APPEARANCES:

1 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OTHER APPEARANCES: OIG CASE #: NONE 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 4, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 3 4 1 The recorder is on. My 1 credentials. 2 name is and I am a Senior 2 : Thank you. And I'm 3 Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 3 II . 4 Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New 4 Okay. And what is your 5 York Field Office, and these are my 5 position? 6 credentials. 6 : Supervisory Correctional 7 : Okay. 7 Systems Suecialist. 8 This interview with 8 Great. Thank you. This 9 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee 9 is an official DOJ/OIG investigation into the 10 is being conducted as part of an official U.S. 10 death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and the 11 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 11 surrounding circumstances, and you are being 12 General, DOJ/OIG investigation. Today's date 12 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 13 is August 4, 2021, and the time is 1:22 p.m. 13 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 14 This interview is being conducted at the 14 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 15 Metropolitan Correctional Center, the MCC, 15 : Yes. 16 located in New York, New York. Also present is 16 : Thank you. So, there's a 17 DOJ/OIG Special Agent . This 17 form here. It's the United States Department 18 interview will be recorded by me, 18 of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, 19 . 19 Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested 20 Could everyone please identify themselves 20 to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. 21 for the record and spell your last name. To 21 "You are being asked to provide information as 22 start wain I am DO] OIG Senior Siecial Agent 22 part of an investigation being conducted by the 23 23 Office of the Inspector General. This 24 : This is DOJ/OIG Special Agent 24 investigation is being conducted, pursuant to 25 , , and these are my 25 the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. EFTA00114743 S 1 This investigation pertains to job performance 2 failure and security failure. This is a 3 voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not 4 have to answer questions. No disciplinary S action will be taken against you if you choose 6 not to answer questions. Any statements you 7 furnish may be used as evidence in any future 8 criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary 9 proceedings, or both." 10 And there's a waiver section. It says, "I 11 understand the warnings and assurances stated 12 above, and I am willing to make a statement and 13 answer questions. No promises or threats have 14 been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of 15 any kind has been used against me." 16 So, again, it's just reminding you that 17 you do not have to answer our questions. If 18 there's something you feel uncomfortable with 19 or if you want to stop at any time, you can 20 say, e I can, I'm done. 21 : Okay. 22 : Make sense? 23 : Yes. 24 : Awesome. So, if you 25 agree with that, here, you can review this. It 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 says employee's signature. If you sign there, and then em loyee's name Okay. name there. -- you can print your Thank you. : You want my whole name? I'll put it on there. (Indiscernible *00:02:38) What time is it? 1:24 p.m. : Thank you for completing that. I can fill in the rest, though. Okay. : So, where it says, employee's name, is it something other than or : No. That's me. Oh, that's a W? Yeah, that's a W. Oh, I thought it was a G. no, that's a W. Thank you. I'm filling in the MCC, New York, as the place. And I'm oin to sign. Again, this is and print my name. And Special Agent can you please sign? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 : This is Agent . I'm signin as the witness. : All right. And if any of these, you don't feel comfortable answering, .16that's totall fine. : Okay. This is just to verify who you are. Oh, first, before we start, I need to place you under oath. Can you please SW raise our right hand? Uh-huh. : Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? Yes. : Awesome. And if there is anything you don't understand or you want me to rephrase or ask it another way, please, by all means -- Okay. -- ask me to do so and I will. What is your current home address? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cellphone number? 8 Thank you. And your DOB? ril 2000, I think, 21. April 2021? My date of birth? Oh, Well, welcome. What's number? And what is your current And what is your highest level of education? Associates Degree. : And what is that degree i n? : In Criminal Justice. : And where is that from? : And where is that? In Georgia. : In Georgia? : Uh-huh. : Is, the name of the, what's the town? EFTA00114744 9 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 : I don't, It's an online school. rOh, okay. nationally-accredited online school. Okay, great. And when did you attend? : I attended in 2017, and I finished in 2019. Okay. Great. And what rior to working for the BOP? : I used to work for . I used to work for a detention center. They used to contract illegal immigrant kids and stuff like that, for the overnment. : Okay. And when did you do that? : I did that in, I started here in 2001. I started there, I think it was in 1998, I'm thinkin . '97, '98. : So you did that for, like, three or four years? : Yeah, three or four years, yes. 1 Great. Do you have any 2 militar 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Okay. And how long have you served with the Bureau of Prisons? : It's 20 years, 20-1/2 years, it will be 21 in A ril. : Do you recall your Enter on Dut date? : April 2000. I don't know the day, but I know the year, 2001. So April 2001? : Uh-huh. : Great. And when did you, do you remember when you went to BOP training, when : I went in August of 2001. I went in, yeah, August, either July or August, and I came back a week before 9/11 hit. : Okay. And what is your curreiiiiiiiiion with the BOP? : Supervisory Correctional Systems S ecialist. : Are you familiar with Jeffrey Epstein? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11 : Yeah. I heard, he's all on the news and stuff like that, and he was here. So, yeah. Okay. Great. Sorry. I'm going to circle back to that last question. : Okay. As that Supervisory Correctional Services -- : Uh-huh. -- Specialist, what does that job duty and responsibilities, what does that all entail? : I'm the supervisor of intake, intake and receiving, receiving and discharge of inmates, when they come in and when they leave. Okay. : We supervise the staff. : And you, so, basically, is that considered R&D? R&D, yes. : So, receiving and dischiiiiiii ii : Yes. Receiving and discharging. Yes. 12 1 And you supervise all of 2 that staff? 3 4 5 been -- 6 : Yeah. It's another supervisor 7 there also. 8 Oh, there's two of you? 9 : Yeah, it's two of us. 10 And who is the other one? 11 : Her name is 12 13 Do you happen to know how 14 to spell that last name? 15 16 17 Oh, okay. 18 : Yeah. 19 So, is a second 20 last name? 21 : Yeah. Uh-huh. 22 23 . Uh-huh. : Okay. Okay. And do you, 24 like, differentiate between your duties, the 25 two of you? by Uh-huh. : And how long have you But she goes EFTA00114745 13 14 1 : No, not really. We all do the 1 position at that time, correct? 2 same thin' cause we're on different shifts. 2 : Yes. 3 : Okay. 3 : And you have already 4 : So, we do the same thing on 4 described your duties and responsibilities. 5 each shift. 5 Did you have any interaction or involvement 6 : Okay. So you both are 6 with Epstein during his stay at the MCC? 7 responsible for the same thing? 7 : No. 8 : Yes. Uh-huh. 8 : What about when he came 9 : Just different times of 9 in or when he -- 10 day? 10 : No. I don't recall. No. I 11 : Just the times of day, yes. 11 don't think I ever seen him. 12 : How long have you been in 12 : No? 13 that •osition? 13 : Huh-uh. No. 14 : I've been in the position, it 14 : Okay. 15 will be three ears in April. 15 : Huh-uh. 16 : And do you remember when 16 : Not on suicide watch or 17 you started? 17 anythin' like that? 18 : I started in April 2019. 18 : No. Huh-uh. 19 : Okay. Great. All right. 19 : Or in SHU? 20 Now, are ou familiar with Jeffrey Epstein? 20 : No. 21 : Yes. 21 : Okay. 22 : Okay. And was he housed 22 : Huh-uh. 23 within the MCC in July and August of 2019? 23 : Do you recall if you 24 : Yes. I think so. Yes. 24 actually worked at the MCC on August 9th and 25 : And you had the same 25 10th, 2019? 15 16 1 : I don't recall, but I probably 1 years a'o. 2 did day watch, 6 to 2. I probably was here 2 Sure. 3 Burin the da,. 3 : So I don't remember who was 4 : Okay. So, 6 a.m. to 2 4 on. 5 p.m.? 5 Do you all, like, so, R&D 6 : Yes. 6 is a different piece with us. We have, like, 7 On August 9th? 7 all, like, the, oh, what is it called, the 8 : Uh-huh. I probably was. I 8 daily, like, schedule and logs of everybody who 9 got to look at m -- 9 worked -- 10 That would be a Friday. 10 : All the lieutenants, yeah, 11 : Yeah. I have to look at it, 11 that's the lieutenant log. 12 and see if I was here. 12 : Yeah. Do you guys, well, 13 . Okay. And would they 13 this is different. I'm talking about, like, 14 have been the same duties and responsibilities 14 the, like, who was working in the custody side 15 that ou have described? 15 of the house. Do you guys have, like, anything 16 : Yes. Yes. 16 like that, like, for instance, here would be 17 : Okay. 17 the Aiiiiiiiii 2019 daily assignment roster. 18 : Uh-huh. 18 : Yeah. We have a daily 19 : And who would you 19 assignment but not a roster. 20 primaiiiiiiiii with during that time? 20 : Okay. 21 : I work with all the CSOs, 21 : It's a daily assignment. It 22 Correctional Systems Officers. I don't know 22 will have, like, everybody's name that's on it, 23 who was on that da -- 23 and we 'List check off who is here. 24 Okay. 24 Okay. 25 : -- cause that was, like, two 25 : And then we'll put who is not EFTA00114746 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 here, like, AL for Annual Leave, SL for Sick Leave. But we do have that, but it doesn't look like that. Okay. So, would we be able to go back and see who actually worked on August 9 2019? : Ninth, yes, we should have it. Yes. Can I ask you terribly to do me some favors and start, can you, can we start a list and ask you to, like, provide some of this stuff for us? : Yeah. You can write it down. Uh-huh. Awesome. So, if you want to start, , just, the first one would be who was assigned on August 9th, August 8th and 9th, 2019. And did you report to anyone? Who did yiiiiiiiii to back then? : My supervisor was (Phonetic Sp. *00:10:12) We call him can't even pronounce, we call, his last name, I can't even pronounce his last name, but we call him Okay. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 18 : He's over in Brooklyn now. : Okay. : Over there. : And what was his position then? He's a CMC. : What does a CMC stand for? Case Manager Coordinator. : Okay. : Yeah. CMC, Case Manager Coordinator. Uh-huh. : And who would be the Case Manager Coordinator now? Mir 0h, one? : But he's still the same person but he's 'ust over in Brooklyn. : When you say Brooklyn, at the MDC? t: : MDC, Brooklyn. Yes. : Okay. Yes. : And did all those people he's still the same 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 19 that you mentioned that work in R&D, did they report to ou? Yes. . Okay. Uh-huh. Me and Okay. And were you previously interviewed under this investigation? No. • No? Huh-uh. • Do you have any, what is your understanding of what happened to Epstein on Auiiiiiiiiland 10th of 2019? : That he just committed suicide. That's it. : Okay. So, do you know how he died? No. Huh-uh. : No? Do you know if he, like, died of hanging or anything like that? : I guess it was hanging. I heard it was hanging, but I don't, I didn't reall , like, ask, cause -- : Okay. And do you have 20 1 any information with regard to any suspicious 2 activity that occurred on August 9th or 10th, 3 2019 -- 4 : No. 5 : -- leading up to the 6 discover of Epstein in his cell? 7 : No. 8 : No? Okay. So, these 9 are, now, we'll get into kind of the reason why 10 we're here, is to get into this documentation. 11 So, we have, there's an inmate, it's, Epstein 12 was housed with a cellmate named Efrain Reyes. 13 : Uh-huh. 14 : And we have a couple of 15 things comin from the U.S. Marshalls Service. 16 : Okay. 17 : Saying what was going on 18 with Efrain Reyes. So, here is one. It says 19 it's from a Sampson (Phonetic Sp. *00:12:04) 20 Choo. 21 : Yeah, Choo. Uh-huh. 22 : C-H-0-0. It was sent on 23 Thursda Au ust 8, 2019, at 10:34 a.m. 24 : Uh-huh. 25 : And it's, you're one of EFTA00114747 1 the, it looks like it says R (Indiscernible 2 *00:12:14 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 for Frida 23 24 25 21 Yeah, that's all R&D. Yeah. : Okay. So, it was sent to all R&D. : Uh-huh. Yeah. : And yourself, and it says, "Transfer of Prisoners from NYM to Geo." To Geo, yes. : So, is that from the MCC to the contract facility? : Yeah, from MCC, and he's transferrin to Geo, yes. : Okay. Great. And then, in the body, it says, "The following prisoners are to be transferred." Yes. : It says Jayvon Busey (Phonetic Sp. '00:12:37) and then Efrain Reyes. Yes. : "Please schedule transfer 9/19." : Uh-huh. : And we have another one, the same date, it says it's from a different 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 p.m. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 22 person with the Marshalls Service, saying - E Uh.6: -huh. : Again, this is all, like, R&D. R&D and other staff, yes. : As well as the lieutenants and, okay. ies. Uh-huh. : There's you, and it says, "Prisoner production, 8/9/2019." Thursday, August 8, 2019. Was sent out -- : That was sent at 3:36 Uh-huh. : And then within it, it has the prisoner's schedule report, and the second person, there are the two people that I just listed -- Yes. -- and the second person being Efrain Reyes. : Yes. 1 2 within." 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23 And it says, "Transfer Yes. : Does this tell you what happened with Efrain Reyes? : This just says that he transferred to Geo. That's it. That's what this saes. He's transferring. Okay. : That's all it says. But right here, when they do a transfer, I don't know, like, right here, this says court. So, I don't know if he went out to court and then they transferred M him ou see what I'm saying? r Uh-huh. : Cause this says court. And plus, as me being a supervisor, I don't do the movement. : Okay. So who, who -- : I'm not the movement officer. : So who would do that? would be the one? : Yes. Yeah, she does the movement. %le and , we don't do the 24 1 movement. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 : I guess that's automatically, 23 they put that there, cause this is the U.S. 24 Marshalls form. So, I think they automatically 25 just put that there. I think what it is, is Okay. So, based upon this, does this, cause this person also is listed as transfer within, court. : Yeah, and court. Yes. : And everybody else -- : Uh-huh. -- no one else has that next to their name. They all have, like, senteiiiii iiiiring, sentencing, status hearing. : Yeah, but that still, the type is court. That's just what they're going to court for. : Right. So, this one, though, being that says transfer within, court : Transfer, he's transferring, and he Indiscernible *00:14:16). : Does that mean he was going to court, or that's just an automatic field? EFTA00114748 25 1 that when they come and pick up the inmates, 2 cause the U.S. Marshalls will pick up the 3 inmates. 4 : Uh-huh. 5 : And they will transfer them. 6 So, I guess they go sit over there, like 7 they're going to court, and then Geo comes over 8 there and they pick them up from the U.S. 9 Marshalls. 10 : Okay. 11 : That's how it works. 12 : So, when someone is 13 transferred, so, when these people are 14 transferred from here to Geo -- 15 : Uh-huh. 16 : -- what document is 17 created by, I guess it sounds like , but 18 by the BOP Indiscernible *00:14:53). 19 : We only do like a, we need, 20 like a transfer receipt from the Marshalls, 21 saying that they're going to transfer and we 22 usuall List need a 64. 23 : Uh-huh. 24 : And a medical summary. A 64 25 is a transit form. 26 1 : Okay. 2 : That the BOP, that we just go 3 on Sentry and do a PP 64 and put the reg 4 number, and we put T for transfer, and down at 5 the bottom, we could put as many reg, I think 6 it's like 20 reg numbers down there, of whoever 7 inmates are leaving, and then a 64 will be 8 printed out. 9 : Okay. 10 : And it's just a transit form. 11 : Now is there something 12 that's like, would these people be placed on 13 the court list, though? 14 : Yes. Yes. 15 : Okay, so they would be 16 put on the court -- 17 : They would be placed on the 18 court list es. Yes. 19 : And what would it say 20 next to their name? 21 : WAB. 22 : And that's it? 23 : Yes. That's it. 24 : Okay. 25 : Uh-huh. That's what she 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 27 usuall uts, WAB, on there. : Now, if that court list is provided to us, so if Epstein was housed in the SHU, the SHU would be provided that court list, correct? Yes. : It would say -- : It would be like a, it's like a roster. It's not -- I said Epstein, I'm sorry, I mean, Efrain Reyes. : Yeah, it's like -- If Reyes was housed in the SHU : It's like a roster. They wouldn't get this or anything like that. It's just like you go on Sentry and you print out a roster and it will have his name on there, and then we'll write down what unit he's on, and then internal will come and pick it up, or they will hand it out, whatever, whoever is going out to court, that's the unit that they give the court list to. Okay. : That's how it works. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 28 So, would those people know if he was going to court or being transferred? They wouldn't know that. : They wouldn't know that? They would know it was WAB? : Cause it's really, like, it's reall none of their business. none Right. Okay. : Yeah. They would just know that he's one. You know what I mean? : Well, because, like, kind of like when you said, when I said, you knew who Efrain, or, you know, Epstein was or is, you said, eah, he went to court. : Yeah. Uh-huh. Cause, is that -- : Yeah, cause, I'm - • -- so, like, that's actuaiiiiiiiiiumor? : That's what, that's what it would be, or we'll call up there, like, are you going to send Efrain Reyes down, and they will say, yeah, he's going to court, and then if he doesn't come back, we might call up there, or EFTA00114749 29 1 they will know that he's not, cause he's not, 2 or the '11 call us and ask us. 3 • Okay. 4 : You know? Or something like 5 that. So, they should have, I'm thinking they 6 should have known we would have probably, 7 somebody probably would have told them that he 8 wasn't comin back he was getting transferred. 9 : Okay. So, as far as 10 this, there's the daily log, 8/9/2019, and on 11 the third page of this shows Reyes, pre- 12 removed. 13 : Yes. 14 : Now, if he was just going 15 to court -- 16 : It would say court. 17 : Yeah. It wouldn't say 18 pre-removed? 19 : It wouldn't say pre-removed. 20 Yes. 21 So, this is, by looking 22 at all of this, I'm assuming you can tell, 23 yeah, he was never going to court. He was 24 alwayiliiiiilio be transferred? 25 : He was going, yes. Yes. Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 30 Okay. And I think this may have been what you were saying. Is there any way for the SHU staff to know, he's leaving and niiiiiiiii back, rather than -- : See, we don't, like, it depends. Cause we really don't, we really don't tell them, like, if I talk to them, I might sa like he's not coming back. S: ill: Okay. Or so, I might tell them, so I don't know, on that day, who called up there and told them to have him ready, you know what I mean? And have him ready, and he's not comin back. : Now, who would normally call and tell them that? : It would be the person that's workino in R&D. • Okay. So would it be probabl for this, as well? : It wouldn't be . Yeah, she just does the movement. Okay. : That's it. : It wouldn't have been 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 31 her? No, it wouldn't have been her. : All right. : She just does the movement. So, it would be the person that's on the front desk. So, if the people that escorted Re es down -- : Uh-huh. • -- to R&D and they knew that WAB was actually, in fact, listed next to his name -- Uh-huh. -- should have they known that he is not coming back, if it says WAB? Not really. : No? : Because they don't work R&D. You see what I mean? They work custody. Okay. : So, it depends who was up there. It could have been new staff, who knows. Cause a lot of people don't know what WAB does. Well, they know it means 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 32 "with all belongings." : Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. So, a person who would say, yeah, I know it's with all belongings, and, you know, we know it's very likely there is not going to come back, but we don't know for sure. Does that sound at all reasonable? : They probably would have asked, like, called to see if he was coming back. Like, it was after, maybe 4:00 or somethin like that -- : Then they usually would - : -- they probably would have asked if he was coming back, cause, like, when I first transferred here, I worked in Brooklyn and then I transferred to Butner. I didn't know what WAB meant -- Right. until I got here, cause we don't use WAB ou see what I mean? : Yeah, but if these people, if these people absolutely said no, we know what WAB is -- EFTA00114750 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 33 AB, yes. -- but they thought, you know, if they're claiming, well, we thought he was going to court, and there's always a chance he could come back from court? So, see what I'm sa in ? So, with this guy -- : Yeah. -- so this goes, so where this fits in is, Epstein, did you know that Epstein was required to have a cellmate? I didn't know that, no. : Okay. So, he was required to have a cellmate, and Reyes was his cellmate. Okay. : So, part of the reason why they're saying that Epstein died is because his cellmate was removed and never replaced. So, you know, some people say it's because of the 30 minute rounds, or a lot of it is the combination, some people are saying, well, there was no one in his cell, so he took advanta e of not having anybody in there. : Okay. So, in this case, the SHU 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 34 staff, some people are saying, yep, I knew he was WAB, but there's always a chance that he could, he could have returned. Is that a legit No. Not a WAG. : No? So, a WAB, they should have known he ain't coming back? : Huh-uh. He's not coming back Yeah. different. : Okay. WAG. : Okay. : Unless we tell you something But a WAB, he's not coming back. : Okay. So, it's the primary uestion then. : Yes. : Great. So, again, to you, so, (Indiscernible *00:20:19), he was being transferred, not going to court. : Not going to court. But I guess the Marshall just took court, because when they come, if a WAB is leaving with the Marshalls, they usually just put court, because they pick the inmates up --• 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 35 All the same -- everybody at the same time, and take them over there, so that's why they have court. Okay. : On their form. : So, this is, anytime we present someone with documents, you just ask them to initial and date it. Okay. : It's not to vouch for the, not certifying it's accurate, just so you can say, this is what we discussed. : What I saw. Okay. So, just anywhere. And it is the 4th. : So, the two emails, technically, what you're saying, this goes hand-in-hand, one says he's being transferred, the other one states that he is being picked up by the Marshalls (Indiscernible *00:21:09). : Yeah. Yeah. They both go hand-in-hand, because this one is the Marshalls, that they're telling us, but they're telling us WAG, he's going to Geo. So, we'll 36 1 know he's transferring to another state. 2 That's another state facility that houses 3 federal inmates for the Marshalls. And then 4 this one is the list that the Marshalls put 5 out, also, so they kind of go hand-in-hand. 6 : How the pick-up itself is 7 (Indiscernible *00:21:30). 8 : Yes, how the pick-up, yes. 9 But everything is going to say court on the 10 side, because the Marshalls are going to pick 11 up, when they pick up the court, they're 12 pickiiiiiiiiii IWABs also. 13 : And on that court document, 14 you might have answered this already, the court 15 document that's created internally, it would 16 have said WAB? 17 : Yeah. Like, it's like almost, 18 a recei t a transfer receipt that we do. 19 : Okay. 20 : And it will say WAB. It will 21 say, like, it will say his reg number, his 22 name, and it will say his unit and it will say 23 pre-removed, so pre-removed, that means he's 24 not comin back. You know what I mean? 25 : And that's (Indiscernible EFTA00114751 37 1 *00:22:04). 2 : Pre-removed. Yeah. He's not 3 coming back. So that's what would it be. It 4 wouldliiiiiiiiiemoved. 5 : Do you have a copy of an 6 example of what that court document looks like? 7 No, ri ht? Is it ossible that we -- 8 : The court list? 9 : The court list. Do we, if 10 you can rovide us with one? 11 : We don't have, huh-uh. 12 : No, not that one, but any 13 type of -- 14 : Which one? 15 : -- what it looks like? 16 : Any samples? 17 : Yeah. 18 : I could -- 19 : Has it changed since that 20 time, that document? 21 : Cause we do a, but, yeah, the 22 Marshalls, now they got a picture on theirs, 23 the picture of the inmate and stuff like that. 24 And now we sign for it. I don't know if that's 25 because of Epstein. I don't know. 38 1 : But we just want an example. 2 : Now we have to sign. 3 : If you can provide us -- 4 : Okay. : I'll put that on here. 6 : I'll put that, write that 7 down. Write down Marshalls, like a Marshalls 8 receipt. And I can give you a copy of it. 9 I'll black, can I blacken out the inmate's 10 photos on there? 11 : That's fine. 12 : Photos and the name, if 13 you want. 14 : Okay. 15 : We just need to see -- 16 : You just want to see -- 17 : -- what it says next to 18 their names. 19 : Yeah, their new one. 20 : (Indiscernible *00:23:03) 21 differentiate -- 22 : The ones that the Marshalls -- 23 : -- somebody is going to 24 court or someone is being transferred, you 25 know. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 emailed? 39 Okay. : With that, just so we can say, like, cause, like you said, you don't have that court list anymore? No. Huh-uh. No. Huh-uh. : And are they maintained for an amount of period of them? an We, no. Huh-uh. : So that day, you get rid of them? Uh-huh. Yeah. : And there are never emailiiiiiiiiihing? : I don't know how far my emails are going to go back. You see what I'm saying? I don't think m emails go all the way back. : Well, we have access to be able to et everybody's emails. : Okay. Cause we actually got those, some of these from -- : So, you could probably look and see. But are they ever 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 40 : Because that would be would, yeah, she would have did it, because she would email to the unit team and to medical, statin that she needs a medical summary form. : Okay. So, and she would have sent the court list? : Yeah, she would have sent the, like, not, see, he would, since he is WAB, it would be a receipt that she would send out, saying that she needed a medical summary and a 64 for him. Okay. Make sure you're documiiiiii iiiose, too. : Yeah, they wouldn't get the, they wouldn't get the court list, like the unit team that, his unit team and the medical department wouldn't get the court list. She would do her own one and send it, saying that they're leaving, those two are leaving and can you please send me a medical summary and a 64? : But the actual court list wouldn't be emailed to anybody? : Yeah. It probably would. I don't know how the Marshall was doing it at that time. I think they were doing it just EFTA00114752 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 like that. But we don't email the Marshalls court list to an body like that. : No, no, no. I mean, like, don't you create what you give to the SHU, : It's a roster. It's on a, when we o on Sentry, that's how it's created. : But is it still on Sentr , that -- : No. It gets deleted. . Okay. : Yeah. And we get a new, we do a new one. Every day? : Yeah. And that's what does. that one da So, it's only kept for : Yes. Yes. Uh-huh. . And there's no way to -- And it's not really even kept. Right. : We just print it out. That's it. Like, we got, when we go in to do another one, we got to delete the old one. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 kept for an 42 Okay. So, it's never eriod of time, really? : No. Huh-uh. Printed out, given out -- : Given out. Yeah. Uh-huh. -- then (Indiscernible *00:25:10) shredded. : Yeah. Trashed? Uh-huh. All right. So there's no way for us, whatever was created, saying what it said next to Efrain Reyes's name, whether it said WAB or not, there's to tell -- : I can ask l= to see -- Yeah, yeah. We're going to talk to her. : Yeah. Talk to, and see if she has it. : When she came in, just so you know, she was great. She was very cooperative. Yeah. To see if -- : But we didn't have these documents (Indiscernible *00:25:29). 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 43 : Yeah, to see if she has it. If ya'll could go back in her email, I don't know how, cause she's the movement person. Right. So, to see how far she went back. Yeah, if you could ask her, I mean it might come, mean more from you. : Okay. She won't be back until tomorrow. Right. And we're hoping to be back here tomorrow. : Okay. She won't be back until 12 tomorrow. She comes in at 12. Okay, perfect. Anything more on Re es before we move to Fernandez? : No. Okay. Do you have any (Indiscernible *00:2S:56) any daily lieutenant logs? No. None. : None? All right. So, if you see on this daily lieutenant log, just to close out the loop with Reyes, it does actually say, we don't know when it was entered, but it 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 44 does say at 8:38, he was pre-removed. Now, the other person we wanted to talk to you about is this I.M. Fernandez, and it says on dry cell with staff watching, R&D. IM•don't-- : And then it says, "At 3:15 p.m., on August 9, 2019, Fernandez was placed on dry cell from ZA," which is the SHU. Do you know anything about this? : NO. Huh-uh. : No? : Huh-uh. : Does that ever, does that happen often that people are placed in dry cell and watched in R&D? : In R&D? No, cause we don't let them. Huh-uh. You don't let them do that? We don't let them do it, no. : Do you know, do you recall at all being that the Epstein involvement on there, this was the Friday before it someone being in R&D? : No, I don't recall at all. EFTA00114753 45 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 of. 22 23 24 25 Huh-uh. Would that be something that ,irold have known? : You know (Indiscernible *00:26:55) No. Huh-uh. No? : If they would have brought them in and send them in there with the staff, probably, if they would have told me, I would said, no. Take them back up to SHU and put them on a dry cell. • Okay. : Cause we don't put them down here, cause we're not watching them. So, if, so it says that he's with staff on R&D. : See, I don't even know what staff they're talking about. Was he, was another was a custody staff watching him? • Yeah, that I'm not sure : Or was it R&D? You see what I'm sa in ? : So, what I was going to ask, though, is so he was never keyed out. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 What you see here is the movements for Fernandez. It shows that he was placed in, placed in Z, let's see -- : L5 cell. Yeah, I'm just trying to where does it say the SHU part? : Z is SHU. Z is SHU? Uh-huh. Okay. Placed in SHU on 8/2/2019? Okay. : And then it says that he was removed and placed in, I guess, R&D. Yeah. RO1, yeah. I don't -- : In RO1. But he wasn't keyed out until 8/10/2019, at 12:35 a.m. I don't -- : And then it says it was corrected, cause he was never keyed out of the SHU and placed into R&D until the following mornin : Huh. Do you know who would be responsible, if they are taking him from the 47 1 SHU and putting him in R&D, who would be 2 responsible for actually making that movement? 3 : The lieutenant. 4 : The lieutenant would be? 5 : Whatever lieutenant, either 6 the SHU lieutenant or operations lieutenant. 7 : Okay. So, if the SHU 8 lieutenant is actually off that day? 9 : 0 erations. 10 : Operations lieutenant? 11 : Uh-huh. 12 : Okay. And not the SHU 13 staff? 14 : No. They can't. Huh-uh. 15 They don't have authorization to do that. 16 Okay. So it would have 17 been the operations lieutenant that was 18 responsible? 19 : 0 erations lieutenant. Yes. 20 : Okay. All right. So, 21 let's see. And the operations lieutenant at 22 that time, I think, so, this would have 23 happened at 3:15s_t2as placed on that, that 24 would have been IIIIIII, cause he was 2 to 10. 25 Do you want to quickly show, let me see the 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 48 p.m. and the 10 p.m. and the 12 a.m. counts? Cause I want to show her the count slips, so she can tell me who those people were that submitted count slips. : To show, I don't have (Indiscernible *00:29:03). : Yeah. Yeah. The other ones.,,vant to show her the names. : You want the 5 p.m., 10 p.m., and 12? and the 12. is the 12. p.m. got from R&D, *00:29:28). Would that be Custody or one of your fic, •. No, that's Custois That's a Custody person? : Yeah. That ain't us. Huh-uh. Nope. lust the 10 p.m. I got the 10 p.m., and this Okay. So, this is 10 : 12 a.m. Here's the count slip we (Phonetic Sp. EFTA00114754 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 49 All right. Not an R&D person? Yeah. : Okay. R&D. : They just picked it up. I think it was just in R&D. That's where the count was at, but that's not, wasn't in our, huh-uh. And what about, this one is the same. This was the 12 a.m. -- : Who is that? : It looks like a and a ? (Phonetic Sp. *00:29:52) : Custody. : That was Custody? : Yeah. Now, what time was that? A6 minute -- : That one says 12:01 a.m. : We don't even work until, we work until 10 .m. : Would they be able to have sta ed in there? : Yeah. By themselves? 50 1 : Anybody, yeah. Uh-huh. 2 : There you go. 3 : Yeah. We work from 6 to 2, 6 4 to 2, and we got two shifts from 12 to 8 and 5 then evening watch is 2 to 10. So we're not 6 even there after 10:00. 7 : Okay. So, as far as 8 you're concerned, though, if the SHU lieutenant 9 is out, when that inmate was moved from the SHU 10 to the R&D, placed on dry cell, the Ops 11 lieutenant should have keyed -- 12 : It should have been operations 13 or the activit lieutenant. 14 And not -- 15 I don't know which one. 16 : What about Control? 17 Could have Control done it? 18 : No. Huh-uh. 19 : No? 20 : They, no, they don't have 21 authorization to move an inmate. 22 Okay. So, just, okay. 23 : Yeah. 24 So the 0 s lieutenant. 25 And that would have been at 51 1 that time. Do you mind just initialing and 2 datin these -- 3 : Yes. 4 : -- to show what we talked 5 about. (Indiscernible *00:31:04). 6 : Do you recall what time you 7 left tlasla? 8 : I don't even remember if I was 9 here. If I was, I would have left by 2, 10 sometimes 2:30 or something like that. Yeah, I 11 don't even recall if I was here that day. The 12 9th, ri ht? Yeah. 13 : And then, thank you very 14 much. Here you go, . The next thing 15 would be, we have had to do pretty thorough 16 email reviews and this is, where is it, 17 something to do with you being involved with 18 SHU something. 19 : Oh, I had to go when I was at 20 the, to o to the SHU meeting. 21 : That one? 22 : Yep. I don't know how 23 you got my (Indiscernible *00:32:16) assigned 24 this, or we were going over it. Okay. So, 25 this one, it says that, please accept this 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 52 appointment as a reminder to attend the weekly complex SHU meetings. This meeting is normally scheduled for every Wednesday at 9 a.m. And this one, it says it was from Tuesday, 8/6/2019. Uh-huh. : I know this was a long time ago, but do you remember at all, well, first of all, what were those SHU meetings about? : They just go around about the inmates. Like the inmates on Unit 10, up there, and the SHU inmates. They just go around where ever inmate that is in SHU. Okay. : Like, if they're on DS, if DS is over or they're on FBI referrals and stuff like that. That's all it's about. : Okay. Did they talk at all about, like, if the cameras weren't working or an I thin like that in the SHU? : No. Huh-uh. That wouldn't be sometiiii iiiiidiscussed? : Huh-uh. No. EFTA00114755 53 1 Do you know anything 2 about the cameras not working in the SHU? 3 : No. 4 : Or at the MCC at all? 5 : No. 6 : August 9th? 7 : Huh-uh. 8 : No? Okay. So, it would 9 be just talking about the inmates during this? 10 : Yes. That's all they talk 11 about the inmates yes. 12 : All right. 13 : Was there any specific 14 discussions about Epstein? 15 You know, I don't remember. 16 : Anything that stands out, 17 like they might have mentioned, hey, he's on 18 Special Watch or anything like that? 19 : No. Huh-uh. 20 : Are you familiar with the 21 SHU? 22 : Yes. 23 : Do you know what this is 24 a picture of? 25 : That's 10. This would be 10. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 54 This is 10 South? : Ten South. : These are the doors to 10 South? : That's the door, and that's the lieutenant, and I forget what that door, the lieutenant's door is right there. : So, the lieutenant, is that, like, the SHU lieutenant? : SHU lieutenants. Uh-huh. : Okay. : Uh-huh. : So, the SHU lieutenant actuaiiiiiiiiiright outside 10 South? : Half the time, he or she is not even in their office. They're running around SHU. Okay. So, like, the officer's station is right here? Yes. Uh-huh. : And this is the SHU lieutenant's office? : SHU lieutenant, and that's Unit 10. So, that's news to me. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 55 All right. Do you mind, I'll just do it for you. Oh, you know that? : I knew, I knew the rest. I just didn't know that this was the SHU LT. : Yeah, the SHU lieutenant, cause you come up the steps, right here. And this is the SHU lieutenant, and then it's Unit 10 ri ht there. exit? Yes. Uh-huh. : And is this the, what is this? And this is the emergency : The station, officer's station. Officer's station? : Yes. : So, I'm just going to say OS for this. Do you happen to know what that goes to? : What tier is that? Is that, no -- rTo the left? I think L, is it L? I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 56 don't know :which one that is. : That's fine, cause here's the, according to this, it looks like it would be, this would be J tier and that would be L tier, but if you don't know off the top of your head, that's fine. : Okay. I don't know. You know what? Yeah. It's probably 3, and it's H or something down below. And then there's G tier over here, going up the steps, going towards Unit 10. Cause I don't really -- Yeah. Well, this is that. Okay. : For our purposes, that's the big thing you provided to us, was that that's the SHU lieutenant. Okay. : And were you familiar with ifie. What cell he was housed in? : They told me afterwards, that that was his cell -- IMNot during that time? -- but not during the, huh-uh. : Okay. EFTA00114756 57 1 : No. 2 : That's fine. 3 : Huh-uh. 4 : Do you mind just 5 initialing and dating that? Thank you very 6 much. 7 : You're welcome. 8 : Here you go. Why did I 9 print this one out? Oh, this one just showed 10 that you actually worked on August 10, 2019. I 11 guess ou ut in for overtime. 12 : Yeah, I do -- 13 . For the emergency? 14 Uh-huh. 15 Did you learn anything 16 during that time, when you were working, about 17 Epstein and his death? 18 : No, not really. I really 19 didn't, they told, they called me in. I really 20 didn't want to come in. So, you know. 21 : On Saturday? Why 22 wouldiiiiiiiii 23 : I really, no, I really didn't 24 want to come in. They called every, they 25 called everybody in. I didn't want to come up 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 58 in here. They just called everybody in. I just heard that he committed suicide and that's it, and they just wanted all the staff to come in. : Okay. Was there any talk at that time about Reyes or any of that stuff, about his cellmate being removed? : No. Huh-uh. : Nobody talked about that? No. : Did you learn anything about that after the fact? After. : What did you learn? : I just learned that they said Reyes was his roommate. I didn't even know he was. Okay. : Yeah. At the time. : Was there any talk about, like, he left, unbeknownst to the SHU staff or anything like that, or any talk about how it happened -- No. Huh-uh. : -- or where he went? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 59 No. Huh-uh. : Cause when you came in, you first said, yeah, he went to court. Was that iiiiiiiiirstanding, he went to court? : Yeah. That's what I was, yeah, that's my understanding, until you showed me the thin . : So was that the first time ou're seeing -- : Cause I wouldn't remember -- -- that he actually wasn't in court, and he was transferred? : I probably seen it two years ago, but I just didn't remember until you showed me, but I knew he went to court. They said he went to court, but nobody ever said WAB, you know what I mean? . Right, right, right. : So, until you showed me. So, you thought he went to court? I thought he went to court. : And (Indiscernible *00:3iiiiiilll : Yeah, but then I found out 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 60 later that he was his Bunkie. : Okay. And did they ever question R&D about, hey, is this, did he really go to court or not? No. Huh-uh. : No one has ever spoken to anyboiii iiiiii : They never said nothing to us about an thin . : Okay. And here we come. So, let's, filling in some blanks. Thank you. So nothing special from that day that you can think of? : No. Huh-uh. No. That I just didn't want to come in. . Do you know of anything about, like, records being destroyed during that time or anybody recovering anything? : No. No. Huh-uh. Nothing. : Do you remember where it, what ots.lidwhen you came in on that Saturday? : They just was, I know they wanted his records. Like, the, like, I forget what they wanted, to make copies and everything EFTA00114757 61 62 1 of stuff, of his file. That's what they 2 wanted. Copies of his file and stuff like 3 that. And they was asking us where his file 4 was. 5 : Which file was that? 6 : And stuff, Epstein's file. 7 : Yeah, what type of a 8 file? 9 : It's just a regular generated 10 R&O file. It just has his remand in there. 11 You probably already have a copy of it. His 12 remand, and fingerprint card has pictures in 13 there, and stuff like that. That's all it is. 14 : But nothing to do with 15 the file that was actually in the SHU for, 16 like, his feeding and his (Indiscernible 17 *00:38:11) or anything like that? 18 : No. No. We don't get any of 19 that. 20 : Okay. 21 : Huh-uh. 22 : Do you know anything 23 about that being destroyed or anything? 24 : No. 25 : No? 1 : No. 2 : Were you in the SHU at 3 all at that time? 4 : No. 5 : No? Okay. What about on 6 the 9th? Were you in the SHU at all? 7 : No. 8 : Okay. 9 : Huh-uh. No. Huh-uh. Cause I 10 don't think they would let us up there. I 11 wouldn't have went anyhow. 12 That's not important. 13 This one was an email we got. It said, please 14 join Human Resources Executive Staff in 15 congratulating (Phonetic Sp. 16 *00:38:40) Utilities Program Manager on his 17 selection to General Foreman here at the MCC 18 New York. This was on Monday, August 5, 2019. 19 Do you know if he started that date, or if that 20 was just saying he was selected for it, and 21 startiiiiiiiillater date? 22 : Usually, it's just, he is 23 selected for that date. He is selected. They 24 just ut out that he is selected. That's it. 25 : But he wasn't actually 63 1 the General Foreman yet? 2 : I don't think he was. I don't 3 think I wouldn't know. 4 : Okay. 5 : But usually, they do put out 6 emails, saying congratulations, but you don't 7 start on that da . 8 Perfect. 9 Huh-uh. 10 : Thank you. And this is 11 one that was from 12 10, 2019 to ou sent on Suniiiiiiigust . Who is 13 : He's Executive Assistant. 14 This is his office. 15 : Okay. 16 : Uh-huh. Uh-huh. 17 : It says, "Wellness 18 Checks." 19 : Yes. 20 : It says, "Good afternoon. 21 On 08-17-2019, called Officer Thomas -- 22 : Yes. 23 : -- at 2 p.m. No answer. 24 Left a message. On 08-17, called Officer Noel 25 at 2:02 p.m. No answer. Left a message." And 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 64 then it says, "On 08-18-2019, called Officer Thomas at 1 p.m., no answer. Left a message. On 08-18-2019, called Officer Noel at 1:03 p.m., the phone went to voicemail, left a messaiiii iiiiithat what part of your duties -- : Duty Officer. I was the Duty Officer for that week. And what does that mean? : Duty Officer is, like, when the Warden and everybody is not here, I, and afterhours, anything that happens, they report to me as the Dut Officer. S:You're, like, the Warden? Almost. Yeah, almost, afterhours, but I still got to report everything to the, who is the ID that is underneath me, and that would be one of the AW's, and then the report to the Warden. : So, alig , he is over the Duty Officer, so he asked me and I guess other people that was the Duty Officer to call and do a Wellness Check on them. Did you ever speak with them? EFTA00114758 65 66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 : Nope. : No? : Huh-uh. : So, just called. Never got to -- lust called. Never. Huh-uh. : Okay. So, did you ever speak to them about this matter, ever? : No. Never. : Neither Thomas nor Noel? : No. Huh-uh. : Okay. Have you seen them? No. : Okay. Any, do you know anything about the matter with regards to Thomas and Noel? : I just know that they was up in SHU at the time when Epstein, and everything happened with E stein. That's all I know. : Okay. Did you hear anything about, like, not doing counts or SIM rounds or an thing like that? Yeah, I heard that. : Does that surprise you? 1 : Yeah. 2 : It does? 3 : Yeah. Cause that's 4 Corrections 101. You're supposed to do your 5 rounds. 6 : Okay. But does, had you 7 heard of anybody not doing it prior to that 8 time? 9 : No. Huh-uh. 10 : No? Okay. Do you have 11 any reason to believe that they did or did not 12 do rounds or counts? 13 : I wouldn't know, cause