4 DIGITALLY RECORDED

1 2 3 4 DIGITALLY RECORDED 5 SWORN STATEMENT 6 OF 7 8 9 OIG CASE #: 10 2019-010614 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 19 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 20 MARCH 21, 2022 21 22 23 24 25 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00112740 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 4 BY: 5 BY: 6 7 8 WITNESS: 9 10 11 12 OTHER APPEARANCES: 13 NONE 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00112741 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : This is Special Agent 2 The recorder is now on. My name is 3 . I'm a Special Agent with the 4 U.S. Department of Justice Office of the 5 Inspector General New York Field Office and 6 these are my credentials. I don't know if you 7 can see it, Mr. 8 MR. : I could see. 9 MR. : Okay. This interview with 10 former Federal Bureau of Prisons employee 11 is being conducted as part of an 12 official U.S. Department of Justice Office of 13 the Inspector General investigation. Today's 14 date is March 21, 2022. The time is 11:08 a.m. 15 This interview is being conducted via Zoom 16 videoconferencing as, Mr. , you're 17 currently in Kentucky; is that accurate? 18 MR. : Correct. 19 MR. : Also present is DOJ/OIG 20 Assistant Special Agent in Charge 21 . This interview will be recorded by 22 me, Special Agent Could 23 everyone please identify themselves for the 24 record and spell your last name? To start 25 again, I am DOJ/OIG Special Agent EFTA00112742 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 . That's 2 MR. : I am Assistant Special 3 Agent in Charge with the 4 DOJ/OIG, and these are my 5 credentials. 6 MR. : Received. 7 MR. : Mr. can you please 8 identify yourself and spell your last name for 9 the record? 10 MR. : Yeah, my name is 11 . I am a Junior on some 12 documents, and I am a former employee of the 13 DOJ Federal Bureau of Prisons and particular to 14 this matter MCC New York. 15 MR. : Thank you. This is an 16 official DOJ/OIG investigation into the events 17 surrounding the death of Inmate Jeffrey Epstein 18 and you're being asked to voluntarily provide 19 answers to our questions. Will you agree to a 20 voluntary interview with the DOJ/OIG? 21 MR. : Yes. 22 MR. : Just for the record I did 23 email you two forms prior to this interview, 24 one was OIG Form 3-226-2, that is the Warnings 25 and Assurances. And the other form is OIG Form EFTA00112743 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 1 3-226/10A, which would be the Non-Disclosure 2 Agreement, and you signed - you read both of 3 them, signed them, but for the record I'm going 4 to read them to you and let's start off with 5 the Warnings and Assurances form. 6 The United - the form states: The United 7 States Department of Justice Office of 8 Inspector General Warnings and Assurances to 9 Employee Requested to Provide Information on a 10 Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to 11 provide information as part of an investigation 12 being conducted by the Office of the Inspector 13 General. 14 This investigation is being conducted 15 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978 16 as amended. This investigation pertains to job 17 performance failure and security failure. This 18 is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do 19 not have to answer questions. No disciplinary 20 action will be taken against you if you choose 21 not to answer questions. Any statement you 22 wish to - you furnish may be used as evidence 23 in any future criminal proceedings or agency 24 disciplinary proceeding or both. 25 The waiver states I understand the EFTA00112744 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 warnings and assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me. Mr. , you've read the form? MR. : Yes, I have. MR. : You understand the form and you agree to move forward with the interview? MR. : Yes, I do. MR. : And you've already signed the form and you sent it back to me and myself and MR. : (Indiztornible 4-00:03:43)Correct. MR. : ASAC will sign the document after the interview. The second form states: Department of Justice Office of Inspector General Non-Disclosure Agreement. I, , understand that the Department of Justice Office of Inspector General OIG will allow me to review certain documents in connection with my remote interview with the OIG on March 21, 2022, in order to facilitate that remote interview. A copy of the documents EFTA00112745 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 shown to me during my interview with the OIG 2 labeled OIG Documents will be made part of the 3 OIG record of that interview. 4 As a condition of being granted access to 5 review the OIG interview documents, I agree not 6 to make an audio or video recording of the 7 interview, excuse me, and I also agree that 8 until the OIG's final report or a summary of 9 the final report is released to the public I 10 will not copy, photograph, discuss, or disclose 11 any information from or about the OIG interview 12 documents I review to anyone other than the 13 OIG, my attorney if I have legal counsel who 14 also executes a non-disclosure agreement with 15 terms similar to this agreement, or other 16 specifically authorized by the OIG after any 17 such person executes a non-disclosure agreement 18 with terms similar to this agreement. 19 I further agree that even after the OIG's 20 final report or a summary of the final report 21 is released to the public I will not discuss or 22 disclose any information from or about the OIG 23 interview documents that are not contained in 24 or that are redacted from the publicly released 25 final report or summary of the final report. EFTA00112746 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 8 1 These provisions are consistent with and 2 do not supersede, conflict with, or otherwise 3 alter the employee obligations, rights, or 4 liabilities created by existing statute or 5 Executive order relating to (1) classified 6 information, (2) communications to Congress, 7 (3) the reporting to an Inspector General or 8 the Office of Special Counsel of a violation of 9 any law, rule, or regulation, or mismanagement, 10 a gross waste of funds, an abuse of authority, 11 or a substantial and specific danger to public 12 health or safety, or (4) any other 13 whistleblower protection. The definitions, 14 requirements, obligations, rights, sanctions, 15 and liabilities created by controlling 16 Executive order and statutory provisions are 17 incorporate into this agreement and are 18 controlling. 19 Mr. , do you understand that non- 20 disclosure order? 21 MR. : I do. 22 MR. : And you already read the 23 document, you signed it, and you've dated it. 24 Thank you for that. 25 MR. : You're welcome. EFTA00112747 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 9 1 MR. : Before I start the interview 2 I would like to place you under oath. Mr. 3 , can you please raise your right hand? 4 Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but 5 the truth during this interview? 6 MR. : I do. 7 MR. : Thank you. You can put your 8 hand down. Please let me know if you do not - 9 if you don't understand any questions and I'll 10 try to repeat it or rephrase it for you. 11 MR. : Sure. 12 MR. : So we'll start with your 13 background. What is your current home address? 14 MR. : My current home address is 15 and that's in 16 17 MR. : What is your date of birth? 18 MR. _: 19 MR. : And what's your Social 20 Security Number? 21 MR. -: 22 MR. : Thank you. What is your 23 current cellphone number? 24 MR. : Area code 25 MR. : Okay. What's your current EFTA00112748 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 what's your highest level of education? 2 MR. : Currently in college still 3 pursuing a bachelor's degree. 4 MR. : Which college? 5 MR. : Probably about a semester ago 6 I was in Champlain College all online out of 7 Burlington, Vermont, and I just recently 8 transferred Gateway Community Technical College 9 right here in my hometown of Kentucky. 10 MR. : And what are you pursuing 11 your bachelor's degree in? 12 MR. : Liberal arts(Indiscernible 13 *00:07:52), yeah. 14 MR. : Do you have an associate's 15 degree? 16 MR. : Credit wise, yes, but 17 formerly, no. 18 MR. : And what did you do prior ts 19 working for the BOP? 20 MR. : Prior to the BOP I was a 21 truck driver delivering fuel, oil, and stuff 22 like that. And prior to that I was down in 23 North Carolina where I was a correctional 24 officer for the State of North Carolina, which 25 is what got me my job into the BOP, my EFTA00112749 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 experience. 2 MR. : Okay. So from - since high 3 school - from high school you started working 4 for the North Carolina BOP or did you do other 5 jobs before that? 6 MR. : Oh, from high school I --. 7 MR. : Various jobs? 8 MR. : Man of many - I - man of many 9 trades. I can't even count how many jobs I've 10 had, but my main career out of everything was 11 truck driving. I was pretty much a truck 12 driver. I drove all kinds of trucks and stuff 13 like that. Then when I met my current wife 14 back in '08 we had moved to North Carolina to 15 be by her family and that's when I acquired a 16 job with the North Carolina Department of 17 Corrections, and then I was down there for two 18 years and did that. 19 We moved back to New York, which is where 20 I went back to driving truck again while I was 21 in the hiring process for the Bureau of 22 Prisons. And then I ended up getting hired 23 with the Bureau of Prisons in November of 2011, 24 and I started at MDC Brooklyn. 25 MR. : How long were you at MDC EFTA00112750 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 Brooklyn for? 2 MR. : Right around two years and 3 then I transferred down to FCI Estill in South 4 Carolina, and I was there for about two years 5 or so, got promoted to General Foreman and 6 transferred out to FCC Hazelton, which is 7 complex out in West Virginia, Bruceton Mills, 8 and I did a little over a year there and came 9 out to MCC New York in December of 2016 is when 10 I got to New York. 11 MR. : Was that your first --? 12 MR. : Basically, worked - what's 13 that? 14 MR. : Sorry. Was that your first 15 time at MCC? 16 MR. : Yes. Yep. 17 MR. : Okay. Go ahead. 18 MR. : I worked at all three - the 19 worst three prisons in the Bureau of Prisons. 20 MR. : So with the BOP, once you got 21 to MCC in 2016 is that where you spent the rest 22 of your career with BOP at MCC? 23 MR. : It was. I was there - I got 24 there in December of 2016, I think it was right 25 before Christmas and my last day on the job was EFTA00112751 LIMITED 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 OFFICIAL USE Valentine's Day of 2019. MR. : Okay. MR. : And I was there for that amount of time as a General Foreman. MR. : You --. MR. : Now (Indi3ccrnible *00:10:58) was that February 14, 2019? MR. : That's correct. MR. : Okay. Thank you. MR. : Yeah. MR. : Do you recall your EOD date with the BOP, exact date by any chance? MR. : Yeah, November 6, 2011. MR. : Okay. And when did you graduate from BOP training? MR. : I would have to look that up. MR. : It's okay. If you don't remember it, don't worry about that. We just it's generic question we ask. MR. : I was there for Super Bowl, so if I got hired in November and I was in Glynco for Super Bowl, I would say it had to have been February of `20. No, I'm sorry, '12, 2012, yeah. MR. : So when you started with the EFTA00112752 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 1 MCC you said you were a general foreman and 2 that was your position up until when you 3 separated from the MCC in February 14, 2019? 4 MR. : Correct. 5 MR. : Okay. And what is your - 6 after you left MCC, what is your current title 7 and what agency do you work for? 8 MR. : I currently work for the 9 General Services Administration Public Building 10 Services, and I am a Building Manager. 11 MR. : Okay. While you were at the 12 MCC as a general foreman, was that your title 13 in 2018 and 2019? 14 MR. : General foreman was the 15 internal kind of phrase. I think the position 16 title officially OPM was Maintenance Mechanic 17 Supervisor. 18 MR. : Hold on, let me write that. 19 MR. : And I was WS-4749, Grade 14, 20 Step Five. 21 MR. : So official title is 22 Maintenance Mechanic Supervisor? 23 MR. : Correct. 24 MR. : And who did you report to? 25 MR. : The facility manager. EFTA00112753 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 1 MR. : Who was the facility manager 2 at that point? 3 MR. _: 4 MR. : And when did Mr. 5 understanding is Mr. retired from MCC. 6 When did he - according to your recollection, 7 when did he retire from the MCC? 8 MR. : I would probably have to say 9 - I don't know the exact dates because his exit 10 was kind of unique. He didn't actually 11 initially retire; he went out on some kind of 12 other type of leave and eventually it's to my 13 understanding he ended up retiring. But when 14 he had went out all communication stopped with 15 everybody with him. Nobody - he never kept in 16 touch with anybody. He never reached out. Bu- 17 18 MR. : When was that? 19 MR. : I really don't know what 20 hey, I don't know his exact date, but I would 21 probably want to say that I was there for 22 almost maybe just under or right around or 23 another year after he had left. I don't think 24 it was that much because there was several 25 other people locally that had filled in EFTA00112754 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 including me for his position. 2 MR. : So you recall that other 3 people filled in his position while he was gone 4 while you were still there? 5 MR. : Correct. 6 MR. : Okay. So do you believe he 7 left in 2019 or 2018? 8 MR. : I really honestly couldn't 9 tell you. I do remember --. 10 MR. : I think what is 11 trying to ask is not his official retirement 12 date but around when did he leave the MCC and 13 communication with him stopped. I think you 14 said -- 15 MR. : Yes. 16 MR. : -- it was approximately a 17 year before you left? 18 MR. : Yeah. The only thing I can 19 tell you - I don't really know the dates. The 20 only thing I know from what I recall is Mr. 21 had just went to Denver, Colorado, for 22 some kind of facilities manager conference 23 training and he had never returned back to the 24 institution once he went to that training or 25 conference or whatever it was. It had EFTA00112755 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 something to do with facility managers all 2 going out there. And all I know is that when 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 he went out there, he went there for a week or so, and he never returned to the institution after that. MR. : Okay. MR. : It was (Indizcorniblo *00:15:21) MR. : Do you know why he left, what happened? MR. : I have no idea. I have no idea. I couldn't tell you. I mean, there was a lot of rumors, but I just know that when he went to that training, it was like he went home after that. He never came back to the institution or that conference, whatever. MR. : Now, do you know if it was personal reasons, medical, or administrative? MR. : I have no idea why he didn't come back although he did make medical issues known to us on the job, that he had some medical issues. MR. : Okay. And you said a few people filled in the position. So his title EFTA00112756 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you said was Facility Manager, right? And what, was he your direct supervisor? MR. : He was, yep. MR. : Okay. And who does the facility manager report to? MR. : The Associate Warden of Operations. MR. : And who was Associate Warden of Operations in end of 2018 if you recall? MR. : So we had three in the time that I was there, and I believe worked under all three of them. So there was and then the last one that was there prior to me leaving was or They called him but I believe his real name was MR. • • , okay. MR. : All three of them had performed - they were the AWO they call it, AW of Operations, which oversaw the Facilities Department, and that's who the facility manager directly reported to. MR. : Okay. And when Mr. left the MCC and that's not when he retired, let me clarify this, (Indioccrniblc *00:17:19) EFTA00112757 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 this is when he stepped away for leave purposes, do you recall who took over for hire. initially? MR. : Yeah. So the warden at the time which I can't remember which one it was because there was so much staff that came and went throughout this whole thing, that one time it was the executive assistant who was told to oversee the department, and then at another time the AW oversaw the department. MR. assistant" -- MR. MR. MR. *00:17:59) . MR. bit? MR. MR. next person? MR. • • When you say "executive (Indiscernible *00:17:56) . -- who was that? (rhonctic Sp. : So he oversaw it for a little : He did, yes. : Okay. And then who was the . He was told to oversee it. And then there was a little bit of a stint where, you know, I could just informally absorbed a lot of EFTA00112758 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 his job duties just to get the department functioning, but I was never actually promoted or paid or anything like that that actually - I was never formally designated as acting or anything like that, I just had to do some of the facility manager functions in order to have the department operational. So I would get my go-ahead for - to do those functions. They would - they oversaw it or approved by either III or at the time. MR. : So they gave you the go-ahead and you went ahead and completed the functions. Do you recall when exactly this time period was when you acted? MR. : I wasn't really designate - I wasn't really acting, I was just - if I had to do - if I had to get something done that a facility manager would normally have to do, I would just go to the - whatever time period it was, if III was over the department or if was over the department, I would have to go to them and say, "Hey, listen, can I go ahead and do this? Can you give me the approval, sign off on it?" and EFTA00112759 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 1 then I would actually do the act. 2 MR. : Okay. Bear with me a second. 3 Let's see. Maybe this might help -- I have a 4 SigNet contract here, right? And it's multiple 5 questions will be on the SigNet contract -- 6 MR. : Yeah. 7 MR. : -- and bear with me. I'm 8 going to see if I can share my screen here. 9 This document that I'm showing you, can you see 10 it? 11 MR. : No. 12 MR. : Why is this - how about now? 13 MR. : I got something coming up. 14 Yep, I could see it. 15 MR. : Okay. So this document that 16 I'm showing you is - it says, "MCC New York." 17 It says, "Solicitation Contract Order for 18 Commercial Items Offered to Complete Blocks 12, 19 17, 23, 24, and 30." 20 MR. : Yep. 21 MR. : And it says, "Requisition 22 Number 1064-18." 23 MR. : Yep. 24 MR. : This is just for the record. 25 I'm just reading it, just the top part, so we EFTA00112760 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 1 know which document this is. The Contract 2 Number states GS-07F as in Frank -0322T, and the 3 Award Effective Date is 09/21/2018. Do you 4 recall -- 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : -- this document at all? 7 MR. : I don't see that document, 8 no. 9 MR. : See over here. 10 MR. : But it's not under the 11 facility manager one. I don't recall ever 12 putting my eyes on the document. 13 MR. : This is part - Section 15. 14 You see over here? 15 MR. : Correct. 16 MR. : And it's - it's says 17 "Delivered to Federal Bureau of Prisons MCC New 18 York" and lists you as a point of contact. 19 MR. : Correct. 20 MR. : Now, if we scroll down a bit. 21 MR. : Uh-huh. 22 MR. : We're going to scroll down to 23 Page 6 on this document. 24 MR. : Correct. 25 MR. : It lists you as the EFTA00112761 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 1 facilities manager. Does this jog your memory 2 at all? 3 MR. : I do. I was always - when 4 had left, I was pretty much assumed the 5 facilities manager. Like I said, I was never 6 formally promoted or even temporarily entered 7 that position, nor was I ever designated as 8 acting. So the fact that that says facility 9 manager, I don't know why or who put that there 10 because I was always a general foreman. I was 11 never, ever in the role of a facility or with 12 -el•ftd4seen+Is+e—te•Oa- full title, whether 13 temporary or permanent, was never a facility 14 manager. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. • 17 MR. 18 MR. : I was never even formally 19 designated as acting, they just pretty much 20 said, "There's no facility manager, is 21 next in the chain of command," so they just 22 referred to me as it. That's what I'm assuming 23 whoever typed this up. 24 MR. : I know it's been about three, 25 four years. I know it's kind of tough EFTA00112762 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 1 remembering some of this stuff, that's why we 2 trying to pull - we try to pull documents where 3 we believe it could help you. 4 MR. : Right. 5 MR. : I know we have an email. I 6 don't know if this will help a little bit too. 7 This email right here, it says "Regarding 8 forward cameras from to 9 (Phonetic Sp. *00:23:OC)." Who is that? 10 MR. : He was, I believe, the 11 supervisor of the SIS Department at the time. 12 MR. : And was --. 13 MR. : He was like the lead SIS 14 investigator. 15 MR. : Okay. And then we have 16 , who is that? 17 MR. : He was a communications 18 technician that I supervised in the Facilities 19 Department. 20 MR. : And we have III 21 Was that the executive assistant that you 22 mentioned before? 23 MR. : Oh, correct, yep. 24 MR. : And this is dated January 4, 25 2019. EFTA00112763 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Correct, yep. 2 MR. : And we'll go through the 3 email, but it says on the bottom, it says 4 . Is that - that's your signature, CESCO 5 General Foreman -Acting Facility Manager? 6 MR. : Correct. 7 MR. : So I know this is in January 8 4th. I know you mentioned you were always under 9 the title of General Foreman, but you were also 10 not officially acting, but you were still doing 11 the job. Does that help at all jog your 12 memory? 13 MR. : Right. So an email went out 14 by the AW telling all the department heads that 15 when had left that I would be running 16 the Facilities Department until a replacement 17 was found, hence why I would assume the acting 18 part went into my signature line. 19 MR. : Got it. And do you know when 20 this email went out? 21 MR. : That looks like a month 22 before I left according to the date. 23 MR. : No, no, I meant - you said 24 there was an email that went out saying - from 25 the AW saying that you would be acting --. EFTA00112764 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 1 MR. : Oh. Oh, yeah, I don't - I 2 couldn't - it'd have to have been - it was 3 shortly after - it might have even been from 4 the warden if I'm not mistaken, which was 5 , because I remember whatever happened 6 with down in Colorado and why he didn't 7 come back I remember that the Warden 8 was very, very upset with whatever was going 9 on, and I just remember somebody, I can't 10 recall exactly who - came down to the 11 office, to my office, and spoke to me 12 personally and told me that he would like me to 13 just hold things down until they figure out 14 things, what was going to happen with 15 and see what was going to happen. 16 And then I remember an email going out 17 telling all department heads that I would be 18 to see me for any facilities -related issues -- 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : -- because was no 21 longer there. 22 MR. : Okay. So according to this 23 you were acting facility manager, but you were 24 general foreman, but you were acting at this 25 point. And so, on record is it possible from EFTA00112765 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the time that when Warden assigned you the title to when you left were you the acting facilities manager - facility manager? MR. : So I don't - I would - definitely not up until the time I left because there was some butting of heads between me and • and at times where they overrode a lot of decisions that I made that I'm normally supposed to make underneath my title. So -- MR. : Can you give us an example? MR. believe -- at the very, very end I at the time was running the department for the most part at the time that I left. So it wasn't the whole entire time, it was very sporadic. It was just constant change of roles and responsibilities and - but I was definitely at one point - like I said, it was like a - it was just like an informal internal, "Hey, this is . He's going to be the facility manager until we figure out what's going on," and they fill the position, which they had not since I walked out the door. MR. : So basically - my EFTA00112766 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 1 understanding from what you're saying is on --. 2 MR. : But I guess what you would say is during this time period I would be the guy who would have - if anybody had any questions or concerns involving this contract, they would had to have I guess come to me, yeah. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. : Okay. Now, do you remember - I know you mentioned that the (Indiaccrnible *00:27:37) . previously. Tell me, do you recall if there was an update or upgrade of the camera system going on in - at the MCC in 2018 or `19? MR. : Prior to this right here? MR. : Well, (Indi.scorniblo *00:27:53) ignore this document for a second. Give me - hold on, let me see. We'll come back to that document. Do you recall in general was there an upgrade happening at the MCC for the camera system? MR. : There was an upgrade that started with MR. : Okay. MR. : There was - from what I understand there was camera issues well - going way back well before I even got there, long EFTA00112767 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 29 1 before even got there. They had 2 recorder and decoder issues. There was a whole 3 slew of things and I would assume - I would 4 imagine it was probably due to the age of the 5 institution and there was very little 6 infrastructure upgrades and updating and stuff 7 like that. But I remember prior to, you know, 8 me inheriting what started, there was 9 all kind of issues with the cameras from what I 10 heard from internal communications and stuff 11 like that. 12 So started this program, this 13 project, at the request of higherups. I don't 14 really know the backdrop on that, that was in 15 between them. And then I really did not get 16 involved with it at all until he never came 17 back to work. He dropped off and then I just 18 picked up after him. 19 MR. : I kind of missed a key point 20 I wanted to ask. So as a - can you 21 differentiate the job duties between a facility 22 manager and the general foreman? 23 MR. : So basically, the facility 24 manager they keep track of the budget. They 25 authorize expenditures. They obviously EFTA00112768 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 1 supervise me, and then I in turn supervise the 2 subordinate staff, the wage grade trade guys. 3 But basically, he handled the approval of 4 projects, you know, submitted approvals for 5 projects. He did, like, the five- and 10-year 6 plans for the facility, authorized all the 7 expenditures. He went ahead and sat in on all 8 the department head meetings to give executive 9 staff briefings on what's going on in the 10 department, progress reports, stuff like that. 11 Listen to any concerns that they would have and 12 then he brings it back to us. 13 And in my job, my main job by title is 14 literally - I was in charge of supervising, 15 monitoring, and then the wage grade guys that 16 were below me because I was also wage grade. 17 The facility manager is a GS employee. I was a 18 WS employee just like the rest of the trade 19 guys. And my job was basically to supervise 20 them guys, assign them work, make sure they 21 were coming and going in the facility with the 22 inmates, make sure that they were handling 23 their tools and all that other stuff. I did 24 their performance evaluations and all that 25 other stuff. And the facility manager pretty EFTA00112769 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 much did all that on me. 2 So he was my supervisor. He would 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 evaluate me, you know, keep track of my time and all that other stuff. And that's pretty much it. MR. : Who were some of the employees that reported to you? You said the wage employees. Who were the employees that reported to you? MR. : In the Facility Department it was the trade specific wage guys, so you had the communications technicians, engineering technicians, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, HVAC guys. And then each one of those tradesmen have a (Indiaccrnible *00:31:39) cadre of inmates that work for them, so I would go ahead - work orders would come in from all departments, you know, requests, "Hey, can you change a light bulb? Can you unclog the toilet here?" I would give that work order to the appropriate trade guy and then he would take his group of inmates and go out into the institution and fix it and close out the work order, report back to me. MR. : Okay. Agent , any EFTA00112770 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 1 questions on that before I move forward with 2 the contracts? 3 MR. : Yes, I'm just writing 4 down some follow-up questions. So just - can 5 you just clarify again, when were you actually 6 the acting facilities manager? 7 MR. : It was whenever they wanted 8 me to be basically. It was sporadic and on and 9 off, so --. 10 MR. : Yeah. I got it. You 11 said, like, when or departed 12 they put out an email and then we saw an email 13 that was from January of 2019 that said that 14 you were acting facilities manager but then you 15 said you weren't. 16 MR. : Well, it was in my signature 17 line the acting facility manager, so I think it 18 was just never - I think I rolled with that 19 since left. I think that acting part 20 just stayed in the signature line. But there 21 was --. 22 MR. : After they made the 23 notification that you were the acting facility 24 manager, did they ever tell you that you were 25 not the acting facility manager? EFTA00112771 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 33 1 MR. : Yeah, that's why I was saying 2 it was - I bumped heads with executive staff 3 sometimes because I thought a lot of the 4 decisions that they were making weren't in the 5 best interest of the facility at the time. And 6 when I say that I mean, like, infrastructure 7 stuff, you know. And I kind of like - they 8 didn't like the way I prioritized certain 9 things within the department. 10 So there was some conflicts every now and 11 again and that's why the warden would go ahead 12 and say, "Okay. Hey, III, you know what, 13 you're overseeing the Facilities Department 14 now. Have report to you." And then they 15 also did the same thing with at one 16 point where he came in, which was right around 17 the thing and where he was told that he 18 was going to go ahead and - so they were like 19 dual role. They were pretty much - your 20 executive assistant and the facility manager 21 and then your AWO and the facility manager. 22 MR. : So were you still the 23 acting facility manager and they were just 24 overseeing what you were doing to make sure 25 that in your acting capacity you're doing it EFTA00112772 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 right? Or they --. 2 MR. : That's up to interpretation. 3 I didn't have any decision -making power. It 4 had to all go through them -- 5 MR. : But --. 6 MR. -- while (Indiscernible 7 *00:34:33) . 8 MR. : But at least in your 9 signature line you maintained the acting 10 facility manager? 11 MR. : I guess. I guess I just 12 never took it out, yeah. But 13 MR. : But was there ever 14 anything official that went out, like there was 15 an official email saying you're the acting 16 facility manager. Was there ever anything that 17 said you're no longer the acting facility 18 manager or - you know what I'm saying, like --? 19 MR. : Yeah, no, not to my knowledge 20 there was - because there was talks because 21 they were dragging on the hiring of a 22 replacement facility manager because 23 case, whatever he had going on on his personal 24 side with the Bureau they couldn't fill the job 25 until they finalized what was happening with EFTA00112773 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 1 him. They needed like, I guess, an end date or 2 something like that. They needed to know when 3 was falling off the books in order for 4 them to re-post the job. 5 So there was never - it went on for so 6 long. Like I said, it was from the point that 7 I had walked out the door there in February of 8 '19 there was still no facility manager there. 9 And I also know at the time that I walked out I 10 may have not took the word "acting" out of my 11 signature line, but I know I wasn't acting at 12 that time that I had left per se. 13 And I don't recall ever an official email 14 going out saying where I was acting. I 15 remember an email going out saying to all 16 department heads that was no longer 17 around and if anybody needed anything from the 18 facilities department to see me. 19 MR. : Now, were you --. 20 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:36:07) . 21 MR. : Through the whole time 22 were you a part of these meetings that you said 23 that the facility manager would be a part of? 24 MR. : Some of them, yes, I was. 25 Yep. EFTA00112774 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 1 MR. : So until the time you 2 left you still were sitting in the meeting the 3 facility manager would sit in then? 4 MR. : I was even in those meetings 5 when the facility manager was there. We all 6 sat in together. 7 MR. : Now, would you have been 8 sitting in those meetings if you were just the 9 general foreman? 10 MR. : At his request if he wanted 11 me to or even if one of the executive staff 12 wanted me there. It all depends on what they 13 would have discussed at that time. 14 MR. : Did you (Indiscernible 15 *00:36:44) --? 16 MR. : He could choose. So the -- 17 MR. : (Indiscernible 18 *00:36:45) . 19 MR. -- facility manager could 20 choose to have me there, or he could say, "I 21 got this. Don't worry about, you don't got to 22 come." 23 MR. : So when you were - at 24 least, you know, from the time left 25 until February, were you automatically assumed EFTA00112775 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 to be in those meetings or you'd have to be 2 invited to each individual one? 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. : It's kind of like both. I expected myself to be there because somebody had to represent the department in there, but they also put out a roll call sheet prior to those meetings and if I saw my name on it, I went. 37 MR. : And was your name (Indiccerniblc *00:37:21) on it? MR. : Not always, no. MR. : Okay. No, I'm just trying to get behind were you acting and then you just had someone overseeing you or - yeah, I'm just trying to figure out how because we're - - . MR. : I always had somebody overseeing me, always. MR. : Right. MR. : Because even the facility manager had somebody overseeing him, so (Indloccrniblc MR. : But if you were going to write your resume would you say that you were acting a facility manager for that time? EFTA00112776 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. official. MR. : No, because it wasn't (Indioccrnible *00:37:49)so if well --. MR. : Well, I --. MR. : I'd say that was official. MR. is really. MR. : Yeah. MR. : I couldn't be honest with you. : I don't know what an official MR. : No, if you're acting, if they sent out an email, I would say that's pretty official saying that you're the acting facility manager and you could put it in your signature line. I mean, there's not like --. MR. : I would normally and I thought so, but I also found out also that if you're, like, you know, not temporarily promoted into it and stuff like that and you're not getting paid to do the job - but like I said, I do remember emails going out, I just cannot recall if the word "acting" was put into it or not and if the word "acting" was in it, EFTA00112777 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 1 but I don't know if I ever recall that or not. 2 I mean, there was several times where it 3 would go out because called in sick or 4 he went on vacation. I just don't recall if it 5 was ever done when he went off permanently. I 6 don't know if that was ever --. 7 MR. : Would it be a fair 8 statement for us to say that you were acting 9 facility manager with oversight? Would that be 10 a fair --? 11 MR. : I --. 12 MR. : Or just tell --. 13 MR. : I guess so. 14 MR. : We just have to document 15 it in our reports of, like, you know, what this 16 person's role was from this time to this time. 17 So in order for us to be clear, I want to make 18 sure that we're not writing something that's 19 inaccurate. It's nothing -- 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : -- to do with, like, 22 you're, you know - you know, this is just for 23 our report writing purposes we can say, you 24 know, " went out, you were the acting 25 facility manager from this date until, you EFTA00112778 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 know, February 2019, and then, you know, you 2 clarify that you had oversight from the 3 executive staff in your position and were 4 limited with your facility manager decision 5 making ability." Would that be fair? 6 MR. : Right, because if regardless 7 of whether I was acting or not and whether I 8 had oversight or not, the mere fact that 9 was not there, I still had to do a lot 10 of his duties to keep the department 11 functioning whether somebody deemed me 12 officially acting or not. I was still doing 13 his functions because he was not there. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. : Under oversight from 16 executive staff. 17 MR. : Yeah, that sounds like 18 acting to me, so I just want to make sure that 19 we are clear there. Like you're just saying 20 you're not acting because you weren't official 21 - you know, you weren't temporarily promoted, 22 but you were performing those duties with 23 oversight. 24 MR. : They would - like I said, he 25 would call in sick and not come into work for a 40 EFTA00112779 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 1 couple days or go on vacation, so he would put 2 out an email to everybody in the institution 3 saying, " is acting facility manager 4 for the time that I'm out." 5 MR. : And would you --? 6 MR. : And himself, the 7 facility manager. 8 MR. : Oh, prior to 9 going out in 2018? 10 MR. : He would - if he wanted to 11 take a week off and go somewhere, he would put 12 out an email letting the institution and the 13 executive staff know that " will be 14 acting in my capacity while I'm out." Happened 15 all the time. Same thing like me, I would do 16 the same thing and I would designate one of my 17 subordinates as acting for me if I went out. 18 But I do believe that at some point some 19 kind of email went out by one of the executive 20 staff after left that everybody should 21 come and see me for all facility -related issues 22 till further notice. And like I said, 23 came to my office right after we had found out 24 that wasn't coming back shortly after 25 that Denver trip and he told me that I would EFTA00112780 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 1 have to run the department until they figure 2 out what was going on with him, which was top 3 secret and nobody knew anything. They didn't 4 know nothing, couldn't tell you. 5 MR. : All right. Go ahead, 6 7 MR. : Just to clarify. After you 8 had that meeting with , is that when he 9 sent out that email? 10 MR. : I don't think - I don't know 11 if he was the one that sent it out, I can't 12 recall. I just know some kind of email went 13 out for the department heads and it was also 14 brought up in one of the meetings reminding 15 people that was no longer there and 16 that if they had any facility -related issues I 17 was the one - I was the POC. 18 MR. : Okay. Now, is it okay - I'm 19 going to move forward in the topic. Now, 20 during that time period do you recall during 21 your tenure after left and before 22 left, was there a camera project that 23 was started at the MCC? 24 MR. : It was there. It was already 25 started. I believe when I had gotten there, EFTA00112781 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 1 they were still doing market research and stuff 2 like that. 3 MR. : Is it in 2016? 4 MR. : What's that? 5 MR. : You said when you started, 6 you're talking about 2016? 7 MR. : There was talks of - there 8 was already camera issues I guess had going on 9 when I had gotten there. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MR. : And I believe - well, it was 12 December of 2016, so nothing happened in '16. 13 I think, you know, because I was - I got there, 14 like, the week of Christmas. So going into 15 '17, I know that there was talks about - it 16 wasn't so much on the cameras, it was on the 17 recorders. There was always constant internal 18 chatter between the comm techs and SIS and 19 everything else on how - I guess they had an 20 older system that was analog and everybody else 21 had digital, but their main gripe was, I guess 22 - and I'm not too familiar with the security 23 side of stuff, I'll be honest with you, I 24 always refer to them when I needed a question 25 answered, but from what I gather, what I EFTA00112782 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 1 understand, they weren't able to go back in 2 time on the recorders as far as they 3 experienced, I guess, with other institutions. 4 So there was no secret that there was 5 cameras that were not working throughout the 6 facility. Like I said, that was a dead horse 7 from what I understand. They were dealing with 8 broken cameras long before I had even gotten 9 back there. And this recorder issue for 10 whatever reason evolved and turned into camera 11 issues, you know, and exposed the entire 12 infrastructure eventually. 13 MR. : So you mentioned there's two 14 issues. There is one the - there were actual 15 cameras that weren't recording, I mean, cameras 16 that weren't working. 17 MR. : Right. 18 MR. : That means there was no live 19 feed, there's nothing recording either because 20 the cameras itself were broken? 21 MR. : Right. So the - from what 22 understand you had a combination of two 23 problems there. You had some cameras that 24 legitimately were not working. They just 25 there was no communication. There was no EFTA00112783 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 1 nothing. And then you had other cameras which 2 were in certain cells up in the Special Housing 3 Unit where whether they were working or not, it 4 was to my understanding that there was a lot of 5 damage being done to them by the inmates that 6 were in those cells. So they were either 7 scratching the lenses on the cameras, covering 8 up with wet toilet paper or whatever the case 9 may be. 10 I, myself, I couldn't even tell you if 11 those cameras were ever working. I only knew 12 of one camera in the Special Housing Unit that 13 worked for the cells for the ranges and that 14 was, like, one suicide cell that they had there 15 on J-Range. But I don't - it started out with 16 me, the recorders were the issue, and then they 17 were like, "Oh, okay, we're going to go ahead 18 and spend this money and fix these recorders 19 and get these - this conversion from analog to 20 digital, let's suck in the cameras too that 21 don't work." 22 But I can tell you that I know that SIS 23 was constantly going to the comm techs all the 24 time because they were doing investigations and 25 had no camera footage. It almost seemed like EFTA00112784 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 1 (Indiscernible *00:45:47) . And obviously this 2 was long before the Jeffrey Epstein thing 3 because, you know, I had even left the 4 institution before Jeffrey Epstein got there. 5 This was just for, like, smaller internal 6 investigations that they were doing where they 7 were constantly going to Daniels for the camera 8 footage issues. 9 And the determination was made by 10 and the higherups, I guess, and they said, 11 well, if we're going to go ahead and change 12 this recorder why don't we just go ahead and 13 try to upgrade everything, get some new cameras 14 inside and out. And they even wanted to add 15 cameras to the existing complement because they 16 had a lot of blind spots and then obviously the 17 infrastructure itself, like the wiring and the 18 conduit was all part of that deal. 19 MR. : In your knowledge in 2018 and 20 in `19, how many cameras were there inside the 21 MCC? 22 MR. : I couldn't tell you honestly. 23 There was a lot, but there was also a lot that 24 should have been there. But I do remember 25 had a map of where every single - pre- EFTA00112785 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 1 existing camera was in the institution and I 2 believe the comm techs also had an inventory 3 tracking sheet, because each one of those 4 cameras had an asset number assigned to it 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : -- that was in the MTMMS 7 Maintenance Management System. 8 MR. : What was that --? 9 MR. : So - it's on the Maintenance 10 Management System, the --. 11 MR. : MTMS? 12 MR. TMS, yep, Total Maintenance 13 System. So, you know, all that equipment was 14 in there, so you should be able to pull the 15 report out of there. That would list all those 16 cameras including any asset numbers assigned to 17 the associated components that's maintainable. 18 If it's something that's maintainable and could 19 be repaired and it's not like a throwaway. We 20 call it run-to-die. If it's maintainable, 21 reparable, it's worth putting money into it, 22 it's in that system. 23 MR. : Okay. So in the SHU, do you 24 know how many cameras were in the SHU offhand? 25 MR. : No, because it was very EFTA00112786 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 1 inconsistent because it was to my understanding 2 certain cameras were added throughout the years 3 for certain specific reasons. They would 4 designate certain cells for certain purposes 5 and then they would cancel that purpose and 6 convert it back to a regular cell. I mean, it 7 was just the constant changing of the 8 operations that changed the cameras, and that 9 was just obvious without even knowing the 10 backdrop because you could tell just by the 11 cameras there were so many different makes and 12 models. They weren't all consistent. They 13 weren't all consistent. They weren't the same 14 for the most part depending on what area you 15 were in. 16 MR. : And so, this is -- 17 MR. : So SHU 18 MR. : -- in the SHU you're talking 19 about? You're not talking about 10-South? 20 We're talking about between G, H, J, K, L, M, T 21 that's inside the SHU? 22 MR. : Yes, those for the SHU, as 23 far as I know those were all there pre-existing 24 before me. There was never no camerawork done 25 up there, whether they were working or not. EFTA00112787 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 1 MR. : But you just mentioned they 2 were adding cameras and taking them out. 3 MR. : Yeah, but I was talking 4 institution wide -- 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. not just - yeah, not just 7 SHU, you know. It was institution wide. 8 MR. : So let's get back on track. 9 We talked about the fact that started a 10 project and the project - what did that project 11 for the cameras entail? 12 MR. : So I really - for the project 13 the way it was designed, the way we wanted it 14 done was had put this package together. 15 We were going to get - he had the map of the 16 cameras I was telling you about. So we were 17 going to upgrade the existing cameras, add new 18 cameras because took this map, brought 19 it to the executive staff and to SIS and they 20 said, "Hey, listen, this is what we have now. 21 We're going to go ahead and try to get this 22 project. Where do you need cameras?" 23 So they did a tour around the institution 24 and they went ahead and they asked to have 25 other cameras placed, like on certain ranges EFTA00112788 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 50 1 that didn't have any coverages. There was, 2 like, a little mini TV rec room in the housing 3 units that had no camera coverage in them. 4 There was a lot of blind spots in certain areas 5 throughout the institution. So they went ahead 6 and they added what they wanted to add. 7 But then also because the recorder was 8 getting upgraded, the infrastructure that was 9 in place because it was analog, obviously it 10 was going to go to digital, they had to run new 11 wiring, new conduit. All that had to be done. 12 So under that contract, last I remember 13 walking out that door, what happened was it 14 came in over a million dollars originally and 15 somebody came back and said, "Listen, we need 16 to get this to 800,000 or lower." Somebody