4 DIGITALLY RECORDED

1 2 3 4 DIGITALLY RECORDED 5 SWORN STATEMENT 6 OF 7 8 9 OIG CASE #: 10 2019-010614 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 19 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 20 JULY 20, 2021 21 22 23 24 25 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00115159 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 4 BY: 5 BY: 6 7 8 WITNESS: 9 10 11 12 OTHER APPEARANCES: 13 NONE 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00115160 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : This is Special Agent 2 Today is Thursday, July 15, 2021. The 3 time is 4:03 p.m. and I've turned on the 4 recorder. My name is , I'm a 5 Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 6 Justice, Office of Inspector General, New York 7 Field Office and these are my credentials. 8 MS. : Okay. 9 MR. : This interview is with the 10 Federal Bureau of Prisons Correctional Officer 11 and this interview is being conducted as 12 part of an official U.S. Department of Justice, 13 Office of Inspector General investigation. 14 Today is July 15, 2021. The time is 4:04 p.m. 15 This interview is being conducted at the 16 Metropolitan Correctional Center located at 150 17 Park Road. We are in the Executive Assistant's 18 office. Also present is DOJ OIG Senior Special 19 Agent and CO . This 20 interview will be recorded by me, Special Agent 21 . Could everyone please identify 22 themselves for the record and spell your last 23 name. To start, I am DOJ OIG Special Agent 24 25 MR. : I'm Senior Special Agent EFTA00115161 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 1 also 2 with the DOJ OIG. 3 MR. : Can you please state your 4 first and last name? 5 MR. : Oh, and these are my 6 credentials just so you do know. 7 MS. : Okay. I'm Correctional 8 Systems Officers S. with 9 the Federal Bureau of Prisons, Department of 10 Justice. 11 MR. : This is an official DOJ OIG 12 investigation into the death of inmate Jeffery 13 Epstein and the surrounding circumstances. You 14 are being asked to voluntarily provide answers 15 to our questions. Will you agree to a 16 voluntary interview with the DOJ OIG? 17 MS. : Yes. 18 MR. : Please review DOJ OIG form 3- 19 226/2. The form basically states, "United 20 States Department of Justice, Office of 21 Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances to 22 Employee Requested to Provide Information on a 23 Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to 24 provide information as part of an investigation 25 being conducted by the Office of Inspector EFTA00115162 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 1 General. This investigation is being conducted 2 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, 3 as amended. The investigation pertains to job 4 performance failure and security failure." 5 It's in general. It has nothing to do with you 6 directly, it's in general, the investigation 7 we're doing. "This is a voluntary interview. 8 Accordingly, you do not have to answer 9 questions. No disciplinary action will be 10 taken against you if you choose not to answer 11 questions. Any statement you furnish may be 12 used as evidence in any future criminal 13 proceedings or agency disciplinary proceedings 14 or both." The waiver states, "I understand the 15 warnings and assurances stated above and I am 16 willing to make a statement and answer 17 questions. No promises or threats have been 18 made to me or no pressure or coercion of any 19 kind has been used against me." Please review 20 the document and let me know if you understand. 21 If you do understand, please sign the document 22 where it says, "Employee signature," and print 23 your name. 24 MR. : And just for the record, 25 it doesn't basically state what you just said, EFTA00115163 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 6 1 it actually states everything that you just 2 read. 3 MR. : It states that. I used the 4 word "basically states," I shouldn't have said 5 that. 6 MS. : Okay. And I sign at employee 7 sig-. 8 MR. : It says, "Employee 9 signature," and print your name right below 10 there. 11 MR. : Oh, do you have any 12 questions on that before we go, just you can 13 totally ask (Indiscernible *00:03:35) . 14 MS. : Okay. No. 15 MR. : Just, I mean, the long 16 and -- 17 MS. : Date and time? 18 MR. : -- short of it is 19 MR. : I'll put it in there. 20 MR. we can do that. But 21 then just the long and short of it is, it's 22 voluntary. You do not have to answer 23 questions. You can leave at any time. 24 MS. : Okay. 25 MR. : That's the purpose, for EFTA00115164 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 you just to -. 2 MR. : So you understand the form 3 and agree to the form. 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : This is Special Agent 6 I'm signing on the signature of the Office of 7 Inspector General, Special Agent. 8 MR. : This is Special Agent 9 . I'll be signing as the 10 witness, printing my name as a witness, 11 entering the date and time as July 15, 2021 at 12 4:07 p.m. and the place MCC New York. 13 MR. : Before starting the 14 interview, I'd like to place you under oath. 15 Ms. , can you please raise your right 16 hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and 17 nothing but the truth during this interview? 18 MS. : I do. 19 MR. : Please - you can put your 20 hand down. 21 MS. : Oh, okay. 22 MR. : Please let me know if you 23 don't understand my questions and I'll try to 24 repeat it or try to rephrase it for you. 25 MS. : Okay. EFTA00115165 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 8 1 MR. : I want to again, clarify this 2 interview is specifically regarding inmate 3 Jeffrey Epstein on August 9th and 10th, 2019. 4 I'm going to go through some background 5 questions. What is your current home address? 6 MS. : My current home address? 7 MR. : Yes. 8 MS. : Why is that relevant for 9 this? 10 MR. : As part of our investi-. 11 MR. : You don't have to provide 12 that. 13 MS. : Oh yeah, I don't want to -- 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MS. : -- give my address. 16 MR. : If you have anything - 17 any kind of, like a FIX, card you can show us 18 just so we can verify who it is that you are? 19 MS. : You know what? I left it at 20 my desk. 21 MR. : That's okay. Do you mind 22 providing us your date of birth and your last 23 four of your social security number? 24 MS. : Yes. is my date 25 of birth and last four of my social, EFTA00115166 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 9 1 MR. : What is your highest level of 2 education? 3 MS. : Master's degree. 4 MR. : Okay. In what? 5 MS. : Inspector General 6 investigations, fraud, abuse of correction, 7 organizational assessment and monitoring. 8 MR. : You know more about this 9 stuff than us then. 10 MR. : Which college? 11 MS. : John J. 12 MR. : And what about bachelors? 13 MS. : My bachelors was correctional 14 administration. 15 MR. : What did you do prior to 16 working for the BOP? 17 MR. : Ask her about where this 18 stuff was and when she got these degrees. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MS. : I got my masters in 2017. 21 got my BA in I believe 2006. 22 MR. : Also from John J.? 23 MS. : Yes. 24 MR. : Okay. And what - so prior to 25 working for the BOP, what did you do? EFTA00115167 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : Juvenile corrections. 2 MR. : Where? 3 MS. : Virginia. 4 MR. : Is that with the state? 5 City? 6 MS. : Yeah. State Department of 7 Juvenile Justice. 8 MR. : Was that directly before the 9 BOP? 10 MS. : Yes. 11 MR. : What years? I you don't 12 recall -. 13 MR. : They can be approximate. 14 MR. : Estimate, yeah. 15 MS. : Approximately, I think 2006 16 or `07 to 2009, when I started here. 17 MR. : Okay. Do you have any 18 military service? 19 MS. : No. 20 MR. : And how long have you served 21 with the Federal Bureau of Prisons? 22 MS. : Approximately now, 2009, 2019 23 is 10 years, 20, 21, going on 11 and a half 24 years. 25 MR. : Eleven and a half years? And EFTA00115168 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 when was your enter on duty date? 2 MS. : 9/13/2009. 3 MR. : When did you graduate from 4 BOP training? 5 MS. : I don't remember that. I 6 don't -. 7 MR. : When did you begin your 8 career here at MCC? 9 MS. : March of 2011. 10 MR. : And what was your position at 11 that point? 12 MS. : Correctional Officer. 13 MR. : What is your composition? 14 MS. : Correctional Systems Officer. 15 MR. : And what's your regular 16 schedule right now? 17 MS. : 12:00 to 8:00 Monday through 18 Friday. 19 MR. : Do you -. 20 MR. : What does your position 21 entail? What is that? 22 MS. : Receiving and discharge, 23 movement. I deal with state risk, federal 24 risk, detainers, pending charges, warrants, 25 what else? EFTA00115169 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 12 1 MR. : And that's outside of 2 custody? 3 MS. : Yes. 4 MR. : Okay. What is your grade 5 level? 6 MS. : GS-8. 7 MR. : Eight? Okay. 8 MS. : Uh-huh. 9 MR. : What was your position on 10 August 9th and 10th, 2019? 11 MS. : I was a Correctional Systems 12 Officer, but I was working overtime in custody. 13 What a minutes. I don't even know what day 14 that is. 15 MR. : August 9th is a Friday. 16 MS. : Uh-huh. 17 MR. : And August 10th is Saturday. 18 I can provide you the dailies and the roster 19 MS. : And what -. 20 MR. : -- for the MCC -- 21 MS. : Okay. 22 MR. -- and that's for August 9th 23 and 10th. If you look at it, you'll be able to 24 25 MR. : And provide her -- EFTA00115170 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : This is two -. 2 MR. : -- provide her also her 3 timesheet. 4 MR. : Yes. Is this your timesheet 5 for the same time period? 6 MR. : Show her the columns 7 (Indiscernible *00:08:55) . 8 MS. : Okay. 9 MR. : It's (Indiscernible 10 *00:08:58) . 11 MS. : I normally write everything 12 on a calendar, but looks like my timesheet. 13 MR. : So, the timesheet is for 14 August 4th all the way to August 17th. For the 15 9th, where does this timesheet show that you 16 worked? 17 MS. : This - it doesn't show where 18 you're working, it just shows the hours you've 19 worked. 20 MR. : Is it coded under a certain 21 entry? 22 MR. : Well just ask her, do you 23 know by looking at these documents, do you know 24 where on August 9th and August 10th you were 25 working? This is not an, "I got you," EFTA00115171 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 1 whatsoever. Just like, do you recall on August 2 9th(Indiscernible *00:10:03) working? 3 MS. : Well, I know that this is a 4 custody overtime code for the overtime sheets. 5 So this is -. 6 MR. : If it doesn't state, that's 7 okay. 8 MS. : It's possible, because I do 9 I was working a lot of overtime, so. But I 10 can't recall off the top of my head. But I 11 know I did work the evening of the Epstein 12 situation, so. 13 MR. : When you say "evening."? 14 MS. : The morning he hung himself. 15 MR. : Okay. So according to the 16 August 10th schedule, find yourself on the 17 schedule? 18 MS. : Uh-huh. 19 MR. : What were you listed for? 20 MS. : Control one. 21 MR. : Control one. Okay. Do you 22 recall being interviewed by - recall 23 interviewing with the OIG regarding the Epstein 24 investigation in 2019? 25 MS. : I remember being interviewed, EFTA00115172 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 yes. 2 MR. : Okay. What I have is a 3 summary off a report written by the FBI. Was 4 the FBI also present? 5 MS. : Yes. 6 MR. : We did get a copy of it 7 because OIG was present for the interview also. 8 I'm going to read a portion of the interview 9 record for you. 10 MR. : Does it state when she 11 worked on August 9 and 10? That might help 12 clarify things. 13 MR. : For the 10th it does. And 14 so, I'm going to read it. As I read through 15 it, it's just summary for the record. Please 16 tell me if there's any corrections and let me 17 know -- 18 MS. : Okay. 19 MR. and we'll address it. 20 "Control's duties including monitoring the 21 activity on the ranges, answering calls from 22 COs, replying on the radio and opening doors." 23 MS. : Monitoring - you - at that 24 time, we didn't have cameras on the ranges so 25 you could only see the center, which is like, EFTA00115173 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 16 1 they consider it the MPA, multi -purpose area of 2 the unit. You are not able to see down the 3 actual ranges of the units, so no. I wouldn't 4 say, "The ranges," I would say, "The multi - 5 purpose area." 6 MR. : Multi -purpose area of the 7 ranges. "And ," did I pronounce it 8 right? 9 MS. : Uh-huh. 10 MR. . stated that no one is 11 really moving anywhere within the institution. 12 A count sheet is called the E-1 and it is 13 printed off from the internal MCC system called 14 SENTRY. Control validates all respondent 15 numbers from the head counts and marks an X on 16 the E-1 sheet to confirm the count. This 17 happens for every check of every unit. E-ls 18 are supplemented with count slips that are 19 properly filled out and stapled to the E-1 20 timesheet. Once all head count numbers are 21 verified to be correct, everything is 22 documented, recorded and then considered to be 23 a good count. began her shift on August 24 10th at 12:00 midnight to 8:00 a.m. 25 stated that Lieutenant took care of EFTA00115174 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 1 the 12 o'clock that day." I'm going to pause 2 right there. I'm going to ask you a question. 3 Do you recall coming on shift that day? 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : Do you recall the first count 6 would be at 12:00 midnight? 7 MS. : Yes. 8 MR. : And were you in Control when 9 the count happened? 10 MS. : Yes. 11 MR. : Who took the count? 12 MS. : I don't remember at that 13 time. I don't remember all this time ago, but 14 if I said the Lieutenant took the count at that 15 time, then that's who took the count, because 16 every Lieutenant is required to take a count, 17 one count per shift. 18 MR. : But you don't recall the 19 exact situation -. 20 MR. : I think what he's asking 21 was, was Lieutenant in the Control 22 with you? 23 MS. : At some point in time, yes, 24 she was. 25 MR. : So if she was taking the EFTA00115175 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 1 count, does that mean that she's doing from 2 Control? 3 MS. : Yes, she's doing it from 4 Control. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : Okay. recalled that 7 CO Thomas -" - and this says CO Noel, but is 8 that Noel? 9 MS. : Noel. 10 MR. "CO Noel worked in the SHU on 11 the day of the incident. stated that 12 Noel was fairly new. stated that she 13 does not pay specific attention to just one 14 individual screen during her shifts since so 15 much is going on. stated that extension 16 is a number that is called for reporting 17 the count. If a Lieutenant is on the unit for 18 the count, then this is when it is considered a 19 watch call. On the 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. 20 watch calls, ran the counts. 21 recalled that the SHU called in the count of 22 the day and that the count was accurate. 23 does not recall who called in the count 24 from the SHU but recalled that the number was 25 72. stated that there are folders that EFTA00115176 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 are filed that are compiled with count 2 verification timesheets for every day of the 3 calendar year." 4 MS. : That is correct. 5 MR. : So I asked you, on August 6 10th, you said you worked at midnight in 7 Control. 8 MS. : Yes. 9 MR. : Do you recall if you worked 10 on August 9th? 11 MS. : I probably did. I don't 12 recall that, this far from now to then, but I 13 probably most likely worked that day and if 14 it's on the roster and it's on my timesheet, 15 most likely, yes. 16 MR. : But you wouldn't happen to 17 recall if you worked in internal or R&D? 18 MS. : I know I worked R&D because 19 that's my regular position and Custody, 20 anything I did in Custody would be considered 21 overtime for me. 22 MR. : Okay. So, on August 9th, by 23 based on that, it wouldn't tell - would the 24 (Indiscernible *00:15:16) . 25 MS. : It did say overtime. It did EFTA00115177 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 1 say overtime in internal. 2 MR. : But internal is not - is that 3 the same as R&D? 4 MS. : No. R&D, this is 5 Correctional Services. R&D is Correctional 6 Systems. Those are two different departments. 7 This is custody and R&D is non-custody. 8 MR. : So by this, were you in 9 custody? 10 MS. : Yes. I was there. 11 MR. : Okay. So you were working in 12 internal, not in R&D. 13 MS. : Yes. 14 MR. : Okay. Do you recall who your 15 supervisor was when you worked at the MCC on 16 August 9th and 10th? 17 MS. : I would only know by looking 18 at this roster. , Lieutenant 19 MR. : So you report only to 20 or do you report to any other COs 21 MS. : No, she's the only supervisor 22 on duty during that time. 23 MR. : During the night. And so 24 both days it was midnight to 8:00 a.m. 25 MS. : Yes. EFTA00115178 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. Was she also a 2 supervisor? 3 MS. : Yes. 4 MR. : Are you familiar with inmate 5 Jeffrey Epstein? 6 MS. : Yes. 7 MR. : Did Jeffrey Epstein have a 8 cell mate? 9 MS. : Yes, he did. 10 MR. : Do you know who it was? 11 MS. : I don't know, but I know the 12 inmate went out to court I believe Friday and 13 he didn't come back from court. I don't know 14 if he got released from court, but he didn't 15 come back to the institution that day. 16 MR. : How do you know that? 17 MS. : Because I work in R&D. 18 MR. : So, is this from your 19 knowledge from working in R&D that day or on a 20 later date? 21 MS. : My knowledge of working in 22 R&D that day. 23 MR. : So that's - okay. Because 24 according to this, you were in R&D -- 25 MS. : I was in R&D. EFTA00115179 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : I mean, you're in 2 internal. 3 MS. : Right. But this is midnight. 4 My hours in R&D is from 12:00 to 8:00. 5 MR. : 12:00 to 8:00? So you did 6 work later in the shift -- 7 MS. : Right. 8 MR. so that (Indiscernible 9 *00:16:56) be on the schedule at all. You're 10 not going to be on this roster. It's not going 11 to show you as 12:00 to 8:00. 12 MS. : Custody has a different 13 roster from my department roster. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MS. : So you're not going to see my 16 department. My department hours would be that 17 - what you see on that timesheet and this is 18 considered overtime. So anything here, where 19 it says, "Additional," this is overtime because 20 you see the two shifts, the eight up here and 21 the eight at the bottom. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MS. : And that's 16 hours for the 24 day. 25 MR. : So I'm going to go back and EFTA00115180 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 clarify. On August 9th, you worked from 2 midnight to 8:00 a.m. 3 MS. : Uh-huh. 4 MR. : -- and you were in internal. 5 MS. : Yes. 6 MR. : And then after that, what was 7 your next shift? 8 MS. : That was Saturday, the next 9 day. That would be midnight the next night. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MS. : These are all midnight 12 shifts. 13 MR. : Midnight shifts. But did you 14 work regular shifts those days? August 9th and 15 10th? 16 MS. : In my department? 17 MR. : Yeah, in R&D. 18 MS. : If it's a Friday and a 19 Thursday or a Friday and a Saturday. A 20 Saturday, I wouldn't be in my department, no. 21 MR. : What about Friday? 22 MS. : Friday I'm in my department, 23 yes, because my department is Monday through 24 Friday. 25 MR. : And what's your regular time? EFTA00115181 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 1 MS. : 12:00 to 8:00. I believe I 2 was working 12:00 to 8:00. I'm not sure. 3 MR. : That's midnight to 8:00, 4 right? But midnight to 8:00 -. 5 MS. : No, no, no, 12:00 p.m. in the 6 afternoon -- 7 MR. : 12:00 p.m. to 8:00. 8 MS. to 8:00 p.m. 9 MR. : To 8:00 p.m. So, according 10 to this, you were in internal from - on August 11 9th, from midnight to 8:00 a.m., then there was 12 a four hour break? Are you saying there was a 13 four hour break and then you worked from -. 14 MS. : I'm not sure right here based 15 on this because I might have been working 2:00 16 to 10:00 because I had to do 12:00 8:00 p.m. or 17 2:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MS. : So, based on this, this says, 20 "Regular base." This might have been from the 21 day shift because this says, "Regular base," so 22 this might have been, I worked midnight to 8:00 23 in the morning and then maybe 8:00 to 4:00 in 24 my department because I don't see no - well, I 25 don't record my duty hours in my department at EFTA00115182 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 that time. 2 MR. : It's been a while. 3 MS. : I'm sorry. Yeah. 4 MR. : But to follow up though, 5 you said that you knew that Epstein's cell mate 6 had left because you were working in R&D, so 7 you probably want to follow up -- 8 MR. : Yeah. So -. 9 MR. : -- with that. 10 MS. : So we key inmates in and out 11 to court. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : So that - so, Reyes, how did 14 you first come to learn that he left? 15 MS. : Because we have to key them 16 out to go to court. I mean, I don't know 17 actually at that moment that he was Epstein's 18 cell mate, but when the comment came up that 19 his bunkie, they moved his bunkie, they put him 20 in a cell by himself, and when we learned who 21 that specific inmate was, that's how I became 22 aware that, no, this guy went to court and he 23 was released from court, wherever he got 24 removed to. Never came back from court. 25 MR. : What do you mean they moved EFTA00115183 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 1 his bunkie to a separate cell? 2 MS. : They kept saying Epstein was 3 put in a cell by himself, he didn't have a cell 4 mate. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MS. : That was not the case, he did 7 have a cell mate, but he got released from 8 court or wherever it is the Marshals took him 9 to, that he didn't come back to MCC. But off 10 the top to say I knew that that was actually 11 his cell mate, I didn't know that until we 12 became aware of who the inmate was that got 13 released and went to court, because we don't 14 know who inmate's cell mates are just by 15 working in R&D, we just know their bed 16 assignment and what unit they're coming from. 17 MR. : No, working the R&D, are you 18 familiar with something called the court list? 19 MS. : Yes. 20 MR. : Was inmate Reyes's name on 21 the court list? 22 MS. : Yes. 23 MR. : Do you recall? 24 MS. : Yeah. Because I think that's 25 the guy we keyed out to court. EFTA00115184 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 1 MR. : Okay. And what is a court 2 list? 3 MS. : A court list is something we 4 get from the Marshals. They'll send us over 5 just a roster of names of inmates to appear for 6 production to the court either going out on a 7 RIT (Phonetic Sp. *00:21:13), being transferred 8 to another jail. A court list consists of 9 whatever type of movement that the Marshals 10 want the inmates for. It could be appearing 11 before a proffer to tell on somebody, it could 12 just be whatever it is that they need them to 13 appear for the court production for. 14 MR. : How do the Marshals send it 15 over? 16 MS. : They always email it or fax 17 it. 18 MR. : Who receives the email? 19 MS. : Everybody in R&D. 20 MR. : Do you recall who was working 21 in R&D that day? 22 MS. : No. 23 MR. : Everybody receives it. 24 MS. : Yeah, everybody in R&D 25 receives it, but I couldn't say off the -- EFTA00115185 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 1 MR. : Yeah. 2 MS. : -- top of my head, "Oh, this 3 person worked," I don't remember who worked 4 with me that day. 5 MR. : So everybody that 6 actually is in R&D, you all get that same 7 MS. : Yeah. 8 MR. : -- court sheet, so it 9 doesn't matter who was working that day or not. 10 MS. : Right. 11 MR. : Everybody would have 12 gotten it. 13 MS. : Uh-huh. 14 MR. : Do you recall receiving that 15 email? 16 MS. : I don't recall receiving the 17 email, but I know we had a court list. 18 MR. : Who creates that court list? 19 MS. : Whoever is doing movement. 20 MR. : Okay. And what - so you just 21 mentioned all the inmates that's listed on 22 there anything for movement and the Marshals 23 send it over -- 24 MS. : Uh-huh. 25 MR. : -- and they email it. Aral EFTA00115186 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 what do you get? 2 MR. : Email or fax you said, 3 right? 4 MS. : Email or fax. 5 MR. : Or fax. 6 MR. : Is it (Indiscernible 7 *00:22:21) -. 8 MS. : Well, I believe they were 9 doing both email and faxing at that time. 10 MR. : So you get both. 11 MS. : Uh-huh. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : And once the list comes over, 14 and who did you say creates the court list? 15 MS. : The movement officer and if 16 the movement officer is not there, whoever is 17 filling in, it might be somebody in the front 18 desk. Just whoever is in the department, 19 they'll fill out the - complete the court list, 20 put it on a call out and get it prepared so 21 overnight, the officer who is internal can pass 22 it out to the housing unit so the inmates are 23 aware when they wake up the next day or the 24 officer can say, "Hey, I got this inmate, I've 25 got to get him ready for court the next day." EFTA00115187 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 1 MR. : Who is the movement officer? 2 MS. : I don't know if - I don't 3 know who was the movement officer at that time. 4 I don't know. 5 MR. : Okay. When do the -. 6 MR. : When you say a movement 7 officer, are you talking about control? 8 MS. : No. 9 MR. : I mean internal? 10 MS. : No. R&D. 11 MR. : R&D movement officer? 12 MS. : We have different position 13 yeah. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MS. : We have different positions 16 in R&D where everybody had a different 17 function. 18 MR. : Okay. So is the movement 19 officer in R&D basically like will go into 20 internal with (Indiscernible *00:23:21)? 21 MS. : No, they are - they are like, 22 they prepare the transfer orders if inmates are 23 moving out of the -- 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MS. -- institution. EFTA00115188 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : So they're doing the 2 background of what the internal guy does 3 almost. 4 MS. : They don't have anything to 5 do with internal. 6 MR. : Okay. Because - okay. 7 Sorry. 8 MS. : It's - no. 9 MR. : I'm making more things 10 more (Indiscernible *00:23:38) . 11 MS. : Nothing to do with internal. 12 It's just preparing inmates to move out of the 13 institution, preparing the production list for 14 inmates to - for a unit - for a list to be 15 disseminated to the housing units for the 16 officers to know what inmate has to appear in 17 court the next day. The movement officer might 18 draft up a - get a compile, like a medical 19 summary, transit order, anything that they need 20 to put together for an inmate to be released to 21 move out of the institution to be transferred. 22 That's what the movement officer does. 23 MR. : Great. 24 MR. : Do you recall what your 25 position was in the R&D that day? EFTA00115189 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : I might have been R&D. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MS. : I might have been R&D. I 4 don't believe I was movement but I might have 5 been R&D. 6 MR. : So as R&D, what would you 7 take care of? 8 MS. : Court movement, inmates going 9 in and out, keying them in and out, getting 10 inmates down to my area to get prepared for 11 court, tracking inmates going out to the 12 hospital, keying inmates going out to the 13 hospital, keying inmates coming back. 14 Basically, I would be responsible for like 15 inmates leaving in and out of the institution 16 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. : -- and preparing them to get 19 out of the institution. 20 MR. : We can take a step back. 21 When did the Marshals list normally come over: 22 Do they send it over the night before? 23 MS. : Yes. 24 MR. : Evening before or they send 25 it the morning of? EFTA00115190 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : The evening before. 2 MR. : Around what time? 3 MS. : I think it's always around 4 it's approximately between, I would say, maybe 5 3:00 and 5:00 or - yeah, between like 3:00 and 6 5:00, something like that. 7 MR. : Okay. And -. 8 MS. : Around that time frame. It's 9 not like a set time, it's whoever does it and 10 faxes it over and emails it. But it was about 11 maybe between 3:00 and 5:00 or 3:00 and 6:00, 12 something like that. 13 MR. : And then once R&D receives 14 it, you guys prepare a court list. 15 MS. : Uh-huh. 16 MR. : And what does it state on the 17 court list? 18 MS. : It's just a document, like a 19 SENTRY created document that show the inmate's 20 name, his housing unit, if he has a separatee 21 (Phonetic Sp. *00:25:49) in the institution and 22 what time he has to come down to R&D to move 23 out for court, whether it be that he has court 24 in the a.m. or court in the p.m. 25 MR. : Okay. And would it state, EFTA00115191 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 1 like, let's say if an inmate was leaving and 2 not coming back, would it state on there? 3 MS. : Yeah, it would say, "WAB," 4 but most often times, pre-trial is - because 5 they're not our inmates, they're Marshals 6 inmates, the Marshals can move them at any 7 given time and just forward us back a 8 disposition of the inmate leaving. "Inmate so 9 and so was released to Probation. Here's a cut 10 slip for you guys, file -" - then we can go 11 ahead and key them out. But we don't key 12 inmates out WAB if they're going out to court. 13 We key them out - at that time, we were doing 14 what was considered an out count. We weren't 15 keying inmates out, we were keying them on an 16 out count so we know that we have an account of 17 who went out to court and we have an account of 18 who came back from court. 19 MR. : So are you saying that you 20 guys wouldn't remove the inmate completely from 21 the count, you would just leave them under the 22 out count? 23 MS. : Yes. We would only remove 24 him if prior to that list, when we got the 25 list, it says, "Transferred WAB, we're sending EFTA00115192 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 1 him somewhere to Brooklyn or he's going back to 2 the state," that night before we would know 3 that. But sometimes at the spur of the moment, 4 things might arise, a judge might give a person 5 time served, he might commit him to drug 6 treatment program, Probation might come and 7 pick him up. It could be a number of things 8 that take place at court that it might be just 9 a regular court proceeding but then he gets 10 released and he doesn't come back to the 11 institution. 12 MR. : Do you recall seeing inmate 13 Efrain Reyes's name on that list? 14 MS. : If he was on that list at 15 that time, then I've seen it, but I don't 16 recall now, speaking now, but at that time, 17 yeah, if his name was on the list, yes. 18 MR. : Do you recall if his - I know 19 you said you don't recall, but by any chance, 20 would you have known if he left WAB? What does 21 WAB stand for? 22 MS. : With all belonging, meaning 23 they're being transferred either to an air 24 lift, transferred to another BOP, transferred 25 to another state institution, that the Marshals EFTA00115193 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 will be transferring them to. 2 MR. : And you don't recall if he 3 do you recall if his name was on as WAB on that 4 list? 5 MS. : No. I don't recall that. 6 MR. : Okay. We'll come back in a 7 little bit. The court list that you guys 8 create, who does that get sent to? 9 MS. : It doesn't get sent to - it 10 gets sent to the unit officers. We don't email 11 it out, we make hard copies and the internal 12 officer comes around at night and he gives one 13 to each housing unit. 14 MR. : Around what time? 15 MS. : Depending on - any time 16 during from midnight to 8:00 in the morning. 17 They have up until to give out that. But most 18 likely, no later than 5:00 a.m., after the 5 19 o'clock count because at that time, that's when 20 the institution is opening up after the 5:00 21 a.m. count, then the inmates will have their 22 breakfast and start preparing for whatever it 23 is their day entails. 24 MR. : Do you recall working that 25 morning in R&D and seeing inmate Reyes come EFTA00115194 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 down? 2 MS. : I don't remember. 3 MR. : Okay. And when the list is 4 sent up to the units, what do they do with it? 5 MS. : The unit officers take it and 6 he views it and it just tells him who on his 7 unit has court that day. 8 MR. : Is a copy of that list 9 maintained anywhere? 10 MR. : By R&D. 11 MR. : R&D. 12 MS. : No. Because -- 13 MR. : Where do we get it? 14 MS. : -- once we - once that list 15 is done of the day, we just shred it, we don't 16 need it. 17 MR. : What about what's used to 18 - it sounds like create the list from the 19 Marshals, can we get - can we go back to emails 20 from August 8th, I guess it would be, to get 21 that court list from August 9th? 22 MS. : If it's still in the system, 23 yeah, you would still - you would be able to 24 see it, yeah. 25 MR. : And you said at that EFTA00115195 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 38 1 time, they're both fax and email so any single 2 person we could just grab an email from them if 3 it was archived? 4 MS. : Uh-huh. If it's still, you 5 know, in the system, but we don't normally keep 6 court lists. Once we done for that day, 7 everything gets shredded and we start fresh for 8 the next day. So we don't hold onto court 9 lists. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MS. : Just something we never did. 12 The only thing we hold onto is transfer orders, 13 people that transferred out, like -. 14 MR. : So for instance, with 15 Reyes - when you say "transfer order," does 16 that also mean released or is that just 17 transferred to a different institution? 18 MS. : Transferred to a different 19 institution -- 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MS. : -- because if he got released 22 or he got a disposition, that would be 23 something we would place in his file, why he 24 got released. You know you got to have 25 something to show that why you released this EFTA00115196 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 1 inmate, that we didn't just let him walk out 2 the door, we have this document from the 3 Marshals why we released him. 4 MR. : So would Reyes have 5 file like that? 6 MS. : If it's not sent to archives 7 and this is 2021, his file would be - his file 8 is probably archived now. 9 MR. : even thought it's like - 10 my understanding was like August 9th everything 11 was going to be, like, preserved August 9th and 12 10th. Do you know if that would create it not 13 actually be archived but actually still 14 maintained somewhere? 15 MS. : You would have to get with 16 SIS, I don't know. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. : I don't know. I don't know. 19 MR. : Do you know if that court 20 list is used to update the daily log? 21 MS. : What do you mean? 22 MR. : Do you know what a daily log 23 is? 24 MR. : Show her. 25 MR. : Have you ever seen that? EFTA00115197 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : Uh-huh. This is 2 MR. : Is that -. 3 MS. -- 38. 4 MR. : It's a what? 5 MS. : We call this a PP38. 6 MR. PP38. 7 MS. : It just tracks movement of 8 who went out the institution, who went from 9 what unit to what unit, who got keyed out. 10 This is what this is. It just tracks all the 11 movement for that day. 12 MR. : Can you flip to the third 13 page for inmate Efrain Reyes. You see next to 14 it it says, "Pre-remove." Do you know what 15 that means? 16 MS. : Uh-huh. That means he was 17 removed from the institution. 18 MR. : Does that mean there's a 19 possibility that the Marshals list came over 20 MS. : Uh-huh. 21 MR. -- with him as a WAB? 22 MS. : Possibility. Yeah. 23 MR. : What else could it - why else 24 would you list an inmate as pre-remove? 25 MS. : We don't list them as pre- EFTA00115198 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 remove, we just key him out as pre-remove. 2 MR. : So he was keyed out at that 3 point. 4 MS. : Uh-huh. 5 MR. : And what time was it keyed 6 out, do you know? 7 MS. : 8:38. Uh-huh. 8 MR. : And he wouldn't be - if 9 person is going to court, what would it be 10 listed as? 11 MS. : If he's going to court on 12 this, you wouldn't see - at that time, you 13 wouldn't see that he went to court. You would 14 have to run an out count to show who was keyed 15 out to court. So, you wouldn't be able to see 16 that on this because this just tracks who came 17 into the institution, who left the institution 18 and what housing units they were transferred 19 from, whether they came out of SHU or they went 20 to SHU or they got moved from one unit, housing 21 unit, to another housing unit or if they're - 22 say an inmate got sentenced, this would show 23 you that he might have went from a A-pre, 24 meaning a pre-trial inmate to a hold, he might 25 have pled guilty so now he's longer a pre-trial EFTA00115199 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 1 and he's waiting sentencing. So this would 2 just show you stuff like that. Or he became a 3 designated inmate and he's a BOP inmate. 4 MR. : How would you be able to see 5 the difference between an inmate that just left 6 for court and was coming back and an inmate 7 that left? 8 MR. : Or WAS. 9 MR. : WAB. 10 MS. : On this? 11 MR. : Yeah. Can you? 12 MS. : Yeah, you could just see - 13 well, you don't know, you just know that they 14 were pre-removed. So you don't know, looking 15 at this, why they were pre-removed. 16 MR. : So I guess what he means 17 though, is if someone is just going to court 18 and didn't go to court WAB versus someone who 19 went to court WAB, would they be coded 20 differently on that? 21 MS. : No. 22 MR. : At all? 23 MS. : At that time, we weren't - if 24 the inmate went to court and he was a WAB, we 25 would key him out pre-remove or hold-remove. EFTA00115200 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 1 So yes, but - I'm trying to think, what did you 2 just say. Say it again. 3 MR. : So I guess, is there a 4 differentiation, if someone is WAB, are they 5 coded as pre-remove if they're just going to 6 court and they don't have WAB next to their 7 name on that form, would it just say something 8 different, like "Court?" 9 MS. : No, you wouldn't see WAB on 10 this form. You -. 11 MR. : No, no, no, I'm not 12 saying like you would see WAB on that form -- 13 MS. : Uh-huh. 14 MR. : I'm just saying like, 15 if an inmate goes to court, are they always 16 listed as pre-remove? 17 MS. : No, they'd be hold to move. 18 MR. : And what's the 19 difference? So is it either pre-remove or 20 hold-remove? 21 MS. : Or bail bond. 22 MR. : Or bail bond. And can 23 you -. 24 MS. : Or time served. 25 MR. : Okay. So, when they're EFTA00115201 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 1 leaving and - so it sounds like the latter to 2 that are totally different things. But if 3 MS. : Well, no. They could be on 4 the court list and they could appear and go out 5 to court as a court and they might get ordered 6 to time served. 7 MR. : Uh-huh. 8 MS. : So, now, we have them on an 9 out count as going to court because we weren't 10 keying inmates physically out of the 11 institution, we were placing them on an out 12 count. So you would send them out to court as 13 a court, but if you got a disposition back from 14 the Marshals stating that, "Inmate so and so 15 was sentenced to time served," now you would go 16 back in the system and you would key him out, 17 time served. So it doesn't necessarily mean 18 that they could be on the court list as a WAB 19 because that doesn't always happen. Sometimes 20 they do get released straight from the 21 courthouse and never come back to the jail, so 22 those things do happen. 23 MR. : And that's what ha- so, 24 what we're trying to get to is, is there any 25 way by looking at that, we can determine if EFTA00115202 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 1 Reyes, when he left at 8:38, had a WAB next to 2 his name. 3 MS. : Not from looking at this, no. 4 MR. : No? 5 MS. : No. 6 MR. : The only way we would be 7 able to determine that is by getting that court 8 list? 9 MS. : Yes. 10 MR. : All right. And -. 11 MS. : Because the Marshals could 12 have sent something back over and said, "Inmate 13 so and so is not coming back, he's going with 14 Probation." He could have had a court 15 appearance and he could have - it could have 16 been with his probation officer and at that 17 time, the judge could have said whatever and 18 sentenced the inmate to probation. So now, 19 he's not coming back to the institution, now 20 we've got to pre-remove him. It just all 21 depends on what happened at court and it all 22 depends on what his status was prior to going 23 to court, what we got far as the court list. 24 So I couldn't tell you that just by looking at 25 that. EFTA00115203 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 1 MR. : When the Marshals send 2 over whatever it is they send over, did they 3 have WAB on their form? 4 MS. : Yeah. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MS. : Yeah. 7 MR. : So, if we get one of 8 those emails, it would say WAB on it. 9 MS. : At that time, it said WAB, 10 yes. 11 MR. : Okay. So that's not 12 something that you create and write WAB, they 13 actually would have it on that email. 14 MS. : Right. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : Right. We don't create that 17 until we get their list. 18 MR. : Uh-huh. 19 MS. : Then that's - we go by what' 20 on their list and then we type it up and we 21 disseminate it to the housing units like that. 22 MR. : Okay. But somebody that 23 your - so, my understanding though is that not 24 everybody that goes to court is WAB. 25 MS. : That's correct. EFTA00115204 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 1 MR. : And just to make sure 2 that we are understanding correctly on that, so 3 people that just go to court, would they also 4 be listed as pre-remove? 5 MS. : They could possibly be, yes. 6 MR. : Just possibly, but -. 7 MS. : It could possibly be because 8 the Marshals might call you and say, "Hey, we 9 got inmate so and so, he's not coming back, 10 he's going with the state," and they'll send us 11 a cut slip. Yeah. 12 MR. : No, that's after the fact 13 though, after they've already left? 14 MS. : That can possibly happen 15 after they left, yes. 16 MR. : So if we're looking at 17 this thing on RAS (Phonetic Sp. *00:37:52) 18 where it says 8:38, is that what was entered 19 for him at 8:38 or is it that could have been 20 changed later on, the pre-remove thing? 21 MS. : It just depends on what time 22 he went out. I don't know because it could 23 have been changed. Well, no. Well, I can't 24 tell you just by looking at this. 25 MR. : So, all right, so this EFTA00115205 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 doesn't tell us anything? 2 MS. : It tells you that he was 3 removed from the institution. 4 MR. : At 8:38 though. 5 MS. : Yes. 6 MR. : And I guess, so - and 7 again, I 8 MS. : Because at one point in time, 9 how we key inmates out now is not how we were 10 keying inmates out then. We didn't key them 11 out, we just placed them on the out count. So, 12 if we keyed them on an out count, they would 13 show off of the unit population but they would 14 still be on the institutional count. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : Now, how we key them out, 17 they're off the institutional count and they're 18 off the unit count. So when we key them out 19 now for court, they - it's like they never - 20 they're not here in the institution at all. 21 MR. : Okay. So for these 22 people that were on this pre-remove, does that 23 mean at 8:38, pre-remove, that he was taken off 24 of the institutional count? 25 MS. : Yes. EFTA00115206 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. : And is there - I do see a 4 few pre-removes on there though. 5 MS. Uh-huh. 6 MR. : Is there anybody on there 7 that went to court that wasn't listed as a pre- 8 remove? 9 MS. : I don't know. 10 MR. : You can't tell by looking 11 at that? All right. So that basically doesn't 12 tell us anything about him being WAB or not. 13 MS. : Right. I can't tell you who 14 went to court. 15 MR. : Okay. We just need to 16 get that court list. 17 MR. : So just to clarify. Some of 18 this list as pre-remove can come back. 19 MS. : Can't? 20 MR. : Can, C-A-N, they could come 21 back to the institution. 22 MS. : If he got another charge and 23 the Marshals brough him back. 24 MR. : But - okay. So if there is 25 pre-removed, that means he's gone. He's -. EFTA00115207 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : He's gone. 2 MR. : He's gone. 3 MS. : Right. 4 MR. : And he's not expected to 5 come back? 6 MS. : Correct. 7 MR. : Okay. All right. I did 8 miss that. All right. So when you list them 9 as pre-remove, he's going to court, he's not 10 expected to come back. 11 MS. : Correct. 12 MR. : So at 8:38, Reyes was 13 gone and not expected to return. 14 MS. : Yes. 15 MR. : Okay. Now, is the 16 Marshals supposed to send over a confirmation 17 that he's not coming back? Because you 18 mentioned something about they being keyed as 19 something different when they are officially 20 gone, like they're off the books. 21 MS. : No, this would be officially 22 off the books, a pre-remove. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MS. : But what the question was, 25 would I know at this time, was he a WAB, I EFTA00115208 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 1 would only know that if I looked at the court 2 list at that time, then I can determine that, 3 "Okay, yeah, we keyed him out that way because 4 he was leaving with all his belonging," Or, 5 "No, we keyed him out that way because we got a 6 disposition later and stated that he wasn't 7 coming back." I can't just say, just by 8 looking at this, "Oh, well, we keyed him out 9 that way because he was a WAB." Now, I can 10 look at this GCT release and this full term 11 release or this treaty transfer and tell you 12 that these were guys that were getting full 13 term release from the jail and they were not 14 coming back. But - and I can also say that 15 he's not coming back, but I can't tell you why 16 he was pre-removed. I don't know the 17 circumstances of why he was pre-removed. I 18 would have to go back to his folder, look in 19 his folder, pull up his documents of why we 20 keyed him out. I can't just say, "Oh, yeah, 21 because he left with all his belongings, oh, it 22 was a court -" - I can't -. 23 MR. : So you can't tell that, 24 but you can tell 8:38 he left and was not 25 expected to return. EFTA00115209 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. So that's 3 basically the same thing. So, anybody that 4 knew that Reyes was gone at 8:38, like he was, 5 knew very unlikely to return. 6 MS. : Everybody don't have - 7 everybody doesn't look at this. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MS. : So, if you don't have a 10 reason to look at this, you're not going to 11 look at this and everybody -. 12 MR. : But anybody that had the 13 - whatever reason you used to code him out like 14 that, they would have had that court list and 15 they would have had the same - they would have 16 known the reason why he was leaving though, 17 correct? 18 MS. : Right. 19 MR. : And that he wasn't 20 expected to return? 21 MS. : Right. 22 MR. : So, okay. So not 23 specifically that document, but what you used 24 to key him out, they would know. 25 MS. : Uh-huh. EFTA00115210 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 53 1 MR. : so, okay. So, based upon 2 the fact that he was pre-removed by R&D, for 3 instance, the unit he came from, the Special 4 Housing Unit, they should have known he left 5 and was very likely not returning. 6 MS. : They wouldn't know that. The 7 officers on the unit would not know that. 8 MR. : Even if they had the 9 court list and that's where they're grabbing 10 him from? 11 MS. : If the - let me tell you 12 something. I'm trying to figure out how to say 13 this. Everybody that reads a document, do not 14 know what they're reading. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : Everybody that pulls up 17 SENTRY, does not know how to read a SENTRY 18 document. 19 MR. : Yeah. 20 MS. : So I can't say, "Yes," 21 they should know that or, "No." 22 MR. : If they knew how to read 23 the court list, they would know. 24 MS. : Yes. 25 MR. : Got you. EFTA00115211 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 1 MS. : Right. 2 MR. : Yeah, you can't certainly 3 can't say he knew that because you don't even 4 know who we're talking about. 5 MS. : Right. 6 MR. : But I'm just saying, like 7 the information would have been on there if 8 they knew how to interpret it. 9 MS. : Right. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MR. : we might have covered this 12 already, but if we wanted to go back and 13 retrieve that court document, like get a copy, 14 what's the best way we can do it? 15 MS. : You probably need to get with 16 the Marshals because they're the ones that 17 create that list that they sent to us in order 18 for production. 19 MR. : Are you aware if they retain 20 it or not? 21 MS. : I don't know nothing about 22 what they do with their 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MS. -- documents. 25 MR. : No problem. EFTA00115212 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 1 MR. : No, well, she said that 2 it's emailed to everybody -- 3 MR. : Yeah. 4 MR. : -- so. 5 MS. : Uh-huh. 6 MR. : Now, after reviewing that, do 7 you know if that daily log - if the court 8 document, the court list is used to update the 9 Lieutenant's log? 10 MS. : There's - yeah, yeah. 11 MR. : And the daily log. 12 MS. : Right. 13 MR. : Okay. We covered this. And 14 the daily log, the entries that are made on it, 15 is it made at the time that it's keyed in or is 16 it - can it be edited later? 17 MS. : When you say "edited," what 18 do you mean? 19 MR. : Can someone go in a couple 20 hours later and key in saying that, "Hey, 21 listen, this person left at 8:38." 22 MS. : I don't think so because 23 everybody that actually - you have a certain 24 time frame to key inmates in and you have a