Document text
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPE #llA
03/O2/93
O 2
DAVID: -- cut our lines off so I can't talk
to the radio programs. They're telling people that I'm
not communicating with them.
you all cut all our lines out.
HENRY: Did, did --
that?And the reason being is
was somebody working on
DAVID: Well, Jim said so. But you know, we
know what's going on.
HENRY: we want this thing to be resolved in
such a fashion that everybody
We don't want anybody else to
one. Number two, if you have
would like for you to --
DAVID: Okay. Wait
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
the tower? what?comes out of this fine.
get hurt. That's number
a message, we certainly
a second.
SPEAKER: Someone's in
DAVID: Someone's in the -- they're, they're
coming in.
HENRY: No, they are not coming in. There is
nobody anywhere close.
DAVID: Okay, look. Hey, wait a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: David was ~
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: David --
DAVID: What's he doing on the roof?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: What's he doing
on the roof --
O 3
HENRY: Who's on the roof?
DAVID: Wait a minute. It may be one of our
guys.
HENRY: It's got to be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: ~ lOOkS like
he's in -- it's one of the tower sentinels.
DAVID: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Oh, Shit.
HENRY: It's, it's got to be one of yours.
Because our people are not moving in. Nobody is. The
only, the only reason we're going to move in is --
DAVID: Wait a minute.
HENRY: - is to pick up the kids.
DAVID: Unidentified voice in background not
discernible.! What? Unidentified voice in background
not discernible.!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Tell him --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: They were just
going to shoot --
DAVID:
Harry?
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
said Jim,Okay.
Henry
Henry
That's
Okay.I'm sorry. What's your name,
I'm sorry.
okay, David.
Now I asked, I asked Jim, I
listen. If they'll let me present - I mean,
O Q 4
you know, this is our lives. You know, this depends on
how much you respect our lives. You know, if a man had
a -- let's say I was before a firing squad. You would
give me at least one last cigarette, wouldn't you?
HENRY: Absolutely.
DAVID: Okay. If you would just allow me to
show one or two seals on radio, you know, get people ~-
I mean, I know it's asking a lot from this system
today. You know everything costs money, air time and
all that. I'm, I'm aware of that.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: And I've spent thousands of dollars,
you know. I've been traveling and trying to get the
message out.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: If you'd just let me present, you
know, the seals the way I see them.
HENRY: Uh-huh.
DAVID: You know, then people would be able
to judge for themselves.
HENRY: I'll tell you what --
DAVID: And then based upon that, we can
arrange something to where we all come out.
HENRY: Okay. I will work on exactly that.
And you telling me, David, I'm trusting you. And I'm
putting myself totally in your hands that if I can
9 O
5
arrange to have you do that that everybody will come
out.
DAVID: What I'm saying is is this. I'm
saying that once I'm able to present this if you
individuals, if you don't cut me off and don't, you
know, don't do like what's been happening so far,
right, where everyone cuts me off. You know, hitting
me from the side with the questions that do not regard
the points I'm trying to make then we'll come out.
HENRY: You're telling me --
DAVID: I'm telling you --
HENRY: You are telling me and you're -- and
I'm holding you to your word that --
DAVID: IS that --
HENRY: -- if I can make arrangements to have
you talk to the radio and what I will do is I will work
on, on have you talking to, to a radio -- I'll tell you
what. We will -- what I'll do is I'll try to work on
getting you something totally and completely different
from anything that you've had before in such a fashion
that, that we can present this, and it will go out to a
lot of radio stations. How's that? would you be
willing to make a tape?
DAVID: A tape? It's better if I give it
live. I mean, you know, I don't need to make a tape.
Because, you know, like I say I'd like to hear it.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Make sure it's going, you know,
nationwide or whatever.
HENRY: Okay. Could you come out and do that
outside?
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
I'm --
DAVID
that.
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRYI can't move.
We'll --
I can do it on
-- we'll carry
N0.
I'm saying if,
No, see, therethe phone --
you out.
if you want to do
again we can't do
I'm, I'm -- I was just asking --
OD, OH --'
If you don't, okay.
DAVID:
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRYOn
On
On
Okay.
And you know --
Let me work ona telephone?the telephone.
the telephone.
that.i
if you wanted to do it that way
Okay, then get back with me. Okay
Okay.
0 7
DAVID: Because I indiscernible! I'm losing
by --
HENRY: Okay. Let me just ask you something.
We were working on getting some more kids out. Are you
ready to send a couple more kids out?
DAVID: Well, let's, let's work on this now.
And because this avenue like I told Jim, I said Jim,
you know, because he's supposed to be still working
with me. I - what did he do now?
HENRY: Well, he's, you know, he's been
forever. We're going to have to give him a little bit
of a break. You understand that?
DAVID: Yeah.
HENRY: Okay. And I'll and I promise to
work with you in the same fashion that he has. Now let
me, let me just propose a couple of things to you. You
consider them, okay?
DAVID: Okay.
HENRY: One of the things that I want to
propose is if we make a tape recording, one of the
things that we ensure is that nobody is going to
interrupt you with crazy questions or comments or
anything like that.
DAVID: Okay. What we'll do then is we'll,
we'll - maybe we can make a tape and a video. And
then maybe you can play that.
I Q 8
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
working on that,
this end.
DAVID:
something.
HENRY:
DAVID:
I'm coming from.
HENRY:
time so that I can, soNow do you have, do you have a video?
Yes, we have high eight.
Okay. Well, why don't you start
and I will start working on it from
Okay. All right, then we'll do
Okay. Now I'm going to a little --
That way at least you'll know where
I'm going to need a little bit of
that I can work on this. In the
meantime, can we get -
DAVID:
HENRY:
you ~~
DAVID:
spot figured out
HENRY:
DAVID:Okay.
some more children out or do
Let's just hold off until we get this
all right?
Okay.
I need, I need some - see, I gave, I
gave Jim some money, right?
HENRY:
DAVID:Yes. We have the money here.
And he was going to pick me up a
phone, because our phone's really pretty bad. A lot of
people use them and we needed, we needed a better line.
Okay? Because you know we're - I mean well, I can't
move, so we're long extension.
HENRY
DAVID
phone from, you
for it.
HENRY
DAVID
HENRYOkay.
And so if we can get a new line and
know, like I said I was going to pay
Okay.
Then we'd have better reception.
Okay. But do this for me, because
need to have these people, these bosses, you know,
they're always real pushy. You understand that?
DAVID: I realize ~
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: ~ you got a lot of chiefs there.
HENRY: Right. Send me two more kids while
we're working on this so that they can, you know --
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRY
DAVID
children like II'll do that.
Okay. Okay.
Okay?
So what I'll do is whenever you --
I'm glad you have a concern for the
do because I have --
HENRY: Yes. Okay. What we will do is I
will start working on this, okay. And it's either
going to be a video and the audio, or at least we're
going to get radio. But I'll get you something. Or
I'll go to work on getting you something. Okay?9
a
0 0
l0
DAVID: Yeah. Let's, let's - like I say
you'll, then you'll know, understand where I'm coming
from.
HENRY: Okay. But I want you to understand
okay, I'm going to hold you this. You're telling me
that -
DAVID:
HENRY:
everybody out. I
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
I'm going to send
DAVID:
HENRY:
Can we get the van over
DAVID:
HENRY:
now.
DAVID:
HENRY:
this and I
DAVID: Okayll call youI __
- that you're going to send
m going to want everybody out.
Okay.
Okay.
Do what you can though.
Okay. But send me a couple of kids
a car to pick up the two kids.
You got the van there now?
I'll send it, I'll send the van out
there?
Yeah, well, give me a call or --
Okay. The van is going there right
Okay.
And in the meantime, I'll work on
back in a little bit.
. Thanks.
HENRY: Thank you, David.
DAVID: Bye.
0 O
HENRY: Byebye.
[989]ll
:|<**
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Blew the
transmission.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Oh, good.
[9aP]
STEVE
HENRY
STEVE
HENRY
STEVE
DAVID:
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID***
Hello?
Hello, David?
This is Steve. Is this Henry?
Yes, Steve.
Henry ~- do you want to talk here?
Okay. You ready?
The car is ready to pick up the kids
Okay.
Do you have the kids ready?
Yeah.
Okay.
Why don't screaming in pain! ~~
Are you okay? Are you okay?
Oh, God. I'm back.
Are you okay?
I'm bleeding again.
Geez.
I coughed. Wait a minute.
Groaning.! Oh,
0
0 HENRY
0
0 DAVID
the back.
starts it
u0 HENRY
DAVID:
4
0 HENRY
DAVID:
HENRY:
you be interested
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
have to be you
HENRY:
DAVID:
they - oh, man.
guess he's about
Joshy?b
up againO 12
oy. It got me by surprise.
Um.
Got the one hole in the front, one in
And when I -~ if I laugh or if I cough it
Sure.
Groaning.! Boy. Okay.
which kids are you going --
When -- okay --
- are you going to send down? Would
in sending out --
Jamie. His name's Jamie and Joshua.
Who's, who -- how old are they?
Well, Jamie's an invalid. So you
got a special chair and all that.
Okay.
The social workers here in town
They know him. And Joshua, he's, I
- how old's Joshua now, 6? How old's
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Seven.
Joshua's 7.
DAVID: He's turned 6.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Joshua's 7.
DAVID: Oh, he's 7 now? Okay. He's 7.
HENRY: And Jamie?
O Q 13
DAVID: And Jamie he's --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Nine. Nine.
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
paper with them
to kin and, and
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
And, and so far
But we, we have
time. Can
could work
you have ayou make a -- do you have somethingHe's 9 but he's like 3, you know, 4.
Okay.
Okay?
Are they your kids?
N0.
Okay.
Okay. We'll send a little, little
you know, that tells you their closest
all that stuff, okay?
Okay.
Groaning.!
I presented, I presented the idea.
it's looking, you know, pretty good.
a bit of a problem in terms of the
that you
with so that you can make an audiotape? Do
recorder?
DAVID: Yeah, but I just can't get to it.
And it's, it's sophisticated.
HENRY: They can't bring it over to you?
DAVID: We can't, we can't do a little video?
HENRY: Well, see, what we're hoping to do
and, and because this is a serious situation, okay.
DAVID: Yeah, it's very serious.
U 14
HENRY: We're hoping to, to get this to a
serious Christian broadcasting network type national,
you know, broadcasting network that
give us maybe, you know, nationwide
thing.
DAVID: Uh~huh.
HENRY: And if we talk in
by the time we get it from here to,
DAVID: To have it edited
to --
HENRY: Yeah.
DAVID: to 10 - is it
millimeter, 30, 33, 35 millimeter.
HENRY: Um-hum. Um-hum.
DAVID:would, that would
coverage on this
terms of a video,
to --
transferred over
10 -- I forgot what
Anyway, yeah.
I know what you're saying.
HENRY: So if, if -- do you -- if we could,
if we could --
DAVID: Steve, how many, how many -- do you
know where -- do you think we could break down the
studio and bring some, you know, take out of the rack
and bring some indiscernible! and stuff recorder in.
Because we need to do an unedited, high fidelity tape.
Okay.
STEVE: Get Greg.
DAVID: Okay.
STEVE: Greg would know how to do it,
9 I .5
wouldn't he?
DAVID: Yeah. I can't get down there to it
so. Yeah, that's what we'll do.
HENRY: Okay. And you know how everybody's
concerned about money. And I mean everybody is, has a
concern. Can you do me a favor, and can you make it,
you know, like in such a fashion that, that in order to
avoid their wanting to chop it up or to play part of it
or whatever
DAVID:
air time?
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
keep --
DAVID
HENRY
there's --
DAVID
HENRYHow much, how much does it cost their
Well, that's the
Per minute?
That's the whole
How much does it
I don't have anywhole thing.
thing. You know, so
cost?
idea. But
Give me the price and I'll pay it.
Oh, I don't have any idea. I have no
idea. But what I'd like to do is I would like for you
to make it as concise and as brief as you can make it
so that we can be in a situation where your word will,
will get out. Nothing will be chopped off. Your
message will go out as you want it, you know.
DAVID: Well, like I say remember I'll even
O 1,
buy the time. You know?
HENRY: Well, you know, we don't need --
DAVID: We will fund it.
HENRY: -- we don't need that. We ~ what we
want is we want you to ~ you were given your
cooperation, and that's what we promised what we would
do. So I want to live up to my part of it. Yeah, I
don't need your money. But I do need -~
Touch tone sounds.!
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVIDHello? Hello?
Jesus.
Hello?
Hello.
Hello. What's going on now?
Who was that?
Yeah. Unidentified voice in
background not discernible.!
HENRY: What -- you know, what I, what I
would like to see is I would like for you to, to
prepare yourself in such a fashion that you get your
message out and --
DAVID: Okay, wait a second.
HENRY: Now, I'm a little bit confused about
one thing. Okay? I, I know that you're, that you are
a man of your word number one. And number two, I know
that you know what you're talking about in terms of
Q O .7
theology. I'm not as -- I'm not nearly versed as you
are, okay? But one of the concerns that I have is I am
taking you to your word and that is that you're going
to come out and that everybody is going to come out and
this thing is going to be resolved without anybody ~-
DAVID: Getting hurt.
HENRY: Getting hurt. That includes you.
DAVID: Except for what crimes we have to pay
for what we've committed that is that. The world so
speaks.
HENRY: And that includes you. Am I correct
in assuming that --
DAVID: No, it's not an assumption. It's a
fact.
HENRY: Okay. Everybody's going to come out,
and everybody's going to be fine, and there's going to
be no shooting, and there's going to be nothing to, to
cause anybody to do anything to hurt you. I don't want
anybody to hurt you. Am I, am I correct in my
assumption?
DAVID: You're correct on that.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: So let's, let -- I got to start
editing this and, and you got the van down there for
the children, right?
HENRY: Yes .
9 .8
DAVID: Okay. Be sure and tell them we're
coming then, all right?
HENRY: Okay. Now, now listen, listen to
what I'm going to tell you. I don't know if this van
is going to stop in exactly the same place as the other
van. It's going to be real close. The only reason
that I'm telling you that is whoever's going to take
the kids there, you know, these are two new people,
because we've had a changing of a shift, okay? So --
DAVID
towers --
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRYOkay. But just at the water
Right. Right.
-- like it was before.
But, but I mean, you know, they may
be 20 feet back or, or 5 feet forward from where they
parked before. I don't want her to get a concern,
whoever it is that's taking them there well, it's, they
didn't park in exactly the same place. Nothing's --
DAVID: Okay.
HENRY: -- going to happen other than what
has happened before.
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
ready and --
HENRYYou got a radio communication, right?
Right.
Okay. Like I say, we'll get the kids
Right.
DAVID
HENRY
need is I would
medical help.
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY9 1.
Are they down there now?
Yes. Now what, what we're going to
like to try to start trying to find you
No, not yet.
Okay.
Let's get the other done.
Yes, we'll get - no, I mean that's
fine. And I understand that. And I'm not saying, you
know, I'm going to send anybody in there. I want start
preparing to have something ready for you after you do
your tape and all of that. Okay?
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID:
the kids.
HENRY
DAVID
up.
HENRY
DAVIDOkie doke.
Okay.
Okay. Now I need to -- going to send
Okay.
He's going to get the equipment set
Okay.
I'm going to drink a little orange
juice, get my breath up a bit. When I, when I cough,
oh, man. I'll tell you. Anyway never mind.
HENRY: How much time do you think you have?
DAVID: Well, see it's, it's like I get, I
get renewed.
U 20
HENRY: Uh-huh.
DAVID: YOU know, and then, you know, the
pain and all of a sudden I get where it's like
something's developing in my chest. It's like -- I
don't know. It's, it's kind of like a - it's not a
cold it's --
HENRY: Like an infection?
DAVID: I don't know if it's an infection or
not. It's just -- I don't know. It's just a -- it's
kind of like you know how you feel when you feel like
you're fixing to get the flu?
HENRY: YGS
DAVID: Something like that.
HENRY: Well, are you sure you, are you
sure --
DAVID: You
HENRY: Are
send you some medical
DAVID: N0,
HENRY: Okayknow, you go up and down.
you sure you don't want us to
help?
not yet. Let's, let's --
DAVID: -- we're on a good road right now.
That's what I've been
HENRY: Okaytrying to --
DAVID: -- that's what I was trying to work
with Jim all along.
HENRY: Okay
l
92U 2.
DAVID: You know, I was trying to get a trust
in him to see if he would, you know, really let me get
these kids out, you know, the way I wanted to get them
out.
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRYOkay.
And he's been very good to me.
Okay. Well --
And --
-- we want to, we want to continue in
that same vein. We don't want to change anything or,
or make anything in such a fashion, you know. And when
you kept telling me that there was somebody in that
tower or in the roof, I knew that there wasn't anybody,
you know, because --
DAVID: We found out what it was.
HENRY: Okay. Well, we appreciate, you know,
we appreciate your trusting us. We continue to trust
you.
DAVID: Groaning.!
HENRY: We want to continue working in this
fashion. I would like, I would for, you know, [gap] I
would like for you to start working on that, that tape,
and I will work with you, and I want you to work with
H18.
DAVID: Okie doke. Okay. Let me get off the
phone then. And the kids will be down there in just a
" I 22
second, all right?
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRY
[gap]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: and I'mOkay.
Okie doke?
Okay.
Okay, thanks.
Umhum.
:k*k
getting ready for that.
Okay. wait one moment. I'll give you to Steve
Henry[9aP]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER Hello°"k*>92'
HENRY: Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER Yeah
HENRY: This is Henry?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER Th1S 1S Henry
HENRY: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER Steve Steve
STEVE
HENRY
STEVE
HENRY
STEVEHello?
Hi, Steve. Steve?
Yes.
This is Henry.
Oh, hi, Henry.
HENRY
STEVE
HENRY
STEVE
HENRYQ .3
How are you doing?
I'm on the tired side. Little bit --
Oh, I guess so.
-- little bit slow tonight.
Okay. Couple of things I wanted to
bring up. David mentioned that he was going to try to
do that audiotape. Is he working on that?
STEVE: You know what, I, I just about 2
minutes ago I was going to go lay down for a few
minutes, and I went past him and he was almost snoring.
He, he fell asleep.
HENRY
STEVE
HENRY
STEVEOh, he did?
Yeah.
Okay.
So are you working on that? Or I
mean I -- or I mean have you checked or found out
anything about it or --
HENRY: Well, he said he was going to try to,
to give us a, a tape. And he had asked somebody to try
to go and get some equipment from --
STEVE: Okay. Yeah, I, I see --
HENRY: -- the recording studio.
STEVE: I see something is here right now.
So that's apparently what it's part of.
HENRY: Okay. Is, is he -- I really have a
concern because he was, you know, he was in, in great
A
9 2.
pain and agony, you know, when I was talking to him
earlier.
STEVE: Uhhuh.
HENRY: And, but, you know, part of the
problem is like he said every time that he coughs or
laughs or something like that that he feels that he
starts bleeding again.
STEVE: He said that?
HENRY: Yes, he, he did. And the problem is
if he is feeling if there is internal bleeding, see,
when, when that coagulates, that's going to cause him
some serious problems. It's been a long time since,
since he suffered that wound, and we need to try to get
him some medical help.
STEVE: Well [gap] for, for what they're
telling me I guess -- hello?
HENRY: Yes [gap].
STEVE: [gap] Oh, something -- I don't know
what's - what's happening I wonder?
HENRY: Yeah.
STEVE: Is that at your end or --
HENRY: No, it's probably at your end.
STEVE: Well, there's nobody around the, the
phone here. I don't get it.
HENRY: Uhhuh.
STEVE: I'm looking around here right now.
4-.
¢ 0 ..
Okay. It sounds actually better. I don't know what --
it kind of cleared up or something here.
HENRY: Umhum.
STEVE: Okay. Okay, you were, you were
saying, yeah. Oh, I tell you what. I'm just so worn
out I'm having a hard time even talking here.
HENRY: Okay. Well, let me, let me say this.
The, the two -- or the lady that brought the, the last
two kids indicated that their car is almost out of
gasoline.
STEVE: Oh, it is.
HENRY: So she said or she asked if we could
bring some gasoline on the next, you know, when we do
the next exchange. Can you get a couple of kids ready
so we can pick them up and --
STEVE: Yeah, let, let me find out then. I
guess I haven't been with it just too long here. I was
starting to lay down there and I was - let me find out
what they're doing, and I'll try to do that, okay?
HENRY: Okay.
STEVE: Just a minute.
HENRY: Okay.
[gap]
STEVE: Just a minute.
[gap]
STEVE: Henry?
.-us.
HENRY:
STEVE:
the tape thing o
HENRY:
we encountered s
STEVE:
HENRY
is most serious
STEVE:
HENRY:
the same fashion
STEVE:
HENRY:
we're trying to
Christian Broadc
STEVE:
Network?
HENRY:U 2.
Yes.
So have you made progress with doing
r -_
Yes. As a matter of fact, I mean we,
ome difficulty but, but --
Yeah.
What we're trying to do is because he
about this --
Uh-huh.
-- we're trying to react in exactly
Yeah.
And what we're trying to work out is
get him some time on the National
asting Network.
The National Christian Broadcasting
Yes, which has several thousand radio
stations throughout the country.
STEVE:
o
n HENRY
Arizona.
STEVE
HENRY
But when we callOkay.
Now that is, is based in Phoenix,
In Phoenix, Arizona.
But, you know, their headquarters.
ed out there, there's nobody there, so
we sent agents out to go to the people's house and get
them out of bed
STEVE:
HENRY
u
0 STEVE
yet tonight or
0
0 HENRY
record the, the
STEVE
HENRY
STEVE
HENRY
him to his word,
least four times
STEVE:
HENRY:CU 2.
or wherever they're at --
Uhhuh.
-- so that we can initiate this.
I see. So was he wanting to do that
Well, he wanted to he was going to
assette for us.
Uhhuh.
And then he assured me.
Yeah.
And I told him I was going to hold
but he assured me not once but at
Uh-huh.
that, that once we did that,
everybody was coming out.
STEVE: I see. Could you be careful of the
cord there? I think that's maybe what the problem is.
Someone was bumping into this the cord in the phone
is bad.
HENRY
STEVE:
there. Hello?
HENRY
STEVEOh, okay.
Okay. Yeah. Careful. Careful
Yes.
Okay. Okay. Let me see. And then
we're -- right now, he's fallen asleep. I see they
9 0 .8
brought a couple of the things. Is there any way I
could leave him maybe sleep for 1 hour?
HENRY: Okay. But, but I have a concern,
Steve. And the --
STEVE: Yeah.
HENRY: -- concern that I have, you know, is
that, you know, his health may be deteriorating. Okay,
so --
STEVE: There's, there's -- right now there's
a nurse over here. And she says leave him sleep for
the moment --
HENRY: Okay.
STEVE: -- just to regain, regain at least a
little strength here.
HENRY: Okay. That's --
STEVE: And then she said she wants there
herself asking if, if they can't do something in that
area. She was just whispering over here to me. So I,
I think between her and I we're going to ask them about
that, you know, getting that kind of attention or
something, or see if there's more that could be done to
help out there.
HENRY: Okay. Okay. And we are ready to
provide that, but --
STEVE: Okay.
HENRY: -- we're going to have to take him
I "l 29
out of there.
STEVE: Uhhuh.
HENRY: Okay? And I want you to be thinking
in terms because at some point the responsibility, you
know, for the entire group is probably going to shift
to your shoulders, Steve.
STEVE: I see.
HENRY: And, and, you know, I know there's an
awful lot of people there. A lot of children.
STEVE: Right.
HENRY: We want to between you and us,
between you and me, we need to try to coordinate this
so that we can effect what --
STEVE: Right.
HENRY: - David and I initiated and that is
everybody's coming out.
STEVE: Okay. Is there any way then - can,
can you call me back in an hour?
HENRY: Sure.
STEVE: Oh, that would be great. Because I
think what I'm going to do is even lay down here, and
I'm going to have somebody here wake me up then. Or
if, if the phone rings, I'm just going to make sure
that I hear it just so I don't fall off too deeply in
sleep or something.
HENRY: Okay.
|' 30
STEVE: Okay.
HENRY: Now let me just ask you this. Can we
get a couple of kids so that we can go ahead and, and
give you the gasoline for that car that, that that lady
was asking about?
STEVE: Well, she said he never -- he passed
out before he gave the next couple that were to be
going. So I don't know what to really do right now.
Can, can we just wait for 1 hour?
HENRY: Okay. Does --
STEVE: And then, and call me and I'm going
to have them at least have, you know, a number of them
ready so that he can just say well, you know, these two
are going next then.
HENRY: Okay.
STEVE: Yeah. I'm -- oh, I tell you what. I
mean I'm, I'm so tired. Last night I went through the
whole night. And I, I never got to sleep at all. I
laid down --
HENRY
STEVE
HENRY
STEVE
HENRY
STEVEYou must be exhausted.
Oh, I am.
Okay.
Henry, thanks much.
Okay.
I, I mean I know you're really trying
there. I, I can tell. And I really do appreciate it.
HENRY:
STEVE:
about an hour.
HENRY:
STEVE:
HENRY:
STEVE:Q 3.
Um-hum.
So I'm going to conk out here for
And please call me back.
Okay. One other thing.
Okay.
Did you need a phone cord?
I -- yeah. when you call me back,
then I'll mention that again. I guess we - I think he
said that, didn'
HENRY:
cord it is that
STEVE:
with you.
HENRY:
things.
STEVE:
HENRY:
back to you.
STEVE:
HENRY:
STEVE:
HENRY:
RACHEL
HENRY:
RACHELt he?
Yeah, but I'm not sure what kind of a
he wants.
I'm not certain either to be honest
Okay. Okay. Well, check on those
Okay.
You know, in about an hour I'll be
Thank you much.
Thank you, Steve.
Okay. Yeah. Bye.
Bye-bye.
***
: Hello?
Hello?
: Hello?
HENRY:
RACHEL
am I talking to?
HENRY:
RACHEL
you.
HENRY:
RACHEL
HENRY:
RACHEL
HENRY:
RACHEL
HENRY:
RACHEL
HENRY:
RACHEL
he's --
HENRY:
RACHEL
HENRY:
that's, that's t
RACHEL
HENRY:
RACHEL
HENRY:
RACHELThis is Henry. Who's this?
: Just a minute. Steve. Steve. Who
This is Henry. Who's this.
: I'm sorry. I couldn't understand
Henry.
: Henry.
Who's this?
: Oh, it's Rachel.
Hi, Rachel. How you doing?
: Okay.
How's everybody doing in there?
: I guess okay.
How's David?
: well, he looks okay. Looks like
He looks okay?
: Looks like he's sleeping.
Okay. who is the nurse in there
aking care of him?
: which nurse is it?
Yeah.
: I don't know.
Are you a nurse?
: N0.32
" " 33
HENRY: Okay. Is there more than one nurse
in there?
RACHEL: I think there's a few, but I don't
know who, which one is which.
HENRY: Uh-huh. Well, you know, we have a
concern. And we wanted to see if we could talk to her
so that ~
RACHEL: Looks like she's waking up.
HENRY: Oh, okay.
RACHEL: Here.
[gap]
DAVID: This Harry?
HENRY: David?
DAVID: Yeah. Is this Harry?
HENRY: This is Henry.
DAVID: Henry. Oh - sorry.
HENRY: How are you doing?
DAVID: Okay.
HENRY: Are you in pain?
DAVID: Gasping.! Oh, it's almost a funny
question. But, oh, wait a second. Let me look --
okay. All right. Are the children there yet?
HENRY: Yes, they are. You want to talk to
them?
DAVID: Yeah. See. Rachel? Could you,
could you get Larry? Is Larry asleep or - could you
O Q 34
get Rachel, Larry and --
RACHEL: -- asleep.
DAVID: Course, little Jamie can't talk so.
HENRY: Um-hum. We want to confirm that
you're going to be making that tape, okay?
DAVID
rest --
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
Do you -- I don0
o
0
0
0
0
'tYeah. I was just trying to get some
Yeah.
to get my strength up.
Okay. Okay. I can understand that.
know if Steve had a chance to, to
talk to you. But, you know, we're working something
out. And because, because you are serious, very
serious about this, we want to approach it from the
same, you know, with that same seriousness. Okay?
DAVID: Oh, yeah.
HENRY: And what we'd like to do is we are
trying to not present this to somebody that's, that's
going to take it lightly but rather whom we are trying
to contact as a matter of fact as we speak is the
National Christian Broadcasting Network. Okay?
DAVID: All right.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: All right. Okay. Where's,
where's -- which - where is that located at?
HENRY: They're based out of Arizona. I
O I .5
think it's in, I think it's in Phoenix. And they
have --
DAVID: What's the subsidiary station here
locally?
HENRY: That I don't know. I know that they
have several thousand radio stations throughout the
country. But, you know --
DAVID: The station everybody's listening to
right now is KRLD, right?
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
number one that
DAVID:
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRY
exposure.
DAVID:
HENRYYeah. But that's, that's local.
I know --
We're trying to get you something
s religious.
Exactly.
That's, that's serious.
Exactly.
Number two that has national
Okay.
Now the -- you know, as you know,
that one of, one of the concerns that I have is here
you are very serious, okay. And some of these people
are calling you
they're calling
you don't like.
DAVID:- I don't even want to tell you what
you. Okay? I mean it's something that
Okay? So I thought it would be --
No, okay. I just - I got what
0 O ..
you're saying just --
HENRY: Okay. So we want to have something
that, you know, that you're going
Because it's considered a serious
Okay? So we -- I
in Arizona, and we couldn't get ato be pleased with.
religious network.
mean, we called this national network
hold of anybody. So
what we did is we called our FBI office in Phoenix, and
as we speak they're waking up the people that are in
charge of this.
DAVID:
HENRY:
sure that it is.
DAVID:
HENRY:It's not a 24-hour radio
Well, I'm not sure about
What, what --
I shouldn't say I'm sure
But, but the people that we were trying to
head people, weren't around. So --
DAVID:
HENRY:
the home. Okay?
DAVID:
HENRY:Oh, I see. Yeah.station?
that. I'm
that it is.
contact, the
-- so they, they sent people out to
Right.
And when I was talking to Steve, he
was a little bit confused about what you wanted. so --
DAVID:
It's not going to
HENRY:
DAVID:Okay. We're going to make this tape.
be a long one.
Okay.
And we're going to put something
i
i
92
929 0 .7
together very tangible, very simple, very even and
begin to show the difference between the way I perceive
the seals and what, in, in difference to what we've
heard the seals being presented thus far by all so-
called teachers and religious leaders that have been
calling the radio stations.
HENRY: Uh-huh.
DAVID: So that way people will be able to
honestly listen and read their Bibles as they're
listening and see that I know what I'm talking about.
HENRY: Exactly.
DAVID: And then they'll make a decision from
what they themselves have seen and heard from their own
Bible. And then like I say, then I'm in your hands.
HENRY: Okay. One of the concerns that I
have, okay, is I'm talking to some people, some medical
people. And what -- I don't like what I'm hearing.
And what I'm hearing is that, you know, remember when
we were talking earlier and you coughed, okay. You
told me that you thought that you might be bleeding.
If you --
DAVID: Yeah, when I cough I bleed.
HENRY: Okay. Now do you, do you think that
you're bleeding internally? Probably, right?
DAVID: Well, the hole is right here next to
the belly. And it, it hit me in the, the pelvic, and
then it somehow
towards my back
HENRY
DAVID:
the front.
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY9 3.
traced around and went out kind of
There was a hole in the back --
Whispering.! My God.
-- that was bigger than the hole in
Yeah. Well, see --
And then the --
what, what I'm, what I'm being told
is that when you're hemorrhaging and then you're blood
clots, okay, it creates a problem, because internally
somebody's going to have to deal with it. You've
been - this is a long time ago that this occurred. We
need to try to move things along so that you can get
some medical assistance before you start having a lot
of difficulty, you know, and, and you start going into
shock or something like that.
DAVID: Well, I was in shock when I first got
hit I thought.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: But like I say when -- I'm going to
make this tape and, and I'm going to - when we send
the kids out to you I'm going to send that tape with
them. And you'll just have to -- this will play, this
will play tomorrow sometimes, right?
HENRY: Well, we can play it whenever you
want. If you want we can play it now. Or we can, we
9 O 3.
can go -
DAVID: Well --
HENRY: - you know, we can play it tomorrow.
Tomorrow
problem,
National
KRLD. I
whomever you want.
DAVID:
national coverage
HENRY: Sure.
DAVID:will be fine. Now, you know, if you have a
if you have or if you're not happy with the
Christian Broadcasting Network, we can go to
mean I don't have any problems going with
Well, that's like I say if it's a
then other stations will pick it up.
And KRLD will probably more than
happy want to play it. Because they've, they've been
wondering what's happened to me anyway.
HENRY: Okay. well, I don't have any
problems making them a copy and giving them a copy or
whatever you'd like.
DAVID: would you, would
correction for KRLD and then those
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Let's see. They
eight kids out. Let's see, we gotyou make a
things for me?
keep saying we have
1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10,
12, 14, 16 children. And they need to, they need to
understand we got 16 children out.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: And there's a whole lot more as
9 0 .0
you'll find out. And your all's records were really
wrong when you numbered the amount of people here and
stuff. And, and, you know, I'd like to hear that on
the radio that there was 18 of them gotten out so far.
That's Lahara, Renee, Angelica, Crystal, Camaray
phonetic sp.!, Landon,
kind of blurry.
SHERRY
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:Jake, let's see, my eyes are
Ryan.
Ryan, yeah.
Okay. Give me the names again.
Let me, let me get this --
Lahara.
- closer to, to me. Just read it
off to me there, Sherry, would you? The, the ones that
we've sent out so far. Okay. Unidentified voices in
background not discernible.! Okay, wait a second.
Slow down, all right? Okay. Lahara.
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:Lahara.
Okay. You already got that down?
Umhum.
Renee.
Renee.
Okay. Angelica.
Angelica.
Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Crystal.
that are marked off. Unidentified female voice in
background not discernible.! Those others on the other
sideO Q 41
DAVID: Crystal.
HENRY: Crystal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER:
DAVID: Camaray.
HENRY: Camaray.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
DAVID: Landon.
HENRY: Landon.
DAVID: Yeah. The next one
HENRY: Jake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
DAVID: Ryan.
HENRY: Brian.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
DAVID: Joshua.
HENRY: Joshua.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
DAVID: Jamie.
HENRY: Jamie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
DAVID: No. The other ones
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Oh, JanessaSPEAKER
SPEAKER
SPEAKER
SPEAKER
SPEAKER
DAVID: Okay. Janessa.Camaray
Landon.
s Jake.
Ryan.
Joshua.
Jamie.
And --
- all the ones
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVIDI .2
Janessa.
Patron.
Patron.
Yeah. Keep going. Unidentified
voices in background not discernible.! Let me see.
Let me see that list. Groaning.! Okay. Oh, are you
saying these here are listed twice?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah.
DAVID: No, they're not. No, these are the
first ones we sent out. That's why they wrote the
names over there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: - we listed
them indiscernible!.
DAVID: No, you didn't. There's Chrissy.
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVIDChrissy.
Brian.
Brian.
Scott.
Scott.
Jake.
Jake.
And you already got Joshua and Jamie.
So that's - unidentified female voice in background
not discernible! -- 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, -- okay, 6, 7,
8, 9 - all we've been saying anyway how many --
HENRY: I, I think we only have 14. I think
9 0 ..
you said 16, but I think we have 14.
DAVID: Oh, boy. I tell you. I mean, I may
be corrected on them. But like I say, I got a big long
list here and --
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: -- we're marking them off little by
little and okay. All right. So -- groaning! --
all right, then so I'm going to start -- where's,
where's Greg and them? They still -- where's Steve?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Sleeping.
DAVID: Is he sleeping around the corner?
Oh, anyway. Here, here Larry. Here's -- this guy will
let you talk to Josh.
LORRAINE: Hello?
HENRY: Hello?
LORRAINE: Hello? This is Joshua's mother.
HENRY: Oh, okay. Hold on a second. Let me
get --
LORRAINE: Okay. Thank you.
HENRY: What's your name?
LORRAINE: Lorraine.
HENRY: Lorraine? Okay. Hold on, Lorraine.
Let me get the - Joshua. How are you doing?
LORRAINE: I'm doing fine. Thank you.
HENRY: Good.
[<3aP]
on just a
right?O I 4,
HENRY: He's coming right up, Lorraine. Hold
second.
LORRAINE: Okay.
HENRY: Whispering.! Say hi.
JOSHUA:
LORRAINE
JOSHUA:
LORRAINE
JOSHUA:
LORRAINE
JOSHUA:
LORRAINE
JOSHUA:
LORRAINE
Unidentified male
discernible.!
JOSHUA:
LORRAINEHi.
Hi, honey. You doing okay?
Yeah.
Okay. You be a good soldier, all
Okay.
Okay. I love you, honey.
Okay.
Okay, sweetheart.
Bye.
Bye. Yeah, they'll feed you.
voice in background not
What?
Yeah, he knows that. He already
said they won't feed me no -- yeah, you tell them no
pork, honey, right? Do you hear Mommy?
okay?JOSHUA: Uh-huh.
LORRAINE: Okay, sweetheart. Be a good boy,
JOSHUA: Okay.
LORRAINE: Okay. I love you. Wait, hang on
C Q 45
a sec. Huh? Hey, are you seeing the rest of the kids?
Did you get to play with them?
JOSHUA: NO.
LORRAINE: No? Oh, maybe you will. What,
what about the other kids that left? You didn't see
them?
JOSHUA: Uh-uh.
LORRAINE: The ones that just left, no?
Okay. Well, maybe you'll see them. Okay, you going to
take the phone back, David? Okay, sweetheart. Put the
man back on, okay?
JOSHUA: Okay.
LORRAINE: I love you very much.
JOSHUA: Bye.
LORRAINE: Byebye, darling.
HENRY: Lorraine?
LORRAINE: Yes?
HENRY: Oh, okay.
LORRAINE: Okay, I'm going to put David back
on, okay?
HENRY: That's fine.
LORRAINE: Okay. Thank you.
HENRY: Thank you. Unidentified female
voice in background not discernible.!
DAVID: Okay. All right, thanks. Okay.
HENRY: David, one of the things that we need
9 Q .6
to work out if, if we can is we have -- when we made
that last exchange the ladies that brought the, the
kids over said that their car was running out of
gasoline, and they wondered if we could get them some
gasoline.
DAVID: Wait a second.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Said something about their car being
out of gasoline? Oh, it is? Unidentified voices in
background not discernible.! Oh that, that little car,
you know, it goes a long ways just on a well, we --
she said --
HENRY: So what --
DAVID: -- that she talked to the girl, Mary.
But the thing of it is, is that -- how low is, how
close to empty is it? Unidentified female voice in
background not discernible.!
HENRY: David?
DAVID: Yes.
HENRY: What, what we've done is we've gotten
a, you know, 5, 5 gallons worth of gasoline. We got a
gas tank full of --
DAVID: Oh.
HENRY: And when they, we make the next
exchange we'll just fill it up. We'll, we'll pour the
5 gallons of gasoline in the car. Okay?
I Q 4,
DAVID: Okay. All right. Thanks. I
appreciate that.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: I don't - well, it's too late to get
a phone now so.
HENRY: What?
DAVID: Oh, we see we have a lot of --
what we had to do is because I couldn't move and our
phone was, was way down in a different part of the
building, we had to scrounge up all kinds of phone
cords and piece them together to stretch them across
the building to, to get to where I am.
HENRY: Uhhuh.
DAVID: So we could have a phone here.
HENRY: Oh, okay, so you need a ~
DAVID: So I had asked, I had, you know, I
had sent some money to Jim, and I'd asked him, you
know, to, you know, take care of the kids with that.
But --
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: - I'd also asked him to if he could
if he could just like have someone pick up, you know,
half, you know, nothing real fancy, just a straight
phone from Radio Shack or something with approximately
150 feet or so of, of telephone cable.
HENRY: Okay. Well, that's -- you know, I, I
C Q 48
have a note here to get, to get a telephone cord. I
didn't know what exactly that was.
DAVID: Yeah.
HENRY: Okay. That's what you need. You,
you need --
DAVID: Yeah. Not the, the kind that twist
around and around, you know, the, the straight stuff,
you know. I need a lot of it. And the longer pieces
we can get the better, because then we don't have so
many connections we have to make.
HENRY: Okay. Now you want that -- that's
like, like an inside cord, right?
DAVID: Yes, sir.
HENRY: Okay. Let me work on that. I'll
probably get that as soon as, as --
DAVID: They've got it at Radio Shack.
They've got like, you know, they even got like 50 feet
sections, you know. So --
HENRY: Okay. Let me ask you this. When I
spoke to Steve he was, he was concerned, you know,
about your health as we all are, okay? But he's -- he
has a concern about making any decisions. Are you
trying to prepare him -- do you think it might be wise
to, to is somebody calling? Hello?
DAVID: Hello?
HENRY: Yeah. That is Steve -- are you
' O 49
working towards preparing Steve to take over some of
the responsibility? Because I feel that you're getting
weaker, okay? And, and you have a lot of
responsibility on your shoulders, okay?
DAVID: Well, that's what I was telling Jim.
I was telling Jim, I said look, Jim, I teach my
students from the very first day that they meet me I
tell them, I say hey, look, do you want to learn the
seals? And they don't even know what that is at first,
most of them. So I tell them look, would you like to
learn something about Jesus Christ --
End of tape.!
U O 1
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPE #llB HENRY GARCIA
03/O2/93
FREE STATE REPORTING , INC .
Court Reporting Dcpositions
D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 10! 974-0947
i
Q O 2
RITA:
HENRY
RITA:
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
it's --
HENRY
DAVID
it done. It's,
HENRY
really - I don
DAVID
HENRY
DAVIDi
' tHello?
Rita?
Just a minute, please.
Hello?
Hello?
How are you doing?
I'm, I'm trying to finish up. I mean
You making progress?
Oh, yeah. I'm trying, trying to get
t's raining outside, isn't it?
Well, I'm inside of a room. I can't
have a window.
Well, that's, that's heavy rain.
Is that right?
Yeah. Okay, yeah. Let me finish
this up, and I'll get right with you. Call me in about
another 15 minutes, okay? We should --
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRYu
oAbout --
- be finished.
In about 15 minutes?
Right.
Okay. You -- and we're still on-line
for the rest of the stuff. That is I mean we still
have the two women and, and two, and two kids that
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O O 3
will --
DAVID
it.
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
match.Right. Yeah, they said they'll do
Okay. Okay.
Okie doke?
Okay.
Okay. Let me get back on this then.
Okay. Very good.
Oh, boy. I feel like I did a boxing
HENRY: Okay. Now try to keep it short
because, you know, the, these people are not going to
want to play something that's real long, okay?
DAVID: Okie doke .
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: I mean how long do they want it to
be?
HENRY: Well, you know, remember the, the
thing that you did for Jim before?
DAVID
HENRY
you --
DAVID
HENRYHow long was that?
About half a page or so. You know,
Oh, that?
You, you don't have to make it that
short. But you know ~-
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DAVID: All right.
HENRY: But, but don't make it like a half
hour or something like that.
DAVID: Like I said, I have to make it- at
least wanted to make the point, okay?
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Okay, thanks.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Okay, bye.
HENRY: I'll talk to you later. Bye.
>1: * k
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: IS that all
right?
RECORDED MESSAGE: We're sorry. Your call
did not go through. Will you please hang up and try
your call again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #1: Okay, now. I
mean I'll check on --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #2: Are they, are
they in --
* 9c *
DAVID: Hello?
HENRY: Hello, David?
DAVID: Yeah.
HENRY: How are you doing?
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DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVIDO Q 5
We -- it's there.
Okay. Is the tape done?
Yeah.
Okay.
Is the - have they left yet? Have
they left yet? Unidentified voice in background not
discernible.! Wait one second. Have they left yet?
is?
know --
simple and directUNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yes.
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVIDOkay. You got them yet down there?
NO.
Well, they, they should be there.
who has the tape?
The older lady, Katherine.
Do you know about how long the tape
It's almost an hour.
An hour?
Almost.
You know, you realize that, you
Well, that's, that's -- I made it a
as possible. I couldn't get away
with any less than that.
mean --HENRY: You realize that I may not be able, I
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DAVID: I'll pay them.
HENRY: I, I --
DAVID: How much do they want?
HENRY: I, I --
DAVID: I'll pay for the time.
HENRY: I understand what you're saying. I
don't have control over that. What I, what I'll do is
I'll do the best that I can. But I want you to
understand that if it comes out chopped up, it has
nothing to do with me. You know we're, we --
DAVID: Well, have, have - look. It's -
HENRY: I'll, I'll work on it. You know, and
I'll work very hard for you. You know that. Because I
want, I want to resolve this as just as much as you do.
DAVID: Yeah. This --
HENRY: You know that.
DAVID: This tape, like I say, if it's
played, you know, everything, everything's going to be
all right, you know. Because it's like I say it's, it
introduces so perfectly, you know, what the whole, how
the whole story got started. And I'll --
HENRY: Uhhuh.
DAVID: It, it tells the whole story.
HENRY: Okay. Now do --
DAVID: S0 --
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I I ,
HENRY: - do we have somebody at the front
door?
DAVID: Where they, where they at now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: At the front
door --
DAVID: Rich, could you look out and see
where they're at?
HENRY: Is Wayne at the front door?
Unidentified female voice in background not
discernible.!
DAVID: Okay. They, they left several
minutes ago.
HENRY: They did?
DAVID: Okay. The, the children have their,
they have their -- they have their name tags and stuff
They -- and got their name tags and close of kin,
right? Okay. Oh, boy.
HENRY: Do you know who's coming?
DAVID: Yeah. It's, it's oh, the two ladies
are, one's name is Katherine.
HENRY: Katherine.
DAVID: Yes. Other's name is -- what's the
other lady's name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Margaret.
DAVID: Margaret.
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0 0 8
HENRY
DAVID:
0
o HENRY
DAVID:
Daniel --
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
-0 HENRY
first of all, I
and effort that
secondly, we're
KRLD as soon as
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRY
will, I will see
I can for you.
because of the lMargaret?
Yes, sir.
Okay.
And the two children's name is
Daniel.
And Kimmie.
Kenny?
Kimmie.
Okay, Kimmie.
Little girl.
Okay. Okay. Now what I'll do is
thank you for, you know, for the time
you put into this thing. Okay? And
going to try to make this available to
possible.
All right.
Okay? But --
We're listening to KRLD right now.
Okay. Well, okay. What I'll do is I
how things work out. I'll do the best
I can't guarantee anything on this
ength of the tape. So please don't be
upset at me because, you know, we'll just do the best
that we can. U nidentified voice in background not
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discernible.!
DAVID: which maybe they took Misty's car?
HENRY: I'm sorry?
DAVID: They're out there. Unidentified
voices in background not discernible.! which car did
they take?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Well, which car
did they take the first time? Unidentified female
voice in background not discernible.! First time.
Unless they've indiscernible!.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: well, go down the hall and check and
make sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Would someone
please --
DAVID: Do you got your van down there right
now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: - see what --
HENRY: Is, is there a van moving in place?
Yes, it's moving into place. S0 --
DAVID: Okay.
HENRY: - are they, are they moving?
DAVID: Yeah, well we thought they were.
Let's see.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: There'S a blue
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U U .0
car that came out, but no one's in it.
DAVID: Well, go check down the hall and see
where they're at. Unidentified female voice in
background not discernible.!
HENRY: Wayne said they're whispering
indiscernible.!
DAVID: Well, just, just see --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER #1: Find out
what car they left in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER #2: Find out
what car they left in.
DAVID: Yeah, we're getting it, we're getting
it here.
HENRY: How do you feel?
DAVID: You know, you know, I'm not, not
conking out or nothing, you know.
HENRY: Okay. Okay.
DAVID: It's - I'm, you know, exonerated
over this possibility and chance that you've granted
me.
HENRY: Okay. A
DAVID: It allows us both to, you know, to
get accomplished what we have to get accomplished.
And, and we both get to see some sun a little longer.
HENRY: Yes. Well, in everything that you've
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O O 1,
said that you're going to do --
DAVID: Do you know how much money I've spent
trying to get churches to, to look into these things.
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVIDI can't imagine.
I've spent over a million dollars.
Wow.
You know, and you don't -- it's just
like you go all over the place. People today are just
so full of it that anything that comes along, they're
just not interested because they just think it's going
to be the same old stuff.
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVIDUm-hum. You're right.
You can't really blame them.
You're right.
But you know, that's what I'm saying.
It's like if you get 5 or 10 guys that are quack
doctors then you'll start hating doctors. When there's
a real doctor comes along, you don't trust him because,
you know, you've had so many quacks.
HENRY
DAVID
now anyway.
HENRY
DAVIDExactly. Exactly. Well --
Because I know I look like a quack
Well, you know, I --
Punish me for my sins. But at least
the truth is still the truth right from the word of
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I I 12
God.
HENRY: That's right and --
DAVID: That's the main
supposed to judge people's faults
supposed to, we're supposed to --
you know what I'm saying. But wething. We're not
and frailties. We're
of course we have to,
just have to look at
the truth when it comes to, to religion, what is
written indiscernible!. You know, Moses made
mistakes. Moses was a killer, wasn't he? Didn't Moses
kill an Egyptian?
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: Thought he was doing right, didn't
he?
HENRY: Yes. Well, I think that you're a man
of strong conviction, and you've been sincere and
honest. And everything that you said that you're going
to do you've done.
DAVID: That's right.
HENRY: And I told you I was going to hold
you to your word and, you know, and everything that
you've said that you were going to do you've done. So
I, I appreciate that.
DAVID: Well, I'm excited we have this avenue
worked out, you know. You know, I had to be kind of
cautious at first.
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' 13
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: Because like I say, you know --
HENRY: I understand.
DAVID: - we've, we've, you know, have seen
so many in times in the past where, you know, carnal
humanity in positions of authority make mistakes.
HENRY: Sure.
DAVID: which naturally people that --
unidentified female voice in background not
discernible! - well, tell them to go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: They are.
They're taking Rita.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: They are.
They're taking Rita to the car right now.
DAVID: Oh, Rita? Why not the other ones?
Unidentified voices in background not discernible.!
No, they're supposed to give them some gas.
HENRY: Yes.
DAVID: It will, it will make them, it will,
it will make it down there. It's just to the water
towers.
HENRY: Is there a problem?
DAVID: Well, no, not really. It's just
they're under - the little, the little car which
they've been taking they're saying has no gas in it.
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But --O I 1,
HENRY: well, we'll get them some gas when
they get there.
DAVID: Well, they're already going to --
they're going to get them some gas.
time.UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Oh, they were?
DAVID: Yeah. Made that arrangement last
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Kathy?
HENRY: Make sure that --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Can you --
HENRY: -- that we have the gasoline over
there. The gasoline.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: car SO that
they can put gas in it? Unidentified voices in
background not discernible.!
HENRY: Yeah. They'll have the gasoline
there ready for them.
DAVID: Okay. Yeah, have you ever dealt with
cults before?
I mean -HENRY: No, not really.
DAVID: Really? Terrorists?
HENRY: Not, not really. We've --
DAVID: I mean do I really sound that crazy?
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U I 15
HENRY: You don't sound crazy. You sound
sincere. Everything that you've said that you're going
to do you've done. You know, I have no fault with you.
DAVID: Well, the thing of it is is that
today, you know, we, we - like I was trying to explain
to Jim and I've explained to you. You know, the
American government is an established, you know, circle
of individuals that have different positions of
authority and decisions, you know.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: So when, when a nation decides to
make war against another nation -- unidentified male
voice in background not discernible! -- agents are
getting in the Bradleys? Unidentified voices in
background not discernible.! Yeah, well, you know.
You got to exercise a little faith too, now. Okay.
HENRY: Are they coming?
DAVID: Yeah. They're going now, all right?
HENRY: They're coming now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Tell them when
they get in the car indiscernible!.
DAVID: Well, be sure and tell them to
take --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I did.
DAVID: -- the other car --
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Well, I just
told Kathy --
DAVID: -- and just they'll put gas in it.
Okay. Yeah. So they're, so they're going.
HENRY: Okay. They're going.
DAVID: Have they, have they left yet?
Unidentified female voice in background not
discernible.!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: They're on their
way down there. Okay.
HENRY: Okay. Yeah, I think they're moving.
DAVID: Okay, you see them?
HENRY: I think somebody sees them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Did they get in
the car yet? No, they didn't get in the car yet.
HENRY: Is somebody going to - somebody's
going to drive the car back then, right?
they kind
yet? No.DAVID: Yeah, Sonia's bringing them.
HENRY: Oh, okay.
DAVID: Well, like we told Jim, you know,
of like to keep the same driver.
HENRY: Oh, okay. Good. Have they left yet?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Have they left
DAVID: Tell them to hurry up. Look, the
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I O 1,
longer they take, the longer it's going to take them to
process this tape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
hurry up. Unidentified male
discernible.!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
yet? Unidentified voices in
discernible.!SPEAKER: Tell them to
voices in background not
SPEAKER: Do you see them
background not
DAVID: Are they gone now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: NO .
DAVID: Oh, could someone walk down there and
please tell them to hurry. Unidentified male voice in
background not discernible.!
HENRY:
DAVID: Sir?
HENRY: Our unit is
DAVID: Oh, the van
HENRY: Yes.
DAVID:
You know, they're
and seventies.Okay. Our unit is in position.
in position.
is?
Okay. You know, they're old ladies.
- I think they're in their sixties
HENRY: Okay. They're older ladies so that's
why they're moving slow. They're older ladies so
that's why they're moving slow. But they'll be coming
shortly. Unidentified voices in background not
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discernible.!
DAVID:
HENRY
DAVID9 9 1.
How long you been doing this, Henry?
Twenty some years.
Oh. Yeah, I could tell you're
very you know one thing you do that is something
that is very commendable is you're a listener. Of
course, you know in psychology when you're dealing
with, you know, people that flap their jaws, you know
you got to listen.
HENRY
DAVID:
to do.
HENRY
DAVID:Well -
And -- I'm saying it's a good thing
Umhum.
Because, you know, if you, if you do
that, you know, bearing with people's foolishness then,
you know, because you know a lot of people talk and
never say anything, right?
HENRY: Well, that's true. But you, you have
strong convictions. And what you say --
DAVID: Well, what I'm saying is I'm saying
that if you do that and if someone does say something
wise you become wiser. Because you get their
information too
HENRY: That's true. That's very true.
[Pause]
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O O 19
HENRY: Are they moving?
DAVID: They're moving now, right?
HENRY: Are they moving? Unidentified
voices in background not discernible.!
DAVID: Okay, they're going in the Prelude?
HENRY: Oh, okay. Unidentified voices in
background not discernible.!
DAVID: Oh, okay. So they're taking the, the
Honda Prelude. It's a red Honda Prelude. Because
Misty's car has been full, is full of glass.
HENRY: They're going to take a red Honda --
DAVID: Prelude.
HENRY: - Prelude. How do you feel right
now. Are you feeling okay?
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVIDYeah, I'm --
You're not too exhausted, are you?
Feeling what?
You're going to be okay.
Like I said, it's -- unidentified
voices in background not discernible! my spirits are
real high right now.
HENRY: Okay, well good. That's good. Now,
this is going to take a little bit of time --
DAVID: The nurses say that God's working a
miracle.
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1 HENRY
2 DAVID
92
92
3 anyway.
4 HENRY
6 stuff like that
7 HENRY
8 DAVID
l l HENRY
1 3 HENRY
15 body.5 DAVID
12 DAVID:
14 DAVID:
21 me up afterwards?Q 20
Yeah. That's true.
I've always had a high pain threshold
Um-hum.
I never, I never liked drugs and
I used to be a long-distance runner.
Umhum.
And I don't know. Just you train
9 yourself to think real deep when you train yourself to
10 work hard and work long and --
Umhum.
-- run long and run hard.
That's right.
Good physical body is a good mental
16 HENRY: Um-hum. That's exactly right. And I
17 want you to be thinking in terms of the medical aid
18 that, that we will have for you as soon as you come
19 out, as soon as we're able to carry you out.
20 DAVID: You can patch me up so you can tear
22 HENRY: No. I'm, I'm not saying that we want
23 to do that. You know that. I -- you know?
24 DAVID: Well, we just, we just like I say, we
25 both know what we're looking at.
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1O O 21
HENRY: Okay. Okay. Well, you know, but I'm
holding you to your word. You know, I want you to be
alive.
DAVID: Yeah, I'll be alive.
HENRY: Okay. You're the
DAVID: Remember Shabaz phonetic sp.! he
was -- back in Shabaz's day.
prosecuting attorney.
HENRY 2 Um-hum .
DAVID: In '88.
Shabaz, look at me. I said,
guy. I said, you know -- ofYou Shabaz is the
told him I said, I said
you know, I'm not a big
course this is back then.
I said you know we're innocent. I said what if, what
if they convict me and send me to prison? I've never
been to prison before this time. And I said, you know,
what if some big guy, Bubba gets me in there and, you
know, bends me over and does something wicked to me and
gives me AIDS? I said won't you feel bad? He goes you
should have been - you know, he's a black guy and goes
you should have been thinking that, about that before
you went out there on that Mt. Carmel.
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRY
DAVID: Laughs.!
Oh, boy.
Uh-huh.
But he --I don't need to laugh.
afterwards he tried to turn
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O O ,2
around and sue Waco. I mean, I mean there's some good
attorneys.
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
especially people
and are trying to
HENRY:
DAVID:
is not exploiting
equity.
HENRY:Umhum.
And there's some that are really bad.
Well, you're right.
And it's just like wow, they got like
that are, you know, like minorities
prove something double, you know.
Umhum. That's true.
They don't they forget that equity
oneself above the other. It's
Yes. I want you to start thinking in
terms of how we're going to get all of the people out.
Now we spoke earlier about bringing all of the women
out first.
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
children.
HENRY:
DAVID:Right.
Okay.
The women and their remaining
Okay.
Okay. And we said we was going to
put them like in a vista so you can see them. Because
we got clear visibility now.
HENRY: Okay.
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O I 23
DAVID: And that way you'll know there ain't
no bombs on them or something like that. Because I
know they, they think we got a bunch of bombs here.
HENRY:
DAVID:
guys, we'll bring
up.
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:Okay.
And then - let's see. And then the
those out one by one with their hands
Okay.
That will be good for TV.
Umhum. Well
And no -- well, like the well, I
know you don't want to wear them, want them to wear
loose jackets or nothing. Or I mean you know.
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
everybody is, you
any mistakes.
DAVID:Well, we trust you. But, you know --
Well, yeah, but still --
- we want to make sure that
know, that nobody has, nobody makes
We trusted, we trusted - I always
trusted law enforcement too.
HENRY:
DAVID:Okay.
But I know that when they get - when
they think they know something, they coming banging in
the doors.
HENRY: Umhum.
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O U 24
DAVID: See that's why, that's why -- so
that's why I welcomed Robert over so -- you know, it's
just funny about humanity. I did, I did everything for
Robert Gonzales hoping that he would, you know, get
back with you guys and --
HENRY: Well, see you're the key to this
thing, okay? And, and because --
DAVID: If he had, if he had taken my warning
when I told him, see. I told him that morning, I said,
now Robert, you know, you know I've showed you the
truth right out of the book.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: I said I only showed you a small part
of it.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: But you know I would -- because you
know, like I told him I said you can come home for 2
weeks. We have the 2-week course when a person decides
they really want to know it, then we give them 2 weeks.
And then we send them away.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: The reason being is, is that by
sending them away, they're able to get out of our
influence and get under other people's influences.
HENRY: Right. NOW what -
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O O 25
DAVID: And then they can --
HENRY: -- what about, what about the men?
Are you going to send them out one by one in the same
fashion?
DAVID: Well, how do you want it?
HENRY: Yeah. That's, that's fine.
DAVID: I mean, you know, definitely the, you
know, the men are more dangerous then the women so
difference is, you know, the, the - I mean like I say
I was just concerned --
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: - on how you feel in regards to
whether they're wearing coats or not? I mean it's kind
of cold. But if they got a coat on or something like
that, you might think they got a bomb or something, you
know. So that way if they, if they came out without
their coat on and I don't know. How do you suggest it?
HENRY: Well, let me find out if, if we want
to have them one by one or if we want to have them two
at a time. And, and then if we have somebody other
than yourself that's hurt that needs to be carried out,
then I need to know how many people we're talking about
that are in that kind --
DAVID: Right.
HENRY: of a situation in addition to
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
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I Q 2.
1 yourself.
2 DAVID: when we get, when we get to that
3 point then we'll tell you.
4 HENRY: Okay. That's fine. I
5 problem with that. That's fine.
6 DAVID: Well , like
7 that you all had the reports that we had
8 children here. And so I was
9 true. Your, your Dad is not
10 many you got? well, I said well I'm not
11
12 this. It's a card game.
13
14 DAVID: SO -
15
16 We can, we can discuss that
17 out a plan with you so that
18 and safe and, and we get it all done.
19 DAVID: All right.
20 HENRY: Okay?
21
92DAVID:
22 talk though.
23 HENRY: Sure it does. Sure it
24 DAVID: Okay. Do you all have
25 HENRY: No, not yet. Are they
Court Reporting Depositions
D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 10! 974-0947HENRY: Okay. But I don't have a
HENRY: -- I don't have a problem
later, and then
everybody feels
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.don't have a
I was trying to tell --
only so many
telling Jim now that's not
correct. Said well how
telling you.
You know. It's a card game, you know, at first like
with that.
we'll work
comfortable
It does take energy out of you to
does.
them yet?
there?
92
r 1I O 2.,
Unidentified male voice in background not
discernible.! I think that they should be, that they
should be there. Now everything is working out real
well because we trust one another, and I want to
continue that.
DAVID: All right, now here's the thing.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: She -- okay, do you see them? I mean
do you got a confirmation? Unidentified male voice in
background not discernible.! They're, they're loading
the van now.
DAVID: Okay. Now remember --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: They've met up.
HENRY: Okay. The, the two, the two units
have met up, and they're loading up the van.
DAVID: Remember, you know, don't handcuff
those old ladies. You know what I mean?
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: I mean let me explain to you.
They're, they're one's in her later sixties and
one's in her seventies. They're both in their
seventies. Okay.
HENRY: They're in their seventies?
DAVID: Yeah. There is some other old women
here too. And, you know, they, they love the truth and
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Depositions
D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 10! 974-0947
I O ,8
everything but there's --
HENRY
DAVID
that, that they
HENRY
DAVID:
you know, don't
HENRY
DAVID:
old ladies.
HENRY
DAVIDSure.
-- there's a lot of things, you know,
don't know.
Sure.
And so, you know, like I'm saying,
treat them like criminals.
Okay. Okay.
Because they're good, they're good
Okay. Okay.
And you know, they do. Because like
I say they've studied for years.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: And even though they've studied for
years and
you know,
lot of it
HENRY
DAVID
decay of our --
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVIDat one time they may have been real bright,
when, when they've learned this message, a
goes over their head.
Sure. Sure.
And it's just a part of the human
That's right.
-- minds and our brightness.
Exactly.
Especially Katherine, you know. Both
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
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Balt. & Annap. 10! 974-0947
. 29
of them. They're just, they're as sweet as can be.
They're like, they're like your grandmother, you know.
HENRY: Okay. Well, good. Good. I'm glad,
you know, that you chose them, you know, to be the --
DAVID: Well, no, I asked them.
HENRY: Okay. well, good.
DAVID: You know. And I, I told them I said
look. I said here's the deal. You know. So far Jim
has been real good. And so far this guy's been, you
know. And, and we're not, we're not dead yet. I mean
no one's been shooting on us. You know you've --
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: - so far kept your word.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: You know, we've had a lot of weird,
spooky things but, you know, so --
HENRY: Well, I know. But you know, once we
indiscernible! you know, and we gave you our word that
it was going to be in a certain fashion. when you kept
saying there's somebody on the roof, you know, somebody
with a rope and stuff like that --
DAVID: Well, there was. It wasn't a -- it
was. It was our guy.
HENRY: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
DAVID: So he got scolded for that. Because
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
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D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 10! 974-0947
Q 9 .0
you know --
HENRY:
sense. Yeah, tha
DAVID:
HENRY :
long as, as, you Laughs.! Yeah, well, that makes
t makes a lot of sense.
It was our fault, you know.
Okay. Well, no. You know, just so
know, we're comfortable working with
each other that we want to continue in that vein.
Okay. In terms of, of when they get here, do you want
me to call you?
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:Yeah.
Okay.
That way the two children get to
speak to their mother.
HENRY:
DAVID:
with Mike.
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
problem. we can
DAVID:
to turn the radio
shut my eyes just
HENRY:
DAVID:Okay. That's fine.
Because that's the arrangement we had
That's fine. We can do that.
I mean Jim. I'm sorry, with Jim.
Okay. That's fine. That's not a
do that.
Okay. Then I'm going to, I'm going
on here for a second. I'm going to
for a little bit so I can regenerate.
Okay. That's fine.
And because I really need to. I need
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
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D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 10! 974-0947
to ~-
HENRY:
DAVID:
strong as I could1 ' ' 31
Okay. And I'll call you back.
I mean I, I spoke as clear and as
on that. And I put it up close to my
mouth too. So it, it makes me sound kind of high, but
they can, they can reedit it, you know. They can --
anyway, they'll know what to do with it. Okay, thanks
a lot.
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:Okay, you're welcome.
We really appreciate it.
They're on their way over here now.
So we should be in good shape.
DAVID: Okay. Give us a call when you get,
when you get up there.
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
RACHEL:
HENRY:
RACHEL:
you want to speak
HENRY:Okay, I'll call you later.
Thanks, Henry. God bless you.
Thank you. Okay.
Bye.
You too. Byebye.
*k*>92'
Hello?
Rita?
No. Just, just a minute. Who did
to?
I want to speak to David. This is
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
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D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
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" I, 32
Henry.
RACHEL: Okay. He's asleep. I guess I'll
wake him up.
HENRY: Well, is, is Steve there?
RACHEL: Yes.
HENRY: I'll talk to Steve.
RACHEL: Just a minute. Steve. Steve.
Steve, I'm talking to you. Unidentified voices in
background not discernible.! No, he wants to talk to
you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Ask them for
names indiscernible!.
RACHEL: They're both sleeping.
HENRY: They're both sleeping?
RACHEL: Yeah.
HENRY: Okay. Do you know the name of the
two other kids that are coming out?
RACHEL: Oh, that are coming next? Let me
ask and see if anybody else does because I don't
myself. Unidentified voices in background not
discernible.!
[ 9 aP ]
RACHEL: Well, I guess -- I'll have to wake
him up. Because no one --
HENRY: Well, no, don't wake them up. I'll
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
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I ", 33
tell you what. The kids that we have here now, does
somebody there want to talk to them?
RACHEL: Just a minute. Lisa?
LISA: Yeah.
RACHEL: Who wants to talk to the kids that
are there? Unidentified voices in background not
discernible.! Sheila. Where is Sheila? Yes, just a
minute, okay?
HENRY: Who is this?
RACHEL: This is Rachel.
HENRY: Hi, Rachel.
RACHEL: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: I don't know.
RACHEL: Where's Steve at? Get Sheila so she
can talk to her kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #1: Ask that girl
if Sheila --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #2: Sheila is the
mother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #1: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #2: As soon as she
gets there, just tell her to hold on indiscernible!.
[939]
HENRY: Rachel?
RACHEL: Yes.
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Depositions
D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Bait. & Annap. 10! 974-0947
I U 3.
HENRY: Okay. Whenever, you know, whenever
they wake up, David and Steve, let them know that, you
know, everything went real good in terms of the
exchange. The older ladies came here. Everything's
fine.
RACHEL: Okay.
HENRY: Okay. We're going to let you talk to
the - whoever needs to talk to the kids. And then go
ahead and let them rest.
RACHEL: Okay.
HENRY: And then what we'll do is I'll, I'll
just call them later.
RACHEL: Okay.
HENRY: Okay? But whenever - is it more
than one mother talking to these kids?
RACHEL: who was it, Daniel and Kimmie that
are there?
HENRY: Um~hum.
RACHEL: No. Same mother. They're brothers
and sisters.
HENRY: Oh, okay. what's the mother's name?
RACHEL: Sheila.
HENRY: Sheila?
RACHEL: Uh-huh .
HENRY: Okay.
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
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D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 10! 974-0947
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25Get her.
get her.
you going
you going
know, andO Q 35
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #2: IS she there?
HENRY: Is she, is she coming?
RACHEL: Yes.
HENRY: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: They Went to
RACHEL: Okay.
[9aP]
RACHEL: Henry?
HENRY: Yes?
RACHEL: Are they able to call you, or are
to call back later?
HENRY: What?
RACHEL: Are they able to call you, or are
to call back later?
HENRY: Well, if Sheila is there we'd, you
she wants to talk to them --
RACHEL: Uhhuh.
HENRY: -- the kids are right here.
RACHEL: No, I mean David or Steve.
HENRY: Oh, I'll call them back later.
RACHEL: Okay.
HENRY: If they're resting, you know.
RACHEL: Yeah, they're resting.
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Depositions
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U Q 3.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Over there.
Over there.
RACHEL: Okay. Here she, here she is.
HENRY: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The kids are
going to be here for a short time. Just want to make
sure that they are getting some attention, some food
and stuff. So they might have to --
SHEILA
HENRY :
SHEILA
HENRY :
SHEILA:
HENRY :
SHEILA:
[gap]
HENRY:
SHEILA
HENRY:
SHEILA
HENRY :Hello?
Hello?
Yes, hello?
Sheila?
Yes, it is Sheila.
Let me get the kids. Hold on.
Okay. Thank you.
How are you doing?
Fine. I'm doing fine.
Good.
How's everything?
Everything seems to be working good.
We want to, to continue with this, you know, orderly
procedure that we have going. And we're very hopeful
that we'll be able to get everybody out and that
everything's going to work out, you know, in the
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
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C Q .7
fashion that it has been up to this point.
SHEILA: Oh, thank you. I, I think you know
that those are Jamie's brothers and sisters, right?
HENRY: Right. We just were told that. We
didn't know that before.
SHEILA: I see. Okay. And they'll help him
with what, you know, you would - he needs to know.
And he's a special little boy as you can see.
HENRY: Okay.
SHEILA: Did they call to his school yet?
HENRY: Pardon me?
SHEILA: Did they call to his school and tell
his teacher?
HENRY: Okay.
SHEILA: Okay. It's in a note that he's at
the Axville phonetic sp.! Elementary.
HENRY: Oh, okay.
SHEILA: Okay. Mrs. Walden phonetic sp.!.
And she'll --
HENRY: Okay.
SHEILA: And she'll help you also to know
what to do for him.
HENRY: Okay.
SHEILA: For Jamie?
HENRY: Do we have a lot of people that are
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
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oc. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 10! 9740947
I
1 22I l 38
l
2 out?
3 SHEILA:
4 HENRY:
5
6 HENRY:
7 SHEILA:
8 HENRY:
9 SHEILA:
10 DANIEL:
ll SHEILA:
l2 DANIEL:
13 SHEILA:
14 go with Kimmie.
15 DANIEL:
16 SHEILA:
17 DANIEL:
18 SHEILA:
19 spoke -- your Dad
20 DANIEL:
21 SHEILA:
DANIEL:
23 SHEILA:
24 You be a big boy,
25injured in there that are going to need to be carried
No. Uhuh. No.
Okay. Hold on a second.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: This iS Daniel.
Daniel?
Yeah.
Okay. Hold on just a second.
Okay. Thank you.
Hi, Mom.
Hi, big boy.
when are you going to come?
we're coming soon, okay? Okay? You
Oh, Kimmie's, she's over here --
Okay.
- sitting on top.
All right. And tell - and, and you
spoke to MomMom and PopPop, okay?
Yes.
So they know you're all right, okay?
Okay.
Okay. And let me speak to Kimmie.
okay? Unidentified male voice in
background not discernible.!
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Depositions
D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 10! 974-0947
MOHI . ' 39
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Say, say hi to
KIMMIE: Hi.
SHEILA: Hi, Kimmie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Little louder.
KIMMIE: Hi.
SHEILA: Hi, Kimmie. You doing okay?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Say yeah.
KIMMIE: Yeah.
SHEILA: Okay. we'll see you soon, okay?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Tell her you --
SHEILA: Be good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: have some
friends here that are taking care of you.
SHEILA: Huh? Want to say something?
Unidentified male voice in background not
discernible.! Okay.
DANIEL: This is Daniel.
SHEILA: Daniel again? Okay. You getting
ready to have something to eat again, huh?
DANIEL: No, I'm not hungry yet.
SHEILA: Okay. All right. That's good.
Well, we can talk a little later. Do you want to do
that?
HENRY: Hello?
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
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FI U .0
SHEILA: Yes.
HENRY: Okay.
SHEILA: Yes. Okay.
HENRY: I just want to make sure that, you
know, that you were, felt comfortable that everything's
okay with the kids.
SHEILA: Well, thank you very much for this.
HENRY: Okay.
SHEILA: They're special. They'll be --
HENRY: Pardon me?
SHEILA: I said they're special and so
they'll be fine.
HENRY: I'm sure that they will be. We'll
make sure that everything goes right for them. We're,
we're trying to make --
SHEILA: Just one minute. Somebody wants
to -- just a minute.
RACHEL: So you got the tape then, right?
HENRY: We received the tape --
RACHEL: Okay.
HENRY: -- and we're making -- we're going
to, we're going to need to make copies of the tape.
RACHEL: Um-hum.
HENRY: Okay? We feel real, real good about
the way that things are working.
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
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O I 41
RACHEL: Um-hum.
HENRY: We're going to make sure that these
children are taking well care of, okay? And they're
going to be treated like they're our kids.
RACHEL: Um-hum.
HENRY: Okay? And what we'd like to do is
RACHEL: I, I don't know if this is true or
not, but I heard over the radio that the kids were
heading towards the airport.
HENRY: Airport? No.
RACHEL: Indiscernible.!
HENRY: Well, I'll tell you what. Wait a
second. They are headed towards the airport because
that's where we're at.
RACHEL: Um-hum.
HENRY: We're in a hangar at this time.
RACHEL : Umhum .
HENRY: So that's where the children are at
this time.
RACHEL: So where are they going to be? Are
they going to go somewhere?
HENRY: The
RACHEL: The children.
HENRY: The Children's Protective Service is
going to take care of them. And ensure that they get
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
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O 0 .2
whatever they need to get in terms of meals and that
they're well taken care of.
RACHEL: Umhum.
HENRY: Hopefully, you know, we'll
working through this so that when you people
everything is, is resolved in such a fashion
everybody feels comfortable.
RACHEL: Okay. All right. Then I
will be all for now, huh?
HENRY: Well, let me ask you this.
know how many people are going to be -- that
going to need to carry out of that place?
RACHEL: No, I don't.continue
come out
that
guess that
Do you
we're
HENRY: Okay. Is are there a lot of
people that are hurt?
RACHEL: Like I say, I'm just -- this is a
big place. I'm here where I'm at, and I don't know.
HENRY: Okay. We want to make sure --
RACHEL: You'll have to talk to David about
that. He probably knows.
HENRY: Okay. We want to make sure that,
that these children are, are well taken care of, okay?
Because they're going to be waiting for you to come
out.
RACHEL: Um-hum. Okay.
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.| I 43
HENRY: Okay? I know that David can't walk,
okay, because he told us that. And we're going to need
to make arrangements so that we can process him in such
a fashion that everybody feels comfortable.
RACHEL: Umhum.
HENRY: So if there's anybody else that's in
that, that's in that situation, we need to try to make
plans so that they can be taken care of as well as
David.
RACHEL: Umhum.
HENRY: Okay, so we're --
RACHEL: Okay, well --
HENRY: -- we're trying to arrange medical
transportation for as many people as we need.
RACHEL: Uhhuh .
HENRY: So, you know, if, if you know that
somebody is going to need help, let me know.
RACHEL: Okay.
HENRY: Do you know when -- has David told
you when everybody is going to be coming out?
RACHEL: No. I've been getting some rest
myself. So I haven't heard everything.
HENRY: Okay. Okay. Is, is Steve in charge
whenever David is not around?
RACHEL: In charge?
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I 4. 0 44
HENRY: Well, you know, with trying to
facilitate the process there for everybody?
RACHEL: Well, I don't know if I can answer
that. You know, I, you know, I don't know.
HENRY: Okay. Okay. Well, did they go to
sleep just a long time ago or just a little bit ago?
RACHEL: Well, the last time you talked to
him.
HENRY: Uh-huh .
RACHEL: And he was awake for a little bit
after that.
HENRY: Okay.
RACHEL: Let me look at my watch here. It's
really hard to say, you know. The way things are and
it was time -- it was after you talked to him. I don't
know --
HENRY: Okay.
RACHEL: -- how long it's been.
HENRY: Okay. Has he --
RACHEL: Maybe -- I don't know. Maybe half
an hour. I don't know.
HENRY: Okay. Has he had any more to eat?
RACHEL: I don't think so.
HENRY: Okay. He is sleeping, right? I mean
he's not --
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»
I
2U 9 .5
RACHEL: Yeah. No, he's sleeping.
HENRY: Okay.
RACHEL: No, he, he was just drinking
juice --
HENRY: Okay.
RACHEL: - before. And I heard him
the phone earlier this morning that he had some
HENRY: Oh, okay. Yeah, some chicken
Well, everything's going real well, and we wantsay on
soup.
soup.
to make
sure that, you know, that it continues going well and
that, you know, and this thing ends very safely
everybody.
RACHEL: Okay.for
HENRY: Okay? We appreciate your help and
cooperation.
RACHEL: Okay.
HENRY: Okay?
RACHEL: Thank you.
HENRY: We'll call you later.
RACHEL: Okay.
HENRY: Byebye.
RACHEL: Byebye.
End of tape.!
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92
I 9292 92U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPE #l2A
UNIDENTIFIED
any contact?
UNIDENTIFIED
UNIDENTIFIED
what --
UNIDENTIFIED
earlier.MALE
MALE
MALE
MALE
Phone ringing.!
JIM: No answer.SPEAKER #1
SPEAKER #2
SPEAKER #1
SPEAKER #22
Okay. We have
None at all.
This is
Called
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #1: That's why I'm
wondering about their phone. You're absolutely certain
they didn't change the number?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #2: Yeah, this --
well, this was our line, direct line into --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #1: They were
going to change that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #2: They were
going to change the one that was Blaine's line over
there.
UNIDENTIFIED
in a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED
able to turn that phone off.
UNIDENTIFIED
that tech --MALE
MALE
MALE
UNIDENTIFIED MALESPEAKER #1
SPEAKER #2
SPEAKER #1
SPEAKER #2Try them again
- they may be
Can check with
Need Byron?
1
somethingUNIDENTIFIED MALE
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
to it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
that -- ring that long.
doing?
HOW .
COI'¬ OV¬1I'GREG:
JIM:
GREG:
JIM:
GREG:
JIM:
GREG:
JIM:
GREG:
[9aP]
GREG:
JIM:
GREG:
JIM:
GREG:7:
Hello?
Hello, this
Jim.
Is this Dav
No David.
Oh, hi, Gre
Hold on a
Okay.
Thank you.
There?
Yeah.
Okay. Go
David?
No, he's,SPEAKER #1: Yeah.
SPEAKER #2: -- see if --
SPEAKER #1: That did
SPEAKER #2: Yeah. That's,
kt
is Jim.
id?
This is Greg. How you
g.
second would you?
ahead.
he's not available right
JIM: Oh, okay. well, can you get him to
to the phone? I need to talk to him.3
O O 4
GREG: One second.
JIM: Um-hum.
[9aP]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: -- that number
would still be - it should be. We're trying out --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Oh, you're just
trying the other number?
gave me.
all, how,
this phone hasn't been working for a long,
phone lines so we can get in there. We'reJIM: No. I tried this is the number they
GREG: Jim?
JIM: Hey, yeah.
GREG: Hi, this is Greg again.
JIM: Hey, Greg.
GREG: Hey, Jim. I don't know -- first of
how did you get through to this? Because
long time.
JIM: Oh, I don't know. We got, you know,
trying to
get to David, you know.
of it.GREG: Yeah. Okay, I just found out he's out
JIM: Asleep?
GREG: What's that?
JIM: Is he asleep?
GREG: Yeah.
JIM: Um-hum.
O O 5
GREG: And that number is 5252.
JIM: Okay. Yeah. Okay. Was, was the phone
ringing up there?
GREG: I, I really have no idea. It probably
was.
JIM: Can you go up there and let me try to
call you up there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Just to see if it
works.
JIM: Just to see if the phone works?
GREG: Yeah, sure. Hold on.
JIM: Okay.
GREG: Hang up here?
JIM: Yeah. Hang up there and then if, if I
don't get through call me back, or I'll call you back
at this number.
GREG: Okay.
JIM: Okay.
*>92'*
Phone ringing. One side of phone
conversation in background.!
JOHN: Greg?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Greg.
JOHN: Okay, yeah, this is John. Hey Greg.
Okay, that's not ringing upstairs. Why don't I give
you, why don't you see if indiscernible! call back in
about 4 or 5 minutes. Yeah, how's that? Okay, will
do. Bye-bye.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: For 150 feet Of
wire.
*>'<*
JIM: Hello? Hello?
RACHEL: Hello? Hello?
JIM: Hello?
RACHEL: Hello?
JIM: This is Jim.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: Who's this?
RACHEL: This is Rachel.
JIM: Oh, hi, Rachel.
RACHEL: Hello.
JIM: Is David there?
RACHEL: Yes, he is.
JIM: Can I talk to him?
RACHEL: okay, I'll have to wake him up.
JIM: Okay. Go ahead.
RACHEL: Jim's on the phone. Jim.
DAVID: Jim.
JIM: Hey. David, how you doing?
DAVID: Oh, lots better.
JIM: Man, I know you got some rest. I'm,
I'm thrilled about that.
DAVID: Well, I'm getting some. I've been
waiting all this morning for the, for the, the message
to come across the air.
JIM: Right. Hey, we're getting that worked
out. And I think it's going to be a solid go.
DAVID: That will be great.
JIM: Yeah, it really is. I talked to Henry
and, and he told me what --
DAVID: He's another good guy, you know?
JIM: Yeah.
DAVID: He's got a good mind on him.
JIM: Yeah, he is a good guy. And we've,
we've been dealing with the Christian Broadcast
Network.
DAVID: Uh-huh .
JIM: And you know, we, we had some initial
difficulties about, you know, how long they would play
it. But we, we really hung in there and, and stood
up --
DAVID: Pushed it out.
JIM: we stood up and said listen, you know,
we want you to play his whole message.
DAVID: God bless you.
JIM: No editing. We, we really stood firm
for you. So I, I hope you realize that.
DAVID: Oh, God bless you.
I O 8
JIM: But listen. I -- do you have a pencil
there?
DAVID: Pencil, Rach. Okay.
JIM: Okay. This is what we want to do.
We're -- the people at the network we -- like I say we,
we battled them to get the whole message. And, and
they, they said they will do it. And it's an hour.
It's a solid hour, David.
DAVID: Uh-huh .
JIM: And that's great. But they have some
legal and moral concerns, and they expressed these.
And what we want you to do is just add a sentence to
it, okay?
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: Now we want you to say something like
this. Now make a note of this, okay? And it's
nothing - you'll, you'll understand what I mean.
Okay?
DAVID: Go ahead.
JIM: This is you, you, you're going to --
we'll tape this for you if, you know, once we, you hear
it. I agree that upon the broadcasting of my tape --
DAVID: Oh, you want me to repeat that?
JIM: Okay. I agree --
DAVID: Yeah, well, go ahead. Let me hear
it.
JIM: Okay. I agree that upon the
broadcasting of my tape --
DAVID: Right.
JIM: -- I will immediately come out
peacefully with all my people.
DAVID: Right. That's the agreement we made
JIM: Okay.
DAVID: I said that on the tape.
JIM: Oh, I know.
DAVID: Already.
JIM: Oh, I know you did. And, and I heard
it. But we -- what we wanted --
DAVID: Yeah, that's the whole, that's the
whole thing of it. That's --
JIM: Well, what happened, Dave, though, is
the radio guys says, you know, they want to put it on
first. And you know, you had already --
DAVID: Oh, I see. Okay.
JIM: Yeah. But if you'll do that --
DAVID: Sure, okay. Well, you, well, you
want to record my voice here now or what? Because see
I put it on at the --
JIM: Okay. We'll --
DAVID: at the end of it.
JIM: Well, see we're -- hold on just a
second.
I O ,0
DAVID: Okay.
[9aP]
JIM: David, the reason for this is the
people at the network are worried, you know, just the
way you phrased it, okay?
DAVID: Oh, how did I phrase it?
JIM:Well, you just said we will give
ourselves over to the world, give ourselves out to you.
And they were concerned and we're concerned that
there's going to be --
DAVID
JIM:
somebody hurt.
DAVID
JIM:
concern is.
DAVID
to say?
JIM:
DAVID
JIM:
DAVID
JIM:
DAVID
JIM:
tape --Oh.
- you know, some type of a suicide or
Oh.
Okay. That's all. That's all our
Okay. So what, what do they want me
Okay, great.
I want -- okay. I will --
Say - let me read it to you again.
All right.
I agree --
I agree --
-- that upon the broadcasting of this
92
92
92
I
92 ' 11
DAVID: -- that upon the broadcasting of this
tape --
JIM: -- I will immediately come out --
DAVID: -- I'll immediately come out --
JIM: -- peacefully --
DAVID: -- peacefully --
JIM: -- with all my people.
DAVID: -- with all the people.
JIM: Right. That -- and what they're going
to do, David, just going to play that first and then
your whole message.
DAVID: Okay. Have you recorded that?
JIM: No. I'm going to let you read it to me
in just a minute.
DAVID: Okay. Rach? I, I can remember that.
JIM: Well, okay. Why don't you get Rachel
to write it down for you.
DAVID: Okay. Write this down. Upon the
broadcasting of this tape -- shouldn't I say I, David
Koresh, agree?
JIM: Yeah, sure. That's great.
DAVID: Say I, David Koresh, agree that upon
the broadcasting of this tape -- got that down? I --
okay. There's a big sentence. I and all the people --
RACHEL: I and all the --
DAVID: I and all the people of this
U U 1.
association will come out peacefully.
JIM: And immediately.
DAVID: And immediately. And immediately.
Of course, we already made arrangements how to do that,
remember? I mean me and - okay, read it back to me,
Rach.
JIM: Yeah, we'll hey, David, David, do
you mean it now? Are we going to do it?
DAVID: Yeah .
JIM: Okay, buddy.
DAVID: Okay -
JIM: Now, we'll - you and me will work out
the details about, you know, walking out. Right now
we're more interested in getting your message out.
DAVID: Okay. Well, the things like I told
them, you know. Because the -- where's, where's Henry
at now? Has he gone to bed?
JIM: Yeah, he's gone to bed, yeah.
DAVID: Okay. Okay. So all right, then.
I guess indiscernible!.
JIM: Okay. Yeah. Did, did Rachel write it
down?
DAVID: Read it back to me, Rach.
RACHEL: I, David Koresh, agree upon the
broadcasting of this tape I and all the people in this
association will immediately, peacefully come out.
O I 13
DAVID: Immediately --
JIM: Okay, wait a minute, Dave. Okay. Can
you get -- get it so you can read it, and I'll count
you down so we can record it, okay?
DAVID: Okay. Let me --
JIM: All right, practice it once. Just go
ahead and read it.
DAVID: Let me, let me see it, Rach. I,
David Koresh, agree upon the
that I and all the people in
immediately, peacefully come
that good. I, David Koresh,
broadcasting of this tape tobroadcasting of this tape
this association will
out. That don't sound
agree upon the
immediately surrender?
JIM: Well, just come out.
DAVID: Okay. Okay, I, David Koresh, agree
upon the broadcasting of this tape to immediately come
out and all the people with me.
JIM: Peacefully.
DAVID:
Okay, got that?
JIM:
it? You --Okay, all the people peacefully.
Okay. Now you got it all like you want
DAVID: Yeah. We'll give it a run. Okay.
JIM:
three, and then
DAVID: Okay.Okay. Ill count you down, one, two,
you read it, okay?
O O 1,
JIM: Okay, you ready, buddy?
DAVID: All right.
JIM: Okay. One, two, three.
DAVID: I, David Koresh, agree upon the
broadcasting of this tape to come out peacefully with
all the people immediately.
JIM: Okay. We got it.
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: Okay. Now let's see if there's any
other issues we got to talk about just now. Yeah.
We --
DAVID: This is supposed to be nationwide.
JIM: Hey, Dave?
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: One thing the commanders we're going
to get that to the radio people.
DAVID: Okay, excuse me. Can someone give me
a Kleenex? All right. Like I say indiscernible! and
on these? Unidentified male voice in background not
discernible.! The main thing is the truth. Okay.
JIM: Hey, David?
DAVID: So what happened with the KRLD
broadcast of it?
JIM: The KRLD?
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: Oh, broadcast of the tape?
O O 15
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: Oh, I don't know. I thought we --
well, we're going to go on nationwide. That's part of
the network, you know, how it goes on.
DAVID: Oh, I see.
JIM: Yeah, it will all be on. It will be on
like -- I mean this is the biggest Christian
broadcasting network in the world. And the guy they're
dealing with is Craig Smith.
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: Out of Phoenix. And he's going to do
it.
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: Yeah.
DAVID: It's just --
JIM: You'll be able to hear it. I'm going
to call you when, when it's happening.
DAVID: And it will be on KRLD?
JIM: It's going to be on 1010 AM. Write
this down.
DAVID: 1010 AM.
JIM: And it's KBBW.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Waco.
JIM: Waco.
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: That's just the one in Waco. It's
O Q 16
everywhere. It's a network.
DAVID: All right.
JIM: Okay. Now listen, here's a couple of
things we need to get from you in the meantime. We're
trying to work out, you know, the - get all the folks
out quietly and you know, anybody who's injured. And
the commanders want to know the number of the injured.
In other words, how many do you have that can't walk,
can walk, and a count. Numbers. You know, I've got 10
women. I've got, you know, 30 women. I've got 10 men.
You know --
DAVID: Well, as soon as, as soon as this is
all done that's when I told him that, that, you know, I
would, I would give all that information out.
JIM: Well, okay.
DAVID: That's what we originally worked out.
JIM: Okay. Well --
DAVID: Is that the women and children would
come. And then, and then the guys would come one by
one with, you know, because it's not that cold now
anyway.
JIM: Okay.
DAVID: Without any bulky jackets or anything
with their hands up. Because that way, you know, it
would be seen that there's no hankypanky or anything
like that on the guys parts.
JIM: Okay. Well, what we're
understand that. And, and we trust you
want to kind of prepare in advance, you
some buses out there so we can take you- oh, I
And we
know, to
together17
just
have
and,
you know, you know, we -- instead of a bunch of cars.
And we were kind of hoping that, you know,
you would lead the way.
might be scared and --
DAVID:
way. I mean --
JIM:
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM:You know, if you can't walk, we'dYou know, some of the folks
Well, I don't know if I can lead the
Well, you can be part of the group.
provide you with a stretcher, and two of your able-
bodied men can, you know, carry you out. And you know,
you'd be a intrical part of the group, you know what
I'm saying?
DAVID: Right.
JIM: Maybe you want to be in the center of
your group and two of your men carrying you out. But I
mean you're there with them.
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: You know, you're the leader and, you
know, we're relying on you. The only reason I'm
asking --
DAVID: Well, what we can do is we can send
O I 18
our guy up to the gate.
JIM: Okay.
DAVID: And if you all will - or, or a
couple of guys at the gate. If you all will hand him,
you know, get him, give him a stretcher.
JIM: Umhum.
DAVID: Then they, then they can, they can
bring me out then.
JIM: Okay. David, it's the right thing to
do.
DAVID: Well, I, I told you, Jim, I would
work something out with you, remember?
JIM: I, I know you did.
DAVID: And I told you, you know, that we'd,
we'd do this -- getting the children out first.
JIM: Right.
DAVID: Right? Then we'd negotiate.
JIM: Right.
DAVID: And you know, like I said, everything
that I try to do is I try to emphasize that the people
that stay with me don't stay with me because of me.
JIM: Um-hum.
DAVID: They stay with me because of the
truth. And unless you know where the truth begins, you
see.
JIM: Yeah.
I O 19
DAVID: Or unless it can be tested by being
out and being around, that's one of
people can see why people stand for
for.
JIM:
DAVID
JIM:
so have we.
DAVID:
lot better than
JIM:
these questions
ymlhmw
DAVID
JIM:the only two ways
what they stand
That's right.
So you know.
Well, David, you've kept your word and
Well, you've been - you all been a
I ever see in the other cases.
And I'll tell you our only reason for
about the people is just logistical,
Uh-huh.
So we can call ahead to the hospital to
say look, we have a man who has an arm wound. We have
a -- you know, David has a wound in his lower abdomen.
You know, so they can prepare to treat you.
DAVID: Right.
JIM:
not I mean there's no secret behind it. AndThat's the only reason. I mean I'm
then
just to have the number of vehicles there. You
remember the glitches we had the other day when the car
wasn't ready. And then the people at the Christian
Broadcast Network, you know, their, their position and,
and you understand the news, okay.
JIM: Their position is that when the
broadcast is over you come out.
DAVID: Right.
JIM: Because they -- they're trying to do
that to help. And if you wait hours after that or
something --
DAVID: No, we're going --
JIM: -- other people will say, you know, it
wasn't because of the broadcast. See that's why I'm
trying to make the plans, you know.
DAVID: Yeah, I see.
JIM: And then also I don't want it to get
dark on us. And that many people getting ready, you
know, with the children, the mothers would take a
little while.
DAVID: Right.
JIM: You know. So I'll tell you what. We,
we if - why don't you do this for me. Go ahead and
get a head count. It's not going to hurt nothing. And
we'll, we'll get in contact with Craig Smith.
DAVID: Well, let me, let me give you an
approximate head count on the remaining children, all
right?
JIM: Okay.
DAVID: Okay, let's see, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7,O I 20
DAVID: Uh-huh .
U Q 2.
8, 9, 10, ll, l2, l3, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, l9 there's
over 20 children remaining.
JIM: Okay, 20 children.
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: How about women?
DAVID: And I have -- to be honest with you,
I have to really count.
JIM: Okay.
DAVID: I don't know.
JIM: Okay. Well, give me --
DAVID: There's a lot.
JIM: -- give me, give me a ballpark. Just
give me an idea. I can - so I can --
DAVID: Forty? Fifty?
JIM: Forty women? Okay. Forty to fifty,
okay.
DAVID: Forty, fifty women. Maybe how many
men approximately?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Forty-five --
DAVID: Forty-five, fifty? Forty-five,
fifty.
JIM: Okay. Forty-five, fifty men?
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: Okay. Now how about --
DAVID: I mean, you know, like there's,
there's over 150 people.
' 0 22
JIM: Okay. I understand. Maybe you could
get Rachel to just go around and get a count.
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: You know. You know, just get a head
count. Tell her to take a piece of paper, just count
everybody. And that will help us with the buses. And
then the, the other thing is especially important is,
you know, people who can't walk, yourself and any
others, can we --
DAVID: Well, I'm the only one that, that
can't walk so --
JIM: Okay. Okay. Well, do -- we can get a
stretcher in there to you, okay? And I --
DAVID: Oh, well let, let two guys bring the
stretchers in.
JIM: Well, maybe we'll have Sita meet them
or something?
DAVID: Have what?
JIM: You know, have Sita meet them at the
gate. Or we'll bring it in to you.
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: We'll work it out.
DAVID: Yeah, okay. You can just meet them
down at the road.
JIM: Well, okay. We can get them to the
gate maybe. And then you could have two guys walk down
I I 23
and get them or something.
DAVID: Yeah. And then, and then they can,
they can bring me out.
JIM: Yeah. Okay.
DAVID: Because like I said, we've got two
nurses here anyway.
JIM: Yeah, okay. We can work that out.
DAVID: Two like RNs, and one of them's just
like a helper nurse.
JIM: Okay. I'll, I'll get something so we
can get that to you so you can get out on that.
DAVID: when was my last blood pressure
check? Does anybody remember? Unidentified female
voice in background not discernible.! Yeah.
JIM: How is it?
DAVID: Could you, could you get her to get
that, that lady and, and see how my blood pressure was
when she last checked it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Ninety Over --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: It was 90 over
40 indiscernible!.
DAVID: Ninety over forty. Okay. Ninety,
something like ninety over forty. I guess I should
have it taken again.
JIM: Well, that's, that's another reason for
us to make these preparations, David. You know what I
mean?", " 24
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: I mean --
DAVID: Well, I started, I started, you know,
we started cleaning the wounds and everything too.
JIM: Okay.
DAVID: And yeah, I heard on the radio the
police officer said that he, he shot me twice in the
stomach
JIM: Umhum.
DAVID: He must have recognized me or
something.
another
get the
there's
just asJIM: I don't know. I don't know. That's
reason not to delay. Because we're going to
message on. And, and once it is, you know,
no reason for you not to get that medical care
quick as we can.
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: And, and --
DAVID: So is KRLD going to be able to -- are
they going to, are they going to connect with this too
or ~-
JIM: Yeah. The tapes are going to KRLD.
Both. KRLD is going to play it.
DAVID: Uhhuh.
JIM: And the Christian Broadcast Network,
I C 25
KBBW.
DAVID: All right.
JIM: So you can get two radios, two into
each one. And they'll both play them.
DAVID: Oh, I see. Okay.
JIM: And I'll alert you ahead of time.
Okay?
DAVID: All right.
JIM: Now we -- we'll keep every one of our
agreements, you know, that we made.
DAVID: And when's this going to start?
JIM: Well, it won't be yet. What
they have to listen to the tape at KRLD, you
not finished listening to it. The Christian
Network listened to it.
DAVID: Right.
JIM: Okay. Now we're - now have
your preamble, okay? You know --
DAVID: Uhhuh.
JIM: - the message we just made,
DAVID: Right.happens is
know, is
Broadcast
dispatched
okay?
JIM: And then Craig Smith's show doesn't
start until a little after 1.
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: Okay, so I mean he's the guy we're
dealing with. So his show's a little after 1
. 26
DAVID: Okay.
JIM: Yeah. Yeah. The and the reason
they got to listen, you know, so they make sure there's
no obscenities on there --
DAVID: Oh, yeah, definitely.
JIM: The FCC rules, you know, say that,
that, you know what I mean.
DAVID: Exactly. Well, I'm not -- I mean -
JIM: That's okay. I understand. I'm just,
I'm just telling you the reason.
DAVID: I mean I tried to make it as, as
simple and as compact --
JIM: We heard it. We heard it. It's great.
DAVID: As much as I - but you know, I just
said, I told you it's very limited on that tape.
JIM: I understand.
DAVID: The wealth of information is really a
thousandfold over that.
JIM: Well, listen. After you walk out of
there and your, your word's going to get out even more.
I'm telling you it's going to get out even more.
DAVID: The truth.
JIM: The truth will get out. When, when you
come out of there even more. So just remember that,
okay?
DAVID: All right.
O O 2,
JIM: And what we have to do now is why
don't you go ask Rachel if she'll make us a head count?
DAVID: Okay. Rach? Go
going to take her a while. It's a
JIM: Oh, I understand.
DAVID: And go get a, all a head count of,and, and -- it's
big place here.
of
all the women and, and the guys too, right?
JIM: Yeah, the guys. And, and tell her
especially if she can tell us about the wounds.
Because we'll alert to, to trauma center, you know?
DAVID: Okay. The two wounds is a guy got a
braise wound on the leg.
JIM: Okay.
DAVID: And, and one guy
in the, in the arm.
JIM: Okay.
DAVID: I mean it's kind
like kind of like what mine is. I
too.
JIM: Okay. You got the
abdomen.got a braise wound
of like in the wrist
got one on the wrist
wrist, the lower
DAVID: Right. It's - but see like I say,
it went, it went, it went kind of towards the side.
JIM: Yeah.
DAVID: And like I said I think it broke
my --
5 9 2.
JIM: Pelvis?
DAVID: - pelvic bone, yeah.
JIM: David, do all the people agree to come
out with your, with your --
DAVID: I, I explained it to them. That's
why, you know, two ladies already came out.
JIM: Yeah. Well, we knew that --
DAVID: I told them I said look, we've got --
there's one thing above all and that is the truth.
JIM: Right.
DAVID: You when Isaiah said, you know, lift
up the voice with the voice. Together shall they sing.
They shall see eye to eye. See, everyone already knows
all those prophecies.
JIM: Umhum.
DAVID: There's seven eyes of the lamb,
right?
JIM: Right.
DAVID: And so there's just, you know, one
complete truth that all the prophets have been
foreseeing, and Ezra didn't want this truth.
JIM: Um-hum.
DAVID: SO ~-
JIM: Well, I was -- I know, I know you
arranged that. And I was, what I was concerned about
that, you know, the place is so --
Q C 29
DAVID: Well, most of, most of like the, most
of the girls, the young girls, you know, they do not
trust they system, you know.
JIM: Oh, sure.
DAVID: So that's why they said, you know,
no, we don't want to go out.
JIM: Um-hum.
DAVID: You know until, until we see it.
JIM: I understand it.
DAVID: Yeah.
JIM: Well, it's a big place, and we were
concerned that everybody in the inside got the word,
you know, and that there wasn't somebody off in a room
that, that didn't get the word, you know.
DAVID: NO .
JIM: Okay. That, that was our --
DAVID: Like I say we'll go, we'll go around
the head count to and --
JIM: Yeah.
DAVID: -- and, and get this all totally
resolved.
JIM: Hey, that --
DAVID: I mean like, like for instance we
just, we just heard a shot a few minutes ago, right?
JIM: You heard a shot?
DAVID: Yeah. But what happened was -- who
O I 3.,
was that? Unidentified voices in background not
discernible.! It was a, it was a guy that he was - he
grabbed a pistol and it didn't have no clip or nothing
in it.
JIM: Oh, it was an accident.
DAVID: And yeah, but you know it's I
thought oh, no. I mean last thing in the world we
need --
JIM: Well, listen you --
DAVID: And he had pulled the trigger. It
didn't have a clip in it, but it had a round in a
chamber.
JIM: Okay. Well, listen, I think that's
something you can look at us. We didn't - we heard
the shot out there. We didn't do anything.
DAVID: Yeah. Yeah.
JIM: You know? And I mean, right?
DAVID: Kind of got a lot of things to tell
you, you know --
JIM: I mean that's how much we trust you.
DAVID: Right.
JIM: That we, we hear a shot. The, the
agents, the FBI, the ATF are out there. They're not
reacting to that, because we told them not to.
DAVID: Well, you're some good guys.
JIM: All right. And I trust you and you
I U 31
trust me.
DAVID: Right.
JIM: And I want --
DAVID: I told you, Jim --
JIM: all the trust, I want all the trust
of everyone in there. Do you --
DAVID: Well, like I say these aren't crazy
people.
JIM: Oh, I know it. We know that.
DAVID: You know, there these are people
that have had high paying jobs that are very highly
intellectual. They ~-
JIM: Hey, we know that.
DAVID: ~ so they're reasoning people. You
know, you might think that the original settlers of
this country were, you know, people that were trying to
obtain freedom because of European oppression, right?
JIM: Umhum.
DAVID: Remember how this government did to
the Indians?
JIM: Right.
DAVID: You know I mean it's - sometimes
it's really a real picture of attitude to really
identify what is really right and what's really wrong.
But that's where the point of reasoning comes in.
JIM: Right.
. O 32
DAVID: And that's what we try to establish
here is --
JIM: Hey, you've been --
DAVID: -- let us reason together the
scripture says.
JIM: That's right. You are on the level.
And you are on the level. That's the kind of guy you
are.
DAVID: Well, this is the way I always try to
teach the scriptures too. Then people jump around and
say that I'm crazy. Now in that tape that I made over
for the Australians which it was actually a tape over
here, the subject it was actually revolvant sic! which
says, you know, they, they play half of it on the tape.
And it says, you know, God says, I'm screaming, right?
JIM: Um-hum.
DAVID: You know. He's got a boogie, he's a,
lamb. And I says you idiots, right?
JIM: Um-hum.
DAVID: Okay? You - people don't know what
had just happened. You know, you know people in the
organization in this message are supposed to walk in
the light of the truth, see. Now if we don't know
what's totally involved in that truth, you know, then
we don't understand why a presentation or an anger can
be made that way.
9 9 .3
JIM: Um-hum.
DAVID: But, but there are certain sins that
just should not be done ~-
JIM: Umhum.
DAVID: - with the kind of information that
we give.
JIM: Um-hum. Um-hum.
DAVID: I mean, you know, you want to talk
about Christ.
JIM: Um-hum.
DAVID: Lifting up his voice 2,000 years ago.
Read the scriptures. You know, and the prophets. They
didn't talk, they didn't talk, you know, but this --
JIM: Hey, David?
DAVID: Go ahead.
JIM: I want to tell you something. I
listened to your message on that tape. And I just want
to tell you that I think you did a great job.
DAVID: Well -
JIM: I, I mean it now. I'm being sincere.
DAVID: It's a small portioning. We'll hear
a lot more afterwards.
JIM: That's right.
DAVID: S0 -~
JIM: Hey, listen. The, the commanders are
asking for me out there for the transportation
O I 3.
arrangements.
DAVID: Okay.
JIM:
take a break soSo let's do this if it's okay. Let's
I can get with them. And, and when you
get the head count from Rachel, will you call me back?
DAVID:
JIM:
DAVID
JIM:
DAVID
JIM:
DAVID
JIM:
DAVID:
JIM:
DAVID:
JIM:
DAVID
just to gain an
JIM:
DAVID
JIM:
call me.
DAVID
JIM:
because we, we want toOkay. You got the number, Steve?
Yeah.
Jim's number.
Here, let me give that to you, David.
Okay.
799- --
799 Rach.
O5 --
Wait. She's, she's writing it down.
Okay.
I got to move real quick, Jim, wait.
Okay. All right.
Groaning.! Takes a lot of effort
inch. Okay, 799 --
0545.
0545.
Okay. After you get the head count
Okie doke.
Okay. And make those arrangements,
get you out right after your
i
92
92I O 35
message is played.
bitDAVID: Okie doke.
JIM: So you can get some treatment.
DAVID: All right.
JIM: Okay, David.
DAVID: Okay, we'll talk to you in a little
JIM: I'll see you, buddy. All right.
DAVID: Okay, thanks --
JIM: Okay, bye.
DAVID: -- bye.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Great.
*>92'*
JIM: David?
RACHEL: This is Rachel.
JIM: Oh, hey, Rachel. This is Jim.
RACHEL: Oh, okay. David's napping at the
moment. So I just called to give you a head count.
JIM: Okay, great.
RACHEL: Okay. Can you hear that loud noise
over the phone I hear?
JIM: Oh, wait a minute. Let me fix it.
Hold on just a minute.
RACHEL: Okay.
[9aP]
JIM: That's feedback in my circuit. I can
hear it.
count.
Still O O 36
RACHEL: Um-hum.
JIM: Okay. Go ahead and give me the head
RACHEL: Okay. There, it's cleared it now.
JIM: Okay.
RACHEL: The men, 43.
JIM: Okay.
RACHEL: Women, 47.
JIM: Okay.
RACHEL: And the children that are left
JIM: Umhum.
RACHEL: - iS 20.
JIM: Okay. All right, now David's asleep.
RACHEL: Um-hum.
JIM: Okay. What we're going to do is we're
going to have everybody walk out.
back with
walk?
or --RACHEL: Uh-huh.
JIM: Not now. You know, I'm going to get
you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: HOW many cannot
JIM: Yeah, how many cannot walk? Just David
RACHEL: As far as I know at this moment.
U O 37
JIM: Okay. Because we you know, I talked
to David, and we got to get him a stretcher.
RACHEL: Uhhuh.
JIM: Hold on one second, Rachel.
RACHEL: Okay.
[gap]
JIM: Okay. All right. Here's the thing.
He's got to have a stretcher. Still there? I lost
her. Rachel?
RACHEL: Yes.
JIM: Rachel?
RACHEL: Yes.
JIM: Oh, okay. David's got to have a
stretcher.
RACHEL: Right.
JIM: Okay? And you know, we're going to let
some of your men get him on the stretcher.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: And Carry him out.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: And that's what we've agreed to.
What's going to happen, though, is we're trying to get
all these logistics done.
RACHEL: Um-hum.
JIM: You know, so we don't have a delay.
RACHEL: Okay.
O I .8
JIM: After the message is played. So here's
what we're going to do.
RACHEL: okay.
JIM: Okay? We're going to send one of these
big armored police vehicles, okay?
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: That you know, so the men won't get
shot in it, you know. Has no gun on it. They're just
going to drive it up and drop the stretcher in the, by
the driveway.
RACHEL: At the driveway, that's at the, the
gate.
JIM: Right, right. That's where David
wanted.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: Okay. Then we've told them to move the
vehicle up the road, okay.
RACHEL: Uhhuh.
JIM: Where you'll be able to see it.
RACHEL: Okay. Who's going to -- you're
going to move it up the road.
JIM: Yeah. We're going to take care of it.
We're going to have it moved away from the stretcher.
RACHEL: okay.
JIM: Up the road. But I told them to put it
where you could see it, okay? You know, so you know
U U .9
it's there. I mean I'm not
Okay?trying to hide it from you.
RACHEL: Just a minute. Just a minute.
Unidentified voices in background not discernible.!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
RACHEL: What was
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
it off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE
doing?
RACHEL: Oh, they
couldn't hear what you wereSPEAKER: What happened?
that?
SPEAKER: They're dropping
SPEAKER: What are you
had an accident here. I
saying.
JIM: What happened?
RACHEL: I don't know.
JIM: Okay. So anyway, let me tell you
what's going to happen.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: So this, this vehicle's going to drop
the stretcher at the driveway.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: And it's going to go on up. And I want
you to alert everybody it's a nonthreatening thing.
It's, it's just the mechanics of getting it there.
RACHEL: Uhhuh.
JIM: It's nothing to worry about. It's
strictly so the, the agents don't get hurt.
there, oka
weapons ei
thing.
know.
stretcher
and get it
it, you caO O 40
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: It's for their protection only, okay?
RACHEL: okay.
JIM: And then they're going to just sit up
y?
RACHEL: Okay. And they don't have any
ther, is that what you said?
JIM: Right. I mean there's no gun on that
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: Okay? But you got to let the people
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: They're not coming out of it.
RACHEL: okay.
JIM: Nobody will come out of it.
RACHEL: They're just going to let the
off at the gate.
JIM: Yeah. Right. Okay?
RACHEL: And then our guys will go up there
JIM: Yeah. I will call you.
RACHEL: Oh, you're going to call after that?
JIM: Well, I'll tell you what. when you see
ll me.
RACHEL: Okay.
O O .1
JIM: when you see it, you call me. l
2 RACHEL: Okay.
3 JIM: But don't get out. I mean you don't --
4 when you see it you just call me.
5 RACHEL: Okay.
6 JIM: And then, you know, we'll tell them
7 that, you know, you're going to send a man or two
8 out --
9 RACHEL: Okay.
10 JIM: - to get it. I don't want you to be
ll surprised or them to be surprised. Everybody knows
12 what everybody's doing.
13 RACHEL: All right.
14 JIM: Okay? How you holding up?
15 RACHEL: Okay. We're doing all right.
16 JIM: Okay. Is David sleeping?
17 RACHEL: Yes.
18 JIM: Okay. Hold on. Let me see if I need
19 anything else. Are you sure this is going to be okay
20 with everybody?
21 RACHEL: As far as I know, that's the way it
22 was planned out before.
23 JIM: Oh, good. Well, look, reinforce it
24 with them.
25 RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: Because we're all concerned for your
I Q 42
safety.
RACHEL: Okay. I'll, 1'11
after I get off the phone.
JIM: Okay. And, and --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER:
do it right now.tell them about it
Let's ask her to
JIM: Yeah. Can you tell everybody while
we're holding on or --
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: Okay.
RACHEL: Just a minute.
[9aP]
RACHEL: Is everybody listening? He wants me
to reiterate indiscernible!. Okay,
send a big armored -- be quiet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER:
RACHEL: Everybody listen.they're going to
Quiet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Quiet.
RACHEL: They're going to send a big armored
vehicle up to the gate. There's not
weapons in the vehicle. And they're
out. They're just going to drive up
the stretcher out the gate, and thengoing to be any
not going to get
to the gate, let
they're going to
drive a little bit past the gate. And then when we see
the stretcher up there, we give Jim a call.
RACHEL: Okay.
U O .3
JIM: Okay. And they're passing the word?
RACHEL: Yeah .
JIM: Okay. Any of the any other children
that need special care?
RACHEL: N0.
JIM: Injured, diapers, bottles, anything?
RACHEL: No. We have plenty of diapers.
JIM: Nothing? You got all that stuff?
RACHEL: Yeah. We have, we have lots of
diapers, plenty of food.
JIM: Okay. Do -- are we talking about any
infants here?
RACHEL: Sorry?
JIM: Any infants in the children?
RACHEL: I'm sorry. I don't understand
the --
JIM: You know, babies.
RACHEL: Oh, infants. I thought you said
incense.
JIM: Yeah --
RACHEL: Yes. We have infants. So we'll
need some car seats.
JIM: Some car seats. Okay. How about a
number? Any idea?
RACHEL: I'll have to find that out how many
car seats.
l
iU I 4.
JIM: Okay. Well, we can see what we can do
on that.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: If not, you know, their moms can be
holding them and stuff.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: Yeah, we'll -- if we have the car seats
by - we'll let, you know, the mother can hold them.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: And what you need -- David was going to
do and be concerned with was getting everybody to have
a coat.
RACHEL: Umhum.
JIM: You know, with that many people,
Rachel, it takes a while.
RACHEL: Well, I think a lot of people, I
don't know if they have those on already or not.
Because
JIM: Okay. Well, you know, David's health
is another time factor.
RACHEL: Umhum.
JIM: And his blood pressure's down.
RACHEL: Umhum.
JIM: He's bled a lot.
RACHEL: Umhum.
JIM: And we talked with him about this, so
O I .5
after we play the radio broadcast --
RACHEL: What time will that be?
JIM: Well, we're, we're probably going to do
it at - as soon as possible but sometime after 1.
RACHEL: okay.
JIM: I will alert you when it's going to
play so you can turn your radio on.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: And then after it's over, you know, our
agreement is that everybody's immediately going to come
out.
RACHEL : Um-hum .
JIM: But I'll have to work the mechanics out
of the actual like how many people at a time.
RACHEL: Um-hum.
JIM: You know, with David so we don't --
RACHEL: So you're going to call after the
program is over? Is that what you're saying?
JIM: Yes. Yes. Okay, no -- we don't want
anybody come out --
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: -- unless we're talking on the phone.
RACHEL: okay.
JIM: Because I don't -- I, I want you all to
be safe.
RACHEL: Okay.
O O .6
JIM: Okay. You can trust me now. You know
that.
RACHEL: All right.
JIM: I'm hoping that they'll -- is it
raining out there?
RACHEL: Just a minute. Is it raining
outside? No.
JIM: Okay. All right. I'd say do this for
me. Just -~
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Time they're
supposed to wake --
JIM: Yeah. Did you have a time that you
were going to supposed to wake David up or --
RACHEL: No. He comes, you know, he comes in
and out of it so.
JIM: Yeah. Is he in a bed or on the floor
or what?
RACHEL: No. He's just laying on the floor.
JIM: Oh, shoot. I'll bet he's hurt.
RACHEL: we didn't have time for that, you
know?
JIM: Yeah. Um-hum. I understand. I
understand. And he --
RACHEL: And then after that he couldn't
move. He's in too much pain so.
JIM: Right.
Q Q 4,
RACHEL: So, he's got plenty of pillows and
blankets. He's laying on, you know, some padding.
JIM: Yeah.
RACHEL: SO .
JIM: will your guys be able to get him on a
stretcher?
RACHEL: Yeah, they should be able to just
fine.
JIM: Okay. Unidentified male voice in
background not discernible.! Yeah. when we hear what
time the radio is going to play it, you know, we'll
call you.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: And then you can wake him then.
RACHEL: Okay .
JIM: But that will be a while.
RACHEL: All right.
JIM: Okay. So maybe he'll get a little good
rest and, and get his strength back.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: And so forth. Hold on. Let me check
on one other thing on that stretcher, okay?
Pause!
JIM: we're shooting for 1:30 on the
broadcast, Rachel.
RACHEL: Okay . 1:30
O I 48
JIM: Now we're going to have to confirm
that. That's what we're shooting for.
RACHEL: All right.
JIM: Now the two channels it's going to be
played on.
RACHEL: Two channels?
JIM: It's going to be played on two
channels.
RACHEL: okay.
JIM: Okay? Let me give them to you so you
know.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: Okay? It's KBBW.
RACHEL: Oh, yes.
JIM: On 1010 AM.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: Christian Broadcast Network. And
that's going, you know, like I don't - hundreds of
stations they have. Okay?
RACHEL: But that's not national.
JIM: Yes, it's national.
RACHEL: Oh, is it?
JIM: Oh, yeah. Uhhuh. Absolutely. We
checked.
RACHEL: Oh, I guess the one on FM is the one
that's not national.
U U .9
JIM: Yeah, the FM. This, this is the big
one.
RACHEL: okay.
JIM: Okay? And then they're also going to
do it on KRLD which is 1080.
RACHEL : KRLT .
JIM: D as in David.
RACHEL: Oh. I'm sorry.
JIM: Yeah. And that's 1080.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: Now you know, if you got two radios
you'll hear it on both.
RACHEL: Yeah, we, we have both.
JIM: Okay. And we're shooting for 1:30.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: So you got to kind of just hang in
there and --
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: - you know, be good for everybody.
Because you know, we can't talk to everyone.
RACHEL: okay.
JIM: So we can only talk to a few, you and
David, you know, and --
RACHEL: Um-hum. All right.
JIM: You guys got to kind of help us
facilitate it.
O I 50
RACHEL: Okay. I'll let everybody know.
JIM: Yeah. And I was hoping they'd move
that truck up there while we were on the phone so you
could tell me you saw it. But --
RACHEL: Oh, you mean on your end?
JIM: Yeah. I mean I was hoping they'd drive
it up there. I passed the word down for them to, to
bring that stretcher up.
RACHEL: Umhum.
JIM: And so, so we could get it in there.
But -
RACHEL: Oh, you mean ahead of time.
JIM: Yeah, you know.
RACHEL: Uhhuh.
JIM: Because, because I'm just
his blood pressure.
RACHEL: Umhum.
JIM: You know, if we have
there, and then we play the message, then
come out we don't have to, you know, deal
RACHEL: Oh, I see. Um-hum.
JIM: Yeah. Yeah, 1:30 is when
the message. Unidentified male voice inworried about
it already in
it's time to
with it then.
we're playing
background
not discernible.! Hold on a second, Rachel.
RACHEL: All right. They're going to try for
1:30. But he's going to call us.
9 U 5.
JIM: Okay, Rachel?
RACHEL: Yes.
JIM: The program on the Christian Broadcast
radio, okay?
RACHEL: Um-hum.
JIM: Starts at 1:06.
RACHEL: 1:06, okay.
JIM: Now that's when they're going to
announce that they'll be playing it at 1:30.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: So you might turn it on at 1:06.
RACHEL: All right.
JIM: And, and the reason they're doing that
they said is to get a wider audience.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: So in other words, instead of just
starting it they're telling everybody this is going to
be on so they can get as many listeners as possible.
RACHEL: All right.
JIM: Yeah. Do you can you see out the
front window?
RACHEL: Yeah, if I get up.
JIM: Okay. Well, I want you to keep an eye
to see if that truck comes up with the stretcher.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: Okay. They, they told me it should be
U I 52
up there momentarily.
RACHEL: All right.
JIM: You know, I mean in a few minutes.
RACHEL: What color is it, camouflage?
JIM: What color? Yeah, it's probably some
big green-looking, you know.
RACHEL: Okay.
JIM: I don't - I haven't seen it. But some
big green-looking truck, you know, you can't shoot
through.
RACHEL: All right.
JIM: You're --
End of tape.!
A w
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPE #l2B
3/2/93
I O 2
start Tape 12B!
DAVID: Don't touch it. Don't touch it
because it's, you know -- someone was touching the cord
and it's jittery.
HENRY: oh, okay.
DAVID: So that what I do is I, I always
teach with questions.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: So I, I teach my students I say now
look, I can't save you, you know. I am not anything as
far as you can see any different from what you can see,
you know.
HENRY : Um-hum .
DAVID: We are not to worship men. So I'll
tell them look, this is a -- I'll make them read the
revelation of who, who gave it to him, what reason.
Then when I take them throughout the revelation, their
eyes are seeing the book. Their mind is developing
pictures so that when we get into the part of the seals
they see very clearly the scripture teaches that none
but the lamb can reveal these things. And I go
now,wait. Right here the lamb reveals it. He reveals
the first seal is a man on a white horse.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: Now you know, what's so hard about
understanding that? Apparently, it seems like he's
I O 3
going to war. Seems like Christ is not only a savior
he's a destroyer. Conquering and conquering. Except
we can't speculate, can we? Of course, they agree with
me. I says now we shouldn't add our opinions. Because
we really don't know the details of this. I says look
here at the second seal. They are given a great sword
that they should kill one another. I said now why, how
does that reveal Jesus? You know, Christ doesn't teach
to kill one another. You know, he teaches love and
turn the cheek, doesn't he?
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: So we can't speculate here.
HENRY : Um-hum .
DAVID: So then when we get to chapter 10
after we begin to read throughout the seven seals the
trumpets start in the seventh seal. My students are
brought to the attention of very strange and weird
symbols or omens which again speculation is not the
facts.
HENRY: Um-hum .
DAVID: Now we get to chapter 10 we see that
sometime during the sixth trumpet John records and I
saw another mighty angel sent from heaven, clothed with
a cloud and as faded as it were the sun. You know, and
his feet as pillars of fire. Stood up on the earth and
sea, had his little handbook opened. And he cries and
O O 4
a lion roareth. When he had cried, seven thunders
uttered their voices.
Now again, we don't know what this is all
about. All we know is that the only thunders we know
about is in God's throne, the lightning, thunders and
voices. We know when the lamb opens the first seal
there is the first thunder. But it says John is told
to seal those things and write them not. But John was
told that the mighty angel swore by the God that
created all things when there's time no longer this
mystery of God will be finished.
So see my students begin to think about those
things. What is this mystery of the, the little book
that's opened? What's this mystery of the, the
revelation of Jesus Christ? And of course the last
chapter when we learn about the river of the water of
life we know that Christ is the Lord God of the holy
prophets. You know, Christ is the one who from the
beginning of time spake into the prophets, because he
is the word of God.
HENRY: Umhum .
DAVID: Made angel or he's the word of God
made flesh. It depends on what the will of the Father
really is. But the keynote is he promised, he says I
sent my angel. And he says I come upwards with me. So
then at that point, my students begin to realize that
O O 5
the coming of Christ has something to do with a
message, a message that only he can reveal.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: So then I ask them well, would you
like to learn the seven seals. Now of course, they
look at me real funny then, don't they?
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: Yeah, see once we get that
established about the judgment that only the lamb can
reveal these things. And when I ask them would you
like me to show you the seals, I won't tell you but
I'll show you, then they look at me real funny like
well, hey, you can't show me these things. And I go
well, that's right, I can't. But Christ can, right?
Well, yeah. I says well, let me show you something
here in chapter three of Revelation. It says these
saith he that is holy. He hath the key of David, he
that openeth, and no man shutteth. I go what is that
key? Of course they don't know. And I go let me show
you. I tell them there's 150 Psalms that David of Ove
phonetic sp.! wrote the Psalms, you know.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: And Christ is the root and offspring
of David, isn't he?
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: God promised David to Christ that one
I I 6
day God would sit on the throne of David in the flesh
of Christ, right?
HENRY: Um-hum .
DAVID: And that was fulfilled in Christ.
HENRY: Yeah .
DAVID: So then I began to take them to the
45th Psalm and I go now let's open this Psalm up, and
let's look at what God's thinking about. when you come
up here to my church, you'll see the Father sitting on
the throne. And the reason why he wants to know who
can reveal his thoughts is because he put his thoughts
down in a book. He does this so that we can receive
mercy and grace instead of wraths or unrighteousness
which is not too righteous.
So then the 45th Psalm begins to talk in
behalf of God. Now I always emphasize at my students
stop looking at me. They've got to look at God. They
got to be in the spirit.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: So then when this 45th Psalm starts
saying my heart is inditing a good matter, you know,
we're looking at the rock, right? We're looking at God
whose got the book, right?
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: And we already know the first seal
pertains to a man on a white horse, right?
O O 7
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: So whose heart? Is it David's heart
or is it God's heart? Well, the scripture says David
was a man after God's own heart. Not in the same
magnitude, but nonetheless the same spirit of the
future. Where the Son of God was to be made manifest
God says his heart's inditing a good matter, he wants
to talk about the things he has made. He's a creator,
isn't he?
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: Touching his king.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: And his tongue is the pen of a ready
writer. So it's written in the book, isn't it?
HENRY: Um-hum .
DAVID: So that we find in Psalms 45 that he
does write prosperously. He does have a bow. He does
have a crown because of truth. Now that doesn't mean
that when Christ comes he's going to come on a white
horse with a bow and shoot people in the heart, in
their heart with an arrow. But it does mean that
there's a truth that must be made known. Because the
real thing to emphasize in that 45th Psalm is when it
says upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of
Ophir.
Now the question is who is that queen? Is
O I 8
she a literal girl, or is she a church? Nonetheless
whether she's literal or spiritual, nonetheless love is
literal. Whether we love Christ spiritually or whether
we love him literally they're one in the same.
Okay, now it says hearken, O daughter, and
consider. Now whether we're a girl or not all of us
who have eyes to see should consider in the 45th Psalm
who God has revealed so that in Revelation 19 when the
marriage lamb comes it's very clear in that chapter who
that man on the white horse is. And it says that he
has a name. Of course, in 19 it says behold, I saw a
white horse, and he that sat upon him, had a crown,
many crowns on his head. He takes those crowns off the
leeches of the earth you'll find in other prophecies.
It says he has a vesture dipped in blood, and his name
is The Word of God. Okay?
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: So the keynote is that we begin to
learn that what the revelation is is it's a ~- well,
look. You know, you know in a movie, when they want to
advertise a movie?
HENRY: Uhhuh .
DAVID: They don't, they don't sit there and
give you 15, 20 minutes of the movie, do they, with
advertisement? What do they give you? A preview,
right?
HENRY: Exactly.
DAVID: Okay. So If the mystery of God, the
seven thunders are the seven seals, if it is to be
finished as God declared to the prophets then found in
the prophecies are the seven seals.
HENRY: Umhum .
DAVID: And you'll find that in the first
seal the truth there is about Christ destroying his
enemies.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: And the only enemies he destroys are
those who are against his truth.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: And that's regarding the marriage
which unitifies sic! humanity and divinity into one
mind. Only God's thoughts are worth anything, you see?
Man's thoughts are vanity.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: But God's thoughts are eternal.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: So through truth, we learn why Christ
says in the Gospel of John when he says my - he's
having a fight with the Sanhedrin, remember?
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: And the Pharisee says my doctrine is
not mine. It's that which I received from my Father.
U 9 1.
HENRY:
DAVID:Umhum.
So he's trying to tell him it's God's
book. he says now if you continue in my doctrine,
you're my disciples indeed. And you shall know the
truth, and the truth shall make you free.
HENRY:
DAVID:
right? We're all
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
seals. We do the
HENRY:
DAVID:
seals.
HENRY:
DAVID:
obedience.
HENRY:
DAVID:Uhhuh.
Now you know no one's free today,
in bondage indiscernible! aren't we?
Um-hum.
So we have to learn these seals.
Um-hum.
Of course, we don't just learn the
seals.
Um-hum.
As we learn the seals, we do the
Obedience. Not just hearing but
Umhum.
So anyway if you ever get a chance to
read the 45th Psalm, look at it, judge it for yourself.
HENRY:
DAVID:
those things kind
HENRY:Okay.
And look at the first seal and see if
of look exactly alike.
Okay. Okay. Now does is Steve
Q Q 11
aware, I'm sure he must be, of your teachings. And
therefore, we must assume that based on your leadership
and your teachings that should you get so sick, you
know, that you can't continue that he will be ready to
assume the responsibility for the rest of the people
that are contained within the --
DAVID: Well, what I'm going to do is I'm
going to tell everybody --
HENRY: Uh-huh.
DAVID: -- what my negotiations with you are.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: And in so doing, everybody will know
that when we have done and completed our work, then
we've done our work and everything, and there's no
reason to die. Because like I say, the truth is to
give life. It's not to give death.
HENRY: Right.
DAVID: And the whole key is this, you know.
Christians in general believe that if they shall serve
God they shall be persecuted.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: But in our generation even though sin
does abound great, is a lot -- let me say this much.
Though sin abounds greatly, more so than ever before.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: The point still is as graced as much
more abound.
HENRY:
DAVID:
to condemn us or", 12
Um-hum.
Remember the seals are not revealed
destroy us. They're, they're revealed
so that all those who profess Christ can come together
into one body.
HENRY:
DAVID:Um-hum.
That's what brings the fall of
confusion. There's too many organizations professing
to believe in one God.
Phone
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
yet there's onlyclicks.!
Yeah.
Oh, it scares me.
Okay.
Professing to believe in one God, and
one doctrine remaining for us to know
to bring us all into unity.
HENRY:
DAVID:Um-hum.
Of the faith. You know, we can't
have faith and, and presumption --
Phone clicks.!
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
Somebody must beHello?
Yeah.
What's causing that?
I don't know. It must be your cord.
stepping on it or pulling at it or
O U 13
something.
DAVID: Right. Okie doke. Okay let me --
HENRY: Now you - because of, because of the
way that you have revealed the seals and, and your
understanding of the Biblical readings, I have to
assume that everybody that's contained within there --
DAVID: There's two plans. God always gives
two ways out.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: You see, God -- see, if you had a
better, if you had a better understanding of the
prophecies. For instance, in Isaiah where it says
behold for the mountains of fear that brings good
tidings.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: It's a sad story of Isaiah 52 and 53.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: Okay. But whereas in Nahum behold
will the mountains - it tells you a different story.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: Not that the two prophecies do not
harmonize. But God has a plan like in Ezekiel where
God says that if I shall pronounce a blessing against a
people, you know, because they've kept my laws, you
know, then if they shall break my laws that the
blessing that I pronounced against them I will take
O I 14
away. And if I also curse a nation than it shall be no
more that I shall destroy. If it turned from its
wicked ways, then will I also turn from my evil which I
have proposed to do and will bless them. So Ezekiel
tells us in 33rd chapter that, you know, God has no
pleasure in the death of the wicked.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: No pleasure.
HENRY : Um-hum .
DAVID: So the thing of it is that like Paul
says in Hebrews 6 he says that, that therefore leaving
the principles of the doctrine of Christ he says, the
doctrine of baptism and resurrection. You know, he's
talking about the simple things. You know, the very
first steps in Christianity. He says let's go on to
perfection not laying again the foundation of these
simple doctrines. You know, the basic things like
Jesus loves me and he died for me, and I must be
baptized. You know, we, we do that once, right?
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: He says for it's impossible for those
who were once enlightened if they shall fall away. In
other words, don't progress with truth, you know.
Peter says be established in the present truth which
means if there's a present truth there must be a past
truth. If, if there's like we might believe the
I O 15
message of Noah now, right?
HENRY: Um-hum .
DAVID: But in the days of Noah, no one
believed it.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: They perished because of unbelief.
HENRY: Right.
DAVID: Now we may believe the message of
Moses, but the message of Moses is over. Those in his
day didn't believe it.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: But you see, now we may believe the
message of Christ 2,000 years ago.
HENRY: Umhum .
DAVID: But of course, when it was being
given nobody believed it.
HENRY: Right.
DAVID: You see that's the whole thing. Now
today we've got one final revelation. Of course, you
know, everyone believes in Jesus today.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: Just like everyone believed in Moses
in Christ's day.
HENRY : Yeah .
DAVID: But maybe they don't know that Christ
like they should.
7
!U U 1.
HENRY: You're right.
DAVID: So you offer them the seven seals,
you know. And well, like 2,000 years ago, you know the
Sanhedrin says to Christ we be not the sons born of
fornication. Sure it's easy today to accept Christ as
a virgin birth, right?
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: But back then the general public view
was that he was born - Mary had had fornication with
somebody.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: You know, so you know, they always
see Christ as lovely and meek but when you, when you
read -- what's going on? Oh. When you read the
gospels, he could throw over some tables at the church,
couldn't he?
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: He was considered radical by a lot of
people.
HENRY: Right.
DAVID: But certain people just pick up
highlights of his nature and don't look at the other
side.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: So when he warns us in the Book of
Revelation, he gives specific counsels to the churches
O O 1,
of Asia, hey, the Lord don't mess around he tells
church of Ephesus. Returning to the first verse there,
I'll take your candle away.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: Now if you walk in darkness, you're
going to end up in hell. You know, Smyrna, Thyatira,
Sardis, they ought to see. He tells them that they're
lukewarm, hot or cold. He says I'll spew you out of my
mouth. who and is that the same Christ we learn
about on the cross? Hey, you just, you just let a man
crucify you once.
HENRY: That's right.
DAVID: And then the thing of it is the guy
says I'm sorry. Okay. Can forgive him. But then he
needs to open his eyes, and he needs to learn a little
obedience, doesn't he?
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: Okay. But the thing of it is if he
turns away from you the second time isn't he crucifying
you afresh?
HENRY: Really.
DAVID: You would think. Okay. So now by
the world turned away from these seven seals just
because I'm ugly or they may think I'm crazy. You
know, I didn't think we're supposed to judge anybody
according to flesh.
U U 1.
HENRY: Really. Well, I think that, that
you're going to reveal the way to, you know, to safety
for, for your people. You know and we're going to of
course afford you the opportunity to make that tape.
Do you think you're going to be working on that very
soon?
DAVID: Yeah. I'm fixing to get on it right
now.
HENRY: Okay. Well, I just want you --
DAVID: This is what I've been wanting for
the longest time.
HENRY: Okay. Well, I want you to know, you
know, that, that I'm your friend. That the people out
here consider you a friend. And although we don't
understand the seals --
DAVID: I realize that.
HENRY: -- as you do, you know, and we may be
going down a different path of servitude than you are,
you know, we still have the same basic goals.
DAVID: As you know Christ, you're supposed
to walk in him. That's what the new covenant teaches
us. But at the same time, you're not supposed to
reject any additional light that comes.
HENRY: That's right.
DAVID: You're supposed to grow into the full
stature of the body of Christ.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: And your faith, virtue,
the knowledge in all his temperance. You
say, we're supposed to grow as Colossians
HENRY: That's right.
DAVID: Receiving the knowledge
it comes. All the New Testament writers,
read those writings again, Romans all the
you'll find all of them are talking about
Christ is going to come and reveal seals.19
virtue and
know, like I
says.
in Him when
if you really
way through,
one day.
That's what
they're all talking about about that knowledge of, of
that God had bodily, you know.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: Talking about the knowledge of the,
of the spirit that's within Christ.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: So seven seals.
HENRY: Okay. I want you --
DAVID:
prophets and apostles are hid in one body
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: One bread and one wine.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID:Because Christ is one body. All the
One truth. So you gentiles are, were
supposed to have an opportunity too in the latter days.
And we're here there now. And you know, why would, why
C Q 20
would Christ come back as a holy and, and perfect
person when you all don't even believe in the law
anymore?
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: Even though the law was nailed to the
cross, wasn't it?
HENRY: That's right.
DAVID: But you know, because the law is
nailed to the cross, now you take a look at the law.
And he, and he says Father, forgive them. S0 how much
more you who stands down at the foot of the cross are
to forgive your neighbor.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: One sinner to another sinner, you
know, should forgive one another.
HENRY: That's right.
DAVID: But even more so we should realize
that that good spirit went into the hand of God and the
word -- there's three that bear record in heaven, the
Father, the word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three
are one.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: And that's where we have to really
pay attention if we want to win the reward of
righteousness.
HENRY: Umhum.
I I 21
DAVID: To realize it in every generation.
They would not hear the prophets because like Hosea, he
had to marry two prostitute wives, didn't he?
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: Okay. Isaiah walked naked and
barefoot. So did Micah.
HENRY : Um hum .
DAVID: I mean God does obstacles like you
would never think someone like, someone like Samson
could be a judge of Israel, could you?
HENRY: That's right.
DAVID: I mean but, you know, he went around
and messed around with Philistine women, didn't he?
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: And the Father says is there never a
daughter amongst my own brethren? And he says no, get
this Philistine girl for me, because she pleased me
well. The scripture says for they knew not that it was
of the Lord. For Lord had an occasion against the
Philistines. You know, just so much stuff in the
scripture people overlook about the mysterious ways.
So back at Christ in his day he says regard
ye amongst the heathen and wonder marvelously. For I
will work a work in your days that you will not believe
though it be told you. And then he talks about
destroying the nations by discovering the foundation
>C U 22
unto the neck. Well, if you didn't know Daniel 2's
prophecy about the image we talked about earlier.
HENRY : Um hum .
DAVID: You would never know what it meant in
regards to discovering the foundation. What is the
foundation? Well, the foundation of the Kingdom of God
is in truth. And the truth is in the days of these
kings, Daniel says, God's tolerance of the gentile
nation's ruling over his people is over. God's going
to gather back the hundred and four thousand. God's
going to choose the Jews. Because the gentiles are
going to do worse to a Messiah who comes, who comes to
teach the truth than what the Jews did 2,000 years ago.
And I would do anything to avoid that, to keep that
from happening.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Okay?
HENRY: But, but help me --
DAVID: So let me get this tape --
HENRY: -- help me understand what your role
is. You are -- with respect to revealing the seals.
Is it the lamb?
DAVID: Well, remember, the lamb - well,
look, in Psalms 4, that will tell you who I am.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: See, Psalms 1, Psalms 2, remember the
anointed one, the
HENRY:
DAVID:
asunder.
HENRY:
DAVID:
word.
HENRY:
DAVID:' 23
heathen rage?
Umhum.
And they say let's break their bands
Umhum.
What ties the Son to the Father? The
Umhum.
And what portion of God's word has
been sealed? Seven truths of the Bible, right?
HENRY:
DAVID:Umhum.
Okay. Now the challenge is for
anybody in the world, my friend.
HENRY:
DAVID:Okay.
Anybody. So in Psalms 3 the Psalm
goes on to say Lord, how are they increased to trouble
me. For they be many that rise up against me. There
be many say of my soul. There's no help for him in
God. But it also says I'll be not afraid of ten
thousands of people that have set themselves together
against me round about.
In Psalms 4 it says help, Lord. It says hear
me when I call, O God of my righteousness! Then it
says O you sons of men, how long will you love vanity?
How long will you turn my glory into shame? How long
will you seek after leasing? He tells them, he says
I
92U Q 2.
but you should know that God has separated him apart
that is godly for Himself. The Lord will hear when I
call unto him. Yes, stand in awe and sin not. Serve
the Lord with fear. Rejoice with trembling. You see?
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: Meditate upon your own bed.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Now see the thing of it, that Psalm,
all the Psalms are a dialogue of Christ. You see, the
sons of men turn his glory to shame, because they don't
know where he's coming from.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: You know, who has God separated apart
that's godly for Himself? Who? Christ.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: And heaven, Christ. But when he
comes again according to what's written with the bands
and the seals.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: And the by the book is written of me,
they're not going to know what God has already said,
because they're not going to listen to what God says.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: Only what God says can reveal who we
are.
HENRY: Umhum.
' ' 25
DAVID.
of God or we're
HENRY
DAVID
that way --
HENRY
DAVIDAnd either we are with the same wheel
not.
Yeah.
Okay. So I'll make this tape and
Good.
- people can copy it, and they can
go over it a few times.
HENRY: Good. Good. What I want you to do
if you would, please, David, is work on getting the,
the tape. Concentrate on that. Save your energy, you
know. Concentrate on that.
DAVID: Well, I'm going to have a little
chicken soup now I think.
HENRY: Okay. Is -- can, can I work with
Steve in, in terms of getting the, the children out?
DAVID: Well, like I said, you know, let's
make this arrangement. Let's get this tape done. And
what time is it
comes to time.
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
o'clock inanyway? I'm, I'm upside down when it
It's about a quarter after 1.
Oh, it's already 1 o'clock, huh?
Um-hum.
Well, can we start this again at 6
the morning? Is that all right?
HENRY: Well, you know, there are just so
many children.
DAVID
them here. But
for me now.
HENRY
DAVID
doing it now to
in Jim.
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
you're going to
tape played andC 2.
I know there is. There's a lot of
you said you was going to do something
Yes.
And I was doing this the way I'm
see what kind of trust I could develop
Well, now --
You know.
Well --
And so now here's the deal. Now that
do this for me like I say we hear this
everything. Then like I say we're
going to send them all out.
HENRY: Okay. Now --
DAVID: At one time. Now you, now you do
you believe that?
HENRY: I believe that. But I also believe
and I'm holding to your word that you're coming out as
is everybody else. Not just ~~
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVIDI'll have to be carried.
Well, we'll carry you out.
Okay.
NOW --
Now if you want, like I said, to show
I O 2,
my good faith, I'll send two more out now.
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
you know,
DAVID:
HENRY:Okay, good.
Okay?
Okay. I want to tell you something.
I don't want you to come in --
Just to show you my good faith is,
we called KRLD.
Uhhuh.
There's nobody answering the phone
there. So we're sending somebody there --
DAVID: Well, there's one number over the
line that can - the normal number they won't answer
right now. So, yeah, okay. So if you sent someone
there that's fine
HENRY:
send somebody out
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
after the tape is
DAVID:
HENRY:
that correct?
DAVID:
HENRY:Um-hum. Okay. Now are you ready to
now?
Yeah.
Okay.
You got the van there?
When everybody comes out, you know,
played, that means everybody.
Everybody.
Men, women, children, everybody. Is
That's correct.
Okay. And then we'll have to come in
and bring
what I'm on right
got hit.
feel the,Q 28
you out.
DAVID: Yeah. Because like unless see
now is like I said, you know, when I
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: Took everything in my power to just
to crawl, okay?
HENRY: Well, no, we don't want you to crawl.
DAVID: And finally -- well, let me explain.
Finally what happened was I couldn't, I just -- I mean
everything was getting numb.
HOW .HENRY: Yeah.
DAVID: So I finally ended up where I'm at
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: And that just, that was it. I
couldn't go no more.
a -- whatHENRY: Okay.
DAVID: And so, you know, it's like we got
s this thing called, a sponge? A sponge kind
of, you know, halfway on the sponge.
got this -HENRY: Yeah.
DAVID: My back halfway on a pillow.
HENRY: Yeah.
DAVID: You know, on blankets. And then I
U U .9
HENRY: Okay. Now --
DAVID: Towels or sheets wrapped around my
holes in my stomach.
HENRY: Okay. Now how much time do you want
us to give you to make the tape?
DAVID: Well, like I say, we should, we
should have something done by at least 6 in the
morning.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Is that all right? Unidentified
male voice in background not discernible.! I mean
because, because see, no one's, no one's going to want
to play it for, you know, for any more than 30 minutes.
That's just the way even, even standardized, you know,
short sermons are no more than 30 minutes. So in order
for me to be able to, to make my statements clear, I'm
going to have to, you know, take a breath, and I'm
going to have to speak as clear as I can.
HENRY: Okay. I --
DAVID: You know, and then I'm going to have
to stop it. We're going to have to, to edit it and,
and code it and then put it all together to where it
doesn't - because I don't want to sound like making
panting noises! you know.
HENRY: Yeah, right.
DAVID: I don't want, I don't want - that
I O 30
could be distracting.
HENRY:
I don't know how weak you are. You know, thereOkay. I just have a concern, because
EIB
times when you sound okay and there are --
DAVID:
you're doing this
HENRY:
DAVID:
weakness. I used
HENRY:
DAVID:
runner.
HENRY:
DAVID:Well, I feel a lot better now because
for me.
Okay.
It's, you know, one thing about human
to run track.
Umhum.
And I used to be a longdistance
Okay.
And the thing of it is is that when
you start seeing that final stretch, you know, and you
pace yourself.
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
you know, you get
HENRY:
DAVID:Umhum.
It's a mental thing.
Okay.
Then that last little bit of stretch,
this new wind.
Um-hum.
And what you're doing for me, right,
this is what I told Jim. I said Jim, I got something I
want to work out with you. And we was going to talk
about it as I was, you know, finding out if this man
U U 31
was going to be fair with me. And so far he has been.
It's been a couple of times things seemed kind of shaky
but, you know, we have get a bit of doubt on both
sides.
So anyway, like I say, I'm going to get some
chicken soup. I haven't eaten anything for, for 2 days
now.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: And except I just drink a little
orange juice to wet my mouth. But I'm going to get
some chicken soup. And we need to send a couple of
children out to you now.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Because it's getting kind of late.
HENRY: How about if we do this? How about
if we go ahead and send the van in to, to pick up the
kids.
DAVID: Uhhuh .
HENRY: And why don't I call you at about 5
o'clock?
DAVID: Okay. Unidentified male voice in
background not discernible.! All right. Let me get
that. Groaning.! Uhoh, now I can't get -- now don't
hit me, but reach over there and get it. It fell down
the side of me. Okay. All right.
HENRY: What I'd like to do is maybe call you
I O 32
in a couple of hours to see how you're doing.
DAVID.
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
from there.
DAVID:Okay.
And see where we're at at that point.
All right.
And then we'll, and then we'll go
Okay. Let's see here. Unidentified
voice in background not discernible.!
HENRY: And, and hopefully by then I can tell
you how we're doing with the radio stations.
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID.All right.
which kids are you going to send out?
We're going to send out Joann.
J0 --
Joann.
Joann.
JOANN.
Okay.
And Natalie.
Natalie?
Yeah.
How old are they?
Joann is about what 7?
Okay.
And Natalie's about what, 7, 8?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Nine.
l. i, 33
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Think she's 9. Natalie, okay.
HENRY: How many, how many will that leave
still in there?
DAVID: Well, like I said I'm not, I'm not
giving those numbers out.
HENRY: Oh, okay. Okay.
DAVID: But I'm going to, I'm going to
definitely prove to you that you all's records about
how many kids we had in here is not true.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: I mean, you know, you all broke my
heart when those ATF agents - but I told them, I said
look. I said get back. There's a lot of women and
children here. It's a big place.
HENRY : Um-hum .
DAVID: You know, and the numbers that
they - the numbers they've been having on the radio is
nowhere near the number as to what's here.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: You know, there's --
HENRY: okay.
DAVID: - a lot of women and children and,
and
HENRY: Okay. Okay. Okay, well --
DAVID: Just alone in the children we've
already, we've alO 3,
ready given you more than what they
say there was, huh?
HENRY:
because they're r
DAVID:
HENRY
couple of hours
DAVID:
HENRY
the, on that tape
DAVID:
I'm just - all I
take a breath -
will come out cle
HENRY:
DAVID:
to be a good tape
HENRY:
the kids get here
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID:
uO HENRY
DAVIDOkay. I'm going to send the van
eady, okay?
Okie doke.
And then, and then I'll call you in
and see how you're doing.
All right.
You concentrate on working on, on
Like I say, I just narrate it. So
all I got to work do is like I say
- well, when I eat the chicken soup it
arer.
Okay.
S0 like I say, I want it to, want it
Okay. I'll probably call you when
just so that you know, okay?
Okie doke.
Okay.
Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Bye.
Byebye.
All right. Wait, wait.3
HENRY:
DAVID:I I 35
Yeah.
Okay. So we're sending them out
now -- getting them ready? Is the van already there?
there in about 60
minute.
to wake these two
together.
procedure
line, youUNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The van will be
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
by now
HENRY:
DAVID:
know.
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:seconds.
It will be there in about, in about 1
Okay, so now they've got to - we got
up, okay?
Okay.
Get - you know, get their clothes
Okay.
I'm, I'm sure you all understand the
Yeah.
These kids aren't standing all in a
Okay.
Okay.
That's not a problem.
Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye.
***
SCOTT
HENRY
SCOTT
HENRY
SCOTT
HENRY
0
0 SCOTT
HENRY
SCOTT:
HENRY:
SCOTT:
HENRY:
SCOTT:
background not discernible.! which - what kids wentHello?
Hello?
Yes.
Steve?
My name is Scott.
Scott? This is Henry.
Henry?
How are you doing?
I'm fine.
We have the, the kids here.
Yes. That's good.
Does somebody want to talk to them?
Hold on. Unidentified voices in
out? Was it Joshua?
HENRY:
UNIDENTI
Natalie.
HENRY:
UNIDENTI
HENRY:
SCOTT:
mother? It's Nata
kids are, are you?
HENRY:NO.
FIED MALE SPEAKER: Natalie.
Natalie and --
FIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Joann.
Joann.
Okay. Hold on. Where's their
lie. You're not where all the other
I'm sorry.
SCOTT: All the kids aren't where you are,
I I 3,
are they?
HENRY NO.
SCOTT: Oh, okay. Because two of my
daughters went out, and I wanted to talk to them. But
if they're not there.
HENRY
SCOTT
Crystal Sonobe.
HENRY
SCOTT
HENRY
when they came outwhich ones?
Angelica Sonobe phonetic sp.! and
That was a while ago.
Pardon?
I think that was a while ago when,
0
SCOTT: Yeah, they were the first ones out.
Unidentified male voice in background not
discernible.!
HENRY: When?
SCOTT: I think they were the first.
HENRY: Oh, okay. Okay. Unidentified male
voice in background not discernible.! Yeah, no --
SCOTT
HENRY
SCOTT
HENRYOr second.
they wouldn't be here.
Yeah. So how are you doing?
Unidentified male voice in
background not discernible.! Um-hum. You're Scott,
right?
SCOTT: Yeah.
HENRY:
these kids?
right here
speakingSCOTT:
HENRY:
SCOTT:
HENRY:
SCOTT:
HENRY:
TERESA:
HENRY:
TERESA:
HENRY:
TERESA:
HENRY:
TERESA:
HENRY:
TERESA:
HENRY:
TERESA:
HENRY:
NATALIE
TERESA:
NATALIE
TERESA:Okay. Does somebody want to talk to
Yeah. Hold on. Natalie's mother's
Okay.
Thanks a lot, Henry.
Okay.
Take care.
You too.
Hello, this is Natalie's mom
I'm sorry?
Hello, this is Natalie's mom
Natalie's mom?
Yeah.
What's your name? Hello?
Hello?
Yes. You're Natalie's mom?
Yes.
What is your name?
Teresa Nebrega phonetic sp.
Hold on, Teresa.
Hi, Mommy.
Hi, darling. How are you?
Fine, thanks.
You get there okay?!
children?NATALIE
TERESA:
NATALIE
TERESA:
NATALIE
TERESA:
NATALIE
TERESA:
NATALIE
TERESA:
NATALIE
TERESA:
NATALIE
TERESA:
NATALIE
TERESA:
NATALIE
HENRY:
TERESA:Yeah.
Well, are you with Joann or other
With Joann.
Just with her?
Um-hum.
What is it like there --
Huh?
Is it nice?
Yeah. It's big and huge.
Anyway I love you. Take care.
Yeah.
Bye. See you soon.
Giggling.! See you.
Okay. I love you.
Love you too.
Bye.
Bye.
Hello?
Hello. Hold on. I'll
speak to Joann's mother now.
HENRY:
[gap]Okay.
MARGARITA: Hello?
HENRY:
MARGARITA: This is Margarita. I'm Joann'sHello. Who is this?get you to
O O 40
mommy.
HENRY: I'm sorry?
MARGARITA: This - my name is Margarita.
I'm Joann's mother.
HENRY: Hold on a second, Margarita.
MARGARITA: Thank you.
JOANN: Hi, Mommy.
MARGARITA: Hi, darling. Are you all right?
JOANN: Yeah.
MARGARITA: Now remember tell them you want
to go to see your sister.
JOANN: okay.
MARGARITA: Okay? Is that all you have to
tell Mommy? You all right?
JOANN: Yeah.
MARGARITA: They treat you good there?
JOANN: Yeah.
MARGARITA: Okay. You take care now. Now
remember to tell your sister --
JOANN: Okay.
MARGARITA: - and everybody loves you.
Remember to tell your sister about David Koresh, now,
your Daddy.
JOANN: okay.
MARGARITA: Okay? You be good now.
JOANN: Okay.
O O 41
MARGARITA: Ask them to call your sister now
JOANN: Okay.
MARGARITA: Okay. You be good.
JOANN: Okay.
MARGARITA: All right. Kissing noises.!
Love you.
JOANN: Love you.
MARGARITA: See you on the other side.
JOANN: Okay.
MARGARITA: Byebye.
JOANN: Bye.
MARGARITA: Hello?
HENRY: Hello?
MARGARITA: Do you need to talk to anybody
else?
HENRY: Yes. Is Scott still there?
MARGARITA: Yeah. Thank you for taking care
of my daughter.
HENRY: You're welcome.
MARGARITA: Okay. Do I does she got
the instruction that I need her to be sent to my other
daughter.
HENRY: What, what's your other, other
daughter's name?
MARGARITA: Ursula Gorman phonetic sp.!.
She's got that - I pinned her address and everything
I l, 42
in her coat. Can you see that? Just don't lose it,
address.
HENRY: Oh, okay.
MARGARITA: If you call her right now
whenever available, you know, she'll get her.
HENRY: What is see you on the other side?
MARGARITA: Pardon?
HENRY: What does that mean?
MARGARITA: Oh, well, see you again soon.
HENRY: I'm sorry?
MARGARITA: See you soon. You know the term
HENRY: when you come out?
MARGARITA: Yeah.
HENRY: Oh, okay.
MARGARITA: Okay?
HENRY: Okay.
MARGARITA: I'll see you soon.
HENRY: Okay.
MARGARITA: You know, when we have different
slang for different thing.
HENRY: I see.
MARGARITA: Okay?
HENRY: Okay.
MARGARITA: All right. Just a minute.
Unidentified male voice in background not
discernible.!
SCOTT
HENRY
SCOTT
HENRY
you know?
SCOTT
had to find one
HENRY
SCOTT
HENRY
tape --
SCOTT
HENRY
so that everybody
SCOTT
HENRY
SCOTT
HENRY
SCOTT
HENRY
SCOTT
HENRY
it, then we're,O .3
Yeah, hold on, Henry.
Hi, Scott.
Yeah.
Is David working on making a tape do
Yeah. He just got a recorder. We
that he could hold up and talk into.
Okay.
We just got one.
Okay. You know, when he makes a
Yeah.
- we've, you know, we worked it out
s going to be coming out.
Huh? Right. Well --
Okay.
- after you got to play it first.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yes, yes. Oh, absolutely.
All right.
Yeah. As soon as, as soon as we play
you know, he's given me his word that,
that everybody's going to be coming out and, you know,
and we're going to do this in an orderly fashion to
assure that nobody gets hurt.
Q U .4
SCOTT: Right.
HENRY: Okay. Is everybody in the place
understand that?
SCOTT: Oh, hold on. David? Henry said that
you made an agreement with him that once he plays the
tape everybody's going to come out? Want to talk --
unidentified male voice in background not
discernible.! Yeah.
Yes. He said you play it national and we'll
come out.
HENRY: Well, we're going to have to - is
he, is David there?
SCOTT
HENRY
second.
SCOTT
HENRYYeah. Want to talk --
Okay. Let me talk to him for a
Okay. Hold on.
Thank you, Scott. Unidentified male
voices in background not discernible.!
[9613]
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVIDOkay.
David?
Yeah.
How are you doing?
I'm getting this thing ready here.
We've been having some difficulty with the main board.
We got a Toshiba and TAS phonetic sp.! cam, a studio
O O 45
series 2416 and it's, it's kind of like it's been kind
of a wild wiring process here.
HENRY: Umhum.
DAVID: Because you know, we don't put this
equipment where we're at right now.
HENRY: Ukay.
DAVID: But anyway, yeah, we got, we got a
tape going and stuff. And it's I'm fixing to start
up here.
HENRY: Okay, good. I wanted to bring you up
to date. And what we've done is we've contacted KRLD.
DAVID: Right. I've been kind of halfway
listening to it turned way down but --
HENRY: Okay. And as soon as we get the
tape, we're going to have KRLD play it, okay? In
addition to them, the National Christian Broadcasting
Network is going to play it.
Now the, the thing that I want to tell you
about that is they're going to play it from 10 o'clock
to 3 o'clock, you know, more than once, several times.
But, you know, that's Phoenix time. So we're talking
about ll o'clock there, you know, before we, before we
get it here.
But we're going to give it to KRLD as soon as
we get it. And that's going to go over, you know,
their network, and I'm sure other people are going to
0 O .6
start picking it up.
DAVID: Okay. Let me, let me see now. S0
when, when -- it's going to first be played at KRLD?
HENRY
DAVID
be at what time
HENRY
more than once,Right.
So that's local. But it's going to
at night?
No. I mean if you want it played
well, you know. Once they play it once
they're going to everybody's going to be picking it
up and it's going, it's going to be played, you know,
time and time again.
DAVID: Okay. But, but the question is is
that, okay, KRLD's going to play it first.
HENRY
DAVID
right?
HENRY
Because you asked
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID:Yes.
Just because of local curiosity,
well, not because of local curiosity.
it, I mean you told me that --
Exactly. I understand. But -~
Okay.
-- but when is - what time are they
going to play it?
HENRY
DAVID
real, it's real
HENRYAs soon as you give it to me.
Oh, I see. Okay. But of course it's
late now.
Well, no --
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
than once.
HENRY:
o'clock, whatever
DAVID:
HENRY:
realize that.
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
going to play it?
HENRY:
play it from 10 o
DAVID:
HENRY:IU .7
Okay, but that's all right anyway.
I mean, you know, like --
Because they'll probably play it more
Like, like if we get it at, at 5
they'll start playing it then.
Right.
And they'll continue playing it, you
Okay.
Okay, and then --
But when is, when is the national
Well, they told us that they will
clock to 3 o'clock. But that's --
In the morning.
Huh? Yes. But that's, that's in,
that's Arizona time which means it will be ll o'clock
here when, you know, when you start --
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:Eleven to --
Until, until 4.
Right. Okay. Okay.
Now how are you feeling?
Like I said it's, you know, I'm weak
but still I feel better. I mean, you know, I mean
physically, yes. But you know, spiritually I feel a
lot better.
HENRY: Okay.I ,8
Well, I have a concern about
your health. And I've been talking to some of our
medical people. Okay? And I don't have any - I don't
have a real good idea, and I'm sure you don't right
now. Because, you know, because you're like you told
me you've got like a sponge or a thing, you know, and
then the pillow or whatever. But you know, I don't
know how much blood you've lost and you, you know. Of
course you told me that when you cough
DAVID: People, people were saying that, they
were saying that they didn't think because I was
talking so strong and all of that for a while that,
that I'd actually been shot. But then tonight on the
news one of the SWAT team officers said that he was the
one that shot me. He, he shot me twice. So that
confirms it.
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
the, you know
HENRY
DAVID
HENRYQ
0
0
IWell --
I mean I --
The --
-- I was just, I was just looking out
The, the concern that I have --
the way there but --
Yeah. The concern that I have is I
don't know, you know, I don't know how much permanent
O I ,9
damage is, you know, the, the wound is causing. And
the fact that you're not getting medical attention.
DAVID:
religion? what'swell, look. What's the foundation of
man afraid of above anything in the
world? What's man afraid of by nature?
HENRY:
DAVID:
scripture says in
from the grave soDeath.
Death. Exactly. Okay? So the
Hebrews that Christ died and rose
that he would have power over him
that had power over dead which was the devil and redeem
them who through their lives were afraid of death and
therefore subject to bondage.
See, some people in religion I mean like the
Jews back in those days, they were so afraid of dying
and being punished of God that they didn't really see
the real meaning of the law. The law was a revelation
of a divine nature. And they didn't understand the
prophets how the law was to be properly interpreted.
They didn't really look to the animal sacrifices for
what it really meant. You know, killing a lamb is
really a dramatic
HENRY:
DAVID:
has to die.
HENRY:
DAVID:thing.
Um-hum.
You know, it's sad something innocent
Um-hum.
Because you did something wrong. But
i
O O 50
the, but the main key goes way back to Cain and Abel.
You know, Cain didn't want to kill the lamb, did he?
No, he wanted to bring his own fruits, right?
HENRY: Right.
DAVID: But when God blessed Abel and didn't
bless Cain, Cain could kill his brother,
HENRY: Um-hum.couldn't he?
DAVID: So you see this story repeats itself.
So those who do what God wishes, you see, according to
God's word, they're like Abels. And those who do not
do God's wishes, well then they're like Cains.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: So now the question right now between
us and you guys was which one was the Cain and which
one was the Abel?
HENRY: Well --
DAVID: You know. Or maybe we
and the same .
HENRY: Um-hum. Well --
DAVID: But ~-
HENRY: The one concern that I
know, you've put a lot of time and a lot
your cause, okay? And we feel that it's
you and to the, to your followers to getwere both one
have is, you
of effort into
important to
this message
out. Okay? And I don't want - I have a concern that,
that you may be getting weaker or whatever, and you
4
1
l
I C 51
haven't finished your tape. I want you to concentrate
on working on that tape. But --
DAVID: I will --
HENRY: ~ let me ask you this. And - when
I was talking to one of the ladies there earlier, she
indicated that there's some nurses in there that may
be, you know, kind of looking out after you.
DAVID: Well, they've been like changing
these ~ we've been using like sheets.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Off a bed and wrapping it around,
tied it up, and then it gets wet. So then we ~ if I
lay still for a while and if I don't laugh I mean this
is not funny like I'd be laughing but --
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: You know, sometimes you laugh for
nothing better else to do. But if I don't laugh and if
I don't cough, then it stops bleeding.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: But if I move a certain way or laugh
or especially cough, then boy it starts coming out
again.
HENRY: Okay. Well, we're concerned about an
infection, and we're concerned about you going into
shock. You know, now I want you to go ahead and finish
your tape.
I I 52
DAVID: I'm working on it.
HENRY: Additionally, you know, does anybody
in there have a, a blood pressure cup that they can
take your blood pressure?
DAVID: Oh, yeah.
HENRY: You, you have one?
DAVID: Oh, yeah. We've got, we've got --
End of tape 12B.!1