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Re: JOIN L. LEWIS, ET LL.
TERVIBW ' b Q Cl é Q0
on inue _
That is the only posuion I have held in this UM! local. -
"In Spring of 1937 I remember there was some controversy be-
tween the Pm and the company over retroactive pay, and I think this
might have been the reason for this strike. But I never heard the reason
for the strike was because the company would not re those men expelled
from the PW. local.II
I have read this statement of four pages and believe it to be
true and correct to the best of my lcnovrledge.
/s/ h
"I':'itne£_$ :
/5/_Special Agent, F.B.I.
/S/5P°°ia1 18° FBI"
-382-
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Re: JO!-IN 1.. Inns, er AL*j97C./ 10 71>
= V V Spring» '
' field, Illinoi was erv erred t s ome byal ent by at » I - Speci Ag
which time he executed a signed statement which is quoted 5%. .-
- H was extremely cooperative and appeared eager to .
L assist in s vestigation. It is believed he will make a very good
witness and appeared to have a thorou imowled e of the rtinent facts
n this case He
voluntarily supp ie ngen s py o e page pe 1 ion ated
Sept. 10, 1937 and entitled, "Designation of Representatite For Collective
Bargaining Under the National Labor Relations Act . The petition contains
a list of approximately 431 names and reflects that the signers thereof
wish to be represented by PIER in all negotiations. A receipt was given
for this statement and it is being retained in the les of the Springfield
Field Division.
- In is presently unemployed and he has no lcnovm criminal
record. t e a so e ibited his Honorable Discharge from the United States
Army. p
The following is the signed statement as obtained from_
A "Springfield, Ill.
August 30, 1943
melee the voluntary statement to -
re Special Ar-ents of the Federal Burewu of a _. -
or promises of any kind have been made to getll
=md
Investigation.
me to make a stn ' tement.
"I was born I began to
work in the nine at Peabody Mine #53 in and I then o d U.H.1?.A.
I worked at several mines but remained 1 men r of this union until 19321
I become dissatisfied with the my John L. Lewis was treating us and
because they stole the ballots at the election in 1932, I Joined P15.I did not work at the mines then until -when I went to work at Mine
B. I was a member of P137 at this time and was also on the mine committee
the first year I '-"oied Eijij B. In this eapaeity, Iliad the jot ef
settling the grievances and I n_é'v'E'r had any difficulty in any way with Oscar -
Falsetti or any of the other official-st92
"A short time before the PLIN strike in 1937, I was aware that
there were some labor spies who were attempting to persuade the miners to
join the U.H.'.A. About three weeks before the strike I came tovork at
about 6:30 3.11. and saw that some yellow pamphlets had been distributed.
-355-I
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Re: JG-[N L. IE-TIS, r..T AL L-7¢ L
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Those pamphlets as near as I can recall had to do with
the fact that we would not get any retroactive pay. I
lconti.nued§ was "digging" and when I saw these I knew that the
spies were behind it. In fact, I took a handfull
of then from Dominic Pasg_g;_l§_who was one of the spies. "INTEB'VIir.'
"I never see any of the officials of the mine and the cfficers of
UI.!'.'IA together but I did Jsee this group of spies on several occasions cane
out of PM-T meetings and go over and meet the UHTA officials. I know the
spies personally and they were Joe Albagggg, , Dominic
Pasquale, Plate Carter, Fran!-c_gu§j_;Ln', T , J s, Jo_l'£1_____
Sirtoutj Ewogfy ,I;§avg;y, Qhar1es Bohannon, James Hale. Jn April.2'7, 1937,
the se*spies were agitating. This was payday and the first one forwork done
after the old contract ran out. They were going around talking to tin
fellows that they weren't getting any back pay and would not as long as
we belonged to PAF1 and told us we would if we belonged to ULGTJL. Ihe
yellow pamphlets I mentioned before were distributed on statement day
which was three days before payday.
"The PEI? officials told us we would got retroactive pay but
: * ine Conpany said they did not have any contract to force then
o 0. Then the P157 called a meeting for 1-Say ll, 1937 and I was called
on to testify at this meeting on my knowledge of these spies. At this
meeting I believe there were 5 of then expelled from the union. In my
estimation they were given as fair a trial as they could have gotten in
any court trial. '
"Un the morning of ii-uy 12, an order was
a slow-down. We were loading cars with only 5 or
then. '1 he slow-down order did not frw. any
but was
Company
P2-5.? and
told ne
went upgiven out to start
6 hundred pounds in
of the union officials
nore or less made up among the men, because the I-{inc B Coal
refused to discharge the spies who had been expelled from the
the mn refused to work with them. Later in the day the driver
there was a strike and there would be no more work there so I
to the surface with the rest of the men. _
"Q1 Lhy 26, 1937, I think it we-.s_ we'were picketing out in the
road and there was a card table s-.t up and we all signed a petition
that no wanted to be represented by PIE. This petition was got up to
see how many of the non had changed to UHIA as a result of the agitation
by these spies:
"Ch Sept. 10, 1937, I signed a P..!Wpetition to have no Local
s for collective bargaining under the HIRE Act.IH
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T... a- ing rights but could get nocontract. At this time I was present of local_ _ ___ _ _ _ _A ___. . _-1--1 --i-.AA ._____________ __W el__ _ 7 __:,:, ~~~ f, , _ _ - _,, -.~-.~.. __,, ~_,. _, A -. f 92 1!., J,-in _ -u _*_Js- rs ; - l __ . -v Y 92 I-<
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Re: JOHN.L. LBFIIS,E'1LL -' . -
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IN'IE.RV .. .- the members of Local 5!. began pciketing to protectour jobs because it had been announced that the mine
con " would open under IBM contract. There was no violence
except that about ten of us told the engineer that _
we would start the pumps inasmuch-as they tried to shut-off on us. lbs
picketing continued until December when Carl Elshoff got an injunction
out to keep us from picketing. Just after the picketing stopped the mine
tried to open again and they brought l0 or l5 car loads oi men iron Taylor-
ville' in .to open the mine. No violence occurred at this time.
"The mine at»-empted to open several timesafter that but they
could only get a few men to work.
"In November 1939, I received a registered letter that the mine Owould open under a more or less open shop - that is the HM had bargai.n-
54 and sat in on conferences at which we tried to negotiate a contract 92 1- ~
but Elshoff refused to grant a closed shop or check-off system so no
contract was ever signed. We worked under this agreement for some time
I went to the PLM officials to get those paid but they said they were i
not finansiall" able to do so The LTIIIA then used this as a "club" over
and cd someA! 3 hevi] 0 92and the P15-.-' had a lot of death claims amounting to about $20,000 and
' ' 92
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the miners heads because they.ofier.*d the claims. 92
. _ ' E In this my they gained me
-5 Q
election held in 1941 othex than that the mwon it.
"At the time the mine reopened there were some pretty big-caveins t
but the mine was in fair condition because they began hoisting coal the
- next day after it opened.
"I do not now belong to any union and htve no nreference for
either PHW or UL-1'51.
La-.-. --92_--92 J-L. 4-I...--.-. _J-_-&.__....-J. -Q-a.-.|: -L-I.-- -.1" ;-'l_-.--L ll, __|--1111-VU I'Ur1U lull? AJLIJVKI §L¢1U92-'1"-IUIIU bU|1§J-§UJ|.l1{_ UL CIUULLU Q 1-ll.lEUwritten in the handwriting of and lo-new it true Q correct
to the best of my knowledge. '
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witnessed: -
Spscull Agent, F.B.I.
Sp. Agt. F.B.I. - Spfld,Ill." _
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Cs. O V
Re: JOHN L. mus, m AL b7c/ éip
N i nnanv N ma was interviewed at his home '1. i _ in ng e , nois, y Special Agents l and on Au st 30 191.3. No e s t 1--. -L-1-.-92_ :_..92.-_.-_L _ .-.A.l1_ .gi,_.._J f.___ .l._1._______4..!__ _§ 4_92__' IE5 DEREK] LIKE?-I5U'll.lUH H5 I15 QPPUETBU HUUT-Ill-B IIUWHFU any ]..l1'.vEI'lOga92',1Dn Bu RB
outset of the interview. He expressed ccnnplete ignorance of this imresti-'gation but stated he began working in the Coal Bines when he IQBQIEBTB old
and at that time he joined U.lJ..v'..92. He stated he was working at e old
Sangamon line in 1932, when the P.M.A. was organized and that he joined
the P.hi.A. only to hold his job at this mine. He stated his memory was
bad but recalled that he has out of work for two or three years after he
joined P.H.A. He stated he went to work at liine "B" sometime prior to the
strike in 1937-. He said he thought tin strike was called because BJLA. ranted
to get rid of Iifii. He denied ever talking to any oi the miners about
joining a union or of the U.ll.'.'!.A. trying to get him to change from P.l£.A.
when the new U.1!.FLA. Local was formed. He did say though, he Joined
U.hI.'.A. shortly after the mine opened so he could hold his job. He could
not recall signing any petitions of either union at any time. It should be
noted here that he later said he could not recall anything about the strike
or any other strike at Kine "T?" at which time he also refused to talk to
agents as he said he was not on trial and if agents wished to talk to him
they could arrest him. Ho said he did not like any unions and they were
all "rackets" and were om:-ated only for the officials.
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Re: JO!-ll L. LEWIS, ETLL.
WITH
. Einterviewed at his residence,
Springfield, Illinois, on
8-H
l V was born
: his citizenscame
He advised he had record
He is presently employed _Qreek_1line I4. mderstands
English fairly sell but has di_!_!io1_1_1ty in -a good
memory and thinks coherently and with the help translator
- he would make a ood witness. The following was ob-tained from h
"5P11gI1Blf1, I-Ll»
august 29, 191.3
-'1, L of Him field, 111-,_ make the following voluntary statement. andwhom I know to be Special Agents of ne
eau o Intestigation. I make it without fear of threat,
promises of any kind.of
Feder
force or
ham a-.35 Raine t9 1_;__-1 bocamella Elgllzn ml gprilngfield, Ill. in
'1 first started working in the mines in Springfield in -
and became a member of the United Mine Workers Union then. In '
about I started working at line '3', Epringfield.IIT nun-on _L "GU _ in
"In 1932 John L. Lewis came in, or the Um? came in, and held
an election to see whether we wanted to work mder a contract
with the oogny or not. Iie voted no but Lewis had the ballots
stolen and the U1.l'.J signed the contract. S0 the whole U151 local
decided to form a new union and the Progressive Miners of America
Union Local #51. was organised and I Joined that.
=Beiore no ohanged to iii. I neiier
anyone in the company bother anyone in this mien. hey seemed
to got along all right with the mien when it was UK-.' and when it
changed to PHI; in 1932 they still scemd to get along all right.
They never tried to got me to change one way or the other.noticed Eleho, Falcetti, or
"Between 1932 and 193'? I never noticed anyone from the company
try to change us to UM and there were no strikes, slowdowns or
closedovrns during that time.
F
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IIJTERVIE. HIIH "During the time from 1932 to 1937 I liked the PM
union very nuch. It was honest and a good mien. I
Cont have never held a position or office in any mien. '
The rest of the men seemed to like the P15» also.Re: J01-N L. LLVIS, E1 LL.
- "I remember tho lrriing trials being held back at that tine, but I
do not know anything about _thon-and never had any opinions about then.
"During this time I never noticed any Ulii picket lines and I never saw
anyone try to organize for UHF.
"In about 193'? I noticed Joe elbrgt-10 , Andy Schrelevious, Dominic
Pasquale, Pete Carter, Frank austin, To Slotch, Cotton an _an_i_'_as, JohnSirtout, the two Jacaways, GC->1g¬,¢1nd , IBow1 "M "" ,
and several others were working for UIIJ. tn March 1'7, 1937, at 2:00 o'clock
in the m>rning some one placed a bonb in front of my house on the step
and wrecked my h'.:'llSC pretty badly but no one was hurt._ But I do not know
did it. Just bcforc the bombing and until we went out on strike no
one ever tried to talk :1: into joining U151.
"Before May of 1937 I never noticed that any of the men I named above
were .';nir:[; with any company non and I never saw them at parties together.
.1bout 2 weeks bCfuI'E T-lay 12, 193?, about six or seven of the men I have
narad were kicked out of the PILL local because they were working for U151.
"tn my 12, 1937, I wont to work in Ldne B like always. Before we
-rent down the Pit Committee went in to Falcet 1 an told him that the
nan who had been I<£""R7.'5'c B cit oi Pm should not be allowed to go down
into the nine but Falcetti said they should. lie all went dmn to work
and the Eoard member went to Fblcetti to tell him that he should fire those
men who had been kicked .:92.1t of PHI But he said nu so the Board I!-ember
called the Plh president who said we should strike. I was down in the nine
all this tine, but no cars cane for my coal ea about three o'clock I walked
out and went on top because the driver told no we were out on strike. I
had not noticed any cars being loaded short.
H. couple of weeks after we wont on strike I rcnenber signing a
P121 petition and I think I signed another PI-In p-eti__t_ion a n-nth or so later.
But I never Signed a Um; petition. I signed the 1"-in petition to show I
wanted to any with Phi. and not go to 1111:. No force or threats or
promises were made to no to sign those PU. petitions.
Ho one tried to gct no to join the U131 in the sumcr of 193? but
during that summer I saw and heard that those non who had been kicked out of
P13. cane to all the hull$8S of PH» men and t-»1.d$hen if they wanted to an hack
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Re: JOIN L. LE'IS,E!.9292L v " I P
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' INTERVIEJ 92|I'1'i-I to I rk the had better sign with U167. They went to, whose name I cannot spell, and talked his
oin g Ullf.
"Sometime in Sept. 193'? I heard the Mine B' whistle blow one night
and some of the men told mo line B was going to open the next day. 80
I went out to Qne B next da "Uotz| the conpany would: t let any one in.15.nal1y, hoso name I cannot spell,
talked with Fa cetti - ter ce 1 no e us work and Faicetti said
the company had a contract with Um and we coulch t go down to work mlesa
we signed with UIM. So none of us went down except about '25 UH! men and -
we went home. The next day we went
to work so we started a picket lino
in the picket line all the time. {Joback to the mine but none of the U551 came
which lasted for about 56 days and Ines
had no one helping us picket except Just
our PHI. local, and a couple of days before Thanksgiving in 1937 the U. S.
ilarshali told us we had to get out,so we did. _
"I do not remember going beck to try to work in Mine B' until
rev. 1939. I remember voting in an election held by the National labor
Relations Board a month or so after Thanksgiving of 1939 when the PIE. beat
the
in Nov.
to open
Jerking
was all404 to 35. ~
"No one tried to get no to Join UH. before I went back to work
1939. In November of 1939 I got a letter that the mine was going
and I should cone back to work S0 I went. In 1937 I had bOC'n
on the south side of Mine §3 but when T 1-rent back in 1939 the work
on the west side. I did not notice there had been any fires or many
caves and it did not look to me like the-re had been any.
"lifter went back to work in 1939 the Umi tried to organize down in.
L'd=":e B. was one of the Uht. who would come down to me
three or four imos ;.r and call me a Progressive son oi a bitch and said
1: 1 wanted to keep my job 1 ma 1-,.! Join the ow. _said he would
kill me if I dldn t join ULL».
W35"me. day, about four or five months after Rvn, 1939, after 92-
had bothered me so much I went to Oscar Ialcetti and told him t
doing. Falcotti said I had the right to chose any union I wanted
was brought up before the Pitt Committee of P~'.-. and he said I 92
I said he tried to organize for UM! But the next morning 'when I was on nw way to work, Bowling Green t drove up and H
d In h ll H"In askc new-ttehe Ihadbcon o". .esaidifIdidntkce mouthshut hold knock zrxy brains out. ..l1en I got to work that morning &
naked me how I liked my friend Bowling Green." _
--..--.,
-390-
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the Mine I3
C One ufthese'92
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Re: .101-m 1.. LB-rxs, er .'.L.
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this time, in 1940, men would come to
and work a couple of weeks and than leave.
fellows Just 2. mnth or so bef-are the NLRB 'INTERVIEJ JTH "During
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electien in 1941 tried t-u get me to join Ulii. He cane up tu ne while I
was working in Mine BI and said 'Let me put this button 0n-yuu.' It wasa ma; button. gum 15 days bCf~>I'O the NLRB election in 194.1, Q
came to me and asked nu if I was going to join U355. He sai
est day tn sign. itbuut this time I -1. a let of FHA men get beatup by U15. men. One o£_them was* who jwas beat up, another
was an old man about cars l1 c we _ told m-»~»»- M.- n -_- 1:. . rcver saw Wu! a a h did was t a out Uh In abeut Feb 1941,
the NLRB held an electim which U11. won. I voted in that electiun but no
one threatened me in any way. I went to vnte but I had changed to U12; be-
cause I didn't 1..-ant to lose my jnb, and befnre the election the U15. local
had a meeting and we all went from the meeting tn vote. At this meeting
they tdld us everbldy go uv:r and v =te Uli. and ever,/thing would be all right.
There were abuut 200 Ur nun: 1-en there. I think the election was fair.
"I changed bu U-=£-I the last day they let me. 'Cudge' csu-.0 tv me that
day and I signc-. because I didn't want bu get beat up EEG I '1':entcd to have
By J~'b0 -
This statement uf eight pages has been read tn me by .".geni-.mc'
it is true and correct to the best of my imuwlcdge. _
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Age-nta, FOB!!!
Special ggent - F.B.I."'r.i1tnes ses
-391-
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"Q INTE'RVIE'1' H The following investi ation was conducted by S ml I»-=@~==st Spring ie , .L linois on :n:.gusi ~-- A! -- - *:'~ i , J AW 1|-- -1-in 1; ~ s s -1:* -an-r " - _" 1* A
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Re: mm L. LEWIS, er at
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1 , '31, 1943.
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if _7r " _31 . At f:'.eld, Illinois, phone?l _ Agents interviewed in the presence of his v. e L and daughter, and he advised he has never been arrested in his life.
ii It was noted that he is an illiterate person of foreign birth
and he had difficulty in understanding the questions and answering them
7 and he was assisted by his wife and daughter. He was cooperative and
appeared sincere and it is not believed he would make a good witness
unless his testimony is necessary.I
He furnished ngents with a signed statement which he initialed
and signed and xhich is set out as follows:
"Springfield, I11
_ august 31, 1943
hereby give! to rmqlwho are known to me to be Spec. eat.-s
. ' m . n 6 or p ses have been I was bor
I came to the U.S. in became a c
I first joined a mine ~
I transfered this to U.S. at Mine "B" about -Qand worked there ll Hay 1937 as a coal-digger. From he
the UJLW. had no trouble with Elshoff so far as I know. hhen the
union swung over to the P.H.A. I went over then too. I felt conditions
were twice e good under P.I.{.A. as U.H.Y|'. I Event over because I wanted
to nobody made me.NBS
"From 1932 to 1937 there was no trouble that I know of. Everything:
was ok in the P.I!.ia. union up until about 2 or 3 weeks before the strike.
he far as I know the P.1i.!.. officials were all right, no force was used
to run. the union and if a miner had something to say it was ok. lfhile
I was in the Progressives I attended one or two meetings a month.
"I dent know anything about the men who were convicted for the
bombings. I dont think the .P.H.A. officials were doing anything wrong
with our money.
"I dent: know about any trouble being caused the P.H.1.. by the
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RE: JOHN L. LEWIS, ET AL
IN T ERVI EH -""Ig_
CORT-lY1LlbZ¢/ 197D
U.1.;,.'I. I never new them give out any literature
or anything. .About 2 or 3 weeks before the mine
closed there were about 25 men who would start
talking about which union the men should join.
I never heard anything about any parties given the U.HJW. officials by
ELSE-OFF ..
"At the time the contract ran out in 1937, I did not hear
anything about the kind of agreement they reached for us to work under.
A member of our local board told us at one meeting that when en agresmet
wns reached we would get beck pay for any increase we got. Noboy
seemed to be mad about this egreanent. We heard nothing from the manage-
ment as to the kind of agreement made.
nI attended the meeting st which the 5 so-celled spies were
expelled from P.M.A. I can't tell new what happened it is too long ago.
On the day of the strike the men were provoked because the Co. let the
5 expelled men go back to work. There was no talk of striking because
of pay.
I dont remember anything about cars being loaded short the
day of the strike.
"I dont remember signing any petition for either U.H.W. or
P.M.A._if I had signed any it would have been P.M.A.
I heard of the forming of the U.H.W. local in Jul
I was not contacted to join this as I had made it known that
join. I dont remember anything unusual happening during the
1957.. 1937,
I wouldn't
summer of
I returned to the mine when they tried to open it in 1937.
The Progressives didn't go to work that day because Folscetti didn't
want the Progressives. As I remember the U.M.W. men went out for 2
or 5 days. The Progressives then said if we dont go to work nobody
is going and the
most of the time
to go and it was
men came out butU.M.W. men stayed in the
we were there to protect
all per.cef'u1. Eiome
I didnt see than.
mnrshell came and told us to leave.
except once to the wash-house to get
I voted for P.M.A. at the
this of my own free will. It lookedoffice. I was out at the mine
our jobs. Ho one forced me
said that sme cnrloeds of U..W.
I Ins not there the night the
I never went beck to the mine
my pet-olothel.
first N.R.L.B. election I did
to me to be a good election.
393 -
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Re: JOHN L. [F318, ET LL _
i<»?c../
TERVI £YII'IH T-hen the mine opened in 1939, I I9;=.d abojsz is
in the peperm I dont remember ge-'..'n*r".; :-. ...=.*."l:-arr
continued ' I just went out to'§-eTnl;y c1othar', I _.' too s are
still there. I wold not work 1vi'J': "sI.e U,-u-in
if I didn't haw any job. I started in 1938 in another 1-.1...-. an; 1.-ea
not interested in the job at iine B. -
1 _________........,
- - .;!i$.= merber I work in Panther Cree: mica
Nobody ever talked to me about joining the U.I'.'"-Z. -1:h.~".y dial
I chased them away."I have had read to me
I re er ' 'statement and it the truth as . . an 1 .=.ue1c-re ';:._{_:l'.-J".pf
it and initialin Teen page thereof-
vsc. Paul Ilinn. Signed!ml Springfield, . .
pee. 15 . , . . Aug. 31, 1943
lelilwatakee, Wis-!"
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RE: JOHN L. LBYI5, HILL
1.o.1¢/ lo
INTER WITH The follewin investi olticn Ins conducted by Specialq!Ii!Iii Md qzlh ~= Wfield, I no e, on gust 30, 45.
mentioned hereinafter, agents interviewed _
advised that he was arrested once some years
vorce proceeding but has never been arrested on
a criminal charge. . "
It was observed tho appeared to have more intelligence
than the average miner and he seemed to have n. very retentive mmory| he
secsned to knot ihnt the nine trouble was ell about. He speaks English very
well and is understandable. He was very cooperative and seid that he would
appear in court if it were necessary for him to do so. It is believed that
he will make a good witness. '
.-. ._. .. __ _ __. _ . __. __.. _ .___ _ _ ____ -_ zurmsnee agents with the fella-Wing sigzefl statement:
L
Pr G 1 0 Is
. August 30, 1943. j
' I, B rin
field I11. on no ing this free one vo un ry s o omen or_nd who are blown to me to be Special Agents o -
__,.>-| n....___.. .. __..-.. .=...._..l..... n 5 'n........+_.....+ .-0 3....-4.... I1.-. +1.u1¢..J, uuu ut...u on uvununbuunuu we 1 Ivy»; umuuv ua vuuv-I-uve Iv v
premises have been made me.
I was born and cane to the United Btetes
on and became a citizen of or can n I started at Nine B inn- on still there and I on a coal digger rm tinbeman. In Q1oined United Mine Horkers "and I also had e cardfrom the o country.
I never have held any union o ice. The union runs alright prior to 1932
when UH? was there, and it was a pretty good local e that time. I felt
pretty bad when John Lewis =:.nto-'1 us to take the out took in 3.952 or see
The trouble started ever some one stealing some ballots--I heard that. That
was why the non changed over to FHA. I thought it was alright when the men
changed over to PEA from U115? and I wont over because the res did. HM Of-e
ficials and the management got along elri ht prior to the time the mine closed
down. I don't know if Elshoff preferrFri cne union over another then. in one
talleed to no before the strike to turn over to Ul again. Local 54 settled
all matters ulri t with Kine B officials and there was no trouble that I'
lcnow of. I felt satisfied"v?i 't:_h'_PlIA that the officials were doing right by
as nine:-s end I lead no complaints to no-ice at ell. The non in loo-ol 54 bed
their say in all matters and we voted on matters and no certain men run it
by thenselvesond no one forced us to do things. I attended quite tl_-{EN FHA
meetings then. In regard to the PEA non being convicted for the bombings I
did not. lqwur anything about ii. as I never paid much .l7'bol:t-i'.'921l to thtla. The
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C O P
RE: JOHN L. LBYIS, I-'1 AL
L9 /I Q/ J /2 D
WITH PLEA officials gave us a black and white report as to
what they did with the money and I never suspected than
Cont? oi being crooked. men never picketed iiine B nor did '
they give out literature prior to the time the mine closed.
I don't know oi any persons spying for URN prior to the time the nine closed.
I don't know about any parties bein given by Elshof! or UB1 men. After thecontract expired I heard thati had made a temporary contract with Els-
hoff and we were supposed to gm pay but I never got any pay. The FHA
was doing alright by us miners then. Just before the mine closed there was
no trouble over the wages that I know of and everything seemed to be aJ.rig1_:_t_.
Ho one ever bothered me than to join over to UHF. I don't know anything
about the H-EA officials and the management fight ng over the wage eentract.8
"1 did not attend the meeting the night before the strike but I
recall that the Trial Committee had voted to oust 5 men and at that meeting
I hoard that the non voted to throw out these 5 nen. egular lleotings were
on second and fourth Fridays and I don't know if this was a regular meeting
ori a special one. There was no talk of wages around the nine on the day it
closed down. Re one said that we would not got e contract between PLEA and
Mine B. I hoard that the Cecunittee told FALCETTI several times to get rid
oi those 5 nee but they would not kick than out. On the morning of the 8'C1"ZIk-.2
there was no trouble there that I recall of. In Box 3 and 4 and others I
heard that some cars were being loaded short that day and later that day I
also saw some cars that were loaded short. I don't know why the cars were
being loaded short that day. Down below nobody knew there was going to be
a strike. About 14 or 15 minutes before -uitirr time we were eall& out andwe wore told the nine was to be shut down. I heard end Elshoff were
arguing about those 5 men and that is supposed to be why e strilco was called.
Right after Hine B closed I signed a Hit. petition. I was not forced to sign
that at all. I don't recall what they said about it anymore. I signed it on
the road outside the mine there. I never signed any UHW petition that summer
but I heard there was one around but no one came to me with it. Later on I
sigzed another PEA petition as they wanted to know if I still was PEA and I
was and no one forced me to sign it. I believe I signed tint at a meeting.
I heard that U15! eta:-ted a loeel that signer and that men were around but none
came to see me. llothing'unusual I-nppened during sunaer of 1957 tint I'k:aow
oi. During fall of 1937, on a $und:.~.y, I was in a saloon near l4th $t., and
Tony Plotch came in and said the mine was going to be reopened and tint I
had"5etter be there. That was the first I knew oi it. PEA did not have any
meeting to decide what they would do if the mine were Opened by 'J'sTw|'. I toe:
dinn bcktand t ttolli Bthe I: rni t twerkbt my erue wenou _n_e___ nexnongogoo uFalcetti told us 1; he wanted so mm men to go down mu» the nine. Q said to Falcetti he could give him 100 Pm but e
di n wan us. alcetti told us that we would have to be UHW men to 51_o down.
ll or 12 U157 non go down into the nine and before they had been Pinen.
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RE: JOIN L. LBIIS, 1'1 LL '
b!c./I I/QQD
IHTERVIHI WITH cause of the picketing out there for rereril n.-n:'o-.. IW went home twice a week but I was there on the strike .~.cs--
cont nucd of the time. The non out there Ieru from Loco] 5% and
there were no outsiders brot in to help us. We just set
around, played ball and cards and just watched the property at lline B. HJA
officials did not force us to go out there and we were there to protect our
jobs there. While IO were there no one bothered us and U1!-T did not canoe
any trouble end the sit down strike was very quiet and peaceful. I was there
when the U. 5. llarehall told us to leave. He read something and acid we had
better leave and we alY left and there was no trouble at all regarding ler.-.r-
ing. - -'
"1 don't recall if'I went out to llj,;1g_j_later again when it wowsupposed to reopen. Oh;%9s, I remember that in some chilly weather I wasat Pl-U. office and lawye -, ahl and l.ir792_Burke acid something about then going
out to take the mules out of Hino B. I went out there but nobody went mo
than and I went hone again. I just don't know what the reason was why no
one went to "work.
I voted for Pl-IA at the NLRB election at the Armory in Bpri.ng£ic1c'.,
I11. 404 went for PW. and 25 for U167. That was en honest election. I "I'L-
not forced to vote by anyone and I voted the my I want to. It was by coo.-.-ct
ballot and no strong arm methods were used.
I don't know why FHA and Elshoff could not sign a contract r~.~.': .c-r
'PI.iA won the election. I got a registered letter from Elshofi telling me 1
had to be back in 10 days in order to get my job back. I figured I would get
paid the regular scale wage and no one told me whet wages we were to got.
Nothing; was said about e contract that I know of." After the mi.ne'c;:ermd
B_e__hnn-non told ue in the Redm:1n'lI hell on Monroe st... in $p1'ir';fie1d, I-11.,
' Q" that if we joined to UM! that they could get u contract ir. -1- weeks. Bony of
theo1dPl.IAe.m'bkIh6th *"*' 1 e e ac n e mine opened. el..e_ ..o my buddy
in the nine and asked hl1"l if I was oing to sign o my bend, told hm um I me said ti'~.~.i*iglii r92 _ .
I an sure that FHA did not do it. I also cow PHDNETIC! on the
street and he said he had a fight at the mi e one y. He was bleeding and
had just come from the mine and he was on hie way to PHI. office to report
it. Ho one ever threatened me to join over. I was working canpcny work so
no one bothered no then. There was a dead line 0! going over to UHW by Jun-
uary 16 , 1941 and I finally signed up and then next month NLRB had another
election at the Jsmory. I had to I151: up otherwise I would not have a job.
sane one had marked on a pit car with chalk that after January 16, 1941 there
Would be no more FHA and I believed that and I knew that things might happen
so I ligned up with U157. r0 wa e our e ec e the matter. I had hc..rd thrt phonetic! had been in the h0epitn 1nd beer beaten up and
92
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sBE: JOHN L. LEWIS, ETLL "
INTERV * WITH "During summer of 1940 I never signed any card for Elli* but an Jan. 1941 I paid dues to Pm. When I went beck ,
ccntinu to work in 1939 at i signed some card showing that
1 was mu with PIM.
NLRB had another election at the Amory in Springfield, 111., and
eltho I was with UHW then I still signed Pm es I liked that local and I had
been satisfied and they had e nice bunch of men. Io one told no to vote that
way md no force was used and it ms by secret ballot and was an honest elec-
tion. There had been many new UHF? men at the nine and I also think that many
PIA voted for mm because --they were afraid that the nine would be cloned a-
zein as I heard some gossip about that. Box 4 was cleaned up in two days.
Bo: 5 took e. little longer es it had e little squeeze in it. Box 2 and 9 _
were never reopened. I don't lmow of any fire at 5-Hne B in 1939. I know Hal-
cow but I don't know of him talking about money at any meeting.
"This 1.. about .11 I can think of in connection with this trike and
I had to go to work for WPA then. 4
' "1 have had Agentqreed this 2 page statement to me and it in
true and correct and I have signs it of my own free I111.
/=/WITNE '
lee. Agent !.!.I. llilm, Hie!
!peoic.l Agent, !|.B.I.,
St. Paul, liinn. -
Springfield, Ill.
Lug. 50, 1945
-398-
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Re: Joe! 1.. 1.2:-.13, er AL
1:9?a
llinois, was join
Auvuet 51, 19415, by Bpeeial agents
is a naturalized citizen whI §
union matterso Ho executed the following written statement:
92" ' Springfield, Illinois '
92 if August 31, 1945
k92e * 1,.-.1 .m+..- wu.. . -........... _,r TQ {g O 1» spool o era Bureau or Inves go. on, .S. Department of Justice-
"1 reside at s rin mom,
t the , and I was born on
arrived n t e ' s n ecame e n
at4ll
V.--.1 .
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¥-_92'.8!. -_92er .;--
,.
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on.-- if"
oaidence on
and
rk
l'|'.n§'.nr1nY92'Q-. 4'.n w v-.. 92I92-ea. .--o .- -..zrmznvxe-2 1:1:-B Springfield,
tly terviewe a. s r
o is no onger we -
ing nes. was cooperative and sincere, but had little information
concerning the matter under inquiry as he was not active or interested in
Agents of the
Illinois, at
and I
. . citizen
' "I ted 1'10:-ki:-920 in mine§
9 '1
- which time I came to Springriel , inoiso_and joine ited Kine 3-ogkers of ' ca re!er:-one groin oftas the ILTE. T s operated by the I worloed there*"<="i * '6!
Upon my arrival in Springfield, I started working in tlurftizens
Coal Mine, near Springfield which is called 11ine_f__at the present time. I
started working
I went to work in Kine B as a INTI member
ice, referred to hereinafter as the Progres sive l1in§_;:_s___ '
*5?
.15.: g92 _- ,1-o';_=.
it-
L» .at this mine as a member of 111.5}? and remained there until
and worked about _ In '- h__ there unoii Hey lo, 1931', when the -nine shut deen,
"1 never held an office in a mine union and only went to mineunion meetings about once every three months. I Joined the we in -
and I remained a member of that union until September, 1932, when the
PLEA, was of Amer
formed. I joined the Pl-IA because the majority did and not because anyone
threatened me. I don't lcnow anything about the reduction in the wage scale
in 1932. I don't know if I voted or not on the 2.-age so-ale .-nattero I heard
the ballot box was stolen, but I em not know why it was stolen, or who am
"I did not take any active part in organizing the HM. and only
attended their meetings about once in three month-Io I thought this was a
good union and the leaders were capable men. I'm speaking of the PLEA now-
I remained a member of PI-id until February 21, 1941 when Nine B signed up
-399-
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E: LI 1.3518, m '
is 1!
INTERVIEFK T with the UHF. I remained I. mmber Of the HEW until I
quit mains <>==_continued '
As far as I know, relations between Elshoff and the
ilk!-'1' at line B were good prior to 1932. I don't know which union Elsho or
Falcetti favored ii any as I did not hear them talk about uniotl
In the Spring of 1937 a group of men having cards were org-
anizing for Ul|Tl'. I knew the following men: Dog_1g1_i_c__,'Eas_quale, Pete__§s.r_ter,Frank Ilustin, Tony Plotch, Johrfi/Cotton, John Sirtout, Goo_mg__g_aga1e.y,
Emory Jacavray, Charles Bohannon, James Hale. In the Spring of 1937 these
above mentioned men were trying to get the men to sign up with the INTI and
I saw two fights by the wash house, but I stayed away because I did not want
to get in trouble. I do not know who the men were as it was dark. I heard
the fight was over union matters because they would not join the UB3 and
these Pill. men never came back to the mine. I was never threatened either
1..-- JUL.-. 'I1 "" .._ A-L_ 12!! 9,.-. -_.-.I l -.-.-. -...-L -I-1-AA J... JI_ $1-..-. III}? -IL A-Lin. -I-I-..-.Hy UIIU Udil U DIE IIHJL L-RFD L11 J WEI-B ILUB G-DLULI BU JUJ-ll UIIU Ull-II H U-ll-L. 92lJnu$l-
In Hay, 1937, I heard some men had been expelled from the ma
'becauso they were acting as organizers for UIIW, but I do not know that
names. The last day the mine worked, in Hay, 1937, I loaded the coal cars
short, "because e PU; nan named John §c__}me_:i_Lder told the miner to do so while
we were down in the mine. I loaded the cars short, but no one told me why
we loaded them short, and I did not ask. I always did what the Union told
me to do as I did not want any trouble, however, no one threatened no when
T wnn +.-11! Fr! 'Ir92nrl -Ln-+ -
"E1sho!'1 would not sign a contract with PILL in 193'! and there was
pleantl of men to work. I think Elshoff liked the TIMI better than the P!-UL
because later he gave the UMTF a contract, but I don't know why he favored
the UMW.
Liter the shutdown at Mine B in Hay} 1937, I was in the picket
line oi PEA at that mine about two weeks at the most. From Hay 1937 to
Nvnmhnr TQKQ T R-Er nndt Barre: 9'#rn'lns- urn!-Ir and Hill nn 0.3 bagk ta-----in--u . .1-ii -. 92.-..-.u novw Ilnnva-I avb---es --van. an-0l92.Q um. av-v b
mine after I finished about two weeks picketing, until the mine re-opened
in November, 1939. _
"In November, 1939, when I went back to Mine B, I was still a
member of HIA and no one asked me to join the U55? until just before the
second NLRB election in February, 1941. Just before this election, Tony
Plotch, who was a member of UH-T and a check weighman at Lline B, talked tome at the mine. Tony said, Q/ou might as well-join U151 as all the
1'1 rest have. Low talked to no _-- _ Iriendly nay Qd did not threaten l!._Qe
He gave a I35? card to phonetic! who was a member of the Uk,
I
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R9: Jml 1» 1E:'II3| ET LL
1¢7c_/ 5'25 t -
INTERVIEW TTITH signed it voluntarily and gave it back to him.
!continue!l I liked the FHA union best, because it was more émmw
--"ml-in -Q G-Lana Lani - Q-Anal na-we-I§»#1;g92 In 4-1;; nu-Inn 1-92-ank Q U119 ALB!-A YBEHHL Y 9?? J Ell M
helped make conditions in the mine better. The UHF had a oomittee, but
it was not as good. The FHA did not beat up UHW'men to get them to join-
PNA, but the HEW organizers best up miners to get them to join the UB3-
1|I have had his statement, consisting of two pages reed to no
by and it contains the truth to the best of
my knowledge.
:1
92'
=1'===@==¢==1= _
Special agent, FBI.
Spocial hgent, FBI.l '
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B-_E: L, L-BT18, BE AL
' L¢>7<~_/ Amp
i .= Q1 *; % mnw an mm Q $pl1t15f101d, I11-}? inois, was inter ewoo at his heme on »u s 1943,:3 7 by Special Agents and Q _was cooperative, but because of his iimi e .-:n:.v edge i
not believe he would make an effective witness. Be clained to have no crin-
1110.1 record -
The following is the signed statement of
"5pring:l'ield, Illinois
August 31, 1943
up ta 04* -u t "I make the followinb velun ry ..-.a :.on~.n toF an , when I know to be Bpecinl Agents of the
"-'~' r oderal Bureau of ves iga on, of my own free will, with no threats or
promises made.
1 was born I rst joined
on the United ll no ' or ere in oine c ressive I-Iino Work e uni , i I: e ___;g -
ers in 1952 whi e I was working; at Pa n_e £43" Iat line B inh and an employed there at the present time.
Before
no trouble of any kind at the nine.
end hod no doubts in eds ship1937, Iran the time I become employed at Mine _§,__I knew of
was entirely satisfied as to the Pl-TA,_
t ~ r FAA union. _
"Before the strike, in 1931, at lline B, I knew of no activity on
part of Um? men in line B. I was not contacted by any U25? nan myself,
did not know of anyone who was. '
the
and
"I am not know of any meeting; of the PEA heldthe night before
the strike. I do not know if there wns n meeting or not, for I never heard
anything about it. On the day of the strike , we were called out cf -she nine,
and were told that there was s strike, I do not rgber who told no that
e strike had been called. I don't remember hearing anything about why the
strike started that day in Hey of 1937- I didn't hear anything; about there
being UJLW. spies in the mine, causing; the strike, but I do know that the
strike was not celled because of wages. I do not knew the cause of the strike.
I know that the non were satisfied with the PJl.h. and the efforts the PJLA.
ms making; to settle the wage question. '
"1 dc not remember signing s PJLA. petition in the summer of 195?.
I don't ranenber signing any petitions et'el'1'in the summer of 195 7-
"In the sunmsr of 1937, '1ONY_P_L-DICK and COTTON ANAN_I_.}.S cane to my
home and asked me to join the UJLW. I told than I wouldn't join unless I
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RE: JOHI L. LEITIS, H H-
IIITERVIBV F. had to, and I didn't have to at that tine. Io one else .
contacted me, and I was not threatened in any way by
Tcontinueo! any-one to join the U.11JI'. in tne. t iwnm'""ei.
"1 don't ranember whether I got a notice that the nine was to be
re-opened in September of 1937. I remember that I did go on the picket line
in the fell oi 193?. Ho one forced mo to 5: on the picket line, but I just
wentbecause a lot of the men did. I don't know the purpose cf the picket
lino, but I believe it was to keep all the men frm work.'in;;, both U.H."iI»
and P.l.I.A. It seen: to me that the injunction gotten by the mmgement was
directed against the P.l1.I.., because the management favored the U-L1-57. The
can-92:;_.ln--1 -wt-U-eo92~1¢; -<l-nzul-an than by-one Wit. Q1 EH lJ.U¢Au-L iL»iJU,92.b nvu. ya; rune II-J11 4. nu ell 04¢.»-u bvv we-v----. .1... --_---'
in the P.M.11., and lost cut. QOTTON I.NAN1liS, l_'QNY_ljL§J_TG§I and JiH!RB|f SCHREIF
EY_I§j15._were the ones who ran for oice and got'licked, anH were the leaders
of the trouble. I don't know anything specific, but I just have the feeling
that the above named were shown favors by the management.
"In December of 1937, I voted in the election at the state arsenal-
I voted for the PIMJL" because I was thoroughly satisfied with the IHHJ»
From the time of that election until the mine re-opened, I was not contacted
by anyone in attempts to sway me in my choice of unions.
A "In the fall of 1939, I received a notice from the management of
Hine B, telling; ne to report to work, that my old job was open.
"'A1"ter I returned to wrrk, it seemed to me that the mamgenent
favored the U.l.I.W. non in the nine. After I began work, a man cane to me
in the mine and told me I had better sign with the U.H.iI'., because the UJI-W.
was going to get a majority in the nine, and unless a mm was Udldf. he would
lcee his job. I do not lcnovr the name of this man, but he was a big nan. He
was in the nine, but I never raw him doing any work in the mine. At the
time he told me that all but twelve men had joined the U.ll.'ff., and I was one
of the twelve. This was just before the election of 1941- He never threat-
ened no in any way.
"'1 joined the U.l.I.?I. just before the election, because, on account
of my age, I couldn't get c. job in another mine and I felt I had to join
U.H.v1'. to keep my job at Milne B. At the election, I voted P.M.A., in spite
of being, n nmnber of U.H..'J., because I felt it was the best union. I didn't
join. TTJ.i.aT. because I wanted to, but because I had to to keep my job. 1'
think that I'.H..A. is the best union, and would like to see it in the mine at
the present time.
"Befcre the election I did not see or hear of any violence on the
part of either union to influence the election oi February, 1941. '
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RE: JOHN L. LEWIS, ET AL
b . I
INTERVIEW'WITH I recall a fire in box 4 after the mine opened, but,
if I remember correctly that happened in 1942. I 'Lao:-1!1| nus! don't know the extent 0; the cost, but the box is still
""-ed down.
"I have read the foregoing, consisting of npproxirntely four and
one quarter pages and state it is true to the best of k:now;ed5e.
/vi t
wrmzssss 1 '
Special hgents, F.B.I.
Springfield, I11.
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Re: JOIN L; LEJIS, ET AL; A71
§ mrmvm: nrrn 92 _ Springfie , nois, was 1 owed on 52;,-':.:nbc: '1, 'Q i1943 at his home by Special Lgents
is a self-educated young man o speaks clearly and 'pre-
eise y. He claimed not to have much interest in mion activities a.::d he
also claimed to have no criminal record. The following statement was pre-
pared hrut_ declined to Big; it. Z
' "Springfield, Ill.
September 1, 1943
make the following voluntary statement
whom I know to be Special
ion, of my own free
will, with no threats or promises made to ne. -
"I presently live at I, Springfield, Illinois,. I was born
joined a mine mien 0
P.M.n. on becoming employed at
Eline B. I held an official position in any mion. _Shox-tly
after the strike of my 1937, I joined the U.!{.'$I'., and an a member of
that mien at the present time.I
"I don't remember any P.!-.-I,£.. meeting the night before the strike,
and don't know anything about the meeting, or the reason therefore.
On the day of the strike, the men were jut standing aromd, without
doing any-thing, I don't know the reason for the strike, how it was
called, or anything about it.
"Shortly after the U.l£.-1. formed a local chapter for Nine B, I signed
a membership card for the U.H.'2J. The reason for sq; joining the U.1[.'5f.
was because my father had been a member for years, and liked the UJIJT.
I was willing to go along with him, and that is the reason I joined.
"In the fall of 1937, I saw in the paper that the nine . was
to be reopened. I was working in Springfield, and didt go back to
the mine at that time. In fact, I didn't go near the nine from the day
of the strike mtil I returned to work in November of 1939. In the
fall of 193'? when the Progressives picketed the mine , I believe that
the management was correct in getting the injunction to keep the
picketers off his property.
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C ' O
R6! JOIN L. LE-JIS, E1 L
L7¢~ b7D
I!1TERVIE»J'-JITH "In the election of December, 1937; I voi-ed
"'-"'-""'i_"i"-"" for 'LI.i-E.'4i., because I was a member of that us.-L 2-.Contains!
to work, but I didn't see
to have been beat up down
culars. 1 worked on top,
down in the mine.
ll!-';-G1- Q k.-.- 92q.--M-0 -92LJJJAL-Iv v92::L.ulu.Lu5 u"I remember hearing of some violence at the mine after we :'e'.=..1r.:e.i
any myself: I saw one fellow who was sup_r.~--=c,-;!
in the mine, but I don't know of any of ti-.~. p'z:t-i-
and have no knowledge of anything that 1-re1.t. co.
.-u TI II T: T |I92u92Ir; n§§nnJ"Qr .|'9211';|'.'" 92 PPI1U Uoollg Git; D-UU92¢Jl92-IGL1 l*U'92-1 -92-'
nut;-v-9292.:92-u $nu-;uuc:3 u
mien meetings. I remember seeing in the I18WSp&p¬I that Jack GJ.asgo".' 1"-as
expelled from the U.!-1.6., but I don't remember the particuiars .:-:13 1
don 't remember attending any meeting at which this matter was cL'Ler:u.'§s='.".
- "I have read the foregoing, consisting of slightly o er two page.-~;
and state that it IS true to the best of mgr recollection.
declined to sign this tatement although he
stated t-..-_.; ever}, e.:l!.g cont-a.ir.ed in it was the truth!;
;;gr_.'Ht-S,
Springfield, Ill."
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R8: JUN L. LEWIS, E1 LL. '. *7 , mo
7 |./ '
INT VIE? WITH a Springfield! Illinois, was !!B1'V16'l92'8d at his
home on August 31 191.3. by 3P°cial Agents and
makes a very good appearance and speaks verygood E-ngliSh,l1 E a s!ight-accent. He gave his informtim ;
freely and voluntarily to the extent of his knowledge. It is believed
that he would make a very good witness. He to have no crimiruil
o=vring
E. ' L -9 " "Springfield, Ill. .
#; [H
Vaugust 31, 1943
"I, make the following volmtary statement
_to =. I Pros: to be SpecialA enllo! Ego !!dez-5 geaul 0! mestigatiun of my own free Ewill, with no force or duress used, and no promises made me.
S ringfield, Ill.
and came to
2 a netur ize citizen in
"I joined the United Mine iorlcers in Springfield in and
was a member of such union mtil 1932 when I joined the Progr_es_s__5_.y_e_
ne Workers of America. I remained e member of this union mtil
1941, when I rejoined the U.2I.¥i., when they signed a closed shop"
agreement with the management of Mine B. Aat live
I was born
the United
federal court,
"I began work at }.1ine__B in - and worked there mtil 19-£2,with the exception of the time we were on strike.
"I did not take an active pad. in organizing the P.I-.5. I 311181-
went along with the men. After its organization I attended several of the
meetings. I was very well satisfied with the P.ll.A., for it was rm
by clean, honest men. The men running the P.H.A. tried to do what _
was right and best for the men, and always gave a full explanation of
all special assessments. The relations between the mion and the
management of Mine B, until 1937, were entirely satisfactory as far
as I know.
'1 do not know of any activity on the part of U.M.Ff. agitators prior
to the strike in 1937. I do know that no one tried to get me to join
the 11.11.11. before the strike. The night before the strike, in Hay of
1937. I remember attending o. union meeting. I don't remember how I
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Re: JOH~E 1.. mus, er AL. - _ ,
11='r1-"ngarrrnL0? ¢-/ .Je".7D . ~
knew about the meeting,as well as I remember, the meeting
had to do with some men who were kicked out of the P.11.i'L.
Continued!. for U.I.i.h. activity. I remember the following names .
as some of the men: DOIJINIC PASQUALE, PETE..CAR1ER, FRA1-IR AIBTIIN, T¬N_!__
PLOTCH, corms ismris, Jonifsmtour, onorzoi: mm s11o;_2YU_qic_.nmI, QHARLES
Bi;»HIdIh'£I. and JIHI.!l"_IikI.E. I remember that these men were mentioned at"that
meet'i:=ig. I a1so"re-memwr sore talk at the F.h.1-.. mating the night before
the strike about what would happen if the company dich't discharge the above
named men, but I don't remember what action was decided upon.
"D1 the day of the strike in Hay, 1937, the men went down into the
mine and loaded a few cars, some full, some only partly full. After a while,
the union called the men out of the mine, that is the P.M.J92. I don't re-
member how notice of the strike was sent down into the ndne. I don't re-
member why the men loaded the cars short, and can't really remember the
cause of the strike. I think the strike was called beiiause the P.I*.¬.1'i.
didn't want the above mentioned men to work in the mine, but I can't be sure
of it. I don '1: remember that any talk or dispute over wages entered into the
strike at all.
"I remember signing a P.M.a. petition shortly after the strike began,
but I don 't know what the petition was about. I know I signed only the one
petition, and know I signed none for IJ".M.J. I believe LL signed the P.Il.A.
petition at Frogressive Hall, but I don't remember anyone coming to the
house. No one 8-p,!I0¬1Ch8C1 mo that summer to sign a U.I£.3T. petition, or to
talk me into Joining U.ll."w.
"I received a notice from 1-:_g;_e,B management that the nine was to
reopen in Sept. of I937. I d::'t go out w the mne at that tim, and
didn t know anything about the picketing.
"In the election of December, 1937, I voted for P.z1.i. The majority
of the men were for it, I thought it was the best mien, and I didn't vent
to have anything to do with the U.H..I, -
In the fall of 1939, I got another notice from the EH10 B Uanage- ' .
ment that the mine would re-open. I appeared for work, and remained there
the U.H.'-I. one man, H talked to me quite a mt, and told me that,unless the U,;_;,-1, won We ne, 7 election, and unless we all Joined the U.!£.V. 92
the management would close down the mine, because they wouldn't work with
the P.!l.i.. I was never threatened or abused to join the U.1l.3=., and voted. for the P.I.{.A. in the election in 194.1, which the U.I~.i.'~i. won. I Joined 1 /if
92Ithe U.1!.'J. after the election, because I had to if I wanted to keep on work
ing at Iiine F. I 1
- 408 - '
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until 191,2, when I quit and got lgr-present job. From the time the ne - "92 92 reopened in 1939, mtil the election of 1941, which the U.Il.U. won, I was ~talked to by U.H.1i. men several times, and they tried to get me -to Join 92 Qt 1.:
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: I"IN'I":'2RVIEI .:IIi-E "I saw several P.1.!.A. men beaten. ne wasp A/1"Fm, and I can't remember the names of the o era. / '
ontinued . e men were beat up by Bohannon, Lensgl and Sirtogt,
some in the wash-house, and others outside the mine. The men were beat up
because they were members of the P.H.A., and wouldn '1: join the U.l.l.?'i'. I
don't remember any conversation or activity on the part of the Mine B
to inuence the toward Uillit d1.n'ing this periedi92
Inn hf! mkhf.up-.....b-..~-.-....
"I remember that, after the mine re-opened, in the fall of 1939,H got a Job in the mine as an air checker. There was no position
e ore e strike, and he spent almost all the time talking to the men
and trying to get them to join the U.1-£.n'. I have heard several of the
men say that he was paid by the U.ll.'-1., not the mine nanagement, but I
don t remember who said that, and I know nothing more about it.
"1 was entirely satisfied with the P=H=a= in every wayt In my mind,
it Fs much the better of the two mions. I only joined U.I£.U. because I
had to to keep my job.
"I have had this statement, consisting of approximately four and
one half pages, read to me and state that it is the truth to the best of
my knowledge.
/S-F4-
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Special gent, F.B-I.
Springfield, I11. "
92
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RB: JOHN L. LEYFIS, E1. LL J!
IIITZRVIE" '71 n Springfield,Illinois, was interv ewe one on A ust 31,194:5, by Special Agen nd ; ..
seemed to have only s. l ted know edge o ac iv ies
at _ine oceuse o is lack of interest in union activities and absence
from Mine B since 1937. For these reasons it is not believed that he would
make a valuable witness. Ho claimed to have no criminal record. -
7 ' K - Springfield, Ill.
E * ' August 51, 1945
J, x "I. mak in statement freely and
_ voluntarily to an who have identified
I ' _ a nts o e Federal uresu of Investi ation. themselves to me as Socei Age g
No threat or promises have been made to me to obtain this statement.
"I pmently rg Springfield. 111. I was
"I first joined a mine union the United Mine Ilorkers, about -or;-hile I was working for the Springfield, Ill-1
I s eyed in this union until I joined the Progressive no Yorkers of America
in 1932. I rejoined the U.3-1.17. when I was working in hiino A. I don't recall
the exact date.
"Prior to the strike in 1937 I recall hearing something about some
arguments and incidents ct Piine 2, but I don't recall whet they were about.
d 't ll th t v r tried to ersundeme to Prior to the strike I on reca :1 one e o pjoin the U.I1.-T. However, I do recall t one day told me
and my father, when he called at our house, 1 or was going to be
trouble at 2-lino B. Ee did not give any more information and because bothmy father and I were P.l!.A. men we paid no attention to . Everything
was going smoothly at Mine B. All of the minors seemed o e satisfied with
P.H..'1. I thought it was a good union, and that the leaders were trying to
do good for the miners.
"I went to some of the P..1~'!.A. meetings. As I recall, we had to
attend at least one meeting a. month. At those meetings everyone had the chance
to speak his piece. I don't recall any discussion at these meetings about
tho bombings that were going en about that time.
Some time before the strike in 193'! I heard smoothing about an '
argument between some of the drivers and I don't remember any
of the details, but as I recall he was su rqi@ a knife. I
don't lcn:>'n if he was said to be a spy for U.1E.I., or if there was any talk 92
about UJ1.-H. spies in the mine at that time.
-410-
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Re: JOH L. LETIS, ET AL L1 -L '7 <1.-/ 4&3 C2~£> .
INTERVIET TITH I don't recall anything about the P.H.A. meeting on the ._
night before the strike. I can't recall how the strike I_
con nue started in Hey 1937. It seems to me that there was some
eontroverey ehout some nen who were suppoeed to trying
to get members for U.H;H. from P.H.A. I don't remember if there was any talk
about these men having been discharged or fired. I think it was bee use of
the controversy about these men that the P.M.A. on the day of the strlie loaded
their coal cars with short weights. I think that the only reason for the
. strike was the trouble about these men. I don't recall any talk about wage
scales. ' '
After the strike started in 1951 1 went d lines ~ _
that time I have not been in Mine B. However, I d.e vo.e in the e-eetion tor
Kine B held in December 1937, and voted for P.E.A. because I thought the
majority of the miners wanted that union, and because I thought it Il B
good union.
_ Some time in February or E-larch 1938 I started to work in 1l_fgQ_,. I
stayed et that mine until u short time after U.M.T. obtained the bargaining _
contract for the miners there. In the election that was held for Mine A I
voted for U.H;I. because I wanted to save m job, and I thought that U.HJ$.
would Win the election. It really made no differenee to me which union won
the election. All I wanted was my job.
. "I have rend this etetenent consisting of this and one other typewritten
ooze end state that it is true to the best of m knowledge and recollection.-
<=1s====1>
' itness:
ed Special Agent, FBI sign !
si nod! ~ e
Springfield, I11.
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Re: Jon: L. mus, BI AL.1,!c/ 197D I L
nrrenv am 'Springeld,
I1 ois, was interviewed at eptember 1, 2.5 OHIO on
1943 by Special Agents an . This nunx speaks English with some ic y oi expression, and he can mderstand§ §92 English only when it is spoken slowly- He claimed to have no criminal
r.. XJ. record. The following statement was prepared but not signed by-
"épringfi eldi Ills
. - September 1, 1943
make the
vol
tified themsel oral Bureau of
Investigation. I30 threats or promises have been made to me to ob-
tain this statement,statement freely and
fwho have iden-
IIT nrgggntly 1'-551$-l_Q afi §prj_ngfi@l_¢1i 111:ism do
"I was born in
1.11I came to
ted states the
became n citizen of the i e
M first Poined a mine mien, the United iline Workers, in- in
I -stayed in this mien until I joined the Progressivelune |.¢_orlgg2_:7_:i___p_.§'_i;._:_;v.3_r'iea in 1936. ibout two or three months befc'E§"""""_""-
the election in February 1941 I rejoined the U_.ll.'-4. I never was en of-
ficer in any union.
"I went to 3 few meetings of the P.}.!.i»-., bL1b I dD'T- I'll!-EI11b91'
any talk about organizers for the UJL-I. _I don t know of any trouble
within P.I1..|.. or between the PJLA. nd the U.ll.i'I.
"I there was to be e netting on the night before the Strike
started but I did not go to the meeting. I don't remember how I knew
about this meeting.
"Cn the day the strike started in 193'? I saw everyone going out of
the mine, and I went along with the miners. I don't know any reasons
for the strike. I did hear some talk about getting back pay, but I
don't know ii this was the reason for the strike-
"I never signed e petition for e.ny mien in l93'?, and no OM
from the £1.11.-I. tried to get me to join the U.H.1i'.
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Re: Jom 1.. LBFIS, m 1.1..
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' '.-'II'H "I remember reading in the paper _
that the mine would reopen in the fall of
. e to the nine. In that fall Continued! 1937, and I w nt out
I got into the picket line, but I dont know why the picket line was put
up. I saw only iiine B men in the picket line.
' '1n the nine election of 1937 1 Voted for 1=.:.:.;.. because I
wanted to go along with the majority of the mners. It really made
no difference to me which mion had the mine contract. I only wanted
to work for my living.
"No one tried to get me to join U.E.!.'wF. mtil the mine reopened
in 1939. Before the mine reopened I received a letter from the company,
and was told when to report for work.
"1.iter I started to work aga1'.n, a man known as asked
mc how I would like to join the U.1.1..4'. I said that it - ference
to me to which union I belonged. V
"I signed with U.H.Ii. about 3 months before the election in
February 1941. I voted for U.M.--. because it seemed to me that most of the
miners wanted this union. also thought that I would have to join the
"To me one mion is just like any other. I have no preference
one way or the other. Jlobdz ever threatened me to make me join a union.
"This statement consistir of th' and one other typewritten pagehas been read to no b and 1 state um it is
true to the best of my roco ec ion - c ow c e.
declined to sign the above statement although
1 e everything contained in it was true!.
"5"hmcial gents, FB , Springfield, Ill."
.413-
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G - O
Re: JOHN L. LEWIS, ET AL
92r . lr92I92
i->/C/ 49'/_U
mm own - Sw1==sr1@1=1- I111=<=1»-»h was jointly interviewed at his residence on Segtember 1,*_'" '92 " 'l943 b Speeiel Ageti i"' was born is unable to roe! !!e ml gush language 911$
o knot ledge o affairs. Be executed the following signed state-
ment vt-hioh wee reed to him by _
. Springfield, Illinois
, September 1, 1943
- "i|_ make the following voluntary statement toF when I know to be Special Agent: oi the
o ere Bureau of Investigation, . S. Department of Justice.I
I was born
States in was n- e
resently work at ¥ing_:BF near
Springfield, I11.
IIn -I first worked in the Peabody liine #6 st Springfield,
Illinois as o member of the United Eiino Torkeri of 1'xTnO'fiGE92 that a-ill be
roforrod to hereinafter as UIEY. I worked therc about six months. I worked
in other mines after this as e member of UH-T.16 United
sideiat inois and re
"In 1921 or 1922 I 1-.-orlcod in Peabody Kine #55 under the UHF! andworked there until _ new mentto work in Mine "15" under the em.
and worked there continuously un 11 the present time with the execgtion
of the period from May, 1937 to Novarmber, 1939 when the mine was c osed
while the strike was in progress.
"1 H.478! held an office in any union.
"I become e member of the lfrogressive Hi.ne_T-'01"k6r8 oi Aznerjics
which will be referred to hereinafter as PEA in September, 1932 beeuese
everyone eleo changed to PEA at Mine "B".
E1.SHOFF had no trouble to my knowledge with the UH?-'1' before 1932.
As for as I know EISHOFF got along alright with PIA from 1932 to 1937.
I did not help organize FHA. I know nothing nbmit how the PIA
members liked their union leaders. As far as I know everyone was satisfied
under the FHA.
"Ho one started any trouble over the wage scale beck pay,
-414-
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Re: JOBS 1.. mas, er AL
19'! c/ lg! 1!
I'1H '1 know all of the followiné Persons:
~::on-i.._-.., JQE .'.IJ*;B£~.H'ESE JOE}! $TP'T0I'-
Aware scerlnevlevs - ¢E?Rws__s.9Je.nmnr
DOMINIG N Pi@§QQ_A.LE GEUHG§__;_If_=Pm mm " @5 I
1'84:-NK_:»USII.1iF _ JAMES HALErm, PLOTCH '-"""""
, __M__,
Two or three weeks after I returned to Mine "B" to work when it
re-opened in November, 19359 I signed a mm card and became a member of IBIIY.
I didn't want to join ULQT, but everyone else did so I did boo, I W38 HBVBI
threatened or made to join. I I-lways stayed in tho background and let the
other men decide what to do. -
"I did not know about the activities of the eleven men whose names
are mentioned above in this statement, except that after the mine opened
in 1939 these men went around to the miners to get them to join U157. I
heard that some miners were beaten up but I don't remember who or why they were
beaten.
"I remember when the five men were thrown out of FHA in Hey 1957,
but I do not know: why. I did not go to the FHA meeting on Bay 11, 1937
because I do not understand English well. For this reason I can not talk
very well about union affairs or whet the trouble was in 193'? when the strike
took place at Mine "B".
"I helped picket lfine '8" with the other FM . members for several
weeks after the mine closed;
"I do not remember if I ever signed any FHA or UNI. petitions.
"I do not care which union I work under. I do not know anything
about PLEA and I do not know anything about UIET.
*1 have had this statement consisting of one and one half pages
read to mo by because I do not reed English. Thisstatement is tr! lcs! 0! nw gowlodge and I gave the information set
forth above of my own free will. o ~
Isisw _
I"
signed! H <=1@=1'=°>FOBQIQ ; FIBlIl'
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Re: JOHN L. LE-FIB, er AI.
L3 ]_¢ lD
WITH
1, 1943 by iol
is a naturalized
cooperative and
'B' from 1936 to January 26, 1940. He
following signed statement:
- Springfield, Illinoil
September 1, 1943
I, make the following voluntary statement to
whom I know to be Special Agents of thehi » er- urc f Invos igotion, . S. Department of Justice.
} I came to the
United em _ 9 in
"Upon my arrive
working in the mines at
United Mine Lor
UHF at the
mine aboutH
l in the United States in I started
The first union o nod was the
be referred to hereinafter as
I hiiped organize UHW in that
H68? 38
'1 come to Springfield, 11111101; 111- and went to work at
the Capitol Mine and the #2 Sengemon Mine under the UMW. -
I went to work at Kine "B" about 1936 udor the Progressive line
Workers of America that will be referred to hereinafter as the PHA._
'1 never held an office in any uion. I attended most of the .
union meetings at ¥ig§_IB'. I liked th FHA and was satisfied with its
officials. I do not like the UM? on socout of JOHN L. LETIS and lone ET
the UNI officials.
In the UHF e minor can hold an office indefinitely, but in
PEA a miner can hold an office for only two years at one time. _
Qln Mine B I was working as a 'digger' and ION? PLOTCH came to
me about a month before the strike in Hey, 1937 while-I was digging in the
mine during working hours and asked me twice one day to leave the FHA and
join the UNI. He said I better join UHF new and I laid no, that I would ._
wait and lee which nay the other miners wont and he again sold that I
should not wait for the others, but that I should sign up with UHF right
away. I did not do it.
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Re: JOHN L. LEEIS, ET AL
1
4'a'?ci/ b. . _d _
1*- PF WITH Regarding the wage acale trouble, I was expecting to get
the back pay, but I know nothing about whet was going to
Icontinue _ be done by ELSHDFF or the FHA officials to got the beck
Pey-
'I know some of the men who were eggiteting for UHG'in mine B
before the mine closed on strike and after t opene in Kovember, 1939.
These men were as follows:
JOE £LBAHESE
ANDRE], scmemvlous
DO?-IIEIC _£.2.SmQ.IAl.-13
PETE cnerm
FRA!1K_ AUST11.
TONY fierce.JoeLLcezre:il_-*;_-m£_L5-8
-19.I:I£.§.I.13T°°T
"6eARLr_3_s _§0'v.LINGGREEN
T attended the FER meeting held on Kay 11, 1937. I learned thii
was e special meeting from the FHA Pit Committee.
'In the meeting the five men were thrown out of PMA because of
+.h:- acre-it-.5_+,ino +.1-mv wnra-.... -59-- _-..b -....., ....--
out of FER en3 everybody else at the meeting voted the some way.
PEA members present at this meeting including myself, got up and toldthe
how these men tried to get us to join UNI. I donlt believe
were at this meeting.doing et the nine. I voted to throw theee non
Host of
the five men
The PEA miners who didn't attend the meeting on Hey ll, 1937
were told about whet happened the next morning at the mine.
};_4' .f1Q P. Et Au MO $5 um»-3'
However, before 8:00 A.n. tho PEA Ritnommiii Come around
and told us not to bother about filling the coal cars up toIr ...,,.-.l bl
~
12"
to us diggers
the top and so
I shorted my cars that day. I think the coal cars were shorted for two
rceaone. These reasons were as follows: Because ELSEDFF would not die-
chergc the five men who were thrown out of PEA, and because
not give us our beck pay. ' '
"As best as I remember it, it was about Hey 14, 1937, about two
l-IIIELSBDFF would
days after the oeel core were ihorted that I Went to Hino '5' and all 0:
Pe men were there too. Je all wanted to go to work, but Oacor Falcetti
would not let us go to work unless we joined UNI. I learned it was this
way because the FHA Pit Committee wont to ELSHOFF's office to see about working,
about the beck wages and other things, and I hoard that most of the twelve
men including IQKIHPLOTCH were in ELSH©FF's office at that timo-
- 417 -' both
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Re: JOHN L. uzrrxs, mu. J
id} ¢-/" £:>!D
IEFIERVIEI TITH ELSHOFF celled the Sheriff out to the mine to have the
FHA men thrown off the property.
ODI1!1'.Il92.'|.8H
The twelve or fourteen men who were eggitsti for UHF
went down the shaft to work. I saw this. I saw Oscar Faloetti go duln the
shaft with them.
'1 helped to pocket the mine for about three or four month after
that .
'1 signed the FHA petition of Eny 26, l9§? to shoe I we; o nenher oi
P33. .
"In Hovembor, 1939 I started book to work when the mine re-opend,
On January 26, 1940 &L QS who lives new rang
Street, Springfield, Illinois and who got e job lest week at Kine n com
to Ie in the wash house at Kine "B" early in the morning. He said, youbetter not put on your working elothes and go down in iio iioi because
if you do "on "' 1 never come up from the mine. wholives on . Springfield. Illinois was atandg near
mo when this was 5&1 n .o old mo that I'd hotter sign up with UMT.
I did not go down in the mine that day and I never went beck,
because I did not want to join tho UHF, and I was afraid I would he killed
if I stayed there any longer as a member of the PEA.
not read "I can speak and understand the English language
:4. _...11 Inna. ...-....L-___._L .._... _,_-.1 .|._ .._._ 92-. 0......Lb 'I?lU.LJ..g 1II$§ QDBPUIBUUD W55 fu DU I33} U.Y QPUU
th f at home a. in o presence o my 1 t
Springfield, Illino s an 1 rue and eorroe
* I
=itnessed:
{signed}
Special Agent, F.B.I_.
signed!
Special Agent F.B.I."
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92'I 'N . questions put toRe: JOHN L. LE1"-IS, ET LL _ _
I La"! / E49
ERV '1'iI'IH owed o 31, 1943, by Special _and t his residence.
o cooperate in answering the
" <1 finit <1 ld wining: u appeared to be alert e e, an _wou gr
I testir if called upon to do so.
- Following in a signed Itatement obtained from-
"8pringtield-, Illinois
p August 31, 1943ab the following voluntary statement to
when I know to be Special Agents of the
stigation, 11.8. Department of Justice.
I was born in I was naturalised
an American citizen at Spring ie , inois, a e not recalled, but before
one years old, as I gained my citisenshi throu h father,I am asently employed by a1;d
S i f 1 Pr as =6 -
"I have worked off and on at mines including Nine "A", line '15",
and at the Capitol line owned by the Peabody Coal Co. _
"1 recall that I was working at Hing "" under the United MineZiorkers of America that will be referred to hereinafter as URN inyand
I continued to work at léine "B" under the Uli until 1932 when liine went
Progressive line Forkers of America that will be referred to hereinafter as
the I-HA. At that time I became a PEA member.
I was a member of the Pit Committee under the UHF. for a period
of two and one half years and held the some position for two years under the
HM. I attended all union meetings under the E and under the BIA.
"Sometime in the ear before I932 whn the PEA organized in line-3-. and another miner whole nmne I
don't icc rge rom_ no B" by the oanpany bosses. III
had the contract with Elchoff at this time.
The above men were considered by me to be fair loyal union men
who wanted to look after the interest of the miners. I believe some of .
these men were INN officials at this tine. I believe that the discharge
of those men contributed to the success of the organization of the HM in
September, 1932.
It was my job as a member of the Pit Committee, INN, to get those
- 419 -
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C - O
RE: JOHN L. LEHIS, ETA-L
l"1_., I
491:1 so
INTERVIEW VEITH men back to work, and I tried to do t and in so doing I took the matter to Board membe , and
continued! the to JOE»? H. nAuu:n'- "' and finall and I= -- wEE 1=e"i6é'If6!T'L :'1.E?-"Is. Eithelrltlhle Un.i|on" fo ieials were
not able to get these men beck to work or else the UIIW officials did not went
them back to work in the mine. I do not think the discharged mu were
e»Eg1em»»3» for the tornetien oi nnother union at this time as this was before
the iormation'of PMA. _I think these men were discharged for some other
trouble. Elshoff discharged them, according to Oscar Felcetti, because they
were Eggitators .
I
I figured it
active part in organizing PEA.
"I. mew nothing about the
September, I932 until April, 1937.
first two years after it organised.
"B" until the miners went on strikewas in favor of organizing FHA at iiine =3 in 3eptem'oer, 1932.
was time to get sway from JOHN L. LE1TIS'S control, I took no
relations between ELSHOFF and HM from
I was on the Pit Committee under PR1 the
Ab fer as I can rooell I worked at line
in 1937.
I believe the nu. membership was satisrieo with the ma leaders.
I believe I heard that literature was passed out by the Ulli to
get the Hm men back into the HIM.
"I do not remember why the five men were thrown out of PILL. I
did not attend the PHIL meeting held on the night of May 11, 1937. _
"I know nothing about coal ours being shorted or why they were
shorted. .
I know nothing about the wage scale controversy in the Spring of
1937.
' I signed the PEA petition of lay 26, 1937 to show I was s member
of PEA. I helped picket Kine "B" for 56 days. r
"1 went out to the mine everytime it was supposed to re-open, but
I never went to work on these ocossions. e
I heard the whistle blow on the days Kine "B" was supposed to re-
open. Cally INA men went beck to work on these ocaesions.
The last day I worked at Mine "B" was on the day the miners went
out on strike in Hay, 1937, until January, 1942. I finally left line '5'
in June, I942. Rhen I went back in January, 1942, I joined the THE.
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0 P 0
Re: JOHN L. L-BT18, ETLL
R B70 1513
INTERVIET. TJITH "I have no desire to ever work for the U157 organization
m mder the present leader-shig. I preferred the PIA over
lcontinueaj the IMF became I felt I was treated more fairly by the
UHF.
- I have read this statement consisting of two and One half pages
__ _ -L .... _J -,_--,A.=-L J-_. A-1... Ln-& J _-- I.-.--..1.-.1-1-. -.-.1 I--.l¢l-I92DFLIU nu UUFIULD UP loll! UUEU UL my LLl§"l'4l-US-l$U' I-Ila UULJFJQ
.<-7
witnessed:
_ Special Agent, FBI.
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RE: JOHN L. LB-TIS, ST AL -
L 7:1 Le 2D
INTERVIBY .' TH H wag jointly interviewed at his residence on _i Pg B 19* "Y " *° 'h.* Q He eppeared wil ling o y er ques-__ tions fret to hisn, though '15 mowredge of grtinent feet: see l$::'.ited= Be
_- presents e ood appearance, is alert and willing to testify if celled upon. ~ to do so. e furnished the following signed stetanentn
r *' e s "§prin§field, Illinoil4 -Q IAAC
bugullé O1, Pit,
the following voluntary stetenent toWhom I know to be Special Agents of the
. 5. Depertnent of Justice. _
-, springfield, 111-
I arrived in the United
my fnther_- I first
at Epringfield, Ill. I started work-
_ , , of the United Hine Workers of imerice,
hereinafter referred to as U..[iu', and I worked in these two mines and four other
local mines from _ I presently work at Panther Creek lline no. 4-
"In HI started working in Mine B and continued to work there _
until Boy, 193 w n the nine closed down. I did not help in the §_;'_qgrg_§ha_i v_;_e
Miners of America picket line. I will refer to this letter union an the FHA.
Idid not go back to Hine I3 until November 1939 when the nine opened.worked than from }-c--water 19" *~ I when I voluntarily
and went to
I never did go beck mine . wor e as n ne or o - om 1916 to
Septanber 1932. 1 voluntarily joined the Pm in 3epte::92'ber,1932 when Hine B
went Progressive. I have remained with the FHA Iran 1932 to the present tine.
and never did rejoin the TTE-IT.I
!e!eru1 gar
"I presently r
inois. I was born in
States having derived
started working in ooel mines
ing at Mine A or mine B as a
"I never held my office in the U1-N and the only office I ever held
in PIIL was as e. member of the trial board of local 54 at mine B. I held that
position for about en.» yenre Ihieh 1 thLn_k an; eE_1out F;-on 1to 1932 relations between ESHOFF end Uli-I were good. E when the nu?!
officials stated that the bnllot box was stolen, I didn't believe it end
neither did other miners, so I joined the FHA. I did not help organise PHA-
I want to very few union meeting;_ in 1937. At t1at time I never heard any -
thing about 'IJ'iEi'I men organizing in the mine. I never heard the Pea expelled
any mm. The lest dny the mine worked in lay, 195? I knew coal cars were
shorted; I thought the cars were being; shorted because Elshoff would not
pay the back pay he hnd agreed on. No one tried to get me to join 'Ull»I._ I
siged the PEA petition on llny 26_,"l937 to show I wa__ e member of Plll._ I"
don't remanber any other petiwns» ' '
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RE: IJHII L. LEFIS, ET LL
l='7c/ ,l=-'71! e
When mine I3 opened in November 1939 I want to work an 1
member of the PEA and worked to February 12, 1940. Io
one has ever contacted me to join the UT-FT. T do not '
know anything about the wage lcale problem or the effort:
of U1?! and PILL to get or maintain the bargaining rights at Kine B.
"I have em-e!u11y res-.6 and fully understand the one and n ml! _
pages of this ete.teme:_1t which contains the truth to the beet of my knowledge.
/'/
YAITNEBBEI :INTERVIEW WITH
Icontinueaj
Special Lgent, FBI
Special -lgent, FBI
' 1
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92-92
"I, he_ _{ .__,..1.._A_é__----i__ . ._. ._._ -i41- A-Ill -__-- 7
1. lo
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m=;= Joan L. 1.'~:".':s, er .u.
$ 7c:_/ Q /!_D V
TIITH Illinois, was inter-viewed at his home opecial Agentsg
nd on Septem er ,
l?i.3. it is not believed ne would make a goon witness due to his inabiliti
to speak nglish fluently. He has no known criminal record. He furnished
the following signed statement: ,ITER
A -111-
_ , September l, 1943
the £01101-ring voluntary statement to- are 5pecial Agents of the Federal
bureau o1 Inve ' or promises oi any--" ifind have been
made to get me to nake a statement and I do so knowing it may be used in
a court of law. _
"I was born I came to U. S. in
became a nature ize citizen o U. . n
' "I first 'oined U 11?: Union hin tond worked i 3 Ife there. eater JJ1. began._O1" ing a ne "B' . I have not held an office in any union.-.
In 1932 I joined P. 1!. A. because all the men in U H T. were changing
to P I-J A so I changed too.
"There were no strikes or close-downs that I know of between 1932
and 1937. Sometime in the lst part of Hay 1937 a group of men at the mine
while waiting to go down the shaft said several men had been expelled from
the P.E.¬.A. for spying. {Go one approached in any nay to join 'J.H.TI.
At the end of that day we were called out on strike and I understood that '
it was because the management had refused to stop those men who had been
expelled from continuing to work in the mine. '
"I don't recall signing ahypetitions in the summer 01 1937.
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RE! JIIHN L. 131115, IT LL .
27¢. _1¢/94¢!
msnvmz 2:111: - *1 received a letter in rm. 1939 em the mineQ would reopen. I went to work as a digger in
_con um ! the sane room I had Worked in 1937. EU tools
were still there and I didn't notice any large
cave:-ins at the mine. No one attempted to get me to change from P H 1 to
U.I.'.TI. at a.n;,' time. I voted P L! A in the 1'! L R B election in February
154.1. About two days later I joined U 1! T! becauae the election showed
TI i? "T had a zzmjority and I "wanted to be With the major-it?-
I
any unionan now working at Him *3", Ii I had my awn free choice of
I would prefer PALA-
have had this three page statement read to mc by _
true and correct to the best of W im0nledge."
/=/ 'I
and it is
"Wimessed:
iipeciel Agnt, LBJ,"
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Re: .nmL.1.1-ms '
92_ 1,W 40
mr 1 W111-! - 111111011», was interviewed at% , by Special Age:1, I43. dvised
e B B8 he does not have a cz -would not mak g _
as he cannot speak English very
- _provided the following statement:
e B Q;-1»
Sep em r 1, 1943.
"I Ill., make the following voluntary state-
ment to an when I know to be Special Agents of the
Federal reau Inves iga ion. o force, threats or promises have been made
in obtaining this statement and I know that what I may say may be used in
a court of law.
" "I was born em rated to the u. s. inI am a citizen of . . mg na ura i
in
"I started mining coal in the U. 5., inmD in mind becamea member of 1111?? hm about Q I remained a me er 0 until I
became a member oi 1932. came a member of PEA because my local
Illfv? changed to PEA in 1932. I took no active part in the formation of P.1I.A.
"I have never held an office in any union. ' _
"I I35 employed by lline "B" in about nd I am new employed by
Mine "B" as a trackman.
"Prior to Sept. 1932 the management of Mine "B" seemed to be on
good relations with UH?-'.
"ktwegn 1932 and May 1937 UMW did not set up a yicket line at
Lime B, nor did Ull distribute literature at I-line "B". No one attempted to
get me to change from PIA to UH? between 1932 and my 1.2, 1937.
"I at no time saw an official of U112? with the management o1 line "B".
"So far as I know there was no controversy over the wage scale in
the Spring of 1937.
"I did not attend a FHA meeting on the night of I-hy ll, 1937 and
do not know if I had notice of such a meeting. I did nottake any interest
in union activities. I did not know of anyone being expelled from PIIA in
-426-
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O . O
Re: JOH!~IL.I.E'F?IS,ET1L '
éqav L10
_centinued, I reported ior work on the morning of "8? 13, 1937. Some-
one told me sometime that day that the mine was on strike, '
everyone looked like they were going home so I went home. No one told me
why };Ein_e__j,B" was on strike and I did not know the reason. So far as I
know'*there was no intention on the part of miners to strike that day. I
saw no coal cars loaded short the day of the strike.
"'1 think I signed two PM petitions in the summer of 1937. I do
not rember much about the petitions and I cannot ranember where I was when
they were signed. No one threatened me if I did not sign.
"I did not sign a U!-IW petition in the sunmer of 1937. -
"I do not know of the formation of a new UHF union in the summer
Of92l937.
"Sometime in Sept. 1937 I heard PEA had 8 picket line at line "B"
and I went to picket in order to enjoy myself. I acted as a picket off
and on for ahgnt two ggnths, I was not forced to be a picket. So far
as I know no persons acted as pcikets except Mine "B" employees. There
was no violence during the time I acted as a picket. An injunction was
obtained to prevent picketing. I was not present when the injunction was
served and do not know the attitude toward the injunction.
"I did not know of Mine "B" attempting to re-open in Dec. 1937 or
Janu ' '
"I voted Ln. the NLRB election Dec, l5, I93? £01" I think the
election was fair and I was allowed to vote any way I wanted to.
"In the last part of 1939 I received notice to return to work at
itine "B". I returned to work and received a job as track man a short time
later. I did not see the result of any large fires on my returnto iiine
"B", there were a few ve-ins. Several months after I returned to workat Mine "B" u1&T]£ OD and a man name.sked me at Kine "B" if I
-would join UH-T. I informed them I did not know ii I wanted to Join or not
as I was PIA at which time they stated if I did not join I may be too late.
No one threatened me if I did not join UH-'1'. Several months after I wentback to work I saw mien utes after someone beat him very
badly. I do not known o him. was beat while he was in
his room at lline "B".. Ialso saw two more noun men fighting. I do not
know why was best. -
"In the last part of 191.0 I knew most of the men at 1.ne "B" were
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Re: ma 1.. mus, er u.
92 I __. -b 1° IL!
INTERVIEW WITH joining U H W so I joined I joined U119? through Char'l s -W Bohanon, -Bohenon promised he would get my son a J05 at
continued ' Ene "B" if I joined UAW. __Bohanon got my son a Job at ;-Zine
IIBTI. "
"In Feb. 1941 I voted at the H.L.R.B. election FHA. This elect? on
was a fair election. -
"I am now employed at 1'-ine "B" and I am treated all right. e
"I have had this statement consisting of five pages read to me and
it is true and correct to the best of my knowledge.
/5/
Witnessed:--
Illinois
Agent - F.B.I.
Special Agent, F.B.I."
I
-423-
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" Re; L. LEWIS, III AL.
; bow we
ET YEW --TY sringrield,
Illinois, was interneweo at his home on September 1, -pt
1943 by Special Agents End l'1iii:*' is uneducated, and pI0f85BB an na ility ..o rea or wri e glish, e::-
, cept .his own name. He can Lhderstand English only when very Simple,
w92'|n-in l'929292Al_+l9292 e nun;-| Q91:-.1-I -.4 Lion Ina Q-92|-_.-ah-2- Jo» as um-gun-0 I-I-In -l92|n:92n92;-ill-GKJJI til-KUDIILI-I148 BIC 5DJ'92D92-J UJ- .l.lJ-U10 JIU 9}J-'1'-J92U J-ll GI UB1 ILLELI, D92192l§iIvl92,!
voice. I-Ie claimed to-have no criminal record. The following signed.A statement was obtained from
'__i "Springfield, Ill.
September 1, 1943
Q make the following voluntary statement to
Q who1'.~. I know to be Special .ige:'1".".s
o. ....e .-cc. - -~ - ion, of sq cnn free will, with
'1 no force use romises made me.
_
H "I presently live at ield
I am working at Mine B. I u~:=- Q I ° ° *'° "h° "8"I a na ura ize ci izen in-- .92 , 1_:.- 2:}L 1:!-'_ * "I just ioined a mion, the Ihitod line Workers, in bpri.ng- _
7 field amut years ago. I joined the Progre_.s_s;*go J_,,1'*,~,g Iiorkersof America im and went back to the U.H..'f. in 1940. I never '
,. held an office in any mien. 1 started work in Kine rs when tnei - superintendent was a man known as I was working at Nine B in 1932
- when the P.?-E.-1. took over the union, and I followed the mjority of
,5; the men and joined the P.}I.... From that time mtil the strike
" in 1937, conditions at the mne were all right , and there was no
trouble ,
1 . T Hnn +. wrunnrnhu-F nnu P Tl. .- nvi-aft no an f. r> n1 _rr'h+. hnfnrn tho& av u ¢ Hlslwuowvg -..- J Q I mono uh-v v.- D vs. won u-.u-av v-- v. -- -uwstrike and .t don't know the reasons for the strike. I think that_
{ _called the men out of the mine, but I don't know why, other
than that I heard it was because we didn't gut a raise in pay. I
don't remember signing £1 P.!.I.*. petition, or any other one, in 1937,
and I don 't know whether I voted in the 1937 election or not. Be-
li'-"- cause I can't road English, speak or understand it well, I never -took much interest in unim meetings. M
ml-.1-qln-.92 urn: nnann an .|"!:.in1~n '1*§.n921|. +151! T551 +.92'92."1+. 4'.Y92l 1-Ii Ilkl El-lib 92Ill, 92J92I92-ll 5} I-Mil Y92|I92W I3 -I-B Ill-V WI--II u~-
" Y I stays he P.L!.¢. I couldn't have a job at lune B. He told me that
D _ the men would go back -to work, and the company would open up the mine,
if the men would join the UJLW.E
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Re: JOHN L. I.E92-HS, E1 :11».
la! <:_/ Eb
Ill 1: WITH l Ab-out two months after the Mine B opened 1': 1'- ? '
t ba k t w k havin been called to work '.:;' '-: » _
' , , . _ '15- err "'
' a D L-:;..'
_ . '" ' ' . ' . . cl l:.:*s:
Q ' ' ' - 13':Iwen c o or , g .
Contmued! Elshoff when my room was ready I don't remener t 1*
t:|.me but I know that after the mine opened, a man known h 1 no
that I should join U H31. or else I would get beat up I W85 =0 °"' be":
up, but I saw many men beet up 111 the mane by U H31. men I or Y
any of the names I know that the sheriff beat up some men who :11- r
jom the U L1. 1. I joined the U EM: nght after I went back to work at
the mine I felt that I had to ioin to keep my job and was afram ' '='~.Z-c.
be beat up 1f I d1ch't join
'1 have never been beaten up, but I am afraid to say anything aga.i.".st
the U.H.'..., because I know if I do, I will be beat up.
_ ,,-» -5 statement was read to me in the presence of?
I state that this statement consisting 0 . L'..|.'§u 1,: I
pages is as rue as can remember the facts.
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"hltnesses:
/s/
, FIBQII
C1, Ill-"
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Re: .:omvL.w';1s,srn. _
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NTEBV 1-. ?II'1'B The following investi ation was conducted by Sp e ali we Q -M 1Illinois, on ep r , 194 . '
ants ante:-new-ed_=° hi-I how at Q , Illinois, and he advised he has never been arres e
' in ___s life. e w interviewed in the presence of his wife, and it was
noted that although he speaks and understands the English language very well,
he could not recall things very rapidly, and his wife had to assist him inrecalling specific instances. It is felt that if- is needed as s wit-
El nose that he would make s fair witness..?..
92._;
I
furnished Agents with a signed two page typewritten state-
ment which s as follows: -
_ 111--
Sept. 1, 1943.
"I.- Ill., ammaking
1 this free and volunta
who are known to me to be Special ra
gation, United States Department of Justice. No force or threats have been
made me to give this statement.
"I was born in and came to the United tatesing and became a citizen n1 e ates in Illinois. I have notwor e for the last 3 years or so. I first joined a union Q and _
when I came to U.S. I became a member of United Mine Workers, s o y after
I came to the United States. I never have been an officer of any union._I started at Mine 3 in Springfield, Ill., about years ago or so. Tmen the
split happe in 1932 or so when John L. Lewis wanted lower wages I was
working at but afterwards I went to line B. I think I joined
Pl-it. union wen o liine B. I joined the FHA. of my own account because
I was against John L. Lewis anyway. Before the mine closed in 1:-'53? OSCAR
FALCETTI of line B always se ed to favor the UIEIY over PHI. even tho PIA wasthe local there. For aboutgmonths before I got my job at lline"TFa1cetti
would have me come out to t mine every day and it seemed because I was s.
e sive and a INN man he would not hire me. Finally my brother-in-lax,
told me that Falcetti was hiring men and finally I saw Falcetti
the would work in any place and finally he hired me.
"Host of the miners felt that BIA was a good union but there were
e few traitors in the place. I never heard any complaints against the Fro-
gressives and most of us miners were satisfied. I was s coal digger at line
B. I and other miners all felt that those PEA men convicted for the bombings
were all framed and were not guilty and we felt that IMII had something to do
I
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92
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Re: JOHN L. LEWIS, ETLL
L7c./ LoINTERVIEW rm: with it. 71!
l "1 never sue ected that PEA officials were stealing money continue p
end we never hsd any special assessments iiice they die
with mm. The Progressive union was run by us miners end it 'm=r.3n'i; liioe
the UIIFZ which was run by only e few. I sttended as nsny ".n-aeti.i.g.. as I could
0! FHA. To my knowledge no Ul men come out and bothered me tcfore the mine
closed e.-_o_n in 195'? nor did I see %v literotue oi E! 110 one ever
epproeched me about going over to WT? but I heard there were some going
around and this was before the mine closed. It was gossip that Uli'v"|' had
spies in I-line B but I didn't know who they were-
l.
"?ihil6 living in Springfield with
I recall that
he said that
II?L
l937. I don
dbsed down.
pelled end I
being celled
we were toldhe once said something about 1:! Hal g!v!ng a. big ps!y and
he felt before long that line B would be IKE.
about the contract running out in spring
to the meeting the night before the mine
hearing anything about lame men beihg ex- "
when I first heard about it. I remember or
out from the mine on the day it closed but I don't recall whst
about it. The way I recall it the strike was culled becausedon't call much
t recall or going
I don't recall of
just don't recall
some spies were not fired and it was not over any wsge question. I still
have my tools out there in the nine.
I recall that on the day the nine closed the cars were loaded
short because the drivers would come end take the cars sway fr us before
we could load the cars and many of mine were not full end it never -happened
before except just that one day. I can't recall the name of the driver. Io
one told no to loos! core shorto
"When we got celled out from the mine on the day it closed nothing
was said to me that s strike was called. Several weeks after the mine closet
I signed n petition for PIA and I can't recall just where I signed it. Ho
compulsion was used to make no sign it. I never signed anything for UH?!
end I never would. I would have signed any petition for Bi-A then end may
have signed snother one or two but I just cent recall for sure.
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Fm; continued!
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Re: .msL.l.sr.2s,srn. 1076/ A/LO
was out there the first day at the gate and I remember
that Falcetti got up and said something to us but I don't
recall what it was and then he let some Ulfi me go down:_.a_ a-1... _:...... __.s 1' _.......192 at...-L - s92_.11'-. ........a.-lBl92lriL1'92PI LUPQ U1 ll-lull Full Jr QYQJII BllEI92O . JQLLY
phonetic! was one who went down. I don't know ii Hid had any me ting as
to what they would do if mine opened as Eli. Tie then started to picket the
mine because I heard that Falcotti said they would open up the mine only
to IMF-i. I wa out at line B most of the time when we were watching the
grounds. It was very quiet out there and we miners Just sat around and
smoked and ate and there were no fights or trouble. Ho one forced no to go
out and we were just protecting our jobs there. BIL did not bring in any
outsiders at all on that strike and it was just the local men who were there.
I don't recall of any WW men coming out while the sit down
strike was on. I think I was out at Mine B when the larshall came out but
I can't recall just what happened except we all went home.
_ "I recall hearing something about the mine going to reopen as IKE
so I did not go out as I folt there might be some trouble there. This was
after the Marshall was there.
RT -...-.+,-..: ..+ -st... as .-ac mun 41....-cs.-..-. ....-I 4+ -...-.~...a.A 4-.-. 1-... ..1-...-:..l..+ --J. IUUUQ QB UIIU LLIUU lIl§H-I ULUUULUJ-I G-Ll92sl U DW§lll§r92-L IIUP NW ..l.l Elli! 1..
far as I know. I never saw any strong arm methods being used. It was a
secret ballot and no one forced no to vote. I voted Progressive.
Shortly after the above election it seems as 1:_h_o_ I received a
letter from someone saying the mine was to reopen under U1.-.'w' and because ct
that I did not evon go out to the mine. I always felt that the Progressive
Local was a better one than the WT; and I still feel that way and under the
Progressive we miners could say what we wanted to say and no one hurt us but
aa_J-ca... TIPTT lb -as-92_ a-a-a Isa- as D».- -I-1 --la -pd-A1 ..¢..-1! _ _ _ Q . _ _ a . Q __._.L92_Ulllliil Ulll Lb WEB IIILI U, ll LU" ILJJU ,5! JJUVUI U-UULU UPUIJ yUU|l EUUUILQ
Ewen £12 FHA had the majority and won the election we miners hears
a lot of gossip around that Elshofi had received a large sum ofnonoy es:
John L. Lewis and we miners also heard that Elshofi ielt sorry that he over
took the uoney_c>_tlierwisc he could have opened the mine back under Rik.
I don't know much about what wont on from the time the first
clection was held till the mine opened in the fall of 1939. In fall of 1939
1' _._a. ._ 1-4.; . _ _ _ .-4_.. ~r .__._1a .._ 92._..92- a... ____92__ 1_ _' ___.s._s_ ____;-__ _n _-__.|. gun u. suuuus laying J. uuusu 50 UILGL 1-U IIO11. 111 ll Gurtlillll I1}IllIDBI' OJ. days.
I wont over to Hine B the first day it an
_ I bel ed to. I went down the
71'»-¥ Lgceiii lo me my o. he
1". . for the time being and he t ld mo to take a few shots in that. Hy old remwas and they gave me bwhen I went back. Nothing was said about
a cont:-ac then. I felt the our wage would be tho same as before. I
~435-
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Be: JOEL. LETIIS, ETAL
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don't recall if any ltrangers were there or not. I didF not vote at the second NLRB election as I was not work-
-_ continued! ing there. During those 7 days I was there no one asked
me to join over to HIE-' and I did not lee any 1"i5!rta-
Since then I have never worked as I had arthritis then. -IHTETRVIH5 ZITH
The mine appeared to be in bad condition but aii T saw was jult
where they told me to goto. I never heard anything about a fire there
while the mine was cloned.
"I never joined over to Ulf when I went back to work and I ltill
call myself a progressive and not a IBM. I
"Ihave read this 2 page typewritten statement and it is true and
" correct and I have signed it of my own free will.' @171
»~ '!|lIIIIIIllIIII
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,jf Speoial Agent,~FBI, st. Paul,-Minn.
_7£ peoial 5-gent, FBI, Milwaukee, 'éil,. *
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Re: JE L. LEWIS, ET LL
I J/?_|;
INTERV was interviewed at his hume,
S ri field: Illinois, b-1
__ / anF =1 _=* 'August 81, not have a ox-in na. re-.:u:"<l-.
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I _ _wou1d not make a good witness as he does not speak
... _ _ ..--._.-- -.- .. -- &_. 'LJ- D..4J--I91, Uél D DU l92lI LIUUIO
The following aigned statement was furniahed by _
Springfield, 111.,"
' August 31, 1943.
" ".n..L._ "1, , s rin 1:91;, 111.,
the following vo notary e atemen 0 . .-.
know to be L- special agents of the Federal Bureau of 111"Té=STI'.5'bLl.O.u-_ in f-_-no
threats or promises have been made in obtaining this at-it-;.r.ent and I ;;n;-'1
that whet I may any may be used in a court of law.
'1 gag "pg;-11 11- g11qi_|=,1g-5,-_-L_=|r'{_ -11.3 they U, S.wand became a naturehze: citizen of the U._S".._
"Ix. became a member of Ulii when I was employed at Sengzmon
Coal Liine, Sp:-1'ng_iield, I11. and remained a member of that union. until
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Re: JOHN L. LEWIS, ET LL
92 ~ !9 7 C_/ 1? 7~D
I"1'E-TRVIE.Y TITH distributed at Mine "B" by DIM. Bo one attempted .
to convert me from P.-IA to ULW and I did not see or -
hear of anyone attempting to convert anyone fr
PEA to URN prior to Hay 19375
I know nothing about the wage scale controversy in the Spring
of 1937.
"1 did not attend or know of a FHA meeting on the night of Hay 11,
1937 nor do I know ifanyone was expelled from PIA in Hay 1937.
About Hay 12, 193'? I worked all day and upon leaving the nine
someone told me the mine was on strike. I do not know why the nine
went on strike and no one told me why the mine was on atrike._
I do not remember signing any petitions in the Sumner of 1937.
"1 do not recall a new mm local being formed in the Sumner of
1937.
Sometime in Sept. 1937 someone left word at my home for me to go
"B". I went to Fine "B" and found out the mine was being picketed
I remained for a for hours and returned home. F0 one threatened
did not picket.to
by
me' iine
PEA .
if I
"1 obtained a position with WPA soon after Sept. 1937 and took
no interest in Lfine "B".
"I do not 1-ember voting in the HLRB election Dec. 15, 1937. _
"In the last part oi 1939 I received a letter from ifine "B" to
report for work. I returned to Nine "1-3" to work immediately as a driver
and worked at P-fine "B" for about one year at which time I was discharged
by Oscar Falcetti because I refused to drive a mule. Prom the time I
returned to Mine "B" in 1939, I was frequently given a different mule.
I do not know the reason the mine kept changing mules on me. ,
No one asked me at Mine "B9 to change from HA to Ull after my
return to Kine "5" in the last part of 1939.
Frog! Plotch and another nan came to my home in 1940 to aak if I
would change from PEA to U1-ET. -
"1 was never threatened by anyone and I never new any violence
at I-Eino "8" during the time I was employed there in 1939 and 1940.
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Imrmwmr Tm At 1;he tima I was discharged from Mine '8' I was 1 ., member of nu.
con xnue'1 -In wowed =~= i
I11.j Re: JOBH LL Lms, mu.
_ '1 have had this four pigs statement read to me and it it true
and correct to the heat of my knowledge.
'*= °"!
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- Sp. Agt. F.B.I. ~ Spfld, I11. signed!
Special Agent, F.B.I.' ligned!
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._" .1 INIERVII-I? re rm fol on-i investigation was92' g Agents and p} Illinois on Sep e er 1, '_§~ Agents interviewed and he advi.
hi lif r s ated that arrested in s e.
Illinois, from 1937 to 1941.
n It was noted tlzatgis a very intelligent nan and appeared
to know a lot about union affairs. He stated that he would be willing to
testify if called upon but his wife remarked that if he did testify she
hoped he would not lose his Job. Ho would make an excellent witness.
In regard to the affidavit mentioned hereinafter it 50
stated that the same is fil in the springeld Field Di? 8101!, and it llone that was signed by and several other pe s s atq Illinois,on hugust 25, 1937, and ma e reference to C H, now ceased! -
contacting him relatie ding e L5? wet i
_ fu1"niBhBd agents with a signed statement which he signed
and initia e an it is as follows:
111- -
Sept. 1, 1945.
"I give the following statement ton_ . ..._ _ l___ 1_____ s__ _.. .a_ 92.._ ..-_s-1 l,_-.a _ Q .-.MIG Inn are sinwm to no to we nyuoans qgeuus u.|. uselegra! Bur. o nves . o throats or promises have been made me and I lube
this statement of my own tree will and volitiom
"11,? add:-ess is I11. I was born in
I now work for Eabody E at no. Ere I have been employed forthe last yrs. When I was about I joined the UIIFJ at Auburn, Ill. I have
been a me er of the "Pit__Com-nitteo at the Vsrdimlline this was a BIA
union and was before I went to Kine '3". I started at I-530 "3' in Log. 1936
as a Track layer____ I was then s member of the FIIL
From the time I started in line "3', remember that Ialsoetti.
was sore because the was letting the mines e'a'treoting with them Hive s
halt hour elean up ttw to mist in em P4-Ia would not permit this endFALSCETTI was -displeased. Before tt mine closed there was talk in the
nine 1-.5? the men were going Ultivithin s certain tins. '
"y experience with the FHA has always been that it is a rankjnd _ _,
file aesiaers Union. I attended some meetings of the BEA while at line '3' _
but not all. I took more interest in the Progressives because of the dirty _
deal we had gotten from the Eln". There never appeared to be anything crookeds
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lie: JOHHL.I.EfII5.!'1'AL ' '
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In; urn It was the feeling at en. em. um; the nu miners
who were convicted of the bombings had been given I _
e d s t t were arsed. rawdalan omehough they fr
"1 don't remember any trouble between BIA and {IE3 prior to the
strike. 'ulBn one of the men was underpaid for the work he was doing, the
Pit Conmitteemen instead of helping the man with his grievance, which I
believe was a just one, took the part or the Co. The Committoamen I
remember wer Joe albanose and _._Ln_d_y Schrelevio
B 6wanamdhu_§'_the man with the grievance
"I don't know anything about any social parties or affairs held
by Elshoff.. ..
In the Spring of 1937 we were working under a temporary agreement
calling for retroactive
doubt in our minds that
Prior to the strike the
be 0-K. There was somepay after the contract was reached. There was no
the PEA could not do as well for us as the IKE.
men worked on feeling confident that everything would
talk that we might not get a contract but most of the
men paid no attention to this.
"1 recall that there was a meeting lay 11, 1943. I don't know
if it was Special or Bogu1o.r_,___I knew it was to be held but don't remember
how I know. The morning of the strike there was no talk or fuss concerning
pay. I don't remember there being any trouble that morning over anything.
The only thing I do know was that there were some oars loaded short, but I
don't know why. I remember the mine shut down about one half hour before
quitting time but I worked on through_,_ I don't know that this was about. I
seem to remember t refusal of Elshoff or Folecetti ac to recognize
our reprosentativ K
"I recall signing several PEA petitions the auusner of 1937. he
of these was a couple of weeks after the mine closed. I signed it of my
own free will. I heard of e. 11311. petition that sunmer but I never saw or
sipied it.
"1 signed a 2nd PAL petition the summer of l931___this was to go to
the Govt. for something. I signed this oi my own free will. _
"1 remember that a WW local was formed the summer of 1937.
"I recall signing the affadavit of August 25.1937. I re-affirm
the statements therein and acknowledge my signature thereon. _
- There was nothing unusual that happened during the summer of 1987 -except that Chas. Bohannon and some others came to -to get the men to _
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RBI Je L. LERIB, ET IL
-L='7c/' 1:113Iurniil swing over out no one oontacted lo.
_cen1:-innerl, "1 remember when the mine opened in Bent. 193? a whole
bunch of us were out there and some oi the men who
were the trouble makers in the union went do1rn_____ they even went down in
clean clothes. Some of those who went down were "8_;a_n" Joe Alba.n§__a_e, y '
_5_e !.>nm1r=.ia_Pe;=_a!.e_1°. 1?!?.$_=1_Qarie-r. Fra;;k;,un>ln. Tony_P10tI=h.§_9§t.On_A£nria.l. £533. &.§lnqr;[ Jagayggy and Cha_s','Tchmon. It wan understoodthat Llbcnese had bought the papers of a fellow named;-who returned to
the old country. F
Falgetti came out and told the men to get back I0 1'-11086 who '
to could go back to work. I believe the picketing started the next day .this lasted awhile and the men went hcsng__ then we heard the nine wan to'LFe
Eened and we started picketing again for a while and then moved in on the
property. This was done by local members to protect their jobs there was no
outaide help. I went out of my mm will and ao did the others '5 far as
I knOI. '
"I got a job at thep the day or so before the llarehall
came to tell the men to leave t e mine property. I have not been back
since .
"1 voted in the first N.1.R.B. election and voted for BIA because
that was the Union I wanted. So far as I know this was a honest election
and there was no force used at this election. I had the r'ight to vote be-
cause I still had the right to go back and claim my job at lline '8'.
"I have read the foregoing statement of seven pages and so far as
1 can at th_ia time recall lt in all the truth. I am therefore liping it
of my mm free will.
Sim L
'r-dtnessed: '
Spec. Agt. FBI! llilw!.
Spec. Agt. FBI! St. Paul, Minn.!
S.ept% , . i " _
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INTER? _vas interviewed at his home on August 29, I191.3 by S cial Agents and Qe gave informa on vo untari y an ely.9292 It is believed the we make o good witness. He claimed to have no
0 . criminal record-! , V *1 .92 1 The following signed statement was giyen by
tn .
_ . "Springfield, I11. W _
__6 - . iugost 29, 1943-
_ .
following statement freely and voltmtsrily
'_ who have identified themselves to
are-an of Investigation. No threats or
promises have been made to me to obtain this statement.
I I1 presently reside at _ S ingfield, Ill. I
an _ Cree1;__l-linen . w.
J. uc-"nu uu ussv -.......ed State in 3
in a F e a court.
"I first Joined a nine union ir-when I was working in s nineum This was the United Hine Yorkers union. I remained a member
of is n until 1932 when I Joined the P__z;g_g1;e§_5j_m_Hi_ne,,_~',Iorkers ofAmerica in Springfield, Ill. I first started to work at liingj about and continued to work there until I have never been an
officer oi any union.
"Prior to 1932 there was not any trouble between Elshoff and the
U.I'.IT. at i-ne B. In 1932 the miners became dissatisfied with U.}.!."-'. after
it was said that John L. Lewis had stolen the votes in an election in that
year. Ihe Progressive Mine Yorkers of America started up in that year. I
did not take any part in the formation 01' P.M.A., but Joined that union
imr:ediate1y.- Another reason the miners did not like U.LZ.F.. was the many
assessments imposed by that union on the members. lhey were called "special
assessments" and the olficers of U.H..'f. did not tell the members for what
purjwosethe assessments were used.
"After the formtion of PJLA. in 1932, everything went anoothly
at the nine. As I recall there were no strikes or shut-downs. I don't
recall any attempts on the part of the management of Nine B to discredit
the leaders of P.!i.A. -
"I did not go to many meetings of P.!-!.A., but when I did go to '
meetings I know that I could have said what I wanted to at any time. The
leaders did not attempt to tell us what to do. If we did not attend tin
- 441 -
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ck ta I
"* Re: Joan L. IETIIS, er AL
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meetings, we were not fined. I was satised with the
P.}-LA. leaders gig I thought were always trying to help
the members; I don't recall anything being said in the
P.I£.A. meetings about the bcmbings that were happening
between 1932 and 1937. I only knew what I read in the newspapers-.
' a "If the P.Zl.a. ever asked for extra assessments, the leaders always
explained vhat the assessments were for. There weren't many assessments.
"From 1932 to 193'? there were no attempts by the U.};.".'., to my
knowledge, to picket i£i3g_1L I never saw any propaganda. '
"I don't know anything about any social contacts between the
members oi the U.b£.'.T. and the management of the mine.
"After the temporary agreement was signed by the P.!Z..1. officials
with the mine management, I don't recall that the P.l1.... officials gave
any report on this agreement. I, as well as most of the miners, felt that
the P.!1...-. could get as good a wage scale as the U.I1.'.I. could get. All of
us had faith in the F.}-5.;-.. leaders. I don't recall any trouble at Iiine B
on pay days in April 1937.
"I don't recall seeing any notice of the P.I-..a. meeting just
before the strike in 1937, but I recall that I heard that there was going
to be a meeting. I don't know what the meeting was for, and I don't recall
that I went to the meeting.
"Cm the morning of the strike in Hay, 1937, I don't recall any
talk regarding the -wage scale. As I recal l__ the P.I.{..-.. men refused to go
into the mine if the U.2!..'. went into the mine. I remember that I saw
Dominic Pasquale, Andy Schrelevious, and a third man arguing with the
P.LZ..92. officials on the morning of the strike. I don't know what they
were arguing about. There was some talk at the mine on the day of the
strike about loading; the cars with short weights to make the mine manage-
ment sign a contract with P.II..1. ' I did not load my cars short, and I don't
know if any miners did load their cars short.
"1 recall that I signed the £211.... petition 921hich Ph!
brought to my house. He told me that the P.!Z.... officials wants o I
out if the P.Ii..-u had a majority of the miners in liine B on their side.
I signed this petition voluntarily because I wanted to.
"I recall that in the summer of 193'? Tony Plotch, Cotton Ananias, '
and s third nan, who is now secretary of U.II..T. lol:z"rl';" cane to'"my house
with o U.I-1.1;". petition which they asked mo to sign. They told me that if
I did not sign the petition, there would be no nor!-: at I-fine_,_B, and that the
-142-
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Re: JG-IN L. LET-IS, 3'1 1.1.
1074/ b/ID
INTERVIETT RTITH nine would remain shut dorm. They also said that if
the U.l£."i. got a contract with lne B, there would beL _ better working conditions in_l__Iine.B. I did not sign
this petition, and the non did not threaten no. . -I
"Nobody asked me to join the new local of U.!{.'.'.'. when it was started
in the sunsner oi 1937. At this time I favored the P.11..92., and would not
have joined the U.E{.'?.-. if I had b..:m asked. However, I do recall that
some time in 1937, when and another nan whosenone I don't remember were a! Mouse,_!on! And Schrelevious, and
came to my house. hwy told no that if I wanted to work, Iam -sign up-Q-_q.--n LI.» L.s._HIJJJ/§iJ UHU 5-JUII
at that time was not employed in Elinr.with the U.l1.:T. They said that the nine would not reon
-.l_.»..l ..-. --.-l.l.l.. YT I ' T -l.l-Q ....--L -l_- --Q -.-uI&S. 11' 1' I §J.ElJ92-U UP i-1.011 UIl.o-Fl .L ULU IIUU kiwi ll]-1 NLIIH Ulfall-I
B, but n;s an U.I1.'T. organiH o had been brought into Springfield to organize the non for 11.11.11.
"In September 1937 I received :1 notice from Kline B that the nine
was going to reopen. .';t this time I did not knozt" oi the attitude of -
P.l£.A. about the nine being opened under U.I.1.'.?., or as an open shop.
"I don't know when the picketing
T u92n-rid n-I ~|92n|'..-tr! tn It. T 92'1nn+ in +.92'92.-92L W -I L. .'@i.$ $5 *l92I
saw only lee:-.1 men the-re and there were
the purpose of the picket was to keep outstarted in 1937, but I remember
n-1a'lln§- 1'11-92n run an-I l'I'GI'92 q|92n~hH_t' I|III l lY Z. IQ Zllll 92 $ZlK'
no strangers. To my knowledge
U.Ii.'.'7. non.
"I don't recall receiving any notice oi the desire of the meage-
nent to reopen the nine in December 1937. However, I received a notice
from the National Leber Relations Board and from the U.1£.'I.'. about the
election in t'1at month. I wont to the election voluntarily, and voted
for the P.II..'.. in the State Armory, Springfield, I11. Nobody told no
hoe to vet-e at this electieni I received
official at the election place, and votedmy ballet from e govemeent
1'0! P.II..1.
"Prior to the open f the nine in 1939 Andy Schrclevious anda man from St. Louis known come to my house and asked no to
Join the U.ii.T.. They told me e mine wcxlld open as soon as the 8.1!.-.7.secured B majority of the miners. mid not 1:-orkod in the nine
prior to the strike, and I think th: he was rought here by the U.I£."'.
to organize for U.I.t.'..'.
"I received e. notice {rm Igne B that the nine was going to open
in November 1939. I ms told that Because the roan in which I h.d worked
had caved in, ther. nus no work for me
notified rzhcn there was a room for me.
nine and started to work again at Hino
at the nine, but I don't lmow hex: muchat
B.
it
-445-that time, but that I would W
Later I received a notice from the
There had been some cave-ins
would h.|ve cost to open the mine.
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Re: JOHN 1.. 1£.':.".ts, ETAL
!="7¢_'/ bqb .
"After the mine ope ed in 1939, $ and hisQ buddy, 1180 kn-J'.1n ® b~t 0 . -'ere Iran as.continu "~ I Louis, c ::1e to no at the nine, am told no
- that if I did not sign up with TJ'.3§.'.'.'., I wouid not have
my Job. They merely talked to me, and did not threaten me. At this time
I was working in the nine with éndz Schrolevious, who did not speak to neabout Unite.-0 PIN'IERVIE' .' '..I'1I-F
"'..'hi1e working; in I.ne B after 1939, I know that U.H..'.'. non were
gcttinj better rooms in vkhi to work than P.I£..'92. non through the man-'1_r_3e-
nent's favorinr U.Ii.'.'..
"Prior to the no "
U.II.'..'. In the election of February
liked that union better than U.H-ET.
"I don't recall when I joined U.I.{."7. in 1941, but it was shortly
after the eiection. I oniy signed up with U.i§.T.. so that I eouid get a
Job at 1-{inc B. I still preferred P.II.A. 9292
"On the dey of the election in February 1941, the officers of
YU.II.T.. soelce to the miners in Ltine B and told them to vote ier
They said that they hzd to vote for U.3I.'.'.., er Mine B would not open up.
Theyalso seid that Elshoff would not recognize P.II.is- The statements b f
these men scared many of the miners who then voted for U.1I.;;. -
KK_l 4-
"Lilli st-=tc-neat eonsis '* -* F"- W other t;:eeT1ttenpages has wen rend to me by .'1nd I state that __
is true to the best of z-gr know e go a re-co c ion. " "
I
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Re: Jew L. LETIS, El AL' L 7c/ L/VD
Immv .. mm was interviewed near _
, by Special Agents '
which time he executed
a signed statement. writesEnglish rm-1y well. and quitthe mine: in 1939 He did not take an ties at "1 . _ I any time and, therefore, hls knowledge of facts pertinent to this investiga-
tion is meager. It is beliewod he will make only a fair witness due to his
lack of pertinent information. Hc has been in ill health for a number of
" years and has no known criminal record.
The following is the signed statement obtained from _
$111. _ Sap ember 1, 1943
"1 make the following voluntary statement to -
and ho are Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of
nvcs igation. o throa s or promises of any kind have been made to get me
to make e statement and I know it may be need in a court of law.
n -I---III.--IIIIII--_ _ _ g--I was born I came to U. S. in?
and B.m a citizen of U. S. such 'citi:.enship ' v - n derived throng
rents. I be an uorkin in the mine at and joined U.N.Y.'.A.
my P1 e s ~
than in- I have never held any office in any union.
About -1 began working at Mine "B" as an entry driver.
In 1952 I changed from U15-' to PHI». because the U.M.Z.'. dues were too high.
As for as I know the miners and Elshoff got along Ok up until the
strike in 1937. There were no strikes or close-downs during this time.
"I did not hear of any labor spies at Ifine "B" prior to the strike._"'-"'--u
".'.s far as I could see there was no difference in the wage scale of
the two unions before the strike in 1957. I did not know of aw spies working
at Iiinc "B" and I did not know that some men were expelled from P.EZ.I.. forbeing spies. I remember on the day of the strike my buddy 1sked
me if Hale had seen me about joining U.1i.'-I. I said no and he to d me that
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if-._'Re: JOHN L. U1-'15, ET LL.
kl Aw
IFTERVIER-' ITITH "1 don't recall signing any petitions in the owner of 1951. . '
I H new in the paper that the mine was going to reopen but
continue
time in October 193? the Union came around and told us
each men would have to s end so much time picketing at the mine. I picketedfor about a. week or two .D¬l came home.
"I was not present when the injunction" was served on the pickets.
I hoard some way or sew in the paper that the mine would reopen just after
the injunction but I did not go to the mine to work.
In December 19257 I voted in tho NLRB election and in my estimation
it was just as fair an election as it could possibly be.
"1 quit paying dues to PJLA. at the time of the strike and I did
not join any union after that. I quit working in the mines and did not
pay any attention to them after I voted in the election in 1937.
< i8n°°7
".Titnees0d:
Special Agent, F.B.I. signed!
SP. FuB0In! I110.
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RE: JOHN L. IEFIS, ET AL
-J.
. ; III! -TILLIAM II. RYAN The following is a resume of the interview
conducted. with Ir. WILLIAM IL HAN, 8,01
. South Dou==,las, springfield, by snecial
A_,ent in Charge FR"2D ILALLFORD and Special Agent _on the b 7 C
' afternoon of -august 25, 19162
' Kr. RIM! is 62 years of a_;e, is retired from the coal business
and presently resides at Bel South Doubles, Springfield, Illinois. Previous
to his retirement in the Fall of 1-31.1, at which time he sold Springfield
Mine "A" to CARL ELSHOFF, subject in this case, he had operated this
mi ne 1' or approximately 19 years both under the United Mine "orkers and the
Progressive Line Worl-cers of [92mgI_i£_3.
shes the break csze between the United Mine Jorkers and eh
now known as the Progressive Liine '-iorkers of America in 1932, Hine "A"
and liine "B" employees decided that they desired to be represented by the
Progressive I-Line "orkers of nmerica. At that time Mine "A" was shut down
and L11". RY§.}I called a meeting of his ernployerrs and asked them what they de-
sired and they stated they desired to obtain a contract under the Progressive
Liine "orkers oi America. Accordin ,1y, Hr. RYAII entered into a contract with
this union and continued this relationship until the sale oi_the nine inthe ea1_{l:g_1?gl__l_,,o§ 1941- "Q W M " " " "_""_
The matter of making a contract was handled through the
Coal Producers Association. This association, according to Hr. RIAH, was
"completely dominated by four or five of the largest coal mines in the state
and all agreezaents entered into which bound mines being operated by the
1'rogressive iliners worked more or less to the particular benefit of these
four or five nines. In order to belong to this association, it was neces-
sary to pay a small tax upon each ton of coal mined amounting to approxi-
mately one or two mills. Hr. RIM? stated that he felt personally the bene-
fits derived from membership in the Coal Producers Association were not
worth the expense and, subsequently, he dropped out although still making
his contract with the Progressives in accordance with the former rules.
111'. RYAN had no definite information concerning the situation
of Hine "B" and CARL EISHOFF but felt that ELSHOFF dropped out oi the coal
Producers association for possibly the same reason as he did.
At the height of its power, Ur. RYAN estimated that the Progres-
sives had between 60% and 755 of all miners in Illinois in their union. -
This union has steadily declined due to tho raiding of Progressive Hines -
by the United Mine Tlorkers and by the United Mine 1»-0lkere' buying off the
outstanding organizers for the Progressives.
The mine workers in Nine "B" included some of the most radical
element of the Progressives, several of whom were convicted in Federal
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ran Jan: L. Lsrxs, er AL
I?»TI'BHVIL" T-'l'1'H TIILLIAE? H. RYAN Court of Violence in connection with the
continued! ""' uh mine bombing cases. Hr. RYAN informed that
numerous difficulties arose at Mine "B"
bet -we-athe Pit Committee and the 1£ana_;cnent and that there were, in fact,
work sto;.pa;__'_%I_Short duration lasting ]J8I11B.p5 as long as two or three
days. It also appeared that the Progressives at Hj,ne.L'Bl' were able to obtain
concessi ms which were outside the scope of the contract which the Proges-
sives had with that mine. In spite of these difficulties, Hr. RYAI was of
the firm opinion that the men at both Mine -YB" and {line "A" were content
to be members of the Fro;-essive union and so iniicaftedntheir desires in
the elction held in 1937, at which there was an overwhelming majority of
_ votes for the rrogrcssives as the bar ;aini:?g a,ent for them at -Mine "B".
Durin; the time that Hr. R1!-Ti o;.erz.ted Hine "A" he was not aware
of any raidin,_-; tactics ct a_;itotion of the United organizers at his nine.
Pr-evious to the strike in Hay of 1937 Hr. P.LI;.II advised that ELSE-IOFF had com-
plained to him on v.".J"i":ns occasions concerning his difficulties with the
Progressive liincrs and i:1.i'::t-rd some inclinati ans toward the United Mine
Jorkers. Hr. REA!-T attributed scar-2 of the difficulties arisin; at I-fine "B"
to the overbearing tactics of the Mine 5u;mrintcndent, OSCAII FALCETTI. .
These officials were reluct nt to deal with the officials of the Progressive
I-iine llorkcrs and he knew of actual occasions when EISHOFF had either ordered
or run D..j}_LEclLL, Progressive Ifinc official, off the Mine "B" propert;*,'.
This activit;', it should be noted, was carried on prior to the strike in
3221;, 1937. Hr. Rl'A1!'s comments l1_ '>0!'1 nhcther or not any other nattc.-rs, such
as wages, entered into difficulties actually precipitating the strike
on Fay 12, 1937, were that EISHOFF had stood just all he could from theProgressives and closed the mine rather than deal with them further. How-'92,ever, Air. Rim?! is positive that would never have closed this mine
for arQ,'"'Lhin_; more than on a temporary basis, unless he had received defini
assurance that his expenses for the upkeep of the mine would be insured
' Hr. Rm: estimated um it would cost mssorr between * coo and '
o keep his mine in shape durin; the time it was shut .
1 the mine He was ans:-= t EISHOFF h owner, a 1ir'%:?TTZF-.5 of Peoria, linois, who is also the lessor or ne
"B". Insofar as he kne , ;I.SHOF'F kegt the mine in __;ood shape and when it
opened in November of 1-J39, it would have required only two neeks' work
cleaning; up to put it in full operation. This would have necessitated an
initial outlay of from $10,000 to $12,000. In accordance with the usual '
custom of -aa;,e payments, ELSHQFF would not have had to pay his miners any
-wages until thirty days after operations were started, at which time he
should have been minin_; enough coal _to meet his payroll and maintenance
expenses. '
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E: JOHN L. I..E'.'.'I5, ET AL
IIITERVIE.'.' TTITI-I L1. RYAN The following facts were related by Ir.
""" """""".f RYAN relative to the sale of Mine "B" to
ELSHOFF: '_'"_"-
He and ELSHOFF h:.d been trying to got together with the mine
owner in Peoria relative to the purchase of a small railroad which would
facilitate the moV;:r::e"t of coal from both nines and result in a consider-
able reduction of operation and transportation evcpense. E151-IOFF proved to
be the stumbling block in these negotiations in his final refusal. to partic
pate and at that time, which was in the latter part of april, 19:11, iii.
RY;-sl'T made the idle remark to ELSHOFF that he was {going to get out of the
mine business and was ready to sell his ziine. ELSHOFF promptly asked him
how much he would take fur his pro_=>er".3'. KIM] Ias surprised and stated he
would have to consult 1-sitl. the accountants and make an inventory of the
properties before he co.".'sd make an BSti"1-'..t ., but s+.a;.e'i it would be around
$60,000. ELSHOFF info:/ms-d th;.t he thought ,I2rh-tips his pt-301316 might be inter-
ested in making a ;Jurch.=.-_-e at that price. F._'¢.1I thought ELSIIOFF was joking
and gave the mttcr no .-..n'*.'92er attention until he received a telephone call
from FJ]_SHOFF from some point in "L:consin r=.;ain inquiring as to ho-r mach he
' " I1-a1-
vould sell the nine for. It1i,shin,;__i11.§1isconsm- m:x " ' ' - t__gf DistrictUnited lline Ziorkers, and anothrr Person by the na After
Clcoznglete invzntory of his proferties, RI...N informed ELSHOF 1a was
valued at $75,000 and that was the price that he would accept for his lease.
stated that he did not feel his people would pay that much. 1
5
made by BLSHOFF with H'.;'.I1 on this matter,
e-sHI'|§Igu|49292u-92 '14- T-§1q~n192'|.rQ.rg _.._§cnr9292I92|:'=!'92 '|I:I92'92Q@A3 -DQJ!_!.92 -A-I-.-L92|lJ-J IZV hi.-I-J.92'GH-ZKUKI ".L|JL¢92.!llQJ-$8, il.lli;J,G
alcoholic cure. _ - Two more contacts were
both hein,; by tizlephone from some
ELSFOFF was pllrportcdly L.kinf_ an
In vie"-v of the fact that his lease was expirin-. within a few
months, Li:-. R131" decided that ii he was propositioned ag-'.in by EISHOFF he would
make the sale, but only on the condition that ELSIIOFF would make a down-payment
of $l_Q,QQQ to shoja his__good faith and 34,298 to certain other stipulations.
f-'1£?"rn;. 1e'f¥;?,n¢-i§e instictions -am. his Sup rintendent, n. 02- B.-*:.':='r, at
Mine "A" and went on a vaction trip to Seattle, Jashington. He had hardly
arrived at Seattle, liashington, when he received a call from 111-= .BF_¬.i'1 that
l1r3'92-JURLEY and OSCi.R F.ulCE'ITI had come to his office and wanted to complete
the sale of Mine "$1.". Hr. Rl;.1-I instructed BEST to confer with F4J.CETTI and
-1- URLEY to see if they were in accord with I-hr. RYAII's stipulations on the
sale. Ho subsequentl. received a call from BEST stating that a counter-
offer had been made givin_; the details, and that GOURLEIY and FALCETTI felt _
that $5,000 was all that they cmld place on dePosit. Ilr. RY!? countered
with the proposition, accepting the $5,000 retainer and outlining the pro-
visions under which he was willing to sell. GOURIEY and F..LOETTI who were OD
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RE: JOHN L. LEIIS, ET AL
IN1ERVI'E' '..ITII 1.II.LL'.I.' 1!. RYAN the telphone at that time stated they would
continued! confer with their attomey, Hr. BURIE, to
Ian if Q11 Ital: Qsv92.n¢:n!92"921.l:5Buy 4.5 I-la.-I. "Du B54 vuinuqbvc _
Mr. RYAN was subsequently notified that the terms were agreeable
and that ev;-riff-hing would be drawn up to complete the t.re..nsaction upon his
return to Springfield.
Hr RYAN returned to Springfield and found ,that,Qe_11ai§.e§_]_.j._:1_g |_with and F..LCETTI, instead of EISHOFF. The principal actor}
appeared to be BURKE, who gave Rim! his personal check for $5,000 as a re-
tainer. RY.-.11 then asked 1-.'her-" ELSHGTF 1-..;3, inasmuch as the original negcti=
ations were started by him, and he was informed that he was in Wisconsin
taking a cure. This information was given to RYIJ by FJLCETTI. RYAN then
asked who the principals 1.-ere who ELSIIOFF represented an-1 both GUUIZLEY and
F..LCI1TTI assured him thet they had the power to act and that Hr. BURKE, re-
prcser.tin; those principals, could handle the entire details. The trans-_
action nae completed andagcin a personal _Qheck of $5,~.!OO_§vas depositcdbyin-. even: at the First National Bane. A11 parses wont to the bank and an-.
RI..II received the $55,000 in cash.
Hr. RYnN was fairly certain that all the employees of his mine
were well satisfied with the re;:r.-seutation they were obtaining 1rom_ the
Progressives, with one or two possible exceptions. He recalled that one
of his engineers complained on one occasion of the excessive deductions
for the irogressivcs, indicating that it was round $23,00 or $2Z..OO. Accord-
in ; to Li:-. R121-I, these deductions were excessively heavy at that neriod,
inasmuch as the_, were made to defer expenses of the trial oi members cf the
Progressives indicted in the mine bombing cases. Hr. RYIJI was not familiariith
Liine
the
that
Mine
felt
Hine
Hinethe circumstances under which I;,;, n;= "1." crgardsed by the United
orkers. He stated there was an air shaft located on the line between
two properties of Mine "1." and Hine "B". However, he was not aware
this shaft had connected the two mines, although the workings oi ,
"B" were only a short distance from this shaft. As a business man he
it would have been impractical I or ELSHOFF to take out the coal in
"I." through Mine "B" with United employees if the shaft constructed for
"B" could handle only a certain amount of coal and such a course
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1=.s= JOHN L. u=.."..Is, ET AL V
INFERVIEI CITE '.TIlLLJ1 H. RYAN he, R'IAN,' had I10 I81!-hell! ELSHCFF'l
continued! "-"""-""_""" word or, particulorly, his finsncill
. ability to -meet his obligations. Later on
the Who. 11?".-.'.-=l*'?'&f_§
Hine "orkers. It was his understanding that ELSHOFF obtained a commissionit was I-Ir. Rlnws understanding that E1§HOFF obtained s much hotter desjhigpm [K
AD/I
"ol 5OF$'».nch would have been highly profitable inasmuch as the usual com- //
mission is not more than 12¢ or 15¢ a ton. -
_}g1e92'.' that stssprr .-".t tint ,t1n3_ns.~: attempted topurchase i anth.cn_CI9..Qk Nine £555 its ___g:r__nEr*! 'G n0RGfz?fJ_LO_E_§QI_I.u_ElSi-TOP? also *92
spoke to I-ir. Rl'i~.II about 92thewpossihle purchase of other nine located in
bouthern Illinois in Bond County, which was organized by the .rro;;rcssives.
I-11'. H1342. advised that ELSHOFF attempted to purchn so another Progressive mine
located in Fulton Uounty. Ho said that these negotiations were probably
can-ied on with a person by tho name of BQ-;}¥&G'ls1I{ of Fulton County.
ans m92rnc.~n1nu, -u1wuul» ,
3.5 not en-The irifornation concerning the alleged meeting of Ls
dis Mine "
'U1.-I.-IV.{_N and ELSE-IOFF imz.-11 t
lar Lir. RYAN
orniition should be
source as to its reliability. _
Perhaps the most pertinent thing discussed with Kr. RYAN was his 92
conversation uitl1_B._;_,.ED;'U1.'Il5Q1I es-zl<,' in .1 9j_g_Qp_cer;1ir;;_ooll§Qora_tion 4_
the Fnitcd lI:Tne"'l-iorkers in their organizati. mal efforts in 1~Q:_923__'§g". Hr.RLJI stated that EDEIUIIDSOII called him dmni to his office in the United Bins
T-orkers uilding and after discussing general matters finally cane to the
point of the interview-', asking Lir. R.Zit11'_Ihat he "thought of the United Nine
Iorkers. Ur. RIL".II's answer was more i less non-committal as he stated he
ha-1 nothing against the United Mine -4 rkers, and than EDIIIIIDSOE countered
with the proposition that he, RYJI, pterp_i_nto_som|o_sort oi an s.j._;;'ee1aent or
deal with "EDIIUTIDSUH in order _¬'he.tt 3" could get thelfrogressivos out of
Kine "A". RIM! then told ED3'UIID30U hat he could not do such A thing that
he 1-ranted to "go to bed at 31:-.1-jT1't w h a clear conscience". EDHUNDSOIJ then
asked what Rl'a'.IJ th ught that GEOR LIVAH at Panther Creek or another
operator at some other Progressive Mine 1=:ould do along those lines. RYAN ,_
told EDHUIIDSO!-I that he would have to see BORED SULLIVLJI to find out about Q;
that, that he was running Mine "IL" and that he could not and would not 7
enter into an; such proposition. . _
lirin¥.Iv-T _Qnuun --pr Fl.-'-.32: e.-nversst-ion with 1;1m_II~ll925OH , RIAH received the U
definite inpression that if he were out any expense during the organizational-Ifeffort oi the United lline '-Jorkers, ED!-1UNDSOIJwould Like care 01 him. to-. I;
RYAN atated that he told EDI-EUNDSON that he Wouldn't have anything to do with
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RE: aoeu L. mas, ET AL
IIITERVDT. TITII IJILLIILII IE. RYJ.LNm' such a proposition, that BVGD if he Ién
continued! through with it, after United had organized
Mine "L" they would simply turn on him then. '
This tsnainated the interview and he was never approached again by EDHUNDOi.
In commenting on the current situation at hing :AP and hing jgf
Mr. Rln felt that a number of employees were entirely dissatified with the
situation as far as the United Mine Workers were concerned and, particularly,
with EISHOFF for whom they had very little use. In fact, he knew of some
of the miners who would not even speak to ELSEOFF. Again, he attributed
most of the di;_iculties at Mine "B" to the overbearing and non-conciliatory
attitude of F LCETTI-
_ Inasmuch as it will n_ necessary to interview Hr. RYAN from time
to time in the cause ci this investigation, no si,ied statement was taken
from him in connection with the preliminary interviet.
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RE: JOHN Ls LEWIS, ET LL
INTERVIEW WITH Ir. ROBERT C. SOLOIIQI who resides at B10 Booth Glenwood
ROBERT C. SOLOMIII Avenue, Springfield, Illinoi, is resently ,_ths_§re_s_idg_1!t_"*" pf Panths1:__Cr99k_c_Ql_§9!QP§B¥ *h1<=E1= located in Bprinsr
field, also. Mr. §OLOMm maintains an _oics in th§_E1ddge]:y__Bl1_j.1_d92,f_l_X1$_!~!i_»_d__!3-3
interviewed by Special Agent relative to any approach which was
made to or to officials of his cunpany by Ei'!l-TJ"n'IJSOIi in 1957 relatiie
to closing down the Per1ther_Creek__liir_i_e_s in order that they might be organised
by the United Mine Workers of America. He was also interviewed for any de-
tails concerning recent attempts by subject CARL H. ESEFF to purchase the
Panther Creek Hines.
llr. SOLOMON, who was very cooperative, advised that he had heard
that hi brother, GEDRG.-3 QLOl_aLQ_N__, who is now dead, W215 §.PP1fcao}_i_ed m.__
MUHDSON several years 23:-, and at that time FI_LlU192IDSOI~' attempted to persuade ,.
% shut down the Fan:-her L-reek Eines i- order that organization oi these
mines could be undertaken by the United Mine Workers oi America. The Panther
Creek Mines according to Mr. SULOMQI have been organized by the Pro essiline Work_e_1_*_a,_9§f__§L;'5!9Ii.'-dl since the inception of this union in 1932"'E. !
Hr. SOLOMON informed that the first negotiations relative to tpossible purchase of the Panther Creek Mines were made by 11:". HARRY ,
a. representative of the Baltimore & C-hio Railroad Co. who resides in ic-ago,
Illinois. Hr. ALLEN first approached Hr. SOLOECN regarding this matter in
the s92_r_m..ner of l94l= .Lg_o;'c_1in5_ to My-_. _§ .lL_-Q1-£Ell,!-LLE w..sn.ras;-onsihle p_i_o_z_'_I__>::in;g,:
ing ESHOFF into the picture. H.-SHOFF had several telephonic conversations
with Mr. SOLOMON duringe period of severgil months__ relative to the propoea_l_
to purchase the mine. In the initial stages they were particularly interestec
in the Auburn Mine which, although shut down, was potentially a very produc-
sented by two attorneys, Hr. L. EFFERLE and Hr. JOHN H BARBER, who havetive mine. '1-I
During these negotiati . SOLOIILN stated thaxxlae was repre-
offices in the Reisch Building. . SOLOMON stated that he finally insisted
that if ELSHOFF were actually interested in the purchase of his mines that _.
they have a conference. This conference was held on l_l_, l9_42_,~ in the_.--l'
offices of the Panther Creek Company at which time Hr. BOLOHCN was present
with his two attorneys, and ELSHOFF alone. There they came to a more or less
definite agreement as to what the proposition would be and letters were QI-
ehanged regarding the same, the originals of which were obtained from llr.
sateen.
it that time llr. SOLO!-5- II stated that he desired to ICIIOW just what
the financial ability of ELSHOFF was to enter into such s contract which
would involve at least $400,000.0Q.. Hr. SOLOMON stated that he asked Hr.
H»SHOFF where he would obtain the money and _ELSHOFF told him, __"You ought tom
lmow . Hr. BG..C.ON informed that it was cumrmn knowledge around Springfield
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RE: JOHN L. LHFI8, 1'1 AL
INTEIRVIEY WITH among coal operators and those interest in coal mining
seesaw c. SOLGIICI that sosaors had obtained money for the lii_;|:e._'.'.B" and 1
contTn1.TET-I line "A" ventures from the United Kine»: Workers of Americaland JOHN L. L-ERIE. In fact, lline "3' is commonly I
referred to as JOHN L. LEXIS mine. However, at this meeting or at no othe
time did ELSHOFF indicate that he actually did obtain the money from the United
I-line Workers. Hr. SOLOMON had been advised, however, from sources whose re-
liability could not be ascertained, th§J:_.ET.¢5li¬il1.1rin'g__th_e___£.me oi these
negotiations mngm%a.m%
'1. LE|92fIS_and s.rrange___§fo;j,1'ir_;s,nci.11g,.._._..___
It was Hr. SOLOION's belief that his attorney, PEFFERLE, took more
than a casual interest in what was going on with reference to the possible
sole of the Pe,nthe_1f__Prcek ]:J'.i.n.e.B to ESHOFF, and possibly acted as a go "between.
PEFFERLE on onewfir two occasions said that he was convinced that ELBHOFF could
obtain the money and would live up to his contract. Hr. SOLQ-'lON lcnew tint
ELSHJFF would have, therefore, financial backing because before entering into
any negotiations at all with ELSHOFF he had made an appropriate inquiry into
ELSHOFFs financial responsibility, and lmew that In personally did not have ']
the money to purchase the Panther Creek Hines.
92
Mr. SOLOMON stated that after H.SHJBF's mine closed in lay of 1937 the purchased coal from the Panther Creek Company in order to satisfguhis i
custcsners. This cocl was purchased outright and sold by ELBHOFF. ring thecourse of these transactions ELSHOFF became deeply indebted to the Panther i
creek company and Mr. SOLOMQJ advised that eventually he had to settle for y$4,000.00 or £5,000.00 less than the contract price in order to get his money,
out of ELSHOFF. After that he did not deal any further with ELSHOFF because -N
of his unreliability. K.
Itvlas after this that ELSHOFF began dealing with the PeabedLCoaL
Company, and ii? IFa§§jI3-T-SOLUl1¬7H**r'ur:d~ersta11dtr1g"thst**arrangennents were made
through L ,1t fhi cage rHmi ESEFT
acted only as a broker g e coal, and that all dell , ~.
invoices, etc-, were made out by'the Peabody cclnpeny, giving ELSHOFT only a I
commission on whet he sold. Ir. SOLOMON understood that this was a 16% can-mi scion on all soles; however, he could not be certain, and was of the opinion//~""
that if an inquiry Ieremdireatedh toJ£r...REED he Ieuld.I!5'£'§¥.J1Ono§t1:y concern» '
ing these details. Mr. SOLOMON had also heard that during the period in which
lline "B" was shut _d_q:1!_n_|I0HN_L4_LE!='Il§ 11_ece.n__1_e:_:nore or_1q5_§ ..¬1T_L_!r5!-;B__,1I-:o:_<'1_ with ELSHOFF
and ct one92¬ime,_ through Er. REED attempted to persicde the Peabody'U5§l=*U&'ip*e."ny 0
t092¢E.'k6"¥-116 Kmi!19 Off hi! hhhdle K-_ '_ " ;" *1 -<' W ""'t""""""-;,1--I-'~'-i'-tar-";.*-'..i_c,___.
_f .special Agent ho was at the time of this interview in '
Chicago, Illinois, making inquiry into certain matters pertaining to this case,
was telephonicelly contacted and furnished with pertinent information concern-ing REED and LLEN as obtained from llr. SOLOMON. conduotad appropris-to
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RE: JOHN L. LEWIS ET AL 92
_ FINTERVIEW WITH inquiry which appears also in this r §tL¬3§;_1£Q-,&Q1-QM-W - I '
tt rn PEFFERL , not to be interh continued! Inasmuch as the a o ey, E '
viewed until after an interview wi INDMARBH, Repre-
sentative of CIO, no signed statement was taken from Hr. I&HKH'inasmuch as
the details of this picture are not complete as yet. However,_the followingletters v.'e_'e volurzt-Wily furnished to Special Agm y Hr. BQLQCNwhich pertain to the ettmpted negotiations by ELS to purchase the mine. /
It is noted in ELSHOFFs letters that he continuelly refers tO.Iel. It is
difficult to ascertain whether by this expression ELSHOFF was refering only
to himself in a collective sense or whether it also included other individuals-
These letters are set forth es follows:
June ll, 1942
Hr. Carl H. Elshoff
"Springfield, Illinois
Dear Hr. Elshoff:
"Eh is to confine our discussion this morning, wherein it was in-dicated thgtfégnther Creek Mines, Inc. is willing to lease to you all of its
coel mining properties, with the option to purchase or to renew, all on the
following basis. .
Term of Lease: 10 years.
Rent: Royalty basis of 10 cents per ton on production; minimum
royalty of $90,000 per year.
"Taxes, Insurance and Repairs:
To be paid and carried by Lessee.
"Additional Coal Rights: Lessor to purchase and provide all ad-
ditional coel rights which Lessee may require for the cons
tinued operation and development of the mining properties;
or, on failure so to do, Lessee to have privilege of acg
quiring, at Lessee's expense, such additional coal rights
with a credit of five cents pertton on coal produced there-
from.
Personal Property: Lessor will sell to Lessee, st invoice price
or other fair present value, all explosives, supplies,
mined coal, unused ttimber, mules, unused repair parts
and replccments, and unused tangible personal property
used or for use in the operation of the mines.
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RE: JOHN Ls LEWIS, ET AL
INTERVIEW WITH
ROPERT C. BOLGHDHI .- .-9292OU'!'!'t1IllJB] ' '
'Guarant : Lessee to deposit in Springfield Karine Bank¥e00,000 to be held in escrow and invested in Lessor!
collateral note for that amount, payable to lessee in in
installments of 240,000 per year, with 3% interest, by
credit on royelties. The $400,000 to be actually used
, in taking up all indebtedness of Lessor and its Presi-
dent to said Bank including approximately $250,000 in
bends = liens on the coal mining properties of Lessor;
said bands to be n~t cancelled but held as collateral
securiay for the peynent of said collateral note-
"Retnil Office: Lessee to take over Lessor's city retail
office rent end other incidental expenses, from the
time of transfer of possession of mines.
Options: At the expirnticn of the ten year lease, Lessee to
have alternate options:
A! To purchase the leased properties for $400,000,
plus nmcunts hereafter pnid_by Lessor for addi-
tional coel rights, with 5» interest thereon;
or,
" B! To renew the lease for another ten years on same
terms, with further option to purchse the leased
properties at the end of extended period for
§l00,000, plus amounts hereafter paid by Lessor
for additionql coal rights, with 3% interest thereon.
"This of course is only for prompt acceptance as to major terms,
with the understanding thatinecessnry details be worked out later.
Yours truly,
President"
"July s;1~.;'>1942
"Hr Robert C Bolomon Pres., if _. I I .-.- ~ IPanther creek Mines, Inc.,
§3prin§f'iETBT'TItir1o'tr'~
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RE: JOHN L. LEWIS, EH AL
INTERVIEW wxm
*3?.!i?E$___?__-_.?.-91:§1'§?-*1
{continued}
'Referring?to your proposition of June llth, 1942 in which you
outline s plan for the sale of your mining properties.
"The erran¢ement suggested is not satisfactory, and we decline
to accept it in its form. 1 em still interested in buying these mines and
am willing to meet with you and with your consent sutmit to you a proposi-
tion in different form and possibly at a lesser value.
First, we hope in a discussion of the matter to establish a
fair value of the properties and then to arrive at a satisfactory method
of payment of them. I might soy now there is no objection to advancing
the $400,000.00 as outlined.
"Awaiting your reply indicating that you are interested in re-
ceiving such s proposition, I am,
Yours serv tru1v- V J _"
/s/ CARL s. assess"
'Springfield, Illinois
October 50:11, 1942
Mr. Robert C. Solomon, '
Panther Creek Hines, 1nn.,
°pringfield, Illinois
"Dear Sir:--
"It is with great difficulty that we approach the subject of 1
fair value on your mining property known as line~l-huburn, Illinois. This
mine he been in e State of Abondonment since April 1927. The condition
of the equipnent below is veryfuncertain as well as the natural conditions.
Bubject to a complete inspection, we submit the following proposition.
We are willing to purchase this property under the following
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IHTERVIBY WITH
ROBERT C» SOLQEQN
continued! '
At the end of the four year term, the Lessee shall have the
option to purshase all of the property so leased for 0. sum of $50,000.00,
at which time a good and su1:£'icient title shall be given.
In submitting this, we realize that many details will have to
be worked out.
"Truly yours,
/£/ CARL H. 21.5301-1""
Hr. SOLGJCDT st=.ted that these efforts to negotiate the sale simply
fizzled out in the fell of 1942, for what renson he was not able to determine.
A signed staternentwill be taken relative to all of these matters as soon
as Er. PET"FE'R.LE and Hr. BARBER are interviewed. Hr. SOLCHON advised that
his books relative to the sale of coal to ELSHOFF would also be available
for review. In the event this is deemed advisable it is anticipated that
this phase of the investigation will be conducted by Speciel Agent _
1: we i
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FEDERAL BUREMI DF IIIVESTIGATIDI
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1m*z.ev1s:»' WITH Special Agentépon Septembcfl, 1943 57.cease.-3 int_cr'viewed an-. one 1.-. REED, Vice President, Peabody Q.
Chicago, Illinois. Coal Company, Room 2020, 231 South LaSalle Street,
Chicago, Illinois, telephone nuzner nndover 2345- L11". FEE! has some faint
recollection that on two or three occasions MY EIJRJTNIBCII mentioned to him
that he {E"..=-1-fdIBc3{1I} hated to see I-SLSIQFF d_e:'._l__§-'it}a Panther Creek Hines,
2. 11110531?-?§Si¢£;-Hinel{or}<e;fs __0.f_¢gg'?1I'Ifi,__;§-292___11JJ',I"1E:, during the strike _period_gt_
1.11. REED was mable to recall the exact time-.or instanceswhen these remarks were made by EDIT-.llfD¬-£13. lie pointed out that since his I
company has dealt over a long poriod'of years with the United Mine iiorkers
of america, which is now ieaied by I~'.11"1' IT1§T~'IT{"T~'II, he sees EDTTIIIBSGQ
frequently and does cons"'|:1erabl~. business with him. Concerning tlte price
for which brokerage coal was sold to I-J.'L51~1'OF., REES stated as follows:
He said that £1.51-lei-F approached lam for the purchase of coal from
the Peabody __ ;_oa__l_Co_r;pa_r.y and that since EI..~3HuFF was a neighboring coal
mine operator in the vicinity of Springfield and since it is the custom
of one coal mine to help out anoth-:.~r during a. strike shutdown or mine
disaster, he agreed with ELSHUFF that he would sell him some coal. How-
ever he did not agree to sell him all the coal that EISHDFE wanted.
llr. R£T.'E1'D further stated that since he was doubtful of EI£>HOFF's financial
status and ability to pay, that he wrote up a letter which was in the nature
of an agreement or contract, addressed to H181-IOFF, stating the terms upon
which coal would be sold. He could not recall the exact terms of the
letter or the prices stated. He said that he did not know what price
LLSHOFF had purchased bro.-ccrage coal for from the Panther Creek Hines.
He also stated that he was positive that he would not allow IJLSHOFE
any such exorbitant figure as 50¢ _a ton for coal. He said that during
part of the time when BLSHOFF was purchasing brokerage coal that his company
became very doubtful of ElSHOF"5"s financial status and ability to pay; that
at this time when orders for coal were received from ELSHDFF, the Peabody
Coal Company actually loaded the cars, directed them to the purchaser,
collected the purchase price from the purchaser, and then returned to
LISHOFF his commission.
HI. REED further advised that when he first talked with ELSHOFP
concerning the purchase of brokerage coal, that he told him that i.n V10?!
of his financial status IJLSHOFF night have to pay cash in advance for any
coal purchased from Peabody.
Hr. REED also stated that he has often wondered how ELSH§!FfE gas
able to pay the royalties duo on Mine "B" while it was shut down, but
more astomding than that, he has often wondered how was able to
entertain as lavishly and in as much extravagance as ho did. He said
that ELSHOFF never rented a. room in a hotel, but always rented a suite,
-463-
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Re: JOIN L. LEZJIS, ET AL. 4
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Re: JOIN L. LE-418, ET at.
IITERVIL-"".J JITI-I
ozone: REED,
ChicagoT1Ilinois. He stated that this was well known to coal mine.-
bontinued! operators generally.
Iir. REID advised that he could vaguely recall some conversation
e1 mwmmmm_ge@mwa1 Companyta 1-Hz; eve:-__1__Lin_c .'131~lom.
matter. He said"t'EF=.'t his answer at that time would have been that thePeabody Coal Company did not want GI1:[_QQ1CJgi!_'1§S as they alreadygmad at that
timgimrsl 1:1ir.c_;s than they wanted. He stated ELSHOFF was unable o 1-mien
Fay information lcjoncez-nirfg ihieifassbciation of JOEN L. LEWIS, C.tR.L ELSHOFF
and R..Y EDLTIIHSCN, other than that people in the coal business took it for
granted that C..Rl. ELSHON and JOIN L. LEWIS are good friends. He advised
that he had never seen these two together.
Hr. Fu'IT.D further stated that he will cause a search to be made of
the records of his company, presently located in a district warehouse, to
deterznine whether or not a copy of the letter which he wrote to ELSHOFF and
which contains their agreement for the sale of coal is still in existence.
He said he will also have :1 starch made for the ledger records or any other
records showing the amount of tonnage, sale price and commission or any
other figures which may be available in connection with the ELSHOFF accomt.
Hr. RLD advised that the situation between the employers and the
employees is and has been tense for some time; that he is operating without
any contract at this time with the United Itine Yorkers; that his company
has always been a United Mine iiorkcrs Company, because of which fact he,
of necessity, deals with Rs! EDLELIIDBEI-I and JOH¬ L. L75wIS, since his company
is the biggest producer of coal in the State of Illinois. I-Ir. RE stated
that because of this fact he does not want to do ;.ny"0hi1'1g which would jeopar
dize his position with the Ihited Liine horkers or which would result in
his failure to secure a contract by the end of Uctobcr 1943. _H<_-__'°_.9_il'lI-B-5
out that the iaresent _in_vestj_gation h_as_mad<;_ DE!-'tterS_,,Bgm_~:_.'II'h¬1t_11Q_;0 tense
ifliiemeéiiomsith the @ael_<zY5r+¢melo;@e_reletiez1es1un. /Therefore he h-18
not decided whether or not he will furnish whatever information his files
disclose, of his own accord, to an investigator. He stated that he would
gladly furnish infornntion to the Federal Bureau of investigation if it
were not for the circumstances set out above and that he would be glad to
at least advise as to the nature of the information in his files. How-ever, becausc of his relationship with the United liinc '-iorkers, he saidhe much preferred that he be forced by subpoena to produce records rather
thin to furnish them volmtarily. _
-454-
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Re: JOHN L. LEWIS, ET LL.
IRHHAPU E- PIJCPK was interviewed on August 50-,1945,_-as-::_'.-:.==: -=---by Smc mdBOJARK is presently Personnel lanager of the isking
Corporation, 733 Goat 65th Street, C_-phic7a§joL ,His resi_denc'e
=dI?@§=* 5?3&."°="#F"°Y2 1?*3£?*'*r=:.*: °K1=*§?:.11? °*'.-. o
c e Re ional Director of NLRB at Unicagc, iliinois on lay_cl L#Qlg Inn/Springfield area Y *isinEluded in his jurisdiction. One LYHI
!/ BEAMAN was the Regicnalnireetor at Chicago preceding BAJQRK.
It should be stated at the outset that llr. BJJIRK could recall
little of the details
his own accord and wiconcerning the events in connection with this case
thout refreshing his recollection. At this time it
appears that he could only testify to matters which were made a matter of
official record in the NLRB files. llr. BJJGK does not recall
492._-_ nanv 1:1-rcrunnszs _..ITUID. 92vBI'Lb JhL»O£1U.I'1 D11
dismissal or the refusal to dismiss the twelve miners expelled
A on May ll, 1937, wamy inquiry
or not the
from PHI of
s an unfair labor practice. _B-LIOBKLQ_... _L...-..L 1:--- 10 10-211 ._.._._-....:...... ...L...4-1......Dr luuub may in; 1.90:, uuuuu:J..|..|..u5 IIJUULLUJ
recollection is concerned he does not believe that Hr. ELSHOFF ever made any
such inqui§y1-
Hr. BQJCRK
recorded on the photo
stated that probably,
-I PTIITHTHQHH J44-I an-.1-nu; In4.-Iuauuuuuvn u..&.u vuuacl an
in to attempt to find__ _ _ 7 7 W '7 t ~ _ _ i
recalls little more of his meeting with JOE OZANIC than
static copy of documents pertaining to this file. as
as OZAHIC previously advised this office, that RAY
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out what OZANIC had previously said. He stated that
in an attempt to solve the problem he called both OZANIC and EDMUNDSON into
his office for a conference. He did not recall the dates of this conference
but stated that the informal file of the NLRB in Chicago should contain
either a typewritten memo or a handwritten memo concerning these meetings.
able nuber
have told OZANIC that
against the DEW of A __9______ _ ____
Board could
investigation.of signatures. He stated that if such was the case he would
that petition alone was not enough to sustain charges
but that formal charzea would have to be filed that
not accept any such petition as evidence without their own
He did not recall definitely whether or not EDMUNDSON or WALTER
0. JiEc ever showed
as application cards or membership cards. As to the date of this meeting,
BAJORK was unable to make any definite statement. He cannot say definitely
whether it was on September B, or not.nim any petition or other rcnm of group signatures sucj
that ELSHOFF did not want to do business with the PNW of A but rather wantedBJJCRK stated it was his impression at the time and still is today!
to do business with the HEW of A. He believes that ELSHOFF feared some
members oi the HM Union who had been connected with bombing and terroristio1BLJCRK believes that OZANIC presented a petition to him containing a oonsidjj
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Re; JQHK L. LEHIS, E1 AL
INTERVIER BITE tactics. BLJQRK stated that he had gone to Spring-
LEONARD Q. BLQQRK field, Illinois, probably sometime in and sroud
continued; September, 1937, but he could not be positive as to
the date or as to whether it was before, after, or "
during the month of September. He stated that udoubtedly the records of
Region 13, NIRB, would reflect this trip.
Concerning the charges filed by PHW against_§ine B on Beptmber
7, 1957, EAJOK stated that it was his recollection that these charges
alone were not enough upon which to base a hearing on the question of an
unfair labor practice as such. He did state, however, that Ihen the
question arose and a hearing was had on the matter of representation which
was heard on October 25, 1937, that then the board threw the doors open
for charges of unfair labor practices andthe supervisors of the mine I
interfering with the activities of PHW, and the supervisor: refus to dis-
charge the twelve labor spies.
The writer questioned Hr. BAJQRK as to whether or not CARL
ELSHOFF, his supervisors, or Nine "B" might be guilty of an unfair labor
practice in the event they had discharged the labor spies on Hay 12, 1937,
as requested by PHIL or as to whether ELSHOFF might be guilty of an unfair
labor practice if he did not discharge these men when requested. Hr.BAJ£RK answered this question but stated that the answer would depend upon{92
the complexion, membership, and policies of the NLRB in Eashington, D. C. fi
at the tine; that membership on this board has changed from tine to time
and the policies on a question similar to instant one had changed depend-
ing upon membership and policies of the Board. '~
Mr. BAJCHK said that employers usually in situations where there
was a dispute between Unions did not sign up with either Union and sub-
mitted this matter to the NLRB for a consent election, a procedure for
which the NLRB was particularly fit to handle, and as a matter of fact,
of the reasons for a NLRB. He pointed out, however, that this was not
done in * °*= * case.ORB
nQLF dated October 8, 1957, wherein the file numbers XIII-R-125 and XIII-
473 are carried on the memo. ICJURK stated that these file nmbers
reveal that there were at least two matters before the ELBB. The '0
file number stands for a "Charge" case. The "R" file refers to a
"representation" case. He stated that it was his recollection that there
were two "Charge" cases and one "Representation" case involved in the line
lg" E.E.t§9!'e!<_z, Hr. PQJORK referred to photostatic copy of a memo to BENEDICT
Mr. BAJORK stated that, of course, while he was very close withthe Mine "B" situation that OS ITH, who is now Executive Secretary in /hashington, D.C., was at the t ield Examiner and was the man closest /_i;
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Re: JOE L. LEWIS, ET AL.
Ih"1"ERVIE RITH to the line '5" matter-
LECNARD C BLJ_ I 1-11' I _
Icontinuedj Mr. BAJQRK stated that it was his impression that
whatever RAY EIIEUNDSON said in connection with the matter, CARL ELSHOFF went along with, and conversely, whatever
" HOFF said in connection with the matter EIIEUHDSOH went along with.
Concerning the December 15, 1937 election after which Ill!
claimed fraud in connection with the election, Mr. BAJCRK said that he
was familiar with this claim on the part of Illfii, and that he, as a matter
of fact.at that time, caused an investigation to be made in connection -
with the election and found no fraud.
Reference is made to Bureau letter dated August 23, 1943, wherein I
the Criminal Division Ias a v d that a memo written on October 8, 1937, -by BAJKRK stated that J0 MT was a member of the Steel ;;ork:ersOrganization Committee ant! had suggested to BLJQRK that RAY EIHUNDSON of
the oi A was perhaps willing to reiterate his previous offer to oper-
ate iiine *3 provided the twelve suspended P:-%ressig_e__,1ine jg;-1;g;;,s were
permitted to return to the mine. In connection '. ith this matter, llr.
BAJQRK advised that Hr. DOHERTY then represented the Amalgamated Iron and
Steel Korkers Organizing Committee as Regional Director. This is a CIO
affiliate organization. ilr. BAJORK pointed out that at that time the UIIW
also was a CIO affiliate, and that probably DOHERTY's sole connection with
that matter was the fact that he acted as an intermediary in order to get
EILUNDSON and BAKJQRK together.
He stated ii his recollection was correct negotiations the
Mine "B" case had been at a stand still for some time and that probably
this move on the part of Emmrnson, using DOBERTY to bring the two men
together, was for the sole purpose of ascertaining what the status of
the Mine "B". case was with the NLRB at the time.
Concerning the name of 'BERTH.A", who u rvised the election of
December 15, 1937, Hr. BAJORK stated that JOHN HA was then FieldExaminer for the NLRB. He said that at the gndsont time, or
last tine B-%J.QRH knew oi his whereabouts, BERTEEA -was working
Pekin or Peoria, Illinois, with tho Keystone Yiire Company orat least the
either at
one of their
subsidiaries, and lived in a small town between Pekinland Peoria.
Ir. BAJQRX was asked as to whether there would be any question
as to whether members of the PHI Union would lose their status as miners '
for lino "B" after the strike had progressed for some time, and after tin
extension of the FM?! contract had expired, and subsequent to
ELSHOFF's signing of an agreement with Uli. Hr. EJJORK stated there was
&9292 . -.1 -.-I ' ..- I I92A nn1ne¥-is- nu 92-. 04-ll92J 921 $§UL@u L|92ll
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Re: JOHN L. LEWIS, ET L
INTERVIETC TIITH
LECLI.-'-RD c. s_g_ _mi
- assistance of material in the 13th_. "' '»1- _ '*-¢..
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In view of the fact that Ir. HUME stated that it
could recall little, and from his actions it Ill
apparent that he was stating the truth, without the
Region files of
V1313, 1:3. I-RANK KLEITER, Acting Regional Director, Region l8, ILRB, wascontacted Hr. KLEITER advised that all files pertaining to the line "B"
matter, including the informal file which would contain notes and memos
of the meetings with Hr. BLIGRK or other officials o! the HLRB and the '
.-92_-.-Jl .-.--an nu-A Q-.-I Aswan! ks"! km. aw! no-.|-no-An:-I 4-n Ln nlvlunr-I-nn inns-nr'l1nl'|'..n1'I7DBKPLUJUA ILA- A PL!-lk-I1-v;92-rwis nu uu use vs INA: uvu I-Iv :1-u-use-s.-I-lg vvu I-[rm vll-I-I-I-vv-.1
one month ago and hence was not available.
Hr. BAJLRK volunteered the information that after his resigna-
tion from NLRB, which was given as a result of his disagreement with cer-
tain policies and activities of the National Board in hashington, he served
as a labor consultant in and around Chicago, Illinois, until he accepted
his present position as Personnel kimiager.
92l_ DI! l92_.--LL.-.-.. -.-.1-----I--...-92.-.- I -A-Ln 1|-J-_-1-.J-i-_ L1-n-4 92-A Ian:11 UQJMHLB {HI Ulli-I V92J'.l.U-|-ll-»UUlUU~ Ull92-7 LIAJUJLHRUJ-Ull D418-U III, J-6-I
accordance with the "r.u-nvritten code of all government men had religiously
refrained from discussing or taking any part, or entering into any proh-
lems surrounding the Mine "B" matter. He stated as a matter of fact, RAY
EDMKJNDSON had contacted him after his resignation frcm the Board in
connection with the Mine "B" matter, but that he had rel igiously avoided
making any statements in connection with the matter or giving any advice.
He stated that during the time he was Regional Director
attempted to follow an unbiased course-he had alfays
Hr. LLJORK was asked the hypothetical question as to what he
could have done or how the I-lino "B" dispute could have been settled. ll!-
BAJCRK stated that he believed the key to the whole mattemployer, CARL H. ELSHOFT, who could have settled the matter at practically
any time he desired
In view of the fact that most of the infer-mat
above was secured after refreshing Hr. BAJQB.Ks mind in
the details of this matter, in viei of the fact that it
that at this time he cannot furnish more information
Region file, and in view of the fact that it appears at
only be able to testiiy to matters which appear of recor
Region filo, no attempt v-as made to obtain a signed stater rested with the
ion submitted
connection with
appears obvious
without the 13th
this time he will
d in the 13th
emonts
Hr. El-JGIK makes a good appearance. He does not appear to be I
unfavorable to tho Government in connection with this matter, and it is
believed that he would make an honest effort to testify
which he might have to the best of his ability. Becauseto any information
of his indefinitell-
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Re: JORJ L. tans, er AL; .
nrzrsavrsa ..TI'H The following interview was had by Special '
F.F%l1;I_924.1.YF-Y-.._--, in Chicago, Illinois eh September
Chicago, Illinois,
hr._ FRLD JILKEY is Secretary oi the _*]1lin_ois,Cp_;=;1l Operators a§BQ§iiLtj:9':
_e-=11 buildritg, 30'; North Michigan Ayenue, Chicago, Illinois. Hie telephony,
number is Franklin 9796. 'h'.l'IK"EY was questioned conceming the nature
of the agreenzent of August 18, 1937 between CARL ELSHOFF and Ilgited Line
Workers of iimcrica. 'In this agreement IQLSHDFF agreed to become a member 91'
the Coal Operators Assocatim. Mr. WILKEY stated that there was no infor-
mation in writing in his files wherein EI.5HOFF ever made application for
membersrip in his association. He recalled that EH01? did mention Llpn
one occasion some time ago, exact time of which 1111,1632 could not place,
something in the nature of an inquiry concerning the requirements to become
a member of the Illinois Coal Operatorslhssociation. To the best of 'ILKEY's. _ . . ,_ . .lmowledge, this F-<15 during the time when ans HOFF was having his labor
trouble at Mine "B". If such were the case WILKEY stated that undoubtedy
his answer nould be that it was not the policy of the association to take
in new members during the time of a labor dispute.
For the information of the file, the object of the association is to
promote harmonious and businesslike relations between coal operators in
Illinois and their employees, to secure labor contracts, and to negotiate
disputes in connection with these contracts. The policy of the association,
according to Mr. JILKEY, is not to take in members during a dispute. Ii
new members are taken in during the time when a prospective member is
having a labor dispute, according to the constitution of the associatio,
that prospective member must pay all expenses incurred in connection with
the consideration of the particular dispute.
5ince the Illinois Coal Operators Association deals with United
Mine aiorkers, Hr. JILKEY states that ho is well acquainted with and sees s
RAY EDi..II£$ l92? frequently, but he could not recall any occasion when
ED1£LNIB¬N talked about the Mine "B" matter or C..RL ELSHOFF.
In a memorandum for the Attorney General dated July 24, 19¢},
submitted by assistant Attomey General WEIHJELL BERGE in part III,
Section 3, it is stated that EISHIJFF was at one time or another member
of wth enployersl organizations. In connection with this _, Hr.
advised that ELSHOFF is not now and never has been a member of the
Illinois Coal Operators Association," - - -- - -
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Re: JOHI 1.. Lees, er
1lI'1"'.:;RVIE'.I|'%H his interview was conducted i iicial AgentF"JLLl~;F.T . N, uith Special Agent in the
Chicago,ill:i.nois. regiq-30¢; ffice, cxo, on August 31, 1943.
A Lil . FUIJIERTCEY FULTCIJ is CID Regional Director. His office is located
in Room 2¬!ll, 205 best Hacker, Chicago, Illinois. L1::...FLII.'II had .n0,£fiI_'_5.*»:__
_ hand knowledge of events iacomection with Mine "B" in they pertinent
p_criod of this case. He did state however that he secured the information
#5 H1-
ited , acti ~13" dis
Hr. FULTQI also advised that Attorney of Springfield,
Illinois, and who is acquainted with ELS;{0F'F, may ve information of value.
Lir. FULTQI said that when he has been in Springfield he used to talk with
P':1FiTiL1E. concerning and the iiine B mtter just to see what
PEFFERLE knew and that it is his opinion that FT.FFE-RLE may be able to fur-
nish information of value and he believes will be willing to do so.
HI. FULTG5 also stated that most of the hi he officials of theUnited Mine Tiorkers of nmerica lly stay at t1 a.nd Hotel when inSpringfield, Illi_n_ois_and at thggnison Hotel w en in Chico o I1_li11.s..
Héeeie~m::1rs:Cf'sn;n1:11se1 always stops at the Zbrrison 'P5t_1'e . -
Eff. r mi pointed oir. that these nen wohehly stay at the Leland
Hotel, and as a matter of fact, stated that the Peabody Goal Company
formerly furnished coal to the Leland Hotel but since ELSHFFFF is new
operating agezin the Leland otel is now fumiehed with coal by CAIIL
EHOFF.
Concerning '.l'...LTE.R J. JAMES mr. FULTCN stated that he believes
this man might talk considerably if interviewed by an individual who
was armed with enough information to oonvfnte J..I£S that the interviewing . ~+ -+1. H-. r + 4 in liT'l'l"'!'l"l"ll: 1-.-in.-.-. Ill"'m-i.q //-5/agent was conversant rrion 0:13 sects, since .... ;'UJ...|;.924'§ .. o,...i.i.... ti-..........
doesn 't have much intelligence". J..L[E.S reportedly only follows the /_.>
directions of R68! EJHIDSGE and JOHN L. LJJIS. '
III. FULTLN was very cooperative and offered his services in any
way possible in connection with this matter. _
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Re: JOIN L. LEWIS, ET AL.
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INIERVIEH' Y; L-rs. L. R. IIBHELL yas inte viewed on It ust 31 . by r In =~Chicago , ._li.nois. lire. NB.-ELL resides 3 e hore ive, cage,
Illinois. She advised that she was in Seattle, Washington from 1934 mtil
191.1 and therefore had little firsthand knowledge concerning the gj_.n__ing_
P-"f>B@i"@,ics Q; snritizens. 3£cl1..Doal_QQnna-n¥_Q-iilevrisclllinvis or 01..
line 1'-31.3.16. C...RL jibe stated that her brjothert JOI-N,Y7E-»'c_=1J_TZ£5,__Jr_._4, handles most of thegpusinesspatters. She also stated that
anything whatsoever, no matter how trivial concerning their mine properites
which comes to her attention is forwarded to her brother and in this con-
nection she recalls sending him a copy of a letter which she received from
C-LRL LLSHOFF, which letter was probably dated July 26, 1939. She stated
that she has no further i:.forr:ation concerning this matter, nor concerning
the labor situation in writing and that she did not have any personal con-
versations with C.-.F.L EISHOFF. She said that she
…[truncated]