Document text
December 14, 1938.
Record of Interviews with Portuguese
Fisherman, to date.
From Notebook. (unrevised)
Alice D. Kelly
Description and impression of living room., house of
informant.
Very much like American Cape Cod parlours of early
nineteen hundreds. Apparently.brought little from old country
except tinsel pictures i.e. kind of mosaic made, I think of
coloured mica. Mostly religious subjects...group photographs
and some glass ware and vases. HOUBO immaculate. Must have
acquired cleanliness from Yankees. On my one trip to the Azores
beauty of country much obscured by filth in streets and houses.
Temperature kept higher than average American house and less
air admitted. Coffee invariably on stove...home made mine offered
almost never hard liquor. Men drink whiskey outside, if any.
Women don't drink at all. Wife, Rosa, just come in from Church.
Still wears shawl over head except Sundays. Children speak
Portuguese only with parents...all born in this country. Manuel
is very glad to talk, but gets self conscious if any notes are
taken. Shall have to make records immediately on leaving...
Manuel owns this house but grudges taxes...met of them seem to
feel that rent is legitimate expense but taxes are just a gift
tp government. Evidences of side lines in business. Rosa makes
Notebook A. D. Kelly. 2
cakes and pies for sale, rents small apartment third floor of
house. Manuel himself, between fishing trips runs his boat on
excursions for tourist trade, rents himself out with buzz saw
for fireplace wood, and has privately an interest in a package
store down Cape.
Q. You were grown up when you came over here weren't you, Manuel?
A. I was nineteen. My old man came over and my mother and three
of us.
Q.
From Lisbon or the Azores? (Note; great rivalry between
lIsladers' and Lisbon men. Lisbon considered superior.
Cape Verde people called tBravas' and generally have some
negro blood).
A. My mother's from Lisbon. She moved to the islands when she
married my father. We come from---- Island off Gibraltar.
(Note, mast ask someone for correct name and locale his
pronunciation peculiar and his idese of geography vague)
Q. The Captain (his father) was a fisherman, wasn't he?
A. Sure. We're all fishermen. My grandfather, too, in the
islands. I wouldn't be anything else. I tell my wife sometimes
the seals my mistress. Makes her mad. She thinks I'm crazy.
(Rosa. Don't talk that way to Miss Alice, You sound tough.
(Note. I have been down here off and on since I was fourteen and
am still 'Newish Alice to the old timers who knew my people
and knew me before my marriage)
Manuel. I got to be tough. You can't be a fisherman and be soft.
What is it you want to know about fishing?
A. It's a good life. You got to be strong and there used to be
0 big money in it. Not no more though. Now the middleman he
gets everything and they don't pay the prices anyhow. Some-
times you might as well throw away the catch.
Q. You do throw a lot of fish overboard sometimes don't you?
A. Sure. It don't keep forever. Give it away or throw it away
if you can't sell it. I think it's like this, the government don't
know the conditions of fishing. You make -a big lot of money some
seas ona, then for a long timewetre brOke,..we got_ta_mt_ good __
prices_.___Ethere's a lot of things to think of, See? Like Sts---\.
And then sometimes the fish don't run so good... there's good and
>).m. toad seasons for fish just like crops to a farm. Ever think of __...)
ill that?
Notebook A. D. Kelly 3
Q. No. Why is it?
A.' can't always tell. Sometimes waters get too cold and
drive the fish away. Sometimes the feed's not right. This
year was a terrible year for scollops, but good for tunny...
It goes like that._(Note._ Must check information of this
kind)._Then*theire's credit we UZed-to-get-evedit-eight-
m year maybe...Now it's tough to get three: months.
Money's scarce, they say, but I dunno. There's plenty for
mortgage houses, for projects, for new playground... I tell
you, people don't appreciate the fisherman. Look...we made
the Cape.
You Mean the fishing industry built it up?
A. You bet She built it up. We're the Portuguese pilgimz (very
,proud of this, repeated it three or four times) Us and the
American fisherman. -19'41) made Gloucester, too. I was up
there a couple years. I fished all over, out of Chatham,
out of Gloucester everywhere...When first came here there
wasn't nothing but Sand and a few houses and docks and boats.
We used to dry the codfish out on the Dunes there'd be
pretty near miles of it spread out. The whole place stank
1 of it.
I remember that. And the-wailings, too.
4. Yes. The women used to get down to the beach and yell and
pray when there was a storm. They stopped it, though.
Anyways the fish was running like an army those days.1 They
started the cold storages and say, there was years they paid
,txcjand_three_hundred percent on your
Q. But not any more?
A. I'll say. Anyways there was fisherman all up and down the
Cape. The old Whalers went out then. Cap!n. Avila down here,
he found a chunk of ambergris once. And fishing off the
Grand Banks was a gold mine. You'd get so much you couldn't
load it all...times you'd be up two three nights cleaning...
up to your knees in it and half frozen...
Q. And that was really what brought prosperity to the Cape?
A. Sure it was. More of us come over from the islands and sent
for our families and our friends. The Yankees went in with
us. We had a great fleet. Fished mostly on shares same
like now but we took in more. Then the artists they come
down. And they thought it was picturesque...they must have
painted a hundred miles of nets and boats and docks. And then
the writers heard about it and the summer people. But we
Notebook A. D. Kelly 4
started it. Even now they'll ask you to take them out in
the boats and they ask questions. It seems that fishing's
kind of romantic to some people.
/(Row: DT MaybeTitTs a fishermen they like. The city folks
act crazy. Not you, Miss Altee)
410 It doesn't sound very romaktic to me. It sounds like a lot
of grief and hard work. What is it you like about it?
Couldn't you make more money on land.
A. Women don't like it. They get afraid because of the drownings
and the storms and like that. They like to keep a man home
warm and safe. But I wouldn't want to work on land all the
time. Lots of the men do when they get older, but not me.
I feel at home with elLboat-under my feet. I'm a good fisher-
man, maybe I wouldn't do so good with a regular land job.
Do you remember fishing in the old country?
A. I used to go out with my old man when I Wasn't bigger than
Jo here (Jo is a grandchild, about eight) I could work most
as good as a man time I was fourteen.
Q. Wasn't it pleasanter over there? I mean, it's warmer,
isn't it?
A. The sea's about the same everywhere, and the fish. The sky's
prettier over there. Bluer. The American sky's more threaten-
ing.
Q. Are the methods very different?
A. I don't remember they were when we first come over, but of
course we have better equipment now. But maybe they have in
the islands too.
Q. Have you ever been back?
A. Yes, two or three times but i didn't fish. Didn't stay long
enough. It's awfully old fashioned back there.
clo You like it better here?
A. Oh, I like it a lot better. A man can get somswheres here.
Q. Even when fishing doesn't pay?
A. Well, what I mean, your children can get a good education,
there's more progress here. The kids are too fresh though.
They don't have any respect for the old folks.
Notebook Alice D. Kelly 5
Q. I'd like to hear some stories about your experiences. I
mean things that happened to you when you were out fishing.
You must have a lot of interesting things happen.
A. Oh, you bet. I don't know if I can think of anything right
now but there's a lot of those old stories...I'll think
them up....My wife'll remind me...
(Note. Must concentrate on anecdotes one whole interview
or more. Will have to get over his self consciousness)
4. What type of fishing do you do mostly?
A. I go out to the traps. I put some pOts out, too. (Lobsters)
I started in on the crew of a seiner.
Q. Now you own your own boat?
A. My brother and me to-gdther.
414. It must be quite a responsibility owning your own boat?
A. It is. You get to keep her in repair and carry your insurance
on her. If she gets battered up in a storm it can eat up
a lot of profit. And then besides you lose time when she's
up for repairs. But it's better to own just the same. When
there is any profit you get most of it. And you can borrow
on her...you got something to leave your family.
OtA It must be hard to save when there are so many ups and downs.
A. You won't find many fishermen nowadays got much of anything
saved. We Most of us belong to one of these burial insurance
societies...But the widows of most of us wouldn't have much if
we went. That's why a man's foolish not to buy a house if he
can, even if he has to have a pretty big mortgage and that's
why it's good to own your boat. The Portuguese aren't as
good for business as the Yankee fisherman.
4.
But most of your wives do something, don't they?
A. Yes. They rent rooms and when the kids are old enough they
work out for the summer folks. But I don't like that. I
like my wife to be home. If she wants to bake or maybe take
in a little washing or sewing, why, I don't mind. Of course
as soon as the kids get jobs they help out. They aren't like
the American girls and boys, spend all their money. They
expect to help out.
4. Some Americans do, too.
Notebook A. D. Kelly 6
A. Not like the Portuguese. A Portuguese son or daughter
don't keep no money for theMself if the home needs it.
Not unless they get married. And a good son don't get
married if his mother needs his pay. There's v.school‘
teacher here. .young girl...Last year her father didn't
make anything. She's keeping the whole family. She
won't get married till her family's all right.
Q. That doesn't seem quite fair. Don't you think she has
a right to her life?
A. You can't let your father and mother want. I gave my
father half my wages when he had bad seasons after I was
married and had two three children. Americans don't feel
for the family like we do.
Q. Do you have any troubl6 working with Americans?
A. I am American. I belong to the Portuguese American club.
Q. I mean, born Americans.
A. Well, on land the Portuguese and Americans don't always
get on so good. But we fiSh to-gether all right. It's
different out in the boats.
How?
A. There's the same rules for everyone. The rules for a captain
and crew are the sake everywheres and we all want the same
things...a good catch and a good market. We get on good
on the sea.