Preliminary Hearing — Day 1 (July 6, 2026) (Part 1 of 2)

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Preliminary Hearing — Day 1 (July 6, 2026) (Part 1 of 2)
Court proceeding — State of Utah v. Tyler James Robinson (Case 251403576, 4th Judicial Dist. Ct., Utah County). Transcript is the YouTube auto-caption track of the Court TV feed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fq2kCMVMXI) — verbatim ASR, not a certified court transcript.

Good morning. Court is now in session. State of Utah versus Tyler James Robinson. Council, can you enter your Chris Ballard are also present. Good morning. >> Good morning, your honor. Kathy Nester, Michael Bert, Richard Novak, and Stacy Visser here on behalf of Mr. Robinson, who's seated to my right. >> Good morning, Mr. Robinson. Good morning. >> For the record, the court also recognizes the presence of Miss Erica First, with respect to courtroom protocol, to maintain security and decorum, any individual who exits the courtroom during proceedings will not be permitted to re-enter until the recess. All council are expected to take reasonable measures to safeguard confidential communication. Such measures may include the use of screen protections on electronic devices and care to avoid the inadvertent capture of privileged or private discussions by recording equipment or by those present in the courtroom. In addition, the microphones at your tables have been turned off. Again, an attempt to try to minimize the possibility of any of the communications being captured. I ask that if you are speaking that you come to the lectum and that microphone will be live and so that's the best way that we can hear you and it is captured on the record. All right. Second, the court will address the camera operator and the court knows there is no still photographer for today's proceedings pursuant to the court's ruling from last week. To our camera operator, would you my microphone. There we go. Now it's back on. Uh, could you state your name for the record? >> Uh, John Wilson, KSL News. >> Mr. Wilson, what is uh what uh duties will you perform today? >> Shooting the proceeding according to the the court order. >> All right. And have you had a chance to fully review the court standing to firm order. >> I have, sir. >> All right. And you understand all the requirements set forth in that order as it applies to your activities today? >> Yes, sir. >> Do you require additional time to review the order or to adjust the equipment to ensure compliance? >> No, sir. >> Do you anticipate any difficulty complying with today's or with the order or with any of the court's instructions? >> No, sir. >> All right. Well, thank you, Mr. Wilson. Next, turning to the amended motion to allow the use of portable electronic devices uh filed by the news media and their council. The court appreciates the arguments presented in the motion and recognizes the importance of the press uh and the criminal justice system. Having considered the motions before the court, the request to permit representatives of the news media to use portable electronic devices during the preliminary hearing is respectfully denied. The request to permit council for the news media to use portable electronic devices during the preliminary hearing is granted as officers of the court. Council shall be held to the same standards applicable to the council for the parties and comply with the court's standing decorum order. I wish to turn to the matter before us today, the upcoming preliminary hearing. And the court is mindful of the safety and well-being of all parties, council, witnesses, court staff, and members of the public who are present. The court is also mindful of the duty to protect and uphold the constitutional rights of both Mr. Robinson and Miss Kirk. To serve those important interests, the court reminds all persons who will be in attendance that the portable electronic devices will not be permitted in the courtroom or on the fourth floor. In addition, each person who is in attendance will be afforded the dignity and respect due to them. And pursuant to the standing quorum order, all spectators shall be quiet, civil, and orderly. Spectators shall not engage in any distracting, disruptive, provocative, disrespectful, univil, or threatening behavior of any kind. Spectators shall not make any audible comments of any kind. Shall not shake or nod their heads. Shall not otherwise make any gestures during the hearing. And the court recognizes that this hearing uh may invoke emotion uh from all from different from everyone and and and that the court understands the human nature of that. But also it's important that this uh courtroom is orderly. A spectator shall not wear or display any pins, buttons, signs, clothing, or photo photographs expressing support for or against any person related to this case or the status of of this case as a capital offense. Turning to councel. Before we begin, I want to acknowledge that over these past 10 months, I've had a chance to observe each of you, and I find that you are all competent, prepared, and that you care deeply about this case. I ask you to continue to conduct yourselves in accordance with the rules governing professional conduct, civility, and ethics. I al also ask that you remain mindful of the constitutional rights of all parties and in every engagement that you treat each person you engage with with the dignity and respect they are inherently do as they are human beings. I want to turn also to uh objections. the format that I wish to follow if objections are made. When an objection is made, all parties shall pause so that the objection may be heard. Speaking objections are not permitted. If any party believes that a extended argument is necessary, particularly on sensitive matters, that party may request to approach the bench and all parties will approach the bench. Both sides will be afforded an opportunity to be heard for or against the objection after which I will issue a ruling either sustaining or overruling the objection. Once the ruling has been made, direct or cross-examination may resume. I anticipate that we will begin each morning at 9:00 am with the exception of Wednesday. We will begin at 100 pm. We will take a 15minute morning break and a 15minute afternoon break. If there is a situation that necessitates a break, uh please approach the bench and we can address that. We will recess for lunch at noon for one hour each day with the exception of Wednesday and court will resume at 100 p.m. and continue until 5:00 p. p.m. each day. Does either Thank you, Mester. >> Thank you, Mr. Fernander. Do either party wish to invoke the exclusionary rule? >> Defense invoked, your honor. >> All right. Defense has invoked the exclusionary rule. I ask that all witnesses, if present, be excused from the courtroom and ask that each party monitor the courtroom to ensure your witnesses aren't present, as I'm not familiar with who they are. Of course, uh, victim representative is excluded from that role as is the case manager Okay. And and and I anticipate that from here on out that they're just going to come to the lectum. So, >> Okay. So uh just for the benefit of the record uh uh to the questions uh yes or no questions um well the parties have entered their appearances and they're all present and uh neither party wanted the benefit of the record. Miss Netor invoked the exclusionary rule and uh Mr. Grunander if you'd like to approach the lectum as as the microphones at the tables are not activated. >> Thank you Judge. Yeah, we anticipated that the defense would invoke the exclusionary rule. Um, uh, we met with, we consulted with defense for just a couple of minutes prior to the start of this hearing. We essentially have two case agents, your honor. Um, David Hull and Brian Davis, both from the state of Utah. Um, the defense has consented that both of them can be present. So, one is seated at my table, uh, the front table. This is Brian Davis, Agent Davis, and Agent Hull is seated on the bench just um on the other side of the bar. Um he will be present for this hearing as well. Both of these agents will be testifying as part of the hearing. >> Thank you, Ms. Netor. Uh and your microphone's dead if you want to come forward and and it sounds like you've stipulated, but just for the benefit of the record. >> We have stipulated, your honor, for purposes of this hearing only. >> Thank you. All right. So, agents Davis and Hall are permitted to remain in the courtroom during the duration of the preliminary hearing. Any other business that we need to address before we turn to the business >> Mr. Novak. >> Thank you, Honor. Richard Novak for Mr. Robinson. Your honor, the court had issued an order um maybe it was early last week um asking the parties to meet and confer about the question of um whether exhibits will be published and we did and we can either deal with this as a general matter or we can deal with it on an exhibit byexhibit basis but I just want to make sure that we didn't lose track of that issue. Um the court had earlier entered an order granting in part the defense motion to exclude um techn I'm just going to say technology in the courtroom because it's a shorthand for video cameras and photography and microphones because the parties had earlier stipulated that none of the exhibits would be available from the preliminary hearing would be a available for inspection or copying. I understand that publishing the exhibits in the courtroom may technically be different than that, but whenever the court is ready to deal with that issue, we just want to make sure um that we do so >> before it's too late. >> That is that's always the right time to do it. >> Okay. Thank you. Turning to the state uh in defense, do we anticipate this being a long argument or is it something that we can handle that there are some stipulations that we can address right now and then the remainder we can address on an exhibit byexhibit basis? >> Mr. Gernander, Judge, I don't know that we have any stipulations, but with that said, um it is correct. Mr. Novak is correct. we did meet and and consult on this issue. Um I wanted to give the court just a brief road map but part of that was exhibits seven 8 and nine that we propose introducing will be graphic in nature. Um and those were the exhibits I was referring to at the last hearing where we would like to take a short break before they were published if they are published whether it uh be by way of video and or audio. Um, judge, I don't see any TVs or monitors here in the courtroom today with respect to publishing something that would uh go beyond council table and your honor's bench. So, I don't know how much this is of an issue this is going to be anyway, at least with respect to pictures or video. >> Thank you. And that's that's a great point. and the court's thought about this issue in regards to publication of exhibits. Obviously, the court will entertain all motions before any uh but after we're considering it. Here's here's the two points that I wish to address in regards to the exhibits. Uh I there is benefit to publication of certain exhibits but uh I also do not and this is going to the camera operator do not want them to be uh displayed on TV. I I I believe it is important that the parties know that the exhibits are being viewed by the judge in real time and in in in open court. However, uh what I will do is have the monitor placed against that wall to reduce the possibility of it being broadcast. And so, um on the exhibits that the court grants to be published in court and not going to Mr. Novak's point, not to be given copies to and the court is trying to be mindful that if it's shown on TV, that's essentially giving a copy to and so the court is taking Mr. Novak's uh point in consideration. And so the anticipation is uh and I know I'm catching staff a little bit offguard is placing that television right behind Jeff or baiff to minimize the accidental capture by the camera uh and and allowing it to be displayed. I recognize that that is not the ideal spot for viewing, but I am also trying to balance uh the rights and and important considerations that defense has made. And again, this will be on an exhibit byexhibit basis on what is published or what is not. But the for the for the exhibits that the court rules uh can be published in open court, that is going to be the location of the monitor. Um and and again the court spent a bit of time weighing what should be done where the monitor should be placed to uh accomplish the purposes of publication at the same time protecting uh especially as it may relate to sensitive material if the court deems that to be publishable in the courtroom. any questions that I can address from either side uh or clarification needed or thoughts that you wish to share? >> No, I think I understand completely. >> All right. >> All right. And Mr. Gernander, as it relates to that, um are we anticipating the possibility of that coming up very soon? uh in regards to publishing potentially exhibits. >> Um not real soon, but but today certainly I would anticipate. Judge, um for the course of information, we anticipate presenting four witnesses. Um they're all law enforcement witnesses. Officer Chris Baggley, uh he's now with Spanish Fork Police Department. He was with Utah Valley University Police Department. He'll be the first witness. The second witness will be Agent David Hull. and those exhibits 789 we anticipate coming in through him. The third witness will be agent Brian Davis again with the state of Utah, a case agent who's here presently. And lastly, Sergeant Jennifer Fuina also of the Utah Department of Public Safety. Um, and we do anticipate admitting between 40 and 50 exhibits. >> Thank you. All right, Mr. Mr. Grunander, I I apologize. You walked away before I got my question out. Uh, if we anticipate taking a break around 10:30, uh, do you anticipate any potential exhibits for publication being requested prior to 10:30? >> I do, judge. I do. I think the first several exhibits should be published. >> So, >> all right. Well, let's do this. I I want our preliminary hearing to move smoothly and with as least amount of delays as possible. So, let's take a brief break to allow the placement of that monitor, a brief test to make sure it's working, and then we can be seamless in moving forward. >> One quick question, judge, for council's benefit. Are the monitors at the tables going to be turned on? >> The monitors are, and that's why I wanted to give that instruction early on to for each party to monitor their monitor. Um because if if the camera is doing a wide sweep picture of the courtroom, I I can't prevent it the accidential capture. Obviously, the decorum order anticipates not focusing in to the point that it's focused on your monitors, but I ask all the parties to be mindful, especially as it relates to the sensitive material that may may be published or may not. But please just take a look at that um and be mindful of that. uh but I will leave it to you. So I I believe it's important that all parties see what is before the court. So if you have objections, it's right there. You can say, "Okay, I see what the court's saying. I have objection or not." Or or just to confer with your client. I I just want to make sure that there is no uh misunderstanding of what's being presented to allow parties the benefit of the record and it is clear what is being presented to the court for consideration as evidence. Thank you. >> And we do have one exhibit that will be in physical form. Um and so we will be using the easel. I think that's just over by the jury box. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Grander. Uh before we break, I do wish to remind the parties that this is a preliminary hearing. It is a probable cause standard. And if you could keep that in mind as you're presenting your evidence. This is not intended to chill what you present, but keep in mind that uh the standard is probable cause and that is what the court as a magistrate will be looking to. All right. With that, let's uh how much time do we need for the placement of the monitor? All right. Well, let's break for six minutes. Uh well, let's actually let's make it easy on ourselves. Let's just come back at 9:35. uh and and we'll be resume court at that time. Thank you. Court is back in session. Noting the presence of council and the parties to the state. Are you ready to proceed? >> Yes, we are, judge. But prior to calling our first witness, I would like Mr. McBride to make a brief report on discovery updates and then just inform the court that the state has provided copies of all exhibits for today's proceedings to the defense uh in advance >> Yes, your honor. Uh my report, the last hearing um is the latest report as of June 18th. We had provided approximately 100% of the material in our possession over the last week. We have received additional materials from SBI uh due to preparation uh for this hearing. Those materials have not yet been provided, but they will be as soon as this hearing is complete. >> Thank you. Defense, I require the benefit of the record. >> No, your honor. >> Thank you, Miss Netor. In case the mic didn't pick that up, she declined. All right, turning to the state, you may call your first witness. Governor of the state calls officer Chris Baggley. >> Officer Baggley, if you'd like to come forward. Looks like he's being brought All right, officer Begley, if you wouldn't mind coming forward uh past the >> You do solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give in the case now penning before the court will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God. All right, officer Begley, if you wouldn't mind having a seat at the at And after you're situated, to your left is a bottle of water. And if you wouldn't mind bringing the microphone toward you to ensure that it picks up your voice. >> Can you hear that? >> I can. Thank you, Mr. Gernander, your witness. >> Thank you, your honor. Good morning, sir. >> Good morning. Will you please state your name for the record and spell your last name? >> Christopher Baggley. Last name spelling B A G L U Y. >> And um how are you employed? >> I'm employed at the Spanish Fork Police Department as a police officer. >> As a police officer. Um what is your position or your rank there? >> I'm just a senior officer. >> Senior officer. Okay. How long have you been with the Spanish Fork Police Department? >> About five months. >> Five months. How long have you been a police officer? >> 26 years. >> Okay. Um will you briefly describe uh for the court's benefit your training um what you did to become a police officer? >> I did the Utah Post uh Academy which is about 600 hours of training for basic things to become a police officer, report writing, arrest control, stuff to that effect. >> When you say post academy, is post an acronym? >> It is. >> What does that stand for? >> Police officer standard training. >> Okay. Um, were you certified through post? >> I was. >> Okay. And what did that certification require? >> Uh, going through that post and graduating uh all the academy all the credits that you could get up with hours and then uh physical fitness stuff to that effect and then graduating from that to earn the certificate. >> Was there also testing involved? >> There was. >> At at the academy? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, were you employed in September of 2025? >> I was. And where were you employed then? >> Utah Valley Police Department. >> And how long did you work for the Utah Valley University uh Police Department? >> Uh five years. And do you recall what your position or your rank was there? >> A senior officer there. >> Senior officer. Okay. Describe, if you would, um just your general duties as a police officer at Utah Valley University. >> Uh there at Utah Valley University. We'd patrol the campus. We'd walk around. We'd patrol. We would do investigations. If there was crimes to that effect, we'd make sure that students or staff, if they needed something, we'd be there for them. So, basic police, kind of like a school resource officer, community oriented policing. >> Okay. Was this a full-time position? >> It was. >> Okay. Um, did you work in law enforcement prior to UVU? >> I did. >> And where did you work? I worked at Utah Valley or sorry, Utah County Sheriff's Office for 13 years. Uh before that, I worked with Springville City Police Department for six years and also with the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office for a year. >> What were your positions with those departments? >> Uh varies. I did K9, I did SWAT, I did motors, I senior officer, FTO officer, uh detectives. >> Okay. Um, while you were at Utah Valley University, did you have access to the video surveillance system on campus? >> Yes, I did. >> Um, and how so? >> I was at it was at our desktop where our police station is. Uh, we have desks and on our desktops, we'd have access to it there or we'd go into dispatch and they'd have a wall full of camera systems that we could look at. >> How familiar did you become with that system? >> Uh, very familiar. And can you describe how you became very familiar? >> Um, like I said, it was one of our daily routines that we'd go in there if we were looking for somebody or tracking something back. We'd go in, we'd go back to that time frame, we could we could track trace somebody to track somebody through campus. Um, I'd also turn around, make some maps so it was easier for dispatch or somebody to click on an area in the campuses, where the buildings were, and be able to click a little bit easier and get a faster response. So, made some maps and stuff like that. And how often did you use this system? >> Every day. >> Okay. Um, did you become familiar with the campus at Utah Valley University when you were working there? >> Yes. >> And explain how you became familiar with it. >> Um, like I said, we we'd walk around. I would train other officers. We'd make sure that we knew all the ins and outs, the back doors. We'd make sure we knew where every classroom was, where every entrance and exit was. We'd secure the building. Uh, we patrol the neighborhoods. We patrol around campus and then we also have out offsite campuses that we drive to and make sure that they're secure also. >> Okay. You mentioned that you patrol the neighborhoods. >> Yes. >> Surrounding campus. >> Yes. >> What about the neighborhood to the north and east of campus? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um what was your purpose of for patrolling those neighborhoods as an officer for UVU? >> Um one it was right next to UVU so we patrolled it. Sometimes people would run up in that area or be walking up that way. We'd have stolen bikes, stuff like that. So we go into the areas, look for stuff. Um, also with ORM Police Department, we'd go back up them quite a bit for other calls and a lot of what would be in the area. >> Okay. So back up just a little bit. So Utah Valley University is located in what city? >> Oram, Utah. >> Oram, Utah. Okay. Um, how familiar did you become with the buildings on campus? >> Uh, very familiar. >> And the walkways >> are very familiar. >> You mentioned the entrances and exits to the buildings. >> Yes. What about parking structures? >> Yes. >> Um, same answer for that. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, are you familiar with the courtyard or or the uh outdoor amphitheater on campus? >> I am. >> And generally speaking, where is that located on campus? >> It's more of the central is an outdoor area centered by a bunch of buildings on the around it. So, it's in the center of campus pretty much. >> Okay. Can you describe um what it looks like? This courtyard, this amphitheater. >> It's kind of like an amphitheater look. So, you got some grass and a couple steps that go up. You got some cement on top with some bushes and flowers. You've got places where people can sit and eat. They come out and study and relax on the grass. And there's a waterfall uh with a little pond that comes down into a stream. So, >> okay. Um, are you familiar with the surroundings, the buildings around the the the amphitheater? >> Yes, I am. >> Okay. In relationship to this amphitheater, this courtyard, um, where is the Hall of Flags located? >> Uh, it would be directly west of the courtyard. >> Okay. Um, is it part of the courtyard or is it just off of the courtyard? >> It's kind of the courtyard. It like butts up right against the courtyard. So, it'll be the west side of the courtyard. >> Okay. So to the west of the courtyard, >> is there a walkway across the Hall of Flags? >> There is. There's an inside one and an outside one. >> Okay. So what is the Hall of Flags then? >> The Hall of Flags is a kind of like a bridge between two buildings that all the flags throughout the world are represented in there with some chairs where people sit down and relax with windows so you can see through all the way to the Utah Lake. >> Okay. What are those two buildings that are connected by this Hall of Flex? >> Uh the Fugal building uh over to like the science building area. Okay. So, you mentioned the Fugal building. Where is the Fugal building located in relationship to this courtyard? Uh, >> it's kind it's to the south of the courtyard. >> Okay. Uh, does it run up against the courtyard? >> It does. >> The building. Okay. What about the Woodberry business building? Where is that in relationship to the courtyard? >> That's kind of southeast and it runs up right against the courtyard also. >> Okay. And in relationship to the Fugal building, where is that Sornson or excuse me, that that business building, the Woodberry business? Woodbury business is right directly east of the Fugle. >> Okay. Um what about the Sorenson Center? Where is that located with respect to this courtyard? >> Uh the Sorenson Center is going to be kind of like a northeast uh of the courtyard. >> Okay. Does it again run up against this courtyard? >> Yes, it does. >> Okay. And where is it in relationship to the business building? Woodbury business building is just directly south of the Swaren. >> Directly south. Okay. Um the Losi Center. Are you familiar with that building? >> I am. And >> where is it located on campus? >> Uh directly east of the courtyard amphitheater area. >> Okay. Does it run up to the courtyard the center? >> No, not really. >> Okay. >> It doesn't run right up against it. So the Sorson building is kind of like right between those two. >> Okay. In relationship to the Sornson building, what direction is the Losi building? >> Uh, east. >> East. Okay. Um, are you familiar with the LDS Institute building on campus? >> Yes, I am. >> And where is that located? >> That is going to be located north of the Losi building. Um, and just kind of like northeast of the courtyard. >> Okay. And is there a parking structure uh next to this institute building? >> Yeah, there's there is. >> And where is that? >> That is going to be So you you mentioned the institute building is going to be north of the Losi center. There is a parking structure that has several levels of parking. It's going to be directly west of the institute building and then they also have a parking struct not parking structure parking lot to the north of that across the road. >> Okay. with respect to the parking structure. Okay. >> Um can you describe for the court how one would enter this parking structure driving and even walking? How do you enter and exit that structure? >> So on the north end of the parking structure is campus drive. You can drive in and exit on the level one. So that's a ground level. That's where you'd enter if you're driving in or exiting back out on campus. Um then goes up to level two. And on level two at exit is what's called heat plant road. In between the institute building and the garage is a little road and there's an exit right there that you can drive out. Um you can also if you were to park in there you could walk out right there at that exit only where I was talking about on that south east side. You can walk out there or on the north end of that garage. There are some stairs that go up all the levels and it goes down to the bottom level and across the street through a tunnel to the LDS Institute building. And then when you pop up on level two, you can walk over to the institute building. >> Okay. Can you describe how long of a walk it would take from that parking structure to get to the courtyard on campus approximately? >> Uh couple of minutes because when you go to that far uh southeast uh exit, you can walk directly almost to the courtyard. You can also walk along the south end of the LDS inst. >> Okay. Officer, I'm going to turn your attention to states exhibit number one. >> Let me know when you can see that. >> I can see it. >> Just for staff, let's go ahead and not publish it until it's admitted into evidence that we're going to take it off the monitors. Uh but for the witness, uh he should be That's fine. So, table monitors witness but not the main monitor. Thank you. All right, Mr. Gander. Thank you. >> Thank you, Judge. Do you see that plaintiff's exhibit number one, officer? >> I do. >> And do you recognize that exhibit? >> Yes, I do. >> And what is that? >> Uh, this is an area of the buildings plus the courtyard in the middle of all the grassy area. So this is an area of the campus at Utah Valley University. >> Is it a is it a photograph? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Are you familiar then with what's depicted in this photograph? >> Yes, I am. >> Um does it fairly and accurately portray this area of campus? >> Yes, it does. >> Okay. Um can you tell the court what direction the camera is facing when this um photograph was taken? >> That's kind of facing north and a little to the east. >> Okay. Does it uh depict a number of the buildings that we've talked about today? >> Yes, it does. >> For example, um the Hall of Flags. Does it show the Hall of Flags? >> Yes, it does. >> The walkway of it of the Hall of Flags. >> Um what about the Sorenson Center? Does it show that? >> Yes, it does. >> Uh the Woodbury Business Building? >> Yes, it does. >> The Fugal Building? >> Yes. >> What about the Losi Center? Can you see that from this photograph? >> Yes. Is this photograph a fair and accurate depiction of this area of UVU campus on September 10th, 2025? >> Yes, the state offers states exhibit one. Your >> honor, we would object to failure to lay a foundation for Oh, I'm sorry. >> I It is a little bit tricky because that microphone. >> Sorry about that. >> Your honor, we would object um to inability to authenticate. There's not been a foundation laid that this officer took this photo, can verify when it was taken. um or by whom it was taken. So, we would object. >> Mr. Ginander, would you like us to argue now or approach the bench? >> Well, as it relates to this, I I'll hear argument. >> Okay. Judge, first of all, it's very clear, wellestablished law, that the person who took the photograph is not required to be present to lay the foundation for it. uh what's required for foundation is that the witness has knowledge of what's depicted in the photograph um and uh can testify to its accuracy and that's exactly what this off officer has done. We laid an ample amount of foundation about this area of campus. He's confirmed that uh it depicts this area of campus that was previously described. He confirmed the buildings that he can see there. He also confirmed that it was an accurate depiction of this on September 10th, 2025. >> Thank you. Any further argument, Miss Nesser? >> Mr. Hernander, >> I we did file a um standing objection at the very beginning of the hearing. I would just refer to our standing objection as well. Um I know this is not a there's no written testimony in this, but just out of an abundance of caution, I want to um also refer to our standing objection. Thank you, Miss Nester. All right. Having considered the uh arguments, I find uh I'm going to overrule the objection and admit exhibit one. This witness has firsthand knowledge of the location as well as the building locations. That foundation has been laid. He also stated it was a fair and accurate representation of what's being depicted here. And for those reasons, the fence objection is overruled. states exhibit one is admitted into evidence and may be published uh to the courtroom. >> Okay. >> So, the state would move to publish that to the courtroom. >> Officer Bagley, are you able to see the monitor that's um here in the court that's pointed towards the uh the gallery? >> Yes. Um, from where you're seated, are you comfortable in describing um where the courtyard is on that photograph, on that exhibit? >> Yes. >> And for the record, where is that located? >> Uh, so all the grass that looks like a triangle. Uh, the amphitheater look that is going to be the courtyard amphitheater area. Uh, it's got the tent in it, the white tent that's at the bottom on the far left of the picture. That would be the courtyard area that's is surrounded by buildings, more of the grass area. I'm going to approach the photo. Well, I'm just going to When you look at this this exhibit to the left of the photograph, um there's a walkway there. What is that walkway? >> So, the red brick walkway that is going north to the top of the picture on the far left is going to be the Hall of Flags, the outside top of it. >> Okay. On the bottom of this photograph, there's a white roofed building. Um it's the largest building, at least as far as what's depicted on this exhibit. What building is that? >> That would be the Fugal building. >> Okay. And just to the right of that, so that would be to the east of the Fugle building. What building is that? >> The other red brick pathway area, that is the Woodbury business building. >> Okay. And if I were to walk north, so left on this photograph with respect to that uh red brick walkway area, there's another building sort of triangular in shape. The the rooftop. What building is that >> with that white rooftop? That would be the Sorson building. >> That's the Sorenson building. And what about the Losi building? You've described that. Where is that located on this photograph? >> If you go to that triangle white roof, if you go directly to the right, so the right side of the picture, that is going to be the Losi building. It's got several levels. >> Is it to the right and up a little bit as well? >> Okay. And that would be east on this photograph. Is that >> It's got the gravel rooftop. >> Gravel rooftop. Okay. Um, I referred you to the LDS Institute building. Are you able to see that in this photograph? >> Yes, you are. >> And where is that located? >> Asking you to speak directly north of the Losi building. It's going to be that other white roofed building on the far top of the picture. >> Okay. Thank you, officer. We can take that down, your honor, as Officer Bagley, I'm going to take you back to the date of September 10th, 2025. Do you recall that day generally? >> I do. >> Uh, were you working that day? >> Yes, I was >> at UVU. >> I was. Yes. >> Okay. Um, do you remember what time your shift started approximately? >> Yes, approximately started about 11 o'clock in the morning. >> 11 o'clock in the morning. Okay. Did you receive a specific assignment shortly after coming onto duty? >> Yes, I did. >> And what was that assignment? We it was to secure the top of the Hall of Flags on the south end. So we had people that were gathering on top of that that were looking down on top of the tent. So we wanted to secure that area. So I was put up on top of the Hall of Flags on the south end. >> Okay. My apologies, your honor. Could we have exhibit one published again? >> Go ahead and republish stage exhibit one. >> Thank you. >> You mentioned that you were securing the south end of the walkway on top of the Hall of Flags. >> Yes. And so where where do we find that in this exhibit, officer? >> So if you can see the tent, the white tent there, that rooftop where the red brick is, I was on top of that. And there's some actually looks like yellow crime scene tape. That was some of our barrier that we put up so people wouldn't go above that and walk. So I was sitting right by those flat plots plants that were by the fugal on the south end. >> So is the south end on the bottom of this photograph? Yes. Where that walkway kind of begins from the bottom? Yes. And you've referred to a tent. Is that the the white object we see inside the courtyard? >> Yeah, that square white object with the tent. >> Okay. Thank you. So, you were securing that area. >> Yes. Um, did you have the opportunity that morning, you you mentioned you checked on about 11:00 >> that morning and and later to um walk around campus that day? >> Yes. >> Uh, did you walk along the Hall of Flags that day? >> I did. >> That walkway? >> Yes. >> Uh, did you visit the courtyard that day as well? >> Uh, down below. Yes. On the south end. I was down there. >> Okay. Um, let's see. Officer, I'm going to turn your attention to states exhibit number two, and that should come up on your monitor there. Let me know when you see that if you would. Your honor, if we could maybe not have it on the lectern screen. We're getting reports that the documents shown on the lectern screen are being live streamed. It's live streamed. Um, so maybe if we could just not show that one until it's admitted. >> Mr. Gander, >> I'll submit it to the court judge. I've got I've got copies of these for myself. >> Okay. >> That I can refer refer to as I'm asking questions. >> All right. Well, I'll go ahead and grant the request by Miss Netor. We'll go ahead and pour >> just there should be a power button to >> You're and if at any point, Mr. Granader, you do need the uh to use the monitor. Let's revisit that and obviously uh Miss Nester, you can renew your objection if needs be. But for now, the monitor's turned off. Let's go ahead and proceed. >> Thank you. Officer, do you see states exhibit number two on your monitor? >> Yes, I do. >> And do you recognize that? >> I do. >> And what is that? >> This is a picture of the from the east side looking west of the campus. >> Okay. Um, are you familiar with what's depicted in this photograph? >> Yes, I am. >> Okay. Um, and does it, um, show, for example, the Losi Center that we've talked about? >> Yes, it does. >> Does it depict the uh, Woodbury business building that we've talked about? >> Yes. >> What about the Fugal building? >> Yes. >> Does it show the Sorenson Center? >> Yes. >> And also the Hall of Flags? >> Yes. Uh, in this particular exhibit, can you also see the courtyard? >> I can. A partial of it. >> A partial of it. Okay. Um, does it fairly and accurately depict this area of campus of UVU on September 10th, 2025? >> Yes. >> Okay. Your state offers states exhibit number two. >> Your honor, we renew our standing objection. We also argue that a foundation hasn't been laid in terms of the time this was taken or who took it um and at what point in time this was um created and how. So I don't think he has any personal knowledge of that and we'd object. >> Mr. Gander, >> same arguments, judge. He has testified that he's familiar with it. He has personal familiarity with it. He's testified that it's fair and accurate um as of the day of September 10th, 2025. And that's what was asked of him. >> All right. I will go ahead and overrule the objection by defense uh noting that the witness has laid uh well he has expressed uh that this is a fair and accurate representation of what it purports to be and he's familiar with it. He was there on the day on September 10th and because that foundation has been laid uh states exhibit 2 is admitted and may be published. >> Thank you judge. Um, state moves to publish exhibit two. >> All right. Um, officer, I'm going to direct your attention to this uh exhibit on the monitor um facing the gallery of the court today. Um, can you describe uh there's there's a large building in the middle of that photograph, slightly above the middle, but what building are we looking at there? >> You're looking at the top of the Los the rooftop of the Losi building. It's got two different grays, like a lighter gray and a darker gray kind of Are you familiar with that rooftop then? >> Yes, I am. >> And what's it made of? >> It's made of gravel. >> Gravel. Okay. You you mentioned two different grades. Or did you say grays? >> Grays. >> Grays. Okay. All right. >> Um, now you you described that you could you could see the courtyard, but it wasn't easily visible in this photograph. Where is the courtyard located on the state's exhibit number two? So you got the white roof that's going to be in the middle just just to the top of the building where the LCI is that I described. There's a white roof there. That's the Sorson building and it's just below that you can see some grass and that's where the courtyard is. It's just to the left of that white roof. Your honor, I'm going to ask if the witness could actually come down from the stand and and point out where the courtyard is located in this exhibit for the court's benefit. >> All right. Do we have a second microphone? So, uh, it picks up his voice. Okay, Miss Nester, thank you for allowing us. Uh, officer, you may step down, approach the monitor, and I would ask that you uh speak into the microphone when when responding to a question. >> Okay. Can you hear me? >> I can. Thank you. So officer, for our benefit, would you describe again where the Aloi center is in this photograph? >> Aloi center is going to be this one with the gray roofs. It's got two different colors of gray. >> Two different colors of gray. Okay. I'm blind. I can't see those two different colors from here, but um can you describe where the court Looks like we >> There we go. >> Can you point to where the courtyard is located on that exhibit? Courtyard is going to be here where this grass is in this area right here. >> Okay. And um what about the Fugal building? >> Fugal building is going to be this building right here. >> And the Woodbury business building then >> Woodbury is going to be this one right here with this red brick path >> and the Sorenson Center. >> Sorenson Center is going to be this white roofed one that's right here. >> Okay. Now on this exhibit, can you see the LDS Institute building and the parking structure that we've talked about? >> No, not really. You got the back side of the inst building which is right here and the parking structures over there. Goodness. >> Mr. Gander, let me stop you just for the benefit of the record because the record is picking up the audio when you're pointing it to and I know it may be a little bit laborious to do this but as you're identifying indicate the general location on it, the left side, right side, middle, uh upper, lower, just so the record knows to some degree where you're pointing. Uh and that way because the video isn't being captured. So if you would do that, it just creates a more complete record. Thank you. >> Understood. That's fair. Thank you, judge. Um, so again, let's point to the courtyard, and if you'll describe as best you can where that is located on the photograph. >> On this photograph, the courtyard is going to be this grass area. That's going to be to the towards the top of the picture. The baseball field's behind it. It's closer to the surrounded buildings. There's some grass in there. That would be the courtyard area. >> Okay. Okay, we've talked about the Hall of Flags and the walkway above that Hall. Where is that located on this photograph? >> The Hall of Flags is going to be right by the courtyard just to the west of it. There's a red brick towards the top of the picture. There's a red brick pathway that goes from the Fugal building which is on the left of the picture towards the right of the picture which is a science building area. >> Okay. And then the Sorenson Center, is that the uh building in the middle with the large white roof? >> Yeah, it's going to be kind of towards the upper part of the picture, middle of it. It's going to be a white roof. That will be the Sornson Center. >> And it just to the north and east of the courtyard. >> Yes. North and east. >> Okay. And then finally, if you would describe the Losi building, the location of that on this exhibit. >> The Losi building is going to be pretty much in the middle on the right side. So middle to the right. Uh it's going to have two different colors of gray, a darker gray and a lighter gray. There's a red pathway and that will be the Los Cy Center. >> Okay. You mentioned officer that uh there were different stories on the Losi building. How many stories did the Losi building have? >> There's four. >> Four stories. Okay. You mentioned that you were familiar with the rooftop. Do you know how to gain access to the rooftop of the Losi building? >> Yes. There's actually an outside stairway stairway right here that comes up. It's going to be just to the south of Losi building. There's a red pathway right directly in the middle of the picture. Off to the south of that on the left side of the picture is an outdoor staircase stairway. >> Is that open to the public? >> It is. >> And um how would someone access the roof from that stairway? >> If they came up, they would put some right here on this pathway that goes between the Loy Center and down towards the computer science building. There's a red pathway. There's actually a little handrail, like a little guardrail, probably about a couple feet high that that that somebody could jump over. Is that area restricted? Is it off limits? >> Yes, it is. There's kind of like a natural barrier with the guardrail. And from there on, there's no path as it's gravel roof, so it's not paved like everything else. >> But someone could hop over that railway. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you, officer. You can take Officer Bagley, I'm now going to refer you to your attention to states exhibit number three. That's going to come up on your monitor as well. Yes, I do see it. >> Okay. And do you recognize that? >> I do. >> And what is that? >> This is a drone picture of uh the campus, more of the courtyard looking eastward. >> Okay. Um I've asked you about several buildings on campus. Um I'm going to ask you about those same buildings, whether they're depicted in this exhibit. Okay. Do you see where the Hall of Flags is located? Yes, I do. It's down towards the bottom. It's a red brick pathway. It would be the hall flags. >> Okay. What about the Fugal building? >> Fugle building is going to be to the right of the picture. It's going to be a white roof building off to the right directly south of the courtyard. >> And the Woodbury business building >> Woodbury is going to be another red path that's going to be just to the east of the Fugal building. It's got a gray roof and some red paths. >> The Sorenson Center. >> Sorenson Center is going to be on the left of the picture. It's going to have a white roof. uh different levels and that would be the Sorenson Center. >> Okay. The Losi Center, where is that located in relationship to the Sorenson Center that you've described >> of the Sorenson Center? It's going to be just directly east of the Saenson Center towards the top of the picture. Uh you can see the two different colors of grave, the gravel that's on the roof. >> Okay. And can you see the courtyard in this in this photograph? >> Yes, you can. >> Okay. Um, is this picture a fair and accurate depiction of this area of Utah Valley University's campus on September 10th, 2025? >> Yes. >> State offers exhibit 3, your honor. >> We renew the standing objection. We also object again that this individual can't identify when the um picture was made or >> Mr. Gander, >> same response, judge. And just just for the record, I was also point the c the court to state v. PCEL, which is a Supreme Court case um here in the state of Utah in 1985, which essentially stands for the proposition that if a competent witness with personal knowledge uh of the facts represented in a photograph can testify that that photograph accurately represents those facts. Um the the exhibit's admissible. He's also spoke about the date being September 10th, 2025. Uh the showing that's required here is essentially a primmaaccious showing. Um we're not required to show proof beyond a reasonable doubt, for example, that it was accurate that day or even a prepoundonderance of the evidence. Uh but we'll submit it on that, judge. >> All right. I'm just taking a brief glance at the case you cited. >> I can give the citation if you're >> if you if you have that, I'd appreciate that. It's 711 Pacific 2 243 The court finds that the witness is uh familiar with the scene, testified that it is a fair and accurate representation of what states exhibit three purports to be and the court finds it necessary foundation has been laid and overrules the objection. States exhibit 3 may be admitted is admitted and may be published. >> State would move to publish states exhibit 3. May I approach the witness, your honor? >> Officer, if you would come down into the well of the court, I'm going to ask you a few questions about this this exhibit three as well. >> Okay. Um, can you point out where the Hall of Flags is located and describe that for the record? >> Uh, the Hall of Flags is going to be down here on the bottom of the picture. It's going to have a red brick pathway with some flowers along the top of it. >> You mentioned that you you were securing an area of that >> Yes. >> that hall that walkway. Where were you where were you stationed? >> I was down here by the end of the flower pots, which is down here on the south side towards the Fugal building on the far right of the picture. >> Okay. Um, in relationship to where you were stationed, where is the uh fugal building then? >> The Fugal building is just to the right of me. So, it would be on the south end of me. >> Okay. And so, it's on the right side of the photograph there. >> Far right side of the photograph. Yes. >> What about the the business building? >> The business building is just going to be in the middle of the picture on the far right. It's going to have some red brick pathways. It's going to be multi-level and that would be the Woodbury building. >> Okay. Um, the Sorenson Center, where is that located on the photograph? >> Sorenson Center is going to be middle to far left of the picture. It's going to have a white roof on top of it, multilevel. >> Okay. And the Losi Center, where is that located? >> Losi center is going to be to the towards the top of the the picture, kind of offcentered a little bit, but it's going to have the four or five floors that are the four floors that are sitting right there. >> Okay. Um, can you describe those stories? What we're looking at? Where do you find one, two, three, four, and and possibly five? >> So, this is ground level where the courtyard is. So, this as you go over in towards the Losi building inside, uh there's an elevator. That'd be ground one, level one. Level two would be the second one where these red um ATVs are sitting on the grass right there in the middle of the picture. If you go up from that, that would be the third level. And your fourth level, which is the actual top level of the building, is that very top one with the windows that you can see. Okay. Is there an atrium on the top of that? >> There is an atrium. It's actually it's got a little sphere on the top of it. It looks like a little square right on top of the Losi building. That would be an atrium. >> Now, you mentioned two shades of gray on the rooftop of the Losi building. >> Yes. >> Can you see that on this exhibit? >> I can. So, where the atrium is is a lighter gray gravel. And on the west side, um, because I'm looking east, on the west side, there's two, uh, ventilations for the Losi building, two vents on top of that. It's in the darker gray. >> Okay. >> You mentioned you're familiar with the rooftop of the Losi Center, correct? >> Uh, when someone is standing on the Losi Center, can they say see down into the courtyard? >> Yes, they can. >> And where is the courtyard located? going to be in the center of the picture with the grass and the atrium style steps. >> Would that be direct would that would be west of the Losi center then? >> Yes, it would be directly west of the Losi center. >> Okay. Now, in a couple of the other exhibits, we saw a tent that was down uh set up in the courtyard. Can you see that tent set up in the courtyard in this photograph? >> Uh you cannot in this in this picture. You can't. It would be where I explained where the hall flags is. It's directly underneath the hall flags like just on the grass right there. >> Okay. Okay. Can someone Is there a clear line of sight between the tent and the top of the Losi center? The rooftop? >> Yes, there is. >> Okay. Is some of it obstructed? >> Yes. >> Obstructed by what? >> Uh the Sorenson building that's right here. This white roof that's going to be this kind of obstructs a little bit of the view of the courtyard. >> So, where would you have to be standing or perhaps lying down on the Losi center to see into the courtyard where that tent was? On the far south side of the Losi building, you could have a line of sight towards the courtyard. >> And that's the top roof. >> The top roof. Yes. >> With a darker shade of gray. You see? I am going to refer the witness now to And officer Bagley, when you see that, Do you recognize what that is, officer? >> I don't have it yet. >> Okay. So, we don't have this in electronic form. >> We do. Okay. Um, well, I'll refer you to the uh the exhibit that's to your left and behind you. Do you see that? >> I do. >> And it's marked as states exhibit 35 with a a yellow sticker. Is that correct? >> Yes, I can see that on top left of the photo. >> Um, well, for the record, um, if we can publish that on the witness's screen. >> Thank you, Mr. Gerander. I was just going to mention that uh we shouldn't display it until it's been admitted in. So, >> do you see states exhibit 35 in your monitor? >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. Can you do you recognize that? >> Yes, I do. >> And what is that? This is an aerial view of the campus and the northeast area just north of the campus neighborhoods of Utah Valley University in Or. and how can you personally tell that this is a a photograph of that of of the campus and the neighborhood to the northeast of campus? I can tell because I recognize all the buildings, the roads that are around it, the streets, the roundabouts, the neighborhood to the north or to the towards the top of the building or picture also. >> Now, we've I've asked you about several buildings and landmarks on campus. Um, are you able to see the courtyard on this exhibit? >> Yes, you are. >> And just for the record, can you describe where this is located on the the exhibit? So right in the center towards the bottom there's a white triangle roof that's white. That would be the Sorson building. It's the patch of grass that's just directly south of towards the bottom of that on the picture. So it's kind of centered but more towards the bottom right in the middle >> on this exhibit. Are you able to see the Fugal building? >> Yes, I am. >> And in relationship to this courtyard, where is that located? >> That's going to be south of the courtyard with the white roof. What about the Woodbury business building? >> Woodbury business building is going to be to the east and it's going to have a red brick path top. >> Okay. Um, can you see the Hall of Flags on this? >> Yes, you can. >> And where is that located in relationship to the courtyard again? >> Uh, it's directly west of the courtyard >> and the Losi center. Can you see the Losi center? >> Yes, you can see the Los. >> Where is that at? is going to be kind of northeast of the courtyard. The two patches of gray that's almost in the center uh of the picture just to the slight right of the center. >> Okay. Um I've asked you previously about the LDS Institute building. Can you see that on this exhibit? >> Yes, you can. >> And where is that located in relationship to the Losi Center? >> It's directly north of the Losi Center. It's got a white roof and it's almost directly in the center of the photo. >> Okay. And is we've talked about a parking structure that's nearby the institute building. Do you see that? >> Yes, it's just to the west or left side of the picture of the institute building. >> Okay. Is this a fair and accurate um depiction of Utah Valley University's campus and the surrounding neighborhood to the north and east on September 10th, 2025? >> Yes. State offers states exhibit 35. >> Your honor, renew the standing objection and object on the grounds that there's no indication on this photograph of when it was taken in terms of relation to the actual incident at issue here. >> Thank you, Miss Nester. Mr. Ginad, >> same response, judge, but I would just add one more case for the court's benefit. Um, this is state v wager or wagger w a geer. This is a Utah Court of Appeals case from 2016. Uh the citation is 372 Pacific 3 91. And the significance of this case, your honor, um at issue there was a photograph of the defendant there who was smoking methamphetamine allegedly in his bathroom. Um the witness that was testifying that laying the foundation at trial um was not present when the photograph was taken um could not tell the date on which it was taken, but he had been in the bathroom before, was familiar with the defendant's bathroom and familiar with the defendant. He testified to that personal knowledge and the court found that was sufficient foundation. So that case in addition to the other case, the PCEL case and my previous arguments and I'll submit it to the court. Miss Nester, anything else you wish to add? >> No, your honor. >> All right. Given the testimony of the witness who's testified, he's familiar with this location. He went in detail describing the various neighborhoods and location. He mentioned the roundabout uh and identified the buildings in states exhibit 35. And uh it was noted that it is a fair and accurate representation of this campus as of September 10th, 2025. The court is going to overrule the objection and states exhibit 35 is admitted into evidence and may be published. >> Thank you, judge. The state moves to publish it and if granted, I would may I approach the exhibit? Officer, I've asked you about a number of the buildings located on campus. So, I'm just going to ask you a couple of questions about those and to help orient the court to what the judge is looking at and then ask you about some of the streets in in the neighborhood. Okay. >> Okay. >> For the court's benefit, can you point out um where the LDS Institute building is? >> Yes, I can. >> And I'm going to approach the witness again if you could describe where it's at on that exhibit 35. >> Okay. Okay. Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you want the LDS institute building? >> Yes, please. >> That is this white roof right here is the institute building. >> Is that in basically the center of the exhibit? >> It's almost exactly in the center of the exhibit. >> Okay. And where is the Losi um center located on that? >> If you were to go down towards the bottom of the photo, there's two different grays of gravel on this roof. This would be the Losi building right here. So below the institute building and to the right slightly >> slightly to the right. >> Can you uh point out for the court's benefit where the courtyard is? >> The courtyard is going to be to the west or left side of the picture. There's some grass in between two buildings that have a white roofs. That would be a grass area right there with some steps. That is going to be the courtyard area and that's going to be down towards the center bottom of the photo. >> So that's to the left and down. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um you mentioned the parking struct. Where's the parking structure uh next to the institute building? >> Institute institute building is right here in the center with the white roof. The parking structure is going to be just to the left of the institute or west side. Uh there's a road in between it called the heat plant road which is the road that goes between those two. >> And can you point out for the court's benefit how one would enter that or exit that parking structure by way of vehicle or walking? By entering, you can enter and exit right here on the on the north side of the of the parking structure. There's an entrance and exit right here. That's into level one >> for a vehicle >> for vehicles. >> And I guess someone could walk in there as well. >> Uh yes, if they were to park into this LDS Institute parking lot over here on the on the north side of that, there's a tunnel that goes underneath the road that still comes out into the parking structure itself. Um and then they can exit out here on the second level onto heat plant road which would be is that road between the LDS Institute building and the parking structure is heat plant. They can exit there and go back towards uh campus drive. So, you could walk out either up here on the northeast side of the parking structure and cross over to the LDS Institute or you can come out here to the southeast side and you can exit there and walk down to the courtyard or behind the LDS Institute building towards the Losi Center. >> Okay, thank you. You mentioned Campus Drive. Where's Campus Drive located on that? >> Campus Drive starts right up here towards the top left of the picture. It's almost like a T and it's the curved road that comes all the way down in front of the institute building and and the parking structure and it goes all the way around campus, comes back down to the bottom of the picture where the roundabout is and that would be Campus Drive. >> Okay. Are you familiar with where 800 South is in Oram? >> Yes. >> Is that depicted on this exhibit? >> It is. >> Where is that at? >> It's at the top of this photo. It's going to be the long straight road. That's right here at the top of the photo. >> Okay. What about um 850 South? Are you familiar with that street? >> I am. 850 South is going to be towards the right of the photo uh top right of it, there's going to be a street that goes east to west. Uh it looks like a horseshoe kind of. It's going to be the road that goes east to west. In the middle of that horseshoe be 850. >> Okay. So 850 is parallel to 800 south. >> Yes. >> Uh and just below on this photograph. >> Yes. >> Okay. Are you familiar with 600 west? >> I am. And where's that street in relationship to 850 south? >> That would be on the far right side of the horseshoe. So towards the right side of the picture and it's going to be the right side of that horseshoe. >> And that runs north and south. >> North and south. >> Okay. What about 720 West? Are you familiar with that street? >> Yes, I am. >> And where's that at? >> That's going to be to the left side of the horseshoe that runs north and south and it comes down towards the bottom. >> Okay. And finally, 925 south. >> 925 southicted >> is going to be on the bottom of the horseshoe that connects those other two wests. >> Okay. So, just in summary, will you describe the horseshoe >> and what streets amount make up that horseshoe? >> So, the horseshoe comes up off of 800 South and directly south of that, you'll have 850 South, which is going to be running east to west. Uh on the left side is 725 west of the horseshoe and it comes down into 925 south which wraps back around to 600 west on the far right side of the horseshoe on the right side of the picture. >> Okay. Thank you officer. You can be seated. Okay. I'm going to take you back to September 10th, 2025. You mentioned you were on campus. You had a particular assignment. >> Yes, >> Mr. Grander. I'm sorry. Let's We're just going to pull down the exhibits. >> Okay. >> Thank you. You may continue. >> Would you like me to take this exhibit down, Judge? >> Are we Are you referring to it in your line of questioning right now? >> Um, not right now. I'm not. So you were you were securing the the Hall of Flags walkway, correct? >> Yes. >> On the south end. >> Yes. >> Um what was happening that morning, that day on at campus at UVU? I I came in to do a shift for a special event that where we had a guest speaker come in and was going to talk to the students and people around the neighborhood. >> Do you know who the guest speaker was? >> I do. >> And who was that? >> It was Charlie Kirk. >> Did you see Mr. Kirk that day? >> I did. >> When did you first see him? >> Uh when he arrived on campus uh just behind the west side of uh the Hall of Flags, I saw him pull up. And can someone access the courtyard in that through that area? >> Yes, they can. >> How so? >> Uh where he pulled up underneath the Hall of Flags is a opening to where you could drive a car underneath. Uh so there's access right there. You could walk or drive underneath the Hall of Flags. >> And you saw him arrive? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um can describe what what you were what you were seeing? What did you observe? Um, on that day, I uh observed Charlie going back doing some meet and greet with some people, getting some photos taken. Uh, he then came underneath the Hall of Flags and went to his tent and he was there as answering questions and talking to individuals that would ask him questions. >> The tent you're referring to, is that the tent that we see when it was set up in the courtyard? >> Yeah, that white square tent, >> the white top. >> Yes, he was under that. Fast forward to about about 12:20 or so. So, a little bit after noon, the noon hour. What happened? What did you see? And what did you hear? >> I heard an individual talking to Charlie and I happened to kind of glance over the edge of the railing about that time. Um, I could see the right side of Charlie's shoulder. So, not his whole body because I had the he was underneath the tent. So, I could only see probably the right side of his body. Um, he was answering a question. kid asked him a question and then I heard a shot fired. >> Do you know what time that was? >> Uh, yes. >> What time was that? >> 12:23. >> What did you see >> at that moment? I saw him lean to the left. So I >> When you say him, you >> Charlie. >> Charlie. So I saw him go to the left because I could no longer see the right side of his body. So he went further underneath the tent to the north side of the tent. So left. >> Okay. Um can you describe the reaction of others that were there? >> Uh yeah, so then um everybody started getting up and starting to run uh in more of a chaos kind of situation. >> Before you continue, can you describe a little bit? So you mentioned Mr. Kirk was answering questions, talking to individuals. >> Yes. >> Were there others present? >> Yes. >> Um any idea about approximately how many? >> How would you describe it in your terms? In my terms, I'd say when I was up there looking down, I'd say there's several thousand people because you had it on the grass that was jam-packed in the amphitheater sitting on the grass. You had people standing on the back up along the cement. You had people that were on the second level, the Saenson, and over by the Woodbury building. There's another level there where a lot of people were standing and watching. >> So, it was it was pretty packed. Several thousand people. >> You mentioned So, you mentioned you heard something. What did you hear again? >> I heard a gunshot. >> Okay. And can you describe the re you described Mr. Kirk's reaction? Was that simultaneous to hearing the the gunshot? >> Yes, it was. >> When he fell to the left? >> Yes. >> Did you see the reaction from the crowd? >> Yes. >> What was that? >> Everybody kind of got up. They all said a lot of people were screaming, standing up, and starting to run in all different directions away from the center of the tent. >> Okay. You're a police officer helping to secure the area, correct? >> Yes. >> What did you do? Um, at that moment I recognized it as gunfire. I uh I left my post which was right there on the south end of the hall flags. I went I proceeded to between right where the fugal and the hall flags meet. There's some outside stairs that I was starting to run down. As I was trying to get down to the bottom of the stairs, people are running up. People are laying down on the steps. I'm trying to jump over people to get to the bottom of the stairs so I can help uh stop an individual that's probably shooting. >> Um, what happened next? Um, by the time I got to the bottom of the stairs, we I was informed on the radio that we had a shooter in custody. So, I thought at that moment I was like, "Oh, that was kind of fast." Obviously, it was close range probably because we had an individual in custody. Another officer came on, said we had an individual in custody. So, I decided to since this since the threat is gone now, I can assess for anybody that's injured and started looking for any medical needs that that's needed at that moment. Um, I started canvasing the area. Um, as I canvased the area, I was looking for anybody that was injured. I saw a kid on the ground that was on the about the second or third tier of the in the grass next to a wheelchair and he was almost convulsing. I thought he'd maybe been shot. Uh, talked to the dad as I was running over there. He said that he was just having a seizure that he was fine. He was not injured. So then at that moment I I I observed that there was no other injuries that I could see at that moment. >> Okay. Did Did was your attention drawn to anything else at that time? >> Yeah. So after we got some people kind of cleared away a little bit, I thought I needed to start preserving the scene because we had a crime scene and with some of my experience and training and to that effect of I decided now we need to contain the scene and help preserve as much evidence as we can. So I started pushing people off the grass um out of the courtyard area because I knew that's where the crime scene was. Um soon as we started pushing those guys out, I uh my my chief, Chief Long, that was right next to me. I looked down and saw an empty pistol holder that was sitting just on top of the grass. And at that moment, things had died down just a split second. I realized that the shot I heard was more of a rifle shot and not a pistol shot. >> And um what causes you to say that? >> Uh just from being around firearms through all my trainings, um the difference is, you know, a handgun is more of a short bang pop sound. Uh, with a rifle you have a more of a longer violent bang or crackle sound. It's more of a violent kind of sound. It's longer. So, >> that's why I recognized it. >> Okay. Is a is a rifle sound louder typically? Yes. >> Okay. >> Um, going back to when you heard this this gunshot, could you tell uh where where it came from? >> Direction? Yes, I knew it came to the from the east of me. >> From the east of you. Okay. >> So, you see this this realization comes to your mind. What did you do next? >> Um, at that moment when I saw the the holster, the empty holster, I turned to my chief and I said, "That was that was a rifle shot." He said, "I agree." And I looked up. At that moment, uh, right in the line of sight, I could see the Losi building had a direct line of sight. So, I proceeded to go look at that and see what was going on up there. >> Okay. Can you just briefly describe your route to the Losi center? >> So from the courtyard you can go into the Sorenson Center and like I said there earlier there was on level one there's some elevators or there stairs. I ran up four flights of stairs. Uh got to the fourth level of the Losi building and proceeded to the south of the Losi building. There's some stairs which is at uh breezeway between the computer science building and the Losi building. There's some stairs that go up to the top of that and so I went to the top of that. >> Is that the stairway that you previously described? >> Yes, on the outside of the Losi building just >> Okay. That it's and it's a public stairway. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um did you make it to the rooftop? >> I did. >> Do you know about what time you got there? >> Um I pro I got there at 12:44. >> Okay. Um what did you do when you got on top? Uh when I got on top, I hopped over the guardrail. Um I noticed that there was a an object which was sitting right about 10 or 15 ft in from the other side of the guardrail in the gravel. That looked out of place to me. >> And in relationship to where you hopped over the guard row, what direction was that object? >> Uh to the west of the guardrail. >> Okay. And um did you recognize the object? >> I did. >> And what was it? >> It was a red and black screwdriver. Okay. Um, did you touch that object? >> I did not. >> Okay. I am going to refer the witness on your screen, Officer Bagley, to states exhibit 3.1. >> Yes, I see it. >> Do you recognize what that is? >> I do. And what is that? >> That's a picture of the screwdriver that I saw that day on top of the rooftop of the Losi building. >> Okay. >> And that's how it appeared on the roof that day? >> Yes. >> Is that a fair and accurate portrayal of the screwdriver you observed and found that day? >> Yes. >> You're on the state offers states exhibit 3.1. Miss Nester, your >> honor, we renew, excuse me, we renew our standing objection and object on the grounds that there's no foundation laid as to when the photo was taken or by whom. Thank you. >> Same response, judge. My previous arguments. >> And did you state that this was a fair and accurate representation as of September 10th, 2020? >> I had said that day. I'll ask it again. >> All right. to the officer. Officer Bagley, um you were you saw this screwdriver you're describing on September 10th, 2025. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> Is states exhibit 3.1 a fair and accurate uh depiction of that screwdriver that day, September 10th, 2025? >> Yes. >> All right. >> State moves to admit. I will go ahead and admit states exhibit 3.1 is admitted based off of the firsthand knowledge of this uh what this image purports to be and it is a fair and accurate representation as uh this item on that date of September 10th 2025 and this exhibit may be published. Your honor, before we continue to publish it and ask a few more questions, right now might be a good time to take a break. >> All right, if that's okay at the court. >> All right, let's come back at it's 10:43. Let's go ahead and come back. Well, 10:44. Let's come back at 11:00 and then we'll resume direct examination. Court is in a brief recess. All right. Awesome. Thanks, You want to test it from here? Yes. Yeah, that's Okay. Yeah. It's not Court is back in session. Before we get started, I I want to clarify on the record that uh pursuant to the Utah Constitution, section one, I'm sorry, article one, section 28, uh where victims and victims representatives are entitled to be treated with uh dignity and respect that if they choose to leave the courtroom, they're they can come back uh whenever they wish. They're not prohibited to coming back solely at the break. So I just wanted to clarify that uh in case there was any question about that. In addition, I want to talk about the exhibits uh as it relates to their admission and and publica publication of the exhibit. So whenever there is an objection to an exhibit, uh I would ask that the attorneys are clear specifically what they're objecting to. Uh there's there's basically three levels uh of objections that could be objected to. First, the admittance of the exhibit itself. Second is the publication of the exhibit to the gallery. And third is the uh the publication which uh is electronically captured by the media. So council, I'll leave it to you um in regards to what you object to or what you what you wish to respond to. If no objection uh to the publication media capture of the exhibit is specifically raised, the court will presume there's no objection. So being that the uh monitor was introduced today by the court, I wanted to offer that guidance to the parties in regards to your uh objections. With that, let's go ahead and return to the witnesses. I do note for the record that the council is present uh and all the parties are present and let's go ahead and proceed. >> Thank you, your honor. Uh, we left officer Baggley with just having admitted states exhibit 3.1. I believe the court also granted our uh motion to publish 3.1. So, we would move we would ask the court to publish that to the gallery 3.1. >> Any to the miss neester? Any thoughts? >> All right, we'll go ahead and publish Looks like it's just taking a second to Let's go ahead and unplug and replplug in the monitor to see if that brings it back to life All right. Looks like it's Yes. All right, Mr. Gander. >> Thank you, Judge. Officer Baggley, so you testified that this is the screwdriver as you saw it on September 10th, 2025, correct? >> Yes. Um, I'm going to uh And this was on top of which roof? >> The LC building. >> And in relationship to the entrance, the the stairway and when you hopped over the rail to get there, >> where was it located? >> About 10 or 15 feet in. >> Okay. If I could um your honor, bring up states exhibit number two that was previously admitted. I would like to have um officer Baggley come down from the witness stand and point on that exhibit where approximately where this screwdriver was located and describe it for the record. >> All right, you may step down and if you have a microphone for him as well. >> I think there was one up there. Oh, here So, if you can describe where you where you saw that screwdriver point to that. >> Yeah. So, this is the Losi building right here with the light gray. Here's the guardrail in the center of the picture with the red brick just over that about 10 15 feet in about right there. >> About right there. Okay. Now, on this exhibit, exhibit 3.1, there's an evidence tag, yellow number five. Was that present when you found the screwdriver? >> No. >> Okay. So that was left there by an evidence tech. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. You can take your seat again. Officer, I'm going to uh direct your attention to your monitor again and have And if you'll let me know when you see that. >> Okay, I see it. >> Okay. And can you tell us what that is? >> Uh, yes. That's a picture of the top of the Losi building looking west. >> Okay. And how do you know that that is in fact the top of Losi center looking west? >> I can see the landmarks of several buildings that the Fugal buildings on the top left of it. You've got on the right is a white roof which is the Sorson building on the right side of the picture. Uh this is also the gravel area on top of the Losi building. >> Okay. Um can you see the courtyard from this exhibit? >> Yes, a little bit. >> Um what about the tent that was set up that Mr. Kirk was underneath? >> Yes. >> Okay. What about the Hall of Flags? >> Yes. >> Um did you mention that this was facing west? What what direction are we looking? >> We're looking west towards Utah Lake. >> Okay, officer. Is this a fair and accurate um depiction of what you observed on September 10th, 2025 on top of the Losi building? >> Yes. >> State offers states exhibit 3.2. Judge >> Miss Nester, >> your honor, I think that we renew our standing objection. Um, there is an evidence tag here which begs the question that it's not a fair and accurate representation of how he saw it. Um, and we also don't have any indication about when this picture was taken or by whom. So, we object to its admission. >> I see. Thank you, Mr. Grander. >> Officer, one one more question, Judge. Officer Baggley, apart from the evidence tag, do you see an evidence tag on that photograph? >> Yes, I do. Was that present when you were on top of the Losi center and has observed this? >> That was not. >> Okay. Otherwise, is it fair and accurate? >> Yes. >> State moves to admit. >> Anything further? >> No, your honor. >> All right. Thank you. Given that follow-up question, noting that the evidence tag, it appears to be number two on states exhibit 3.2 2 was not present, but otherwise it is a fair and accurate representation as stated by the witness uh to uh stage exhibit 3.2. The court will uh admit it into evidence and it may be published at the discretion of or the request of councel. Your state would move to publish it. Officer Bagley, will you describe um what it is that we're looking at here? >> Uh yes. On on the top of the photo, uh you got the mountain range on the back. It's going to be looking west. You also have Utah Lake, which is towards the top of it. As you come down towards the center on the top, you've got a pond, which is the ponds over at Utah Valley University. I've come down from that from where the water meets that red brricked part more towards the center is the Hall of Flags and just below that where you can see the grass and the white tent is where Charlie Kirk was sitting looking west and we're on top of the Losi building. >> And is this is this depicting a particular corner of the Losi rooftop? >> Yes, it is. >> And this is the top rooftop. >> Yes. >> Um is it the same level where we observed the atrium that's to the north? Uh the atrium's up just a little bit higher. So this is level at the top of level four. >> Level four. Okay. And uh what what area of the rooftop are we looking at here? >> Uh you're looking >> as far as the gravel >> southwest side of the Losi building. >> Southwest side. Okay. Um is there a line of sight down into the courtyard? >> Yes, there is >> in that area. Okay. What else do you observe on this um exhibit that's significant to you, officer? Uh there was some disturbance in the gravel right where and around the area where the in the area where the yellow marker is is there was some disturbance that caught my eye there. >> Okay. And um does this photograph do it justice? >> No. >> And how so? >> Uh you can't really see the impression I saw the time of when I was up there the on that day. I saw a distinct impression in the gravel and this does not show that. >> Okay. So, you could see more with the naked eye. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um I'm going to refer the witness to states exhibit and let me know when you can see that. >> Okay, I can see it. And do you recognize that exhibit? >> I do. >> And what is that? >> This is a nighttime view of that same photo uh that was just last uh same view looking west and I can see the disturbance in the gravel. >> And what tells you that this is uh the same photograph as the last one as exhibit 3.2? >> You can see the hall flags. That's direct almost the top of the photo. In the middle you got the hall flags. You can see the tent and the grass area, the direct line of sight with the Sorson building and I'm on top of the gravel of the Losi building southwest side. >> Is there also an LDS temple that's depicted in that photograph? >> There is. It's going to be on the top left of the photo. It's lit up. >> Okay. Um, do you know who took this photo? >> I do. >> And who took this photo? >> Melissa Richards. >> And um, who is Melissa Richards? Uh she's the lead senior uh forensic for forensic for the state of Utah. >> Okay. >> Examiner. >> And um how do you know that she took this photograph? >> I I spoke to her. >> Okay. Um >> let's renew the objection to hearsay. That's an outstanding objection. >> Thank you. Mr. Grander, do you want to respond to the objection about hearsay? >> Um yes, judge. Under rule 1102, hearsay is admissible to establish the foundation or for or the authenticity of any exhibit that's found in 1102 subb sub3. Um I would also point out for the court that under rule 1101 which is the applicability of the rules um in uh subsection C1 uh the determination of questions of fact preliminary to ad admissibility of evidence when it's determined under rule 104 which are preliminary questions um the the rules of evidence do not apply. Uh 104 speaks directly to providing laying foundation for an exhibit. So even at trial, hearsay is admissible to establish the foundation of an exhibit. I would also just point the court um to state v. Griffin. This is a 2016 Utah Supreme Court case. Um the citation is 384 Pacific 31 186 which stands for hearsay evidence is admissible to establish the foundation of an exhibit even at trial. And we're at a preliminary hearing today, judge. >> All right. Anything further, Miss Nester, before I issue a ruling? >> No, your honor. >> All right. I'm going to overrule the uh the objection to hearsay. I note that the standing objection by defense. I also note rule 1102. And I also look to article 1, section 12 of the Utah Constitution, which states, "Nothing in this constitution shall preclude the use of reliable hearsay evidence as defined by statute or rule in whole or in part at any preliminary examination to determine probable cause or at any pre-trial proceeding with respect to release of defendant if appropriate discovery is allowed as defined by statute or rule. For those reasons, uh, we overrule the objection and as it relates to reliable hearsay in this instance, uh, you may proceed. Officer Bagley, did you ask Miss Richards if this was a fair and accurate depiction of this scene on the Losi building on the night of September 10th, 2025? >> Yes. >> And what did she tell you? >> She said it was. >> Okay. Your state offers states exhibit four. Miss Nester >> just object to relying on what Ms. Richards told him in terms of creating the foundation and refer back to our standing objection. >> The state will submit it. >> All right. Well, as I look at states exhibit 4 and again I'm just looking at it before me. I I it said it was a fair and accurate representation. Um there's there's a notation I mean in previous exhibits there's a marker exhibit marker and I see two but it also appears to be other artifacts on this image that I haven't heard uh any testimony about and and so I will follow up judge. >> All right officer Bagley, do you see an evidence tag in that exhibit? >> Yes, I do a number two. >> A number two and that's yellow and black. >> Yes. >> Do you see other um evidence markers that are red in color? Uh yes, they are to me they're orange but they're triangular shaped. >> Okay. Um were those markers the evidence tag two as well as the orange or red markers present when you u observed that scene that day? >> No. >> Okay. Um were they present however when Ms. Richards took this photograph? >> Yes. >> And she indicated to you that that is a fair and accurate representation of what she observed that night? >> Yes. state would move to admit exhibit four judge. >> Miss Netor, >> objections, your honor. >> Thank you, Miss Nester. Going to go ahead and overrule the objection. Uh noting that the marker, evidence marker, as well as the red or orange markers, I can't tell which color it is, uh was not present originally. With those uh included information, states exhibit 4 is admitted into evidence and may be published Thank you. The state would move to publish that. And I would ask for the witness to come down to uh explain the exhibit. >> All right. Officer, if you'd like to step down, use the microphone. And as previously noted, uh describe when you're describing something on the image, where it is located on the image So officer, will you describe for the court what it is that you're looking at? Uh >> so what I'm looking at is I'm on top of the Losi building which is where the gravel is on towards the bottom center. I'm looking west uh towards the tent which is in the upper center that you got a white tent. You can see the grass down there in the amphitheater. You got the Hall of Flags that's more towards the top center and behind that you've got I-15. But what I'm looking at is in the disturbance of the gravel is what I saw that day. >> Okay. And what can you describe for the record that disturbance >> to me when I when I got up there and I could see this disturbance of gravel? Um to me it looks like a a sniper pad, a person that has been laying in a prone position and you've got markings of elbows, knees, and feet to where somebody was in the line of sight of where Charlie's tent was. >> Thank you. And if we could again take the uh if we could publish states exhibit >> You recognize that right officer? >> Yes, I do. >> Where on the Losi rooftop did you observe this disturbance in the gravel? If you go to the center of the picture, if you go to the center of the picture in the darker gray part of it, um on the left side, so the south side of the Losi building, it would be right in the line of sight of the Charlie Kirk tent that's straight in front of it. >> Okay. >> The southwest side of the roof. And finally, I would direct the witness's attention to states exhibit >> Let me know when that's there. >> It is. >> Is it is it is there? >> Do you recognize that exhibit? >> I do. >> And what is that? This is going to be a picture of the side profile of that last photo we looked at with some red or orange markers and a number two with also a tape that's there >> on top of the Losi building. >> What was that tape that you said? >> Uh there's a measuring tape it looks like. >> Okay. Um are you able to tell which direction the photograph is the photographer was facing? >> Yes. >> And what direction is that? >> It's facing south. Um, this is a nighttime photograph, correct? >> Yes. >> Um, do you know who took this picture? >> I do. >> And who took the picture? >> It was Moses Richards. >> The same individual that you spoke about before? >> Yes. >> Um, did you ask her whether this is a fair and accurate depiction of what she observed that night? >> Yes. >> What did she say? >> She said it was. with respect to what you observed that day. Um, apart from the evidence tag, the the yellow tag as well as the orange or red markers, is this a fair and accurate depiction of what you observed? >> Yes. >> What's different about what you observed as far as what's on the photograph, the previous exhibit compared to this? >> Uh, you can see more of the the length of an individual. So you can see that more there's two elbows, two knee areas, plus also up towards the far right of the photo is also a marker where like somebody laid a gun down. >> Okay. >> It's like a prone position. >> Your pursuant to rule 1102 as well as other authority that's been cited today, the state offers states exhibit 5 into evidence. >> Your honor, we renew all the same objections we made to exhibit four. >> Thank you. Given the foundation that has been laid and that the witness has testified that this is a fair and accurate representation of the scene, noting uh the tape as well as the markers in that uh states exhibit 5 is admitted into evidence and may be published. >> State state moves to publish exhibit five, judge. before turning to what you did next on that day, taking you to se back to the daytime of September 10th, 2025, um did you secure the rooftop of the Losi building that day? >> Yes, I did. >> And how did you do that? I put yellow police uh crime scene tape around the portion where so nobody else would disturb that area. >> And when you say that area, what areas are you talking about? >> I'm talking about the roof where it was the southwest side of the roof where I found the disturbed gravel where it looked like somebody had been proned out in the line of sight of the tent. Um so right there, >> did you secure the area um as far as any any of the entrance area up onto the rooftop with with police tape? >> Yes. So then where that natural guardrail is, that was the other barrier where they were advised not to go any any further from there other than police officers. >> Okay. Um if we could go back to states if we were to zoom in on this uh photograph, are you able to see the police tape that you put up on the rooftop of the Losi Center officer? >> Yes, you would be able to. officer, I'm going to have you come down and describe for the court where you put that police tape up to secure that So, this is the top of the Losi building. You got your two different grays. Uh the southwest is towards the top center of the picture. Um you can see some yellow tape that spans from over here on the far right side of the picture by these black uh pipes goes around a silver vent, comes back down around to the corner of that silver to keep everybody out of that area where that prone position was at. >> Okay. On that photograph, are you able to to see where you put the tape up as far as the the access way to that roof near the stairway? >> So, it it was right here actually this natural barrier where you have to climb over the guardrail. So, this is the other barrier that I had set up. >> And you put police tape on that? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, did you eventually leave that area? >> I did. >> Do you recall about what time you left that area? >> Oh, I have it in my notes. Um, it would be when I left that area, it was almost 1:00, about 10:03, 101. >> Okay. Before leaving, did you uh leave the scene with anyone? >> I did not leave the scene. Oh, did I leave the scene to somebody? Yes. >> Just to someone else? >> Yes. >> And who was that? >> Uh, it was a county deputy, a female. Did you provide instructions to her? >> I did. >> And what were those instructions? >> I advised her not to let anybody inside the crime scene. >> Okay. >> Without without being a police officer or an investigator. >> Okay. Officer, upon seeing this disturbance in the gravel, you've described what it looked like to you. >> Someone lying down in a prone position, correct? >> Yes. >> What did you do next? >> Um, so when I got to the top of the Losi building during that day, I noticed the screwdriver kept going to the edge, found that prone position. At that moment, I realized because it was direct line of sight plus the disturbance in the gravel or I could see somebody laid down in a prone position or a sniper position and um asked dispatch to get on the vid to then I realized that we probably didn't have our shooter in custody from that moment. Um I asked dispatch to get on the camera system and to see if anybody was on top of the Losi building during the time of the incident. >> Um were you advised of anything? >> I was. dispatch came back and advised me that there was a male individual on top of the roof that was there at the time of the shooting. >> Did they describe what his movements were? >> They did. They stated that he ran to the edge, dropped down, crawled, uh got in a prone position. Um >> I'm going to stop you right there. Ran to the edge. What direction and what edge? >> Uh ran running west and southwest of the Losi building. So ran towards the tent where Charlie Kirk was so they could get a line of sight. Um and then the individual stood up after the shooting and ran northeast on the top of the Losi building. >> Okay. Um you mentioned that this individual on the the video dropped off >> off the edge. Did you did you get mentioned that what happened? What what else was described to you? >> Um then well at that moment so I knew that there was possibly a shooter on on the run. Your honor, can we just have a continuing objection to all of the hearsay that's being testified to here? >> And judge, my response to that was I'm not actually offering this for the truth of the matter asserted at this point. Um, simply for the effect on the hearer. So, I'm not offering what's been described in the video as substantive evidence. >> M. Nester, as with that clarification, >> I'll just stand on the objection. I don't I don't think I mean he's clearly offering it for the truth because he's asking him to describe the route of the individual and it's based on what other people told him. So if he wants to circle back to it after he's put the video in. I mean we could do that but right now I still think it's an appropriate hearsay. Your honor. >> All right. Anything further? Mr. >> I'll submit it to the court. >> All right. So as the magistrate as this is not to a jury it's to myself as a magistrate. I am not accepting that statement for the truth of the matter asserted simply for uh what has been stated. So uh I'm I'm specifically making that finding as I'm receiving this evidence and I'm not accepting it for the truth of matter asserted only as represented by Mr. Grunander. And with that the objection is overruled. Mr. Grander, you may proceed. >> Thank you judge. Um, so you mentioned um you were provided with information that an individual was running north on the Losi rooftop, correct? >> Yes. >> What else was described to you? >> Um, at that moment I actually there I knew I had responding units coming into the the scene. I advised other officers that I needed the Losi building secured, searched because I didn't know exactly what way that other than he ran north. Uh that moment I went down to the police department which is just down the stairwell and looked at the video myself. And >> where where is the police department located? >> It's in the Gunther trade building just directly to the south of the Losi building. >> Okay. >> So where I describe those outside stairs, the building to the left of that or south would be the Gunther Trade building. >> Okay. What on what level is the police department? >> Uh it's level three. >> Level three. Okay. Upon arriving at the police department, what did you do next then? I then look at the footage to verify for myself exactly what expired on that moment where I could see an individual run to the edge, get up and then run off and then drop off the northeast side of the building of the Losi building. >> Okay. Having uh viewed that, what did you do next? >> Uh at that moment, I realized I had more more crime uh a bigger crime scene that I needed to contain and preserve for evidence. Uh, at that moment I went and grabbed some more crime scene tape and I responded to the northeast side of the building and secured an area where I saw impressions of the shoe print inside the grass and also up above on that northeast side of the building. I could see on the cement where some had scuffed there and then dropped down to the shoe imprint and then finish going northeast. >> Okay. Um, if I can take the witness back >> Uh, you mentioned seeing an individual drop down. Could you come down and point that area out to the court? >> Yes. Okay, this is the Losi building again on the top right center of the photo. Uh southwest side is where the individual was laying down prone in the line of sight. Came behind the aquarium or >> atrium >> atrium came behind that on the west side of it. came up to the north side of the Losi building on the east on this white square piece on the far right of the picture. Um, and then he dropped off on the east side of the Losi building into the grass down here below. >> So, the northeast corner. >> Yes, northeast corner. >> You mentioned you observed something on the grass. >> I did. I saw a shoe imprint that was embedded pretty deep right there next to where he dropped off. >> And this is all footage that you personally observed >> on the surveillance video. >> Yes. >> Okay. When you got to the scene, describe in as best detail as you can what you saw on the grass then. >> So when I got to the scene, I could see that there was a shoe imprint there. When I looked up onto the cement from the roof, I could see some scratching or rub marks from the top of this of the roof that was not there. I could see that looked abnormal. Uh, I then decided to put crime scene tape around the whole area in case there was more evidence that needed to be preserved. >> On that, uh, exhibit number two, do you see where you place the crime scene tape? >> Yes, I do. >> And where is that? Can you describe that to the court? >> It's going to be on the far right in the center of the picture. Uh, you can see the yellow tape. I came around trees, came up further out of pictures, some more trees. that came down all the way down to the back side of the LDS Institute building where there's a sidewalk to block everybody out of coming up that way. >> Okay. Did you at one point leave the scene? >> I did. >> Um, did you release the scene to anyone? >> Yes, I did. >> And who was that? >> Uh, there was two PAC police officers that were standing there. >> Okay. Were they in uniform? >> They were. >> Did you provide them with any instructions? >> I advised them not to let anybody inside the crime scene other than law enforcement or investigators. >> Okay. You can take your seat again, officer Bagley. >> You've talked about the disturbance in the gravel that was observed on the LOC building. >> Yes. >> Did you um walk through those that that gra that disturbance in the gravel? >> I did not. >> Did you otherwise touch it in any way? No. >> Um, with respect to the uh shoe print that you observed on the grass on the northeast lawn area below the Aloi building, did you walk through that? >> I did not. >> Did you otherwise disturb that? >> No. >> Officer Bagley, what did you do next? Uh from that moment I then released the scene. I went down to the fugal building and knew that where the instant command center was at so I could relay information that I'd found to responding >> If I have just a moment, judge, state will pass the witness judge. All >> rights. >> Miss Nester, before you begin, uh, what time would you like to break for lunch? We're I don't want to interrupt a line of questioning and so I just want to make sure that we're just taking a look at the clock and when you feel is a good time to break roughly in that 12 1210 range. >> I will aim for that, your honor. That shouldn't be a problem. >> Okay. Thank you. You may proceed. >> May I please the court? >> Yes. >> Good afternoon or morning still. >> Morning, >> Officer Bagley. My name is Kathy Nester. I'm one of the attorneys representing Mr. Robinson today and I do have some questions for you. >> Okay. So, you mentioned that you checked in around 11:00 a.m. on the day of the shooting. Is that right? >> Yes. >> Um, did you know in advance there was going to be this event on campus? >> I did. I signed up for an overtime shift. So, yes. >> You >> for the special event, I signed up for the overtime shift. >> Got it. And so, did you attend any type of debrief or briefing or meeting to prepare for the security of this event? I did not because that morning when I got there, we had individuals on top of the the Hall of Flags. So when I walked in, I just checked on was going to get my uniform on. Uh the chief Long got a text or an email or phone call stating that there's people on top of the hall flags throwing stuff down to the tent. Therefore, he sent the two officers that were on duty down to secure the area. I got dressed and then came back and then went to the Hall of F. So, you never attended any kind of I'll just use the word debrief or meeting to talk about what the officers on scene were going to do that day to keep everybody safe? >> Uh, no, not that morning. >> Do you know if there was such a meeting? >> I don't know because when I got there it was starting to people were throwing stuff down on the tent. >> And do you know how many uh UVU officers you guys employ normally? >> Employ was 15. And do you know how many were assigned to cover that event that day? >> Uh that were assigned to cover it. There was six of us that were there was patrol one and then five others >> that were there with the chief. >> Did you all have an idea there were going to be thousands and thousands of people there? Was that a surprise to you? >> Uh had a had an idea >> and you only had five officers. >> Six. Yes. >> Six. I'm sorry. I'm counting you. I was thinking >> um and of those six officers were are you all armed? Do you carry weapons? >> Yes. >> What type of weapons do you carry? >> Glock pistols. >> Okay. And was there any use on campus of I think they're called magnetometers, but um the machines you walk through at TSA on the airport where it checks to see if you're carrying any anything metal. What we all had to go through to get in the courtroom. Were there any machines like that set up or being used on campus that day? >> No. And as far as you know, were there any drones that were flying above campus that day? >> Not that I know of. >> And did anyone ever talk to you about covering anything near or on top of or in the low sea building? Were you ever signed that area before the shooting? >> No. >> Do you know who was? >> I don't. And when you got up to the roof that afternoon, was anybody around? That was law enforcement. >> No. >> Nobody on the roof? >> No. >> Nobody on the stairway? >> Nope. >> Nobody on the walkway? >> Nope. >> Okay. And in the state of Utah, are is a campus a gun-free zone? Are students allowed to have guns on campus? It's an >> And did you see anybody that was armed that day other than law enforcement? >> Were you aware of whether Mr. Kirk had his own security team present there with him? >> Yes. Did you communicate with any of those people? >> I saw one individual that was on top of the hall flags right next to me. Yes. >> Okay. And that was before the shooting. >> Yes. And then I saw several down in the crowds and down by him. Yes. >> And were you aware of whether that person was armed either? >> I was aware he was armed. >> Okay. Was there any other law enforcement agency besides Mr. Kirk's private security team and your six officers, including you, um, that were covering that event that day. In other words, did you have any Provo police or Oram police or anyone that you knew of or federal agencies? >> I don't know. >> You never saw any that day? >> No, not until the response came in. >> And you did mention, I think I heard you just a few minutes ago testify, you turned over the scene on the roof to a woman who was a deputy sheriff, right? >> Yes. and that you turned over the scene where the individual dropped off to I believe you said um was it or police? >> Pac >> PAC police. Thank you. Those people weren't there till after the shooting, right? They were part of just a response of everybody in the area. >> Correct. >> Okay. Did you receive any type of briefing materials, written materials prior to the event that talked about who would be covering what or anything like that? >> Uh, no, not that morning. Like I said, it started getting hectic. So, we were trying to get down there, secure the area, and push people away from the top of the tent. >> Now, when this event was over, um, you prepared a report. Is that right? >> I did. And in the report, it covers a lot of what you testified to with Mr. Grander, doesn't it? >> Yes. >> And I think you said you attended what, 600 hours of post training. >> It's around 600 hours. Yes. >> And I'm sure somewhere in that training, you were taught the importance of your police report. >> Yes. >> And how it will be relied on years later to recreate events like it's being done done right now. >> And so, you know, it's really important to be as accurate as possible in your report. >> Yep. Um, can we put up Bagley one? >> Can we switch it over to the defense >> All right. Do you see that report in front of you? >> I do. >> And is that the report that you prepared or did you prepare this report? >> Uh I didn't I did a supplement on it but I didn't prepare the report. So like because the incident was a big agency assist. So obviously it says it has all the responding officers to that effect. >> Oh, we need to go to the page. Thank you for pointing that out. Can we please All right. Now, let me ask the question again. Sorry, you just had the cover sheet up. Is that your report? >> Yes, this is >> right. And did you prepare that? >> I did. >> When did you prepare this report? >> Uh, it looks like it was done the next day. Either that day or the next day because I wanted to make sure that I had it done. Everything was fresh on my mind. >> And do you have a copy of it in front of you? >> I do, as a matter of fact. >> May I just step in and just make sure that it's the same one? May I approach? Your honor, >> When you this is we got to ask this now. Did you use AI to help you prepare your report? >> I did not. >> Okay, good. Um, when you prepared your report, you you reference when you first heard the shot, don't you? >> Yes. And what is the time that you say that you heard the shot? Uh >> 12:23. >> Right. And when you wrote that report, you did not state in your report the direction you heard that shot come from, did you? >> Uh no, apparently not. >> And take your time and look at the whole report and see if there's anywhere in there where you ever mentioned that it I don't see his uh direction. >> Okay. And you also, I believe in your report, um you also don't state whether or not um you don't mention anything about thinking it came from the Losi building or anything like that, right? uh later on when I recognized where the when I saw the empty holsters when I I think I actually said that in there where I see the empty holster that I realized the line of sight. >> Okay. So, let's talk about that holster for a minute. Um so, you heard the shot and did you only heard one shot, correct? >> Yes. >> And then you came down from the walkway above the um tent, right? >> Yes. And you came down to really the grassy area that we've all been looking at, the courtyard. >> Yes. >> And there was kind of chaos, people running around. >> Yep. >> Yes. And um while you were down there, you saw what you said was an empty holster. >> Yeah. As I was clearing people out and making sure that the evidence was preserved, uh about towards the top, after a little bit, I saw an empty holster sitting there. >> And when you say towards the top, can you be specific and tell us where you were >> there? So on the south side in the courtyard there's some tears of seating where the grass is different levels and was towards the top maybe just right before the cement is where everybody's standing. So there's different levels is towards the top on the grass. >> And when you saw the holster, can you describe to me what it looked like? >> Uh an empty concealed holster >> for what type of weap. >> Okay. And did it have any markings on it? >> I didn't even No, not that I noticed. And what happened to that holster? >> I have no idea. >> Did you ever take custody of it? >> Nope. >> Did you ever tell anyone else to take custody of it? >> Nope. >> You just left it on the grass? >> Was it ever fingerprinted to your knowledge? >> I have no idea. >> Okay. At some point, um, there were drones in the air. Is that right? Did you become aware of that? >> Yes, I was made aware of that. >> Right. Do you know who put the drones in the air? >> Uh, Sergeant Cam Nelson with the Pro Police Department. Right. >> So, it wasn't UVU. >> No. >> Did you guys even have drone capability? Did you have a drone on campus that you used? >> No. >> All right. So someone would have had to bring one after the shooting onto campus because you wouldn't have had one there. >> True. >> Right. You mentioned that as you were coming down into the grassy area from the top above the tent, you come down the hall of flags. You come into the grassy area. You mentioned that you heard, I guess on your radio, that they had a suspect in custody. >> Yes. >> And so, how long do you think between the shot being fired did you hear that? >> I was in, like I said, trying to get down the stairs, jumping over people, trying not to step on people as people were fighting up within 30 seconds maybe. >> Right. So, they pretty much instantly had someone in custody. >> Yes. And that's why I was quite quite surprised. Were you aware of where the person was taken into custody? >> Uh, right down by where Charlie Kirk was sitting by his tent somewhere down there. >> So, in the courtyard area, the person would have been in the courtyard area at the time of the shooting. >> Yes. >> Was that person in or near or around the holster in any way? >> Uh, no. >> You don't know? >> No, it he wasn't. where that holster was was >> up on the top level up there and it was where the when the incident happened when when they when Charlie got shot uh within seconds the other officer that was down by him said that he was in custody with a prisoner of the shooter. So >> So within right there >> you didn't um at that time it was your understanding the person they took into custody was close by Mr. Kirk. Is that right? >> Yep. But it didn't occur to you that well that's not where I heard the shock come from. They must have the wrong person. I should talk to somebody >> during the chaos moment. No, that's that they said they had person in custody. I figured those guys saw something I didn't see. They took the person in custody and I thought that was him. >> Okay. I actually I'm this would be a good stopping place because I'm about to start another section. >> Okay. >> So maybe we could go five minutes early for lunch. >> Absolutely. All right. >> Thank you. Thank you, officer. >> We're going to go ahead and break for lunch. We'll come back at 1:00. I do want to note for uh the camera operator, if you would just be cognizant and turn off the microphone during breaks and when we break for recess, uh that would be helpful. Uh do does either party need the benefit of the record before we break for lunch? >> All right, we are in recess. Court is back in session. Noting the presence of council. Believe we left off crossexamination. Miss Nester, are you ready to proceed? >> Yes. May I please the court? >> All right, you may. >> Good afternoon. >> I do want to circle back before I start my new section on two I just want to specify two things. First of all, um we talked about that you had had no briefing or no materials about security on campus for this particular event. Did you ever have any operational or tactical plan that you were given for that event? >> Uh for this event, no. Okay. And you also mentioned that you've done SWAT in the past. >> Yes. >> Um, were you a were you a sniper? >> I wasn't. I worked well with them, but I was not a sniper. >> Okay. >> So, when you Okay, just strike that. >> Also, we talked about the holster, the holster that was found. Are you aware there were any other guns confiscated on the scene that day? >> I'm not. You don't know one way or the other? >> All right. Now, I want to go through with you your timeline. Um, you mentioned that you you started at the Hall of Flags, right? And then you came down, it took you a minute to kind of navigate the stairs with the crowd and the chaos and everything. And then you were in the grassy area of the courtyard for a bit. Is that right? I guess about 30 seconds get down the stairs and then I went right down to where the tent was >> and that's where you found the holster. >> No, the holster was up higher. So I went down by the tent so it's lower level. So as I came down towards where Charlie Kirk was shot, I went down towards the tent to assess to see what was going on down there because I I didn't know exactly what I heard the gunshot. Didn't know exactly what was going on. >> I'm sorry. I missed that you went down to the tent. So let me ask you about that. So what did you do when you got down to the tent? Uh when I got down the tent, Charlie was gone. They put him in an SUV and left. Um at that moment, there was still some people running around. So I decided to preserve the scene as much as I could with trying to escort people out. And that's why I went back in and started pushing people off the grass area to conserve any ammunition or any casings or anything to that effect that would be around. I wanted to make sure people were off and there was much evidence preserved as possible. >> So just to be clear, by the time you got to the tent, Mr. Kirk had already been removed and taken from the scene. Is that right? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Um, so in your professional opinion, what was what was the perimeter of the crime scene? >> What do you mean by a parameter? So >> the perimeter like how far did this crime scene stretch? Like where did you want people to move off of? >> Oh, well at first I wanted them all off the grass because like I said is I thought we had a suspect in custody. So to me it would be a close encounter. So I was trying to push everybody off the grass in case there were shell casings or to that effect that it got on the grass. So after I pushed them off to that part um and getting up to the top where I saw that empty holster, when I saw that empty holster is when it things started slowing down for me a little bit. All the chaos and stuff is that's when I realized that it was a rifle shot, not a handgun shot. >> Okay. And that's when you saw the low sea building and it occurred. Do you should go check it out? >> Yes, it was right in my line of sight. And correct me if I'm wrong, but um you the whole time that this is going on, you had an active body camera on your I guess your collar. Is that right? >> I was right here on my chest. Yes. >> Okay. And it was on >> Yes. >> Um and it appears to me from reviewing your body camera that there was another individual who was with you that went to the Losi building who was in civilian clothing but appeared to have a gun. Who was that? I I don't know who he was exactly. He He had a badge on and I had somebody with me to back me up as I ran up the stairs to make sure I had somebody with me. >> So, you don't know what agency he's from or where he's from? >> No. >> And he it looked like he had a pistol. >> Yes. >> Is that right? >> A handgun. Yes. >> A handgun. >> Yeah. >> Um and so the two of you go to the Losi building. >> Yes. Did when you reviewed the videotape at the police department later, did you check to see if anyone had been on the LOC building after the shooting after this individual had jumped off that you've already talked about? Was there anybody else on the roof? Did you check and see in that gap of time? >> In that gap of time, no. So, once I put up the barrier, I only walked walked up to about that point. Then I went down and reviewed the video from that moment on. So, were you able to see are you able to say for one way or the other if anyone else had been on that roof in between when the person jumped off the building and when you came on the roof? Are you able to say one way or the other? >> Uh, there was people up there looking for an individual that ran that way because when I first got told the individual ran heading north, we didn't know where the shooter was. So, we started climbing up and looking clearing the building. And it wasn't until I went to the PD and actually saw him jump off of the building that I knew he was off the building. Let me rephrase that because I think I'm I either asked it badly or you misunderstood me. So, let me let me go back again. So, from the time that the individual that you spotted on the video jumped off the roof, right? The individual that you thought was in the prone position. >> Okay. >> Between that and when you got on the roof, did you ever check to see if anybody else had been on the roof in that period of time? >> Yeah. And I didn't see anybody. >> So, you did? >> I didn't notice anybody. >> Yeah. You didn't did you look on the video to see that entire Okay, that's what I'm asking. So, you did not review the video to see if there was someone between you that individual jumping off and you coming on if anybody had been on or disturbed that scene in any way. >> Okay. But once you put the tape up, you're then we're confident from that point on the scene was preserved, right? >> Um, by the way, where did you get that tape? Uh officers responded on the scene that he was down on the bottom and threw it up to me. So >> Okay. So you didn't have it on you? >> No. >> And you didn't leave the scene to go get it? >> No. >> Someone threw it up? >> Yes. >> Great. While you were on the roof, did you encounter any spent casings? >> As a matter of fact, no. That's why when I I saw the prone position where the where a person would be laying down as a sniper, I being around guns and snipers all the time, I was looking for a spent shell casing. I couldn't see one. I was looking over the edge, looking all over the place, making sure the gravel wasn't disturbed. And I couldn't find a shell casing at that moment. >> And that would be the reason you would be looking for that was because some types of guns when they shoot eject a casing automatically, right? Some do, >> some don't. >> Yes. >> Right. Um, and then you also didn't find any un unshot bullets? >> No. >> Okay. Are you aware of there being a bullet found on another roof? >> I'm not >> vicinity. Were you aware of another bullet being found on the scene, not on the roof of the Losi building? >> No. >> All right. Your body cam footage that I reviewed appears to end while you're still on the roof. Do you know why that is? >> I think the battery went dead. It was destroyed right at that moment. >> Okay. And do you know did you ever turn it back on that day or go get it re I don't know. What do you have to do? Charge it or stick a new battery in it? I don't even know. >> Usually dock it, but no, I didn't go back. I was too It was too chaotic running around. So that 27 minute and 35 second body cam that starts when you're at the Hall of Flags and ends while you're still on the roof, but haven't put the crime tape up yet. That's the only body cam you have that day. >> Yes. >> Great. You mentioned when you went to the police department, you watched the video where you saw an individual up on the roof, >> right? And that individual was in the vicinity where you saw the disturbance in the gravel. >> Yes. >> And um when you looked at that video, were you able to identify the individual's face? >> Uh no. >> Were you able to identify any markings on their clothing? >> Uh no. >> Were you able to identify their height? >> No. when you all when we looked at the picture of the I think you called it the sniper perch. I'm gonna use your word um words. It looked like there was a measuring tape laid out next to it. Did you ever were you present when they measured like the distance like how long how tall that person would have been? >> I was not. >> So you don't know what that is? >> I don't. >> Um were you able to tell the person's weight from the video that you saw? I can tell he wasn't a heavy set, so more of a >> skinnier person. >> Could you identify what shoes they were wearing? >> I could not. >> Could you identify anything about a hat or what was on their head? >> At the moment, no, I couldn't. >> Okay. And did you see a gun in the video? I saw a long black object in the left hand as he was running over across the roof. >> And in fact, did you describe that in your report as a um bag? >> I don't know. I have no idea. I don't know why. >> All right, let's pull that report back Oh, never mind. I don't think you mentioned what you saw. So, in your report, let's do pull that back up, So, looking at the second page, you're actually going to have to go to page you talk about what you saw on the video where they jumped off the roof and again I'm going to remind you of our conversation we had before about you understand how important these reports are. >> Yep. >> And you do you mention anywhere in this report that you saw a gun? >> I did not. I just had an object. >> Did you mention that you saw that object? Is that on here? Nope. Okay. So, you left that out. Now, have you looked at that over and over again? >> The video? No, I've only seen it quite like twice. >> Oh, really? When's the last time you saw it? >> Uh, it's been months. >> Okay. The last time you saw it, were you able to tell what that object was in his hand? >> Uh, yes. Well, not tell what it is. I can see there's an object in that left hand. Yes. >> And could you, knowing what you know about the case today, do you have an idea about what that object was? It looks like a a rifle or something to that effect. A long long object. >> It looks like a rifle. >> Like a long object like skinny and long. You can see it's like almost like it's covered over something. >> So you saw the cover which was the towel, right? >> Yes. And and the shape of it is long. >> Okay. You know, >> so you can see a towel, but you can't see an actual >> I don't know if it was a towel or a blanket. I don't know what it was. >> But you can't see an actual gun. >> No. Like an object like a form of a gun. like a long object. >> Okay. At the end of that day, how what time did you leave the campus? >> I was probably like 9:00 that night, maybe somewhere around there. >> And did you come back the next morning and work some more? >> I came back the next morning. Yes. >> And you worked all day the next day? uh on and off. >> When you left at 900 PM, did you or anyone else know who the shooter was on that day? >> Uh, no, not that I know of. >> And when you came back the next morning and worked that afternoon all that day, did anybody you or anybody on that campus know who the shooter was? >> Uh, not that I know of. >> Okay. So nothing that you found that day or anyone else to your knowledge on campus was able to identify who the shooter was? >> And that day? No. >> Well, during the time I was there. No, that I knew of. >> I also want to talk to you about that giant picture that was showed to you. Um, do you know >> exhibit 35? I think. >> Yes, it's exhibit 35. Do you know who took that picture? Where it came from? >> I do not. Do you know how old it is? >> Uh, I have no idea. >> Okay. And the pictures you were shown, exhibits one, two, and three that you got up and kind of talked about and showed all the buildings and everything. Um, do you have any knowledge about where those pictures came from or >> I guess they were drone footage taken from a drone. >> Do you know who was operating the drone? >> Sergeant Cam Milson from Provo Police Department. >> Provo Police Department. Had you seen those pictures before today? >> Uh before today. Yes. >> When did you see them? >> Uh a couple weeks ago. >> And that was just in preparation for testifying. >> Prior to that, had you ever seen those pictures? >> Can I have the court's indulgence for just a moment, your honor? One last uh thing I want to clarify. We heard you testify that Ms. Richards or I don't know if she's Deputy Richards. >> Oh, she's a she's a state employee for the forensic lab. >> So, Miss Richards, >> um she is the one who took those nighttime pictures of this stuff on the roof. >> Yes. And it you testified that she told you that that was what they looked like that day. >> Yes. >> When when did you meet with her? >> I talked to her on the phone. It was several weeks ago in preparation for the trial. >> So prior to a couple weeks ago, you never discuss those pictures with >> Yeah. I'd never seen them. >> Oh. So a couple weeks ago is the first time you saw them. >> Yeah. >> And did you write any kind of supplement to your report to add on to your report other than what we've gone through today? That one report you wrote. Have you ever written another one? >> I have not. >> That's all I have. Thank you, honor. I tender the witness. >> Thank you, M. Miss Nester. Mr. Gernander, redirect. >> Just one question. I believe Judge. >> officer Bagley. If I if we could pull up You've talked about this uh handgun holster that you observed. >> Yes. >> On the grass in the courtyard. >> Yes. >> I'm going to ask you if you would approach the uh monitor when it comes up and point out as best you can where you So again the question is is where where was that uh holstered line when you observed it? So again this is the picture of the courtyard area facing north uh on the south end down here you got different tiers of grass on this top tier back here in this area which is more the center bottom left of the photo. So, it's going to be the waterfalls on the on the left side. So, more towards the top of it on the south side by the Fugal building. That top tier grass is about where it was at >> in the middle middle area of that. >> Yes. >> Ne by the Fugal building. >> Okay. >> And that's where I could see straight up where the line of sight was. >> Okay. Thank you. Nothing further, Judge. >> All right. May this witness be excused? >> Yes, sir. >> Yes. Just for the benefit of those in attendance, you may have noticed that I drink some water. Please, if you have water and what's been previously approved, don't hesitate. Yours, you can drink, just don't spill it. Um, and let's go to the state. Uh, ready to proceed with your next witness? >> Thank you, judge. say calls David whole. All right. You like to come forward and be sworn in. >> You do solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give in the case now pending before the court will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God. >> All right. If you'd like to be seated right here at the witness in the witness seat. And once you're situated, there's a bottle of water to your left. And uh if you wouldn't mind after you're seated bringing that microphone closer >> All right, council. >> Thank you. >> Be ready. >> Good afternoon. >> Afternoon. >> Uh would you please state your full name and spell your last? >> David Hull. Hu L. >> And are you employed? >> I am. Yes. >> Who are you employed by? >> Uh I'm employed by the Department of Public Safety. And >> how long have you worked for the Department of Public Safety? I'm in my 12th year. >> Are you uh are you a peace officer? >> I am. Yes. >> Are you post-certified? >> I am. Yes. >> When did you receive receive your certification? >> Uh 2015. >> And since that time, has your certification remain intact? In other words, has it lapsed or been taken away or anything like that? >> You uh I think you said you're in your 12th year. Did you did you already say that? Your 12th year with the DPS. Uh, have you worked for any other law enforcement agency besides the DPS? >> No, just the state of Utah. >> What is your current assignment with Department of Public Safety? >> Currently positioned as an investigative sergeant at peace officer standards and training. >> Was that your assignment at se in September of 2025? >> Uh, no it was not. >> What was your assignment then? >> I was uh under the State Bureau of Investigations uh major crimes division as an investigator. >> Okay. Is is SBI an acronym or an acronym that's commonly used to describe the State Bureau of Investigation? >> It is. Yes. >> I can refer to it as the SBI and we're all on the same page, right? >> Yep. >> Okay. Uh how long were you with the SBI? >> Uh a little over seven years. >> And what uh what exactly did you do? What was your assignment with the SBI? >> Uh I spent just under a year in the alcohol bureau um and uh and the undercover unit. And then the remainder of that time was with major crimes. >> Major crimes. What what did that entail? >> Uh predominantly investigating uh crimes that are considered to be major in nature. Um predominantly violent crime including homicide, sexual assault, uh in some cases uh fraud cases, uh kind of covered a whole gambit of of things, but predominantly violent crime. And and throughout your career with the DPS, have you uh done any training related to murder investigations specifically? >> Yes, I have. >> And could you just briefly describe what that specific training entailed? I've done um internal and external courses um around uh lead homicide investigation, officer involved critical incidents, uh child deaths and unexplained deaths in children, aquatic homicide, um and then uh just continuing investigations related to homicide itself. And and throughout your uh career with DPS, have you either played a role in or led uh a homicide investigation? >> I have. Yes. >> How many do you think? >> Um either directly or indirectly. I've probably been involved in approximately 40 or so. >> And is that throughout the state of Utah? >> Yes, we we assist throughout the state >> Were you working September 10th of 2025? >> I was. Yes. And uh did you work shifts? Did you work a certain shift that day or how does it work at the SBI? >> Kind of work 24/7, 365, but predominantly uh Monday through Thursday uh office hours. >> Okay. On that day, were you asked to respond to the campus of Utah Valley University? >> I was. Yeah, I was uh I was at the office in Taylorville and I was asked to respond down to Utah Valley University. >> Okay. And what did you understand was going on at UVU that day? >> Uh, I I didn't know much. I I had been told that uh there was some kind of an event and an individual had been shot. >> Did you have a name? >> Uh, someone had told me that that Charlie Kirk had been shot. >> At that point in time, were you familiar with Charlie Kirk? >> I was not. No. >> Did Did you end up responding? So, when you found out that there was an event that it was Charlie Kirk that had been shot, that that was while you're still up in Taylor'sville at your office? Yes, we hadn't been asked to respond at that point. Um, another agent in the office showed me a video of the shooting and I I went back to work because we hadn't been asked to respond at that point. At >> at some point though, were you asked to respond or directed to respond to Utah Valley? >> Yes, we were. We were asked to make our way down to the university to provide any kind of assistance that was needed. >> Okay. And do you recall who directed you to to come down to Utah Valley? >> I believe it was Lieutenant Jensen. And is is that something responding to a scene like this uh on a report like that, is that something that's done frequently uh within the the SBI? >> Yeah, SBI functions as a as a supplementary investigative division for really anybody in the state who needs it, whether it's a smaller local agency that just needs additional resources. Uh we often respond with the crime lab to help process crime scenes. Um but but it would be normal for us to be called out to assist another agency. >> Okay. So so we understand correctly when you were first directed to come down to Utah Valley, you were just coming down to to give whatever help you could you could provide. >> Correct. >> Okay. That eventually changed. >> Yes. Yeah. My assumption was we were we were responding to assist process a crime scene essentially. Prior to September 10th, 2025, how familiar were you with the the Utah Valley University campus? >> Not very. I think I maybe had been there once before. H >> how about from September 10th onward? Did you become more familiar with the campus? >> Became a lot more familiar with the campus. Yes. >> And in what way or how? um both in in walking the campus and and looking at the the incident scene um in viewing surveillance video of the campus and the surrounding areas and and just my general involvement in the investigation. I became a lot more familiar with the buildings uh the the amphitheater and and the surrounding area and the campus itself. >> All right. And we'll we'll come back to that here in a moment. Uh who else responded to UVU from the SBI? Um, originally I thought it was just myself and a couple of others. Um, I remember Sergeant Falmina, Sergeant Bricker, Sergeant El Schultz, Sergeant Clark, uh, Agent Brian Davis, um, and a number of other agents were were arriving or were on scene when I arrived there. >> Do you uh do you recall if other law enforcement agencies responded that same day? Yes, there was a large law enforcement presence. Um, federal entities, I believe the FBI, the DEA, ATF, I think some US Marshalss, there was obviously our state presence, and then there was county and uh city and local agencies on scene also. >> So, had all these folks responded by the time you got here, or had they responded prior to, or >> Some could have been on scene prior to, some were arriving while I was arriving, others arrived later. I know there were several uh forensic uh units from various entities including the state crime lab and other agencies. >> And did you interact with all these different agencies? >> You personally >> uh throughout the course of the the following few days, probably the majority of them. Yes. >> I think you related that originally uh the SBI was directed to come down just to see if you could help. Is that fair to say? Yeah, that was all I knew when I left the office was that go down and see what services what what what what can you do to help? >> And I asked you earlier if that role changed and I I believe you said it did. >> So, let's talk about that. How did your role change from what you initially came down to do to whatever it evolved into? Uh having been on scene for a little while, there were some conversations and discussions that took place and I was informed by my lieutenant that um myself and uh Agent Davis would be taking lead on the investigation on behalf of the State Bureau of Investigations. >> So the SBI was going to be the lead investigative agency, >> correct? >> And you were going to be the lead case agent? >> Yes, sir. What does it mean to be the lead investigator or the lead case agent? >> Uh, depends on the situation, but predominantly you're responsible for um kind of directing the investigation, coordinating information that that is coming in. Uh, typically scenes are fairly chaotic initially. So, you're trying to process as much information as possible and make as much use of the available resources that you have. um kind of an organizational role would probably be a good way to describe it. >> Okay. So, you you played an active role in organizing >> uh in coordination with with the administrations of all of the agencies that were on scene. Yeah, we were trying to coordinate efforts and and get to pertinent information as quickly as possible. >> Do do you recall whether assignments were made at least with the SBI agents that responded with you? Yeah, we have a a core group uh within major crimes that were assigned specific tasks. >> Okay. And and do they include the agents that you mentioned just a minute ago? >> Uh yes, I believe so. >> So each one of those agents with the SBI were given a specific assignment. >> Yes, with with the information we had, uh the agents were assigned to do specific things. >> And do you remember specifically what assignments were were were given to who? >> Yes. Sergeant Famina was asked to coordinate with the the state crime lab and the responding crime scene texts to uh manage and process any identified crime scenes. Uh Sergeant Mark Bricker was put in touch with uh UVU's uh surveillance and operations team to start working through any available footage or information that we had that had been recorded. Uh, Sergeant Clark was uh tasked with um the area canvas uh around the the campus area uh looking for information or or any available information from the immediate uh area around campus. Sergeant El Schultz was working with the the SIAK and and other administration to try and manage the flow of information that had started to occur. >> Okay. You said that uh initially when you showed up things were were a bit chaotic. >> Yes. >> Did that have something to do with all the different agencies that had responded? >> Yes. And I think initially there was still some uncertainty as to whether we were we were working with an active an active shooter or or an active crime scene. The campus is spread over a large area and so so getting that um deemed to be safe is quite a process and involved a lot of people. >> Gotcha. Do do you know if the the campus was um deemed safe eventually? >> Eventually, my understanding is the campus was locked down and secured and and we were able to start getting people in to start processing crime scenes and and doing additional things. >> Okay. You said uh it sounds like that chaos eventually subsided. You got organized and assignments were made. What What was the first thing that you did as as lead investigator? Uh it well it kind of became organized chaos but but we did have a plan and our priority was determining whether we had an ability or a way to be able to identify who had been involved in the shooting. >> That was our uh that was our primary focus at that time. >> Did that include collecting information that was becoming available? >> Yes, we were getting a large volume of information from the general public. uh phone tips, um people sending videos, uh analysts were were scrolling through social media and social sites as people were posting information onto the internet. Um so there were there was a lot of information coming in, a lot of things that needed to be processed through and worked. >> Okay. Were videos coming in? >> Yes, cell phone videos were coming in. Um, if you imagine there's 3,000 people in an event and everybody has a cell phone, there was a lot of information that people were willing to share with us. >> Right. Do do you know whether uh you or someone else with the FBI collected or received a video from an Amanda Wright? >> Yes. Yeah, I know a cell phone video was collected from Amanda Wright. >> And do you know Amber, right? >> Oh, I'm sorry. Amber. Did I Well, you tell me. Amanda or Amber? >> Amber. Okay. I apologize for that wrong first name. Um, do you know who or how that video was collected? >> Yeah, I spoke with Miss Wright directly on the phone to arrange a time to go and collect that video. Um, unfortunately, she wasn't available uh that day, but Agent Davis was able to go meet with her directly and collect the video. >> Do you recall what date you you actually spoke to Miss Wright? >> Um, if I can refresh my recollection, I specifically >> Sure. Let me ask you this before you do that. Yes, sir. So, you you have in front of you what your police report. >> Uh I have some notes and a timeline as from my investigation that was part of discovery >> and and referencing that that uh timeline or those notes. Will they help you recall the date that you called Miss Wright? >> They will. Yes. >> Okay. Why don't you go ahead and refer to that? Don't read from it out loud. Just take a minute. Let me know when you've come across that information and once you've refreshed your memory. Your honor, when he's done, may I take a look at the U materials as well, please? >> You may. >> Um, Miss Wright was contacted on April 7th. >> All right, Master, if you'd like to come forward, Mr. Sturgil, when you're you go back, if you wouldn't mind shifting your the the lectum to my right. >> Your right. >> Yes. It just appears when the c camera's uh focused on you. uh just the way it's positioned it's it's you're you're in front of the witness and and uh we just want to make sure that >> it won't go far. >> Yeah, it's only gonna go that far. Is that gonna be far enough? >> I think that that is sufficient. So, all right. Thank you. I appreciate your time. >> Just check from the Are we still connected? >> Okay. >> All right. Let's make sure that Mr. Sergil is picked up. >> Okay. >> All right. You may proceed. Thank you. >> And if if I can make if I can make a correction to that, I think >> Well, let me ask you this first. So, >> so he needs to ask you a question. So, Mr. Sergil, >> so you've had a moment to look at your notes. >> Did that help you remember the date that you contacted Miss Right? >> It did. Yes. >> Okay. Um, why don't you go ahead and tell us what date you contacted Miss Right. >> I contacted her um I think it was April 6th specifically, but uh Agent Davis met with her on April 7th. >> Okay. Well, that was going to be my next question. So, you actually talked to her on the Was it on the phone? >> It was. Yes. And did you arrange a time for either you or Agent Davis to go get the video from Miss Wright? >> Yes. >> Is that how it happened? >> Yes. >> And then you didn't go. It was Agent Davis that went. >> Correct. >> And what if anything has been done with that video in preparation for today? >> Um my understanding is that some uh edits were made uh by your office in order to protect some of the participants in the video. >> Okay. But what um let me ask you this. Did you or Agent Davis visit with Miss Wright again? >> Yes, that was in April and and that was um where my correction was uh the video was originally provided to Agent Mortensson. Okay. >> So I miss I misspoke. >> Okay. Let's let's just let's let's go back and let's make sure this is very clear. >> Sure. >> Okay. So um someone with the FBI collected a video >> Yes. Yes. From from uh Amber Wright. >> Yes. Agent Mortonson contacted Miss Wright on October 8th and a video was provided to him electronically on October 11th. >> Okay. And um now I'll ask the next question. What if anything has been done either by you or another agent with that same video in preparation for today's hearing? We contacted Miss Wright to arrange a meeting so that Miss Wright could review the video and that we could verify firsthand with her that the video was what she had taken on September 10th at the event at UVU. >> Okay. And and who had that follow-up visit with Miss Wright? >> That was Agent Davis. I was not able to attend. >> Okay. And you know that happened because you spoke to Agent Davis. >> I spoke to Agent Davis and he provided me with a a written statement um that Miss Wright had completed. >> Okay. and 1102. >> And so you you have you have seen that written statement? >> I have. Yes. >> Okay. And you've read through it? >> I have. >> Does that um do you recall whether that statement was on a form or a piece of scratch paper? What do you recall? >> Uh my recollection is that it was on an official I believe a state bureau 112 statement. Uh which is a a written form that is filled out by a witness that contains the 1102 warning. And by that, do you mean the advisory that the statement that's written on that piece of paper is going to be used at a preliminary hearing? >> Yes. >> It includes that advisory? >> Yes. >> Does it also include a warning that if someone provides a false statement, in this case, Miss Wright, that it could be punishable by a class A misdemeanor? >> It does. Yes. And what do you recall uh is the essence of that written statement from Miss Wright? I mean, what what does it basically say? >> Object, your honor, at this point. Um we want to assert our standing objection to the constitutionality of allowing in Ms. uh rights statement um when she is not here present in court to be cross-examined. Um we did include those constitutional arguments in our standing objection. Um also um this does fall under the type of document that should O2, parin 8, parin F as in Frank. Um, and and or should be classified as protected under subsection 5 O as in orange. Um, because the disclosure could jeopardize the life, safety, or property of the witness. It's also technically um a victim's um I mean if she's present under the current theory and the um information she's technically could be classified as a victim of the event. Um so it also should be protected under that. Um so we would object to it being read in public. It would not be admissible at trial in the current format that it is due to its hearsay nature. Um, we do think it would negatively impact our client's right to a fair trial. And furthermore, I believe the witness herself has requested that particularly because the um video contains images of minor children, which I know the state has made an effort to redact, but nevertheless, the uh reference to the minors I think would still fall under the protection. And so for all those reasons, we would object to that coming out in public and being discussed in the public forum and being published in any way. And we object to it coming in. >> All right. And so if you wouldn't mind just restating the rule that you're relying upon so I can fully look at your objection. It's the UCJA, the Utah um oh gosh, Code of Judicial Code of Judicial Administration. I just blinked. The Utah Code of Judicial Administration 02 parenthetical 8 parenthetical F as in Frank and or parenthetical 5 and parenthetical capital O. >> All right. Thank you. I'm just >> Yes, sir. >> getting there. I want to review this All right, I have reviewed that. Mr. Sergil just let me let me address I guess a couple of things. Um, Miss Nester actually brought up I think both um the 11:02 statement that we intend to introduce and sort of referred to the video. So, let me address each of those one at a time. With regards to the 11022 statement that was prepared by Miss Wright, judge, it was gathered in compliance uh with the Utah rules of evidence 112 specifically uh subsection B8. It's uh it's a statement that was gathered by an SBI agent. uh it was prepared uh with knowledge of the advisory that it was going to be used at the preliminary hearing and it was also it also included the warning that if a false statement is given uh it's it's going to be a class A misdemeanor. Judge, I I don't know um what additional foundation you'd like. Uh well, that's kind of where I was going, Judge, is I was trying to lay a little bit more foundation just to introduce that statement alone. I haven't got yet to the video, but with regards to the 1102 statement, it has been uh collected in compliance with rule 1102, uh as I stated B3 or B8. Um and uh as we all know, rule 1102 allows reliable hearsay as does the uh state constitution article 1 section 12. >> So what what exhibit will this be? I I want to look at it uh not for the purposes of as a magistrate taking into evidence but see if it comports with rule 1102 as as stated because I haven't seen it. >> Sure. And I haven't done the analysis to see if that objection is it is states And your honor, just for the record, um, we just want to make a record, too, that it's difficult for the court to make a reliability finding when the individual is not here to be tested and cross-examined. And for those same reasons that we list in our standing objection, we just want to reiterate to the court that we think it really hampers you from making that reliability determination. >> Thank you. Anything further, Mr. Sturgil? >> Well, just that that 112 doesn't require that, Judge. It doesn't require the witness be here uh to corroborate the the statement that they've already All right. I have had a chance to review today's stage exhibit 6.1 uh taking into note uh what Miss N UCJ 4-202.02 02 in referencing the section she did. >> Well, and Judge, I don't mean to interrupt, but I I had not yet addressed that rule. I I would simply just add to that that that judicial rule, it has nothing to do with admissibility. It's simply publishing it. >> And I'm sorry. >> So, okay. So, let me just hear your full argument. >> Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize you wanted to hear all I thought you were going to rule on the 11:02, but uh >> Well, I I want to focus on the 11:02. I want to keep this clean. So, let's focus on the 11:02 and then and we'll stop there and I can make my ruling and then >> uh if there's any objections I just need to take it one step at a time to be thorough. So, I'll hear all your arguments about the the 1102 statement. I'll I'll return to Miss Netor for any final thoughts and then I'll make my ruling and then we can move to the next stage. >> I appreciate that, Judge. And and I think what I've I think I have addressed the 1102 question. Um, as far as admissibility under rule 1102, I thought that's what you wanted to rule on first and then I would address the the UCJA4-202.02. And if you want me to do that now, I can do that. And it's just simply that it does has nothing to do with admissibility. Um, it has everything to do with publishing that. And and judge, I think, uh, if you'll look at that written statement, I believe Miss Wright's personal information for the Other than that and beyond that, judge, I'll leave it up to your discretion. >> Well, as it relates to Well, let me let me take it one at a time. Let's start with the last statement. What I have in front of me, plaintiffs exhibit 6.1 has her full information in here. Address, phone number, social security number. >> Okay. Judge, I apologize for that. I thought we'd provided a a reducted version of that. >> Yeah. I think I've clarified what's going on here. I think we provided you with an unredacted version some time ago. Uh the version that we have and are prepared to present today is a redacted version. Could I have a copy of what you're intending to admit into evidence so I >> Yeah, judge. We can bring it up electronically. We don't have a hard copy of that. >> All right. I want to make sure that's not coming on screen. It's just coming on my screen to review it. Okay. No, that's fine. It's not. It's just for my that I I can look it on my screen because I'm trying to evaluate. So, if you just want to put it back on >> All right. Well, um, so what I'm doing is I'm looking at this and and just for clarity moving forward, uh, if there is a particular exhibit, I'll ask that you provide it instead of me relying upon here just so there's no, >> uh, misunderstanding and and I can see exactly what is being moved into evidence. I don't want to assume, >> and I want to do the proper analysis. All right. >> And I appreciate that, Judge, and I apologize. I I understood that we were presenting redacted copies today and Okay. There's just been a little bit of glitch. So, I apologize for that, Judge. >> All right. And and Miss Nester, I just want to make sure that you're looking at this exhibit as opposed to what I was just looking at in regards to your arguments. With this clarification in mind, any update to your argument or anything that you would like the court Um, the only other issue I think that exists with this that I haven't already raised is that there's clearly two different authors in the body of the document. Um, one wrote something on the very top line and then it looks like um, Ms. Wright wrote the rest of it. um scroll down which we don't have any indication of who wrote that top line and when they filled that in if it was before or after she signed the document. So I have some concerns about authenticity with respect to that as well. And that's all I have. >> All right. And as I'm determining it, it does appear that the writing is different. Did you want to lay additional foundation, Mr. Sturgil, or provide information for the court? >> Happy to do that. >> Uh do you have in front of you uh states exhibit 6.1? >> I do. Yes. >> Okay. You've heard the discussion that just took place. It appears as if there's two different styles of writing on that form. >> Yes. >> Okay. I I I imagine that that you have the writing that includes the personal information for Miss Wright and then directly below that, I think there's a there's a line there that appears to be arguably writing prepared by someone else. Is that in fact that is that in fact accurate that there that is a different >> That's correct. author of that writing. What do you know about that writing on that first line just below statement of incident? >> Uh because we were asking Miss Wright to verify a specific video, the file name for that video was written on the statement in her presence and then that video with that file name was then shown to Miss Wright to verify that it was in fact the video that she had provided to us. >> Okay. And so was it you or or SBI agent Davis that prepared that? based on the writing. It appears to be Agent Davis's writing, but it's not it's not my writing. >> All right. But that is the routine or is that kind of how you commonly do this? >> In in this case, because we were specifically asking them to verify a specific digital file that had a specific digital name. Um, and we didn't want there to be any errors in how that name was presented. We wrote the file name on the document for the individuals. Okay. >> All right. Anything further, Miss Nester, with that additional information before the court makes its ruling, >> your honor. >> All right. Thank you. And having Could you leave that on the screen for me, please? I was just uh I appreciate that. And scroll down to the bottom. I just want to review it one All right. And I believe this is exhibit 6.1. Is that correct, Mr. >> Judge? And I would I would move to admit 6.1. >> Thank you. So considering the arguments made by Miss Netor and uh Mr. Sturgil, I rely upon rule 1102 as well as the Utah Constitutional Article 1 section 12 as I previously mentioned that final paragraph. Uh it states nothing in this constitution shall preclude the use of reliable hearsay as defined by statute or rule in whole or in part at any preliminary examination to determine probable cause or at any pre-trial proceeding with respect to release of the defendant if appropriate discovery is allowed as defined by statute or rule. I have examined this and clarification was made. the previous version of this would uh fall a foul of of having uh identifiable personal information of Miss Wright and so that was red removed and this one with the redacted portion of the identifiable information personal information for Miss Wright is before me and based off that uh states exhibit 6.1 with redactions is admitted into evidence and may be published Agent Hull, that that statement that was prepared by Miss Wright, what what does it state with regards to uh the video that you show you showed her that day or I guess Agent Davis showed her that day? >> It states that she's confirmed that she did review the video and that it was um a true reflection of the video that she took on September 10th, 2025. And does she identify who's in that video in her statement? >> If we could just have a clarification on the court's ruling. So I understand the court overruled and published and I accept the ruling, but I thought under the court's previous order that the media was not going to film exhibits. Um, and they are filming the ones that are on that screen. So, I guess I just need to clarify that, your honor. I'm sorry. >> No, and I appreciate the clarification. It's important what what my ruling when we came back from break was if you are objecting specifically to the exhibit and then to the exhibit being published in the courtroom and then the exhibit being published which can be captured by media. If that's not specifically addressed, it I am going to allow it. So, I didn't hear a specific um objection to that. So, I appreciate you bringing that up, but that's that's how I'm looking at every single objection. Uh just for clarity of the record. >> Thank you, honor. So, just to make sure I correct the record, we are objecting to the publication of this under the UCGA rules um for the reasons I said, but I respect that you've ruled on that. And in the future, I guess we'll just u make particularly clear we're objecting to publication because I do think anything that's getting on that screen is getting filmed. >> Okay. >> So, thank you, your honor. >> Thank you, Miss Nester. And Mr. Sergil, did you want to respond? I mean, it's it's the uh genie's a little bit out of the bottle on this particular issue, but uh any record you wish to make. >> We're we're simply going to seek to admit each one of these exhibits and then we're going to leave it up to your honor's discretion whether to publish them beyond Well, to what extent you want to publish publish them? >> All right. Well, I I would prefer argument on on on this issue from both sides. I I I don't this is the burden of the state. So, I I don't want to exceed my lane by just assuming. So, I'll leave it to you to make the argument the um sorry about that. >> So before you're moving on, Mr. Sergil, as it relates to this, I want to put this to bed and then we can move on. >> Are you are you were you requesting for it to be published on? So the three you moved it into evidence, which I approved. uh it isn't moved into evidence, but I didn't hear anything in regards to publishing to the courtroom and then lastly publishing uh which it would be captured by the the camera in the background in the back. >> Judge, we we believe these these are public documents and so we would ask they be published both to the audience and to the public at large. >> All right. Well, I given that that we've we've gone past the gate on this one, u it's been published, >> right? But u I'll I'll think we're all on the same page in regards to how objections may be made in how the court is going to consider it so we can move forward. Have you um have you personally watched uh Miss Wright's video? >> I have. Yes. >> And what is depicted in that video? >> Uh it's a view of Miss Wright's position in the crowd at the event on September 10th. And um absent the the written statement from Miss Wright, could can you at least recognize the location that's displayed or depicted uh in this particular video? >> Yes, it's the amphitheater at uh at the Utah Valley University where Mr. Kirk was doing his uh event. >> Do you see anything on your screen yet? >> It's there now. >> It's there now. Do you recognize what's depicted on your screen right now? >> I do. Yes. >> What is that? >> Uh in the background is the hall of flags. Um, and then you have the the gazebo under which Mr. Kirk was presenting his event from and then the crowd between where Miss Wright was and the stage. >> Okay. But do you recognize what this is the beginning of? >> Yes, this is the beginning of Miss Wright's video. >> Okay. Ch would move to admit was spin >> Oh, I'm sorry. Six. I apologize. Hold on, hold on, I just want to get the clarification and then I'll certainly turn to you. So the the levels of admitting into evidence, then the next level is publishing it to the courtroom and then the next level is publishing it in a way that is captured by the media. What is your full request, >> judge? We'd ask that first of all it be admitted uh that it be published uh here within the courtroom uh and then that it also be uh published to the public at large. >> All right. Now I I'm not quite sure what this particular video is showing. Could you lay a little bit more foundation or profer that what this is? >> Sure. You you've seen this video, Agent Hall, >> correct? >> What's depicted in this video? >> Uh the crowd and uh the beginning of Mr. Kirk's presentation to the the audience in the amphitheater at UVU on September 10th, 2025. >> Okay. Um, does it does it depict Miss Wright? >> Uh, I believe towards the end of the video it scrolls back and Miss Wright shows the people that she's with at the event and herself. Yes. >> Right. Is there So, is there any act of alleged violence in this? >> No, there is not, judge, but there is not. >> Okay. I just needed that clarification. Miss Nester, I'll turn to you. I just wanted to make sure I understand the full scope of this exhibit and then hear from your objection if any. >> Your honor, with respect to admission, we object to its admission on the grounds that it's not properly authenticated. Is Miss Wright herself is not present in um for all the constitutional reasons we raised in our standing objection, we object to that. Um, as far as its publication, um, we object to its publication. Um, it definitely is something that in its current form, without her here, would not be admissible in any place other than a preliminary hearing. Um, and we feel like this would really impinge on Mr. Robinson's right to a fair trial. And so, we're asking it not be published. And certainly if the court does publish it that it certainly not be filmed. >> Thank you, Mr. Sturgil. Any response? >> Judge, rule 901 addresses authenticating or identifying evidence to satisfy the requirement of authenticating a document or I guess authenticating a piece of evidence. Uh the proponent, which in this case is the state, must produce evidence sufficient to support a finding that the item is what the proponent claims it to be. And then the rule goes on to explain or provide examples of uh how uh this rule can be satisfied. And at the very top uh under subsection B1 is testimony of a witness with knowledge. Uh that goes on to say that uh testimony that an item is what it is claimed to be uh satisfies this this uh this uh authentication rule. Judge, you have an 112 statement prepared by the person who actually caught uh these images on her her camera or on her phone and uh and so judge I think that alone sufficiently authenticates the document and and then even further than that you have uh agent pole who has reviewed the video himself and authenticates it at least with regards to location. >> Thank you. as it relates to admissibility of this exhibit. I believe this is states exhibit six. Is that >> it is judge. All right, >> I'm sorry to interrupt. Can I add one more thing just for the record? Um in per for purposes of publication 02 parin 4 parin R as in Richard photograph, film or video of a crime victim are designated as private court records. And I do think that based on what the state has previously uh referenced, um they are perceiving that everyone in the audience is a potential victim and so we think it shouldn't be published under that rule. >> Thank you, Mr. Sturgil. on that final point, >> Judge. I appreciate that argument from Miss Neester. Um, and we don't necessarily disagree, but to that end, to protect uh who we believe is a is a victim victims uh in this video, I I believe their faces have been blurred out. >> Oh, I see. I Miss Nester have you >> I think it's only the minor children whose faces are blurred out not Miss Wright if I'm not mistaken unless it's been subsequently altered >> my recollection is they've all been blurred out. >> All right, let me I need to view this again. Uh so let's just put it on my monitor again. I'm just trying to make sure that in order for make a ruling on this I need to view it. So let's put it on my monitor. play it without any sound. Okay. Do I My understanding is the prosecution has control of this exhibit. So, what I'm asking is that the sound be turned off if there is any. And just go ahead and play it and it's only on well, it's on all the parties monitors because I all I want you all to view it because that can go directly to as you've mentioned, Miss Nester, uh whether it it's possibly admissible. >> All right. Thank you. Based off what I've watched, there was some blurring of faces, but not of all the faces. And so I'm going to rule that >> Sure. I'll I'll wait until all parties So, anything further? I just want to make sure >> you had a chance to watch that. >> I did. So, I'm ruling that it is admissible into evidence. Again, taking in consideration the analysis uh the courts talked about regards to 1102s and this particular piece of evidence as it relates to the 1102 video. Oh, the 1102 statement uh 6.1. And uh I'm going to allow it to admit it because the faces of uh the alleged victims are not all obscured, there are some that are visible. uh it's not going to be published to in court monitor and obviously not to uh to be filmed by uh the media. So the court will receive it into evidence. The court will watch it again right now and then we can continue to proceed. >> Very good. Thank you, Ch. >> So if uh to the state if you would like to play it again for me, I'm viewing it as it relates to This is sounds like an issue that's going to come up again. I represent the news media. Can I be heard on this issue? >> Yes. Um the I just wanted to address it. I tried to be quiet. I just wanted to address it now because it's going to keep coming up. It sounds like the classification rule that Miss Netor is citing and that your honor uh was just reading is not about in court exhibits. That is classification for records in the court file. So it is a fundamentally different thing when we are in a public proceeding and the state is presenting an exhibit that you are relying on and the public is being denied the chance to see it. That is that is a fundamental um violation of the right of access and it can it's a qualified right and I recognize that but that's not the the ruling that you just made. you're just ruling based on the code of judicial administration which doesn't have anything to do with when something is presented in a public proceeding. So while I recognize there are certain things where I I understand understand that you were going to make an exhibit by exhibit um uh evaluation based on certain exhibits that may you know be uh somewhat may cross the the heavy threshold of being so prejudicial that they cannot be shown in public. That is not this. And so just I just wanted to make clear that the things that are in rule 202 are not when when it is presented in open court as an exhibit for you to rely on. The public is entitled to see what you're seeing so that they can understand what your decision-making process is. And so and this one it doesn't sound like this sounds pretty anodine to me. You know it's just it's not even depicting the shooting. I just wanted to clarify that the classification issue about when you know we're filing things with the court and we say like this you know maybe we file a motion to classify that's not the decision that you're making today. The decision you're making today is the state is presenting something to you. You're watching it. You're making a decision based on it and the people in the gallery have the right to see that. Whether you allow EMC of it is a different question. Um, and we we think that the EMC should be allowed to for reasons that we briefed, but I do think that it at least should be published to the courtroom. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, your honor. >> Well, there's other I'm sorry. >> Hold on. Okay. So, >> we'll go to Miss Nester first and then to the state. No, your honor. Thank you, >> Mr. Sturgil. The only additional observation I'd make is with regards to this video and this video only, um, the state doesn't believe that the defense really has standing, uh, to to make an argument in behalf of the victims in this case. >> All right. All right. based off of what's been presented uh in recognizing the argument from the media, I I see the differentiation um and and how they are differentiating the rule that was cited versus uh what was presented. So, I'm going to go ahead and rule that this may be played in the courtroom but not be captured on video. So, uh, to the camera operator, I just want to make sure that it's going to be playing on that, but I don't want it captured. I appreciate the patience of the parties as we were going through the many layers that need to be addressed on uh, exhibits such as these. So, we'll go ahead and once that's ready to be That's a lot of people. Utah, I'll tell >> Warner, you know how it works. >> Thank you. And that concludes exhibit six. >> Correct. Thank you, Mr. Sturgil. You may continue. agent hold, did you or any other SBI agent collect additional video? >> Uh, yes, there were other videos collected. Okay. >> What additional video did you collect? >> Um, uh, cell phone video from uh, Mr. Phillips was collected. >> Okay. And do you know who uh or how that video was collected? >> Yes. A agent Schultz made contact with Mr. Phillips uh, September 29th of 2025. and that video was provided to him and subsequently in preparation for the proceedings today. Um myself and agent Davis met with Mr. Phillips um on April 6th and he completed an 11:02 and went through the same process as Miss Wright. The only difference being on this occasion that because he is a minor his mother witnessed it and also signed the statement. >> Okay. So you personally reviewed uh Mr. Mr. Phillips's video with Mr. Phillips. >> Correct. >> Okay. And you had him prepare a written statement. >> Yes. Correct. >> Again, uh on this written statement, are there two different authors? >> Yes. I believe uh in this instance, it was myself that wrote the file name on the form. >> Okay. And so you wrote what what part of the statement did you write? >> Just the name of the file that we were I'm going to have exhibited on your screen what's been marked states exhibit 7.1 >> That's on my screen. >> Is it on your screen? Do you recognize what that is? >> I do. Yes. >> What is that? the state bureau of investigation 1102 form completed by Mr. Phillips. >> Okay. And did you gather that from Mr. Phillips? >> I did. Yes. >> And again, does this statement include the advisory that is going to be used in lie of his testimony at prelim? >> It does. >> And does it also include a warning that if uh he makes a well, the author makes a false statement that it could be punishable by uh being charged with a class A misdemeanor? >> It does. Yes. >> Anything about this exhibit look different than the day you collected it? Uh, no. >> Just state would seek to admit uh exhibit 7.1. >> Miss Nester, >> thank you, your honor. We would object to the admission on the grounds that this video does in fact show a closeup view of the shooting of Mr. Kirk um and grievous injuries um in very stark relief. Um and because of that we are particularly concerned about our constitutional claims we have made and our standing objection in terms of our ability to get a fair trial if this is u public published. And um I think again we have the same issue with the court you know being in a position where you're having to make a reliability um determination without the opportunity for this individual to be cross-examined. Also, I do think the fact this is a minor that um completed this form um does make it protected. He's also potentially a victim um under the same theory that has been stated for Miss Wright. Um and under the um um under the UCJA acts um for the same reason the UCGA rules um for the same reason these should be protected private court records. Um and private means it shouldn't be played to court and it shouldn't be played to the public through the media. Um so we would object to its admission, we would object to its publication and we would object to its filming. Thank you. Any final response? Judge, >> let me address um well, there's two things here, right? Uh let me address first the 11:02 statement, judge. I believe again that this statement was gathered in compliance with rule 112 B8. Just check. Um and the agent has explained that although Mr. Phillips is a minor, his mother was present. And that explains, I believe, he said the second signature on the form. Uh the uh with regards to uh publishing it the 1102 statement that is judge we believe again uh the presumption is this is a public record um and that uh it should be not only admitted but published uh here in court and also published so the the uh media can record it. Um with regards well do you want to address the 1102 and then we'll I'll move on to the video. >> All right. So, we're we're staying focused on the 1102. Any final response, Miss Nester? >> No, your honor. >> Thank you. As it relates to the 1102 statement and uh to the state uh representative who is displaying it, could you scroll down? I can only see the top half of this. and just go to the very bottom so I can look at the totality of it. This is 7.1. All right. uh based off what's before me on the states exhibit 7.1 I find that it is admissible under rule 1102 and uh to the um Utah constitution article 1 section 12 to that paragraph I have referred to previously and so it is admitted into Mr. Mr. Sturgel, remind me. Were you requesting for it to be displayed? I'm again focusing on 7.1, >> right? >> In 7.1, Judge, with regards to the video, we believe it's admissible. It's been authenticated properly. >> Hold on, hold on. I'm not talking about the video. I'm talking about 7.1 publishing it in the courtroom versus publishing it on to be captured by the media >> because we we think that it's pres the presumption is it is a court record. We believe in its redacted form. Uh we believe it should be published uh all in all three areas. >> All right, Miss Nester, any final thoughts? >> My honor. >> All right, we're going to go ahead and grant the publishing of uh plaintiffs exhibit 7.1 in court and that the media may capture that. Scroll up. Slowly >> All right, you may proceed. >> Does it Did you admit exhibit 7.1? >> It is admitted into evidence and it was public. the um Have you personally watched Mr. Phillips's video? >> I have. Yes. >> Okay. And what does it depict? >> Uh it's it's a graphic video. Um Mr. Phillips was positioned towards the front of the crowd and it does depict the the moment that Mr. Kirk is shot. Okay. >> And independent of the 11:02 statement prepared by Mr. Phillips, you watching that video, do you recognize at least the location of uh this video? >> I do. It's it's consistent with the event that Mr. Ko was presenting at UVU on September 10th, 2025. Okay, chair. At this point, the state would move to introduce uh or would move to admit what's been marked state's exhibit number seven. Uh we would simply ask that it be admitted. Uh we would ask however that it not be published beyond that >> m >> due due the graphic nature and the sensitive nature of the video. >> All right. >> So as to the admission the same issues that we raised as to the 1102 we would raise as to um the difficulty of authenticating when the individual is not here present um and all the same concerns um that we raised about the 1102 itself. your honor. >> Thank you. >> All right. Uh considering the >> I'll I'm sorry. May I add one more? I apologize. And also under rule 403, we think it's um more prejuditial than probative and we would raise it for that reason as well. >> Any final response, Mr. Sturge? >> No, your honor. >> All right. >> And this is exhibit seven. Is that correct? >> Correct. Exhibit seven, judge. >> All right. I will admit exhibit 7 into evidence based off the foundation that's laid uh the 1102 is tied directly to this and so for admission purposes it is admitted. I am not going to uh authorize publication in the courtroom or uh obviously through media, but I will have it played on my screen and so I view it. Um and uh I just want to make sure and please council given the graphic nature of it, please guard your screens uh because I believe we all should be viewing this. This is evidence and I want to make sure that you all are seeing what I see to ensure that that is accurate and it's a fair representation of the exhibit that you are familiar with. So, whatever you need to do, I'll give you a moment. Uh, and if you could just give me a thumbs up if you're ready act in a way that is dignified and respecting uh the rights of all persons. And for those reasons, I just want to make sure we are safeguarding to ensure this is not captured. All right. To defense ready to proceed. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. To the state. >> Yes. >> All right. Go ahead and let's play uh exhibit seven. Is there sound? >> All right. Let's make sure that Thank you. Thank you. That concludes playing of You may proceed. Thank you, Judge. agent hold any more video? Did you you collect it or either you or another agent with the SBI? >> Yes, we were able to collect video. Um TPUSA had a videographer uh Visual Impulse um who was taking coverage of the event and they provided video to us that they had captured on September 10th of 2025. Okay. >> And do you know who or how that video was collected from Visual Impulse? Yeah, Mr. Farnsworth originally provided, I believe, a flash drive to Lieutenant O'Brien with one of the local agencies and a short time after that on September 10th, he provided um downloadable versions, electronic versions to Agent Mortonson and um an 112 was collected from him on May 6th of 2026. >> So an 112 was prepared by someone with visual impulse. Yes, Terrell Farnsworth was the individual that prepared it and in preparation for this. I spoke to him personally regarding that statement. >> And do you know what his association is with Visual Impulse? >> Uh I believe he's the owner operator or the director of the the company. >> And then who collected that 1102 statement from Mr. Farnsworth? >> Um it was Agent Mson who collected it. >> Okay. And you know that because agent Mson told you or >> he provided it to me. Um, and then as I mentioned, I subsequently spoke to Terrell Farnsworth personally regarding his statement. >> Okay. Have you had a chance to look at Mr. Farnsworth's 112 statement? >> I have. Yes. >> Okay. And again, does that statement um include an advisory that any statement that he provided would be used a preliminary hearing in lie of his life testimony? >> Yes. Did it also include a warning that a fault statement would uh potentially be punished by a class A misdemeanor? >> It did. Yes. >> Okay. >> I'm going to have exhibited on your screen what's been marked states exhibit 8.1. >> That's come up. >> Um I think it's a single page, is it not? You see that? >> Yes, >> you do recognize that >> I do. Yes. >> Okay. And again, that is what >> it's the 1102 statement that was provided to me um completed by Mr. Farnsworth from Visual Impulse, who is the videographer for TPUSA for the events that they do. >> Okay. >> Judge, the state would move to admit uh states exhibit 8.1. >> Miss Nester. >> Thank you, your honor. Um at this point, we renew our objection. This is hearsay. Um this statement is hearsay. We have constitutional concerns for the reasons we raised in our standing objection. Um, we also would like to cross-examine Mr. Farnsworth about uh whether or not and to what extent these um videos may have been altered in any way. It is clear that clips were m being made out of the larger videos because he sent even his own statement says he sent larger videos and this is just a small portion of them. So obviously someone made clips and we don't know who, we don't know how, we don't know what they did. Um and for those reasons and the reasons and our standing objection um we would object to the admissibility of it and as well the um I don't have a redacted version of 8.1 but I assume there is one um there is personal information on this one. Do you have a red? Okay. I don't have that one. All right. Um and we would object to publication just on our concerns for fair trial. um the same issues >> those three. >> Yeah. Gotcha. >> Yeah, I think so. Thank you. Um and for all those reasons, we would object to its um admissibility, its publication, and its um ability to be filmed by the media. Your honor, >> Miss Nester, I just wanted to check. Did you get a copy of the redacted? >> I was just handed it. Um >> I just wanted to make sure that you had copies. >> Thank you, your honor. >> So, okay. Thank you, Mr. Sturgil. Would you like to respond? >> Sure, Judge. Thank you. With regards to the admissibility of the statement, judge is I think foundation has been laid that this statement was collected in compliance with Utah rule of evidence 1102 subsection B8. It uh it constitutes reliable hearsay. It's a statement that's been made by a declarant that's written and it's under oath or not under oath but pursuant to a notification of the declarant that a false statement made is punishable. I think there's been foundation to support that. In addition, judge article 1 section 12 of the Utah Constitution makes it very clear that the state at preliminary hearing can rely upon reliable hearsay. >> All right. Anything further before I make my ruling? >> Thank you. applying the same analysis from the previous exhibits as it relates to the written statement under rule 1102 and also under the Utah Constitution article 1 section 12 in that last paragraph I will overrule the objection and admit uh plaint states exhibit 8.1 uh let me hold off on that final phrase if you could scroll down to the state representative and Just stop right there. Thank you. I just want to make sure I fully review it just go ahead and go ahead and scroll down to the end. I don't believe there's Thank you. So, I do rule that overrule the objection and uh states exhibit seven I'm sorry 8. is admitted into evidence and may be published. Well, >> judge, let me speak with regards to that. With regards to the 1102 statement prepared by Mr. Farnsworth in its redacted form, uh we believe that the presumption is this is a public record and that it should be published both here in court and made available to the public by virtue of the camera. >> I just stand on the objection I made before your honor. Thank you. All right. Looking at the same analysis, it is admissible under rule 1102 as well as article 1 section 12 of the Utah Constitution. And being that the the uh person's identifying information is redacted and not viewable. I'm going to overrule the objection, the standing objection, and have it published both in court and may be published uh by the media. So, let's just get it situated. And what I'll have you do to the representative of the state, uh, pause on this screen and then in 10 seconds, scroll down to the full text portion and then 10 seconds later, just slowly scroll to the remainder of All right, you can continue. >> Thank you, judge. >> Well, hold on. She's still going