25 UNITED STATES GRAND JURY

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 UNITED STATES GRAND JURY SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK UNITED STATES OF AMERICA -x -V- : January 19, 2021 Additional GHISLAINE MAXWELL (2018R01618) APPEARANCE S: x United States Courthouse Foley Square New York, New York March 29, 2021 10:05 a.m. States Attorney d States Attorney M inury Reporter FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 ONLOLSDNYJMONn23 EFTA00008744 03/29/2021 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Colloquy Precedes) (Witness Enters Room) (Time Noted: 10:14 a.m.) called as a witness, having been duly sworn by the Foreperson of the Grand Jury, was examined and testified as follows: BY MS. Q. Good morning. A. Good morning. Q. Would you please state your name for the record? A. Detective Q. Detective where do you work? A. New York City Police Department. Q. I'm going to ask you to please keep your voice up, and speak as slowly as you can. BY MS. Q. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER. And you can pull the microphone toward you so that everyone in this big room can hear you. Thank you. Where do you work? A. New York City Police Department. Q. What is your title there? A. Detective. Q. How long have you been with the NYPD? A. About 15 years. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000224 EFTA00008745 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 3 Q. Are you currently part of a federal task force? A. Yes. Q. What task force? A. The Child Exploitation and Human Trafficking Task Force with the FBI. Q. What is your title on the task force? A. Task force officer. Q. How long have you been a task force officer with the FBI? A. Since about 2017. Q. Generally, what are your duties and responsibilities on the task force? A. We address cases of child sex-trafficking, adult sex-trafficking, child pornography, and child enticement. Q. Over the last, approximately, three years have you been involved in an investigation into Jeffrey Epstein and his associates, including an individual named Ghislaine Maxwell? A. Yes. Q. During your investigation have you spoken with other people, including other law enforcement officers? A. Yes. Q• Have you reviewed reports and documents prepared by others, and transcripts of testimony in other court and grand jury proceedings? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000225 EFTA00008746 03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. Will your testimony today be based in part on those conversations and documents that you have reviewed? A. Yes. MS. Ladies and gentlemen, some of the testimony you are going to hear from Detective will include hearsay. That means he is not going to testify only from his own personal observations, he will also be testifying about what other people have told him and what he has read in documents. Hearsay evidence, as you know, is admissible and proper in these proceedings, and you are permitted to rely on it in determining whether there is probable cause to indict the defendant, but if you want to hear testimony from other witnesses, or see particular documents, please let me know, and I will make my best efforts to bring those before you. BY MS. Q. Detective over the course of your investigation has another member of the FBI task force you're a part of testified before a different grand jury about the facts of this case? A. Yes. Q. I'd like to ask you to please pick up what should be in front of you and marked as Grand Jury Exhibit 3. Do FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000226 EFTA00008747 03/29/2021 1 9 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you recognize that? A. Yes. Q. Is this document a fair and accurate transcript of testimony given by FBI Special Agent before a different grand jury, on June 29, 2020? A. Yes. Q. I'd like to read back a portion of this transcript. We will start at Page 2, Line 18. I will read the questions, you read the answers. Q. "Where do you currently work?" A. "The Federal Bureau of Investigation." Q. "What is your title?" A. "Special agent." Q. "How long have you worked as a special agent?" A. "About three years now." Q. "Where are you currently assigned?" A. "I work on the Violent Crimes Against Children's Squad." Q. "What are your duties and responsibilities as - special agent on that squad?" A. "We investigate crimes that have to do with child sexual abuse material, sextortion, exploitation, and enticement of minors, sex-trafficking." MS. You can stop there. I'll now jump to Page 4, line 13. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000227 EFTA00008748 03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. Q. "Have you participated in an investigation of Ghislaine Maxwell?" A. "Yes, I have." Q. "Have you spoken to other people, including other law enforcement officers about this investigation?" A. "Yes." Q. "Have you reviewed reports and documents prepared by others regarding this case?" A. "Yes." Q. "Is your testimony today based in part on those conversations with other law enforcement officers and documents that you have reviewed?" A. "Yes." MS. Stepping out of the read back. At this point the AUSA provided the same hearsay instruction to the grand jury, at that time, as I just provided to you all. So that instruction applies with respect to Detective testimony the same way it applies to testimony. We can now go down to Page 5, line 17. BY MS. Q. we've placed on the desk in front of you a PowerPoint that is Grand Jury Exhibit 2 which we're entering into the record. Do you recognize this?" FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_000002.28 EFTA00008749 03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. "Yes." Q. "What is it?" A. "It's a PowerPoint presentation to assist in testifying today." Q. "Did you participate in preparing this Exhibit in connection with your testimony today?" A. "Yes, I did." Q. "If you could please turn to the first slide. Who are the individuals depicted in these photographs?" A. "The picture on the left is Ghislaine Maxwell, and the picture on the right is Jeffrey Epstein with Ghislaine Maxwell." Q. "Based on your participation in this investigation and your review of public source materials, have Maxwell and Epstein been photographed together many times over the years?" A. "Yes." Q. "Based on your participation in this investigation and your review of public materials, where is Maxwell from?" A. "Maxwell was born in France, she grew up in United Kingdom, was educated in Oxford and is from a wealthy family." Q. "Is she a citizen of France, the United Kingdom, and the United States?" A. "Yes." FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000229 EFTA00008750 03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. "How old is she currently?" A. "Fifty-eight." Q. "Has the FBI investigated Maxwell and Epstein' : conduct with minors during the 1990s?" A. "Yes." Q. "Generally speaking, what have you learned about the relationship between Maxwell and Epstein during the 1990s?" A. "Epstein and Maxwell had a romantic relationship, and she also worked for him; managing his homes, hiring and firing individuals." Q. "During that time period, was she one of his closest associates?" A. "Yes." Q. "During the course of this investigation have you learned where Epstein maintained properties in the 1990s?" A. "Yes." Q. "Where did he maintain properties?" A. "New York, Palm Beach, and New Mexico." Q. "Turning to the next slide, did he maintain an address in Manhattan located at 9 East 71st Street?" A. "Yes." Q. "Does this slide fairly and accurately depict that residence?" A. "Yes." FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000230 EFTA00008751 03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4• "Can you please describe that property for the grand jury?" A. "It's a seven -story home. It's located near Central Park. It's reportedly the largest residence in Manhattan." Q. "Based on your participation in this investigation, did that house include a room that was used as a massage room?" A. "Yes, it did." Q. "All right. We'll talk more about that later but for now, moving on to the other properties. Did he maintain an address in Palm Beach, Florida, located at 358 El Brillo Way?" A. "Yes." Q. "Turning to the next slide. Does this slide fairly and accurately depict the residence?" A. "Yes, it does." Q. "Could you please describe that property for the grand jury?" A. "It's a water -front estate. It has an in-ground pool and a detached dwelling, or pool house, on the property as well." Q. "Aside -- and from your participation in this investigation and your review of other materials, did that house include a room that was used as a massage room?" FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNI_GLSDNYJX*Min31 EFTA00008752 03/29/2021 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. "Yes." "Turning to the next property. Did Epstein also own a ranch in New Mexico?" A. "Yes, he did." Q. "And turning to the next slide, was that a property located at 49 Zorro Ranch Road in Stanley, New Mexico?" A. "Yes." 4. "Looking at the photograph on this slide does this accurately depict that property?" A. "Yes, it does." Q. "And we've been talking about the properties that Epstein owned during this time period. Did he also own a private jet?" A. 4• "Yes." "Is it fair to say that he was a multi -millionaire during this time period? A. "Yes." Q. "During the 1990s did Epstein have an employee, ■ who ran his house in Palm Beach?" A. "Yes, he did." Q. "What was his job?" A. "His job was making sure that everything in the house ran smoothly. He referred -- he described that Epstein liked to have his house run like a five-star hotel; FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000232 EFTA00008753 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 11 that everything had to be in its proper place. So he was responsible for managing that." Q. "Have you interviewed A. "Yes." Q. "How many times?" A. "Twice." Q. "And is the information you're about to provide based on your interviews with A. "Yes." Q. "Did begin working for Epstein in the early 1990s?" A. "Yes, he did." Q. "At the time came to work for Epstein in Palm Beach, was Epstein dating Ghislaine Maxwell at that point?" A. "Not at that time." 4• "Was it a few years before Epstein began dating Maxwell after started working there?" A. "Yes." MS. I'm going to step out of the read back. It sounds like the grand jurors are having difficulty hearing. Are you having difficulty hearing me, the witness, or both? GRAND JURORS. The witness. MS. So Detective I'm going to ask FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNI_GLSDNY_0O0OM3 EFTA00008754 03/29/2021 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you to please keep your voice up. Try to shout into the microphone. Can you pull the microphone toward you? Lift it and pull it all the way up to you? Thank you. We left off reading at Page 10, line 12. BY MS. Q. "From what told you, how did work change once Maxwell arrived on the scene?" A. ''I'll' described Epstein as being of more pleasant to work with prior to Maxwell coming into the picture. Once she came into the picture, he said things became more secretive. He wasn't allowed to be in the room with guests, wasn't allowed to talk with them, associate with them; it became a different environment." MS. Detective I'm going to ask you to take the microphone and try to put it right under where your mouth would be when you're reading because as you're looking down, you're moving your mouth away from the microphone. Thank you. Picking back up at Page 10, line 20. BY MS. Q. "You talked about some of the rules that were placed, changing. Were there any rule changes about eye contact once Maxwell began staying at the Palm Beach house?" A. "Yes. wasn't allowed to make eye contact with Epstein and others." FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000234 EFTA00008755 03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. We're going to jump now to Page 11, Line 6. BY MS. Q. "Shifting gears. I want to talk to you about someone else that you've interviewed during this investigation. During the course of this investigation, have you participated in interviews with an individual named A. "Yes." Q. "So for these purposes, I'm just going to refer t her as . Is that okay?" A. "Yes." Q. "How many times have you interviewed ?" A. "Approximately five times." Q. "If you could please just page through the next two slides in front of you? Are these photographs of II A. "Yes." Q. "Is it your understanding that these photographs depict from approximately ages 13 to approximately 17?" A. "Yes, it does." 4• "Okay. Let's take a look at some of those photographs. I'm going to publish the next slide. 's date of birth FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000235 EFTA00008756 03/29/2021 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. "Yes." Q. "Are these two photographs of ?" A. "Yes, they are." Q. "If you could turn to the second slide of photographs, are these also photographs of A. "Yes." Q. ?It "Based on your participation in this investigation and your interviews with , where was she living when she was approximately 14 years old?" A. "She was living in Palm Beach, Florida." Q. "Who was she living with when she was 14?" A. "Her mother and her siblings." Q. "What was her whole life like at that time?" A. "At that time her father had passed away the year prior, so the family was struggling financially and having some difficulties." Q. "What did 's father do before he passed away? What was his profession?" A. "He was involved in Q. "Was .' involved in ?" A. "Yes, she was." Q. "Were her siblings?" A. "Yes." Q. "What kinds of were they involved in?" FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000236 EFTA00008757 03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. "Singing. She was a singer." Q. "Like, what kind of singer?" A. "Opera." Q. "In the summer of 1994, how old was A. "She was 13 going on 14." Q. "You testified earlier that her birthday was in . So did she turn 14 in A. "Yes." Q. "What did she do that summer?" A. "She attended an arts camp at Interlochen Center for the Arts." Q. "And is Interlochen summer arts program located in Michigan?" A. "Yes." Q. "Did meet Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell that summer?" A. "Yes, she did." Q. "Did she meet them at summer camp?" A. "Yes." Q. "What did she tell you about that?" A. "She said that she was sitting at a picnic table with friends when Epstein and Maxwell walked by. They stopped to talk to her, engaged her in conversation, asked her if she liked her classes; her teachers. During that conversation she found out that she was also from Palm Beach FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000237 EFTA00008758 03/29/2021 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and that he said he gives scholarships to students." Q. "How did they leave the conversation? Was there any contact information exchanged?" A. "They asked for Q. 's phone number." "As part of your investigation have you attempted to gather records to corroborate that , Maxwell, and Epstein were all at that summer camp that summer?" A. "Yes." Q. "If you could turn to the next slide, please. Have you obtained records from Interlochen for the summer of 1994?" A. "Yes." Q. "And what are we looking at on this slide?" A. "This shows who -- some of the individuals that were there, were present for that camp in '94. On here is Q. If "And have you investigated whether Maxwell and Epstein were also at Interlochen that summer of 1994 as described?" A. "Yes." Q. "Based on your review of records from Interlochen, what is your understanding of Epstein's relationship with Interlochen?" A. "My understanding was that he was a donor to the school." FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNLGUDNYJX000238 EFTA00008759 03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. "Did he make any substantial donations?" A. "He did." Q. "Did he donate a lodge to the camp in the summer of 1994?" A. "Yes, he did." Q. "Did he have a long-standing relationship as a donor to Interlochen?" A. "Yes." Q. "Turning to the next slide. Is this an excerpt of a letter from Interlochen to Epstein?" A. "Yes, it is." Q. "And does this letter thank Epstein for donating a scholarship lodge?" A. "Yes." Q. "Does it invite Epstein to visit in August of 1994?" A. "Yes." Q. "In 1994 did Epstein have a private jet?" A. "Yes, he did." Q. "Have you obtained the flight logs for that -iet?" A. "Yes." Q. "Do those logs include passenger lists and the airport code for the airports the plane flew into and out of?" A. "Yes." FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000239 EFTA00008760 03/29/2021 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. "Turning to the next slide. Is this a page of the flight logs that you reviewed?" A. "Yes." Q. "And on this excerpt of the flight logs, where the red arrow is, is that a log entry showing an August 18, 1994 flight to an airport with the airport code TBC?" A. "Yes." Q. "Is TBC the airport code for Cherry Capitol Airport in Traverse City, Michigan?" A. "Yes, it is." Q. "About how far is that airport from Interlochen by car?" A. "About 25 minutes, give or take." Q. "And who were the listed passengers on this flight?" A. "Jeffrey Epstein, (ph), and (ph)." Q. "Turning to the next slide. Is it the same excerpt just with a different arrow?" A. "Yes." Q. "Okay. So a few lines down is there a flight out of Traverse City just two days later, on August 20, 1994?" A. "Yes." Q. "And do the passengers listed in the flight out of Traverse City include the initials GM?" FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_0O00O24O EFTA00008761 03/29/2021 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. "Yes, they do." Q. "Are those Ghislaine Maxwell's initials?" A. "Yes." Q. "Have you obtained any records from Interlochen to indicate that Maxwell was at Interlochen in 1994?" A. "Yes." Q. "If we could turn to the next slide. Can you please explain for the grand jury what we're looking at on this slide?" A. "This was a letter from Interlochen explaining -- addressed to Maxwell -- telling her that they had found an envelope in the lodge that they had been staying." Q. "All right. We were talking a few minutes ago about how described meeting Maxwell and Epstein at summer camp and you testified that she provided them with her phone number. Did explain to you whether or not she had any contact with Epstein or Maxwell after she returned home to Palm Beach?" A. "Yes." Q. "When was the next time that happened?" A. "Shortly thereafter." Q. "And how did that occur?" A. "She was invited to his house, so her and her mother went to Epstein's house to visit." FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNYJNMONAI EFTA00008762 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 20 Q. "What did tell you about that visit to Epstein's house with her mother?" A. "She said it was -- wait, can you rephrase that?" Q. "Of course. Did go to the house by herself or with her mother?" A. "With her mother." Q. "Okay. When they went to the house what did they do there?" A. "They had tea." Q. "Who was there when they had tea at the house?" A. "Epstein and Maxwell." Q. "What did they discuss as they had tea?" A. "They just talked about her life and, you know, what she wanted to do." Q. "Did Epstein make any offers?" A. "He said that he gives scholarships; he likes to mentor people." Q. "How did 's mother react when Epstein said this?" A. "She was happy for her daughter and often times referred to Epstein as 's godfather." Q. "After that occasion when they went over to the house, thereafter, did subsequently begin regularly spending time with Maxwell and Epstein at Epstein's house in Palm Beach?" FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000242 EFTA00008763 03/29/2021 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14?" A. "Yes." Q. A. 4• "Did that start when she was approximately age "Yes." "Did it continue until she was about age 17?" A. "Yes, it did." Q. "And during those years does she regularly go over to Epstein's house in Palm Beach and spend time with Maxwell and Epstein?" A. "Yes." Q. "What happened in the summer of 1997 when was 17, about to turn 18?" A. "She moved to New York City." Q. "Why did she move to New York City?" A. "She wanted to pursue a career in acting and modeling." Q. "We'll talk about that in a moment, but for now, I want to focus on the years you talked about, in Palm Beach, from the ages 14 to 17, when would regularly go to Epstein's house. In the beginning, in the first few months when she went there, what kinds of things did she do when she would visit the house when Maxwell and Epstein were there?" A. "They'd hang out by the pool. He -- they would take her to the movies, take her shopping. She described FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GUDNYJNMONA3 EFTA00008764 03/29/2021 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that behavior as grooming." Q. "When you say grooming, did she explain what she meant by that?" A. "She meant that they were building a relationship with her, giving her things, taking her places, and then usually when the grooming happens, an offender will -- once they gain that trust -- they will make their relationship turn sexual." Q. "Now you testified just a moment ago that described to you that she felt at this time period they were grooming her, is that right?" A. "Yes." Q. "Is that something that she realized at the time when she was 14, or is that something she's described to you now?" A. "Something she's described now. She didn't realize that at the time." Q. "So we'll talk a little bit more about grooming in a moment, but just to give context, are you familiar with the term grooming based on your experience investigating crimes involving sexual exploitation of minors?" A. "Yes." Q. "Generally speaking, you were touching on this a moment ago, but if you could just explain it in full, what is grooming?" FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000244 EFTA00008765 03/29/2021 23 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. "Grooming is when someone builds a relationship with a child. They will find a vulnerability or a need and then they work on gaining that child's trust. And then often times gaining a parent's trust. Once they have that trust, they show that in ways that they can care about them; like giving them gifts and promises. And then once that's established, they then turn the relationship sexual; often times, making sexual comments and normalizing the behavior." Q. "Now during these visits that you've been describing, that told you about, did say whether Epstein ever gave her anything?" A. "Yes, she did." Q. "What did he give her?" A. "He gave her cash. Sometimes he'd tell her to give the cash to her mom because he knew that they needed it. He paid for her voice lessons as well." Q. "Now you were describing how has characterized these visits now, but based on your conversations with her, at the time did she feel that these visits were strange at all?" A. "She thought they were strange, but Maxwell normalized it for her. She was like a cool, older sister and made comments like, this is what grownups do." Q. "You used the phrase cool, older sister. Is that a phrase that used to describe how she felt about FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_0(100NA5 EFTA00008766 03/29/2021 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Maxwell at the time, and what Maxwell was like?" A. "Yes. Those are her words." Q. "Did there come a time -- these visits -- saw Maxwell topless by the pool?" A. "Yes." Q. "What did she tell you about that?" A. "She was a little taken back, but Maxwell just acted normal." Q. "Did tell you about an incident several months into this arrangement when she was alone with Epstein in the pool house?" A. "Yes." Q. "And when they were alone together, did Epstein ask what she wanted to do with her life?" A. "He did." Q. "What did she say?" A. "She said she wanted to be an actress and n model." Q. "How did Epstein respond?" A. "He told her that he was best friends with the owner of Victoria's Secret. Told her that she would have to have photographs taken and that she had to be comfortable in her underwear and not be a prude. When she was asked what she meant by that, he pulled her into his lap and masturbated." FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000246 EFTA00008767 03/29/2021 95 1 Q• "What was her reaction?" 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. "She felt paralyzed. She froze." Q. "After this incident did 's encounters with Epstein begin to include sexual contact?" A. "Yes." Q. "Over time did the sexual abuse escalate?" A. "It did." Q. "From what she's described to you, did the abuse include Epstein digitally penetrating A. "Yes." Q. "Did it include Epstein using a vibrator on her?" A. "Yes." Q. "Did she describe to you that there were times when Epstein would direct to massage him while he masturbated?" A. "Yes." Q. "Did explain to you what her memories are like of the abuse?" A. "Yes." Q. "What did she say about that?" A. "She said that it happened so often that it al kind it all runs together for her. That it's hard to separate out some of the different instances of abuse." Q. "You were describing how explained to you that the abuse began. Did that occur, based on what FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNLGUDNY_00000247 EFTA00008768 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 26 told you, within the first year that she met Epstein and Maxwell?" A. "Yes." Q. "Now did also describe to you that once this abuse started Epstein would also bring her into his massage room in his house?" A. "Yes." Q. "And were there times, where he did this, where there were other women present, including Maxwell?" A. "Yes." Q. "Was abused during those episodes?" A. "Yes, she was." Q. "During these group encounters what were and the adult women wearing?" A. "They were usually just in their underwear." Q. "Once they were all in the massage room, how would these episodes generally start?" A. "They would generally start with one of the girls massaging Epstein. was usually massaging his feet. Maxwell was kind of teasing the other girls. She'd grab the girl's breasts, and she would direct the girls on what to do." Q. "When these episodes would start, in general, was Epstein generally lying face down on the massage table?" A. "Yes." FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNI_GLSDNY_NMOMW8 EFTA00008769 03/29/2021 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. "What would happen as things progressed, generally speaking, from what she described to you?" A. "When Epstein would decide he was kind of done with the regular massage, he would turn over on his back, and he'd grab whichever girl he wanted to, either, touch him or whatever girl he wanted to touch." Q. "Did these episodes include sex acts that over time, in various instances, included Epstein masturbating, Epstein receiving oral sex, and Epstein engaging in intercourse?" A. "Yes." Q. "You were describing for a moment what tos, you about Maxwell's role during these group encounters. Would Maxwell sometimes guide the women and give instructions about what to do?" A. "Yes, she would." Q. "What would typically do during these episodes?" A. "She would try not to look at Maxwell because she gave off that sister -vibe, so it felt weird for her. She would try to be invisible in the room so they would ignore her as much as possible." Q. "In the beginning, when 's approximately 16 or 15, would she generally begin by just massaging Epstein's feet?" FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000249 EFTA00008770 03/29/2021 2R 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. "Yes." Q. "Is that something she was told to do?" A. "Yes." Q. "Did she -- you mentioned that she tried to be invisible -- was -- I believe that was your testimony?" A. "Yes." Q. "And over time has she described to you that over time she believed she became more involved in the sexual activity which varied in each encounter?" A. "Yes." Q. "Were there times let me rephrase that. How did -- you touched on this for a moment, but just to be clear -- how did describe Maxwell's attitude during these incidents?" A. "It was very casual; she acted like this was normal. She gave off that vibe to her and yeah." Q. "Did that make her feel more comfortable with what was happening?" A. "It did." Q. "Was sometimes fully nude during these episodes?" A. "Yes." Q. "And during these episodes did the abuse include Epstein touching 's breasts?" A. "Yes." FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000250 EFTA00008771 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 29 Q. "Did it include directing to touch Epstein's genitals?" A. "Yes." Q. "Beginning when 's approximately 14, does she begin to travel with Epstein and Maxwell to New York City on occasion?" A. "Yes, she did." Q. "Was that to the property you testified about earlier; the townhouse on the upper -east side?" A. "Yes." Q. "When traveled to New York City, did she stay in Epstein's townhouse in New York City? A. "Yes, she did." Q. "Did she recall that Maxwell and Epstein took her shopping on one of her early trips to New York City?" A. "Yes." Q. "Did she remember them buying her anything?" A. "She recalled them buying her white cotton underwear. Her description was that they were like little girl's underwear." Q. "From ages 14 to 17 did Epstein ask to periodically fly to New York for weekends at that townhouse in New York?" A. "I'm sorry, say it again?" Q. "You testified that she began travelling to FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNI_GLSDNYJX*Min51 EFTA00008772 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 30 New York City at age 14. Did she then periodically travel to New York City, in a similar manner, from ages 14 to 17?" A. "Yes." Q. "Were there times, when she travelled on those trips, when she flew on Epstein's private jet?" A. "Yes." Q. "Did she also sometimes fly commercially?" A. "Yes, she did." Q. "Was Maxwell sometimes present on the trips to New York?" A. "Yes." Q. "You testified earlier that was sexually abused in Palm Beach. Did she describe to you that she was also sexually abused on these trips to New York?" A. "Yes, she did." Q. "Did Maxwell encourage to go on these trips?" A. "Yes." Q. "What does -- what did tell you about her memory of how these trips were arranged?" A. "She recalled that Maxwell was usually the one that would schedule her flights. If she was flying commercially she would schedule the flights, sometimes calling her mother to schedule." Q. "Was that the general impression of how they were FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNI_GLSDNY_NX0Y252 EFTA00008773 03/29/2021 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 arranged?" A. "Yes." Q. "In addition to the trips to New York City you just described, did also remember travelling, at least once, to Epstein's ranch in New Mexico?" A. "Yes, she did." Q. "Does she remember whether or not she was sexually abused in New Mexico?" A. "She couldn't recall. She couldn't remember." Q. "In general, how would get to the airport in Florida when she would fly on Epstein's jet; what did she describe to you?" A. "Usually a driver; one of Epstein's drivers would pick her up from her house and take her to the airport." Q. "Now you testified earlier that you reviewed flight records for Epstein's private jet, is that correct?" A. "Yes." Q. "And have you reviewed records from the 1990s to see if there -- whether there's a person named listed on the records?" A. "Yes." Q. "Turning to the next slide. Is this an excerpt from those records?" A. "Yes, it is." Q. "And does the red arrow point to does the red FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNLGUDNY_00000253 EFTA00008774 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 arrow point to a November 11th, 1996 flight?" A. "Yes, it does." Q. "And does this say -- does this flight log reflect that it was a flight from Palm Beach, Florida to Teterboro, New Jersey?" A. Q. "Yes." "Is there a private airfield in Teterboro, New Jersey?" A. "Yes, there is." Q. "What's it called?" A. "Teterboro Airport." ■ Q. "Are the passengers listed on this entry JE?" A. "Yes." Q. "Are the -- do the entries also include (ph) plus friend, Jeff Shamf's (ph), family, (ph), (ph), (ph), and ?" A. "Yes." Q. "Was , based on your awareness of 's date of birth and the date of this flight, was on the date of this flight?" A. "Yes, she was." Q. "Turning to the next slide. You testified earlier about Teterboro Airport. What are we looking at on this slide?" A. "This is directions from Teterboro Airport to FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_0O00O254 EFTA00008775 03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Epstein's residence here in Manhattan." Q. "So based on your review of this map, if someone were to fly into Teterboro and travel to New York City, would they -- would the most natural route be to travel to Teterboro Airport and crossing into New York through Manhattan?" A. "Yes." Q. "Turning to the next slide. Is this also an excerpt from the flight records that you've reviewed?" A. "Yes, it is." Q. "And does this show a May 9, 1997 flight from Teterboro, New Jersey to Santa Fe, New Mexico?" A. "Yes, it does." Q. "And are the passengers listed on this log JE, GM, and ? II A. "Yes." Q. "Based on your knowledge of 's birthdate and the date of this flight, would have been 16 on the date of this flight?" A. "Yes, she would have been." Q. "Turning to the next flight -- slide. Is this also an excerpt from the flight records?" A. "Yes." Q. "And does the red arrow point to a flight entry on May 3, 1998?" FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNLGUDNY_00000255 EFTA00008776 03/29/2021 34 A. "Yes, it does." 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. "Based on the airport codes, did this reflect that there is a flight on that date from Palm Beach, Florida to Teterboro, New Jersey?" A. "Yes." Q. "And are the passengers listed on this log JE, GM, ET, (ph), , Glenn (ph), A. "Yes." (ph) ?" (ph), (ph), Manny Q. "Based on your knowledge of 's birthday and the date of this flight, would date?" A. "Yes." Q. have been 17 on this "Am I correct that you testified earlier that in addition to sometimes flying on Epstein's private jet, she also travelled on commercial airlines, is that right?" A. "Yes, it is." Q. "Based on your review of these flight logs, does every flight entry list the name of every single passenger; or are there sometime when a passenger is noted female?" A. "There's times where a passenger is just noted female." Q. "I'm going to walk -- talk to you about two examples of that. Turning ahead two slides. Looking at Slide 18, does this reflect a January 3rd, 1995 flight where FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDN Y_00000256 EFTA00008777 03/29/2021 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the flight log says JE, two females?" A. "Yes, it does." Q. "And do the two entries below, also, just list female next to the initials JE?" A. "Yes, they do." Q. "Turning to the next slide, Slide 19. Is this another example of an entry like that; focusing on the entry on February 12, 1995?" A. "Yes." Q. "Does that entry also say, female?" A. "Yes, it does." Q. "Now, you testified that sometimes flew on commercial airlines and that arrangements for her travel were made for her to fly commercially for these trips, is that right?" A. "Yes." Q. "Have you been able to obtain commercial flight records?" A. "We tried. We were not able to obtain those records." Q. "Why is that?" A. "Airlines do not keep records past a certain year." Q. "Does recall group sexualized massages involving Epstein and Maxwell, in both the New York and FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000257 EFTA00008778 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 36 Florida residences, during the time period we've been talking about?" A. "Yes." Q. "You testified earlier about the time that Epstein and Maxwell would spend together and the activities that they were involved in. During this time period did have occasions to talk with Maxwell?" A. "She -- I'm sorry, can you ask the question again?" Q. "During the beginning when she was 14, when she began spending time with Epstein and Maxwell, and through the years, did often have conversations with Maxwell about her life?" A. "Yes." Q. "Did they talk about that often?" A. "They did." Q. "Did Maxwell ask about her family, her classes, and other aspects of her life?" A. "Yes, she did." Q. "You testified earlier, just before she turned 18, moved to New York City, is that right?" A. "Yes." Q. "Did she go to school there in New York City her senior year?" A. "Yes, she did." FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNYJKONn58 EFTA00008779 03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. "What school did she go to?" A. "She went to the Q. "What is the A. "They cater to individuals who want to pursue careers in the arts." Q. "Have you reviewed records from the VI A. "Yes." Q. "If you could turn to Slide 17. Can you please explain for the grand jury what we're looking at here?" A. "This is an excerpt from 's application to the On it is listed, who is financially responsible for her, and that is Jeffrey Epstein." Q. "From what told you did Maxwell encourage to accept Epstein's financial help?" A. "Yes." Q. "When moved to New York City who was she living with?" A. "She lived with her mother and her brother in -- apartment." Q. "Did Epstein help pay for her rent?" A. "He did." Q. "During that year, her senior year of high school, when she was in New York City, did remain in contact FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_0O00O259 EFTA00008780 03/29/2021 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with Epstein?" A. "Yes." Q• "What was the nature of their contact like during that time period?" her." A. "During this time he was still sexually abusing Q. "Did that continue to occur at his townhouse in Manhattan that year?" A. "Yes, it did." Q. "What happened at the end of her senior year of high school?" A. "She moved to Los Angeles to pursue a career in acting." Q. "Did she get a job as an actress when she turned 18?" A. "She did." Q. "Has lived in Los Angeles and worked as an actress on television ever since then?" A. "Yes." Q. "After she moved to Los Angeles, did she continue being in touch with Epstein?" A. "For a short period of time." Q. "Did she ultimately break contact with him?' A. "Yes, she did." Q. "Is currently pursuing a civil lawsuit FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000260 EFTA00008781 03/29/2021 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 against Maxwell and Epstein's estate?" A. "Yes." Q. "Have you talked with about whether, when she was a teenage girl and all of this was happening, whether she told anyone that she was being sexually abused?" A. "Yes. She said she didn't tell anyone. She felt like she couldn't. She -- the -- nothing was talked about outside of that room, so it made it so that she couldn't talk about it. And then she also -- her mother is Middle Eastern, and her mother raised her that women are supposed to do what they're told even if someone is beating you. When she was 13 and her father passed, she, she went to a guidance counselor at school to talk about it, and her mother found out about it and smacked her. She felt like she couldn't talk to anyone about it." Q. "Did 's mother encourage her to accept Epstein's financial assistance?" A. "Yes, she did." Q. "Have you become aware that in 2005 police officers from the Palm Beach Police Department executed search warrant at Epstein's house at the El Brillo Way address in Palm Beach?" A. "Yes." Q. "Have you reviewed some of the materials seized during the search?" FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNI_GLSDNYJX000261 EFTA00008782 03/29/2021 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. "Yes." Q. "Did they find massage tables and sex toys?" A. "Yes, they did." Q. "Did they find any photographs of A. "Yes." Q. "Was one of the photographs signed by A. "Yes, it was." Q. "Did it say, A. "Yes." Q. "During your interviews with , did tell you how she felt about Epstein and Maxwell in the 90s when she was a young girl?" A. "She did. She expressed that she felt like they loved her. She felt they were her family; that they supported her, and that they felt like -- she was made to feel that she was needed to be grateful to them." Q. "Okay. Did she tell you that she felt like they were trying to help her?" A. "Yes." Q. "Have you talked with about how she feels about this now?" A. "Yes." Q. "What was 's demeanor like when she described to you what Epstein and Maxwell had done to her?" FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000262 EFTA00008783 03/29/2021 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. "She was upset. She recognized that now. It's affected her life to a great degree. She's struggled in relationships with opening up to people and trusting people; both personal and professional relationships." Q. "Did she tell you that she struggled to tell anyone what had happened to her for most of her adulthood?" A. "Yes." Q. "When was the first time you interviewed A. "Last fall." Q. "Was that the first time she ever reported this to law enforcement?" A. "Yes, it was." Q. "Now you testified earlier about your interviews with who worked at Epstein's Palm Beach house. Did he remember a girl named coming to the house during that time?" A. "Yes, he did." Q. "Did he recall , Maxwell, and Epstein meeting in the Palm Beach house together?" A. "Yes." Q. "What was his understanding of why there?" A. "He thought that Epstein was helping her. That's what Epstein had told him, and had told him that Epstein was helping her." FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNLGUDNYJX0000263 EFTA00008784 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 42 Q. "Did he ever observe Epstein interacting with physically?" A. "Yes." Q. "What did he see?" A. "He saw Epstein kiss 's cheek and pat her on the bottom." Q. "Did he have any knowledge about what was happening with Epstein or Maxwell when he wasn't present?" A. "He didn't." Q. "Did ever recall picking up from her house?" A. "Yes." Q. "And when he would pick her up from her house, would he then bring her back to the Palm Beach house?" A. "Yes." Q. "Did he remember who, in general, would tell him to pick up from her house?" A. "Maxwell would be the one to tell him to pick her up." Q. "Did he recall ever driving to the movies?" A. "Yes." Q. "What did he tell you about that?" A. "That would usually be Epstein, Maxwell, and ; they would go to the movies, and it would usually be late at night." FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000264 EFTA00008785 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 43 Q. "Did he tell you about what his memory was about how old was?" A. "He said she was young, and that he knew that because he had picked her up from school, and that he knew she was too young to drive." Q. "Switching gears. I want to talk to you about a different aspect of your interviews with Based on what he told about his job duties, were there ever times where he would have to clean Epstein's massage room?" A. "Yes." Q. "What did he tell you about that?" A. "He said that he found sex toys in the massage room, and he had to wash them afterwards." Q. "Aside from those experiences, was he aware it there were any sex toys in the house?" A. "Yes. There was a basket of sex toys that were kept in Maxwell's closet." Q. "Did stop working for Epstein in approximately 2002?" A. "Yes." Q. "Was he told that he was being replaced?" A. "Yes." Q. "And was he generally aware that the person who replaced him was much younger?" A. "Yes." FREE