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OSAGE INDIAN MURDERS
PART 14 OF 19
BUFILE NUTVIBER: 62-5333
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1._92-fact, did not have sufficient evidence to occoviet the :=ttorr.e;,'s S.
' F1-eeli , J._ I. Howard, and Hamilton, but we did have enough evidence to
bring out the conviction of J. ti. Sprinter», and, of course, it would not
V have b n advisable to ind iot Freeling, Yiovmrd said Hamilton. We agreed if
we indicted Springer that it would lead to e. motion by him of cont inuenoe of 1
' tire fie.-nsey ease imtil he red e heerirg on =.-.-hat he was indicted for there-
by -force us to trial with Bill H8216 alone and would thus materially woe}:-on our
. ' ease if we went to trial with Bill Hale without trying jointly John Romsey, so
we decided that it was best not to indict any of them. The G:-and Jury made e
report to the Court recommending that the investigation be continued as there
was developed before them considerable evidence es to the interference of the
witnesses and the reguler process of justice, and-..f_y_:g_t_1g,er reccmmended that the
United States Attorney file ocmtempt p1'ooeediI1g's_e.gs.inst Attorney Springer for
his part in the interfering of witnesses. 'i
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witnesses subpoenaed, from whom we obtained addivionelnforretion. :;rs. '7-Hrd4
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Oklehome City 10-l326 O-2 lOl3~26Ra-our MADE av:
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Murder'of
Osage Iniinc-I10If all -
Henry Roan
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and statements oteined.
Recommendation of Grind turf to Peder; Ju=§e "4A 1-, oi"
I/ Q5 Convening of Federal Grau& Jurv;;t CklahomaI I! ~ rw-P 2" . ' .,, -_ ~1 City,Cklehoma, Octoner 6th, l94o. _~ftEzsses questloeei -
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Hames and addressee of witnesses listeo.
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3*,O .- , _I°" * ittention is directed to report of Agent Smith at Oklahoma I *. .1y VCity, captioned as above, dated October l,_l§26, esgec;.i _
to witnesses listed therein, their teetimony ano iu develageu. h.ȤF
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1 ; hrit n Statement,
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V9-1'11; to visit-
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:8 QRamsey was there, she and her hueban,
her uncle and aunt, Hr. and Hrs. Yard,
the Hard home on that afternoon. That
onditidh'%hile at the ard'homst--Hrs.
states that during the month of January, 1925, subseguent
time she saw him at the pump station,
the Lard home, that she saw John Ramsey
several different occasions and rememb
on other occasions during the month of
vane. at haw §nm~s:4=.- She Qtntes: 1211,2117 rm
ing the month of January other than the
her place with Hrs. Ramsey, that John Ramsey had been there and
that both of these other times when he was at her house were sub -
sequent to January V, 1925.~
92
92_ r i 2
Gklahoma City, Oklahoma,
members that John Ramsey
station where her husband
airfar on January le
after Sunday, January 7,works at
20. On a
that on"Mrs. Harry-Corbett states that she§re-
F~' _ ~ L , 19 *
1925,
Corbett
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was at the pump
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Harry Corbett,
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he was in an 5
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January, lmé, John Ramsey
tro different occasions aur-
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PAUL IEREDITH
HaRRY RILEY
1 .-.ISee statemeht'of Harry Corbett with
t ference to this witness being at Pump
House, where Corbett lived, January lé,
1925 and taking a drink with John D
Ramsey from a jug.
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{IW ahith i_ _ i _ 1Q-13~26 _92 _ _ _l6.
ing the time that you were there did Springer have a ooné on
V sation with you in which he tried to get you to soy thati ?'
an automobile drove up to your house a short time before Henbyy
Roans body was found, and with Curly Johnson and Roy Bunch
in the ear and had the body of Henry Roan in the car?
Yes, sir. Q
Was that true or false, that they drove up there? f
It is absolutely false there was no ear thereat all. T
-Did you ever hear of such a thing grior to the time of his
suggesting it to you? »i._&&_,
Ho, sir.
State whet he
tify to that?
He just asked me
car was ug there", and I said "I know there was no
said "You know you saw that oar" and I said "I did not
oer"; Hell, we had quite e little argument about it= I
In that conversation, did he tell you that if you could remem'
her that that there would be $2,500.00 in it for you?
Something to that effect.
Did you, in that conversation, soy to him tout ii there MES
Twenty-five Thousand Dollurs, or any amount of money in it,
that you could not remember it? ,
I told him there 92 ' ' "said with reference toltrying to get you to tee-L
H? _ 1 ..I remembered it and he suid iou hue» that
t". he .
see that~. It '-~_- 4.-
Jo J. D .J_'92 H
was not enough ULHEY in the world to mane no
remember that as it was not true and that I did not want him
to tell me there was. - .
Did he tell you, in that oonvereation, thot Russ B. Reed and
his wife would testify to that?
He did n
Several oot. ,aye after that time you met him on the streets in
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. .101,/~92I met him he was telling me aout what John had acid him an heWk t i he say to gnu at thatEa listen, Jahn mclain baa " ha a conv&rs@tl@n wit '
him uni tol him.@hout this and him hat I wwul gm an ;
the stan an swear to what he had tal& me uawn there. 50 when
Bai " Hamn yen, if ynu tell that I will kill yap @n§ th&t ;
was w$2n he stuck.th@t gua tawaru m&, sr what I took to e 5
e3%+'v §Ana what iii yam say? » ;¢
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it if thay askei ma abnut
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abcut th;t he wmuld have a gun with h§m in >
Qg3& gnu wcgt an.the witness stuni ana testiiiea.
He gust sgid tnat.n@ wnula kill me an® I téek it that xgy.
Ané ainca that time xave yam ha a talk with him?
Yes, I talked him a littl%.
Where was tbs »
T111330 V
Bid he aake an agl ta you? _ V _Ho, ha Qi&nt mgxe ; apology and he woul¢nn ;¢@na lgs;gujh gm ggy muchi Ha sai& he xmulé sea ma lutar. @ ;;ve I
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RAY 1TH Attention is directed to stniement of
Oral tetement. this witness covered in report of igentéSmith, captioned es above, dated oetobe}» -v
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eklllm C1W,9R18-- 10-18-26 10-18-25> J. A-7 reet.8»
We Ev larder of 058,29 Indiana
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QYNOPBIS er FA¢1'5= Davie Hill , important wi tnees , int erv ieweri in
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Davis 3111, a waiter now employed at the Right way Cafe, Bartlesvzille, e:;;;;.:_;;=*'={-1
home, was interviewed by this Agent and the following statement 0bts.inBd;- ==-?;~TAILS:- _ - at Bertlesville, Oklehanepresence of T. A. 1-lubberd.
» .
REFEHElIGE:- Previous file in this case.
, -AP -" ~a¢.a-7*-" "
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"That I formerly lived in Fairfax, Okla», and was employee at the gilver
- ;men cafe, wDrl£ing,' tnere during the yeere oi 1921, 132; end. 1925; 1:-hat
while working at the Silver Moon Cafe in Fairfax giuring the winter -of
1922 and l923, I seaw John mmsey and Henry Bonn in the silver noon Cafe
on different occasions; that during the month of January,l9.?.5, I saw
John Ramsey in that cafe and waited on him on several occasions; tint
in the mnth Of January, 1925, Just prior to the finding of Henry Bean's
body, not remembering the day of
set at the counter side by side,
ahd had their meal, which ms in
and could hardly bold one c:1l.9 in
tention to his drinking so much eni told him thet he had bette§_c7i11;.;,i1i3---the week, John mmeey and Henry Been,
at the counter next to the coffee urn,
January, 1935, Ramsey being very nervous
leis hem; glut I eelled B,.enn.eey*g e_;_
out. It was my belief that mmsey was working for Iv. K. Ealees he"="}§.92
often oeme in with Hale's men and at times had his meals'tsl:e"§'?1o.ra.__'_.
IJi.l'All-8:
Witness;
T. A. Ii"-lbberd77 ' -1 _ day or so, than would pay them. - r -'_j_*-7érr.* A J. 92I r -r.
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Rpm C.--SEQGAINST *" 7 A A A. SOME 'N OSAGE.... _ . _ . K l J
mraxs To YOU AND M V 1 j '
EDI?! N BROWN. S YOUR 8' ?
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'Dire¢tcr. - Paga #2.
.- phoned to the pB3QB officials of the
: iP&WhHSK, where 5elph's wife lives.
likewise advised of 3e1ph's escape, I had an
making special effort to pick up a lead as to
abouts. Further, this office is making every
sate and apprehen delph and this waman, She
of aiding and assisting a Federal-prisoner to
re ort will be forwarded inrdEE£&
l¬ 1s renortad tna ,
sl ~ howeve
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tion of 3&1 . F
' are not invclved, ;~_tain that our dgents' * me to investigate tne :52oz vsuld not man.'5} _ .92structions from you.
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swTmnh$ V , LThe Leavenworth Penitentiary win
agent in Pawhuszn soday -
Du-1:360vastigative p_
For further infannation; I might add that there
certain rumors going about concerning Fisher's alleged Onjtt wh;1e¢a§¢' ' t he Selph, and others mud 8E@§;uQ 1
" &*ents 0
Very truly y
Special Aent 1 - N92
1.
*0wns particularly *
subje0ts possible wnarej
possible effort to 10*
latter likely is guilty ,
esmape. The usual in~
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has beén 1
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f mamar, tait no Lhare. _-_
*d@rub1e drinking. I am glad to say, .
onnectad therewith.afflca nave even
Er. white, while here this week attending the Osage '
trial, was apprised sf these rumors, ant made a p&TsGn&l
"B I have not gona into the matter further tkn
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yea mew 1 he:11=-we I can mama those kids. out ax the mate
92 n r Fthay cant :30 a dam thing-. be
their are 15c>r1-isrm anal I was givaa all ri;:b..t.a to mam. I am
_ .ga/Eng tr: talk; ta" Frselmg abcaa..se Ve1m:0rdi;ng to law they are rains
am; it. You sea ii 11 time them out. e . -
3- V-.~
oi the atata this cmlrtin this state wmxihi mm. haw ju.ri.s~;=i¢tiaVn :1.=92¢--Y
hanest. 1. sin B111: 111 bet SI
" mid Camera} what 2 ci
"1 cam help but believe aha~ " =l.. V - 92 V . 92 Ii; ;,_ V - ,;V' ' -_ '_ __ _" . _ < ' '92 *- H-,.V . »~ V -_~ - -5'" - ' .;§= . . Q .92~ ..;".:'. ....,.-" -, V . w * . ; -* t '1V.T_. ;V}§3~i-".;"*- 'a'°V-7*°?§"*m5 >bY°*-3'§¥.1.'- ;.§§v*=*; '?$' 1?*;==;§{*>:;i¥1:92_;"*b"'@;*~f_,i';~1?"??§- W V ."'» "~..<*7' +"=.; * J'-1 . . "2 -aw? V~» " -~ 4 ~ ~.. . 1 ' YJF-".:**>--it" ~# -_*¥~' 41" M: -.1 -p " ?> .~. . " 1.» .<~ s-fr ,.;;j._.V.- -.; .V . '~ . ;_~* .3 V... » :.~§=i?_ '.~;~ V -._ . an-.~.-V1" » -9 -VV.»->V:=:,.._~§v_35 _. ,9.» __~>+ #3 .»-in -mile» xiavezl at-e and mid gaod iay. *;'§§»~=£»-feel V$:>rry-"fi>r~he_r-M ' ' +he feels bejstn *cc:=-,=.1s;..:*c'aVs me smce I
id.
t 1 swam at Pawhua'm is gznng wa,
heat them $31; if yam win at, 81:13 G~ity':ii1am fias I _&w0Vrs gt _
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5113. be and dam} lama m air» W i%11:%E>¬~? $111 ri "
0:1 LL12": last. as I? hma ta lay araund ir. that ding; nl jail at
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=.=._ B1 ° W- 3- Emiths Rita _$=1i1=h» Nettie Brookahizpe and Anna Brown, nsv: in tn;2* ;__ hand! of the State
24-:1-Q9 jurisdiction in these cases. _
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_ 33a:-ole Réports twill lI!8f.'3&d,9"_an~;1 £9;-7%;-qeg
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WM. K. Bale
John Ramsay
VIOLATI 03?:-'
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File i; to/1.
aections 275, 275 and 552 Criminal Gods. ,
Section 2145 Revised Statutes.
Hone had. ,
That in Osage Cauqty, §§;ahoma, upon a certain L
restricted allotmetbof Rose Littlestar, a
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mum 1"-mum 0 maria In HR, ml: uni ion! inn»!;
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am WM .a£I<Sl Indltmnt Mtm a92 lly; Bqtaaho: '
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:::wsm% !;. ¢:n£ ém izis ta! sues aal S:-at 59 a:».,se.a@$mBanal at Lnazlpklaa, mputaat #1 mail j SI 1sh Livia, as-ma stun Mt-army, 0k.§.% t!, {tin sunmnt gnu ms. Mann: ah hawk: by 90$!!! llllif
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x_Y§! IU.I 3- K Hale 01; £1 ~ Craagq cmrc1<31-5 ¢ -- Y t 1 *§,;+'l-bQ§.ng a 1;,-mlbar of amid Gmr.-:1 Jury. dun" Pm. H _ 5 .-. - F "-{P-.».
at aurxaz2= _ §§%§i§§§E+
July 813%, 192a, an nap trial of :.t. Hale un& John Ramnq! @*Q! ghl"V Ql92"92ifl.I¥fi K.-;-,-Q-.. QQQ'¢_Q.Q-Ll "'_I ""' """'I " " *"I"""' 5" , I*92'3u§:as a wi mama for the cantons: and gave tcstimcny ncntliutlng
with we facts ac-ralopea before the Grand. Jul?» and Hhigh
m.re conclusively false, an follows:
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*1" 39.6. EEJSER, was thamupm called as 5 wnnou on inn:n nefanmnta, and wing rat duly sworn, taanltiud an flll:
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. ~ . *~,a'_,$-,;.~; ;§1=;s .1._ *. . :>m:c: sauna-.r10l.
, ' - - ";,~,j,,.£31 ER. 11.1'I.LZ0H! Yaur name is L-.6. Russet? __&ii| inf. -1mew 92'-0 yen live? 1 ,I live seven miles northeast of Stillwater; seven nil IOHGI6,west 0: Chance. " I
92 =er<= you 1- masher oi! also £2225 gm-3 arm Eu: aalleé L: %2:£=gen-Art and assembled during the month or Janna-..1';r at thinvia, sir. , ;:rv;-gii;Do you know Ilr. I-rank Smith, gwamment Bmplji, who sits Judi '~
over to your art: _ __ _*$iI met hia wring the investigation, yea, sir.1 =-.111 .~:-..'.ai: gnu no state wl.otr.er or not Er. Smith Ln your pI'I4i'_!>,
sense during the tin: you were hora as a 51-and Juror mule
Ituterrtent. th;.t John Rmaaey was is ham one to bandit Ind
tziegr cculc.n't. get u statgrmnt Q! gay l.n.i1.1.!':1.u.-£.9.': Ire.-.. K t;aaL;,' had. eondiroatod him with 1-2:-ant Burkh-art? . '
, - age-;gF*'IE... LUHP.1¬: Yin obguot to than It is not fixed in plazatima, no Iomadmaion 12.16. for the question an1;.>ia.<.hi£; qiiiiii. ~ fl
am. Ka.iJlL3.C-II: xu-. Pauling um: the question» 7
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IR. rm-11.126: rm guest-irsn Ian naked. 14 pxogat £e:;= -"»~*'~
' l~?'-5-<1.21' czaznrs Lot him mm;-.
I haunt: he rams some an-tuuant. I don't know that it Iul_,_Ll_Hm--rt azmst i'0'i.i er not, mat it i'if6i'i*i in iizai mitar um
I juv-71*! I 4 2. :,- Q"--92~,' ' BY mm. rmzxnroxl u 1: that in subatariuli Ina, sir, that In suhatancl. '
I-as that during the time that Salt}. was teatliylng £Q:92_I!;l1;.__,3Ll'
hem:-e the grand :ur;~' or 1:. the grand Jury roan when no tom&1?_.tee:.L.~;.".-1~.;{ ma haizag given? at .
1» - !v,_,1 .£1. IUEIIIKG: I object to tmt. they must my the flmndatlul§ and ti: aha ne ylaea hén inc inaction?: naked. of the witnuas. 21-my cs-.n't 503 H: u lot or uent evmenoo hare. -i-,g
.,_ ,£§j_ 3? 111:: wait: Lot his answtr. V i -1%
if"-92r " '1 c.0n't xwow hlthl 1 know what» formal and lnformhl
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$0Q;¢iJ5 his testimony in ad Lxlging with age gr¢nd guxora. 1
uux scum: Just £3155: 30% --cum uall Um; Omuxj, .dmL..ur
wnuld be feral or internal.
Aara yau greueni Ln the grana Jury room when a gurportan anato-?ant of John Ramsay was brnught no tho grand Jury ream?
815; 51]-'0
I will ask ynu be st¢te it tnat_suataaent Ia aianaé that wan
brau;ht an tho grun jury room, uigno by John Ran8a1 uhen you
first aaw it in uh: grand Jury room?
LAG first asatament we rogeivan was unsi5n0¢¢
;¢a that relatgng to ans H nry Roan weaah?
Taa, ¢1r.
Jld ;;u sec
£93. 31.-Ptn: ataaament and have it in y4ur hand?
aid, aha first ens.
;@¢¢Lnad it Quificiently to yzoa it J43 not a1gn0d¢ shat tint
of any was that when that was brought la?
I uilli don'% fmmbf the aznaz time ef day. Ki iiniid 1%
Just shortly utter adjuurnnt, sinner at noon or in the evening;
1 think Ln nae evening. _
*H. YT. QJWIS: Hg? I ask 211$ witness "nu ;uasn1on¢
g 2:
1 won't ;noa what it 18¢
Ina canfouaian, Exhibit J:
I ¢an't anew; I #ou;in'% Q -.
You a4n't hnnw ¢hatner it w4s thrio or rcur an yen?
IT. will in limi 3011013.; an written himezitu
How many Qf the atatemnl did yen ace nngt any?
Ehut laa¢ pencil -- I nnink snly one.
me 31366?
So, Ks stQtan0§¢ I ;un'i mow how many 3hu$8 it had Ln it.
J;ut New nanyf
It 1oulan't an any were than Q gu03a¢ I ¢un't axautly knew
.-A-1'1.I;{g
aa is the extent or yuur testimony, Just a ;usaI?
£0, it is not.
S!'ER. HAHILIOII I hand gnu this inatrulnnt whxnh has been ;
ldonaifiia an Exhibit J an¢_aal;;@u to Lait at that and ozamlnli
it =nd tell aha eou:1 xhnteriar not that is tn: Jtabment $08
saw unaignaé. aurora um gram Jury?
Yea, air, that is than statement»
*1t ne owcoptioa of th uignatnr apptnlé thnrnto waul gnu
aiy »;.t is in the name cuniibinn er Lgjriutlj she JQQQ
anaiuian it JQB Len yzu first auw it?
1 ,L1nk ;h¢u w1s exactly the sans 0¢n¢15i0n .1th .;¢ e;cBpSi0
¢f >11 ;1,n1;uro. a sure informed it rouli be zygawrinsan xnd
, ; la Quid ;1;n it, en Lt wxs girat ;:e ¢@uea ac 15»
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:.:;;v.u=v:2x* yea gut cut, at yaw pramahmg gran eta. 1% for yszamalf,
is an 1. it; '
Y:.:=1..l, principc-J13 , ya-.*, six. V
1:15; yen You an inalict tma mm Ramsey?
113.. FRI. 1.3112.-3: ta smiah am 0't1J&cL sa ineomgcment, irzvulavanit
and Aimaatarialp
L: f.1¬;.$RT: UTM.'IL£1Qil_¢
W9292 »-~ ailil; 1"§'ua.'l§.1.;iL+.' SXGQQ E103»
Yes, air, I vuta av inaiet lm.
xara yea lutilfité?
I was or I ¢l?§uiRl§ wou1&n'# hnva vetei that way.
Yam ware unnar aih were you?
r
Ya kl§ wnatavar yen haar an raatevcr was saia in there A
Iournt? ,Tia, sir '
than did fun first éiscleua that?
I diam; ¢1s@lli it, as anyaaa axcapting ta Ir. J0&'C¢!;nrii,
I aulke ta him she first at the wuak Ea mama by
Es w¢s aha grana Qurar I Qallta anwn in the grana 32:; roam-*~
E. E.~;2£.IL:£1H: ti: wwant to that an inemputans, Lrralwmt
immaterial,»
BY IE3 CQURI: Ask tbs Qu%a%1on an than an will hif thi
ahgecticn.
I31; uteri p1B §!9Il§ in tlna 5:-ma Jury ream wan I had oeeaaion tawill aam lam Eaaparitf %.L.%;§&m_
5 Ema. ~ $* **~~»-.,.»a»,-_Ii! ill-¬H2¢i&£-$.n5 with Lew lls:-, the puwnar at Halt, am
.9 - -NM him that Em: Qllar b<.=u.,<;1.»92- his thaws t1:.:.x: morn; mg. V "'+;;_;§_; §;..i_;w 1;? -§ &m*4$ rmall t-hat part of it. I ramembar arm; nailing
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_ .? §92_,, , ,Q _ ion: reaambar that gut at it. -'. '.- 2 '1': ' " -,».?3->3"-'~" .15? 35 3-» V. =?-_a. * ,¢.;1~?,mm:;xm: I ehjsct ta that an inanpwkaut, 5 1" 1"-¥*3°*'i~1* * "
Vi ccmm Z think it it Bhsllf 3.ma.tiri921¢ " _
Q. Haw an you htzggs -ta uncle :0 this to h&1n_'! _ ' A
M ms seam by ma we rem Salmg Mama he aa. be §a& 'E§§$i$'§¥
peanaw: man mire, and an am.n*t imam whuthar he ma e_1¢a.r~¢a
somi m.H»&ra or mt and hi QBHQ £3 an were i-tlklni
mzitors error;
Q; Ea mI@;1m;r~a; hem urban mu maxim: ta quash the irinmnt mi
heard <..1G.::t ha? _ -kn: I ton: Imam , _ ._ _
R5. HARILTQEF 5: nbjaet M that as inaomgotsns, ~i.r:*i1wmii_i-at
&@t»a:m1¢ Us mbpeemeé nu: hem an §§:a¥ §.s$e¢
' 1
A. 1 d.ont new whotimlr he appearasi mm: nab Mi. ' __ f'-1, §E?i1.aa hen nu-a ave-ryiay this ms: has bun an trial Min?! ~
R. Rs}.£1LTi}E: name: to that an i.m.ata*r£u.1,. "
BY IRE; CCUIQ: Ihu la inmatarlal.
I nwar nan his from aha aw um luft until M owe ta if §h¢n
Ina clad and this unslwoa ntatemntf
1», maker at ma §urymrn lwkc at 1!.
Iama than! ~-
I &ont kmav an I conic. mama than or nut _.gizgt mm to than Aw: by may at than?
in is mar: ta tho nit at than $1-mad. Jurors by my mo at ran?It mam Like w tin mm mm nut lot Lt ta mp, _;l6.l§h"§ N tIi! $l-ill: _R ill ! attmtiwm 13.4. ion an QM tui it ram!I Qua: bolus?! 1 all any ans: attmtian is kin mh'92f§5 'l*
in x mm: gxmnliurywnt m ma Ioniiaausil mt?
§,.a,i Gm rem mu: it that!
ma taut it uraart» mu?
1 v&:m't think an nilmaoua ms at thadi $1», mt, I12» '1
= gnu lial ! it l§ my H!!! - -*1 six. no are later gran n tgpmrlttm B69; which
.~ ' = Q , * an at the inf 1:16» you ft that typsnitton its_, _- I think it pzwapata ta um La um naming, §!92§f _§; t ha attain. 11 it was at najmmment 1:: tn; .
_ in first sonata:-mi it, it wum haw bean tin i - -_ in-3-axing "mun um ¥.yp¢"»vr!.$$l& n-moment was 3rls#ntN¢
. A ,"»;*#ij$i=,. A J; "-92
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= . .: "9 K-.;~§ .'~.§§Q.' §§' 2.'*.
X '1 =1 92
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£1 92 a
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LnIan that 11.9106 by Jhn Runny?
ca, air, it ni-
14 that purport ta» M his contusion. in that
on I1!__w.'nva.onr uonml Still-ntnr an yon?
In, umIioiyou know In Sp:-lager!
Q.
Eon long Inn you known hint "
Abuut 35 OIIIO21.1 1:: to you about your testimony in thin
0 1-th; ufyou mt to first as to what you were gain; i
nu» want§.ii6. i talk w aai iii sham inii I i 5;-em: éi
[Q *5.Bo yaunou to tollhinhonor may 91.1106 {maul
on war! in; to sewn; ti?
0, air, uni: and I-ll-ah .~ .5
Itoil this wart no you rst toll what you were going
S tit to? O8I =1-..= {::a%:'us%e& to 3* %e H.- P.-we 112:; $24: aemiagi
Who ant tor you? * *
Er. Dr , our at tho atrium cam anti. H01 at
poem and no about tn:-on twat: Innis:-la;
Ina mi you mlkod. an baron $110 lneumoc at that
Talked. to In-. Ouparll um 11:. 3-lll11§$0
Inna 11.4 you Salk to In landltoa?
Ir Baniltbn toll by Q pinch I N110?! 1% Ill
gm; ..__._@ Ls;-Q1 "H A
Ya, sir;
grant just? IanYea {'3Ila: Ill
E0 1:101
11111:; to
51:2: rim Ila. nun testify 56! uIt Mil! all nmi g $1 t-Q08!-£1 flu Eluni at ho In ta? so t all t-M tutu at$0 1wibl Q OI IQURI
cal int!-£14 I 3:03;! Ml
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1 didn't null .nan no time Ur unny d1¢n't even ¢¢k mi.
31¢ you tall anybeay bararo you saw Hr. Hamilton?~;';.-_.~~s:=-,1-v%_=' i'1;. -§==:;::1::~:_;.:'; '_-:.;:,:,*_ 1;-=-Lr-:, '-_: i .:, -,;-;_- §- * -_ .' r-n:'___ ._ ; : : -;,;:; ,:,:, -_. .;__:__-_ ;.-_.. ; '7 --K;-Q-=11
I balkad to Hr; Caaparia and an talked tbs testimony ovar-
Did you Irama what story ycu warn going-to tartar; to anon?
Ho, alr-
Jhat did you tell kin you would testify tn?
I callers I r0marke¢ I aoull ha?! no sitar la regura to tnosa
two eonfaaslona bexng presented to us, onl was arittun with a
Lana genail and use on a tygcwrltor»
How many confeaaiona of Jehn Ramaay Q15 yau sea?
Just. @300
;&§ iii tnay relaaa to?
L think the sans thing» Que wal a copy of the ozhur was it sot?
ILO Jay I unneraaand it.
Yen saw Just aha on! conraaalon that waa all, cne was Just a
cog]?
That is my un&6rataaA£ng. I never read Lb! typewrittan statu-
mentu E3 undnrauund is it was a copy or 18¢
Do you rameaber a atazement bezng rea ahat John Ramsay mad!
betora the grand Jury r@l~t1v0 to the blowing up or tha nith
hguan?
5T iii CL§R§3
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KBRLEOER: Zxoaption.ubjwct to aunt as not proper cross-axamini
it .ay be gr0limin¢ry so a naining else.i§10c
Cvar-
fun 3031217611 smear that! wan K typaxritnan oanflon read to
tna grand Jury do you?
1 ;1¢n'& awe : it #18 read so them. l @¢ld it ¢¢a grasente to
T-1131150
x :y;a:1t:en c0n£%a§iea?
I188 Q Qire
3i5ni¢ by John Ramsey?
Tea, air.
Ian read it am iron?
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How do Jan anew it was a noniuuaion? §;$_
I road Ixtxnota at it I think or lootaé at it ahllo qnhar '; if
were reading it. ""*"
Igg Agé QQQQ ig agg L ;nu§a@@;Qg use gnu?
ins, alr-
It JQQ djgewrittn?
523, .lr I um ;ure 1; x$a . "¢ufeaa10n¢ I
Jana 30 Iuqk to tni convera¢a1on yum .u& wlan axis - wyr,
Lkdilaon. g: Mid ma Q3 IO ;~u .nan he Iiran uJ}:w&8ABQ yen?
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looL 1 »1hlrI I Iupposa. I h@&n't law him for a number of arc;
aw ' "_ _ u.
*1;_ .,_.Ir. Eamilton uaaa tn lira in ¢ur country about twauty 2% xiago, in aux county, ant he G&m0 by'ny placl on his r ~"" %*
,1 Inn utting corn tor my hog! neur ins roah, nun £2 ltqgpAhud ingng ma in conversation, aske ma what 1 was doiag"-;1=@1a him. 1 asked him wh»; he Ia! &o1ng and he toli {
IPremumb&r he askc me if it wasn't NPBCI" and I told hll It
-was; he wunte; to know it I waa any one that Ian a manta: at
the grand Jury. I told him I Ih, uni he u$ko no it I Inll
60n9 uoan to Gubhril 1! I wga c¢lla. to taaaity in tbs saai,
uni I tul him 1 would certainly if I was properly notitii, 1
un I believe he hlg "we rcu1ant cxpact you to none units:
yam were subgocnwea." =--
hhmt aia he uak ygu to say he wunte you to testify to? ' j_Ha ¢1Qn't ask as whht he wuntnd me tn tensity ta. ' "
Didn't you £;ow he knew he could acme horn and gut aarv1o¢ ti Ag
any time an¢ compel yuu to some nown hart? »*u?
1 Bupg no could. '
Did yvu uhink it I&B unusual for him tn iriwa My in that I92f7'f* ell, yes, I tLou_Lt it was a 11a>1e unusual. ;*Q
A fan days hafara this case I18 sat for trial? "
I didn't know hen it was act uni: aha: tbs newspaper! nail. .
Did he tell you ho hue: yen.h@& baen talking ta asparil?
Io, sir, he ¢idn't¢ I beliavl I told him Br. Gasparil Bil ik
come by. I think 1 aid Ln thu oaurse of our coaveraatina. "'*
31¢ yuu tell him what you tolé Cuaparil?
K00
an.-..z cm.-. you um: about?
hell, he wan not there more than -* I awn: suppose morn thnl _;
tan adnutes Qua I was busy most or aha tim outzing corn fur "
:1 hug, an¢'@e talkea while I workla; very little uonvuraa
tion p;s3B¢ betwcan uh. R
Eca dig you buppn to mention an» fact that iasparil had iii:
by to see yen?
Igor: a5 one other garty pruaont during cur eontcrsatian»
lweazion read!. ;gwI011, be»-:.usu of 1.15 mantlouingg tha taut that ht I'll ENner, one of tha attorney: for E¢le. ~/%§§§;5&0 mantionua that? ; »@
In-. Hamilton. 1 m.t:;er ma am» mircc Igp with nu. Jammu I
knew a Chriatian prncpur who u~& an atberney at P~I¢1l K5 1
1:.-:e.; he ma uoanec. jd with the mu;-0 but I rmmar nu nuBbnrunaa with Johnson of Fairfax. i haln't not him for I ;»*
Ipnaer cf yvéra. __§%.£he yuu believe in aatha? >;§;§§[;5:.,,
_ ,§ t 3-w- Q5:>:7lx___: _?£._!,,_, R , W ;;;_;.;;;__,,£ H '; ;;,..,;;_;; .,.,P;: :;__;;,.-uunnn-an~@~cnu|na»¢un~4->_az--e»-"-~:e.:1o-c":-~---. '*i"11=-' =1. A111 *-I wu-
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22..;a3*sv1&antLy knew: that ruin.
nr rm canine % acitian unwind.
In ¢1u*$ 019104: $0 nu uh; you annlionw £0 W1. Enniltumat #2I92u{.92ru hm inn 3' so an yet?1 $l! 3-JG wk _ -Jun! &nll mi @511!» '
Khan ha maut1onu& sh: fact that hi was an atterncg in tn: aaxc
oi Bali and Ramneg, why, I riarkt to bin that Hr. Qaaparll
hem onus hr; ma amur my, ma 1 than hi" at mm anumml, :20-
$58!! Z had news: ma! us. gaaparis after vs hi ~$&u:ga& hurt
tram ~.m grand; 30:; rum umil he uP..1Q by my haul» 1. »:.n¢u.~;;ht
it rather unusual he would am! by but vary 53.14 2.9 an ma.»
rs an Ina?
x Qaagaxia warn L0 Cl&O0 1
when was he at you ammo?
I z>&1£'% n was Nlf Wining. »~hat £14 by six to yvu?
Ru am 1 xx an: than prwaaaingl in mgard to the &nvcs!i1*
gaiioa at ha Qzaga nasal zhan we haard dY£n§ nut mamberhlp
11 Jnrurs¢
10: far $08! nu lav: from wnerw you liva?
~Qll, I taint it it aaut &Iiaty~fL?n mills.
..,n¥-L no umlr tar gut we hm: I. ialaxl GQ:1'IQ!I:a1LiQl1 nith yam?
HQ nortavmly Q14. 1 ans: hack an him bararw from that mgr
until, mam
' §_ tszrmss s;§i-zrsm k
.;.gan$ Fa mlm ma tamer ..g'$:i¥ $1.3. --man, an mu night rs!
Jammsf M-h, 193:8, cbtainw rm -Hahn Rzaaay an .:2;*;;na¢;i n@n.§-»
aunt, wit-niuué by .-Zéwm Bram, ipnnial ..aai.:i-ant ta the 11,5.
Miami; Qnnurval, iluiliug till amnr at Ema-'3 Rm-ul and. his
gmrtialpatlan tannin ,
0: mu tullewrlnf lhni1*n!n§; Iimmry ran; 1§2&, Agent F;-3.ma toms: Agln 1.1. shin name: I» mlg lhtvmanl nit-*6;noun-A rz Agata Jar. rm:-yap, s-J. lain: am x-an an anauger, Aamamg am marks: u =:.R- maxi! sum, 111-I will
um arrmp g;1.rJ.,, mt Mn prtirttimi $b.OlO1la '
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Qi. ~1¥o11 you where you nne the niuzakn: Yesterny on oro§;:?@T&','lM Laotian I shoved you the amitn utotomant, sna you s;§:£E§¢@@ 1:137 or P. c.:n::nm. j?§g§*92 ' - _ ~14 _-1' QK *%:' r<%%f#E:-u »; ¢:'.; ' A-r» 21 :1 '
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nit. Honour, I unoeratnn you want to talk to no about thIi' "
nutter of your having testitieo before the court the otnor
ony relative to the oonrossion or John.Ramoo11
Yes sir, I expressed a oasira to talk to you an Diatriot Lt-
toruoy.
thnt din you have in mind, pleoao air?
tell, I Just wont to show you that I none no intentional mis-
tuxe whatever; it I nude u mistake I 41¢ it unintentionally;
I was reoiy to do anything I ooul that coul be poaoibli
to oooiat the government in any rny 1 coulo, or you as their
repreacntutivoYou have boon uovisc that Hr. Donnloaon was again on tbs
atunn today an; nude a correction?
I roan that in the neonpapar, unn I think you montionnd Lt
to no, one also hoard a oorrcaponoent talk with him about it.
He die go buck on the stuno nno stats taut he was unéoubtolj
IPOD5 ani his Btnteuents as moo: yeotoray were not lo. R0
woo honestly mistaken but he was nnooubtoaly wrong; that is
what he testified?
Thht in that I undtratnno by the paper.
I on't believe thnt Hr. Donnloson oio intena to bo untruth-
fol, and he 11¢ unLj any goo nun soulo co, Just coma in and
admit that he was wrong.
YBBQ
Hon, hon no you feel about your matter?Yell, the Faturdny when I ease town hero I was yoing to lg
plnoo to preach, nno 1 was very anxious to get urn, and
moo the statoaent believing it to be honest nan truthtul
an thinking tnnt I was tolling Just exactly an it ocourro,
and I ntill continue to think lo, and ix. Lunring, when he
questionea no yenterny, he showed no that there were nra
than one load poncil oonrosaion, union showed no the pea-
sioility of my being mistaken; up until than I only hn ro-
monuronco or tukt pencil confession. 1 an sure I don't want
to co nothing wrong in any way; I wnntea to no the best nn
ri¢Lt thin¢ to oo-
1;
hit was aigned nna roan to you; that the witness Smith_ iv
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been taken from John Ramsey, and thorefora it is an Qlf %Wf
,,*n&tter to chow to the Juryi *§Walk1ng about.
if >u~= business an; so many things happening, of couroo I cnnL!imf§;,
-* paaily be mistnkan; but I 5L8 anonring pooitivo bccausl;$»§iA».
Mi ".5 g 3
.h ..;
mhcr you don't know that IG§".;;%
£."§I realize ho. it had boon uevcn month: and such u volume. §§'
< thought a positive question demunoed n poaitivu answer. o~
Q. I toll you ognt I am more concerned in than anything also
Ln the reason that pronptaa you to do it; tho non that tall»
ea to you before you aware, the men to whoa you first toll
the story; you dkd anon know uLLt you nere going to teatiiy
to ouiore the grunt Jury, Thai in the important thing.
A. 1 woula alst be glua to answer any quention you ask Ila
Q. But you o1an=i answer iheo
asking you thorn. You aaiavery fairly to us than we tori
tho lawyer ammo out to one yo
oni mus not talking about this cuao at all. oxa this lanyor
tglk to you about your tebtlmony. nr. Hamilton?
A. 30 air, he 61¢ not ask me about the teotimoay any turthnr
than asking me if I boa tolkoo to Hr. Kocparea; he ai not
us}: mu Ln rugm-G. to my testimony, no sir.
Q. zxa you get the inpressio or nnderatan¢£ng that he had aeni
*ucpures out there to ace you?
A. ell, 1 harily ihouyht tha%, no air. It was %ho first oiio
I had over met the nun and really took no by surprise, and
1 didn't moat to be a witness, :40 I Just appeurcd to anawor
him any ELY to get rid of him.
Q0 The first you honr of Ln uuo-gned atutoment of John Romany!
you hepru from Huopurun, ho Lnformo you OI Li. LBt'l bi
honest with each other.
A. iell, he gqa I tulke it together.
W, e mnt.onoo the subject to you first, ¢1¢nt ha?
.. H. oogs, now, you know there was an unnigna oonfession at
John Romney L180 before tn. grun Juzy, didn't ha?
L. "B11, I wouldn't - from his Iorda ~ I Just talko with
him a little hhila, and he
the reason I tnou¢nt there
has one unsigned.
Q. Ho di¢n't toae any port in
you iii, ¢i¢ h?
L. I P819330? he took a ratuer
Pitnasoea, ¬puCiLll§ this
oiomo questions.an I axon: entirely ogre: tor
was one eignci an ha ii thorn
tho grand Jury proceeding ilk!
cunnyicaouo gort with Ga: or $19
mun Leno; Lolph; he asked him
H}! ail. $1.6 hlik Q'92l¬t£QnB?
lo XQIF I 'L.".LI1't£ ht: L£.3ItH.. hi-1'3 L few. umQ. ~Ihst x. true; ; u.ont know . @.ner he hh sat by a }urai.§§?}L. Ttll, 1 348% Tcnambr it; my memory might be at fault. . ~;§§§
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