25 UNITED STATES GRAND JURY

2 3 4 5x 6 1 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 L8 .9 20 21 22 23 24 25 UNITED STATES GRAND JURY SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK UNITED STATES OF AMERICA GHISLAINE MAXWELL (2018R01618) APPEARANCE S: GRAND JURY EXHIBIT : November 19, 2019 Additional -x United States Courthouse 300 Quaroppas Street White Plains, New York June 29, 2020 10:04 a.m. afa Assistant United States Attorney Assistant United States Attorney Acting Grand Jury Reporter FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Anna!). 410-9,4-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000392 EFTA00008920 06/29/20 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Colloquy Precedes) (Witness Enters Room) (Time Noted: 10:16 a.m.) called as a witness, having been duly sworn by the Foreperson cf the Grand Jury, was examined and testified as follows: BY MS. III: Q. Good morning. A. Morning. Q. Can you please state your full name for the record? A. Q. So : recognize that you are wearing a mask and behind Plexiglas. There's a microphone in front of you, it you could just make an effort to speak into the mic and keep your voice up that would be great. A. No problem. Q. Where do you currently work? A. The Federal Bureau of Investigation. Q. What is your title? A. Special agent. Q. Hew long have you worked as a special agent? A. About three years, three years now. Q. A. where are you currently assigned? I work for the -- on the Violent Crimes against FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNI_Gl_SDNY_00000393 EFTA00008921 06/29/20 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Children squad. Q. What are your duties and responsibilities as a special agent on that squad? A. We investigate crimes that have to do with child sexual abuse material, sextortion, exploitation, and enticement of minors, sex trafficking. GRAND JUROR. Maybe if she could take the mask off. I'm having -- is anybody having difficulty understanding her? MS. Thanks for letting me know. Would that be okay with you if the witness took her mask off? GRAND JUROR. We're okay with the Plexiglas, right? GRAND JUROR. Yeah. MS. III. Thanks very much. Thank you. BY MS. III: Q. All right. So I'm just going to go back and ask a few of those questions again just to make sure that everyone can hear. You testified earlier that you're a special agent with the FBI. Is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Where are you currently assigned? A. I work on the Violent Crimes against Children squad. Q. And what are your duties and responsibilities as s FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000394 EFTA00008922 06/29/20 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 special agent on that squad? A. We investigate crimes that involve child sexual abuse material, sextortion, enticement, and exploitation of minors, sex trafficking, international parental kidnappings. MS. I. . Let me just pause here. Can everyone hear the witness? CRANE JUROR. Yes. MS. Okay. Thank you. And Special Agent , if you could just try to keep your voice up, I really appreciate it. It's a little difficult under the circumstances. BY MS. III: Q. Have you participated in an investigation of Ghislaine Maxwell? A. Yes, I have. Q. Have you spoken to other people, including other law enforcement officers, about this investigation? A. Yes. Q. Have you reviewed reports and documents prepared by others regarding this case? A. Yes. Q. Is your testimony today based in part on those conversations with other law enforcement officers and documents that you have reviewed? A. Yes. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcripttnn D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDN Y_00000395 EFTA00008923 06/29/20 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ms. Ladies and gentlemen, let me just give you a brief instruction. Some of the testimony that you'll hear today will include what's called hearsay. As you know, that means that the witness will not be testifying solely from her own observations, but that she'll also be reporting to you what others have told her and what she's read in reports and documents prepared by other people. Hearsay evidence is admissible in these grand jury proceedings, and you're free to rely on it in determining whether there's probable cause to indict the proposed defendant. If, however, you would like to hear the testimony of any other witness, you have the right to request it and we will make reasonable efforts to bring that witness before you. BY MS..: Q. Special Agent , we placed on the desk in front of you a PowerPoint that is Grand Jury Exhibit 2, which we're entering into the record. Do you recognize this? A. Yes. Q. What is it? A. It's a PowerPoint presentation to assist in testifying today. Q. Did you participate in preparing this exhibit in FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000396 EFTA00008924 06/29/20 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 connection with your testimony today? A. Yes, I did. Q• If you could please turn to the first slide. Who are the individuals depicted in these photographs? A. The picture on the left is Ghislaine Maxwell, and the picture on the right is Jeffrey Epstein with Ghislaine Maxwell. Q. Based on your participation in this investigation and your review of public source materials, have Maxwell and Epstein been photographed together many times over the years? A. Yes. Q. Based on your participation in this investigation and your review of public materials, where is Maxwell from? A. Maxwell was born in France. She grew up in the United Kingdom, was educated in Oxford, and is from a wealthy family. Q. Is she a citizen of France, the United Kingdom, and the United States? A. Yes. Q. How old is she currently? A. 58. Q. Has the FBI investigated Maxwell and Epstein's conduct with minors during the 1990's? A. Yes FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_O0OO0397 EFTA00008925 06/29/20 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Generally speaking, what have you learned about the relationship between Maxwell and Epstein during the 1990's? A. Epstein and Maxwell had a romantic relationship, and she also worked for him; managing his homes, hiring and firing individuals. Q. During that time period, was she one of his closest associates? A. Yes. Q. During the course of this investigation, have you learned where Epstein maintained properties in the 1990's? A. Yes. Q. Where did he maintain properties? A. New York, Palm Beach, and New Mexico. Q. Turning to the next slide, did he maintain an address in Manhattan located at 9 East 71st Street? A. Yes. Q. Does this slide fairly and accurately depict the residence? A. Yes. Q. Can you please describe that property for the grand jury? A. It's a seven story home; it's located near Central Park. It's reportedly the largest residence in Manhattan. Q. Based on your participation in this investigation, FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000398 EFTA00008926 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 8 did that house include a room that was used a massage room? A. Yes, it did. Q. All right. We'll talk more about that later, but for now, moving on to the other properties. Did he maintain an address in Palm Beach, Florida, located at 358 El Brillo Way? A. Yes. Q. Turning to the next slide. Does this slide fairly and accurately depict that residence? A. Yes, it does. Q. Could you please describe that property for the grand jury? A. It's a waterfront estate. It has an in ground pool and a detached dwelling or pool house on the property as well. Q. And from your participation in this investigation and your review of other materials, did that house include a room that was used as a massage room? A. Yes. Q. Turning to the next property. Did Epstein also own a ranch in New Mexico? A. Yes, he did. Q• And turning to the next slide. Was that property located at 49 Zorro Ranch Road in Stanley, New Mexico? A. Yes. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Tranacription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. a Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDN Y_00000399 EFTA00008927 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 9 Q. Looking at the photograph on this slide, does this accurately depict that property? A. Yes, it does. Q. And we've been talking about the properties that Epstein owned during this time period. Did he also own a private jet? A. Yes. Q. Is it fair to say that he was a multimillionaire during this time period? A. Yes. Q. During the 1990's did Epstein have an employee who ran his house in Palm Beach? A. Yes, he did. Q. What was his job? A. His job was making sure that everything in the house ran smoothly. He referred -- he described that Epstein liked to have his house run live a five-star hotel; that everything had to be in its proper place. So he was responsible for managing that. Q. Have you interviewed A. Yes. Q. How many times? A. Twice. Q. And is the information you're about to provide based on your interviews with FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. a Annap. 410-974-0947 GNI_GLSDNY_00000400 EFTA00008928 06/29/20 10 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. Did begin working for Epstein in the early 3 1990's? A. Yes, he did. Q. And at the time came to work for Epstein in Palm Beach, was Epstein dating Ghislaine Maxwell at that point? A. Not at that time. Q. Was it a few years before Epstein began dating Maxwell after started working there? A. Yes. Q. From what told you, how did is work change once Maxwell arrived on the scene? A. described Epstein as being more pleasant to work with prior to Maxwell coming into the picture. Once she came into the picture, he said things became more secretive. He wasn't allowed to be in the room with guests, wasn't allowed to talk with them, associate with them. It became a different environment. Q. You talked about some of the rules that were placed changing. Were there any rule changes about eye contact once Maxwell began staying in the Palm Beach house? A. Yes. wasn't allowed to make eye contact with Epstein and others. Q. In general, how did he describe what it was like FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000401 EFTA00008929 06/29/20 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to work for Maxwell? A. He said she was very demanding; she was on top of him all the time. He described her as a "bitch." Q. Is that the word that he used? A. That is the word he used. Q. Shifting gears. I want to talk to you about someone else that you've interviewed during this investigation. During the course of this investigation, have you participated in interviews with an individual named A. Yes. Q. So for these purposes I'm just going to refer to her as Is that okay? A. Yes. Q. How many times have you interviewed A. Approximately five times. Q. If you could please just page through the next two slides in front of you. Are these photographs of A. Yes. Q. Is it your understanding that these photographs depict from approximately ages 13 to approximately 17? A. Yes, it does. Q. Okay. Let's take a look at some of those photographs. I'm going to publish the next slide. Is date of birth FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000402 EFTA00008930 06/29/20 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. And are these two photographs of A. Yes, they are. Q. If you could turn to the second slide of photographs. Are these also photographs of A. Yes. Q. Based on your participation in this investigation and your interviews with , where was she living when she was approximately 14? A. She was living in Palm Beach, Florida. Q. Who was she living with when she was 14? A. Her mother and her siblings. Q. What was her whole life like at that time? A. At that time, her father had passed away the year prior, so the family was struggling financially and having some difficulties. Q. What did father do before he passed away? What was his profession? A. He was involved in the Q. Was involved in the A. Yes, she was. Q. Were her siblings? A. Yes. 0. What were they involved in? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Salt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000403 EFTA00008931 06/29/20 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 lE 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Singing, she was a singer. Q. Like what kind of singer? A. Opera. Q. In the summer of 1994, how old was A. She was 13 going on 14. Q. You testified earlier that her birthday is in , so did she turn 14 in of 1994? A. Yes. Q. What did she do that summer? A. She attended an arts camp at Interlochen Center for the Arts. Q. And is Interlochen Summer Arts Program located in Michigan? A. Yes. Q. Did meet Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell that summer? A. Yes, she did. Q. Did she meet them at summer camp? A. Yes. Q. What did she tell you about that? A. She said that she was sitting at a picnic table with friends when Epstein and Maxwell walked by. They stopped to talk to her, engaged her in conversation, asked her if she liked her classes, her teachers. During that conversation, they found out that she was also from Palm FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000404 EFTA00008932 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 14 Beach and that he said that he gives scholarships to students. Q. How did they leave the conversation? Was there any contact information exchanged? A. They asked for phone number. Q. As part of your investigation, have you attempted to gather records to corroborate that , Maxwell, and Epstein were all at that summer camp that summer? A. Yes. Q. If you could turn to the next slide, please. Have you obtained records from Interlochen for the summer of 1994? A. Yes. Q. And what are we looking at on this slide: A. This shows who -- some of the individuals that were there -- were present for that camp in '94. On here is and and Q. And have you investigated whether Maxwell and Epstein were also at Interlochen that summer of 1994 as described? A. Yes. Q. Based on your review of records from Interlochen, what is your understanding of Epstein's relationship with Interlochen? A. My understanding was that he was a donor to the FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription C.C. Area 301-261-1902 salt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000405 EFTA00008933 06/29/20 15 1 2 3 4 6 9 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. 1994? school. Q. Did he make any substantial donations? A. He did. Did he donate a lodge to the camp in the summer of 5 A. Yes, he did. Q. Did he have a long standing relationship as a donor to Interlochen? A. Yes. Q. Turning to the next slide. Is this an excerpt of a letter from Interlochen to Epstein? A. Yes, it is. Q. And does this letter thank Epstein for donating a scholarship lodge? A. Yes. Q. Does it invite Epstein to visit in August of 1994? A. Yes. Q. In 1994, did Epstein have a private jet? A. Yes, he did. Q. Have you obtained the flight logs for that jet? A. Yes. Q. Do those logs include passenger lists and the airport code for the airports that the plane flew into and out of? A. Yes. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1502 Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000406 EFTA00008934 06/29/20 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Turning to the next slide. Is this a page of the flight logs that you've reviewed? A. Yes. Q. And on this excerpt of the flight logs where the red arrow is, is that a log entry showing an August 18, 1994 flight to an airport with the airport code TVC? A. Yes. Q• Is TVC the airport code for Cherry Capital Airport in Traverse City, Michigan? car? A. Yes, it is. Q. About how far is that airport from Interlochen by A. It's about 25 minutes give or take. Q. And who were the listed passengers on this flight? A. Jeffrey Epstein, (ph.), and (ph.). Q. Turning to the next slide. Is this the same excerpt but just with a different arrow? A. Yes. Q. Okay. So a few lines down is there a flight out of Traverse City just two days later on August 20th, 1994? A. Yes. Q. And do the passengers listed in the flight out of Traverse City include the initials G.M.? A. Yes, they do. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000407 EFTA00008935 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 17 Q. Are those Ghislaine Maxwell's initials? Yes. Have you obtained any records from Interlochen to A. Q. indicate that Maxwell was at Interlochen in 1994? A. Yes. Q. If we could turn to the next slide. Can you please explain for the grand jury what we're looking at on this slide? A. This was a letter from interlochen explaining -- addressed to Maxwell telling her that they had found an envelope in the lodge that they had been staying in. Q. All right. We were talking a few moments ago about how described meeting Maxwell and Epstein at summer camp, and you testified that she provided them with her phone number. Did explain to you whether or not she had any contact with Epstein or Maxwell after she returned home to Palm Beach? A. Yes. Q. When was the next time that happened? A. Shortly thereafter. Q. And how did that occur? A. She was invited to his house. So her and her mother went to Epstein's house to visit. Q. What did tell you about that visit to Epstein's house with her mother? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000408 EFTA00008936 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 18 A. She said it was wait, can you rephrase that? Q. Of course. Did go to the house by herself or with her mother? A. With her mother. Q. Okay. And when they went to the house, what did they do there? A. They had tea. Q. Who was there when they had tea at the house? A. Epstein and Maxwell. Q. What did they discuss as they had tea? A. They just talked about her life and, you know, what she wanted to do. Q. Did Epstein make any offers? A. He said that he gives scholarships. He likes to mentor people. Q. How-did mother react when Epstein said this? A. She was happy for her daughter and oftentimes referred to Epstein as Godfather. Q. After that occasion when they went over to the house, thereafter did subsequently begin regularly spending time with Maxwell and Epstein at Epstein's house in Palm Beach? A. Yes. Q. And did that start when she was approximately age FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Salt. fi Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000409 EFTA00008937 06/29/20 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14? A. Yes. Q. Did it continue until she was about age 17? A. Yes, it did. Q. And during those years, did she regularly go over to Epstein's house in Palm Reach and spend time with Maxwell and Epstein? A. Yes. Q. What happened in the summer of 1997 when was 17 and about to turn 18? A. She moved to New York City. Q. Why did she move to New York City? A. She wanted to pursue a career in acting and modeling. Q. We'll talk about that in a moment, but for now want to focus on the years you talked about in Palm Beach from ages 14 to 17 when would regularly go to Epstein's house. In the beginning, in the first few months when she went there, what kinds of things did she do when she would visit the house when Maxwell and Epstein were there? A. They'd hang out by the pool, he -- they would take her to the movies, take her shopping. She described the behavior as grooming. Q. When you say grooming, did she explain what she FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_0000O41O EFTA00008938 06/29/20 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 A 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 meant by that? A. She meant that they were building a relationship with her, giving her things, taking her places. And then usually when the grooming happens, an offender will -- once they gain that trust, they will make the relationship Lurn sexual. Q. Now, you testified just a moment ago that described to you that she felt at this time period that they were grooming her. Is that right? A. Yes. Q. Is that something that she realized at the time when she was 14, or is that something that she's described to you now? A. Something she's described now. She didn't realize that at the time. Q. So we'll talk a little bit more about grooming in a moment, but just to give context are you familiar with the term grooming based on your experience investigating crimes involving a sexual exploitation of minors? A. Yes. Q. Generally speaking, -- you were touching on this a moment ago, but if you just could explain in full. What is grooming? A. Grooming is when someone builds a relationship with a child. They find a vulnerability or a need and then FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 ©alt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_0000041 EFTA00008939 3 2 4 C 0 10 11 12 13 14 lb 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 21 they work on gaining a child's trust, and then oftentimes gaining a parent's trust. Once they have that trust, they show that in ways that they care about them by giving them gifts and promises. And then once that's established, they then turn the relationship sexual, oftentimes making sexual comments and normalizing the behavior. Q. Now, during these visits that you've been describing that told you about, did say whether Epstein ever gave her anything? A. Yes, she did. Q. What did he give her? A. He gave her cash. Sometimes he'd tell her to give the cash to her mom because he knew that they needed it. He paid for her voice lessons as well. Q. Now, you were describing how has characterized these visits now. But based on your conversations with her, at the time did she feel that these visits were strange at all? A. She thought they were strange, but Maxwell normalized it for her. She was like a cool older sister and made comments like this is what grownups do. Q. You used the phrase cool older sister. Is that a phrase that used to describe how she felt about Maxwell at the time and what Maxwell was like? A. Yes, those are her words. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GNI_Gl_SDNY_0O00O411 EFTA00008940 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 22 Q. Did there come a time -- these visits when saw Maxwell topless by the pool? A. Yes. Q. What did she tell you about that? A. She was a little taken back, but Maxwell just acted normal. Q. Did tell you about an incident several months into this arrangement when she was alone with Epstein in the pool house? A. Yes. Q. And when they were alone together, did Epstein ask what she wanted to do with her life? A. He did. Q. What did she say? A. She said she wanted to be an actress and a model. Q. How did Epstein respond? A. He told her that he was best friends with the owner of Victoria Secret. Told her that she would have to have photographs taken and that she got to be comfortable in her underwear, and not to be a prude. When she asked what that meant, he pulled her to his lap and masturbated. Q. What was her reaction? A. She felt paralyzed. She froze. Q. After this incident, did encounters with Epstein begin to include sexual contact? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Amnap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000413 EFTA00008941 06/29/20 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 5 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. Over time, did the sexual abuse escalate? A. It did. Q. From what she's described to you, did the abuse include Epstein digitally penetrating A. Yes. Q. Did it include Epstein using a vibrator on her? A. Yes. Q. Did she describe to you that there were times when Epstein would direct to massage him while he masturbated? A. Yes. Q. Did explain to you what her memories are like of the abuse? A. Yes. Q. What did she say about that? A. She said that it happened so often that it all kinds -- it all runs together for her. That it's hard to separate out some of the different instances of abuse. Q. You were describing how explained to you that the abuse began. Did that occur based on what told you within the first year that she met Epstein and Maxwell? A. Yes. Q. Now, did also describe to you that once this FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6 A:map. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000414 EFTA00008942 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 24 abuse started, Epstein would also bring her into his massage room in the house? A. Yes. Q. And were there times where he did this where there are other women present including Maxwell? A. Yes. Q. Was abused during those episodes? A. Yes, she was. Q. During these group encounters what were a: “ the adult women wearing? A. They were usually just in their underwear. Q. Once they were all in the massage room, how would these episodes generally start? A. They would generally start with one of the girls massaging Epstein. was usually massaging his feet. Maxwell was kind of teasing the girls; she'd grab the girls' breasts and she would direct the girls on what to do. Q. When these episodes would start, in general was Epstein generally lying face down on the massage table? A. Yes. Q. What_ would happen as things progressed generally speaking trom what she described to you? A. When Epstein would decide he was kind of done with the regular massage, he would turn over to his back and he'd grab whichever girl he wanted to either touch him or FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Salt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDN Y_00000415 EFTA00008943 06/29/20 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 whatever girl he wanted to touch. Q. Did these episodes include sex acts that over time in various instances included Epstein masturbating, Epstein receiving oral sex, and Epstein engaging in intercourse? A. Yes. Q. You were describing for a moment what told you about Maxwell's role during these group encounters. Would Maxwell sometimes guide the women and give instructions about what to do? A. Yes, she would. Q. What would typically do during these episodes? A. She would try to not look at Maxwell because she gave off that sister vibe so it felt weird for her. She would try to be invisible in that room so they would ignore her as much as possible. Q. In the beginning when was approximately 14 or 15, would she generally begin by just massaging Epstein's feet? A. Yes. Q. Is that something she was told to do? A. Yes. Q. Did she you mentioned that she tried to be invisible. Was -- I believe that was your testimony? A. Yes. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 41B-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000416 EFTA00008944 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 26 Q. And over time -- has she described to you that over time she believes she became more involved in the sexual activity which varied in each encounter? A. Yes. Q• Were there times -- let me rephrase that. How did -- you touched on this for a moment, but just to be clear, how did describe Maxwell's attitude during these incidents? A. It was very casual. She acted like this was normal. She gave off that vibe to her and -- yeah. Q. Did that make her feel more comfortable with what was happening? A. It did. Q. Was sometimes fully nude during these episodes? A. Yes. Q. And during these episodes, did the abuse include Epstein touching s breast? A. Yes. Q. Did it include directing to touch Epstein's genitals? A. Yes. Q. Beginning when was approximately 14, does she begin to travel with Epstein and Maxwell to New York City on occasion? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. d Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDN Y_00000417 EFTA00008945 06/29/20 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes, she did. Q. Was that to the property you testified about earlier? The townhouse on the Upper East Side? A. Yes. Q. When traveled to New York City, did she stay at Epstein's townhouse in New York City? A. Yes, she did. Q. Did she recall that Maxwell and Epstein took her shopping on one of her early trips to New York City? A. Yes. Q. Did she remember them buying her anything? A. She recalled them buying her white cotton underwear. Her description was that they were, like, little girls underwear. Q. From ages 14 to 17, did Epstein ask to periodically fly to New York for weekends at that townhouse in New York? A. T'm sorry, say it again? Q. You testified that she began traveling to New York City aL age 14. Did she then periodically travel to New York City in a similar manner trom ages 14 to 17? A. Yes. Q. Were there times when she traveled on those trips when she flew on Epstein's private jet? A. Yes. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 salt. b Annap. 410-9/4-0947 GM_Gl_SDNY_000004I8 EFTA00008946 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 York? 06/29/20 28 O. Did she also sometimes fly commercially? A. Yes, she did. Q. Was Maxwell sometimes present on the trips to New A. Yes. Q. You testified earlier that was sexually abused in Palm Beach. Did she describe to you that she was also sexually abused on these trips to New York? A. Yes, she did. Q. Did Maxwell encourage to go on these trips? A. Yes. Q. What does -- what did tell you about her memory of how these trips were arranged? A. She recalled that Maxwell was usually the one that would schedule her flights. If she was flying commercially, she would schedule the flights, sometimes calling her mother to schedule. Q. Was that her general impression of how they were arranged? A. Yes. Q. In addition to the trips to New York City that you just described, did also remember traveling at least once to Epstein's ranch in New Mexico? A. Yes, she did. Q• Did she remember whether or not she was sexually FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. s Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000419 EFTA00008947 06/29/20 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 abused in New Mexico? A. She couldn't recall. She couldn't remember. Q. In general, how would get to the airport in Florida when she would fly on Epstein's jet? What did she describe to you? A. Usually a driver one of Epstein's drivers would pick her up from her house and take her to the airport. Q. Now, you testified earlier that you reviewed flight records for Epstein's private jet. is that correct? A. Yes. Q. And have you reviewed records from the 1990's to see if that there -- whether there's a person named listed on the records? A. Yes. Q• Turning to the next slide. Is this an excerpt from those records? A. Yes, it is. Q. And does the red arrow point to -- just one moment. Does the red arrow point to a November 11th, 1996 flight? A. Yes, it does. Q. And is this a -- does this flight log reflect that it was a flight from Palm Beach, Florida to Teterboro, New Jersey? A. Yes. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting TranscriptIon D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GNI_Gl_SDNY_00000420 EFTA00008948 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 21 24 25 06/29/20 30 Q. Is there a private airfield in Teterboro, New Jersey? A. Yes, there is. Q. What's it called? A. Teterboro Airport. O. Are the passengers listed on this entry J.E.? A. Yes. Q. Are the -- do the entries also include pluL friend, Jeff Schantz (ph.), family, (ph.) child, (ph.), and A. Yes. Q. Was -- based on your awareness of date of birth and the date of this flight, was 16 on the date of this flight? A. Yes, she was. Q. Turning to the next slide. You testified earlier about Teterboro Airport. What are we looking at on this slide? A. This is directions from Teterboro Airport to Epstein's residence here in Manhattan. Q. So based on your review of this map, if someone were to fly into Teterboro Airport and travel to New York City, would they -- would the most natural root be to travel from Teterboro Airport and crossing into New York through Manhattan? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Halt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNI_GLSDNYJXX)0042 I EFTA00008949 06/29/20 31 1 2 3 4 5 E 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 2C 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. Turning to the next slide. Is this also an excerpt from the flight records that you've reviewed? A. Yes, it is. Q. And does this show a May 9, 1997 flight from Teterboro, New Jersey to Santa Fe, New Mexico? A. Yes, it does. Q. G.M., And are the passengers listed on this log J.E., A. Yes. Q. Based on your knowledge of birthdate and the date of this flight, would have been 16 on the date of this flight? A. Yes, she would've been. Q. Turning to the next slide. Is this also an excerpt from the flight records? A. Yes. And does the red arrow point to a flight entry on 19 Q. May 3rd, 1998? A. Yes, it does. Q. Based on the airport codes, does this reflect that there is a flight on that date from Palm Beach, Florida to Teterboro, New Jersey? A. Yes. Q. And are the passengers listed on this log J.E., FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDN Y_00000422 EFTA00008950 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 32 G.M., E.T., , Glen (ph.), III, (ph.), (ph.), (ph.), (ph.)? A. Yes. Q. Based on your knowledge of birthdate and the date of this flight, would have been 17 on this date? A. Yes. Q. Am I correct that you testified earlier that in addition to sometimes flying on Epstein's private jet, she also traveled on commercial airlines, is that correct? A. Yes, it is. Q. Based on your review of these flight logs, does every flight entry list the name of every single passenger, or are there times when a passenger is noted female? A. There's time where a passenger is just noted female. Q. I'm going to talk to you about two examples of that. Turning ahead two slides. Looking at slide 18, does this reflect a January 3rd, 1995 flight where the flight log says J.E., two females? A. Yes, it does. Q. And do the two entries below also just list female next to the initials J.E.? A. Yes, they do. Q. Turning to the next slide, slide 19. Is this FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription U.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_000004.23 EFTA00008951 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1/ 16 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 33 another example of an entry like that? Focusing on the entry on February 12th, 1995? A. Yes. Q. Does that entry also say female? A. Yes, it does. Q. Now, you testified that sometimes flew on commercial airlines and that arrangements for her travel were made for her to fly commercially for these trips. Is that right? A. Yes. Q. Have you been able to obtain commercial flight records? A. We tried. We were not able to obtain those records. Q. Why is that? A. Airlines do not keep records past a certain year. Q. Does recall group sexualized massages involving Epstein and Maxwell in both the New York and Florida residences during the time period we've been talking about? A. Yes. Q. You testified earlier about the time that Epstein and Maxwell would spend together and the activities that they were involved in. During this time period, did have occasions to talk with Maxwell? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000424 EFTA00008952 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 34 A. She -- I'm sorry, can you ask the question again? Q. During the -- beginning when she was 14 when she began spending time with Epstein and Maxwell and through the years, did often have conversations with Maxwell about her life? A. Yes. Q. Did they talk about that often? A. They did. Q. Did Maxwell ask about her family, her classes, and other aspects of her life? A. Yes, she did. Q. You testified earlier that just before she turned 18, moved to New York City. Is that right? A. Yes. Q. Did she go to school there in New York City for her senior year? A. Yes, she did. Q. What school did she go to? A. She went to Q. What is A. They cater to individuals who want to pursue careers in the arts. 0-Have you reviewed records from A. Yes. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6. Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDN Y_00000425 EFTA00008953 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 35 Q. If you could turn to slide 17. Can you please explain for the grand jury what we're looking at here? A. This is an excerpt from application to III On it is listed who is financially responsible for her, and that is Jeffrey Epstein. Q. From what told you, did Maxwell encourage to accept Epstein's financial help? A. Yes. Q. When moved to New York City who was she living with? A. She lived with her mother and brother in apartment. Q. Did Epstein help pay for her rent? A. He did. Q. During that year, her senior year of high school when she was in New York City, did remain in contact with Epstein? A. Yes. Q. What was the nature of their contact like during this time period? A. During this time he was still sexually abusing her. Q. Did that continue to occur in his townhouse in Manhattan that year? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_000004.26 EFTA00008954 06/29/20 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes, it did. Q. What happened at the end of her senior year of high school? A. She moved to Los Angeles to pursue a career in acting. Q. Did she get a job as an actress when she was 18? A. She did. Q. Has lived in Los Angeles and worked as an actress on television ever since then? A. Yes. Q. After she moved to Los Angeles did she continue being in touch with Epstein? A. For a short period of time. Q• Did she ultimately break contact with him? A. Yes, she did. Q. Is currently pursuing a civil lawsuit against Maxwell and Epstein's estate? A. Yes. Q. Have you talked with about whether when she was a teenage gill when all of this was happening whether she told anyone that she was being sexually abused? A. Yes, she said she didn't tell anyone. She felt like she couldn't. She -- the -- nothing was talked about outside of that room, so it made it so that she couldn't talk about it. And then she also -- her mother is Middle FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. S Annap. 410-974-094/ GM_GLSDNY_00000427 EFTA00008955 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 lb 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 37 Eastern, and her mother raised her that women are supposed to do what they're told even if someone is beating you. And when she was 13 and her father passed, she was she went to a guidance counselor at school to talk about it, and her mother found out about it and smacked her. So she felt like she couldn't talk to anyone about it. Q. Did 's mother encourage her to accept Epstein's financial assistance? A. Yes, she did. Q. Have you become aware that in 2005, police officers from the Palm Beach Police Department executed a search warrant at Epstein's house at the El Brill() Way address in Palm Beach? A. Yes. Q. Have you reviewed some of the materials seized during the search? A. Yes. Q. Did they find massage tables ana sex toys? A. Yes, they did. Q. Did they find any photographs of A. Yes. Q. Was one of the photographs signed by A. Yes, it was. Q. Did it say FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000428 EFTA00008956 06/29/20 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. During your interviews with did tell you how she felt about Epstein and Maxwell in the '90's when she was a young girl? A. She did. She expressed that she felt like they loved her, she felt like they were her family. That they supported her and that she felt she was made to feel like that she needed to be grateful to them. Q. Okay. Did she tell you that she felt like they were trying to help her? A. Yes. Q. Have you talked with about how she feels about this now? A. Yes. Q. What was demeanor like when she described to you what Epstein and Maxwell had done to her? A. She was upset. She recognized that now, it's affected her life to a great degree. She's struggled in relationships with opening up to people and trusting people, both personal and professional relationships. Q. Did she tell you that she struggled to tell anycne what had happened to her for most of her adulthood? A. Yes. Q. When was the first time that you interviewed FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000429 EFTA00008957 06/29/20 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Last fall. Q• Was that the first time she'd ever reported this to law enforcement? A. Yes, it was. Q. Now, you testified earlier about your interviews with who worked at Epstein's Palm Beach house. Did he remember a girl named coming to the house during that time? A. Yes, he did. Q. Did he recall , Maxwell, and Epstein being in the Palm Beach house together? A. Yes. Q. What was his understanding of why was there? A. He thought that Epstein was helping her, that's what Epstein had told him, and had told him that Epstein was helping her. Q. Did he ever observe Epstein interacting with physically? A. Yes. Q. What did he see? A. He saw Epstein kiss cheek and pat her on the bottom. Q. Did he have any knowledge about what was happening with Epstein or Maxwell when he wasn't present? A. He didn't. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. .6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000430 EFTA00008958 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 40 Q. Did ever recall picking up from her house? A. Yes. Q. And when he would pick her up from her house, would he then bring her back to the Palm Beach house? A. Yes. Q. Did he remember who in general would tell him to pick up from her house? A. Maxwell would be the one to tell him to pick her up. Q. Did he recall ever driving to the movies? A. Yes. Q. What did he tell you about that? A. That it would usually be Epstein, Maxwell, and They'd go to the movies and it would usually be late at night. Q. Did he tell you about what his memory was about how old was? A. He said she was young and that he knew that because he had picked her up from school and that he knew she was too young to drive. Q. Switching gears. I want to talk to you about a different aspect of your interviews with . Based on what he told you about his job duties, were there ever times when he would have to clean Epstein's massage room? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GKLGLSDNY_0000043I EFTA00008959 06/29/20 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. What did he tell you about that? A. He said that he found sex toys in the massage room and he had to wash them afterwards. Q. Aside from those experiences, was he aware of there being sex toys in the house? A. Yes. There was a basket of sex toys that were kept in Maxwell's closet. Q. Did stop working for Epstein in approximately 2002? A. Yes. Q. Was he told that he was being replaced? A. Yes. Q. And was he generally aware that the person who replaced him was much younger? A. Yes. Q. Did tell you that a few months after he left working fcr Epstein he became suicidal because of Issues in his marriage? A. Yes. Q. Did he tell you that he went to Epstein's house and tried to take Epstein's gun? A. Yes, he did. Q. Did he tell you he tcok several thousand dollars? A. Yes. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Cvutt Repertisty isalsat-Lipliva D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GNI_GLSDN Y_00000432 EFTA00008960 06/29/20 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it? Q. Did Epstein discover this and confront him about A. Yes, he did. Q. Did admit to Epstein and the police what he'd done? A. Yes. Q. Did Epstein also tell the police his gun was missing? A. Yes. Q. Were there any charges filed? A. No. Q. Was he ever arrested? A. I don't believe so. Q. And did Epstein pursue any charges about this incident? A. No, he didn't pursue anything. Q. Have you interviewed one of Epstein's former pilots? A. Yes. Q. Is that pilot named A. Yes. Q. Was he one of the pilots for Epstein's private jet in the 1990's? A. Yes. Q. Did he remember traveling on the je FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000433 EFTA00008961 1 2 4 5 6 8 9 IC 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 19 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 06/29/20 43 in the 90's? A. He remembered her traveling, but he didn't remember specifics. Q. So just to be clear, is your testimony that he didn't remember the specific dates of the flights, but he remembered her traveling on the jet during the 1990's? A. Yes. Q. And did he remember specifically as a person who traveled? A. Yes. Q. Did you discuss with him the flight records that we talked about earlier that lists a person named as a passenger? A. Yes. Q. Did he have a specific memory of those exact flights? A. No. Q. But was he aware of any other flying on the jet besides in the 1990's? A. No, no other at that time. Q. Earlier when we were looking at Interlochen attendance records for the summer of 1994, you noted that • right? was one of the names on that record. Is that A. Yes. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000434 EFTA00008962 06/29/20 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Is that A. Yes. Q. Have you interviewed III A. Yes, I have. Q. Did he tell you that he remembered talking that summer at camp about having met Jeffrey Epstein? A. Yes. Q. Did he tell you that he remembered going over to Epstein's house in Palm Beach when they were in high school? A. Yes. Q. Did he remember that would often talk about spending time with Maxwell and Epstein during this time? A. Yes. Q. Did he remember telling him when they were in high school about at least one trip to New York City that she took with Epstein? A. Yes. Q. Did he remember describing Epstein's townhouse in Manhattan? A. Yes. Q. And does he remember talking often about Ghislaine Maxw