DIGITALLY RECORDED

1 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL JUNE 14, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00058522 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00058523 3 1 : The recording is on. 2 Today is Monday, June 14, 2021. The time is 3 3:14 p.m. This is 4 with the DOJ OIG. 5 My name is , I'm 6 a Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 7 Justice Office of the Inspector General New 8 York Field Office. And these are my 9 credentials. The interview is with Federal 10 Bureau of Prisons correctional officer 11 . Did I say that 12 right? 13 -: 14 -: . Sorry. 15 16 : Mm-hmm. 17 : And it is being conducted as 18 part of an official U.S. Department of Justice 19 Office of the Inspector General investigation. 20 Today is June 14, 2021 and the time is again 21 : 3:15. 22 : 3:15 p.m. The interview is 23 being conducted at FCI Danbury in the training 24 center. Also present are DOJ OIG Senior 25 Special Agent EFTA00058524 4 1 • . And these 2 are my credentials. 3 : And 4 . This interview will be recorded by me, 5 Special Agent . Could everyone 6 please identify themselves for the record and 7 spell your last name. To start again, I am DOJ 8 OIG Special Agent -. 9 : Senior Special Agent 10 11 -• 12 : This is an official DOJ OIG 13 investigation into the death of Inmate Jeffrey 14 Epstein and the timing - everything that 15 surrounds that time. And you're being asked to 16 voluntarily provide answers to our questions. 17 Will you agree to a voluntary interview with 18 the DOJ OIG? 19 : Yes. 20 : Okay. Please review DOJ OIG 21 Form 226-2. I'm going to read the form out to 22 you and then we'll go through it. The form 23 states: United States Department of Justice 24 Office of the Inspector General. Warnings and 25 Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide EFTA00058525 5 1 Information on a Voluntary Basis. You are 2 being asked to provide information as part of 3 an investigation being conducted by the Office 4 of the Inspector General. This investigation 5 is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector 6 General Act of 1978 as amended. This 7 investigation pertains to job performance 8 failure and security failure. This is a 9 voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not 10 have to answer any questions. No disciplinary 11 action will be taken against you if you choose 12 not to answer questions. Any statement you 13 furnish may be used as evidence in any future 14 criminal proceeding or agency disciplinary 15 proceedings or both. Now this is the statement 16 for you directly. I understand the Warnings 17 and Assurances stated above and I am willing to 18 make a statement and answer questions. No 19 promises or threats have been made to me and no 20 pressure or coercion of any kind has been used 21 against me. Do you understand that? 22 : Yes. 23 : Do you agree to move forward 24 with the interview? 25 : Yes. EFTA00058526 6 1 2 3 4 : Please review the document and sign where it says employee. : Yeah. You're going to sign right where it says employee signature. 5 : And print your name below 6 that. 7 : My full name? 8 : Yes, please. 9 has signed the document. I am also going to 10 sign the document. 11 : Thank you. 12 : Yeah. 13 : What time is it 3:20 now? 14 : 3:18. 15 : I'm passing the document to 16 agent -. I keep avoiding saying your 17 last name. 18 : It's alright. It's 19 and I'll be signing the 20 document as the witness. 21 : Okay. Before starting the 22 interview, I would like to place you under 23 oath. , can you please raise your 24 right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and 25 nothing but the truth during this interview? EFTA00058527 7 1 : Yes. 2 : Please let me know if you do 3 not understand any questions and I will repeat 4 it or try to rephrase it for you. What is your 5 current home address? 6 -: 7 : Can you spell that? 8 : Yep. 9 10 : What is your date of birth? 11 -. . . 12 : Your Social Security Number? 13 • • 14 What's your cell phone 15 number? 16 • • 17 What is your highest level of 18 education? 19 Bachelor's degree. 20 : Which college? 21 • 22 23 : And what was the bachelor's 24 degree in? 25 : In? EFTA00058528 8 1 : Yeah. What did you -? 2 : Forensic psychology and 3 counseling. 4 : You said forensic psychology. 5 : Forensic psychology and 6 counseling. 7 : Okay. 8 : And what year did you 9 graduate? 10 -: 11 : And that's in New York 12 City. Correct? 13 : Yes. 14 : Okay. What did you do prior 15 to working for the BOP? 16 : I was a New York City 17 probation officer. 18 : For how long? 19 : Three years. 20 : Did you have any military 21 service? 22 : No. 23 : How long have you served with 24 the Federal Bureau of Prisons? 25 : A little over ten years. Ten EFTA00058529 9 1 years and five months. 2 : Do you recall your Entry and 3 Duty Date? 4 : Mm-hmm. 5 : And prior to that you said 6 you were with the New York City -- 7 : Probation office. 8 : -- Probation Office. And 9 that was for how many years? Three years? 10 : Yes. 11 : What did you do prior to 12 that? 13 : New York state corrections 14 officer. 15 : New York State. How long did 16 you do that for? 17 : About seven or eight months. 18 : And prior to that. 19 : I was a full-time student at 20 John Jay College. 21 : The short period with New 22 York state. Did you resign from the position 23 or -? 24 : Yeah. I resigned to go to 25 probation. EFTA00058530 10 1 : Okay. When did you graduate 2 from BOP training? 3 • • 4 : When and where was your first 5 office assignment with the BOP? 6 -: 7 : Okay. And what year was 8 that? 9 when I started. 10 : What was your position? 11 : Correctional officer. 12 : Did you stay there or did you 13 move on as a correctional officer? 14 : I was there from 15 . That's why I 16 transferred to MCC New York. 17 was my first day at MCC New York. 18 : Did you transfer as a -? 19 : Lateral transfer. 20 : Lateral transfer. So, you 21 were still a correctional officer. 22 : Yes. 23 : Okay. 24 : Did you -? How does it 25 work in Allenwood? Are you assigned to one of EFTA00058531 11 1 the facilities or were you --? 2 : Yeah. 3 : -- rotated throughout? 4 : So, they - 95% of the time I 5 was at the Medium. But when we were short - 6 staffed, then I would go to the Pen on the low. 7 But they tried their best to keep you at one 8 institution. But you were hired for the entire 9 complex, so you could bounce around. 10 : Okay. 11 : When did you get promoted? 12 was the day I 13 got selected for lieutenant. But I started 14 here 15 : Okay. Did you hold any other 16 positions between correctional officer and 17 lieutenant? 18 : Correction officer was entry 19 level. Then automatic senior officer. Then I 20 was promoted to Senior Officer Specialist, 21 which is up under a GS-11 - I'm sorry, a GS-9 22 lieutenant. And then I'm now promoted to 23 lieutenant. So, the promotions were the senior 24 office specialist and the lieutenant. 25 : When did you get promoted as EFTA00058532 12 1 2 3 4 Senior Officer Specialists? -: -. No, I'm sorry. . I can't really remember which year. 5 : But Senior Officer 6 Specialist that is a lieutenant position? 7 : No. 8 : Oh. It's just the same 9 grade. 10 : No. Senior Officer 11 Specialist is an 8. 12 : Oh. And lieutenant is a 13 9. 14 : Lieutenant is a 9 and 11. 15 : I got you. I'm sorry. 16 : I just can't remember what 17 year I got promoted. I can't remember if it 18 was 19 : That's fine. 20 : On August 9 and 10 of 2019, 21 what was your position? 22 : Senior Officer Specialist. 23 : What shift did you work? Do 24 you recall? On August 9th and 10th. 25 : I don't remember what shift. EFTA00058533 13 1 2 3 you with it. : : Okay. I'm going to provide Okay. 4 : I'm going to provide you with 5 two documents. 6 : Okay. 7 : It states MCC New York Daily 8 Assignment Roster. 9 : Yep. 10 : One is for August 9th and one 11 is for August 10th. 12 : Yep. 13 : Can you just take a look at 14 it? 15 : Yep. 16 : Let me know if you recall. 17 : Yep. Yep-yep. Okay. We got 18 the 9th here. Okay. Yep. I was attorney 19 conference for Day Watch 8:00 to 4:00. That's 20 my regular shift. 21 : Which day was that? August 22 9th? 23 : Uh, this is August 9th. Yep. 24 And then for -. Wait hold on a sec. Oh. 25 Right here. Yep. I did overtime from -. EFTA00058534 14 1 Activities lieutenant is usually 2:00 to 10:00, 2 but I overlap because my regular hours are 8:00 3 to 4:00. So, usually when they have the Senior 4 Specialist 8s do activities, we have to wait 5 until 4:00 to actually start the role because 6 we are still doing our regular time. 7 : Okay. 8 : So, I did activities from 9 4:00 to 10:00 that night. 10 : Now we've talked to other 11 lieutenants and they said that they actually 12 start the lieutenant positions two hours 13 earlier. Is that the case with this case as 14 well? Did you start at 4:00 or did you start 15 at 2:00? 16 : I started at 4:00 because I 17 was attorney conference for my straight time. 18 : Okay. So, because you 19 did that then you actually did start at 4:00. 20 : That is correct. 21 : Okay. 22 : That is correct. 23 : So from 4:00 until 24 Did you actually end with what time it says on 25 that as well? EFTA00058535 15 1 : Yes. Yes. 2 : Okay. 3 : 4:00 to 10:00. And for 4 August 10th -. 5 : So, you didn't go until 6 12:00 a.m. You went until 10:00 p.m. 7 : That is correct. 8 : Okay. Yep. Yeah. 9 Because - okay. That makes sense. 10 : Yes. Alright. And then I'm 11 looking at the 10th - - August 10th. I was 12 SHU2. I was supposed to be attorney 13 conference. That was my post. But because 14 that happened with Epstein, attorney conference 15 was - all social visits was canceled. So, when 16 I came in that day, I remember the lieutenant 17 telling me to go to SHU to help out. Be extra 18 bodies in SHU. That day they put a bunch of us 19 in SHU to just be there and help out. Yep. 20 : So, when were you in the 21 SHU on August the 10th? 22 : Yes. 23 : No, what time? 24 : Um 8:00 to 4:00. 25 : So, 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 EFTA00058536 16 1 p.m. 2 3 overtime. 4 : Yes. This is it. And I did : On August 10th. 5 Yep. From internal. We were 6 It was terrible with mandations and just 7 being short staffed. So. We all - everybody 8 that was there for day watch pretty much stayed 9 for evening watch. 10 : Okay. So, primarily what 11 we're going to be talking about though is your 12 - on August 9th, the shift from 4:00 to 10:00. 13 : Mm-hmm. 14 : And then we'll probably 15 ask you some questions -- 16 : Mm-hmm. 17 : -- at 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 18 p.m. in the SHU on -- 19 : Yep. 20 : -- the following the day. 21 22 23 24 it. Right? 25 : Yeah. : Yep. You want these back? : Yeah. : Actually since you reviewed EFTA00058537 17 1 : We always ask people to 2 initial and date just so that you know what 3 document. You know because we're going to 4 attach this to the transcripts. 5 : Yes. 6 : So you don't have to -. 7 You can do that you want if you want to circle, 8 but up top. 9 : Okay. 10 : If you just want to 11 initial and date up there. 12 : And today is the 14th. You 13 can just put your name on the list too. 14 15 16 17 18 Okay. So where it shows. Okay. : Thank you very much. Yeah. 19 : You can hold on to those. 20 : She can probably keep 21 that in front of her, so that if we ask 22 : Okay. 23 : Just in case. 24 : -- you about other people 25 you can kind of refer to it. EFTA00058538 18 1 : Who was your supervisor when 2 you worked at the MCC on August 9th and 10th. 3 -: He's a GS-9 4 lieutenant. 5 : Is that 6 : Yes. 7 : Okay. As a Senior Officer 8 Specialist, what's your daily duties? 9 : On that specific post or -? 10 Because it varies day-to-day. 11 : I was going to try to 12 differentiate between what you do before as a 13 Senior Officer Specialist to when you do 14 Activities Lieutenant. 15 : Okay. 16 : So on that post you said you 17 were an attorney conference. Right? 18 : Yes. 19 : What are your duties? 20 : Yep. So this post entails 21 pretrial inmates meeting with their legal team. 22 : Okay. 23 : Lawyers, probation, whoever 24 comes through on a legal matter. That's where 25 inmates meet with them on that floor for EFTA00058539 19 1 whatever reason. 2 : Okay. What about as an 3 Activities Lieutenant? 4 : Activities Lieutenant that 5 night? 6 : Yeah. That night. 7 : Yeah. So I'm required to do 8 rounds. Make sure that staff are alive and 9 well. Rounds of them doing their duties, 10 conducting their rounds, doing shakedowns. You 11 know making sure they're doing counts and 12 things like that. So basically supervising 13 staff. 14 : Okay. 15 : On counts and rounds. 16 : Yeah. On that note, counts 17 and rounds. Do you assist with doing the 18 counts and rounds? 19 : Negative. 20 : Okay. 21 : So you said though that 22 they make sure that you do them. How does a 23 lieutenant actually ensure that the employees 24 are doing their counts and rounds? 25 : Yep. So for instance if it's EFTA00058540 20 1 a certain day, we all have the operations 2 lieutenant will say hey I want you to observe a 3 count in unit 7 North. Or 9 North is doing a 4 bed book count. Go observe that count. So we 5 ensure that those things are being done 6 basically but when we make our specific round, 7 and we're speaking with the officer saying hey 8 is everything good. You know make sure you do 9 your rounds. Basically reinforcing and 10 reiterating because you know at the end of the 11 day we're all adults. So like you have a job 12 to do and we're just making sure. And you know 13 making sure you're doing it. We're not like 14 babysitting -- 15 : Sure. Okay. 16 -- and like hey, you know, do 17 a round. 18 : Do the officers though 19 ever actually participate in the rounds and the 20 counts? Are they supposed to do that at all? 21 : Say that again. I'm sorry. 22 : So are the lieutenants - 23 are they supposed to participate in any of the 24 counts and rounds done of the inmates so when 25 the COs are doing counts and rounds -- EFTA00058541 21 1 : Yes. Yes. 2 : Is that like a you're 3 supposed to do that like once a shift. 4 : No. So once a shift, we are 5 taking the count. So we are the ones in the 6 control center where the officers are actually 7 calling their counts in. So like observing 8 counts is something that we do irregularly. If 9 you understand what I'm trying to say. 10 : Mm-hmm. 11 : So like say for instance if 12 I'm activities today. I want to observe 7 13 North conduct a count. I want to go up to 9 14 North today and do a shakedown with them. It's 15 just something that as a lieutenant you take 16 the initiative and when you go to the unit you 17 say hey let's do a shakedown. Let's do a round 18 on this tier. Let's do a round on this tier. 19 You have any issues with any inmates? Oh yeah. 20 I had an issue with inmate Smith. Alright. 21 Let's go talk to Inmate Smith over there. 22 : So it's to your 23 discretion. 24 : Yes. 25 : Okay. So it's not like EFTA00058542 22 1 you need to do this or do that. It's just if 2 you want to take the initiative to make sure 3 that they know where they're going and they're 4 doing it right -- 5 : Yeah. 6 : You do it. 7 : It should be done, but it's 8 not like hey Monday it has to be done. Tuesday 9 it has to be done. You know as a lieutenant 10 you should be a lot - you should be speaking 11 with the officers and in the mix and hands on 12 with them. But it's not like Tuesday you do 13 it. Wednesday you do this. Thursday you do 14 that. 15 : Okay. 16 : And in Special Housing Unit, 17 we should be walking every single tier speaking 18 with every single inmate as a lieutenant making 19 rounds in a Special Housing Unit. 20 : Can you kind of explain 21 that a little bit? 22 : Okay. 23 : So during a shift should 24 a lieutenant be going to the Special Housing 25 Unit -- EFTA00058543 23 1 : That is correct. 2 : -- and actually doing 3 that? 4 : Yes. So in general 5 population, that's the opposite of Special 6 Housing. When you make a round, like you don't 7 have to hit. So let's say that they have eight 8 tiers. Tier 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8. You make a 9 round. You check on the officer. And then 10 you're in the unit but you're not because 11 inmates are out and about. So it's not about 12 walking every tier because the inmates are out. 13 But in Special I'm sorry, I'm just dramatic 14 with my hands. 15 : I love it. 16 : So in Special Housing, 17 inmates are locked down. So it's our 18 responsibility to go up on the tier and go to 19 every door and speak to every inmate because 20 it's not general population. It's not like 21 they can - when you come to the unit they can 22 come out and say hey lieutenant I got a 23 question. That's the reason why we have to go 24 to them. 25 : So the lieutenant does EFTA00058544 24 1 that though. 2 3 4 Yes. : Alright. For our round once a shift. 5 : So every shift a 6 lieutenant should be actually in the Special 7 Housing Unit checking on the -? 8 9 10 : Yes. : Oh, okay. : Yes. 11 : Is that in policy or is that 12 something that's new. 13 : It's our post orders. It was 14 in the post orders at Danbury. I know that for 15 sure. 16 : And who is it that's 17 actually responsible for doing that. Which 18 lieutenant? So for instance, each shift. 19 : Yep. 20 : Which is the lieutenant 21 that should be doing like a round or a count? 22 Did you say it was a round or a count? 23 : Either one. One is good 24 enough. So operations lieutenant is the 25 highest-ranking officer on shift on evening EFTA00058545 25 1 watch. So as an 8 acting as a lieutenant. 2 Like when I'm finished with that shift, I'll go 3 check in with him and I'll say hey what do you 4 need me to do. He'll go okay, I need you to 5 take the count in Control F4. I need you to 6 move this inmate from Special Housing Unit to 7 Suicide Watch. I need you to move this inmate 8 over here. And then after that I need you to 9 make sure all the food carts get up on time. 10 So I'm kind of like taking direction from the 11 operations lieutenant. And then we'll say 12 something like hey who's going to SHU. Me or 13 you? Oh, you go to SHU, hit all of this. I'm 14 going to be doing this. It's kind of like you 15 guys are. 16 : But every shift a 17 lieutenant should be in the Special Housing 18 Unit checking in with each inmate. 19 : Yes. 20 : Even the like midnight to 21 6:00 a.m. 22 : Well overnight is kind of 23 different because you're not -. You're making 24 a round but you're not tapping on every -. So 25 like if you're making a round in Special EFTA00058546 26 1 Housing Unit, and I'm walking past cell 1. And 2 he's like writing a letter or something. 3 Right? And the other one is like doing some 4 jumping jacks. And I'll show my face at the 5 door. You guys good? Yeah, Lu, I'm good. 6 I'll keep it moving. I'm not like hey do you 7 have any issues, tell me now. It's you know 8 what I'm saying. You make yourself present. 9 They know who you are. And that's the 10 opportunity for them to say what they need to 11 say if they have any issues or anything like 12 that. 13 : But even from like 10 14 p.m. to 6 a.m.? Because they're probably 15 sleeping between then, right? 16 : Yeah, but so, you're still 17 making a round and basically looking for live 18 breathing bodies. 19 : Okay. So and the 20 lieutenant should be doing that every night? 21 : Yes. 22 : Alright. 23 : I'm not really sure about the 24 morning watch shift. 25 : Yeah. EFTA00058547 27 1 2 3 4 : I'm not a fan of morning watch. I didn't work too much morning watch. : So that 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. you're not exactly sure. 5 : I'm not sure. 6 : Okay. 7 : I'm not sure. Yes. 8 : Right. 9 : And 9s don't work overnight 10 anyway. Because there's only one lieutenant on 11 and that's only an 11. Nines leave at 10:00 12 every day. 13 : But basically from he 14 hours of 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. a lieutenant 15 on each shift is going to -- 16 : Yes. 17 : -- check in. 18 : Yeah. 19 : Okay. 20 : On August 9th from when you 21 were acting When you were Activities 22 Lieutenant. Did you supervise any counts? 23 : No. I don't remember 24 supervising any counts. 25 : Okay. When you came on EFTA00058548 28 1 What are the count times at the MCC? 2 : On weekends and holidays, 3 it's 10:00 a.m. Every day 4:00 p.m., 10 p.m., 4 12:01 a.m., 3 a.m., 5 a.m. 5 : What about weekdays? 6 : Same time but a 10 a.m. count 7 in the morning. 8 : Okay. 9 : So the 4, the 12, 3, and 5 - 10 excuse me - it's every day. But in addition, 11 on the weekends and holidays we have a 10 a.m. 12 count. 13 : Okay. 14 : So you said you did not 15 conduct a count though on August 9th. 16 : I don't remember. I can't 17 say. I don't remember that. 18 : I'm only following this 19 up because you said that you were supposed to 20 or 21 : No-no-no. 22 : -- maybe one of the other 23 lieutenants did. 24 : I don't' remember who 25 specifically - me or - took the count EFTA00058549 29 1 in control. 2 3 : In control. Yeah. In the control center. 4 : But then you -. 5 : In the control center. 6 : I thought you said that 7 they're also supposed to go to the doors and 8 knock and see a lieutenant's face. In the SHU. 9 : In SHU? 10 : In the SHU. 11 : But that's not a count. 12 : Okay. That's a round? 13 : That's just when you make 14 your lieutenant rounds. 15 : Okay. So did you do a 16 round? 17 : Yes. I didn't' observe the 18 count in the Special Housing Unit, but I do 19 recall making a round and hitting every tier. 20 : Do you remember around 21 when you conducted that round on the 9th? 22 : I remember around like 8:00. 23 So I want to say it was between like maybe 5 24 and 8. Around that time. 25 : Somewhere between 5 p.m. EFTA00058550 30 1 and 8 p.m.? 2 : Yes. 3 : Okay. 4 : You were in the attorney 5 conference room before that. Right? 6 : Yes. 7 : Was Jeffrey Epstein in there 8 with you? 9 : Yes. 10 : Who was he meeting with? 11 : A bunch of attorneys on a 12 daily basis. He always met with a bunch of 13 attorneys. 14 15 with him? 16 : That day? I can't even tell : How many attorneys were there 17 you how many. But it's never just one. It's 18 always more than one attorney. 19 : Did you interact with them 20 that day? Like when you were doing attorney 21 conference. Did he speak to you? 22 : Um. 23 : Did you speak to him? 24 : He had a bladder issue. So 25 because I'm a female staff, he had to use the EFTA00058551 31 1 restroom frequently. So I would call a male 2 staff over to help me. So in at that time, I 3 would have to call him to the door, put the 4 cuffs on him, pop the door and he would use the 5 bathroom. But a male staff would be with him 6 to do that 7 : Okay. 8 and would be the same 9 gender. So I do remember him being in attorney 10 conference. 11 : When you were doing the 12 evening count. Well evening rounds - 13 lieutenant rounds - was he back in his cell? 14 : No. He was still -. And he 15 always did open to close in attorney 16 conference. 17 : Okay. We'll come back on 18 that. 19 : Yeah. 20 : Do you have any other 21 questions on that topic? 22 : If you're going to come 23 back but I would just say what time did he 24 leave. Well I just said it. 25 : Yeah. EFTA00058552 32 1 : What time did he leave? 2 : About 8:00 because attorney 3 conference ends at 8 and 95% of the time when I 4 was there, he was always there from start to 5 finish. 6 : Okay. 7 : With attorneys though. Those 8 were attorney conference hours. And he always 9 did all the hours. 10 : When you were - as the 11 lieutenant when you supervised employees, how 12 many employees did you have under you? 13 : On the evening watch shift or 14 day watch, it just really depends. If you're 15 working day watch you have more staff on. It 16 would be over 50. 17 : Have you ever had like any 18 instructions or anything that came from up 19 above - any orders - and you had to pass it on 20 to people that report to you. 21 : Mm-hmm. 22 : How would you do it? 23 : We would usually do 24 conference calls. 25 : How do the conference calls EFTA00058553 33 1 work? Explain that. 2 : Yep. The phones that we 3 have, we just press three - three times. And 4 then whoever presses 3, we all hear each other. 5 We call those conference calls. 6 : Okay. 7 : We make announcements over 8 the PA system. But if it's like pertinent 9 information, we do the conference calls and I 10 was also the kind of individual where I repeat 11 the same thing over and over again, so when I 12 made a round and I saw every officer, I would 13 say the same thing over and over. You know, 14 sometimes people miss conference calls. I was 15 in the bathroom; I was doing this. So, this is 16 pertinent information. So face-to-face and 17 conference calls. 18 : Okay. If there was any 19 instructions or guidance from upper management, 20 how would they give it to you? How would they 21 pass it on to you? 22 : They would pass it on to me 23 as an officer or as a 9 lieutenant? 24 : Let's do both since you can 25 speak about both. EFTA00058554 34 1 • 2 3 get it? 4 : Okay. : As an officer, how would you : As an officer, they would 5 always tell the captain who would then tell the 6 operations lieutenant and then inform the 7 officers. If the officers needed to know. I 8 mean as an officer, we're called line staff, we 9 didn't always know. We didn't' need to know 10 the gist of everything. So like say for 11 instance that night we had a high-profile 12 inmate coming in. We would find out when we're 13 doing our round or we're working that unit. 14 Like oh, you're the one that was on the news. 15 Okay. So we didn't know everything that was 16 going on. 17 : Okay. And that's as an 18 officer. What about as a lieutenant? 19 : Being a 9 I mean if you 20 happen to be in the office at the time that the 21 captain was telling operations, then you'll get 22 wind of it. If not, then if I was walking 23 around or out and about and I would see the 24 operations, and he or she will call me and say 25 I've got some information to tell you. Come on EFTA00058555 35 1 down here. The captain just told me X, Y, and 2 Z. So we're going to do Z, Y, and Z tonight. 3 : Okay. 4 So is it basically the 5 captain tells the ops lieutenant, the ops 6 lieutenant, disseminates to everybody else? 7 : Yes. 8 : Alright. So it's not 9 like the captain is responsible for telling 10 everyone else. 11 : No. 12 : The ops lieutenant really 13 is. 14 : That is correct. 15 : Okay. 16 : I mean the captain 17 communicates with staff as well, but you know 18 the chain of -- 19 : Command. 20 -- command is, inform an 21 operations lieutenant. 22 : Okay. And then it's 23 really the operations lieutenant's 24 : Yes. 25 : -- position. Okay. EFTA00058556 36 1 : So what if it was a different 2 shift? Something got passed down to the 3 operations lieutenant in the morning from the 4 captain and now it's coming up on evening 5 shift. How does that get passed down? Because 6 what if the captain doesn't get a chance to 7 meet with the operations lieutenant that works 8 the evening shift? 9 : So. 10 : Who pass -? 11 : You're saying that like at 12 8:00 in the morning. 13 : Lets say at 8:00 in the 14 morning there's an order or guidance that comes 15 down 16 : Okay. 17 : -- to the operations 18 lieutenant. 19 : Yep. 20 : And now that needs to be 21 spread out to the evening shift and the night 22 watch. Right? 23 : Mm-hmm. 24 : Well let's talk about 25 specifics. So if you got right here you're EFTA00058557 37 1 2 3 4 looking at August 9th. : Mm-hmm. : And you've got who I'm assuming -. 5 -: 6 -: 7 : Sorry, , who would 8 be here from - it looks like 8:00 to 4:00 p.m. 9 : He was on 07:00 to 3:00. 10 : 07 to 3:00 p.m. 11 : Mm-hmm. 12 : So he's on duty and right 13 there he's got Who's the ops lieutenant 14 there. That's the captain. Who -? 15 : Ops lieutenant is 16 : So is, so what he's 17 asking is if there's no overlap with 18 since he starts at 4:00. 19 : Mm-hmm. 20 : How does the information 21 get to 22 : So would be responsible 23 to let know everything that has 24 happened and what needs to be done. 25 : Alright. And is that EFTA00058558 38 1 every day? Is it if is - or - what am I 2 saying? 3 -• 4 . If 5 Sorry, I'm reading this upside down. 6 : That's Okay. 7 : Is always gone by 8 3 or does he ever have overlap with the 4:00 9 ops lieutenant. 10 : I mean people stay you know 11 when they need to whether it's paperwork or 12 whatever. But I've never tracked a captain's 13 body. 14 : Sure. 15 : You know. 16 : So your understanding 17 though is pretty much is, is would be 18 like his primary. 19 : Oh yes. 20 : And then he understands. 21 And then ' role, and he understands it, 22 would be to relay whatever information needed 23 to 24 25 : Yes. Yes. : Okay. EFTA00058559 39 1 2 3 4 : Yes. : And then role would be to bring that down to whoever is working in his shift. 5 : Yes. 6 : During his shift. 7 : Yes. 8 : Okay. Let's go through. Let 9 me get it. Do you recall being investigated by 10 the agents in regard to the Jeffrey Epstein 11 death? 12 : Not being investigated. 13 Being interviewed. 14 : Interviewed. Sorry. 15 : Yes. 16 : Interviewed. 17 : Yes. 18 : In regard to the Jeffrey 19 Epstein death. 20 : Yes. 21 : In 2019. 22 : Yes. 23 : Okay. What I have is a 24 summary of their interview with you. 25 : Mm-hmm. EFTA00058560 40 1 • 2 states. 3 : I'm going to read what it : Okay. 4 : Please let me know if it's 5 accurate and if there's any questions. 6 : Okay. Yep. 7 -: started working for 8 the BOP i at Allenwood. 9 transferred to MCC i is 10 a Senior Officer Specialist but also serves as 11 a lieutenant. This usually happens when 12 is working overtime and is in the capacity of 13 her acting activities lieutenant. 14 stated that in order to do a round, an officer 15 has to physically go inside the area that is 16 occupied by the inmates. As an activities 17 lieutenant, makes a round through the 18 Special Housing Unit and asks officers in the 19 SHU if things are good. She's usually called 20 numerous times to the SHU for certain issues 21 like when an inmate complains that he hasn't 22 received something, III., property. 23 then takes note of the issue and advises the 24 captain. 25 : I don't know about advising EFTA00058561 41 1 2 3 4 the captain. I mean the captain ain't there. So it's things that we handle at that specific time. We can't wait for the captain. : So who would you advise? 5 : Me being a 9, I would advise 6 operations and being that I am a Senior 7 Specialist, sometimes I can take the initiative 8 and rectify the situation. 9 : Okay. 10 : On the date of August 9th 11 -- 12 : Mm-hmm. 13 : -- if there wasn't any 14 issues, who would you have advised? 15 • • 16 • 17 : Yes. 18 : Okay. As an Activities 19 Lieutenant, sees a sampling of tiers at 20 MCC during her shift. 21 : Sample of tears? 22 : A sampling of tiers. 23 : Oh tiers, I'm sorry. 24 : Sampling of tiers. 25 : Sampling of tiers. Sorry. EFTA00058562 42 1 : Sorry. 2 : Go ahead. Sorry. 3 uses her PIV card at a 4 computer terminal to log rounds. 5 6 7 different log. 8 Yes. Each unit at MCC has a Each unit at MCC has a 9 different log. I don't' understand what that 10 means. 11 : I guess what they're 12 probably trying to say is if there's different 13 units, do they log their own counts and rounds. 14 : Yes. Officers are 15 responsible. They have their own PIV card 16 where they log in their own log information. 17 Yes. 18 : When you do rounds 19 : Mm-hmm. 20 : When you do rounds as a 21 lieutenant -- 22 : Mm-hmm. 23 : Do you keep track of it? The 24 rounds that you do. 25 : We log them. So -. EFTA00058563 43 1 : Is it different for each 2 unit? 3 : Oh yes. 4 : Okay. I think that's what 5 : Yes. 6 : And also you've got to 7 make sure you're talking about -. When you 8 were talking about a lieutenant doing counts 9 and rounds, are you talking about - or rounds I 10 should say -. You're typically talking about 11 doing rounds with your staff as opposed to with 12 the inmates. Correct? 13 : Well when you're making 14 rounds, it's for -. Because I am a person that 15 works in the corrections system. I mean staff 16 wellbeing is very important to me. 17 : Sure. 18 : You know. Of course we 19 supervise inmates, but if I'm walking on a unit 20 and I need to know where that staff member is. 21 Once I get that staff member, and I get eyes on 22 that staff member, then we do whatever we need 23 to do. 24 : So point being is if I'm 25 asking a lieutenant about conducting rounds and EFTA00058564 44 1 I'm asking a CO about conducting rounds, for a 2 lieutenant a round would pretty much you're 3 checking in with your round is with the COs. 4 The Officers. Whereas the officers rounds are 5 with the inmates. 6 : No. 7 : Oh that's not? 8 : No-no. So lieutenant's 9 rounds are staff and inmates. 10 : Okay. 11 : Now officers rounds is just 12 inmates. So like for example, we have to make 13 rounds on outside patrol. There's no inmates 14 out there. But we still have to leave the 15 building, see the OP1 officer, and then walk 16 around the building, make sure nothing is being 17 tampered with and come back inside. So our 18 rounds consist of finding security rounds as 19 well. You know we're tugging on doors and 20 making sure the recreation is secured -- 21 : Okay. 22 and stuff like that. So. 23 -: works as an SOS - 24 Senior Officer Specialist - during her normal 25 shift, which is usually the day watch, 8:00 EFTA00058565 45 1 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. If works overtime, 2 she acts as activities lieutenant from 4:00 3 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. has worked as a 4 corrections officer in the SHU usually in 5 overtime and on evening watch. During her 6 shifts in the SHU, has responsibilities 7 pertaining to the inmates such as phone calls, 8 showers, and the library. The 30-minute rounds 9 are recorded in TruScope and on paper logs. 10 stated that she has not worked with 11 anyone who didn't' do the rounds. 12 participates in the 10 a.m. count on the 13 weekends, but during the week, a count is not 14 done during her regular shift of 8:00 a.m. to 15 4:00 p.m. During the week, leaves 16 before 10:00 p.m. count is conducted. During a 17 count, all inmates have to be seen. The 18 inmates are counted by one officer, then 19 another officer. 20 : Double count. 21 : Double count. 22 : Two step. 23 : If there are only two 24 officers working during the count, one officer 25 will count the inmates, then the officers will EFTA00058566 46 1 switch, and the other officer will count the 2 inmates. The officers are to only count 3 inmates that are physically in their unit. 4 : We count inmates everywhere. 5 Like they may be inmates in food service 6 working. We have to still count them. They're 7 considered out-count, but we still have to 8 count them. So we count anywhere inmates are. 9 : So point being if there 10 were people in the SHU but then one or two of 11 them were outside the SHU at the moment, you 12 still have to account for them. 13 : Yes. 14 : Because they're on your 15 roster. 16 : Because they're in the 17 building. 18 : Right. 19 : Because they're an inmate. 20 They have to be counted for regardless. 21 : Okay. And how do you do 22 that? Do you still write them on the slip? 23 : Yeah. 24 : Just the number - total 25 number? EFTA00058567 47 1 : No. So we have a -. 2 : Or do you have to note 3 that they're out? 4 : Yeah. So we have a - first 5 we have to put them on the out count, which is 6 So like say for instance we have on inmate 7 that's out to law library. 8 : Mm-hmm. 9 : We will call control and say 10 hey we got an inmate out to law library. 11 Alright. Put them on the out count as law 12 library. So we'll put them on the out count. 13 So when that officer counts, I've got one in 14 law library. So. 15 : How is it documented on 16 the slip? 17 : Still documented. Yes. It's 18 still documented on the count slip. It's still 19 part of the official counts. 20 : And is there a note made 21 though that anyone was outside of the unit? 22 : No. 23 : Or just the total number? 24 Nope. There's not note made 25 because we do out counts as a common thing. EFTA00058568 48 1 : Okay. 2 : Out count. 3 : I want to show you a 4 document. It's a Bureau of Prisons count 5 sheet. 6 : Mm-hmm. 7 : And this is dated August 9, 8 2019. Can you just tell me what time period 9 that's for? 10 Yep. Alright. So August 9, 11 2019. Tell you what? I'm sorry. 12 : What count was that for? 13 : This was the 4:00 p.m. count. 14 So this is the time that the count is cleared. 15 So when we clear counts, that means that all 16 these areas called in their count. All the 17 counts were good and it's now clear. And now 18 inmates can move again. 19 : And is there a counts slip in 20 there? In the documents? 21 : We have 30 days. We have 22 something in the control center that we call a 23 30-day file. And a count slips are usually in 24 the corner or here, stapled to this package 25 right here. EFTA00058569 49 1 2 going. 3 4 Yeah. 5 It's a small box? Keep Small little piece of paper. Keep flipping through it. 6 All the way to the back. 7 : Now these are out counts. 8 Out counts. Out counts. Out counts. Yep. 9 Okay. Yes. Yep. 10 : Are these -? 11 : But it' not like on a while 12 piece of paper. They're little -- 13 : Right. 14 : -- pieces of paper. 15 : If there was somebody that 16 was not in the unit. 17 : Mm-hmm. 18 : Right? And that's the count 19 slip that they have to show. Would they just 20 write the number? Or how do they show? You 21 said you have to show an out count. Right? 22 : Yes. 23 : How would they show the out 24 count on that slip? 25 : So, for example, we got EFTA00058570 50 1 Let's use.... This is southern court. We have 2 inmates that go to court like during the day 3 because it's a pretrial institution. So, it 4 says FNYS. That's Southern District Court. So 5 up here it will say FNYS. There's three 6 inmates from 5 South that are still out that 7 are not physically in the building. So we have 8 to do an out count for them. 9 : And it's listed on the counts 10 slip as FNYS. 11 : Yes. So you've got -. 12 That's weird. FN, oh I'm sorry. FNYS. FNYS. 13 Oh there's one. I'm looking at food service. 14 That's on my way to discrepancy. Okay. FNYS. 15 One. There's one out. Same room counted and 16 the count slip would be right here. 17 : And what does that state? 18 : Hold on, let's see. That 19 states that there's one inmate by the name of 20 Clark that's in Southern Court from 11 South 21 Unit. So this is the Sentry document that 22 matches this document right here. 23 : Okay. Well here's the 24 question I have. If an inmate happened to be 25 moved to R&D. EFTA00058571 51 1 : What time? 2 : Let's just say during that 3 4:00 p.m. count. Right. 4 : Okay. 5 : Right before the 4:00 pm 6 count, if they moved to R&D. When the unit 7 does its count, do they record the inmate as 8 being in R&D or do they record it as still 9 being in the unit? 10 : They record the inmate being 11 out of the building. That's why it's an out 12 count. 13 : An out count. 14 : Yeah. 15 : And how would they record 16 that? It's just on the slip how do they say 17 it. 18 : Oh, it's just be 1. It would 19 just be the number. Like count 1. If I'm 20 answering your question. 21 22 23 question. 24 : So let's say there's 25 : Ask her a specific : Yeah. Let's just go. I'm 25 going to show you. EFTA00058572 52 1 2 3 Okay. This is the 10:00 p.m. count. Okay. 4 For August 9th, 19-. 5 : Yep. 6 : Can you tell me how many 7 people are in the SHU for the 8 : Yep. 9 : -- 10:00 p.m. count? 10 : 73. 70 inmates are 11 physically in special housing for the 10:00 12 count. 13 Is it, there's 73 inmates. 14 Right? 15 : Yes. 16 : And now I'm going to show 17 you. 18 : Mm-hmm. 19 : 12 pm. 20 : Mm-hmm. 21 : I mean 12 midnight. Sorry. 22 I apologize. 23 : Yes. 24 : That's on August 10th at 12 25 midnight. How many people are in the SHU? EFTA00058573 53 1 2 3 4 : : 72. 72. Yes. How many people in the RA? 5 What's RA by the way? 6 : RA is R&D. 7 : R&D. 8 : Mm-hmm. 9 : Now if you take a look at 10 that slip -- 11 : Yep. 12 -- for the count slip for the 13 SHU for that time period. Can you tell me what 14 it says on the count slip? 15 : You're talking about August 16 10, right? 17 : August 10th. 18 : Okay. 19 : That's the count slip in the 20 back. 21 : Okay. 22 : I know you didn't work this. 23 : Oh yeah. 24 : I know I'm just taking a look 25 at it and I want to get clarification. EFTA00058574 54 1 : Yep. Now you want me to tell 2 you which count slips which one? 3 : The SHU. 4 : The SHU one says. Yep. It 5 says 73. 6 : Does that match with the 7 number on -? 8 : It does not. It does not 9 match. 10 : So let's say if they had an 11 inmate in R&D. 12 : Mm-hmm. 13 : What's the procedure? What 14 would -? Do they have to get eyes on the 15 inmate before they put that -- 16 : Yes. 17 : -- as part of the count? 18 : So if someone is in R&D and 19 it could have been a self-surrender. Or 20 usually one of the federal agencies will drop 21 off an inmate. That happens all the time. 22 Internal number two would now be pulled from 23 their post and told to post up in R&D to watch 24 that inmate. Because R&D is a secure area, so 25 a staff member has to be in there. There's EFTA00058575 55 1 like no back-and-forth. Like you're now pulled 2 from your post and you have to physically stay 3 in R&D to watch that inmate. So what they'll 4 do sometimes. I'm not saying that happened 5 this time, we'll do something where we do like 6 the lieutenant will say hey, because it's so 7 close to count, and the inmate is accounted 8 for, we'll kind of like ghost count him. Ghost 9 counting meaning the inmate is still physically 10 accounted for but we'll just put it on the 11 slip. Again, I'm not saying this happened 12 there. 13 : Okay. 14 : But we have a lot of inmate 15 movement at count times. Sometimes we'll 16 improvise with the documentation, but never 17 with accounting for inmates. 18 : Okay. I just wanted to -. 19 The point of clarification is to let's say if 20 the count was done and the count was wrong. 21 What's the next step? If they identified the 22 fact that whoever the COs are, they counted the 23 inmates -- 24 : Mm-hmm. 25 : -- and it happened to be EFTA00058576 56 1 wrong. I'm not saying that happened here. 2 : Yeah-yeah. 3 : If it was wrong -- 4 : Yep. 5 and the lieutenant whoever 6 it was on shift identifies it as wrong, what's 7 the next step? 8 : So when you call in one bad 9 count, you have to go recount again. Right? 10 If you call in two bad counts, the lieutenant 11 authorizes a bed book count. That's, we have 12 like picture cards with like a long book with 13 the inmate's picture in it, reg number, his bed 14 assignment. We now have to recount the inmates 15 over again, but we're physically making sure 16 that like you're Smith, you're Jones, you're 17 where you're supposed to be. 18 : Okay. 19 : So we do bed book counts. 20 When you have to bad counts. 21 : So one bad count, the COs in 22 the unit have to redo the count. 23 : Yes. 24 : Do the lieutenants have to go 25 into the unit to do the counts to assist? EFTA00058577 57 1 2 3 else on that? 4 No. No. Okay. Do you have anything No. So if someone - if 5 they call in a count and for instance in this 6 instance, and they said hey we've got 72 7 present, one out. And they wrote 73 on the 8 count slip. What would happen then? 9 : What happens with the staff? 10 : So would you write 72 or 11 73 on this? 12 : Yeah. 13 : Or would the lieutenant? 14 So if the slip in this instance says what, 73 15 right? 16 : Yeah. The slip says 73. 17 : And if when they called 18 it in and told the ops lieutenant we've got 73 19 here but one of them is not in the unit. 20 : Mm-hmm. 21 : Is that considered a bad 22 count? Or what is that considered? 23 : It's not considered a bad 24 count. It's just considered something that we 25 improvise with and we have inmates coming in EFTA00058578 58 1 after hours as like self-surrenders and -- 2 : Uh-huh. 3 : -- when the DEA, the FBI, 4 they drop off inmates at that time. 5 : So what should have been 6 written on these? Should have it said 72 on 7 that outside sheet? Or should it have said 73 8 and vice versa? What should have the counts 9 slip said - 73 or 72? 10 : Well inmates that come in 11 that late, we call them safekeeps and they're 12 always going to go to SHU regardless. Always. 13 Because they're coming in late and they haven't 14 been medically assessed. We do the initial 15 intake, but it's not a full-on intake like 16 during day watch hours. So all inmates coming 17 in at that time always go to Special Housing 18 Unit. So again, I'm not saying that happened 19 that time, but there have been situations when 20 inmates are coming in and 21 : And so what I'm saying in 22 this specific instance -- 23 : Mm-hmm. 24 : -- if when they spoke to 25 the ops lieutenant and they said hey, we got EFTA00058579 59 1 72, but we wrote 73 on the count slip because 2 one's not in here but he's still on our books. 3 : Yeah. So the lieutenant can 4 make a decision. 5 : So is this sheet - this 6 top sheet - should that have said 72 or 73? Or 7 that would be the lieutenant's decision? 8 : That would be the 9 lieutenant's decision because this inmate is 10 physically in R&D. 11 : Okay. 12 : So they can combine those. 13 : If that were the case, if 14 when that ops lieutenant spoke to the people 15 16 17 the SHU. 18 Mm-hmm. : -- that were assigned to : Mm-hmm. 19 : Would it be normal for 20 that ops lieutenant to say just do the count 21 again? 22 : No. Because the ops 23 lieutenant was - knows that that inmate is in 24 off the streets. 25 : Mm-hmm. EFTA00058580 60 1 2 know. 3 So everybody is now in the : So would it be suspicious 4 if that ops lieutenant said hey they called 5 this in and they told me this and I had them do 6 it again? 7 : No. 8 : That's also not -? 9 : Happens all the time. No. 10 Happens all the time. 11 • 12 asking? 13 • : You follow what I'm Yeah. 14 : It's a pretrial institution 15 and we process inmates all times of the night. 16 : So it's not a big deal if 17 the ops lieutenant was just like you know what 18 just do it again? 19 : To recount again? 20 : Yeah. 21 : But all -. 22 : So I'll clarify. Does a -? 23 : I'm just trying to see why 24 would they say count again 25 : That's what we're trying EFTA00058581 61 1 to figure out. 2 3 accounted for. : -- if the inmates are 4 : If the story is - and 5 this would be the story -- 6 : Yeah. 7 : This is SHU calling in 8 our count. 73 is on the slip. One is actually 9 not in here. 10 Yep. 11 : And that lieutenant says 12 I want to make sure that we've got eyes on that 13 other body. 14 : Mm-hmm. 15 : Do the count again while 16 I ensure that we have eyes on that body. Does 17 that make sense? 18 : It makes sense, but it's 19 working extra hard for no reason. 20 : Right. 21 : Because when these inmates 22 come in at this time and they're placed in R&D, 23 like the operations is the highest-ranking 24 officer on. So we don't -. Like we get one 25 new in that like 3 in the morning, it's not the EFTA00058582 62 1 lieutenant's job to call the captain and say 2 hey we got more new. Because it's practice. 3 So. 4 : Would that change if this 5 person wasn't new? It was rather an inmate 6 that was in the SHU that just got moved out to 7 R&D for whatever reason. 8 : I mean we've had emergency 9 trips go out at weird times, but an inmate 10 doesn't -- 11 : Yeah, this is -- 12 -- he goes to R&D to put the 13 restraints on. Like if medical is not there, 14 you know, we do CPR, we make tourniquets, we do 15 a whole lot of things. 16 : And just for the record, 17 what is R&A and R&D? What do they stand for? 18 : R&D is just the out count. 19 : I mean what does it - is 20 it short for something or is it just letters? 21 : It's just letters. 22 : Okay. 23 : Yeah. 24 : So it's not like how R&D 25 would be research and development. EFTA00058583 63 1 2 3 : No. No-no-no-no. : It's nothing like that. : Just like the units is just 4 the letter. It's not like Bravo, Charlie. 5 It's just literally B-A, C-A. 6 : Okay. 7 : So let me show you something. 8 Can you look at the 4:00 p.m. count? 9 : Yeah. 10 : What's the count at the SHU? 11 : 75. Now they have one in 12 attorney conference at the 4:00 p.m. count. 13 But in special housing