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into Judea, they kept saying to Hezekiah now do not
deceive your people, but have all of them come out to
me and we'll take you to a land likened to your own and
the land flow with milk and honey. Don't let Hezekiah
deceive you saying that your God will deliver you.
Anyway, what happened was as Hezekiah had listened to
the Prophet Isaiah, Hezekiah had repented his sins,
asking God for forgiveness. And Hezekiah prayed to
God, saying Lord God of heaven, thou art the only true
and living God and all the gods of the earth are idols
and they are no gods.
Now, we've come to the birth and there's no
strength to bring forth, so please save us and deliver
us that all the world may know that there is a true and
living God is Israel. So what took place was, is that
that night the angel of the Lord went forth and smote
185,000 of their warriors and they perished. You see,
we all know Christ is coming soon.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH= That gospel's been preached for
a long time, hasn't it?
HENRY: Um-hum. It certainly has.
MR. KORBSH= Yes. And everyone is supposed
to be like Christ, aren't they?
HENRY: Right.
MR. KORESH: Okay. But the question is is
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1 the world ready for the coming of Christ in glory?
V Well, God never said he would come in glory the second
time. The scriptures tell us, as the Gospel of Peter
tells us, look for the salvation that shall be brought
5 to you in the end of the world at the revelation of
6 Jesus Christ. We find in Hebrews Paul tries to explain
7 to the Christian church that we who are of the spirit
8 dwell in the heavenly sanctuary, a sanctuary where the
9 man of this world can never contaminate, they cannot
10 pollute it, they cannot contaminate it, because it
ll revolves around God who speaks through his word, the
seven seals.
And, you know, like I say, unless we fear
God, unless we fear his word --
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: -- you know, the appearance of
17 the thing, just like 2,000 years ago, who really
believed that Christ was Messiah?
HENRY: That's right.
92 MR. KORESH: You know?
21 HENRY: That's right.
M. KORESH: And why did he have to die? He
says father, I pleadeth that thy remove this cup from
me. But if it be not removed except I drink it, not my
25 will but they will be done. Taken from Psalm 60, where
it says Lord, thou has shown thy people hard things.
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Well, the seven seals are pretty hard things. Thou has
made us to drink the wine of astonishment. Psalm 75,
Messiah is talking to the, to the heathen and he says I
said to the fools do not foolishly, and to the wicked
lift not up your horn on high, speak not with a stiff
neck, for know that promotion comes neither from the
east nor the west nor the south, by the north in Orion
-- past Orion in heaven in the northern part of the
universe, the father has exalted and promoted Christ
above all heaven, hasn't he?
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: Right? Okay. It says in Psalm
75 - We're having a lot of babies crying around here
now.
HENRY: Are they okay?
MR. KORESH: I guess they're -- Why are the
babies crying so much? Unidentified female voice in
background not discernible.! Yeah, can you give them
some bottle or some, some breast or something?
Unidentified female voice in background not
discernible.! Please? Yeah, she wants some milk.
Okay. Anyway, so we're stuck in a corner right now, my
friend.
HENRY: How do you feel right now?
MR. KORESH: Well ~-
HENRY: Physically?
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MR. KORESH: In Psalms - I don't know, it's
like this. Christ says he has the key of David, right?
HENRY: Um-hum.
p MR. KORESH: He can open and no one can shut?
I HENRY: Um-hum.
M. KORESH: It's taken from the prophecy of
Isaiah 22, for God promises to overthrow the ungodly of
his land. He's going to take away the power of the
ungodly and reestablish his kingdom.
HENRY: Uh-huh.
MR. KORESH: He says in that day I'll rise up
my servant -- Yeah, he says Eliakim, which means Godll
raise up Eliakim. It says on that day I'll lay upon
his shoulder the key of David and he shall open and
none shall shut, and he shall shut and none shall open.
And it says they shall lay upon him all the glory of
his father's house. Now, unless you know who Eliakim
is, you won't know who his father is. But it says you
shall lay upon him the offspring and the issue.
But, you know what that is. That's children,
isn't it? Offspring?
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: Yeah. Well, that's where you
get the first seal at. The man on the white horse, the
first thing that I try to teach people in Psalms in the
first seal, you know, the man on the white horse is
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that you've got a bow, right?
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: And he's also got a crown,
right?
HENRY: Umhum.
M. KORESH: He goes forth conquering and to
conquer, right?
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH= Well, then what happens is you
find the truth of that in the 45th Psalm.
Unidentified male voice in background not
discernible.! They're on the roof with ropes?
HENRY: What?
MR. KORESH: They're on the roof with ropes
right now.
HENRY: N0
MR. KORESH:
HENRY: NONo.
The guys are seeing them, right?
No, that's not possible. That's
not possible. We made an agreement.
M. KORESH
ropes.
HENRY: NO
MR. KORESH
HENRY: We
Nobody can be there.
MR. KORESH:No, they're on the roof with
No. That's not possible.
They're right up there.
made an agreement. They can't --
Make sure. Ask again.
Steve? Like I say, I feel so
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sorry for you guys. _
do --HENRY: What we want, what we're hoping to
MR. KORESH: I know what you want, but you
don't understand. Look at how much - Look, did Jim
Jones ever get this kind of slander? Look --
HENRY= We don't want anybody -- We certainly
don't want you to be slandered.
the one
church
is bad.
temple
Spirit
you'll
isn't iMR. KORESH: Listen, let me explain again.
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: Okay, look, in Psalms 45, God's
speaking. And when you come up hither to my
-- See, it's the spirit and the world, the world
There is no temple on God, to be honest. The
of God must be in you and it must be in truth.
and in truth, okay? When you come up hither,
see God on a throne. That's what's written,
t? When you read things, you don't really see
it, you just see it in your mind, don't you?
HENRY: Umhum.
MR. KORESH: And our mind must be renewed
with the knowledge of God, correct?
HENRY: Um-hum. _
MR. KORESH: That's why God has chosen to use
scripture as a means for men to see his mind.
HENRY: Um-hum.
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mi. xonssx-1= So in the 45:11 Psalm, when you
come up hither and you can look at the father
spiritually and you hear the 45th Psalm speak, it says
my heart -- See, the father gives me the book, right,
and opens the first seal about the white horse?
HENRY: Um-hum. A
MR. KORESH: So then I show you Psalms 45.
It says my heart is indicting a good manner. I speak
of things which I have made touching my king. You know
who the father's king is, don't you? It's Christ.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: It says my tongue is the pen of
a ready writer.
HENRY: Uh-huh .
MR. KORESH: Now, how does God want to speak?
He wrote a book, didn't he? .
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: That's why his tongue is the pen
of a ready writer.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: He says to the son, he says thou
are fairer than the children of men. So that's his
opinion isn't it?
HENRY: Yes.
MR. KORESH: He says grace is poured into thy
lips. Now, how are men required to be saved in the
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latter days? Who's going to come? And what's he going
to teach? The seven seals, right?
HENRY: Um-hum.
M. KORESH: And who gave him the seven seals
to teach? The father, right?
HENRY : Um- hum .
. MR. KORESH: And all that receive his
testimony will learn the prophets and all the books
pertaining to these seals and they'll receive grace --
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: -- unmerited favor for
salvation.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH= So, therefore, have God blessed
thee forever. But then it says gird thy sword upon thy
thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
And in that majesty ride prosperously because of truth.
Now, what did he ride? What does the king ride? In
the first seal what does he ride?
HENRY: The white horse?
MR. KORESH: He rides the white horse.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: So they're on the roof for sure
now, right?
HENRY: No, they are not on the roof. Nobody
is even close. Listen, the agreements that we made,
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David, the agreements that Jim made with you all stand.
We are not --
MR. KORESH= Well, why, why are people
jumping all around on the roof? y
HENRY: There is nobody on your roof. There
is nobody -- There is --
M. KORESH= Let's get back to the psalm
then, so you can get a better picture of the way I
think, okay? So in Psalms 45, it says with thy glory
and majesty, ride prosperously because of truth. Now,
what is the truth-that the father gave him that says
he's going to ride prosperously? The seven seals,
right?
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: Okay. Meekness and
righteousness, it says thy right hand shall teach thee
terrible things. Why? Because the father gave me this
book.
HENRY: Um-hum.
M. KORESH: The father gave me the book and
it talks terrible things, what's going to happen to the
heathen that resist, resist against the will of God,
the word of God.
HENRY: Um-hum. '
M. KORESH: Okay. Finally, it says thy
arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies. I
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mean, you know, what arrows? Does he have a bow in the
first seal? He does, doesn't he?
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: Okay. whereby the people fall
under thee. This says thy throne O God is forever and
forever. The indiscernible! is a right scepter. Thy
love is righteousness and hate is wickedness.
Therefore, God, thy God have anointed you with the oil
gladness above thy fellows. So is Christ the son of
God?
HENRY: Yes.
MR. KORESH: And he's God, isn't he?
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: Okay. Now, it goes on to talk
about his marriage. It says upon my right hand is
stand the queen in gold of Ophir.
[9aP]
MR. KORESH: They're coming in on us.
HENRY: No, nobody is there. I promise you
nobody is there. We -- Every agreement that we made
before stands.
M. KORESH: Go up and see.
HENRY: Go ahead and send somebody, because
there's going to be nobody there. There's going to he
nobody there. I can promise you that. Like, you know,
just like you, we're also servants of the Lord. We're
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nct your enemies. We're not.
MR. KORESH: Well, if you -
End of Tape 10A.!
92 9292 '92
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
/
TAPE #102
3/1/93
¥
2
HENRY: And that's fine and I have no
1'
problems with that.
M. KORESH: Okay. y
HENRY: But I have a problem with you staying
there all day.
NR. KORESH: Well --
HENRY: And when I say I have a problem, I
would like --
MR. KORESH; This is why, this is why you
agreed to play this tape, right? Because you really
have no intention of playing it, right?
HENRY: No, no, no, no, no. That has nothing
to do with anything. If I told you that I was going to
do something, that's exactly what I'm going to do. You
know, I, I have no problems doing, you know, this and
whatever, you know --
MR. KORESH: I told these people to trust you
all.
' HENRY: And, you know, and likewise I've been
trusting you, okay?
MR. KORESH: Okay. Now, here's the deal,
though. You know, you do understand the importance to
us for this -- what I have to say to be gotten out.
Now, we're not terrorists. I mean, you're not -- And
we don't have no hostages here.
' HENRY: I understand.
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MR. KORESH: I mean, the children, that's
kind of like a hostage cause, like I
young to make their decisions.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. xonssm And I don't, Isay, they're too
don't agree with
that, even if they're my own, see. So the thing of it
is is that, like I say, I've been faithfully sending
them out. Not just because I'm trying to, to, to buy
time, but because I just don't want them involved in
this.
HENRY: Umhum.
MR. KORESH: You know? And trying to, to
walk the middle of the road to make it as fair for us,
you know, and as fair for you. But, actually, on my
side, I'm going to make it fair for me first. Just
like your, your side, you're going to
you first. So, you see, we both know
coming from on that area. You've got
you say, you know, we're sitting here
radio and everyone on the radio keeps
saying you all are going to storm us,
sent - You know, this is what they're saying now. I'm
not saying that that's true.
HENRY: Okay.make it fair for
where we're
me, okay? Like
listening to the
continually
you all sent, you
MR. KORESH: See? So you're being -- If
you're honest and you're being dirty dealt with, just
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like I have been dirty dealt with, you see? And it's a
different situation, but still it's the same thing.
HENRY: Well -- A
MR. KORESH: They're saying that you're going
to do something and it's going on national radio, state
radio at least, and people are out there listening and
you're not correcting it, you know. And they're saying
well, the fog is a good cover and this is going to
happen and, and we've seen these many vehicles and
they're moving up and, and, you know -- Well, you're
not, you're not getting on those boys saying now, wait
a minute, you know, we're not doing that. No, they're,
they're incessantly tormenting us, you know, and
they're telling us what you guys are doing.
HENRY: Exactly. But one of the things that
we've been doing is we've been ignoring the press
because we don't want the press to know what we are or
are not doing, you know, and that's why we haven't said
anything one way or the other.
MR. KORESH: All right.
HENRY: That's why the press doesn't have the
correct story, because we're just --
MR. KORESH: But the press --
HENRY: -- not talking to them.
M. KORESH: The press, you know, you all
pulled them back because, you know, they feel that when
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you all come in here and, and bang us all up and
everything that you don't want them to get it on
footage.
_ HENRY: But the press was saying last night
that we were storming the place at eight o'clock, and I
told you we weren't, and we haven't. And even when you
thought that somebody was on the roof, I told you that
we were not.
MR. KORESH; Yeah, that's true.
HENRY: hnd we didn't.
MR. KORESH: And that's in your favor, I
agree.
HENRY: Okay. So, you know, I would like for
you, you know, in order for me to, to, to be able to,
to sell all of this to my bosses, I need a little bit
of help from you. Now, what I can do, or what I'd like
to do is let me talk to them in terms of selling this
to KRLD and maybe we can have KRLD then go national
during prime time. And if we do that, will you agree
to come out at that time?
M. KORESH: When you've done the national.
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KOREsH= You can do KRLD and I'll still
send the children.
HENRY : Okay .
MR. KORESH: You know.
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HENRY: All of them?
MR. KORESH: Not all of them yet. Like I
say, when you go national, then they'll all come, all
of us come.
HENRY: Okay. Let's do this.
MR. KORESH: That, that's the agreement we
originally made.
HENRY: Okay. And that's fine, but, but
let's consider doing one, one thing. Supposing we do
this. When the - you send out the two kids to -~ with
the tape, give me two kids and two women. How about
that?
MR. KORESH: See, there we're --
HENRY: Well, I'm just saying I've got to
sell this because --
MR. KORESH: Look, look, there's one thing
that binds us all here together.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH= It's the truth I'm sending in
that tape. Now, these women, if they were to come out
to you right now, you know, knowing how so far we'veV
been dealt with - We've been dealt with straight
across the table, but there is some shadow there. You
know, they're not going to trust you until you have
ultimately shown beyond a shadow of a doubt, you know,
that you have kept your full end of the bargain.
7
So, you know, it's, it's like, it's like --
What you're asking me to do is you're asking me to use
my influence --
HENRY: Um-hum.
i MR. KORESH: --
decision to deal with the
believed in, because you
we're believing in. Theto barter someone else's
/
effects of
all fail towhat we have
understand what
Constitution -- Watch the
baby, please -- in, in written form,
many interpretations, constitutional
are to have religious --
course, it has quotas to
religion is and is not ac
HENRY: Um-hum.freedom for
where we've
ceptable.though there's
law says that we
religion. But, of
got to define what
MR. KORESH: Okay? Now, we do condone a
Bible religion, but then there comes in the aspect of
interpretation. So someone's interpretation could be
wrong and therefore making their religion wrong. And
if that religion hurts others, if it confines others or
binds others, then definitely we have to take a stand
and present it to the public so that the public, which
is our judicial system, realistically, can decide that
well, no, this is incorrect, and we have to, in means,
deal with the person that's going contrary to, to what
the person is saying the scripture says.
You know, people can screw things up. And
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that religion is a false religion, for sure.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: Okay. Now, I agree with you on
all of these things, you know, and I love America, you
know. And you'll find in my past record that, you
know, I'm not a bad person. In 1988, if you research
that so-called gun battle, you'll find out I went
plenty of times to the Sheriff's Department and asked
them to come out here and deal with George Roden on
that corpse abuse thing. You know, if you research
that, you'll find that out.
And when I was told point-blank that I had to
get these pictures, and, as we were walking out Sheriff
Dixon says now, boys, be careful, you know, there are
some dangerous customers out there.
HENRY: Umhum. .
MR. KORESH: Now, that's when I had to stop
and think now, what does he know that I don't know? I
didn't know Donny Joe Harvey or Orville Wells yet. I
didn't know that George was involved in coke and also
in methamphetamine. I didn't know those things then.
HENRY: Um-hum.
M. KORESH: So, you know, why the system did
not -- Well, like I say, this is a lot of water under a
bridge.
HENRY: Right.
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MR. KORESH: But it did make me look bad.
And the thing of it was was that the weapons that we
purchased, which you can look on all the yellow sheets,
at that time everything we had was with a yellow sheet.
a~HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: Everything we bought was with a
yellow sheet. Everything. You'll find that those
things were bought locally and also in from Palestine.
There were basic Rugers, you know, and stuff, which at
that time was considered, you know, a rodent gun, you
know.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: Of course, we know that the 5.56
is also a military, too. "
HENRY: Right.
MR. KORESH: But, anyway, the thing of it is
is that it gets blown out of proportion.
HENRY: Right. And I think one of the things
that we're talking about and what we're trying to
resolve here is, is that everybody's either fears or
concerns about what might or might not happen. I, I
think that what your concern is, your main concern is
that we might attack you, okay? And --
MR. KORESH: Well, if you attack us, it just
comes down to this.
HENRY: Okay, but we're not -- We have no
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MR. KORESH: I know, but it just comes down
to this, though. You end up killing us.
HENRY: Okay. And our concern is that,
that -- i
MR. KoP.sss= And
way you had it. You'll --
around us.
HENRY: Well, we
MR. KORESH: You
and this, that.
HENRY: No. Our
going to come out and that
MR. KORESH: Oh,
suicide, I would have done
explain something.
HENRY: Well ~-Ithen you'll have a story the
There's no, there's no media
don't --
ll say that we attacked you
concern is that you're not
you might commit suicide.
look, if I wanted to commit
it already. Now, let me
MR. KORESH= We were accused three times this
last year of going to commit suicide. Three times.
The authorities were roused up by letters from MARTBRO
phonetic sp.! and all that. Here we, here we've been
digging lakes in the front, fixing this place up from a
rat hill, hoping that one day we might have this place
finished, to be able to present it true to all those
who want to come. But at the same time, knowing that
as long as there were people who would not look at the
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truth, we could not sit with idle expectation and think
that we're always going to be able to, to have this
freedom that we've enjoyed.
We've never gone outside our boundaries.
We've done things that are legal. You know, always
suspicion on every hand, you know, but the thing of it
is is that if there is anything in question, we need to
take it to the Bible. Christians are supposed to take
it to the law and the testimony of God's scripture.
Now, otherwise, we are commanded by scripture to abide
by the laws of the land in every degree, as long as
those laws don't 100 percent conflict with the law of
God. _
In Nebuchadnezzar's day, when Nebuchadnezzar
had that dream, you know, Daniel and them were subject
to the Babylonian kingdom, weren't they? They kept the
laws of Chaldea, didn't they? But when it came for
Nebuchadnezzar to make that image and he commanded all
people to bow to it -- i
HENRY: Um- um. h
MR. KORESH: -- you know, indiscernible! we
will not be careful in answering this to you, king, wed
will not bow down to your law which goes against our
God's law. Well, the acid test came. They threw those
boys in the fire, didn't they?
HENRY: Um-hum.
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MR. KORESH: But who protected them? God
did. Now, we're in the fire now.
And, like I say, we believe that
nation and that it, like Assyria
hear theemessage of Jonah and it
say hey, you know, this, this --Not a real fire.
America is a great
or Nineva of old, can
can have a chance to
what this guy's
teaching out of the book is straight out of the Bible,
it's in harmony, it's perfect. Maybe there's been a
misunderstanding here.
HENRY: Well, what -- If we can go back and
clarify our agreement so that you feel comfortable --
MR . KORESH: Right .
HENRY: -- and everybody feels comfortable.
And what it comes down to is real trust, you know, and
we need to -- you need to have trust in us and we need
to have trust in you. Can you give me either all of
the children or two children andtwo women? And, you
know, and we'll give what I said. I will give you the
KRLD and then going to national media right thereafter.
M. KORESH: Let me, let me talk about this
with, with some -- ~
HENRY: You know, if we don't do what we say
that we're going to do, the women will be able to give
testimony against us. Are we going to look good ~-
MR. KORESH: No, no. Come on.
HENRY: -- in the eyes of everybody?
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M. KORESH: Come on. '
HENRY: We will look awful.
MR. KORESH: Look --
HENRY: We will look awful.
A MR. KORESH: Oh, Henry --
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: -- how many times has the
federal government --
HENRY: I have not - I have been straight
with you, with -- in everything that we've talked
about. I've been straight with you all the way. I
told you we would keep everybody away from, from the
place, and we have. You know, we offered you gasoline
when you didn't have gasoline.
MR. KORESI-I: I'm just thinking about all the
past cases of where the -- Like I say, we both know
what I'm talking about.
HENRY: Whatever past cases I've had --
MR. KORESH: But this is our case, this is
our case. Me and you are talking and --
HENRY: Exactly. Exactly. This is you and
me -- ~
M. KORESH: Okay.
HENRY: -- and, and --
M. KORESH: So you're worried about me
committing suicide. All right.
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HENRY: We don't want anybody committing
suicide. i
M. KORESH: Okay.
HENRY: And we want to get you out of there
as soon as possible because, you know, your blood
pressure isn't all that good. _You're not, you know,
with all those blankets that you have on you, you
should be sweating a little bit, and you're not. y
MR. KORESH: Well, how cold is it in this
room?
HENRY: I understand that.
MR. KORESH: Low forties.
HENRY: I understand that, but your injury --
you've had that injury for some time now. You need
attention.
MR. KORESH: Yeah.
HENRY: You know, there for a while you said
your mind was going blank, you know. Periodically, I
feel that you~have a shortness of breath. Those are
not good signs. We need to get attention, medical
attention for you. So I don't want this thing to drag
out and, and have your death on my hands. I don't want
that. Give me a chance to help you. "
MR. KORESH: Well --
HENRY: Give me a chance to help everybody.
MR. KORESH: -- that's what we were working
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out. Now you're twisting up again.
HENRY: No, I'm not.
M. KORESH: You said that we would play this
thing on national.
'"HENRY: We will. And that's exact --
M. KORESH: And I told you --
HENRY: That's exactly what we're going to
do.
M. KORESH; And then we would, you know, all
come out. And I told you, I said well, look, I'll go
ahead and I'll send a tape and I'll send you out two
more children, and you said that's fine. And then you
said we'll play it on KRLD and you didn't say anything
about we'll play it on, play it on KRLD and then we'll
send everybody out. You didn't say that. And so, you
know, now you're saying something different. Now,
that's honest, Henry, that's honestly what's happening.
And then you're doing the same thing that, that Jim's
doing.
You're saying your bosses, your bosses. I
mean, I mean, this is not Burger King management here,
you know. You're the negotiator, you're the one's that
got a lot of, a lot of power, don't you?
HENRY: Well, I don't have as much, you know,
I don't have all the power. I still have bosses.
Okay, now, you're in charge there and it's quite easy
for you to make the
Now, I've been real
real hard for a lot
and I will continue
bit of help from you92
16
decision if you choose to do so.
straight with you and I've pushed
of the things that you've wanted,
to do that. But I need a little
MR. KORESH: Okay, let me, like I said --
Finishing this tape
so --is being dragged out now, too,
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: - let me -- I'll have to, I'll
have to get with these, you know, especially some of
these girls and talk to them.
HENRY: Okay. Can I get two kids now?
MR. KORESH: Well, as soon as I get my tape
finished.
HENRY: How about now, while you're still
working on it?
MR. KORESH: Well, that's not what we agreed
OD.
HENRY: I'm not, you know, I'm just asking
you if you will consider doing that.
MR. KORESH: See, you're making it
complicated cause, like I say, are we going to send
some mothers out with these children? Now, that's
going to take some work on my part.
HENRY: Okay.
,-0 I
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MR. KORESH: You know? And, like I say,
these people know the seals and they know that unless
this country observes and sees, then they know point-
blank what's going to happen according to the
prophecies. That's why our main burden is holding out
here until we have an opportunity to state our cause.
You know, what did Nicodemus say? He says did our law
judge any many before the hearing? We're talking about
the Jewish law, which is law of'God. Now, we know the
law of man does, but, you know, that's where me and
you, we kind of, kind of have a little friction,
because I want to serve your laws where they coincide
with God's laws. '
And America does. Above all of the nations.
It does. You know, it's the closest to God's laws,
basic principles of common sense, you know. But,
again, there are some laws in the scriptures of truth
which are the laws of prophecy, you know, and these
laws are great laws because they're additional to the
Ten Commandment law, such as the law of forgive them
father, they don't know what they do.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: See, now, that's a law. You
have to forgive people based on their ignorance.
V HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: Now, the next law, which let's
say the
forgive
we have
they're92
18
Ten Commandments is Christ, right?
HENRY: Umhum.
MR..KORESH: So the 11th commandment is
them, okay? So every man that, that does err,
to forgive him cause they don't know what
doing.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: S0 then the 12th law will be
into they hand I commit my spirit, which means, like
Isaiah 51 says, when God says hearken to me, you who
seek after righteousness, you who seek the Lord, look
to the rock indiscernible! You know, God is that rock
on that throne, isn't he?
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: And it says behold my people,
give ear to me, oh, my nation, for a law shall proceed
from me and I will make my judgment to rest for a light
to the people. And in that judgment, that law is
Christ coming, the seventh seal.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: Now, that's why without you
knowing where these seven seals are in the Bible, you
know, you wouldn't know how to judge me.
respectHENRY: Exactly.
MR. KORESH: Except by your law. And I
that. See, I'm willing to come out and be
1
19
observed and judged by your --
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: law.
HENRY: Okay.
A M. KORESH: But if you allow me to first
speak my law.
. HENRY: And I have no problems with allowing
you. Talk, talk to the people there, talk to the
women. I'll call you back in about 15 minutes and, and
you can let me know --
MR. KORESH: Okay.
HENRY: -- what the decision is. In the
meantime, you're also going to be working on the
preamble and the tape.
MR. KORESH: Okay. What's the preamble?
HENRY: That's, that's where you're going to
explain our agreement to the --
M. KORESH: Oh, okay, right. Okay.
HENRY: Okay?
MR. KORESH: Right. All right.
HENRY: Okay. So I'll call you back in a
little bit.
MR. xonssr-1= Okay.
HENRY: Okay?
MR. KORESH: Okay. I'm going to have to do
some adjustment here now, so --
92
little bit
David?20
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: Okay, I'll talk to you in a
HENRY
RITA:
HENRY:
RITA:
HENRY
RITA:
HENRY
RITA:
HENRY
RITA:Okay. I'll talk to you. Bye-bye.
iii!-t I
Hello?
Hi.
Hi.
This is Henry.
Okay, Henry, you want to speak to
Yes. Who is this?
It's Rita again.
Thank you, Rita.
Okay.
MR. KORESH= Wait a minute. Had this ear
plug again.
again.
the ear plHENRY: What?
M. KORESH: I said I had the ear plug in
0
HENRY: Oh, okay. ,
MR. KORESH: I keep putting the phone with
ug.
HENRY: Oh, okay.
M. KORESH: Okay, here's the deal.
HENRY: Okay.
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21
MR. KORESH: I'm going to make this tape.
Now, you know, some of these younger girls, you know,
they don't want to go, you know, and I, I explained to
them, I said look, I says, you know, our main thing,
Sarah knows anyway, and it's the truth. You know, the
truth. You know?
HENRY: Umhum.
MR. KORESH: And I explained to them again,
cause, you know, they -- the girls have the different
rooms, and talked to them, but I explained to them, I
said, you know, our whole purpose is our message. We
have a message and the world's ignorant of what we
believe in the Bible, so they're ignorant about what
we're doing.
HENRY: Umhum.
MR. KORESH: So, I says, you know, I've
talked to the guy and he's concerned that we're going
to, you know, same old story, we're going to all zap
ourselves, you know. Why wouldn't we have zapped
ourselves already, anyway, Henry? I mean, come on.
HENRY: You know --
M. KORESH: See, that's what they -- Anyway,
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to get off the track.
HENRY: Okay. -
MR. KORESH: Here's the deal. So some of
the, some of the older -- You know, we have quite a few
92
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older ladies here, too.
HENRY : Okay .
MR. KORESH: And I told them, I said, look, I
says, you know, you all, you know, you all -- Cause
they, they've been quite shocked, you know. I told
him, I said, look, you all, you all are not really
involved in anything, you know, you all believe the
message and believe the truth. I says, but, remember,
that's the main thing, is the truth is what we all
stand for.
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: And I says you can probably also
help present to the people the truth.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: And so, you know, I've, I've
been talking to them. I said, look, here's the deal,
you know, you can either witness for God here, and
probably don't want to listen to us, or if you had a
chance to, to be on the outside, you could witness to
him there.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. XORESH: You know, cause people are
going to want to know why we've done these crazy
things. Now, next thing -- We didn't give them a bunch
of baloney. But I said, you know, you're the ones that
are supposed to be the victims. So, you know, if
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23
you're out there, you can do a greater witness for God,
you know, being out there to show them that you do want
to live, cause, you know, a dead Christian is a dead
Christian.
a HENRY: Right. ,
MR. KORESH: A live Christian is a witness.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: So, you know, and so I explained
to them, you know, if, if, if you all can, you know,
realize that -- See, the thing of it is we don't teach
that America has to be punished. ~We teach that God
grants unto men an opportunity to see his mistake in
the light of God's word, and then repent of it.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH: You know? And so that's the
whole thing. So this, this is where me and Jim had a
good relationship on the phone, because, you know, I
began to explain things to him. He, like you, is an
excellent listener and he began to realize that we're
not trying to be just radical idiots, you know, with
ragging our head off, you know, talking about
Armegeddon and stuff.
HENRY: Um-hum.
M. KORESH: You know, Armegeddon is -- the h
prophecies tell you is an end of time when God '
resurrects all the people that have ever lived and they
9292 92
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attack the city of God. Ezekial talks about it. So,
you know, anyway, it's not a few handsful of maniacs
trying to fight. That's not Armageddon at all.
HENRY: Okay.
* MR. KORESH: But, anyway, so the thinc of it
is is that, you know, there's, there's, you know,
there's three of them here that are, you know, deciding
on, you know, whether, you know, they want to go or
DOC .
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: And so I'm talking to them a bit
more now, but -- So it appears to be, like I say, I
told them what, what you promised to do for us, you
know, for us, which is for God, right?
HENRY: Umhum.
MR. KORESH: Because you're doing it for our
God.
HENRY: Um-hum.
MR. KORESH= You know, for our belief in God.
HENRY: Um-hum.
M. KORESH: And, and so, therefore, you
know, this is the whole reason for the truth, anyway,
is to, is to be able to have what we believe known.
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: These people can decide better,
and then you can ask us questions if we're alive.
¢92
25
HENRY: Right .
MR. KORESH: And if we're gone, then, you
know, no, no good. I agree with you guys, you know.
Two children, that's the, that's the main thing. And
two, two-of the women here.
HENRY: Okay. That sounds real good. I
really appreciate it.
MR. KORESH: Okay? Now, that's -- Now,
remember, they're doing, they're doing this --
H HENRY: I understand.
MR. KORESH: -- simply because, you know --
Now, I'm telling them point-blank you all may not, you
know, be 100 percent, but still their faith is in God.
So, you know, if you get them on the outside and all
that and don't do your end of the bargain --
HENRY: No, we will. But, you know, that,
that'll start, that'll start the ball rolling and we'll
both reach our goals. Okay?
MR. KORESH: Okay. Well, I'll --
HENRY: Now --
MR. KORESH: I'll tell them that.
HENRY: Okay. Now, what I want to do is I _
want to, to get your tape as soon as I can. One of the
things that we're considering, because a lot in terms
of radio, prime time is when the commute is on, okay?
MR. KORESH: The what now?
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HENRY: when the commuters are driving to
work is when prime time is on radioland, okay? So
you're working on the tape and should have it for me
soon. Is that correct?
I M. KORESH: Well, if I, if I get a chance to
keep making it.
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: But prime time, I thought, was
the time the people are driving home, when they get
home in the evening.
HENRY: Well --
MR. KORESH: That's prime time.
HENRY: Radio I think is, is when everybody
is going to work, don't you think? I mean, that's when
everybody really listens to the radio.
MR. KORESH: Well, that's, that's not
really -- Ask, ask the producers and they'll tell you
opposite. But, anyway, like I said, you'll be playing
the Dallas one first, right?
HENRY: We're going to play Dallas and then.
we hope to go to national right away.
MR. KORESH: Okay. Now, 'cause I'm sure,
like you say, the subject matter'll be intense enough,
especially if radio stations could broadcast that it's
coming.
HENRY: Exactly.
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MR. KORESH: You know? And then that way,
you know, yeah, we could, like you said, and Arizona
will be from 11 to 1 or something, right?
HENRY: Um~hum. But --
l MR. KORESH: Okay, that's good.
HENRY: But we want to go on this right away.
We're not going to wait till 11 o'clock.
MR. KORESH: Oh, no, with the tape, the tape
needs to be given to you as early as possible.
HENRY: Yes. And as soon as we do that,
we're going to go national. We'll go on KRLD and, and
then after that, we'll go national.
M. KORESH: All right. And the national
will be 11 o'clock, right?
HENRY: It'll be as soon as, as - right
after KRLD plays it.
MR. KORESH: Well, how can that be then? I
mean, how are you going to be able to get the tape to,
to Arizona?
HENRY: Well, we're -- Everybody, or a lot p
of, a lot of the national radio stations are here, you
know, in this general area. So we're going to find
somebody, you know, that's a national radio --
. MR. KORESH: I see. $0 you're not going to
be playing it around 11 or 12 then?
HENRY: We're going to play it at 11 and 12
o'clock, too. But, you know, but, youv
28
know --
MR. KORESH: Well, that's, that's when we're
coming out then, around 11 and 12, national time. Do
we have an agreement on that?
A HENRY: Well, you know, if that's --
MR. KORESH: That's what you
HENRY: Well, I to/ld --told me before.
92
MR. KORESH: I asked you twice.
HENRY: Okay. And, and that's fine, I have
no problem. I, you know, I want to get you as soon as
I can to receive some medical attention.
M. KORESH: Yeah, I --
HENRY: And that's why I've been wanting to
get, you know, working from my end, pushing the bosses
here to find me a way to get this into
national radio station or whatever, so
you some medical attention.
MR. KORESH: Okay. So, like
more than, I could more than last, I'm
o'clock. It'll be our time, right?
HENRY: Okay. Okay, well --prime time or
that I can get
I say, I could
sure, till 12 y
MR. KORESH: Like I say, that's when we'll
come all out.
HENRY: Okay, well, that's fine.
MR. KORE$H= We're going to,
to -- Like I say, once I get this tapewe're going
finished and,
V92v
29
like I said, I'm trying to get it done now. I mean,
I ..-
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: You know, I need to get it --
hurry up and get it done.
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH= And, and I'm pretty sure we re
going to have two women for you and two children.
HENRY: Okay.
MR. KORESH: Okay?
HENRY: That's fine.
MR. KORESH: Are we, are we in tune?
HENRY: We're in tune.
M. KORESH: Okay, thanks, Henry.
HENRY: Thank you.
MR. KORESH: God bless you now. We'll talk
to you later, okay?
HENRY: Okay, I'll talk to you later.
MR. KORESH: Okay. Call me around -- Well,
what time is it right now?
HENRY: It's a little after six.
MR. KORESH: Already? Okay, give me a few
minutes here and then let me let this out, okay? -
HENRY: Okay. I'll call you back in a little
bit.
MR. KORESH: Okay, bye.
HENRY: Bye-bye .
End of Tape 10B.!
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.92U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPE #1lA
03/02/93
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DAVID: -- cut our lines off so I can't talk
to the radio programs. They're telling people that I'm
not communicating with them. And the reason being is
you all cut all our lines out
HENRY: Did, did -- was somebody working on
that?
DAVID: Well, Jim said so. But you know, we
know what's going on.
HENRY: We want this thing to be resolved in
such a fashion that everybody
We don't want anybody else to
one. Number two, if you have
would like for you to --
DAVID: Okay. Wait
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE
the tower? What?comes out of this fine.
get hurt. That's number
a message, we certainly
a second.
SPEAKER: Someone's in
DAVID: Someone's in the -- they're, they're
coming in.
HENRY: No, they are not coming in. There is
nobody anywhere close.
DAVID: Okay, look.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALEHey, wait a minute.
SPEAKER: David was --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: David --
DAVID: What's he doing on the roof?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: What's he doing
on the roof --
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HENRY: Who's on the roof?
DAVID: Wait a minute. It may be one of our
guys.
HENRY: It's got to be.
" UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: - looks like
he's in -- it's one of the tower sentinels.
DAVID: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Oh, Shit.
HENRY: Itfs, it's got to be one of yours.
Because our people are not moving in. Nobody is. The
only, the only reason we're going to move in is --
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:Wait a minute.
~ is to pick up the kids.
Unidentified voice in background not
discernible.! What? Unidentified voice in background
not discernible.!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Tell him --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: They were just
going to shoot --
DAVID:
Harry?
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
said Jim, listen.Okay. I'm sorry. What's your name,
Henry. Y
Henry, I'm sorry.
That's okay, David.
Okay. Now I asked, I asked Jim, I
If they'll let me present -- I mean,
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you know, this is our lives. You know, this depends on
how much you respect our lives. You know, if a man had
a -- let's say I was before a firing squad. You would
give me at least one last cigarette, wouldn't you?
» HENRY: Absolutely.
DAVID: Okay. If you would just allow me to
show one or two seals on radio, you know, get people --
I mean, I know it's asking a lot from this system
today. You know everything costs money, air time and
all that. I'm, I'm aware of that.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: And I've spent thousands of dollars,
you know. I've been traveling and trying to get the
message out.
HENRY: Um-hum.
DAVID: If you'd just let me present, you
know, the seals the way I see them.
HENRY: Uh-huh. _
DAVID: You know, then people would be able
to judge for themselves.
HENRY: I'll tell you what --
DAVID: And then based upon that, we can
arrange something to where we all come out.
HENRY: Okay. I will work on exactly that.
And you telling me, David, I'm trusting you. And I'm
putting myself totally in your hands that if I can
arrange to have
out. .
DAVID§
5
you do that that everybody will come
: What I'm saying is is this. I'm
saying that once I'm able to present this if you
individuals, if you don't cut me off and don't, you
know, don't do like what's been happening so far,
right, where everyone cuts me off. You know, hitting
me from the side with the questions that do not regard
the points I'm trying to make then we'll come out.
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
I'm holding you
DAVID
HENRY
you talk to the
on, on have you
what. We will: You're telling me --
: I'm telling you --
: You are telling me and you're -- and
to your word that --
= Is that --
: -- if I can make arrangements to have
radio and what I will do is I will work
talking to, to a radio -- I'll tell you
-- what I'll do is I'll try to work on
getting you something totally and completely different
from anything that you've had before in such a fashion
that, that we can present this, and it will go out to a
lot of radio stations. How's that? Would you be
willing to make
' DAVIDa tape?
: A tape? It's better if I give it
live. I mean, you know, I don't need to make a tape.
Because, you know, like I say I'd like to hear it.
6
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Make sure it's going, you know,
nationwide or whatever.
HENRY
outside?
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
I'm --
DAVID
that.
HENRY
DAVID
HENRYOkay. Could you come out and do that
I can't move.
We'll --
I can do it on the phone --
-- we'll carry you out.
N0.
I'm saying if, if you want to do it.
No, see, there again we can't do
I'm, I'm -- I was just asking --
On, on --
-- if you wanted to do it that way.
If you don't, okay.
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY:
DAVID
HENRYOn the telephone.
On a telephone?
On the telephone.
Okay.
And you know --
Let me work on that.
Okay, then get back with me. Okay?
Okay.
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DAVID: Because I indiscernible! I'm losing
by --
HENRY: Okay. Let me just ask you something.
We were working on getting some more kids out. Are you
ready togsend a couple more kids out?
DAVID: Well, let's, let's work on this now.
And because this avenue like I told Jim, I said Jim,
you know, because he's supposed to be still working
with me. I -- what did he do now?
HENRY: Well, he's, you know, he's been
forever. We're going to have to give him a little bit
of a break. You understand that?
DAVID: Yeah.
HENRY: Okay. And I'll - and I promise to
work with you in the same fashion that he has. Now let
me, let me just propose a couple of things to you. You
consider them, okay?
DAVID: Okay.
HENRY: One of the things that I want to
propose is if we make a tape recording, one of the
things that we ensure is that nobody is going to
interrupt you with crazy questions or comments or
anything like that.
DAVID: Okay. What we'll do then is we'll,
we'll -- maybe we can make a tape and a video. And
then maybe you can play that.
8
HENRY: Now do you have, do you have a video?
DAVID: Yes, we have high eight.
HENRY: Okay. Well, why don't you start
working on that, and I will start working on it from
this end:
DAVID: Okay. All right, then we'll do
something.
HENRY: Okay. Now I'm going to a little ~-
DAVID: That way at least you'll know where
I'm coming from.
HENRY: I'm going to need a little bit of
time so that I can, so that I can work on this. In the
meantime, can we get --
DAVID: Okay.
HENRY: -- some more children out or do
you -~ a
DAVID: Let's just hold off until we get this
spot figured out, all right?
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: I need, I need some -- see, I gave, I
gave Jim some money, right? H
HENRY: Yes. We have the money here.
DAVID: And he was going to pick me up a
phone, because our phone's really pretty bad. A lot of
people use them and we needed, we needed a better line.
Okay? Because you know we're - I mean well, I can't
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move, so we're long extension.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: And so if we can get a new line and
phone from, you know, like I said I was going to pay
for it. I
HENRY: Okay.
- DAVID: Then we'd have better reception.
HENRY: Okay. But do this for me, because
need to have these people, these bosses, you know,
they're always real pushy. You understand that?
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRY:I realize --
Okay.
- you got a lot of chiefs there.
Right. Send me two more kids while
we're working on this so that they can, you know --
DAVID: I'll do that.
HENRY: Okay. Okay.
DAVID: Okay?
HENRY: So what I'll do is whenever you -
DAVID: I'm glad you have a concern for the
children like I do because I have --
HENRY: Yes. Okay. What we will do is I
will start working on this, okay. And it's either
going to be a video and the audio, or at least we're
going to get radio. But I'll get you something. Or
I'll go to work on getting you something. Okay?
92 V
10
DAVID: Yeah. Let's, let's -- like I say
you'll, then you'll know, understand where I'm coming
from.
HENRY: Okay. But I want you to understand,
okay, I'm going to hold you this. You're telling me
that --
DAVID: I --
HENRY: -- that you're going to send
everybody out. I'm going to want everybody out.
DAVID: Okay.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Do what you can though.
HENRY: Okay. But send me a couple of kids.
I'm going to send a car to pick up the two kids.
DAVID: You got the van there now?
. HENRY: I'll send it, I'll send the van out.
Can we get the van over there?
DAVID: Yeah, well, give me a call or --
HENRY: Okay. The van is going there right
now.
DAVID: Okay.
HENRY: And in the meantime, I'll work on
this and I'll call you back in a little bit.
DAVID: Okay. Thanks. -
HENRY: Thank you, David.
DAVID: Bye.
92
11
HENRY: Bye~bye.
[gap]
iii
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Blew the
transmission.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Oh, good.
[sap]
STEVE
HENRY
STEVE
HENRY
srzvs
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY:
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:iii
Hello?
Hello, David?
This is Steve. Is this Henry?
Yes, Steve.
Henry -- do you want to talk here?
Okay. You ready?
The car is ready to pick up the kids
Okay.
Do you have the kids ready?
Yeah.
Okay.
Why don't -- screaming in pain! --
Are you okay? Are you okay?
Oh, God. I'm back.
Are you okay?
I'm bleeding again.
Geez.
I coughed. Wait a minute.
Groaning.
the back.
starts it
you be int
have to be
they --
guess he's
Joshy?
Joshua's 712
! Oh, boy. It got me by surprise. '
HENRY: Um
DAVID:
And wheGot the one hole in the front, one in
n I -- if I laugh or if I cough it
up again.
HENRY
DAVIDu0
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRY:
erested
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:
-- you
HENRY:
DAVID:
oh, man.
about -Sure.
Groaning.! Boy. Okay.
which kids are you going --
When -- okay --
-- are you going to send down? Would
in sending out --
Jamie. His name's Jamie and Joshua.
Who's, who -- how old are they?
Well, Jamie's an invalid. So you
got a special chair and all that.
Okay.
The social workers here in town
They know him. And Joshua, he's, I
- how o1d's Joshua now, 6? How o1d's
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Seven.
DAVID: He's turned 6.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Joshua's 7.
DAVID:
HENRY:Oh, he's 7 now? Okay. He's 7.
And Jamie?
DAVID: And Jamie he's --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Nine.
DAVID:
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID = Okay?
HENRY: Are they your kids?
DAVID: No.
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID:
paper with them,
to kin and, and all that stuff, okay?
HENRY: Okay.
DAVID: Groaning.!
HENRY: I presented, I presented the
And, and so far it's looking, you know, pretty
But we, we have a bit of a problem in terms of
time. Can you make a -- do you have something
could work
you have a recorder?$ I
13
Nine.
He's 9 but he's like 3, you know, 4.
Okay. We'll send a little, little
you know, that tells you their closest
idea.
good.
the
that you
with so that you can make an audiotape? Do
DAVID: Yeah, but I just can't get to it.
And it's, it's sophisticated.
HENRY: They can't bring it over to you?
DAVID: We can't, we can't do a little video?
HENRY: Well, see, what we're hoping to do
and, and because this is a serious situation, okay.
DAVID: Yeah, it's very serious.
HENRY :92 92
14
we're hoping to, to get this to a
serious Christian broadcasting network type national,
you know, broadcasting network that would, that would
give us maybe, you know, nationwide coverage on this
thing.
DAVID:
HENRY:Uh-huh.
And if we talk in terms of a video,
by the time we get it from here to, to --
DAVID:
to --
HENRY:
DAVID:
millimeter, 30, 33, 35 millimeter. Anyway,
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
if we could --
DAVID:
know where ~- do
studio and bringTo have it edited, transferred over
Yeah.
-- to 10 -- is it 10 - I forgot what
yeah.
Um~hum. Umhum.
I know what you're saying.
could, So if, if -- do you -- if we
Steve, how many, how many --do you
you think we could break down the
some, you know, take out of the rack
and bring some indiscernible! and stuff recorder in.
Because we need to do an unedited, high fidelity tape.
Okay.
STEVE:
DKVID:
STEVE:Get Greg.
Okay.
Greg would know how to do it,
AU.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
TAPE #112 - HENRY GARCIA
03/02/93
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Depositions
D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 10! 974-0947
I
RIT?92:
HENRY:
RITA:
HENRY:
» DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID
it's --
HENRY:
DAVID
it done. It's,
HENRY:
really -- I don
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVID:2
Hello?
Rita?
Just a minute, please.
Hello?
Hello?
How are you doing?
I'm, I'm trying to finish up. I mean
You making progress?
Oh, yeah. I'm trying, trying to get
it's raining outside, isn't it?
Well, I'm inside of a room. I can't
t have a window.
Well, that's, that's heavy rain.
Is that right?
Yeah. Okay, yeah. Let me finish
this up, and I'll get right with you. Call me in about
another 15 minutes, okay? We should -
HENRY:
DAVID
HENRY:
DAVID:
HENRY:
for the rest ofAbout --
-- be finished.
In about I5 minutes?
Right.
Okay. You - and we're still on-line
the stuff. That is I mean we still
have the two women and, and two, and two kids that
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Depositions
D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 10! 974-0947
C _92
will --
DAVID
it.: Right. Yeah, they said they'll do
HENRY: Okay. Okay.
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
match.DAVID: Okie doke?
Okay.
Okay. Let me get back on this then.
Okay. Very good.
Oh, boy. I feel like I did a boxing
HENRY: Okay. Now try to keep it short
because, you know, the, these people are not going to
want to play something that's real long, okay?
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
be?
HENRYOkie doke.
Okay.
I mean how long do they want it to
Well, you know, remember the, the
thing that you did for Jim before?
DAVID
HENRY
you --
DAVID
HENRY
short. But youHow long was that?
About half a page or so. You know,
Oh, that?
You, you don't have to make it that
know --
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Depositions
D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 10! 974-0947
92
DAVID
HENRY:
hour or something
DAVID
least wanted to
HENRY:
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRY:All right.
But, but don't make it like a half
like that.
Like I said, I have to make it-- at
make the point, okay?
Okay.
Okay, thanks.
Okay.
Okay, bye.
I'll talk to you later. Bye.
iii
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Is that all
right?
RECORDED MESSAGE: We're sorry. Your call
did not go through. Will you please hang up and try
your call again
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #1: Okay, now. I
mean I'll check on --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER #2: Are they, are
they in --
iii
DAVID: Hello?
HENRY: Hello, David?
DAVID: Yeah.
HENRY: How are you doing?
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Depositions
D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 10! 974-0947
!
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID:
HENRY:
DAVIDWe -- it's there. '
Okay. Is the tape done?
Yeah.
Okay.
Is the -- have they left yet? Have
they left yet? Unidentified voice in background not
discernible.! Wait one second. Have they left yet?
is?
know --UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Yes.
DAVID
HENRY:
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY
DAVID
HENRY:
DAVID
HENRY:
DAVIDOkay. You got them yet down there?
No.
Well, they, they should be there.
Who has the tape?
The older lady, Katherine.
Do you know about how long the tape
It's almost an hour.
An hour?
Almost.
You know, you realize that, you
Well, that's, that's -- I made it a
simple and direct as possible. I couldn't get away
with any less than that.
"Niall --HENRY: You realize that I may not be able, I
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Depositions
D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 10! 974-0947
92 92V
O Q
6
DAVID: I'll pay them.
HENRY: I, I --
DAVID: How much do they want?
HENRY: I, I --
- DAVID: I'll pay for the time.
HENRY: I understand what you're saying. I
don't have control over that. What I, what I'll do is
I'll do the best that I can. But I want you to
understand that if it comes out chopped up, it has
nothing to do with me. You know we're, we --
DAVID: Well, have, have - look. It's --
HENRY: I'll, I'll work on it. You know, and
I'll work very hard for you. You know that. Because I
want, I want to resolve this as just as much as you do.
DAVID: Yeah. This --
HENRY: You know that.
DAVID: This tape, like I say, if it's
played, you know, everything, everything's going to be
all right, you know. Because it's like I say it's, it
introduces so perfectly, you know, what the whole, how
the whole story got started. And I'll --
HENRY: Uh-huh.
DAVID: It, it tells the whole story.
HENRY: Okay. Now do --
DAVID: SO --
FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.
Court Reporting Depositions
D.C. Area 01! 261-1902
Balt. E Annap. 10! 974-0947