded together to seek
after my soul to destroy it. Let them be driven
backwards and put to shame that wish my evil -- wish me
evil. Let them be desolate for reward of their shame,
then say unto me, ahha, ah-ha. Do you know what
they're saying ah-ha, ah-ha for? They don't believe
I
I'm Christ, do they?
JOHN COX: NO.
DAVID KORESH: They will when they make me
into a carcass, though, won't they?
JOHN COX: Ho.
DAVID KORESH: Let all those that seek thee
rejoice and be glad in thee. Let such as love thy
salvation say continually: the Lord be magnified. But
I am poor and needy, yet the Lord thinketh upon me.
Thou art my help and my deliverer. Hake no tarrying on
24
my God. You know, my father is fixing to come and I
want you to know a little bit about him before he
comes. Now, in this Psalm, someone would say well,
now, wait a minute. Christ is not a sinner. Oh, but
wait a minute. There's a reason for this. You see,
you Gentiles, you don't keep the law. And that's
perfectly all right, because the law is quite
burdensome, I know that, especially to the flesh. But
when we look over here at Psalms 51 and we look at it a
little bit clearer, we will find, when it says have
mercifully sic!, 0 God, according to thy loving
kindness and according to the multitude of thy tender
mercies. We're not asking God to have mercy on us
according to his law, are we?
JOHN COX: Uhuh.
~ DAVID XORESH: Blot out my transgressions.
wash my thoroughly from my iniquity and cleanse me from
my sin. Why? For I acknowledge my transgressions and
my sin is ever before me. Well, there's a book here,
isn't there? And I have to bear sins of others, don't
I? Against thee and thee only have I sinned. Not
against man, but against God, and done this evil in my
sight. what evil? I've got to show you, don't I?
That thou mightest be justified when thou speakest.
Now, in the seven seals, God says something about his
son, which must be fulfilled after John's day. And be
O I
' . 25
clear when thou judgest. Even though this Christ may
have a sin, God has already judged him because God has
already given him the book. Right?
JOHN COX: Umhum.
DAVID KORESH: Behold, I was shapen in
iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive me. Now,
this is not Mary. This is the offspring. Remember,
I'm the root and offspring of David. Christ can be
born more than once, you know. Now, it says here I was
shapen in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive
me. See, I was born kind of illegitimately. My
mother, the one who's been on the radio? She was not a
good kind of girl, but I love her anyway. I don't care
what she's been.
JOHN COX: Umhum.
" DAVID KORESH: iBehold, thou desires truth in
the inner parts. In the hidden part, that's what I
know within me, thou will make me to know wisdom.
Purge me with hyssop and I shall be clean. Wash me and
I shall be whiter than snow. God can make me perfect
any time he wants, right? Hake me to hear joy and
gladness, that the bones which thou hast broken may
rejoice. Hide thy face from my sin and blot out my
iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God, and be
the right spirit within me. Cast not me away from my
presence and take away not the Holy Spirit from me. I
_92 |~
V 26
do have Holy Spirit, you know. Restore me to the joy
of thy salvation and put me with thy free spirit. Then
will I teach transgressions thy ways and the sinners
will be converted into thee. Deliver me from
bloodguiltiness, O God. Now, you know
bloodguiltiness is, don't you?
JOHN COX: Go ahead.what
DAVID KORESH: Some people lost their life
the other day, didn't they?
JOHN COX: Umhum.
O DAVID KORESH: Now, God of my salvation, and
my tongue shall sing a lot of thy righteousness. O
Lord, open up my lips and my mouth shall show forth thy
praise, for thy desire is not sacrifice. Remember
Psalms 40?
offerings. The sacrifice of God are a
brohen and contrite heart. O God, thy
despise. Do good in thy good pleasure
thou the walls of Jerusalem. RememberElse would I give it, at Elias and nonburnt
broken spirit, a
will not J
to Zion. Build
the promise? A
wall of fire round about Jerusalem? Then shall I be
pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with
burnt offerings - and the whole burnt offerings. Then
shall they offer bullets upon my altar. which this is
a very unique process. Oh, there's so
prophecies. Now, question. Before wemuch in the
get into the
real depth of the Psalms, which are the dialogue and
27
the prayers and the mind of Christ, we know that Christ
has this key of David and with it he opens and none can
shut, and with it he shuts and none can open. Well,
here's a key. In 56, this is what Robert was doing
recently, and I tried to share this with him. Be
merciful unto me, O God, for man would swallow me up.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER TO DAVID KORESH: Not
discernible!.
DAVID KORESH TO UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER TO DAVID KORESH: Not
discernible!.
DAVID KORESH T0 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay.
I'm, I'm talking with John right now.
{DAVID KORESH: Be merciful to me, O God, for
man would swallow me up. would they swallow me up? He
find and daily oppresseth me. My enemies, would they
beé- swallow me up? For they be men that fight
against me. Is that true?
JOHN COX: Hope note.
DAVID KORESH: O thou, my most high. Now,
what time I'm afraid I will trust in thee. In God I
will praise his word. I mean, in the word everything
is already said. In God I put my trust. I will not
fear what flesh can do unto me. I'm ready to come out
to you any time, because what's happening right now is
every day they wrest my words. They take my words out
of context, you know?
JOHN COX: Um-hum.28
DAVID KORESH: All their thoughts are against
me for evil. I know that. They gather themselves
together. They hide themselves. They mark my steps.~
They wait for my soul. Shall they escape by iniquity?
In thine anger cast down the people, O God. Thou
tellest my wonderings. I've done what I have been
commanded to do and I have fulfilled the word to the
letter. Put thou my tears to thy iplg. Are they not
in my book? You see, you got to understand about the
Word of God made flesh. You've got to understand about
Christ, that not only does he teach what he's doing,
but he's doing what he teaches. Now, when I cry unto
thee, then shall my enemies turn back. This I know.
For God is for me. You know, in that book, when Christ
comes, he's going to finish all the father's given him
to finish. In God will I praise his word. In the Lord
will I praise his word. In God
will not be afraid what man canhave I put my trust. I
do unto me. Thy vows
are upon me, O God. God has sworn and will not repent,
Psalms 110 says. I will render
thou is delivering my soul from
my feet from falling that I may
light of the living. I'm here,
JOHN COX: Um-hum.praises unto thee, for
death. Well, deliver
walk before God in the
John.
29
DAVID KORESH: Right in front of you. This
guy, this crazy guy at Mount
in the middle of Texas. Hey, in the book
tine. But, you know, if you want to know
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: -- then you have
doctrine. You have to know how I think.Carmel Center way out here
I cry all the
about me --
|
to know my
You have to
know why I think it. And like I told Robert, oh --
JOHN COX: It's not going to happen
overnight, huh?
DAVID KORESH: Well, I told --
JOHN COX: But I'm trying.
DAVID KORESH: I understand that. And I told
Robert that I would give him, you know, two weeks.
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
~ DAVID KORESH: And after two weeks a person
beéomes very like odd. Okay? But then I send them
out. As a matter of fact, there were some more people
coming back here before this stuff happened, you know,
and that way they're able to get out and they're able
to, you know, talk to other people, because it dazes
them. It really does. It really dazes them. Anyway,
you see, out there in front of our building there's a
flag. Have you, have you heard about that flag yet?
JOHN COX: Yeah. I haven't seen it. I've
heard about it.
30
DAVID KORESH: Okay. when Psalms 60 is
fulfilled, which is the same as Micah and the Habakkuk,
you know, the father is going to deliver us when we
can't handle it no more here.
JOHN COX: Um-hum. ,
DAVID KORESH: It says O God, thou hast cast
us off. Thou hast scattered us. Thou hast been
displeased. Turn thyself to us again. Thou hast made
the earth tremble. Thou hast broken it. So, the
indiscernible! shaken. Thou hast showed thy people
hard things. These seven seals are awesome. But wait
till you see the fulfillment of all of them in their
perfection. Thou hast made us to drink the wine of
astonishment. Now, remember the cup of Christ? We
partake sf that cup, we're partaking of his life,
aren't we? Right? -
.; JOHN COX: Umhum. .
I DAVID KORESH: And in the hand of God, there
is Christ. And thatfs why in Psalms 75 it says for in
the right hand of God there is a cup. The wine is red.
Now, the Word of God is the cup. Thou hast given a
banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed
because of the truth. Now, outside on this banner, on
this flag that's flying --
JOHN COX: UmhtI1I.
DAVID KORESH: The flag beloved may be
H 31
delivered, say with thy right hand hear me. Okay?
Now, God has spoken to indiscernible! I will rejoice.
I'm going to divide Shechem, measure the Valley of
Succoth, Gilead is mine, Hanasseh is mine. Ephraim is
the strength of my head. Juday is my load giver. Moab
is my wash. Upon Edom will I cast out my shoe. This
person is going to destroy all these heathen nations.
You understand that? Now, understand, all the heathen
are going to be brought into judgment. Now, these
heathen, though, are the descendants of what is -- or
will I say are the progenerators sic! of modern
Europe, which are also the forefathers of America.
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
:DAVID KORESH: Okay. Now, remember that the
in-sign is so that the beloved may be delivered because
of the truth. Right? '
Q JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: Now, let's find out what this
in-sign is. well, we.turn over to Isaiah 13. Remember
the rock according to the --
JOHN COX: Hang on. Hang on.
~ DAVID KORESR: Okay. Well, then, in the
second seal, Zechariah --
JOHN COX: Your fingers are --
DAVID KORESH: -- the red horse --
JOHN COX: Your fingers are faster than mine.
' 3 2
That's from the -- all that time on the guitar.
DAVID KORESH: Now, you should learn the
prophecies about that.
JOHN COX: I didn't get to hear it tonight
either, huh? You didn't play any of that music.to me
today.
DAVID KORESH: Yeah, we played some.
JOHN COX: Yeah, but not over this phone.
DAVID KORESH: No, not over the phone.
JOHN COX: Isaiah. Go ahead. Isaiah what?
DAVID KORESH: Isaiah, Chapter 13.
JOHN COX: Go ahead.
DAVID XORESH: The burden of Babylon. Now,
we don't want Babylon to be destroyed, do we?
JOHN cox: Uh-uh.
h DAVID KORESH: So, what Isaiah, the son of
Améz, did see. Lift ye up a banner. Remember Psalms
60?
JOHN cox: pm-hum.
DAVID KORESH: A banner is given to his
people that it might be displayed because of the truth.
There: a truth. Right? That thy beloved, which is
the lamb, may be delivered. Right? They have kept a
banner upon the high mountain. Exalt the voice unto
them. Now, what voice is above any of the voice in the
earth? who only can bring the knowledge of that book?
T
33
The lamb, right?
JOHh COX: Sure.
DAVID KORESH: Shake the hand. What's in the
hand? The book, right? You're supposed to put that
book up in front of them and you're supposed to,say
yea. That they may go into the gates of the nohles.
You see, all of us here are kings and priests. That's
the way it is where I come from. No garbage men that
do not wear crowns in my kingdom. God says I have
commanded my sanctified ones. when you come up hither
and you learn these seals, you'll be sanctified by the
Word of God. I've also called my mighty ones from mine
anger. Even then the rejoice in mine highest. Now, I
am so happy my God sits on a throne, aren't you?
¬JOHN COX: Sure.
DAVID KORESH: .It's amazing. He gave me a
book. Oh, John, come on up hither. Let me give you my
reward. My father says that I can give you my reward
if you let me show it to you. Everything that I've
received of my father, you may have also, and I want
you to have it, more than I want it. I don't want
things. All things are mine now. I don't want things.
I want you. That's the difference between me and a lot
of people. You, there's only one of you. There can
never be another. There's only one John, one soul.
And haven't you eaten enough of the tree of good and
I
34
evil? Don't you know the stuff don't work? Behold God
behold, John's become as one of us, knowing good and
evil. You know? But now what you don't know is how to
be able to be made perfect. Right?
JOHN COX: I'd sure like to know, huh?
DAVID KORESH: Okay. Well, I have that key.
JOHN COX: I just had a feeling that you did.
DAVID KORBSH: Well, remember, there°s a rock
with seven eyes?
JOHN COX: Yes.
DAVID KORESH: God will remove the iniquity
of indiscernible! in one day, won't he?
JOHN COX: Uh-huh.
DAVID KORBSH: He can cleanse. You know,
look. You may have done some things in your life
that's wrong, naughty, whatever. Hey, what'd you get
out of it? Nothing. It's gone. You may have hurt
people. People may have hurt you. You may have done
justice and justice. -Hey, God's fair to all. Now, the
noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a
great people. A tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of
nations gathered together. The Lord of Hosts muster at
the host of the battle. This is a war. Now, they come
from a far country. Do you know how far my army comes
from? Remember Revelation 19, armies of heaven?
JOHN COX: Umhum.
O O
' 3 5
DAVID KORESH: From the end of heaven, even
the Lord. And the weapons of his indignation. And
they're greater than class 3, John. To destroy the
whole land. Howl, ye, for the day of the Lord is at
hand. Right here in the book, John. Right now. He
shall come as the destruction from the Almighty.
Therefore, shall all hands be faint, ever man's heart
shall melt. They shall be afraid. Pain
indiscernible! shall take hold of them. They shall be
in pain as a woman at your hailiff phonetic!. They
shall be amazed one another. You know why? Because
those who are coming to take me home, their faces shall
be as flames. Behold the day of the Lord cometh.
Cruel, both of wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land
desolate.: And he shall destroy the sinners thereof out
of it. For the stars of heaven, John, and the
con?tellation thereof shall not give their light. The
sun shall be darkened in it's going forth and the moon
shall not cause her light to shine, and my father will
punish the world for their evil and the wicked for
their iniquity. Do you know what their evil and
iniquity was?
JOHN COX: What?
DAVID KORESH: They wouldn't listen to me
give them the seals. And I will cause the arrogancy of
the proud to cease and will lay low the haughtiness of
36
the terrible.. I mean, there's some terrible machinery
out here, some big guys, some big guns, at least, you
know, they think they're big. And I will make a man --
that's I8 -- more precious than fine gold. I want to
be friends. I want to be understood. Even a man of
the gold indiscernible! of Ophir. I mean, Ophir in
ancient Solomon's times used to produce some big pieces
of gold. But this guy is more valuable than gold.
He's got the seals. Therefore will I shake the heavens
and the earth and shall remove out of her place in the
wrath of the Lord of Hosts in the day of his fierce
anger. And it shall be as a chased roe. You know what
a little roe is, don't you? A little roe buck? A
little --, '
JOHN COX: Yeah.
DAVID KORESH: ~ dear? And as a sheep that
I
noinan taketh up. These poor people of the world are
not, not going to know what to do. They shall every
man turn to his own people and every one flee to his
own land. Every one that is found shall be thrust
through and every one that is joined to them shall fall
by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to
pieces before their eyes. Their houses shall be
spoiled and their wives ravished. Ooo. Put -- I will
stir up the Medea against them, which shall not regard
silverness or gold. They shall not delight in it.
37
Their bows shall bash the young men to pieces and they
shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb. Their
eyes shall not spare children. And Babylon, the glory
of kingdoms, will be to the Chaldea, shall be as when
God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. That never happened
yet. It's going to though, by discovering the feet,
the foundation unto the head. Like Habakkuk says. It
shall never be inhabited. Neither shall it be dwelt in
from generation to generation. Neither shall their
raven pitch a tent there. Neither shall the shepherds
make their fold there. But the wild beasts of the
desert shall lie there and the houses shall be full of
doleful creatures. Owls shall dwell there. The satyr
shall dance there. Remember barrels will become the
cage where fowl indiscernible! be with that? And the
wild beasts of the island shall cry in their dustful
I
houses and dragons and their pleasant place palaces and
her time is near to come and her days shall not be
prolonged. For the Lord shall have mercy on Jacob and
will yet choose Israel and set them in their own land.
And strangers shall be joined to them and they shall
cleave to the house of Jacob. And the people shall
take them and bring them to their place and the house
of Israel shall possess them in the land of Israel for
service and handmaids. And they shall take captives
whose captives they were and they shall rule over their
38
oppressors. Just what Zechariah said. It shall come
to pass in that day that the Lord shall give thee rest.
Hah, that'll be great. From thy sorrow and from thy
tear and from thy hard bondage, when thou was made to
serve. And thou shall takest this proverb against the
king of Babylon and say how has the oppressor ceased,
the golden city ceased. Remember the law you're
talking about?
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: .The Lord has broken the staff
of the wicked and the scepter of the rulers. Remember
those who rage in Psalms 2? Remember those that are
too strong for me in Psalms 18?
{JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: He who smote the people in
wrath and the -- with the continual stroke, he that
ruled the nations in anger is persecuted and
nonhindereth sic!. I mean, God's going to persecute
the big boys. The hoarth phonetic! is at rest and is
quiet. They break forth into singing. Even the fir
trees rejoice with thee and the cedars of Lebanon,
saying, says thou are laid down, the teller sic! has
come up against us. You see that there's going to be a
stop of all this cutting trees down? There's - well,
you'll tind out. Help from beneath is mood for thee to
meet thee at thy coming. It stirreth up all the dead
39
for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth. You
know, and Napoleon, Kaiser Wilhelm, Charlemagne,
Hitler, all these big guys that took big steps, you
know what I mean? '
JOHN COX: Umhum.
DAVID KORESH: They're going to be in
trouble. Yet their raised up from their thrones, all
the kings ot the nations. All they shall speak and say
unto thee. Let thou become weak as we or thou become
like unto us? Thy pomp is brought down to the grave
and the noise of thy vows. Do you know what the priest
does? You know he has those incense, the viles?
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
=DAVID KORESH: The worm is spread under thee
and the worms cover thee. Who is this mystery of
iniquity? It says the dragon gave him his power andI.
grace, seat, and authority, right? Remember Rome? You
know how those -- how religious the devil is? How art
thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer's son in the
morning. How art thou cut down to the ground, which is
the weak of the nations. You know, people shouldn't go
the devil's way to get wealth and riches, should they?
Because it all ends up as nothing. For thou will said
in my heart I will ascend into heaven. I will draw my
throne above the stars of God. I will sit also on the
mount of the congregation on the size of the north. I
40
will ascend above the heights of the clouds. I will be
like the most high. Yet thou shall be brought down to
hell to the sides of the pit. They that see these
shall never look upon thee and consider thee, saying is
this the nan that made the earth tremble, that did
shake the kingdoms? You know, Christ has come to this
world at least twice. I mean, if I'm true, Christ has
come at least twice in the flesh. Right?
JOHN COX: That's correct --
DAVID KORESH: If it --
JOHN COX: -- if what you said is correct.
DAVID KORESH: If it's - if what I'm saying
is true, if what I'm teaching you is true, then 2,000
years ago Christ can take a licking, right?
JOHN COX: Umhum.
" DAVID XORBSH: And I can take a licking now,
right? I mean, a vester dipped in blood, right?
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: Don't you think it's time for
Satan to be put in the flesh so that the world can take
a hold of him and do with him? Don't you think so?
V JOHN COX: God, I've seen a few of them. We,
we all have over the years, haven't we?
DAVID RORESH: But I mean really Lucifer.
JOHN COX: Well --
DAVID XORESH: Now, he made the world a
41
wilderness and destroyed the cities thereof. You know,
Lucifer doesn't open the house of his prisoners? All
the kings and the nations, even all of them will lie in
glory, every one in his own house. That's his grave.
But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable
branch. And as the raiment of those that are slain,
thrust through with the sword, they go down to the
stones of the pit and the carcass trodden underfoot.
Thou will not be joined with them in burial because
thou has destroyed thy land and slain thy people. The
seat of evildoers shall never be renowned. Prepare a
slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their
fathers, that they do not rise nor possess the land nor
fill the face of the world with cities. For I will
raise against them, sayeth the Lord ot Hosts, and cut
off from Babylon the name, the remnant, the son, the
I
nephew, sayeth the Lord. And I will make it a
possession for the bittern and pools of water and I
will sweep with the not discernible! and destruction
sayeth the Lord of Hosts. The Lord of Hosts has sworn,
saying surely thy thought, so as within the past. And
as I propose -- now, watch this -- so shall it stand.
That I will break the Assyrian in my land. See, this
land that you're, that you're on right now is God's
land. And upon my mountain tread them underfoot. Then
shall his yoke depart from oft them and his burden
42
depart from ott their shoulder. Now, this is the
purpose that's proposed upon the whole earth.
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
DAVID XORESH: Right? God's going to remove
all the wicked nations, isn't he? And this is the hand
which is the book, the seven seals, that is stretched
out upon all the nations. For the Lord of Hosts has
proposed, and who shall disannul sic! it. And his
hand is stretched out and who shall turn it back. Now,
in the year that King Ahaz died was this burden. Okay.
So, Isaiah the prophet, when Ahaz died, the king of
Judea, he had this vision, and then the Philistines
started laughing. But Isaiah writes rejoice not thou
whole Palistinia, for the rod of him that smote thee is
broken. For out of the serpent's root shall come forth
a cockatrice phonetic!.' Remember Christ is a snake,
I
isnlt he? Isn't Christ a serpent?
JOHN COX: Christ? The snake?
DAVID KORESH: Yeah --
JOHN COX: You've got the wrong person.
DAVID KORESH: Nuh-uh.
JOHN COX: Yeah.
DAVID KORESH: No. when Hoses took his rod
into Egypt, he laid --
JOHN COX: Uh-huh.
DAVID KORESH: -- it down and it became a
43
what? A serpent. And it ate up Egypt's serpents,
right? Right. when Christ was fixing to be crucified,
he said as Hoses lifted up the serpent in the
wilderness --
JOHN COX: Umhum. T
DAVID KORBSH: -- so also if I be lifted up I
will draw all men into me. So, in the wilderness
Israel would not listen to Hoses, and so God sent
snakes to bite them. But Hoses made a brazen serpent
and all that looked upon it were healed. That's why
today the serpent is used in the medical field as a
sign, looking to the brazen serpent, right?
JOHN COX: Um-hum.
= DAVID KORESH: So, Christ is also sneaky too,
isn't he?
JOHN COX: Okay.
3 navzn xoassx-1: So, this serpent is Christ,
and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
JOHN COX: ~Um-hum.
DAVID KORESH: Fiery flying serpent. Fiery
fly- well, if you look out on our in-sign, you know
there's a banner God's given to his people that it may
be displayed because of the truth that his beloved may
be delivered, right? And an in-sign.
[end of tape 76]
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAUEOF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPE #77
March 7, 1993
2:05 a.m. 2:52 a.m.
92
2
Tape 77! _
DAVID: serpent shall slay thy remnant
indiscernible! cry, oh city. Thou whole
indiscernible! are dissolved. For there shall come
from the North, that's where Orion is, a smoke, that's
the Mukkeveh. And none shall be alone in his appointed
time. What shall one then answer the messengers of the
nation? That the Lord has founded what? Zion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Right.
DAVID: And the indiscernible! people shall
what? Trust in it. Now, I realize that there is a lot
of stuff that we read that you don't have a proper
picture of. I agree with you. But that's why that
this time instead of arguing with a bunch of Sanhedrim
and Pharisees God has made it simple to where we have
to ask seven honest questions. Can the first seal be
foupd in the Psalms, such as Psalms 45? Yes, it can
be. So therefore the complement is is that in
Revelation 19 we know that the white horse, he that
sits upon, it has the armies of heaven backing him. We
also know the marriage of the Lamb is what draws the
spirits of men to the spirit of God. When the spirit
in you, the spirit of life, is in agreement with the
spirit of God, the spirit of life in God is in harmony,
then the marriage begins to take place having the
knowledge of God which is given to you through Christ.
3
Okay. Now, can the second seal be found in Zechariah?
Is there such a subject of a white horse, pale horse?
Huh? Is there such a subject of the white horse, red
horse? Sure there is. Now, you know as well as I do
that when these truths are being made known the heathen
will be at ease won't they? Yawning sound! Kind of
indiscernible! neither hot nor cold, kind of
indifferent. God says he's sort of displeased with
people of that attitude isn't he? But we know that
Zechariah continues to say that we're looking for
glory and God is going to herd his portion to the
of Judah and there is a rock with seven eyes, you
bet your britches on it, and God will remove your
inequities if you're interested, there is a light
all lights, a candle with seven lamps thereon and
witnesses, Hoses andthe
land
can
above
two
Elijah, and who would dare want to
find themselves fighting against Moses and Elijah? But
nonetheless we know that this scroll, this truth,
be misrepresented and be used for slanderous gain
those who love filthy lucre. Although it'll bewill
by
worthless they'll just be trying to be using the Bible
to build them a church in the land of Shinar, in the
land of Babylon, right? Okay. Now, the third seal.
Although we do not have a complete understanding of the
whereabouts or the direction of these first two seals,
the first thing to attract your interest - to make
4
sure that I'm no different than anybody else, you know
what I mean -- is that where is the third seal found?
Shall I give you some time to work on that one? I
mean, I've already given you two hints, right?
JOHN: Black horse? The rider?
DAVID: Yeah. Where is that found at?
Remember, it's not found in the second seal.
JOHN: Go ahead.
DAVID: Well, would you like me to give you a
little bit of time to call up some guys around there
and have some guys grab some Bibles or call a few
priests and -- you know, give them an honest chance,
John, I mean, you know. I, I would do anything for
anyone to have a chance to, to, to know these things.
I mean, the Bible's here. I mean, it's been around a
long time hasn't it?
* JOHN: Um-hum.
s DAVID: And I'm not going to condemn anybody
because they don't know it. I mean, I knew 2,000 years
ago that they wouldn't know these things. God said so.
And it may be true, it may be true, but let me tell you
how I judge, all right? Let, let's take a look at the
JOHN: I'll tell you, David, it's, it's a
shame what happened happened, because you can be very
persuasive.
DAVID: Well, you
persuade us and that's what5
see, the truth will
I want. I don't want no
glory for myself because this is no glory for me. I've
seen greater things. I've been greater things. Right
now I'm just a human being,
have the 33 years this time
I touched and I understand,
righteousness, because as I
are, so am I. We are equal
establish equity. Now, you
could never be like Christ,you know. And that's why I
I've seen and I've felt and
and this is my
am so are you, and as you
now. In Psalm 17, God doth
in your power and strength
but do you know that Christ
can become like you? Yes, he can._ And who will dare
say that God is breaking his law? God's got one law,
he is the law, his word is law. Now, the problem is
that sin does exist and only God can deliver us from
the sin. He that sinneth is a servant of sin and the
F
sinner abides not in the house forever. But the son
abides forever, the son can never perish. Now, if the
son makes you free you shall be free indeed. Now,
that's what we're working on. We're trying to get you
tree from the law. We're trying to get you free from
the law so that the law of God doesn't judge you, just
the law of love. And how do we love someone? But when
we understand someone. That's where we're at so far,
trying to understand someone. Okay.
JOHN: Well, we both are aren't we?
DAVID: Exactly. I mean I already understand
JOHN: Well --
DAVID: - I already understand things that
if I said I did you'd say you don't understand. ,But I
want you to understand
JOHN: Well,
understand.me.
it may be difficult for me to
DAVID: Well, yeah, the circumstances of the
situation is definitely difficult, I understand.
JOHN: sure, SUIE .
DAVID: Okay, but we know that --
JOHN: Let me, let me ask you, you know, and
I mentioned it to you before and, and of course before
we had that little break before. Are you at all
interested in replying
andéthe misconceptions
so, could something be
DAVID: Wellto the things that you've heard
that you've heard and, and if
worked out?
JOHN: And, and I'm, I'm saying -- you, you
know what I threw out before, but I mean, something
reasonable worked out, whether you feel that that's
unreasonable or whether you don't? If you'd like to
make a, a statement, if you'd like to make a comment,
we can work on it, you know.
DAVID: Well, remember, John, and like I said
I
92
7
before, you know, one of the main points that I am
presenting to my Father is that thus far as it has been
you all have not made any aggressive moves against us.
JOHN: And we will not.
' DAVID: Well, let me, let me explain .
something now.
JOHN: We may have made some foolhardy moves
or some, you know, some, some unusual moves and, and
there are some things that we're, we're going to check
into that were raised earlier this evening that, that
none of us were really aware of here, you know?
mm. But I'm aware of that too, and
I --
_JOHN: And, and maybe you'd call them crude
more than anything else, some of them.
*' DAVID: Kind of, kind of -- you talking about
thegyoung men mooning the ~-
JOHN: Yeah, yeah.
DAVID: Yeah,
JOHN: Well, you know what I'm talking about.
DAVID: Yeah. Well, they don't understand
what we're talking about though.
JOHN: I don't think so.
DAVID: So we don't, we don't -- we just sort
of wink at that.
JOHN: But, you know, you, you probably don't
I
8
understand the federal judicial process either.
DAVID: Well, sure I do.
JOHN: You may understand the state judicial
procedure but mayhe not the federal judicial procedure
other than what you see in movies and TV and things of
that nature.
DAVID: Well, like I say, my, my knowledge
and understanding has a resource and an ability to, to
span lots of history real fast in just a moment, but --
JOHN: And you don't understand everything
that we have to address out here, you know? It's not
just a, a very simple situation
you're --
DAVID: Very complex.
JOHN: when you'reout here. When
dealing with a lot of
different - not only a lot of different individuals
andfiand personalities, but different agencies and, and
you're dealing not with just Waco, Texas, you're
dealing with Washington, D.C. and you're dealing with
other areas. It's not as simple as it may
mean, you and I may, may have our dialogue
rapport between one another and it, and it
white and white is - and black and black,
that easy in, in other aspects of this.
DAVID: Well, that's true, I agree with you
JOHN: And --appear. I
and our
you know,
but it's not
9
DAVID: But we just want to make sure that
we're getting a chance to learn these seals. That's,
that's you, John. This is personal. If.I could just
save one more person, I'd die for that person. You got
to understand that about me. I
JOHN: Well, you, you said about a half hour
ago that you're ready to come out any time didn't you?
DAVID: That's what I said.
JOHN: Well, you also --
DAVID: I --
JOHN: - said that you're the Lord didn't
you?
DAVID: What I said was -- does God sit on a
throne, John?
:JOHN: I'm sorry?
DAVID: Does God sit on a throne?
A; JOHN: Oh, sure, we've crossed that.
7 DAVID: Okay. It's true that 1 am the
Christ, that's true, but you don't know that.
JOHN: Well, you said you are the Lord.
DAVID: Well, I am the Lord as an
indiscernible! which is a title --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- of just position.
JOHN: Uhhuh.
DAVID: But it's better to be called the son.
10
I'm just the son --
JOHN: Well, it's kind --
DAVID: -- I'm the son of God.
JOHN: -- it's kind of difficult to hear the
word from someone if you're not the son isn't it?
DAVID: I -- my Father gave me a book and --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- I'm showing it to you --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- from your copy. Make sense?
JOHN: Well --
DAVID: This is the last test to the world.
Because you see, I do not receive honor from men. If
the whole world was to honor me, the world as of yet
has not received honor.
~ JOHN: Um-hum.
1; DAVID: When God gives the world honor, the
honor that heaven receives, then God will be honored in
God's own self. when it pleases the Lord to be able to
give glory back to this world, then the world which is
of God will be glorified and God will receive glory.
JOB: You didn't answer me, David.
DAVID: Well, yes, I did.
JOHN: when I said you said that you were the
Lord and you said not only that you were the Lord but
that you were Christ and that someone has to give you
ll
this word. And who is that someone that's going to
give you the word if you are the Lord and you are the
Christ, if are you the redeemer and you are the savior?
DAVID: And you are the what, the Rome?
JOHN: Me? I'm just one of the chosen
waiting to hear the word, right?
DAVID: Well, you're listening now aren't
you?
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: You're listening now aren't you?
JOHN: I've been listening to you all
evening.
DAVID: Are you learning though?
:JOHN: Well, let's just say I'm -- I am
learning a lot more than I ever had before, right?
Can't»help but learn.
DAVID: That's true isn't it?
JOHN: I'm learning something different.
DAVID: Exactly. It's different. It's new.
It's not from the beginning.
JOHN: And what you are telling me tells me
that you can make the decision and you can make the
decision whenever you want to. You know, I, I'm --
DAVID: That is - look, look --
JOHN: -- I'm learning a total, new
perception.
12
DAVID: Hello? No, let's go over
the --
JOHN: Some --
DAVID: -- let's go over the Gospel of John
real quick. f
JOHN: -- somebody must be stepping --
DAVID: Let's --
JOHN: -- must be stepping on something on
your end.
DAVID: Now, let's go back to John real
quick. Matthew, Hark, Luke and John?
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: Let's get some facts laid down here.
JOHN: Some what?
DAVID: Some facts. This is found in John
Chapter 5. This is -- we're looking back to make sure
that I haven't changed to a large degree. I mean, if I
have sinned against God that God may be righteous when
he speaks and God has already foretold I would do this,
right? Do something about something to do with sin.
JOHN: Where are you?
DAVID: I mean, you can't -- we're in John
Chapter 5 --
JOHN: Go ahead, David.
DAVID: -- Matthew, Hark, Luke and John.
JOHN: Go ahead.
13
DAVID: -- and we're at verses, verses 19,
okay?
JOHN: Go ahead.
DAVID: Well, let's just, just start --let's
start verse 18. Therefore the Jews sought to more to
kill him, right? Are you there?
JOHN: Yeah, that's got to be somebody
walking on that wire on your end over there.
DAVID: Okay. Because he, he had not only
had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his
what?
JOHN: Father.
DAVID: Making himself equal with God.
:JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: And Jesus said unto them, verily,
verily I say unto you the son can do nothing of
himself. How much?
JOHN: Nothing.
DAVID: Butlwhat he seeth the Father do.
JOHN: Umhum.
DAVID: For what thing so ever he doeth these
also doeth the son likewise.
JOH: Um-hum.
DAVID: For the Father loveth the son and
showeth him all things that himself doeth. Now, He
will show him greater works than these that you
14
may what? Marvel. Do you know what the seven seals
are? They're made to make you marvel. For as the
Father raises up the dead and quickeneth them even so
the son of man quickeneth whom he will. The Father
judges how many? No man. But has committed all
judgment to the who?
JOHN: The son.
DAVID: That all men should honor the son
even as they honor who?
JOHN: The Father.
DAVID: He that honoreth not the son honoreth
not the Father which hath sent him. Okay. Verily,
verily I say unto you, he that heareth my word and
believeth on him that sent me -- remember whose word
it is? It's God's isn't it?
JOHN: - hath everlasting life and shall1. I
notfcome into condemnation but is passed from death
into life. verily, verily I say unto you the hour is
some and it now is. When the dead shall hear the voice
of the son of God andwthey that hear shall live. For
the Father hath life in himself, so has he given to the
son to have life in himself. And hath given him
authority to execute judgment also because he is the
son of man. Marvel not at this for the hour is coming
and which all that are in the grave shall hear his
voice and shall come forth. They that have done good
unto
evil
self
just15
the resurrection of life and they that have done
to the resurrection of damnation. I can of my own
do nothing. As I hear, I judge and my judgment is
because I seek not my own will but the will of the
Father which has sent me. If I bear witness to myself,
yeah, John, I'm Christ, my witness is not true. There
is another that bears witness of me though and I know
thatthe witness which he witness of me is true. Do
you know who that is?
bear
fromJOHN: Who?
DAVID: The Father. Ye sent unto John and he
witness unto the truth but I receive not testimony
man. But these things I say that you might be
saved. John was a burning and a shining light and you
were willing for a season to rejoice in this light.
But I have greater witness than that of John. For the
works which the Father has given me to finish, the same
works that I do bear witness of me, that the Father has
sent me and the Father himself which has sent me he
hathborn witness of me. That's in the book. Do you
know what my job is? To teach you the seven seals. Do
you know what the seven seals teach? It teaches who I
am.
timeJOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: You've neither heard his voice at any
nor seen his shape and you have not his word
16
abiding in you, John. For whom he has sent him ye
believe not. Search the scriptures, John, for in them
you think you have eternal life, right?
JOHN: I know I do.
DAVID: And they are they which testify of
who? Me. But you will not come to me that you might
have life. John, I receive not honor from man. But I
know you that you have not the love of God in you. I
am come in my Father's name and it's a new name,
remember, and you receive me not. If another come in
his own name, a priest, a pastor, him you will receive.
How can you believe, John, which receive honor one of
another and seek not the honor that cometh from God
only? Do not think that I will accuse you to the
Father. Now, there is one that accused you, even Hoses
in whom you trust, but had you believed Noses you would
have believed me for he wrote of me. It's found in
~¢>
Deuteronomy 32. As ye believed not his writings, how
should ye believe my words? Now, that's not it. Let's
just keep going. Okay. Over here in Chapter 6 Christ
is confronted again and he states in Verse 29, Jesus
answered and said unto them, This is the work of God,
that ye believe on him whom he hath, what?
JOHN: Sent
DAVID: Sent, okay. He says in Verse 35, I
am the bread of life; he that cometh to me shall never
17
hunger; he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
But I said to you, That ye also have seen and believe
not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me;
and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
I came down from where? Heaven.
JOHN: Heaven.
DAVID: Not to do my own will, but the will
of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will
which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me
I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at
the last day. And this is the will of him that sent
me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth
on him, may have everlasting life: and I raise him up
at the last day. Huh. What does that mean?
JOHN: Means that you will have everlasting
life. "Everyone will, right?
I
'3 DAVID: Yup. Now, we look at Chapter 7, in
Verse 16. Jesus answered them and says, My doctrine is
not mine but his that.v what? Sent me, right?
JOHN: Umhum. Go ahead.
DAVID: I come in indiscernible! of the
book. Remember Psalm 40? Who wrote the book? My
Father wrote the book. who did he give the book to?
He gave it to me. See, I didn't write the book. Hy
Father wrote the book. Only I know the book because my
Father wrote the book. That's why no one in the world
18
knows the book like I do. It's my Father's book.
They've made a lot of money off of it but they don't
know what it's talking about. But it's my book. It's
about me anyway. If any man will do his will he shall
know the doctrine whether it be of God or whether I
speak of myself. Hey, is Psalm 45 of God or is it of
me? Did I write that in there, John? Hey, Zachariah,
the second seal. Did Zachariah write that? Is that
God's word or did I put that in the book? Now, he that
speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory. Now, when a
person tells you, now the first seal in Revelation is
very symbolic. We understand that Christ is a king.
The bow represents his word of God and the horse
symbolizes the purity of the church. We know the
Christian Church went forth conquering, conquering with
the spirit of truth. Now, notice the man on the red
horse is a symbol of martyrdom. Blood is definitely
redi And the sword killing one another was definitely
a picture of the wicked slaying the righteous in the
time of the martyrdom. Now, baloney. That's not what
the prophets teach is it, John? No. Those people are
seeking their own glory, aren't they? I bet you
they're going to pass the plate after they give you
their opinion aren't they? Now, I'm speaking my
Father's words. He showed them to me, he gave them to
me. I've already gotten my glory. I'm going to go
19
back to it and_take my real glory back with me those
who believe in the truth. But he that seeketh his
glory, that sent him, the same is true, and no
unrighteousness is in him. Did not Moses give you the
law and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why ye go
about to kill me? Huh. Verse, Verse 21. Jesus said,
I have done one work , and ye all marvel. Moses
therefore gave unto you circumcision; not because it
is of Hoses, but of the fathers;! - Abraham, Isaac
and Jacob. And ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
You know how the Jews were about the sabbath day,
right? If a man on the sabbath day receive
circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be
broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man
every whit whole on the sabbath day? Judge not
according to the appearance, but judge righteous
judgment. Now, what would be the righteous judgment
they were supposed to judge? Well, Isaiah 58, the
prophet had already said, you know, that the sabbath
day is the day to heal the sick, to feed the hungry, to
relieve the oppressed indiscernible! the fatherless.
It's over here in Chapter 8, Verses 43 is a lesson that
I want you to learn real quick, John. It's a question
I'm asking you today. It was asked before but I'm
asking today: Why do you not understand my speech?
Even because you cannot hear my word. why? Are you of
20
your father the devil, and the feelings of your father
will ye not do. Hey, you know, he was a murderer from
the beginning, you know. He abode not in the truth of
God, right, because there's no truth in him. When he
speaks a lie is he speaking of his own; is he a liar
and the father of it. Because I tell you the
truth that God gave me a book and there are seven seals
and I'm trying to show it to him, is that why you don't
believe me? Now, which of you convinceth me of sin?
And if I say the truth, why ye not believe in me? He
that is of God hears what, John?
JOHN: God's words. y
DAVID: God's words. Ye therefore hear them
not because you're not of who?
JOHN: God.
'- DAVID: Now, we don't really want that, do
we,§John? Because we know over here in Chapters 9,
Verses 39, For judgment I am come into this world, that
they which see not might what? see. And they which
see might be made what?
JOHN: Blind.
DAVID: Blind. Okay. And some of the
Pharisees which were with - when they heard these
words they said, are we blind also? He says, Now, if
ye were blind, ye should not have any sin. In other
words, you wouldn't be guilty. But now you say, we
see,21
therefore your sin remaineth. You know, there is
a straight door in Chapter 10. Come up here that's the
door
whatof heaven and learn these seven seals. This is
the whole New Testament is all about. Okay? Now,
one last little verse here. Okay. I guess Chapter 10,
Verse 25 will be all right. Now -- Verse 24. There
came
longthe jews round about him, and said to him, how
dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the
Christ, tell us plainly. That's what I get told all
the time. Well, are you Christ or not Christ, you the
Lamb
Y°u|
Father's name, they bear witness of me.
to reveal the seven seals today, right?or what are you, huh? And Jesus answered, I told
and you believe not the works that I do in my
I'm supposed
Back then we
did miracles and all that kind of stuff. But ye
believe not, because you're not of my sheep, as I said
1
untq
they
they
themyou. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and
follow me and I give unto them eternal life and
shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck
out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is
greater than all and no man is able to pluck them out
of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. He
wrote it, he wrote the word. I am the word, the word
is given to the people who are of the word, you know?
So anyway, it says right here, that the Jews took up
stones again to stone him. Man, they didn't believe in
I O
22
Christ in those days did they? Jesus answered them,
many good works have I showed you from my Father right
out of. For which of those works do ye stone me? The
Jews answered saying, not for a good work we stone
thee, but for blasphemy and because thou, being a man,
makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, is it not
written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? It's taken
from Psalms 83, you know? If he called them gods and
to whom the word of God came and the scripture cannot
be broken, you know, say of him, whom the Father hath
sanctified and sent into the world thou blasphemest
because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not the
works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do,
though ye believe not me, believe the works that ye may
know, and believe, that the Father is in me and I in
him. Is this making this stuff a little bit plainer
¢.
now? Today there's only one sign to be given to this
oldéworld, John, you see? There's only one miracle.
You want a miracle, John? You want me to do a miracle
for you? "W
JOHN: Sure.
DAVID: Okay. Turn on the TV.
JOHN: It's not very easy where I'm sitting.
DAVID: Okay. Well, then turn on the radio.
JOHN: I don't, I don't have any of that kind
of stuff here.
O O
23
DAVID: Well, talk to me on the telephone.
JOHN: I'm talking.
DAVID: All right. Isn't it a miracle?
JOHN: The fact that I can talk to you on the
telephone is a miracle? f
DAVID: Well, the fact that in Daniel,
Chapter 11 and 12 it's already been foretold the
miracle that'll take place.
JOHN: It might be remarkable, it might be
amazing, you know, and it may be technology, but I
wouldn't say it's a miracle.
DAVID: Well, now remember today's
inspiration becomes tomorrow's common knowledge.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: In other words, when you go home with
me if you so decide to --
Q JOHN: I'd rather have you come home with me.
DAVID: well, no, I'm here already. I've
been here quite a while, John.
JOHN: Go ahead, David. Go ahead.
DAVID: Oh, John, I wish you --
JOHN: Go ahead.
DAVID: All right. For instance, okay,
let's, let's, let's take a look over here now, in
Daniel 2:44 --
JOHN: Uh-huh. Hang on. Daniel 2. Go
24
ahead.
DAVID: Verse 44.
JOHN: Go ahead.
DAVID: And in the days of these
kings - what's going to happen? Shall the God of
heaven set up a what?
JOHN: Kingdom.
DAVID: which shall what?
JOHN: Never be destroyed.
DAVID: Do you think weFve close to that
time?
JOHN: I think God has established a kingdom
long ago that shall never been destroyed.
DAVID: Exactly, but it's going to --
1JOHN: Don't you?
.. DAVID: -- it's going to come and destroy
this kingdom on earth. It's going to give your system
unless your repent --
JOHN: Our system.
DAVID: Well, your system. It's my system in
the respect that I'm going to rule over it.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: It's a good system. Remember, your
system is based upon my Father's law.
JOHN: Remember, it's the best system we got.
DAVID: In the world, yes, I commend you for
25
that. Why has God blessed you so greatly? I commend
you for that. Yes.
JOHN: I, I appreciate your commending me.
DAVID: But the thing is this, there is
corruption in it. Now -- f
JOHN: Well, there aren't many that there --
that you won't find some place, huh?
DAVID: I know, but we should --
JOHN: And most of that's because of greed.
DAVID: Exactly, exactly.
JOHN: Because people are human.
DAVID: Yes, they are, and they don't believe
in Christ.
{JOHN: Well, many do.
DAVID: Okay.
JOHN: But they -- they're twofaced about
it .1»;
' DAVID: Okay. I agree. Now, so, when we
look over here to Chapter 7, we're going to find out
again what's happening right now. .
JOHN: Hang on. Hang on. Go ahead.
DAVID: In the first year of Belshazzar king
of Babylon Daniel had dreams and a vision of his head
upon his bed. He wrote the dream and told the sum of
the matters. I, Daniel, speak and said I saw in my
vision and by night, behold the four winds of the
O O
_ 26
heaven strove upon the great sea. You know, big old
wind, right? And four beasts, great beasts, came up
from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was
like a lion and it had eagle's wings. I beheld till
the
the
and
gotwings thereof were plucked, it was lifted up from
earth, and made to stand upon the feet as a man,
a man's heart was given to it. The beast kind of
tamed didn't it?
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: And behold, another beast, a second,
like a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, it
hadthree ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of
it and they said thus unto the bear, arise, devour much
flesh. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a
leopard,
fowl and
givén to
behold awhich had upon the back of it four wings of a
the beast had also four heads and dominion was
it. After this I saw in the night visions,
fourth beast. Dreadful, John, and terrible.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: And strong exceedingly. It had great
iron teeth. It devoured and brake in pieces, and
stamped the residue, which was the other beast, with
thefeet of it and it was diverse from all the beasts
that were before it and it had ten horns. Remember
Revelation 12, the devil's kingdom? I considered the
horns, and, behold, there came up among them another
I
27
little horn, before whom there were three of the first
horns plucked up by the roots. That leaves eight,
doesn't it? Ten plus one, 11, minus three is eight.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: And, behold, in this horn were eyes
like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great
things. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? I beheld the this,
this horn with eyes of a man and great things, blah,
blah, blah - till the thrones were cast down. Uh-oh.
And then who sits? The Ancient of days did sit, right?
JOHN: Umhum.
DAVID: Whose garment was white as snow.
This was my pop, John. And the hair of his head like
the pure wool, his throne like a firey flame. It's
called a Hukkeveh. It's awesome, man, makes my whole
4
heayens shake. And his wheels as burning fire. John,
do you believe in spacemen?
JOHN: Do I believe in what?
DAVID: Spacemen. Beings --
JOHN: Not hardly.
DAVID: -- beings from other worlds.
JOHN: No.
DAVID: You don't?
JOHN: NO.
DAVID: How come you don°t believe in God
28
then?
JOHN: How come what?
DAVID: How come you don't believe in God?
JOHN: Well, I thought we were pretty clear
that I do? _
DAVID: Okay. Well, you believe in spacemen
then. .
JOHN: Well, that's not what I would address
God, as a spaceman, nor would I address him as pop
either, would I?
DAVID: Well, he's my pop.
JOHN: But you really shouldn't address him
that way either should you?
DAVID: Yes, I will, and I do because I know
him. g
JOHN: All due respect.
.j DAVID: Hey, with due respect, he knows me
andil know him. Now, you want to learn this or not?
JOHN: I'm working at it.
DAVID: Okay. Now, this fourth beast is
Rome. It devoured Babylon, you know, Persia and
Gracia. It's called dreadful and terrible and strong
exceedingly. Out of this kingdom emerged a small
kingdom. It's known as the Vatican and it had a big
mouth and it had eyes like a man and it talked it
thoughts and it talked its own visions. John sees --
29
or Daniel sees that this power will last until the end
of time, until the Father comes, the Ancient of days.
He drives on a Mukkeveh, his wheels as burning fire.
It's a vehicle. It's a awesome vehicle. I know what
I'm talking about. A firey stream issued and came from
before him. Just like Psalm 18 said, he burns up my
enemies and he hits each individual one after one.
There can be 1,000 people huddled together in a
clump and if he, he wants one person out, he'll
them dead-eyed. We're talking about technology
We're not talking about no ancient artifacts orbig
hit
now.
some
ancient kingdom with a little cart and horse wheels on
it. We're talking about people trying to explain from
ancient times things that now hopefully you can
understand. Technology, my friend, technology. The
heavens are higher than the earth. Now, thousands,
I
thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times
ten thousand stood before him and the judgment was set
and the books were opened. Do you know which books
will be opened in this judgment?
JOHN: Well, I can venture a good guess.
DAVID: The prophesies.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: Now, what happens to those who have
listened to the words of men and they have denied the
revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave unto him?
30
Well, let's show you. I beheld then because of the
voice of the great words which the horn spake. Uh-huh,
this guy here he thought he was something didn't he? I
beheld even till the beast was slain and his body
destroyed, and given to the burning flame. He's going
to hell, isn't he?
JOHN: Umhum.
DAVID: And all those who followed him are
going to hell. Hell. As concerning the rest of the
beast though, they had their dominion taken away yet
their lives were prolonged for 15 months. A season is
four months, you know --
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: - and a time is a year. And I saw
in the night visions the reason why. Behold, one like
the son of man. You'll, you'll know this
quyé» Came with the clouds of heaven. That's§what John
promises. And came to the Ancient of days and they
brought him near before him. And there was given him
dominion, glory, a kingdom, that all people, nations
and languages should serve him. His dominion is an
everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and
his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. I want
you to be a part of this kingdom. Now, Daniel was
grieved in his spirit in the midst of his body, and the
visions of his head troubled him. So he came near to
31
the one of them that stood by, one of the angels, and
asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and
made me know the interpretation of these things. These
great beasts, which are four, are four kings which
shall arise out of the earth. But that's all right
indiscernible! that's all right. But the saints of
the most high shall take the kingdom and possess the
kingdom even for ever, even ever and ever. Then I
would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was
diverse from all the others, exceedingly dreadful,
whose teeth were of iron, his nails of brass which
devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with
his feet. Even of the ten horns that were in his head,
and of the other which came up, and before whom three
fell, even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that
spakevery great things, whose look was more stout than
O
hisgfellows. Very royal, very pius. I beheld, and the
same horn made war with the saints - ah - and
prevailed against them. Help! Help! Help! Until
who? My Father comes. And judgment, which is his
judgment, the seven seals, Psalm 18, was given to the
saints of the most high and the time came that the
saints possessed the kingdom which takes place during
the time of the feat. Thus he said, the fourth beast
shall be the fourth kingdom upon the earth, which shall
be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the
32
whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in
pieces. Okay. Now, the ten horns out of this kingdom
are ten kings which shall arise. Now, shall arise
after them and he shall be diverse from the first and
he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great
words against the most High, and he shall wear out the
saints of the most High, and think to change times and
laws. What times and laws do you think he changes?
Well, then there's time no longer, but mysteries to be
finished, the seven seals. And of course when the Lamb
comes, I bet you there'l1 be voices saying, no, it's
not time. But of course, these times, it says in the
Psalms about Messiah, it says, Father, my times are in
thy hand.= Naturally, the times of which he opens the
seal, each seal has an appointed time. See, we're in
the fifth seal right now, you know? We're fixing to
enter the sixth seal. So many stars are going to be
darkened, you know, the Father's going to come and
settle up my controversy here. What laws? God's laws.
And --
JOHN: How long will it take to go from the
fifth to the sixth seal?
DAVID: Well, you're fixing to see. If I
told you, you wouldn't believe me and --
JOHN: Why?
DAVID: Because I don't tell you, I just try
F
>
to show you out of the book.
JOHN: Yeah.33
DAVID: And they shall be given into his hand
until a time and times and the
is a key according to the markdividing of time, which
of the beast, 6661 But
the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his
dominion, to consume and to destroy it even unto the
end. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness
of the kingdom under the whole
to the people of the saints ofheaven, shall be given
the most High. That's
our Father who sits on the throne. Whose kingdom is an
everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and
obey him. Hitherto is the end
me Daniel, my cogitations much
countenance changed in me, but
heart. Now, here's the second
Chapter 8, Verse 2 says, I saw
to pass, when
palace, which
vision, and I was by the river
up mine eyes,of the matter. As for
troubled me, and my
I kept the matter in my
way it's revealed.
in a vision and it came
I saw, that I was at Shushan in the
is in the province of Elam and I saw in a
of Ulai. Then I lifted
and saw, and, behold, there stood before
me the river a ram which had two horns. The two
horns were high but one was higher than the other, and
the higher came up last. I saw the ram pushing
westward, northward, southward
stand before him. Neither wasso that no beast might
there any that could
34
deliver out of his hand but he did according to his
will and became great. And as I was considering,
behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of
the whole earth, and touched not the ground and the
goat had a notable horn between his eyes. He came to
the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing
before the river, and ran unto him with the fury of his
power. And I saw him come close unto the ram. He was
moved with choler against him, hatred, and smote the
ram, and brake his two horns and there was no power in
the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to
the ground, and stamped upon him and there was none
that could deliver the ram out of his hand. Therefore
the he goat waxed very great and when he was strong,
the great horn was broken and for it came up four
notable horns towards the four winds of heaven. And
outéof one of them came forth a little horn, which
waxed exceedingly great, towards the south, towards the
east, towards the pleasant land. He waxed great, even
to the host of heaven and it cast down some of the host
of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
Yeah, he magnified himself even to the prince of the
host. Wow. Can you imagine a power trying to magnify
himself against Christ, huh?
JOHN: Umhum.
DAVID: And by him the daily was taken away,
O I
35
and the place of his sanctuary which is in heaven on
the sea of glass was cast down. And a host or a large
number of people was given him against the
Indiscernible!. They didn't want the morning and the
evening. By reason of transgression, they didnVt want
to do it. They cast down the truth of the seven seals.
God on the throne, oh, that's the ground. And the lie,
it practiced and prospered. And I heard one saint
speaking, and another saint said unto that one certain
saint which, spake, how long shall be the vision
concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression
of desolation. I mean by not believing that God sits
on the throne, not believe that God can give the book
to the Lamb is a transgression of desolation, you know.
To give both the sanctuary and the host, those who
Indiscernible! are to be trodden under foot? He said
in 2,300 days, which is six years, four months and 20
days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. Wouldn't
you like to know what that is? Well, we're almost
finished. And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel,
had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then,
behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a
man. Heard a man's voice between the banks of the
Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man
understand the vision. So don't believe my
interpretation, believe Gabriel's interpretation. So
36
he came near where I stood and when I came, I was
afraid, and fell upon my face but he said unto me,
understand, O son of man for at the time of the end
shall be the vision. Now when he was speaking with me,
I was in a deep sleep upon my face towards the ground.
Daniel fainted, right? But he touched me and set me
upright. He said, behold, I will make thee know what
shall be in the last end of the indignation for at the
time appointed the end shall be. Now, the ram which
thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and
Persia, which was Cyrus and Darius. And the rough goat
is the king of Grecia, which was Alexander the Great.
And the great horn that is between his eyes is the
first king, that's Alexander. Now, that being broken,
whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand
up out of the nation, but not in his power, which, you
know, is Xasander, Ptolemy, Lethushemus, Lisinemus
3
phonetic spellings!, these four generals took the
kingdom and divided it. And in the latter time of
their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the
Indiscernible! when everyone is just doing wicked, a
king of fierce countenance -- grwwww - and
understanding dark sentences, meaning passages from the
scriptures, shall stand up. His power shall be mighty,
but not by his own power the devil gives it to him.
He shall prosper and destroy wonderfully and shall
O C
37
prosper and practice and shall destroy the mighty and
the holy people, right? Right. And through his
policy, which is a lie, also he shall cause craft to
prosper in his hand. He shall magnify himself in his
heart, and by peace - remember the lamb-like beast? --
shall destroy many. He shall also stand up against the
Prince of princes. Hi, John. But he shall be broken
without hand. Why? Because the rock's going to get
him, right? The Father is going to come down and whup
he and all of his butts, right? Right. And the vision
of the evening and the morning which was told is true,
therefore shut up the vision, for it shall be for many
days. And Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days.
After that, he rose up and and did the king's business,
right? Okay. Now, in Chapters 10 and Chapter 11 we
get the last picture about this vision, okay? Now,
Christ says, When you see the abomination and
desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet -- now, we
know Christ said Daniel is a true prophet, right?
Okay. We need to look at some things here. Without an
understanding of the minor prophets and the major
prophets, the Book of Daniel might in some degree be
hard to comprehend. It's more for the advanced
students. But nonetheless, I'm going to give you some
chief verses just to prove a point. Okay. In Chapter
10 of Daniel, we see in Verse 14 that Gabriel comes and l
O O
38
says, Now I am come to make thee understand what shall
befall they people, when? In the latter days.
JOHN: In the latter days.
DAVID: For yet the vision is for many days."
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: Okay? Now, it says in Verse 2l, But
I will show thee that which is noted, where? In the
scripture of truth, right? And there is none that
holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your
prince. Now, whatever we're going to learn in
Chapter ll, remember it has to be backed by Moses,
Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Hosea, Obadiah,
Zephaniah, right? Amos, all of them, okay? So we're
not going to sit here and give you an interpretation by
my mouth, but we're going to simply point out some
certain points that you might find interesting. Now,1.
it says here in Chapter 11, it says here in Verse 27,
And§both these kings hearts shall be to do mischief,
and they shall speak lies at one table. Now, that's
real politicking, isn't it?
JOHN: Umhum.
DAVID: But it shall not prosper, for yet the
end shall be at the time appointed. Then shall be
returned to his own --
End oft Tape I77!
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO 8 FIREARMS
TAPE #78
3/7/93
2:52 A.M. - 9:25 A.H.
O I
D 2
Tape 78! _
DAVID: - his covenant and return to his own
land. Okay? At the time appointed he should return,
come towards the south, but it shall not be as the
former, or as the latter. For the ships of Chittim,
whatever they are, shall come against him; therefore he
shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation
against the holy covenant.
JOHN: Covenant.
DAVID: So shall he due; he shall even
return, have intelligence with them that forsake the
holy covenant. So he has to go around and understand
dark senses. Now he has to go around and find those
people that once had a chance to know it but turned
away from it. Okay?
~ Like for instance you know that I have
ceétain students that I taught a period of time, and1»
all of a sudden they say I'm wrong. But yet they never
teach people what I teach though. Huh.
So he has this intelligence, and then what
did he do? He collects arms. Arms shall stand on his
part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength,
and shall take away the daily, and they shall place the
abomination that maketh desolate.
Now what does he use? He uses arms doesn't
he?
3
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: What are arms? Weapons, right? Now
they go to pollute the sanctuary of strength to take /
away the daily. We learned about that earlier, didn't
we? f
Verse 32. And such as do wickedly against
the covenant shall be corrupt by flatteries. In other
words, all those that go against this covenant,
whatever it is, he'll say good boy. Good boy. But the
people that do know their God shall be strong, and do
exploits.
They that understand among the people shall
instruct many; yet they shall fall by the sword, by
flame, and by captivity, and by spoil, many days. Now
when they shall fall, they shall be indiscernible!
with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with
flatteries. Okay?
Now it says over here in verse 36. And the
king shall do according to his will; he shall exalt
himself, and magnify himself above every god. 'He shall
speak marvelous things against the God of gods, and
shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished:
tor that that is determined shall be done.
Neither shall regard the God of his fathers,
nor the desire of women. What's - who's the desire of
women? We know Psalms 45, the Lamb, hearken, 0
O I
i 4
daughter, consider? What girl would not want to marry
the Lamb, right? Or any God. For he shall magnify
himself above all.
But in his estate he shall honour the God of
forces. That's military. And a god whom his fathers
knew not shall he honour with gold, silver, and with
precious stones, and pleasant things. Thus shall he do
in the most strong holds. You know, strong, fortified,
military. with a strange god, whom we shall
acknowledge and increase with glory: he shall cause
them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for
gain. _
Okay. Now what does it mean over here when
it says verses 43. He shall have power over the
treasures of gold and of silver. Pretty nice, isn't
it? '
I
JOHN :_ Umhum.
DAVID: And of all the precious things of
Egypt; and the Libyans and Ethiopians shall be at his
steps. But all of sudden, but tidings out of the east
and out of the north shall trouble him. Isaiah says
I've raised up one from the north, and he shall come
from the rise in the sun. I bet that guy's going to
rise up and give a message that's going to trouble this
guy. Therefore he shall go forth with great fury to
destroy, and utterly to make away many. He shall plant
5
the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the
glorious holy mountain.
On Mount Zion, what sits on Mount Zion right
now, do you know?
JOHN: Tabernacle. Y
DAVID: What kind? A Catholic church, right?
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: And he shall come to his end, and
none shall help him. Why? So that time shall Michael
stand up. He's sitting down, you know. The great
prince which standeth for the children of thy people:
and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was
since there was a nation even to that time.
=You know, the father, the father kicked some
butt like you never heard. Habakkuk says I'll execute
judgment and vengeance on the heathens as they've never
heard. That's what Micah says. Okay? And at that
time thy people shall be delivered, everyone is found
written in the what? -In the book, right?
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: What book? Well, when I come with my
reward to give to every man according as his word shall
be, well, we're doing the work. And you're written in
the book. Because you're working according to the will
of the Lamb. The seven seals. And many of them that
sleep in the dust or the earth shall awake, some to
6
everlasting life, and some to everlasting shame and
everlasting contempt. You know what contempt of court
is, don't you?
JOHN: Sure do.
DAVID: It's when you're out of rule, when
you're out of order, right? In my Father's court,
there's seven seals. And there are those who in the
days of the prophets wouldn't hear them, and there are
those in the days of the prophets who will not learn
them. And they that be wise shall shine as the
brightness of the firmament.
Remember their faces shall be as flames?
Remember that? You learned in Isaiah 13? And they
that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever
and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and
1. '
seal the book, even to the time of the end. Which the
bodk is now open. I could teach it to you in more
detail if you wanted to come out here and learn it.
Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge
shall be increased. Hebrews says great knowledge shall
be increased. we're in that time right now.
Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there
stood other two, the one upon this side or the bank of
the river, the other side of the bank of the river.
okay. And one said to the man clothed in linen, which
was on the waters ot the river, How long shall it be to
7
the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed
in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when
he held up his right hand and left hand to heaven, and
sware by him that liveth for ever and ever which is the
Father. It shall be for a time, times, and a half.
We learned about that before, haven't we?
Revelation told us about it, Daniel tells us about it
and it's repeated again. And when he, that is the king
of the north, whoever he is, shall have accomplished to
scatter the power of the holy people, which is being
done right now, all these things shall be finished.
And I heard, but I understood not, Daniel
says. Then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of
these things? And he says, Go they way, Daniel: for
the words are closed up and sealed. Until what time?
Until the time of the what? End.
2 Now remember earlier I already showed you
that whatever Daniel 11 and 12 teaches us remember it
must be noted in the scripture of truth. so we've got
to harmonize Isaiah. We've got to harmonize Micah,
Hosea, Obadiah, Zephaniah with this book perfectly,
right? To get the full picture.
But we know one thing. That during this time
many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but
the wicked shall do wickedly. And how many? None of
the wicked shall what?
JOHN: Understand.
DAVID: But the wise shall what?
JOHN: Understand.
DAVID: And from the time that the daily
shall be taken away, and the abomination that maxetn
desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred
and ninety days.
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the
thousand three hundred five and thirty days. 1,335
days. But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou
shalt rest, Daniel, and stand in they lot at the end of
the days.
How would you like Daniel and all the
prophets to be raised up from the graves, John? would
you like to meet them?
, JOHN: Wouldn't you?
2 DAVID: Oh, I'm going to. Again. I have
before. And I will again. But would you want them to
come?
JOHN: Well, I'd just, I'd just like to meet
them once.
DAVID: Well, that's fine.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
' DAVID: But you --
JOHN: And I'm sure I will.
DAVID: But you don't want them to come and
9
beat your rear end, do you?
JOHN: Well, they're, they're not saying
they're going to necessarily beat mine in particular,
did they?
DAVID: Well, the thing of it is thist
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: The thing of it is this. when you
reject the one that they foretell.
JOHN: Yes.
DAVID: The prince of the covenant, then
you're rejecting them. It's kind of a family thing,
you know? i
JOHN: Yeah, and again we're talking
interpretation.
DAVID: Yeah.
, JOHN: Yeah. Hey, just remember. when you
come out, you'll have the opportunity to teach many,
won't you?
DAVID: A '13:.
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: A lot.
JOHN: Have you given any thought to, to what
we discussed about sending your word out to the media
and trying to straighten them out a little bit?
DAVID: Well, like I said, the, the options
that you've given me is that I make a tape --
think the
initially
Honestly.
ready to
you. JOHN: Well, I don't, I don't want you10
to, to
options are that as restricted as you
heard them.
DAVID: Look, John.
JOHN: Go ahead.
DAVID: This message is going to be
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: -- enlightened to the whole
Believe me.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: I do not mind coming out to
come out to you.
JOHN: Oh, I'd love to sit down and
DAVID:. The thing of it is, though,world.
you. I'm
talk to
John, is
that my Father tells me to wait. And I cannot go
beyond hi
tried --s commandment.
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: .I love him. And I'm indiscernible!.
JOHN: Then wait.
DAVID: It may not be that long.
JOHN: Hey.
DAVID: And the people here are being
JOHN: If you have to wait --
DAVID: Look. The people here are being
ll
tried, too.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: They believe on God by the word that
I've shown them. V
JOHN: Are the -- '
DAVID: They're, and they're being tried --
JOHN: -- are those little children being
tried in there too?
DAVID: The little children --
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: -- are my children.
JOHN: Well, they're all your children.
DAVID: That's true too. But these are my
biological children.
JOHN: And we are all God's children.
, DAVID: To a degree.
f JOH: Well, what degree?
DAVID: Some greater than others.
JOHN: well] I'm not going to --
DAVID: He that is of God --
JOHN: -- I'm not going to dispute that one.
DAVID: He that, he that is of God hears
God's word. Now the more you learn of God's word, the
more you're going to think about this.
JOHN: Uh-huh. But I mean you're saying that
all of those people in there including the children,
12
right?
DAVID: Right.
JOHN: Nell, what about the children that,
that you let come out?
DAVID: Well, those children are safe, aren't
they? Didn't you promise me that?
JOHN: Well, they're all safe, aren't they?
DAVID: Oh, John, you're funny.
JOHN: Hey. Son of a gun. I'd love to sit
down with you.
DAVID: Well, we're -- you're sitting down.
I'm --
.JOHN: And I know we will, huh?
= DAVID: -- I'm laying down. I plan on it,
John.
1.
' JOHN: No, you're lying down.
f DAVID: I'm lying down now.
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: I'n lying down. Yeah, I'm in a --
this is one of my most prone positions these days.
JOHN: Well --
DAVID: Hopefully I'm going to be able to
walk out of here. Because like I say --
JOHN: I know you will.
DAVID: -- the Father's been -- the Father's
healing me quite well. The, the holes are -- I'm going
13
to take a picture and show this to you so you can take
a look at it.
JOHN: Hey, will you?
DAVID: I Will.
JOHN: You got a camera in there?
DAVID: You bet.
JOHN: You got a Instamatic?
DAVID: Steve.
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: Steve?
JOHN: Oh, don't wake him up.
DAVID: Okay. Wait a minute. All right.
JOHN: Listen, I --
DAVID: Yeah, it's just I know we've got
ODE ""
,. JOHN: - I didn't ring that phone last
night. I let you sleep all night.
DAVID: Yeah, I'll show you these holes so
you can see what you think about it.
JOHN: Let me, let me ask you something now.
DAVID: Go ahead.
JOHN: You know, initially I guess what, this
atternoon, this afternoon -- I look track of days,
right? Yesterday afternoon, yesterday morning when you
were talking to Dick or Steve was talking to Dick. I
guess you were -- both of you talked to him, huh? And
i
14
they made that proposition and, and basically you felt
that was kind of an unwieldy proposition.
And the one that I gave you some food for
thought, to make a tape and to correct any, any errors
that you think have been made or assertions that have
been made by the media and give it some thought. And
I'm not talking about a lengthy, lengthy tape, but a
15-minute tape to refute some comments that they may
have made.
And if you release some of those youngsters
out of there, we will play the tape. But you send the
tape out, we'll listen to the tape. Then you send the
youngsters out, the tape gets played. And, and send a
picture out. Because I'd like to see a picture. You
don't want one of me in return, I know. But send a
1. .
picture out.
f DAVID: You never met my babies, have you?
JOHN: No, I haven't. But I'd love to. I've
met some of these other youngsters that came out. And
I tell you the one that was, the one that, you know, I
guess I felt warmest about was Jamie.
DAVID: Oh, yeah. Indiscernible! medical --
JOHN: But I have a reason for that. I've
got a goddaughter that's got Down's Syndrome. And I've
got a reason tor that.
DAVID: Right.
I
15
JOHN: And you love them even more, don't
you?
DAVID: Indiscernible!. Oh, you bet.
JOHN: Huh? They need a lot of love.
DAVID: And we figured that, you
all weren't going to give us the milk like
and stuff like that. And so, you know, he
needs a lot of special care that, you know
JOHN: He's getting that specialknow, you
you promised
needs, he
care too. I
just wish I could give it to him myself. You probably
do too, don't you?
DAVID: It will be done.
JOHN: Nell, why don't you give it some
thought? =1 mean don't totally reject the, the ability
to play a tape. Because you're going to, you're going
to yatch TV in the morning or CNN during the night or
wh§tever. And you're going to hear everybody's got
their ideas. And everybody's got their theories. And
everybody's got their speculation. And you know and I
know it's a bunch of nonsense.
Because you know how it's going to work out,
and I know how it's going to work out. You're going to
walk out of there. You're going to lead those people
out of there. And you're going to do the right thing.
DAVID: Always.
JOHN: Then you're, then you're going to let
16
some other people listen to your word. And I'll tell
you if you come out of there, you can meet the press.
You can sit down with the press. And if there's
someone in particular that you want to meet you when
you come out of there, all you got to do is name them.
They'll be there.
And if you want me to meet you when you come
out of there, I might be the last person you want to
meet. But I'd love to meet you coming out of there.
DAVID: Well, John --
JOHN: And greet you.
DAVID: -- just don't be too hard.
JOHN: What?
. DAVID: Just remember, whoever falls on this
rock shall be broken, right? Whoever this rock falls
on shall be ground to powder.
I
1;"; JOHN: rm-mm.
DAVID: Now think what that means.
_ JOHN: You-going to philosophize me right
into the, into the evening, huh?
DAVID: No. What I'm going to say is I'm
going to say that learn about that little red horse in
Zechariah. It says those prophets are wrong. You have
nothing to worry about. Those prophets are right.
JOHN: What about planting the, the seed of
the seven seals on a tape?
17
DAVID: Well, the thing of it is --
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: -- is remember I'm sitting here --
JOHN: And I know you'd rather discuss it in
person, wouldn't you? T
DAVID: I'm sitting here jabbering all over
the place.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: And I'm working with you right now.
And I'm telling you --
JOHN: Boy, it's not easy either, is it?
DAVID: Oh, sure it is.
JOHN: No.
,DAVID: Sure it is. Because remember, the
last laugh and the last laugh that's laughed.
JOHN: Well, they also say he who laughs last
I
isqan ass for not have laughing sooner too, didn't
may?
DAVID: Well, there's the whole thing, isn't
it?
JOHN: Uh-huh.
s DAVID: So in Isaiah 11 when that prophet
goes ahead says that there shall come forth a rod out
ot the stump of Jesse, you know, and his Branch shall
bear fruit. It shall be the spirit of knowledge and
wisdom and understanding and the fear of the Lord.
18
DAVID: Hake him of quick understanding,
smite the earth with the rod of his mouth. Remember
with the breath of his lips he slays the wicked. What
he promises, what he says of God is going to come to
pass. So when those people say aha, aha --
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: - even in their
right. He can laugh too
JOHN: Well, so much, so
perception. You know, when I tell
you when you come out of
I want to meet you.heart, that's all
much of this is
you I want to meet
there, I'm not lying to you.
=DAVID: I'll meet you.
JOHN: I'll sit down and talk to you. Or I
|.
wouldn't be sitting here talking to you on the phone.
You know, nobody's making me do this. Nobody's forcing
me to do this. You know, I, I want to do it. And, and
I want to see everything
for all of us.
DAVID: I love
JOHN: And you
you?
DAVID: I know
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: I knowwork out in a peaceful manner
peace, John.
do too. I know that. Don't
that.
that.
19
JOHN: Why don't you give some thought to
putting together a tape. And, and you watch the news.
You hear what's on the news. And you hear people
saying things. And if they're not true, clarify them.
You know, you can do that.
DAVID: Why don't you give me a live?
JOHN: You know that's not going happen,
don't you.
DAVID: Why?
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: Why not?
JOHN: It's not going to happen. It's --
DAVID: Why not?
JOHN: -- as simple as that.
DAVID: Oh, that's where you get real big and
1. ,
tough, right?
f JOHN: No. I'm not being big and tough. I'm
just telling you that some things are very matter of
fact. And that's not*going to happen.
DAVID: Oh, okay.
JOHN: And I'm not saying I'm playing --
DAVID: Well, talk to you later, John.
JOHN: Hey.
DAVID: Laughing.!
JOHN: Uhhuh.
DAVID: Oh, boy. You think I'm laughing.
John.
who's really laughing. I mean, you know, you guys like
I say
there's a
Steve
N;
great
triedJOHN: Now, now don't --
DAVID: You think, you think I'm laughing
If you, if you knew --
JOHN: Don't go, don't go away mad, now.
DAVID: No, I'm not. If you knew in Psalms 2
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: Since the foundation of the world
certain group of people that never learn.
JOHN: I'm one of those?
DAVID: John, let's hope not.
JOHN: Well, I hope not.
DAVID: That's your decision, okay? _
JOHN: .1 hope not. Now don't be kicking
and waking him up now, huh?
DAVID: I'm not going to kick Steve.
JOHN: You were going to.
DAVID: He gave me, he gave me a, he gave
JOHN: You --
he'd have bee DAVID: - let me tell you,
He gave me a working over when I first 9"Y-
to teach him.
JOHN: That: what he said.
DAVID: Then he --I
11
21
JOHN: He said he was not your easiest
student.
DAVID: Well, he had such a good position
though being a teacher of comparative religion and all
that. 7
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: Hen look up to one of those -
JOHN: Where, where did he teach?
DAVID: Some place in Hawaii.
JOHN: Boy, he did give up a lot, didn't he?
DAVID: Well, a lot of people did, you know.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: A lot of people gave up jobs making,
you know; 100, 200,000 a year.
JOHN: Really.
DAVID: Six million a year, yeah.I
"f JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: But you know, the thing of it was is
like I say they - I"used to freak them out, because I
would tell them to turn their money and stuff over to
somebody else. Hey.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: But the truth will always win.
JOHN: Always wins in the end, doesn't it?
DAVID: Always.
22
DAVID: Okie doke.
JOHN: You -- hey, you going to let me speak
to some of those girls in the morning that --
DAVID: Any person you --
JOHN: -- that the relatives calls?
DAVID: Any person you want to talk to you
may talk to them freely here. Anyone.
JOHN: Well, I, I asked last night I asked --
I'm not talking about this night. Last night, 24 hours
ago, I asked Steve, and I gave him the names of the
family members that called in and the names of the
people. And I got to speak to, to Lisa, and I got to
speak to Rita. But neither one of those were on the
list that I gave him.
DAVID: Well, what are some of the names
then? Run them by me.
l§ JOHN: Okay. Belinda Gaynum phonetic sp.!
called about David Thibodeaux phonetic sp.!.
DAVID: Okay. He's here.
JOHN: And Lonnie Little called about Jeff
Little.
DAVID: He's here.
JOHN: And Ursula Gurman phonetic sp.!
called about --
DAVID: Harguerita.
JOHN: -- Harguerita Vega.
~. 23
DAVID: Yeah, she's here.
JOHN: Then of course we had someone call
about Ns. Nadsen phonetic sp.! who is out already.
And --
DAVID: was that her daughters that called
or -- i
JOHN: Diana HcClintock's. Yes. Her --
DAVID: Yeah, okay. Okay.
JOHN: -- one of, one of her daughters or her
daughter, whomever, yeah, called about her mom. And I
don't know if it was Hr. or Hrs. Hosher called about i
Sherri Jewell but their daughter.
DAVID: Okay.
JOHN: And Hary Jane Borst' son called.
And --
1.
,» DAVID: Wait, wait a second, now.
Q JOHN: Mary Jean Borst.
DAVID: Okay, Mary Jean, yeah.
JOHN: And then --
DAVID: That's Brad. Brad? Yeah, he called,
right? Brad Horst?
JOHN: No.
DAVID: No? Must be the other older ones.
Okay. Go ahead.
JOHN: And what do you have, Green, Graeham
Leonard Craddock. Okay.
24
DAVID: Yeah, he's here.
JOHN: Yeah. He had a family member call for
him. Douglas Wayne Martin, Sheila Martin, they had
several people call to see how they're doing.
DAVID: Uh-huh. Now that family is all
Harvard graduate family is a graduate of the --
::o1~m= Uhhuh. i
DAVID: -- all honors at Harvard, and they're
doctors and lawyers and all that. I imagine they get a
lot of calls.
JOHN: Well, his parents aren't, aren't
lawyers, just hardworking folks. '
DAVID: No, no, no, no. They're not lawyers.
But --
JOHN: Yeah.
1
, DAVID: - in the ministry, ministers.
ii JOHN: Uhhuh. And then Paul Fatta and
Colani phonetic sp.! Fatta had some people call.
DAVID: Uh -huh.
JOHN: You know, so I would just -- like I
told Steve I said hey, why don't you and I told him
Friday night, you know, not Saturday night. I said why
don't you let me say hi to these people and just let
them know that their loved ones are calling and
expressing an interest about their welfare, and he said
sure, I'll take care of that.
25
DAVID: Well, give us a ring in the morning
and let's let these people, let them talk to you.
JOHN: You going to, you going to be able to
handle that?
DAVID: Why not? '
JOHN: Well, okay. Well, I'm just asking,
because it didn't happen today.
DAVID: Well, I, I didn't know anything about
it. This is the first time you're telling me about it.
JOHN: Well, I told Steve, you know. And
there must have been a breakdown in communications,
huh? ~
DAVID: Well, Steve, Steve doesn't have the,
the leniehcy of, of insult that I do.
JOHN: Hey.
1 DAVID: As long as I do.
1;
J JOHN: It will all work out though, huh?
DAVID: Yeah.
JOHN: I'll give you a call about 5 o'clock?
DAVID: In the morning?
JOHN: No. Hey, you were lucky. I gave you
a break yesterday morning. Didn't call until what --
as a matter of fact, I had Dick call about what --
DAVID: Why don't you, why don't you take a
nap, and give us a call at about 7 o'clock then.
JOHN: I don't take a nap. But I'll call you
26
at 7. And who else? Oh. Somebody just put a note
here. Melissa, the little girl that --
DAVID: Uhhuh yawning!.
JOHN: Hang in there. This won't take much
longer.
DAVID: Go ahead.
JOHN: Laughing.! Show no respect at all to
your elders.
DAVID: Why, just because I'm yawning?
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: I may be older than you, John. You
just don't know.
JOHN: Uhoh. No. I'm talking about earthly
years, okay?
DAVID: Oh, all right.
, JOHN: And you're not. They talked to
Melissa yesterday about coming out.
DAVID: Uh-huh.
JOHN: And I guess then her mom talked to, to
Steven or someone else. And then she, she changed her
tune because of something that pertained to Robert.
Now I know she didn't know Robert from the man in the
noon.
DAVID: Yes, she did.
JOHN: But her mother did.
DAVID: No. she knew Robert too.
JOHN: Well, this27
little 6-year-old girl
didn't know him to ask the questions that were being
asked so --
DAVID: Yeah.
JOHN: -- she was being prompted. And I
understand that. I appreciate that. _
DAVID: Well, that's the mother's right and
responsibility too. Because they know no one can talk
to Robert --
JOHN: Well, the mother was being prompted by
someone else. She'd have never asked that question.
DAVID: Well, now
normally she did not really
her, I said Melissa --
JOHN: Well, then
. DAVID: -- if you
Robert --
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: You know.
send them out anyway.
" JOHN: Well --the thing of it was that
want to go. And I asked
why in the world was --
get a chance to talk to
I'm making negotiations with her too.
Because otherwise I got
DAVID: But I'm giving her a chance. I said
look, it we get to talk to Robert would you go? And
she looked at me, and she smiled and she says yes.
JOHN: Don't want to force anybody to do
something against their will, huh?to
Z8
DAVID: Laughing.!
JOHN: 1-n being serious. You don't, do you?
DAVID: Have I?
JOHN: Not that I know of. But you don't
want to, huh? How about making some arrangements in
the morning for me to talk to those folks.
DAVID: Okie doke.
JOHN: Okay?
DAVID: Give us a call.
JOHN: Keep your powder dry. Hang in there.
DAVID: All right. will do.
JOHN: Okay. Take care.
DAVID: Halatov phonetic sp.!. Shalom.
JOHN: Shalom.
iiiii
I STEVE: Hello?
f DICK: Steve?
STEVE: Yes.
DICK: Dick here.
STEVE: Dick. Hi, did you get some rest?
DICK: I got a little rest, and I understand
you got a little rest.
STEVE: I might have had an hour.
DICK: They told me to get back to you around
7.
s'r1:vn= on, boy.
29
DICK: We gave you a little, we gave you a
little extra time, Steve.
STEVE: They told them - I told them try me
about 9 o'clock.
DICK: Ooh, let's -- hey, we got the milk for
you.
STEVE: You do, huh?
DICK: We got the milk for you. I'll tell
you what we're going to do here with the milk. We --
listen, we've got a container. We've got it iced for
you. It will be here shortly.
This is what we'd like to do. We'll bring
the milk down. We'll drop it off. I know you're
concerned that we're -- I want to show you that we will
do in fact what we say we will do. We're going to
bring the milk down, drop it at the drop point and move
.: .
b8¢k.
In return, we want four of your kids to come
up, and we're going to give you the milk for the kids.
We'll let one adult go up with it. You take one adult
up to bring the milk back, and send us the kids. And
we're prepared to do that momentarily. You get the
kids ready, and we'll have it there.
STEVE: Hold on. Indiscernible.! He was up
quite late with John, you know, David was.
DICK: Yes.
7
I I
30
STEVE: And when it comes to the, the
decisions about children -- now individuals, the
children's are usually the parents. Then he can a lot
of times say well, give it some thought or something
and try to encourage them. But -- T
DICK: You can't do this yourself? I mean
this is just milk.
STEVE: Not with the four children I can't.
Jeff? I'm aware of that.
DICK: This is -- Steve.
STEVE: If you, if you --
DICK: Put David on. I'll talk to him
directly then.
:STEVE: No, he fell asleep at 5:30 this
morning. ,
h DICK: All right. But you want the milk in
I
thdre --
. STEVE: He was, he was awake --
DICK: Pardon me?
STEVE: He was awake with John all that time
DICK: Well, that's, that's fine. Then --
STEVE: Then --
DICK: -- I assume that you can go ahead and
make a decision on this matter, can't you? I know you
9"Y9 "
STEVE: See, I don't know which four
31
children. I can't go choose and say hey, I want your
children to go out there and see, I mean these -- they
won't comply with me in the first place, Dick. They
really wouldn't.
DICK: Well, you're agreeable to it, are you
not? I
STEVE: I've always been from the beginning.
DICK: Absolutely. I mean this is --
STEVE: But I've --
DICK: -- what you asked for, and I got it
done for you. While I was not here I've been working
with these folks again.
STEVE: You, you guys are so funny. I say
that because, you know, look at the, the techniques you
use? You know, coercion and all of the other --1. '
q DICK: Now, listen, Steve, please.
if STEVE: No, no, no, no. I'm going to --
DICK: How is this coercion?
STEVE: -- listen, no, no. No, no. Listen
now. I: going to put the phone down. Don't, you
know --
DICK. Let's don't argue about this. We'll
get it for you. You asked us for it --
. STEVE: Okay, now, now listen to me.
DICK: -- and we've gotten it done for you.
STEVE: Listen. Are you ready to listen?
32
DICK: Certainly.
STEVE: All right. That was an agreement
like 3, 4, 4, what was it, 4 days ago already, Dick,
about the milk?v
DICK: You asked for it and we've been
working on it --
STEVE: Yeah, I asked for the milk. Nothing
to do with four children. So you know, if you want
to --
DICK: Steve --
STEVE: -- continue to talk about four
children and the milk, talk to David. I can't --
there's --
; DICK: I know. I'll be happy to.
STEVE: I'm trying to be honest with you. I
can't do anything about it.
é DICK: But bear this into mind when you two
discuss it, okay?
STEVE: All right.
DICK: We told you there has to be a give and
some take. Okay, we're willing to bring the milk down
to show you that in fact the milk will be there. It's
all -- we're, we're, you know, we can do it
momentarily. I sold this -- you know, I've sold a
number of issues tor you. And it took some time and
it, these things do take time. We're willing to give
33
you the milk.' We want some kids for it. I mean it
comes down to that. You guys have to give some. We
give some.
STEVE: I realize that. But what can I do?
Can you give him another hour or two maybe? Because he
fell asleep at 5:30.
DICK: Okay. Well, you know, that's not
unreasonable. You like the idea though, don't you?
STEVE: I'm open to anything, Dick. I really
am.
DICK: Sure. Well, that's what -- we'll work
together and we're working together. So you know,
it's - we've gone beyond this impasse I think to
work -- =
STEVE: Yeah. But I was just trying to give
as an example, you know, like Rose. You know, I --
there's - I can't tell her - I watched her spirit and
attitude with the child. It was obvious she did not
want her, you know, her child to go.
DICK: Um-hum.
STEVE: And that's why I just we left it
up to her. And David says well, would you mind he
asked her, you know, would you be willing for the child
to go it I had a chance to speak with Robert? I mean
I'm not bringing that up for now. That was then.
But I mean so I don't - there's nothing I
34
can really do when it comes to the mother and the
children or whatever. Do you understand? About the
father, whatever.
DICK: Well, I understand that.
STEVE: Okay.
DICK: But that you can't force them to go
obviously. But my belief is based on the conversations
I've had with you and with David that, that it's likely
that some folks would want to go. And with, with the
milk coming in there would be no opposition to that.
Certainly for those that stay behind they want the milk
for those kids, I think they would be completely
supportive of that. And of course, you, you know that
the kids are getting --
STEVE: I'll tell you what, Dick --
, DICK: -- very good care outside.
é STEVE: Call back right at 9 on the head.
DICK: Let's, let's make it 8:30.
STEVE: Hake it 9. Because when -- I mean he
tell asleep at 5:30. I will try to --
DICK: Okay, we'll make it 9 o'clock.
STEVE: -- try to see what I can do then.
DICK: Sure, 9 o'clock is tine. We'll get
back to you then. And then also in talking with John,
I know there was some, some conversation between you
and he concerning these folks that you and I talked
I
92
35
about yesterday verifying that some of these folks were
in there and that John had indicated that you said that
they would be available for us to talk to so we can
feel comfortable, and the press can feel comfortable
that they're free to go. And, and John suggested that
you said that was fine.
So I'll be, you know, I'll be looking forward
to speaking with them in, you know, over the next time
period here. And we'll get that, we'll get that issue
straightened out. John wanted me to mention that to
you directly, because I know you had made arrangements
with him to do that.
STEVE: Well, see that's what I -- like I had
said earlier that's always been something that is open
to them - I
; DICK: Sure, they're free to do it.
STEVE: Yeah. And I passed around a number
of times, and like I had told you, they were standing
here waiting. Even by the way when you called at 4
o'clock, there was a number of people standingfhere to
talk to you. But you and I got on some other issues --
~ DICK: Sure, so --
STEVE: -- the other never came back up
again, and I never talked to you again after that.
DICK: Well, round them up, and I'll be happy
to speak with them.
36
STEVE: They had been, they had been standing
here though.
DICK: Good. Well that, you know, that makes
it easy then. You can run them down and tell them that
we're -- I'm ready to talk to them and to talk to them
about their fears and concerns.
STEVE: I believe children got on the phone
with him along with some adults.
DICK: Good. Well, let's go through the rest
of them then --
STEVE: Indiscernible.!
DICK: -- and there will be others in there,
I'm sure, that would like, like us to explain to them
about certain fears that they might have. And, and
I'll be happy to do that.
STEVE: Okay.
I
'3 DICK: We'll answer all those questions for
them and, and we'll work together.
STEVE: Okay, call me at 9.
DICK: Very well.
STEVE: Okay, talk to you --
DICK: Talk to you.
STEVE: Okay, bye.
DICK: Bye, now.
iiii
STEVE: Hello?
37
DICE: Steve?
STEVE: Hello.
DICK: Dick again.
s'r1=:vn= Right .
DICK: You got David up there?
STEVE: Just let me take a look here.
DICK: Okay.
STEVE TO DAVID: Indiscernib1e.! You want
to talk to Dick?
IQBPJ
STEVE: Okay. David's right over here. He
says them that that milk thing is starting to get kind
of sour. They're joking about it. You know, 4 days
ago it was, it was something that was requested.
Today, you know, when I mentioned it to him a minute or
twd ago just before you called he mentioned tell them
to send 6 gallons of ice cream and --
DICK: Laughing.!
STEVE: - and two children back.
DICK: Listen. I told you that there was
some opposition to the milk.
STEVE: I know you did. That's why I told
him also. So I mean why even bring it up anymore?
DICK: You're the one that wants the milk.
And this is a positive thing that we're doing for you.
STEVE: Yeah, 4 days ago that's what I did
1
92
>
92
0 L
38
say --
DICK: I understand but --
STEVE: -- indiscernible! now.
DICK: -- but is there a less need for milk
today than there was 4 days ago? Y
STEVE: If they made it 4 days without it I
guess they can make it further.
DICK: Well, I'll tell you, those children
need the milk. I assume that that's why you originally
asked for it --
STEVE: Oh, yeah, but they --
DICK: -- because the kids need it.
STEVE: Of course. They're crying.
DICK: Sure. And there's no less need today.
In tact, there's probably more today. So we're willing
to,do it. And this is a positive thing. Let's move
forward.
STEVE: David, David says and he is taking it
very personal, because they are his babies.
DICK: Well, let me talk directly to him.
STEVE: Just a moment.
I98?!
STEVE: He says I don't want to talk to him
right now.
DICK: Well, let's work it out then between
the two of us. And you can go to him then and, and
I
39
make the point. obviously, you've got the interest in
the children the same as I do, the same as David does.
STEVE: Well, he said to me, he said
unidentified male voice in background not discernible!
tell him to go have a milkshake.
DICK: A milkshake. Now listen. I don't, I
don't think this is something to joke about. We --
STEVD: I'm not. Believe me --
DICK: We're getting --
STEVE: I'm telling you the honest truth.
He's not smiling. He's not laughing. If you wanted to
see his face he's extremely -- I
DICK: I know. But that, that reference to a
milkshakel You know, I can understand --
STEVE: Well, you know, meaning that --
é DICK: -- be a little facetious.
i sTsvs= That --
DICK: I know, you're being a little
facetious. But --
STEVE: It doesn't need -- the subject
doesn't even need to come up anymore unless that six --
a thousand dollars was sent. And that was -- it
sounded to me like there was no stipulations the day
that it was mentioned. Unidentified male voice in
background not discernible.! It sounded like you guys
were just going to send some materials that were
40
needed. Oh, and by the way, send 6 gallons for the
babies. They need it.
DICK: Uh-huh.
STEVE: It didn't sound like any big deal.
DICK: Well -- I
STEVE: And it's turned into be one of the
biggest things of all.
DICK: Well, again, I was, you know, it would
have been my hope that we could have gotten it in
earlier. But we've gone to the, to the committee
there. And we've gotten their okay. And we're ready
to do it right now.
And, and I - again, this morning I came to
you with what I thought was a, you know, an effort on
our part to get this thing moving, a positive effort.
And I've done it. We're ready to do -- and then you
guys just reject it once again out of hand. You've
made all kinds of requests of us, and we don't do them
as soon as you want, and so all of a sudden it's not
good enough. You got to understand --
STEVE: That isn't true.
DICK: and give us some latitude here.
STEVE: I can do only what, you know, what
you can do. I mean sometimes these requests change
because if they don't, you know, like you say. You
know, half of a week goes by or more, and what are you
I
going to do?
DICK: That doesn't41
lessen the need for it
though, Steve, for the kids, does it?
STEVE: Well, I --
DICK: Huh?
STEVE: - that's what I would have thought
on your behalf that you'd have recognized that right
away.
DICK: Well, I tried to. And again I make
these requests for you --
STEVE: So there's -- I'm sure there's some
things he may negotiate with you like playing that
couple seconds spot on the radio for a couple children
so frequently. But things like that to him are an
insult. They really are. So
a moment.
STEVE: All right.
DICK: Yesterday in
we had, you made reference to
that was on the TV suggesting
to care tor the babies. You,ug DICK: Listen. Let me just discuss that for
one of the conversations
one of the two gentlemen
we would send the food in
you made a big point out
of that. And we're ready. We've, we've done it.
We've got it here.
Again, you know, I've gone to the, to the
bosses for you. And we've gotten the okay. And then
42
all of a sudden you reject it.
STEVE: well, no, no, no.
DICK: You reject it. Everything that we
do --
STEVE: I like the way --
DICK: -- for you, you reject it.
STEVE: No, Dick. I like the way you word
things. You can try to play, you know, on one's
sympathies and all the rest. But what the man said was
aside from any negotiations on TV. He made it very
clear that they had our interests in mind when it came
to or needs in mind when it came to things of that
nature. And even when it came to the dead or the
wounded and so forth just as Jim had stated way back
Sunday. 5 .
D The annoyance was that on one side it was
being stated before the public. On the other, you and
4
I are negotiating and bargaining over things that were
not mentioned on, on the program at all. I mean if you
want to send us sutures, or you want to send us
pictures of the children, you know, that was your
suggestion about that. None of us here even requested
such stuff.
DICK: But it was only after you expressed
concern about the welfare of the kids and had suggested
that the kids had been split up. You wouldn't accept
43
my word that the kids had not been split up. So we
talked about what --
STEVE: Okay, fine.
DICK: - we could do to show you that that
was true. And we did do something.
STEVE: That's fine.
DICK: So you know, we're making the effort,
Steve.
STEVE: That's always what I, what I was
saying, though, are those things that were requested
from this place, you know, days and days have gone by.
And to us, they were very minor things. Substantial
things to the children, of course, but it shows us, you
know, a different spirit that's manifested on TV then
what is in actuality to us.
" DICK: Well, Steve, you know, you've asked
I
fo things for instance the suture kit. We sent the
suture kit.
STEVE: Did we ask for that?
DICK: What do we what in return you do
nothing. I mean we -- you want milk. We're ready to
send the milk in. You reject it. You know, I'm
starting to believe that you ask for these things
feeling that we won't give them to you, and them you
can complain about it. We are giving them to you --
STEVE: NO, HO.
44
DICK: - and we have them ready for you.
And then you, and then you go on to something else.
STEVE: Dick, truly I believe as the rest
here that 6 gallons of milk would have showed up within
about an hour. From the way we were talking that day
the -- was that you on the other side of the phone?
I -- it's so many days ago, and it's gone back and
forth so many times. I don't -- was it originally put
out to Henry? I think it was, wasn't it?
DICK: It was.
STEVE: And it seemed like from the response
like it was not a big deal. It seemed like it have
been just sent right out when we were still bringing
children out and all the rest. Well, all of a sudden
being that it -- well, we're, we're not going to do it
or this or that. Well, see after a while it starts
becpming a very sour, and I don't mean that to be
funny, but a very sour issue.
DICK: Well, you know, we've done so many
positive things for you in return received little or
nothing.
STEVE: What positive things? You mentioned
the sutures, and that's about it. what, what else have
you done?
DICK: Well, the, the written statement from
David.
45
STEVE: We have sent Heather. We've sent
Kevin. We've sent Mark.
DICK: Open up the phone line. I mean we
opened up communications with you right after the
Sunday thing as quickly as possible.
STEVE: Wait a minute, now. With that, with
that phone business, it was our -- we are the ones that
initiated with --
DICK: Absolutely. You asked us to --
STEVE: -- with you people on the, wait now,
with the telephone even in behalf of trying to get your
wounded out.
DICK: I understand. We appreciate that.
STEVE: We, we didn't want anybody hurt and
wounded in the first place. But in fact, we wanted
them to even move quicker than what they were.
2 DICK: And that works to your advantage.
Absolutely true. Absolutely true. You could have --
someone could have shot the agent that was down in the
back --
STEVE: That's true.
DICK: -- and you allowed to bring them out.
So that obviously is in your favor. ATF appreciates
that as does we -- as do we. You offered -- you asked
for a couple of other things. Play a tape on national
TV and you'll come out. We play the tape. We see no
46
response. Rita asked play the tape during prime time.
And we did.V The rest of the children will come out.
No. David wants 150 feet of cord and a telephone. We
send it in. In response, we get nothing.
STEVE: No, no. Wait, wait. What that was
about -- now let's not, let's not take it out of the
context of that it was spoken about. That was asked
for for your benefit and mine in that we could
communicate without a break in the line.
DICK: Okay. Okay.
STEVE: And mostly as much for yourselves as
us.
DICK: Steve, you -- I
STEVE: Because originally when Jim was
talking to me, the phone would stop and break. He says
what can we do about it? I says we're - look. Here,
David's going to send some money. He - the two of
them talked it out. And that's why the phone because
we'd accept another phone with a line so that we can
continue.
DICK: Okay.
STEVE: Because they wanted as much as us.
DICK: But I'm just showing -- I know. But
I'm - what I'm saying is we're trying to work together
with you.
STEVE: I, I know what you're trying to say
{
47
and do. I see what you're trying to do and what you're
saying. I, I do see it clearly.
DICK: You know, the public sees our effort
on the one side and sees nothing coming from you.
STEVE: This is true. And this is the way --
DICK: Isn't that true?
STEVE: - this is the way you would have it.
DICK: No, this is the way it is.
STEVE: No, this is the way --
DICK: But we're trying to work together.
STEVE: You are right. We are cut off from
them. But you have total access as we have watched to
make any kind of a statement you want. And we've got
to spend days trying to correct little things. After a
while, you know, you tell them what you feel you need
to tell them. Because you know we have nothing to say
abqpt it anyway.
DICK: Listen. Let me read you an article
today. I, I want to point out to you folks in there.
I know you're concerned about support. Let me read
just excerpts from, from an article that appeared in
the paper today that I
STEVE: What
DICK: Yeah,
Worth Star Telegraph.
STEVE: Fortthink --
paper? The local --
the local -- no, it's
Worth Star Telegraph.the Fort
48
DICK: Right. Let me read you just some
paragraphs from this thing. It quotes this man that,
that by Tim Sullivan of the Star Telegraph. He's a -
STEVE: All right.
DICK: -- reporter that had spoken with a
local person up there. He said, this is quote what
this fellow is saying. He said that the February 28th
raid on the compound by federal agents was an attempt
to suppress religious activities because its members
live communally and by their own rules. He goes on to
say the government has become a police state. They
want everybody to bow down to them.
Again, he said the raid's violence which left
tour ATFagents and at least some Branch Dividians dead
was the fault of the government. You attack a man's
home, and he will fight back. I think this was a set-
up: this man says, by the government. I want people to
understand that government doesn't act properly. This
is the kind of support that people are giving you out
there. But when, when - _
STEVE: What, what do you think of a
statement like that?
DICK: I think that a man that you're able to
make a statement like that in this country you can make
statements like that every day, and we all respect that
ability and that right which is given to us by the
' |»»
49
Constitution. I'm not, don't oppose that. Certainly I
don't oppose that.
I may not always agree with what I read. But
people have the latitude in this country to do that,
and that's exactly what you're going to be able to do
when you guys come out of there is make these kinds of
statement. I mean it's - you're not isolated in
there. You're going to have the ability to make these
kinds of statement to the press.
You'll -- they'll have total access. And,
and we're going to address that issue I hope on this
morning's press conference. Because I, I suggested to
the folks that you were concerned about your inability
to talk with people at some point in time. And I said
hey, tell the media that. They will know that you're
coqterned about that. And I'll tell you, they'll beat
your doors down to get the story. They will beat the
doors down. They'll have you lined up on --
STEVE: Dick --
DICK: - to be interviewed at length.
STEVE: Okay. What time did you leave
yesterday?
DICK: What time did I leave?
STEVE: Yeah.
DICK: Oh, probably, you know, 9 o'clock last
night.
I
V
~ 50
STEVE: There was --
DICK: 9:30, 10.
STEVE: Did the guys in the Bradleys, what
did they think of the music? .
DICK: Laughing.! The guys in the Eradleys,
what did they think of the music, huh?
STEVE: Yeah.
DICK: Well, I don't know. Some of them I
guess would like everybody else would like the music.
STEVE: Some did, huh?
DICK: Others would find it not to their
liking. It's like me down here in Texas. I'm, I'm,
you know, I'm listening to these Texas stations here
with the cowboy music. And --
.. s'r1=:vn= E Right.
1% DICK: -- where I live I don't hear much
cowboy music. So you know --
STEVE: See, what the prophecies actually
stated was that the final message to the world -- this
was, this was shown to me 6-1/2 years ago. I wasn't
oven into music. I've never really cared for that kind
of music myself. But --
DICK: Um-hum.
STEVE: -- finally it grew on me. But here's
the thing. In the prophecy of Habakkuk it talks about
shigionat phonetic!, the turbulent lyrics, there is to
y 51
be a message of salvation, seven seals that were to be
given by this form of communication, music, the highest
form of communication that there is.
DICK: Um-hum.
STEVE: And we decided, David decided to at
least play something for the guys. And so --
DICK: Well, they've -- some of them
appreciated it. Others I'm sure did not appreciate it.
But you know, that's -- you guys go ahead --
STEVE: Oh, yeah. E
DICK: -- and do whatever you want in terms
of playing music.
STEVE: The lyrics are what are very awesome.
I mean --
. DICK: Yeah. V
Ijg STEVE: -- very, very deep indiscernible! --
i DICK: Well, did you appreciate it in there?
I mean you liked it, didn't you? And that's all that's
important.
STEVE: Oh, yeah.
DICK: Because I know you did it for your,
tor the good of your folks in there.
STEVE: Yeah --
DICK: Let me talk to David. And let's try
to work this deal out.
STEVE: I'm, I'm trying to. Okay, let me see
' 0 52
again. Okay?
DICK: okay.STEVE: Can I talk to David? Unidentified
male voices in background not discernible.!
[989] .STEVE: He said it's so cold he'll --
End of tape 78.!
ll