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U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPE #78
3/7/93
2:52 A.M. 9:25 A.M.I
92
I 1 2
Tape 78!
DAVID: -- his covenant and return to his own
land. Okay? At the time appointed he should return,
come towards the south, but it shall not be as the
former, or as the latter. For the ships of Chittim,
whatever they are, shall come against him; therefore he
shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation
against the holy covenant.
JQHN: Covenant.
DAVID: So shall he due; he shall even
return, have intelligence with them that forsake the
holy covenant. So he has to go around and understand
dark senses. Now he has to go around and find those
people that once had a chance to know it but turned
away from it. Okay?
Like for instance you know that I have
certain students that I taught a period of time, and
all of a sudden they say I'm wrong. But yet they never
teach people what I teach though. Huh.
So he has this intelligence, and then what
did he do? He collects arms. Arms shall stand on his
part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength,
and shall take away the daily, and they shall place the
abomination that maketh desolate.
Now what does he use? He uses arms doesn't
he?1
1
.I
I Z 3
JOHN: Umhum.
DAVID: what are arms? Weapons, right? Now
they go to pollute the sanctuary of strength to take
away the daily. we learned about that earlier, didn't
we?
Verse 32. And such as do wickedly against
the covenant shall be corrupt by flatteries. In other
words, all those that go against this covenant,
whatever it is, he'll say good boy. Good boy. But the
people that do know their God shall be strong, and do
exploits.
_ They that understand among the people shall
instruct many; yet they shall fall by the sword, by
flame, and by captivity, and by spoil, many days. Now
when they shall fall, they shall be indiscernible!
with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with
flatteries. Okay?
Now it says over here in verse 36. And the
king shall do according to his will; he shall exalt
himself, and magnify himself above every god. He shall
speak marvelous things against the God of gods, and
shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished:
for that that is determined shall be done.
Neither shall regard the God of his fathers,
nor the desire of women. What's - who's the desire of
women? We know Psalms 45, the Lamb, hearken, O!
!
4
I I 4
daughter, consider? What girl would not want to marry
the Lamb, right? Or any God. For he shall magnify
himself above all.
But in his estate he shall honour the God of
forces. That's military. And a god whom his fathers
knew not shall he honour with gold, silver, and with
precious stones, and pleasant things. Thus shall he do
in the most strong holds. You know, strong, fortified,
military. with a strange god, whom we shall
acknowledge and increase with glory: he shall cause
them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for
gain.
Okay. Now what does it mean over here when
it says verses 43. He shall have power over the
treasures of gold and of silver. Pretty nice, isn't
it?
JOHN: Umhum.
DAVID: And of all the precious things of
Egypt; and the Libyans and Ethiopians shall be at his
steps. But all of sudden, but tidings out of the east
and out of the north shall trouble him. Isaiah says
I've raised up one from the north, and he shall come
from the rise in the sun. I bet that guy's going to
rise up and give a message that's going to trouble this
guy. Therefore he shall go forth with great fury to
destroy, and utterly to make away many. He shall plant
I Q 5
the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the
glorious holy mountain.
On Mount Zion, what sits on Mount Zion right
now, do you know?
JOHN: Tabernacle.
DAVID: What kind? A Catholic church, right?
JOHN: Okay.
DAVID: And he shall come to his end, and
none shall help him. Why? So that time shall Michael
stand up. He's sitting down, you know. The great
prince which standeth for the children of thy people:
and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was
since there was a nation even to that time.
You know, the father, the father kicked some
butt like you never heard. Habakkuk says I'll execute
judgment and vengeance on the heathens as they've never
heard. That's what Micah says. Okay? And at that
time thy people shall be delivered, everyone is found
written in the what? In the book, right?
JOHN: Umhum.
DAVID: What book? Well, when I come with my
reward to give to every man according as his word shall
be, well, we're doing the work. And you're written in
the book. Because you're working according to the will
of the Lamb. The seven seals. And many of them that
sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to
Q Q 6
everlasting life, and some to everlasting shame and
everlasting contempt. You know what contempt of court
is, don't you?
JOHN: Sure do.
DAVID: It's when you're out of rule, when
you're out of order, right? In my Father's court,
there's seven seals. And there are those who in the
days of the prophets wouldn't hear them, and there are
those in the days of the prophets who will not learn
them. And they that be wise shall shine as the
brightness of the firmament.
Remember their faces shall be as flames?
Remember that? You learned in Isaiah 13? And they
that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever
and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and
seal the book, even to the time of the end. Which the
book is now open. I could teach it to you in more I
detail if you wanted to come out here and learn it.
Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge
shall be increased. Hebrews says great knowledge shall
be increased. We're in that time right now.
Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there
stood other two, the one upon this side of the bank of
the river, the other side of the bank of the river.
Okay. And one said to the man clothed in linen, which
was on the waters of the river, How long shall it be to
Q Q 7
the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed
in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when
he held up his right hand and left hand to heaven, and
sware by him that liveth for ever and ever which is the
Father. It shall be for a time, times, and a half.
We learned about that before, haven't we?
Revelation told us about it, Daniel tells us about it
and it's repeated again. And when he, that is the king
of the north, whoever he is, shall have accomplished to
scatter the power of the holy people, which is being
done right now, all these things shall be finished.
And I heard, but I understood not, Daniel
says. Then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of
these things? And he says, Go they way, Daniel: for
the words are closed up and sealed. Until what time?
Until the time of the what? End.
Now remember earlier I already showed you
that whatever Daniel 11 and 12 teaches us remember it
must be noted in the scripture of truth. So we've got
to harmonize Isaiah. We've got to harmonize Micah,
Hosea, Obadiah, Zephaniah with this book perfectly,
right? To get the full picture.
But we know one thing. That during this time
many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but
the wicked shall do wickedly. And how many? None of
the wicked shall what?
I Q 8
JOHN: Understand.
DAVID: But the wise shall what?
JOHN: Understand.
DAVID: And from the time that the daily
shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh
desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred
and ninety days.
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the
thousand three hundred five and thirty days. 1,335
days. But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou
shalt rest, Daniel, and stand in they lot at the end of
the days.
How would you like Daniel and all the
prophets to be raised up from the graves, John? would
you like to meet them?
JOHN: Wouldn't you?
DAVID: Oh, I'm going to. Again. I have
before. And I will again. But would you want them to
come?
JOHN: Well, I'd just, I'd just like to meet
them once.
DAVID: well, that's fine.
JOHN: Uhhuh.
DAVID: But you --
JOHN: And I'm sure I will.
DAVID: But you don't want them to come and
Q Q 9
beat your rear end, do you?
JOHN: Well, they're, they're not saying
they're going to necessarily beat mine in particular,
did they?
DAVID: Well, the thing of it is this.
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: The thing of it is this. when you
reject the one that they foretell.
JOHN: Yes.
DAVID: The prince of the covenant, then
you're rejecting them. It's kind of a family thing,
you know?
JOHN: Yeah, and again we're talking
interpretation.
DAVID: Yeah.
JOHN: Yeah. Hey, just remember. when you
come out, you'll have the opportunity to teach many,
wmrtym
DAVID: A lot.
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: A lot.
JOHN: Have you given any thought to, to what
we discussed about sending your word out to the media
and trying to straighten them out a little bit?
DAVID: Well, like I said, the, the options
that you've given me is that I make a tape --
Q Q 10
JOHN: Well, I don't, I don't want you to, to
think the options are that as restricted as you
initially heard them.
DAVID: Look, John.
JOHN: Go ahead.
DAVID: This message is going to be --
JOHN:
DAVID: - enlightened to the wholeUmhum.
world.
Honestly. Believe me.
JOHN:
DAVID: I do not mind coming out toUm-hum.
you. I'm
ready to come out to you.
you.JOHN: Oh, I'd love to sit down and talk to
DAVID: The thing of it is, though, John, is
that my Father tells me to wait. And I cannot go
beyond his commandment.
tried JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVIDOkay.
I love him. And I'm indiscernible!.
Then wait.
It may not be that long.
Hey.
And the people here are being
If you have to wait ~-
Look. The people here are being
Q Q 11
tried, too.
JOHN: Uhhuh.
DAVID: They believe on God by the word that
I've shown them.
JOHN: Are the --
DAVID: They're, and they're being tried --
JOHN: ~ are those little children being
tried in there too?
DAVID: The little children --
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: are my children.
JOHN: Well, they're all your children.
DAVID: That's true too. But these are my
biological children.
JOHN: And we are all God's children.
DAVID: To a degree.
JOHN: Well, what degree?
DAVID: Some greater than others.
JOHN: well, I'm not going to --
DAVID: He that is of God --
JOHN: I'm not going to dispute that one.
DAVID: He that, he that is of God hears
God's word. Now the more you learn of God's word, the
more you're going to think about this.
JOHN: Uhhuh. But I mean you're saying that
all of those people in there including the children,
Q Q 1,
right?
DAVID: Right.
JOHN: Well, what about the children that,
that you let come out?
DAVID: Well, those children are safe, aren't
they? Didn't you promise me that?
JOHN: Well, they're all safe, aren't they?
DAVID: Oh, John, you're funny.
JOHN: Hey. Son of a gun. I'd love to sit
down with you.
DAVID: Well, we're -- you're sitting down.
I'm --
JOHN:i And I know we will, huh?
DAVID: I'm laying down. I plan on it,
John.
JOHN: No, you're lying down.
DAVID: I'm lying down now.
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: I'm lying down. Yeah, I'm in a -
this is one of my most prone positions these days.
JOHN: Well
DAVID: Hopefully I'm going to be able to
walk out of here. Because like I say --
JOHN: I know you will.
DAVID: - the Father's been -- the Father's
healing me quite well. The, the holes are ~ I'm going
Q Q ,3
to take a picture and show this to you so you can take
a look at it.
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
one -~
JOHN:
night. IHey, will you?
I will.
You got a camera in there?
You bet.
You got a Instamatic?
Steve.
Huh?
Steve?
Oh, don't wake him up.
Okay. Wait a minute. All right.
Listen, I --
Yeah, it's just I know we've got
I didn't ring that phone last
let you sleep all night.
DAVID: Yeah, I'll show you these holes so
you can see what you
JOHN:
DAVID
JOHN:think about it.
Let me, let me ask you something now.
Go ahead.
You know, initially I guess what, this
afternoon, this afternoon -- I look track of days,
right? Yesterday afternoon, yesterday morning when you
were talking to Dick or Steve was talking to Dick. I
guess you were -- both of you talked to him, huh? And
Q Q 14
they made that proposition and, and basically you felt
that was kind of an unwieldy proposition.
And the one that I gave you some food for
thought, to make a tape and to correct any, any errors
that you think have been made or assertions that have
been made by the media and give it some thought. And
I'm not talking about a lengthy, lengthy tape, but a
15-minute tape to refute some comments that they may
have made.
And if you release some of those youngsters
out of there, we will play the tape. But you send the
tape out, we'll listen to the tape. Then you send the
youngsters out, the tape gets played. And, and send a
picture out. Because I'd like to see a picture. You
don't want one of me in return, I know. But send a
picture out.
DAVID: You never met my babies, have you?
JOHN: No, I haven't. But I'd love to. I've
met some of these other youngsters that came out. And
I tell you the one that was, the one that, you know, I
guess I felt warmest about was Jamie.
DAVID: Oh, yeah. Indiscernible! medical --
JOHN: But I have a reason for that. I've
got a goddaughter that's got Down's Syndrome. And I've
got a reason for that.
DAVID: Right.
0 Q 15
JOHN: And you love them even more, don't
you?
DAVID: Indiscernible!. Oh, you bet.
JOHN: Huh? They need a lot of love.
DAVID: And we figured that, you
all weren't going to give us the milk like
and stuff like that. And so, you know, he
needs a lot of special care that, you know
JOHN: He's getting that specialknow, you
you promised
needs, he
care too. I
just wish I could give it to him myself. You probably
do too, don't you?
DAVID: It will be done.
JOHN: Well, why don't you give it some
thought? I mean don't totally reject the, the ability
to play a tape. Because you're going to, you're going
to watch TV in the morning or CNN during the night or
whatever. And you're going to hear everybody's got
their ideas. And everybody's got their theories. And
everybody's got their speculation. And you know and I
know it's a bunch of nonsense.
Because you know how it's going to work out,
and I know how it's going to work out. You're going to
walk out of there. You're going to lead those people
out of there. And you're going to do the right thing.
DAVID: Always.
JOHN: Then you're, then you're going to let
0 Q M
some other people listen to your word. And I'll tell
you if you come out of there, you can meet the press.
You can sit down with the press. And if there's
someone in particular that you want to meet you when
you come out of there, all you got to do is name them.
They'll be there.
And if you want me to meet you when you come
out of there, I might be the last person you want to
meet. But I'd love to meet you coming out of there.
DAVID: Well, John --
JOHN: And greet you.
DAVID: - just don't be too hard.
JOHN: What?
DAVID: Just remember, whoever falls on this
rock shall be broken, right? Whoever this rock falls
on shall be ground to powder.
JOHN: Uh-huh .
DAVID: Now think what that means.
JOHN: You going to philosophize me right
into the, into the evening, huh?
DAVID: No. what I'm going to say is I'm
going to say that learn about that little red horse in
Zechariah. It says those prophets are wrong. You have
nothing to worry about. Those prophets are right.
JOHN: What about planting the, the seed of
the seven seals on a tape?
O Q 17
DAVID: well, the thing of it is -~
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: is remember I'm sitting here --
JOHN: And I know you'd rather discuss it in
person, wouldn't you?
DAVID: I'm sitting here jabbering all over
the place.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: And I'm working with you right now.
And I'm telling you --
JOHN: Boy, it's not easy either, is it?
DAVID: Oh, sure it is.
JOHN: No.
DAVID: Sure it is. Because remember, the
last laugh and the last laugh that's laughed.
JOHN: Well, they also say he who laughs last
is an ass for not have laughing sooner too, didn't
they?
DAVID: Well, there's the whole thing, isn't
it?
JOHN: Uhhuh .
DAVID: So in Isaiah 11 when that prophet
goes ahead says that there shall come forth a rod out
of the stump of Jesse, you know, and his Branch shall
bear fruit. It shall be the spirit of knowledge and
wisdom and understanding and the fear of the Lord.
0 0 1,
JOHN: Uhhuh.
DAVID: Make him of quick understanding,
smite the earth with the rod of his mouth. Remember
with the breath of his lips he slays the wicked. what
he promises, what he says of God is going to come to
pass. So when those people say aha, aha --
JOHN: Umhum.
DAVID: -~ even in their
right. He can laugh too
JOHN: well, so much, so
perception. You know, when I tell
you when you come out of
I want to meet you.heart, that's all
much of this is
you I want to meet
there, I'm not lying to you.
DAVID: I'll meet you.
JOHN: I'll sit down and talk to you. Or I
wouldn't be sitting here talking to you on the phone.
You know, nobody's making me do this. Nobody's forcing
me to do this. You know, I, I want to do it. And, and
I want to see everything
for all of us.
DAVID: I love
JOHN: And you
you?
DAVID: I know
JOHN: Huh?
DAVID: I knowwork out in a peaceful manner
peace, John.
do too. I know that. Don't
that.
that.
U Q 1.
JOHN:
putting togetherWhy don't you give some thought to
a tape. And, and you watch the news.
You hear what's on the news. And you hear people
saying things. And if they're not true, clarify them.
You know,
DAVID:
JOHN:
don't you.
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
tough, right?
JOHN:
just telling you
fact. And that's not
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:you can do that.
Why don't you give me a live?
You know that's not going happen,
Why?
Huh?
Why not?
It's not going to happen. It's --
Why not?
- as simple as that.
Oh, that's where you get real big and
No. I'm not being big and tough. I'm
that some things are very matter of
going to happen.
Oh, okay.
And I'm not saying I'm playing ~
Well, talk to you later, John.
Hey .
Laughing.!
Uh-huh.
Oh, boy. You think I'm laughing.
John.
who's
I say
there's a
Steve
H18 --
great
tried0 . 20
JOHN: Now, now don't --
DAVID: You
If you, if you knew --
JOHN: Don't go, don't go away mad, now.
DAVID: No, I'm not. If you knew in Psal
really laughing. I mean, you know, you guys
JOHN: Uhhuh.
DAVID: Since the foundation of the world
certain group of people that never learn.
JOHN: I'm one of those?
DAVID: John, let's hope not.
JOHN: well, I hope not.
DAVID: That's your decision, okay?
JOHN: I hope not. Now don't be kicking
and waking him up now, huh?
DAVID: I'm not going to kick Steve.
JOHN: You were going to.
DAVID: He gave me, he gave me a, he gave
JOHN: You --
DAVID: -- let me tell you, he'd have bee
guy. He gave me a working over when I first
to teach him.
JOHN: That's what he said.
DAVID: Then he --think, you think I'm laughing,
ms 2
like
1'1
Q C 21
JOHN: He said he was not your easiest
student.
DAVID: well, he had such a good position
though being a teacher of comparative religion and all
that.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: Men look up to one of those ~
JOHN: where, where did he teach?
DAVID: Some place in Hawaii.
JOHN: Boy, he did give up a lot, didn't he?
DAVID: well, a lot of people did, you know.
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: A lot of people gave up jobs making,
you know, 100, 200,000 a year.
JOHN: Really.
DAVID: Six million a year, yeah.
JOHN: Uhhuh.
DAVID: But you know, the thing of it was is
like I say they -- I used to freak them out, because I
would tell them to turn their money and stuff over to
somebody else. Hey.
JOHN: Um-hum.
DAVID: But the truth will always win.
JOHN: Always wins in the end, doesn't it?
DAVID: Always.
JOHN: Uhhuh.1
DAVID: Okie doke.22
JOHN: You - hey, you going to let me speak
to some of those girls in the morning that ~-
DAVID: Any person you --
JOHN: - that the relatives calls?
DAVID: Any person you want to talk to you
may talk to them freely here. Anyone.
JOHN: Well, I, I asked last night I asked --
I'm not talking about this night. Last night, 24 hours
ago, I asked Steve, and I gave him the names of the
family members that called in and the names of the
people. And I got to speak to, to Lisa, and I got to
speak to Rita. But neither one of those were on the
list that I gave him.
DAVID: Well, what are some of the names
then? Run them by me.
JOHN: Okay. Belinda Gaynum phonetic sp.!
called about David Thibodeaux phonetic sp.!.
DAVID: Okay. He's here.
JOHN: And Lonnie Little called about Jeff
Little.
DAVID: He's here.
JOHN: And Ursula Gurman phonetic sp.!
called about ~-
DAVID: Marguerita.
JOHN: - Marguerita Vega.
U U 2.
DAVID: Yeah, she's here.
JOHN: Then of course we had someone call
about Ms. Madsen phonetic sp.! who is out already.
And --
DAVID: was that her daughters that called
or --
JOHN: Diana McClintock's. Yes. Her --
DAVID: Yeah, okay. Okay.
JOHN: -- one of, one of her daughters or her
daughter, whomever, yeah, called about her mom. And I
don't know if it was Mr. or Mrs. Mosher called about
Sherri Jewell but their daughter.
DAVID: Okay.
JOHN: And Mary Jane Borst' son called.
And --
DAVID: wait, wait a second, now.
JOHN: Mary Jean Borst.
DAVID: Okay, Mary Jean, yeah.
JOHN: And then --
DAVID: That's Brad. Brad? Yeah, he called,
right? Brad Borst?
JOHN: N0.
DAVID: No? Must be the other older ones.
Okay. Go ahead.
JOHN: And what do you have, Greem, Graeham
Leonard Craddock. Okay.
U Q 2.
DAVID: Yeah, he's here.
JOHN: Yeah. He had a family member call for
him. Douglas Wayne Martin, Sheila Martin, they had
several people call to see how they're doing.
DAVID: Uh-huh. Now that family is all
Harvard graduate family is a graduate of the --
JOHN: Uh-huh.
DAVID: all honors at Harvard, and they're
doctors and lawyers and all that. I imagine they get a
lot of calls.
JOHN: Well, his parents aren't, aren't
lawyers, just hardworking folks.
DAVID: No, no, no, no. They're not lawyers.
But --
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: -- in the ministry, ministers.
JOHN: Uh-huh. And then Paul Fatta and
Colani phonetic sp.! Fatta had some people call.
DAVID: Uh-huh .
JOHN: You know, so I would just - like I
told Steve I said hey, why don't you - and I told him
Friday night, you know, not Saturday night. I said why
don't you let me say hi to these people and just let
them know that their loved ones are calling and
expressing an interest about their welfare, and he said
sure, I'll take care of that.
0 0 25
DAVID: Well, give us a ring in the morning
and let's let these people, let them talk to you.
JOHN: You going to, you going to be able to
handle that?
DAVID: Why not?
JOHN: Well, okay. Well, I'm just asking,
because it didn't happen today.
DAVID: well, I, I didn't know anything about
it. This is the first time you're telling me about it.
JOHN: Well, I told Steve, you know. And
there must have been a breakdown in communications,
huh?
DAVID: Well, Steve, Steve doesn't have the,
the leniency of, of insult that I do.
JOHN: Hey.
DAVID: As long as I do.
JOHN: It will all work out though,
DAVID: Yeah.
JOHN: I'll give you a call about 5
DAVID: In the morning?
JOHN: No. Hey, you were lucky. I
a break yesterday morning. Didn't call untilhuh?
o'clock?
gave you
what --
as a matter of fact, I had Dick call about what --
DAVID: Why don't you, why don't you take a
nap, and give us a call at about 7 o'clock then.
JOHN: I don't take a nap. But I'll call youi
1
0 Q 2.
at 7. And who else? Oh. Somebody just put a note
here. Melissa, the little girl that --
DAVID: Uhhuh yawning!.
JOHN: Hang in there. This won't take much
longer.
DAVID: Go ahead.
JOHN: Laughing.! Show no respect at all to
your elders.
DAVID: Why, just because I'm yawning?
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: I may be older than you, John. You
just don't know.
JOHN: Uhoh. No. I'm talking about earthly
years, okay?
DAVID: Oh, all right.
JOHN: And you're not. They talked to
Melissa yesterday about coming out.
DAVID: Uhhuh .
JOHN: And I guess then her mom talked to, to
Steven or someone else. And then she, she changed her
tune because of something that pertained to Robert.
Now I know she didn't know Robert from the man in the
moon.
DAVID: Yes, she did.
JOHN: But her mother did.
DAVID: No. She knew Robert too.'
!
Q .7 0
JOHN: well, this little 6-year-old girl
didn't know him to ask the questions that were being
asked so --
DAVID: Yeah.
JOHN: -- she was being prompted. And I
understand that. I appreciate that.
DAVID: Well, that's the mother's right and
responsibility too. Because they know no one can talk
to Robert --
JOHN: Well, the mother was being prompted by
someone else. She'd have never asked that question.
DAVID: well, now the thing of it was that
normally she did not really want to go. And I asked
her, I said Melissa --
JOHN: Well, then why in the world was --
DAVID: -- if you get a chance to talk to
Robert -- I'm making negotiations with her too.
JOHN: Yeah.
DAVID: You know. Because otherwise I got to
send them out anyway.
JOHN: Well --
DAVID: But I'm giving her a chance. I said
look, if we get to talk to Robert would you go? And
she looked at me, and she smiled and she says yes.
JOHN: Don't want to force anybody to do
something against their will, huh?
U Q .8
want to, huh? How about making someDAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN: Laughing.!
I'm being serious. You don't, do you?
Have I?
Not that I know of. But you don't
arrangements in
the morning for me to talk to those folks.
you got a
7.DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
DAVID:
JOHN:
STEVE:
DICK:
STEVE:
DICK:
STEVE:
DICK:
little
STEVE:
DICK:
STEVE:Okie doke.
Okay?
Give us a call.
Keep your powder dry. Hang in there.
All right. will do.
Okay. Take care.
Malatov phonetic sp.!. Shalom.
Shalom.
*><***
Hello?
Steve?
Yes.
Dick here.
Dick. Hi, did you get some rest?
I got a little rest, and I understand
rest.
I might have had an hour.
They told me to get back to you around
Oh, boy.
U U .9
DICK: We gave you a little, we gave you a
little extra time, Steve.
STEVE: They told them -- I told them try me
about 9 o'clock.
DICK: Ooh, let's - hey, we got the milk for
you.
STEVE: You do, huh?
DICK: We got the milk for you. I'll tell
you what we're going to do here with the milk. We --
listen, we've got a container. We've got it iced for
you. It will be here shortly.
This is what we'd like to do. We'll bring
the milk down. we'll drop it off. I know you're
concerned that we're I want to show you that we will
do in fact what we say we will do. We're going to
bring the milk down, drop it at the drop point and move
back.
In return, we want four of your kids to come
up, and we're going to give you the milk for the kids.
We'll let one adult go up with it. You take one adult
up to bring the milk back, and send us the kids. And
we're prepared to do that momentarily. You get the
kids ready, and we'll have it there.
STEVE: Hold on. Indiscernible.! He was up
quite late with John, you know, David was.
DICK: Yes.
Q C 30
STEVE: And when it comes to the, the
decisions about children -- now individuals, the
children's are usually the parents. Then he can a lot
of times say well, give it some thought or something
and try to encourage them. But --
DICK: You can't do this yourself? I mean
this is just milk.
STEVE: Not with the four children I can't.
Jeff? I'm aware of that.
DICK: This is -- Steve.
STEVE: If you, if you --
DICK:
directly then.Put David on. I'll talk to him
STEVE: No, he fell asleep at 5:30 this
morning.
DICK:
there --
STEVE
DICK:
STEVE
DICK:
STEVE
DICK:
make a decision
guys --
STEVEAll right. But you want the milk in
He was, he was awake --
Pardon me?
He was awake with John all that time.
well, that's, that's fine. Then --
Then --
-- I assume that you can go ahead and
on this matter, can't you? I know you
See, I don't know which four
children. I can't go choose and say hey, I want your
children to go out there and see, I mean these -~ they
won't comply with me in the first place, Dick. They
really wouldn't
not?
done
with
that
use? You
now. I'm
know --DICK:
STEVE
DICK:
STEVE
DICK:well, you're agreeable to it, are you
I've always been from the beginning.
Absolutely. I mean this is --
But I've
-- what you asked for, and I got it
for you. While I was not here I've been working
these folks again.
STEVE: You, you guys are so funny. I say
know,
DICK:
STEVE
DICK:
STEVE
going
DICK:
get it for you.
STEVE
DICK:
STEVEbecause, you know, look at the, the techniques you
coercion and all of the other --
Now, listen, Steve, please.
No, no, no, no. I'm going to --
How is this coercion?
- listen, no, no. No, no. Listen
to put the phone down. Don't, you
Let's don't argue about this. we'll
You asked us for it ~-
Okay, now, now listen to me.
- and we've gotten it done for you.
Listen. Are you ready to listen?31
I . 32
DICK: Certainly.
STEVE: All right. That was an agreement
like 3, 4, 4, what was it, 4 days ago already, Dick,
about the milk?
DICK: You asked for it and we've been
working on it --
STEVE: Yeah, I asked for the milk. Nothing
to do with four children. So you know, if you want
to --
DICK: Steve --
STEVE: -- continue to talk about four
children and the milk, talk to David. I can't --
there's --
DICK: I know. I'll be happy to.
STEVE: I'm trying to be honest with you. I
can't do anything about it.
DICK: But bear this into mind when you two
discuss it, okay?
STEVE: All right.
DICK: We told you there has to be a give and
some take. Okay, we're willing to bring the milk down
to show you that in fact the milk will be there. It's
all - we're, we're, you know, we can do it
momentarily. I sold this -- you know, I've sold a
number of issues for you. And it took some time and
it, these things do take time. We're willing to give
U . 33
you the milk. We want some kids for it. I mean it
comes down to that. You guys have to give some. we
give some.
STEVE: I realize that. But what can I do?
Can you give him another hour or two maybe? Because he
fell asleep at 5:30.
DICK: Okay. Well, you know, that's not
unreasonable. You like the idea though, don't you?
STEVE: I'm open to anything, Dick. I really
am.
DICK: Sure. Well, that's what - we'll work
together and we're working together. So you know,
it's - we've gone beyond this impasse I think to
work --
STEVE: Yeah. But I was just trying to give
as an example, you know, like Rose. You know, I --
there's - I can't tell her - I watched her spirit and
attitude with the child. It was obvious she did not
want her, you know, her child to go.
DICK: Um-hum.
STEVE: And that's why I just - we left it
up to her. And David says well, would you mind he
asked her, you know, would you be willing for the child
to go if I had a chance to speak with Robert? I mean
I'm not bringing that up for now. That was then.
But I mean so I don't - there's nothing I
U . 3.
can really do when it comes to the mother and the
children or whatever. Do you understand? About the
father, whatever.
DICK: Well, I understand that.
STEVE: Okay.
DICK: But that you can't force them to go
obviously. But my belief is based on the conversations
I've had with you and with David that, that it's likely
that some folks would want to go. And with, with the
milk coming in there would be no opposition to that.
Certainly for those that stay behind they want the milk
for those kids, I think they would be completely
supportive of that. And of course, you, you know that
the kids are getting --
STEVE: I'll tell you what, Dick ~-
DICK: -- very good care outside.
STEVE: Call back right at 9 on the head.
DICK: Let's, let's make it 8:30.
STEVE: Make it 9. Because when - I mean he
fell asleep at 5:30. I will try to --
DICK: Okay, we'll make it 9 o'clock.
STEVE: -- try to see what I can do then.
DICK: Sure, 9 o'clock is fine. We'll get
back to you then. And then also in talking with John,
I know there was some, some conversation between you
and he concerning these folks that you and I talked
U ' .5
about yesterday verifying that some of these folks were
in there and that John had indicated that you said that
they would be available for us to talk to so we can
feel comfortable, and the press can feel comfortable
that they're free to go. And, and John suggested that
you said that was fine.
So I'll be, you know, I'll be looking forward
to speaking with them in, you know, over the next time
period here. And we'll get that, we'll get that issue
straightened out. John wanted me to mention that to
you directly, because I know you had made arrangements
with him to do that.
STEVE: Well, see that's what I - like I had
said earlier that's always been something that is open
to them --
DICK: Sure, they're free to do it.
STEVE: Yeah. And I passed around a number
of times, and like I had told you, they were standing
here waiting. Even by the way when you called at 4
o'clock, there was a number of people standing here to
talk to you. But you and I got on some other issues --
DICK: Sure, so --
STEVE: - the other never came back up
again, and I never talked to you again after that.
DICK: Well, round them up, and I'll be happy
to speak with them.i
0 . 36
STEVE: They had been, they had been standing
here though.
DICK: Good. Well that, you know, that makes
it easy then. You can run them down and tell them that
we're -- I'm ready to talk to them and to talk to them
about their fears and concerns.
STEVE: I believe children got on the phone
with him along with some adults.
DICK: Good. well, let's go through the rest
of them then --
STEVE: Indiscernible.!
DICK: -- and there will be others in there,
I'm sure, that would like, like us to explain to them
about certain fears that they might have. And, and
I'll be happy to do that.
STEVE: Okay.
DICK: We'll answer all those questions for
them and, and we'll work together.
STEVE: Okay, call me at 9.
DICK: Very well.
STEVE: Okay, talk to you --
DICK: Talk to you.
STEVE: Okay, bye.
DICK: Bye, now.
*****
STEVE: Hello?
U O 37
DICK: Steve?
STEVE: Hello .
DICK: Dick again.
STEVE: Right.
DICK: You got David up there?
STEVE: Just let me take a look here.
DICK: Okay.
STEVE TO DAVID: Indiscernible.! You want
to talk to Dick?
[9aP]
STEVE: Okay. David's right over here. He
says them that that milk thing is starting to get kind
of sour. They're joking about it. You know, 4 days
ago it was, it was something that was requested.
Today, you know, when I mentioned it to him a minute or
two ago just before you called he mentioned tell them
to send 6 gallons of ice cream and --
DICK: Laughing.!
STEVE: -- and two children back.
DICK: Listen. I told you that there was
some opposition to the milk.
STEVE: I know you did. That's why I told
him also. So I mean why even bring it up anymore?
DICK: You're the one that wants the milk.
And this is a positive thing that we're doing for you.
STEVE: Yeah, 4 days ago that's what I did
U U 3.
say --
DICK: I understand but --
STEVE: -- indiscernible! now.
DICK: -- but is there a less need for milk
today than there was 4 days ago?
STEVE: If they made it 4 days without it I
guess they can make it further.
DICK: well, I'll tell you, those children
need the milk. I assume that that's why you originally
asked for it --
STEVE: Oh, yeah, but they --
DICK: -- because the kids need it.
STEVE: Of course. They're crying.
DICK: Sure. And there's no less need today.
In fact, there's probably more today. So we're willing
to do it. And this is a positive thing. Let's move
forward.
STEVE: David, David says and he is taking it
very personal, because they are his babies.
DICK: Well, let me talk directly to him.
STEVE: Just a moment.
[959]
STEVE: He says I don't want to talk to him
right now.
DICK: Well, let's work it out then between
the two of us. And you can go to him then and, and
U . 39
make the point. Obviously, you've got the interest in
the children the same as I do, the same as David does.
STEVE: well, he said to me, he said
unidentified male voice in background not discernible!
tell him to go have a milkshake.
DICK: A milkshake. Now listen. I don't, I
don't think this is something to joke about. We --
STEVE: I'm not. Believe me --
DICK: We're getting --
STEVE: I'm telling you the honest truth.
He's not smiling. He's not laughing. If you wanted to
see his face he's extremely --
DICK: I know. But that, that reference to a
milkshake. You know, I can understand --
STEVE: well, you know, meaning that --
DICK: -- be a little facetious.
STEVE: That --
DICK: I know, you're being a little
facetious. But --
STEVE: It doesn't need -- the subject
doesn't even need to come up anymore unless that six --
a thousand dollars was sent. And that was -- it
sounded to me like there was no stipulations the day
that it was mentioned. Unidentified male voice in
background not discernible.! It sounded like you guys
were just going to send some materials that were
I Q ,0
needed. Oh, and by the way, send 6 gallons for the
babies. They need it.
DICK: Uh-huh.
STEVE: It didn't sound like any big deal.
DICK: Well --
STEVE: And it's turned into be one of the
biggest things of all.
DICK: Well, again, I was, you know, it would
have been my hope that we could have gotten it in
earlier. But we've gone to the, to the committee
there. And we've gotten their okay. And we're ready
to do it right now.
And, and I -- again, this morning I came to
you with what I thought was a, you know, an effort on
our part to get this thing moving, a positive effort.
And I've done it. we're ready to do -- and then you
guys just reject it once again out of hand. You've
made all kinds of requests of us, and we don't do them
as soon as you want, and so all of a sudden it's not
good enough. You got to understand --
STEVE: That isn't true.
DICK: -- and give us some latitude here.
STEVE: I can do only what, you know, what
you can do. I mean sometimes these requests change
because if they don't, you know, like you say. You
know, half of a week goes by or more, and what are you
U Q ,1
going to do?
DICK: That doesn't lessen the need for it
though, Steve, for the kids, does it?
STEVE: Well, I --
DICK: Huh?
STEVE: -- that's what I would have thought
on your behalf that you'd have recognized that right
away.
DICK: Well, I tried to. And again I make
these requests for you --
STEVE: So there's -- I'm sure there's some
things he may negotiate with you like playing that
couple seconds spot on the radio for a couple children
so frequently. But things like that to him are an
insult. They really are. So --
DICK: Listen. Let me just discuss that for
a moment.
STEVE: All right.
DICK: Yesterday in one of the conversations
we had, you made reference to one of the two gentlemen
that was on the TV suggesting we would send the food in
to care for the babies. You, you made a big point out
of that. And we're ready. We've, we've done it.
We've got it here.
Again, you know, I've gone to the, to the
bosses for you. And we've gotten the okay. And then
I C 42
all of a sudden you reject it.
STEVE: Well, no, no, no.
DICK: You reject it. Everything that we
do --
STEVE: I like the way --
DICK: for you, you reject it.
STEVE: No, Dick. I like the way you word
things. You can try to play, you know, on one's
sympathies and all the rest. But what the man said was
aside from any negotiations on TV. He made it very
clear that they had our interests in mind when it came
to or needs in mind when it came to things of that
nature. And even when it came to the dead or the
wounded and so forth just as Jim had stated way back
Sunday.
The annoyance was that on one side it was
being stated before the public. On the other, you and
I are negotiating and bargaining over things that were
not mentioned on, on the program at all. I mean if you
want to send us sutures, or you want to send us
pictures of the children, you know, that was your
suggestion about that. None of us here even requested
such stuff.
DICK: But it was only after you expressed
concern about the welfare of the kids and had suggested
that the kids had been split up. You wouldn't accept
I Q 43
my word that the kids had not been split up. So we
talked about what --
STEVE: Okay, fine.
DICK: -- we could do to show you that that
was true. And we did do something.
STEVE: That's fine.
DICK: So you know, we're making the effort,
Steve.
STEVE: That's always what I, what I was
saying, though, are those things that were requested
from this place, you know, days and days have gone by.
And to us, they were very minor things. Substantial
things to the children, of course, but it shows us, you
know, a different spirit that's manifested on TV then
what is in actuality to us.
DICK: Well, Steve, you know, you've asked
for things for instance the suture kit. We sent the
suture kit.
STEVE: Did we ask for that?
DICK: What do we -- what in return you do
nothing. I mean we -- you want milk. We're ready to
send the milk in. You reject it. You know, I'm
starting to believe that you ask for these things
feeling that we won't give them to you, and then you
can complain about it. we are giving them to you --
STEVE: No, no.
I C 4,
DICK: -- and we have them ready for you.
And then you, and then you go on to something else.
STEVE: Dick, truly I believe as the rest
here that 6 gallons of milk would have showed up within
about an hour. From the way we were talking that day
the was that you on the other side of the phone?
I - it's so many days ago, and it's gone back and
forth so many times. I don't - was it originally put
out to Henry? I think it was, wasn't it?
DICK: It was.
STEVE: And it seemed like from the response
like it was not a big deal. It seemed like it have
been just sent right out when we were still bringing
children out and all the rest. Well, all of a sudden
being that it - well, we're, we're not going to do it
or this or that. Well, see after a while it starts
becoming a very sour, and I don't mean that to be
funny, but a very sour issue.
DICK: Well, you know, we've done so many
positive things for you in return received little or
nothing.
STEVE: What positive things? You mentioned
the sutures, and that's about it. What, what else have
you done?
DICK: Well, the, the written statement from
David.
I Q 45
STEVE: We have sent Heather. We've sent
Kevin. We've sent Mark.
DICK: Open up the phone line. I mean we
opened up communications with you right after the
Sunday thing as quickly as possible.
STEVE: Wait a minute, now. with that, with
that phone business, it was our -- we are the ones that
initiated with --
DICK: Absolutely. You asked us to --
STEVE: -- with you people on the, wait now,
with the telephone even in behalf of trying to get your
wounded out.
DICK: I understand. We appreciate that.
STEVE: We, we didn't want anybody hurt and
wounded in the first place. But in fact, we wanted
them to even move quicker than what they were.
DICK: And that works to your advantage.
Absolutely true. Absolutely true. You could have --
someone could have shot the agent that was down in the
back --
STEVE: That's true.
DICK: -- and you allowed to bring them out.
So that obviously is in your favor. ATF appreciates
that as does we -- as do we. You offered -- you asked
for a couple of other things. Play a tape on national
TV and you'll come out. We play the tape. We see no
I Q 46
response. Rita asked play the tape during prime time.
And we did. The rest of the children will come out.
No. David wants 150 feet of cord and a telephone. We
send it in. In response, we get nothing.
STEVE: No, no. Wait, wait. What that was
about -- now let's not, let's not take it out of the
context of that it was spoken about. That was asked
for for your benefit and mine in that we could
communicate without a break in the line.
DICK: Okay. Okay.
STEVE: And mostly as much for yourselves as
us.
DICK: Steve, you --
STEVE: Because originally when Jim was
talking to me, the phone would stop and break. He says
what can we do about it? I says we're - look. Here,
David's going to send some money. He - the two of
them talked it out. And that's why the phone because
we'd accept another phone with a line so that we can
continue.
DICK: Okay.
STEVE: Because they wanted as much as us.
DICK: But I'm just showing - I know. But
I'm - what I'm saying is we're trying to work together
with you.
STEVE: I, I know what you're trying to say
I Q 4.,
and do. I see what you're trying to do and what you're
saying. I, I do see it clearly.
DICK: You know, the public sees our effort
on the one side and sees nothing coming from you.
STEVE: This is true. And this is the way --
DICK: Isn't that true?
STEVE: - this is the way you would have it.
DICK: No, this is the way it is.
STEVE: No, this is the way --
DICK: But we're trying to work together.
STEVE: You are right. We are cut off from
them. But you have total access as we have watched to
make any kind of a statement you want. And we've got
to spend days trying to correct little things. After a
while, you know, you tell them what you feel you need
to tell them. Because you know we have nothing to say
about it anyway.
DICK: Listen. Let me read you an article
today. I, I want to point out to you folks in there.
I know you're concerned about support. Let me read
just excerpts from, from an article that appeared in
the paper today that I think --
STEVE: What paper? The local --
DICK: Yeah, the local - no, it's the Fort
Worth Star Telegraph.
STEVE: Fort Worth Star Telegraph.
Q Q 48
DICK: Right. Let me read you just some
paragraphs from this thing. It quotes this man that,
that by Tim Sullivan of the Star Telegraph. He's a --
STEVE: All right.
DICK: reporter that had spoken with a
local person up there. He said, this is quote what
this fellow is saying. He said that the February 28th
raid on the compound by federal agents was an attempt
to suppress religious activities because its members
live communally and by their own rules. He goes on to
say the government has become a police state. They
want everybody to bow down to them.
Again, he said the raid's violence which left
four ATF agents and at least some Branch Dividians dead
was the fault of the government. You attack a man's
home, and he will fight back. I think this was a set-
up, this man says, by the government. I want people to
understand that government doesn't act properly. This
is the kind of support that people are giving you out
there. But when, when --
STEVE: What, what do you think of a
statement like that?
DICK: I think that a man that you're able to
make a statement like that in this country you can make
statements like that every day, and we all respect that
ability and that right which is given to us by the
O O .9
Constitution. I'm not, don't oppose that. Certainly I
don't oppose that.
I may not always agree with what I read. But
people have the latitude in this country to do that,
and that's exactly what you're going to be able to do
when you guys come out of there is make these kinds of
statement. I mean it's -- you're not isolated in
there. You're going to have the ability to make these
kinds of statement to the press.
You'll - they'll have total access. And,
and we're going to address that issue I hope on this
morning's press conference. Because I, I suggested to
the folks that you were concerned about your inability
to talk with people at some point in time. And I said
hey, tell the media that. They will know that you're
concerned about that. And I'll tell you, they'll beat
your doors down to get the story. They will beat the
doors down. They'll have you lined up on -
STEVE: Dick --
DICK: - to be interviewed at length.
STEVE: Okay. What time did you leave
yesterday?
DICK: What time did I leave?
STEVE: Yeah.
DICK: Oh, probably, you know, 9 o'clock last
night.
0 U 50
STEVE: There was --
DICK: 9:30, 10.
STEVE: Did the guys in the Bradleys, what
did they think of the music?
DICK: Laughing.! The guys in the Bradleys,
what did they think of the music, huh?
STEVE: Yeah.
DICK: Well, I don't know. Some of them I
guess would like everybody else would like the music.
STEVE: Some did, huh?
DICK: Others would find it not to their
liking. It's like me down here in Texas. I'm, I'm,
you know, I'm listening to these Texas stations here
with the cowboy music. And --
STEVE: Right.
DICK: -- where I live I don't hear much
cowboy music. So you know --
STEVE: See, what the prophecies actually
stated was that the final message to the world - this
was, this was shown to me 6-1/2 years ago. I wasn't
even into music. I've never really cared for that kind
of music myself. But --
DICK: Umhum.
STEVE: -- finally it grew on me. But here's
the thing. In the prophecy of Habakkuk it talks about
shigionat phonetic!, the turbulent lyrics, there is to
C Q 5,
be a message of salvation, seven seals that were to be
given by this form of communication, music, the highest
form of communication that there is.
DICK: Um-hum.
STEVE: And we decided, David decided to at
least play something for the guys. And so --
DICK: Well, they've -- some of them
appreciated it. Others I'm sure did not appreciate it.
But you know, that's -- you guys go ahead --
STEVE: Oh, yeah.
DICK: -- and do whatever you want in terms
of playing music.
STEVE: The lyrics are what are very awesome.
I mean --
DICK: Yeah.
STEVE: -- very, very deep indiscernible! --
DICK: Well, did you appreciate it in there?
I mean you liked it, didn't you? And that's all that's
important.
STEVE: Oh, yeah.
DICK: Because I know you did it for your,
for the good of your folks in there.
STEVE: Yeah --
DICK: Let me talk to David. And let's try
to work this deal out.
STEVE: I'm, I'm trying to. Okay, let me see
Q I 52
again. Okay?
DICK: Okay.
STEVE: Can I talk to David? Unidentified
male voices in background not discernible.!
[gap]
STEVE: He said it's so cold he'll --
End of tape 78.!
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPE #79
3/7/93
9:25 A.M. 12:36 P.M.Q 1
>~ - /~/' 2
Tape 79!
STEVE: -- talk to him? He says --
DAVID: Tell him to go drink a glass of milk.
STEVE: He says, he says nah, go drink a
glass of milk.
DICK: Listen. We have it ready for you.
STEVE: Indiscernible.!
DICK: So this is going to be another
rejection on, on our, on your part toward the efforts
that we've made. Let me, let me go into -- you
remember this article I spoke to you about this
morning?
STEVE: Dick says, Dick says I guess this
will be another rejection on your part.
DAVID: Another what?
STEVE: Rejection on your part to the efforts
that are being made.
DAVID: indiscernible!.
STEVE: He says you're making no damn
efforts.
DICK: Well, and what you define what I just
offered to you, to David? Have David define what that
is if that's not an effort on our part?
STEVE: Could you define what that is today?
what their, their offer of the 6 frozen gallons for
four children?
1 -92_. 92"$_/ 4
STEVE: I mean even if those children we sent
out would have remained here, they would have got some
of that milk before they went out, but they'd have
still gone out. He, he -- it had nothing to do with
anything like that.
DICK: Steve, let you know, we talked
earlier about negotiations. You, you make repeated
effort - or statements concerning negotiations.
Negotiations on the basic level are a tit for tat, a
concession on both parts, a backing down in some
instances, a moving forward in other instances. It's,
it's --
STEVE: You know, a wiser - okay.
DICK: - an agreement to agree not --
STEVE: A wiser question on your behalf might
be David, what could we do if anything at all, you
know. What we'd like to do is see maybe another child
or two or whatever. Is there anything that we could do
to maybe ensure that one or two could come out? I
would think that you might just want to ask that, put
it in his head, and see what he has to say about it or
as a reaction.
DICK: Well, I'll tell you what. Listen.
Send two kids out, and we'll send the milk in.
STEVE: No, you --
DICK: Tell, tell David --
Q 1 1,
SITA: I indiscernible!.
DICK: I know you're tired. Sita, trust me.
We're -- I'm going to take, make sure that those kids
are, are handled properly. Please. If there's nothing
else that happens here, understand that I will ensure
and we will ensure the FBI that those kids are properly
cared for. And the only way we can improve on that
care is for you to come out and take care of those kids
themselves -- yourself. Unidentified voice in
background not discernible.! And you know, you and I
both know that, Sita, that you're --
SITA: Excuse me. There is a girl want to
talk to you.
DICK: Okay. What - who is this I'm
speaking with?
SITA: She's Nick. And she's the brother
who -- unidentified female voice in background not
discernible! -- the sister of the brother who died
wanted -- unidentified male voice in background not
discernible! --
DICK: Okay, put her --
SITA: That wouldn't take, excuse me --
DICK: Put her on. I'll be happy to speak
with her.
SITA: Just a minute.
[9aP]
O Q ,3
NICOLE: Hello?
DICK: Hi. Who's this?
NICOLE: This is Nicole.
DICK: Nicole, how are you this morning?
This is Dick. Have I spoken with you before?
NICOLE: No. I spoke to Jim. But I ~-
DICK: Okay.
NICOLE: -~ haven't spoken to you before.
DICK: Good. I'm glad to have the
opportunity to speak with you.
NICOLE: I think personally you're a real
asshole myself.
DICK: Now that's, that's - thank you. I, I
appreciate that.
NICOLE: Okay? I'm pretty teed off with the
whole situation.
DICK: Okay. what are your concerns? Tell
me specifically what your concerns are.
NICOLE: I will. I will tell you very
specifically.
DICK: Okay. And I'll answer. Give me one
at a time, and we'll answer them one at a time.
NICOLE: Number one.
DICK: Okay.
NICOLE: You send your agents here, you
murder my twin brother.
DICK:
NICOLE:
DICK:
NICOLE:
DICK:
NICOLE:
DICK:
not there. That
warrant. And they
they lost
NICOLE:Q 1,
Who, who is that?
Peter Gent.
Peter Gent is your brother.
He's been laying --
Okay, please accept my, my regrets.
Your regrets --
Nicole, I was not there. The FBI was
was an ATF attempt to serve that
are as upset about this obviously,
four agents.
Well, they
DICK: They're as upset as you are about it.
NICOLE: I don't think so. We let them come
in here and take their dead man, their wounded. And
you guys won't even take my dead brother out of here.
I think it's sick.
And I'm really --You people are sick in the head.
DICK: We will try to do that. We understand
your concern.
NICOLE:
down - he's dead.
DICK: I
NICOLE:
parents, have you?
Australia. You --
situation. I haveWe'll try. When? Next year? He is
And I bet ~-
know that.
- you haven't even notified my
They've come all the way from
I'm just so teed off with this whole
a little baby. David sends out
0 t .5
$1,000, and you don't even have enough human decency to
send in 6 gallons of milk.
DICK: Nicole, I spoke with him about that.
we're ready to send that milk in.
NICOLE: When? We asked for that 4 days ago.
DICK: It's here. We will we're ready.
We're ready to go on that. We're ready to go on it.
Unidentified male voice in background not
discernible.! I just told Steven about that and David
too.
NICOLE: David says stop bullshitting, all
right?
DICK: We're not --
NICOLE: I mean you --
DICK: we're not doing that at all.
NICOLE: You are. Because you're trying to
develop some sort of trust here. And from what I can
see in observation, there is none. You have been
telling lies. I've seen with Steve you've just been
telling lies over and over again. You've got your
bulldozers all around this place trampling over things.
I mean who do you people think you are?
DICK: Nicole, I understand your frustration.
NICOLE: You don't understand my frustration.
You're not in here. You're not in, sitting in my room
with my kids trying ~~ and I've got a stupid --
Q 1 ,6
DICK: I know. I know.
NICOLE: -- bulldozer aimed right at my room
I mean you've got jerks in those tanks. You need to
get your act together.
DICK: Nicole, I understand what you're
saying.
NICOLE: You don't understand what I'm
saying.
DICK: Yes, I do. Yes, I do.
NICOLE: You guys have done nothing,
absolutely nothing.
DICK: I know you're concerned. We're
concerned, and we're trying to work this out together.
NICOLE: You want David to release people on
what elements? There is no trust.
DICK: Well, yeah, that's exactly true. And
we --
NICOLE: Exactly.
DICK: -- we -- listen, Nicole, yesterday we
offered to move our Bradleys back --
NICOLE: well, how come they --
DICK: -- and to do other --
NICOLE: -- how come they keep rolling back
in here? Every time they go out --
DICK: Because David won't, won't help us.
He won't work with us.
Q 1 1,
NICOLE: David?
DICK: You're going to have to, you're going
to have to talk with David and get David to work with
us.
NICOLE: You're not working with us. That's
what the point is. You have not proven yourself at
all.
DICK: Really?
NICOLE: Really, you have not.
DICK: What are these offers that we have
made for, to you repeatedly over time and, and the
things we have done already.
NICOLE: what have ~-
DICK: we send you pictures for the kids.
NICOLE: And you cut off all their hair. Are
they still together? You're going to send them out to
foster parents. They were all given out --
DICK: we're not. We're not.
NICOLE: with addresses.
DICK: I know that.
NICOLE: You're not -- I don't trust you
guys. I really don't trust you guys at all.
DICK: Well, then you know the answer to that
is?
NICOLE: Where's our line? Where's our
phone?
O 1 ,8
DICK: You know what the answer
NICOLE: Where's our phone line to the press?
DICK: It's -- that's all in place.
NICOLE: We have none.
DICK: We suggested yesterday that we would
make people available when you come out -- you can pick
people that you want to be there to ensure everybody's
safety when you come out. We'll do that.
NICOLE: I'm not coming out. I am not coming
out. Based on what you guys have done, I'm not coming
out. I don't want to come out. I am not coming out.
DICK: Okay. Well, that's your option. I'm
not trying to convince you to do that.
NICOLE: G006. Don't.
DICK: I'm suggesting that, that David has
said that that's an option and that if, if at --
NICOLE: An option?
DICK: - a point in time you want to do that
then, then please, we will, we'll love to have you out
here. You can care for your children. Now one child'
apparently I was told at least one child asked to have
his hair cut.
NICOLE: what -- David said your option is
you're going to burn hot and in hell. I mean this is
ridiculous.
DICK: Well, I'm sorry you feel that way.
O Q 19
We're --
NICOLE: Oh.
DICK: -- we're just doing the best we can
under --
NICOLE: I don't think so.
DICK: ~ this is a difficult situation for
all of us. And we're doing the best we can, and what
we ask is in return for you to work with us. And we'll
get, we'll get things worked out. It may not be as
quickly as you would like. And it may not be as
quickly as I would like.
NICOLE: Quickly. How long does it take to
get a dead body out of this place?
DICK: Again, we're trying to deal with all
these requests of yours. And again it's not getting
done as quickly --
NICOLE: LOOk.
DICK: -- as you want, Nicole.
NICOLE: You came in here. when you guys
fired on us, you guys fired first. I have bullet holes
in my son - I'm glad he wasn't in his bed. He would
have been killed.
DICK: Nicole, you need to tell the world
that very same thing.
NICOLE: Well, then why don't you give us a
line out?
I Q ..
DICK: You will have the opportunity to do
that.
NICOLE: When? when, Dick? When?
DICK: You know, listen. Let me tell you
what again, very briefly what we went over this morning
with Steven concerning a local article that was written
in the Forth Worth Star Telegraph where a person writes
in and says that the, the attack, he calls it an attack
on the compound by federal agents was an attempt to
suppress religion simply because the members live
communally.
And he goes on to say the government has
become a police state. They want everybody to bow down
to them. Goes on to say, he said the raid's violence
which left four ATF agents and at least some Dividians
dead was the fault of the U.S. Government.
Now that's the kind of support you're getting
out there. But you need to, to ensure that that is
communicated by the people inside that can tell what
happened from their viewpoint.
NICOLE: Dick, don't try and patronize me.
DICK: ATF is --
NICOLE: You don't want us to have a line.
You don't want us to have a line out. That is a,
that's a fact. You don't. Because you would have
given it to us a long time ago.
O $ .1
DICK: Your best line is to walk out of there
and talk to whomever you want to talk to.
NICOLE: I'm not walking out of - oh,
freedom of speech. What happened to the Constitution
of America? It doesn't exist.
DICK: What did I just tell you? You have
the ability to talk to anyone you wish. when you come
out of there absolutely. And I told David and Steve
there will be so many requests to talk to you folks
you'll be able to get your story out in any fashion --
NICOLE: That's a load of baloney.
DICK: It isn't a load of baloney.
NICOLE: It's -- that's bullshit, Dick.
DICK: Listen, Nicole. Let me review a
couple of things for you, the things that we've done at
your request. Not specifically yours. But the folks
inside that were done for you, okay? A phone.line was
opened up. Obviously --
NICOLE: Indiscernible.!
DICK: - that was for both. That was for
both of us.
NICOLE: Keep going.
DICK: Okay, but it was done. You had the
same interest in it as we have. And that was done on
the 28th, Sunday.
And then David wanted to make a statement,
I & 22
and in return for that he said I will bring all my
people out. He gets an hour on the telephone -- or I'm
sorry. An hour in the media after he does a statement
of his own choice. He puts it together. Nobody,
nobody edited that statement. He put exactly what he
wanted on there. And it was played verbatim.
Then we get, we get a reference to play the
tape on national TV and they will come out. Now that
comes from Scott. It's, it's played. Again, you don't
come out. Then someone suggested, Rita I believe, said
play the tape during prime time, and the women and the
children will come out. Of course, it's played during
prime time. Nobody comes out. Or you know, the group
doesn't come out.
David wants 150 feet of phone line. We
furnish that to him.
NICOLE: You, you don't hook it up?
DICK: Well, how can we hook it up? We're
not in there. We sent in a telephone for it.
NICOLE: Why did you cut off all
communication in the first place?
DICK: That - and again I told you I'm not
going to lie to you. That is commonly done --
NICOLE: Commonly done.
DICK: - in these, in these situations.
NICOLE: Freedom of speech. Commonly done.
0 Q 23
DICK: No.
NICOLE: Yes .
DICK: There's actually has nothing to do
with freedom of speech. It has to do with as I
suggested to some of the guys yesterday when you have
this kind of incident, as unfortunate as it is, there
are all kinds of people out there that, that want to
involve themself to some degree. And some, just people
with some off --
NICOLE: DiCk --
DICK: -- the wall things --
NICOLE: Dick the truth is --
DICK: - to say will call in.
NICOLE: -- David and Steve were on, on the
press. They were speaking live to the people on radio.
And they were telling what you happened, and you guys
didn't like it. So you cut our lines. That's what
happened. Unidentified male voice in background not
discernible.!
DICK: Absolutely.
NICOLE: Absolutely.
DICK: We did --
NICOLE: You didn't like what they were
saying.
DICK: No, I'm saying we cut the lines. It's
not because what, of what you were saying --
Q an 2,
NICOLE: Because you didn't like it. Because
they told how the BATF --
DICK: Um-hum.
NICOLE: -- came in here and started firing
first. And they did not know that. They accused us of
that first.
DICK: Nicole, there's been a national
inquiry made, a Congressional inquiry made reference to
yesterday in the paper.
NICOLE: Indiscernible.!
DICK: They're opening up an inquiry on that.
And you'll all get a chance to say exactly what you
saw, what you did, and what you saw the ATF do. That
is - it's your right. It's your responsibility. And
the world will demand it.
NICOLE: Dick, it doesn't make one hell of a
difference, all right? So that's not still until I
start seeing some milk or, or some --
DICK: we've got the milk.
NICOLE: - such element here, I, I really
have nothing more to say to you.
DICK: Nicole, we have the milk.
NICOLE: Well, where --
DICK: And I made that clear to both --
NICOLE: Are you going to let it go sour?
Are you going to let it sit out there and go sour?
DICK:
fellows in there
you the milk and
go in.
NICOLE
We want the milk
DICK:
NICOLE
DICK:
NICOLE~ 25
No. we're -- I told, I told the
that we're, we're prepared to, to give
to send the kids out and the milk will
No, we're not sending the kids out.
here.
That's exactly where it's going to be.
well, why --
we're going to send the milk in.
Okay. And we're not sending the
kids out. We, we need the milk here for the babies.
DICK:
But as I indicated
unidentified male
discernible! -- weI hear what you're saying, Nicole.
to Steve and to David --
voice in background not
need to make concessions to one
another. This is how you --
NICOLE: Look, these are David's babies, all
right? They need milk.
DICK: I know.
NICOLE: They've had none for 3, 4, 5, 6 days
because the mothers are so stressed out with all this
baloney, garbage
DICK:stuff you're throwing up at us.
Well, it's not garbage. I am sorry
you feel that way. Because we are ready to send the
milk in. And --
NICOLE: Well --
Q 1 26
DICK: -- and I've said that repeatedly this
morning. was the first thing I said to --
NICOLE: You keep saying, Dick. But we
haven't seen it.
DICK: What did I tell them? Did they tell
you what I suggested?
NICOLE: You want kids out.
DICK: Absolutely.
NICOLE: well, then what, what point --
DICK: And the milk will come in.
NICOLE: -- is there in bringing milk in?
DICK: Pardon me? what, what does that have
to do with bringing milk in? My bosses have indicated
they're willing to do that if you're willing to send
some people out. We have to work with one another.
There has to be some give and some take. And we're
willing to do that.
NICOLE: Look .
DICK: And you're going to have to be willing
to give and take.
NICOLE: Dick, there's seven seals, all
right? And I've been in this message for 5 years, in
this truth.
DICK: Um-hum.
NICOLE: I have seen more than what you could
have ever seen. I have an experience that you don't
O Q 2.
understand. God said wait. And so I'm waiting.
Because I am trusting in something that I have seen,
that I have experienced. I don't trust in you kind of
people.
DICK: Well, I think we've shown you a lot of
good trust and good faith and reason for you to --
NICOLE: No, you've shown me no trust at all.
DICK: No, that's not --
NICOLE: No trust.
DICK: -- true. I'm sorry you feel that way,
Nicole. But that is --
NICOLE: Lamb-like and you speak like a
dragon. That's what I've experienced.
DICK: Nicole, we're interested in ensuring
your safety and all the other folks in there --
NICOLE: My --
DICK: -- and your kids.
NICOLE: You come in here and start blasting
the place while it's full of kids. You don't, you
don't come with your arrest warrant. I was down there
when Robert Gonzales came in here, all right?
DICK: Um-hum.
NICOLE: I was there. I noticed -- I was
very suspicious of his behavior.
DICK: Okay.
NICOLE: The way he was in the study.
I Z .8
DICK: Um-hum.
NICOLE: I was very suspicious. And then he
said he wasn't going to come back until Monday. He
shows up on Sunday morning with a newspaper with an
article on our members here full of baloney from the
press. He comes in. He sits down.
DICK: Is that the first time you had seen
that article?
NICOLE: No. we, we -- that was -- we'd
already had one the day before.
DICK: Okay.
NICOLE: Okay?
DICK: Okay.
NICOLE: And he came in here. I remember
standing at the window. I was about to walk off. And
he looked up at me. But the expression he had on his
face made me even more suspicious again. Okay?
DICK: I understand what you're saying.
NICOLE: Then he leaves. Ten minutes later
we've got the whole place in bullets. I mean --
DICK: Nicole, all of us -- please. I am as
appalled about what happened as you are. You'll have
to believe that. I don't want to ever see anything
like this happen. I was not there. I'm with another
agency. They're --
NICOLE: You have, you have agents that have
left your agency
trigger happy.
DICK:
NICOLE
DICK:
BATF.
NICOLE
DICK:
NICOLE
a dragon.
DICK:X 29
for this very reason. Because they're
From the FBI?
The BATF.
Well, see, again I'm not with the
It's all the same thing.
Well, no, it isn't.
You're all lamb-like and speak like
That's like saying your religious
group - that's like saying your group is the same as
every other religious group. And that's not true, is
it?
NICOLE: You're all under the same
government.
DICK:
God too.Absolutely. We all are under the same
NICOLE: Exactly.
DICK:
yet you have --And we're all under the same God. But
NICOLE: No, we're not all under the same
God.
DICK: Well --
NICOLE: But we're judged by the same God.
DICK: We, we all believe in a form of a God,
O Q 3.
do we not? I mean most of us. Let's face it, most of
us do.
NICOLE: You don't know our God.
DICK:
ATF are not evenIn the same fashion the FBI and the
under the same department in the
government. We're not even under the same department.
And I will tell you that all our respective agency
heads are just, just devastated by the way this thing
was handled on Sunday. We do not condone it. We do
not accept it. We will not accept it. And everything
that we do in not only ATF --
NICOLE
DICK:
that --
NICOLE
DICK:
again.
NICOLE
DICK:
NICOLE
DICK:
NICOLE
DICK:
NICOLE
for 5 days.
DICK:Dick.
-- but the FBI will be scrutinized so
Dick.
-- make sure that doesn't happen
I have a 1-year-old little girl.
Okay.
Okay?
What's her name.
Her name is Paigis phonetic sp.!.
Paigis?
Okay? And she hasn't had any milk
Okay.
.______---nnIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIlIlIIIlI.lllllllu||
I "*
that we
into you
in milk
it's th92_/ I/Q 31
NICOLE: Okay, I'm doing the best that I
DICK: You as a mother then should demand
that, that David allow us to get that milk
then. They say they're no longer interested
because it came up 4 days ago, and because
ere you no longer have an interest. It would
seem ~-
greaterNICOLE: We have an interest.
DICK: -- to me that interest would be even
OW.
what theNICOLE: Why don't you send it in?
DICK: We are prepared to send it in.
NICOLE: well, just send it in. I don't know
big hold up is.
the milkDICK: David, David is not agreeable to that.
NICOLE: He's not agreeable for you to send
in.
hope yourDICK: Exactly.
NICOLE: I have nothing more to say to you,
DICK: Well, I hope you're doing well. I
child is doing well. And, and I hope that --
DAVID: Dick, listen to me.
DICK: I'm listening.
DAVID: The God that you do not understand in
I Q ..
You can go ahead, and you can listen to me
talk, and you can listen to me rattle. And you can
listen to me go line upon line, precept on precept,
here a little, there a little and show you all over the
book the comparisons of the same idealogy as the
prophets. But what you fail to understand is the fear
of that God who's going to back those words. Ezekiel
says there will come a time when there will be the
effect of every vision. Now you're going to be in
trouble.
And you know something, one of the greatest
things that's going to be done to people like you is
that for 100 years all the great men, the mighty men,
the wicked men of the earth are going to be hurled
together. And that's going to be your hell. You're
going to live in a world where pride and arrogancy
sic! opinion and self is going to be predominant. And
you know what? There's people in the world that's been
bigger than you, more deceptive than you.
Now, I asked for you milk for the children.
They're neutral. And God is registering exactly
everything --
DICK: David, I understand they're neutral.
Send those kids out. They are neutral. Send them out.
DAVID: Hey. I told you my God said wait.
Now if you want to make a move, buster, go ahead and
- .__
V 92__r _,/ 34
make a move.
DICK: We - David I'll assure you
DAVID: Now --
DICK: that there is not going to be any
move made.
DAVID: Listen to me. It doesn't make any
difference to me at this point. Because like I said,
you're going to learn the hard way. And I got a gift
for you. You read Psalms 137 and let me remind you it
shall be filled upon you and your family to the letter.
Do you understand? Read this Psalm and try to observe
some wisdom. And that's from God.
DICK: David, you said you cared about me the
other day. And then all of a sudden now you're mad at
me. I don't understand why.
DAVID: Hey. You're getting me mad. And
that's all right --
DICK: Well, I'm not trying to.
DAVID: - because in Psalms 2 you don't want
to kiss with me, then go ahead and make me angry.
Remember, it's just the Bible. If it's not true, you
have no fears. But if it's true, you have a great fear
to come upon you unlike you've ever known.
DICK: David, I read an article to, to Steve
and to Nicole with that, you know, is representative of
some of the stuff that people are saying. Can I give
I Q ..
OLIVER: This is Oliver.
DICK: What's your name, please?
OLIVER: My name is Oliver.
DICK: Oliver?
OLIVER: Gyarfas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Oliver.
DICK: Spell that last name?
QLIVER: G-YA-RFAS.
DICK: Okay. What can I do for you?
OLIVER: I'm Hungarian.
DICK: Okay.
OLIVER: Yeah, I have a sister here that has
a young baby.
DICK: All right. what is her name, and
what's the baby's name? Unidentified voices in
background not discernible.!
OLIVER: Her name is Isha phonetic sp.!
Gyarsas. She's my sister.
DICK: Okay. And, and she has a baby? What
age is the baby?
OLIVER: She's around 1, l1/2.
DICK: She needs some milk is what you're
saying.
OLIVER: Yes, she needs the milk. You know,
she's real hungry. She, she's dependent on it.
DICK: I absolutely am willing to get that
I Q .7
milk in to you. I've communicated that to Nicole,
Steve and David this morning a number of times.
OLIVER: She's also fixing to have another
one.
DICK: Well, what time is she going to do
that? I mean how far along is she?
OLIVER: It's quite soon. I'm not really
sure as to the date but, you know --
DICK: Okay. Well, let's get the milk in.
We're, we're willing you know. We're willing and
we're ready to do it.
OLIVER: Well, when? You know --
DICK: As soon as you get the children with
their coats on and send them out. Unidentified male
voice in background not discernible.!
OLIVER: I don't, I don't think we can send
the children out, you know.
DICK: You know, David just told me that the
kids are neutral. That means that there is no reason
for the children to stay there. Unidentified male
voice in background not discernible.! We've asked that
four children come out, and we will send in milk. An
adult will come out with them and take the milk back
in, and the children will be, will remain with us. And
we will ensure their safety and their, and their care
and their well-being. Your sister, please, have her
I Q ..
send one of her children out.
OLIVER: See we, we understand that. But at
the moment, we want to keep the kids. And while we're
keeping the kids we'd, we'd like some milk for the
kids, you know? I mean --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That's what you
want.
DICK: That's exactly what I want to do.
OLIVER: -- I'm sure we'd send them out
eventually. But you know, it's -- we, we want milk
right now, because they need it right now.
DICK: I understand. And we're ready to go
right now. We're ready to go right now. You have to
tell David and others - and you guys sit down and talk
about this. l
OLIVER: Believe me, we have.
DICK: Don't let somebody make your decision
for you.
OLIVER: Oh, no.
DICK: Talk it over amongst yourselves. Get
together with your sister.
OLIVER: Hey, if I wanted to leave, buddy,
I'd leave right now.
DICK: I'm not suggesting you'd leave at all.
Not at all.
OLIVER: I want to stay here with my family.
I I 39
DICK: Great. Great. I feel, I feel happy
for you. However, those children are not old enough to
make
have
show
with
dealthat decision on their own, are they? You - we
to help one another out here. And we need some
of your good faith and willingness to, to work
us. And we're happy to do that.
OLIVER: we just want some milk. It's no big
DICK: The milk, the milk is ready.
OLIVER: We gave you money. We gave you
$1,000.
DICK: Listen, we're the money. You know,
we'll send the money back to you folks if you're
concerned about the money.
OLIVER: No, we want milk. We don't want
money. We want milk.
DICK: well, no, that's not an issue then.
The money is not an issue. The milk we will have for
you.We have the milk for you.
OLIVER: well, send it over for God's sake.
What's your problem?
DICK: Pardon me? Pardon me?
OLIVER: Send it over for God's sake.
DICK: We're ready to send it to you. You
know, I don't know how I can, I can tell you any - you
know, we're ready. We're ready to go. It's here.
Q ~ .0
It's a demonstration of what we're willing to do for
you. But yet on the other hand, you're unwilling to do
anything for us.
OLIVER: We sent you a lot of kids, buddy.
We, we did send you, send you a lot of kids.
DICK: There are a number of kids that came
out. And is that something that we're supposed to be
happy about? It's these children --
OLIVER: Well, sure --
DICK: - that we're interested in caring
for. I mean you, you think that's something, you know,
is that for me? Or I mean what it is it's for the
welfare of those children and the families.
OLIVER: Oh, yes.
DICK: You said -- David said that all of you
would come out if we allowed you to do certain things
which we allowed. we -- you, you put the tape
together. We didn't edit it. It got on national
television in its entirety. No editing. David assured
us that as soon as that was done all of you were coming
out. So we took David at his word.
OLIVER: Okay. There's someone else who
wants to talk to you, another mother. Okay?
DICK: Put, put her on.
[9aP]
KATHY: Hello?
Q K .1
DICK:
KATHY:
DICK:
KATHY:
DICK:
KATHY:
DICK:
KATHY:
DICK:
KATHY:
babies when they'
we've asked for.
DICK:
KATHY:
DICK:
KATHY:
DICK:Good morning.
Good morning.
who is this?
This is Kathy.
Kathy, how are you this morning?
Just fine indiscernible!.
I hope you're doing better.
I'm sorry?
I hope you're doing well.
well, I'm trying. It's hard with the
re hungry and crying for the milk
Kathy, I'm a father of two children.
Then you should understand.
I completely understand.
Doesn't seem like it. A
I understand your concern. And I will
agree. I want to get the milk in. I've told David
that. I've told Steven that. I've told that to
Nicole. I'll tell it to you. And, and the fellow I
just spoke with. I've told you all the same thing. We
have the milk. We'll, we'll get the milk in to you.
But --
KATHY:
DICK:
KATHY:Oh, you have the milk. Good, good.
The milk we --
will we be expecting it today, then?
' 1 42
DICK: You will expect it as soon as you send
the kids out to us.
KATHY: As soon -- we don't need the milk to
send the kids out to you.
DICK: Pardon me?
KATHY: Not only that, but I don't really
want to send my child out to you. Know why? Because
you did not keep your promise. Those children were to
be sent to their homes with people they know, they're
familiar with. You go off, you keep them at some
house. I don't know where they are.
DICK: Kathy, they're all together.
KATHY: Cut off their hair. Oh, my God.
DICK: Kathy, that's completely in error.
One child asked to have his or her hair cut.
KATHY: One child asked to have his hair cut?
which one?
DICK: I don't know which child it was. I
don't have the name. However, those children are being
well cared for. And there was some concern, and I'm
sure you had some concern, too, about how the kids were
going to be cared for. So rather than have somebody
accept my word, we got a videotape --
KATHY: Dick, Dick, Dick, Dick. Why did
Nahara have his hair cut?
DICK: Pardon me?
O Q .3
KATHY: Why did Nahara have his hair cut?
DICK: I have no idea. But you know what, I
will find that out for you. That's --
KATHY: Thank you. I would appreciate that.
DICK: We will do that. And please tell Sita
that we will find that out.
KATHY: Okay.
DICK: We'll be happy to. But Sita was
worried about her child having pork. And I've assured
her that that child is not having pork. You know --
KATHY: Good --
DICK: -- I know you folks are concerned
about the care of those kids. The only person that
will do a better job is the mother or the father. And
you have that option, but you're not going to exercise
that option. So --
KATHY: We, we really have no choice in that
matter --
DICK: Are you going to hold me --
KATHY: -- as far as your treatment, as far
as what you've done.
DICK: We are treating those children very,
very well.
KATHY: when you find out why Nahara got his
hair cut, please make sure you call us back and tell
us. We're very concerned.
Q 1 4.
DICK: I'm going to run that down certainly.
I'll --
KATHY: Good.
DICK: I'll find out. Kathy, I will have
the milk there for you. Please, talk among yourself
and, and let's work together on this. And, and you
folks get together. And the overriding concern in this
whole, this whole thing is for the care of those
children immediately.
KATHY: Okay, well, when you find out all
these things and when you get the milk sent out, please
call back, okay? Goodbye.
>92'****
SCOTT: Hello?
DICK: Hello, this is Dick. Who's this?
SCOTT: Scott.
DICK: Scott, listen. I just wanted to let
you folks know, and I'm sure you have not forgotten.
But the daily press briefing that I know you have a lot
of interest in --
SCOTT: Um-hum.
DICK: - is going to be on in short moments.
And we'll get back to you after the conclusion of that.
SCOTT: Okay.
DICK: All right. Very well.
SCOTT: Okay, bye.
O X 45
no ringing
you very p
tower ther
What's goi
you're --
now?DICK: Bye now.
9<****
DICK: we didn't do something right. We got
>'<*>'<**
STEVE: Hello?
DICK: Hello?
STEVE: Hello?
DICK: Hello, Steve?
STEVE: Yes. Dick?
DICK: Can you hear me?
STEVE: Yes, I can hear you.
DICK: Okay, well, I can't hear you well.
STEVE: You can't?
DICK: How about now?
STEVE: Yeah, I -- you're fine. I can hear
lainly.
DICK: Listen, you've got a guy up in your
e with a balaclava on and cammy paint.
ng on out there? You think this is a game?
STEVE: Listen. I don't even know what
DICK: Well, get ~-
STEVE: - what's - tell me what's happening
DICK: I'm telling you that you've got a man4
Q X 4.
in cammy paint and a balaclava --
STEVE: wait, what's I don't even know
what --
DICK: Camouflage paint.
STEVE: Okay, there's a guy with camouflage
paint and he's where at?
DICK: In your tower.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Upper left-
hand --
STEVE: Well, what do you mean there's a --
DICK: Upper lefthand window of your tower
in the center back side.
STEVE: And what is he supposed to be doing?
DICK: Well, the question is you think this
is a game? You think this is a game we're playing?
STEVE: I don't even know - what are you
talking about, Dick? Make yourself plain. There's a
guy in the tower. What does that mean?
DICK: With camouflage paint as though he's
looking the area over and making some sort of a move on
something. Is that what you want to do?
STEVE: I don't -- now this is the first I've
even heard of it. I don't even know what you're
talking about. I'd have to go investigate.
DICK: well, then you better find out what
we're talking about. You're the person in charge in
I Q .7
there, you and David. You better take care of these
kinds of things,
there.
STEVE:and you better control those people in
Or what? Do you want to take us --
do you want to come in and take us out?
DICK:
want to do.
STEVE:
find out what is
DICK:
STEVE:
anything. I don
DICK:
STEVE:
DICK:
find out what --
STEVE:
DICK:
STEVE:
DICK:
STEVE:
DICK:
STEVE:No. That's exactly what we do not
Okay, just relax a minute. Let me
going on.
You find, you find out --
This is the first I've heard
t even know what you're talking about.
You find out. It's the --
Look, I'll call you back.
- upper window on the tower. You
I'll call you back, Dick.
Very well.
Okay, bye.
*9<***
Hello?
Hello, Dick?
Yes.
I went and checked it out. Someone
was looking out the window. They might -- they had a
camouflage jacket on. Is that what you're talking
Q X .8
about?
DICK: And a balaclava.
STEVE: And a bottle of what?
DICK: A balaclava.
STEVE: I have -- what is a balaclava.
DICK: Well, you check with your people and
find out what a balaclava is if you don't know what it
is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Hood.
STEVE: I have no idea.
DICK: It's a hood. It's a hood.
STEVE: It's a what?
DICK: It's a hood that goes over the face.
STEVE: We don't even have such a thing. I
don't know where on earth you have that. There's a
woman up there we got some jackets a long time ago.
Some guy sold us some things. They were cheap like a
dollar or so for the clothes. So the -- and they're
100 percent cotton. There's a woman up there that had
a jacket on that is looking out the window.
DICK: Let me tell you something, Steve. I'm
sitting here trying to work with you getting no
cooperation from you -~
STEVE: Are you, are you hearing me though?
DICK: And then --
STEVE: That's -- I'm telling you what it is.
Q X .9
I checked it out. That's exactly what it was.
DICK: Well, I'm glad you did. But let's
caution those people in there about those kinds of
things. We've got people out there that get concerned
when they see that kind of thing.
STEVE: See someone looking out the window?
DICK: N0.
STEVE: No, no. You listen to me. We --
DICK: Making those kind
STEVE: - get concerned when you're on our
damn property and you have never come around and said
what you would do from the beginning. I am tired of
even dealing with you, Dick. I really am tired of it
day after day after day going on this merrygo-round
with you. Over and over again the same thing. Remove
your crap off our property, and we might get serious
with you like you originally said.
You call me threatening me because we have a
human being in our building looking out the window with
a bala what is it, whatever it is? You speak your
stupid, crazy language. I don't even know what you're
talking about. Don't accuse me and threaten me of
anything. If you want to take me out and take these
people out, do so. You don't believe in God. You
don't believe in the Bible. Try it and find out. I'm
anxious to see myself.
l
l
92O X 50
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: See if they
believe in God.
STEVE: See if you believe in a God. I know,
I really know you don't.
DICK: You think you're the only one that
talks to God out there?
STEVE: I have never said that, Dick. But I
mean these, the way your manner has been round and
around, we've only -- we've been so clear about things
from the beginning with you --
DICK: If anything that you have been clear
about --
STEVE: -- you guys, you have not complied --
no, no, no. You have not complied from day one with
having your vehicles on our private property which you
agreed to. You agreed to that, Dick, you and your
people there. And still they wander around, and you've
got the audacity to call me up because a human being is
looking out a window when you've got guys in our
automobiles, moving our motorcycles, doing things that
you never called me about.
You know what I want to say to you? And I'm
trying to hold back. Because I still love you and your
soul and those people down there. I do want to
communicate with you. We all do. But what is this
one-sided business, Dick? Let's start being real
X 51
serious.
DICK: That's our point.
STEVE: No, no, it is not your point. You
start looking at what and then and you're recording
everything. You look to hear what you're saying. It
becomes very redundant when you're repetitively saying
the same thing -- unidentified male voice in
background not discernible! --
DICK: Listen ~
STEVE: Listen. And you're evading your
statements. You asked me to look at that press
conference. I did. It made me sick also.
DICK: Listen, when you fired on federal
officers, you lost some of your private property
rights.
STEVE: No, when they fired on human beings
that are to be protected by this very government which
is for the people, by the people. They should be stuck
in jail right now. That investigation should - just a
minute. Here's David.
STEVE TO DAVID: He says we lost our rights
when we fired on them.
DAVID: Now, Dick, let me say something. You
think the only people in this organization is here at
this camp? You ask Robert Gonzales what I told him,
what I've told everybody else. I've gone all around
X 52
this world ever since 1985. We're not the only people
that believe this message.
DICK: David, you're not the only one that
listens to God either.
DAVID: No. Let me tell you something. My
God has seven seals. Your God does not. You do not
know the seven seals. You therefore are out of rank
with the living God. And this nation is going to learn
of a living God. As little David of old went before
Goliath, I stand before you. You and this nation's
going to learn there's a God in heaven. He has a
truth, and just because you wish to evade it, just
because you do not know the fear of the Lord does not
mean you're going to be without responsibility. You
are going to pay.
Now keep your press conferences going. Keep
communications going. But remember, I'm telling you
there's a lot more of us than you know. A lot more
than you realize.
DICK: what is that supposed to imply?
DAVID: That implies you go ahead and you do
with us what you feel. You go ahead and tell the press
what you want.
DICK: We're trying to --
DAVID: Because that's what you're doing.
DICK: -- communicate to you in part --
X 5.
DAVID: And I am trying to communicate with
you. Everything I've said you've got recorded. Now
you -- I suggest to you you review in the fear of God
very prayerfully what I've shown you all over that
scripture, all over that Bible.
DICK: Listen, David, we're going to work
together to resolve this issue. We are --
DAVID: Oh, you, you --
DICK: -- going to do that.
DAVID: - we, we referring to you and who
else there?
DICK: No. That we meaning we here and you
in there are going to work together to resolve this
issue. And the sooner that we agree on that, the
sooner we're going to get it resolved appropriately
with --
DAVID: Do not call us up and tell us that
someone is looking out the window. We have the right
to look out. This is God's world. His sun is shining
outside. we can look out if we want to.
DICK: I did not tell you to look out the
window. I said take care in the manner in which you do
that so nothing --
DAVID: Right. You fire on us --
DICK: So that nothing happens.
DAVID: -- you fire on us and it starts.
F
I
92
92
92I U92~ 5.
DICK: There is no firing going to be done.
DAVID: Okay. So you don't have to warn us
about looking out the window then.
DICK: I am telling you that the safety rules
need to be followed. We talked --
DAVID: Okay. So follow them.
DICK: - about that. You understand them.
We understand them.
DAVID: Follow them.
DICK: And as long as we both understand
them, there will be no problem.
DAVID: Follow them then, Dick. Okay?
DICK: Do we agree? They're -- the safety
rules -
DAVID: We agree.
DICK: - are going to be followed. Is that
correct?
DAVID: Mine and yours.
DICK: Absolutely. There will be no
problems. But we'll work together with one another to
ensure that does not happen.
DAVID: Are you worried about dying, Dick?
DICK: Am I worried about dying?
DAVID: Yes.
DICK: Not today or tomorrow, now.
DAVID: Okay. That's good. We share the
Q5 55
same.
DICK: well, then let's get this worked out
between us and ensure that there is no further injury
to anybody on either side. And to do that --
DAVID: Well, then why are you calling us up
now? What's the nature of this call?
DICK: The nature of the call is to --
End of tape 79.!
G
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPE #80
3/7/93
12:36 A.M. - 3:16 P.M.O 1
F
kQ U 2
Tape 80!
DICK: -- we must communicate with one
another.
DAVID: So in other words every time we look
out the window we have to call and tell you?
DICK: No, that is not what you have to do.
However --
DAVID: Are you saying that someone was
looking out the window with a high-powered rifle scoped
in on one of your men? Is that what you're saying?
DICK: No. But there is some concern that
given what had happened there if people are wearing
camo paint - you know what camo paint is, do you not?
DAVID: Yes, I do.
DICK: All right. we're concerned when we
see people wearing balaclavas on a nice day like this
looking out the window with black face paint on.
DAVID: Well, what's wrong with that?
DICK: well, what does that indicate to you?
DAVID: It indicates war, Dick.
DICK: well, that's not what we want. And
that's not what you want.
DAVID: Okay. Then why are you bringing this
military equipment here for war? Why did the ATF
agents come in here after I had been ~-
DICK: For the safety of all parties
Q 9 3
involved --
DAVID: No. For the safety of themselves so
they could come in, push around a bunch of people, kick
people down on the ground and exalt about it the next
few days about how they pushed American citizens
around. That's going to stop, Dick.
DICK: I read to you this morning --
DAVID: Do you understand me?
DICK: - what the press, what the response
was.
DAVID: This is just the beginning, Dick.
There's a lot more of us than you realize, Dick.
DICK: I understand what you're saying,
David. But let's end --
DAVID: You do not understand.
DICK: let's end it now that's still --
DAVID: Mr., Mr. General Public is also
watching too.
DICK: Absolutely. I read you an excerpt
from a, from a article this morning concerning the
people in the public that are, are concerned and are
watching. And they support the fact that your
contention that the government was at fault. There are
a lot of people that understand that ~
DAVID: I am saying --
DICK: an would agree with you.
Q O
DAVID: I'm not saying that the government a
large is at fault. I am saying that the government
which is supposed to be of the people, for the people,
by the people are ignorant that there are certain
powers in the hands of certain individuals who are not
responsible enough to hold those positions.
DICK: Then take the opportunity to explain
that.
DAVID: I am going to as soon as I get my
message --
DICK: well, then we're in agreement. We
agree on that, do we not?
DAVID: Now - yes. So stop calling us up
and making these bogus and very silly and stupid
offers.
DICK: Let's follow the rules for our --
DAVID: The babies are innocent. Now --
DICK: Absolutely.
DAVID: - send the milk for the babies.
DICK: Let's absolutely. We're ready to
go. You send the kids out as we have agreed and what
we talked about, and the milk will get in.
DAVID: We never agreed to that. You agreed
to that. I did not agree to that. You agreed to that
DICK: Well, let's agree to it then. Let's
agree to it then.
Q O 5
DAVID: Absolutely not. You send the milk
for the --
DICK: Let's get it done.
DAVID: Look. Three children ago we agreed
on the milk. You've lied three children ago.
DICK: There was no lie.
DAVID: Mark yes. Mark was the one that
we agreed on the milk. Jim says I'll see what we --
DICK: That is absolutely untrue. David,
listen. Don't --
DAVID: Oh, it isn't. I'm a liar then. We
can't do nothing I say.
DICK: Don't put words in my mouth. I will
not put words in your mouth. Let's have mutual respect
for one another. I will listen to you. You will
listen to me. Is that agreed?
DAVID: To a degree.
DICK: Let's talk. Let's get this done.
DAVID: What is the talk accomplishing?
DICK: Let's get off, let's get off the
center mark here. We'll get the milk in to you. You
send kids out.
DAVID: You stated on the TV, you stated on
the TV that you offered us the milk and we refused it.
DICK: That's exactly true.
DAVID: Oh, it is. Oh, wait a minute.
Q Q 6
DICK: We offered you - I am offering you
once again the milk. Right here and now I am offering
you the milk.
STEVE: We heard such a one-sided thing. You
never brought in how it was part of a negotiation, that
it was a part of a bargaining process, an exchange.
It, it came -- hello, Dick?
DICK: I'm here.
STEVE: Okay. You know yourself it came
across loud and clear like you were offering to us but
for some crazy reason we rejected it. Over and over
again --
DICK: You reject our terms. Did you not
reject our terms?
STEVE: That was not made clear that it was
terms or anything else. It was --
DICK: Absolutely. It was very clear to me.
STEVE: I listened to this very well.
DICK: I watched the same thing you did. I
watched the same thing you did, and it was very clear
to me.
STEVE: The, the - in fact, breaking that
whole session down, the connotations that were given
and a lot of phrases that were made I was, I was
amazed. It seems like it is breaking down just by the
very person Bob Ricks the way he was speaking.
Q 9 7
Sometimes he came through okay. Show complete
honesty --
DICK: Show us a sign, Steve.
STEVE: - in regards to these negotiations.
DICK: Show us a sign that you care one iota
about what we're trying to --
STEVE: We have --
DICK: -- accomplish here.
STEVE: -- Dick, haven't we have been?
DICK: Show us one sign. Show us one sign.
STEVE: Havent we been by sending out
children and all the rest?
DICK: when did you send out your last child?
DAVID: Not because indiscernible!.
STEVE: And that -- that's right. And that's
not even because you asked. It's because David
originated the thing to begin with. Is that --
DICK: Fine. I am --
STEVE: -- not true?
DICK: -- asking now and I have been asking
for several days as has John Cox. Let's get together.
Send those children out. we'll send the milk in.
We'll get that resolved on the television next time
around --
STEVE: Can I ask you? You be frank with me
now. What was the reason for you calling me up over
Q 5 8
such a thing with that kind of a spirit and --
DICK: Because ~-
STEVE: -- tell me what that was about.
DICK: -- I will tell you. Okay, would you
listen to me? I've told --
STEVE
DICK:
STEVE
DICK:I am listening.
-- you that before.
I am listening.
We have people outside as you well
know. These people are somewhat exposed at times, all
right? They're
outside as well
on the inside.
balaclava which
explain that --
STEVEconcerned about their safety on the
as you're concerned about your safety
when someone goes to a window with a
you were not familiar with. I will
we don't have, we don't have such a
thing by the way. That is wrong. It's incorrect.
Take a picture and show it and send it to me.
DICK:
the face?And -- well, how about black paint on
STEVE: No black paint on the face. You're
looking at a dark-skinned woman that was looking out a
window.
DICK: A dark-skinned woman --
STEVE: That's correct.
DICK: -- looking out the - in camouflage?
Q 9 9
STEVE: No, that had a camouflage jacket on.
DICK: I will relay that to those folks who
made the report.
STEVE: The excitement of you who's in a safe
place. These people are in Bradleys, and they're
reporting such things, someone looks out. I mean
incredible.
DICK: Well, what are you reporting to us?
Did you not report to us --
STEVE: Everything. We, we were getting
back --
DICK: -- things that concern you?
STEVE: -- remember how this morning how I
talked to you about bringing some kerosene in for
heaters, because there was a chill. It was cold. We
had run out.
DICK: I heard you talk about, yeah.
STEVE: Yes. And you didn't respond to that.
I was waiting for you to call back after that session
and we pick up to where we were.
DICK: It was not --
STEVE: And instead of you calling back with
something of substance, you're calling back with
something that is so foolish. Here are full-grown
military men in armor, iron clad vehicles, and they're
concerned about someone's face looking out the window
P~ . 10
with a bala whatever it is on their face. In the first
place it's not even true.
DICK: Would you have us just stand out there
on the road? Is that what you would prefer that we
did?
STEVE: Did I say anything like that?
DICK: Okay. Then understand what those
Bradleys are for.
STEVE: Don't we show - aren't we showing a
lot of trust with yourself, because we're not squawking
and screaming like these people are constantly?
DICK: Unidentified male voice in background
not discernible.! Listen, the Bradleys will remain
there with the people in them for protective. Okay,
for protective reasons.
STEVE: Have I said any --
DICK: All right?
STEVE: -- and did I ever say anything about
that, Dick?
DICK: Yes, you did.
STEVE: No, only from what Jim
DICK: We have talked about that at length
over the last 2 days.
STEVE: Only from -- hey, Dick, but only from
what Jim gave us from the beginning. And in fact it
was conversations in the beginning right after that one
U 9 .1
which had said --
DICK: Things - Steve, things are fluid
here, all right? We make -- we do certain things as a
result of what you do or do not do. We will continue
to do that to ensure our safety. We are trying to
ensure your safety as well.
STEVE: And you should -- that's why I have
reiterated to you, Dick, that our concern for your very
people - we do not we didn't fire first that time.
And this time watch and see what happens. Never have
we ever attempted to take human life. we are the ones
that wanted these guys to get out of here safely to a
hospital. Not only did we agree with them, we were
amazed at how slow they were coming on and taking off
the wounded. Just a moment. Here's David.
DAVID: I was talking with some of the guys.
DICK: Okay.
DAVID: Did you know there was three of your
agents that were being held at gunpoint? Did you know
that?
DICK: Three of the ATF agents?
DAVID: Yeah, one guy - yes. One guy, 6'3",
was crying please, don't shoot. Don't shoot. And the
guys --
DICK: What, what are - what point are you
making there?
Q 9 .2
DAVID
DICK:
DAVID
know that Wayne
These guys were
DICK:And, and the guys did not shoot him.
Well, I, I --
Now did you know that Wayne, did you
faced one of your ATF agents too.
scared to death.
You think our agents didn't or the ATF
agents didn't face some of your people?
DAVID: Oh, I know they did. They tried to
shoot them.
DICK: Let's face it.
DAVID: They tried to shoot them.
DICK: Both sides were concerned, confused
and probably scared. ~
DAVID:
were not scared
surprise.
DICK:
scared --
DAVID
DICK:
then, then, youNo, no. We weren't confused, and we
no. The women were the ones taken by
Well, listen, listen. If you were not
Now look --
-- when somebody is firing at you
know, you're, you're an unusual person.
DAVID: Hey, I was the one that went -- I was
the one that went to the door, remember? I was the one
that first met them all. I was the one first fired at
several times.
DICK: Fine. All right.
Q 9 13
DAVID: You like to - that's all right.
Okay, cool. Now
DICK: No, I'm saying I will believe you.
DAVID: Okay, here's the thing.
DICK: Tell me that.
DAVID: Here's the thing. That agent that
shot me, you see what I'm saying, the only reason why
he --
DICK: Okay.
DAVID: - he shot me was because I was going
to say something to him, and he wasn't fired upon.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: Otherwise, he would have never shot
me. You don't seem to understand our appreciation for
life --
DICK: David, make that point.
DAVID: or our love for souls.
DICK: David, if you have a self-defense
defense, then make that case. Make that case.
DAVID: I'm going to.
DICK: That's all we want you to do. And
that's what we've been telling you for several days.
DAVID: You want me to come out.
DICK: Absolutely.
DAVID: I told you I'm going to come out. My
problem is - your problem is you don't understand that
Q O 1.
there's a chain of command here. You don't --
DICK:
DAVID:The question is, David --
-- where I got this information from.
You do not believe. You are not a believer in the
spirit of prophecy.
DICK:
would leave that
DAVID:
DICK:
told us that you
folks out there -
DAVID:
DICK:David, you gave us your word that you
compound --
Yes. Now you take it up with God.
Listen to me now. Listen to me. You
would leave that compound with all the
Immediately.
- after you were allowed to make a
broadcast over the Christian Broadcast Network.
DAVID:
with you.
DICK:
break your word?
DAVID:
your word?
DICK:
DAVID:
DICK:
DAVID:
DICK:
DAVID:That's exactly what I said. I agree
Now did you break your word? Did you
Yes, I broke my word. Did you break
N0.
Yes, you did.
We followed up -
Oh.
as a result of your non-compliance.
Now --
i
FDICK:
DAVID:
DICK:
DAVID:
DICK:
DAVID:
DICK:
out.
DAVID:O 15
Did we not?
N0.
Now answer me that question?
Wrong.
Did you agree to come out?
Wrong. Yes.
You just told me you agreed to come
Yes. Now you want to start twisting
words and start getting nowhere? You want to play the
rubber band word routine? Unidentified male voice in
background not discernible.! Now my God stated to
wait. Things are being developed at this very moment.
Okay?
DICK: Things are being developed by the law
enforcement community here at the same time. You
understand that?
DAVID:
DICK:
DAVID:
DICK:I do understand that.
Well, you better understand it, David.
I do.
Because we got to work out a
resolution to this.
DAVID: You big boys do what you got to do,
and we'll do what we have to do. All right?
DICK:
DAVID:Let's --
If you don't want to sit and wait
Q 0 .6
like I asked, then make your move.
DICK: We're working together. Nobody's
going to make a move. But you're going to have to work
with us. We're going to have to work together to get
this resolved safely.
DAVID: Look. The talk is becoming vain. I
told you I am ready and willing to come out. You do
not understand me. You do not understand what I'm
saying. You do not believe me. I've already sent
children out to you. I made that move. You did not
require --
DICK: You told me that the children are
innocent, do you not this morning?
DAVID: Oh, sure they are.
DICK: Then let's send them out. Let's send
them out of that house right now.
DAVID: NO .
DICK: Let's send them out.
DAVID: So just --
DICK: You're telling me the children are
innocents --
DAVID: So they are.
DICK: -- but yet you want to keep them in
there?
DAVID: Look, I'm keeping --
DICK: What is the purpose for that?
U Q 1.
DAVID: Hey, none of your business.
DICK: Well, give me a reason for it.
DAVID: I don't have to.
DICK: Give me a reason. Give me --
DAVID: I don't have to.
DICK: - give me a cogent reason for those
kinds of things.
DAVID: I have right to remain silent.
Anything I say can and will be held against me in a
court of law. There is my Miranda rights.
You, you people just are so arrogant, so
proud and so foolish. why don't you learn the
everlasting gospel? Why don't you believe Revelation
14? Why don't you fear God and give him glory? Know
what his judgment is? His judgment is he gave a book
to his son. Why don't you believe that? Then you know
the other part about Babylon is fallen. Your confusion
would be gone. If you were to look at Psalms 2, you'd
realize who you're fighting against.
DICK: David --
DAVID: Now look at --
DICK: -- you're not the only one that
believes in God or a God, all right?
DAVID: No, no, no. I'm the only one that
has the proper understanding of God and the light of
the seven seals. Now contend with me on that. What's
Q I 18
the third seal? Where is it found? Tell me. Come on.
You got the prophecies there in front of you. You got
the Bible. Where's it at?
DICK: I'm not going to argue about the seals
with you.
DAVID: Okay. Okay. Now look. You're ~
I'll give you an honest opportunity before God blows
your rearend away. You get on the phone. You call
Vatican. You call everywhere you want to in the world.
You find a priest. You find a teacher. And you tell
him to tell you and show you where the third seal is.
DICK: David --
DAVID: Then I'll send you out another child.
DICK: listen. The seals are all well and
good. And we will deal with --
DAVID: You don't know what they are.
They're, they're evil against you though.
DICK: David, you can tell me about that.
DAVID: They're going to destroy you and
punish you with immense torments. They're good for us.
Bad for you though.
DICK: David, let's get those innocent
children out of there.
DAVID: Okay. Call me up and show me where
the third seal is, and then I'm going to send you more
children out.
Q I
DICK: David, I told you that
position
DAVID: Oh, what? Oh, so you
take up God's little task here, huh?
DICK: It's not - that's not
DAVID: Father, it looks like
have to do your work.
DICK: That is not the point,19
I am not in a
don't want to
the point.
you're going to
David.
DAVID: Oh, it is the point where I come
from. You may not fear God. You may not fear his
judiciary. You may laugh and scoff at his judgment.
DICK: David, I have never done that in all
the conversations we had.
DAVID: Yes, you are doing that right now my
friend. And you need to understand. That's what
you're doing. And you're starting to make me mad. Now
why don't you read Psalms 2 one more time. Let's try
to calm down --
DICK: David, do you respect what I'm trying
to do with you, for you?
DAVID: I respect nothing of you. Because
you have not deserved such respect.
DICK: You don't believe that
represented you --I have
DAVID: You do not respect what I'm trying to
do for you, do you? You don't respect what I'm trying
Q Q 2.
to do for you, do you?
DICK: David, I hear what you're saying.
DAVID: But you do not perceive it. Just
like Isaiah the prophet said. Having ears you hear
not, and having eyes you see not. A fat hard that's
put you to sleep. Hey, you need to read Isaiah 28 too.
It's a good prophecy about the drunkards.
DICK: David, I'm going to give you what my
understanding of the third seal is. And I want you to
get the kids in their coats and send them up the
street, and I will tell you what my belief concerning
the third seal is.
DAVID: I don't want your opinion. Give me
the prophetic fact.
DICK: The black horse and the rider. All
right? I'm going to give you part of it. You send
those kids out, and I will go into detail with the rest
of it. The measure of wheat for a penny. Three
measures of barley for a penny. Hurt not the oil and
the wine. Revelation 6, verses 5 and 6. Get those
children together, and send them out the door.
DAVID: That's your interpretation?
DICK: Unidentified male voice in background
not discernible.! That is the third seal. My
understanding is based on some of the things that you
told us and some our examinations of Revelation 6,
Q Q 21
verses 5 and 6. Now if I am in error or if I am in
wrong that may be in part. However, we are making an
effort to determine what those are and to listen to you
and to deal with what those things that you're telling
us about.
In turn, I expect you to get those children
together and send them out as we have agreed. I have
done what --
DAVID: You keep saying as we have agreed.
DICK: You suggested --
DAVID: Where is the third seal found?
DICK: Revelation 6, verses 5 and 6 is a --
DAVID: Making interruptive noise.! That
seal must be a mystery of God he declared to the
prophets. Where in the rise of the prophets is it
found?
DICK: David, I'll be glad ~~ I'll be very,
very glad to talk with you about that, okay? I'm not
an expert on this.
DAVID: Steve, I think it's going to be
time ~-
DICK: David, I'm not an expert on this.
I've admitted that to you.
DAVID: I know. And because you're rejecting
knowledge, God's going to reject you.
DICK: David, I don't reject any knowledge.
Q I 2.
A person would have to be a fool to reject knowledge,
would they not?
DAVID: Look. Let's hang up and let's calm
down.
DICK: we'll talk about it.
DAVID: And you call me back --
DICK: we'll talk --
DAVID: -- a little bit later, all right?
DICK: We'll talk about it. Now listen --
DAVID: Because --
DICK: -- we talk about --
DAVID: -- I'm also human too.
DICK: I understand. And we talk about the
third seal, and you're going to let some children leave
the compound. Is that correct?
DAVID: You are going to show me the third
seal, and I will let some children leave the compound.
DICK: David, how am I going to accept from
you that what you say that -- unidentified male voice
in background not discernible! -- in other words, I
tell you what the third seal is or what we believe the
third seal might be. But then you're going to say no,
that doesn't -- just like you did before. No --
DAVID: No, no, no. I never did that.
DICK: That's not, that's not the definition.
That's not my explanation. That's not God's
Q O 2.
explanation. And then --
DAVID: It's self-obvious. It's in the
prophesies. It's obvious.
DICK: David, what's obvious to you may not
be obvious to others.
DAVID: Hey. Psalms 45 is obvious. That's
the first seal. It's obvious. Even you know that.
The same king, the same crown, the same bow.
Everything in Psalms 45 is the same as the first seal
That's
horse.
horse.obvious. The second seal, the man on the red
Hey, Zechariah's prophesy, the man on the red
The same truth. The same seal.
DICK: They shall kill one another. He was
given a great sword.
him --
around
around
you'reDAVID: Yeah.
DICK: Great horse rider power was given to
DAVID: But that revolved, that revolves
DICK: -- to take peace from the earth.
DAVID: - that revolves, that revolves
Zechariah Chapter 1 and 2.
DICK: David, when I try to understand what
saying, you reject that out of hand. All righ
DAVID: I'm going to reject your opinions.
But when you're showing me right out of the Bible,t!
Q C 2,
reading it word for word, I'm going to accept it.
DICK: Hey, I'll be happy to read whatever it
is that you feel that will help me understand this from
the Bible. I will do that. There, you know, I'm not
disagreeing with that. I don't --
DAVID: Look.
DICK: -- want to reject knowledge at all.
DAVID: Let's unwind. Your voice is becoming
monotonous. Let's give it a fair chance. Sit back.
Take control of yourself. Sit down. Sit with those
other wise men of yours. And let's find that third
seal.
DICK: David, I will agree to sit down and
talk if you will agree to sit down and do the same
thing with the folks out there. Okay?
DAVID: I am.
DICK: I explained --
DAVID: I already told you you could talk to
the women.
DICK: I know. I know.
DAVID: It's not -- there's a lot of women
here who want to talk to you.
DICK: I know that. But I'm, I'm suggesting
that you talk together about the mutual welfare and,
and concern that you have for your children out there.
DAVID: Look. You either are going to comply
Q U 2.
1 with our small requirements --
2 DICK: I'm going to look. I'll give you my
3 word.
4 DAVID: Or, or, or --
5 DICK: I'll give you my word on that.
6 DAVID: -- you're going to come in here and
7 try to blow us up.
8 DICK: We're not going to do that.
9 DAVID: LOOk.
10 DICK: So we can start from that premise.
11 DAVID: You're going to try.
12 DICK: We're not going to do that. We're not
13 going to try to do that. We can agree on that. And
14 I'll call you back shortly with -- and we'll get
15 together again.
16 DAVID: And there's some girls that want to
17 talk to you.
18 DICK: I'll be happy --
19 DAVID: They, they want to give you a piece
20 of their mind.
21 DICK: I'll be happy to talk with them.
22 DAVID: And you can do what you wish to. You
23 can talk with them and, and, you know, convince them
24 that they need to come out. And if they desire to,
25 it's fine.
DICK: Well, kick --
D U 2.
DAVID: But right now, right now they're
really interested in those 6 gallons of milk.
DICK: Okay. David, please, do me a, do me a
favor at the same time. You talk amongst yourselves
and determine if you think that the welfare of these
children and the milk is worth some consideration. And
I'll get back to you shortly.
DAVID: It's always been. It's the chief
one.
DICK: Okay. I'll, I'll get back to you on
it then. Okay?
DAVID: All right.
DICK: All right. Bye now.
9< * *
STEVE: Hello?
DICK: Hello, Steve. Dick.
STEVE: Yeah, Dick. How you doing?
DICK: May I speak with David, please?
STEVE: Just a minute.
[939]
STEVE: Totally out cold.
DICK: Well, wake him. I've he's
suggested that he would talk to me as soon as I did
some looking at the third seal and spent some time
trying to understand and define the third seal. I've
done that. It's been a couple hours, and I would like
l I 27
you to ask him to, to go ahead and talk with me,
please.
STEVE: I'll try to wake him but, you know,
I'm not going to shout or scream or anything. But I
will try. I'm looking right at him. He's, he's
definitely out. Just a minute.
DICK: Well, he -- I'm doing this at his
request.
STEVE: Just a minute. David and Steve
speaking in background, not discernible.!
[9aP]
STEVE: Okay. what have you found on the
third seal?
DICK: Well, I need to communicate this to
David.
STEVE: Why to him?
DICK: Well, because he's the one that asked
me to do it. And he told me that he would talk with me
and then --
STEVE: He said he would, he would talk with
you?
DICK: He did. And that once we were able to
resolve this third seal that he would send out
children.
STEVE: He wants to talk to you, because
you're the one that told him that.
U U 2.
Here he is. Hang on, Dick.
DAVID: I'm here.
DICK: David.
DAVID: Yeah.
DICK: Dick .
DAVID: Go ahead.
DICK: I spent some time at your request
looking at this third seal.
DAVID: All right.
DICK: And I believe your question to me is
what is the third seal and what is - what does the
third seal represent?
DAVID: Where is it found in the Bible?
DICK: And it's my understanding that once --
that you're going to send some children out once we get
this, once we discuss this at some length. Is that --
DAVID: Uh-huh.
DICK: - is that -- that is the agreement
we're talking about, is it not?
DAVID: Yeah, where is it found.
DICK: And I appreciate your getting up. I
know you're tired, but I appreciate your getting up
and, and helping me out with this thing.
DAVID: Okay. Go ahead.
DICK: All right. We're - the third seal
we're talking about a famine condition that could be
Q Q 29
brought on the Roman empire as a result of their
persecution of the Christians in Asia Minor. We're
dealing with a black horse and rider.
DAVID: DiCk --
DICK: It has to do with possibility of
famine and that people should, should measure out their
wheat and that the days wages --
DAVID: Dick. You know, I love you guys so
much. But would you like me to share with you what the
third seal is?
DICK: Certainly. But David --
DAVID: Indiscernible.!
DICK: - do I have your agreement, do I have
your agreement that once we share this information with
one another I will, I will give you what I, I've tried
to determine and tried to find out. And I will listen
to your representation.
DAVID: Now, wait a minute. Here, turn the
light on, sweetheart. Thank you. Where's my Bible at?
I'm going to - got your Bible there, Dick?
DICK: Yes, I do.
DAVID: Okay. Did you ever get in touch with
Robert?
DICK: No. We have not been in touch with
Robert.
DAVID: wait one second here, all right?
Q O .0
David speaking in background, not discernible.!
[gap]
DAVID: Okay. You know, this is the most,
this is the most profound and awesome riddle the world
has ever received, isn't
DICK: Yes, itit?
is.
DAVID: And you know it's -- and the end of
the world ends on this riddle, you know? Okay.
Let's - let me remind you. In the third chapter of
Revelation, Christ talks to the church of Philadelphia.
And he tells them that he has the key of David, right?
DICK: Yes.
DAVID: He can
Now if it's true that in
Christ comes down as the
to his coming. He cries
There's the symbol, Lionopen and none can shut, right?
Chapter 10 of Revelation when
mighty angel there's a mystery
as when a lion roareth.
and tribe of Judah, right?
And he utters seven thunders, doesn't he? Seven
thunders uttered their voices, right?
DICK: David, what verse are we reading,
please? Let me follow along with you.
DAVID: Oh, okay. In Chapter 10 of
Revelation.
DICK: Chapter 2 of Revelation.
DAVID: Ten. Chapter 10.
DICK: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I
Q U 3.
misunderstood you. Chapter 10 of Revelation.
DAVID: Chapter 10, yeah. I'm trying to wake
up here.
DICK: All right. All right.
DAVID: Now we find out during the sixth --
now remember, the seventh seal is contained in Chapter
8. And in this seal, the seventh seal, the trumpets
are being administered, right?
DICK: In the seventh seal, yes.
DAVID: Okay. Now during the sixth trumpet,
what happens is, is that there's a, there's a picture
of a large company of warriors, okay?
DICK: All right.
DAVID: There's 200 million.
DICK: 200 million warriors.
DAVID: Right. So where it says right here
that -- okay, it tells us here that verses 13, and the
sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four
horns of the golden altar which is before God, saying
to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, loose the
four angels which are prepared which are bound in the
great river Euphrates. Now Euphrates was the river
that went under Babylon, right?
DICK: David, yes. But tell me where are you
reading from?
DAVID: I'm reading from Revelation 9 --
Q U .2
DICK: Okay.
DAVID: - l 3 .
DICK: Verse 13. Right. The sixth angel.
DAVID: Yes .
DICK: Sounded his trumpet.
DAVID: Exactly.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: Okay. So what happens is, is that
Euphrates was the river that ran underneath Babylon,
okay?
DICK: All right.
DAVID: Okay. And the four angels were
loosed, which were prepared for an hour, a day, a
month, and a year to slay the third part of men. Okay?
DICK: All right.
DAVID: And the number of the army of the
horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand --
DICK: Or 200 million.
DAVID: which is 200 million. Okay, now
right now, these four angels which are loosed are
liberated. They're really not bound. But what happens
is, is that in Chapter 7 of Revelation these four
angels were the same angels
DICK: Standing at four corners of the earth.
DAVID: Of the earth holding the four winds
of the earth, that the wind should not blow upon the
., I, 33
earth or the sea or tree or anything. And the angels
in the east, their commander says hurt not till we have
sealed the servants of our God on their forehead.
Now in Jeremiah 30 and 31 refers to the
whirlwind of the Lord, it goes forth with a fury. When
those four winds are let loose, right?
DICK: All right.
DAVID: It creates a whirlwind. A gigantic
whirlwind. That's when Isaiah 21 says as whirlwinds in
the south go through. Talks about the anger of the
Lord. Okay? In Isaiah 27 what happens is, is this is
the time referred to in prophecy called the filling of
the 144,000. I'll go over here real quick and, and
show you real quick here. It's in 27th Chapter of
Isaiah. I'm reading this, because that way --
DICK: 27th Chapter of Isaiah?
DAVID: Yeah.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: In the 26th Chapter, the first of the
people have God that been under attack. So then that
day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah; We
have a strong city; salvation will God appoint for
walls and bulwarks. The same as Zechariah, Chapter 1
and 2 that I read last night where God will be a wall
of fire and about Jerusalem. So it says open ye the
gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the
7
92O I 3.
truth may enter in. And only those who keep the seals.
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is
stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee. Trust ye
in the Lord for ever: in the Lord God is everlasting
strength.
For he bringeth down them that dwell on high.
That's you guys. The lofty city he bringeth, layeth it
low, layeth it low, even to the ground; he bringeth it
even to the dust. That's the fall of Babylon
The foot shall tread it down, even the feet
of the poor, and the steps of the needy. Now the way
of the just is uprightness: thou, most upright, which
is the Father who sits on the throne dost weigh the
paths of the just. That's the seven seals.
Yea, in the way of thy judgments, O
have we waited for thee. Because see we know
seals. The reason being is the desire of our
thy name. That's why the 144,000 in ChaptersLord,
the seven
souls to
14 has
the seal of living God which is the name of the Father
on their foreheads.
And to the remembrance of thee. with my soul
have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit
within me will I seek thee early. Because they learn
the truth when the Lamb comes as it is right now to
show them the truth that is written.
DICK: The Lamb, Lamb will show the truth.
Q 0 35
DAVID: Yeah. That's why I'm here. I
brought my reward to give to every man. I'm here to
teach these seals.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: Same as in Psalms 2. The heathen
raged. They imagine a vain thing. Kings of the earth,
rulers take counsel. Gather against the Lord and
against me saying let's break his bands asunder and
cast his cords from us. You all don't want these
seals. He that sits in the heavens, my Father, is
laughing at you right now. And the next step is the
Father fixing to, to speak to you, and you're going to
be in big trouble anyway.
So it says here when thy judgments are in the
earth --
DICK: David, David, let me - where, where
are you again now?
DAVID: We're here at Chapters 26 of Isaiah.
DICK: Okay.
DAVID: Verses 9.
DICK: Okay. Hold on for just a minute here.
Let me, let me catch up with you a little bit, 26, 9.
DAVID: Well, you remember, remember what we
already read, right?
DICK: Right. Okay. My soul yearns for you
in the night.
O U 3.
DAVID: Okay. This is takedown of what it
states about in that day, Chapter 26, verse 1. Shall
this song be sung land of Judah. Psalms 40 is the song
of the Lamb. He brings seven seals. A new song.
Psalms 40. Song of the Lamb. Same as Revelation,
Chapter 15. Song of Moses, Deuteronomy 32. And the
song of the Lamb. Okay.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: And that day shall this song be sung
land of Judah. we have a strong city; salvation will
God appoint for walls and bulwarks. Mean God's going
to save these people, right?
Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation
which keepeth the truth may enter in. What truth is it
they've got to keep? We got to find out, don't we?
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose
mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
Trust ye in the Lord, for in the Lord Jehovah is
everlasting strength. For he bringeth down them that
dwelleth on high, that's Babylon, the lofty city, he
layeth it low, he layeth it low, even to the ground; he
bringeth it even to the dust. The feet of the poor
shall tread it down, even the steps of the needy. Feet
of the needy, poor, steps of the needy.
The way of the just which is the path we walk
in is uprightness: thou, most upright, which is the
Q C 3,
Father who's got the book, dost weigh the path of the
just. He directs our steps, don't he?
Yea, in the way of thy judgments, O Lord,
have we waited for thee. There are seven seals you
understand. The reason why the desire of our soul is
to thy name. That's what I was saying. The 144,000 in
Chapter 7 of Revelation are sealed by the angel from
the east who has the seal of the living God which is a
scroll with seven seals. That's why in Chapter 14 the
144,000 stand on Mt. Zion with the seal of the living
God in their foreheads which is God's name.
To remembrance of thee. with my soul have I
desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within
me will I seek the early for when thy judgments are in
the earth, which is the fulfillment of these terrible
things such as the seals teach, the inhabitants of the
world will learn righteousness.
Now here's what Christ had to suffer so much
for and he let you guys have. Let favour be showed to
the wicked. That's what I'm trying to do right now to
you guys. Yet will he not learn righteousness. In the
land of uprightness if you all are allowed to be in
this kingdom that all the prophets talk about, okay,
will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty
of the Lord.
Now my Father sits in heaven, he sits on the
Q Q 3.
throne. He gave me a book. There's seven seals. If
you don't know these seals, you're not a part of my
kingdom. You have nothing to do with me.
But anyway, Lord, when thy hand is lifted up,
you know what's in God's hand, don't you? The book
with seven seals. He upholds his word above heaven.
They will not see. You guys aren't looking very good.
But you're going to see. And you're going to be
ashamed for your envy at the people, those who know
these things. Yes, the fire of thine enemies shall
devour them. It's going to backfire. what you all are
going to do is going to backfire on you.
Lord, thou wilt indiscernible! peace for us:
for thou hast also wrought all our works in us. O Lord
our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over
us, such as teachers and preachers and government
officials and stuff like that. But by thee only will
we make mention of thy name. Because they're going to
be dead. They're not going to live. They'll be
deceased. They will not rise. Therefore thou hast
visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory
to perish. That's what's fixing to happen to you guys,
you see?
DICK: That's a reference to the fourth seal.
DAVID: Now listen. What we're doing here is
we're fixing, we're going into the, into the third
l', I 39
seal. That's the thing we're talking about. This is
not the fourth seal.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: Let me show you.
DICK: Okay.
DAVID: Thou hast increased the nation, O
Lord. Just like Psalms 18 when I read to you guys.
You've got it there on record. After you're punished,
after God makes an example out of you, and after you
find out beyond question who I really am, then I'm
given a kingdom just like Daniel 7 and all the prophets
teach, Isaiah 2, Michael 4.
And then the rest of the nations are asked if
they want any of this, if they'd like to have a cup of
God's wrath. Of course, at that time they're going to
disarm. Hopefully they're going to come and learn of
God's ways and allow me to finish teaching them the
truth.
So this is where it says thou hast increased
the nation. Thou art glorified: thou hadst removed it
far unto all the ends of the earth. Lord, in trouble
have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when
thy chastening was upon them.
Like a woman with child, that draweth near
the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in
her pains; so have we been in thy sight, O Lord. We
i
1
92
i40
have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as
it were brought forth wind. Makes "raspberry"
You know what I mean? we have not wrought anynoise.!
deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants
of the world fallen.
Well, the way this happens is there's
to be a resurrection. Now let me explain about
angels. Thy dead men shall live, together with
body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye thatgoing
these
my dead
dwell
in the dust: for thy dew is the dew of herbs, and the
earth shall cast out the dead.
Come, my people, enter thou into thy
chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself
as it were for a little moment, until the indignation
be past. For the Lord cometh out of his place to
punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity.
And the earth shall also disclose her blood, and shall
no more cover her slain.
So in that day, the Lord with his sore and
great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the
piercing serpent, which is your leader. Even leviathan
that crooked serpent; he shall slay the dragon in the
sea. In that day sing ye unto her, A vineyard of red
wine.
I the Lord do keep it; I will water it every
morning: lest any hurt it, I will keep it night and
day.
give
with
with
Hold
kingdoms of thisDICK: David, as you're going along, can you
me some references so I can kind of follow along
you too?
DAVID: Okay.
DICK: I'm trying to, I'm trying to keep up
you but I'm, I'm having difficulty, you know --
DAVID: We're in verse 4 now, okay?
DICK: Verse 4 of --
DAVID: I'm taking the eucharist right now.
on a second.
[9aP]
DAVID: Okay. All right. 27, verse 4.
DICK: Isaiah 27, verse 4.
DAVID: 28, verse 4. I'm sorry.
DICK: 28, verse 4.
DAVID: Yeah. During the time that the
world are to be overthrown, Isaiah 14
refers the same as Isaiah 28 -- excuse me, 27, I'm
sorry. Fury is not in me. You got that verse there?
DICK: I've got Isaiah 28, 4.
DAVID: 27, 4.
DICK: Okay. we're going to 27, 4, all
right? 27, 4. I am not angry. If only there were
briefs and thorns confronting me. I would march
against them in battle. I would set them all on fire.O .1
CC Q .2
DAVID: Right. Okay. So you got the New
American Standard?
DICK: I do.
DAVID: Verse 5. Or let him take hold of my
strength. Right?
DICK: Right. Refuge, right.
DAVID: That he may make peace with me; and
he shall make what?
DICK: And let them make peace with me.
DAVID: In other words, what's God's
strength?
DICK: The ability to make peace.
DAVID: Nah. It's his word.
DICK: Well, through his word but to make
peace through his word.
DAVID: Seven, seven seals is the negotiation
here. If you reject the seven seals, you're rejecting
me. If you reject me, you're rejecting my father. And
then judgment cannot be diverted. You will be
punished. And your great nation, the United States of
America, the great land shadowing with wings that all
the prophets talk about. The lamblike beast of
Revelation 13 is going to be made an example of above
all nations. It's all going to come to end in 1 hour.
This is what Revelation 18 is talking about, the fall
of Babylon.
O Q .3
Now I know you don't understand these things,
and I know you think you're too big for this to happen.
DICK: No, I don't. I have Revelation 18
here.
DAVID: But the, but the day of judgment is
here at hand. Now watch. Well, he will cause them
that come of Jacob, right, to take root: Israel shall
blossom and bud, and fill the face of the world with
fruit. Israel shall be preserved out of this.
Now read verse 7 to me from your translation.
DICK: 28, 7?
DAVID: Yes.
DICK: Okay. 28, 7.
DAVID: Right.
DICK: And these also stagger from wine and
reel from beer, priests and prophets stagger from beer.
DAVID: No, no, no, no. Verse 7 of 27.
DICK: Verse 7 of 27.
DAVID: Right.
DICK: All right. Verse 7. Has the Lord
struck her as he struck down those who struck her. Has
she been killed as those were killed who killed her.
DAVID: Right. In other words, that's going
to be something in verse 8 what are you going to do
when this question is asked?
DICK: By warfare and exile you contend with
I Q 4.
her. With his fierce blast he drives her out as I on a
day the east wind blows.
DAVID: Oh, what a sorry translation. Okay.
NOW --
DICK: You don't want the - I mean this
translation's not --
DAVID: No, no, no. No, now wait a second.
Let's look here.
DICK: Okay.
DAVID: It says according to the King James,
verses 7, hath he smitten him, as he smote those that
smote him? Or is he slain according to the slaughter
of them that are slain by him? In measure, when it
shooteth forth, thou wilt debate with it: he stayeth
his rough wind in the day of the east wind.
Now remember that in the seal we've learned
that an angel is ascends from the east, correct? With
the seal of the living God, right?
DICK: Right.
DAVID: Telling the four ends - four angels
to hold the four winds that it would not blow upon
earth or sea, right?
DICK: Right.
DAVID: In other words, you know, hold the
winds, and let not the winds blow. Hurt not until
we've sealed the servants of our God on their
0 I .5
foreheads. That's why Isaiah states here that he
stayeth which means he holds in check his rough wind.
when those four winds are loosed, the whirlwind of the
Lord that all the prophets talk about, what all the
prophecies is let loose, and God's anger as in Jeremiah
says the fierce anger of the Lord shall not return
until he's performed the intents of his heart. In the
latter days you shall consider it.
It says behold, the whirlwind of the Lord
goeth forth with fury. A continuing whirlwind. For it
shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked. In
the latter days you shall consider it perfectly.
Now that's where the question is hath he
smitten him. Now God's allowing me to be smitten. And
I've been smitten by you.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: Okay. But am I going to be smitten
as God's going to smite those that smote me? No. Or
am I going to be slain according to the slaughter of
them that's going to be slain by me? No. Now it says
here everyone's going to get to see who wins in this
confrontation. Everybody in the world is going to get
to see who's going to come out of this smelling like a
rose and who's going to come out of this looking bad.
Now in measure thou wilt debate with it.
There's seven measures. There's sevens seals. Thou
0 I ..
wilt debate with it. We're supposed to debate with
this. And while we're debating, God's holding his
rough wind. The angels aren't letting those winds
loose yet.
If your eyes could be opened to the invisible
powers that are confronting this world right now, you
would understand that there are four angels, four
commanding angels, that are holding back legions and
legions of angels. And you know, angels are beings
just like people of the world. It's just they're not
as, they're not as, as embodied in, in such limited
beings. They're not of dirt in other words.
DICK: From the four corners of the earth.
DAVID: From the four corners of the earth.
Now this is so that the seal of the 144,000 can take
place. But it says here by this therefore shall the
iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this is all the fruit
to take away his sin; when he maketh all the stones of
the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in sunder,
groves and images which are idols shall not stand up.
Yet the defenced city shall be desolate, and
the habitation forsaken, and left as a wilderness:
there shall the calf feed, and there shall he lie down,
and consume the branches thereof. when the boughs
thereof are withered, they shall be broken off: women
come and set them on fire. You'll learn about those
O 0 .7
women too. For you are a people of no understanding.
That's what we're dealing with now. Therefore he that
made you will not have mercy on you, and he that formed
you will shew you no favor.
And it will come to pass in that day, that
the Lord shall beat off of the channel of the river
unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one
by one, O children of Israel. And it shall come to
pass on that day, that a great trumpet shall be blown,
that's the seventh trumpet. And they shall come which
were ready to perish in the land of Assyria and the
outcast land of Egypt and shall worship the Lord in the
holy mount at Jerusalem. Okay, this is where the
gathering comes.
DICK: That's seals four through seven.
DAVID: No. Let me go back now. You know,
under our circumstances it's kind of a frustrated study
here. And I know your man's swimming. But the point
we're doing right now is we know there's a strong city,
salvation God will appoint.
Now let me explain what happens when these
four angels let the winds loose, okay?
DICK: All right.
DAVID: Now we're going back to Chapter 9 of
Revelation to confirm this prophecy. Remember, all the
books of the Bible, all the prophecies, all the
O I .8
warnings and terrible exactions against mankind are
brought to focus and
that nations will be
when God finally has
the sons of men.
DICK:
to go.view in the Book of Revelation so
without excuse in the latter days
to bring these things to pass upon
So Revelation 9 is where we're going
DAVID: Revelation 9.
DICK: The
DAVID:
DICK:
from the sky to
DAVID:fifth angel sounded his trumpet --
Fifth angel.
- and I saw a star that had fallen
the earth.
No, we're talking about the sixth
angel now. Because we're --
DICK: The
DAVID: --
DICK: All
DAVID: G0
DICK: I'm
starting at 9, versesixth.
developing a point.
right.
ahead. Go ahead.
looking. I'm going down. We're
l3.
DAVID: Okay.
DICK: The sixth angel sounded his trumpet,
and I heard a voice coming from the horns of the golden
altar that is before God. It said to the sixth angel
who had the trumpet release the four angels who are
bound at the great river Euphrates. And the four
92
70 9 .9
angels who had been ready or kept ready for this very
hour and day and month and year --
DAVID
DICK:
mankind.
DAVID
DICK:
million.
DAVID
DICK:
thousand.
DAVID
DICK:
million.
DAVID
DICK:Month and year.
-- were released to kill a third of
Exactly.
The number of amount of troops was 200
Exactly.
Or a hundred thousand hundred
Hundred thousand thousand.
I - right. I heard their number, 200
Go ahead.
The horses riders I saw in my vision
looked like this. Their breastplates were fiery red,
dark blue, and yellow as sulphur. The heads of the
horses resembled the heads of lions. And out of their
mouths came fire, smoke and sulphur. A third of
mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke
and sulphur that came from their mouths.
DAVID: Umhum.
DICK: The power of the horses was in their
mouths and in their tails for their tails --
DAVID: Remember, these aren't real horses
O U .0
now, either. The prophet has to explain to you that
there's a little vehicle, a little machine here that
seems to be a horse as in the days of ancient Israel
like in the book of Nahum where it says they're in
chariots with flaming torches --
DICK: Right.
DAVID: -- that jostle in the broad ways and
they have the, have the noise of thunder.
DICK: The Bradleys.
DAVID: Well, it's well there's more --
it's more involved than just little Bradleys. But
yeah, it's the prophet's trying to explain that the
vehicular transport is quite different than what they
were accustomed to in their day.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: Okay. Go ahead.
DICK: The rest of mankind that were not
killed by these plagues still did not repent of the
work of their hands. They did not stop worshipping
demons and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and
wood.
DAVID: Exactly.
DICK: Idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
Nor did they repent of the --
End of tape 80.!
I I 1
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPE #81
3/7/93
3:16 P.M. - 4:03 P.M.
C Q 2
Tape 81!
DAVID: translation.
DICK: He was robed in a cloud with a rainbow
above his head. His face was like the sun. And his
legs were like fiery pillars.
DAVID: Uh-huh.
DICK: He was holding a little scroll which
lay open in his hand.
DAVID: Uh-huh.
DICK: He planted his right foot on the sea
and his left foot on the land.
DAVID: That's the Book of Revelation.
That's what we're dealing with right now. Go ahead.
DICK: And he gave a loud shout, like the
roar of a lion. when he shouted, the voices of the
seven thunders spoke.
DAVID: Uh-huh.
DICK: And when the seven thunders spoke, I
was about to write, but I heard a voice from heaven
say, seal up what the seven thunders have said and do
not write it down.
DAVID: Okay. Go ahead.
DICK: Then the angel I had seen standing on
the sea and on the land raised his right hand to
heaven, and he swore by him who lives forever and ever
O O 3
DAVID: That's the father.
DICK: Who created the heaven's and all that
is in them, the earth and all that is in it and the
sea, and all that is in it, and said, there will be no
more delay. But in the days --
DAVID: Time no, time no longer, in other
words.
DICK: But in the days when the seventh angel
is about to sound his trumpet, --
DAVID: Uh-huh .
DICK: The mystery of God will be
accomplished, just as he announced to his servants, the
Prophets.
DAVID: Exactly. Okay? Now, whatever the
Prophets have stated, remember, these events of
revelation are the previews of the events that are to
soon take place against this great nation known as
Babylon.
Now, remember, in Daniel 2, Babylon is a
cessation, a continuation of the empires that will rule
over Israel to the end of time when God will break the
yoke of all nations from off his people, that God may
set himself up a kingdom.
Now the nations are as such in Daniel 2. The head
of gold is Babylon, the arms of silver, which is part
of the same mind of man, the same spirit, is the Meso-
O O 4
Persians, Alexander, excuse me,
phonetic!, and then we'll come
Grecia, the belly of brass, and
the legs of iron, and then RomeFires and Derias
into the empire of
then Rome will come in,
will apparently fall,
but not so, it will evolve itself into ten toes
representing many nations, partly strong and partly
broken, known as Europe. In other words, Rome will
still rule through Europe because Daniel tells us there
will rise up a power that will get involved in a
religion known as Roman Catholicism, and it will rule
the world and it'll have preeminence in the world
until the time the ancient of days comes and judgments
given to the saints of the most high. That's why those
ambassadors are sent to Vatican right now all the time,
you see? You know, there's the greatest world,
political and social libraries of all empires contained
in the Vatican. Upon us is a great religious
figurehead, it has the smallest nation, a little horn,
the smallest nation in all the world but yet one of the
most prominent nations of the world.
Now, what we're looking at here is we know
whatever the seven thunders are, they must be found in
the testimony of the prophets. So as we said before,
as we open the first seal, the white horse, the bow,
the crown, it is brought to view in the 45th Psalm.
You know, you agree with me so far, right?
I I 5
DICK: I'm following you, yes.
DAVID: Okay, now, we've already been shown
that the truth of that 45th Psalm tells us who's going
to win this battle, who's the mightiest of them all,
and the reason it's giving is so that the definite
threat may be known that men might fear God, cause
Christ doesn't really want to hurt anybody. That's up
to them. If they want to go ahead and take a punch,
the prophets have given the details of the aftermath
of that.
Now, but the point is, is that the girl brought to
view in Psalm's 45, Hearken 0 daughter, and consider,
brings us to Revelation 19, where the marriage of the
lamb does come, and the wife does make herself ready,
and the invitation there is blessed is everyone that is
called to the marriage sufferer of the lamb. And that's
what we're trying to do, we're trying to invite people
to life eternal, to become one with the spirit of God.
The spirit of man and the spirit of woman should be
unity. Their minds should be as one, their hearts
should as one.
On the later days in the doctrine of God, God has
something on his mind. God's got seven seals. Christ
is one with the father. Christ, likewise, has seven
eyes, he knows what the seven seals are and all those
are unity with me and knowledge of the seven seals
of Reve
that su0 0 6
shall be a part of the marriage of the lamb, that event
lation 19, which clearly tells you that after
bject is brought to view in the 19th Chapter,
then John sees the heaven depart and the man on the
white h
make wa
N0
fulfill
suffici
privile
Isaiah
wicked,
care ab
his jud
No
has the
the eve
Zechari
the Jew
prophet
red hor
revealorse is there
r.and righteously this judge and
w, no one's going to get hurt until it is
ed that the probation of man has not been
ent in regards to God's allowing him to
ges which they again will reject. That
27 is all about. Let righteousness, --
you -- learnhave the
s what
show the
righteousness. They just don't
out God's magistrate, they just don't care about
iciary, his thrown and his word.
w, the second
great sword,
nts referring
ah Chapter 1,
s cause they
s. Zechariah
se -~seal, the man on the red horse who
if they should kill one another is
to Zechariah's testimony where
he explains that God's angry at
would not listen to the former
sees a vision, a man riding on the
DICK: In committing war and bloodshed.
DAVID: No, that's not what it says.
DICK: Okay
DAVID: The key note is that the events
that in the word of God, God is able to entail
0 0 7
the future, and because the testimony of Christ, which
is the spirit of prophecy, we see the warfare comes in
the fact that in the vision, Zechariah's shown four
horns and he questions the angel of the Lord, which is
on this red horse, what be these? And he says, these
are they which scattered Judah, Israel, and
Jerusalem,that there be nobody and no place, that they
can now lift up their head. Now, that was the four
horns of Babylon, Medopersia Phonetic!, Greece and
Rome. And the prophet says that they will come back
one day to Jerusalem as carpenters to build. In other
words, the Jews, having been scattered, by war, by
confrontation, by political power, which is people
killing one another, just as the seal tells us, they
will come back one day to build there.
Well, we know in Jerusalem today, on Mt. Zion,
there's a catholic tabernacle there. We know that all
religions of the world from all of these empires today,
known as Europe, all have places and churches in
Jerusalem.
God states clearly though, that when he gets ready
to take over Jerusalem, cause he's jealous for - the
great jealousy, it'll be manifested by a wall of fire
around the bout. When God is ready to set up his
kingdom there, there's not going to be a multitude of
religions and a multitude of professions, because
O I 8
that's just confusion. There's one God and there's one
book and there's one set of seals and there's one lamb,
then if there's not a unity in that, then only that and
that truth shall win and prevail.
Now, the third seal, we turn to the Book of
Revelation again, as in Chapter 10, the seven thunders,
which are uttered, whatever this sixth seal, sixth
trumpet is about this 200 million, which is definitely
more troops than you got out here, isn't it?
DICK: It certainly is.
DAVID: I think you're outnumbered my friend.
We find out there in the third seal, it says right
here, and there went out, this is Revelation 6 verses 4
DICK: Hold on for a second, David.
Revelation 6, verse 4.
DAVID: This horse, which was red, had power,
second seal, now, Chapter, verse, verse 5, when he had
opened the third seal, I heard a third beast say, come
and see. And behold lo a black horse. He that sat up
on him, had a pair of balances in his hand. And I
heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, a
measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of
barley for a penny. See thou hurt not the oil and the
wine. Okay, now ~-
DICK: which were very precious in that day.
O I 9
DAVID: No. That day is not that day. These
seals are to be revealed --
DICK: No, I understand.
DAVID: - in the end of the world.
DICK: But I understand. Oil and wine were,
are a very precious thing in --
DAVID: Oil and wine were basic --
DICK: - extreme.
DAVID: - every day commodities of Israel.
The olive trees flourished, everybody had it, just like
today everybody's got margarine and everybody's got
Crisco.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: You know? I mean, everybody's got
these things, you know, they were never scarce.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: Now, but remember, that, which must
be hereafter, revolves around seals that, when there's
time no longer, will be finished. So these events, the
prophecies, are projected to events in the last
movements that God makes in the world of unbelief
before He brings the greatest empire, the greatest
nation, to ruins. Just like the days of Egypt. God
didn't pick on the third world countries. God went to
pick on the greatest nation. God's a contender. You
know, there's only one nation in the world that's above
9 9 10
all nations. The United State's of America is No. 1,
Mr. Big Daddy-O. And that's why this is taking place
here today. You know, we need a challenge. We need a,
- that's not really a challenge, you know what I'm
saying? But at least let's let the world think it is.
Let's see if these big, smart pronosticators and
intelligent people, soothsayers and magicians and
astrologers and psychologists, let's see if they can
play the game, Name That Seal. Let's see who wins this
game.
Okay, now, as we found Psalm's 45 to give us light
on the first seal, as we found Zechariah's testimony to
give us light on the second seal, whether we have
discerned the entailed truth or not, we definitely see
the evidences of these prophets for telling on these
events, right?
DICK: Okay.
DAVID: So likewise, we must find the third,
fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh seals also contained
in the testament of the prophets.
Okay, now, the third seal, if you'll turn in your
Bible to the Book of Hosea, --
DICK: Okay, hold on for just a moment.
Okay, Hosea.
DAVID: Okay.
DICK: What chapter?
0 0 H
DAVID: We turn to Chapter 12.
DICK: I'm sorry. Hold on for a minute. You
have to bear with me. I've got a lot of material here.
DAVID: I'm doing everything in my power to
negotiate with my God and my kingdom of heaven to do
so. we're giving this nation every opportunity
possible for you to wise up to realize what you're
dealing with here.
DICK: Bear with me, bear with me.
DAVID: Okeydoke, it's right in front of
Joel.
DICK: Right. I'm looking here, just a
second.
DAVID: You don't have a King James Bible
there anywhere?
DICK: You know, I don't, David. I really
don't. Okay, I've got Hosea, Chapter --
DAVID: Chapter 12.
DICK: Chapter 12, verse?
DAVID: well, let's take a look at this
cause, like I say, each one of these books contain a
seal now.
DICK: Okay.
DAVID: Now, Ephraim, which was the ten
tribes after the split between Judaiah and the other
ten tribes, Ephraim began to become the political
9 9 1.
leader of the northern kingdom's of Israel. But now,
it says here Ephraim feedeth on wind, and followeth
after the east wind, he daily increaseth lies and
desolation and they do make a covenant with the
Assyrians, and oil is carried into Egypt.
Lord also hath a controversy with Judah, and will
punish Jacob according to his ways, according to his
doings will he recompense him.
He took his brother by the heel in the womb.
Remember the stories of Jacob and Esau? And by his
strength he had power with God. Remember how Jacob
pled with the angel of the Lord?
DICK: He struggled?
DAVID: Uh-huh. Remember that?
DICK: Uh-huh.
DAVID: Before the night he thought he was
going to be destroyed, and yet God delivered him from
the hands of Esau, right? Yeah, he had power over the
angel, he prevailed, he wept, and made supplication
unto him. He found him in Bethel. Means the House of
God, right?
DICK: All right.
DAVID: And there he spake with us. When
Indiscernible! came out of Egypt, that's where God
spoke to him. Even to the Lord God of hosts, the Lord
is his memorial. Which Jacob put a rock at Bethel and
9 U 1.
Jacob set up a rock there and says, you know, this is
the place where I've talked with God and this is God,
this is a rock.
Therefore turn thou unto thy God, keep mercy and
judgment and wait on thy God continually.
He is a merchant, the balances of deceit are in
his hand. Huh. He loveth to what?
DICK: Defraud.
DAVID: Oppress. Okay? Now, in what seal do
you know that something deals with Christ pertain to a
man on a black horse with a pair of balances in his
hand?
DICK: Third seal.
DAVID: Now, the key is that there are three
measures of barley for a penny and a measure of wheat.
Now, which of those two is a better deal? The wheat or
the barley?
DICK: The wheat.
DAVID: No, the barley. You get three scoops
of barley. You only get one scoop of wheat.
DICK: I'm sorry, right, I'm sorry. One
measure of wheat and three of barley.
DAVID: Okay, now, in the grain harvest, the
first ripe grains of the ceremonial law of Moses which
represented the harvest of man is the wave sheep. The
wave sheep were the first of the first fruits. They
9 1.
were the barley, okay? Now, we know that on the 18th
day of the first month, 2000 years ago, that when
Christ was resurrected, others were resurrected with
him, correct?
DICK: All right
DAVID: The multitude came out of the graves
and that they, for 40 days, according to ceremonial
law, gathered a 120 who were to be presented before the
Father on the day of Pentecost, which represented the
wheat or the two
the wave loaves,
DICK: The wave
DAVID:
there's three measures of
and I know you don't wantloaves of bread. Now, that was called
that's the first wheat harvest.
loaves, okay.
The wave loaves. Now, the reason why
barley, well, like I said,
an extensive study on all
these things, but here's the key right here. Now, it
says right here, he is a merchant, in other words,
we're doing some dealing here aren't we? Now, he
something you don't know,
balances of deceit are in
oppress. What causes the
knows more than you know,knows
and the thing of it is, the
his hand, he loveth to
oppression, do you think?
don't he?
DICK: He certainly does because he uses the
dishonest, you're talking about the merchant who
uses the dishonest scales?
DAVID: Exactly. And who is this? Who'sHQ
I Q 15
doing this? The Lord. Right? Therefore turning thou
into thy God, keep mercy and judgment and wait on thy
God continually, why? He's a what? A merchant. The
balances of the deceit are in his hand.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: And Ephraim said, yet I am become
rich. Ephraim thinks he has something, don't he?
DICK: Rich and wealthy he says.
DAVID: I have found me out substance, in all
my labours they shall find none iniquity in me that
were sin. But what does God say in verse 9?
DICK: I am the Lord, your God who brought
you out of Egypt.
DAVID: Go ahead.
DICK: I will make you live in tents again as
in the days of your appointed feast.
DAVID: which is the feast of tabernacles.
well, what's the deal then, in verse 10 then?
DICK: I spoke to the prophets, gave them
many visions and told parables through them.
DAVID: Uh-huh. Go ahead.
DICK: Verse ll.
DAVID: Yeah.
DICK: Is Gilead, we wicked if people are
worthless, do they sacrifice bulls, their altars will
be like piles of stones on a plowed field.
9 9 16
DAVID: God's going to destroy their form of
worship, isn't he?
DICK: Exactly.
DAVID: Okay, verse 12.
DICK: Jacob fled to the country of Eraham
Phonetic!. Israel served to get a wife, and to pay
for her he tended sheep.
DAVID: Okay.
DICK: The Lord used a prophet to bring
Israel up from Egypt, by a prophet he cared for him.
DAVID: Uhhuh .
DICK: But, Ephraim was bitterly provoked him
to anger.
DAVID: Go ahead.
DICK: His Lord will leave upon him the guilt
of his bloodshed and will repay him for his content.
DAVID: Okay, so, why do you think the Lord's
a merchant man for? Because who do you think the
barter is, what's the bargain here? Well, here's the
bargain, my friend, in the third seal, if you
understood everything pertaining to what the prophets
taught, you know, the knowledge of the prophets, the
knowledge of their truth, right? Is the ransom for
your soul. Your soul and everybody that sits in there
with you. Everyone in this nation. We're trying to
work a deal with you. We're trying to help you
0 Q N
understand the whole tenor of what the third seal is
right now.
Now,
let's see
work here. We
then said God,
DICK:
sort a battle by
their God.
DAVID:
Hosea Chapter 1,
DICK:
DAVID:
DICK:
DAVID:
DICK:
in this edition that I have.
DAVID:let's go over here to Chapter 1 of Hosea, and
if we can't do a little bit of, of background
see over here in Chapter 1, verses 9,
what? Call his name Lo-ammi, right?
All right, I'm at Chapter 1, verse 9,
horses, in horsemen, but by the Lord,
No, no, you're, we're looking at
verses 9.
Oh, I'm sorry, verse 9.
Okay.
Chapter 1.
Okay.
Verse 9 is as I just read it to you,
Hosea.
Uhhuh, Chapter 1, verse 9, then said
God, Call his name Lo-ammi.
DICK:
sorry, I'm, that's, I'm sorry,That's not in the translation - I'm
my apologize, I was
reading the wrong verse.
DAVID:
DICK:
for you are not my people, and
DAVID:Okay.
Then the Lord said, Call him Lo-ammi,
I am not your God.
Okay, verse 10.
" "' 18
DICK: Yet the Israelites will be like the
sand on the seashore which cannot be measured or
counted. In the place where it was said to them, you
are not my people, they will be called sons of the
living God. The people of Judah and the people of
Israel will be united, and they will appoint one leader
DAVID: Uhhuh.
DICK: And will come up out of the land --
DAVID: For great shall be the day of
Jezreel.
DICK: Right.
DAVID: Who, do you know who that leader is?
DICK: I believe I know who that leader is.
DAVID: Okay, well, let's find out over here
who that leader is. It says right over here, in
Chapters 3. Go ahead, read Chapter 3 to me. You'll
see who that leader is.
DICK: The Lord said to me, go, show your
love to your wife again though she is loved by another
and is an adulteress. Love her as the Lord loves the
Israelites.
DAVID: Okay.
DICK: Though they turn to other gods and
love the sacred raisin cakes.
DAVID: Go ahead.
9 U .9
DICK: So I brought her 15 skilled sheckles
of silver and about a homer and a, is that pronounced
levic phonetic!?
DAVID: Uh-huh .
DICK: Of barley. Then I told her, you are
to live with me many days. You must not be a
prostitute or be intimate with any man and I will live
with you.
DAVID: Okay.
DICK: For the Israelites will live many days
without king or prince, without sacrifice --
DAVID: Without a king, uhhuh.
DICK: or sacred stones without ephod or
idle. Afterward, the Israelites will return and seek
the Lord their God, and David their king. They will
come tempting to the Lord and to his blessings in the
last days, trembling to the Lord and to his blessings
in the last days.
DAVID: Okay, okay. So who is this David the
king they're going to be enlightened to in the latter
days? Throughout the realms of Babylon, MedaPersia,
Greece, Rome and Europe, Israel will not have a king.
They will not have a sacrifice, they will not have
indiscernible!, they will not have the images or the
implements of the sanctuary, not until who comes again?
Christ.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: Now, remember,
Book of Revelation, the same God
still the God of Israel. In the
been shown, is Paul made it very , 20
the seven seals of the
of the gentiles is
Romans ll, what we've
clear that God did not
cast away his people which he knew. For the redeemer
we find, according to Paul, says that all Israel will
be saved as it is written, and he quotes the prophecies
of Isaiah, that the redeemer shall again one day return
to Zion and shall turn away and - from Jacob and this
is the covenants that I will make with them when I
shall take away their sins. Because we're seen and
we're judging to see whether you gentiles, whether you
who claim to spiritual Israel are going to be any more
decent and any more respective to your messiah, but
when I'm trying to show you the seals and what the Jews
were 2,000 years ago. You've got to learn these seals.
Now, Hosea very clearly states that they're going
to seek the Lord their God in the latter days. Is that
true or is that false?
DICK: That is true.
DAVID: So would there not be a truth here
worth knowing pertaining to the latter days?
DICK: There would be.
DAVID: Okay, now, we go over here and we see
in Chapter 6, - cause remember, my students, I, I
9 0 2.
open up these whole books --
DICK: All right.
DAVID: to them. You know, they feel that
truth is, is worth enough time to spend sufficient time
and fully comprehending every measure of statement in
these books, comparing them with all the statements to
the other prophets, okay?
Now, we see in Chapter 6 of Hosea. What does it
say to us?
DICK: Israel is unrepentant.
DAVID: Well, go ahead. Chapter 6 of Hosea.
Verse 1.
DICK: Come, let us return to the Lord. He
has torn us to pieces but he will heal us. He has
injured us but he will bind up our wound.
DAVID: By scattering amongst the nation. Go
ahead.
DICK: After two days he will revive us. On
the third day he will restore us and we may live in his
presence.
Let us acknowledge the Lord. Let us press on to
acknowledge him as surely as the sun rises, he will
appear, he will come to us like the winter rains.
DAVID: Okay. So the angel who is sent from
the east are sent just like the sun arises, doesn't he?
And what's the great light that he has? He has the
' . 22
words of the seven seals. Go ahead.
DICK: Like the spring rains, the water, the
earth, Chapter, or Verse 4, what can I do for you? And
from what can I do for you, Judah? Your love is like
the morning mist, like the early dew that disappears.
DAVID: It doesn't last long, does it.
DICK: Just a short while. Therefore, I cut
you in pieces with my prophets. I killed you with the
words of my mouth. My judgments flash like lightning
upon you.
DAVID: Okay. For the covenant of the son of
man, it's suppose to be lighting from the eastern side
to the west, seven seals. What else can merciful God
in heaven do for you people? If you cannot believe in
the warnings and the forward nations of Gods testament,
if you cannot sit here and reason with us, and back
down and humble your hearts before God, everything
written by the mouth of the prophets will come upon you
in perfect order.
I'm afraid for you. You, you're saying, on the
one hand, that you, that you respect my religion, and
on the other hand, I'm playing a life and death riddle
with you, I'm trying to be a merchant with you, I'm
trying to deal with you in mercy as best to my ability,
and you say that my actions are contrary to your laws.
I agree, but remember, your actions, likewise, shall be
I "I 23
uncovered. Your deeds and your activities shall be
investigated to the very light of, of reason, and
everything that you and your nations ever done. I'm
willing to throw these records out, but you have to
first acknowledge God. Forget about me, I'm just a
middle man. Forget about me. I am nothing more than
what God has permitted me to be. But the seven seals
are definitely important things.
Now, verse 6, what did God desire?
DICK: Mercy, not sacrifice.
DAVID: Yes, and the knowledge of what?
DICK: Acknowledgment of God rather than
burnt offering.
DAVID: And how do we know God but by his
seven seals, when there's time no longer, right?
DICK: Right.
DAVID: Okay. Now, it's very important then,
I'm hoping you're being able to see. Very important.
Okay. Now he says here, over here, that in Chapter 7,
verses 15. What does that verse mean there to you?
DICK: Verse 15?
DAVID: Right.
DICK: Okay, hold on for a second. Train
them and strengthen them that they do not plot evil
against me. Educated and strengthen so they won't plot
9 O 2.
DAVID: The evil against God, right?
DICK: Exactly.
DAVID: So verse 16, what do they do then?
DICK: They do not turn to the most High.
They are like a faulty bow, their leaders will fall by
the sword because of their insolent words.
DAVID: Rage of their tongues, go ahead.
DICK: For this they will be ridiculed in the
land of Egypt.
DAVID: Okay.
DICK: They will be ridiculed by God.
DAVID: Okay. Because something to do with
their tongues, raging against someone, right?
DICK: Umhum.
DAVID: Okay, so we go over here, in verses
ll and 12, and what does your scripture say there?
DICK: Verses 11 or 12 or are we talking
about Chapter ll and 12?
DAVID: No, verses 11, 12, Chapter 8.
DICK: Okay. Though Ephraim built many
altars for sin offerings, these had become altars for
sinning.
DAVID: Okay.
DICK: Wrote for them the many things of my
law, but they regarded them as something alien. So
they didn't, they didn't follow the law --
P Q .5
DAVID: No, wait a minute. I have written to
them the great things of my law, --
DICK: Okay.
DAVID: -- but they were counted as a strange
thing.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: The last part of God's law is his
truth, the seven seals, of which you and your gentlemen
there and people of this country, are thinking are very
strange.
DICK: No, David, I don't believe that's
accurate.
DAVID: Oh, it is accurate.
DICK: We may, no, we may not understand them
all, but I don't think that we say they're strange.
DAVID: Look, let me say something.
DICK: Okay.
DAVID: In your, in your public reports, your
stating that I go into these very unique, strange
biblical babblings. Okay? Now, if there's a babbling
here it's you guys, it's not me. Just because you're
not subduing yourselves to have respect towards me, for
you have no knowledge of what respect I deserve, you
know, you think that these things, cause I have to --
I have to in very limited time project to you these
statements.
| " 26
Now, you know Hosea says something about the Lord
being a merchant man, right?
DICK: Right.
DAVID: Balances, right?
DICK: Balances, yes.
DAVID: Okay, now you also know very clearly
that in the third seal Christ is revealed in a work
that will pertain to a black horse and he will have a
pair of balances, right?
DICK: Right, to measure the wheat and the
barley.
DAVID: Okay, not to measure the wheat and
the barley, but what happens is, is that the offering
is three measures of wheat --
DICK: For a penny.
DAVID: And three, and a measure, excuse me,
three measures of barley for a penny and a measure of
wheat for a penny.
DICK: Right.
DAVID: Now, that's the thing that you don't
yet understand. But, do you understand the Book of
Hosea as of yet?
DICK: Well, David, I'm not going to say that
I understand the whole, the whole book. You know, I'm
understanding as you're telling me about the book. You
know, these things that you've learned, you know, it's
' U .7
taken you some time, you've learned this through a
period of time.
DAVID: No, it hasn't. I learned it in a
matter of five minutes, the whole book. You know,
you've got to be foolish. Here you sit, a man of this
generation, and you have telephone lines and access to
the greatest scholars of all the world. Men that are
in their 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's.
DICK: Okay.
DAVID: And you should be able to call them
up and inquire to them and say, hey, I've got a
situation, there's this young, 33 year old guy out here
in Waco, Texas, no place, nobody, and he's telling us
that the seals are found in the prophecies, can you
give me a quick run down on where the seals of
revelation meet their parallels in the prophetic
Indiscernible! so I can answer this guy so we can get
all these kids out? You would think thatd be so
simple, wouldn't you?
DICK: David, I'm trying to understand. I'm
trying to understand --
DAVID: Let me tell you what you should
understand. You should understand that God who says no
man will know, I don't care how many translators and
how many times people have read this Bible over and
over and over again. God, who has the power over the
" |! 2s
minds of men has kept from the eyes of man the
knowledge of the seals so that in judgement, thanks to
Christ who forgave you for not knowing what you're
doing, you'll not be judged by the law in latter days,
but be judged by the spirit of truth.
Now, there's one simple test.
DICK: Okay.
DAVID: That stands between you, heaven and
hell. You've got a decision to make. You want to go
to hell, stand next to the law and be measured by your
actions and faults everything that breaks the law you
should receive a just recompense or would you like a
free gift?
DICK: Of the seven seals?
DAVID: Would you like the righteousness of
Christ, everything Christ has received in heaven?
DICK: Certainly.
DAVID: Well, then, what you must do is
humble yourself, realize who you're dealing with and
simply play God's little game. It's a test of wisdom.
It's a test of honest childlike wisdom. Show me the
seven seals from the prophecies and I'm yours. Or, let
me show you and you are mine.
You can't get any fairer than that. God is being
very fair with this nation. God is being very sober
and very fair.
O
DICK: Okay.' 29
DAVID: Now you have access all over the
world to gather your scholars and your teachers, the
men of your high deportment, to show you these seals.
DICK: All right. My understanding is that
if we show the seven seals, that you and your followers
will, will then understand that we know what the seven
seals are and that we will prepare to answer to God.
DAVID: Well, yeah, then, like I say, if you
know the seven seals, then I'm wrong. Then, so, then I
don't have a God then, everybody knows it then, so,
man, I'll just come on out. I mean, the only reason
why I'm here is because my God tells me to wait.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: I have
sitting here rotting and
prison than have to live
DICK: Tell me
come out with, with your
DAVID:
this, when I was a child
days of my life, okay?
DICK:
DAVID:
Israel, --
DICK:no intention of, of, of
dying. I'd rather live in
here in this cold place.
again, David. When will you
folks?
You see, where I stand right now is
I had communications all the
Okay, okay.
In 1985, I was taken, when I was in
All right.
i9 O .0
DAVID: I was taken, in my perceptions of my
being, to a place where I was shown all things
pertaining to the seals. This is my work.
DICK: All right, in 1985, then, all right.
DAVID: Okay. From 1985, to the present
time, I am not a person who studies the Bible night and
day. You can ask anybody that knows me.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: What I'm saying is, is that if I am
wrong, then, the seven seals, which are a mystery of
God, the God already told the prophets, right?
DICK: Okay.
DAVID: Then the prophecies, hey, they're
scholars and teachers in the world who are 60, 70, 80,
90 years old who are great scholars and theologians of
the world, yes or no?
DICK: Certainly.
DAVID: Great learned men, men who know
several languages. You know, - language, arabic,
hebrew, right?
DICK: Certainly.
DAVID: Greek? Well, then, they should know
these things, shouldn't they?
DICK: I'm sure, I'm sure that there are
several that do.
DAVID: Well, like, get on the phone and get
' 9 .1
them and get, and let them show you where the seals are
at. Call me up and show me the references and I'm out
of here.
DICK: All right --
DAVID: Because I have no foundation then.
DICK: All right, let me ask you a question
in light of what you just said, David. Is not this
open to interpretation? In other words --
DAVID: No, no. Psalm's 45 clearly shows you
the king, the bow, his horse. You can't deny that.
You can't be stupid and deny that.
DICK: I'm certainly not denying anything you
say.
DAVID: You cannot deny that Zechariah says
right there, a man on a red horse.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: who do you think that man is? Come
off of it. You can't deny Hosea. He is a merchant
man, he has balances in his hand, come on. Revelation
says, point blank, he's got a pair of balances.
DICK: I understand. We're talking about
Hosea for the second seal then.
DAVID: The third seal.
DICK: I'm sorry, please, the third seal.
with the black horse, the rider with the balances.
DAVID: Exactly.
' . 32
DICK: All right. Hosea for the third seal.
DAVID: Does he have a pair, -- is the
Revelation of Christ, does it not say he has a pair of
balances?
DICK: Exactly what it says.
DAVID: Does Hosea say he is a merchant man,
he's got the balances in his hand?
DICK: He does, it does.
DAVID: Okay. I'm not stupid, are you stupid?
Maybe I am stupid.
DICK: Well, I don't think that I am stupid,
I __
DAVID: The prophet says, the prophet says
he'll be one way and the Revelation says he'll be that
same way.
DICK: All right. So my understanding is
then, David, we can show you where the seals are found,
the information concerning the seals is found, then you
will, and your folks, will come out.
DAVID: Exactly.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: Do you understand the reasons why I
would say that?
DICK: well, I understand you want us to
understand --
DAVID: Because if my God, if my God told me
9 C 33
that he'd give me the shadow of his hand, that's what
he told me. Right there in Isaiah, he told me that
audibly.
DICK: And God wants you to teach the seven
seals.
DAVID: He says he will, he will keep me as a
secret and a wonderment to many until I manifest myself
in the sacred scriptures by revealing the key notes of
the sacred scriptures to men, that men might know me by
the word of God instead of knowing me by miracle and
wonderment, right?
DICK: All right.
DAVID: Then
DICK: I'm sorry, go ahead, David. I didn't
mean to interrupt.
DAVID: Then my trust is in God. And so God
speaks to me, right?
DICK: Right.
DAVID: And he tells me to wait and I wait.
DICK: All right.
DAVID: But, if you show me these things,
then that means my God lied to me. So why should I
obey him?
DICK: David, what I would like to do then,
is to go ahead and work on that and I'm going to take
that to my bosses. Now, as a sign of good faith on
9 O 34
your part, and we talked about this earlier, you'll
send out some children while we go to work on the rest
of the seals.
DAVID: Absolutely not. You did not show me
the third seal, I showed it to you.
DICK: We worked together on it.
DAVID: No, we didn't. I didn't work at all.
I knew it all along and I know what it entails
completely. Now it's time for you to go and work and
get all of your wise men together and really search
this out. Now, if these men of religion, men of the
cloth, really believe in God and love and mercy, they
will seek into God for the knowledge of these things,
will they not?
DICK: That's --
DAVID: Let God reveal to them. God talks to
them. Don't God talk to them? They say God does.
Okay, it's time for them to get with God, just like in
the days of ancient Babylon when Nebuchadnezzar had a
dream, right. He asked the wise men and astrologers,
the religious men of his day to answer his dream?
Okay, let's see.
DICK: David, I'll take that, exactly what
you said, to my bosses. Now, I know what they're going
to tell me, because we've been, we've been talking back
and forth with one another for several days now.
O Q 35
They're going to tell me that you must show a sign of
good faith.
DAVID
DICK:
walked with you
DAVID:
it to you, now,
DICK:
DAVID
Put me in touch
DICK:I did. I gave you this simple test.
And, and I took the test and I, and I
through several books of the Bible.
You didn't show it to me. I showed
come on.
David, I'm not a biblical scholar --
Okay, well, find someone that is.
with someone that is.
We can do that. We'll work, we'll
work on that, but please, show us a sign of your good
faith.
DAVID: I did already. You've got several of
my children there. Now, work on it. Wait a second,
someone wants to say something to you.
WAYNE
DICK:
with?
WAYNE
DICK:
WAYNE
DICK:
WAYNE
DICK:
WAYNEHello?
Yes. who is it that I'm speaking
This is Wayne.
Wayne.
who am I speaking with?
Dick.
Hello, Dick.
How are you doing this afternoon?
All right, and you?
9 9 .6
DICK: Good. I'm glad to hear from you.
WAYNE: Why?
DICK: Well, I know that, that you're an
attorney in there and one of the concerns that folks in
there had is that when they come out, how will they be
treated, in what fashion will they be treated and what
are the procedures that will be followed, and I've
asked them to ask you to confirm some of the things
that I've told them. I hope they've come to you to do
that.
WAYNE: Well, we know, we know that you're
not following legal procedures. Everything you've done
is unconstitutional. You've thrown the constitution
out of the window. I mean, weak judges have
interpreted the constitution so that it doesn't mean
anything anymore. You know that and I know that.
DICK: David, we have followed the letter of
the law --
WAYNE: This is Wayne talking now.
DICK: I'm sorry, Wayne, please. I'm, I'm
just getting a little groggy here. We have followed
the law. We will continue to follow the law and you,
and you can explain to those folks inside what law must
be followed, and that is, as you suggested, the
constitution.
WAYNE: You don't serve a warrant by piling
9 0 .7
out of your vehicle with your guns blazing.
DICK: Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree
more.
WAYNE: I'm an eyewitness. It happened.
DICK: Absolutely, and you're an attorney.
WAYNE: Arrest those men. Investigate the
people that gave them orders to do that.
DICK: Okay, Wayne.
WAYNE: And then we'll start putting some
confidence in what you're telling us.
DICK: Tell the world what those men did. I
wasn't there.
WAYNE: Well, then give us, give us the
communication link to the world if you want us to tell
the, tell the world something.
DICK: You'll you'll have that communication
link then --
WAYNE: When?
DICK: We said that all along.
WAYNE: When?
DICK: As soon as you come out.
WAYNE: Give it to us now.
DICK: Wayne, listen.
WAYNE: We don't trust you.
DICK: Okay. I understand that. But listen,
we suggested yesterday, that we are agreeable to bring
' as
out people to witness your coming out so that you feel
comfortable with the arrangements that have been made.
And, and they're, they're folks of your, of your
picking and your choosing. We are agreeable to doing
that. I know that there are concerns in there that
your folks will not be well treated, and we can, we can
deal with those issues by bringing people here that
you're comfortable with to witness the whole thing.
WAYNE: I'm comfortable with the
constitution.
DICK: As are we.
WAYNE: Okay, how about starting with the
Bill of Rights first amendment, freedom of the press?
How about giving us a right to talk to the press?
DICK: We're going to give that to you in
detail. You're, you know how many people out here want
to speak to you folks, Wayne?
WAYNE: No, I'm not talking future, I'm
talking now. How about opening up a link between us
and the press?
DICK: Wayne, we've opened up, we've done a
number of things that you've asked us to do and we've,
we've offered a number of things to you that you've
asked for. However, we have not gotten any show of
good faith from you. We have gotten, not gotten any
positive response to anything we've done.
O Q 39
WAYNE: We could have wasted every ATF on
this, on these grounds. And that's what we did for
you. We let you come in and take the wounded off, we
didn't fire on them, --
DICK: I know that.
WAYNE: - and now you want to forget that.
You said we haven't done anything for you?
DICK: Wayne, I wasn't there, I'm talking
about --
WAYNE: I don't care if you weren't there.
You represent them. Have you ever
agency? You, you are their agents
them. You're not working for us.
attorney that's working for us out
DICK: Wayne, people areheard of
You're
You name
there.
going tothe law of
working for
me one
be standing
in line to represent you folks, you know that.
WAYNE: I'm not talking future, I'm talking
now. Why isn't there a federal lawsuit to, to make the
press have the right to talk to us now? Why isn't
there one filed right now?
DICK: I'm sure there might be at some future
point.
WAYNE: No, not future, right now. How come
when attorney's try to call up the FBI, you won't even
identify yourselves. Are you chicken or something?
DICK: Now, what are you responding to?
you guys?Q Q 40
WAYNE: How come no one can get service on
DICK: How do you mean that Wayne?
WAYNE: What I'm saying, the attorney's, they
call up the FBI, they say they have a lawsuit, they
want to file it, and then they ask for somebody to
stick their neck out and tell them who they are so they
can put it on the lawsuit and have it filed and you
guys hang
referring
that way.
in Dallas
call him?
trying toup on the telephone.
DICK: I don't know who it is you're
to. I have no knowledge --
WAYNE: I'm talking about all of you.
DICK: Let me tell you what my personal --
WAYNE: You call them.
DICK: My personal experience has not been
WAYNE: Okay, call Steve Brasher Phonetic!
DICK: What would Steve tell me if I were to
WAYNE: He'll tell you what attorney's been
file lawsuits on the FBI and the ATF.
DICK: Well, that's a, that's a subject of
which I know nothing. I'm not from Dallas
WAYNE: Well find out.
DICK: I'm not from Dallas, but --
0 0 41
WAYNE: Well find out.
DICK: Listen Wayne, we're not dealing with
that issue. We're dealing with this issue here and
now. Not what happened in the past, but what's
happening here and now at this time, in this place.
That's what we're dealing with and that's what we must
deal with to get, to get things moving. To get you
folks in a position where you can, where you can confer
with attorneys and where you can confer with the public
at large, and those kinds of people.
There have been many, many letters of support that
have been published in the newspaper, one I read to the
fellows out there today, indicating that many people
thought what ATF did was completely unlawful and
inexcusable.
WAYNE: Is congress investigating?
DICK: Congress, the article I -~ two days
ago there was an article in the newspaper indicating
there would be a congressional inquiry in this matter.
WAYNE: When are they gonna start it?
DICK: It's presently ongoing. We're
gathering all kinds of information.
WAYNE: We haven't heard anything in the
media about congress investigating the ATF.
DICK: It's being done. We're trying to
gather reports.
9 0 4.
WAYNE: It is not being done. Don't lie to
me, mister.
DICK: Wayne, listen, --
WAYNE: It is not being done.
DICK: What's the most important part of that
inquiry? The information coming ~-
WAYNE: That they get it started. That's the
most important part.
DICK: They need the information from you
folks inside there to do this in a reasonable manner.
They can't take the information from the ATF only.
They need the information from you folks inside. How
would they deal with inquiry without the information
from you folks within? It's impossible.
WAYNE: It's impossible to deal with, with
you, if you're not going to respect the constitution,
then we're not dealing with the government. You know
what we're dealing with? You know what you are?
DICK: I'm sure you're going to tell me.
WAYNE: You're un-American.
DICK: Really?
WAYNE: Really.
DICK: All right, you're certainly entitled
to your opinion. That, that's your opinion and,
please, you're welcome to it. And we can deal with
that issue too. You have the right to, to give us, and
Q Q 43
we demand that information. You think that we want to
see a reoccurrence of, of the events of Sunday?
Absolutely not. You're the folks that can tell your
story to the American public. You have a forum, you
need to use that forum. It's imperative that you use
the forum. It's your responsibility to use that forum
to see that nothing like this ever happens again.
WAYNE: You're telling me the whole legal
profession doesn't have one lawyer out there that has
the nerve to go down to the federal court and file a
lawsuit for us?
DICK: I can't answer that question for all
the lawyers, you know that. That's, that's a question
you know I can't ~-
WAYNE: But you nobody's done it.
DICK: Now, what control do I have over that?
I have absolutely no control over that as you well
know.
WAYNE: I don't believe you.
DICK: Wayne, you know what you just said
makes absolutely no sense. What, what remedy do you
suggest? What is your suggestion as to how to get this
past this point of impasse?
WAYNE: We're demanding that you give us our
constitutional access to the media.
DICK: You're going to have access to the
media.
WAYNE: Not going to, give it to us now
DICK: You will --
End of Tape #81!