UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

Page UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO.: 08-CIV-80119-MARRA/JOHNSON JANE DOE NO. 2, Plaintiff, -vs- JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Defendant. VOLUME I OF II Related cases: 08-80232, 08-08380, 08-80381, 08-80994, 08-80993, 08-80811, 08-80893, 09-80469, 09-80591, 09-80656, 09-80802, 09-81092 / / VIDEO-CONFERENCED AND VIDEOTAPED COMPULSORY MEDICAL EVALUATION OF JANE DOE NO. 5 Friday, November 20, 2009 9:18 - 6:55 p.m. 250 Australian Avenue Suite 1500 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Reported By: Cynthia Hopkins, RPR, FPR Notary Public, State of Florida Prose Court Reporting Services PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723310 Page 2 Page 4 1 APPEARANCES: 2 On behalf of the Plaintiff 3 JESSICA D. ARBOUR, ESQUIRE MERMELSTEIN &14OROWITZ, PA. 4 18205 Biscayne Boulevard Suite 2218 6 7 8 9 ALSO PRESENT: 10 11 12 Pha e: E-mail: D. Paralegal, Burman, Crftton, Luther & Coleman 13 14 Sextet Quimby, Videographer Visual Evidence, Incorporated 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 A. Okay. 2 Q. This is probably going to be an all-day 3 thing. This is not an endurance test. So, at any 4 time you need to take a break, want to get a 5 cigarette smoke, use the restroom, get some water? 6 A. Okay? 7 Q. It's not a problem. Just let me know. 8 A. Okay. 9 Q. And we'll stop the tape. The tape 10 switches over about every two hours, so we kind of 11 have little built-in breaks any way. 12 A. Yeah, she told me that 13 Q. Pm a, fin a psychiatrist I have been 14 asked to do what they call an independent medical 15 examination. This is in the context of the lawsuit 16 that's going on. I think you're aware of that. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Usually when you see a doctor, there is a 19 notion of confidentiality, that anything you say to 2 0 the doctor will stay in the room and not be reported 21 others. Since this is being done for the court, 22 anything you tell me may end up in my report. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. A copy of my report will go to both 25 attorneys, and the judge may or may not see it. I, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 3 EXAMINATION DR. HALL Thank you. JANE DOE NO. 5: I sign here? DR HALL: Yes, please. JANE DOE NO. 5: Is that it for this one? DR. HALL: Yep. That one is a little redundant, but the rest of them there is differences. (Interruption at the door.) DR. HALL: Yes. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Sorry to interrupt, Doctor. Could you move the mic a little bit closer? DR HALL: You don't have to — the last one doesn't apply. JANE DOE NO. 5: Yeah. BY DR. HALL: Q. Now, live introduced myself a little bit before the depo got started and I overheard your lawyer talking about speak slowly, clearly -- A. Yes. Q. — because it's being transcribed. So, appreciate that. If you have any questions at any time, feel free to ask me. Page 5 1 you know, some of the mechanics I don't fully 2 understand. 3 A. Okay. 4 Q. But it's not confidential. 5 A. Yeah, I understand that. 6 Q. Also usually when you see a doctor, there 7 is the assumption that the doctor is going to treat 8 you. I'm not going to be providing treatment 9 recommendations. 10 A. Yeah. 11 Q. Or follow-up, whatever, yeah? 12 A. Yeah. 13 Q. But I just want you to be aware of that 14 before we start. 15 A. Okay. Understand. 16 Q. Do you have any questions, concerns, 17 comments? 18 A. No. 19 Q. No. Okay. How this works is we're going 20 to kind of start, get some background information, 21 kind of go through a lot of areas during the course 22 of the day. And I will talk to you specifically 23 about the allegations of the episode of Mr. Epstein. 24 And we'll have some testing at the end. 25 A. Oka'. 2 (Pages 2 to 5) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723311 Page 6 Page 8 1 Q. All right. Usually around noon or I NW 2 break for lunch and then come back 3 A. Okay. . 4 Q. With all that said, could you tell me your 5 name, please? 6 A. Jane Doe No. 5. 7 Q. Okay. When you were born? A. October 27th, 1986. 9 Q. Okay. Where were you born? 10 A. West Palm Beach. 11 Q. Okay. Any problems, complications, 12 problems with your birth that you're aware of? 13 A. No. 14 Q. So, not born early, born late? 15 A. I was bom late, actually, yes. 16 Q. Do you know how late? 17 A. I was supposed to be born October 15th on my 18 father's birthday. 19 Q. Okay. So it looks like roughly two weeks? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. Did they have to induce your mom 22 into labor or did it — 23 A. No, she went into labor. 24 Q. She went. Okay. Did you need to spend 25 any additional time in the hospital afterwards, 1 A. No. 2 Q. Tell me about your family a little bit 3 A. Basically my mother and Mier got married, 4 you know. I was born. And they got divorced. I was 5 around the age of three. It's not accurate, but around 6 the age of three. 7 Q. And it's okay to ballpark in general. 8 A. Yeah,1 will be. You will notice I'm so 9 horrible with memory like time frames. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. I'm throwing them out. 12 Q. If I need something a little more 13 specific- 14 A. I will by to put, yeah — 15 Q. Put it together. 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. And if you are kind of ballparkinp„ just 18 let me know it's arotmd this or -- 19 A. Twill. Trust me. I'm horrible. 20 Q. Okay. So divorced around age duce? 21 A. Yes. She met my stepfather, which is 22 III They dated for a while. That's basically -- he's 23 been with her fora long time. They are still together 24 today. I moved to Fort Lauderdale with them. You know, 25 they got married at some point. I don't honestly Page 7 1 PICU, NICU? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Or were you even boa in a hospital? 4 • A. I was bon in a hospital. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A_ That I'm aware of no, I didn't hear of any 7 complications after. 8 Q. Did you meet your normal developmental 9 milestones such as walking and talking on time? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Any significant childhood illness? 12 A. As in medically? 13 Q. Medically needed to be rehospitalized, 14 surgeries? 15 A. The only thing I'm aware of is I had colic 16 when I was little. 17 Q. Okay. And everybody, or most everybody 18 gets the chicken pox. Things like that. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. That's not what I'm — 21 A. Yeah. Pve had that. 22 Q. Okay. Were you ever in foster care or 23 taken way from you're biological parents? 24 A. No. 25 q. Or Da ever involveST -29brinirif? 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 9 remember the age. I was probably around ten — Q. Okay. A. — when Sot married. They had, you know, a daughter, We moved to South Carolina after Fort Lauderdale. And I didn't really like it in South Carolina. Q. Roughly how old were you when you were in South Carolina? A. Twelve. Q. Okay. Middle school age? A. Yes, it was middle school. It was around -- think it was, actually it was eighth grade, I remember, because I went to three different middle schools in eighth grade. Q. Okay. A. 1 went from Fort Lauderdale to South Carolina and then back to Wellington -- Q. Okay. A. -- because I moved with my father because like me and my stepfather were having problems and also at school there was a lot of girls that wanted to, I guess you put it, kill me. Q. Okay. A. You know, harm me in some way. Q. Pm going to want to hear more about that 3 (Pages 6 to 9 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723312 Page 10 1 later. 2 A. Yeah, rough draft. So I moved in with my 3 father at the end of my eighth grade year. So this is 4 my third middle school I'm attending now. And it was 5 hard for me because I was close with my mother. And I 6 moved with him, but he was gone a lot because he worked 7 seven days a week. Now he's working six, but he was 8 working seven days a week and he wouldn't get home until 9 around, you know, 6 to 8:00 at night. 10 Q. Okay. 11. A. So, and he was a single parent. And it was me 12 and my brother with him. He has custody over my 13 brother. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. And basically I lived with him from there on 16 out. 17 Q. Are you still with him now? 18 A. No, I'm mauled. So, actually right now I am 19 staying at his house because my husband is in the 20 military. So, he is going to be back in three weeks. 21 Q. Okay. What branch of the service? 22 A. Navy. 23 Q. Okay. And is he over in a combat zone or 24 is he just on -- 25 A. Yeah. Page 12 1 Q. Okay. Was this his first deployment or... 2 A. Yes. I mean, he's had little deployments like 3 a month here, three weeks there, but this is his 4 first — 5 Q. Longterm. 6 A. — long deployment. 7 Q. How long has he been in for? 8 A. Four years this April, and he still has one 9 more year. 10 Q. Is he going to re-enlist or is he looking 11 on — 12 A. He is - 13 Q. - various things? 14 A. - not sure because the economy is so 15 horrible. He would lace to become a 16 firefighter-paramedic, but the economy is so bad at the 17 moment that everybody is waiting in line to do that, and 18 he is thinking about re-enlisting. 19 Q. Okay. 2 0 A. So, it's not for sure yet. 21 Q. And how long have the two of you been 22 married? 23 A. Almost four years this December. No, three 24 years. Pm sorry. Three years this December. 23 Q. Okay. So, is he — I guess you met him Page 11 1 Q. -- regular ship deployment or... 2 A. Yeah. He is on a regular ship deployment. I 3 mean, he's been to, you know, to Bahrain and Dubai, 4 things like that. But he is on his way back as of now. 5 He is not stopping at any more ports, but he has been in 6 the combat zone. Stuff like that. 7 Q. I'm trying to remember, that's considered 8 what, Zone 5 or Fleet 5 of the Navy, that area? 9 A. 'have no idea. 10 Q. No idea? 11 A. I don't know. Pm not really sure about all 12 that 13 Q. What type of ship is he on? 14 A. He is on the USS Batten. 15 Q. Okay. Is that a supply ship, frigate? 16 A. Ifs a — 17 Q. Cruiser? 18 A. Ifs the — give me a second. For the 19 helicopters the -- 20 Q. Helicopter carrier? 21 A. Ifs a carrier. 22 Q. Okay. How long was his deployment for? 23 A. It's been about, I'm guessing. I haven't even 24 averaged it out, but six to seven months. It's been a 25 while. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 13 before he went into the Navy? A. I've known him since — I met him actually the first day I went to middle school when I went back to Wellington. Q. Okay. A. I've known him since I was IZ 13, whenever I went back to middle school in West Palm, Wellington. Q. All right. So, jumping back I think I got more into the current family than kind of the — A. Yeah. Q. — the original family there, but thank A. You're welcome. Q. Whatever the opportunity presents. How old is your mother? A. I think she's 45. Pm really terrible. Q Approximately 45? A. Forty-five, yeah. Q. Has she had any health problems? A. She's had a couple lumps, but nothing cancerous. Q. Okay. A. But no. Q. How did she deal with the lumps issues? A. My mom is the type of person, she would rather 4 (Pages 10 to 13) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723313 Page 14 I not know. But I basically convinced her to go because 2 cancer runs in my family. 3 Q. Okay. What do you think of the new 4 guidelines on mammography and all that? 5 A. As in - 6 Q. Oh, they — / A. Sorry. ;3 Q. They just have the recommendations on 9 breast cancer screening come out. 10 A. Oh, did they? 11 Q. (Inaudible.) 12 A. I wasn't even aware of that. 13 Q. Yeah. Now they are debating on what the 14 proper op to do testing is — 15 A. Oh, really. 16 Q. — and therapies and all that, so. Okay. 17 So, you kind of encouraged mom to go get checked 18 out? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. And fortunately it's come back 21 negative? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Is that something that was worrisome for 24 you or... 25 A. Yeah. You know, my mom means a lot tome. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 adct 1G Q. I apologize. A. That's okay. But she doesn't have her at the moment anymore. Q. Okay. So, how many is there biologic kids, I mean you are related to by mother or father? A. None. By both my mother and father, non:: Q. No. A. They are all step. Q. All step. Any half? A. Wait. Q. Half is one parent. A. Fin sony. Half, they are all half, not step. Pm sorry. Q. Not a problem. A. I'm a little tired today. Q. And again at any time if you misspeak and you need to correct, that's — A. Yeah, which I will probably will be doing Q. Please do. So, what are the names of your siblings? A. Okay. There is on my father side, that is M. He is 20 — I'm giving a guess because I have never met him. He is 27. I do speak to him on Facebook. He's 27. And he is by my father. And I'm not sure who the woman is. My dad didn't know about him 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 15 We've had our hard times but every mother and daughter does. Q. What's she do for a living? A. She actually used to work at a law firm for Searcy & Denney — Q. Okay. A. -- Scarola, Barnhart & Shipley. Q. I'm sorry. I missed that last part. A. Oh, it's Searcy, Denney, Scarola, Barnhart & Shipley. That's the law firm. It's all the names. Q. Gotcha. I'm not familiar with that firm. Is that down here? A. It's in West Palm Beach. I'm not sure. It was a while ago. I'm not sure exactly where it is. Pm horrible with directions. Q. That's— A. Yeah, but it's around the West Palm Beach area. Q. Okay. A. But now she is a stay-at-home mom because she has, including me, four kids. But she has three young kids. Q Okay. A. She recently was fostering her step-sister's daughter. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 11 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 17 until he was like eight years old. Q. Okay. A. Then there is me with my mother. And then there is my brother He is going to be 18. He is 17 at the moment. And then there is my sister, =. And she lives in Colorado. And she, I'm guessing. is nine. She's around the age of nine. I see her usually in the summers. Q. Okay. So, that's all on your father's side? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. And Mom's side? A. My mom's side is me and then there is which she's around the age of eight or nine also. Then there is which is adopted by the same woman as her it's her half-sister. Q. isA. Q. A. Yes. Q. Okay. °r n A. And then there which is two. Q. Okay. And is your mother's or adopted or... 5 (Pages 14 to 17) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723314 Page 18 1 A. No, that's my mother's. And then there was 2 M, but she's not with her anymore because she was 3 fostering her. 4 Q. Okay. was the foster? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. She was about one and a half. 8 Q. Now, I have a large number here, so 191 9 just kind of do a blanket statement. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. How are they health wise, any major health 12 problems in any of them? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Any major psychiatric problems or minor 15 psychiatric problems? 16 A. My brother, he had ADD. 17 Q. Which brother? 18 A. Pris, =, on my dad's side. 19 Q. Okay. How old was he when that 20 was diagnosed? Again ballpark 21 A. I think when he started grade school. Maybe 22 middle school. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. I'm guessing. I really honestly am not sure. 25 Pm guessing middle school. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 20 depression? A. It was when she was still in South Carolina. Fm going to say late 30's maybe. Q. Okay. And I know you were relatively young, but do you remember kind of what symptoms you noticed in her, or what others have told you was going on? A. She basically told me she was just, you know. stressed out to the max. And, you know, it was really hard for her at this age and stuff like that. It wasn't — I wasn't with her at that point. That was when I was living with my father and she was like calling me. Q. Okay. A. And letting me know things, and I think they prescribed her Xanax — Q. Okay. A. — which is to calm her down but she's not on anything anymore. She's better. Q. And how long of a period did that go on for? A. I honestly have no idea. Q. Okay. A. I mean, it wasn't for a long, long time. It was— Page 19 1 Q. Is he on any medicines that you're aware 2 of or... 3 A. He was on Ritalin. That's all I know. I 4 don't know what he is on now. I'm sure he is on 5 something still. 6 Q. Okay. Did it help? 7 A. Yes. He's very intelligent. It makes him 3 concentrate. I also have ADD. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. I'm on Addaall which is why I'm in school at 11 the moment, because I usually don't take it when I'm not 12 in school. 13 Q. We had to do this on a Friday. I assume 14 that's because of the school schedule and childcare? 15 A. Yeah, I don't have school on Friday, so... 16 Q. All right. And your mother, does she have 17 any mental health problems or... 18 A. No. 1 mean, she has been through her -- she's 19 been depressed, you know, at some point. 1 mean, 1 20 don't know if you want to consider that mental health. 21 She just got depressed because she was overwhelmed with 22 all the kids at her age. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. But that's basically it. 25 Q. Roughly how old was she when she had the Page 21 1 Q. Are we talking a week, three weeks? 2 A. Oh, it was — 3 Q. a month? 4 A. It was about a couple months to maybe a year. 5 I'm guessing. I mean, I wasn't there at that point. 6 She didn't cligents it at all with me. She didn't want 7 me to worry, but, you know, she did bring it up a couple 8 times. 9 Q. Then it was more than just a bad week or 10 two? 11 A. Oh, yeah. 12 Q. Okay. Was she ever on any antidepressant 13 medications like Zolotl, Prone, Lexapro, Effexor, 14 CymbaIta? 15 A. I think she was, but I have no idea which one. 16 Q. Okay. Put down possible antidepressant 17 A. Yeah. I'm not, yeah, rd have no idea if she 18 really was. I mean, I'm sure she took something because 19 she mentioned something 1 don't remember. 20 . Q. Tell me a little bit about your step-dad. 21 M. you said? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Is it okay if I refer to him that way? 24 A. Yeah. That's what we call him, but is 25 his name. 6 (Pages 18 to 21) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723315 Page 22 2 A. But we call him M. A little bit about him. 3 He is younger than my mom. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. And I don't — I think ifs by four or five 6 years. I'm not sure. Maybe two or three. I really 7 don't know. I'm guessing. 8 In the beginning when my morn first got 9 with him, I personally didn't like him because I was 10 very close to my mom. And I felt, you know, like, 11 jealous I guess you could say because it wasn't just 12 me and her anymore. It was him, you know, coming 13 because she didn't bring him around that much in the 14 beginning. Then we went — you know, when I was 15 three. 16 But, you know, she brought him more 17 around, you blow, a little bit later in life. And I 18 was jealous, and I really didn't like the fact that 19 he was there. But, you 'mow, [guess they got 20 serious at some point. And we just — he, he was 21 young at the time. He was in his 20's Pm guessing, 22 and I think he was — 23 Q. Not to sound funny but when you say 24 guessing, that can mean a lot of different things to 25 a lot of different people. So, if it's kind of like Page 24 1 know, he's fractured my eardrum that he's hit me so hard 2 because I said I didn't like him. You know, here and 3 there. It wasn't like a constant thing but it was when 4 he lost his temper. There was a couple times. 5 Q. Did you ever need to go to the hospital? 6 A. No. I went to the doctors for my ear though. 7 Q. And how is your hearing now? 8 A. It's fine. It was just a fractured eardrum 9 they said. But it, I couldn't hear out of -- I think 10 it I'm not sure — I think it was my right ear for 11 lilce a week, but it's fme now. 12 Q. Any other, and you said it's doing fine 13 now. I sometimes talk a little lower. I can 14 occasionally mumble. So, if I say something you 15 don't understand, let me know. 16 A. Okay. 17 Q. I'm happy to repeat it. 18 A. Okay. 19 Q. You can raise the volume if need be. 20 Okay. You said it wasn't like a daily thing, but 1 21 mean, can you give me a sense, I mean, was there 22 l0ce major episodes or was there a lot of minor 23 little episodes that — 24 A. Yeah, it was, it was mixed between both. It 25 was, there was minor episodes. It's not where he hit me Page 23 1 a good estimate -- 2 A. Uh-huh. 3 Q. — is that what you mean by guessing A. Yes. 5 Q. — or do you mean I am totally just 6 pulling a number out of the air? 7 A. He was in his 20's. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. So, Pm — 10 Q. So, I will assume when you say he is 11 younger, I think, I'm guessing, that that's your 12 best estimate? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. I just -- 15 A. He was in his 20's. And we didn't really get 16 along because, I mean, he's told me that basically I was 17 luggage to him. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. Baggage, luggage, because he was young and he 20 just wanted my mother and I was just a tagalong. He has 21 told me that to this day. I mean, he has apologized for 22 it, but he was physically abusive. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. Not to the point where he like, you know, 25 every day beat me. But when he lost his temper, you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 25 but he would, you know, scream and brake things and throw my phone and stuff like that. And there was also times where he would, you know, hit me to where he got my mom to the point of, you know, asking me, do you want me to leave him. Q. Okay. A. And I just basically told her, I don't, I don't care anymore. I really don't. I mean, I didn't know what to do because I knew she wanted to be with him, and I didn't want to, like, break up them, but also on the other hand I was absolutely miserable. Q. Okay. A. And that's one of the reasons I moved out of South Carolina also. It wasn't just the school. It was a combination of, [just, both. So I just — because I was supposed to go back to South Carolina like for the following school year because they, you know, it was more about my mom had it more about the school issue. There was also to me about him and, you know, she didn't say very much to him, so I just never went back to South Carolina Q. Okay. Again, yeah, I'm just — so it's kind of like you went down to visit your father for the summer and -- A. Not to visit. I went to finish my eighth 7 (Pages 22 to 25) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723316 Page 26 1 grade school year. 2 Q Okay. 3 A. Okay. I was supposed to go back for my high 4 school in South Carolina, but I didn't go back 5 Q. Okay. We're talking about the incidence 6 of domestic violence with your stepfather. The 7 serious episodes, are we talking like five, ten, 15, 8 20? 9 A. It was probably, I mean, it wasn't — 10 Q. Thirty, 100. 11 A. No, it wasn't that many. It was like really 12 horrible, like — there is one in particular that I 13 remember that when I said I didn't like him over the 14 phone, he was listening in on the conversation, he like 15 broke down the door and like ripped my TV out of the 16 wall and threw it down the stairs and basically, beat 17 the crap out of me, and that's when he fractured my 18 eardrum. 19 Q. Okay. How old were you when that 20 happened? 21 A. I was in — it was my -- I think it was the 22 beginning— oh, ballparking it? 23 Q. Ballparking it. 24 A. Seventh or eighth grade year in middle school 25 in Fort Lauderdale. Page 28 1 that's now they are all young. But he spanks them but 2 he treats them completely different now that you 3 know, I mean he's, he's apologized to me and sat me down 4 and told me that he was wrong with the way he raised me. 5 But I guess he was raised like that by his 6 father. Actually, it was worse the way his father 7, raised him, so that's all he knew I'm guessing. And 8 now that he has his owl kids, he sees now that's 9 horrible the way he raised me. 10 Q. Have you forgiven, or is it just you 11 appreciate the apology but — 12 A. I mean, ifs — I still feel like he keeps me 13 111w this, you know, from the family. You know, he — I 14 daft know. That's the way 1 feel. He says otherwise, 15 but there is just little things that make me feel like 16 he would rather me not be at his house, in his home like 17 living when I moved here for instance and I was staying 18 with them first when my husband first left on a 19 deployment. 20 Q. So, you actually went back up and stayed 21 with them for a little while and -- 22 A. Well, they are here now. 23 Q. Oh, they're back now? 24 A. So, they are in Boca. I'm sorry I should have 25 told you that. Page 27 1 Q. Okay. And again, just so I got the 1 2 timeline straight, you were in Fort Lauderdale since 2 eighth grade. Moved up to South Carolina You were 3 <l in South Carolina for less than a year — 4 5 A. Oh, less — 5 6 Q. And came back 6 A. It was a couple months. 7 8 Q. Couple months. 8 9 A. Because 1 did eighth grade in Fort Lauderdale. 9 10 1 went to South Carolina, did eighth grade. And then 1 10 11 went to Wellington and did eighth grade. 11 12 Q. Okay. 12 13 A. So, yeah. 13 14 Q. And this happened before you left, though? 14 15 A. Yes. It was in Fort Lauderdale. 15 16 Q. Okay. Was there any abuse between your 16 17 mother and, and =7 17 18 A. (Witness shakes head.) 18 19 Q. Okay. So, he never hit her? 19 20 A. No. 20 21 Q. Did he ever hit your brother or any of the 21 22 other children? 22 23 A. Those were all his kids. 23 24 Q. Okay. And did he hit any of them? 24 25 A. I mean, he spanks them now, you know, because 25 Page 29 Q. No, that's fine. A. They're back. They're in Boca. Q. How often do you go over and see them? A. I go, I go over there probably once every two weeks or something. You know, he is usually at work and I go to see my mom because she's a stay-at-home mother. She's actually watching my daughter today. Q. Okay. Now, what type of work does he do? A. He is a general manager at a golf course. It's a — it's in, off of Commercial. Q. Okay. A. Coral Ridge Country Cub. Q. And you said you get along well with your mom now? A. Yeah. We get along. I mean, don't get me wrong, we have our differences like every mother and daughter does. You know, I have my opinion. She has hers. And you know, we get into it sometimes but it's about stupid things. You know. Q. And can you give me an example? A. Example. This is, you know, actually recent. They are very and they don't believe in lying to their children and telling them there is a Santa Claus when it's about Jesus's birthday. .Q. Okay. 8 (Pages 26 to 29) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723317 Page 3e 1 A. So, my uncle is coming down but he tells his 2 son that he is -- you know, Santa Claus is real. 3 My mom feels the need if his son asks my 4 mother if Santa Claus is real, she's going to tell 5 him no. And I told her it's not her place to tell 6 somebody else's son that Santa Claus isn't real. 7 That's the parents' place. And she's like, well, 8 it's my home. So, that's a conflict. Something 9 like that. Very minor but I give my opinion. 10 Q. No, l appreciate the example? 11 A. Yeah. 12 Q. Was there ever any abuse from mom? 13 A. No. Mentally when I was younger, you know, 14 she — she lost it on me here and there a lot, you know, 15 for stupid things. I guess I should have said yes, but 16 I don't, you know. 17 Q. Well, let me — any physical abuse? 18 A. There was one time that she got upset with me 19 because her and my stepfather split up. I didn't tell 20 you this either, but her and my stepfather split up at 21 one point before they got married, and she dated this 22 guy. And I didn't like him at all, and he went to 23 Chicago. This is just a scenario of what happened. 24 I was walking in the streets of Chicago 25 and she got pissed because I wasn't listening to 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21. 22 23 24 25 Page 32 100 percent know. Q. Okay. A. I'm very bad with those dates. Q. So, closer to II than 16? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And again it's okay to ballpark. If I need something more specific — A. Yeah. Q. — we'll work through it. A. Ifs so hard for me to do dates really. Q. Do you know why they got separated the first time? A. I have no idea. I don't know. Q. Do you know why your mother and your biological father got separated? A. Yes. Because he was doing drugs and cheated on my mother. Q. What drugs was he doing? A. Cocaine. Q. Okay. Was he selling or just using or... A. Both. Q. Did any of that come home with him or... A. My mom said the time that she left him was when I got a hold of a bag of coke, and that's when she was fed up. Now, this is from what she told me. You Page 31 1 her. So she took the in the bathroom and hit me a 2 couple of times to be like, you 'mow, wake the hell 3 up, and what are you doing walking in the streets of 4 Chicago? 5 Q. Okay. Was it like a spanking or slapping 6 in the face or - 7 A. She hit me with her hands a couple of times 8 and slammed my head against the wall. But it was just, 9 she was really mad. 10 Q. And you were roughly four, five — 11 A. No. 12 Q. — ten, 20? 13 A. No. I'm going to say between, like — I said 14 they got married when I was around ten. So, maybe like, 15 you know what, they got married when 1 was around ten. 16 They got married twice. I'm sorry. There's things that 17 pop back up to me. 18 They got married when I was ten. They got 19 a divorce and they got re-married in a courthouse, 20 which I totally forgot about. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. You're going to see I do that. I forget and 23 then I start remembering. And I think it was when they 24 got their divorce. So Pm guessing around the age of 25 like 11 or so. Pin, I'm ballparlcing it. I really don't Page 33 1 know, there's her side, his side, and the truth, so... 2 They told me two different stories. 3 Q. And what's his version of events? 4 A. She was jealous and he couldn't deal with it, 5 so that's why they split up. So, I mean, I don't blow 6 if he wants me to know or — I mean, he is foe now, you 7 know, he's -- 8 Q. How much clean time has he had? 9 A. He's a while. I mean, this is when I was 10 younger. I don't,1 don't know honestly. lean% tell 11 you. I have no idea, but I mean, I remember scenarios 12 when I was in Jupiter visiting him, and I, I mean, not 13 that I knew at that time, but I look back and I'm like, 14 he had to be on drugs the way he — it was just, he 15 didn't give a crap about anything, you know. He would 16 throw my brother in a bed and my brother would cry to 17 sleep. And 1 would just — it was horrible. But that's 18 when I was -- I have no idea what age. I was yotmg. It 19 was when he lived in Jupiter, Jupiter Farms. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. But fora while now he's — a great job, makes 22 good money. 23 Q. I forgot to ask about him. So, what, what 24 is his job? 25 A. He's the finance director of a, two 1 9 (Pages 30 to 33) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723318 Page 34 1 dealerships, car dealerships. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. He still works a lot. He works six days a 4 week. tie's a hard worker. He's dating somebody but he 5 hasn't been married since my mother. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. I don't {mow if he has a commitment problem or 8 what it is. But, you know, he's basically raised my 9 brother. My brother's mom turned into a druggie. And I 10 don't know if she got that, started from my father. But 11 she was a real nice woman when I knew her, but she's 12 literally a druggie, disgustingly and -- 13 Q. Do you have any dealings with her or... 14 A. I'm sorry? 15 Q. Do you have any dealings with your 16 brother's mother? 17 A. As in like -- 18 Q. Was she like living in the house? 19 A. She was living there and she was — 20 Q. - for the first part? 21 A. She was, she was a sweetheart when I was 22 living then. She was a sweetheart and I know she got 23 attached to drugs. I don't know if it was my father 24 that got her on them, because they started — they were 25 in Jupiter when this whole thing, you know, when they Page 36 1 still comes into his life, I'm going to pick you up next 2 week; never shows up. She's back in jail. Ifs I can't 3 imagine what he goes through and he tries to act now 4 like, oh, I don't give a, you know, whatever he uses 5 these words, and I know it hurts. 6 Q. Yeah. All right. So, and just an 7 interesting history. And thank you. So, I'm just 8 trying to make sure I've got it and haven't skipped 9 anything. 10 A. Yeah. 11 Q. So, dad's working at a car dealership, 12 staying in his house right now? 13 A. Uh-huh. 14 Q. Good relationship with him now? 15 A. Yeah. Now, we have finally are having a good 16 relationship. 17 Q. When do you think the relationship 18 improved? 19 A. Since I had my daughter. So, about, almost 20 two yews. 21 Q. Okay. Something I just realized I forgot 22 to ask: What's your husband's rank in the Navy? 23 A. He is about to be an 15. If he makes — he 24 took a test but they randomly pick. He's, right now 25 he's an I.4. Page 35 got together. So, I don't know if she just started 2 doing them with my dad because when I ;mew her she was a 3 sweetheart, amazing woman. Q. Okay. A. And she just started going downhill and doing crazy stuff when you do when ttre on drugs. And my 7 dad had to take custody of M, which is my brother. a And be's raised my brother, and my brother is very 9 intelligent and he's about to graduate. 10 Q. Good for bin 11 A. So, l mean, back in the past, yeah, there was 12 complications, but now there they are good. 13 Q. What do you mean complications? 14 A. As in drugs and, you know, his mom, you know, 15 doing the drugs and my dad was doing the drugs. My 16 brother, you know, was just in a bad environment. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. You 'mow. 19 Q. Your brother used than as well? 20 A. My brother, he has. I mean, don't get me 21 wrong, you know, teenagers try drugs. But l feel bad 22 for him because he's never had a mother figure in his 23 life. You know, he's had me, but I'm his sister. 24 Q. Right. 25 A. You know, I mean, his mother alssa)s -- she Page 37 1 Q. Good for him. 2 A. Yeah, he's, he's an excellent worker. 3 Q. So, is Is getting up to sergeant rank? I 4 mean, I know in the military, Army I think 1-4 is 5 corporal. May have forgotten. Don't know? 6 A. I just know he is an I-4, and I-5 is higher. 7 I mean, it's getting up there. He is doing really well. 8 Q. Right. 9 A. He has a lot of awards, you knowa best worker 10 awards. He is actually elected to get to So, 11 basically if he passes the test, he is basically going 12 to be hand picked. Because the way they do the testing 13 in the Navy is, this group of people test, you know, 14 this - you Icnow just say 50 percent pass the test. 15 They only take a !landfill of that 50 percent that pass. 16 Not all the people that pass get the next rank. 17 Q. Gotcha. 18 A. So -- 19 Q. He's got enough awards and stuff that it 20 looks like he — 21 A. They basically awarded him to get I-5, if he 22 makes it. 23 Q. Okay. Good. So, relationship with father 24 improved since your daughter's been born? 25 A. Yes. 10 (Pages 34 to 37) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723319 Page 38 1. Q. Okay. And he's been clean for a while? 2 A. Yeah. 3 Q. Did he just use cocaine or were there 4 other things there too? 5 A. I ]mow there was marijuana — Q. Okay. 7 A. when 1 was younger. But I just heard 8 stories of the cocaine and things like that from, you 9 know, my cousins. They know from their parents. It's 10 just, I've heard about it in the family. 11 Q. Was he using powder or crack or... 12 A. I think cocaine powder. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. I hope he wasn't doing crack. 15 Q. Did he go to a treatment program or was he 16 just — 17 A. No. He just was able to stop. 18 Q. Stop. Okay. 19 A. Yeah 20 Q. In the extended family any history of any 21 mental health problems, depression, anxiety, 22 schizophrenia? 23 A. My grandmother's brother — 24 Q Okay.. 25 A. I don't know what it's called. I 'mow he has Page 40 1 Q. Okay. But he has been in an institution? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. ni just leave it at that, unknown. 4 Okay. Any history of suicides in the family, 5 immediate, or extended? 6 A Not that, I mean — not that I can think of. 7 I know my, my dad's cousin got really depressed at one 8 point and wanted to commit suicide from what I heard 9 years ago. But I'm not really close with him either. 10 Q. Okay. 11. A I just heard about it. But that I know of, 12 no, nobody that has committed suicide. 13 Q All right Anything else about your 14 family you think would be helpful for me to know? 15 Again that's not a one-time offer, so if something 16 pops up later - 17 A. Yeah, there might be things that pop up later 18 but from what I know, that's a lot of information. 19 Q. Okay. I !mow we covered a little of this 20 when we were talking about the family but I may 21 repeat a little bit here. 22 A. Okay. 23 Q. How was your childhood in general or how 24 would you describe it? 25 A. If I compare myself to somebody else, like, Page 39 a mental disorder to where maybe if you named it, I 2 can — 3 Q. Was he hospitalized? 4 A. He's been in a mental institution. 5 Q. Okay. I mean, they sometimes talk about 6 manic depressive disease, bipolar, schizophrenia, 7 schizo-effective? 8 A. Schizophrenia, what is that, when you're just 9 like - I nlean — 10 Q. There's several different forms of it, but 11 people can become paranoid. They can become what 12 they call catatonic where they don't move and — 13 A. No, I mean, he's — I've met him and he's 14 just — he talks just like you and I, but I know he is 15 diagnosed with something, but I don't know — 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. what it is. 18 Q. Does he have periods where he's different 19 from us and periods where he looks like us? 20 A. You mean acts, like his actions? 21 Q. Uh-huh. 22 A. Yeah. My grandmother says like, he will be 23 fine and he could just lose it and just be like crazy 24 sometimes. So, I don't know if it's bipolar or I'm not 25 sure. I'm not really close with him. Page 41 1 there's this girl, I'm not going to get into it, there's 2 a girl in my school that she told me her life story, and 3 1 was like, wow, and I thought mine was bad. 4 But I mean, it's, it's not been horrible, 5 but there has been some, you know, mental and 6 physical abuse, but it hasn't been, oh, I was 7 traumatized and, you know, things like that. 8 But I mean, some things did affect me, you 9 know, and still to this day I'm hurt from certain 10 things that have happened in my life, you know. 11 Q. What would you say are the things that 12 still affect you? 13 A. Just the way my stepfather mistreated me and 14 some of the mental abuse my father, you know, said to 15 me. It's, basically it's just that part, and just that 16 I never felt wanted by either side of the family. 17 Q. Okay. What were some of the things your 18 father said to you? 19 A. Just things Ince you're a fat pig, slob, and 20 you're not going to graduate or amount to anything in 21 life. And your brother is going to be a, you know, 22 architect or a doctor and you're going to be nothing, 23 and just things like that. 24 Q. How old were you when that was happening? 25 A. I was in high school. 11 (Pages 38 to 41) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723320 Page 42 Page 44 1 Q Okay. 2 A. That was probably like my junior — I'm, I'm 3 ballparking it 4 Q. That's fine. 5 A. Junior, senior year. He got fed up with me. 6 Q. Okay. All right Did you have a lot of friends when you were growing up or... 8 A. Yeah. I clung to my friends because that's 9 all I felt I had at that point. 10 Q. How many friends do you have now? 11 A. Friends and acquaintances or close 12 girlfriends? 13 Q. Friend-friends, and then we can talk about 14 friendly acquaintances. 15 A. I have a lot of close friends that I have had 16 since high school and even when I went to daycare. Do 17 you want a number? 18 Q. Sure. 19 A. Okay. Well, let me think. Probably six to 20 eight really dose girlfriends — 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. — that I've known for years. 23 Q. Did any of them go see Mr. Epstein? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And do you know which ones those were? 1 of my friends in school. 2 Q. And she hasn't gone there? 3 A. Oh, no. 4 Q. No. 5 A. !just met her in school just recently, the 6 school I'm in now. 7 Q. Which school are you in now? 8 A. I'm in cosmetology school. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. 'mean, we just were talking one day and she 11 just — you know, she's an awesome, amazing person for 12 what she's been through. You know, it's just, I was 13 amazed. And I was hie, wow, and I, I thought that, you 14 blow, my life wasn't that great but to hear your story I 15 feel bad. 16 Q. I know we talked about this a little bit, 17 but when you were growing up, how were you 18 disciplined? 19 A. As in technique wise, as in timeout, hitting, 20 stuff like that? 21 Q. Yeah. 22 A. Hitting, hit, I was hit with a spatula. 23 Q. Asa child growing up, did you act out or 24 get along or what was 25 A. Socially? Page 43 1 A. Give the names? 2 Q. Yeah. 3 A. Am I allowed to do that? Q. I think so. Again, my understanding is is 5 there's orders on name confidentiality, that they 6 are being put as in codes in the transcripts, but I 7 don't know that as. A. I don't — I prefer not to give the names 9 because I really don't know if their attorneys would 10 like me to do that, but I do have friends that have went 11 there also. I have two or three of them. I don't want 12 to, I don't 'mow if I'm allowed to. That's not, I don't 13 know if that's my place to put out their names. 14 Q. Okay. It would be helpful for me but, you 15 know, you have to do what you thinks right. 16 A. Yeah, maybe I will talk to my attorney. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. I will talk to my attorney first and I will 19 ask her about it and — 20 Q. Okay. When we take a beats 21 A. Yeah. 22 Q. Sounds good. The friend you were talking 23 about who had a worse life than you had — 24 A. That's just a friend at my school as of right 25 now. I mean, I'm not close-close to her, but she's one 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 45 Q. Uh-huh. A. When I was in middle school, I actually — I kept to myself a lot. Q. Okay. A. I actually was very shy. Even my freshman year in high school, I was shy. I was inward. I was quiet, you know, people would say things to me. I wouldn't speak out or lash out. I would just let them talk back to me. Q. Okay. A. And probably around my sophomore and junior year is when I started, you know, not letting people =SS me anymore. Q. Okay. What led to the change? A. It could have been a combination of things. It could have been, you know, I've been hurt by so many people and walked all over by so many people, you know, including the Epstein scenario. The whole thing that happened with that, you know, it just, basically I just — I was sick of, you know, being taken advantage of. Q. Okay. What were some your interests when you were younger? What did you like to do? A. I like to draw. Pm artistic. I like to go to movies. What do you mean by younger, as in what age 12 (Pages 42 to 45) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723321 Page 46 Page 48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 frame, like -- Q. What would you consider childhood to be? A. Childhood, probably under the age of like 12, 11, I would say. So, you know, l like to draw and do — 1 wasn't, !was, like I told you, I was like more, I didn't really have a whole bunch of friends when I was younger, you know, childhood. Q• Okay. A. So, I was more to myself and went on the computer and drew and stuff like that, riding bikes, playing with my pets, stuff Lice that. Q. Okay. And as an adolescent then? A. 'liked to hang out with my friends a lot. Q. Okay. And the movies, does that fall under childhood or adolescence? A. Both. I like to go to the movies. i still do. Q. What is your favorite genre? A. As in movie? Q. Uh-huh, or what style or type or... A. I like romantic, comedy. Q. What happened when you were in school in South Carolina? You said that there were threats against you and — A. Basically 1 went to this new school in South 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 throat and things like that. Q. So, the people who were -- A. I was friends with. I was mostly friends with the guys which seems awkward, but none of the girls lilted me. Q. And the girls were in a gang? A. That's what they told me. The guys told me that they were in a gang, Q. Do you know which gang? A. I have no idea. I didn't even — I just wanted to get the hell out of there. Q. I would understand that. Okay. Besides the abuse that happened to you, did you witness any other abuse or -- A. As in with my mother and father a stepfather? Q. Mother, father, stepfather? A. Mental or physical you're saying? Q. Let's start physical? A. No. Q. Mental? A. Mental, I, you know, i mean, l don't know ifl would consider it mental abuse, but my mother and stepfather would get into arguments. I don't remember what it was about. I mean, I know she was self-conscious and he couldn't stand that, and — but I Page 47 Carolina. And i mean, just the girls hated me. 1 2 Q. Okay. 2 3 A. They wanted to cut my hair off, slice my 3 4 throat. They would just talk bad to me, and I would 4 5 just sit there and let them talk bad tome. It was 5 6 just, I don't know if it was a jealousy thing or they 6 7 just didn't like who I was, but I didn't say anything so 7 8 i don't know how they wouldn't like my personality 8 9 because I really was just quiet. 9 10 Q. Okay. Did anything happen that started 10 11 this? i mean, that's not usual -- 11. 12 A. I did, I mean, I became friends with, you 12 13 know, basically I became friends with the guys because 13 14 none of the girls liked me. And Ilumg out with them 14 15 and i mean, they just did not like me. Like even my 15 16 first day, these girls were giving me the nastiest 16 17 looks. I mean, the classroom was sort of, they had 17 18 windows like this, and the girls were just staring at 18 19 me. 19 20 Q. Okay. You said there were threats. Were 20 21 there actual physical, physical altercations? 21 22 A. No, because I left and you know, I left. They 22 23 would -- there was, you know, guys would be like you 23 24 need to be careful because they're all in a gang and, 24 25 you know, they said that they wanted to slice your 25 Page 49 mean, !just, not that I remember. It wasn't something I would pay attention to. I would just walk away. Q. Did you see any abuse in friends or people outside the family? A. Physical? Q. Physical. A. No. Q. Mental? A. I mean, mental abuse is everywhere though. Q. How do you define mental abuse? You actually bring up a good point. A. Just putting somebody down I consider mental abuse. Q. Okay. So, if a married couple had a general fight, you would consider that mental abuse or does it have to go — A. It's a choice of words. As if you don't know what you are doing, you know, you don't know how to clean the house, this, that, and the other, I consider that mental abuse because you're putting somebody down. Q. Okay. I don't think i have directly asked at this point, and again we'll talk about Epstein later, so taking that part right now out of the equation, have you ever been sexually abused? A. No. 4 13 (Pages 46 to 49) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723322 Page 50 Pact'• 52 Q. All right. Okay. Were you raised in a 2 church, mosque, synagogue, house of worship? 3 A. No. It wasn't — they, they didn't become 4 Christian until later on when they were in South 5 Carolina is when they became really religious. 6 Q. And I assuming that is yota mother and 7 stepfather? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Would they consider themselves born again 10 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. Do you attend church now or mosque, 13 synagogue, house of worship? 14 A. Yeah, my husband and I, actually wo were 15 attending church before he left on deployment And we 16 got really close to this couple that brought us into 17 this church. And it was a Christian church. And we 18 were doing really good. And then he left, and I 19 started, you know, I went to Christ Fellowship a couple 20 of times, but it's sort of hard bra-Anse I don't, I don't 21 like to leave my daughter at daycares or random places. 22 Q. Why is that? 23 A. !don't trust people. 24 Q. Okay. Any particular reason why? 25 A. It could be, you 'mow, there is, I mean, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. !have a dog. Q. Okay. What type of dog? A. Puggle, it's a pug and a beagle mixed. Q. Thank you. Fm trying to imagine what that would look like. A. He's, he's pretty ugly. But I love ugly dogs. Q. And growing up, I don't need to know everything but — A. Everything. Q. Just kind of in — A. I've had — Q. — genera/ what have you had? A. I've had dogs. I've had c