1 not in evidence.

123 1 not in evidence. 2 A Could you repeat the question for me? 3 I'm sorry, Mr. la 4 Q Yes. The three-year period between 2002 5 and 2005 when you were engaging in sexual conduct 6 with isn't it true that that conduct took 7 place on more than 50 occasions? 8 MR. PIKE: Same objections. 9 A I believe if you read your own client's 10 FBI statements, what her statement -- it changed 11 dramatically after she decided to file a 12 different lawsuit, at the request of you and your 13 firm, with one of your firms -- there have been 14 many firms it seems, was accused of major fraud. 15 Since the testimony has changed dramatically, I 16 would like to answer those questions, but today 17 my attorneys have advised me I must assert my 18 Sixth Amendment right, my Fifth Amendment right 19 and my Fourteenth Amendment right. 20 Q ** Your answers are not going to 21 incriminate you if the answer is "no," it is only 22 if the answer is "yes" that it will incriminate 23 you, so aren't you telling the jury every single 24 thing I've asked you is not part of a fraud, just 25 happens to be true, isn't'it? EFTA01695773 124 1 MR. Objection, argumentative, 2 irrelevant and move to strike. I'm simply 3 going to instruct the witness not to answer 4 that question because... I don't understand 5 it. I don't know what to say about that 6 question. 7 A (Gesturing.) 8 Q All of the things that I've told you or 9 that I've asked you about, you touching her while 10 she was underage, you paying her for sexual 11 conduct, those are all things that really 12 happened, there is nothing about that, that 13 anybody has fabricated or made up, is there? 14 MR. Objection, argumentative, 15 speculative, it assumes facts not in 16 evidence, it certainly mischaracterizes the 17 witness's testimony all day, since I have 18 been here, and I have been here the whole 19 time. It assumes facts not in evidence. It 20 is also overbroad and substantially compound 21 because you're attempting to incorporate all 22 of your questions today into one question. 23 MR. I think you know, Mr. 24 your objection should be limited to 25 the form. If you object to the form, it is EFTA01695774 125 1 fine. 2 MR. I'm sorry, that's -- 3 MR. You -- 4 MR. You've asked me several times 5 today to tell you why. I thought I was 6 helping. I'm sorry. I certainly will keep 7 objecting to -- 8 MR. Appreciate it. 9 MR. -- the form. 10 MR. Thank you. 11 0 And your answer is? 12 A Repeat the question. 13 O Every single allegation that has 14 made and I have now questioned you about in terms 15 of your sexual involvement with they are 16 all true; isn't that correct? There is nothing 17 fabricated about any of these allegations, 18 correct? 19 MR. Objection, argumentative, 20 speculative, compound. It is vague, 21 overbroad 22 MR. You're objecting to form? 23 MR. Yes, assumes facts not in 24 evidence and lacks predicate. That is 25 form. EFTA01695775 126 1 A And I would like to answer that question 2 specifically today, however, on advice of counsel 3 they've suggested I take the Sixth amendment -- 4 assert my Sixth Amendment, Fifth Amendment and 5 Fourteenth Amendment rights under the U.S. 6 Constitution, keeping well aware of your firm's 7 responsibility in the largest fraud in Florida's 8 history by crafting sexually charged lawsuits 9 against people like me and others. 10 I believe in addition, since her 11 allegations, as you've phrased them, have changed 12 dramatically since her sworn statement, until in 13 fact, after she joined this firm charged with 14 this major fraud and most of her statements have 15 changed, I believe, so... 16 Q You remember when IIII became pregnant 17 when she was 16 years old, don't you? 18 MR. Form, relevance, move to 19 strike? 20 A I would like to answer each one of your 21 questions here today, Mr. each and every 22 one of your questions. However, today my counsel 23 has told me I must assert my Sixth Amendment, 24 Fourteenth Amendment and Fifth Amendment rights 25 under the U.S. Constitution. EFTA01695776 127 1 Q Isn't it true that when was 14 2 years old, 15 years old and 16 years old, you 3 touched her genitals? 4 A Separate from the fact that in her own 5 testimony, her own sworn testimony under oath 6 before she decided to file a lawsuit for money, 7 there was never any discussion about anything 8 like that. I would like to answer that question, 9 but my attorneys have advised me, at least today, 10 that I must assert my Sixth Amendment, Fifth 11 Amendment and Fourteenth Amendment rights under 12 the U.S. Constitution. 13 Q Isn't it true when she became pregnant 14 at age 16, you no longer interacted with her 15 sexually but still demanded that she bring you 16 other underage minor females for you to sexually 17 exploit? 18 MR. Objection, speculation. 19 Compound. Harassing, and assumes facts not 20 in evidence. 21 A I believe her testimony changed 22 dramatically from her sworn statements to the 23 FBI -- 24 Q That's not a responsive 25 MR. Excuse me -- EFTA01695777 128 1 MR. It is not a responsive 2 answer so I won't allow -- 3 MR. That -- 4 MR. We'll move to strike it. 5 Let's have an answer to the question. 6 MR. The witness is trying. If 7 there is a legal basis for your moving to 8 strike, it would be taken up with the Court 9 and you can move to strike. 10 You can continue. 11 MR. Strike it, it is 12 nonresponsive? 13 A Your allegations that you keep throwing 14 at me, relate to the fact that IIII testimony, 15 after giving a sworn statement to the FBI, 16 changed dramatically after she decided to file a 17 lawsuit for money, joining your firm that's been 18 accused by the U.S. Attorney of one of the 19 largest frauds in Florida's history. I would 20 like to answer those questions; however, on 21 advice of counsel today I must assert my Fifth 22 Amendment, Sixth Amendment and Fourteenth 23 Amendment rights under the U.S. Constitution. 24 Q When IIII was a pregnant 16 year-old, 25 she brought you at least ten underage minor EFTA01695778 129 1 females during her pregnancy; isn't that true? 2 MR. Objection, argumentative, 3 speculation. It is vague and assumes facts 4 not in evidence and lacks predicate. 5 A I -- I -- I unfortunately would like to 6 answer that question as well as every other 7 question you've asked me here today, but my 8 attorneys have advised my I must assert my Fifth 9 Amendment, Sixth Amendment and Fourteenth 10 Amendment rights under the U.S. Constitution. 11 Q After IIII had her son at 16 years old, 12 and you were being criminally investigated for 13 some of the conduct that we've discussed here 14 today; isn't it true that you personally hired 15 and retained and paid for an attorney to 16 represent 17 MR. Objection, speculation -- 18 MR. Object to the form, Mr. 19 20 MR. I will not. I am allowed to 21 assert the basis for my objections, I am not 22 limited to just saying "form." I'm able to 23 assert the basis as to why, so I don't waive 24 that basis. 25 MR. It is just more of this EFTA01695779 130 1 obstructionist -- 2 MR. It's not obstructionist, it 3 is objecting to form. What is 4 obstructionist is what we are doing now. I 5 will be finished within four seconds. So I 6 am going to object to form, it's 7 argumentative, speculative and it assumes 8 facts not in evidence and it lacks 9 predicate. That's it. 10 A I'm sorry. (Witness shrugs.) Again? 11 Q The response to the question. 12 A I don't know the question. 13 Q You don't remember the question? Did 14 you hire IIII an attorney at some point in time? 15 Do you remember that? 16 MR. Same objection. 17 A Not to the best of my recollection. 18 Q Do you know 19 A ... Do I know I don't 20 believe I've ever met 21 Q Is it your testimony today then that you 22 never paid for an attorney to represent 23 A (Witness shakes head.)... On advice of 24 my counsel, I would like to answer that question, 25 but on advice of counsel I'm going to have to EFTA01695780 131 1 assert my Sixth Amendment, Fourteenth Amendment 2 and Fifth Amendment rights against -- excuse me, 3 Sixth Amendment rights of the U.S. Constitution. 4 Q And that attorney that was paid for by 5 you, informed IIII that if she were to tell the 6 FBI exactly what happened at your house, that her 7 son could be taken from her. You're aware of 8 that, correct? 9 MR. Same objections. 10 A I recognize, I believe she made one of 11 the statements at her deposition after she 12 decided to sue me for a bunch of money and your 13 firm has represented a number of... cases of a 14 sexually charged nature that turned out to be 15 fraudulent in order to fleece local investors. 16 The U.S. Attorney described your firm and these 17 cases as a bogus scheme, and I'm aware of that, 18 and would like to answer your question in more 19 detail today, Mr. however my attorneys 20 advised me that at least today, I must assert my 21 rights under the Sixth Amendment, Fourteenth 22 Amendment and Fifth Amendment. 23 MR. It is the food. 24 MR. I didn't want him in the 25 room in mid answer. EFTA01695781 132 1 THE WITNESS: Ready? Thank you. 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the video 3 record 2:29 p.m. 4 (Pause in the proceedings.) 5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the video 6 record 2:50 p.m. 7 Q Isn't it true, Mr. Epstein, that you 8 gave IIII money to coerce her into interacting 9 with you sexually? 10 A Mr. I would like to answer each 11 and every one of your questions here today, but 12 unfortunately, like I've done with mostly all of 13 your other questions, I'm going to have to assert 14 my rights, Sixth Amendment, Fourteenth Amendment 15 and Fifth Amendment on advice of counsel. 16 Although I would like to answer, if I don't 17 follow my counsel's advice, I risk losing 18 representation. 19 Q While committing these sexual acts 20 against IIII when she was just a minor, you knew 21 it would psychologically damage her; isn't that 22 true? 23 MR. Form, lacks predicate, 24 speculation. 25 A I intend to respond at some point to -- EFTA01695782 133 1 I would like to respond to each and every one of 2 your questions, but today on advice of my counsel 3 they've required me to.assert my Fifth Amendment, 4 Sixth Amendment and Fourteenth Amendment rights 5 under the O.S. Constitution, though I would like 6 to answer each of these questions. 7 Q In fact, you deliberately and 8 intentionally caused severe emotionally distress 9 to underage minor females, including isn't 10 that true? 11 MR. Objection, argumentative, 12 speculation, it is compound. And it assumes 13 facts not in evidence. 14 MR. Okay. 15 A I would like to answer that question, as 16 I would like to answer all of your other 17 questions today regarding However, my 18 attorneys today have advised me that I must 19 assert my Sixth Amendment right to effective 20 representation and my Fifth Amendment right and 21 my Fourteenth Amendment right. Though I would 22 like to answer that with specificity, I must 23 follow my attorney's advice. 24 Q Will you admit for the jury that you 25 were investigated federally for your illegal EFTA01695783 134 1 activities with underage minors? 2 N.R. Same objections. 3 A I would like to answer that question, as 4 well as all the other questions you've asked me 5 here today, especially since your firm has been 6 accused by the federal, I guess, the federal 7 government,... being considered a criminal -- you 8 firm has been considered and investigated as 9 being a criminal enterprise using sexually 10 fabricated, sexual cases... fabricated cases, to 11 fleece investors out of millions of dollars, but 12 I would like to answer your questions; however my 13 attorneys have demanded that I assert my rights 14 under the Sixth Amendment, Fifth Amendment and 15 Fourteenth Amendment. 16 Q In fact, as a result of that 17 investigation, you, as well as the United States 18 Attorney's Office entered into what has now been 19 known and referred to as the nonprosecution 20 agreement; isn't that correct? 21 MR. Same objection. The document 22 speaks for itself? 23 A You have to repeat the question. 24 Q As a result of the criminal 25 investigation into your activities with minor EFTA01695784 135 1 females, you reached a resolution with the United 2 States Attorney's Office, in what has now been 3 described as the nonprosecution agreement; is 4 that correct? 5 MR. I'm going to object. Vague, 6 confusing, misrepresents the agreement and 7 the document is the best evidence. Will you 8 mark it? 9 MR. I can mark it. We will 10 • copy it at the end and mark it as Exhibit 2. 11 (Document, Nonprosecution Agreement, was 12 deemed,marked as Exhibit number 2 for 13 identification, as of this date.) 14 A Yes. 15 Q In that agreement, there are listed 16 co-conspirators of Jeffrey Epstein, those being 17 18 (phonetic) and Can you explain 19 to the jury what those individuals did for you 20 related to the crimes that were investigated by 21 the federal government? 22 A Co-conspirators? 23 Q Yes, it says "criminal charges against 24 any co-conspirators of Epstein including but not 25 limited to EFTA01695785 136 1 or Can you explain to 2 the jury what each of those four individuals did 3 for you or conspired with you to do? 4 MR. Object to the form of the 5 question? 6 A I would like to answer that question, 7 however, today my attorneys advise me that I must 8 assert my Sixth Amendment, Fifth Amendment and 9 Fourteenth Amendment rights under the U.S. 10 Constitution. 11 Q Isn't it fair to say that you, as well 12 as the co-conspirators, operated as an organized 13 criminal enterprise designed to sexually exploit 14 underage minors? 15 MR. Object to argumentative, 16 speculation. It is vague and it assumes 17 facts not in evidence. 18 A Are you suggesting it was a criminal 19 enterprise? Is that the words? 20 Q Yes. 21 A Though I would like to answer that 22 question today, I think the only criminal 23 enterprise that I have been reading about today 24 was your firm, that's been accused of being a 25 criminal enterprise involved in defrauding EFTA01695786 137 1 people, using mail fraud, wire fraud, money 2 laundering, the operation of the enterprise -- 3 this is by the U.S. Attorney (indicating), but 4 though I would like to answer your questions with 5 specificity today, on advice of counsel, though I 6 would like to answer it, they demanded I assert 7 my Sixth Amendment, Fourteenth Amendment and 8 Fifth Amendment right or I risk losing their 9 representation. 10 Q Did you care about any of the underage 11 minor females at the time when you were engaging 12 in sexual conduct with them? 13 MR. Objection, argumentative. 14 Harassing, already been ruled upon by the 15 Court relative to this exact question. 16 MR. I feel comfortable with 17 the question. It goes to punitive damages. 18 The issue related to the Court was a 19 repetitive question on that topic or around 20 that general subject matter. I'm just 21 asking for Mr. Epstein to tell the jury how 22 he felt about these girls, whether he cared 23 about them, when he was engaging in illegal 24 sexual conduct with them. 25 MR. Counsel, I'm going to EFTA01695787 138 1 instruct him not to answer the question. 2 You can certify it to the Court, if you 3 like. You know what the answer is going to 4 be; however you're attempting to lace this 5 video. You know the Court has already 6 ordered that these types of questions are 7 not permitted because they are argumentative 8 and harassing. In fact, other questions 9 bordered but this question is on exact point 10 with the Court's order. If you want to 11 withdraw the question, that's fine. 12 MR. I don't want to withdraw 13 the question. 14 MR. Then I instruct him not to 15 answer. 16 MR. Mark that somehow, that 17 page, so we can find it in the record, 18 relative to the hearing that will be had on 19 that question and others similar. 20 Q At the time when you were engaging in 21 sexual conduct with underage females, you knew 22 that exposing them to this, was not beneficial or 23 good for these girls; isn't that true? 24 MR. Objection, argumentative, 25 speculation, assumes facts not in evidence. EFTA01695788 139 1 Lacks predicate. 2 A Though I would like to answer that 3 question, like most of your other questions here 4 today, on advice of counsel I must assert my 5 Fourteenth Amendment, Fifth Amendment and Sixth 6 Amendment rights. Though I would like to answer, 7 if I do so, I risk losing my effective 8 representation of counsel. 9 Q Isn't it true, Mr. Epstein, that the 10 only thing that you cared about was accessing as 11 many underage females as possible, for the 12 purposes of sex? 13 MR. Argumentative, speculation, 14 harassing. 15 A What's the question? 16 MR. And assumes facts not in 17 evidence. 18 Q Isn't it true that the only thing that 19 you cared about when you were interacting with 20 these underage females in a sexual manner, was 21 ejaculating or your own personal gratification? 22 MR. Form, same exact objections. 23 A Though I would like to answer that 24 question, and to the ladies and gentlemen of the 25 jury, I would very much like to answer that EFTA01695789 140 1 question; however, today my attorneys have 2 advised me I must take -- assert my rights under 3 the Fourteenth, Sixth and Fifth Amendments of the 4 U.S. Constitution, or else I risk losing their 5 representation. 6 MR. And Mr. just so we 7 don't have to come back on the question that 8 I instructed him not to answer, if you would 9 go ahead and repeat that question, I will be 10 more than happy to let him respond. 11 MR. I don't remember the 12 question we will take it up with the Court 13 and we'll get a ruling on it. 14 MR. It was whether or not he 15 cared about these -- I believe you quoted it 16 as underage minors, but I would like the 17 court reporter to read back the question 18 just to conserve judicial resources and not 19 go back. So if she can reread the question 20 that would be good. 21 MR. If you can find the 22 question. 23 THE COURT REPORTER: Certainly. 24 MR. I think I know it. 25 0 Did you care about any of these underage EFTA01695790 141 1 minor females that you were engaging in sex with, 2 at the time when you were engaging in these 3 sexual activities? 4 MR. Same objections, as before. 5 A Though I would like to answer that 6 question as well as most of your other questions, 7 if not all of your other questions here today, on 8 advice of counsel I will have to assert my 9 Fourteenth Amendment right, my Sixth Amendment 10 right and my Fifth Amendment right, because no 11 matter how much I actually want to answer that 12 question, if I do so I risk losing my counsel's 13 representation. 14 Q At the time you were engaging in sexual 15 activity with these underage minors, including 16 you knew that this conduct was illegal, 17 didn't you? 18 MR. Same objections. Form. 19 A I would like to answer that question, as 20 well as most of your other questions here today; 21 however, today my counsel has instructed me to 22 assert my Fourteenth Amendment, Sixth Amendment 23 and Fifth Amendment right, and if I do not, and 24 if, in fact, I answer that question -- if I can 25 answer that question, I potentially risk losing EFTA01695791 142 1 my effective counsel's representation. 2 Q In fact, you told many of these underage 3 minor females not to tell anybody what happened 4 with you in the house, or else they would be in 5 trouble; isn't that true? 6 MR. Form. 7 A I would like to answer that question, as 8 well as the other questions; however, my counsel 9 has advised me that today I must assert my 10 Fourteenth Amendment, Sixth Amendment and Fifth 11 Amendment rights under the U.S. Constitution. 12 O The underage minor females that have 13 come forward with information about your sexual 14 interactions with them have been investigated, 15 harassed, humiliated in an effort for you to 16 intimidate them to go away. Is that true? 17 MR. Objection. Argumentative, 18 speculative, compound. It is overbroad, and 19 assumes facts not in evidence. 20 A Can you repeat the question? 21 Q Sure. Any underage minor female that 22 you engaged in sexual activity with, that has now 23 pursued a lawsuit against you, isn't it true that 24 you've spent a lot of money and a lot of 25 resources investigating them in an effort to EFTA01695792 143 1 intimidate them and hopefully make them go away? 2 MR. Same objections. 3 A I believe your client's testimony 4 changed dramatically when she joined up with you 5 and your law firm, accused of fraud, when she 6 decided to change her testimony, at least from 7 what the statements said, both to the police and 8 to the FBI, and decided to seek money. However, 9 anything above that or beyond that, I'm going to 10 have to, in fact, assert my Fifth Amendment, 11 Sixth Amendment and Fourteenth Amendment rights 12 as directed by my competent counsel. 13 Unfortunately, they have told me if I don't, I 14 risk losing their representation. 15 Q All right, I'll give you a chance here 16 since you keep bringing up her statement to the 17 FBI as opposed to her sworn testimony for 13 18 hours under oath in this case. Are you saying 19 that the sworn testimony to the FBI was, in fact, 20 the truth? 21 A What I'm saying is, it seems her 22 testimony has changed dramatically after she 23 joined your firm, that's all. 24 Q Okay. Irrespective of her testimony, 25 you've read her testimony and you read her EFTA01695793 144 1 testimony -- to the FBI. You watched her 2 deposition when it was being taken. Which -- 3 A You're making assumptions, I'm sorry. 4 MR. Let him finish the question. 5 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 6 A My fault. 7 MR. Then I'll object and you'll 8 respond. 9 Q Which are you saying is the truthful 10 testimony, her statement to the FBI or the 11 videotaped deposition that you watched? 12 MR. Object to the form. 13 A What I've said, and I think I'll repeat 14 myself is until she joined your firm and started 15 to seek money, her testimony was different. 16 That's my understanding. 17 Q Are you denying any sexual involvement 18 with IM at this time? 19 MR. Form. 20 A I would like to answer that question. I 21 would like to answer it as with most of your 22 questions here today; however, my attorneys have 23 advised me that I must take that -- assert my 24 rights under the Sixth Amendment, Fourteenth 25 Amendment and Fifth Amendment, no matter how much EFTA01695794 145 1 I would like to answer that question, or 2 potentially risk losing my counsel. 3 Q Isn't your game plan with all of these 4 civil lawsuits that have been filed against you, 5 to spend as much money as you can to investigate, 6 and harass these young women into hopefully 7 dropping the lawsuits against you? 8 MR. Objection. Relevance. Move 9 to strike. It is argumentative and 10 harassing. 11 A I would like to answer that question. I 12 think you know the answer to that question. 13 Q Yes. 14 A (Witness nods.) However, today my 15 attorneys have advised me I must assert my Sixth 16 Amendment rights, my Fourteenth Amendment rights 17 and my Fifth Amendment rights. 18 Q You don't have any remorse for the 19 sexual abuse that you committed against do 20 you? 21 MR. Objection. It is 22 argumentative. It is harassing. It is, I 23 believe, confined under the Judge's order 24 and it assumes facts not in evidence? 25 A That being said, I would like to answer EFTA01695795 146 1 that question today, but my attorneys have 2 advised me that I must assert my Fourteenth 3 Amendment rights, my Fifth Amendment rights and 4 my Sixth Amendment rights. 5 Q In fact, you recently sued didn't 6 you? 7 A Yes, and you and your firm that's been 8 accused of the largest fraud in Florida's 9 history, described by the U.S. Attorney as a 10 criminal enterprise involved in money laundering, 11 conspiracy to commit one crime -- excuse me, mail 12 fraud, commit conspiracy to commit wire fraud. 13 Yes, I sued you, your firm and 14 Q ** Tell the jury -- 15 A Yes. 16 Q -- the basis for the evidence that you 17 have to support the allegations in the complaint 18 against I'll 19 MR. I'm going to instruct the 20 witness not to answer that question in this 21 medium, as it is wholly irrelevant 22 currently, as were it, to this particular 23 lawsuit. 24 MR. Just so you can rethink 25 that position, the lack of remorse goes to EFTA01695796 147 1 punitive damages, that is an aspect of the 2 case that IIII has against Mr. Epstein. 3 MR. This lawsuit, the current one 4 Mr. Epstein is noticed for, and the lawsuit 5 in which Mr. Epstein has filed against the 6 former Rothstein, IIII and 7 Mr. is not proper for this 8 medium -- 9 MR. I understand your 10 position. 11 MR. -- in that regard, I'm going 12 to instruct him not to answer any questions 13 relative to that lawsuit because of that 14 objection, as well as, it is my 15 understanding that Mr. has set Mr. 16 Epstein's deposition, I believe, either 17 early next week or mid-March, on the case of 18 Epstein versus RRA, Rothstein, and 19 Mr. as well as IIII 20 Therefore when that time approaches, that 21 would be the appropriate time for those type 22 of questions, related to that lawsuit. 23 MR. I understand your position 24 completely, Mr. 25 MR. Thank you. EFTA01695797 148 1 Q ** But as it relates to, obviously IIII 2 sued you making the allegations that you sexually 3 molested her from when she was 13 years old to 4 when she was 16 years old and now you've sued her 5 in something that is seemingly related to that 6 case, and I just want to understand what your 7 factual basis is, or what evidence you're using 8 to support your lawsuit against so that the 9 jury can he valuate whether that is evidence of 10 lack of remorse that would go to punitive damages 11 claims that IIII has against you. 12 MR. I would instruct him not to 13 answer that question, for the same reasons 14 stated. 15 MR. Let's mark that. 16 Q Is it your feeling that because you are 17 wealthy and these children are poor, that you are 18 entitled to sexually abuse them? 19 MR. Argumentative. 20 Q In speaking about these children, and 21 including IIII 22 MR. Argumentative, speculation, 23 compound, it's vague, and it assumes facts 24 not in evidence. 25 A In keeping with your firm's propensity EFTA01695798 149 1 for filing fellacious (sic), manufactured, 2 sexually charged cases, based on nothing but thin 3 air, accused by the O.S. Attorney of the largest 4 fraud in South Florida's history, by 5 manufacturing sexual cases, I would like to 6 answer each and every one of your questions, 7 including why I sued you, but today I'm not going 8 to be able to. I have to simply listen to my 9 counsel and assert my Sixth Amendment, Fourteenth 10 Amendment and Fifth Amendment right. 11 Q This answer that you keep reciting, 12 about the Rothstein, firm -- 13 A You do know who they are, right? 14 Q -- you are aware, obviously, that all of 15 the lawsuits that were filed against you, 16 including were filed at least a year 17 before, or approximately a year before Rothstein, 18 had any of these cases; you're 19 aware of that, right? 20 MR. Form. 21 A I do not know when got 22 involved in these cases. I do know that the 23 moment that they did surface, and, in fact, I 24 understand you shared information with all the 25 other attorneys that you so -- that the jury EFTA01695799 150 1 should understand that the information 2 gathered -- according to the U.S. Attorney, by 3 illegal means, has been shared with all the other 4 attorneys that you keep representing have filed 5 cases against me; yes, I'm aware of that. 6 Q I don't understand that answer. 7 do you -- 8 MR. Do you have a question? 9 MR. I want to understand what 10 his answer was. As in all depositions, if 11 you don't understand the answer, clarify the 12 answer. 13 MR. No, you have to ask a 14 question. 15 MR. I did. And he's 16 responding to it. 17 MR. The witness has answered the 18 question. Do you have another question to 19 clarify his answer? 20 MR. Yes. 21 Q Please clarify your answer. 22 MR. I will instruct him not to 23 answer. It's vague and confusing, it's 24 narrative. 25 MR. Me saying "clarify your EFTA01695800 151 1 answer" is narrative? 2 MR. What do you mean by "clarify 3 your answer? 4 MR. I didn't hear what he 5 said. Say it again so I can hear it. 6 MR. Would you please read back 7 what Mr. Epstein just testified to, madam 8 court reporter. 9 (The record was read.) 10 MR. Okay. 11 MR. It was an answer, a 12 question -- 13 MR. I understand -- I mean I 14 don't understand the answer, but now I know 15 the answer. 16 MR. Okay. 17 Q At this point in time, please tell the 18 jury what is your defense of the claims being 19 asserted against you in this lawsuit by 20 MR. I'm going to object. Calls 21 for a legal conclusion. 22 A What are the claims? So since you're 23 representing can you tell me what the 24 claims are? 25 Q Yes, we've gone through it. She went to EFTA01695801 152 1 your house when she was 13, 14, 15, 16 years 2 old -- 3 A Is that a claim? 4 Q -- she was in your bedroom. You 5 instructed her to get naked. 6 7 You coerced her into recruiting other 8 underage minor females, roughly 50 or so more. 9 These are all claims that have amounted 10 to various counts, coercion, prostitution, 11 intentional infliction of emotional distress, 12 battery, committing various crimes against her. 13 What are your defenses to that? Normal defenses 14 are "I didn't do it," "I did it, but it didn't 15 hurt her," we are trying to understand so we know 16 how to provide this case to the jury, what are 17 your defenses to these allegations? 18 MR. I'm going to object to this 19 line of questioning. It is compound; as 20 worded it could call for disclosure of 21 attorney/client information as well as work 22 product. I believe in this particular case 23 there is a document filed, answer in 24 affirmative defenses, and the affirmative 25 defenses are set forth there and the EFTA01695802 153 1 document there speaks for itself. 2 MR. Okay. 3 Q Respond. 4 A The document speaks for itself. 5 Q ** So you agree with the affirmative 6 defenses that were filed in your case? If you 7 were to testify, we could expect that to be your 8 testimony? 9 MR. That's not what the witness 10 testified. The witness testified that the 11 document speaks for itself, and again, I'm 12 going to object to attorney/client, work 13 product and instruct the witness not to 14 answer. 15 0 I'm not asking what your legal defense 16 is. I'm asking: What is your response to the 17 claims? 18 MR. Same objection. 19 Q What is your personal response? 20 A I would like to respond to that 21 question. I would like to respond today to that 22 question; however, today my attorneys have told 23 me that I cannot respond. They've asked me to 24 assert my Fourteenth Amendment, Sixth Amendment 25 and Fifth Amendment rights of the U.S. EFTA01695803 154 1 Constitution, though I would really like to 2 respond. They are telling me if I did so, I will 3 lose risking their representation. 4 Q I know you've invoked your Fifth 5 Amendment rights related to many of these 6 questions, but isn't it true you recently 7 contacted at The New York Daily News 8 and spoke to him about s case as well as 9 several of the other girls, who have claims 10 against you? 11 A Who? 12 Q New York Daily News. 13 A Can you repeat the question? 14 Q Didn't you recently, within the last 15 year, contact of The New York Daily 16 News and discuss these cases that have been filed 17 against you and the allegations made by these 18 various females? 19 MR. Form. 20 A I would like to answer that question, 21 but unfortunately today my attorneys have advised 22 me I cannot. They've advised me I must assert my 23 Sixteenth -- excuse me, my Fourteenth Amendment, 24 Sixth Amendment and Fifth Amendment right, so 25 therefore, I will do so. EFTA01695804 155 1 Q Why is it that you will talk to 2 about this but you will not talk to the jury 3 about this? 4 MR. Form. Argumentative, 5 speculation. Misstates the witness's 6 testimony. It assumes facts -- the question 7 assumes facts not in evidence and now lacks 8 predicate. 9 A So who is again? 10 Q reporter with The New York 11 Daily News. Did you not talk to him? If you 12 didn't talk to him, tell me that. That's fine. 13 MR. Same objections. 14 A I would like to tell you answers to each 15 one of your questions, however today my attorneys 16 have demanded that I respond by asserting my 17 Fourteenth Amendment, Sixth Amendment, Fifth 18 Amendment privilege, though I would like to 19 respond, but they said if I do so, I risk losing 20 their representation. 21 Q Didn't you tell these 22 underage minors were not victims at all and that 23 regardless of their age, you did not personally 24 consider them victims? 25 MR. Same objection. EFTA01695805 156 1 A (Laughter.)... Did I tell... I would 2 like to answer that question, but today on advice 3 of my counsel, I must -- as I have done with 4 mostly each one of your questions, I have to 5 assert my Fifth Amendment, Sixth Amendment and 6 Fourteenth Amendment rights under the U.S. 7 Constitution. 8 Q You were 51 when was 14, and you 9 were interacting with her sexually. Is it your 10 testimony that despite'the disparity in age you 11 do not consider IM to be a victim? 12 MR. Argumentative, speculation, 13 assumes facts not in evidence. Compound, 14 lacks predicate. 15 A Not only does it contradict your own 16 client's statements to the FBI under sworn 17 testimony, I would like to answer that question. 18 Hopefully one day I can answer that question, but 19 today my attorneys have said I cannot. They 20 advised me I must assert my Sixth Amendment, 21 Fifth Amendment and Fourteenth Amendment rights. 22 Q In the last ten years, what is the 23 youngest underage minor female that you have 24 interacted with sexually? 25 MR. Argumentative, speculation, EFTA01695806 157 1 assumes facts not in evidence. 2 A The answer to that question is -- I 3 would like to give you an answer to that today, 4 but my attorneys have advised me I must assert my 5 Fourteenth Amendment rights, my Sixth Amendment 6 rights and Fifth Amendment rights. 7 Q Do you know 8 A Doesn't ring a bell. 9 Q Former housekeeper/employee of yours, 10 worked at the Palm Beach house? 11 A Could. Don't know. 12 Q So you would be unable to answer what 13 did for you? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Are you aware that our investigator 16 spoke with former housekeeper 17 for you, or housemanager for you, out in 18 California? 19 A No. 20 Q Any reason why when asked about the 21 activity that occurred in your house, he would 22 tear up and say, "I was hoping to forget 23 everything I saw"? 24 MR. Objection, argumentative. 25 Speculative. Assumes facts not in EFTA01695807 158 1 evidence. 2 A Again, the question? 3 0 Is there any reason that when asked -- 4 A I don't know who he is. 5 MR. Also, hearsay. 6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Counsel? 7 MR. Go ahead. 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the video 9 record 3:23 p.m. 10 (Pause in the proceedings.) 11 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the video 12 record 3:30 p.m. 13 Q This person that I asked you about, 14 is that somebody who has 15 contacted you within the last six months? 16 A ... No. 17 Q In taking a break and thinking about 18 some of these questions, have you remembered who 19 that person is, or still no real memory of him at 20 all? 21 . A No real memory. 22 Q To the best of your knowledge, he never 23 worked for you? 24 MR. Form. 25 A Not that I can recall, but there are EFTA01695808 159 1 lots of people who work for me, so... 2 Q Can you tell the jury who the various 3 people are that work for you now? 4 A I believe I answered that question 5 already. 6 Q In that you invoked your Fifth 7 Amendment, correct? 8 A That's correct, Sixth Amendment and 9 Fourteenth Amendment. 10 Q Eigthteen and twenty-first? 11 A (Witness shrugs.) 12 MR. Move to strike. 13 Q ** Have you, during this litigation, and 14 by "this litigation," I don't only mean 's 15 case, but the various other lawsuits that have 16 been filed against you by other females alleging 17 sexual misconduct by you against them. Who have le. you retained attorneys for, what witnesses have 19 you retained attorneys for? 20 MR. Object to the form. 21 MR. Okay. 22 MR. I'll instruct him not to 23 answer because I don't understand the 24 question. Okay? 25 MR. All right. EFTA01695809 160 1 Q During this civil discovery and 2 litigation -- 3 A Um-hum? 4 Q -- have you paid for, and/or retained an 5 attorney for any other witnesses? 6 A Any other witnesses? 7 Q Yes, like I'll give you an example that 8 you may, just to refresh your recollection or 9 tell you what I'm talking about, Lowella Rabuyo; 10 you know who that is, right? 11 A Yes. 12 Q She is someone to works for you now, 13 she's a housekeeper. We took her deposition 14 already. At least that's what her testimony 15 was. 16 MR. Form. 17 A I would like to answer that question but 18 I have to assert my Sixth Amendment, Fourteenth 19 and Fifth. 20 Q That somebody who has informed us that 21 you paid for and obtained an attorney by the name 22 of to represent her during this 23 process. Is that -- 24 MR. Form. 25 A I have to assert my Fifth Amendment, EFTA01695810 161 1 Sixth Amendment and Fourteenth Amendment, right. 2 Q Other people that have indicated that 3 you retained and paid for an attorney to 4 represent them are 5 6 Ghislaine Maxwell, your brother, Mark Epstein, 7 8 , David Rogers, Have I 9 missed anybody else that during this litigation 10 you've paid for or retained attorneys? 11 MR. Form, same objection. 12 A I'm not clear. Are you suggesting I've 13 paid for attorneys for all these people? 14 Q Yes. 15 A (Laughter,) I would like to answer those 16 questions today, but on the advice of counsel I 17 have to invoke my Sixth Amendment, Fifth 18 Amendment and Fourteenth Amendment right. 19 Q If you have not, tell me which of those 20 on that list that you have not paid for or 21 retained attorneys for? 22 MR. Same objection. 23 A Same answer. 24 0 You're invoking your Fifth Amendment, 25 right? EFTA01695811 162 1 A And Sixth Amendment and Fourteenth 2 Amendment... and Fifth Amendment. 3 0 ** Is it a company or is it you, 4 personally, that is paying for the attorneys' 5 fees related to your representation? 6 MR. I'm going to object to the 7 form. I'm going to instruct him not to 8 answer that question based on relevance; and 9 it is vague also. 10 Q Who is writing the check to your 11 attorneys for your representation in this 12 lawsuit? 13 A (No response.) 14 Q Who is paying the bill? 15 A I believe I am. 16 0 And is it you, personally, or is this 17 one of your corporations or companies? 18 MR. Form, speculation. 19 A I'm not sure. 20 Q As you sit here today, you're not really 21 sure whether it is coming from one of the other 22 corporations that we've discovered during 23 discovery or it is coming from you, personally? 24 Is that correct? 25 N.R. Asked and answered. EFTA01695812 163 1 A I believe -- I would like to answer but 2 I have to invoke my Sixth, Fourteenth and Fifth 3 Amendment rights. 4 Q As it relates to any of the other 5 witnesses who have had attorneys retained for 6 them, is it also your response to invoke your 7 Fifth Amendment rights, rather than to provide me 8 with an answer, as to who is paying the bill for 9 those attorneys? 10 A I would like to answer those questions, 11 but today my attorneys have asked me not to 12 respond to any questions that may be relevant to 13 this lawsuit, so I must follow their advice and 14 invoke the Sixth Amendment, Fifth Amendment and 15 Fourteenth Amendment, right. 16 Q Have you interacted sexually with any 17 underage minors in the last year, while on house 18 arrest or work release from jail? 19 MR. Objection. Argumentative and 20 compound and lacks predicate. 21 A I would like to answer that question, 22 but on advice of counsel, at least today, they've 23 advised me I must invoke my Sixth Amendment, 24 Fourteenth and Fifth Amendment right. 25 MR. It is also overbroad. EFTA01695813 164 1 Q If me narrowing down will help you to 2 respond, I will. Is there any need for that? 3 A (Witness shakes head.) 4 MR. Okay. 5 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 6 Q Is it your intent to interact sexually 7 with minors in the future? 8 MR. Same objection. 9 A I would like to answer that question, 10 but today my counsel has advised me I must invoke 11 the rights of the Sixth Amendment, the Fourteenth 12 Amendment and the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. 13 Constitution. 14 Q Are you currently treating with a 15 psychologist related to any sex addiction that 16 you have with minors? 17 A I would like to answer that question, as 18 well, as most of the other... questions you've 19 asked me today; however, on advice of counsel 20 they've asked me to invoke my Sixth Amendment, 21 Fourteenth Amendment and Fifth Amendment right, 22 therefore, though I would like to answer that 23 question, as well as the other ones, I risk 24 losing the representation if I do so. 25 MR. Moreover I'm going to object EFTA01695814 165 1 to relevance as I have in the past since Mr. 2 Epstein's medical history is not at issue in 3 this case; under the legal terms. 4 Q You would agree, wouldn't you, that you 5 targeted these underage girls including 6 because of their young age? 7 MR. Argumentative, speculative, 8 harassing. Assumes facts not in evidence. 9 A I would like to answer that question, as 10 well as most of the other questions you've asked 11 me here today. My counsel has advised me that I 12 must assert my Fourteenth Amendment, Sixth 13 Amendment and Fifth Amendment right. Though I 14 would like to answer those questions today... if 15 I do so, I risk losing their representation. 16 Q You would also agree, wouldn't you, that 17 you targeted these underage females for sex, 18 including because they were poor? 19 MR. Same objections. 20 A I would like to answer that question. I 21 would really like to answer that question, as 22 well as the other questions you've asked me here 23 today, however, on advice of my counsel they've 24 demanded that I assert my Fifth Amendment, Sixth 25 Amendment and Fourteenth Amendment rights. If I EFTA01695815 166 1 answer that question, I risk losing their 2 representation. 3 Q You would agree, wouldn't you, that you 4 sexually molested IIII for three years? 5 MR. Same objection. 6 A I think you've asked me that question 7 before. I assert the same rights as before. 8 Q That's the Fifth, Sixth and Fourteenth 9 amendments, just so the record is clear? 10 A Yes. 11 Q You would agree, wouldn't you, that you 12 coerced IIII into prostitution? 13 MR. Same objections. 14 A I believe her own testimony reflects, at 15 least the sworn statement to the FBI, reflects 16 that that is not the case; and though I would 17 like to answer that question in great detail, I 18 cannot do so today on advice of counsel, that 19 have asked me to assert my Sixth Amendment, Fifth 20 Amendment and Fourteenth Amendment rights. If I 21 do so, I risk losing their representation. 22 Q You would agree with me that you groomed 23 IIII into becoming a prostitute? 24 MR. I'm going to object. 25 Argumentative, speculative. Certainly lacks EFTA01695816 167 1 predicate and assumes facts not in 2 evidence. 3 A You know I would like to answer that 4 question, but I can't today. Under advice of 5 counsel I have to assert my Fourteenth Amendment, 6 Sixth Amendment and Fifth Amendment rights. If I 7 answer the question, I risk losing their 8 counsel. 9 Q You would agree, wouldn't you, that you 10 brainwashed IIII into believing that this 11 lifestyle of prostitution was right? 12 MR. Same objections. 13 A I would like to answer that question, as 14 most of your other questions here today, Mr. 15 On advice of counsel today, I'm going 16 to have to assert my Fifth Amendment, Sixth 17 Amendment, Fourteenth Amendment rights. If I 18 answer that question, I risk losing their 19 representation. 20 Q Would you agree that your interaction 21 with IIII when she was a minor, was degrading to 22 her? 23 MR. Same objections. 24 A I would like to answer that question. I 25 would like to answer all of your questions here EFTA01695817 168 1 today; however, my counsel has advised me that I 2 must assert my Fourteenth Amendment rights, my 3 Sixth Amendment rights and my Fifth Amendment 4 rights, and though I would like to answer those 5 questions, if I do so I risk losing their 6 representation. 7 THE WITNESS: Can we take a ten-minute 8 break for some air? 9 MR. We have 15 minutes and 10 we're done. 11 THE WITNESS: Continue then? 12 MR. Okay. 13 Q Would you agree that you intentionally 14 indoctrinated IIII into this very deviant sexual 15 lifestyle? 16 MR. Okay, I'm going to object. 17 It is argumentative. It is confusing. It 18 is speculative, vague, lacks predicate and 19 assumes facts not in evidence. 20 A And on top of that, I would like to 21 answer that question, but my counsel has advised 22 me I must assert my Fourteenth Amendment, Sixth 23 Amendment and Fifth Amendment rights under the 24 U.S. Constitution. Although I would like to 25 answer all your questions today, I cannot do so EFTA01695818 169 1 risking losing their representation. 2 Q Would you agree that you were personally 3 responsible for destroying her life? 4 MR. Same act objections. 5 A Her life? 6 s? 7 A I would like to answer that question, 8 and I understand how your firm has been accused 9 of fabricated sexually charged lawsuits in order 10 to fleece investors locally in South Florida. 11 The U.S. Attorney has called your law firm a 12 criminal enterprise based on filing fellacious 13 (sic) sexually charged cases. Although I would 14 like to answer that question today, Mr. 15 and Mr. my counsel has told me that I have 16 to assert my rights under the Sixth Amendment, 17 Fifth Amendment and Fourteenth Amendment, and if 18 I don't do so, I risk losing their 19 representation. 20 Q We have a factual basis for asking every 21 question and making every allegation. I want to 22 provide you with a last opportunity to tell the 23 jury which of these allegations, if any, being 24 made by are false or fabricated in any 25 way? EFTA01695819 170 1 MR. Same objections. Mr. 2 you know the tenor of that question 3 cannot be answered without waiver of Fifth, 4 Sixth and Fourteenth. I appreciate the 5 question and the semantics of it, but it 6 is... It is -- can you rephrase it? 7 MR. Yes. 8 Q Many times -- you know the allegations 9 now, we've gone through them, s allegations 10 and assertion of facts as to what happened 11 between you and her when she was 13, 14 and 15 12 years old and you were 50, 51, 52 years old. 13 Several times you responded saying something 14 about Rothstein, something 15 about her FBI statement, what have you; I want to 16 give you a chance to tell the jury, which of her 17 allegations, if any, that you believe now are 18 false or fabricated in any way. 19 MR. Same objections. 20 A I would like to respond to that 21 question, the fact that her firm, the law firm 22 representing her has been accused by the O.S. 23 Attorney of being a criminal enterprise, 24 manufacturing, fabricating, out of thin air, 25 cases involving sexual allegations, sexual EFTA01695820 171 1 allegations in order to simply fleece local 2 investors out of millions of dollars, so I would 3 very much like to answer that question regarding 4 the truthfulness of s allegations; however 5 today my counsel has told me that I must assert 6 my Fifth Amendment rights, Sixth Amendment rights 7 and Fourteenth Amendment rights under the U.S. 8 Constitution, though I would very much like to 9 answer that questions but if I do I risk losing 10 their representation. 11 Q Would you agree you owe at least 12 $15,000,000 to compensate her for the damage 13 which you have caused? 14 MR. Objection. I move to 15 strike. Argumentative. Compound. Lacks 16 substantial predicate. Assumes... facts... 17 not in evidence. 18 A As you might imagine, though your law 19 firm has been accused of perpetrating a fraud 20 involving millions and millions of dollars, on 21 unsuspecting investors here in South Florida, 22 millions of dollars by fabricating similar 23 allegations, convincing people to give money to 24 the firm that helped bring this lawsuit, I'm 25 afraid I would like to answer those questions but EFTA01695821 172 1 no matter how much I would like to answer those 2 questions, I am going to have to decline based on 3 my counsel's advice to invoke, at least today, my 4 Fifth Amendment, Sixth Amendment and Fourteenth 5 Amendment rights under the U.S. Constitution; 6 because if I don't, I risk los