UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

page 12k UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO.: 08-CIV-80119-MARRA/JOHNSON JANE DOE NO. 2, Plaintiff, -vs- JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Defendant. VOLUME II OF II Related cases: 08-80232, 08-08380, 08-80381, 08-80994, 08-80993, 08-80811, 08-80893, 09-80469, 09-80591, 09-80656, 09-80802, 09-81092 VIDEOTAPED COMPULSORY MEDICAL EVALUATION OF • Wednesday, November 11, 2009 250 Australian Avenue Suite 1500 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Reported By: Jeana Ricciuti, RPR, FPR, CLR Notary Public, State of Florida Prose Court Reporting Services =?Eri="r":".•• .... - PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (801-280.428-9381) 248de044-bdbfidfa0.9143-Sna9a75ffd35 EFTA01076068 . EFTA01076069 Page 123 1 APPEARANCES: 2 On behalf of the Plaintiff: 3 BRADLEY J. EDWARDS, ESQUIRE 1109 Northeast Second Street 4 Hallendal c Florida 33009 Phone: 5 6 7 On behalf of the Defendant 8 ASHLIE STOICEN-BARING, PARALEGAL BURMAN, CRITTON, LUTT1ER & COLEMAN, LLP 9 303 Banyan Boulevard Suite 400 10 Wcst P Florida 33401 Phone: 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ALSO PRESENT: Dr. Ryan Hall, Jeffrey Abbot, Peographer Visual Evidence, Incorporated 1 doctor. Financial problems. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. So I haven't been diagnosed with anything yet 4 I mean, my therapist has diagnosed me with post S traumatic stress disorder- 6 Q. Okay. What problems? 7 A. Anxiety problems, flashbacks, depression. 8 Q. When you say flashback, what do you man by 9 that? 10 A. Just flashbacks of my past. 11 Q. Can you describe them? 12 A. When I was working at The Bagel Shop, there 13 was, you know, it was an older crowd from Century 14 Village, and I would get sane men that were, you know, 15 early — early 50s and, you know, kind of -- it was a 16 Jewish restaurant and it kind of brought back memory -- 17 memories of me and Jeffrey Epstein and things that 19 occurred between me and him that are very traumatic for 19 me to think about and accept. 20 Q. Okay. What what memories? 21 A. All memories. The way he used to look at me, 22 the way he used to talk, everything about — everything 23 that occurred between the two of us. I just would get 24 flashbacks when I would see — I'd see a lot of people 25 that look like him. 1 2 3 4 5 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Page 124 EXAMINATION BY DR. HALL: Q. We Just took a break for lunch, roughly 45 minutes. Any questions, comments? A. No. Q. Okay. So I think when we went oft we were -- we just did the substance history, we did the medical history, current medications and all of that, okay. So why don't we talk a little bit about your past psychiatric history. A. Okay. Q. P11 just kind of throw out an open-ended question, and so where would you like to begin? A. And what do you mean? What do you mean by that? I'm sorry. Q. I'm sorry. Past history, when's the first time you ever had any psychiatric symptoms or problems A. Psychiatric, as in? Q. Emotional, mental. A. I've never really been diagnosed for -- I 23 mean, other than depression and, I mean, I have a letter 24 that my therapist had wrote out with all of my symptoms 25 for the doctor, but I haven't been able to get to the Page 126 1 Q. Okay. And flashbacks is just memories? 2 A. Yeah, memories. 3 Q. Okay. What do you do when you get these 4 flashbacks? 5 A. Normally, I would try to just — you know, 6 nonnally when I get the flashbacks, I'd kind of get a 7 little bit of anxiety with it. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. It kind of makes me freaked out where I don't 10 want to be around anybody. So when I've gotten them in 11 the past when I've worked at, you know, restaurants and 12 other places, I'd just kind of try to go in die 13 bathroom, gather mysel4 calm myself down. 14 Q. Okay. How long do they last for? 15 A. It would vary. Sometimes it would last for 16 five or ten minutes with the whole anxiety and 17 everything that came with it, sometimes it would last 18 longer. 19 Q. Okay. Would you ever feel as if an event was 20 happening at that moment in time? 21 A. Sometimes. That's happened to me. 22 Q. Can you describe that to me? 23 A. There was — there was a older gentleman, his 24 name was Leo, and he would always come in to the bagel 25 restaurant that I worked at. And this is really before 2 (Pages 123 to 126) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciutl (601-280428-93131) 218d9044-bdbf4fa0-9143-5060•76ffd35 EFTA01076070 Page 127 1 like I got to talk, I started talking to my therapist 2 about it and everything else. And he had two tickets 3 that he wanted to give tome, and he asked me he VMS 4 going to tell me in my ear, you know, what he wanted to 5 give to me for whatever the reason, and we — when i 6 bent down to talk to him, you know,icould just — like 7 the sound of his voice, how he was talking, you know, it 8 just reminded me of Jeffrey's way of talking, how he 9 talked realty fast and sometimes it would be like 10 inaudible or when — I really wouldn't understand what 11 he was saying because he was talking so fast, and it 12 would just instantly remind me when -- how, you know, he 13 would, you know, say come close — like whisper in my 14 ear, come closer, do you like that. You know, and i 15 would feel — i would feel -- when I bent down and he 16 talked to me, 1 felt lace l was almost reliving when I 17 was 14, 15 again. 18 Q. Okay. What do you mean by reliving? 19 A. I felt Ince I was — for a moment, I felt like 20 i was back at Jeffrey's house and he was talking in my 21 ear, whispering in my Cr, talking to me, just how he 22 used to. 23 Q. Okay. How did you feel like you were back at 24 Jeffrey's house? 25 A. I'm sorry? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 129 brought me back. Q. Okay. Any other symptoms? A. As far as flashbacks, I suffer really bad from anxiety. I have a lot of like — like I'm losing hair. I would say i have really bad anxiety problems. Q. When did the anxiety start? A. Probably after -- when I really stopped taking, like, chugs and stuff like that. Q. Okay. A. And I had full control over all of my emotions, ince I started to feel again. Q. Anxiety is another one of those words that people mean a lot of different things when they say it. When you say anxiety, what are you referring to? A. Almost makes me nauseous. Like, my stomach gets in knots. I'll feel very hot, my face gets red, my heart starts racing, my hands get sweaty. I don't know, I feel like I can't talk. Q. How long does that last for? A. That could vary. That could — sometimes its lasted for five, ten minutes; sometimes there's been times where i would — i was supposed to go out and i got fully dressed, ready, and leave my house and literally make a U-turn and go back and don't go anywhere. Page 128 1 Q. You said that at that moment I felt like —1 2 mean, how did you feel like you were back at Jeffrey's 3 house? A. I — that's just what I -- when he started 5 talking in my ear, i got a flash — I just had a 6 flashback of being at his house, and... 7 Q. Did you still realize you were at the 8 restaurant, though? 9 A. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I had -- I knew where I 10 was, but I mean the thought as soon as he started 11 whispering in my ear, i thought — I had thoughts of 12 being at his house and reliving that moment. 13 Q. And what did you do? 14 A. I walked away from the table. i told the 15 other waitress that she could handle my tables, and I 16 walked into the bathroom to... 17 Q. Did you accidentally call Leo Jeffrey Epstein, 18 or did you push him away or did you — 19 A. 'didn't — I just walked away from him. I 20 didn't take what he was trying to give to me. [didn't 21 really — I Wasn't even taking in what he was trying to 22 even say to me. All I heard was the tone of his voice 23 and how he kind of was talking lower and fast, and I 24 just didn't — I wasn't really listening but I just 25 beard the tone and how it was and, you know, it just 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 130 Q. And why do you go back? A. There — I'm just for example, I don't know, I just — Q. I mean, I don't mean to interrupt you, but you gave me an example. You're dressed, you're ready and you're going out. Why do you turn beck? A. Certain — certain little things will trigger my anxiety, and I don't want to be around anybody. I feel funny, I feel jittery, I feel like I'm going to It Q. What kind of things trigger it? A. Lite, being around — being around -- not elderly but around men that are around, you know, 50,1 • suppose you could say. Q. Well, I'm assuming if you're in your car dressed up -- A. Right. Okay. Q. — going out, i'll assuming Friday or Saturday night? A. Right. Q. This one time you're talking about -- A. lib-huh. Q. — there wasn't a 50-year-old in the car with yom A. No, there's not a 50-year-old. 3 (Pages 127 to 130) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, Electronically signed by Joann RIcciuti (601.280428-9381) INC. 248de044-bdbf4fa0.9143-50a9a76Nd36 EFTA01076071 Page 131 1 Q. So what are you-- 2 A. That's driving in West Palm, driving down 3 Okeechobee Boulevard towards his house, right down the 4 street, or even passing by or being in this building 5 right now, I had severe anxiety coming here today 6 knowing that he's probably in this building right now 7 from what 1 understand. So there's, you know, many 8 things- 9 Q. Why do you even think he's in the building 10 right now? 11 A. Well, I've heard throughout this whole time 12 that I've been in this case that he does come to this 13 building and whether he has occupations or what, I don't 14 really know or care, but I'm just saying living in West 15 Palm Beach and going — when I do go out on Friday and 16 Saturday, Igo out to Clematis or whatever and, you 17 know, basically that's the route I would take when I 18 would go to his house. That's, you know, it just brings 19 back bad memories. 20 Q. So did you leave West Palm because of those 21 memories? 22 A. Yeah. I have not really lived in West Palm 23 other than come back to my mom's house for a while 24 because I don't like being around here. 25 Q. Okay. And is there any other reasons besides Page 132 1 Q. Okay. And when is the first time you saw 2 Mr. Epstein? 3 A. The first time I ever came in contact with 4 Mr. Epstein, I was probably 14, turning 15. 5 Q. Okay. And do you know what the date was on 6 that? 7 A. No, I do not. 8 Q. Any idea, any time frames? Any 9 A. No, maybe — !want to say maybe later on in 10 the year, maybe around my birthday, October, November, 11 December of later on in the year. 12 Q. Well, how do you know 14 then? 13 A. I— that's why I said 14 Diming 15, 14 approximately around there. 15 g Okay. But how do you know it wasn't 15 16 turning 16? 17 A. Because I know that I wasn't — Thad already 18 been seeing him when I was 16. 19 Q. Okay. But, again, IS going ono 16, I mean. 20 how do you know it's not that versus 14 and 15? 21 A. No. I'm — because when I dropped out -- when 22 I dropped out being a freshman, you would a freshman, 23 you're 15. So I was either — I was probably 15 years 24 old, 14, 15, give or take, the first time I ever went to 25 Jeffrey's house, so... Page 132 1 Jeffrey that you may not want to be around here? 2 A. No, there's not. 3 Q. Because I think like some of the clubs you 4 used to work at are also on Okeechobee and things of 5 that nature, and that has nothing to do with him. 6 A. Right, but the clubs that I worked at that are 7 on Okeechobee I have worked at, I worked at when I was 8 also — after I'd seen him, l worked — I was still 9 seeing him when I would work at those clubs. And ever 10 since then, ever since I stopped seeing him, I don't 11 work in a club in Palm Beach County and I haven't. 12 Q. Okay. So where is Platinum Gold at or the one 13 that you were in -- 14 A. That's in Delray. 15 Q. Delray? 16 And what, the Cheetah Club, I think is on 17 Okeechobee? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. Okay. And when was the times you worked 20 there? 21 A. Well, there's a Cheetah Club here and there's 22 a Cheetah Club in Pompano. 23 Q. Right. So what were the times that you were 24 working at the one here? 25 A. I had to have been 18. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 134 Q. Okay. Well, I mean, that's what I'm asking is bow do you know — what external markers are you using? Are you using school or what — A. I'm using school. Q. -- do you remember a particular event or a 4th of July when you were with someone? 1 mean, how were you -- because you're kind of just throwing it out there, and — A. I don't mean to be throwing it out there. I'm just using it by my schooling, by my timeline. Q. So when did you start ninth grade? What year? A. I don't know. I'm not 100 percent sure what year it was. Q. Okay. But you saw him when you were in the ninth grade? A. I had already stopped going, yes. Q. Okay. Now, did you see him when you were in the eighth grade? A. No, I did not. Q. Okay. When did you drop out of the ninth grade? A. Probably a month into my ninth grade, two months, a month to two months. Q. Okay. And you started in August or September 4 (Pages 131 to 134) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, Electronically signod by Jean* Ricciuti (601.280428-9381) INC. 248de044-bdbf4fa0-9143-50a9a75ffd35 EFTA01076072 Page 135 1 A. Pm assuming starting in August. That's about 2 the time school starts. 3 Q. Okay. So you dropped out in September or you 4 dropped out in October? S A. I would say around October. 6 Q. Okay. So you dropped out right when, around 7 your birthday? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. In trouble with truancy officers or 10 anything like that? /.1 A. Uh-uh. 12 Q. Okay. When is the first time you met 13 Mr. Epstein? 14 A. The first — the first time I ever met 15 r.teinit was me and E. and M.'s friend, 16 , or and... 17 Q. And do you know last name? 18 A. 19 Q. How did you know..? 20 A. I met her through — I met her through my ex, 21 S and then we became friends at like a party and 22 we got to know each other more. 23 Q. So you were already dating at this 24 time? 25 A. I had already dated him and we had already 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 137 gave him a massage, and I would have to get nude during the massage, I would be paid $200. So at that time, it was a risk I was willing to take, so I went there. Q. What do you mean by that? A. What? Q. It was a risk I was willing to take. A. When I was told that I had to go somebody's house and I'd give him a massage and I would have to take my clothes off, and it was -- this was a perfectly good stranger is always a risk, I mean... Q. Okay. How big of a risk did you think it was? A. Because of the, you know — I was told that he was a brain surgeon or something and, like, he was a high powered man so 1— !mean, yeah, it was a perfectly good stranger but thinking he's, you know, got money or whatever, I didn't think that he would be a total, you know--! didn't think I was going to get raped or anything like that. Q. Okay. So just like and this may be a bad analogy, but just like going on a date on eHannony, there arc certain risks on meeting somebody you don't know - A. Exactly. Q. -- but the fact that you met him through people you knew, told you that he was respectable -- Page 136 dated and not been together. Q. Okay. So you already knew him and had broken 3 up? A. Right. 5 Q. So were you seeing anyone the first time you 6 went? 7 A. The first time I went? No,1 don't believe I B was with anybody or seen an y. 9 Q. Do you know last name? 10 A. No, I don't know. 11 Q. And she was Ws friend, so you didn't 12 already know her before -- 13 A. No. 14 Q. — and didn't hang out or anything like that? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Okay. And again, roughly, what time of the 17 year do you think it was? 18 A. For some ream', like I said,1 want to say 19 around the end of the year but ! could be wrong. I want 20 to say like around October, November, December, 21 somewhere around those months, but I could be wrong. 22 Q. Okay. And how did you end up going? 23 A. Basically, I was told that, you know keep 24 my, you know, lifestyle, how I was living at the time in 25 mind, but I was told if I went to Epstein's house and 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 138 A. Right. Q. -- you thought the chances of something bad happening, such as being raped, killed or — A. Right. Q. — disappearing were low? A. Right. Q. Okay. And I have done eHannony, and I do remember some of my dates having friends call them up and so I do understand that there are strange things in this world. Who told you ahead of time you were giving him and things like that? A. and — .. went before me, so . kind of told me about it before 1 had even gone. She told me what... Q. So did you massage him the first time you went? A. Yea. Q. And kind if you remember, can you walk me through that time? A. It was late at night and he had two of his people, two of his people come and pick me and up out at the Shell gas station off of Okeechobee and the Turnpike, and it was late at night. I want to say we probably got there around 9:00, 9:30. When we got 5 (Pages 135 to 138) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Moduli (601-2804284381) 248d0044-bdbMfa0-9143-60a9a768635 EFTA01076073 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 139 there, we rang the buzz there was like a little buzzer thing. came out or walked us in. Q. I apologize, was it a cab that came and got you or did he actually have like — A. No, he had his drivers come pick us up. Q. Okay. A. And we walked upstairs. He has like — when you first walk in his kitchen, he has a side door. It looks like it would be a closet. You open it and it's a stairwell, and you go up the stairwell and then you go right to — it's like a hallway and there's a door. You open the door and then there is another door. You open up that door and that's his bedroorsInd you walk around his bed to the bathroom. I guess M. had been there so she had already kind of knew what to do, so she got the massage table out and everything and, you know, set it up, put the towels on the way he liked,Ituess, and — Q. Do you know how many times M. had been there before she took you? A. No. Q. Okay. What had she told you about her experience going? A. She told me that she would go — that she went there, she would massage him. Halfway through, she would have to take her clothes off, that if she wanted 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 141 Q. And you had been at a couple of parties where that had happened? A. Right. Q. Okay. Had you been sexually active at this time? A. No. In the beginning of me going there, no, I wasn't. Q. you were not sexually active with, I guess, it was is his name? A. Right, no, 1 was sexually active with M. Q. Okay. Because I thought you said by the time you had gone to see Epstein the first time, you had already broken up with M. A. Right. SI. Okay. So you had been sexually active with broke up with him and then went to Epstein? A. Right. But sexually active, I was still a virgin. I mean, there are numerous ways — Q. Okay. What had you done? A. I'm sorry? Q. What had you done with M? A. He had given me oral sex, he fingered me. Q. Okay. And did you do anything to M? A. Yeah. Q. What did you do with him? Page 140 1 to keep — if you wanted to keep your underwear on, you 1 2 could, but if you didn't want to, you didn't have to; 2 3 that Liar the massage, that he would flip over. And me 3 ei and M. were friends so she, you know, would tell me 4 5 everything that happened. And she said that he would 5 6 flip over and you — he liked his nipples to be squeezed 6 7 and be would jack off. 7 Q. Okay. So you had heard all this before you 8 9 went? 9 o A. Right. 10 11 Q. All right. And when she told you this, did 11 12 she seem to be bothered by it or say, ifs just his 12 13 thing and it's not a big deal? 13 14 A. It was more like, you know, it was just his 14 15 thing and it wasn't really a big deal. 15 16 Q. Okay. Had you seen a grown man naked before 16 17 you did this? 17 18 A. No. 18 19 Q. Had you seen an age-appropriate man naked 19 20 before you did this? 20 21 A. Yeah, I suppose so. 21 22 Q. Do you remember specifically? 22 23 A. I bow that we were all younger so, I mean, if 23. 24 I was ever -- like, there was parties where people would 24 25 start skinny dipping and stuff like that, so... 25 Page 142 A. I gave him oral sex, or at least tried to. Q. Was there a problem with that? A. Well, I mean, l had never done it before so it was more of a teaming experience. Q. Okay. A. But even after me and broke up, I mean, after I lost my virginity, we had then slept together and had a sexual encounter, but that was way after the fact, like when I — but I wasn't — I don't think that it was it was a sex on occasion, you could say. And before I said tharo, meaning 1 did have sex — I did have sex with =, but I didn't — I was a virgin until I was 15 years old, so I know that when we dated, it was... Q. Okay. So you lost your virginity at age 15, correct? A. Uh-huh. Q. Who did you first have sexual intercourse with? A. (phonetic). Q. Ion sorry, I had asked that earlier, I had forgotten that. You didn't list him as a significant. How did that happen or — A. Inlet — he was older than me, and I was 6 (Pages 139 to 142) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by .leana Ric:clod (601-2804284381) 2a8de044-bdbf-4f30.9143-60a9a76ffd35 EFTA01076074 Page 143 1 really attracted to him and he had a girlfriend at the 2 time so we were just friends, and I it was just like 3 a crush. And then he had broke up with his girlfriend 4 and it was around Saint Patrick's Day, I could say, and 5 we went to this party or whatever, and he said, he said 6. he wanted — I didn't put him down as one of the people 7 1 had been with because basically he was — he just was 8 like all lie. He said he had broken up with his 9 girlfriend and sniff like that, and he knew how much I 10 lilted him or whatever, so I think it was more that he 11 knew I was a virgin and so it was like taking my 12 virginity. And i thought we were going to be together 13 and then we weren't and he went back to the girlfriend. 14 So that's how. 15 Q. And guessing if it was Saint Patrick's 16 Day, there was probably a little beer or something 17 involved? 18 A. Yeah. I'm sure that there probably was. 19 Q. Okay. So I apologize. So prior to going to 20 Epstein's the first time, and you didn't have 21 intercourse but you had sexual play- 22 A. Right. 23 Q. — for lack of a better word, with M? 24 A. Uh-huh. 25 Q. Okay. And the experience consisted of him Page 145 1 I mean, what was -- 2 A. I mean, it's not like — it's not like I 3 didn't know what, you know, jacking off was or anything 4 like that. I mean, I just took it as him getting off. 5 i mean, i didn't take it as, ew, that's nasty, I never 6 want to see that again or, you know... 7 Q. And before all this happened, has anybody had 8 a talk with you about the birds and the bees or things 9 like that? 10 A. Oh, yeah. 11 Q. And how old were you when you think you first 12 learned about sex? 13 A. Well, you know, I was a really late bloomer, 14 so I didn't develop, you know, but like a lot of my 15 friends, had lost their virginities and told me about 16 this and that and how to do this and how to do that and 17 what was good and what wasn't, and... 18 Q. Okay. So you had, again maybe a bad term, had 19 picked it up on the playground or — 20 A. Right, uh-huh. 21 Q. Do you think you were one of your kind of last 22 fiends to lose your virginity? 23 A. Yeah. 24 Q. When it happened, how did you feel about it? 25 A. When I lost my virginity? Page 144 I providing oral sex to you, as well as inserting a finger into your vagina? 3 A. Right. 4 Q. Okay. If I use any tenns you find offensive 5 or uncomfortable, please let me know. I'm trying to 6 stick with more of a medical terminology. 7 A. Okay. Q. And you had provided fellatio or oral sex on 9 him? 10 A. 1.th-huh. 11 Q. Your first time? 12 A. Ph-huh. 13 Q. Okay. How many times had you guys had play 14 before you went to Epstein's? 15 A. Maybe a handful of times. 16 Q. Had he ever ejaculated in your presence? 17 A. I mean, yeah, I suppose so. I'm trying to 18 remember. I think so, yeah. 19 Q. Okay. And what was your reaction to that? 20 A. It was all a learning experience for me so, I 21 mean, I didn't take it as — i mean, i knew that was his 22 nature or whatever, but Pm not — 23 Q. I've heard people say, hey, that's the 24 greatest compliment that a guy can pay to a woman or 25 that was kind of disgusting and I wasn't ex tin: it. Page 146 1 Q. Uh-huh. 2 A. I felt, obviously, like I lost my virginity. 3 But besides that, I felt very betrayed because of how 4 the guy did it because I really liked him, I really 5 wanted to be with him and he just definitely used me to 6 take my virginity. 7 Q. As you said, it was not the best experience? 8 A. Right. 9 Q. Okay. So were at Epstein's place. I 10 think you said M. had walked you up the stairs and set 11 up the table. 12 A. Uh-huh. 13 Q. If you don't mind, kind of picking it up from 14 there. 15 A. She set up the table, she put the towels down. 16 She had done went over everything, showed me where, 17 lire, the lotions were and we picked out a lotion. She 18 told me to take my rings off I don't know, she just 19 kind of told me to relax and he was a good guy and don't 20 really worry about it. 21 Q. Okay. Had you not taken anything before you 22 went that time? 23 A. As in drugs? 24 Q. Uh-huh. 25 A. Yes, Fm sure that I had. 7 (Pages 143j to 1 4 6) (1IIIIIIIIIIII PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signod by ,loana Ricciuti (601-280428.9381) 248de044-bdbf.4fa0.9143.60a9a76ffd35 EFTA01076075 Page 147 Page 149 1 Q. Okay. What did you take? 2 A. Probably some sort of painkiller or narcotic. 3 Q. Okay. Now, was that the first time you had 4 taken anything? 5 A. No. I had taken them before that. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. But, I mean, I wasn't big on them. 8 Q. Who -- who gave them to you? 9 A. I honestly can't remember. 10 adcooly. Was it something that either I. or 11 ve you, or was it something you may have 12 already had like earlier, like a week or two? 13 A. Yeah, like I probably already had. 14 Q. Okay. Were you nervous when you went? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. This may be an odd question, but why do you 17 think you were nervous? 18 A. The fact that I was going to give an older man 19 a massage and get naked for him for money. 20 Q. Okay. And what happened after that? 21 A. We sat on this little pink couch in his 22 bathroom, and we waited for him to walk in. He walked 23 in with a robe and took — we introduced ourselves. He 24 introduced himself to me, and I introduced myself to 25 him. He laid on the -- on the massage table on his 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21. 22 23 24 25 A. I was very nervous the whole time. Q. What about meeting him increased it? A. Just that I was, you know, really -- like him and a seemed very more open about the whole — it just seemed like they were more comfortable with it and it was something that 'I had never done and it was something new o I was just very nervous. Q. And a didn't appear to be nervous with it; is that fair? A. No. It seemed like, you know, wasn't Q. And did that help reassure you or did you still feel like maybe this isn't the right thing? A. It kind of reassured me, but I still thought to myself that I knew it wasn't right. Q. Okay. So I apologize. He made the introduction, got on the table. What happened next? A. We started massaging him. She was on the left side of him, I was on right side of him and we each massaged him, his legs, his feet, his lower back, his upper back, and he was on the phone as if he was handling business, An not really sure who he was talking to, and we massaged him for probably 30 minutes. Q. At any time during this massage or after the introduction, did you think, you know, I don't want to Page 148 1 stomach and -- 2 Q. Hold on. I'm sorry to interrupt. So he had 3 on a pink robe, came in — A. No. lie had on a white robe. We were sitting 5 on his pink couch. 6 Q. Thank you. Was he wearing anything underneath 7 his robe or A. No. And as I said, he laid on — afterwards, 9 we talked fora second, introduced ourselves, he just -- 10 Q. When he got on the table, did you see him 11 Deiced or did he always have a towel or the robe on, or 12 how did that work? 13 A. Well, when he was getting on the table, he 14 took his robe off and he had nothing underneath there. 15 And so he definitely exposed himself getting onto the 16 table. And then while we gave him the massage, he put a 17 towel, like, you know, on -- across on like his butt 18 kind of. 19 Q. Okay. And IS was still with you at this 20 point? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. And how did the introductions go? Did 23 that increase your anxiety, relieve it any, just... 24 A. 11 kind of -- it increased it. 25 Q. Okay. Page 150 1 go through with this or I can leave or... 2 A. Yeah, I did think of that. 3 Q. Why did you not? 4 A. I already figured I was halfway in it and I. S you know... 6 Q. Okay. So I've already kind of done the worst 7 part - 8 A. Right. 9 Q. — I might as well finish it up? 10 A. Exactly. 11 Q. Pm sorry to interrupt. Please go on. 12 A. After we were done massaging him, we massaged 13 him for like 30 minutes, he -- he would talk to he 14 talked to us like here and there in between his phone 15 calls. After we ws. done massaging him, he asked 16 — he asked a. to leave the room. She left the 17 room and waited downstairs. And after she left the 18 room, he asked me to, like, stand next to him and 19 like — I can't explain it. If he was laying down, just 20 stand next to him where his arm would be, like, right 21 next to him, and he wanted me to rub his chest. 22. Q. Okay. 23 A. And he wanted me to squeeze and penetrate his 24 nipples as he penetrated himself and — 25 Q. Hold on one second. Penetrate himself, you 8 (Pages 147 to 150; PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Rieeittl (601-280-428-9381) 2411de044-bdbUfa0-9143-60alkinitfcl35 EFTA01076076 Page 151 Page 153 1 have to explain that one to me. 2 A. Oh, I mean, you know, jack off. 3 Q. Okay. Because when I think penetrate himself, 4 I was wondering if - 5 A. Right, i said that wrong. 6 Q. -- he's sticking something in his rectum — or 7 sucking on — 8 A. No, no. I didn't mean that, I'm sorry. 9 Q. That's why i said. I wanted to make sure. 10 It may sound silly, but do you know which hand 11 was he using? 12 A. i would assume it was his right because i was 13 standing on his left side and he would with his other hand, with his left hand. 15 Q. So while you're massaging his chest and 16 pinching his nipples, he had a hand leached around and 17 was grabbing you? 18 A. He would reach around and grab me. 19 Q. And with his other hand he was touching 20 himself? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. Did he have a towel on at this time? 23 A. No. 24 Q. So he was totally naked? 25 A. Correct. 1 this is seven years now, six years. 2 A. Exactly. So rm trying to put the pieces back 3 together as much as p0SSible. 4 Q. Okay. And, again, if there is something 5 you're not sure on, feel free to say that. 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. I don't want to put words in your mouth. 8 A. Right. 9 Q. All right So he went until he climaxed. Did 10 he have tissues or did he clean himself off with a 11 towel, or — 12 A. Well, another thing was is before he came in 13 or when he came in — no, before he came in, there was 14 - no, when he came in, he would set his like, he had 15 a shower and lace a spa thing and you can walk — they 16 are nip next to each other, so he had — its kind of 17 like timed out where, like, when he walked in, he would 18 set it, and then basically when he was done climaxing or 19 whatever, i believe he came in his hand because i didn't 20 see him use a towel or anything like that, and... 21 Q. Did you see the semen, or... 22 A. No. Me I said, i really wasn't -- 23 Q. You weren't looking down there? 24 A. Right. 25 Q. And this may be a silly question, and if rtn Page 152 1 Q. All right. Was there anything shocking about 2 his appearance? 3 A. I mean, I didn't pay much attention to his 4 private area. I was trying not to. I mean, when I was 5 massaging him, he seemed like he kept up with himself, 6 he didn't seemed dirty or anything like that. Q. Was there anything abnormal about his penis or 8 any scars or tattoos or in this case 9 A. No. I didn't -- 10 Q. — that was surprising? 11 A. No, I didn't. But like i said, i wasn't 12 really staring at his penis so i really don't know. 13 Q. Okay. Where were you looking? 14 A. I was looking in his face or trying to, like, 15 look away, but he liked to make eye contact. 16 Q. Okay. And he was on the phone fora while. 17 Did he ever make small talk with you? 18 A. Yeah, in between. 19 Q. What were some of the things he would talk to 20 you about? 23. A. Where did i work, i think maybe. i mean, 22 there's various, many times we had small talk and i 23 honestly can't pinpoint what exactly he said on the 24 first time. 25 Q. Fair enough. And I know sometimes -- again, Page 154 1 off base, I just apologize, just bear with me. Do you 2 know how he was holding it? I mean, was he — I'm just 3 trying to imagine somebody coming into their hand and 4 not having it visible. I mean, was he holding the 5 shaft, or was it one hand over and doing something like 6 this? 7 A. i think he was just going like this -- 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. -- and when he was going to come, I think he 10 just held it. I'm not really sure. 11 Q. Okay. At any time, were you fearful for your 12 life? 13 A. No, never fearful. 14 Q. And when he was kind of grabbing you, were you 15 clothed at that time, unclothed? 16 A. No, i wasn't. I didn't have clothes on. 17 Q. At what point of the massage did you take your 18 clothes off? 19 A. Like, halfway through the massage. 20 Q. And did he ask you to do that or was that 21 something.. started to do and you just followed suit? 22 A. No, he asked us to take our clothes off. 23 Q. What in particular did he ask? 24 A. Ile asked us to take our clothes off 25 Q. So he said please get naked or did he say take 9 (Pages 151 to 154 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. (iIIIIIIIIIII Electronically signed by Jenne RIcclutl (601-280-428-9381) 248(14044-bdbf-Ofa0-9143-5049476ffd36 EFTA01076077 Page 155 1 your tops off or would you like to get more comfortable? 2 A. No. Tt was more like probably, would you like 3 to be — I don't think — 'think he just asked us to 4 take our clothes off, to be honest. 5 Q. Okay. And you took off your underwear as 6 well? 7 A. The first time I did not take my underwear 8 off. 9 Q. So when that first time, 10 you still had underwear on? 11. A. I did, right. 12 Q. And your top was on — I mean, the bra on or 13 off? 14 A. I had no bra. I was just in my underwear, no 15 socks, no shoes, no nothing. lust underwear. 16 Q. Gat you. Bad joke but, you know, ifs like 17 the Army visit where they say take everything off but 18 your socks just so you're not fully naked. 19 Okay. When he reached around and grabbed you, 20 did you ask him not to do that or don't hold tight or -- 21 A. It honestly came as a surprise. I wasn't 22 really expecting that so I didn't really say anything 23 because I didn't know what to say. 24 Q. Okay. When it was over, how did you get paid? 25 A. He had already given M. the money. Page 157 1 Q. Okay. So that's 30 times ova about a three 2 year period? 3 A. Uh-huh. 4 Q. I'm just trying to think of how the math works 5 out. So that would be and again, he may be traveling 6 too, so would it be like a once-a-week type thing 7 or would it be when he was in town every day? 8 A. Right, like or sometimes he would call 9 me when he was on the plane coming back, ■ call me 10 when he was leaving, tell me when he would come back. I 11 mean, sometimes it would be once a week, sometimes it 12 would be four times a week. Sometimes he would want me 13 to bring girls, sometimes he would want me to bring 14 myself, you know. 15 Q. Did you ever bring anybody else? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. How wary people do you think you 18 brought? 19 A. 1 brought quite a few people. A guesstimate 20 amount, I'd probably say 25 to 30 girls at least. 21 Q. Okay. And that's best guess? 22 A. Right. 23 Q. Where did you find these girls? 24 A. House parties, people I had known for a while, 25 friends that 1 had {mew. Page 156 1 Q. And do you know if.. got paid extra for 2 bringing someone new? 3 A. Yeah. 1 believe she got paid $200. Q. Did she also get paid for the part massage or 5 was it just $200 for it? 6 A. She got 200 and I got 200. 7 Q. Okay. What did you do with the money? 8 A. At the time, I was living at n's house, and 9 1 didn't really have — well, I wasn't really living 10 there yet, but it was when we first became friends, so 1 11 was over there a lot, and I basically wont and I 12 bought — I bought food, I bought underwear, I bought 13 just, I guess, survival, things you need to survive, 14 things you need. 15 Q. Okay. How many times do you think you went? 16 A. I couldn't answer that only because I went a 17 lot. I went numerous times. 18 Q. Bear with me, I appreciate that answer 19 because, again, I don't want to hold you to a number 20 that's not accurate. Ballparking it for me, 5, 10, 50, 21 100? 22 A. I would say anywhere between 30 to 50 times. 23 Q. Okay. And over how long of a period did you 24 go? 25 A. I went from when 1 was 15 to probably 18. Page 158 1 Q. What are your house parties like now? 2 A. Normally, like especially in Wellington, which 3 is a nicer part of town, you know, rich parents go out 4 of town, leave the kids at home, you know, the kids — 5 everybody would be drinking the parents' liquor and 6 getting all wild and crazy. 7 Q. And when is the first time you think you went 8 to one of those types of parties? 9 A. Probably when I was 15. Like, when I stopped 10 going to school. 11 Q. When you say you went about 30 to 50 times, is 12 that just when you gave the massage or does that include 13 when you brought someone? 14 A. That includes when I brought someone and by 15 myself. 16 Q. And when you brought someone, did you also 17 massage, or was it kind of just -- 18 A. Sometimes he would want me in there and 19 sometimes he wouldn't. 20 Q. Out of those 30 to 50 times, is it worth 21 trying to go through each time, or is there certain 22 times that just stand out more in your memory now? 23 A. There are definitely certain times that stand 24 out more than others. 25 Q. Okay. Why don't you kind of tell me about the 10 (Pages 155 to 158) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Joana Rlcciuti (401-280-4284381) 248d00444dbf4fa0-9143-5049476f(d35 EFTA01076078 Page 159 1 ones that stand out. 2 A. One time I went, I was by myself, and we went 3 through the whole massage and I was adjusting my 4 underwear the whole time. He was on the phone, as 5 normally. Most of the time he was on the phone. He 6 would try to make sane small talk in between, but 7 sometimes he wouldn't. And I massaged him and when it 8 was time for him to flip over and ejaculate or whatever, 9 and I had my underwear on. And when I stood next to 10 him, he asked me to take my underwear oO and it was 11 almost like I didn't want to, but for some reason I kind 12 of felt obligated as if that was the right thing to do 13 or it was okay to do it, and I took my underwear off. 14 And then as I was taking my underwear off, he went and 15 he got — looked as if it was like a back massager, like 16 a big round back massager. And as I stood next to him, 17 as he was e. I did not want to do it and I did 21 not really know how to say no. It was kind of awkward, 22 made it feel like it was oka and normal and natural. 23 And so he was tacking off 24 and it would be ova 25 with. Page 161 1 Q. Did you ever cancel an appointment with him? 2 A. Many times. 3 Q. Any other times that stood out? 4 A. Yeah, actually. 5 Q. Actually, I apologize. Before we get there, 6 you said you canceled many times. What would be some of 7 the reasons why you would cancel? 8 A. Well, towards the end of this whole shindig. 9 everything that had happened, he became — he would get 10 very frustrated with me. He would call me and say this 11 irl I said I was going to bring and 12 canceled out on me, and he — and it was time for 13 roe to go and I called and said, listen, this girl is not 14 picking up, I'm supposed to go pick her up in the cab 15 but she's not picking up ha phone so I don't really 16 know what to do. Pm being stood up, therefore, you're 17 being stood up. I mean, there's — I canceled on a lot 18 of times because a lot of girls would chicken out and 19 not want to go and not want to go through with it, which 20 is obvious and for obvious reasons, and he would get 21 frustrated with me, mad. Like, at the end, he really 22 was, like, you could tell that he had a problem with it. 23 And that's pretty much why I stopped even going to him 24 because, at the end, he Just was like almost yelling at 25 me, like, you know for not bringing him girls, underaged Page 160 1 Q. Okay. I know this is going to be difficult to 2 talk about, but I just want to make sure. You initially 3 used the word penetrate. You've used it once or twice before when it wasn't exactly appropriate. I want to make sure 6 A. Yeah, but there was times where — there's 3 been another time where 9 10 Q. Okay. And we'll get to that one. 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. But just with this time here, nothing was 13 inserted? 14 A. Right. 15 Q. Okay. How often had you gone before that time 16 it happened? 17 A. That was a while after. It seemed like every 18 time I went, it got — he tried to — it was a little 19 bit more lenient and more lenient and more lenient and 20 more lenient. So that was probably maybe my, I don't 21 know, fifth or sixth time going. 22 Q. Okay. Did you notice that at the time? 23 A. Notice what at the time? 24 Q. That it was progressively going nether? 25 A. Yeah, I did kind of notice that. Page 162 1 girls. 2 Q. And bear with me. There's various types of 3 yelling-- 4 (Interruption in the proceedings.) 5 DR. HALL: Yeah? Come in. 6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: I have to change the tape. 7 (A brief recess was taken.) 8 BY DR. HALL: 9 Q. We just took a little break there, had a phone 10 call. Just wondering who acre talking to. 11 A. I was talking with 12 Q. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. So just before we went to the break or 15 the tape needing to be changed out, you talked about you 16 had to cancel several times. 17 A. Right. 18 Q. And that towards the end he would start 19 yelling at you. 20 A. Uh-huh. 21 Q. I think I was in the middle of asking. you 22 know, there's different types of yelling, so what do you 23 mean when you say yelling? 24 A. Not even really like screaming, almost just 25 like using -- bcc:auk: he talks -- he seems to talk very PROSE COURT REPORTING 11 (Pa )es 159 to 162 AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeans Malted (6014804284381) 2413cte044-bdbfaa0.143450a9a781105 EFTA01076079 Page 163 1 soft and it was just a louder voice that he would use, I 2 suppose you could say. He sounded very frustrated. 3 Q. Did he ever threaten you? 4 A. No, he never threatened me. 5 Q. And I know I asked the first time you went, 6 you said that you were fearful of your life. Any other 7 times in your life that you were fearful that some 8 physical harm may come to you or something bad may occur 9 to you? 10 A. No. He never gave me that impression that 11 anything -- that he was going to hurt me, no. 12 Q. Okay. And I apologize, I don't mean to derail 13 you. You were about to talk about one of the other 14 times that stood out. 15 A. Yeah. I believe I was saying probably when 16 he I don't know, if l ever — I don't think we got to 17 talk about when he fingered me or 18 Q. No. We talked about when he used the vibrator 19 on you about the fifth or sixth time 20 A. Right. 21 Q. And then I think you were going to start on 22 that. 23 A. Right And then a couple of times later that 24 I had been there, the same thing occurred. He asked me 25 to take off my underwear, and I really didn't want to, Page 165 1 actually a better time of all the times that he didn't 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 r whatever, but afterwards he htad me sit in the sauna with him, and he was explaining that how good it is for you. I don't know exactly what it does now. He was explaining -- Q. How good the sauna was for you? A. Correct, yes. And then after we stayed — we stayed in the sauna for a certain amount of time, he explained how it opened up your pores, and then we went into the shower stuff that's good your r your n or whatever and he and and used certain, I guess, explained it all to me. So we took a shower together on one occasion. And then there was another occasion where I went there and I massaged him and he asked me by this time, it was at the point where he want( really having to ask me to take off my clothes. I kind of knew when he wanted me to take off my clothes or whatever. So as soon as I started, like five minutes into the massage, I started taking off my clothes and I gave him like a 30-minute massage. And then when it was time for him to flip over, instead of him flipping over, he said hold on a second and he walked out of the room, and he came back Page 164 so I kept my underwear on. And still halfway through, 2 he asked me to take my underwear off again. And in the very beginning, 1 just kind of ignored it, acted Ince I 4 didn't hear it. And then when he asked me again, I took 5 them off and, you know, he - at first, 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 But soon after that, like pretty much right after he took his forgers out of me, he ejaculated, Q. So you think =5? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. And you said A. No, I don't. Q. Any other times stick out in your mind? A. Yeah. There was another time where he actually — I was there by myself and I massaged him, and, I mean he didn't really try to penetrate. It was Page 166 2 even know whatirrname was. She was exotic looking, 1 with some chic, I believe her name — I don't 3 bleached blond hair, green eyes. She — I don't think 4 she spoke English, not much. I remember her telling me 5 she was 19 at the time. He had her come in and at first 6 he -- he had her lay down and he wanted Inc to straddle 7 her, so I straddled her, and then 20 A. Correa, yes. 21 And, you know, I just massaged her the whole 22 time and she was moaning and screaming and getting all 23 wild and crazy, an 12 (Pages 163 to 166 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, Electronically signed by Jeans RIcclutl (601-280428.9381) INC. 248(110444:dbf-4190.143-60.9.76rid35 EFTA01076080 Page 167 Page 169 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. And it was obvious she was definitely 4 climaxing or going to climax or whatever, and finally 5 when she was — she obviously did climax, I mean, you 6 know, !don't know, and I got off— I got off of her 7 and she went into the shower or in the sauna. And after 8 she went into the sauna and shut the door and sat on the 9 thing, he looked at me and he said, in a couple of 10 minutes, she's going to realize what happened or 11 something about either she is going to realize what 12 happened or -- something about she is going to realize 13 what happened and she is not going to believe it. 1 14 don't remember the exact words that were said, but it 15 was like, she's going to come to, you know -- what's the 16 word — reality in a little bit She is going to 17 realize what happened. He kind of laughed about it and 18 then he gave me a high five. I was like, you 'mow -- 19 then — 20 Q. Meaning that she was on drugs or that that was 21 such an overwhelming experience or pleasure for her? 22 A. I'm assuming it was such a wonderful pleasure 23 for her. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. That's how it sounded more so to me. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 168 1 Q. Thank you for clarifying that because that 1 2 could go either way. 3 A. Right, okay. 4 And there was another time. Do you want me to 5 tell you about that? 6 Q. I just have a quick question because 1 asked 6 7 earlier what your preference was, and you said men. 7 8 Have you ever had any other experiences with a woman 8 9 before? 9 10 A. No. 10 11 Q. So this was the first — was this the only 11.