DIGITALLY RECORDED

1 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL JULY 20, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00115313 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00115314 3 1 : This is Special Agent 2 Today is Thursday, July 15, 2021. The 3 time is 4:03 p.m. and I've turned on the 4 recorder. My name is , I'm a 5 Special Agent with the III. Department of 6 Justice, Office of Inspector General, New York 7 Field Office and these are my credentials. 8 : Okay. 9 : This interview is with the 10 Federal Bureau of Prisons Correctional Officer 11 and this interview is being conducted as 12 part of an official III. Department of Justice, 13 Office of Inspector General investigation. 14 Today is July 15, 2021. The time is 4:04 p.m. 15 This interview is being conducted at the 16 Metropolitan Correctional Center located at 150 17 Park Row. We are in the Executive 18 office. Also present is DOJ OIG Senior Special 19 Agent and CO . This 20 interview will be recorded by me, Special Agent 21 Could everyone please identify 22 themselves for the record and spell your last 23 name. To start, I am DOJ OIG Special Agent 24 • 25 : I'm Senior Special Agent EFTA00115315 4 1 also 2 with the DOJ OIG. 3 : Can you please state your 4 first and last name? 5 : Oh, and these are my 6 credentials just so you do know. 7 : Okay. I'm Correctional 8 Systems Officers S. with 9 the Federal Bureau of Prisons, Department of 10 Justice. 11 : This is an official DOJ OIG 12 investigation into the death of inmate Jeffery 13 Epstein and the surrounding circumstances. You 14 are being asked to voluntarily provide answers 15 to our questions. Will you agree to a 16 voluntary interview with the DOJ OIG? 17 : Yes. 18 : Please review DOJ OIG form 3- 19 226/2. The form basically states, "United 20 States Department of Justice, Office of 21 Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances to 22 Employee Requested to Provide Information on a 23 Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to 24 provide information as part of an investigation 25 being conducted by the Office of Inspector EFTA00115316 5 1 General. This investigation is being conducted 2 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, 3 as amended. This investigation pertains to job 4 performance failure and security failure." 5 in general. It has nothing to do with you 6 directly, in general, the investigation 7 we're doing. "This is a voluntary interview. 8 Accordingly, you do not have to answer 9 questions. No disciplinary action will be 10 taken against you if you choose not to answer 11 questions. Any statement you furnish may be 12 used as evidence in any future criminal 13 proceedings or agency disciplinary proceedings 14 or both." The waiver states, "I understand the 15 warnings and assurances stated above and I am 16 willing to make a statement and answer 17 questions. No promises or threats have been 18 made to me or no pressure or coercion of any 19 kind has been used against me." Please review 20 the document and let me know if you understand. 21 If you do understand, please sign the document 22 where it says, "Employee signature," and print 23 your name. 24 : And just for the record, 25 it doesn't basically state what you just said, EFTA00115317 6 1 it actually states everything that you just 2 read. 3 : It states that. I used the 4 word "basically states," I shouldn't have said 5 that. 6 N. Okay. And I sign at employee 7 sig-. 8 : It says, "Employee 9 signature," and print your name right below it. 10 : Oh, do you have any 11 questions on that before we go, just you can 12 totally ask (Indiscernible *00:03:35) . 13 : Okay. No. 14 : Just, I mean, the long 15 and -- 16 : Date and time? 17 : -- short of it is -- 18 : I'll put it in there. 19 : -- we can do that. But 20 then just the long and short of it is, 21 voluntary. You do not have to answer 22 questions. You can leave at any time. 23 24 N. 25 you just to -. : Okay. the purpose, for EFTA00115318 7 1 N. : So you understand the form 2 and agree to the form. 3 : Yes. 4 : This is Special Agent 5 I'm signing on the signature of the Office of 6 Inspector General, Special Agent. 7 : This is Senior Special 8 Agent . I'll be signing as 9 the witness, printing my name as a witness, 10 entering the date and time as July 15, 2021 at 11 4:07 p.m. and the place MCC New York. 12 : Before starting the 13 interview, I'd like to place you under oath. 14 II. , can you please raise your right 15 hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and 16 nothing but the truth during this interview? 17 : I do. 18 : Please - you can put your 19 hand down. 20 : Oh, okay. 21 : Please let me know if you 22 don't understand my questions and I'll try to 23 repeat it or try to rephrase it for you. 24 : Okay. 25 : I want to again, clarify this EFTA00115319 8 1 2 3 4 interview is specifically regarding inmate Jeffrey Epstein on August 9th and 10th, 2019. I'm going to go through some background questions. What is your current home address? 5 : My current home address? 6 : Yes. 7 : Why is that relevant for 8 this? 9 : As part of our investi-. 10 : You don't have to provide 11 that. 12 : Oh yeah, I don't want to -- 13 : Yeah. 14 -- give my address. 15 : If you have anything - 16 any kind of, like a PINT card you can show us 17 just so we can verify who it is that you are? 18 : You know what? I left it at 19 my desk. 20 • okay. Do you mind 21 providing us your date of birth and your last 22 four of your social security number? 23 : Yes. is my date 24 of birth and last four of my social, 25 : What is your highest level of EFTA00115320 9 1 education? 2 3 4 Master's degree. : Okay. In what? Inspector General 5 investigations, fraud, waste, abuse or 6 corruption, organizational assessment and 7 monitoring. 8 : You know more about this 9 stuff than us then. 10 11 12 13 14 administration. 15 N. : Which college? : John Jay. : And what about bachelors? My bachelors was correctional What did you do prior to 16 working for the BOP? 17 : Ask her about where this 18 stuff was and when she got these degrees. 19 20 Okay. I got my masters in 2017. I 21 got my BA in I believe 2006. 22 : Also from John Jay? 23 : Yes. 24 : Okay. And what - so prior to 25 working for the BOP, what did you do? EFTA00115321 10 : Juvenile corrections. Where? Virginia. : Is that with the state? 5 City? 6 : Yeah. State Department of 7 Juvenile Justice. 8 : Was that directly before the 9 BOP? 10 : Yes. 11 : What years? I you don't 12 recall -. 13 : They can be approximate. 14 : Estimate, yeah. 15 : Approximately, I think 2006 16 or `07 to 2009, when I started here. 17 N. : Okay. Do you have any 18 military service? 19 : No. 20 : And how long have you served 21 with the Federal Bureau of Prisons? 22 : Approximately now, 2009, 2019 23 is 10 years, 20, 21, going on 11 and a half 24 years. 25 Eleven and a half years? And EFTA00115322 11 1 2 3 when was your enter on duty date? E. : 9/13/2009. E. : When did you graduate from 4 BOP training? 5 6 don't -. : I don't remember that. I 7 N. : When did you begin your 8 career here at MCC? 9 E. : March of 2011. 10 11 N. that point? : And what was your position at 12 : Correctional Officer. 13 14 position? : What is your current 15 E. : Correctional Systems Officer. 16 U. : And your regular 17 schedule right now? 18 N. : 12:00 to 8:00 Monday through 19 Friday. 20 : Do you -. 21 : What does your position 22 entail? What is that? 23 N. : Receiving and discharge, 24 movement. I deal with state risk, federal 25 risk, detainers, pending charges, warrants, EFTA00115323 12 1 2 3 what else? custody? : And outside of 4 : Yes. 5 : Okay. What is your grade 6 level? 7 : GS-8. 8 : Eight? Okay. 9 : Uh-huh. 10 : What was your position on 11 August 9th and 10th, 2019? 12 : I was a Correctional Systems 13 Officer, but I was working overtime in custody. 14 What a minute. I don't even know what day that 15 is. 16 17 • : August 9th is a Friday. : Uh -huh. 18 : And August 10th is Saturday. 19 I can provide you the daily assignment roster - 20 - 21 : And what -. 22 -- for the MCC -- 23 : Okay. 24 and for August 9th 25 and 10th. If you look at it, you'll be able to EFTA00115324 13 1 -. 2 : And provide her -- 3 : This is two -. 4 : -- provide her also her 5 timesheet. 6 : Yes. Is this your timesheet 7 for the same time period? 8 : Show her the columns 9 (Indiscernible *00:08:55) . 10 11 N. • 12 *00:08:58) . 13 N. : Okay. (Indiscernible : I normally write everything 14 on a calendar, but looks like my timesheet. 15 : So, the timesheet is for 16 August 4th all the way to August 17th. For the 17 9th, where does this timesheet show that you 18 worked? 19 : This - it doesn't show where 20 you're working, it just shows the hours you've 21 worked. 22 : Is it coded under a certain 23 entry? 24 : Well just ask her, do you 25 know by looking at these documents, do you know EFTA00115325 14 1 where on August 9th and August 10th you were 2 working? This is not an, "I got you," 3 whatsoever. Just like, do you recall on August 4 9th(Indiscernible *00:10:03) working? 5 : Well, I know that this is a 6 custody overtime code for the overtime sheets. 7 So this is -. 8 : If it doesn't state, 9 okay. 10 • possible, because I do 11 I was working a lot of overtime, so. But I 12 can't recall off the top of my head. But I 13 know I did work the evening of the Epstein 14 situation, so. 15 : When you say "evening."? 16 : The morning he hung himself. 17 Il• : Okay. So according to the 18 August 10th schedule, find yourself on the 19 schedule? 20 : Uh-huh. 21 : What were you listed for? 22 : Control one. 23 : Control one. Okay. Do you 24 recall being interviewed by - recall 25 interviewing with the OIG regarding the Epstein EFTA00115326 15 1 investigation in 2019? 2 3 yes. 4 N. .. : I remember being interviewed, : Okay. What I have is a 5 summary off a report written by the FBI. Was 6 the FBI also present? 7 : Yes. 8 : We did get a copy of it 9 because OIG was present for the interview also. 10 I'm going to read a portion of the interview 11 record for you. 12 : Does it state when she 13 worked on August 9 and 10? That might help 14 clarify things. 15 : For the 10th it does. And 16 so, I'm going to read it. As I read through 17 it, just summary for the record. Please 18 tell me if any corrections and let me 19 know -- 20 : Okay. 21 and we'll address it. 22 " duties include monitoring the 23 activity on the ranges, answering calls from 24 COs, replying on the radio and opening doors." 25 : Monitoring - you - at that EFTA00115327 16 1 time, we didn't have cameras on the ranges so 2 you could only see the center, which is like, 3 they consider it the MPA, multi -purpose area of 4 the unit. You are not able to see down the 5 actual ranges of the units, so no. I wouldn't 6 say, "The ranges," I would say, "The multi - 7 purpose area." 8 Multi -purpose area of the 9 ranges. "And ," did I pronounce it 10 right? 11 12 Uh -huh. stated that no one is 13 really moving anywhere within the institution. 14 A count sheet is called the E-1 and it is 15 printed off from the internal MCC system called 16 SENTRY. Control validates all respondent 17 numbers from the head counts and marks an X on 18 the E-1 sheet to confirm the count. This 19 happens for every check of every unit. E-ls 20 are supplemented with count slips that are 21 properly filled out and stapled to the E-1 22 timesheet. Once all head count numbers are 23 verified to be correct, everything is 24 documented, recorded and then considered to be 25 a good count. began her shift on August EFTA00115328 17 1 10th at 12:00 midnight to 8:00 a.m. 2 stated that Lieutenant took care of 3 the 12 o'clock count that day." I'm going to 4 pause right there. I'm going to ask you a 5 question. Do you recall coming on shift that 6 day? 7 : Yes. 8 : Do you recall the first count 9 would be at 12:00 midnight? 10 11 ■. ■. : Yes. : And were you in Control when 12 the count happened? 13 14 15 : Yes. : Who took the count? : I don't remember at that 16 time. I don't remember all this time ago, but 17 if I said the Lieutenant took the count at that 18 time, then who took the count, because 19 every Lieutenant is required to take a count, 20 one count per shift. 21 ■. : But you don't recall the 22 exact situation -. 23 : I think what asking 24 was, was Lieutenant in the Control 25 with you? EFTA00115329 18 1 N. : At some point in time, yes, 2 she was. 3 : So if she was taking the 4 count, does that mean that doing from 5 Control? 6 : Yes, doing it from 7 Control. 8 : Okay. 9 : Okay. recalled that 10 CO Thomas -" - and this says CO Noel, but is 11 that Noel? 12 : Noel. 13 "CO Noel worked in the SHU on 14 the day of the incident. stated that 15 Noel was fairly new. stated that she 16 does not pay specific attention to just one 17 individual screen during her shifts since so 18 much is going on. stated that extension 19 6468 is a number that is called for reporting 20 the count. If a Lieutenant is on the unit for 21 the count, then this is when it is considered a 22 watch call. On the 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. 23 watch calls, ran the counts. 24 recalled that the SHU called in the count of 25 the day and that the count was accurate. EFTA00115330 19 1 does not recall who called in the count 2 from the SHU but recalled that the number was 3 72. stated that there are folders that 4 are filed that are compiled with count 5 verification timesheets for every day of the 6 calendar year." 7 8 That is correct. So I asked you, on August 9 10th, you said you worked at midnight in 10 Control. 11 12 13 on August 9th? 14 Yes. Do you recall if you worked I probably did. I don't 15 recall that, this far from now to then, but I 16 probably most likely worked that day and if 17 on the roster and on my timesheet, 18 most likely, yes. 19 ■. But you wouldn't happen to 20 recall if you worked in internal or R&D? 21 ■. I know I worked R&D because 22 my regular position and Custody, 23 anything I did in Custody would be considered 24 overtime for me. 25 ■. Okay. So, on August 9th, by EFTA00115331 20 1 based on that, it wouldn't tell - would the 2 (Indiscernible *00:15:16) . 3 : It did say overtime. It did 4 say overtime in internal. 5 : But internal is not - is that 6 the same as R&D? 7 : No. R&D, this is 8 Correctional Services. R&D is Correctional 9 Systems. Those are two different departments. 10 This is custody and R&D is non-custody. 11 : So by this, were you in 12 custody? 13 : Yes. I was there. 14 : Okay. So you were working in 15 internal, not in R&D. 16 : Yes. 17 : Okay. Do you recall who your 18 supervisor was when you worked at the MCC on 19 August 9th and 10th? 20 : I would only know by looking 21 at this roster. , Lieutenant 22 : So you report only to 23 or do you report to any other COs 24 : No, the only supervisor 25 on duty during that time. EFTA00115332 21 1 N. During the night. And so 2 both days it was midnight to 8:00 a.m. 3 4 5 supervisor? 6 7 8 Jeffrey Epstein? 9 10 11 cell mate? 12 13 14 Yes. Okay. Was she also a Yes. Are you familiar with inmate Yes. Did Jeffrey Epstein have a Yes, he did. Do you know who it was? I don't know, but I know the 15 inmate went out to court I believe Friday and 16 he didn't come back from court. I don't know 17 if he got released from court, but he didn't 18 come back to the institution that day. 19 : How do you know that? 20 : Because I work in R&D. 21 So, is this from your 22 knowledge from working in R&D that day or on a 23 later date? 24 N. 25 R&D that day. My knowledge of working in EFTA00115333 22 1 : So - okay. Because 2 according to this, you were in R&D -- 3 : I was in R&D. 4 : I mean, you're in 5 internal. 6 : Right. But this is midnight. 7 My hours in R&D is from 12:00 to 8:00. 8 : 12:00 to 8:00? So you did 9 work later in the shift -- 10 : Right. 11 so that (Indiscernible 12 *00:16:56) be on the schedule at all. You're 13 not going to be on this roster. not going 14 to show you as 12:00 to 8:00. 15 : Custody has a different 16 roster from my department roster. 17 : Okay. 18 : So you're not going to see my 19 department. My department hours would be that 20 - what you see on that timesheet and this is 21 considered overtime. So anything here, where 22 it says, "Additional," this is overtime because 23 you see the two shifts, the eight up here and 24 the eight at the bottom. 25 : Okay. EFTA00115334 23 1 2 day. : And 16 hours for the 3 : So I'm going to go back and 4 clarify. On August 9th, you worked from 5 midnight to 8:00 a.m. -- 6 E. Uh-huh. 7 : -- and you were in internal. 8 E. Yes. 9 E. : And then after that, what was 10 your next shift? 11 : That was Saturday, the next 12 day. That would be midnight the next night. 13 : Okay. 14 15 shifts. : These are all midnight 16 U. : Midnight shifts. But did you 17 work regular shifts those days? August 9th and 18 10th? 19 N. : In my department? 20 Yeah, in R&D. 21 If a Friday and a 22 Thursday or a Friday and a Saturday. A 23 24 Saturday, E. I wouldn't be in my department, no. What about Friday? 25 E. Friday I'm in my department, EFTA00115335 24 1 yes, because my department is Monday through 2 Friday. 3 : And your regular time? 4 : 12:00 to 8:00. I believe I 5 was working 12:00 to 8:00. I'm not sure. 6 : midnight to 8:00, 7 right? But midnight to 8:00 -. 8 : No, no, no, 12:00 p.m. in the 9 afternoon 10 : 12:00 p.m. to 8:00. 11 to 8:00 p.m. 12 : To 8:00 p.m. So, according 13 to this, you were in internal from - on August 14 9th, from midnight to 8:00 a.m., then there was 15 a four hour break? Are you saying there was a 16 four hour break and then you worked from -. 17 : I'm not sure right here based 18 on this because I might have been working 2:00 19 to 10:00 because I had to do 12:00 8:00 p.m. or 20 2:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. 21 : Okay. 22 : So, based on this, this says, 23 "Regular base." This might have been from the 24 day shift because this says, "Regular base," so 25 this might have been, I worked midnight to 8:00 EFTA00115336 25 1 in the morning and then maybe 8:00 to 4:00 in 2 my department because I don't see no - well, I 3 don't recall my duty hours in my department at 4 that time. 5 6 been a while. : I'm sorry. Yeah. 7 : But to follow up though, 8 you said that you knew that cell mate 9 had left because you were working in R&D, so 10 you probably want to follow up -- 11 12 13 N. N. 14 to court. 15 16 : Yeah. So -. : -- with that. : So we key inmates in and out : Okay. : So that - so, Reyes, how did 17 you first come to learn that he left? 18 : Because we have to key them 19 out to go to court. I mean, I don't know 20 actually at that moment that he was 21 cell mate, but when the comment came up that 22 his bunkie, they moved his bunkie, they put him 23 in a cell by himself, and when we learned who 24 that specific inmate was, how I became 25 aware that, no, this guy went to court and he EFTA00115337 26 1 was released from court, wherever he got 2 removed to. Never came back from court. 3 : What do you mean they moved 4 his bunkie to a separate cell? 5 : They kept saying Epstein was 6 put in a cell by himself, he didn't have a cell 7 mate. 8 : Okay. 9 : That was not the case, he did 10 have a cell mate, but he got released from 11 court or wherever it is the Marshals took him 12 to, that he didn't come back to MCC. But off 13 the top to say I knew that that was actually 14 his cell mate, I didn't know that until we 15 became aware of who the inmate was that got 16 released and went to court, because we don't 17 know who cell mates are just by 18 working in R&D, we just know their bed 19 assignment and what unit they're coming from. 20 : No, working the R&D, are you 21 familiar with something called the court list? 22 : Yes. 23 : Was inmate name on 24 the court list? 25 : Yes. EFTA00115338 27 1 2 : Do you recall? : Yeah. Because I think 3 the guy we keyed out to court. 4 5 list? 6 N. N. : Okay. And what is a court : A court list is something we 7 get from the Marshals. They'll send us over 8 just a roster of names of inmates to appear for 9 production to the court either going out on a 10 writ, being transferred to another jail. A 11 court list consists of whatever type of 12 movement that the Marshals want the inmates 13 for. It could be appearing before a proffer to 14 tell on somebody, it could just be whatever it 15 is that they need them to appear for the court 16 production for. 17 : How do the Marshals send it 18 over? 19 : They always email it or fax 20 it. 21 : Who receives the email? 22 : Everybody in R&D. 23 : Do you recall who was working 24 in R&D that day? 25 : No. EFTA00115339 28 1 : Everybody receives it. 2 N. : Yeah, everybody in R&D 3 receives it, but I couldn't say off the -- 4 : Yeah. 5 N. : -- top of my head, "Oh, this 6 person worked," I don't remember who worked 7 with me that day. 8 : So everybody that 9 actually is in R&D, you all get that same 10 : Yeah. 11 : -- court sheet, so it 12 doesn't matter who was working that day or not. 13 N. : Right. 14 : Everybody would have 15 gotten it. 16 17 : Uh -huh. : Do you recall receiving that 18 email? 19 : I don't recall receiving the 20 email, but I know we had a court list. 21 : Who creates that court list? 22 : Whoever is doing movement. 23 : Okay. And what - so you just 24 mentioned all the inmates listed on 25 there anything for movement and the Marshals EFTA00115340 29 1 send it over -- 2 : Uh-huh. 3 : -- and they email it. And 4 what do you get? 5 : Email or fax you said, 6 right? 7 : Email or fax. 8 II* : Or fax. 9 : Is it (Indiscernible 10 *00:22:21) 11 : Well, I believe they were 12 doing both email and faxing at that time. 13 : So you get both. 14 Uh-huh. 15 : Okay. 16 : And once the list comes over, 17 and who did you say creates the court list? 18 : The movement officer and if 19 the movement officer is not there, whoever is 20 filling in, it might be somebody in the front 21 desk. Just whoever is in the department, 22 they'll fill out the - complete the court list, 23 put it on a call out and get it prepared so 24 overnight, the officer who is internal can pass 25 it out to the housing unit so the inmates are EFTA00115341 30 1 aware when they wake up the next day or the 2 officer can say, "Hey, I got this inmate, I've 3 got to get him ready for court the next day." 4 : Who is the movement officer? 5 : I don't know if - I don't 6 know who was the movement officer at that time. 7 I don't know. 8 : Okay. When do the -. 9 : When you say a movement 10 officer, are you talking about control? 11 : No. 12 : I mean internal? 13 : No. R&D. 14 : R&D movement officer? 15 : We have different position 16 yeah. 17 : Okay. 18 : We have different positions 19 in R&D where everybody had a different 20 function. 21 : Okay. So is the movement 22 officer in R&D basically like will go into 23 internal with (Indiscernible *00:23:21)? 24 : No, they are - they are like, 25 they prepare the transfer orders if inmates are EFTA00115342 31 1 moving out of the -- 2 : Okay. 3 : -- institution. 4 : So they're doing the 5 background of what the internal guy does 6 almost. 7 : They don't have anything to 8 do with internal. 9 : Okay. Because - okay. 10 Sorry. 11 • - no. 12 : I'm making more things 13 more (Indiscernible *00:23:38) . 14 : Nothing to do with internal. 15 just preparing inmates to move out of the 16 institution, preparing the production list for 17 inmates to - for a unit - for a list to be 18 disseminated to the housing units for the 19 officers to know what inmate has to appear in 20 court the next day. The movement officer might 21 draft up a - get a compile, like a medical 22 summary, transit order, anything that they need 23 to put together for an inmate to be released to 24 move out of the institution to be transferred. 25 what the movement officer does. EFTA00115343 32 1 : Great. 2 : Do you recall what your 3 position was in the R&D that day? 4 : I might have been R&D. : Okay. 6 : I might have been R&D. I 7 don't believe I was movement but I might have 8 been R&D. 9 : So as R&D, what would you 10 take care of? 11 : Court movement, inmates going 12 in and out, keying them in and out, getting 13 inmates down to my area to get prepared for 14 court, tracking inmates going out to the 15 hospital, keying inmates going out to the 16 hospital, keying inmates coming back. 17 Basically, I would be responsible for like 18 inmates leaving in and out of the institution 19 - 20 : Okay. 21 : -- and preparing them to get 22 out of the institution. 23 : We can take a step back. 24 When did the Marshals list normally come over? 25 Do they send it over the night before? EFTA00115344 33 1 : Yes. 2 : Evening before or they send 3 it the morning of? 4 : The evening before. : Around what time? : I think always around 7 approximately between, I would say, maybe 8 3:00 and 5:00 or - yeah, between like 3:00 and 9 5:00, something like that. 10 : Okay. And -. 11 : Around that time frame. 12 not like a set time, whoever does it and 13 faxes it over and emails it. But it was about 14 maybe between 3:00 and 5:00 or 3:00 and 6:00, 15 something like that. 16 : And then once R&D receives 17 it, you guys prepare a court list. 18 : Uh-huh. 19 : And what does it state on the 20 court list? 21 : just a document, like a 22 SENTRY created document that show the 23 name, his housing unit, if he has a separatee 24 (Phonetic Sp. *00:25:49) in the institution and 25 what time he has to come down to R&D to move EFTA00115345 34 1 out for court, whether it be that he has court 2 in the a.m. or court in the p.m. 3 : Okay. And would it state, 4 like, say if an inmate was leaving and 5 not coming back, would it state on there? 6 : Yeah, it would say, "WAB," 7 but most often times, pre-trial is - because 8 they're not our inmates, they're Marshals 9 inmates, the Marshals can move them at any 10 given time and just forward us back a 11 disposition of the inmate leaving. "Inmate so 12 and so was released to Probation. a cut 13 slip for you guys' file -" - then we can go 14 ahead and key them out. But we don't key 15 inmates out WAB if they're going out to court. 16 We key them out - at that time, we were doing 17 what was considered an out count. We weren't 18 keying inmates out, we were keying them on an 19 out count so we know that we have an account of 20 who went out to court and we have an account of 21 who came back from court. 22 : So are you saying that you 23 guys wouldn't remove the inmate completely from 24 the count, you would just leave them under the 25 out count? EFTA00115346 35 1 N. : Yes. We would only remove 2 him if prior to that list, when we got the 3 list, it says, "Transferred WAB, we're sending 4 him somewhere to Brooklyn or going back to 5 the state," that night before we would know 6 that. But sometimes at the spur of the moment, 7 things might arise, a judge might give a person 8 time served, he might commit him to drug 9 treatment program, Probation might come and 10 pick him up. It could be a number of things 11 that take place at court that it might be just 12 a regular court proceeding but then he gets 13 released and he doesn't come back to the 14 institution. 15 E. 16 Efrain 17 N. Do you recall seeing inmate name on that list? : If he was on that list at 18 that time, then I've seen it, but I don't 19 recall now, speaking now, but at that time, 20 yeah, if his name was on the list, yes. 21 : Do you recall if his - I know 22 you said you don't recall, but by any chance, 23 would you have known if he left WAB? What does 24 WAB stand for? 25 N. : With all belongings, meaning EFTA00115347 36 1 they're being transferred either to an air 2 lift, transferred to another BOP, transferred 3 to another state institution, that the Marshals 4 will be transferring them to. 5 : And you don't recall if he - 6 do you recall if his name was on as WAB on that 7 list? 8 : No. I don't recall that. 9 : Okay. We'll come back in a 10 little bit. The court list that you guys 11 create, who does that get sent to? 12 : It doesn't get sent to - it 13 gets sent to the unit officers. We don't email 14 it out, we make hard copies and the internal 15 officer comes around at night and he gives one 16 to each housing unit. 17 : Around what time? 18 : Depending on - any time 19 during from midnight to 8:00 in the morning. 20 They have up until to give out that. But most 21 likely, no later than 5:00 a.m., after the 5 22 o'clock count because at that time, when 23 the institution is opening up after the 5:00 24 a.m. count, then the inmates will have their 25 breakfast and start preparing for whatever it EFTA00115348 37 1 is their day entails. 2 U. Do you recall working that 3 morning in R&D and seeing inmate Reyes come 4 down? 5 : I don't remember. 6 N. Okay. And when the list is 7 sent up to the units, what do they do with it? 8 The unit officers take it and 9 he views it and it just tells him who on his 10 unit has court that day. 11 : Is a copy of that list 12 maintained anywhere? 13 14 15 16 17 N. : By R&D. R&D. No. Because -- : Where do we get it? -- once we - once that list 18 is done of the day, we just shred it, we don't 19 need it. 20 : What about used to 21 - it sounds like create the list from the 22 Marshals, can we get - can we go back to emails 23 from August 8th, I guess it would be, to get 24 that court list from August 9th? 25 N. If still in the system, EFTA00115349 38 1 yeah, you would still - you would be able to 2 see it, yeah. 3 : And you said at that 4 time, they're both fax and email so any single 5 person we could just grab an email from them if 6 it was archived? 7 : Uh-huh. If still, you 8 know, in the system, but we don't normally keep 9 court lists. Once we done for that day, 10 everything gets shredded and we start fresh for 11 the next day. So we don't hold onto court 12 lists. 13 : Okay. 14 : Just something we never did. 15 The only thing we hold onto is transfer orders, 16 people that transferred out, like -. 17 : So for instance, with 18 Reyes - when you say "transfer order," does 19 that also mean released or is that just 20 transferred to a different institution? 21 : Transferred to a different 22 institution 23 : Okay. 24 : -- because if he got released 25 or he got a disposition, that would be EFTA00115350 39 1 something we would place in his file, why he 2 got released. You know you got to have 3 something to show that why you released this 4 inmate, that we didn't just let him walk out 5 the door, we have this document from the 6 Marshals why we released him. 7 : So would Reyes have a 8 file like that? 9 : If not sent to archives 10 and this is 2021, his file would be - his file 11 is probably archived now. 12 : even though like - 13 my understanding was like August 9th everything 14 was going to be, like, preserved August 9th and 15 10th. Do you know if that would create it not 16 actually be archived but actually still 17 maintained somewhere? 18 E. : You would have to get with 19 SIS, I don't know. 20 : Okay. 21 : I don't know. I don't know. 22 : Do you know if that court 23 list is used to update the daily log? 24 25 What do you mean? : Do you know what a daily log EFTA00115351 40 1 is? 2 : Show her. 3 : Have you ever seen that? : Uh-huh. This is -- II- : Is that -. : 38. a what? 8 : We call this a PP38. 9 PP38. 10 : It just tracks movement of 11 who went out the institution, who went from 12 what unit to what unit, who got keyed out. 13 This is what this is. It just tracks all the 14 movement for that day. 15 : Can you flip to the third 16 page for inmate Efrain Reyes. You see next to 17 it it says, "Pre-remove." Do you know what 18 that means? 19 : Uh-huh. That means he was 20 removed from the institution. 21 : Does that mean a 22 possibility that the Marshals list came over 23 : Uh-huh. 24 -- with him as a WAB? 25 : Possibility. Yeah. EFTA00115352 41 1 : What else could it - why else 2 would you list an inmate as pre-remove? 3 : We don't list them as pre- 4 remove, we just key him out as pre-remove. 5 : So he was keyed out at that 6 point. 7 : Uh-huh. 8 : And what time was it keyed 9 out, do you know? 10 : 8:38. Uh-huh. 11 : And he wouldn't be - if a 12 person is going to court, what would it be 13 listed as? 14 : If going to court on 15 this, you wouldn't see - at that time, you 16 wouldn't see that he went to court. You would 17 have to run an out count to show who was keyed 18 out to court. So, you wouldn't be able to see 19 that on this because this just tracks who came 20 into the institution, who left the institution 21 and what housing units they were transferred 22 from, whether they came out of SHU or they went 23 to SHU or they got moved from one unit, housing 24 unit, to another housing unit or if they're - 25 say an inmate got sentenced, this would show EFTA00115353 42 1 you that he might have went from a A-pre, 2 meaning a pre-trial inmate to a hold, he might 3 have pled guilty so now longer a pre-trial 4 and waiting sentencing. So this would 5 just show you stuff like that. Or he became a 6 designated inmate and a BOP inmate. 7 : How would you be able to see 8 the difference between an inmate that just left 9 for court and was coming back and an inmate 10 that left? 11 : Or WAB. 12 : WAB. 13 : On this? 14 : Yeah. Can you? 15 : Yeah, you could just see - 16 well, you don't know, you just know that they 17 were pre-removed. So you don't know, looking 18 at this, why they were pre-removed. 19 : So I guess what he means 20 though, is if someone is just going to court 21 and didn't go to court WAB versus someone who 22 went to court WAB, would they be coded 23 differently on that? 24 : No. 25 : At all? EFTA00115354 43 1 N. : At that time, we weren't - if 2 the inmate went to court and he was a WAB, we 3 would key him out pre-remove or hold-remove. 4 So yes, but - I'm trying to think, what did you 5 just say. Say it again. 6 : So I guess, is there a 7 differentiation, if someone is WAB, are they 8 coded as pre-remove if they're just going to 9 court and they don't have WAB next to their 10 name on that form, would it just say something 11 different, like "Court?" 12 : No, you wouldn't see WAB on 13 this form. You -. 14 : No, no, no, I'm not 15 saying like you would see WAB on that form -- 16 17 N. : Uh -huh. -- I'm just saying like, 18 if an inmate goes to court, are they always 19 listed as pre-remove? 20 : No, they'd be hold-remove. 21 : And the 22 difference? So is it either pre-remove or 23 hold-remove? 24 : Or bail bond. 25 : Or bail bond. And can EFTA00115355 44 1 you -. 2 : Or time served. 3 : Okay. So, when they're 4 leaving and - so it sounds like the latter to 5 that are totally different things. But if 6 : Well, no. They could be on 7 the court list and they could appear and go out 8 to court as a court and they might get ordered 9 to time served. 10 : Uh-huh. 11 : So, now, we have them on an 12 out count as going to court because we weren't 13 keying inmates physically out of the 14 institution, we were placing them on an out 15 count. So you would send them out to court as 16 a court, but if you got a disposition back from 17 the Marshals stating that, "Inmate so and so 18 was sentenced to time served," now you would go 19 back in the system and you would key him out, 20 time served. So it doesn't necessarily mean 21 that they could be on the court list as a WAB 22 because that doesn't always happen. Sometimes 23 they do get released straight from the 24 courthouse and never come back to the jail, so 25 those things do happen. EFTA00115356 45 1 : And what ha- so, 2 what we're trying to get to is, is there any 3 way by looking at that, we can determine if 4 Reyes, when he left at 8:38, had a WAS next to 5 his name. 6 : Not from looking at this, no. 7 : No? 8 : No. 9 : The only way we would be 10 able to determine that is by getting that court 11 list? 12 : Yes. 13 : All right. And -. 14 : Because the Marshals could 15 have sent something back over and said, "Inmate 16 so and so is not coming back, going with 17 Probation." He could have had a court 18 appearance and he could have - it could have 19 been with his probation officer and at that 20 time, the judge could have said whatever and 21 sentenced the inmate to probation. So now, 22 not coming back to the institution, now 23 we've got to pre-remove him. It just all 24 depends on what happened at court and it all 25 depends on what his status was prior to going EFTA00115357 46 1 to court, what we got far as the court list. 2 So I couldn't tell you that just by looking at 3 that. 4 : When the Marshals send 5 over whatever it is they send over, did they 6 have WAB on their form? 7 : Yeah. 8 : Okay. 9 : Yeah. 10 : So, if we get one of 11 those emails, it would say WAB on it. 12 : At that time, it said WAB, 13 yes. 14 : Okay. So not 15 something that you create and write WAB, they 16 actually would have it on that email. 17 N. : Right. 18 : Okay. 19 N. : Right. We don't create that 20 until we get their list. 21 : Uh-huh. 22 : Then - we go by 23 on their list and then we type it up and we 24 disseminate it to the housing units like that. 25 : Okay. But somebody that EFTA00115358 47 1 your - so, my understanding though is that not 2 everybody that goes to court is WAB. 3 • correct. 4 : And just to make sure 5 that we are understanding correctly on that, so 6 people that just go to court, would they also 7 be listed as pre-remove? 8 : They could possibly be, yes. 9 : Just possibly, but -. 10 : It could possibly be because 11 the Marshals might call you and say, "Hey, we 12 got inmate so and so, not coming back, 13 going with the state," and they'll send us 14 a cut slip. Yeah. 15 : No, after the fact 16 though, after they've already left? 17 : That can possibly happen 18 after they left, yes. 19 : So if we're looking at 20 this thing on Reyes where it says 8:38, is that 21 what was entered for him at 8:38 or is it that 22 could have been changed later on, the pre- 23 remove thing? 24 : It just depends on what time 25 he went out. I don't know because it could EFTA00115359 48 1 have been changed. Well, no. Well, I can't 2 tell you just by looking at this. 3 : So, all right, so this 4 doesn't tell us anything? 5 : It tells you that he was 6 removed from the institution. 7 : At 8:38 though. 8 : Yes. 9 : And I guess, so - and 10 again, I -. 11 : Because at one point in time, 12 how we key inmates out now is not how we were 13 keying inmates out then. We didn't key them 14 out, we just placed them on the out count. So, 15 if we keyed them on an out count, they would 16 show off of the unit population but they would 17 still be on the institutional count. 18 : Okay. 19 : Now, how we key them out, 20 they're off the institutional count and they're 21 off the unit count. So when we key them out 22 now for court, they - like they never - 23 they're not here in the institution at all. 24 : Okay. So for these 25 people that were on this pre-remove, does that EFTA00115360 49 1 mean at 8:38, pre-remove, that he was taken off 2 of the institutional count? 3 : Yes. 4 : Okay. 5 : Yes. 6 : And is there - I do see a 7 few pre-removes on there though. 8 : Uh-huh. 9 : Is there anybody on there 10 that went to court that wasn't listed as a pre- 11 remove? 12 E. I don't know. 13 : You can't tell by looking 14 at that? All right. So that basically doesn't 15 tell us anything about him being WAB or not. 16 N. Right. I can't tell you who 17 went to court. 18 : Okay. We just need to 19 get that court list. 20 N. So just to clarify. Some of 21 this list as pre-remove can come back. 22 23 N. N. Can't? Can, C-A-N, they could come 24 back to the institution. 25 N. If he got another charge and EFTA00115361 50 1 the Marshals brough him back. 2 : But - okay. So if there is 3 pre-removed, that means gone. 4 : gone. •• gone. 6 : Right. 7 : And not expected to 8 come back? 9 : Correct. 10 : Okay. All right. I did 11 miss that. All right. So when you list them 12 as pre-remove, going to court, not 13 expected to come back. 14 : Correct. 15 : So at 8:38, Reyes was 16 gone and not expected to return. 17 : Yes. 18 : Okay. Now, is the 19 Marshals supposed to send over a confirmation 20 that not coming back? Because you 21 mentioned something about them being keyed as 22 something different when they are officially 23 gone, like they're off the books. 24 : No, this would be officially 25 off the books, a pre-remove. EFTA00115362 51 1 : Okay. 2 : But what the question was, 3 would I know at this time, was he a WAB, I 4 would only know that if I looked at the court 5 list at that time, then I can determine that, 6 "Okay, yeah, we keyed him out that way because 7 he was leaving with all his belongings," Or, 8 "No, we keyed him out that way because we got a 9 disposition later and stated that he wasn't 10 coming back." I can't just say, just by 11 looking at this, "Oh, well, we keyed him out 12 that way because he was a WAB." Now, I can 13 look at this GCT release and this full term 14 release or this treaty transfer and tell you 15 that these were guys that were getting full 16 term release from the jail and they were not 17 coming back. But - and I can also say that 18 not coming back, but I can't tell you why 19 he was pre-removed. I don't know the 20 circumstances of why he was pre-removed. I 21 would have to go back to his folder, look in 22 his folder, pull up his documents of why we 23 keyed him out. I can't just say, "Oh, yeah, 24 because he left with all his belongings, oh, it 25 was a court -" - I can't -. EFTA00115363 52 1 : So you can't tell that, 2 but you can tell 8:38 he left and was not 3 expected to return. 4 : Yes. 5 : Okay. So 6 basically the same thing. So, anybody that 7 knew that Reyes was gone at 8:38, like he was, 8 knew very unlikely to return. 9 : Everybody don't have - 10 everybody doesn't look at this. 11 : Okay. 12 : So, if you don't have a 13 reason to look at this, you're not going to 14 look at this and everybody -. 15 : But anybody that had the 16 - whatever reason you used to code him out like 17 that, they would have had that court list and 18 they would have had the same - they would have 19 known the reason why he was leaving though, 20 correct? 21 : Right. 22 : And that he wasn't 23 expected to return? 24 : Right. 25 : So, okay. So not EFTA00115364 53 1 specifically that document, but what you used 2 to key him out, they would know. 3 N. Uh -huh. 4 : so, okay. So, based upon 5 the fact that he was pre-removed by R&D, for 6 instance, the unit he came from, the Special 7 Housing Unit, they should have known he left 8 and was very likely not returning. 9 : They wouldn't know that. The 10 officers on the unit would not know that. 11 : Even if they had the 12 court list and where they're grabbing 13 him from? 14 : If the - let me tell you 15 something. I'm trying to figure out how to say 16 this. Everybody that reads a document, do not 17 know what they're reading. 18 : Okay. 19 : Everybody that pulls up 20 SENTRY, does not know how to read a SENTRY 21 document. 22 : Yeah. 23 N. : So I can't say, "Yes," that 24 they should know that or, "No." 25 : If they knew how to read EFTA00115365 54 1 the court list, they would know. 2 3 4 5 N. Yes. : Got you. Right. : Yeah, you can't certainly 6 can't say he knew that because you don't even 7 know who we're talking about. 8 : Right. 9 : But I'm just saying, like 10 the information would have been on there if 11 they knew how to interpret it. 12 : Right. 13 : Okay. 14 : we might have covered this 15 already, but if we wanted to go back and 16 retrieve that court document, like get a copy, 17 the best way we can do it? 18 : You probably need to get with 19 the Marshals because they're the ones that 20 create that list that they sent to us in order 21 for production. 22 : Are you aware if they retain 23 it or not? 24 E. I don't know nothing about 25 what they do with their -- EFTA00115366 55 : Okay. : -- documents. : No problem. 4 : No, well, she said that 5 emailed to everybody -- 6 : Yeah. 7 : -- so. 8 : Uh-huh. 9 : Now, after reviewing that, do 10 you know if that daily log - if the court 11 document, the court list is used to update the 12 log? 13 • - yeah, yeah. 14 : And the daily log. 15 : Right. 16 li• : Okay. We covered this. And 17 the daily log, the entries that are made on it, 18 is it made at the time that keyed in or is 19 it - can it be edited later? 20 : When you say "edited," what 21 do you mean? 22 : Can someone go in a couple 23 hours later and key in saying that, "Hey, 24 listen, this person left at 8:38." 25 : I don't think so because EFTA00115367 56 1 everybody that actually - you have a certain 2 time frame to key inmates in and you have a 3 certain time frame to key inmates out. 4 : And the time frame? 5 : If inmates - but sometimes in 6 R&D, we don't always get to sit down at the 7 computer right then and there and key them out, 8 because we're dealing with the Marshals, 9 they're walking out with one guy, we still have 10 somebody else we might have to strip out. 11 We're still dealing with this, we're dealing 12 with the phone. When an inmate is being 13 released, you're supposed to key them out right 14 then and there, but you have up to a minimum of 15 at least, I think an hour or two hours, to 16 key somebody in coming in the 17 institution. But, like I said, just looking at 18 this, it just tells you the time he was keyed 19 out. I don't know if he was picked up earlier 20 and already taken to the courthouse, then he 21 was keyed out, pre-removed after, I couldn't 22 I can't answer that. I don't know. not - 23 I can't answer that. 24 : Now thinking back about the 25 possibility that you were working in R&D that EFTA00115368 57 1 day -- 2 3 Uh -huh. -- do you recall if he was 4 removed or not that day and what time he was 5 removed? 6 : I don't recall. I just know 7 that when they talked about the inmate, they 8 brought up the inmate and when, you 9 know, we realized, "Oh, that was the guy that 10 went to court and didn't come back." 11 : Where can the daily log be 12 found or accessed? 13 : This? 14 : Yes. 15 : SENTRY. 16 : And who would have access to 17 it? 18 : Mainly everybody in the 19 institution. 20 N. : Everyone can access it. Can 21 everyone make the changes on it? 22 23 this. 24 25 : No, you can't make changes on : Who can make changes on that? You cannot make changes to EFTA00115369 58 1 this. 2 So, that is basically the 3 keyed in information. 4 6 ■. This is like a tracker. Okay. It just shows you all the 7 moves and when it was moved - when the person 8 was moved. So this, you cannot just change. 9 Only thing you can do is put in what you want. 10 just a log, it just pulls up a log. 11 12 13 can change, no. 14 Okay. So this is not nothing you What about the 15 log? Who would have access to that? 16 17 18 19 20 from? 21 22 ■• ■• ■• ■• 23 Control? 24 ■. The Lieutenants. : Does anyone else have access? : Maybe the Captain. Where can it be accessed 25 at that time, no. The office. Can it be accessed from I don't know about now, but EFTA00115370 59 1 N. : Okay. Do you recall if you 2 reviewed the daily log that day? 3 4 : No, I don't remember. : And based on that, it shows 5 inmate Reyes is pre-remove. As per your 6 understanding, that means that he left the 7 institution and not coming back. 8 : Right. 9 : Okay. Do you utilize the 10 daily log as part of your job every day? 11 : Yes. 12 : And how do you utilize it? 13 : To make sure I key the inmate 14 out out of the institution. To account 15 for how many inmates I keyed out. what 16 I use it for in R&D. 17 : Okay. And you're not sure 18 what shift you worked but you believe that you 19 worked in R&D between 8:00 and 4:00 or 12:00 20 and 8:00? 21 : 8:00 to 4:00 or maybe - I was 22 only working two shifts at that time. I'm 23 doing 12:00 to 8:00 now. But it might have 24 been 8:00 to 4:00 or 2:00 to 10:00. One of 25 those two hours. Between those two shifts. EFTA00115371 60 1 : Okay. 2 II. : Because at one point, I only 3 strictly worked the evening shift, so. 4 : When inmates leave through 5 R&D, do you normally see them leaving through 6 R&D? 7 : Yes. 8 : Do you recall having a 9 conversation with Reyes at all? 10 : I couldn't tell you if I 11 spoke to that man or not. I speak to so many 12 inmates, I don't know. 1