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_.X/1:15; JCJILJ L-. LZHIS, ET AL
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ngfi_92 INTERVIEF TJITEZ é The following vesti ation was conducted by4 : Special Agent ' Rd - - Tl_|4r92r92-i :: nn Q1-n-92,+r31v|-1'92e->14 "- . -I | -l.-k-&_L1JkJJ.~J kill LJC}.»VU.l|LLJ§§J. LID, ~92_ IIIIIIIII
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his resid-fr %w"'d;;§§%i _-- 5prin3field, Illinois, Agents
intervieWn:1.=.n,i and he advised he never has been arrested in
his life.
It
diificult
the same.
not writewas noted that he is not an intelligent person and
in understanding questions and he stuttered when
It is felt that he would make a very poor witness.
his name so siuneo "X" on his statement and on all pages.he had great
he answered
He could
Agents obtained the following statement from him:
"a : 5- ..
l¬'.LCl., ll-.LI
Sept. 8, 1943
W,e_o J _ W _ i_;___%< q, "I 37- - e*"e tha £0-'-lowlng statement 1?
3 QI_§;[ §;. who are known to me to be Special Agents of the F.B.I.
No threats or promises whatever have been made me to procure this statement.
"I am presently employed at Panther Creek Mine #5. I have been there
abiut 3 month. I quite Mine "B" after being there about lb or 18 ears.
T wqc hnv-v_|_ "Ll-L! L/92JJ-|> - T Hana IWQTIQ I'1|"|.QY| T 1-15 '1'-92.-921'+ -m,, urn-I:-c cam; vv cu .|. :2 uuiuu us A-_,i,.H.._,,_.;;, I . H U r s. . I '5 --1'-1:.-.~;,,,_ ;:'s- -'1 . . - i -y anoiaveen a citizen for am-m_!;~ears now, I first Joined a mlneiizears ago. I have nev been a union officer. There was"
never any rouo e at mine B prior to 1932 the union always got along with
the Co. I
union. Ijoined the Progressives at mine B in i932 because everyone else
did. From 1932 to l937 ever; thin; was all right between the Co. and the
_ F ¢ . f " ' ' likeing
the E.H.A.
as essments and
handled.e men were alwa"s
I never saw any U.HfT. men picket mine B or distribute anyustmnever :93? Elshof or Falsetti say anything about nOt
men and officials and the P.M;A. local was run by all
I only attended few meetings durinv 'the men.
There were not many special
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1=u~:= JOHN L. LE'..IS, ET AL LP! ¢_,
1-'70
IIETEHVIB. JITE 3 then 1 heard the mine was closed I still do
continued! not know what the trouble was. I heard
nothing about the wage question or expelling
nen. I did not see any cars loaded short and knew nothing about it. I do
not rcnenoor si;nin; ary,petition for either P.H.A. or U.N.W. the Summer
the nine shut down. I heard nothing anout the U.H.T. f0PiQ 8 10051 in
Springfield in the Sumner of 1332.
"I was at Kine "B" about a month after the sit dovn strike started.
I mas Sick during the first tart, While I was there there were no fights
or other trouble. I was there of my own will. We were there to Prtect
our jobs. I was there the night the Marshall cane out, nothing happened
except we all went home. Kc were afreidpnien-they sent us home that some
one else night get our jobs.
"I never went beck in Dee l9}? and know nothing about it.
"I voted at the Armory at the first N.L.R.F. el8CtiOn- I Votbd £0?
P.[.A. b-cause that was the wa; I wanted it, no one forced me to vote. I
wont down to the Armory straight from home.
"I dont renember anything araut the attempt to open the mine in
Jan. 1533.
I kne nothing aaout any mine B men working at the Jefierson mine
while nine D was shut down.
"I got a rcéistered letter when the nine opened but I was sick andcotld 1-lot go back. cane out and saw I was sick. I tent backin shout a month. I on o work in bo;;~be-fort». I had worked in box
1y tools are still in there. I ranted to get than but Falsetti would not
let In-2 got mom. 1 was tallied to in the ;.ine to join About
2O mun came to sea me in a da§ they Wu o all new men. I would see about
1; or 20 men who WCP: new cvcrj day. Hooody ever cane to my home to ask
me to join the U.K.T, but the new men-would ask me to join at the mine
and told me if I did not I Mould loose my job. I joined the U.I. . be-
cause I was scared and not oi t@'own IrmC will. The new men who were put
on did no work but wont all over the }laoe trying to get men to join.
"I don't knot whether or not I signed any cards for U.H.T. or P.H.A.
in the summer of 1940. After the last N.L.R.B. election all of the new men
left the nine.
"I don't know why now but I do know I just voted in one N.L.R.B.
election. There w re some falls in the mine but I haze no idea how great
the damage was. I know nothing about Jack Glascow,
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RE: JOHN L. LE.IS, ET AL . 19,? Q
I1ITEP.VKE'. ';.IZ ;{ "I have had £.;_:_*;-rtq read the foregoing
contlnued! statement o1 6 pages 0 no as I have trouble
reading the english languawe To the
92est of my rccollactioy it is all true and correct. I am therefore slgnlwe -
it of my own free will."
gr .- _B
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~ ial Agt. F.B.I. Nilw.!-0
Sprin¢fju1d, Ill.
Sept. S, 1943"
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Ra. Join: L. I.F.WTS, ET AL. bf! C
19? D
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92 by Special agent- i|llilllll 1 lsrm - ' i '.,9292> I a:;<' He was bort and is a naturalized
citizen o the United States It is no believe e will make a good
vitness due to his inability to speak English very Well and his a;e. ~cted as interpreter during the interview. hasA 1o? own Crlh n-l record. He submitted the following signed sta emen ,
"Springfield, Ill.
September 6, 1943
"1,'*t§ 4§e§%Qt§§a§< Esp" f Q _ make the follow-
ing voluntrdy I A -
who are Special agents of the? -o- § i eau o nves igation. 0
threats or promises have been made to get me to make a statement.
"I was boar I came to U.S. inand am _-. _ .__-_ i ed citizen of U.S. having received my citizen-. K T V
"I first joined U-M.[. when I first started in the mines soon
after I cane to U.S.
"I began working at »ii1.e '3' a:!o=,;1 Q I joined 11,1-_{,.~}., in
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Re: JOHN L. LL»-is, 3'1 AL. 147
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;T_ V1jg .ITH "I remember I picketed at line B in the fall
of 1937. All the pickets were from Eiine '3' only.
";L_nUQd, I never stayed at the rine picketing very long at a
time and was there at the time the injunction was served on us.
"1 voted 171 the election in 193'? conducted by II.L.R.3. and it
was fair P sqware es far as I could see. I recall the P.hI.£.. won it by
a large majority.
"about a year after the strike I got a job on W.P.A. I Worked at
this until the mine was opened with U.K.U, and P.M.A. workers.A'the time
the nine opened I was a member of P.t~I,.., but changed to U.I.'.. a few months
aftenvard when I saw that the majority were changing and I saw also that I
could hold my job. "*-
"I voted in the second iI.L.R.B. election in 194,1 and it was a
fair election.
"I have had this 3 page statement read to me and
it 15 true 3nd correct to the best of my knowledge, ' '
/S/'
"iitnessed:
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S - -"ere, F- B-1-
_a-, ' ~- -*5 Special gent, F.B.I.*
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fl Re: JOHN L. Lewis, ET AL épi "> Q bio
92
92
* INTEHVIET 1] H ~at the
[L 9 by. ash September 7, 1943.' L1 his life- He is the ggner of ss and it was noted that he is
an intellifent persons/if his testimony is needed, it is felt that he would
make a good witness.
furnished the following signed statement:and
Sept. 7, 1943.
"I give this free and voluntary statement to
__ who are known to me to be Special Agents
threa s or 3 s have been made me to give this statement.
became
Before
I started
or so_ guess. ff Q U.M.W. got O.K.but
there were prefe s given to certain cases when they came up. I recall
that some U.M.W. men got fired before 1932. In 1932 I wanted to change over
to P.H.A. but did not take any active interest or part in going over.
Elshoff § P.U.A. got along fine when they first started in 1932. I was a
timber & worked from 4:30 P.H. to 1 A.M. so I didn't come in contact
with men at_the mine & did not know what was going on all the time. I don't
recall of Elshoff comlaining about P.I.A. or wanting U.H. . P.H.A. men
were satisfied with the nay she F..A. officials ran the union and it was run
by the men and not by the officers. I did not attend many meetings for P.M.A.
as I was working nights. In regard to the P.HLA. men going to jail for the
hombing_the men felt they were framed § I do myself. When we were under
U.K.Y. they would frame men to gain their point if necessary"§ I recall
of A men being fired § this was before 1932. As far as I know P.M.A.
officers handled the money alright Q I dont recall any unusual number of
special assessments. I never sew U.I.?. picket Mine B or give out literature
before the Mine B closed. But there were about 8 or 10 men who were P.M.A.
but they tried to get the P.H.A. men to go back H; w_M.Q _ e never contactedme as I was on night shift. Some of them were 'ndy
Schrelevious; Pasquale; Pete Carter; FrankAastinf ih F"wa* i*¢.- one; Tony
John Sirtout- Geo. & Emory Jacaway; Chas. Bohannon and Plotchg Cotton Ananias; , _
Jim Hale. I don't recall of any parties that Elshoff gave for U.E.W. or
U.M.W. for Elshoff. In spring of 1937 when our contract ran out our P.HJ?.-
officials told us they had a temporary agreement_§ that it was retroactive I was bcrr & came to U. 5. it
a citi thru
,4 .1-'92. /"
at Mine
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Re: JOHN 1,. LEWIS, ET AL
IN VIE ? TJITH Q told us. Laterl heard the Company said something abou 1 §: said there wasn't any agreement but I never
continue read the contract. we sure felt that PEA could get as
good a contract as U.M{W. could get. I don't recall any
trouble over the wage issue. Some of the men mentioned above said around$3* Y that the men would not get their back pay. I heard it from them too but
+ + ia '+ 11 nf m waoement " ' 2+ ».'.' ' 'I can U recall Just who it was thee UO+v me. I can 4 reca__ -_ man_,=m_
saying anything just before strike about wages. I did not attend meeting
nijht before mine closed. Some of the boys told me on 5-12-37 that mine
was closed & that I shouldn't go to work on my night shift. I can't recall
why strihe was called § 2 da s later I went to work at Eine A tillApr. 1939 in then I went into business. I recall signing a
oetition for PNLA & no one force me do sign it. I dont recall of signing
s then. I don't recall any other petitionof U.H.F. forming a new local. I
never went to Mine B after it closed down & I quit as a P.H.A. at Mine A.
I voted at N.I.R.B. election & rent down from my home. It was by secret
ballot. I saw a few men near_the Annory giving out papers but I didn't
take anv. It was an honest election & I voted for P.K.a. I never attended
the situdown strikes in 1937 as I was at Zine A and I don't know what
happened as I left in Hay, 1937 at Mine B.
"I have read this Apage statement and it is true & correct to the
Best of my recollection Q I have signed it of my own free will.
Witnesses:
2".»cimal gent _, F . B . I.
St Paul Bnn.
Ig%!!!!!!!%!!!!l!HELI- lr
Springfield, Ill.
Sept. 7, 1943"
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ATIOK "OFCERIING UMW LABOR SPIES
OPERATING IN THE TU?IF? S?RING OF 1957
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RE: JOHN L. Lens, so AL-
l:>?_7¢__,
J%11LE@_F;D U -ii '.1l{__55_1iI§S:*£ MINE B
A review of the file indicates that the following named
individuals were expelled from Local if-'54 of the Progressive Mine
Yorkers of rutnerica either before or soon afterwiay 12, 193'? for
allegedly being U.M.. spies:
JOHN comron! memes
JOHN SIRTOUT
seems Jeosrar
nosey Jne-"J1-.Y
enemas Boimn-:01:
JQEES HALEJOE ALEANESE
ANDREW SCHRELEVIOUS
D JIAINIC PAS QU-a.LE
PETE QARTER
FRANK AUSTIN
TONY PLOTCH
these individuals in quick Attempt was made to interview
succession on epteber 4 and 5, 3943. iointments were arrangedby Special agents nd with these individuals i er , 19 " ' 4
HALE, Po-1J~H{ I'M 11:90
snows, ., and Jo omits
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nopointments were arranged with the following individuals for
September 5, 1945:
ANTHONY J. PLOTCH, DCZ-{INIC PASQUALE, JOSEPH ALBHJIKE,
and El-EEHY Ji~.Ca*LaY.
Mr. HaLE., Mr. AUST_IH_;V and in-_. Je_t31_7nZ_*~s:e.11_e_t1:1e eonl;;ione_s.Jseg,rgi_ng / /their"e5§¬iHtnents, although at the time that each appointment was
made each individual seemed cooperative end willing to come to the '
Springfield Field Office. Mr. HALE, Mr» .hUST1lT, end Mr. J1.C1>£1'AY
were all cooperative and executed signed statements as set forth
belovn Mr. AUSTIN requested a copy of his statement at the time
of the interview, but we-s advised that this could not be furnished
to him by the Springfield Field Office.
4 .-111-. P1LSQUnLE, who resides :.'"9>P1'i11sfi@1d,Illinois, was contacted by telephone on ptember 5 43, and pro-
fessed to have forgotten the appointment, but expressed willingness
to come to the office at some other time. JJSEIPH kLBaH: »3E, who re-
sides ot was also contested on September 5 by
telephone e he was e poor working man and did not want
to get into trouble, end would not come to the office until he had
seen his attorney.
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Mr. PLOTCH whose correct name is 1=.NTHON1: J. PLOTCH, and who rc-sides e1, Springfie1d, Illinois, was contacted personally
at his resi ence Seotem r 6, 1945. He advised that on the morning of
September 4, 1945 he, with JOE nL7i1xl-ESE, and JUHII hll:-xl~II:s'E'>_. were at theoffice of the United Mine Workers talking to RAY ED1i'Ul~IDSUN. DQ-QINIC I
P.qSQU».LE was downstairs and may have ccme in laters There were sane
other men present whom PLOTCH did not 1CI1OWo ELTUTTTJSOIT called r;RTiT.T<
PITZ-GE-"~i.1,D__ nttorney, who came to the U15"! Office, end advised each of
the men that they should not make e statement to the FBI unless he
was present ct the interview, because they might incriminate themselves
Mr. PLOTCH believed that other persons were similarly advised, but did
not lcnow»
He was cooperative and willing to make any statement which his
attorney might permit¢
Arr. SKI-¬ELE,.*L"5 woe correct nu-no is hJ-II.>RE'-'Inl1IHO1lY SKIELEVICUS,and who resides c; Springfield, lllinois, was
contacted personally at "an nce on re afternoon of September 6-
He advised that on tne aftelnoon of bspterler 4, 1945 he had been approached
on the street in Springfield o3 d :.:'.n 92Th92J1¬ nu-me he did not know, but when ;
tyoewritten pieces of paper containing the address of .h.RTHUl{ FITZGEPQ-.'LD, ll
and told him that if anyone contacted him about what happened at Mine B Ito tovthshould see this attorneys Mrs SI-GiELE"vlCUS wasin and is not u citizen of the U.S- He present-
ed Alien Registration Card -1,1 41937. He advised that he had been sentenced
ll months at Vundaliu Prison Farm, Vandalia I11nos in 1957 for ihe knew to be an employee of 1-line B-, This person gave him one of several
t0 I 4. 1
activity connected with the labor troubles at Mine B»
DOJAINIC PJ1SQU.:&LE| who resides at was contacted
peISOI1L~lly ct his residence on September 6, 1943 and advised that he
would give no information unless his attorney would L1PpQL92Ie He advised
that he had gone to the attorney on his own volition; that there had been
no meeting concerning the matter of Mine B<
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ewedo - = '0_ ~»_ _ ~- - .
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' noon opeciil Ag
Jn. The first interview took pla
September 6, 1943. At that time s obviously suffering heavily
from the :ffe"ts of alcohol. The ots occurring at Hine "B" were discussed
with him S36Fh¢t' but he repeatedly expressed himself es being unable to
think and remember, and requested that the interview be continued at e later
date when he was in a better physical condition. He suggested the morning
of September .7, 1945; end e.ss92_1red that he would be at the Sprinield Field
Office at 9:00 e.m, for intepeiew. He &pp9&rBd anxious to give information
and anxious to cooperate in every way in the completion of the investigation.
He had known nothing of the present investigation.
, _ y _ , . . . _ . _ _ , . ,ihe 1nfor'n.~.r;~s~ve in this physical condition was
incoherent end v'.1uela_~s to this ini-e3,1g:.-ti-'>n. in s1;hste.nce, it was that
JCHN SCHNEIDER was L:r*'1r.'» to run the whole union, and boss everyone. He had -1 D
nothing to do with the "lfoirs oi the Union and the mine until after the strike,
essoc tion with TONY PLOTCH.
request. During
home, and afteralthough he w'1s expelled from th;A -1"1o;.. '='.92~f"'»ili
The interview was tC§I'1Tl§1r.;E5 rt this f~-"tint an » C
lo rning that Agents were present, wmited DUtLi
_ _i _ ¬* *mnnuIlmu-- _ ._ . . .- - - _- _- .- _.l"OliOWl1{#» lellure to .'.opeo.r at the bpringrield FieldOffice for his r.ppc>i:ft:r>e'-Y ?*:hg£"~* -s seen on the street by the aboveAgents. He advised thit he he i come to the office bcoausoistorney,ARTHUR Plieoeesio, ma advised hm not to m:=.iC¬ 9. statement. lrwt-.1:
fm1r1ri on the street zbout 5:1-O mm. which was during the hour: ':."hici_ he would
normally be working as :1 shot firer at Mine "B".
__ in the afternoon of September 7, "springfield, Illinois, cune to Springfield to dUffice to r:dv1§§e_th1§ her h15_§or;nd,$_y;ho___is presently employed at Nine "5' , hadtold her em; soliasnon with Guess .bUE d come to the shaft Ht Mine "A",
end were stopping former Mine "B" emp_l_o_yees and asking them if they had beeninterviewed by Fed-ertil Agents. *Nhe1'."" - 5fLid th.:1t.he had not, BOHANKON =told him not to toll them anything, e~ i e was asked whv not, to say that !
it wns on the advice of attorney ARTHUR I"IT?,GFPJ.~;D~ This was following the .
time -thathnd given r-_ statement to Agents.
|| .
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1"?" if S 1
km.
September 7- 1948 cL.-me to the Springfield ield Office tn w . 1.1.,
4 torney ut Lew. 1-rs DAY requested Special 1 e t In Cher 8 FRED-1 ~ ' e e of S eoiel Q 611$."-1&8-Ild g to T-LLLr JRD, in the pr sonc p g
furnish him with copies of the Sta-t6Il'lEI1tBe
T DnY advised that he was not I 6Fr9S¬Y1TiIlg}Lw?IB:_' 92~".::~"~92;" " I- I W. H S . . I . "* . -" " " ' ' _ but that he was rep:-osenorxig and essistmg Mr. ls.
_~ . FITZi?»'-j_.m.T.'3. httorney ut Lewg who was o:_nse1.ing IJMW miners who
were sent to him. Mrs DJ-Y expected thet he would eventui-.L1y know
the identity of most of the miners who had executed u statement to
the Bureau and would probably request comics of all signed statements
executed by miners to agents. No ossurence was given that copies
could be furnished h;'_:n, 1-Ind it w=.: suggested thut he make any re-
quests by letter»
U11 Septofj _ ' 10, 1945 5'-_O=.'iL.1_ . gin; ._"|_ Th.~.'gO FRED ]'L..LLFl1"~D
advised Attorney tolophonz tr_'.1; requests for copies of _these s :.te:_=e_nts ' go be dizzotod to the htL;or11ey Generals N
;u92E"§'Ia :§§w;ie not inLervi.e-wed and were
not present duri ; 2 *1 ; 1rvirs""; 9292_'_T.l'! Li-1:
Springfield, advised thLt
on the morning of Sop emf , 9&3 Ln L-ttor-hey, whose name he did
not know uddressed :.= group of miners av; I.'.;.ne B before work, hnd ud-
vised than nott talk to FEBIII rcpra '+e:~t»tivos when they celled-. Springfield, udvised that the utter-
ney isrél-a st they nee not talk to ugents if they dio notwant t-On Qijgigifg qppoqzm end LEE o.m_ "GUDG_E" B@=U1iCa;§R1iI, were at
the shaft and evidently Lrrunged this impromptu meetings
JOHN SIRTOUT was found to be in the United States nrmy and
unavailable for interview.
~ ~11» we » end~ ' aw. - '--=1"-= ,__.:.. -i--i-1:: - -- 1-- ~--'!-"--5. we re interviewed and executed signed statements es
set forth be low:
-385-
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.* 1 , N
o
.. .-. LE-"I15, it 5'7 c/
was interviewed at the Springfield
_92 l9£J oj; Special .'=g;;11tEQ, _ :pros resides, 92 ne was to-rn L._/'1
: 92 92
92 .
. ; SpL"1.|§.5
'*'> difiicult to confuse on cross examination, and Iii-*_.;hb be _L.-I.- ".'.O..l__C92
apt to be confused as to dates, times and sw.;ue11c~es. He claims to have
s poor education, bot appears to have an i.1~§.L___L"L§.1*_:!1C¬: at least equal to the
r] -' " ' *5 - -. '~ " ' ;;v-or-l_;;92; miner. advi thei in aidi tion to th- 1..11.orz.1at1on set
forth in his SiL_4.,'-'.J. . -,; enent, , 0" 11': * "' " of l92-Ly 12, 1937, when he
w;-..s preparing to go it work, th.:1.- told him that he would be
killed ii" he 1;==.::1t ck - . into tin- 11' -.; down in the se with
and all tit- t!?-21 _r. ;= fist into :1"
_92 1 ;1yj_n'~, "jet. to L-C 333.1. ...1'_1 E. 1 tad down ion Septt.:?1b-.1 2'7, 1:?" Rut: _ out s can of
red pepper, and ::r"."_92_" -zlvi. ' it ~-1 eyes. '--hen sigrmjri;
f le."' " "LP .;_ " '¢.the B Jed that never beeni. O_J.. ling sig Q -.1, -. .. l .
t-h1"n=3t_§'I'1E£d by :1 gun, one that "L", .-3:"-. "ere no guns h .ld on 1212:. the night of
his hŽ:.Ii2'1;._ for expulsion from ti.-2 r-Len.
"Springfield, Ill.
September 4, 1943.
" I-=-' n;-me 1, I ml:e the followin;; statment to
7 IY l :1.--;]~=_. Pp , who have identified Lhemselves
To in special .+=g<.=nts or the Feral ureau of Investigation. No
promises, threats, or considere.tio.1 of any kind has been made to me to make
this steteaaent. It is all true anc-_ aecur:.te, and I er: willing, if necessary,
to so to court, and rope".-t any pert of this statement.
"I rst wont to Nine B on October 6, 1.920: Durine ell the time thatI ham been of é-ii ne b, I have beet; -_j
" -
in the w¢s1'1 house On tO1J- i work
When I first became a miner I joined the United inc horkers. My
and brothers were all miners. They were all members of the United
mm oorkers. I al92."@.=:.ys went to the rs.--setin-_1;-s, but never anwoi'i"ieer=
In 1932 when the local at 1-zine B went to the Progressive Mine "orkers, I
was told that I would 11:.w=. to join the P1»1';.' of A if I was to keep my job -
and be able to work. I iv:-.s just married, and needed the I.1OI1C]-f badly, so
I went down and joined up with the PIIU of A. However, I hm! always been =1father
4
" Jr .
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RE: JOHN L. 1::.'1s, as at [9 '7 Q,
lD
-- _ -- " -»..-.- -,._ n}: and I-...- fa:-1-..-.... n-w92/-J. 92-....-.+1........_ ........-. rnr 10-.- 1"Y1R~- i **>' U11-1 1:'L.l.I~92.L UJIUUIIULD "UIU U11--n I;
continued! I father always said that in Union there is
should b; two unions. Iiy brothers were still in the Uhn, so I stayed in strength, and I did not bcliovo that there l{
the LIT and yaid mg dues to both unions all of the time. I have never been"
out of the *IT all the time, that I have been a miner.
"Khan the PHI of 3 was formed, I did not care mush which union I
belong to, WAbLhuT I b longed to any or two tnions, just so I could work.
I want to the meetings of the Unions, of both unions all the time from 1932
to 1937. at first things wont fairly well at the PHI moctings, and then they
got to quarrallinb. they were fiQhTiD§, and quarrollin; among themselves
all the I129 at the PHI meetings, and having fi;hts. It was always fighting
as to who was goizg to have the tifine; etc. They were always complaining
with the conuny '~d causing a 1:: of t~ouhl< at the nine. I was pretty piJ
disgusted with tn: 18; the ?g.'nas ca~:;ing on, fi;?ting and all that. I was
pretty outspok n. and said qa ts often that l did not think that we ought
to hive two unionq, tv:a thong? T nas gcirg to both neotings, and was a
nomh_r of both un_o;n.
"In 1934, when there was L1 Cil law in this county, I was homo one
night when some men cane and wanttd to hide some dynamite in my house. Hy
wife did not like that, and ever since then I did not get along very well
with the Progressives who Herc active there because I udo them take the
dynanit; away.
"During the time from l?32 to
for theiig we has no charter, but
ilbrnesc Dandron Schrelcviwus, Petel __..._.__...-.. Sl9}? we had meetings at Pednan's hall
we met ragularly all the tine. Joe
Carter, went to the meetings regularly.
ir u oorgc Jacawa; and Eno Jacawa*, Ton; Fletch, Cotton gnnias, John ' t t, G - Y . ry j
and Charley Bohannon used to go quite a bit. 5omotines thorn was only 10
or 15 of us at the meetings. 5onetines there were as many as 50 there. I
used to talk to the non out at the
Some of tho men were disgustzd ThOUtmine about the situation in the unionsf
the fighting, and the chockoffs, and I
used to tell than that I thought they that they all ought to belong to
just one union, and I invited than to c5§E_to"t5e meetings at Rednanls
hall of the UEI. I used to joke about things and the unions, and once
*handod a man some cigarettes and told him to have a UHU cigarette. He prc
ferrod charges on me. I vas tried about a week before tho strike started
in 1937. Some of the other men were tried later, and we were all expelled
from tho union. I did not particularly care. I just wanted to work. I thi
that is the may most of the non at the nine wore. Host of them were willin;
to just work for Carl lshoff, without any union, because the unions were
causing so much troulbe at the mine. I do not think they were complaining
too ouch about the Progressives, they were just disgusted with all the
unions. '
- 383 -
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n;d the other
there res any
that at the 1
"On th
threatened no
told him I he
to work. he
They also rin
$0 out frequeI . F .
I G
"L. 1.r.'.'."1ts, ET AL 1,, '7 O
10 7 11>
:T:"':'.l*1on the strike st_;rt-ed, there had been a
lot of trouble, and the strike started be-
cause Elshoff and Falcetti would not fire me
men who were expelled from the Union. I do not recall that
discussion or disntisfnctiou with the wages or anything like
inc when the strike was called.
c day that the strike was celled, I went to work, and was
ng times. Falcetti tri<d to talk mc into not working but I
d worked thCT¢ for years and unless he would fire no I was going
n the strike was called, the non ran me off of the mine oropertg.
nc off the next dag atter the strike was called. I used to
ntly, and they would rin me away. I took the mules out of
the mine a iew d1,s after that and rut ttgn in the nosture. I had always
Ihad charge of the rules, bought the new ons, oni broke them in.
"In nskirg Lin to go to the meetings t Redmnn's hall I was just
acting on Lg
for expenses,
Charley oh"own. F" one ev_r told no to do that, or p¢vc no many money
or nnytniqg lwk; 192nt_ I U15 never at any meeting where
on, and Bic Closc>= "nlrrd about switching the Mine over to LLIID _ 192 . Ln. 92. .
IHII. I was never given any none; to held. I do not recall that the it? had
any petitionsJ.
out either oeforc or &;tJr the strike, any picket lines, or
cause any trouble out there.
"Once a month or so before the strike started I t.lked to Carl
Elshoff, and iskcd him which union he wanted us to have, and he told me that
he did not care just as long as they would quit bickering, and would got to
work.
"I wt? -n one conxittee or snnething when the charter was obtained
for the UH? locnl. I do not recall much shout that. I asked men to join
it, but was never given any money from the UlK'or elsewhere to pay my expenses
"In Septenber when they tried to open the mine I went out and got
four mules the dcy before and took than down into the nine. On the day that
we were supposed to 50 to work, I was there, and went down into the mine.
I was threatened, but nobody 1i5trcot:u ne. The men who were out there
irnH"d the nine prnnqr*; nCTQ all men who had worked at the nine before the
stril:..'- st Ilir ea I Knox. "Jo tried to work two days, but couldn't get to the
company property after the sit down started.
"I do not recall the exact djte it was, but I went to work at the
' and asks me i 0' 0 o "'r"- . 6
him tnét wou 0. e asked no if I knew of someone else, and I suggested
Charles Bohannon. I do not '"*.*"l.l h":'"'»' lone. it was that
92
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"C17 Cw-RE: JOHN L. AL
IIJ'I§,PJJIE'.. "..1ZIj 3 "I voted at the election at the A;-mory for
continued! '_'i_- Mine B in December 1937. I think that was
a fair election. The Federal men ran it real
fair, and would not let us telk or anything. I think that the election was
fair and wonid represent the way the nen felt at the time. I do not know
thought that nest oi then would be satisfied with . , ,-.'-" "4 ,hm:tb. mu-ieit then.
any union if they could
"I do not recall but the one time '
the time that it was closed.
tnq zning or _.
2 lot of fights Lnifu, out
organize for either union.
no uninn.
"The above statement on this pain and fqur other pages has been read
to me b * t b causi I d! not ream var; vell. Everything{.31
0
!O'!Q_,
lo/lb
to work.
I92.;
l__15 1.2?» T10 C11
. _ _ .__ _.:_, . T 92 ,_-I-A _.».r. ;1u.1_.14. _;. _; _1 ?;
i see any of then. i did no
I b _
, W »tet¢t*'§,. ~ - . i t" 1 -V " J teeny? "m - ~ - - "
w*' " n u "3 wh h we and off of t ees E1Ch he r-a o m , ic s r hese pen , is true end
accurate."
.. .-=¢;;.m=- ,~_,92;.-_ --*1. F B I
ix} -if i~---i-1/ w _5/ te.»1$@¬"1#"~-' ' > - :;
5'4" E; .-M5: '- -Q I . gq . - 92 F ' B I 'the nine tried to open during
Sire tjuru were
t try to
thin; Lhet nav ; the" would be better off with
,. a.
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RE: JOHN L. LE»IS ET AL ~é_j?
Q
l1JT1P.VIE"".; REIT?! - was interviewed at the Springfield Field
5 Of ice 011 the 1 byIi Special a H -. ;.-..= _- =, F" __ re Sides
nai . nc'was orn ai He is
92 prasontiy omplojod at
appears to bc a jiorson vrith an intolliggjcnce above that of
the average miner. Ho makes a good appearance, can expross rimsolf well,
would not ht oasily confused on cross oxamination and would make a good wit-
noss.
Izgswainformation sct forth in the following signed statement:
"Springfield,
{'1 _ _.i ____1_i_,i._ 1
D¬pL£mDuF Q,
"Y ans is %§s$$Y »£i ¢' * make the following stattment to§"f§§;§§§j§ -1* ad§s%3§}Q§§§%§§T@£i?"'. who have identified themselves
U¢'m¢.s be -pocial ngonas of tho Eadarai JJLGEU of Investigation. No
promises, thre.is, or consideration of any kind has boon made to me to have
ma give this statcncnt. I am willing, if necessary, to go to court, and
ropeat any part of this statement.
"I first wont to work at mine B in i l worked a 1' Xkle "While
there, and than wont to mino A. I came back 0 Mine B about ycars ago.
I do not rccsll cxactly when it was that I went back to Kine . I was a
member of the United Mine Iorkers of America prior to the organization of
the Progressive Mina Hookers of amtricv T was novor an Ofl1C¬F of that uninr
and did not attand tho mtotinL5 rowularl". In 1932 when the Progressive $2 u
Mine Yorkers wort bsinx or arizod, I vas a shot fircr. Because of that I
did not get out of the nine until latg, and thus did not have too much chance
Durinv the or~ggi;ation of the PHI of A, and to 30 to the Union D¬Cin5S. L 5 ,,_ q ,h",_ ,_,_the Sl,Y1£CW_92'|1iC1lC92O:71"j_nCd this formation, . Consoqucntly I L10 not know mucn a ou "t
situation, an? oi» no gare oo much about it. "hen tho local at Mine B
wont into tho PHI of A, I was willing to go with the rest of the men,
bccause I had n¢"job tharc, and I had to work. I was not too anxious about
it thouih, because I had boon a member of the UHC for years, and did not
feel that wc ought to have two miners unions. However, it did not make too
much diffaronce to me.
"Before 1932 tho local and the company got along pretty well. Aftcr
E ' was that things did not go so smoothly. It seemed to me that t1c union
always demanding something. Tho new union ran itself pretty well for the .
first few months. After that thero was discussion about tho officials, and
WOW
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RE: JGH? L. LEXIS, ET AL1:1? cs,» {Q *?_L!
" "*'IIi-the ruling in the constitution that the officials would
was shot firing, and was
plainini about things in
making the rounds before
mine was not running re-the men left,
larly, and wegu L
pay. John Schneider, who was a union official, had just got a new car, ago hack to the "face" alter their tern was up. Quite
a few men went to the meetings so far as I know, I
not too interested in the affairs.
the union. II was not com»
recall that about 1935 or 1936, I was
in the afternoon. At that time the
were Working just a few days every
new ice box, and fixed up his place, or at least, so I heard. I was mak-
thc men talking aboat it, and some OI the men asked
_ . __'92__..J_ J4. I. .-,....,-."| ._ .._r' .-1.-..-. 1-+1-. &,.k....-,-2.1m-I1; duuui, it. n 92_uu1J.u. UJ. u.:._y:m iclbpl , H-LIHLIE-H-I-£-IJlll"_imgmibmsamlwm
me if I had heard anythi
con; tn no and said he had heard that
prefer charges against me. He die, and they fined and that he was gain; to
me $15, which was quite a bit consiee
I did not appeal because
appeal board sat. They
I was disatisfied with *
f0rth.~ ThEt_EZ:T Q cUHL
continued to work at tn,
men would ask me that I
that I did not think the
miners. Several men asked mo about i
E rly in thp spring of 1937, there weI was unable
told we that
he way the u
dissrrsion
n_n;. A" I
41. __ L; _ . JLILOL DEL. mi: F'l_'LI R35 talking about him at the mine,
ring the amount of work we were getting.
to get to "ilfcsgie, Ill. where the
there was nothing I could do about it.
nicn ran to prevent a hearing and so
between Schneider and sgself, but I
nan waking my rounds there often times
t thprc ought
and the men were talking about unions
had hcldped
preferred a3ninst me qui
I did not talk about it
more fines. I was not r
Yorkers for talking anon
men who were dismissed 5
union. I tried to stay
ever" day.to get his nine
te a v 'hills
at a 1 hccauPC1381" 5 ,.'.92__. _.... _..., _.._..1 -r ..,._,.._'92w__ 4._-1.1 4.92..__tn . U1i__.LY].i;92, d.I1Ll J. Ll.392.J.n.;.a..l_y DU-L-1 M11681
to be t"o labor organizations for
L, and I men ioned it to several men.
s some discussion about the contract
more than usual. One of the men I
preferred charges on mo. Charges were
before the strike started. After that
1 , . - se I could not aiford to have any
eceiving any money or expenses from the United Mine
t these things. I did not talk to any of tne otner
rom the union because of their attitude towards the
away from such things at that time. I was still
shot firing, and thus did net ro down in the nine until about 1 oclock
I did not know that a strike was going to be called at the
mine before it was called, but nhen I ucnt out to the mine to go down on the
day of the strike it was already called, so I got n pit clothes, and went
on home. I do not know what the strike was about, but_I heard that it was
becasuse the company would not discharge th. men who had been dismissed from
.. . . . . 1._.! . F 92 . - nan I__.D:-Ltionsthe union. I did not go oacx to tgc nine, and die not sig y p
out there at that tine.
"I was_ _icd and ex}elled from the unioQ_sometime after the strike l
' because id not tnini-: that I dad a chance, and I did no care
too much.
139 2-»
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RE: JOHN L. LEXIS, ET AL ,
?' %- £76,,_ ..;
.0
5 '7 0
_|'NI RJT "1; "I had not been. t an; etings with Charley
,@ Bohennon, and ack Glass . before the strike.
continued! I did not know about ary organizing attempts
before then. I did not see anything that the.
company "35 doing to fever one union over the other. As for as I know there
were no ticket lines or violence of any kind at the mine before the strike.
There had been discussion about the rage rates, but I think the strike was
ovcr the uian trouble alone.
I was one of the men who helped organize the UHF local. Some men
had
done
whatt lkod to me about it before the mine wont out on strike. I had
nothing but talk with the men who rtotioned the xettnr to me about
I thought of grin; back into the ULJ. Khon the nine was closed, I did
go around and try to got men to jcir chis local. I cowtncted several men
at their home. No ox; paid my expenses. I did it in order to help get the
mine
"I d0 I'1OI- I92;';...i
back to worn. Th: crm
work. I Unt out
since there was no sho
there, with their
us_uent down that
expelled from the
the men YJL1!1tw.,CI to
anything happen.
therc too. "hen these
mine. I heard that there More some there in th
at Mine B before,
at Kine B before,
"I no not recall any other attempts .o open the nine uniil it actually
did open.
"I voted in th- el
a fair election as for as
of the day of the
pamphlet. It was
it, and they toldback into opernrion.
the_ when it Ls but I know that we were notified to come
pony sint ' ms. around to notify us to come back to
first .ay, in the nornin . to help clean up the mine,
t firing to on done. There was e big bunch of men out
buckets, evidently ready to go to work. Only aoout 15 of
ThO5u of us goin;
PHJ, and a few others.
go to work, but someone
No one bothered no. he
men cane out, theydog .
but
election a non whose name I
PHI literature. When I got
me that they would t;ke him
they did or not. The election looked fair to
NLRB men were f_vorin5 a:Q'onc union over thedo not
irside
a1ia3*.
me. I
other.k7
.L
I
ddown more the ones who had been
It looked to no as though some of
stopped thou, but I did not see
next day there was a hunch out
were the men I had seen at the
._ sit down who had not workedas fl; es I . ov, mtst of them were non who wad worked
ion of the Unions in December 1937. That was
' " know. Lhrn I wznt to vote oarlf in the morning
now handed me a
told someone about
do not know whether
o not think that the
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RE: JOHN L. LEXIS, ET AL
57¢ 5'10
INTER~i-- #-F1; I-'1'ficers we.ro being entirely honest. There was nottoo much about that. I donot know of anything
Econginuedi soecific. I know when men asked no what I thought
of the check off, I told them that they were checking
off "tgo din; much."
During the time of the strike at Kile B I worked about a year at
the Jefierson nine. I heard that they were hi;ing over there, and wont over
with Emory Jaca av, and got a job. It ras a UL? mine, I did not have too
ruck troulbe getting a job. Bretcrton was ramming the mine th n. Ho one J J
told me to come ov,r and work it. Elshoff had run the nine once before,
but I do not knot when that was.
When the mi'? raop;ned in l§?9 I went ba?k to York the first day,
helping to t;ke tnl grlos back in. There had tee 1* ob fires in the
mine during he st;-ac, t there had been CLYeFinS'QF falls. m.
of them have not b.-n cleaned ovt yet.
"I P-:1-:1. d*1.'_'i:'>5 the tine oi The 1"-.3'3_.]E_-.Tl_!1'; of the mine.
I do not recall when it was thzt dc went to work there. He was an air chock
nan. He hid not worked at the nine Yufofe the strike. There had been
h= *" w,- * vegan d » Q = w " workin as an
1 t
dsome bad air at t c nan... 1'l92.,I'! it r - <.. . as g
air check man as iar as I know, Xe 1ave_a_nan GOlD£ tat job now. His name. . '_ __ H _' _ _ - I ' if _ -is He §gt_._s _ oing that sort -oi work 1.ei"o.r;-,- _tl'1.¢-. _l__-'L_I1§ closed, and while
ans therr, and also is doing that nou_I " I' "-~ -" ~- -_- --=-~~ -* Y-~
"Khen the mine r opened, I did not go back to shot firing, but worked
on a new mule. That meant, ii CPQBT not to danger the men, that I took the
mules back off the main entries b for. the men cane in. Thus I was the
first nan in the nine each morning, and one of the last to leav:.92 I heard
that ther; was some violence U tl mine, but because I left early and came
back lat , I did not have a iance to t;1k to thq men, or see what was going
on. I did not SL6 any fights, hut I heard of them.
"I did not see any frvoritisn by the company for one union over the
other. I n;ver hearl any talk about the company deliberately keeping the
mine closed. _
"Some cf the men asked me what I ght about UHU, ar I P
them that I thoubht we all ought to get into one union. I signe two men
up with the URI, but I did not make s point of talking to men about joining
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.,-£1?-,JOHH L. LEWIS, ET AL
; Agents
born at
by inter
I_l_'~r.- ._-_.. _ _,U I.iL1.I.1U A-:-
been known for men" *~.rs
statement to
identified tr
Bureau of Investigation. Ho
any kind has been made to no
necessary, to go to court if
I have been at Tine
- B before Elshoff started
striketherefore uneble to exp
recollection of events
cosidered to be unrel
infer etion set forth1
.
1, 1U 1
and
D
iabie, andress himself cleerli.
J and their sequence.
on the following signedll}
r'-- Le 1,"92 .~' - /1;!
d at his residence,
Springfield, Illinois, on
Special
-o dered
and is
a re poor
and necuuse of that is
11y confused. He gave
et;tement:probably ens
iiIll
943. Springfield;
Septerber 5,"I
.L
CL! 1'
and
in 195? I W
events that occurred before I-to be
ICEI an 3=:r.-'J"~.'.'n and have
the following
who have
eorel
hfbi or consideration of
statement. I &P_Til1iDE,
any pert of this statement-.LC _;-.3 _,
aehe tHi
repeatE
to enerete one Lne. At . e cine
remember the
recall whet very we . I do not
hajfened when the local at mine B joined the Progressive Kine Workers
of America. In 1957, I think, loves tried and expelled from the
FIi- of A. I was
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. for
"" 5 '1I"l:iI-"'1' 7-* ' " . . -.¢'l.;.--: - -,'=;,- -. . '=?-=- - -J-7;
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__ ....V .r._ ; Aassociating with United Mine Workers.
man "ears and one nis I"J5 5
.m "Ree
INN
.W; <
iv .. ' fi'_~ 1'~ ;':i;;'
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, »eeeeee$ir .-. _ e_ zeeeeeeee. .-.-~:¬ nu _ I - f_.,»E;. _- _ 3% _ _ ~ r_ 1* .-. M
"~ * I do not recall whether
started that that meeting was held. It was after this meetingML .W»--W.- '2; =6? 92- - _-__»!!.*_ _. i - ' 1"-. _ ~_-
"ee.". e$' .w;-j, 2.. -- -' r.~5-- -£4'~ A
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it was before or after the strike
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.-. -"F fJOHN L. LHYIS, El AL.
conto
_/no 4,70
. - - ""='.. '..'**'II- -."r-.- . - -
I do not ree]-e ~e 3r o was as org -=
strike started or not.
I was not doing ens organizing for the ULW
before the strike started. I do not kner tent any was going on. I
know thgt theze use some difficulty shout a oortract, and remember
saying o few tiies to the non that they did not hsve any idea how nuoh
nonoy they were making, because there was no contract. I do not recall I
whet the strike started over. I was wcrkin g on toy that day, and when
I cone to "uork John Ewfeneider told no that I was not goiig to go to
fork. I told hin I vet. I ran the switrn engine on toy that day,boo-a.us92: ~.e.'1-no usually ran it was not working then: Sohneider
did not e , hrcwten me that day. Ht had many ti cs oefore, and
several tines hod told re that he was going to throw me down the shaft.
kc P! vied, the men were sealing up very smell oars.
cugh eul coding up to keep me working, and so I hadThe day the stri
There was not on
gone hone before
I ent back to t
every passing or
At the
Progressive Zine
the Qon were run
local were being
I did not care I
If I had not be:
PIT? of A. I did
to me. I do not
the local.the s nczunlly sans :1, I do not reecll Whether1
he lino to work The next day or not. I 30 not recall
signing any petition for either union.
time of the strike, I hd bcon expelled from the -
Workers. There had been some dissonsion about tho way
ing tho local then, and the way the finances of the
operated. Until I was expelled from tho PZIW of A,
uch'which union I belonged to, es long as I could work.
n expelled, I would just as soon have stayed in tho
not attend the no;tings» I did not make nuch difference
knmv hos the rest of the men so the nine felt about
R
After I Wes expelled from the PHI, nsturnlly I had to be
with the UIF if I was going to work at ell; I had always thought that
we ought to hove only one union, and not have two unions, but I did
not care particularly which union it was.
Before the strike I had done no organizing, end had received
no money from the UZW for working or expenses. I did not know then that
en"ono else hed been doi g any agitating or organising at the nine, U I
and did not know that they had been expelled. I hed never heard anyone
complain about the unions there»
After the strike, I went down to my folks place, and cenpod
on the river. I did e little organizing then. That is, I took
BEE cords around to men I knew and asked them about joining the UJW.
I got some money for doing this. I do not know whose money it was,
- 396 -
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JOhl~? L. Ls-Tls, ET AL 57$
INTERVIEH RITH
ontinued1 7pbut _gave it to me. I used it mostlj
for my personal affairs, and I guess knew
this. I went out with the cards severe imes,usually with 3 I do not recallhow many times I we w1tr.P I do not
recall how many times I ot any money from was every new and
-2 1' -J -L LL.___ ._,"._.._. 1* _____1__a n..__ ..___1 1__ .......1.1 _. __ __ . .-.., on; .1 ....-.uuen 92~'CIlC'Il A IlE'§C1¬»'Q bUIJiU| HIIU IIU WUL-lJ.L. ELVB IIIU -.!.l.U U1 §LvJq J. UJ.U HUD
have anything to do
I stayed down there
I did not even come
open the mine.
While the
property, I was not
could see where thewith organizing or forming the UMP»? local at mine B.
camping and did not come back until the mine reopened.
back to go to work on the day that they tried to
stri_e was on, and the PH? men were on the company
out there, but I did drive by several times. I
PLIN men had had a machine gun set up there and
hirian in +1-»Q +'v~c:.no cum-I T Irv-aw 1u'm:n-n -I-.1-1Q -nu:-n 1Ifc:1"n 11%:-I-inn w'i+.'|'1 nrlmn..-.»...c.92.-.. A-LA or.-_; 92..Au92.|D, --4» .1. 1...... YFAl-5|92-I vanu Lll.iJJ.d. --vs... H.-......._..5 .-.-v..- vv-.-U
guns, but I did not see any machine gun, or any guns out there.
I do not recall whether I voted in the election at the Armory
in December 1937. I voted there once, and I think I voted there twice.
I arn not sure. I do not think that the election was fair, because the
PHI-' men were the clerks, and counting the votes and all around there,
so they naturally would win.
When the mine reopened in i959 I went back to work, and started
5. , here had not been any big fires, or falls out
I ' " .a f we lo e that I know of. I ere during e 1___e th t the 1"11I16 s c s d,
do not know what was going on at the mine in the way of organizing.
It was an open shop mine then. I did not do any organizing after the
mine reopened. I do not know of any organizing that "mas going on or
the company property. I do not think that the company preferred any
union over the other. I am still not interested in the unions, and do
not crlre which unioon I belong to as long as I can work, and as long
as there is on1;7_<§1_e"-union, and not all of that trouble going on.
I was threatened many times by men of the PHI, mostly
John Schneider, but Ives never actually molested or injured in any
way, I -.*-res knocked out and was unconscious for three weeks about two
and c. half years ago, I do not know what hfppened, but I think I was
hit. I do not know who did it. I was also injured in the mine when a
big piece of con], was laid up against a door that I had just come
through, and it caught the mule and I got some ribs broken. I do not know
Ydho either.
I saw a few fights on the mine property, but I do not know why
or hat they were fighting about. I did not r-:69 anyone got beaten up
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Jemt L. Lees, W AL. w F; 5/
I/'9
out there on the mine property. I think it was
after the second election that I was J_m't, but
Pan not sure when it was. I Bm not sure of any
of the dates.
T I. . 2 ._ __'l'1 _ __ .f92_.._-___'J.:... -5 Y7l_'l-_J__l__' _._ J_L_ _i._-....-.- I;-92-gJ. QC I101; TGC-'_..LJ. any lU.VOIl"LlSI1'1 01 Ii.iJ.C¬'l§Cl U1" DILU CLX!1p!'.:.L},.y LUZ
one union Over the othe . I do not recall any meetings of the UEW.
1 went to 8. few meeting? at Red;m&n's hall for the Um. 1 think that
all of them were after I was expelled from the PNF. I was not at an
meetings with Jeck Glascow or saw him before the time I was expelled
from the PNTJ. !'=
"I have read the above statement on this page and four other
pages. It is all true and accurate.
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JOPN L E"I I1. L! V C/I. - L ET: S T AL .2 D /7 D
_ 1.v1}g" wTH , -who resides atpggféi .-_~I, -_ e Spring ield, Illinois was in ervie
" on two oiiierent occasions. The iirst interview
was started at his residence on the afternoon of Friday ,$eotember 3
we ' ' -n;¢ve#*awsh?%?iJs%t?san§n¬wrnm£vF?% A .1 P§§r ? »ql?°°ntln ed b3a;?ses~e£¢o#t ?*it*e»es*er* s;a£%a§ "¢5:> n' The in arviewewa -" t rue an e sign -" - -- t
on aine at t.2 corinefield Field Office. Interviewo were conducted
rcuki make a goon W: ness. He -s a ai appearance,can express
imse I adequately, althnggh his voice is rather weak. He appearsr+earnest and sincere and would/gé easy to confuse on cross examination.
He gave information set forth in the following signed statement:
"Springfield, Ill
September 5, 1943
1;; he 1 _i _ _ Ilmake the following
have
identified themse res to me to be .pec a *gents o e Federal Bureau
of Investigation. No promises, threats, or consideration of any kind
has been made to me to make this statement. I am willing, if necessary
to go to court and repeat any part of this statement.
"I have worked at mine B since - I have been a driver
most of the time during this period, I was a member oi the
Kine Yorkers of America prior to I932. I was never an offi
used to attend the reetings of the union quite regularly.
there was not a very large attendance at the Union meetings
Progressive Mine Torkers of America was organized. I think
organized because some of the men could not get offices inUnited
oer, but I
In those days
. In 1932 the
that it was
the UT-»-T-* . That
is the only reason that I can think of for organizing that union. Yhrn
the local at Mine B went to the PIA, I went along with them
especially care which union I belonged to, and was willing. I did not
to go into
the PI.I'{"' of a. after the PH" of A was formed, and the local was Pl-5+? the
local did not get along with the company as well as before.
always some sort of difioulty going on. The union men wer
about things, and there were many short strikes. I went to
regularly. There was always a good attendance at the meetiThere was
e complaining
the meetings
ngs. I was
satiSfiec with the vay the local and the Progressive Kine "orkers of
V America vas bein run. I rrett tell with it.
FE
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JOHN L. LEWIS, ET AL la 7 C-»~
2/21!
1~1RvE=" HTH
continued I
was sat
we at the mine were pretty tell satis-
fied with the way the union was being run. I did not hear anyone
criticize the union, even the men who were later expelled from the union.
There vas some criticism of the union because of the heavy fines the
union was putting on the men who were working over $35 a week. Other
than that I think that most of the men were satisfied, and I, personally,
would have preferred to continue in the Progressive Union as it was. _
"On the day of the strike I cane up, and went home as soon
as the stike was calleds. I had not heard that there Was going to be a
strike. I had not been at the meeting of the union the night before. I
did not know that there was one. The men were bringing out small cars
that day. I do not know why the men were loading small.
"I did not knov that there was to be a strike called, but
I heard afterwards, that the strike was called because the men would y
not work with those men who had been expelled from the union. and who lthe company xould not discharge. I was not one of the men who had been T
discharged_fron the union. I was a hember of the Frogressive Mine Eorkersx
in good standing until shortly after the mine reopened in 1939. I had
not attended any meetings at Redman's hall, or taken part in or heard
of any discussions about switching unions. There had been some discussion
at the mine about a contract; and that was what the men who were expelled
from the union had been complaining about, but that was not the reason
that the strike was called as far as I know.
"After the strike started I did not go back to the mine. I
did not sign any petitions or papers of any kind that I can recall. I
1 1 f ' B. Inwok no var .. wesepta->b<r '" and some mancane to my iomc an. to d my wife that e mine waasgoing _o gfen. I
went out to the mine the day that the mine opened with
e went out very early, long before any men shoved up s5 thaf h% §31d
have the mules all harnessed and ready to go when the nine opened. I
stayed down all that day, hauling etc. when I cane out that night all
the men had gone from around the shaft. I heard that the Progressives
- 400 -
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JOHN L. LEWIS, ET AL
INTERV ET TIT were not letting the men go to work there, so I did not go back to the mine to work. I did not go
continved! out and stay on the company property 1-hen the sit
down strike was in progress, I had a job to do
I later went on TTA. I did not vote in the
1 ' n "1. . ' ' B in December l937, and did not go e_ec ion bell the unions at mine
back to the mine or have anything to do Tith the mine until it reopened
in
Then I went back to the mine in 1939 I got the job or
working on the bottom, repairing, and Working on the machinery. I had to
go down each morning at 6 AH, and oil the machinery etc, before the men
got there to go down. So I did not see anything that happened around the
pit on the top. I did not see any fights, or any violence of any kind,
although I heard that there was some, and did help aout. on
the cage when he came down in a car, and said that beaten
up.
"Charly Bohannon vas the only one who ever asked me to join
the UH". A week or so after th¬ nine reopened in 1939 he came to me
' one day on top, and asked me what I was going to do, and which union
I was going to go vfith. I told him that I did not know and would let him
know later. That night I was talking to the fellow that I ride with,
end hevras a little disgusted with the Iii? because oi the fines they
had put on him for vorking the sixth day in a week, and because he had
not gotten the fines back:§:he expected to. He said he was going to
go Uh, and I decided that I would go with him. I did not ask any one
to join the 11115.
"I ilnev" sli htl at the mine I did not know - * hi4? J2 E Y -
who he was until later, but I saw him at the mine regularly. He was a
sort of safety men. He had not been at the mine before the strike.
There were men doing saiety York at the nine before, but the! stayed on
rhila §hE§;gi_ was working there, and are still on. Nb one Yes hired
to t"5:»' place when he left. ' nI_
"I have known Oscar Talcetti personally for nany years. I
vent out vith him many tines, and I never heard him Say anything about
rhich union he wanted us to have at the mine. I never saw anything at
the mine indictting that they had any preference.
e . I am se isfied wit e way the local is being run now. There
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JOHN L. Lewis, ET ALL7 r7 ¬Z.~ J43 ,! é!
IEEERX ET WITH is not much difference in the way the local is
being run that when it was a PM? local, except that
continued not as many men attend the meeting as bei0re-
"I have never leen_thr -tened or mistreated in any way by
either oi the wnions, i7#;gQTZ¬*?j§ = v~ was never in any
We ' * -~v ' r - e xne, en, "ne was not articularly tTOub+w wit. e. unions, o e n e ,o p
interested in the affairs of the union. He has not returned to work since
the strike. Ily sons never worked at mine B.
'
"I do not recall any literature everl being passed out at
the mine, Some of the men had been skeptical about the contract with
the company prior to the strike in 1937, and asked Falcetti about it-
He vould show the contract to them. That is the only thing that I ever
saw handed out at the mine.
"I have read the above statement on this page and four other
pages. It is all true and ascurate.
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I . <,,_.JOHN L. Ln-11$, 21" ALL Ls 7 ¢__
-w§ I"1ERVE-r-2 UT _"
, 1K 92 - Sf "a * ..+92 Q ~ - s 0
eci 1 ngeros
was borr 1:at his residence
, on timber 6,
es a good e goo T1.RE3E for vhet .
Q"¢QfhLjg! nrf eon eXpress himself welli He gave information set
forth on the IO1l0wi£g signed statements
E-
stzterent t:
identified thense 0 n o e Springfield, Ill.
September 6, 1943.
t I make he following
, wholmve
Federal Bureau
of Investigation. Lo promises, threats or consideration of any kind
has been node to me to woke this stetemenc.
any petitions, or have
I voted
was a fsir election es
rehbers
friends
told no
go, and I *:-'er1»:od at mine B for years. I rarely went to any
union meetings. I did not ccre en, hing about unions, or which union
I belonged to. In the spring of 195? I h=d trouble with my eyes, end
did not work for six weeks. I care book and only vorked nine days
when the strike started. I did not knew anything about the strike,
or that it was going to be celled. I do not knew whet it was over,
although I think it was because the oempeny would not fire some men.
I know these men. I had never heard them or anyone else soy anything
about switching unions, or anything against the Progressives.
After the strike started I did not go to any meetings, sign
anything to do with the mine or the union.
It in the election, end voted exactly as I wanted to vote.
The rules of the PEW
of the UTE. I did not
in both unions. After
to cone up to the union hell for Q meeting. I-did not want to
did not go. I found out about two weeks alter that I hnd been
exnelled from the union. I do not know whnt I was expelled fer, or forfer as I know.
forbid e member from associating with
pay any attention to it, beoeuso I hed
the strike started, they called me and
hon long. I did not care anything about it.
"I was nevtr abused by any nenbers of either union. I did
not gere whieh union I belonged to, I would hfve been just as satis-
fied with the PI?'when they kicked me out. After that I did not see
any reason for sticking with them, but it did not make any differene
because I did not intend to York in the mines any more.
-4Q§-Springfield,
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INTHNI ' "' "I have read the above statement on this
9. e and one other a. e.~ It is all true and'2 ¢,
407;!
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continued! accurate,
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RE: JOHN L. LEWIS, ET AL
Lil SC ELLANEOUS II-5'1" ERVIENS
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RE: JOHN L. LEWIS, ET hi. 2&7 0
11:27.9
TEE?-T - was interviewed on September 1O, 1945, con-oernin s knowlede of the Mine "B" situation. F
gent, carezl in hi eta . ;..= ;- = goo witness.
Relative to testimony 1r he is called as a witness
it should be noted the '- e a iary of all events of any consequence
happening throughout the entire period in question. He is able to refer to
this diary and refresh his recollection giving a complete picture of whathappened on each individual date. as one of those convicted in
the mine bombing case. He also was inic -o arly in the 1950's in
Christian County along with others for rioting. The case was never prose-
outed.
as been seriously injured by gun fire, presumably by
United Mine or ers on two occasions. In the fall of 1932 he was shot inthe leg by a Union Mine Tiorker by the name o Later on March
6, of 1936, he was ambushed by an unknown asslant A o s o him in the back,
permanently injuring his right arm, the bullet striking him in the sack and
traveling down the upper arm. On two occasions, once on Christmas eve in
1935, and later on in the summer his home was riddled twice by gun fire. G1
Christmas eve both he and his wife narrowly missed being hit. On the second
occasion no one was at home.
diary contained much information oi interest to this
case to vrhi ' coul not testify personally, and so is not included in the
signed statement. Such incidents and conversations with Elshofi, Falcetti,
and others as he could testify to personally are set out in the signed
statement, which is as follows:
Springfield, Illinois
September 10, 1943
"1, make the following voluntary statement to
Special Agents and of the Federal Bureau of Inves-tigation. .. . I-
"LI full name is and I reside aj »:;,_l_:.- »~ we " 4 l _j;. e Sringfield, Illinois. was born in
3 A ;; ,,.A$.,é _~ , . . .
"I have been a miner and connected in various capacities withmining organizations since At that time, I was a member 0 the UnitedMine Workers of America, and or a period oi time approximatelytyears ago
was employed at Mine B, Springfield, Illinois. At the time the reak
occurred in the United Mine Worker ranks in 1932, at which time the
-406-
..... --9 _.'.
RE: JOHN L. LEWIS, ET AL
;,-. I T H Progressive Miners of_America was formed, I was en-
§?@f' U ployed at Peabody Mine No. 59 at Springfield, Illinois,
continued Before the formation of the Prdgressives in 1932, I
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if
Nacted as a watcher, during which time the two refer-
endums were held by the United Mine Workers to determine whether or not
they would accept the contract agreed upon between the Scale Committee of
the United Mine orkers and the Scale Comittee of the Illinois Coal Oper-
ators Association. I was present at the time the ballots and vote tabu-
lations were allegedly stolen by representatives and followers of Joh L.
Lewis. In the succeeding reaction which followed, I took an active part
in the organization of the Progressive Miners of America.
One of the mines which was organized by the Progressive Miners
and which came under my jurisdiction as a Board Lember was the Mine B Coal
Company located in Springfield, Illinois, and operated by Carl H. Elshoff.
This mine was under the jurisdiction of Local No. 54, Progressiye_Hine
"workers of Jimerica and was a part of District Ho. 4,'§£pa _ The Mine B Coal Company was organized by the rnIIi§£?S§I?Eii'dF"_
932, and from that date, up until the Spring of 1937, relationships be-
tween the management, Carl H. Elshoff and the PEA, were friendly and all
grievances arising were settled in a satisfactory manner according to an
established procedure and joint contract without any interference in pro-
duction or strikes.
"The first knowledge of any trouble or controversy at Mine B was
brought to my attention in April of l937. Qn March 51, 1937, the contract
which had been signed by Elshoff and the FHA in 1935 expired. At that time
and prior, negotiations had been going on_between the Scale Committee of the
PMA and the Scale Committee of the Coal Producers Association of Illinois
in order to arrive at a satisfactory contract for all mines being operated
by the PMA. On March 31, 1937, Mine B was not a member of the Coal Producers
Association, and it was necessary to enter int §Qn§raQt_E;§ E shoff as
an indevcndent operator. On April 2, 193?, $1 "~
§§;§%§e§F§§$92 signed an agreement with Elshcff e en ing the con rac W ich
expire. on larch 31 until such time as an agreement was reached between the
Coal Producers Association and the Scale Committee of the PMA and ratified
by the members of the Progressive Miners Union in this District. This ex-
tention of contract which was signed by Mr. Elshoff carried with it the
. -407-,
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INTERVIEE LITH agreement of record adopted March 29, 1931, which
provided a reto-active wage scale if the United lineRE JOHN L LETIS, ET AL Z9? Q,
.b7,o
con!inued! Workers were granted one in Illinois. V
"n April 5, 1957, the Pit Committee of Local No. 54 came to my
office inquiring about the retro active clause in the cgntract. "This
onnnittce was wmose 0 l 1 T"4 ' §Q;§g=r7~»v*5 h TY" o - em.w = new an- H uh~- stand-
ing accoring o record made in Joint male on llarch 29.
_ _ On_a:rilmd <l937 I received a call early in the morning from
who informed me that trouble as
Mhrisen at .1na :, the company taking the stand that was contrary to the ten-
tative contract which had been si ned by Carl Elshoff. Eben I went to themine, it was reported to me that Falcetti had started an agitation
that the company would not li3= up o the retro-active agreement. I found
that the following men had been active in agitating this question: Tony
Plotch, Charles "Bowling Green" Bohannon; Dominic Pasquale; Joe Albanese,
also known as Sam Catalone; Frank Austin; George and Emery Jackaway; James
Hale; Andrew Skelevieus; John "Cotton" Ananias, Jr; John Sirtout; and
Iilliam "Pete" Carter. These men had been agitating among the men, stating
that the superintendent of the mine, Oscar Faloetti, had stated that there
was no retro-active feature in the agreement which had been signed by
Elshoff.
"The mine did not work on April 6, 1937, because at the time I
had arrived there and settled this trouble, the management stated that it
was too late for the men to go down into the mine. The Coal Company
claimed it was now almost 8:00 O'clock, claiming it we" too late for the
men to go down. I insisted that the men were ready to go to work as the
starting time was B:O0 o'clock, but they refused to put the men to Work.
"That morning, I talked personally to Tony Plotch, and he told
me that the superintendent Falcetti had told him the company did not have
any contract or agreement with the Progressives which provided for retro-
active pay, and he was not in favor of working under such conditions. I
told Plotch this was not true and that the Progressives did have a contract
which provided for retr:-active pay. '
p vb _ W fgn §pr;_ TL_l957 _a meeting of the men at Mine B was called by~. .-~ 7-" 1,.-8,, -,e,_ -, .=¢- _ ' .-' ,- "Ia .11 .; I c _-gt mj: reque st . At that time , I explained
e 3 w en new agreement was ra 1 16d, it would be retro-active to April 1,
1937, as far as any pay increase Hi concerned and instructed the men to
go on down to work and that the company would have to live up to its con-
tract. The men went on down to work. Later in the day I received a call
from the Pit Committee who stated that they had been called out of the mine
by what they thought at first to be the company, but upon answering the
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INTERVIE1 92 call, found that it consisted of Dominic Pasquale,
Andrew Skelevieus, Joe Jarvis, Tony Plotch, John Ananias,
cor inued
the said were contracts
OI
¥or thg operators. These pieces o se men,Jr., and one or two others who had not gone down into
the mine that
the Progressi
developed were United Mine Lorker opposition in our Pro ressive Or ani
zation had noth1n_ which reflected the agreement "
and it appeared that they were urpose y ry...ln . . . =1 _- . -:...,_.V :55 z : _ ~,. . , ,g 0 re of the actual situation 1n an effort to create
trouble and to cause a strike at the mine. In this matter, the company made
no effort to insist that these men go to their work. In fact, I noted that
the bosses reported to the mine this day, April 7, 1937, without their dinner
pails, which indicated to me that they did not expect to go to work.
"In view of the fact that it had been reported by these twelve spies
that Felcetti had told them that there was no retro-active feature in the
agreement signed with Elshoff, I personally talked to Falcetti, at which
time he did
there was anot deny that he had told the men this, and I told him that
retro-active clause in the agreement and that the company would
live up to it and that he, Falcetti, was not going to keep these men from
going to work on this morning, which was April 7, 1957. From the attitude
of the management and these twelve men on this morning and the previous
morning, April 6, it was more or less apparent that the company was working
with these men to strike the mine and put the Progressive Organization in
a bad light.
"On April 5, 1937, the Joint Scale Committee? arrived at an agree-
ment that any wage increases will date from April lLAl937.__Qn A.ri1 9, 1937,
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_ in.;;__=.:_g ;;; j".-» ~';_,;; =.-; - _ I»'§5.,-i "f:.. I--1*v ?****h- , wen o Nine I an! a gen W1 n s o I =i
At this time, Mas spokes-
group. No agreement was signed at this time, but th¬'matter was
advisement by blshoff and Falcetti.e secon. tentative agreement.
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-{Li92
RE: JOHN L. mes. ET 1-.1. L97 ¢/
b7z.>'
IRTERV Eipi . "Earl on the_mornin; of Ha 12 1937 I received a call as to M»_oon-l;im1_ed' out t t = ne. l en arived at e mine,iinformed me that the Committee had demanded
the discharge of five former rogressives who had b
their activity on behalf of the United Mine Iorkers
of these men were Frank Austin; L.L. Pete Carter,
Dominic Pasquale, Joe nlbanese, alias Sam Uatalone.
both Elshoff and Falcetti, but the company declined
evidence. They refused to stop these five men from
to write up joint evidence, I asked him if we couldeen expelled because of
from the FHA. The names
Andrew Skelevieus;
I took the case up with
to write up joint
working. Lhen he refused
refer this dispute, him
to select a man and I to selector someone else that -may
select. Elshoff did agree to as r about referring the;-Q At
about this time, Falcetti was called out; he came back a few minutes later
and stated that it had been reported that the cars were coming up not loaded
or loaded short. Elshoff argued that he could not discharge these men be-
cause he would be liable under the aggoner Act. That was the position he
was taking. However, he agreed to get his lawyer's version of the situation.
At my insistence, he called his lawyer at that time, whom he arranged to see,
and agreed to meet me at 2:00 o'clock that afternoon with the Committee to
give his answer. "
"Then we left the office, and as we did so, Falcetti and Elshoff
called my attention to the fact that cars were apparently being sent up not
loaded to capacity. I suggested that he take that matter up with the Pit
Committee, in accordance with the provisions of the
PMA and the Company. "joint contract between
"At approximately 2:15 that adterfoon I returned to E1shoff'soffice with the Pit Committee and H, E1..'|f1Off refused to do
anything at 9.11 with regard to hmHinE' He am say, "Put this
mine in normal operation. Them cars are not being loaded properly." I told
him that I came out here to get his answer regarding the case before us and
that's what I was here for. He refused to do anything. at this point,
negotiations broke off, and I notified the engineer and the chedk wayman that
the company had refused to handle case in accordance with the contract. Eben
the men were notified of his action, the work ceased, and the men came out
IiA meeting of Local Ho. 54 was held on the night of Hay 12, 1937,
at which'time, I told the members that the five men who had been expelled had
a right to appeal and that if it were proved that they were innocent, Local
No. 54 was responsible and these five men would be paid.
"I further recall with respect to my negotiations with Elshoff on
that morning with resgect to his liability under the haggoner Labor Act that
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INTERVIEH DI H these men had a right of appeal and that if it were
found that they had been wrongfully discharged, the
continue Progressive Organization would underwrite any ex-
pense that Elshoff might' have had to stand by stopping
the men from working at our request. He refused to consider this offer
and refused to discharge the men.
llAfter May l2, 1957, for a period of about three weeks, there was
picketing at Mine B by the Progressive Organization. There was no violence,
and it was during this time that a petition was circulated among the mem-
bers of the
stated that
Frogressive
Local UnionProgressive Organization in which over 400 signed and which
they desired, as employees of Mine B, to be represented by the
Mine Workers of America as Collective Bargaining Agency for
No. 54. This petition was one of the three originals which
were made at that time, inasmuch as when the men signed the petition, they
signed three copies, one of which was presented to Elshoff, another to be
retained with me as District Board Kcmber, and the third furnished to the
D t ' t P 'd* t U ' ' h t ' S e ' t d t 15 ric resi -on pon receipt of t e pe ition, up-r1n en en
Falcetti, who was presen , oo ed at each pa e of si_natures, Carl ElshoffaCkI10Wl£.dgCd the list of names and Eat-5 receipt typed
out on letterhead of Mine B Coal Company, signs. ;y' ar Elshoff, President.
This letter acknowledged the receipt of the petition, but refused to
acknowledge
stated thatthe authenticity of the signatures. at this time, Carl Elshoff
he had seen some cards which had been signed by United Mine
orkers. However, he would not state as to who they were or how many they
had seen or show anything to that effect. On almost every occasion that I
went out to the mine, I generally noted that at least a few of the twelve
men who had been expelled from Local Union No. 54 were hanging around the
mine.
"on August 6, 195?, I went to Mine B wit-h '.'-_::,55! "
and two others to present a tentative contract to Elshoff for his signs nro.
Elshoff did not sign this contract or indicate in any way that he would.
He stated that if he decided to sign the contract that he would get in touch
with me.
ugh August 14, 1937, I telephoned Elshoff, making an appointment
with him. I oroceeded to the mine_wif tgpgn . and the Pit Committee,
exoe t.§$§?é&%aa at which t'r=-réihlz 5 '. ' . p 1-, N Temanlel the return of the
petition w 10 we hpd previously given to lshoff on July 12, l957._ This
was done in view of the fact that Elshoff had not acted upon the receipt
of the petition in recognizing the Progressives as the Bargaining Agent with
employees of that mine. I asked Elshoff about signing a contract at that
time, and Elshoff stated that he was "up in the air. You have asked for the
petition back." In the course of further discussion, Elshoff said, 1Then
I sign a contract, it will be with a Union. I started in 1912 and have
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"b 71>IN?E§¥iET ZITH always been in charge or connected with Union mines.
He did not say with what Union he would sign or thatcontinued! he would sign a contract with the Progressives. He
stated that he would let us know on the following Monday
whether or not he would return the petition.
"On September B 1937 I went to Chicago, Illinois, bein; dr'ven
mpanying me were rY~§-II
at Chicago, _
an proceeded to the office o l . L.
r of the Thirteenth Region, Hational
Labor Relations Board. Lhon we arrived at his office, Ray Edmundson,
Provisional President of District No. 12, United Mine horkers of émerica,
was already there. There were no terms of settlement arrived at to open
the mine. Spokesman for our group was who presented the
petitions and evidence that the employee desired to be repre-
sented by the FHA and requested that an election be held. Ray Edmundson
objected to an election, stating that the United Mine Lorkers already had a
contract with Elshoff. He claimed many names signed on cards requesting
representation by theléc e claimed E5?_names. However, upon request,
he refused to submit any evidence of these signatures, saying that when the
right time came, he would produce them. He insisted that employees of
Mine B who belonged to the UMWA would put the mine into operation.
The question also arose as to whether the men suspended from the
Progressive Organization, which at this time had reached twelve, would be
put back to work. Bajork did not commit himself at all upon this question.
Edmundson insisted that these men should be put back to work. Our spokesman
that they should not be put back to work and insisted thati1E%!!!tion be held to determine what organization would represent the em-
ployees of Kine B.
"On August 28, 1937, a contract was signed between the Scale
Comittees of the PEA and the Coal Producers Association of Illinois. This
contract was formally ratified and state-wide referendum as of September
10, 1957, by the Progressive Locals. On $eptember 10, 1943, a new petition
was signed by members of Local No. 54 at the office of the FHA as they came
in to vote on the referendum.
"On September 17, 1957, I s Uji '~ to locate Elshoff at his officeabout a new contract. I talked to who advised that Elshoff
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V: .'I."*3, _ 6
RE: JOHN L. LERTIS, ET AL
'b7C_./ 19,20
' H and he suggested that everyone be allowed to WOTK it
the mine, suspended members and all, until the National
' Labor Pelations Beard decision ¬as completed-
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"On September 22, 1957 was able to locate Elshoff at Mine B,and upon instructions from arranged for I1
meeting on the following day at the --as = inco n iotel.
_ 1957, 1, with
1? ¥f sin Qh§Q§; met with Elsho an- a co '
at e Abraham inco the spokesman for our organ-
ization, and at that time, he repea the offer that I had pre=
viously made to Mr. Elshoff in that if the Labor Board recomended that
the men who were expelled from Local No. 54, PEA, should be put back to
work that the Progressive Organization would underwrite any expense in
which Elshoff might be involved as a result. me insisted that all the Pro-
gressives of this Local were ready to go back to work, but not with the
twelve men inasmuch as under the closed shop contract with the mine, they
were not entitled to hold their jobs there if they were not members of
the Progressive Miners of America. Contracts with Eine B expressly stated
that only those who were members of the FHA were entitled to work at that
mine. No agreement was reached at this meeting.
ugn September 25, 1957, I received a call from
who advised that Dominic Pasquale, Charles Bohannon, Joe *'-anese =- run
him off of the mine property- They had approached him about joining up
with the UHHJ and said that h t e ' d M B 1 K e mus Slon in or er to work at ine .
Zilliams advised me that the blocked his entrance to the en_ine roam. I, y ,- -* ~,.g--.1-.. -. .ave the bheriff of San amen Count this information. I, gteqiknehjE, _ ,ia A E Y ..-~_ , i~.»#.Eh; ,_....92..,.r..a,_..-1 4-,. 11-: van B i.'1-cs... 'r so-.-4<,,, "=*'== """"e; .1.-.. . __.,.E.._. 5.1:. r -.. 1.11 uuuuuuu vv 1114.116 g 92-J.l.924L.l J. as I .1. vuu av n_.|.uv -, A.saw bminic pasqualé try to conceal a gun which he stuck in a box of chalk
right next to the desk of Falcetti in the mine office. Falcetti at that
time was at his desk.
"Chen we arrived at the office, Pasquale, hlbnnese, Bohannon were
in conference with Falcetti, and our appearance apparently surprised them
and Pasquale was not able to conceal his gun in time to p'event our seeing
it. A few seconds later, three or four Deputy Sheriffs arrived. I picked
the gun up and turned it over to the Deputy Sheriffs. This resulted in
a search of the others present with the exception of Falcetti, and it was
found that Joe hlbanese was carrying a long barrel .58 revolver. Both
slbanese and Pasquale were arrested at this time for carryi concealedw-tapons. I asked Falcetti if he were trying to stop from working,
and ho said, No . Falcetti did not reprimand any oi these men for carry-
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Rea JOHN L. LE..IS, ET AL2>'7c./
binINTERVI ' 1' TH "Later in the day, I was again informed that Q
had been run off his job at Mne B. This time, 1
continued supposed to hBVBcbe8n done by ,,,.¢§%, _and two others
with Charles Bohannon. I know the y%w;§a§. wahired by John L. Lewis as an investigator for the United Mine or ere.
has told me that he was employed by John L. Lewis; that when Lewis told
him to do a thing, he did it.
"In the local newspaper, we were advised that Mine B would open
on September 27, 1937, for work. I addressed a meeting of Local No. 54,
PEA, on September 26, 1957, at which time I told them all to report for work
on that morning.
"On Monday morning, September 27, 1957, I went to Mine B with about
500 men of the PMA who were reporting for work with their dinner pas. I
talked to Oscar Falcetti, who, at first, would give me no answer at all.
later he came out of the office and asked the EIIA to furnish 50 men for
work. I told him these men who were members of the FHA were insisting on
their rights under the National Labor Relations Act and are demanding pay
for any displacement of men of our organization from their jobs. 10 so-
called UMHL men went below to work, and three reported for work on top.
I told the men that day to go in individually and report to work to Falcetti<
Falcetti refused to take any of their names, and in less than a minute, left
the office. However, the men continued to report for work, consulting
or anyone who happened to be in the office. 1-Ihen Falcetti
as e. for the 50 men, he said that he was only recognizing the United Mine
"orkers.
"It was about this time that I, along with others, heard that the
UMWA was going to try to put the mine in operation with imported strike-
breakers from downstate Illinois. There was also a rumor that they would
bring some men in from Taylorville and the Midland Track, which is in
Christian County, Illinois, and in which is situated four mines operatedo ~
by the Peabody Coal Company and organized by the UMWA.
"On September 28, 1937, the men again went out to the mine to re-
port for work and demanded their jobs. On this date, no'one went down in
the mine to work. In view of the rumor that we had heard about imported
strike-breakers, the men determined to protect their jobs and simply stayed
on the company property. At no time did we consider that we were striking
against the company but at all times had informed the company that we were
ready to go back to work. The men continued-to stay at the mine until
they were enjoined from doing so by an order of the United States District
Court, 5outhern District of Illinois, on or about November 25, 1937. During
this time, no violence of any sort occurred upon the mine property, and
when the order was issued, the men complied with it.
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?*j'@ f;g;¢f, - f*l.,§@.@i»-Ki Lng at
continued! Mine B with Elshoff concerning the entire Mine B
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E, uuia Allb-UULLL5, nu: 4.04.1. U11. u yruar
was made toward putting the mine in operation and holding an election
fifteen days later to determine who would be the Bargaining Lgency for the
1; 1*" B Th tn r are <1 t o r re an election men a alné . is ma or 0 ,1 eon a s opera ion e 0
was instituted by an Attorney, §9§]'.,. for the United Mine horkers,I 1 q 1 " -I I Iand was simpiy ddaying artion as ni e- ine workers must have known
that they did not have a majority of employees at this mine. At this meet-
ing, Elshoff agreed to take our proposition regarding the election up with
the other side. However, Elshoff failed to carry out his part in connection
with holding the consent election.
"On January 4, 1938, which was the date on which the Labor Board
the entrance.__ K 92 ._ _
-N s a e. a in
had been grantee in 'edera1 Court, I
However, the
and reported
ing, "e have
the NLRB as b
later saw inothers were permitted to
to me that when they app
a UHCA contract." Afte
argaining agency I tried
the Springfield State Jocertified the frogressives as the Bargaini agen Y for_pf- § I went out- -' 2 ,~pF§M¥}?§,%,§?t§ ienfhegieitintiiéeeeifdghe5ff3U§2IfI§3@ r.7%%§¥ -
<ie$?e# j;¢T i- i" we were s o ed a " e anc en rance o e mine -
the com an bosses. -eP5%n%;¢" United States Marshal was also there atP ..:+.~ 3
accordance with the injunction which
could not go in on the mine property.
go ine These men later came back
lied for work, Falcetti answered say-
r learning that FHA had been certified by
to contact Elshoff on this date, but
urnal that Elshoff was going to close
Mine B indefinitely. I again tried to locate Elshoff on January 7, but he
was reported to be out of the city.
"On February 18, 1958, I went out to Mine B and saw
and served papers on him relative to the retro-active agreement of April ,
1937, in the absence of Blshoff and Falcetti, and told him at that time that
Progressive Hire n0? er members only were entitled to work in the mine.
accompanying me we -@:'m - h de»*%#a» ¢&Ki"iJ=@§"* .¥te'-~.. 1- 11 -re + J 2! - "i-J11. * ' ' " I"-A "3-= ex .2 -.17-.'-t. -'é -Q1; K W it <.+.a_-a .. >'; 11 i 1 I I A 1
. . 1. ,-'. .*':' §-.-"wt 1-. A ' I"; :' . -- -._ -
_1: ye: i.; aw " I Q"; , i.-». »,= H; ; 5' ~= - .- +-=.;*:- "V -=-> K-_-T 31- --'> 92."T"-?-P: --1:1? M92¥~.ua.,.__, , ,.._.,,. H .-.; I I H ,_.-,.,. %'l92"?_-|.92: em aw %+ i w'*~wmnm 4- lgqre, ";,"Pe-en;
u . . "1°f 3' 54 -"5 I---1;. f 3.5" - "-=.;-»~<>¢<>mpen1ed = .rI went to Liine B again on obruary 21, 1938, at which time a Iced
o _ t ehoff and Oscar Falcetti. I served notice on Elshoff concerning the
demands for the retro-a ctivc Sclc due the members of Local No._54 or cer-
ha,__tair eyes ,wr,c__had worked continuously at the mine, such as _ pp ' U __ oven though the mine had shut"'*" '-"I _
»1e§" 1 " 193% I~-hen Bfehe£r' received the written demand <1, "A11 s, he sai
right". I then asked him for a receipt and he said that he would have to
see his lawyer. I than asked Elshoff about signing the contract with the
PMA. He said, "The mine is shut down." I also told Elshoff I was ready at
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as= JOHN L._Ls.':Is, ET AL !9 '7 c__,
1/Lo
INTERVIET; LITH receipt to the demands for retrd-active unpaid wages? which had been presented to him. 1 told him if we could
continue not settle, we may have to resort to the Civil Courts.
He said that we had already entered a suit for the
retro-active wages.
out to Mine B to see Elshoff. s off, when they appeared, told t em to call
up before they came out to the mine. During the conversation with Elshoff,
they noted that the fan at the mine which circulates air was running at lll
speed, and six pit cars were loaded with props ready to send down. 1--hen
these facts were reported to me, I called Elshoff, who said that the power
was off and that the only juice for the lights and the fans was being supplied
He said that no work was being done in the mine.
"From then on until the expiration of my term as Board Member, I
contacted Elshoff at various times trying to work out a contract without any
results. I remember three or four times asking Elshoff how he was main-
taine_<_i_ the expense paying royalties and also the expense of opening the mine
at some future date. He would never make a definite answer. At times,
I accused him of favoring the U1-HA, which he never affirmed or denied.
"I have read this statement which consists of eighteen pages. All
information and dates appearing herein were verified by notes kept by me in
my diary, and to the best of my knowledge and recollection are true.
rs
'-vitne ssed :
Special agent, FBI.
Special Agent, FBI.
after the execution of this statement a further review ofdiary was made and it was found that on {xu U513 17» 1933; he =" do call Elshoff at his office and was informed byfggthat Elshoff was
out or the City. again saw Elshoff on I-mp em er 26, 1938, rela-tive to Qpenjng t ne an signing a contract. At that time Elshoff said
that market conditions were bad and that he did not know when he would open
the mine.
Another attempt was made to locate Elshoff on October 8, 1938,
and the last record of any conversation at all in his diary with Elhoff
was on January 13, 1959, At that tincphcned Elshoff about a
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RE: JOHN L. LEZIS, ET AL
b7@/L9,/J9
INTERVI '.'.I ! contract. He was again told that market conditions did
not warrant the opening of the mine and that in the event
continued! business conditions in the future improved, and he eon-
sidered opening the mine that he would get in touch with
Relative to the strategic importance of Mine B, é stated
that it was the largest single mine in the Springfield Area. He s ated that
the Panther Creek Mines considered collectively employed more men. He con-
sidered Mine Bess strategic point of attack by £11,171", particularly in the
Springfield District, because it was the largest single mine under one owner-
In event any background information is desired es to the struggle
ted Mine 1-orkers and Progressive "'
ve dot ai led informati on
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.92RE: JOHN L. LEIIS, ET AL Z9
INTERVIEW WITH yr
__ '.7C_/ 1_E;
671!
O, l
coopera ve t shas been engaged in the Occupati 0
vities of unionswas interviewed by Special Agents
at the Springfield Office
on f coal
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s f th G t'2
Wi I18 S 8 5'11 BS 9 OVOFDIBBII S C359 13
concerned. During the pertinent periods which are covered by this investiga-
tion, he was an active official of Local 54, PMA, and attended many of the
41-. 1.?»-S =1-. .--I-4-A-..-.4-.-. -r.-.-.-..-.-. -m,-I.-. 4-.-. _ A R A-. 4-1... -A-..-. ,...-1 4-.-.11 vI1.LJ_92.4 T."u¬¬ti'Ilg5 .1. 11 uuvcluyun Hui c: u1u.u.92: uu 1 GULJULL UJLC7 l1|.J.u|: u.uu cu it Econtract ~.~.¢1;1. CARL ELSHOFF and OSCAR FALCE1 I'I. With regard to
it should be noted that he was one of t s con ' ' . ho e victed in the mine om-ing
case during 1957, and served a two year term in a Federal institution from
the middle of 1959 until September 1940.
The statement which was executed 1:13; is as follows:
Hr*3
Special Agents
vestigetion."s
springfield, Illinois
eptember 10, 1945!
make the following voluntary statement toof the Federal Bureau of In-
921~ 3""M ncne is 8 and I reside at *4, iI1 , - xi ._ I ;;:;?.T=', ' .
Springfield, Illinois. was orn ci y, _an ever since I was U years of age have been amp eyed inc"11-a =
gsged in activity reld ed to the coal mining industry. I first went to work
for the Mine B Coal Company, Springfield, Illinois, undr: the management cf
Carl H. Elshoff in 1951. At that time and prior, I was a member of the United
Mine dorkers. However, when the Progressive Kine Workers of America formed
their union in the fall of 1932 I joined them. it that time I was a member
1-VP T.nr92|:1 Inn QA FILE {T1 Sn:-i r92rPf"in1t'1u; A-n./uu4,|, nu. WI, lllllb, 44.; L.dl.l..l.J.6-L-LLIJ.92J
the Mine B Coal Company. In the fall
local, except one man by the name of
Pro ressives " w lawn Li?
y A- -I I .5 A I " - . . l'=._S:ET§.;'. ,..' 4 -- , . " --'-u »' . .1; '14.: - !' ,,;;:;.--- .e -.-av. . .1 -I.-1 - A1 ,'-1: 1-... ..;_*.;-FT.-.. - -%§$%_,_-.,-_, . .-_, "*.5*'~"¬T'92"|in.-vie wlwinln $1014 411!-icriir-92+-inn nvnrI-.l_J.J.J..l92lJ.hI. "a&Av4c U-.92.. J-. ;u92.....--/.----.¢ v --
of 1932 the entire mebership of this
-{{' voted to c with theG Ws4#~_. , --
-
ls ~ »»< . n=~¢ve Ji=E@H$ I¢wl;"%$#i@*hiH;%A2' "
I T0 the best of my recollection the re1at' ' '_ es_L
ionships between the PMA
and the management at Mine B were good from 1932 until the Spring of 1937.
All grievances and difficulties arising were handled in accordance with
settled procedure and there were no work stopages or strikes during this per-
iod. I personally became aware of some agitation in Local N0. 54 on the pent
of ten or twelve men early in April of 1957. The contract which the PMA had
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JOHN L. LEJIS, ET AL
isles 51$
I5 Hfv & WITH with Elshoff as an independent operator expired on larch
&mg{§r' 31, 1937. Some of these men, namely, Andrew Skrelevioua,
,con,inue!, Charles "Bowling Green" Dohannon, Dominic Pasquale, Tony
Plotch, Pete Carter, Frank Austin, Joe Albanese, "Cotton"
Ananies, and perhaps a few others, were active. It was my understanding that
these men were agitating among the membership, stating that the company would
not recognize the retroactive pay features which might be subsequently ex-
ecuted in contract. I can recall that some of these men had yellow pieces
of paper which were reported to have been obtained from the office of the
company, principally from Oscar Falcetti, the Company Superintendent. These
men were representing that this paper stated that no retroactive pay would
be obtained from the copany. I definitely recall that early in April the
work of these men was so effective that they attempted to stop production at
the mine.
- "I recall that came out to the mine and explained
thet the existin contracts would provide that retroactive pay would be ineffect and aattempted to persuade the men to go back to Work. The men
were willing to go beck to work. However, the company officials, namely,
Felcetti, stated that it was too late end refused to send the men down into
the mine. This was shortly before 8 oclock; that starting time at the mine
was 8:00 e.m. I recall that throughout the entire month of April these men
continued to cause trouble, still arguing the contract question. Early in
May of 1937 I remember attending one meeting at which five men were expelled,
These men were Frank Austin, Doninic Pesquale, Pete Carter, Joe Albanese,
and Tony Fletch. To the best of my recollection this was o regular member-
ship meeting, the trials of these men-having been held sometime previously
by the trial board. This was simply a referendum to the membership of Local
54 to voice their approval of the trial board's decisions. The membership
felt that the trial committee had taken the proper action. On May 12, there
was a strike at Kine B. I worked in the mine all during that day until the
early part of the afternoon when word came down that Elsb ff hsd refused to
recognize the closed shop contract between the Company and PMA in that he re-
fused to fire the five men who had been expelled from the'Unicn. I received
more definite information on this matter when-I came up out of the mine and
talked to some of the men on top. Then for e period of approximately three
weeks there was some picketing at the mine, and during this time a petition
was circulated among the men in order to determine whether or not they wanted
to be represented by the Progressive Mine orkers.
_ nsometné in Septembe; I hgoeened to be ot the Board Qffice of thePMA when 9. c"ll was received " '0o.rd Member. from
the Sheriff of Sang-amen County and I,- with drove out tpsaying that he had been run erdthéitiopér y at Mine B by Charles ésiscn,Dominic Pasquale, Joe Albanese, and others. W£_92;::_I ;~ec"~_l called
the mine. We reached the mine just before the men irom the eriff's Office
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RE: JOHN L. Lewis, er AL !9! C,
1- '20
ITEIIV WITH arrived and as we went -in I, together wit? saw
e%;n?#4'~v ' Pasquale take e gun and try to hide it in e some
92COIlclIlu6u; g sort by Superintendent Oscar Fslcetti's desk. If I ree
member correctly, Falcetti, Bohannon, Pasquale, and A1-branese were in time room. notified the Sheriff of what Pasquale had
done end after the Sheriff oun the gun a search was made of the other oc-
cupants in the room with the possible exception of Falcetti. It was found
that Albanese was also carrying a gun, a revolver of some sort. These two
men were arrested on that date for carrying concealed weapons. I do not re-
call that Falcetti said e single word 1 the time that this was going
ta .on. It is my recoiiiction, however, the lked to Falcetti concern?
ing returning to work, and that actually did go beck on hisjob. Shortly after this in the letter part o tember, 1937, there was an
attempted opening of Mine B, I, along with the other employees of Mine B, ro-
ported for work that morning and I recall that Fe-rlcetti came out and told the
men that they would have to be United Mine Workers to work at nine B, inasmuch
as the company had e contract with the UNW of A. Felcetti gave the explana-
tion that he hsd nothing to do with the hiring of the men and that he was
simply c:rr;ing out orders. On that date onfy ten or twelve fellows went down
to work in the mine, these being the ten or twelve men who had been expelled
from Local 54. There was no violence ct the mine, elth words might
have been passed.
I also reported to work on the following day with n number of the
men from Local 54. On this date no one went down into the mine and to the
best of my recollection, the Sheriff of Sangamon County was present and re-
quested the ten or twelve men who went down the previous dey to stay in the
cabin for their own protection.
"From that day on the men simply stayed out at the mine ready to go
to work at any time the management would put them to work. It was about this
time that we received word, more or less in the form of afrumor, that the
United Mine Workers were going to try to put the mine in operation with im-
ported strike breakers, principally from the Peabody Mines down on the Midland
track in Christian County, which were ell organized by the UMW of A. This
picketing continued up until the latter part of November when a Federal in-
junction was obtained by Elshoff enjoining the men from coming on to the
property. I left the mine about the middle of Novem>er and was not present
when this injunction was servede
"I recall starting out to Mine B on the morning of January 4 1938,
at which time there was another attempted opening. I rodo out with ;However, before we reached the mine some of the men coming bee!
t5';"ts -t the mine would not be put in OQuFHtiOD, so we returned to Spring-
field.
- 420 -
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RE: JOHN L. LEXIS, ET AL /
mo _
INTERV F" In 1958 I was elec _-p of the Pit Committee,
weather and M
continued! was part of the dut es of my office o a en c l meetings
looking forward to negotiations with +1 contract with Els-
hoff in the settlement of grievances. I remember going out to the mine with
end s of the Pit Committee sometime in February, 1938, and
talking n retroactive pey for certein of the men,
narrrely, and possibly others, who had continued to workct the mine on y I later returned in the some month with Q
end the Pit Committee at this time talking to Elshofi and Felcetti. As re-call wos more or less the spokesmen for our group es this would
nature. y e is job as Board Member. Elshoff and Falcetti were approached
relative to the opening of the mine and recognition oi the contract. To the
best of my recollection, Elshoffs answer was that the mine was shut down and
there was no business so why sign e contract. .
h "In March of 1938 we received word that some work wrs going on at
the mine end that mu} s r 1, roht u out of the mine. I went out to
the mine with s=r;-%-s_. i- we s1¢>ns- As
we drove up Elso met us and asked us w Lt we were o ou there and if we
did not know thnt there was an injunction. 'We said that surely we could cue
out there on business. We went in to talk to Falcetti, stating that if there
was any work going on at the mine we were claiming it for members of Progressive
Local No. 54. I can recall seeing Frank eustin at the mine that day. Fnlcett;
told us that there wns no work going on at the mine end that these mules were
to be used by Frank Lustin, and they were simply performing thrt work as pey-
ment. There was to be no remuneration for the work they were doing outside
of the fact that they were to get to use the mules. We noted ct the time that
the fin of the mine was in operation. We went into Springfield nd reported
w w d o +~ hct ehe i"u.nd.-
"I can also recall going out to the mine at lea J couple of timesafter that with members of the Pit Committee to discuss trle opening of the
mine and signing e contract with Elshoff. The answer was always the same --
there is no business and the mine is shut down. I cannot recnll the xntdates of these conferences. My office was necessarily taken over byiiiyin the summer of 1939 during my absence, and I had nothing to do wit
e grievances and troubles arising at Mine B when it opened in the fell of
that ye-er.
' "1"ii.th respect to the Mine A situation and the switch on the pert of
employees of that mine from Progressive to UM-V of A, I can remember attending
at__Ie:iSWt one moetir" in the Pl-EA "* 5eM%t 1941. Several men, namely,
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RE: JOHN L. Lens, ET AL L; "2 c/
J:/ID?
INTERVIEW WITH floor to make various addresses: In general their argu-
ment was that if they did not join the UIHI er A, Elshoff
' continued would not open the mine. There was in fact a general
rumor that Elshoff had said that Mine A would not be in
operation under the Progressives. On that ni ht I also heard that there wasa fight on the floor of the Union and thetéwas one of those participat-
ing. The next meeting of this local was held in the Elks Club at which time
it was my understending'thet they voted to go UMN of A.
I have reed this statement which consists of seven pages, and to
the best of my knowledge it is the truth.
/iyngtq -A
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witnessed: i Mtzn
Special **e@n@ we-1»
§%%@,P' *7 pecial Agent, F.B=I~
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Re: JOHN L. LEXIS, ET ALL>'7c./
~ E *2 1;
nzrssvise JJITII Illinois,
sions to
in furnish information of interest to this investigation. His
attitude is extremely cooperative and he is willing and anxious to testify
concerning all matters within his knowledge. In spite of the feet that he is
bitter toward LEWIS, EDMUNDSON and JAMES because of their dictatorial methods
end because of his expulsion from UMW, nevertheless, he appears to have
sufficient poise and intelligence to testify in an impartial manner. It is
anticipated, of course, that an effort would be made to discredit his testimony
on the ground of bias;
».ith reference t at-ate-mznt that he went to Nine "B"
September 27 and 28 and Dec or , 1937; it is noted that he has an
automobile mileage diary which reflects his travel to Mine "B" on those dates.
This diary also reflects travel to Mine "B on January 4, 1938.
executed the following signed statement which is dated
September , , but which was actually signed by him September 9, 1943:
Springfield, Illinois
September 7, 1943
make tho f0110@lng voluntary statement to Specialp inf the Federal Bureau of Investi-
gation. I ully that 'canno be required to make or sign any
statement in connection with this matter.I11
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"T v-_-;92:~-I/'1»; PatJ. -1 ..'-ran-AL, -4-.
presently employed as
FE?" ';-31'. ;:
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1
"Fro: until November 20, 1942, I was a member of the United
inc orkers of pmerice, except from 1917 to l9l9 durin which time I1* . . .
'-"'15 1'" mile Cd as 51 mn@1'- .-.' » =%%ii- imeseisw 3w#£ bu W» ease
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I "~3.~., -'~-A-'-1., ;»,.;;='i-*!*w__¢ - .»-' =;»75 _.:=.-_;¢.'-92'££~*,=*'*- .~ ., .;-.=$'f;i._-.?.= 5 - - 1. '~ ,- =-, ¢_,*-- -V?->5-:1 .,m.='-" 11.: _-" {ti '-E= -,.-...i;;_~,- - -~'», j__ A ,9 ' -. ..; r¢,~2:'..s,.-.--I-;" ';I-3317, e _ X" " row a ime unti I-love-mer Othe nnqii. Eyes L_q_,__
92 fulfilled the duties of uistrict Board Member. The offices I hold throughout
this entire period were elective offices,15,
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Re: JOHN L. LEZTIS, ET AL E'7C/ 'E
V J WITH "As District Board Member my duties were handling grievances
that arose between the members of _the UM-sT and the manage-. . . G . . . ." ments of the different mines within the Ju!l5dlGtl0n of
the Board Member; also, internal grievances that arose from
the application of the Constitution of the United Mine Workers of America.
My duties also included organizing local unions and installing officers of
whatever local unions might be set up by the United Mine Workers of America.
"During the Spring of 1957 over a period of several months I had
several conversations concerning Mine "B", a coal mine located near
Springfield, Illinois, with RAY EDMUNDSON, who was President of District 12,
UMW. EDIU?D$UI stated during these convcrzaticns that he was very much
interested in eliminating the Progressive Tiners of America at this mine
and in bringing the miners employed there into the UHF. EDMUNDSON stated
that if the mcmbzrship of Kine "B" could be won over, the strength of the
Progressive Minors of America in the Springfield area would collapse-
EDHUYDSON commented that this was one of the largest locals the Progressives
had in the Springfield area.
"During this period of several months in the Spring of 1937,
EDVU*DSOF from time to time introduced me to various individuals at the
UH? Headquarters in Springfield. He stated these men worked at Kine "B"
but were interested in becoming members of UHF; I recall the following
persons as being among those introduced to me by EDNUNDSON during this
period: FRANK AUSTIN, PETE CARTTR, DOYIPIC PASQUALE and PASTUALE'S son,
COTTOK' ANANIAS, JATES HALE, TONY PLOTCH, ANDRE? SKRLEVICUS, EMORY
JACA'AY, GEORQE JLCAULY, and JOE ALBnNESE - also known as SAK CATALONE.
Hy conversations with these men during that period revealed that they were
attempting to induce other employees of Xinc "B" to desire affiliations with
the UHW. I do not know whether those men were being paid for their work on
behalf of UMW at that time.
I recall that my conversations with EDMUNDSON 3Ld also my O0nt5CtS
with these men, all of which I have related above, occurred prior to a
strike at Nine "B" on Hay 12, 1957. I also recall that during the several
months prior to this strike I frequently saw CARL H. ELSHOFF at UMI Head-
quarters and on numerous occasions I saw him entering or leaving RAY EDMUNDSOF@
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R8: JUH L. LEWIS, ET AL "- *1. 0 i M d, ... _ - ..- . . . . _ 92
_ -i¬7'-:1".':!'1,*-"';;<:r§_~_: _:-fj .-;,-,_ _ -- ;_,,._ ;' .,. -- 4 ' ' 92 - = -- - ,.-1. . .ibe. - _t l_. ... 92 .
NTERVIEW WITH 92 present._ 1 so1isvo 3eeeri1 otho§ §eraoos o1to,attonséd U
this meeting but -I ail unable to recall their ames, i
ogn Lo ' 5*" =-___ p,-5:. ?'.,.f~5:" '- -_ W _I - ' " " EDLUNDSON had instructed me to _a§,certain from these _msn i .
what could be done to obtain for em a_'_';'us._jori-ty oféthe men employed at Kine
"B". Accordingly, I took this matter up ~iitht1ios_e Linen and their proposition
was that if they were given §10,00,0p they felt confidant they buld be able
to swing a majority of the men to UH- _Thay stated they would have to spend
a good deal of money to work their way into meniership. BOHANIIOH
was the principal spokesman for these men in presenting this proprsition.' » t _..."- P. -.<.,.,-'. - .
In the presence of these men I ate! ephoned to BAY EDMUNDSOH and,
after I explained their proposition to him, he instructed me to turn it
down, commenting that he could buy the mine for $10,000.00. Accordingly,
I informed the men that their proposition was not satisfactory to EDLTUNDSOH.
"During the next few weeks I saw various individuals mentioned
above around UMW Headquarters from tim to time, But I had no further formal
discussion with them concerning the Mine B matter., - _ _ - .
-92 _ --¢.
"Near the end of July, 195?, I was instructed by EDHUNDSON to i
install the officers of a new UMW local which had been organized at Mine
"B". I had nothing to do with the organization of this local and did not
know it had been organized until EDMUNDSO}? instructed me to install the
officers. About 25 members attended the meeting when the officers were
installed and I understood that all these members had been employed at
Hine "B" prior to the strike.
"On August 20, 1937, I signed a working agreement for Mine "B"
with cast z-1. ELSHOFF. This contract was signed at on"; Headquarters. I has
nothing to do with the preparation of this contract and I erely signed asBoard Member at EDHUNDSON's instruction. ELSHOFF-was thorwght the time the
contract was signed but I do not recall that are ad any di ussion con-
cerning putting the mine in operation. Ag-cntsand have
displayed to me a phctostatic copy of a contrac'tWd'§Fc?d at , Illinois,
August 18, 1937, which contract was signed by RAY EDZEUITDSON and CARL H. -
ELSFOFF. _I wish to state that I have never seen the original oi this
contract and did not know of the existence of this contract until the
phctostatic copy was displayed to me by Special Agents d
"Prior to the time the contract was signed on August 20, 1937, I
had understood that ELSHOFF had applied for membership in the Illinois Coal
Operators Association. I do not recall exactly how this in" nation camsto , tt,:~sk.i?1|||1 told Y
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Re: JOHN L. Lssls, ET AL J.» ":/'
I boo 92
INT V . WITH On September 20, 1957, I again signed a contract with-g
ELSEDFF concerning Mine "B". As I recall this contract '
cortinue " was also signed at UHF Headquarters. I had no part in the
preparation of thiscontract and I merely signed as a
Board Member at EDMUNDSON's instruction.92'?ith reference to the purpose of
signing this second contract with ELSHOFF, it is my recollection that his
failure to become a member of the Illinois-Coal Operators Association had
something to do with the necessity for signing the second contract.
"I wish to state that prior to the signing of the second contract
it became known that the Progressives had instituted some sort of .
proceedings before the National Labor Relations Board. I recall that I
signed certain documents in connection with this matter which were presented
to mo for signature, but I had nothing to do with preparing these documents
and I don't recall the technicalities involved. _
At the time the second contract was signed nothing in partiullar
was said about operating the mine; However, it appeared to be the general
understanding that the purpose in signing the contract was to get a basis
for commencing operations. _
"A few days after September 20th, EDHUHDSON left town but before
he-loft he informed me it had been decided to ottempt to operate the mine
under the UHF contract on September 27, 1957. He instructed me to take
the necessary stops to attempt to place the mine in operation on that date.
Inasmuch as it was well known to both EDUUNDSON and myself that the UHF
local at Kine "B" had not over 25 members, I assumed that he intended
for me to obtain a sufficient number of UHF members from.wherever they might
be obtainable in order to put the mine in operation. Accordingly, I made
arrangements to have between 75 and 100 min;rs sent to Springfield from the
so-called Midland Track mines, that is, Peabody Mines No. Y, No. 8 andHo. 9, which are located in Christian County, Illinois. I ad these men
report at UM? Headquarters at about 2:00 A. H., September 27th.
"Early on the morning of September 27th, ELSHOFF and his Superin-
tendent, OSCAR FALCETTI, came to UMW Headquarters to make sure that all p
arrangements were complete before attempting to operate the mine. =hen
they saw this largo group of men around the Headquarters, they seemed
surprised and asked what the men were doing there. I told them that UHW
had a contract to operate the mine and I had simply brought in enough men
to fulfill UMW's end of the contract. I also pointed out to him that it_
was no Tea Party to open o mine which had been operated by'a rival union.
ELSEOFF then said he did not want these men to go out to the mine because _
there might be troubl. Ee said he simply wanted to start cleaning up the
mine with the few men among his employees who belonged to the UMK with the -
hope that after those men went into the mine the others would gradually
sign up with UNI in order to be able to go to work. Ho said he thought
- 426
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Re: JOHN L. Lewis, ET AL
'7 c_., é;,,74C> 92
that in this manner there would finally be enough of his
employees go over to UHF that the mine could be_pperated
again. ELSHOFF then telephonically contacted RAY EDEDRDSOH,
who was in Chicago. I believe EDMUNDSON was staying at
the Morrison Hotel. He told EDMUNDSON he did not want any trouble to be
caused by tjking these men out to the mine and I then talked to EDMUNDSON '
on the telephone and he instructed me to tell the men to return to Christian
County without going to Mine 'B'. o _
"Accordingly, on the morning of September 27, 1957, only about a
dozen UMW men, who were formerly employees of Mine "B", went down into the
mine. These were the men I had mot at IMF Headquarters prior to the strike on
Hay 12th. About 100 other employees of Hie; "B" were congregated along the
Jacksonville Road about one-half mi1e_from the mine but, although the atmos-
phere was tense, there was no violence and the men who went into the mine
to work were not molested.
"On the morning of September 27th, I stayed in the mine office until
about 9:00 o'clock and it was eopsrcnt by that time that no further employees
intended to go down into the mine. Accordingly, I returned to DEW 92
Headquarters and reported to EDMUNDSON in Chicago that the attempted opening
was a lflop. EDMUNDSON just passed the matter off by commenting that it
was simply the type of thing which will happen once in a while.
"I don't recall whether ELSHOFF blew the whistle for work next
day but I do recall I went out to the mine the morning after. The handful
of men who had worked the previous day came out to the mine office but they
did not attempt to go to work. However, I think possibly FRANK AUSTIN
wont below for the purpose of feeding the mules. A considerable nubor of
Nine "B" employees were on the Jacksonville Rood again that morning and -
believe there were also about a doqen of them standing around on the mine
premises, apparently merely for the purpose of watching. There was no _
violence that morning.
"During my conversations with FALCETTI and ELSHOFF at the mine office
on September 27th and 28th, FALCETTI named over various employees whose names
I cannot recall whom he stated were men having prestige among the employees.
He indicated that if these leaders could be won over there was a good chance
that most of the men would then follow them into the UHF. However, no plans y
concerning contacting these men were made. I might state that m conversa-
tions at this time with ELSHOFF and FALCETTI were not very comprehensive, '
inasmuch as this entire matter had been handled more or less as a private
deal between ELSHOFF, EDMUNDSON and KALTER J. JAMES, who was Secretary-
Treasurer of District lg, UMW. As I have indicated before, these men did
not consult me.for advibe on the various steps involved in this matter. -
They simply gave me routine instructions whenever the occasion made this
necessary. . '
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' J0 '7 5Re: JOHN L. LEWIS, ET AL
.I _ __._ _-....---.. .. ,. .. - .. .-.Um unu uuuaaluu in the F511 uf 193?, 6u10SeqLi¬11"C- "60 th$ ini" w - e# attempted opening on September 27th, snmssosos called me
continue and said he wanted to see me at UH Headquarters. When
I met him at UMW Headquarters he asked me to drive him
out to ELSHOFF*s residence for a conference. At ELSHOFF's residence we _
started to talk about the question of getting enough men to operate Mine iB ,
but shortly after the conference started EDRUNDSOH said he wanted to talk
to ELSEOFF in private and, accordingly, they left the room and held a
confidential conversation for about ten minutes. EDMUNDSOH then asked me '
to drop him off at the Leland Eotel= He did not inform me concerning the
details of his discussion with ELSHOFF. 'v921-n-92r-w-119-Y1-rr"
Subsequent to September 27th, I had nothing further to do with
the ine "B" matter aside from the incident ralated in the preceding .
paragraph until the early part of December. However, during this period
I did occasionally see the men who were trying to convert the employees
of Wino "B" to UM? and the reports of these men indicated they were not making
much headway. _ ' I
"Two or three days prior to December 13, 1957, EDMUNDSOH told me
they were going to try to operate the mine on December 13th to see how many
men would report for work, inasmuch as an injunction had gone into effect
removing the FHA picket line. He asked me to go out to the mine on the
morning of December 15th to see what happened. I-went to the mine that _
morning but only about a dozen men showed up for work and these were the -
men whom I had met at UHF Hcadquarters prior to the strike on Fay 12th. There
was no one around to stop men from reporting for work and tho small attendance
simply indicated that the UHF drive to convert members had failed. After
this EDHUNDSON stated the UH? would not participate in the election which
was to be held by the National Labor Relation§_Beard on December 15th.
TDIUFDSOY said that it was apparent that UHF would got very few votes. He
said that he had ascertained that the Progressive employees of Mine "B"
intended to report at their Headquarters and vote in a body, ,
"I understood from indirect sources that after December 15, 1937,
ELSHOFF and EDMUNDSON had a big argument. I understood that ELSHDFF told
EDEUFDSON that if he could not make any better progress_in breaking down the
Progressive local he would simply have to sign a contract with the Progressives
and operate with Progressive personnel. I understood that at this time '
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~ 2 TIT "On or about January 1, 1938, EDMUNDSOH advised me it had
been decided to make another attempt to operate the mine
continue on January 4, 1938. He instructed me to go out to the
mine that morning and see what happened. t t the I wen o
mine that morning and only the usual group of about 12 men .ard for work.
However, in addition to this group thcrc were also pl"ESO!l't
and The other men brou, kets and wo " =¢
as thong ey 1I'1 ended to work, but appeared in- ll. _ 1 4.1 _ - . _ . " """"""""""_"L:-':U:'?a -..-. .-. n .-. -ubusiness suits. At tnat time ooth o1 these men were employed at Peabody
Mine #59, but it was generally understood in Springfield that t "- were onthe '1, at least part of the time, as field workers.
of the talking with F13 JOFF and FALCETTI that morning-
lked in an o.'Ei'icious manner and it was perfectly
present as offic.ia1.1epresentativw of the UM? rather
than as candidates for employment at mine work. To nry knowled e, bothELSHOFF and FALCETTI had previously been acquainted with i and
A - 1 tRe: JOHN L. IE.-WIS, ET AL
"I simply reported to EDNUFWSOH that only about a dozen men appeared
for work the morning of January 4th and he gave me no further instructions
concerning Mine "B" at that time. Ho did not disclose to me what his plans
were concerning this situation.
. "I had nothing further to do with the Fine "B" matter. This mine
opened up in the Fall of 1959 on an open shop basis but EDMUNDSOI?! specifically
instructed mc to stay out of the matter, inasmuch as it would be handled by
the office. By this he meant that it would be handled by himself, and
WALTER J. J1.1~.&".S . _
v.;; . ;_, ' V. Sometime during the S _ .1 Q, r ..-2, ¬£i.ir£;_,15=_.__,;,92_,_ t»-I-= =92 - at ab ___~ .; ,_- =-_~: r. 92 _
' ' O 4 " ' if I 5 'riot 1', l_:, had aovanceo I 0 a large sum of
moncy;, I do not recall definitely the figure he stated but it is my
impression that the amount he stated was $400,000.00. He said LLSHOFF had
been paid $3,000.00 per month for keeping his mines down for the Summer months
and $5,000.00 during the ?intor months. He also told me"that92because of
the money paid to FLSHOFF, the International had authorized District 12 to
retain in its own treasury both the regular International assessment and all
special International assessments which otherwise would have been paid
into the International treasury.
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Re: JOHN L. LEWIS, ET AL
INTERVIEW WITH
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the Post-Dispatch, EDMJFDSON was quoted in a later article
as stating the matter had the approval of the District 12 membership. JAMES
was ouoted as admitting the payments to ELSEOFF were in the form of a loan.
ELSHdFF was quo as admit+
it was a loanrecei that
"Thereafter, RAY EDHUUDSOF and WALTER J. JAMES charged me with
violation of Ezction 5, Article 21 of the International Constitution.
"On the night of Yovember 19, 1942, I attended a meeting of UMW
Local 906 which covers the membership at Peabody Nine #59. This meeting
was held on the 7th floor of
present. A large delegation
EDNUNDSON took the floor and
starting an investigation of
start a law suit avainst theUM? Headquarters. EDMUNDSON and JAMES were
from Pine "B" was present at this meeting.
condemned the Internal Revenue service for
the matter and he even stated he was going to
Government. He also stated he was going to demand D
a congressional investigation of the affair. JAMES took the floor and said the
purpose of the payments was to put Kine "B" in operation under the banner of
UMW. Kc said it had been a good investment. He pointed out that as a result
of the payments, UMU had acquired in the neighborhood of 500 new members and
he said that already the dues and assessmcnts from these new members amounted
to e sizcdblo figure. I believe he said that over t80,000.00 had been
received from these new members. Neither he nor EDHUNDSON said anything
to indicate they were looking to ELSEOFF for payment and neither of them made
any comment whatever oonotrning ELSHOFF's ability to repay; However, they
did rcfar to those payments as a loan.
' "On the following day, Ygvember 20, 1942, I was suspended from UMI
for six months and barred from holding office for two years.
"I wish to add that in the early Fall of 1952 I was present in a
1
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Re: JOHN L. UEWIS, ET AL
L ?CL» 19'?!!
1NTt V ET'WITE ncvcr sign a contract with the Progressives. However,
as nearly as I can recall ELSHOFF did sign a contract with
fcontinueas the Progressives a few hours after this meeting.
"I have road th; fcrcgcing statement, consisting of thirteen type-
written pugos, and I ackncwlcigo that the information sot forth herein is
czrrcct to tho host of my recollection.
.ITVESSES: -
Special Agent FBI -
Qpccial Agcnt FBI"
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Re: JOHN L. LEWIS, ET AL
L76
REI1YTERvIE'.T T.TIH U on the telephonic request of Special Agent yi.ILLlA3.I 1-1. arm M Mr. WILLIAM 1-,1. RYAN, the former owner 0
Jln ", Springfield, Illinois, came to the SpringfieldOffice. At this ti Lfr. 4- ANT was approached by Special Agent and Special Ag-;nr ro-lative to a signed statemen regarding
his conversations with ' Hhoo in the early part of 1957 add the complete
details of th: s;le of Mine "A". Mr. RYAN flatly refused to execute a
signed statement unless he consulted his attorney. He said that he was
willing to testify in the instant trial and that he would be glad to confer
with those handling the prosecution before taking the witness stand.
Mr. RYAN was interrogated in minute detail relative to this
conversation with EDNUNDSDN in 1957 in an effort to get the exact words
or their essence. It appears that EDHWKDSCN did not reach the point where
he made a definite propvsition to RYAN to close down his mine in order that
the United Mine Korkers could organize it. Neither was any offer made to
RYAN to subsidize him in case any financial losses were sustained and the
mine had to be shut down. To the best of his recollection, Hr. RYAN stated
that EDMUNDSON called him in the early part of 1937 approximately three
months before Kine "B" actually closed down, requesting him to come down
to the United Mine Workers office.
Mr. RYAN stated that he complied with this telephonic request and
in the initial part of the convzrsation with EDMUNDSON there was a general
discussion about the weather and other non-controversial issues. EDMUNDSON
at length asked RYAN what he thought of the United Hine Workers and the
Progressive Mine Workers. Er. RYAN stated he sensed a proposition was in
the offing and in order to forestall this he definitely stated his position,
saying: I do not see any difference between either one. They have the
same contracts, the some grievance procedure and the operator experiences
the same grief with both. RYAF stated that he was already treating with
one union and did not see why he should consider any other. Ho told
EDLREESON that if he should commit himself in that fashion, by and by these
two unions would go back together, compare notes and then they would really
put the pressure on him. EDHUFDSON then asked RYAN how he thought GEORGE
SOLOMON of the Panther Creek Mines, Inc., would feel about the United Mine
"orkers and Progressive Kine Workers. He also asked RYAN the same question
concerning CARL H. ELSHOFF. Hr. RYAE advised that he told EDMUNDSON that
he didlnot know how either of these two men felt about that question and
if EDNUNDSON wanted to know he would have to see ELSHOFF or SOLOMON.
In Mr. RYANs explanation of the conversation, he advised that
due to their background in the mining industry and labor relations, a great
deal was understood between them without the actual expression in words.
RYAN was certain that he was being approached by EDMUNDSON in order to
make a deal with the United Mine Workers. Kowevor, it is difficult for
- 452 -
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ET AL_ Re: JOB? L. LE'.'.'IS,
REIHTERVIET §ITH'
WILLIAM M. RYAN
continued!Mr._RYAN to understand why,in the event he is called
to testify, his conclusions as to the unspoken effort
on the part of EDMUNDSON could not be introduced in
evidence.
It is anticipated in case Mr. RYAN is called to testify that some
difficulty may arise in this situation and with respect to Hr. RYAHs
attempting to state his conclusions and infercncrs from his conversation
with EDMUNDSOI.
13. RYAN advised that he expected to go to California within
the nccr future and in the event he did, he would notify the Springfield
Office of his address. Ht expectcd to go to Los Angeles and advised he
generally stayed at the Eiltmorc Hotel. '
The investigative notes which were taken by Special Agent
during the interview are being retained in the files of this office.
Iith respect to the details of the sale of Mine "A", the narrative
of these events, as set forth in ih; investigative report of this office
dated September 4, 1943, was reviewed with Mr. RYAN and he stated that this
was correct. -
-.433
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Re: JOH L. LEWIS, ET AL - f-'@ '
3. '
w
.92
REINTERVIEW WITH Hr. ROBERT C._SOLOHON, President of Panther Crack _ * J ROBERT C. SOLOMON Coal Hines, Inc after some reflection, advised 1:,Special Agent ths1; he has calledfor the facts concerning the attempts pure ase 0 e Panther Creek Coll 1,Mines by CARL H. ELSHOFF and desired to see Special Agent Q C_,
again. -
- Mr. SOLOMON from his attitude and cooperation is we1ldisposed
toward this investigation and is willing to testify. He advised that he got
along very well with ELSHOFF from 1932 up until the time that_he became
involved with JOHN L. LEWIS in 1937. Since that tie, however, Hr. SOLOMON
has experienced considerable difficulty in dealing with ELSHOFF and ins
heard that ELSHOFF blames him for the success of the organizational efforts
of the Progressive Mine Workers of America in the Springfield area.
1-Q. Pin-92-I P9292II92I . . I 4 I 1 Q 9292 A 92I I n _: _J_ ____mr. ounumuu was reintervicweo and tne roiiowing statement was
submitted by him:
Springfield, Illinois
September'9, 1943 e
"STATEIEFT OF ROBERT C. SOLOFOF, PRESIDENT OF TEE PANTHER CREEK COAL HINES, INC
"As President of the Panther Creek Coal Mines, Inc., I recall the
4 '.~l'1.-.92n-inn -F"nn+p »~-?..-»..-.-..--l-»v..-92.;e- ¢.92-A .92,92-.-.->q-..-.;92+£,-92>-92|.- e-.~.l¢4--I-e.-. -0-A -6-1»,-, Q"+r1III92i92+d92IILLJLLUVVLJJS J.¢fLr92ID, 92-r.LJ. 92/LAJUD I/J-L-IL/MID 51-1U 92-ILJLLVKJI. D-A-ULLII-LD lUL¬Z|-I-LVC U1! MILL l3UUUl-I-IIJUWI-I
purchase of those properties by CARL H. ELSHOFF of Springfield, Illinois,
during the years of 1941 and 1942: e ,
"It is my understanding that the original approach to purchase
these properties was made by Ur. HARRY ALLEN, representative of the Alton
Railroad Co., to Mr. HARRY FORGAN, Secretary-Treasurer of the Panther Creek
Co; during the summer of 1941. It was'these two gentlemen who eventually
brought Hr. CARL H. ELSHOFF into the picture as a possible purchaser. In
the nerlv stave: _ _ _n__J ___v_ nf theme nnontiafinnn thnv ware nnrrind n m r nr lane f92 £3 92-I} v4;n4|-| qv 92.-v¢.--v¢.... .-e v;.;92.p ---- 92."-...e.-.-..-92- 92Jn.n. nu w urn ..v--esecretly with r. MORGAN: Hgwever, due t0JMr. hORGAN's ill health he was
not able to continue actively in the business, and these parties wore eventu-
ally forced to come to me."
"1 had several telephonic conversations with ELSHOFF concerning the
possible purchase of the Panther Creek Fines, and eventually I told him that
if he were actually interested that we should sit down and go into the
details in a serious and business like manner. Consequently, a conference
was arranged on Junc ll, 1942, which was attended by myself, my attorneys,
hr.-CLAYTON J. BARBTR and L. G. PLFFLRLE, and CARL H. HLSHOFF.
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Rc: JOHN L. LEWIS, er AL ' l
' 92
"During that conference various propositions were "
ROBERT C. SOL formulated, one of them being that possibly ELSEOFF
continued! _ could purchase the capital stock of the Panther Creek
Hines, Inc., and thus gain control of the corporation.
ELSHOFF did not entertain such a proposal as this, inasmuch as the corporate
sctup of the Panther Creek Hines would remain intact, and as such it would
still retain its obligations including labor contracts, which at that time
and at present are with the Progressive Mine Workers of America. It was
then proposed that ELSBOFF lease the properties. This was discussed more
or less ct length, and it was igreed that the proposition should be drawn
up in a letter of some sort, ELSHOFF stated that before accepting any prqposa
he would have to consult his people in haihington. Hr. BARBER then kidded
ELSEOFF to some extent stating that he probably meant that he would have to
go to see the man with the big bushy eyebrows. ELSHOFF did not respond
either negatively or affirmatively to this statement of Mr. BARBER's but
sort of smiled when it was passed. '-921-92-r-92v|v921-.w92nninin:
"During this interview ELSHOFF made it plain that he wished to gain
_.r~ +1.... ._....-L-1...». .l__n,. 4-rs... A 4-1... 4- ' . ' -.....U1, emu eu.92.J.192~_= pruyuIu..;;:., isle: that I'll tl1G-'¬VEt ll dlil SO ll¬ ~.--ulild...._.-L...-.1UU.[IL¢I'UJ.
change the name of the corporation.
As the result of this conference a letter was drawn up which is
dated June ll, 1942, addressed to Mr. ELSHOFF and beginning:
.1 .
"' This is to confirm our discussion this morning, wherein it was
indicated that Panther Creek Mines, Inc. is willing to lease to you all
of its coal mining properties, with the option to purchase or to renew,
ell on the following basis. . - 7
"I am not advised as to rhether or not definitely FLSPOFF did go
to Washington, D. C. to consult with JOHN L. EEWIS. However. I have received:,,,JJ,;,_§-»---.- ~ ~1"'5-;.@",;~eE
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Re: JOHN L. LEWIS, ET AL
REINTERVIEW WITH
RUBERT C. SOLOHOH
continued!and gave
&melL
this was
with the
were actually made.
"In his letter dated
interest in the purchase of t
to purchase this mine by payi
time. In this manner he woul
was the last that I heard of
"Road above e
92w92 and to best of my
- recollection is .
correct.
R.C.S." signed
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them an oral proposition based on the one madt
1942, in a modified for. They seemed to think
all right. However, this apparently did not meet
approval of ELSHOFF for_no further negotiations
:
October 30, 1942, ELSHDFF again indicated an
he Auburn Mine at Auburn, Illinois. He proposed
ng royalty of 10¢ per ton for a given period of
d obtain complete title to all property. This
this matter.
92
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Re: JOHN L. inns, ET AL. _ -. 1
I1 Septe ber 4 1943 Special Agentséand interviewed t. G. , , yINTERVIEW WITH
L. G. PEFFERLE.
Attorney, Reisch'Bui1ding, Springfield, Illinois, concerning information
furnished by ROBERT C. SODUMQJ, recorded in report of reference. ur.
Pl~3FI"'_T.P_LE confirmed that he represented SOLOLIII in connection with
negotiations between SdUMIN and ELSHOFF. In these negotiations CLKITON J.
BARBER was also present. r. PEFFERLE advised_that at no time during these
negotiations, which concerned the possible purchase of Panther Greek mine
properties by ELSHOFF from SOLOMGJ, dd ELSHOFF ever mention where the
Honey for this purchase would come from. It was the opinion of PEFFERLE
that ELSHOFF or the Mine "B" Coal Company would not have SiJffiCi8!lt funds
to enter into any negotiation as large as the one nder discussion.
SOLOLDN and PEFFLBLE were discussing a sum of approximately $900,000, V
while stsaow was discussing a sum oi approxirzately 51.00-,ooo. ' During
these discussions at different times ELSHUFF said to PEFFERLE that he
would have "to see my people". PEFFEELE stated that he never questioned
ELSHOFF as to who his people or financial backers night be. "I more
more or less assumed that it would be either District l2, United Mine '
Workers or the International United Mine orkers, or JOHN L. LEWIS, but
of course my assumption was based upon comon gossip and upon matters
incidental to the negotiation." ,
PEFFERLE said that at no time during the negotiations in con-
nection with the Panther Creek properties did RAY ED.TUNII5 N or J0}-I L.
LEIS ever contact him or to his knowledge any of the parties involved.
"During the negotiations it appeared to me that EESHDFF would not be
able to secure sufficient money to purchase the Panther Creek properties
at our figure of about $900,000.: Because of this fact and because of
the desire on our part to save money in connection with the payment
of income tax, not only for ourselves, but also pointing out it would
save money in connection with income tax for ELSHOFF, we suggested that
a lease arrangement might be worked out. This lease arrangement would
provide for a certain yearly payment on the lease over a period of ten
years, and if the lessee decided to purchase then the payments of annul
lease rent would apply on the principal. I felt that this was a rather
attractive offer and since ELSHOFF did not accept the offer and from
his general demeanor and attitude at the time, it is my opinion that
he really did not want to personally buy the Panthcr.Creek properties
at all," ELSHOFF apparently objected to the lease proposition be- .
cause it might give rise to what ELSHUFF felt was a bad feature, namely
that if ELSHOFF secured the property on lease that might leave the
Progressive Mine Workers of America some claim to job rights nder
their existing contracts. The Panther Greek mines were Progressive
Mine Yorker mines at the time. ELSHOFF stated that it would have to
be an exceptionally clean-cut proprosition, apparently referring to com-
plete severing of all rights, includingithose of labor.
.'. - 437 -
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Re: JOI-N L. Loris, ET at. ' _,
renews»; .»"1*re1 - Mr. Psrrswz stated that the feeling pervading in. l -
L. G. PLFFERLE. the negotiations was that the successful outcome of these
Continued! negotiations would mean the end of the Progressive Mine -
Aorlcers of .»l.merica in the mine. I92Iet1'n..'.1g was n.1er"'...-iened by any of the parties
directly on this point howe1.er., ' -
P?JF'ERl.E pointed out to Agents that EDI-E3-ND BURKE, attorney from-'
the firm of Gillespie, 3urke and Gillespie, Reisch Building, Springfield,
Illinois, first became attorney for JOE-N L. LEWIS in about 1929 or 1930
during the time that injunction proceedings were initiated against LEJIS
by the officers oi District 12, United Liine Workers. Since that time and
up to date LDLJUND BURKE has remained attorney for JOB! L. LE;.T.[S. PEFFERLE
believes that BURKE is retained by LE-{ES for a fee of approximately l}.15 _!,£¥J
per month, plus additional costs when particular matters arise, and that
his services are paid from the International United Mine Workers. His
reason for believing that BURKE '3 retainer fee and other fees are paid
from the International 15 that BURKE represented RAY EDHLNIBGI in connection
with a murder charge as a result oi a shooting in Springfield, Illinois '
on an Easter Sunday about eight or nine years ago. At that time RAY
ED}-{UN.'36i192I told P'EFFERLE that none of BUFLKE's attorney fees in connection
with the defense oi HAY EDMUNIISOIJ showed on the books of District l2 or .
Local #50, but rather were all taken care {of through the international mione
PEFFEFrl.E also stated that one E. S. PERRY, manager of the Leland Hotel
Springfield, purchased his coal for the Leland Hotel from ELSIIOFF prior to
1932 when E151-IOFF was operating a United Nine Workers mine. After
EI..SHOP'F's mine became a Progressive Mine .-iorkers mine PERRY, apparently
desiring to retain the business of the Lhited Mine Workers officials for
his hotel, and which apparently he considered lucrative, discontinued pur-
ehasil-g coal from ELSJOFF and began purchasing coal from Peabody Coal
Company, which was a United Mine Workers operated mine. Thereafter
PEFFERLE stated that JOEN L. LIINIS made a long distance call to PERRY,
asking him why he had stopped buying coal from ELSHOFF and requesting
him to again buy coal from ELSHOFF. PER.RY1s reply to LEWIS allegedly
was that since ELSHOFF's rrline was no longer a United Mine Workers mine,
he had purposely switched coal companies in order to favor United Mine
Workers with his business. PEFFERLE is unable to state the source of
this information, other than to say that it was a story which came tohim
from various people in the coal industry, the veracity of which he has
no doubt.
- /
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Re: Jon: L; LEWIS, er AL. - -
INTERVIEW WITH
1' l'92 'D'l§~'l¬'DDTlILin U. l'JIJl'I.E|.Fi_|l.||.E||n
Continued!
In addition to the information already reported,4
. 92
on September 3 1943 "1 vied of additional infor- 9 9
nation furnished by cL,n'1'<s J, BaRo"nn"", and in V5.87 of
the fact that he stated he had talked with PEFTERLE in
7 an attem to refresh their minds correctly on_the matter, Special Agent5 ?<: re-interviewed Mr. n.
ur.
after examining a copy of a letter addressed Jne ll, 1942 to CARL H. -
ELSHOFF and containing the offer by the Panther Creek Mine Company to make
a lease to ELSHOFF, recalled that this was one of the main meetings of
the parties in connection with ELSHOFF's negotiations for Panther Creek.
He recalled several other meetings before this meeting, the exact number,
time and place of which he could not recall. He did remember one in-
ho' . stance,
ELSHOFF at ntsnurr snever, previous to the meeting on June ll, l9L2, when he met
OIIZLC8, 3.13 'i''1lCI1 tlme !1J.bHU1"1' Bxhlblt-Ed 3. l8.Ig¬ Pile
of photostatic copies of information pertaining to an appraisal which the
Panther Creek Mines had had made._ The Panther Creek Mine had previously
contemplated attempting to secure a loan from Reconstruction Finance 92
Corporation and for this reason had had the appraisal made. ELSHOFF P
had undoubtedly secured photostatic copies of the appraisal from the Re- -
construction Finance
Panther Creek people
Hines.
Mr. PEFFERLE
lease was made, took
BARBIE, attorney forCorporation and in this connection claimed that the
had to some extent misrepresented Panther Creek
recalled that the main meeting, at which an offer of
place in the forenoon in the office of CLAYTON J.
the Panther Creek Mine Company. Present were M;
ROBERT SULUMON, President of Panther Creek MineS, Mr. BARBER, represent-
ing Panther Creek Hines Mr. PEFFERLE, who represented the Panther Creek
Hines in connection with compensation claims, and Hr. CARL ELSHOFF. M.
PEFFERLE recalled that the suggestion was wade that CARL ELSHOFF secure
control of Panther Creek Mines by purchasing the capital stock. He
would thus obtain all the assets and liabilities and contracts of Panth
Creek Nine. ElSHOFF stated that he was not interested in purchasing the
capital stock because all rights of the corporate entity and all contracts
of it would be included and he would be tied up with a contract with
tm;mn1mnm.
' Mr. PEFFERLE further recalled in addition to the information set
out above, that ELSHUFF stated that the lease proposition would carry
with it the labor contracts and that "I don't want those." ELSHOFF
wanted to buy only the physical propertye On June ll, l942, ELSHOFF h
also stated, to the best of PEFFERLn'S recollection, "I've got to have
it in writing to take to my people in Washington." Here he meant the
proposition or offer of Panther Creek nines. -
' -459-
4 1 an u 15;: W» fl? 4 '__,-N at -7;; 4* i-L ,,_ ~,_ I _f=_"'_;:_~ _~. 92 r -' _, Q -4. .7 '75. . e-A ..'-..-i r- -
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Re: Jam L. LEWIS, E1 AL.- - r
I ~, 1
PEFFERLE stated that it was his understanding that -
. the "people in Washington" we-a'JOHN L. LEWIS, but
EESHOFF did not say so.
During the conversation Attorney BARBER, according to PEFFEHLE,
kidded ELSHCFF about the "man with the heavy eyebrows", as being the
financial backer of the purchase. To this ELSHOFF never admitted or denied
anything. PEFTEHLE stated that the original discussions, considerations
were for all Panther Creek mine properties, but that they also talked about
Panther Creek Aubuni Mine No. 1.INTEHVIEH'UITH
L. G. PEFFZRLE
ontinued!
Mr. PEFFERLE was unable to recall any statement at any later
meetings with ELSAOFF wherein ELSHOFF said that his people in Washington
turned the proposition down. He said that at one time during the con-
ference on June ll, 19L2, when the price question was being discussed
that it was his PEFFERLE's! information that the money was available
to which ELSHOFF replied tht he could get the money._,___ _
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Re: JOHQ L. LEWIS, H LL. 1 -- -- -
Jmssvisw WITH _92 .»v_ ._-.»
h ' lr1>¢;/ _ in ' 4,
Special Agent interviewed GI-t_¥l'£li ll. 4'
CLAYTOi J. BARBER. BARBER, attorney, 10th Floor, First National Bank
-
Building, Springfield, Illinois, on September '7, 191.3. Hr. BARBH-I ad-
vised that he has been attorney for the Panther Creek coal Company over
a long period of time; that in this capadty he knew of negotiations be-
tween the Panther Creek Mines and.GARL H. ELSHOFF, which began, to the
best of his recollection, sometime during Hey of 1942- He stated that on
June ll, 1942 a meeting was held in his office between ROBERT SOLOMHJ,
President of the Panther Creek Hines, PEFFERLE, anothr attorney for
Panther Creek Mines, CARL H. ELSHOFF and himself. He refreshed his re-
collection in connection with this date by a copy of a letter
to cam. H. stssorr, dated June 11, 1942, and beginning, !"I'his
confirm our discussion this morning, wherein it was indicated
Creek Fines, Inc., is willing to lease to you all of its coal
properties s**".
During the conversation M. BARBER recalled that whenaddressed
is to
that Panther
nning
l the pro»
position was made to ELSHOFF he stated, to the best of BARBER's re , -
collection, "I will have to go to Wishington to see m people about it,"
that as a matter of fact the offer to ELSHOFF was written at ELSHOFFFS
request as ELSHOFF stated that he wanted a sales talk "for Washington".
Mr. BARBER stated that during the conference he kidded ELSHOFF about ~
"the man with the big eyedrows", as being the real purchaser. ELSHOFF
neither admitted nor denied this and at no time during the conference
did ELSHOFF actually indicate who would furnish the money. Mr. BARBER
understood from ELSHOFF*s financial status that ELSHOFF would not be
able to finance the deal himself. During the conversation it was sug-
gested that ELSHOFF obtain
the capital stock .ELSHOfFcontrol of Panther Creek Hines by purchasing
stated that he was not interested in this -
because to obtain control of the company in that nenner would retain
the name, identity, assets, liabilities and contracts of the corporation
and ELSAOFF plainly stated that he did not desire to take over the PHA
labor contract of the Panther Creek Mines, Inc.
II! connection with
to Lessee as Compared with
BARBER's office. This was
part of his sales talk for
in this connection reveals
that he is unable to state
ever
this
into
havethe proposition_a document entitled "Savings
an Immediate Purchase" was prepared in Hr.
at the request of ELSHUFF and was to be
his people in Washington. HT. BaRBER's file
the original and a copy of this document so
whether the information contained therein was _
furnished to CARL LLSHOFF. The information which is contained in
document is information showing a savings to the lessee by entering
the proposed lease agreement previously nentioned and copies of which
been furnished to this office by ROBERT SOLO!-lfll. -
92
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Re: J01-N L, LEWIS, ET AL.
mrmvrsw WITH * m~. amass states that thereafter he received
CLAYTEIC J. BARBER. a signed copy of a letter dated July 6, 1943, ad- '
Continued! dressed to ROBERT C. SOLOIJCN, President, Panther
Creek Mines, Inc., and signed by CARL H. H53-IUFF. This letter, on the
letterhead of Mine B Coal Company, states that the agreement suggested is
not satisfactory. Mr. calls attention to the editorial "1re"_ used
in the letter, namely,
_ "We decline to acceptit #1-HP. I am still interested.
First we hope in a discussion +1-:1-u~"
Mr. BARBER states that LE1". ELSHOFF at no time ever tznentioned who was
actually meant by the "we" used in the letter. A copy of this letter
is retained in Mr. B.ARB3R*s files. _ ' "
Mr. BeRBER pointed out that E151-IOFF purchased his home on the .
corner of Bates and South Grand Avenue in cash; that after he purchased
this home he stat in the Ehi s home .
V." I?-.-E_~;.'; $5 H. "- ;
Mr. BARBER stated that shortly after the negotiations for Panther
Creek Mine fell through an injunction was brought by the Wage and Hour
Division of the Department of Labor in the Federal District Court at .
Springfield, Illinois. M1". B.lRBI§<. advised that the legal method of bring-
iqg this injunction by the Jage and flour Division was extremely unusual
and ho believes is the only type of case of its kind in the country. He
pointed out that it was brought by the Tiage and Hour Division without
that division talking over the matter with the company or its attorneys.
The company was never able to find out What complainant brought the matter
to the attention of the "age and Hour Division and the company had never
I¬COiVed any complaints in connection with this Wage and Hour matter
from its employees. He felt that this complaint originated with JOHN L.
LEJIS or the U111 for the purpose of causing financial embarrassment to
Panther Creek Mines, Inc., thus perhaps forcing a sale, knowing that Panther
Creek Z-Times at the time was indebted ir. the sum of approxirnately $400,000.
The title in Federal District Court in Springfield for this matter was
hcard under Civil Docket #191, PHILIP B. FLEMING, Administrator of the -
age and Hour Division, United States Department of Labor. IRVDJG J.
LEVY, .=.LE.X ELSON and HEJRIJUJI FMT of 222 nest North Bank Drive, Chicago,
Illinois, represented the Department of Labor. Tho complaint was filed
November 6, 1941 and was dismissed July 1, 1942.
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Re: J01-N L. no-;1s, ET AL.IN -'92*"1'-",'._.s.-*-1,,_ " ~me -' "' -'v- !-
|..,._ . _
INTERVIEW WITH M. HhRBER recalled that one JOHN CARROLL,
CLAYTON J. BARBER. General eight Agent for the B 8: 0 and Alton _
continued! Railroad in Chicago, Illinois, was _;i:1te-rsted
in this negotiation for the purchase of Panther Creek Mine, probably in
order that these railroads might secure additional business.
92
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JOHN L. LEWIS, ET AL _ o; j- ,' _fs§; pi {ragPam_ _ .5,-__. ._ -..92 ,-M,a r '=-92 J. i- KJ 1 I ". i ,
INTERVIEW WITH Mr. FRED scsasrrsa, who is Becretdry of th ccci Produceriln
FRED SCHAEFFER Association of Illinois located a iai= llinois, III interviewed by Special Agent of the '-
Springfield Office relative to the membership of hi HI~=l" in the -
Mine "B" Coal Company during the years that this company was dealing with
the Progressive Miners of America as a labor organization. It should be
noted that the Goal Producers Association is composed of officials of
operating mines who are organized by the Progressives. ' _
_ 2'
Mr. scsasrrsa produced his file on cant stssorr, which reflected
that ELSEOFF became a member of the Coal Producers Association in the Fall
of 1932 and was considered a member until August, 1935. During this entire
period, numerous letters were written to ELSHOFF requesting him to pay his
dues to the association. It was noted that he was delinquent on several _
occasions and at the time when he was dropped_from the association he had
not
lull n
any
hispaid dues for February, Harsh, April, May, June and July of 1935.
SCHAEFFER advised that, according to the rules of this organization, '
member could be dropped from the association if he was delinquent in
duos for two months or more. Upon the evidence obtained in the file,
Fr. SCHAQFFER stated that ELSHOFF was dropped because of his delinquency
in dues payments. He had no information relative to ELSEDFF and his
ceasing to be a member of the association which would be pertinent to this
case. -
Mr. SCHAEFFER stated that for a number of years he was on the
Board of the Illinois Coal Operators Association, which deals with the
United Nine Workers of America. He advised that any operator could become
a member of this association through formal application after it had been
approved by the Board of the Operators Association. A prerequisite for
membership was not that the individual operator's mine should be absolutely
free of any labor trouble at the time of the application. Admission to '
membership rested solely with the Board, who simply decided whether or not,
the operator wasreliable and would meet his obligations as a member of the
association. Mr. SCHAEFFER had no information as to whether or nt ELSHOFF
applied for membership in the Coal Operators Association or,if so, why he
was refused. - ' - l ' "
I ~
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Re: Jam L. Lewis, ET st. » . 'i -
I . -' n
mtrssvmr WITH JOHN W. Hmnmasn was interviewed at his residmce
Joi-N W. HBJDMLRSH. in Riverton, Illinois, on September 5, 1943, by Special
.~Lger;tsgS ano" Hr. HDIDMARSH is presently CID
representative in the Spring ie 'stric of Illinois. He travels ex-
tensively and can best be located through Er. FULLERTCN FULTCN of the CID
Regional Office in Chicago, Illinois. 7
Mr. HJIIDLRRSH was active in the ULEI organization up until 1930 or
1931, when he became inactive, and as a matter of fact let his membership
lapse because of extremely poor health. He did not again engage in mien
activity of any kind until about October 1940, when he applied to RAY
EDLNDSO!92T and had his membership reinstated. Thereafter for five weeks
he worked for UMW as an organizer in small, independent mines aromd
Springfield, commonly known as "trucking" nines. During this time he
expressed himself strongly against JOH1 L. LEWIS failure to come out
in support of President RJOBEVELT prior to the national election. As a
result of this HlllDj.L.RSII was advised by District 12 that his application
for the renewal of his membership had been disapproved, notwithstanding the
fact thit he had already been on the payroll for some five weeks and had a
certificate from the union as a paid organizer.
In view of H".ZND}.LtRSI-Us inactivity in connection with union matters
during the pertinent period ho was unable to furnish any probative infor-
mation, other than the signed Statement hereinafter quoted. As a matter
of record, MIR. I-IINDM.tRSH makes a good appearance, is forceful and it is
believed that he would make a better than average witness. He is very
cooperative in connection with instant matter.
"September 5, 1943
_ __,,Tohn 1». Hindmarsh make the following voluntary statementb7 cg to .,¢92{ and , W110!!! I KDOW LO b6 5p-ocial agents,
of .ie F"e 'era eau o ve igation.
"Some time during January 1941 I wont to The E-fine *3? Coal Co.
for the purpose of attempting to secure a. job for a good friend of
mine. at the mine I saw Oscar Falcetti and asked him if-he could
,_ ,. give my friend, whom Falcetti conceeded would be e. good miner, a job.
1*
2'
T-_;,__ ,"F=-lcetti did not say who the other party was but§h_i__~q_-: he meant officials of U.M."-T. of A. I later went to AFalcetti said confidentially: 'J:1cE, it is not a1;l_together up to me.
The other party has to be consulted.
of the U'.lL'i¢. of ,1. and asked him for a job I01 my iriend. _ 7<
1 55;. I =.¤,. - =3 9 5:-. _{Y .. Z
NJw 1.answered that he could not do anything about it then.
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-&-" -- " '-- "'92' - ; 1 .. 1.?-' ;'; Q -C ""11" -'.*='--t-"-"."" .'"-'="'!§:" .'= _ - 1 ~§~'5'~.I o~~_- . ~ .1. ~=»»..!-ii"-= I.!*-~' i-1-":7;**--.:3;-:---'=.i;1;=_*1.*-. -A - - ' t * »~. ' - -92""'- - _-'. ~ - - ~ " ' _ .. . 92. it: __ . I .t_,_;__-_92*q!,:=.,_._ _!- 4,i»5_, ~ .05 - *1-,* . -.'>»-=3? --it " " '5?-*..~e'-.. = .' -I ~ _- , >7 _ .!_ .,.- _, _ H 5,, ._ _. __ ,¢w,,~7-Lg 1; , _-__ y -¢ 4__-._;__ - -».. _ ._ --*M_ :!_-_.*,>,--- " -' " - B '- 2, '-1"-=-'_;;"§é'°.!l£:'.'> 1,, 92_ ' -'t_.__,.,92r__ !__, _ ¬_ 5;, ,;4_ .
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Re: J01-N L-. L'.~IHIS, Er ~ -.
_ { _ _, ' - - ' 45, ; 3*
DITERVIEW WITH Just previous to this time I had been employed-
JOHN W. HINDMARSH. by District 12 11.11.13, of A__ in__o1-ganizational work, -
Continued!. Ray Edmundson signing the certicate as represeznta-.
tive of District 12, U.1.!;w. In a meeting with Edmundson Irequested that mm
who might be thrown out of employment at the mines 1 was engaged in orga.'n5.z»-
ing, through their activities for the mion, would be given transfer cards
: 92 +1'92':§- +1-wanr no-92192'921-1 H4: gun-t-92"' r92iI'Il92.|'q 4'11 vn-§v-92.:nc 921|-Ar;-n 1-Ha iv--Q-K ea-11' 0+-inn ax TT II-7: -DU U155-M UIJCJ 92.:92JL¢LJ.92i LID -|.|.ul.tJJ.92.!J'92.-92A J-ll l£Ll_l-IGQJ 92Al1L¢lC¢.l- U11-W ,JLLlJ_D92J-l.92n92|.L92JL-l Ui U.-llll
of A. This mar. was one of several that were thrown out of employment be- .
cause of their activities in assisting in organizing a mine.
_ The above statement consisting of two pages in the hnndxvritingof is true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief.
"Signed JOHIJ HINDIJARSH
"Witnessed
us
Federal Bureau of Investigation, Springfield, Ill."
92
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STATUS OF
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ilrlthe Clerk
Illinois ,V _ .1 z-92
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