Document text
Forms to be Filled out for Each Interview
FORM A
Circumstances of Intervicw
STATE New York
NAME OF WORKER Wayne Walden
ADDRESS 51 Bank St. New York City
DATE October 24, 1938
SUBJECT CONVERSATION IN A PARK UNION SQUARE
1. Date and time of interview
October 19, 1938
2. Place of interview
Union Square, New York City
3. Name and address of informant
FOLKLORE
NEW YORK
Gus, Slim, Noisy, Bronx Looey,
Redeye, Mack, Ben and others who were neighter so
articulate nor convincing.
4. Name and address of person, if any, vino put you in
toucn with informant.
5. Name and address of person, if any, accompanying you
6. Description of room, house, surroundings, etc.
(Use as many additional sheets as necessary, for any of the forms, each
bearing the proper heading and the number to which the material refers.)
FORN,
Personal hi,:tory of Infoewapt
STATE New York
NAME OF VORKER WAYNE WALDEN
ADDUESS 51 Bank St. NYC
ava October 24, 1938
SUBJECT CONVERSATION IN A PARK (UNION SQUARE)
1. Ancestry
From observation, these various individuals were of
all racial types --a cross-section of an American group.
2. Place and date of birth
Mostly young men, between ages 26 and 30.
FOLKLORE
NE v: YORK
3. Family
4. Placeo .Alth datet,
5. Education, with dnes
6. 03cupations nnd accomplishmentF, with dates
7. Special skills and interests
8. Community and religious activitles
9. Description of informant
10. Other Points gained in interview
FORM C
Text of Interview k Uneditel)
STATE NEW YORK
NAMEOFmxiliErt Wayne Walden
Amuss 51 Bank St. NewYork City
DATE October 24, 1938
SUBJECT CONVERSATION IN A PARK UNION SQUARE
FOLKLORE
NEW YORK
Gus:- Naw you got me all wrong. If you ain't got
the historical perspective, and you got to consider this historically
as karx---
Slim:- (interrupting) Just a minute, just a minute.
Now when you produce a surplus
Gus:- I know all that 'bout producing a surplus,
but Marx specifically says in the foist volume of Das Kapital---
Slim:- Wait a second, wait a second; didn't Marx
show concerning this very point, that the value of a commodity is
Gus:- Sure he did, but listen and I'll tell you.
The trouble with you guys is that you
Slim:- Only as we understand the economic mode
prevailing in any given society can you
Gus:- For Christ's sake, ain't that what I been
tellint you? Historically now, from the time of
Slim:- I'm listening, but get down to facts. Marx
never contended
Gus:- Who the hell's denying it? But you lose
sight of the fact that the value of a commodity is determined by
Slim:- Alright, all -right; but there's a distinction
between labor and labor power and marx insisted
Gus:- You're tellint me! Listen won't you, and get
it right. Marx held that as the Capitalist system reached
Slim:- You jump around like an old woman; didn't
Marx specifically say
Redeye:- You said it, but the bushwah ain't goin'
to set back
Gus:- Marx held, now get me right --Marx held that
historically the
Noisy: But in the first place, how in hell you
Gus:- Marx held that as the proletariat, which he
termed distinctly as the instrument for
Slim:- But stick to your argument; Marx said you
can't jump ahead of the machine, which means
Noisy:- Say didn't Charlie Marx predict that --well,
for instance, how about
Redeye:- Naw, you got it twisted. You're thinkinl of
Plate, a bushwah who wanted to
Bronx Lboey:- But the cata but the categorical imperatives
of Plato ain't yet been knocked out. For instance
Noisy: Hey Looey, is it right you found out there ain't
no Santa Claus?--- and that you ain't going---
Looey:- Aw, quit trying to be funny. If I was as wise
as you are I'd go and
Noisy: Gimme a cigarette somebody--anybody--any kind
of cigarette---
-3
Ben: When did you ever buy a pack of eigareetes. I
been a feedin' em to you since
Mack: Say, will you mental featherweights pipe down
'stead of disturbin' a philosophical argument with a lot of
Gus: (meditatively puffing a bummed cigarette) Now
take that bird lecturing last night -if ever a guyballed up on
economics -no wonder there's so many dumb
Ben: Say, wasn't he a pain in the neck? Imagine him
saying that the Hegelian philosophy was
Gust If the guy hadn't made such a fool of himself
when he tried to dodge my question he'd a---
Looey: Say, Gus, maybe you can tell me, but isn't the
basis of Plato's position the basis of
Gus: Why if that bozo had ever read Spinoza, or even
Kant, let alone Joseph Dietsrpgen, he would of
Redeye: How 'bout this guy Spengler -ain't he a
bushwah? He's now predicting or anyhow he's doing a lot of calamity
howling that is supposed
Gus: Yeap, Spengler has 'em dizzy now, just as they're
getting over the headache caused by Einstein's relativity, and next
they'll be
Jack: 1Nother yahoo was --Oh, what was his name?
he wrote a book or something and
Noisy: I'm writing the Great American novel. She's
goinl to be a masterpiece, boys"how to be happy though hungry."
Then I got another, which will be liRow to be pretty though pregnant".
Gimme a cigarett and I'll let you see the picture of a broad I
Ben: That's the trouble with him; it ain't the class
-4.
struggle so much as the skirt-strugglel--listen to him and you'd
Noisy: Where Wye get that noise? Why, you poor fish,
if you had a got
Mack: Tie a can to that stuff, will you, and for
Christ sake keep your trap closed a minute. And have you got the
price of a cup of coffee?
Gus: Take Slim there -where he falls down as a sound
Marxian, as he thinks he is, is when he says that
Slim: I didn't say any such a damned thing. What I
did say, was that Lewis H. Morgan, when he differentiated—.
Gus: But your contention is a priori a priori for
this reason. Beginning with primitive communism
Slim: But how you goin' explain the
Gus: But that ainft what I'm drivint at -if you'll
keep your bazoo out of it a minute and lemme explain
Noisy: Silence, Silence, everybody -go ahead and perform Gus
the floor's yourn. Tell 'em that one 'bout the
Ben: Why don't you go and take your beauty nap? Really,
that guy don't know whether Christ was crusified-or struck by a switch
engine. A more
Gus:- For instance, according to Spencer, and. I agree
with him that evolution is an integration of matter and concomitant
Noisy: I tried a whole week to learn that to Ben here,
bat the poor fish would get all
Slim: But what the hell's that password to the hobo
college got to do with what I was saying? That the trouble, when I--
-5
Gus: Yes sir, Spencer agrees with me pretty well
an indefinite inchherent heterogeniety; and
Noisy: Listen to that, would you! Did Charlie Marx
get that off his chest, or was it Schopenhauer? A guy tat can pull
that kind of stuff
Mack: The screws in your head, Noisy, are rattlin'
again; you
Jack: Wasn't that guy, Spencer, in the can during the
war? If I ain't mistaken he was in the same cell as me for awhile
and
Noisy: Oh, please, let me shake your hand! Wot a
man. Wot a man!
Ben: Who? Him or Spencer --or do you mean me?
Slim: (to Gus) What you was saying about evolution
is taken for granted, but even a child would know
Jack: But what has evolution got to do with the
question? It seems to me if a guy wants to believe his grandpap was
a monkey, why
Gus: Well, from the looks of the old gink he must a
been -but as Huxley answered Bishop what's his name---
Slim-As for Spencer, I suppose his position was logical
enough for the time he wrote, but
Gus: Why, hell, even Aristotle---
Looey: Aristotle? Somebody was tellin' me 'bout him-
lemme see; wasn't he the
Slim: All I can say is, as Engles says, that changes
in the mode of production mean
Jack: Buto to get that said production, you gotta be
organized for it, and until you get---
-6
Slim: Who doesn't know that? But who's talking about
that anyway? What I'm trying to point out is
Noisy: Did you ever hear this one? There was an
Irishman went into a restaurant, and he
Mack: Aw, can that chatter, will you; you're buttin'
in on a philosophical discussion with a lot of
Noisy: So is your old man. What the hell you.
Gus: See, that's the way it always goes; you run off
the mouth on a lot of immaterial, irrelevant and
Redeye: Goes to show what I been saying -the workers
need
Looey: This winter will show pm. Statistics show that
a hard winter is coming and maybe that '11 wake some of 'em up and
Gus: Ah, ha, our old friend Karl againl I don't give
a damn what you say, you got to come around to that old bird just
the same. I was arguing with a buck the other day, and I was pointing
out what Lester F. Ward---
Looey: There was a smart man --when he wrote an ode
to a skylark --he was a deep thinker alright, you can't get away from
Gus: Well, anyway I was tellint this buck, see, that
Ben: Say I know a good one about a buck, it seems
Slim: (to Gus) Now, getting back to where we was, when
you produce a surplus--
Gus: Just as I was tryinl to tell you while age -just
as Thornstein Veblin says if you got the historical perspective, you
(etc., etc., etc.)
FURY 0
EY tra C011111.1011t
STATE NEW YORK
NAME OF WORKER Wayne Walden
MMOTSS 51 Bank Si., New York City
DATE October 24, 1938
SUBJECT CONVERSATION IN A PARK UNION SQUARE
FOLKLORE
NEW YORK
I am not sure that the foregoing is "folk -stuff" or
folklore but it is a fairly faithful recording of an actual
"conversation" as I heard it in Union Square, New York City.