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FEDERAL: BUREAU OF INVE-STIGATION
ABBIE HOFFMAN
SUMMARY!
PART 22 OF 26
BUFILES:100-449923 & 176-34
SUBJECTi *AB13fOTT H. HOFFMAN
FILE um i __
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UNITED STATES GOV|,:&NMENT "~
Memorandum
T0 = Assistant Attorney General DATE 1°/9/59
CRIHIHAL DIVISION
---- - - __- ATTENTION; IR- GUY L- GOODWIHIll-JI"l 2 ---------- -~-- ~__ -_- f-
sus_1£c'r; LBBOTI HOWARD HOFFMAN, AKA
LNTIRIU1 LAYB FILE copy
1-3| =. - - -I .1-,-. , --
your file
There is enclosed one copy of the report of Special
dated
A. [::]This covers the preliminary investigation and
no further action concerning a full investigation will be taken
by this Bureau unless the Bepartment so directs.
B. Eij The investigation is continuing and you will
be furnished copies of reports as they are received.
C. [::] The investigation requested by you has now
been completed. Unless advised to the contrary no further in-
quiries will be made by this Bureau.
D. [__1 Pursuant to instructions issued by the Depart=
ment, no investigation will be conducted in this matter unless
specifically directed by the Department.
E. I lfleaae advise whether you desire any further in
vestigation.
F. [:1 This is submitted for
will be advised of further developments.
G. D This is submitted for
further investigation will be conducted
quested by the Department.
' H. [21 This covers the receipt of a complaint and no
further action w ll be taken by this Bureau unless the Department
di t .so rec 8 Iota: Inclonod is 1 copy of a book by subject
~ - entitled !oodstee: Qstion. A eopy is being iurnishodwe '1 to tho U. 8. Attorney st Chicago.your information and you
your information and no
unless specifically re-
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FROM: sac, PHILADELPHIA 76-3n!
SUBJECT: gggowm nownnlaorrmnn AKA
00: NEW YORK
929292 .. .. ....- --!{_,¬; Y!
ne uureau LLIUE.I. 1:0 1"D1.l.&ClBJ.pI118 iu/5/09.
Enclosed for the Bureau are two copies, and for
Chicago for
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" by ABBIE HOFFMAN as
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Documenttsl originating with the following govemment agencyliesi _ é _i _ _ _ _ l_ _
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Pagetsl referred for consultation to the following govemmenl agencyliesl; ________.._.____._.___
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Pagelslwithheld for the following reasonlsl: This document. which is a carbon copy,
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For your information: _ _ _ _ _
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/1%Re Detroit airtel to Director, dated 7/22/69, 1"
captioned as above.-v
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Lou
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WKBD~TV on 7/14/69.transcript
on 7/30/69, by
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/Ahh92'- Bureau E c.-11HRM-J
- Chicago Enc.-2! 76-28! RM!
New York Enc.-2! 76-6! RM!
troit
157-1632!
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October 7, 1969 H;__ _,- - g nn§_;T ". .'.- .- .-_ ,__.r92-_,,__.'r__4.}
e DA"! E _r=_%.1. 1; E31;/o-.mc/4_:._;__ Re: §o¥%Gordon Teleyisign Show of
u I 1969: *MicjiIgan@
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall
The following is a transcript from a tape of the
Lou Gordon Television Show of July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan.
This show appeared on WKBD-TV. The individuals mentioned herein
are sufficiently characterized. - j
Characterizations of the Minutemen, Students For A
Democratic Society SDS!, and the Black ?anther Farty EFF!,
appear in the appendix attached hereto.
Tonight we are going to have a lengthy discussion
on the subject of extremism in_America. we have
three representatives, one from the right wing,
one from the left wing and one who is an expert on 'extremism. Introduxéng them from right to left _[QLEét
is-first, Mr. Jame reed who has earned a reputation
for himself in the Detroit area as a dedicated right
wing extremist, he urges having firearms as insurance
against upcoming confrontations. He is National
Secretary of the Patriotic Party, the party that
George Wallace disallowed last year, he is closely
associated with the Minutemen, Mr. Freed's
major project now is his fight with the Internal
Revenue Service. He has not paid taxes for the
past three years and I think their motto is resistance
to the end, as it is with th l ft wing. Our nextguest on the panel is Gordqniagl of Boston _a§§a=_- chusetts, an expert on extremism. R55§§§fW§igh,_ M_L
head of the ultra c nservative John Birch Society, '
has called Mr. Ha "a 'amily character promoting _
Comunism. Gu all, leader of the Communist Party
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-92 . Q Q
Lou Gordon Television Show of
July l3, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall
"in this country, says about our Mr. Hall, I know
all about this character, Gordon Hall, this paid
police agent, let me make it clear we are in no
way related either by blood or ideologically. The
late George Lincoln Rockwell, Commander of the
American Nazi Party, said about our guest the
lowest vilest man I know, I can't wait to throw him in
the gas chamber myself. And the late Malcom X
said about Mr. Hall, he is nothing but a white
mercenary. The se are pretty strong words coming
from both sides. And our left wing extremist is
Abby Hoffman, one of the leading symbols of the
new radical left; He founded the Yippies and has
been instrumental in the disruptions in Chicago
last summer, during the Democratic convention. He
has been arrested 40 times and faces a possible l0
year prison term for inciting riots in Chicago.
His defiance and guerrila tactics are spelled out
in his new book 'Revolution For the Hell Of It
which appears to be Mr. Hoffman's philosophy toward
our society. Mr. Hoffman holds a Masters degree
in Psychology from the University of California
at Berkeley and will be remembered for his appear-
ance before the House Unamerican Activities Committee
last year with an American flag draped around his
chest. Mr. Hall, let's begin with you if we may.
what do you consider the dangers of entremism inthis country? ' '
Oh, I think probably, more than anything else, the _
capacity for violence. You take Mr. Freed's
Minutemen, he may deny that he is a Minuteman, I
don't know, we'll have to wait and see. But they're
obviously a terrorist group and in the Patriotic
Party. They are a white terrorist society in my
judgment and I think it is pretty obvious from your
own description of Mr. Hoffman the kind of thing
that his group will do from time to time. Disrupt,
use anti-democratic methods against an essentially
democratic society, whatever, the faults may be of
that society and so I think the main problem, the
main danger if there is any real serious danger
is the violence - obviously. .
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|,.'>- rr-_ 5,7July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall
"Gordon
"Hall:
y "Gordon
"Freed:
92-
"Gordon
"Freed:
"Gordon
"Freed:: Do you see any danger of fascism resulting from
Mr. Freed's efforts or Communism or revolution
resulting from Mr. Hoffman's efforts.
No, not really. I think, I am not so sure that Mr.-
Hoffmans bag would be ommunism per se. I think
that something else again, but if we take the left
to mean in general terms, the kind of Marxism I
think that that would be accurate. I don't think,
however, that America is about to succumb to either
extreme. I think that we are internally strong and
I think that by and large Americans are reasonably
well satisfied with society as it is. And I think
that what changes will come about will continue to
be brought about democratically through reforms and
I don't think we are going to succumb to either side.
I think that either side would like to see the middle
collapse completely and I think both of them over-
state the case. I think there is much wrong, but
there has always been much wrong with a free society.
It is ohly societies where you don't read about the ,
things that are wrong are the closed systems that '
Mr. Freed and others like him like so well.
Mr. Freed, would you like to respond to that?
Are you ass ciated with the Minutemen?
Well, the Pat otic ty has always been associated
with the Minut In fact, it was founded by the
same man, Rober Pu hi M |'rb . _
: 92 Are you aware of the fact that Robert DePugh was
92/finally arrested last night?
Well of course, y I am quite well aware of that.
How did you about gait, did he call you?
IBoth Walt ,Reuther and"E5e Iti-Defamation League
have bee after92him for a long time and they finally
managed to negotiate his apprehension I suppose.
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"Gordon:
Freed:
"Gordon:
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Gordon:
"Freed:
"Gordon:
'Bo££man;"Gordon:he ~
Lou Gordon Television Show of .
92 July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan, Eeaturing Abbott Howard Hoffman,
1 James Freed and Gordon Hall
Well, I understand that the FBI arrested him, not
Walter Reuther and the Anti-Defamation League.
Well
And they arrested him under '
That's who controls the FBI.
Reuther and the Anti-Defamation League control the
FBI? I
Yah, and the Federal Reserve System, they all work
together on that. -
Well, I just want to tell you and our viewers if
they don't know it that Mr. DePugh was arrested
last night on a warrant for conspiracy to rob banks
in Redman, Washington, and he wanted to take the
money to rob banks, that he would get from robbing
banks to fight Comunism. _
According tp who? *
According to the FBI report.
That's what I mean. All right, .
Hr. Hoffman, ' 1 think
would you agree with
what you represent?it is time we give you a say,
what Mr. Hall has said about
weli, iirst I went to
of the show. Because
supposed to be a nice
someone
someone
which I
left inI think that somehow this is
quiet rational show with
from the right, someone from the left, and
who represents the vast silent majority
think is amiss of being the right and the
this country and people are supposed to
have my fellow American over here on the right go
after me and I.am supposed to go after him and Mr-
" 1 1: .-l._.--.._. - -say that I object to the format
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Re! Lou Gordon Television Show of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
v Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
q. James Freed and Gordon Hall
"Gordon:
Hoffman
Gordon:
Hoffman
Gordon:
"Hoffman:"Hall is supposed to emerge triumphantly as the
expert on extremism in this country. So I object
to that format and I wouldn't have come on except
for the fact that this show paid my fare out here
hence contributing to the conspiracy because I was
really here to attend the revolutionary underground
newspaper conference in Ann Arbor.
What kind of a format would you like us to have
for you Mr. Hoffman? . -
Well, I think we ought to like take over the show
and run it. But aside from that I would like to
protest
You wouldn't expect me to let you take over the
show now would you Mr. Hoffman? -
Well, not without some resistance and violence which
of course Mr. Hall would, would put down. All
right, now I represent, I would like to comment on
what you said about violence.
All right, all right.
Because you see, because you see the main, he
focused on the problem of it, the biggest threat
to our society was extremism, the danger of
extremism, violence coming up from extremism. When
we look at the reality of American life the chief
perpetuator of violence is the military industrial
complex, the government and the police force that
represents that government. That is where violence
is, and it is very well indeed to go and tell
people that your against violence but I think that
speech ought to be directed to the military forces
in Vietnam and to the police departments around this
country and to the police that were in Chicago and -
Mayor Daley, and I think it is a blurring of the
reality of the situation. He is very concerned
with the constitutional issues and I am involved in
a trial that our lawyers say represents the most
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Lou Gordon Television Show of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
I924-92q.I-one-'l92I92|-I I-I.I92I-raIil§J'BOL92-ll-July I1-vuuyu l.u..0IIuL92-A l,J92J&LlllGl.il|
James Freed and Gordon Hall .Re: x
"complex constitutional case in the country's
history. I mean anti-war activists charged with
conspiracy to incite riots. The Justice Department
has admitted tapping our phones in violation of
the Supreme Court ruling. Is there no outcry from
the soicalled liberals in the country, Mr. Hall
doesnft even touch on it and that is what is going
on in this country. One more point illegible!
'I didn't like his speech, I didn't like his speech.
I simply answered a question that was asked by
Mr. Gordon here;i He asked me what I felt was the
greatest danger about it _ -Hall:
Yeah, but you'see '
Already setting up the ground rules,what are the
o . chief causes of the problems in American society
. I think that is basically true!lt_I»92l'-tn.--. ,IIUL Lil-lll 0
and
What what *
"He simply asked me what I thought the greatest
danger from the extremist thrust was and I said
in the violence and you began by saying that you
would like to take over '
"Hoffman: But we have to analyze, we have to _ g
Gan I get in on this for a minute, Mr. Hall, you
are billed as an expert." How did you attain this
position, an expert, what are your qualifications,
can we see your identification card qualifying you
as an expert. and who pays you as an expert?
"Gordon: Well, Mr. Freed, I have to interrupt here, we have
to take a commercial break anyway, but suffice to
say that I invited you here as an expert on the right
Mr. Hoffman as an expert on the left and Mr. Hall
- here as an expert on extremism for this program '
and use it to debate your qualifications or his.
we willcome right back and address ourselves to the
issues.
2'-_ ."Freed:
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Re: ,Lou Gordon Television Show of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
I James Freed and Gordon Hall
nl__ Is_'I'I ___.- ____J .£___ .n_'l__I'll : ail; YUU H5kECl IUI CHE ___ =Gordon: or.
"Hall: Well. in the first place one does not walk around
. - with a card identifying him as an expert on extremism
I am regarded as an expert by the mass media and of
course that would not be acceptable to you but I
think that after a couple decades of carefully
analyzing and studying groups like yours and exhibi_
tionists like Mr. Hoffman, I reach certain conclusion
I write about them and I talk about them and they
are generally accepted by the academic community
and the mass media as being solid and on target and
so they have labeled me an expert. I don't consider
myself an expert as such, I consider myself a careful
research student of this phenomena.
Well, I didn't mean to put you on the defensive that
way - -"Freed:
"Hoffman: Oh, you didn't. -
But I am glad to know that you have answered Freed
properly. . _ _ -
"Gordon: I would like to point out the one thing that seems
_ _ to me you both have in common. Mr. Freed, I was
- reading some of your literature today -
How, just before you say we have in common, why
not just refer to my literature. Let the public
decide whether we have something in common or not.
Your literature talks about total resistance. Does
it not? r -I I:92I-A-arm! QI L ¢¢92|lO
'Gordon&
That is what it talks about. ,
*Gordon: And Mr. Eoffman, that's the li
. is it not? Total Resistance? _"Freed:S
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall
Gordon:
"Gordon:
Hoffman
"Gordon:
"Freed:
"Gordon:
"Freed:
"Gordon:
"Freed:
"Gordon:
"Freed:
"Gordon:
Freed:
Gordon:Oh, you don't use total resistance, what do you use,
total destruction?
"Total reparation.
Total revolution.
That is what we use.
Now, Mr. Hall. - '
You see what I mean, Mr. Gordon? You see you try
to put words in my mouth, but then after-we straightened it out you found out that his position is -
different than mine. .
How do you think his position is different, what do
you think of him? . .
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it wouldn't be fair to draw any conclusions about t
gentleman. y '
What do you think of what he stands for, I am sure
you are familiar
I don't know, I haven't found out yet.
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Oh yeah ,
What do you think of the Yippies?
Well, I don't think much of the Yihpies, but I
don't know, you didn't ask me about that, you asked
me what -
"I don't either '
You don't think much of the Yippies either?
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Lou Gordon Television Show of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall
Gordon:
"Hall:
"Hall;'
"Hoffman
II-I211 1 054:14.10
Hoffman"No. I don't think they even exist. It was a
slogan. There are no Yippies. It was a certain
kind of technique in order to have people come to
Chicago to make a statement about the Democratic
process. It was a slogan, Yippie' with an exclama-
tion point. There is no organization. It might be
an expression of a certain kind of life style that is
growing out around underground newspapers, drugs,
rock and roll, anti-war people, young people in
general, a certain kind of youth culture. But there_
are no Yippies. -
MI. I 1
I agree by the way with that, that the Youth
International Party is largely a creation of the
press. Do you, are you, let me interrupt just a
moment. Go ahead
no you object when I refer to you as an exhibitionist?
Are you offended by that?
Well, I, I don't particularly care about any words
you use to describe me because I don't consider you
a source of authority and I don't relate to you
in order to run my life. So you can call.me anything
you want.
Hell, at isn't really what I asked you,wel?, let
me put it another way. would you, would you ever
stop to consider yourself as one who is primarily an
exhibitionist and sort of given to, You know,
eccentric behavior, almost for the purpose ofleing
eccentric because I have seen you in a number of
different guises over the years and they seem always
geared to kind of the vast public display of your-
self to get attention, that is why I asked you the '
animal» -I an921uI=§ I-J.92IlJo
I would use_any technique that I thought was proper,
in order to disrupt what appears to be a democra-
tically run process in this country.
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show of
July l3, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freud and Gordon Hall - I
"Gordon: Mr. Hall, Mr. Hoffman makes a point that I don't
think initially that you responded to. He says the
real danger in this country is from the military
industrial complex that he talks about and as one
who is pretty much concerned about the anti-ballistic
missile and the Vietnamese war, and in those categories
I agree with Mr. Hoffman, probably the only things
I agree with him on. Isn't this the real danger,
perhaps a greater danger than the small minority
that Mr. Hoffman represents or Mr. Freed represents?
"Hall: Oh surely, there may be many larger dangers and I
did not respond to your first question by szggesting
that I believe
country is the
' that organized
extremism. It
one area and Ithat left-right extremism in the
primary danger. I think for example
crime is more dangerous than political
just so happens that I am a student in
feel that my competence to talk about
the Minutemen or the Students for a Democratic
Society, or any of the other groups is where I should
remain and I would not, for example, be qualified to
discuss the missile crisis, simply because I don't feel
that I know that much about it. Although I have
feelings that I would share with you on that-
"Gordon:
- talking about,Well, I don't think it is the missile crisis we are
we are talking about the fact that
thousands of men leave the Pentagon, go into industry
yhich supplies the government through the Pentagon,
and, for example, it seems to me that Senator Fulbright
referred last week to a group that was running an ad
on behalf of the anti-ballistic missile system most
of whose members are contractors iorking who would
be benefiting from the system.
"Hall: a 'Yes, yes, but again it, this is an area that I don't
' happen to specialize in and I don't know that much
about it, therefore, I dont feel all that qualified
to talk about it other than having feelings as an
- American about it. i_ ' .
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,'
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall
"I mean it seems to me that one can make studies
about all kinds of things, one would not expect
somebody who deals in heart disease to necessarily
know all about cancer, micro-organisms, etc.
"I think. when you asked him about what kind of a
danger do we represent the word danger you know
has a certain kind of connotation. And we have
to say danger to what? And Ithink, I think we all
three of us in a sense represent a danger but that
danger has to be defined. Now, I would say that
these two gentlemen, and you in fact represent a
danger. You represent you symbolize the people in
authority and you act as their tool, and I don't
represent a danger to black people in this country,
I don't represent a danger to long haired young
people in this country, I represent a danger to the
government and the people that I am with represent a
danger to this government, that is why yesterday '
at this radical underground media conference it was
necessary for those cops to come in and surround us
with shotguns even though we were just there talking
about putting out our newspaper. Something about
free speech. Now also there is a newspaper here in
Detroit, an underground newspaper, the South End,
that got closed down. That the administration at
Wayne State said the other day they are not going to
put out this paper. we don't like it and the kids
like want it, and like it, and they are taking it and
making it a real underground newspaper, they are
hiding the machines and they are putting them out and
to those people and to the people that read that .
newspaper I am no danger, but these people are.
Because these people have the power and I don't, and
I don't
But I mean you represent a dangerJ
0
"Gordon:
"Hoffman: _Maybe Mr. De Pugh got locked up for a charge of
e conspiracy to rob banks, you know, or something like
" that and there are a couple o£ right wingers that .
I I
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Re:_ D0
Lou Gordon Television Show Of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall
"Gordon:
"Hoffman
"Gordon:
"Hoffman
"Gordon:"are in trouble with the government are being
repressed or facing oppression but I don't know about
it, but people on my side of the fence are really
getting it right and left like the Black Panther
Party. It is an attempt on the part of the govern-
ment to wipe them out. There is a part on young
radicals to wipe us. They are followed by the FBI
all the time.
You are watched, followed by two FBI Agents everywhere
you go. Yes! Do you think you were followed here'
by two FBI Agents? _ -
Well, I don't know if I was like followed here or to
Detroit, but I have to report all the time on my -
travels to Us. District Attorney, the FBI part of
the evidence in the trial against us
But that is true of anyone that is on bond and leaves
the jurisdiction of that court is it not?
No, no. it is not entirely true, no no sorry that is
not true.
"In fact, you see, one of us, one of our Dave
Delenger is currently in Paris or on his way to North
Vietnam, I haven't seen the papers in the last few
days,to negotiate the release of three fliers, now
he-is prevented from like traveling outside the
country, but the goyernment, the State Department
just so happens to decide arbitrarily that this is
important to get thee fliers out so it makes a little
deal. It is all a question of deals, you see, law,
law is a hoax. Law and order is like a hoax issue
because that is not what we said V
I have been arrested ten times since Chicago. I
have forty arrests and but three convictions»
Are you glad of that? H -
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show Of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall
"Gordon:
"Hoffman
"Gordon:
"Hoffman
"Gordon:
"Hoffman
"Gordon:
"Hoffman
"Gordon:
"Hoffman
"Gordon:
"Hoffman
Gordon:Are you proud of being arrested 40 times?
proud of what I am doing and the way I lead
fe. - -
are you proud of being arrested, are you
like break the home run record of BabeWell then
trying to
Ruth?
What I am saying about that is that is that there
is no, what am I being arrested for,
92
Breaking the law.
Are you kidding?
"well, why am I not convicted?
Well, because the trials have not come up yet I
presume. h
Why have I been beaten 21 times by police.
Because your acting like a maniac.
Oh come on. I've been beaten in police stations
while I've been handcuffed. You see, your just like,
oh acting like a maniac, oh yeah. So we ought to
like beat em up and shoot em, what do we do with
maniacs.
I doubt very seriously whether you have ever been
followed by any FBI Agents. This, this sort of thing
goes on all the time, the John Birch Society in Hew
England talks about their lines being tapped, your
worried about the lines of the Minutemen being tapped
Are you aware that the Justice Department has
admitted tapping our phones? Mr. Freed, are you
aware of that"_ I .._ 1 - ., ._ _
Ho, your particular phones, no, they have admitted
uira ~l-an: in l'92InY'"|-:l'iI'92 name»: inn!-92T ' ,'I1L& W3 ill &¬L Efill iZl?92IE ilk 1 _
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show Of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall
oiimana Hell, your inaccurate. "
I'm sorry but, I haven't heard of it.
The ruling in the case comes up Tuesday, July l5,
In the Federal District Court in Chicago.
Let me ask you a direct and simple question. In
all of these arrests you have, you have never done
anything to to to warrant being arrested, you've
never violated any of the laws, whether you agree
or disagree with them is beside the point, but you
are absolutely an innocent babe in the woods and
you've been picked up and manhandled and beaten.Gordon: But, well
I don't, I don't consider it, I don't consider that
I've been an innoeent babe in the woods in aeeordanee
to your standards. But you see, for example, you
mentioned my appearance there wearing an American
flag shirt. Now I was arrested for that and it is
a charge of defacing and defiling the flag for which
I was given 30-day sentence. Now there've been
thirty people arrested under that law, they've all
been hippies. Yet that shirt was bought commercially
it is a mod fashion, it is in a number of mod maga~
zines, there is a mini skirt Betsy Ross flag thing,
I've seen Phyllis Diller on TV you know with that
kind of thing, but those people aren't arrested for
that. Its people that the government wants to get
rid of. The same as like potiérrests. There are
250,000 narcotics arrestsu who gets busted for pot. Hoffman:
Gordon: We'll be right back. s
' Mr. Freed complained during the break that he
wasn't getting enough time and I think he is right.
'Freed: I registered a protest. ' _
"Gordon: Registered a protest accepted, granted. Mr. Freed,
we'll devote a few minutes to you, ah
"Freed: Thank you.- I .. "-- _
"Gordon: Are you, are you affiliated with the Minutemen or not?
_ ' _ - l4'- _
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show Of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall
fFreed:
Gordon:
"Freed:
"Gordon:
"Freed:
"Gordon:
"Freed:
_ Gordon:
Freed:
Gordon:
Freed:
Gordon:Well. in what way Mr. Gordon? _
Well, come on now, in what way. You know how to
answer questions when they are asked you. Do you
have any affiliation with the Minutemen.
Then I'll answer it this way. Mr. Hoffman has had
ten or fifteen minutes to explain his position.
Some years ago I migrated from.Canada to the United
States and became a citizen of this country and I
had to take an oath here in Detroit before Federal
Judge Ralph Freeman, and that oath of allegiance.
said that I had to swear to uphold and defend the
Constitution of the United States against all enemie
foreign and domestic. Now based on that I will work
with any individual or group who has the same policy
the judge at the time didn't qualify.Now
Are
Ihe
Whyyou working with the Minutemen?
judge at the time
don't you respond
making a speech. Mr.
I don't know, he made
rhe
judge at the
qualify this
said do it.judge atdidn't "
to my questions instead of
Hoffman responded to my questia speech, But go ahegd.
the time, that's what I thought. The
time, Judge Ralph Freeman, did not
oath of allegiance in any way, he just
So, as a result that is what I fully
intend to do, to uphold and defend the Constitution.
Well, are you affiliated with the Minutemen?
Yes
Well, all right, glad to hear that, now has Mr.
DePugh been in touch with you since last night to
try to get you to raise bond for him?
How you know better than that. ~
Nell, the last time you were on this program you
indicated to me that you were in touch with Mr.
DePugh while .5
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show Of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
iames Freed and Gordon Hall .
"Freed:
Gordon:
Freed:
Gordon:
Freed:
"Gordon:
"Freed:
Gordon:
"Freed:
"Gordon:
"Freed:
"Gordon:
"Freed:
Gordon:
"Freed:
Gordon:
"Freed:
- '92- .¢,.. . -:Well what did I say that I indicated that I was
touch with
Well you said you talked to him as my recollection
occurs to me.. Am I wrong? Am I wrong? '
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rou netter cnecx tne statements Mr. Gordon.
well, I'm asking you. Are you, have you been in
touch with DePugh? »
You better check the tape because I made no comments
of that nature at all. _ -
Have you been in touch with Mr. DePugh lately?
NO.
Have you heard from him since he was arrested last
night.
NO. ' I
will you do anything to help him raise bond if he
gets in touch with you? _
The story is right now that certain people in this
country have already contacted an attorney who will,
who is looking into the matter if, indeed, it is the
truth that he has been arrested.
well you don't thinkw that the news reports are true
Well, I question any news report. _
Oh, you do? -
Yeah. _
You don't trust anybody or anything? -
Well, I say I question, I didn't say trust. And
one reason why for examle when they threw me in
jail there last fall I, I'm -
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as: Lou Gordon Television Show of
i July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
K Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
Q James Freed and Gordon Hall.
Oh, you've been in jail too?
I understand that you made the remark that I was no
different than the Mafia. So, I mean I have to
question anything that the news media says including
Why told you that I said that Mr. Freed? .
Well, my friends. Obviously I didn't hear it because
I couldn't. ' "
Well you
But I was told that you made some such remark.
Why were you in jail? J
well, because my, you see, again ah
No, I Just asked you why A
Well, I'm gone to.tell you but I'm going to answer
my way, not your way. Again Judge Ralph Freeman
told me that I must uphold and defend the Constitu-
tion of the United States so when I did this in
relation to a certain gun that I had bought then
I was arrested and the warrant for my arrest was
signed by Judge Ralph Freeman and he threw me in
jail so I don't know why I was in jail, you will have
to ask the judge because I was doing exactly as he
had told me. ' '
It seems to me you were in jail because you wouldn't
register that gun.
Well, I was standing up for, I was defending the
Constitution. -
Right, and you contended that-you didn't have to
register the gun. __ J '
That's right. '
-11.-
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show Of
* July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
A Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall'
Q .
"F: I agree with him on that point.
I"Gordon: Well, so we do find something that you fellows
agree on. Yo should have guns and not be permitted
"7: But the question of his aligning with groups that
' support the Constitution is a little bit misleading
I thought because everybody like, that's like sort
of claiming God is on your side in a way.
Hell I, I ' o "?:
"The Bible says your justified
I don't think at all --
"well, I don't consider
Lots of groups have claimed - -
I dodt consider Judge Freeman as God. He ordered
me to do this. I am under Federal court orders to
do it. . J '
"Gordon: _ MI» FIGECI
"Freed: That's all I can say. Y
Ion told me before the program began that you
haven't paid your income tax in three years."Gordon:
"Freed: That's right. - _
I.___wny Gordon not: s
"Freed: * The same answer. I am under Federal Court Order
"Gordon" You haven't paid in how many years?
"Freed: Oh, lots of years. ~-
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show Of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman, *
James Freed, Gordon Ha1l_ -
"Gordon:
?:
"Hall:
"Freed:
Hal1:.
"Freed:
"Hall:
ll?:
"?:
"I:
Gordon:
"Hoffman"I am under Federal Court order to uphold and defend
the Constitution of the United States and the Federal
Income Tax violates the Constitution 26 separate
times. So therefore I can't in all honesty support
that program.
Are you a lawyer? _ 7'
I agree with a lot of his methods, but not his
goals.
It is interesting the way you interpret the
Constitution so freely. y '
"Wait a minute, I haven't interpreted the Constitu-
tion at all Mr. Hall. "
Well, you said that the income tax law violated the
20, violated the Constitution you said 26 times?
That's right but I haven't interpreted anything
Well that's kind of interpreting
However, the very fact that you haye- to use the
word interpretation that's misleading to the people
out there because it is that kind of nonsense you
see
After all you are the expert
"Yeah, your the expert. -
Im not an expert on the 1eft,I want to disavow
being an expert on the left. -
What do you consider yourself, Mr. Hoffman, I
understand that you believe in comunal life} that
you believe in sharing your women, sharing your dope,
is that correct? _ ~
Money, take money essentially
_ 0
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show Of -
June 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed, Gordon Hall
"Gordon:
Hoffman:
"Gordon:
"Hoffman:
"Gordon:
"Hoffman:
"Gordon:
"Hoffman:
reg. -
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"Hoffman:Do you take dope? Do you take dope?
Do I take it where? I
Well, I mean,do you shoot yourself in the arm, do
you smoke marijuana? L
Well, I shoot a lot of things,_Maple syrup comes up-
from New England. I drink Coke which is a dope.
I just gave up ciggarets four weeks ago I'm mighty
proud ofvthat.
well, I'm Proud of you for that too.
But I smoke marijuana every chance I get, I take
LSD and love it, I've got chromcsone damage and I'm
grooving on it. _ . _.
Maybe that's what's wrong with you, you've got
chromosone damage. .
I'm bad. Dope, is dope bad? Don't you take dope?
See, you must be able to take dope, but because of
your position there, because of your affiliation
with the station, you'd have to lie about that. _
You know that. That's a fact. Like a lot of people
on your staff probably take dope. Like I know a
lot of people in mass media, Life Magazine. you
know CBS, NBC, the National networks, people that
are taking dope all the time. Everybody takes dope
in this business. _ .
Mr. Hoffman,I want to tell you _
"There is nothing revolutionary about taking dape.
I do not take dope because I get my kicks out of
listening and watching people like you.
Nell I do too. I get my kicks out of watching and
listening to people like-me. I'm having a good time
on color television, that's the hell of it.
-20-
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5- Re: Lou Gordon Television Show Of
¢_ July 13, 1969, Detroit,'Michigan,§§§ Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall-?=-.r.
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*1"_.'.3 , '-1
Q15 "Gordon: But you have to have to take these artificial
E . ' stimulants to do something for you.
=- "Hoffman: Oh no, that's not, that's like saying I have to goH to the movies you know to, ah, I I need the movies,
' I'm addicted to the movies. Its not true, I like
the movies and I like dope, and I like sex and I
5,} like sharing my money and I like making revolution
=i_ and I like attacking this government and I like
.* fighting for what I consider to be justice, I like
;;'*q 0
I, "Gordon: How old are you Mr. Hoffman.
II m old enough.
- "Gordon: Well, how old are you?
=.. "Hoffman: I'm 32 years old.H3,
92--1 '
"Gordon: Have you ever been married?
Hoffman: I'm married now, yes. I was married in Central
HP? - Park ah to like a woman, I don't know if its like
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show Of .
I July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
- u.-.-.4-.....-t-..-. l921l92l924-lJ~ 1.1.- _.-..»A !_1'.-92.C.l!.-.-.-...-.-8B<:lI-u.L.Lug rnuuui.-|. nvv92H|:..l.u. IIULLJIIOIJ;
James Freed and Gordon Hall
Hoffman: Hub? "'
who married you? who married you?
"Hoffman: My best friend.
He " _ i"Gordon:
"Gordon:
I don't think that is very relevant. I mean is
that really relevant?"Hoffman:
"Gordon: Well, I'm curious about you.
Personally I don't think it is relevant to
"I don't think its relevant."Hoffman:
you been divorced, have you
who are you sleeping with
kind Of, is that relevant?who married you, have
been divorced, I mean
tonight, I mean, what"Gordon:
"Hoffman: "Is that relevant?
" * was very relevant.
no n92:..92_ ____ __.!.|"_ _____923
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LO,
Yeah. _ .
"Hoffman: Gordon:
"?:
I don't. I don't think its relevant. y
We have to take time out, we'll be right back. "Gordon:
we're on now. Mr. Hoffman moves his chair away
and I, we are going to move it back and he said he
doesn't want to sit that close to Mr. Hall, he
doesn't take a bath. Gentlemen, we've had a lot"Gordon:
and | ' r . _
Well, is this show really to like join the issue. ?:
Yes. _ ~ " Gordon:of fun here but I don't think we've joined the issue,
92-' ' -U
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. Re: Lou Gordon Television Show Of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Hward Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall
'....¢I" 'I, i
_; "he puts
yg 20 hours-.'._
._.,.
== "I've got news for you - - _
see that, they showed the news see from
eneu to nave been rrom Fort
Fort Belvoir, Virginia, all gj
1; Only it nap
i< Georgia, or
5 WPIX.
You know, they changed all
_ about that. I__-0
5% "Hall: Yes, I did.
'- think TV is
"GORDON:
and wierd. Mr. Hall, be quiet for just
And I don't mind because you are paying
That's right, and I don't mind either.- Hall: -
"Gordon:
;, "Hall: If you want to spend the money that way
1- with me. ; .
Mr. Hall, would you please be quiet. "Gordon:%% "Hall: I think I am wasting my time. ' - - -
£5 .we
AL.I113-in like 20 hours a night, I put in like
a night and weire supposed to come on this3% show and use this as an educational meeting. .
5% "Baloney, you ought to read my book, that's not
what TV is about. In fact in New York there is like
one TV station where there are like shows did you
I In I P Q 1 92 92 Q -1 1 Jlike Vietnam
Beivoir,
the pictures,
that. I don 1;
Now wait, just a minute. Its supposed to be funny
a minute.
his way here.
that's Ok
"My difficulty is simply trying to relate to use n .
one of his pet phrases to a non-existent party led
by an exhibitionist. I, you see I didn't understand
*~ that we were supposed to discuss the Yippie group,
' because I agree with you that they don't exist and
k another matter and another group.
.;i I think these two
- and really discuss them. ;h4 5; "T i-u *
;r -23-I pay no attention to them. I was concerned with ,
fellows are really hogging the
"e - show because they are afraid to talk about my issues _
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" ,._.__92Lou Gordon Television Show Of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
- James Freed and Gordon Hall
Your issues! ' _ "Hoffman:
so that's why. they are, they have I think
If I can get my pay 1'11 go home. And 1'11 let
you have the whole show." To monopolize the whole
show because they are afraid to cut me loose. -
That's what it is. ."Hoffman:
Freed:
Ok, we'll cut you loose in just a minute Mr. Freed.
Anybody who thinks that Walter Reuther is a Communist,
is controlling the FBI is very difficult to discuss
issues with. And the_Anti-Defamation League, I
want you to ."Gordon:
5?: Ain't you supposed to be a fascist, can't you Jump
o in and like really sock it away there?
" You ain't a good fascist, I'll tell yo that.?.=
Who are you calling a fascist? You consider this
cat a fascist? Huh? . '"?:
I never heard of it until he got on this show. "?: "
"?: He isn't even on
"?: ' He isn't even on. What kind of fascist?
Ealoney. _ . Y:
The government is a fascist government, the cops are_
fascists, they are the one with all the guns."?:
"Gordon: Mr. Hoffman, what would - -
"?: He's a nice guy. -
'2: who ' .
Like you, that guy right there" '7: _
"7: U He's not a fascist.
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show Of
- July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
I. Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,i} 'James Freed and Gordon Hall
"1: You better get your pointer over here,he might be
pointing at me. '
"He might be a fascist sympathizer.
"Gordon: You think he may be a fascist sympathizer?
"Well maybe he might support that kind of totalatarian
state. - -
"He might, you know?
Would.you like a totalatarian state?
Are we on the air Mr. ,-"Gordonz,
"Freed: h
" "GordonE Yes, we're on the air. l
I never know because someone says comercial and
then we quit. would I like a totalatarian state?"Freed:
Gordon: Yes.
No, I want a constitutional state. I want a con-
stitutional republic. the constitution interpreted
- as written, as it was meant to be, and to go by
the organic laws of the United States. That's all
I want, and yet for some strange reason we have a
¢ court system now that no longer considers the
Constitution, Federal Judges who will not, who are
_ actually sitting in contempt of Constitution, Judge
- Lawrence Gubow is an example how he framed Reno
" Veroni of Southfield, Michigan, and sent him down
. to a mental institution. - Freed:
Now wait, wait, wait just a minute, " Gordon :
"Freed: chnd yet, and yet before he went Mr. Veroni had a
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Re: Lou Gadon Television Show Of
"Freed:
"Aordon
"Freed:
"Gordon
"?:
"Gordon
?:_ H
"Freed:
"Gordon
"Freed:
"Gordon
?: '
"Gordon- July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,X Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
' James Freed and Gordon Ha11_
That's not a slanderous statement.
You've made it your, you've made it your, you've
stated your position and we've heard it.
Well i
What you would like to see happen to this country.
Now Hr. Hoffman, I'd like to know what you'd like
see happenu - - _ -
What is slander by the way? - _
Well, we'll talk about that after the show.
Is that like an insult, is that an insult?
Am I off the show now? 7
_No you are not off the show.
Have I been censored?
"If I call Richard Nixon a pig
will you have enough sense to be quiet.
And he's been talking ever sinée we started that
Sheriff Harvey, if I call him a pig
Mr. . - ' ~
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Lou Gordon Television Show Of
July l3, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
VFeaturing Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon HallJ Re:
"Gordon: Mr. Freed, I, I ask you
"Freed: Judge Lawrence Gubow
I asked you not to mention those names in a
slanderous context."Gordon:
Ok, I won't say it in a slanderous context. Freed:
Gordon: Now you just be quiet.
"Freed: I just want_to explain Veroni, that's all. _
"Gordon: Now we've heard enough of you and what you represent.
Then I'm off the show?
Yes, your off the show.
OK "Freed:
Gordon:
"Freedé
Gordon: Now, Mr. Hoffman "
"Hoffman: What's the judge's name, Judge Gubow?
Mr. Hoffman "Gordon:
"Hoffman: He's a pig
Gordon: Will you
I've heard of slander too. What did you throq him
off the show for? That judge probably is a pig.
I've just been censored by Mr. Gordon.
We'll be back in Just a moment."Hoffman:
"Gordon:
As you can see our two representatives of the extreme
left and right have been dismissed. We still have
' ' Mr. Hall. Hr. Hall, is this an example of the way
that these people try to.disrupt things?"Gordon:
Hall: - Oh, I suppose it is. I think more than that it is
an example of how difficult it is to have any serious
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show Of
. July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard hoffman, .
James Freed and Gordon Hall -
dialogue with a man whose leader has just been
picked up by responsible Federal Agents liké the FBI
on a bank robbery charge, which is pretty clear and
another man who sat here and off the air was calling
a judge in your town here a pig who he had never
heard of and he was absolutely certain he was a
fascist pig. It is difficult to really come to
grips, however, with, you know, with either side in
that context: however, there is a larger picture
of the far left and the far right. It is fairly
serious in a sense that the name of their game is
power, both sides want power. Mr. Wallace,
representing my, in my judgment the major thrust of
the far right and he will be back in 1972 and he is
picking up a lot of the sentiment that was expressed
by Mr. Freed, although he disavowed that particular
7 party. An
Wallace, Wallace
avowing Wallace.
Hall: Yes, that's what I meant. I'm sorry, I, I worded
' it clumsily. I meant Mr. Wallace picks up that kind
of support while,at the same time, disavowingit
and he totaled over nine million votes in the last
election and then you have the disruption tactics on
campus led by people like Mr. Hoffman and, dispite
the obvious exhibitionism, it does get serious because
they do close down great institutions and they do slow
up the educational process without ever actually
reforming it. So I-think to dismiss them both as _
being member of the zoo, which I think they are, is
92 also to miss the point, but I don't think that this l
' afternoon, was the time, or this evening was the time,
to try to come to grips about it. Gordon: disavowed Freed, not Freed dise
Gordon: Do you think that the movement that Mr. Hoffman leads
' or attemts to lead represents any danger to thiscountry? ' »
_ ' "Hall: I suppose depending on how wellthe administration, -
this one and the succeeding administrations do in
' handling things like brushfire wars-or future Vietnams
' and the race question, depending on how well or how
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Re:. ' 92- D - 0
Lou Gordon Television Show of
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman, '
James Freed and Gordon Hall
"Gordon
"Hall:
"Gordon
'fHa1l:"badly they fare in these areas, I think will
ultimately spell, the, either the demise of these
groups or further acceleration, I think that it,
it valways depends on what those of us in the middle,
and I regard myself certainly as a political moderate,
how well we handle these things depends on how well
the extreme left right now in particular will do.
I think J. Edgar Hoover was reported as having said
this week that these people were being financed, the
Abby Hoffman type and the SDS type were being financed
by liberals in our society. Some people think they
are being financed by international Communism, or by
Cuba or China. How do you fell about that?
I don't believe it is true, _I, I've studied this as
I say fairly closely for a long time and I see no
evidence whatever that money is coming either from
Red China or from Castro's Cuba. Now, it may be,
but I have never seen any evidence. And not only
that, I've never seen a Federalagency able to document
this kind of charge. But it sounds great you know to
say that they are on the payroll of Mao Tse-tung,
or something like that. And I think it is also a _
mistake to suggest that liberals are financing the .
far left. Liberals tend to be financing the Kennedys
in their campaign, so, of course, the'Kennedys have
hardly needed money, but I mean the overall campaign
of people representing the views of say Senator Edward
Kennedy of my State of Massachusetts. Liberals are
reformists, people who want to maintain this system.
but they want to improve_it and get on with the serious
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Where do they get their money? Where do they get
their money? '~-
Well, I don't think that they have very much money, -
certainly I imagine that wherever Mr. Hoffmanis
going after.he leaves is show he will be flying
but I don't think it will be on'an airplane. I don't
think they have very much money to work with. I
think its a myth to think that underground newspapers
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show Of '
July 13 , 1969, Detroit, Michigan,
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall' 0
"in hovels and they eat when they can and sleep
where they can so Ijthink it is a myth that this is
a heavily financed kind of operation.
How should we deal with the party sentiment, how
should we deal, we in the middle, who want to try
and save this system and make it work. How should
we deal with people like Mr. Hoffman, the extreme
left? _ _ _"Gordon:
Compassionately I think, above everything else, it
serves little purpose to suggest that Mr. Freed
reallydoesn't believe that Walter Reuther is a red .
and that he really does call the shots for the Federal
Bureau of Investigation. This kind of paranoia
apparently is rampant in the Minutemen. I think you
have to deal with them compassionately and try to
understand them, but at the same time, while you are
trying to understand them, keep an eye on them because
these people mean business and despite all the
tomfoolery today, I think that obviously both of
these kooks would, if they could, come to power and
and by any means necessary.
were frequently criticized, we, the staff and myself,
for giving these people exposure. Do you think that's
' a mistake? ~ '
No, not really.
them and I think'
be overdoing it,
value in letting
would appreciate"Hall:
Gordon:
I think that you can overexpose
to.give them too much free time may
but I think there is an educational
them come on like this and_I just
it if next time_you would omit me,
but I think that there is real value in having them I
sit before the cameras and say these things because
mst people really wouldn't believe that a man like
Mr. Freed harbors the notions that he is endlessly
being persecuted by the FBI and Mr. Hoffman, on the
other hand, believes that he is a total innocent, more
or less, and that the police and everybody else are
constantly on his back. -By the'way, I simply dont
believe that story about being endlessly followed.
The FBI has more important things to do than to
follow Hr. Hoffman. . '"Hall:
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Re: Lou Gordon Television Show of _
July 13, 1969, Detroit, Michigan
Featuring Abbott Howard Hoffman,
James Freed and Gordon Hall
"Gordon: Mr. Hall, I appreciate your being here and you were
- ' very important in putting this think in perspective
after it ended.
"Hall: Thank you. _
I am sorry it got off the way it did and I apologize
for that. 7
We'll be back in a moment." _"Gordon:
. This document contains neither recommendations nor
conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI and is
loaned to your agency; it and its contents are not to be
distributed outside your agency.
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=. ..» According to its official newspaper,.the Black .
Panther Party BF?! was started during December, 1966, in
Oakland, California, to organize black people so they can
take control of the life, politics, and the destiny of thee
black community. It was organized by BOBBY GEORGE SEALS,
BPP Chairman, and HUEY P. NEWTON, BPP Minister of Defense.
NBWTOH is presently serving a sentence of 2 to 15 years
on a conviction of-manslaughter in connection_uith the .~
- ' k1lling_of an Oakland Police Officer. - lI_;»Q,{¢Q.j;f 3
?The official newspaper, Fwhe Black Panther,
which further describes itself as the Flack Community News
Service", states that the BPP advocates the use of guns and
guerrilla tactics in its revolutionary programlto end . -
oppression of the_h1acR_people. Residents of the black
community are urged to arm'themse1ves~against>the!police-whoare consistently referred to in the publication-as "pigs" -
who should be killed. . , I _ -.~-- -...l.lr;- ._ '
1 5- _'74§L Black na5¢né£*_is5se of Septenherll, l96d.f
contains an editorial by BPP Minister of Education G£0RGEl -
MASON MURRAY, which ends with the following: _;
-- Black men.- Black people, colored persons of _
=America,9revolt-everywhere? Arm yourselves.1 The-only cult »
ture worth keeping is a revolutionary culture. Change. _
Freedom everywhere; Dynamite! Black Power. Use the gun.Kill the pigs everywhere. ' + LI . . l -
. , , _ _ . ,
_' Included in the introduction to an article appnarin
in the October 5, 1968, edition of The Black-Panther" is the
statement, '...we will not dissent from American Government.
we will overthrow it. s _'-r V .'
- Issues of The Black Panther" regularly contain
quotations from the writings of chairman MAO Tse-Tung of the
'Peop1es Republic of China and feature MAO's statement'tnat
fpolitical power grows out .of,,the ba_1_:re_l__o£_a; gun. _ , '.
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United States. ' . ' -
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5' The "Minutemen" was organized in June, 1960. Its
present headquarters are Norborne, Missouri. Robert B. DePugh,
Norborne, Missouri, has been publicly identified as the
founder and National Coordinator of the organization since
its inception. bkmbership of the "Minutemen" is claimed by
DePu;h to be in excess of 35,000 members; however, confidential
sources state this figure is greatly exaggerated and that a
' more true estimate would be between 500 and 1,000 members. State-
ments by DePugh and literature distributed by the organization
-indicate its purpose to be the resistance to, and exposure of,
the spread of Communist influence within the United States;
for the formation of a guerrilla or underground organization
to combat the troops of any foreign powers which might
eventually occupy this country; to resist passage of laws
which would regulate private.ownership of firearms.
In April, 1966, DePugh stated the "Minutemen"
organikation was then dividing itself into two bodies: one
group to be members who have been able to maintain their
identity in complete secrecy from the public and government
investigative agencies, and the other group to be made up of
members who have been nuhliely identified and who will become
active in the etriotic Party. National Conventions of the
Patriotic Party were held in July, 1966, at Kansas City,
Missouri, and July, 1967, at Kansas City, Kansas,
Members of the "Minutemen" organisation, including
DePugh and his close associate, Welter P. Peyson,
have been arrested in the past on charges of violation of the
Federal Firearms Act, Bank Robbery - Conspiracy, Illegal -
Fossession of Firearms and Conspiracy to Commit Arson. _The
have also enaged in maneuvers utilizing guerrilla tacticswherein machine guns, mortars, grenades, and other firearms.
were employed. -RQb¬I%:1Bo
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the-tthe Students for a
Democratic Society SDS!, as t is known today, came into
. " being at a founding convention held at Port Huron, Michigan,
,_ - _ in June, 1962. From on initial ideological posture or .
' ,_ perticipatory democracy," the current line of the national
leadership reveals an adherence to MarxismLeninism."_Mlchael
Klonsty, Rational Secretory, in Eerch, 1969, called for the
7 'bui1ding of a revolutionary MerxistLeninist movement. The
- program of SD$ has moved from.involvement in civil rights ,
. struggles to an anti-Vietnam war position and finally to its' ' _- .92-.-. ... 924-:-. _ -- »A_ ::: - ___ __--~
- .
, -o§pressed'peoples of Asia, Africa and Latin America with the'f"bleck liberation movement in the United States. China, '
__ _ ,92r-l__4-. 3-_92!;1 {vi gn1~. ' .1;=¢> rr-92-rt:-n8.r=d 11;: rsrmgmtriegg gghich are 1.c:a_dint'- .-e.nuH en --e e.- --, -_-l _- --_--_-_ ._-- -__ _-e _-e
. the worldwids struggles against Unlted States imperialism.
' -- -~On the other hand, SDS regards the Soviet Union as en 7
'- imperialist power and does not support tho'po1icies of that
- country. " - _ _ ~ -
l. - _ EDS maintains a National Ofice in'30om 206, 1608
. West Madison Street, Chicago, Illinois. Its Official paper _
-' - New Left Notes reflects the.line of the.national leadership
.and program adopted at meetings of the National Council and
- National Interim Committee NlC!. Three national officers
and a NIC of eleven members ere elected each year during e
- June National Convention. "" _ _' , ' A, "A L "t , '
no '- l ~- ' l 'SDS Regionol Offices and university and college
.chepters elect delegates to National Council meetings wherein' program and ideology are debated, but each Region and chapter
is autonomous in nature and is free to carry out independent -
-policy end programs reflective Hof local conditions.
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FEDEBIL IIIREIU OF IIVESTIGITIOII
FDIPA DELETED PAGE INFORMATION SHEET
Pagelsl withheld entirely at this location in the le. One or more of the following statements, where
indicated. explain this deletion.
Deleted under exemptiontsl _ _. _ _ with no segregable
material available for release to you.
Information pertained only to a third party with no reference to you or the subject of your request.
Information pertained only to a third party. Your name is listed in the title only.
Documenttsi originating with the following government agencyliesl W e __
_ __ ._ _ . _ , was/were forwarded to them for direct response to you.
Pagelsl referred for consultation to the following government agencyliesl; ___¬______.._:._
_ _ e _ _ ._ as the infonnation originated with them. You will
be advised of availability upon return of the material to the FBI.
Pagetsl withheld for the following reasontsl: This d0¢l-llllentr Which i5 a Carbon COPY!
has not been processed in this file. The ORIGINAL of this document
" ee il%"=é'=Hi?1%rd¬L.w=~:--ii 8-4-92 tn r92r has 'F92LD 92-92J LI: 92JL IIQD I-I¢¢n
For your infomiation: _ _ _
The following number is to be used for reference liiarding th e pages:
h __ gig 92[email protected] -.*l __ [0/7/L :. . I Ll | ifgl
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Oil an. an. nu. :1 unrrsn srxrss d.. JERNMENT I =
Memorandum
= Assistant Attorney General
Criminal Diclon
.92 Ivm= 10/15/so
; "° = D"°°°"' FE? / ATTENTION: Guy 1.. Goodwin
C1"-. ' ?'
1-: 92~.JL..'|-l'.;.
Q.-HE /-2-£j_g_ [}~ ép.s@é/Q; J:',/
de to memorandum dated!*4="'=AsBo'1T K!WARD@II!F1=;92Lrb@ *mm1°'1 Yin. cizrmrzasn 5- // H "!:* :.. { °'F|ED .e...-/
Reference is ma
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There is enclosed one copy of §§£x£aQ55uaz§§§§}§§x your file
§%& date -l0,¢I{69i'
a______Ikthn0¥e------'
A, 1:] This covers the preliminary investigation and
no further action concerning a full investigation will be taken
by this Bureau unless the Department so directs,
B. I;g¥h§§§ **"=e*igation is continuingfurnished cop es 01% as they are receiv
C. [I] The investigation requested b you has now 92_been completed.- Unless advised to th con r no further inquiries will be made by this Bureau.q;§ .. 1 .. t '
D, [::] Pursuant to instruct s issu d by the Depart-
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WIN" #5Duh: October , 69
acca
rma om rm n SE 176-21 aw-cu Fllo n 175-34____ _?___ __ _
mm ABBOTT HOWARD HOFFMAN 7 *"~'-'_"' "" "' " ""'
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_"____5de ava1lab1e a tape recoM
at Gonzaga Lmiversity, Spokane,
Washington, 4/29/69. Transcript of tape set forth.
DETA ILS 2
7 F..-' - RUC '-
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FEDERAI. BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION _
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*9} recordin
a| -_._92
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3; ntains the remarks m de by _f HOWARD HOFFMAN in a speech a:3» Spokane, Washington Aprii 99, 19692: advised that he had dubbed these
_' leted
Z dentified these_ tapes with initial t he was present
-i . at Gonzaga University when HOFFMAN made the remarks
"; recorded and that he can testify that thlS is a true, _
in and correct recording of the remarks made by HOFFMAN
J at Gonzaga University April 29, 1969.
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as:.92'~.~.":92/'SE 176-21
There follows the transcript of the recording of
subject's speech. Comments in parentheses are added.
Too bad the sound wasn't too good on that. Movie
"Off the Pig" was Just shown! There's only one thing wrong
with that movie, there's only one little fib. We did after
all put the LSD in the drinking water. laughter! LSD. I
remember calling up - there was this guy that's like very
liberal on the Daily. He was a real sweater. He kept
trying to negotiate permit application five
stalling same as DAVID STALL, Deputy Mayor
weeks while we were into the festival life,
hell we call it, called him up and say "Heymonths. Kept -
of Chicago. Two
or whatever the
DAVE how're
liberal sweat. ya doin'." Ho said garbled! he's sweating,
Said "I'll let ya know a secret. You know, I see all the
stories in newspapers how you got 1500 troups out there
guarding the reservoir, the filter system, Chicago and all
these things about LSD in drinking water. You must illigible!
in the streets or something like we didn't even start that
rumor. You know something? It can't be done. You check
it out. Call some of these scientists you know them all."
So he says, "I know, we have checked it out. We aren't taking
any chances anyway." Very freaky. 1500 troups. illigible!
We picked up a paper one day that says Top Yippies Indicted
for Plot to Assassinate Hubert Humphrey. Oh, look around.
Yep, they got all the top ones. They're after the pigs.
It's against the law to have animals in the streets of
Chicago unless you're Spiro Agnew and the animal is an
elephant, then it's ok laughter!. So we brought this pig
down and they grabbed him up and about 7 other people took
him_out to the Animal Rescue League Jail. And_we had this _
- press conference and we said you turn this pig loose in
~ three hours we run a lion for president. laughter! Take
another fuck. Oh, what the hell. They sent four cops
right from the zoo to illigible!., It's amazing what they
believe. All this is going to come out September 24, the
biggest circus country I've ever seen. Call a trial; con-
spiracy! To breath together, conspiracy. Eight guys.
They did it. Yeah, BOBBY SEALE, head of the Black Panther
Party, he was there. Ten hours, gave two talks, 15 minutes
long. Ten years - two talks. DAVE DILLINGER been a pascifist
thirty years. He up in teaching illigible! devices. _
Say DAVE teach me. I believe in better living through
chemistry. They report we are ready. Going to drive 9,000
cattle through streets of Chicago. We are going to assassinate
others. We're going to blow up baseball diamond. Hear this.
They accuse us of coming to Chicago to perform magic. Against
the law. LAW. Law is an interesting thing to talk about.
T3?
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SE 176-21
This country. Mini Brute said in the halls of Justice in
America the only justice is in the halls. I know that's"
true. I have forty arrests. I'm doin' all right. Two
convictions. Forty arrests. They're both going to Supreme
Court.' Somebody can't wear a shirt. illigible! Thirty
days for that. Now I got another charge for resisting arrest
to a crime, like, that didn't happen. The crime was thrown
out. Resisting arrest was thrown in. About a week ago I
was arrested while I was in a phone booth. In court waiting
to go on trial upstairs. Black Panthers outside having a
demonstration so the oops came in and like did this whole thing
provin that-there ain't even justice in the halls of justice.
Yeah, he yanked me out of a phone booth and hit me right
on the head. Like that. I bounced off the wall. I said,
"Excuse me officer, what seems to be on your mind, you know?"
He said get the fuck out of the building. I said that's what's
called an obscenery cause I had this word, dirty four letter
word, you know,late, printed on my forehead in Chicago and .
was arrested for that and the cop at the trial said, "Judge,
he had an obscenery written on his forehead." If that's an
obscenery 1 learned to talk that way in back of police
stations. So I was out of sight when the cop said "Oh he
used obsceneries. That's where we learn them. I didn't
learn them from my mother. Or the Jesuits. So, where was I.
Yeah, I was getting wacked again and he said "get out of the
building. I said, "Well, I'm not with the demonstration,
see. I'm on trial here for like Columbia, something that
happened a year ago and the judge is waitin' to see me."
BOOM. So I did this whole karate demonstration for the judges
and lawyers who were assembled in the court room. Sent
three to the hospital. They putlnnd chains, leg irons I've
never had leg irons on. It's really hard to kick with them
things on. They brought me in the press room and held a
-police press conference. See, they just pounded away "d I
yelled "l4l79." You know, stuff like that. Badge numbers.
Right. They were taking the pictures like that guy's doin'.
But that ain't news. Along with assault are five other
charges. For'what? It doesn't matter. . '
You know, I was arrested the next day for not
showing up at the trial. A week before that I was arrested
for not fastening my seathelt on an airplane. It's all
the same. Catch 22. Catch 22 says they can do whatever fuck
they want to as providing we can't stop them vice versa.
That's the attitude we bring to Chicago and face ten years
$20,000 fine. We are calling ourselves the conspiracy. Yeah,
right. That's what they call us. The conspiracy. That's
0I I
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right. Ok, we'll be that. We're not afraid of that. You
want to send us some bread, write out. The conspiracy.
Heavy for liberals. Heavy commitment. Sign a check. Yeah,
run out of ink. Pen don't work. That's ok. Got a felt tip
here. Fine. We'll do ok. We got good lawyers. Best legal
team ever assembled in this country. Seven top lawyers.
And eight. Dr. Fidel Castro from Havana, Cuba. Lawyer.
Extraordinary.
We're entering application in two weeks for Mr.
Castro being admitted to Northern District of Illinois to
practice law._ This week we file permanent application; no,
a bench motion to have the trial switched from the Federal
Building to the Colliseum in Chicago. Two weeks ago we
applied for a permit to sleep in Lincoln Park. Eightof
us. September 24 don't come. Bid you get that FBI?
DON'T COME, YOU SEE. September 24? 1969 Lincoln Park. Don
come. We need all the room we can get. We went down there
to the Federal Building - I mean to the parks commissioner
which permit application and said seeing how you go were
and treated us last time. We know how you process this with
all illigible! speed etc. etc. etc. Where's Commissioner
BERRY. Oh, Commissioner BERRY is no longer with us. He
died a week after the conventin. Sorry about that. illigiblet
We love Chica
for the cops. They wer
Shit, I was at St. Jose
eeps. Let the cops do
me dearly so much iigur
on this blind justice's
eight cops. Scapegoats
bring it cause it's kin
cop gave me that. I ga
me a shirt. Ias a spec
ground layout. And il
alcohol mixed with hone
margarine, honey sandwi
bzzzzzzz. The bell it
music in the park sitti
of life ten miles away.
You should have seen th
mess tor like six month
illigible! of death.go. I don't know why. JOCK say cheer
e holding it in. Liberal school.
phs. Man, they were yelling for the.
it, hdi Do it yourself. You love
e out why the eight of us got bounced
cale with eight cops. They put up
. They're policemen sure. Didn't
d of cold up here. Didn't wear -
ve him a brownie. The park. He gave
ial kind of brownie. we are underr
ligible! this thing with hash and grain
y. Serve it up. Brownies, oleo
ches. bzzzzzsa. All the eeps go
ain't Sunday. Festival life. Free
n there ternative culture festival
Democrats, Convention of death.
place. We built up this uncle
You know, festival of lite
didn't believe it. We went to
Chicago. As you approa the International Amphitheater and
there's this huge green sign, white lettering. It says sheep
this way, hogs this way. Pointed right at the International
Amphi-theater. And you get like close to it and you startat
s.
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SE 176-21
smelling and it's death. And it's the case right in the*~ 0xi _
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middle of the slaughter house area in Chicago. I don't
know if you've been there but it's a hellof-a stink and -
they had two piles of manure 70 feet high either side of
the hall.
chemicals.
them while
JOHNSON on
I borrowed
loose term
and I wentThey had to spray the speakers with special
CBW stuff. So the flies wouldn't buzz around
they spoke, phew! It was designed by HOWIE A
the inside. Funky. I went in there one night.
these credentials illigib1e!._ It's a general
Life magazine collaborating with the yippies
inside and I started to look around. This was
" Friday. Convention started on Monday and all I see they
flip out.
their gunsThey do this little theater thing. They had
illigible away from microphone! and they
pad and paper 18, 24 illigible!. Right to Washington. .-E say FLOWER POWER! They circule you, you know, they got a
l" They'll be at the trial. Strange evidence will be at the
trial. They had 25,000 troops in Chicago. They had
helicopters with machine guns, they had ten miles of barbed
wire all around eight city blocks around the Convention.
I don't know if they got a permit for that. We'll have to
_ check that out. All these troops. Mayor there said "We
needed these troops because in the April __ issue of .
Saga Magazine the ppies reveal their plans. SAGA MAGAZINE!
illigible! head cops. Sounded like the police union,
like fight the things like longer clubs. Stuff like that,
I don't know. And he said you people have very good credentials
you have burned down a number of illigible! before you
= came to Chicago. illigible! Yeah. That's right. People
all looking at you very freaked out. The head cop. Dumb
yippie. They're both agreeing. Burned down a number of
cities. They'd believe anything.
-. ' -i~ 'Boob tube. Saw a show couple of months ago said
in where'd you get your money. They always ask that, huh. Oh
' well, on August 17, 4 a.m. Seventh Street and Avenue B, we
-u-.. . question 1 met with a man who called himself Spiro Agnew and he gave us
..' $10,000 in small paper bile. Let's go on to the next
what's a hippie, what's a yippie, and all this
* heavy intellectual stuff. At the end of the show the illigible!
' -said, "Hey, I don't think the people know that the Republicans
gave you money." You know, like them them. And the moderator
said, "Yeah, they do that. I mean after all it did help
Nixon and Humphrey did get beaten because of that rat."
Makes Sense. And the cameras doing that. Makes sense. MAKE
W-£55-EI-. .-~92
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weSENSE. WHAT A TRIP. They're all on a trip out there.
- They're serious. Hake sense. ' _
Now I wear this shirt, right? Looks like a flag.
I wear it because I was born on the Concord Bridge. Tradition
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of my people. Do that. Now they give me thirty days for
that. Desecratin' the flag or somethin'. They got a lot
of rules like that like we thing about before. Hello,
I'm smokey the bear, see. That's good for six months. That's,
you got a law library here, you look it up. That's Volume
18, U. S. Code 711 Smokey the Bear Statute. It's illegal
to impersonate Smokey the Bear. He's a queer. Well, he's
the Government. illigible! The importance of a flag is
developing a sense of loyalty to a national illigible! has
been the subject of numerous essays. First essay, C.
Hitler illigible!. Hitler. He's back. Who's straight?
I got to do that. I don't even believe him myself illigible!
I said yes. But Hitler and Melvin Bamberg illigible! Depart-
ment of Justice are goin' in to argue that case before they
appear in court. In Washington on May 19th. You can get one
year wearin a shirt. Course Phyllis Diller, see, go on TV
in a ilag mini skirt, like, that don't matter. You know,
drum majorettes walk around all the time. Uncle Sam's a
fucking criminal. But it don't work like that. Catch 22.
Catch 22. Course.
Well, so what's it about, huh? You watch the
program. Revolution this thing called . Revolution, yeah.
illigible! Revolution. Dash is a revolution in soap
detergent. Join the Dodge Rebellion. See add two weeks
ago in New York Times. $6,000 ad. What are the revolutionaries
at United Artists planning for '69? Plan it, they ought to _
be doing it. Revolutionaries. I know.what it means. But
to a lot of people it might upset. There used to be a
hippie flower child. Smiling. And we had like this dream.
A .1: 11 . if started before then_ 1'11; ntjer 3Q, R91; to be P ll Up-----..-.3, -.7 '-- --- --.-'-- ---'_.-- Q - v -._
.trusted. I got educated in Mississippi. Be in Mississippi.
See, and uh local sheriff come by and arrest you. I always
got arrested in Mississippi goin' through town - going through
-a reg lightlin adtowglthagldidngtihave ne. Ad they put you n a ce an g e c v r g s wor er g ve ema bottle of liquor, and they kick the shit outa you. Then
they throw you out. Saves you the trouble of going to court,
I guess. But you'd be getting beat up you see and the .FBI would oome'hy and they take these notes. And they say,
' ."We're uh ya man. We're with ya." Justice Department
officials. JOHN DOE and those kind of people, liberals, we're
with ya. It's terrible what's goin' on around here illigible!as Mississippi. Call us in Washington when youlneed hglp.Call us co ect. WOW! You say Ok man {G 0that. What're you going to do now?""Well, I'm sorry, son.
In this case my hands are tied, states rights, and all
that shit." Oh, my hands are tied. Always hear that from
liberals. when I went to school my iirst demonstration
with CAROL CHESMAN, they killed him on Death Row for 12 years.
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SE 176-21 ,
I
Wrote about 11 books. Raped some chick, something. I don't
know. San Quinton. Going to gas him. So we went down,
had a little picket. MARDON BRANDO was there. Tuesday night.
Warden came out, gave us all coffee and doughnuts, said we
agree with your goals but not your methods. PAT BROWN, big
liberal today, got on TV - "I'm opposed to capital punishment,
but in this case my hands are tied." For about six years been
meeting all kinds of people whose hands are tied. llligibie!
pull out. Fuck it all. Be a hippie. Whoo. Go to San
Francisco with a flower in my hair. San Francisco.
I saw Lower East Side, though. New York. That's
Shangrila East. 10,000 tons of garbage right now in my
neighborhood in Lower East Side. Pig eye. We ought to make
free stores, free society. We're going to love everybody.
Ilower - flower power. And then it happened. Hippies are
the last hope for America. They're groovy. Nice people.
See Babylonian, this guy illigible! they figured out what to
do when their kids are like, too hip. They build an idol, _
They called it Molak. And they tell all the people bring ~
your kids down throw them in. Kill em. And they did and
Babylonia crumbled. Now they don't need Molak. They got a
Government. And they got pigs. Well, I mean that's a neutral
term. Afterall, we like pigs too, huh. We offered one up
for president. Nazi stomp troops is what they call them. I
don't like that. Illigible! does that says Yeah that's me.
Here, want to see how many kids I kill? Look, look at my
club. Call em fags, Jew bastards, Commies. That's heavy
talk to cops. People saw all that coming out of Chicago.
' They said, I DON'T BELIEVE IT. Get out ofny living room!
' It ain't true. Well, it wasn't. Like it wasn't to those
_ _people. Cause they sit up in white suburbs they don't Lower
__East Side. They see cops different. Cops see a guy and
helps you change a flat tire. Thats the guy like that keeps
"an eye on the house while you go down to Miami. Palm Springs.
If you're adult - Palm Springs. You see them on FBI and
Mod Squad. They're all good guys, you know. They're good
guys. So like what happened in Chicago can't be true. They
always say that like a close friend died. You know, first
' reaction CAN'TWBE TRUE! Not that. System is dying. And
it's time to build something better. To build it and defend
' it. And that's what we tried to do in Lincoln Park. And
every night at ll o'clock they come in and say, "Well
you yippies, you're city folk. What'cha doin' in the
Why don't you go out of town and ript it up." Well,
said, "Ok, we'll do that." Whatre you trying to do
Free. That's the program of the future.. EverythingI
park.
we
in the park
free.
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SE 176-21
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That's a heavy trip, I know. Everything free? America, land
of the free. Right? Well, like my old man told me at early
age. Free means you don't pay. Why pay? Like old GINZY
last week. ALLEN GINSBERG! He wasup here, huh. Old Jew
bastard. Friend of mine. Said, "When can 1 go in the super-
market and buy what I want with my good looks?" You know,
ten years ago it took 480 man hours to produce an acre of
corn. Today it takes 48. Five years it'll take four years.
And in ten years it will take four minutes. One acre of
corn. So we just say yippies' member of the working class
only he's on strike. Partly cause we recognize there are
no jobs worth doin'. are no jobs worth doid. But you got to
work, man, whereby got to work. That's why you got to be
in school. »Preventive detention, that's what schools are.
Nursery schools. And the Army. Keep kids in there. So he
oant get out and realize that there are no jobs out there.
And if they find something they aren't worth doing. I was in
school. I remember, I don't know, like if they do it up in
this area, but when I was young they taught you how to make
ovals, see, and you had to draw these little circles in
between these two lines. You kept, bke doing that and doing
that and doing that over and over and over again til I got
a masters degree, you know. And then they teach you how
to sit. Like this. illigible - away from microphone! Like
that. How're you going to get stoned that way? You got
to sit that way. _
Discipline, control, brainwashing. Oh oh. Dc
talk about brainwashing, man. iilligiblei Cuba, talk about
world revolutions, socialism, that's brainwashing. I saw
it on TV. That's what they call brainwashing. Farmer Jones
has four apples and he brings them to town sells them for 2 _
cents each. How much profit does he make?_ That's mathematics
That's not brainwashing, though. Columbusi Columbus dis-
covered America. Whoo. How'd he do that, there are
people here. Well, like see then you figure out this dis-
cover means: White western power, ccnquerers, nonwhite,
non-western power. Thatls what discover means and you have
a whole means of history.
Work, yeah, I know. illigible! Catholic school.
Hey, I got no quarrel with Christ. He is a hippie. Dela
his thing. Driving money changers fromhe temple. Whooo.
Class revolution. Slave revolt. Call it religion. Ok,
that's cool. Keep flying brother, don't tell them what .
you're into. You call it religion, that's good. Hey, he's
groovy, see. He went all the way. Then came the dxnples,
see. Dmmdples, like kids in a course,'uh, that's like get A.
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Don't understand what the hell the teacher's talking about,
right. That's what a diunple is. They say hell, man, he was
really serious. Remember, ho, we've got to really be serious.
We have to sacrifice. Yeah. They're all sittin' around pawing
all the guys, you know. And they say, well, like, what can
we do? You know, one guy says well, why don't we wear black.
Hey, that's a good idea. That's hip. That's ser
Paul says, "I got a better idea." Tey say what
why don't we not fuck. And hark, you know, he's
't remember him saying that. horny, he said I don
He didn't say that. But Sermon of the Mount.
we got to be serious.
we ' re varv QQl"192JQ - "- -- vi--J Q - - w _-We can huild big temples.
yeah. Big temples. Cut you in Mark, cool it.
St. Augustine. Ah, a cracker. He came along.
a better one. He said, "We're all going to rot
OS. Original Sin. Oh sin, yeah, hit me again,
I feel it. I'm so sinful. Yeah, right. That
Don't eat meat. Ok. That'll do it. Then some
Palonious he just wented to like bawl illigibl
They said Get thee to Jerusleum. Right. But t
good enough. See, that was like goin' on, neve
things, burning witches and all that. Having g
And then came the
Niggers dodt want
l2 year old kids.We'll fuck and people dont
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industrial revolution. They say Hey Niggers,
to keep plowing the fields. They're
_ They don't want to work 20 hours a day.
What're we going to do. They're bankers. And factory owners.h
v
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e!
haious. And
He said
a little
I was at
ey say, No
t think
hey said oh
eah. Yeah.
'up with
all got
Ho Ow.
not enough.
ippie
like that.
t wasn't
doin' groovy
d fun.WB
So is this guy John Calvin, see, he went around Switzerland_
illigible!. And he's cool looking, he had a funny little
hat. Say, you got any ideas, Calvin? He says, Yeah we'll
tell them they won't get into heaven; not unless tney save
all their money and postpone all their pleasure. And work.
Work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work you get to
heaven. Protestantism.
They worked. and worked,Too chichen shit to be Catholic.
worked. worked- worked worked worked,
worked. Four letter word. illigible! We're not going to
work anymore. Oh, they hate that. They hate that more thani
their ohscenaries. They hate that more than the MLF. They
hate everything but they hate that the most. Cause whose
going to pick up the garbage. Illigihle! Cynics. Whose
going to pick up the garbage. They, that what Universities
are for, they teach you that. Look at all sides. Can't do
anything. Can't tight City Hall. Lot of apathy around here.
Tosh, who's going to pick up the garbage. The future. The
future is ours. And the future is free. Unlimited possibilities
Tried explainin' that to some guys, some reporter at the airport
today. He wouldn't buy it for beans. You know why? Cause
like he had a view of human nature is basically bad. People
are bad. Hangover that OS stuff. Calvin bullshit. People
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SE 176-21. '
are bad. Not Just you, I mean you ain't bad, at least you
ain't bad as your neighbor's kids. They're the really bad
ones. So we got to censor stuff. And we got to lock things
away. And we got to keep them away from smoking flowers.
Put them in school. Cause they're bad. Man is basically
evil. Church says that. Well, see, man's nothing. You know
he's basically the evil, good, or somewhere in between. Right?
So, it's like a Y test. Tells you more about person
who's saying it. Does a5out mankind. Mankind's made up.
People are with us. Hmmm. Yeah, I know, Gallup. illigible!
98.9% of the people not with us. Well when we were inChicago we took two barber shop poles,'one telephone pole,
took then hack to_New York, asked them all these questions.
They said, People are with you. We're artists. We're going
to have society of artists in the future. No work, all art.
No property. Property. illigible! Property is theft.
Property must be destroyed. Art must be preserved. You
work at art, you're worth defending. You piece of property,
you should be destroyed. It's all the question of how you
look at yourself. Future society of artists. Unlimited
potential. Believe in man it's a very revolutionary attitude.People are good. Wow! Year they don't have to work, they'll
be creative, productive because that's their natural drive.
That's their tendance - be nice. Ain't that simple. Make love
not war, you know. Go up, kiss a cop. Christ. Tried that.
Brought the flowers, and they brought out the clubs. Tear
gas. Dogs. Armed helicopters. Three weeks ago 20,000
young people had a little concert down at Palm Springs. They
ame with helicopters, tear gas, drove them right out. Drove
them into town. Three got shot. Boston Common last summer.
200 kids arrested for idleness. 65 injured. Dogs they
used. Fighting kids. I saw one teacher up at Dartmouth who
~was in on that demonstration show where a cop bit him. Hey,
he still had the mark after six months. Cops bit him. He
said it, I didn't believe it. I thought they were vegetarians.
But the flower children have grown thorns.
Last-week 16 year old kid Pleasantville, New York,
home of Readers Digest, Readers Digest. All over the world.
16 different flavors, all vanla. Publisher Readers Digest,
see, get an antihippie speech, now illigible! came home his
kid said "Dad thump! stabbed him. Hmm. Revolutionary act.
Only they call it aggravated assault. Chuck them away. 16
year old kid. Sons rising up against fathers. Cause they
want to kill us. Flower children growing thorns. They're
fighting back. Cause we ain't going to see that old beauti-
ful world unless we fight back. Unless we wreck the system.
Capitalism. Just don't seem right. People ought to
live in a state of competition. Seems they ought to cooperate
a little more. Seems like people ought to be let in on decisions
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that affect their lives. They all live in a state of
community. They shouldn't be struck away in institutions.
That's what you are. Stuck here. This is an institution.
You don't make the decisions. illigible! bankers and they
had Coca Colas. Is that right? Yeah, get coke free. illigible!
It's a business. Schools a business. Do ya think they're
gonna let ya in on it? General Motors say the cars they all
Chevys there. You want all that chrome? Chevy. N0. They
dnt ask you what d'ya want. We want ta learn. I didn't
go to school, I wanta learn guerilla warfare. Right. I
wanta learn about our relation ship of unwersies, and courts,
the power structure. When we gonna study that. Undergraduate
and graduate level too. They teach nothin' in school.
People on the Lower East Side. Where's the survival. People
best equipped to live down there come out of the Army or
pgésgn. They hang around streets and learn it. Lite youw own the street see an a cop hrows ya up aga nsthe wall and says, 5You éot any identification? You're a
suspicious looking character." Yeah? But like down there I
mean if you got a nice suit and tie, short hair, horn rimmed
glasses and attache case you're a suspicious looking
character. That's the way we view ya. Oh no but cops,
they're cops. Protect property andgeople who own property.
Kick the shi: out of the people iho do:'t hays say. b¥heygrab some ki they throw h m age nst t e wa ey ow awhistle. Pft. Twenty cops on my block. And they're all in
uniform. They blow that whistle half the hippies turn on -
the cops. It's outa sight. Undercover cops. All over
the place. I just read an article by a guy from Denver said
that everybody was actors in Chicago on both sides. Nobody
there. It was kinda almost true. Cause I was arrested in
~a_police station on Wednesday for the obscenary. .There was
this big box and these guys illigible! hippies coming in
and pickin' up tamborines you know and beads and peacebuttons and all those kind of stuff: And I didn't know whethe
it was lost or found, you know, uh these guys were uh like
you read about, you know. So I go up and I say, "Hey, man,
you with us you with them." And they do dis and I dodis - pft. ,Dog. Start a battle of Algiers. Sright.Scene 2, illigible! part of em it's Just like picking up
their beads goin out there. Hippies yeah rah rah t ey rerevolutionists. Sure. They don't have to be undercover cops.
They're up her already. Rah revolution I saw Canned Heatlast week. I gotta psychedelic poster on my wall. Y§ah,hI
dig the Beatles. That's cool. I turn on. Wow you o, uh.The more 1 turn on the more I wantamake revolution. See,
we're gonna win an the Central Committe they operate right
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SE 176-21
O
Hanoi, Peking, ya know all these secret places, Havanna.
Sss Berkeley. Dey said dat when we'd win I could be
Secretary of Agriculture. So, uh, you don't get off your
ass an do somethin' you don't get any good shit. Now, my
friends I got beat up tonight. Pot. Hey, ya know pot
busted political arrest. That's heavy. It's our ilhgible!
stimulentiright, People who use it 200 years, flower grows
wild, God-put it 'der. God. Thanks, God. You're a groovy
cat. 200,000 narcotics arrests last year in this country.
Phsew. 200,000. .Caliiornia leads em all, 65,000. WOW!
New York tryin' to catch up. Oh, hell.
Lindsay. Lindsay's a liberal. Lindsay went
around schools, see, three years ago saying, uh, marijuana
laws oughta be repealed. See, tell ya. "Now's election
" year. Penalty for possession of pot - one year. Hes York.
Lindsay petitioned the Governor up illigihle!. That's
repealed. Liberal. Four years smoke flowers. Ya get life
I think in some states. I was in Florida couple months
ago in this real heavy dark an this serious cat comes on
the boob tube. Marijuana produces chromasome damage.
What're they smokin in F1orida?T Must be heavy stuff.
Flown in from Cuba. Furthermore, he went on to say if
parents have children with drug problems it's always
parents Q got children with drug problems they should turn
'emcrer to the police, for their rehabilitation program.
Pshew. Five years. Rehabilitation program. Parents turn
in thér kids. It's like outa sight. At least in Nazi A
Germany we gotta chance to turn in the parents. And the .
trains ran on time. Shit, we don't even have that. You
think gettin' turned in by parents something. Up in Detroit,
ithey got dogs, see. Sniff our pot. Train em special.
- So David Brinkey went up 'der. Did ya see 'dat on that
comedy hour? What 'dey need the Smothers Brothers for
anyway - they got HnntleyBrinkley, all thoseudder guys.
Funny enough. So they bring David Brinkley in they say,
"We want ta show ya how dese dogs work." Dey bring em
out to the airport, see, and in comes this plane from
San Francisco. Hmph. Easy target. An oii comes this
girl, ya know, la la la all you need b Love love love love.
She got a handbag. All oi a sudden dogs go up - sniff, phew
and the oops grab the handbag, open it up. $3,200 worth of
marijuana. I said that's outa sight. I do a little figerin.
Course, San Francisco proces - 87 pounds of marijuana. New
it you gotta - if you're a chick _ an you got a handbag
you weigh like a hundred pounds, you gotta half pound handbag,
right? This chick weighed 17,500 pounds. Traveling youth
_£are, too, I bet. Naughty girl. Somethin' sick bout a
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country trainin' dogs sniff out flowers, ya know? Day don't
know bout 17,000 pound chick ridin' airplanes. Logic.
What a trek. Uh, fighting back. We use our insanity versus
theirs. That's the choice. Alternative fantasies. Is it
'1egal? I don't know. 2,700,000 laws in this country.
2,700,000 laws. Pshew. How're ya gonna know what to do.
We go down to Pentagon, we say uh, "We'd like permit raise
the Pentagon 300 feet in the air." Can't do that its -
illegal. Whatya mean it's illegal. All right, get us
a law. No, can't find it. Well, we're comin anyway. They're
liberal in Washington, though, they say we'll give ya ten
feet. Say, ck. Well, we tricked cm, went up 300 feet.
September 21st, 1967. You weren't there. We saw it. Come
to Chicago. They say you can't have permit sleep in the
park. You're gonna have 10,000 people walking naked on
Lake Michigan. That's illegal. Show us the law. I know it's
back there somewhere rah rah rah 2,700,000 laws in this
country, can't look them all up. That's illegal. We say, 2
oh, we're gonna do it anyway. We like to break the laws. z
Insanity. Choice of insanity and there's a choice of
death. You wanta get a degree, learn how to make ovals,
you wanta go sit in a office. I was out 'der. when I was
older I was a salesman for drug company. Pshew. Heavy job.
$15,000 a year. Had down a science. But only I worked four
' hours a week, spent the rest of the time workin for SNCC.
But that was play, that wasn't work, the udder four hours were
the work. Ya go up to a doctor, see, a detail man, 'ats a
heavy job and uh say "Hey doc, uh we need a little report,
ya know, like uh this drug ain't doin' too good. How bout
writin' a little report, I give ya $500 bucks. Said ck,
slip_it under 'de door and ya give 'im $500 bucks, see, then
he writes this report an send it back to the home office,
-they zip it out to all these intellectual journals that doctors
read, and they read great. BRILLO. Yeah, it's good for
diarrhea. And the whole thing was like run that way and
it was spooky. Like ya didn't know, it ain't good ta shit
or what, wbat'm I ddn' here? Peddlin this an who can I
ask? What is truth, who am I, what's my identity and all
- _that. Where's my soul? Like, I shod the church. Let me in,
see, couldn't answer that. Where's my soul, priest, where's -
my soul, rabbi. Ah, wecbnt know, ya know, uh we don't know
bout lite. Go ask Dali Llama. Uh, I coulh't find him so I
asked by boss. We came around, say "Hey, boss, this shit
any good?" He say, "Well, won't kill ya. House in the
suburbs, it was great. owed the 1awn.- Yeah, mowed the lawn.
Four hours a day, $15,000. Yeah. But, it was burnin' my
soul. So I pick illigible! head for lower East Side with
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SE 176-21
nothin'. $23 a month re
down there. Come out 2nt. Lower East Side: Puerto Ricans
a.ma, see, they scratch around the
garbage cans 1ookin' for food. Haw, stonin' it up all out
here. So we're angry, h
You wanna,die that plastuh? Angry. Gonna fight back.
ic death? On the golf course. G0
up 'der with Ike? You wanna die fightin~ in the streets for
what ya believe in. And
groove. Dodt hurt one
conspiracy. Hope ya all
Got any? Oh that power
This is a fnnn
the nurse, more like in
had this like doc how do
trip. He comes in says,
bronchitis. He sayd "Dr
cancer, doctor.
What's goin o
up the hills. Loggers c
friends got busted yeste
it. Some big company wa
think that's big issue.
clean up after their mes
say, well, we'd like towell that second kind, that's the
bit. Meet a lot of nice people in a
join it. Ready take some answers.
illigible! Phsew.
y infirmary. She was like sorta hip,
jail. Uh, last time Itas in jail I
ctor up er, ya know, doin' the whole
"What'ya got?" I said I got chronic
ink a lot of water." giggle! I got
Drink a lot of water.
n up here? Mining company's rippin'
uttin' down the trees. 42 of my
rday. San Francsco. Outside of
nna rip down all the trees. They
Me, well, ya know, as long as they
s. 42 in jail. So what! People
do somethin around here but, uh,
lota student apathy. That's an illusion. That means you're
apathetic. We organize a demonstration in a hospitall
New York. This is the only country I think in the world like
maybe if there's some gu
d oesn't have premedica
for emergency treatment.
us they said, "Well, ya
the records. Well, they
bk. They said, uh, we gy here who can correct that that
l care.. Ya know? $16 New York hospit
Whether you're sick or not. Three
.doctors say, "We're opposed to that." Well, they came to
got any ideas?" We said yeah, burn
weren't ready for_that trip, that's
ot anudder idea we ll give at slips
of paper to patients, Tell em not to pay the bills. Some
write their congressman.
Administration came down
20 zus stood un. 20 oth' 92-I'v* 7" "K' '*' *'*Aggitate. Community agitation.
said, "You're fired." Three guys.
er doctors said, "We tired - they
tired, we resgn. And moreover we gonna have a press con-
" -ierence. Whole worlds g
fee down. $2 from $4.onna watch." They gave in. Cut the
Not only for that hospital but for
all the hospitals in New York City now. Three doctors. Three
guys in this school do something. '
Eh, hepatitis comin' back. Hepatitis's a bad drug.
when I was arrested for
Jail in hashington Pederthat shirt thing, they put me in
al Ponitentiarv. Thev took a blood Z I J
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SE 176-21
sample. Dirty needle. I got hepatitis. I was sick three
months. Suing them for a million dollars. I! I win, be a
whole different scene. Million dollars. Wow! An the
Government an we go do 'dat whole skyrow thing again. An
they say, "whered you get your money?" We say, "You did,
you gave it to us, don't you rememba? We print it. We
steal it. That's where we get it. Get it from man or any-
place. Get it from the Commies hiding under the bed. Get it
from sluts in the street. Dope dealers, anythin'. We are
America's bad trip. We're a hallucination. Yep, we're
that had. Everything. Commies, anarchists, iigible!. _
Oh. International. Conspiracy. We are the people our
parents warned us against. We're dirty. fNoos sommes tous
indesirables. That's a French slogan. Noos sommes tous
indesirables. That means we all oughta take a bath. Right?
Ask any French teacher. Spring offenses started already.
On Harvard. On Columbia. San Francisco State. Goin again.
Berkeley goin' again. Panthers.are up at San Francisco
this mornin. Goin' again. Meanwhile in Detroit. Ya know,
during the riots theres suburban housewives calling TV
stations sayin' my neighborhood in flames. Pshew. They
hidin'. Sure it is honey. They afraid after Martin Luther
King got killed, see, Marty. Uh, selling ice cream cones
with Jim Spa down the block. Heavy center. Dope dealin'
center. An he pull file on him an all the cops and firemen
came. Said, "Hey, the country's on fire." They threw him
in Bellevue. Profits goin' to Bellevue. Spring offenses has
started. An soon summer will be here. As the Rolling '
Stones say, "Summer's time for fightin' in the streets." In
the streets. That's where we'll be. Ya wanna find us? Funky
_America, out in de streets. Oh, de say we don't want da
street - see, the street is all symbol in American culture.
-tiolence in the streets. An it's dirty in the §TGGtS. AH'
uh I used to be in the streets when I was in the depression
an I'm sending ya to college so ya won't haveta go to the
streets. S they built drive-in movies, an drivein funeral
parlors, an drivein universities. Stay inside. Keep stayin
inside, that's'r1ght. It's fun out ina streets. S'1ota fun.
Chicago's a ball. Revolution for uh hell of it. Uh, Commandeet.
I was just readin' his book bout French struggle. The
revolutionwill come through Joy not through sacrifice. Joy.
Well, what's joy. Joy boy toy. Joy joy Joy Joy joy. Joy
is £ightin' for what ya believe in. Joy is fuckin' in the
grass. Joy, Just a liquid soap. "Bubble bubble. All words;
all bullshit. Only thing that counts is action. Question?
Bid ya all take notes? {hues a second} We're all stunned, huh?
- 16 _ '
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Ain't got nuttin' to say, dumb freak. Like me. Not even *
any Jocks, somethin to say.
Johnny Cash. I dig 'im. Jocks. Dig the Right
Wing. Yeah, Goldwater. They got a lota balls. Gotta have
balls ta go in Tennessee an tell em TVA ain't no good, ya
know. Go to Olds Age Convention and tell em Social
Security ain't good. Ha. Ha. at's good. Question
asked from audience! Why did we go? Well, I think
there are two reasons. One was to present the reality to
Americans we saw it our daily lives. See, so the whole
world could see. I mean, like three months before that
see, we had a-party similar to that in Grand Central Station.
Birth of spring. Yip-in. And, uh, 8,000 people came at
midnight. Celebrate the birth of spring.. To experience
community. Sorta holy. Like goin to church. Touch each
other. Smile an throw balloons in de air and get stoned.
Sing. An some kids climbed up on a telephone booth, uh,
not a telephone booth there, where they tell ya where all
the trains aren't rennin, that little booth with - got _
a clock on it. An he pulled hands off the clock, see. 200
police came charging in with clubs big, they call the £lyin'
wedge. Swoosh. Uh, Knute Hockney taught em the trick.
They come flyin in SMASH! illigible! sprained ankle, uh,
knocked unconscious. Yeah. Friend of mine, RON SHAY, came
over to help. They threw him through a glass window. Broke
both his hands. One he can't use, see. 100 arrested. Couple
hundred sent to the hospital. when I tell the story people
always say, Why did those kids take the hands off the clock?
Somethin' wrong there, ya know? I mean whyn't those cops take
g their hand off RON SHAY? Property values versus human values.
.0k.- We'll bring that message to Chicago. Let the whole world
see it. We want to stay in the park. Sorry you guys, can't
stay in
reality of living in a police state. Secondly we wanta show
the beauty of strugglin for what youlelieve in. Guess that's
why I went. went to talk to kids. Kids went clean ror Gene.
ya had long That was a very tricky campaign, ya know. If
hair they shoved ya in the cellar lick stamps. Wouldn't let
- ya go out campaigning. G0 clean for Gene. Now we're goin'
dirty for yippie. -Can't change it out 'der. Reform, re-
structure, all those words. Bullshit! Need a whole new pie
not just another slice. S'that answer it?
Question: You say you're gonna match insanity of
the system with your own insanity. hats the difference?!
Ha Ha. You think I'll let that hang? I have my own insanity.
I like it. Boots tit. So I keep doin' it. I don't like
1- 1'] @-
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SE 176-21
r
their insanity. That's all. You don't have to buy mine.
I'm just uh, I and I do my thing. You try to do my thing,
well, I have to kill ya. Cause I'm it. S'a1l I've got.
I. Yeah, that's ego. Ego trippin. Talk about I, what'm
I gonna do? I, I, I dig ego. S'a1l ya got. It's beautiful.
If ya got it, falunt it, that's what they say. Hark Twain
sayd, "The only people that should use the word We are kings,
editors, and persons with tape worm." You're a long-haired
freak. So we illigible! unpopular war here, a second American
revolution. You shoulda seen the first one, you shoulda been
there. Ours. Most unpopular war in our country's history.
Crazy, long-haired, anarchists, minutemen. Up in Lexington,
Concord, where I come from. They got British pigs, see, down
the road, ya know. Thousand British pigs fully armed. Tear
gas, mace, the whole hit. They got {illigihle! nine hours
late. Paul Revere comes ridin' in on motorcylce, ya know, an
PIGS ARE COMIN', THE PIGS ARE COMIN'. Ya know, "Everybody
out." They hay, Ah go away man, I gotta plow the fields.
No, no kiddin. They're comin'. They'll be here two hours.
So they all like get their muskets, go down to Lexington
Green, hang around there, Buckins Tavern right across the
street, say "I wanta get smashed." They come back, they say,
"Hey Revere, you're fulla shit. It's 4 o'clock. They aren't
here yet. British are nine hours late. They had this
Lieutenant Colonel, SMITH, see, weighed 275 pounds and he
wanted to ride in front. They were nine hours late, see, so
like half the minutemen took off. They had 38 drunken guys
standin' around the green there and, uh, see they like very
freaked out cause of the, uh, yippie stuff they were
pumpin' in the media. An they expected 2,000 armed minute-
men on the greens so they were like all doin' this, ya know.
Somebody trips a horse, a gun gets fired, boom, who knows
-that. history. Shot heard round the world...Samue1 Adams
sittin' there like Jerry Rubin winkin'. Ah, that's cool.
That's cool - they gonna get thek's. They got Washington
helluva general. They made him commander in chief bause he
hadn't wen a battle. Up til then. The perfect guy. Failure.
That's what Daley said. The illigible! came here to wreck the
Democratic Party and rip up Chicago and they failed. That's
great. This's the first movement that's gonna be built on
failure. You'd call it anything. We love him, he's our founder
I mean, where'd we be without him. What would we have done
if we were let stay in the park? That's a good question.
That's a very good question. What would we have done in the
park. We promised a lot of stuff. Wow! Beatles and the
Yellow Submarine an they gonna pull up in Lake Highigan.
An Bob Dylan be 'der. Ooooh. All this stuff f1yin' around.
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SE 176-21 _
Well, brothers, this is illigible! to Chicago, see. They
didn't get taken. I knew 'dat when like nobody came up and
_ said where's Bob Dylan. He was there, though. See him
sittin' up in a tree smokin' pot Sunday night diggin' the whole
thing. Ya dont believe me, ask 'im. illigible!, go ask
in. He was there. Ho Chi Min sent us medical supplies.
Thanks Ho. We take anythin'. Isn't itgast your bedtime?
illigible! I said like if he tried to do my thing I would
be forced to. Cause I am it. He should do his own thing.
Everybody can, can be anarchistic. We can have a very anarchistic
society in the future. Electronic tribalism. That's what
that converted Catholic from Canada calls it. Right?
Electronic tribalism. Pshew. He's a heavy cat. He sees
through it. He don't do good. $100,000 grants an all that.
Tellin' all the businessmen how to do it.~ But 'dey can't
figure him out anyway. They - cause they didn't he's
right. They didn't get their information. They get it
different. That's why it's groovy, like dea1in92 with the
establishment an FBI. They don't understand what we're
talkin about at all. Different language. Different
stimulants. Different dress. Different attitudes toward
sex, families, the whole bit. Culture. Mao said, I mean
whout culture dull weighted soldiers. So build new culture,
You wanna come be in it that's ok. illigible! call up the
TV station ask em if you're neighborhood's on fire. More
questions?
' Question - could not be heard. Too far away
from the microphone.! I
. You want to stand up, identify yourself?
Question too far away! '
Q Nah, flower child. Nah. No. It don't hurt
them, they're people underneath their clothes -are naked
just like me. Cops, too. They're naked. But, see, they
get.into that uniform, the straights, that's what I call
em, straights"cause they, you know, there's straight
" collars, an put starch in an straight cuffs an they take
the pants n line em down the middle. Those people gotta
think straight. Straight jacket. Tey take off their
straight Jacket, theyre naked, just like us. I don't
hate em. Our fight is with the system.
' uestion! -
_ N0! laughter! Hbtalitarianism to the left.
laughter! What ya ask? unheard! Yeah. Have I been to
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an 176-21 _
or China? I can't even leave the country,'what d'ya
mean. I cant get out. comment from audience! 0h, well,
first of all Russian, I don't dig that, that's state '
capitalism. So we check them off. My sympathies lie with
Czechoslovakian people. They're fightin' in the streets. 0k.
Anyway, I just found outIussia's a member of NATO. Now,
China I don't know a lot about China it's way out. Rah rahrah. ,S'a1ot of em. Yeah, I get orders from China. My
instructions are to prepare the beachhead. May 9, 1970.
Cape Cod. They're comin' in. Free chop suey. They don't
know if I like it. Hay be I wouldnit. _Who picks up the
garbage? Rubin's the other one, he's got a better answer
- for that. Umm, the future, the futures undetermined, like,
uh, there could be garbage disposals give everybody.
Disposal self-destructive food. Maybe we won't eat. I
don't know. I mean, if it's of your concern you pick it up.
We pick up garbage in the free store. We give out things
free in Lower East Side Cilligible! go pick up the garbage.
Pick up the garbage. In our communes. No, they don't.
Some people leave garbage. Its a constant battle between
artists and garbage collectors. R£ure's out there. Immense
possibilities. You'll learn somethin'. Learn how it can
be done. Self-destructive garbage. Garbage! Garbage!
Pshew! You shou1d've seen the garbage strike in New York.
thousand tons of garbage in the Lower East Side.
and piles of garbage. Higher than hell. You had
this like vision of history, see, 50 years. New York's
I destroyed. Historian's right. illigible! went by nuclear
attack. People just didn't wanta pick up their garbage.
Down it went. Garbage waste product of capitalism. No.garbage in Cuba. 1 said 1:. cuan, right. Fidel. You
knowimat he talks about? He said go Cuba Revolution illigible!
-abolition of money by 1975. Free phones in Cuba now. Isle
-of Pine called Isle of Youth. 20,000 young people with the
' Government support. Livin' free. No money. Pick up bike,
drive it down to end of the street, somebody wants it, driveRussia
Piles
' it back.' They work like hell, fuck like hell, they love it.
90 miles. I know theynaCommies, sure they're commies. They
can call em anythin' they want. They're doin' it. Tryin'.
s .Iend swords. Economic boycott h everything. Russia don't like
em much either. I ain't afraid of Russians, rah I don't know
that they want this country for. I mean, the Chinese, what'd
they want it for. What're they gonna do with us - 10,000
mental institutions in this_country. Pshew. Lot of people.
Question unheard from audience! Nb, I didn't
say you were gonna stop me, I said that if you were going
to try to do my thing pause, more comment from person!.
Well, he presented the alternative, he said there's like
your sanity, and there's Government insanity, and , uh,
that's choice, and I say well, you can't have mine cause
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SE 176-21
mines mine, more comment from audience! Why don't you
rephrase it a little. I got chromasome damage. laughter!
The cops hit ya enough that's where ya get it from. Wha -
rephrase it. person rephrasing it.! No! Oh no. 'Dey
ain't no yippies. Didn't you know that? Ha! I gorgot to
tell you that. Its an exclamation point. Yippie. With
an exclamation point. It's a slogan. Der are no yippies.
Question from audience! What? Repeat of question! You're
gonna put on my boots? Sleep four hours a day, run around
the streets all night, £ightin' cops, iuckin' my wife, that's
how ya do it.
Comment from audience! You want 'dat recipe?
Read the book. laughter! Comment from audience! Ah, *
Black Capitalism. Smells. Smells like the white capitalism.
Sneaky, but it won't work. It's not gonna work. Not gonna
accept it. Those kind of programs don't work. But that,
that's just uh the view. Do ya believe it? Oh, give me
yours.
Question! When did I say we? More comment! Oh.
More comment! Who's we? He, me and her. I don't know, -
I suffer irom that problem, sure. I shouldn't use the word
we. I stand corrected. Right. more comment! Uh, well,
it operates on a variety of levels. I mean, if ya feel an
identification with everythin that's gain on 'dat your
folks and newspapers in town here don't, like, I feel some!
kind of bond between them. I feel closer bond between my
brothers and sisters that live together on Lower East Side
-that help each other out of jail, ya know. Take care of
_each-other, share our stuff. Feel close bond with em.
Thats a we._ Does that answer it? Comment from audience!
Uh, mostly it's an I. I mean, ya see the whole thing it
"turns to art. Ya know, it's just like a painting. A lot
of these questions are like very hard to answer. You don't
ask Piceaso, ya know. Like, how come you Tonly put one eye
in the middle of the head. Can't answer it. It just comes
_ out. I'm God. That's it. Holy shit. Whoo. Enlightment
' in Spokane. I never realized that. Thanks. Well, s'any
more answers. What're we gonna do? What's goin' on in this -
school. Right, ok. Question! You mean after I get out
of jail in thirty years. Continues question! Ah ha! That's
good, that's going to be up to you. I mean, what,_what is
this, gonna end? Revolution perpetual, like a river. Just
flows. BUT! But I think, you see, and this is a hope. An
this is a¢&ustration because I believe that welnve a society
oi abundance. In a society of abundance you don't operate in
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the same principles as a society of scarcity. And we can
have that society of abundance. Ya know, we can have what-
ever we want so that the, ya know, if you have a thing like,
uh, Gcvernment or whatever the hell it's called it's directed
directly to the needs of the people because the only question
it asks constantly is what d'ya want. What d'ya want, what
d'ya want. Ya know? And if, uh, people come along an ask
the Government for somethin' and the Government can't give
em then the people are in charge again, thats all. S'that's
the way it's always been.
Question! You distribute it. You distribute it.
Comment! I ain't gonna be the head. Comment! Ask SDS.
l ain't gonna be no head.' Comment! I just told ya man,
it's gonna ten years it's gonna take four minutes. Process
illigible! gonna be farmers they call em Agre what'd they
call it? Comment! What? Agre..? Comment! Agrobusiness?
Oh, they don't call it dat. That's what yournll it. Agronimus.
Ooh. That's a heavy that's a big word. Agronimus. Right.
It's sittin' in a little thing, press a button, there's '
illigible!. Maybe they dig it. Maybe farmers dig. See,
you have that concept again that man has to be controlled,
that he's basically evil, that he's basically nonproductive.
Ya see? I don't have that concept. I think if people are
given more freedom ya know they'll do 'dat. I mean, farmers
they dig farmin. Youlow, what a thing to pick out. Why
don'tcha pick out insurance salesman. Ya know, then we have
somethin' to talk about. But farmers? Dig farmin. I like
it. I pick corn for like, uh, six, seven months, 40 cents
an hour. It was fun.' S'better than being an insurance
salesman. You could eat it right away. Can't eat double
indemnity. Ugh. You'd throw up. Life insuranee,yeah.
Thatfs good illigible!. Get that life insurance. Keep
_control even when you're gone. Yeah. Helluva system.
Invest in life insurance, parking meters, paid toilets. Pshew.
I mean, you gotta think about 'dat. We're in Denver and we
hada go and didn't have a dine an ya start to wonder... - .
now should I do it outside? That might not be legal but like
I aidt got a dime. Sneak in, under. We put out a whole
book called "Fuck the System in Lower East Side." 15,000
copies. Tells ya how to live free right now in this country.
Free!p-
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657 PM URGENT I0-26-59 SEM
TO DIRECTOR AND CHICAGO
FROM BOSTON I00-38603 __ABBIE @oFFmAra, AnL;/4:-rm/A7 IA A/5
on rnxs DATE suaascr HELD PRESS CONFERENCE AT MINUTEMAN
A:s¢c»:s!!3F
STATUE coucono, mAss. FOUR
AND ARL AS LAW AGAINST PEOPLE'S STATE OF MIND PEOPLE CHARGEDTHIRTY P.N. SUBJECT REFERRED TO HIS TRIALMr. Tolson...._.._..
Mr. D.-L-ach.-._
Mr. T-' 1.ers_._._
Mr. Muhr......._._.
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Mr. ;. f;c!'.......__
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Miss GuL;'y._ _
7;-.§I- -F 2'I _92
WITH THOUGHTS. SPOKE AGAINST VIET NAM WAR SUBJECT INVITED PEOPLE
TO WASHINGTON, 0.0. ELEVEN FIFTEEN next T0 PROTEST uAR. STATE
HEY WOULD LEAVE THE MORATDRIUM RALLY THAT DATE AT FIVE PM. [ND MARCH T0 JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, PURPOSE AT cowconn wAs to RA
FUNDS FOR TRIAL. HE REFERRED TO JUDGE AT HIS CHICAGO TRIAL As
.; HANGING JUDGE ! bT LHM FOLL0?i."H _ _ A ;~1§g§D EjL1QZ
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1., "
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SullivanFROM DIRECTOR FBI . Q2 A**°" ° = "'1"-4 Y-*1
AIABE??? H. HOFFMAN, AKA, ARL, 66: ifu.
REBSTEL T0 DIRECTOR AND CHICAGO TEN TWENTYSIX LAST.
l'I92f92
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FOR mnonmuon, RETEL ADVISED THAT SUBJECT, mmmc
PRESS CONFERENCE 1-1ELo TEN TWENTYSIX LAST AT concono,spams: AGAINST VIETNAM wan, mo mvrrso PEOPLE To 7?; Ki
wnsnmowon, o. 0., ELEVEN FIFTEEN NEXT To PROTEST wm.
SUBJECT STATED "THEY" woum LEAVE THE monnromuu RALLY
THAT DATE APPARENTLY REFERRING To RALLY SCHEDULED FOR
THE ELLIPSE nunmc AFTERNOON or ELEVEN FlF'_I'I-JEN NEXT!
AT FIVE P. M. mm mncn To wsncs DEPARTMENT.
wro IMMEDIATELY muss APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AND
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FEDERAL DIJHEIU DF I|WESTlGlTlDN
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Deleted under exernptionlsl _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1 1 1_1__ 1 _ __ _ with no segregable
material available for release to you.
Information pertained only to a third party with no reference to you or the subject of your request.
Information pertained only to a third party. Your name is listed in the title only.
Dgcnmentlsl originating with the following govemrnent agencyiiesl _ ,:__ _ 1 ,_*_ _ _ . 1 1
_ ,__ 1,_:__ i 1 1__o 1 . __s___ _ , was/were forwarded to them for direct response to you.
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has not been processed in this file. The ORIGINAL of this document' 7''* "* **r_.g _""**i_,"7' "'7E? "195 es 1*>ee1__I>#°*=e55~f=<1_i:_1*?i1@ H§iJ0o1l:-l33l3_:i?5is
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= PAGE ¢'0. 1
' IN ADDITION TO RENNIE DAVIS, WILLIAM KUNSTLER, AND
FIRST NAME UNKNOWN! C_'_'IIl, HOFFMAN ALSO SPOKE AT THE GU
. "IUM.
' DAVIS IS QUOTED AS SAYING THAT "WE FEEL 'A QUARTER OF
I A MILI.IO.N PEOPLE CONSTITUTE A PERMIT AND WE ARE GOING TO T1-LE
92A I».-"1-IITE HOUSE" WITH OR WITHOUT A PERMIT.
_! VA AT A SUBSEQUENT PRESS CONTERENCE ON SATURDAY, DAVIS
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I i- PICKETING. THIS DE1"lO1¬SI'R_I;TION WILL BE ENTIRELY SEP£_R.$-.TE
BUT WILL INCLUDE DEMONSTRATORS WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE MASS
921 RALLY. '
92 on NOVEMBER NINE LAST, -Anvlsm THAT ABBIE
~ }:oFra~:.A.N wouw HOLD A PRESS CONFERENCE AT THE JUSTICE BUILDING- s
92
AT TI-EREZE P=1"1= T1-LAT DATE, ..l
i I
5 A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE FBI OBSERVED BETWEEN TEE.-i¬TY
Y1' LTYFWE "HIPPIE TYPE" INDIVIDUALS MILLING AROUIID T1-IE
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JUSTICE BUILDING ON SUNDAY, FROM ABOUT THREE TO THREEi
- 01" OBSERVED Al92-ID no P1755, .
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1 PAGE FOUR
92 HUNDRED PERSONS. PRIOR TO HIS SPEECH, A MOVIE CALLED "THE
92 YIPPIES" WAS SHOWN. IT DEALT WITH THE CHICAGO RIOTS DURING
THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION IN NINETEEN SIXTYEIGHT.
A ABBIE HOFFMAN WAS INTRODUCED BY AU PROFESSOR GARY1 . '
' WEAVER. 92
92H ,- I?-IN SUMMARY, HOFFMAN STATED "A REVOLUTION IS GOING ON
TO OVERTHROW A SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS THE TRIAL CHICAGO! TO GO
i ON." HE SAID THAT ON NOVEMBER FIFTEEN, PEOPLE WILL MARCH TO
TEE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, "SURROUND IT, PICKET IT AND PICK IT
J U? AND TAKE IT HOME." '
THAT HOFFMAN WAS VERY EVASIVE IN
V SFEECH, BUT GAVE THE IMPRESSION THERE MAY BE VIOLENCE ON
NOVEMBER FIFTEEN NEXT. F
1 ' .I HOFFMAN INDICATED THAT THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE EMBASSY,
E23, WILL BE PICKETED ON FRIDAY, NOVEMBER FOURTEEN NEXT. i1
yABOUT FIVE COUNTER-PICKETS DEXGNSTRATED Inn DISTRIBUTED xi
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FEDERAL lllllilll DF IIVESTWITIDN
FDIPA DELETED PAGE IIFDRIMTIDII SHEET
Pagets! withheld entirely at this location in the le. One or more of the following statements. where
indicated, explain this deletion.
Deleted under exemptionls! _ , _ _ e_ __ _ _ _ _ ._ _, with no segregable
material available for release to you.
lnfomiation pertained only to a third pa;-t_v with no reference to you or the subject of your request.
Information pertained only to a third party. Your name is listed in the title only.
Documentlsl originating with the following government agenci-ties! _ s. _ __ _. _ _ __ .___
_ _ _ __ _ _ _:_ _ _ s _ _ .was/were forwarded to them for direct response to you.
Pagelsl referred for consultation to the following government agencyliesl; ___.____________._
, s _ _ ____T_ 7 _ . _ _ as the infonriation originated with them. You will
be advised of availabilits upon retum of the material to the FBI.
Pagetslwithheld for the following reasonlsl: This document, which is a carbon copy,
has not been processed ifnfthis file. The ORIGINAL*o£ this document
is tozbe or has been processed in File i Eli 13 ...@l
For yourinfonnation: ___ __ _ _ i _ _ __ _ __ _ _ _
The following number is tn be used for reference regarding these pages:- _ HQ _ m+ =2>~1=- we llbzlcj
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FBI
Date: 12/22/69
Transmit the Iollowinq in _ _r____ A _ Typr in plainlr-xi ur CF30! K K j
v1=,_____ ¥"m< Z r_r r_o__r__ _ a_______i_
summer: ABBOTT_.H..HOEF'MMl_aka - PRINCIPAL sm3.mc'r! "- ~ -
ARI. Dh; 1. _/_=-9
Criminal
ti on from
12/16/69 .
92 , /g:Bureau RM! ls
HowI-or92'-'-
--.. BY--___ I UL Un92t. 1- 1 - Y><'»92 * g L 5;, an-;,
i Priority!
-92.__-_-__.¢-¢-.__.--___-_-.¢__-__-.-_-_-.-.-_...-....-.-.--__._
DIRECTOR, FBI 76 311!
mom: SAC, NEW YORK 76-6! __ -
<9 PP !
0:06!
ReNYai:-tel, 9/14/69, in captioned matter.
Enclosed for the Bureau are 12 coniee of an LHMregarding subject's eigpearance in the Criminal Court of the
. City of New York, on /15/69. Five copies of the I.-HM are
enclosed for Chicago., /
5* r: ewed
- 100-M9923 ABBOTT now?
- 100- 5292! OTT HOFFMANHe-.-: York {100=
lieu York / /Chicago £176-1 §ncLs.5! mg
1 cc Grim. Div-
Datc Forw-__l. .2-L
5 Q 4'7/info U go; 8 ' .-J
Approved: ___, 6 6, :1 -_,__~__,__ Sept__ M er ___.
Special! Aqen in Charge. JP-£4!L4/Q.
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Q-of FEDERALBYBEAL orlxvnwncirloxw New York, New York
]nRq®yHmuRdnm December 22, 1969
H~92» Bufile 176-3H
NY file 176-6
Abbott H. Hoffman ~
Anti-Riot Laws
. - , /-3-f-9'1. ,5f-IZJC/Q _
Reference is made to New York memorandum dated
September H, 1969.
A review of the records of the Criminal Court of
the City of New York, Part lBl, Room 221, 100 Centre Street,
New York City NYC!, on December 16, 1969, disclosed that the
charge of Illegal Possession of Weapons against the subject in
connection with his arrest by the NYC Police Department PD!
on March 23, 1969, was dismissed by the Court on December 15,
1969, on a motion made by an Assistant District Attorney of the
City of New York, based on insufficient evidence to prosecute.
On December 16, 1969, a representative of the NYC
District Attorney's Office advised a Special Agent of the
Federal Bureau of Investigation that the subject did not personally
appear in Part lBl of the Criminal Court of the City of New Yorkon December 15, 1969, but was represented by h?s attorney Gerald
Lefcourt.
The March, 1969 issue of "Rights"
self-described as a publication of the
National Emergency Civil Liberties
Committee NECLC!, on page 12, reported
that on February 1, 969!, the sactc
welcomed Gerald Lefcourt to itsistaff
as Legislative Director.
A characterization of the NECLC is attached
hereto.
This document contains neitherqsnnnenmnnn Ann mam n92n92u92n19292s<l:92n:-l'=UUllLHL92FllU§UJ.Ul|D ll92JJ 92i92!ll92¢-L92AD.L92-IIID
of the FBI. It is the property
of the FBI and is loaned to your
agency; it and its contents are
not to be distributed outside
your agency.
; ,7 oK" //"
ENCLOsuw:.
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-re-_r.{A 1
Abbott H. Hoffman
APPENDIX
ll
nnrxouat emsnerncv CIVIL LIBERTIES
COMMITTEE, Formerly Known As
Eesrspcv Gigi} Lib@rii§§,§?em1t!¢9
The "Guide to Subversive Organizations and
Publications of ecember 1, 1961, by the Committee on
Un-American Activities, United States House of Representatives,
Washington, D.C., describes the Emergency Civil Liberties
Committee ECLC! as an organization whose avowed purpose is
to abolish the House Cenmittee on Us-American Activities,
It stated the ECLC was established in 1951, and "although
representing itself as a non-Communist group, actually
operates as a front for the Communist Party."
"The New York Times" issue of April l, 1968,
contained an article reflecting the ECLC was changing its
name to the National ECLC NECLC! "to reflect our determination
to develop a vital national civil liberties organization in
all $6 states as rapidly as possible."
The "Newark Sunday News" of Newark, New Jersey,
issue of April 20, 1969, contained an article showing
the HECLC, oi 25 Best 26th Street, ew York, New York,
operates from its office an anti-war legal help organization
for draft-age aen, reservists and those on active duty.
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aREFERENCE
Chicago
ENCLOSUREq¢ -': Report of SA ated 2/26/70 at Jg
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D?-.1- 1-:9-_l'z-".'sp-JIJ6/4a T0 THE BUREAU ! ' _
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CHICAGOOne copy of Final? Disposition Report.
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on substanve "caéef O E
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ADMINISTRA 'TIVE
Count XVI in Certificate oi Contempt was
deleted by Judge HOFFMAN during court day because
of an objection made to that particular item of
contempt by Attorney LEONARD WEINGLASS.
_ Be _
COVER PAGE
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UMTED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUs. ICE
FEDERAL BUREAU or INVESTIGATION92 .
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2/ 27/ 70 ' '
176-28 Burnnu Flio I: 176-34
ABBOTT HOWARD HOFFMAN
1I l_92A___ . I- Li r92 ll Iv - ' ' -
ANTI RIQT LAWS - COHTEHPT CF COURT
On 2/14/70, HOFFMAN was found guilty of 23
separate criminal contempts and committed to
custody of Attorney General of U. S., or
his authorized representative, for period
of B months. Judgement and Commitment and
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Q; On February 26, 1970, Assistant United
ates attorney AUSA! HICEEAEL HASH, made nvaiinble
the following Judgement and Commitment and Certificate
of Contempt pertaining to United States of America v.
ABBOTT H. HOFFMAN: '
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*__IR '.I1£E IIITITFZD $1-*'92T3'*IS DISTRICT CGJRT
FOR THE 17031311311! DISIRICT CF ILLITOI-'3
1T.2Ps§Ii T!TV_iTii@ii
UNITED ST!-1'13 OP A:-ERICA
ex rel. Judge Julius J. Foif*.na.n -
v. no. 69 ca 180
mm 11. mom-mu _
491199?-TTtFE!BA§¢£:?1I7=-'*- T
On this lhth day of February, 1970, the defendant, Abbott
ii. Hoffman, appeared 5:; iif, *'- '1z1sa, Leon - M" was
IT I8 AI3OUD..T1"-D that the defendant, Abbott H. liofrmsn, has
hem zfouud. guilty of twenty-three 3! 1nd.192r3.cl1.1a1 "and separate criminal.
contcmpts as specified in the Certificate of Contempt and as stated
on this date; end the Court having asked the defendant, Abbott H..11 to I
P 0 r
I
f -I1 Aw on specication III
7 dsqra on specication IV
J, dmr on specification V i
1 dqr on apccificction
1 day on specication VII
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J. day on specification IX
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qualified otcer and that the copies serve as the connitment of the
defendant.
ESTER:
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UIII'I'ED 8'1. M18 DIQTRICI JUDGE
- - 'm'mW?
the Court recmmcnds ccmniincnt to a. place desigmted. by
the Attornqy General. .
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'l.1TTIT£D STATES DISTJCT COURT
NORTi5J!1I DISTRICT O1 ILLINOIS
l3r92S"1'1'11Ii DIVISIOII
I3I11'1'£D STMIES OF A}-ERICA
ex rel.
Honorable Judge Julliua J. Hoffman
Y8: I10. CR
I-ILQQTT H. HGFFI-1-92N
In conformity with Rule 1.201!, I-ederol Rules or Criminal
Procedure, 13 U.S.C., I here-by certify tmt the series oi cz'1min::.1
conteeaptn set forth below uere ccrrnittcd in the actual presence or
the court and were seen or heard by the court clurim the trial of
the cc:-;.e of United States or America v. David T. Dellinger, at 111.,
69 CB 150, which commenced on September 21+, 1969.
This woo a cane marred by continual :11sn.~pt.'we outbursts in
direct defiance of Judicial authority by the dcrendonta and defense
co'.m:se3.. I will npecify here the instance: of conduct of record which
I consider to have been canto-zxgtuouzz, but I oJ.oamo..:.e the entire
record. of the case of United States or America v. David '1'. Dellinger,
ct 0.1., 69 CR 180, a part of this proceeding.
I-mch of the contemptuous conduct in this cane does not show,
of record. The constant nuzmnu end miokcring emanating fro;-1 the
U 5
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defense table were not captured on the printed page. I-Io record, no
matter how al:iJ.1uJ.1,v transcribed, eon adequately portray the venom,
scream, and tone of voice employed by a speaker. Bo record, no
matter hear akilfxly transcribed, can mlequately reflect the applause,
the 5u£fm:s, an-1 other subtle tactics employed by these eontczmors in
an attempt to break up this trial. I have
theotrics, hietriouiee, and cffeetotions.
lest z-4' eileme be cor.-.==tr=_=.cr1 am Q-pro-.m.i=
citations of eentcrqrt in this cause, I 111-.1
which is clearly an-.1 ceqnntehv portrayednot
I n
Betfocused
Ote hhm
for theon these cheap
for the record
seize oi the
t myself to that conduct
in the record.
Bits was a long trial. The belmvior err the defendants and
defence counsel was prepared with direct on-.1 defiant contempt for
tho court and the fecleml Judicial system as a -.-hole. Here is a record
Of exceptional circ92merta11ces iiaich were c-.isru;pti.92.-e of the proceedings.
It has been W considered ,1u:!;;~.cnt throvgh-out thia ease that the
' r
bob:-vior of the defendants ace aimed at baiting the Judge and inciting
and he:-eae% the United statea Attorneys in an attempt to stop the
trial. I would have been derelict in w duty ca e. Federal District
Judge if I were to permit such bane and unethical tactics to succeed.
Gonecqqentlv, I have waited until this trial van concluded before
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cmplex and difficult ease Ccmpellnd me to renew time ecu:-ac.
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on Be-pteubcr 26, mm; the opening statezzent by the Gmrc~:m-
nout, defendant IIc1'I':r.a.n rose and blew a kiss to the Jmwa. Tr. 9!
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On October 23, well after the date of the Court.-.1 ordnr
aequester5.r;»;: the ,1m'_92,' and oz-daring the Jun that they may see no
newspapers, the écfenant liamnn held up u ncwspagwr so the jurors
might see the headline in the courtrocm. The fo1.1m:1rg caJ.1oquy
occu.~:-real: _
"rm. 8Ch'UL'1Z: If the Court please --.
MR. 1¬UIJSTL3. i: I would rather be directed.
EB. if-C11'ULT2-: Before you direct him, if you are got-3
to direct 1-11*. Kwmstler, I would like to make one observation
for the record. At 12:30 this morning or 12:30 curly this
afternoon, when the Jury was mkjourned, after the 3m:-y atood
up, zlcfcnd.-mt Ilofman -- in fact, he had the sane article that
he has in bent of his there -.
RR. Yes, i waa going to show it to -
Hc led. up the newspaper for than to see
r-
KB. 11$.-YI*»"-.¢.H: It ain't a newspaper. It is the Berkeley
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started to talk when another lawyer was npc:.92k1r.g, Mr. Kunstlcr,
I told hm to remain quiet. 1.':r.r, I can direct him to remain
quiet. The Lmitcd States Attorney was szpeakina to the Court.
Ile is entitled to be heard Just as you are entitled to be
heard. We are not runnizzg a circus. This lmppens to be 0.
court -- even tizsugh there are those who don't chum views.
HR. YZb'II5TI£IP.: I would suggest, yaur Honor, then, that
Hr. iiofnan be perzittc-6 i:-0 re:.'po:.1c'1 and not be iniicrruptéci -
THE COUFJI: I will not hce.r frcm your clients.
rm. sic.! 2-IR. ac:-"I-'1-ms: I mu". 5.1:-,1; trying to be helpful, your
Hannr.
T_T$'COU£'£1: I will not hear from grcrur client. I will let
24:. Schultz rum. his obncrmtiozi.
Tr. 3,666-67!
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III.
On October 28, at the close of the session, the defendant
Hoffman IEfl.l..1|C<1 to rise in the custazm-.z'y an.-mner 1.-hr.-n directed. to do
so by the 218151331. Tr. 11,618-19!
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On October 29, the f0L1.o;1ing colloquy occurred:
T413 COLRT: I 1:111 ask you to sit down, sir. You have
a. 1u:Ȣ;,'er to speak for you. I haven't been told that you
reprecent u..u.' of th-we 6.eien<umt:."-, either.
MR. lIQFFIi'921I: He have been told that they are defendants,
{chm -1"-
l. I0?JxH: I-lay the record. show that that was the defendant
llofrzan who made that .-
TH13 COURT: Yea; yes
MR. I-WAII: The previous statement wee made by the
defendant Dellingger.
EH3 COXIRT: me last statement was mad: by the defc-ndant
Abbie llorfmen.
FR. 1!O.FE'§-tklf :I don't use that lest name anymore.
mm come: 11111 you remain quiet.
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urn-grv: "me azernaon 515519?--» -1-'="
to 1-inc an the canto: £111 1==m1*°l" Tr u'
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' on Octob=."r 30, after a brief. 1-cccsa the Judge return:-G. to the
bench in the afternoon and the dcfendzmt llofman again refused to P5-BB
I
cin the cmstamry narmcr. fr. 5:853!
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I.
On November 12, the defendant Ilofman am} the other defendants
openly 1110511011 at the Judge while he wan making :1. ruling. The fo1.lo~.r-
inf; colloquy occurred:
Y'all; COIRT: That observation will remain on the rc-cord
and this loud .'i.n.u{;ht'.er has got to cam-ze.
I-IR. HQ-I-'1-mi: I-Zr. Heinglaze, how many years do -you have
to laugh at?
I-t. 1'-.'EI.I?GL*=.S$: I would further want to --
I-ill. ll-Fbliis I rm talldng to my lawyer.
Tn 6,25'r~59!
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II»
On November 26, after the Court zmde a ruling the folluwim
colloquy occurred:
"HE COURT: I decide eaelx motion on ita o".-m papers,
air, and I am not aware of any witnesses that the Gmrernmcnt
has srougiat ::1c.! to bring here. I don't know whether --
2-EB. I3OF5I&=1¬: dc are very confused about this. Is the
Go-.mrn~r.ent going to pJ:Bs£'n'b our defense as well as our
prosecution? -
1531$ COL; Have you gotten that - what is the name of
that ntercndant epeaizing?
I-Q. 1IC§3*1-MAR: Just Abbie. I don't have a last n-me,
Judge. I lost it. We ea-.n't respect the law when it's
tyrmmy.
11113 COIJRT: Are you able to hear the nlefendant Hufumx
' am. near:-an: ».m>1¢.
§!_T_.Tl>C; 1'E~..__ R; Zea, gr."
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xOn December 15, the defendant Ho."1.'.1n opcnly 1a92-92s:.h¢=1 at th~'=
Court cluring its ruin; on a motion, and azbzitted it.
"HR. IEOITP:-i"3
'21-._ 1.1,181!XII»
i was iavghing.
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XIII-
On Dz-coo.-.ber 30, while the defendant Barman was testifying
on cross examination, the f0]-1O.fiI. co11.oqu;r occurred:
"ms COURT: I will admonisla the my -- the Uaited Staten
ii-
ME HITIIEISS: H.-zit until you see the movie.
THE COURT: -- if it is rcqnhed that he be admonished-
IHIB BITIHISS: wait until you sec the movie.
T183 COURT: And you be quiet.
15IEiFI1P1'S5: 1-rel]. -- the movie's going to be better.
THE 001113.: Did you got that Last, mm Reporter?
TIIE RIIORTZ-3: Yes, air.
BIB COURT: The last ::ord.': spo!sen by the witness on the
atand.
Tr. 13.013!' 1
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llOn January 9, the defendant Ilof~ ~.an opardy laughed at the
Court :~g;:.i41. Tn: 1aJ.Lo'.:i~:3 collnquy ocm-red:
'7-E .
amount of hmor 92-men talhirag. about a. bo.1.h.'ocxa -
'J.1{E C0182: Oh, I knm that is your f:~..rorite reply
rm. 1551'-"£1-1131* 1 laughed, too."
I
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?IUIESTL'= .I~ O11, your Honor, th~re in a cert-.a.i.n
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On January 1%, there was a:;ni:'1 am excessive and obnoxious out
burst 9.1. r-u<;ht-er the tabla of the clefcndmzts. Hm following 1 _
colloquy mzcurred
"rm. Y-LHSTL!l'l: I Just don't want to get th1'O92m in my
chair by the msu~c1m.1:; as I will. have to zit doam, but I Just
don't thin}: it is fair to :10 that.
HR. IXCE-Z'"2-L*.II: I J.:192:,5h&d u.rIya.=ay.
HIE C0131: mu you be quiet, Hr. ~-
I-53. IICI1='£-3&A1: I Laughed. It wa.snt Jerry, it was ac.
TEE COUR21: Did you get that, 3-Eiaa Reporter?
151, }i?FLiA1I: At that rulimg. I l:m.[;hec1-
HR, K!JII.'J'ILTR:
121., SCHUI.'12:.
RR, KIJIISTIJZB:
HR. scmmrz:
EB. iii>F'FI-iii?!
_ wr-, 15.581!
v - '92Tint was not Hr. Dcuingazr.
Your Honor, that was Mr. Herman.
Your Homr --
$2
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mat was I-£1. Bcllirger.
mt was the defendant Kaif92-mu speaking
was nan.
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XVII.
On January 21st, the d.c£cm1n.nts were conéuctim a conference
with one of their :rt.o11 "numbers" at the dcfcncc table, while
Hr. Foran '.:n:: ui:-f.cnptil'L_', to speak. Tno conference was loud cnougjn
to cause tho i'.ol1o.:@ rlistm-boncc:
"HIE I-MRSEIAL: Excuse me, Hr. Poran.
dill you Emu: your seat at the table, please.
HR. He;-Q or5:92..nicir=.g 1;-be rloi@oe.
THE I-ihRSH.'92L: Toke your neat. How, come on.
HR. !£C£"E':-i:".1'I: She's on the staff.
I593 w*.R.1.IAL: Mr. Kunstlar, talking is not -- 1'1: asking
him B0 take his seat.
MR. 1£1Iii.2T1£.. ..: I 6.0n' know what he was doing. 1-Io com
he was talking to his wife.
3&1. IZOI-Ti-1-'92.II:. We cm talkin,-1r, in n. lo: voice. Ilc didn't
even hear.
'i'llZE COLIRT: Baa dc£'cnd:mt'a plncc at, the trial is at the
4!n'1cnd:mtn' talale.
]-21. II0.PFR-t-GI: He wore 1;-nlking -..
' A mmwrmz mt. our staff .-.11. at the mm, c-venrthing
Vbvl be nii a-ignt..
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HR. KIJ';'.IS'J!Ll'{92
nuictlv 92-.-11:.h hi" w-ire who in put of our std? '1'-""'-v ''* "-"Q :
THE COURT: I know. I knm: what he-'0 doing. I require --
the rule of this court
dc1c1:d.2n$3' table-
Mfi. H01?'IZ-fJ~.II: 110;!
Q £1113 C0131: I cm-3.
table.
MR. LO3-'1-M/.11: OE.
you go out and taz to
1;o,;et-hcr-
I don't see how we can prr.-pare the defense. We ha-W
to sit here seven days
T1-., 16,791-92!is that the dcfcmlanta sit at the
<10 we orgzmim the trial!
1- Hr. Iloffman to sit at the :11:-Icni1nt::'
We can just twi fro: lmre. E-ii-U don
Paul I-Imssner and get the dcforme
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24Your Honor, he was sitting, Just talking
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On Janna:-_y 23, 92-mile Hr. Fomn earl Mr. Dc-llinger were engaged
in o colloquy, 1-Kr. 1ioiQ'san inserted the following ream-ks:
"Mil. F03.-ii: Your Honor, in the hmcrie.-m ::y::-ten there
is a proper way to raise such issues and to correct thcm.
I-E1. DBLLJIEILI: That was the proper way with Fred
Hampton, 92rns'n't it?
-...- ---gm 1".-H»;-1 Lop I-'l92ou--1|.-nAnn.z92cn ' ' I-51 _" ' I; ywu-r L|.U1l.U.L', v; uu.=p1.u',_A-l»" an currcu
aim! goverrzncnte.1 :.-_=,'r.=tc::|, and there is a proper veg. to do
that. '
IE1. I!0F'.F7-1'81: Correction the was you handled the war in
Vict Ham, the some proper --
Tr. 17,376!
Shortly thereafter during the same incident a discussion ensued
concerning the propriety of Hr. Ku.nst1cr's -press conferences. I-tr.
again intcrjcctcrl his ccraentz. It's reported as 1oJ.1ow.'::
. HE COURT: Yes, there is a law against a. lawyer